Interviewer:  {X} Your name
252:  My name is Jesse. J-E double S-E. {B}
Interviewer:  And your address?
252:  Cedar Key, Florida.
Interviewer:  And the name of the county?
252:  Levy. L-E-V-Y.
Interviewer:  And where were you born?
252:  I was born in Lukeins.
Interviewer:  Where is that?
252:  That is right across the first bridge coming in.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
252:  On that island over on your left, there was a big saw mill there.
Interviewer:  That's Lukeins?
252:  Lukeins.
Interviewer:  uh
252:  L-U-K-E I-N-S.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Were your parents living on Lukeins at the time?
252:  Well at the time I'm sure they were or I {C: laughing} probably wouldn't have been born hey.
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
252:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
252:  #2 He worked in the #
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
252:  #2 saw # mill.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh #
252:  #2 A s- # The saw mill. And nobody went to a hospital then.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh I I was just wondering if uh Some people I talk to had been born in Gainesville because that's where the hospital #1 was. #
252:  #2 Practically # all your kids are born in Gainesville now.
Interviewer:  #1 uh-huh #
252:  #2 But # nineteen-eighteen... They might they probably had one hospital in Gainsville then.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. {NS}
252:  And
Interviewer:  Where where is Lukeins now?
252:  When you cross this first bridge coming in town where they were doing all the work.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
252:  Right down below that bridge where you make that turn in the road. #1 Not #
Interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
252:  the new road, now. The old road.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
252:  Look right across and you'll see your timber land. All that high timber back there.
Interviewer:  #1 uh-huh #
252:  #2 That's # Lukeins.
Interviewer:  That's a
252:  That was a #1 big #
Interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
252:  saw mill there and it employed about three hundred people.
Interviewer:  Was it on this Is it on an island #1 Near here {X} #
252:  #2 No, it's on the mainland. #
Interviewer:  #1 Oh, I see. #
252:  #2 No # it's strictly it's your first timber on your left when you cross that bridge.
Interviewer:  So it's just a few miles from here?
252:  Well it's uh Actually it's not over a mile.
Interviewer:  uh-huh They used to have a lot of them, saw mill.
252:  Well they had three saw mills here going at one time one was on this island.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  One was at Lukeins and one was at Sumner out here.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  Sumner used to have a population of six or seven-hundred people. Now there- I think there's about fifteen to twenty lives out there.
Interviewer:  um your age?
252:  Have I got to tell you that?
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah. #
252:  #2 {NW} # I'll be fifty-six the twenty-ninth of this month.
Interviewer:  And your occupation?
252:  Right now, sitting on my behind mostly running this trailer park and watching them little birds right there. But I'm ordinarily a commercial fisherman.
Interviewer:  #1 uh-huh #
252:  #2 That's what # I spent most of my life doing.
Interviewer:  When did you go into the trailer park business?
252:  When I married her. Five almost four and a half years ago.
Interviewer:  uh-huh. {NS} And your religion? {NS}
252:  I am a {D: hardtail} Methodist.
Interviewer:  And coming back to your education, did you remember the name of the school you went to?
252:  Well I only went to one that was the Cedar Key School out here. The one I went to burned up in nineteen forty-two.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  Right down to the ground.
Interviewer:  #1 How long was #
252:  #2 And I #
Interviewer:  Go ahead.
252:  I only got through the sixth grade.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh What you were living at um
252:  #1 Lukeins. #
Interviewer:  #2 Lukeins. # And and you went to the Cedars Key school, or had you #1 {X} #
252:  #2 Well # honey I was less than a year old when we moved #1 from there to #
Interviewer:  #2 Oh I see. #
252:  town. But that's where I was born there.
Interviewer:  I see. um Are y- Have you done much traveling or are you very #1 {X} #
252:  #2 No # ma'am. And I don't care to do any. That's for the birds.
Interviewer:  Have you been out of Cedar Key?
252:  Oh, yes. I Seen eight states.
Interviewer:  Which states were those?
252:  Florida, Georgia Alabama Mississippi Louisiana Texas South Carolina North Carolina.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Have you ever lived outside of Cedar Key?
252:  I spent a year in Texas. Ever since I come back I've never had no desire to cross that bridge out there since.
Interviewer:  What about church or clubs. Have you been active.
