Interviewer: {NS} when did they start uh uh paving the roads 025: well this road in here wasn't this here road that went this uh main highway was paved I mean back in my younger days and uh I guess they they built this main road through here in nineteen and thirty Interviewer: {NS} 025: and uh it wasn't a paved road it was just a gravel road you know and a gravel road here you've got all {X} Interviewer: yeah 025: and this road here was blacktopped in about nineteen hundred and sixty or #1 sixty # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: sixties when they built this this main road from then the other road now there's two or three sections of this road the other one was built up yonder I guess it's been a long back in the 40's or something before it was blacktopped 'til it comes over and then cut across but this main road here they they blacktopped a little a few years before that they got a little money and then blacktopped about a mile up here but when they built this road that's called a secondary road they built this road from up here to the forks of the road down yonder to where the red state see Interviewer: {NW} 025: and that was I guess it was in the early sixties I'd say sixty to sixty-two somewhere when it was blacktopped well then this cold creek road a few years ago for election scheme they blacktopped it just for election scheme to get a certain man elected you know give him credit Interviewer: uh huh 025: for having the road blacktopped Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh I've traveled that road down through there when two cars couldn't pass without your backed up maybe as far as from here up the road there'd be a little switchbacks they called 'em you know that two cars could pass I know one day I took somebody down there in an old T model Ford and I come back and they got right down here where you go into the into the woods around there and met a fella down there with two fellas with a big truckload of cattle and one of the fellas had land in here just gonna haul him out well there we was and every one of us couldn't back Interviewer: {NW} 025: he couldn't back up him cattle and I could not I was too far away from a place the back Interviewer: uh huh 025: and they had me to drive that T model Ford I don't know there silly and we got by with it and they had me to drive that T model Ford just as high as I could drive and pull into the bank and they held it Interviewer: uh huh 025: well they two of them well them two held it 'til I got out Interviewer: #1 uh huh # 025: #2 then # when I got out me and the other one held it Interviewer: uh huh 025: 'til this fella drove his big truckload of cattle on by Interviewer: uh huh 025: and then he come back and uh he helped hold it 'til I got in and he got her down Interviewer: #1 I see # 025: #2 now that's # that's facts that's silly but it it we done it Interviewer: sure you got all of you got your work 025: we done it Interviewer: good work you well it worked 025: little old T model Ford you know didn't take her too much wrong Interviewer: sure 025: there wasn't more I don't guess than I don't know five feet wide or something like that Interviewer: what would you call uh that like this uh the road or this this thing that comes right after your house here 025: eh we just call that a lane or something or other something like that Interviewer: okay #1 and the place in town # 025: #2 driveway # #1 or whatever # Interviewer: #2 sorry # 025: it'd be a driveway or a lane at least we used to call things like that a lane but now you'd call it a driveway and that's all that can be it just comes out here to the house and that's it people get mistaken you know there's a real turn just go straight across and goes up there up that hill about a mile Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 people would get # confused and come out here and turn around when they find out they can't get no further than Interviewer: #1 that's true # 025: #2 than the house # they'll turn around and go back never say a word or some of 'em would Interviewer: they've uh the things that you want in town you can they uh the next to the street and walk on the 025: the sidewalks Interviewer: yeah uh have you ever seen in town those places where there's grass between the sidewalk and the street the little 025: between the what? Interviewer: well between the here if the sidewalk is here and then and then there's maybe oh three or four feet of grass and then the before you get to the street 025: no I wouldn't say nothing in Sevier county Interviewer: okay uh 025: #1 you know I've never # Interviewer: #2 if you ever # 025: seen it Knoxville nor Maryville Interviewer: okay uh now when you drink coffee with uh and you and you put nothing in it what do you call that 025: call it black coffee Interviewer: uh huh do you ever use the expression barefooted? 025: yeah Interviewer: how what how does that 025: well that's just coffee and a little sugar no cream no nothing in it course the which a lot of people now I drink cream and sugar and have all of my life but I've had an uncle that he'd drink her just as black as they made it Interviewer: {NW} 025: and that's barefooted with nothing in it Interviewer: {NW} 025: pure black coffee Interviewer: uh huh okay uh if 025: and he'd get up on that coffee I don't know I might be telling you things Interviewer: no I 025: be telling you things that you didn't want to know Interviewer: go ahead 025: he's talking bout this coffee people used to fox hunt on a lot they'd take their coffee and take 'em an old can bucket and they'd go in these mountains you know and uh fox hunt and lay out up here all night and build 'em up far and let their dogs run foxes said there's an old man {X} out here bout two or three times and I guess it was the truth they said they had to boil that coffee and said this old man can drink it hotter than anybody and they said he took it right off the fire I don't believe it but they told and said that he took a big sip of it and said it got to burn him and said he squirted it out on his hound and said it burnt the hair off Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 his hound # Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 I'll never believe that # Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 some of 'em # can drink it hotter than others you know Interviewer: {NW} and that was that's really dramatic uh you know what would you call a dog that you couldn't that that uh really you couldn't couldn't wasn't much good for hunting or anything just uh 025: oh I don't know what you'd {X} call 'em it's cause like I told you yesterday about that boy dog that ain't worth a thing in the world only just than to eat Interviewer: uh huh 025: I don't know what you'd call 'em just a no count dog I reckon Interviewer: okay and then when they uh uh how long would they have a blacksmith here in uh in the valley 025: #1 oh # Interviewer: #2 was there a # 025: the last blacksmith the good blacksmith died I guess 5 6 years ago there ain't no blacksmith anymore I noticed the other day in the county people {X} shoe horses just cause these fellas were riding these horses in them but they have to be shod there ain't enough horses in {X} anymore but the last blacksmith in was like sharpening your tools for you and things you know Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 fella # here at the forks of the road he was an awfully good blacksmith I don't know he's been dead I guess 4 5 years and he's got a boy up here that could do a little blacksmithing but not much Interviewer: {NW} 025: them days when I was a boy everybody had a shop and bell and a certain handle and hammers and things they'd sharpen their plows and their mattocks and their tools you know Interviewer: did you ever do that yourself 025: I've done a little of it never was good at it Interviewer: tell me about it how with the with the uh shoeing how how that's done 025: well in the first place your shoes come your shoes then you took 'em and you turned 'em and you had to sometimes close 'em and sometimes those little horses feet was just like my and your feet they ain't all alike Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh they had to get 'em red hot and they had the rambler and their hammer and their tongs and they'd turn them and put them corks on them then where the nails went on them hold all had to be opened up they wasn't big enough for nails and then they'd take a punch and open them nails up then when they got that done well they'd take the horses foot and then take a drawing knife that was a thing with two handles I've got one out there and a rasp and they'd cut that foot down and then they'd rasp it and smooth it and get it level and then they'd put them shoes on and each side had 4 nails and they drove that in the hoof now they would a blacksmith had to know how to do it or he'd get into the quick you know it'd be like your fingernail Interviewer: yeah 025: see your fingernail I have that black part of my fingernail and cut it off Interviewer: #1 uh huh # 025: #2 you'd # get up above that you couldn't well they had to stay within ramp a blacksmith or man knowed horses know where that was there's ring around her you couldn't move back that ring sometimes they'd quick 'em and they'd have to take the shoe off Interviewer: uh huh 025: and they'd put them four nails in there and they'd drive them in there and them nails would come out up here they had the nails you know the nails just made in a way that they would come out Interviewer: {NW} 025: then they took the hammer and they took them off and then took the clippers and cut 'em off and then they'd put a piece of iron up there and then they'd clinch 'em Interviewer: uh huh 025: and then for horse who had a good tough foot they'd stay on there sometimes 'til it wore out but sometimes the foot'd grow out and they'd have to put 'em back a second time Interviewer: now you said you kept you've been calling them the feet but they're really 025: they're just hooves a horse would just Interviewer: yeah 025: get the hooves you know Interviewer: you ever played a game pitching those 025: yeah you take them old shoes or you take new ones now that there's a boy here that course you don't know much about horseshoes I don't guess but he had uh showed me some he used to work for hardware he live over here in Maryville now but we raised him here and he had he'd went and bought four of 'em he stayed we'd worked down there the hardware and they was selling out and they sold him them well an ordinary horse with a good foot would would use about a number 4 horseshoe well that boy's got some down there that they're number 8's biggest ones they used them now they had horseshoes up here on the little river that had feet that big and them 8's is as big as that Interviewer: uh huh 025: #1 now about old horseshoe # Interviewer: #2 {NW} uh huh # 025: I have one that I could show you if you wanna seen it Interviewer: like those horses that they uh 025: them northern horses have bigger feet if they was western horse they'd get them big ship 'em here a lot of 'em and they love them mountains up there Interviewer: Clydesdale's have great big feet 025: huh? Interviewer: Clydesdale's the kind that Bud- 025: #1 well these here they're big # Interviewer: #2 -weiser, see they pull beer trucks, the beer, beer wagon # 025: western horse and they shipped horses Interviewer: I guess that we're about uh about cattle and so forth and when a when a cow is about to give birth you'd say say the cow is going to 025: well we'd just say she's gonna have a calf that's just about it Interviewer: would you ever use drop a calf or come fresh? 025: well that's people talk about their cows you know and when a cow goes and cry you know before she has her calf and then the women'd talk about how our cows are gonna be fresh in a few days Interviewer: {NW} 025: well then when they're fresh and they'd let 'em go for about 2 weeks and then they'd go saving their milk again Interviewer: I see um 025: or they'd say a cow she's gonna drop a calf any day you know Interviewer: uh huh 025: something like that that that's just a old saying through here Interviewer: uh how did you you um call your cows in from the pasture 025: sook sook sook Interviewer: and how about to make 'em stand still at milking time 025: well there's different ways to do that some of 'em would stand still Interviewer: uh huh 025: you'd have to get 'em in the barn or somewhere or another and Interviewer: might you ever say anything 025: #1 I have # Interviewer: #2 to 'em # 025: had 'em so bad you'd have to maybe tie 'em up you gotta learn a cow to milk some's gentle and some ain't never