252:  No. Very inactive.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Um What about your parents? Where were they born and?
252:  My parents
Interviewer:  {NS}
252:  My mother was born right here in Cedar Key.
Interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
252:  #2 And # my father was uh born on a farm in Newberry. Which is approximately forty-five miles from here.
Interviewer:  Which county is that in?
252:  That's in Alachua County.
Interviewer:  uh-huh Do you know about how far they went in school? Would you have any #1 idea? #
252:  #2 Neither # one of 'em went very far.
Interviewer:  uh-huh How What would you guess they they got?
252:  Mm my daddy got I think a fifth grade education. My mother, I only think she only went through the third grade.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  The lived on an island. Up here between here and Suwannee River.
Interviewer:  What island is that?
252:  Dennis Creek. About halfway between here and Suwannee River. {NS}
Interviewer:  What sort of work did did they do?
252:  Well he was a commercial fisherman. She was just strictly a housewife.
Interviewer:  What about your grandparents on your mother's side?
252:  Well, I don't have no knowledge of my grandparents because I never remember seeing the first one. They were dead when I was born.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear anyone say where they were born or? um
252:  Well my father's uh parents was born down on the farm near Newberry.
Interviewer:  Both of 'em?
252:  Yeah. Mother and Daddy. That's strictly a farming district up there.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  And my mother's parents was born right here in Cedar Key. Which they were commercial fisherman.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Both of your mother's #1 parents #
252:  #2 Her # parents. Was commercial fishermen.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Would you know about their education?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  You
252:  That was a long time for I came long.
Interviewer:  uh-huh What what about going further back than your grandparents on your mother's side?
252:  I have no knowledge of them at all.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Your your father's parents were farmers I
252:  Yes.
Interviewer:  Would you know about their education?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  What ab- can you can you trace your your family history back
252:  #1 No. #
Interviewer:  #2 further # on that side?
252:  On either side really.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What about your wife? How old is she?
252:  {NS} #1 {NS} #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  {NW}
Interviewer:  And Methodist too?
252:  No. She's Episcopalian.
Interviewer:  I didn't realize there was a Methodist Church on Cedar Key.
252:  Oh, yeah. It's right there by the standard oil station.
Interviewer:  {X}
252:  You got two s- standard oil stations. Well you know where the Episcopal is?
Interviewer:  uh-huh
252:  You come right down one other block and the Methodist is sitting right there by the #1 standard oil station. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Yeah I heard there were several.
252:  You have uh Church of Christ Holiness Church Baptist Church Episcopal Church and the Methodist Church.
Interviewer:  uh-huh Uh, what about your wife's education?
252:  She's a college graduate.
Interviewer:  Was she born here?
252:  No. She was born in Kentucky.
Interviewer:  Where in Kentucky?
252:  Mm. She'll tell you some little town. I don't know the name of it. She'll tell you in a minute. {NS}
Interviewer:  Has she done much traveling or?
252:  Yeah. All over the damn country. If she hadn't tied down here she'd be in that car going somewhere now.
Interviewer:  {NW}
252:  And I'd fairly hate it.
Interviewer:  What is she very active in church or?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
252:  #2 No # since she married me {NW} We haven't been to church since unless it's to a funeral or wedding.
Interviewer:  uh-huh What about um her parents are they from Kentucky too?
252:  They were from Kentucky yeah. Both of them's dead been dead.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Tell me what Cedar Key's life is? How it's changed and
252:  It has changed very little. There's more building going on now
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Than has been in quite a numbers of years.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  But it's on a off beaten path.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  When they took the railroad out of here. This town started gradually going down.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  It is one of the few places left on the face of the Earth that the population has gradually dwindled
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  instead of increased. But I don' think it's going to be that way very much longer.
Interviewer:  What do you think's gonna happen?
252:  Well there's too much building going on. You can't buy a piece of property here. It's all bought up.
Interviewer:  What kind of buildings?
252:  Uh, well you condominiums.
Interviewer:  They're building those?
252:  You mean you haven't seen 'em? Then you haven't been getting around too much have you? You been doing too a lot of talking not traveling.
Interviewer:  Where are they building the #1 condos? #
252:  #2 There's # one going up right now. Right back of the Jiffy store there on main street. Have you seen the new motel? Two story motel. #1 {D: McKinnies} #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah #
252:  put up down on the beach?