gentle Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: and uh my wife's got a little old heifer here she got the calf young and she had her calf young and it come had to tuck away from her dad well she's got gentle and it was right out there and one of them wants to that's thing's got milk said I'm gonna out there and she went out there and just milked her right off the path first p- first time she's ever got the milk Interviewer: is that right 025: and you've got to learn 'em Interviewer: what do you say might you say to a cow to make her stand still when you're gonna milk her 025: make her feed her give her some bran Interviewer: do you ever say anything to her 025: well well pet 'em {X} was here you know I never did have patience enough to fool with one to get her gentle my wife'd always break 'em into milking her or something else Interviewer: #1 ever say ever say {X} uh huh # 025: #2 i have but there wasn't {X} bout it # say so or something like that you know and Interviewer: and 025: pat 'em and be good to 'em you can't you couldn't do much with a cow by whooping her Interviewer: {NW} 025: some people didn't have no more judgment than you know and they'd jump on 'em and kick 'em and beat 'em Interviewer: sure 025: that don't help that just makes 'em worse you've got to be good to a cow Interviewer: do you call calves differently 025: huh Interviewer: do you call a calf in a different way from the pasture 025: a calf Interviewer: or yeah 025: no they're just a calf 'til they get up so big and then they're called yearlings when they get a year old or a calf 'til they're a year old or then they're yearlings Interviewer: how about a call to horses to get 'em in from the pasture 025: well you just culp Interviewer: {NW} 025: say culp culp Interviewer: and a call to horses or mules to make 'em turn left and right 025: that was yee and haw Interviewer: did you ever do you ever use that with um with uh could you do that with with you could do that with both mules and and horses 025: you could take 'em my granddad had to do it with mares when I was a boy and you could plow them old mares without anybody Interviewer: {NW} 025: get a mare in that garden and you know and have how many rows and he could plow or a corn fields and there's one of 'em old mares he could plow without any bridle she'd just know gee and haw just as good as right and left Interviewer: {NW} 025: right was gee and left was haw Interviewer: how about to get a horse started when it's standing still 025: get up Interviewer: and to make a horse uh after it's going you want to keep her going 025: stop him Interviewer: yeah 025: you wanna stop him you say whoa Interviewer: okay and then how about if you wanted to get the horse to uh to uh back into a buggy 025: when you're done that you be you better be your lines Interviewer: uh huh 025: you didn't say much you just pull back on your lines cut him anyway you haven't bit you see you cut him anyway you wanted to go you just done a horse and a buggy just like you do a car Interviewer: uh huh or if a horse was uh uh did you ever did you ever back a horse up in one of these uh {NW} the uh the only time you back a horse up is when you're when you're 025: when you wanna turn around or something Interviewer: yeah 025: well you don't need to back it when you're going straight Interviewer: uh huh and you only say 025: you've got to turn you know now you take out here where you turn your car you want to turn a wagon just do it just like you do your car Interviewer: and you just do that by pulling the lines 025: pulling the lines Interviewer: now what do you say to pigs how'd you call call the hogs at feeding time 025: I only just {NW} I don't know just call say how did you do that I know the cows was sook I don't know you just call 'em then learn some different thing I don't know what the proper thing'd be Interviewer: #1 well it's it's # 025: #2 to call the hog # Interviewer: either sooey or 025: sooey well sooey that'd be to scare 'em sooey is to scare 'em away Interviewer: I see how about calls to sheep 025: well I don't know if there's any particular way I would wanna do that Interviewer: do you know if they ever said coo sheepie have you ever heard that 025: #1 well no # Interviewer: #2 in the valley # 025: you can just call a sheep most anyway you wanted to Interviewer: how about calls to chickens 025: well that was just the same way I don't know what you would just'd say to chickens chick chick chick Interviewer: okay 025: something like that maybe maybe come you could learn of course you could learn chicken or anything has to walk Interviewer: when you're getting uh getting a horse ready to to plow you have to do what do you have to do to it do you have to put put on the 025: yeah you've got to put his first thing you do is put the bridle on it and the next thing you do is put the collar on it and the next thing you do you put your harness on it Interviewer: {NW} 025: and then you hook him to whatever you're going to pull and you say get up and he goes Interviewer: okay 025: when you want him to stop you say whoa sometimes they listen at you and sometimes they won't Interviewer: uh huh now when you're uh when you're riding a saddle horse do you call those lines too or do you call them something else 025: that's a bridle a bridle with reins on it Interviewer: alright and the things you put your feet in 025: that's the stirrups Interviewer: and when you're plowing with uh two horses what do you call the horse on the left the one that walks in the furl 025: I know the one on the left you call him on the high side or in the ferry side Interviewer: {NM} 025: people plowed then you'd put that left hand horse in the prairie and then the and the left would be ha and they'd talk about I don't know where you'd ever hear it or not people'd till their land in different ways you'd take that piece of garden there {X} my granddad wouldn't pull the land out he'd pull it in Interviewer: {NM} 025: and uh if you wanted to pull the land in you'd start it in the middle Interviewer: {NM} 025: then when you got up yonder turn left and come back and pull that furrow up and then come back but if you wanted to that was a haw land and if you wanted to pull a gee land you'd pull your land out you'd tuck around it and and went plum round the whole field you see Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} yeah # Interviewer: call that the haw horse 025: haw land Interviewer: haw land 025: yeah and they'd had to pull turn to the left Interviewer: uh huh 025: well if you wanted to go round down the fall of the year when we after we'd plant corn or get our corn or sow wheat as a general rule we'd take that and fill it that outside you know Interviewer: {NW} 025: come together in the middle go plum around the field and uh but you had if you didn't well you'd have your land the big whole the big midge in the middle if you didn't bell to change it but on the outside you see you could turn and that last prairie would let the water drain off Interviewer: I see. Did you ever- 025: do that with this garden here and the water'd drain across the road right there there's a little puddle of water there yesterday you know I mean you went out there Interviewer: did you ever call that horse the lead horse 025: yeah Interviewer: did you ever here it called the haul horse #1 or the high horse # 025: #2 well that's # the lead horse you'd call that the lead horse or the haul the horse on the on the left to be the high horse you wouldn't Interviewer: okay 025: call it much but it's it always that'd be your lead horse if you had two horses you'd put the gentleman in the lead Interviewer: uh okay 025: and then he'd take care of the other one Interviewer: I see now then if a horse if if a man is is uh is if if someone's just standing here and he fell this way you'd say he was falling 025: backwards Interviewer: and if he fell this way 025: gone forwards it's called thataways called sideways Interviewer: right okay alright uh and then um uh the uh the what uh when you talk about planting whatever um whatever you uh say corn or something or or let's say wheat say we raised a big 025: crop you've got all about everything now but one thing you've Interviewer: #1 okay well could you # 025: #2 never touched # Interviewer: tell us 025: part with the fireman #1 in the old uh # Interviewer: #2 what's that # 025: there's the seasons and the signs Interviewer: oh okay 025: and the moon #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 now tell me a little about that # you wanna tell me a little about that I tell me a little about that 025: well you never you never got onto it I don't know Interviewer: yeah go ahead 025: you take all it out certain times you know in the moon to Interviewer: uh huh are those related to the months of the year or the days or anything 025: no it just went with the signs do you know anything about the #1 signs # Interviewer: #2 no # 025: well let me show you some Interviewer: well just tell me 025: I can learn you a whole lot and you can learn me some things Interviewer: okay 025: wait a minute but I'll show you about them now that was a great um thing that they {X} Interviewer: uh huh 025: well I just thought about that yesterday you gone over everything but that Interviewer: okay tell me a little bit about this 025: well now here you are your luck well you look here for the sun or the moon shows you where the moon fulls Interviewer: uh huh 025: the moon fulls well it hits it don't shine Interviewer: uh huh 025: when its new it shines Interviewer: {NW} 025: now you'll see here the seasons these one whatever that is there Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh you know the Bible speaks about the signs and the seasons Interviewer: {NW} 025: people a lot of people these here are Aggie country people don't pay no attention to that but the things there that works I've been raised to it and it works Interviewer: tell me about some of that uh the 025: well now for instance if you plant a uh uh some corn in a rich place and plant it on the new of the moon when the sign's in the head or the neck that corn grow up yonder and it'll stay straight up and it'll grow so high that you can't reach it to get it and the st- and the st- the ear will stay straight up won't hardly ever turn down when you plant corn then when the sun is down lower that corn won't grow so high and in the fall of the year when corn gets ripe that ear will turn down so the water won't run in it then when you get ready to gather it uh now that's nature this this this'll turn down the point of the hand of the ear of corn will turn down and you see that shuck and that water that ear of corn will just the same as in the dry it'll stand there all winter and not damage Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh but if you plant it on the new of the moon and the signs in the head or the neck that'll grow so high in rich ground some more you can put it around where it'd been manure you can't reach it Interviewer: what other signs are there that 025: well now you'd taken a people are hauling out their stable manure Interviewer: uh huh 025: you'd haul that out on the new of the moon if you wanted to turn it Interviewer: uh huh 025: but if you didn't aim to turn it under you hauled it on the old of the moon you'd haul that on the old of the moon that manure would go in the ground you put it there on the new of the moon it stayed there all summer it wouldn't go in the ground Interviewer: uh huh 025: and people that could would try to cut their hay on the new of the moon if you cut the hay on the new of the moon it wouldn't lay so tight to the ground Interviewer: uh huh 025: and it would cure quicker and it'd be fluffy I have cut hay on the old of the moon and you and shock it up in shocks before I'd get the bailing hay and it'd be so just like a {X} you couldn't stick a fork in it Interviewer: uh huh 025: We'd hauling down there one time and my uncle was a helping and I said what tomorrow they say I said you can't get a fork in it well he then some words he'd say you know and say oh hell they said you cut it on the on the old of the moon now I said the moon's new tomorrow or the next day he said you cut some next week see the difference when I cut some the next week you know it had just stayed there 'til you can't hardly pack it on the wagon Interviewer: uh huh now were there anything that you that you that uh any other signs other than the new of the moon was was there a was there a 025: well now them signs I they start in the head and go into the feet Interviewer: uh huh 025: and you wanted to plant uh say Irish potatoes if you plant the Irish potatoes on the new of the moon