Interviewer:  uh-huh
252:  Well there's a condominium right there across from the state park.
Interviewer:  Must of seen them. I just didn't realize.
252:  Probably did.
Interviewer:  Is are the tourists taking over here much?
252:  No. There are comers and goers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And just like our park we've been very busy out here since Christmas. Now your tourists is heading back north.
Interviewer:  {NS} Mm-hmm.
252:  You wanna pull is that sun in your eyes? You can pull that shade back a little bit and {NS}
Interviewer:  {X}
252:  That helping?
Interviewer:  Yeah that's fine.
252:  Alright don't think I haven't thought of you.
Interviewer:  {X} You don't think the the tourists present any real threat to Cedar #1 Key though? #
252:  #2 Not # really. No, they're a more or less, a source of income.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  They go and they come. Now we've lost a lot of people out of the park this week already that's been with us the whole winter.
Interviewer:  {NS}
252:  #1 {X} #
Interviewer:  #2 Winter # is really the tourist season.
252:  Yeah sure. cuz it's warm down here.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  They come and they stay the whole winter and now it's beginning to thaw up there and they going to heading back home.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  It'll be November, December. They'll be coming back next year.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  If the gas situation and the Lord is willing.
Interviewer:  What about um the tourists buying up land. Has there been much of that?
252:  Yes. This is a place that grows on you.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  You either like it or you disliked it. There doesn't seem to be no in between.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Most of the people that's buying land and wants a place here {NS} is up for retirement or gonna be soon up for retirement.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And it's a quiet place. We don't have no trouble down here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Uh And they want to get away from the rat race.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And once they come here and if they'll spend a couple of days here nine out of every ten wants a piece of property here. Well there's not that much property to go round.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  That's a question I answer here at this park. Fifty times a week.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Do you know where there's a piece of property I can buy? Well I don't.
Interviewer:  It seems like if the tourists come in with more money and they are trying to buy up the land that eventually, that's gonna force the natives out because it will raise the property taxes.
252:  Well that that's already began. It's already started that.
Interviewer:  How do the natives here feel about that?
252:  They don't seem to be too objective about it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Uh {NS} Most of the natives here own their own property.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And they go by a {NS} theme of live and let live.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  No, they're not too objective about it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. This is um When you were growing up were there more blacks living here than there #1 are now? #
252:  #2 Oh # there was around three hundred living here. That's what we call the negro hill up there. Were you was up there talking to these black people?
Interviewer:  That whole section?
252:  That whole section was nothing but blacks.
Interviewer:  How many were there as many as fifty percent blacks when you were?
252:  Mm no. No he- oh hell no.
Interviewer:  How many?
252:  Well you had a population then approximately of about fifteen to sixteen hundred people. And there might have been in the neighborhood of two hundred to three hundred negroes here.
Interviewer:  What about now?
252:  Well, I think there's nine left up there now and most of them are so old they They were raised here.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Most of the people here are fishermen still aren't they?
252:  Uh Practically. Practically yeah. This is strictly a fishing village. You see you have seasons for every thing. Like your scallop season. Your oyster season. Your crabbing season. Your fishing season. And your clamming season. And all of that comes from that water out there.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  And that's what they raised doing all their lives.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm How What's that Tell me some about what the commercial fishermen do. I've never been out on their boats or
252:  Well, most of your commercial fishermen {NS} uh are net fishermen.
Interviewer:  {NW} mm-hmm
252:  They catch these fish with a net. {NS}
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  Now you have some hook and line fishermen. What a lot of people call pool fishermen.
252:  They do that commercially and they take parties. That's were your tourist comes in again.
Interviewer:  That goes out fairly deep?
252:  Well, not necessarily. uh Because it's mostly trout fishing. They go up and down the coast #1 not #
Interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
252:  offshore. {NS} They take parties. Your commercial fishermen. You have 'em that fish at night. Then you have your day crews that fish only in the daytime with nets.
Interviewer:  What does the average person around here? When does he fish? At night or?
252:  Uh. Right now, I would say there's more day fisherman, there are night fishermen.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Does it really make that much difference?
252:  Well, the type of nets that they've come up with now makes the difference.
Interviewer:  What types do they have?
252:  Well it's monofilament.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  And the fish in the daytime can't see it. {NS} Well used to it used to be the other way round when you was using flax nets and cotton nets. They fished mostly at night.