and they'd stay right on top of the ground used to people's chickens would run up and eat 'em up Interviewer: #1 mean is it like # 025: #2 you got # plant Irish taters on the new of the moon and the signs were down in the thighs the legs the feet well they'll just ridge 'em up and they would just stay down there in the ground same way with with a lot of things had a fella told me one time said you dig a post hole and he's telling how to build a fence said build that dig that post hole on that new old of the moon well now people when they laid these old crooked rail fence were they laid them on the new of the moon Interviewer: uh huh 025: because they wouldn't go down Interviewer: did did 025: now that'll work I don't care what people tells you it'll work Interviewer: okay now how about do you do anything is is are any of these good signs like the lines in the thighs and the legs and the arms 025: well there's a sign there to plant a lot of things they's a there's a certain time I don't know when it is there's a certain time I used to know my wife I guess she'd know you plant beans in a certain sign and them beans won't run a stick no they won't run cone they would just lay on the ground Interviewer: uh huh 025: then you plant 'em at another time why they'll just run fences or anything now that that works now that's a we've tried it Interviewer: uh huh 025: you just lay there on the ground them beans will and rot Interviewer: can you think of any other examples of that uh of experiences you've had with the signs at work 025: well I've had all kinds of signs I was raised on 'em Interviewer: #1 sure # 025: #2 I read # and I followed 'em Interviewer: uh huh 025: we used to cover all of our buildings with uh boards well you cover a a building with boards on the new of the moon now that this is evident stuff I I know it to be fact them boards will turn up right in the middle and it won't last long and the water and the wind will blow the water in under them Interviewer: uh huh 025: and you take uh now we've got some old boards and we all just put 'em on the new uh old of the moon you lay 'em on the old of the moon and they'll lay flat they'll never turn up at the edges Interviewer: {NW} 025: they'll stay right there for 40 years good {X} Interviewer: {NW} 025: and I've seen houses where it hadn't been built long but they'd been covered on the new of the moon and then they just them boards just turns up in the middle Interviewer: uh huh 025: well now use to people to fish catch red worms you go out here and you can lay down two planks you can lay one down on the new of the moon and you can lay another down on the old of the moon that plank that you lay down on the old of the moon where the moon is full there you can get red worms um that fish with or you take out the other it'll turn up at both ends and it'll never lay down flat Interviewer: is that right 025: now I that that's that's not hearsay Interviewer: that's interesting 025: but a lot of people'd make fun of you and laugh at you well now when people trim their cattle or castrated them or they would try to do that on the old of the moon because they never did bleed so bad well they'd dehorn them my uncle used to have clippers and he'd go around Gatlinburg and back up in there when people'd have lots of cattle he'd always go on the new of the moon and I've learnt that from experience a cow dehorning a cow or cutting a calf bleed they won't bleed on the old of the moon like they do on the new of the moon and same with pulling your teeth Interviewer: is that right 025: they won't they just won't bleed so bad Interviewer: would a particular uh particular sign or just the new of the moon or was that like something like uh the uh the head or the 025: well well the moon there if you notices it moves the moon changes every other month Interviewer: sure 025: and then there's the quarters and then it Interviewer: yeah it looks like about couple days there's a different uh sign 025: well now the signs'll last probably two or three days or Interviewer: #1 yeah # 025: #2 starts # in the head and goes down into the neck and then into the arms and then on down into the bowels and then into the hip legs thighs and then into the feet Interviewer: anything any other anything else that he's talking about planting anything about harvesting the #1 {X} # 025: #2 no # no people don't pay no too much attention to that Interviewer: {NW} 025: it's just harvesting when they get to can Interviewer: it's mainly planting 025: it's mostly in planting Interviewer: {NW} 025: #1 now # Interviewer: #2 is there any # 025: these agriculture fellas these county agents they just laugh at you Interviewer: {NM} 025: when you talk about uh cutting your cash and things talking about planting uh this fella says we plant when the signs are there says we plant in the ground we don't plant in the signs Interviewer: uh huh but you've done this all your life though 025: been doing it all my life it works Interviewer: {NW} 025: it works if you stayed here long enough I'd show you that it did work Interviewer: {X} 025: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 No I I believe you # I I'd just like to know more about it that's all if you could tell me some other some other examples I 025: well now I don't know I could tell you {X} these things you know I don't think it'd come to me that fast Interviewer: sure 025: but uh that was the way about the hay and the and the corn Interviewer: anything anything special with with any other crops how about some of the the other kinds of vegetables 025: well now whenever we used to we paid no attention just you know sewing oats or wheat and stuff like that but we did in planting corn I know one time when I was a boy my granddaddy lay off his you don't it's hard to explain to you when you don't know much about farming Interviewer: sure 025: and uh they would lay off these rows 4 feet each ways each way and then you could plow your corn that way both ways Interviewer: uh huh 025: and I know one time we planted this corn we planted behind and cover it with a hoe and uh this corn just curled up and uh wouldn't come up out of the ground and we had to go over that whole field and take rake hoes and knock that crop off Interviewer: uh huh 025: and he said that he looked and he had planted it in the sign's in the bowels Interviewer: {NM} 025: he said that is what is the matter with it he said planted it in the signs and the bowels and it wouldn't come up Interviewer: uh huh 025: then I know my grandma would plant a lot of beets and she'd try to plant them beets in the sign's in the heart they'd be redder #1 uh huh # Interviewer: #2 the beans would b- # 025: beets would be redder when they's planted in the sign's in the heart than it was when it was planted somewhere else Interviewer: {NM} 025: now that worked that worked and I'd a woman told me when {X} your onions you had to be awful careful with 'em or they'd all rot we used to raise lots of onions and this woman said don't never gather put your onions up in the sign is in the heart he said we's pull a {X} up and she said neighbors come along he said don't never pull your onions up said them'll all rot said wait 'til the signs is in the heart and she said they took them in and said they all rot said the next week or so said they pull the rest of 'em up and the signs was in the out of the heart and said that never none of 'em rot Interviewer: is that right did they ever do anything with breeding animals 025: no we used to have to breed animals when they come in Interviewer: I see okay and also 025: whole moon new of the moon signs whatever Interviewer: okay and uh 025: #1 they just come in ever so often # Interviewer: #2 yeah yeah but uh # but now there was some there was some example of of of the onions of of of uh putting in those onions that wasn't planting them was it that was uh 025: well that was uh pulling 'em up you know when they got ripe you had to pull 'em up you know and let 'em dry out Interviewer: anything with anything with poultry uh signs related to 025: no I don't know where that ever happened to poultry Interviewer: uh huh 025: I'd heard a old timer say {X} on the new of the moon it'd grow faster than it did on the old but I don't know if that works or not but I do know these other things about the beans and the planting and then the manure and the boards Interviewer: anything with fruit trees um with signs 025: no I course I answer to then try to set these fruit trees my granddad set out all he set a lot of 'em try to set them on the old of the moon they because they would stay deeper in the ground Interviewer: {NW} what kinds of fruit trees did they 025: oh just different kinds he had orchards he owned big boundary of land over yonder Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 he had {X} a # all over the side of that mountain and them days they had mostly Sour Jons and Irelands and things like that and old apple wine saps now then there a lot of them old apples you can't you take for instance Sour Jons everybody knows what a was Sour Jon was even a child Interviewer: {NM} 025: made apple butter and jellies and Sour Jon Interviewer: {NW} what kinds of um uh uh what do you call that uh the center part of an egg 025: the yellow Interviewer: okay do you ever call that anything else 025: I don't know the yellow and then the whites the yolk Interviewer: uh huh the white's the yolk 025: it's the way I've always known Interviewer: okay um and then the uh uh stuff that people use to make bread rise 025: yeast Interviewer: okay and if you put an egg in water for 3 minutes that's uh 025: well I don't know much about cooking I don't know how long it takes egg to boil put a egg whole in water or you can take egg and get what you call a poaching egg you know you have to break it and drop it in the water and that'll cook there I guess in 3 minutes cause the water's hot enough Interviewer: okay now the uh uh uh what different kinds of um uh we're talking the the um the center the uh the center of a cherry that hard thing in the cherry what's that called 025: well that's the seed or maybe call it the pit I believe they called it but it's the seed that's what it really is Interviewer: how bout of a peach 025: well that's a seed Interviewer: and what uh the kind of a peach that separates easily 025: well that's the opened a cling peach a cling peach it won't hardly separate from the seed but them open I call 'em open something or another Interviewer: is it open stone or open 025: #1 open stone # Interviewer: #2 seed # 025: open stone you can just cut the peach in two you know and it don't none of it stick to the seed Interviewer: and the uh the center of an apple is uh 025: core Interviewer: and the nuts that grow underground I don't know if they grow 'em around here but 025: what Interviewer: uh nuts that grow underground P- oh you don't goobers goobers peanuts 025: oh yeah that's peanuts and things like that they used to have a thing here and they called artichokes they grow under the ground Interviewer: is that a nut 025: turnips they don't grow you know part of 'em grow in the ground part of 'em stayed on top you know Interviewer: what other kinds of nuts did uh 025: well I don't know what you mean {X} Interviewer: how bout the kind yeah what were you saying 025: I have a walnut cherry Interviewer: {NW} 025: and I have a big hickory nut grew there along the creek and another thing down in there that grows that uh is um well I mean what do you call them now they're a little nut and uh who got a pecan tree out there we sure don't want pecans there that grow down your way and direction Interviewer: yeah 025: having to stop down there and buy 'em Interviewer: walnuts when walnuts grow that that big green thing on the outside 025: that's the hull but you see when that hull dry up and you take it off and hull 'em Interviewer: yeah and what's underneath there that hard thing 025: that's the kernels then under that shell Interviewer: the part that you have to break with the hammers and 025: #1 yeah # Interviewer: #2 {X} # alright now we talked a little bit about vegetables uh yesterday but would you just kind of give me a a general rundown of the kinds of vegetables that you've grown on your farm just just go ahead 025: well Interviewer: #1 and especially when # 025: #2 we'd start # back in the old onion days the old potato onions and we'd start in the fall of the year when all of us sold a bunch of turnips about this time in the year you know and uh we'd always have a late crop of beans this time in the year takes beans about well whatever time summer come earlier than other years you have to get them beans off find a bean that'll get off in 