Interviewer:  Now the monofilament uh net fish can't see?
252:  #1 {X} #
Interviewer:  #2 They can't see it so you can catch #
252:  just as many in the daytime now as you can at night.
Interviewer:  uh-huh What different kinds of nets do they use?
252:  Well, it's mostly all gill net.
Interviewer:  {NW} What does that mean?
252:  That means that you fish gill off in it. Now there's such thing as seine nets. And there's such thing as dragnets.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  Which you wouldn't know what the hell I'm talking about, but that's the categories they fall in. Oh. I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you the uh {NW}
Interviewer:  What what's the um What does a gill net look like?
252:  Well it's approximately seven feet deep.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  You have a {NS} It's hung in on a rope with leads on the bottom.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm {NS}
252:  And you it's hung in on the top side with corks.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  The corks float and the leads sink. That means your net is going down to the bottom.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And you don't strike in water deeper than your net or it sinks and all of your fish just goes over it.
Interviewer:  Wait a minute. You don't You don't strike in water
252:  No deeper than your net.
Interviewer:  Which is about
252:  Approximately seven feet.
Interviewer:  I I didn't know it was that shallow the
252:  Well this is shallow country
Interviewer:  #1 uh-huh #
252:  #2 where you # doing this fishing. It's a very shallow country. Now if you wanted to do some deep water fishing, you head off shore.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. {NS} Well then how does the fish get caught in the net? How do you how do you set the net out?
252:  It's just a square mesh.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And when that fish hits it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  His head is sharp. But then he tapers off. He gets caught under his gills. That's why it's called a gill net.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And he can't go ahead, or he can't back out.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What's the uh other kind you mentioned?
252:  Seine net
Interviewer:  uh-huh
252:  is a net that you drag. You pull it in and pull all the fish in in a in a seine which is a long pocket. All of them fish will be in like a bag when you get them in.
Interviewer:  You mean you have? I was watching this fellow mend a net #1 um #
252:  #2 Yeah. #
Interviewer:  There were actually two nets. I mean two. What I would call two nets.
252:  Yeah #1 it's #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  Well actually it's that's what is called a pocket net, or a trammel net.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  He has two He has a net really
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  in the center and a pair s- trammels on both sides of it.
Interviewer:  What is the trammels now?
252:  Trammel is what makes the pocket. This net Is approximately by itself would fish in eight or nine feet of water.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  But the trammels that's holds it together makes it a pocket net now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Well only fish in six so there you four you've got two feet of net there. That when that fish hits it he makes a pocket.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  He's just in a bag out there. He can't back up or he can't go ahead. #1 That's why it's #
Interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
252:  called a pocket net.
Interviewer:  It's looser now so he can carry
252:  #1 That's right. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  That's what we call bunt.
Interviewer:  What do you mean bunt?
252:  Bunt is your net's deeper than your trammel so when that fish hits it he #1 Takes up the #
Interviewer:  #2 Oh, I see. #
252:  slack #1 web. #
Interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
252:  And makes a pocket.
Interviewer:  {NW} So that the trammel looks sort of like fence then?
252:  Yeah. Yeah. #1 Big, yeah, big #
Interviewer:  #2 Just square. #
252:  squares mm.
Interviewer:  uh-huh They just have it on one side or?
252:  No they have it on both #1 sides. Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 On both sides. # How? How would you if? Okay, you're going to go out fishing you how do you throw out the net? How do you #1 you? #
252:  #2 You # run it off with the motor. Or either a long a fourteen foot poling oar. Now at night when you can't see too good what you're doing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  You have a long stick with a blade on it. What we call a pole oar.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And you pole that you shove that skiff boat. Approximately seventeen to eighteen foot skiff boat.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And you shove it by hand.
Interviewer:  #1 The water's shallow enough that you can touch the bottom. #
252:  #2 Oh yes. Oh sure. # You are hardly ever in over six or seven feet of water where you're fishing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Lot of people now in the day time, they use what is known as bird dogs. They run them off of the boat with a motor.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Well Do you have the net out in a circle?
252:  #1 Mostly. Mostly #
Interviewer:  #2 Or in a straight line? #
252:  in a circle yes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  So you have closed those fish in.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Then you just wait a few minutes?