90 days or something like that before frost Interviewer: {NM} 025: and then we'd plant that whole garden a true half acre and these old potato onions and when they got off well we'd plant something else always plant the beans and beets and peas and whatnot you know whatever you want Interviewer: uh now the kinds of beans that your wife's been canning what uh some of the names of those we were taking about 025: well I laid a whole there's a hundred there's dozens of different kinds of names but them big long pretty green beans that she had out there yesterday they was McKasleys they're a stick bean you grow 'em on a stick you have to stick 'em Interviewer: {NM} 025: well them others there that she had canned was uh was uh a short bean half runners they called 'em they're short not as long as these other and uh then when I was a well I don't see none of them anymore they was awful good beans to peddle on and to sell they called 'em Kentucky Wonders there's a big long bean Interviewer: was that a green bean or 025: yeah the other's a stick bean and the tender bean now there's a tender bean and a hull bean a tough hull a tough hull bean there's a bean that you've got to shell 'em it's like you know them you seen out there yesterday they're a tough hull you can't hardly cook 'em and eat 'em an old tough bean Interviewer: do you call those tender beans green beans 025: #1 tender beans # Interviewer: #2 soft # 025: is the general rule to stick beans they grow on sticks use to people grow them in corn but you don't do that anymore you just graze 'em and you some people sticks 'em on sticks and some fix a string for 'em to run up used to I'd plant 'em through here and have a string that run from here to the garden and then I'd tie a string you could tie a string down here round that bean and then tie that string up here to string that you had on poles through there and it'd grow up that string and they'd hold 'em Interviewer: how bout the large yellowish green beans that you have to shell kind of yellow flat 025: that must be the kind that sh- she had out there the other day they call shelly beans Interviewer: uh huh is that the same thing as uh a butter bean 025: no a butter bean's flat bean Interviewer: uh huh and they um uh these things would grow on vines you put a stick in the ground its a kind of a big red thing 025: that you must mean tomatoes tomatoes you're talking about Interviewer: yeah what about the little ones 025: well they call them tomatoes the little ones now that these thing eh you've got to understand these little tomatoes is volunteers you take a little tomato while seeds are still down and they come up they're them little tomatoes some of 'em make very {X} and some of 'em will get to be as big as hen egg and uh they're called tomatoes but they're volunteer stuff Interviewer: {NW} 025: you can get the seed out of 'em and plant 'em and you can yet have 'em but uh they're but you know people'd throw out seeds and you'd get out somewhere or another and you'd find a vine of them in different place well you were talking the other day about finding the vines somewhere out here Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: and uh they grow them little ones but you can sew them seeds and still get the little ones but ain't nobody wants to fool with 'em little ones you know children likes 'em I like 'em I'd rather have the little tomatoes are the big in and some of 'em are big from a big {X} hen eggs Interviewer: now the kind would you call all of those those those tender beans though are the all of those kind that you that you don't have to shell would you call those all green beans 025: uh I'd go yeah that'd be green beans tender beans they'll all you can take any kind of a bean and they'd grow up and get ripe and shell it Interviewer: A-huh 025: get them shelly beans out of it you'd take these beans you'd buy you know pintos and them they'd use them thrash them out with some i don't know thrashing machine you know and clean 'em Interviewer: you wouldn't call uh a butter bean a shelly bean 025: well I think that's what they're supposed to be to be hulled and eat that way they're a flat bean I don't know how I don't normally ever eat any of 'em dry but I bought 'em we don't never raise 'em but I have bought 'em you know butter beans Interviewer: on the top of a cornstalk that thing you take off is the 025: that thing on the top is a tassel Interviewer: and then on the on the ear itself 025: that's uh that's the silk Interviewer: and when you eat the corn right on the cob what do you you call that 025: roasting ear Interviewer: okay now some these are some things that grow on the ground um they um uh different kinds of things well some of the big orange things grow right on the ground 025: that's cantaloupes I guess you're talking about Interviewer: okay uh now is there anything else like a cantaloupe 025: well nothing like a cantaloupe uh well watermelon here look like that they grow on the ground Interviewer: did you ever raise watermelon 025: we used to we don't anymore Interviewer: #1 what kind # 025: #2 we used to # Interviewer: you remember some of the some of the varieties 025: I don't know the difference of the names they're just watermelon you can get the seed here and yonder the different kinds of watermelon like everything else you know did did you raise any squash yeah Interviewer: what kinds 025: well there's different kinds of squashes there's a round there's squash sorta like a pumpkin only it's got a neck to it you know and then there's these these squashes you know they'd be about inside of some size of that you know on up to a wash pans big as that Interviewer: {NW} 025: I don't know what you call them it's different there's a lot of different kinds of squashes now Interviewer: how bout those big things the kids to Halloween they 025: that's pumpkins they'll grow as big as sometimes they'd grow awful big {X} so big you can't lift her Interviewer: now the the 025: these children want the little ones you know that they can handle for Halloween Interviewer: and these little things that grow on the right they come up after a rain and they look like little umbrellas 025: I don't know what you call them I know what you're talking about but I don't remember what you call them you ain't got no name for a Maggie Interviewer: well mushrooms or mushrooms or 025: yeah that well that's there's a lot of things that will come up after a rain mushrooms are what you mean I guess Interviewer: and then there's also a kind that's poison supposedly that you eat 'em you get sick 025: well them mushrooms I don't know some people cook mushrooms we never did Interviewer: #1 have you ever heard # 025: #2 they'll grow up # you know after a rain they'll come up overnight and then disappear Interviewer: have you ever heard of anything called either frog stools or toadstools 025: yeah Interviewer: which are those 025: well I've heared of toadstools that's something there a little something there that comes up sort of like like you're talking about the mushrooms they're different shapes Interviewer: A-huh 025: but they're not worth anything they just they some of these things you know will spring up after a rain overnight Interviewer: yeah 025: disappear Interviewer: now what do you call that that do you have that that bird around here that makes a hooting sound 025: that's a hoot owl Interviewer: and there's a smaller one that makes a 025: well they's they's uh two or three kinds of them little hooting owls they some of them scream big you know some of 'em smaller and uh them old big 'uns they're the one that get out here and holler and hoo hoo hoo hoo Interviewer: they have one that 025: then they some of 'em that ain't so big they call them there's a night owl they get out and holler at the night you know Interviewer: they're called a screech owl or a 025: screech owl yeah that's them smaller ones them's screech owls Interviewer: now how bout that bird that gets up on the tree and 025: pecks Interviewer: yeah 025: yeah well we call 'em pecker bugs and some call 'em {D: pegger} bugs and some woodchucks and one another they'd get to aggravate us to death here they got them pecking on the chimneys now they'll get they some of them they're redheaded you know and they'll make they're pretty they're just pretty as they can be but they'll aggravate you to death they'll ruin your house Interviewer: are those the ones you call woodchucks or uh 025: no we just call them little red headed pecker bugs now a woodchucks something like 'em there's two or three kinds here theres a big 'un and a little 'un them little 'uns don't give so much trouble them big one does this last spring my wife shot two in one shot Interviewer: is that right 025: four hundred and ten shotgun out there on that walnut three he was sitting up there pecking you know and I reckon she got them right in the opposite she got them both in one shot Interviewer: is that right your wife shot 025: yeah Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 four ten shotgun # Interviewer: #1 you told me yesterday # 025: #2 she through with a shotgun # Interviewer: {NW} you told me that yesterday yeah 025: pretty good with a shotgun Interviewer: {NW} 025: ain't shoot a pistol won't to do no good you shoot she pull the trigger Interviewer: that's terrific um this little animal that has a bad smell 025: that's a pole cat and if you ever smelled one they are a bad smell Interviewer: yeah I sure have. 025: can't stand them Interviewer: yeah uh they yeah what would you call a now this uh little animals that come around and get into your chickens and 025: well them's a there's different things that'll get in your chickens there's uh what you're talking about is a weasel Interviewer: uh huh 025: possums'll eat 'em up and we have to catch possums {X} chicken house they'll eat the chickens up around me but these old weasels they used to you know they're a little old funny looking thing they can get in the little hole Interviewer: do you ever call those a general name possums weasels all these things 025: eh there's just possums and weasels and Interviewer: call 'em varmints 025: varmints course it'd be varmints pests or something Interviewer: would you ever use the word varmints for talking about people 025: well I hear people call varmints you know Interviewer: uh huh {NW} yeah 025: that ain't no name for people that's just somebody saying you know varmint the varmint is some of these things you're talking about we're bothered by a lot of these stuff hell even minks come up this creek and uh the pole cats don't do so much trouble out here but you take on down the highway yonder you can go down there most any morning and you'll find them lame things they come here we can smell 'em but we don't never see 'em they don't come often but you can smell 'em you can smell 'em for a mile Interviewer: now how bout these little animals that run up trees 025: well they I don't know what you mean there unless it's flying squirrel ground squirrel I guess Interviewer: #1 what other what other kinds of # 025: #2 squirrels and gray squirrels # Interviewer: what other kinds of squirrels do they have 025: gray squirrels you know they're digging up peach you know they got big long bushy tails {NS} and uh they get every few years they get numerous one here they got so thick they'd come here and eat walnut trees they wouldn't kill them or come from the house but now little grandson over there he was several years ago he killed over a hundred over there on that hill and there along the creek they go where there's nuts Interviewer: what kind of squirrel is that 025: they're gray squirrels then there's another squirrel gray squirrel that's a little darker color and a little bigger than the gray squirrel they call 'em the fox squirrel Interviewer: uh huh 025: he's a little bigger and browner Interviewer: uh huh 025: instead of a gray it's a brown gray Interviewer: what about that kind that's only you only find it up in the mountains 025: well now these squirrels are just squirrel I reckon you'd find them well I don't know what you're talking Interviewer: you have one you call them boomer 025: yeah yeah well they's a boomer Interviewer: now how what's that how does that differ from an ordinary gray squirrel 025: well now there's some difference I don't know whether is I saw them or not but they're a squirrel something like a squirrel only they're different some way I don't know is ever I've seen one I reckon they grow mostly back on the mountains or something Interviewer: now these things that uh pearls are supposed to come in 025: what Interviewer: pearls you know that oy- 025: oh them's is oysters Interviewer: yeah now {X}