252:  We you beat in the water. Raise hell. #1 Stomp. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  And scare 'em.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Sit down and wait fifteen twenty minutes and What's going to hit has usually already hit that net. Then you take it up by hand.
Interviewer:  What's you mentioned another kind of net that drags.
252:  Drag net.
Interviewer:  That's different now from the?
252:  Well it's a pocket net, but it's hung different. And you drag that. You once you've circled your fish in
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  you get over board and drag it up. To where the circle is no bigger than that. They either hit go under or go over. Because you drug them all up in one little circle.
Interviewer:  uh-huh. How how are you go over?
252:  You get over board.
Interviewer:  What do you mean you get over board?
252:  You just jump over.
Interviewer:  #1 You jump in the water and start? #
252:  #2 Sure. # You have to.
Interviewer:  Then you just start? #1 Pulling that net into a into a circle? #
252:  #2 They pull in that net until you get it # right up to where the circle is no bigger than that.
Interviewer:  No bigger than? Than?
252:  Than.
Interviewer:  Your arms #1 Together? #
252:  #2 That's right. #
Interviewer:  What about um this someone was telling me about some way of having nets so you could have very long nets and something about a pole or {X} Do you ever use very long nets?
252:  The average {C: static} the about as long a net as the average fisherman use will range something like about maybe four hundred yards long.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  That's about that's that's a pretty good net.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Are they ever set out in any other way besides just in circles? Do you ever just #1 just have? #
252:  #2 Yeah oh # yeah that's what you call driving.
Interviewer:  Drive?
252:  Driving.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What's that?
252:  Well at night. You'll make a half moon.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  With this long net.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  And then you will go up approximately two hundred yards in shore and go to beating and drive those fish out on your net. Now in the daytime You do that for trout. Because trout usually don't go around your net but mullet
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  will take and just go right on around your net and keep going. But you do that at night for mullet #1 where they #
Interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
252:  don't see as good.
Interviewer:  hmm
252:  #1 But in #
Interviewer:  #2 How #
252:  the daytime that won't work. You have to circle 'em.
Interviewer:  This water is shallow enough so you can see when you have a lot of fish in an area.
252:  Sure. You know when you've got 'em and when you haven't.
Interviewer:  I mean when when you're deciding where to set the net at you just?
252:  #1 Well you find your #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  fish. This mullet jumps.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  Flips. And lot of times they will be up on an oyster bar. You just round up the whole oyster bar. Get in there and beat 'em off it.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  It's something that would be interesting if you never seen it.
Interviewer:  Yeah I never.
252:  {NW}
Interviewer:  That's when I saw him fixing the net. That's the first time I'd ever looked at a net even.
252:  Is that right?
Interviewer:  Do people around here ever go out in deep water?
252:  Oh yeah they go uh grouper fishing.
Interviewer:  This is all the the lines.
252:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Not you can't use a net at all?
252:  No not out there. You're in thirty forty feet hundred feet of water. That's strictly a hand line fishing.
Interviewer:  uh-huh.
252:  {D: Tell you.} I went grouper fishing my wife and I here about a month and a half ago. #1 About #
Interviewer:  #2 Did you catch anything? #
252:  Yeah, we I caught one grouper, but we caught a lot of little fish. What we call blackfish.
Interviewer:  {NW} What's a blackfish?
252:  One of these good eating fishes. They hardly ever get over two pounds at the biggest.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  But they are a good eating fish.
Interviewer:  They're deep sea
252:  #1 Oh yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 Fish? #
252:  Yeah. Yeah, we were catching them in about seventy feet of water. {NS} That is about thirty-five miles off shore.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Well you don't see land for several hours.
Interviewer:  Do most of the people around here. Do they have a small boat and usually just two or three people go out?
252:  Mostly. {NS} It's hardly ever over two.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  And now it's mostly just one.
Interviewer:  How can they manage with just one?
252:  Well now well he can handle that net.
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
252:  #2 He can # handle it pretty good. Right by his self.
Interviewer:  This is this with a bird dog? #1 {X} #
252:  #2 That's # with the bird dog yeah. Or a skiff boat, either one.
Interviewer:  Why would anyone need two people?
252:  Well, it makes his work easier. One pulls the lead line. The other one pulls the cork line. It makes it a lot easier. But then there's two of you to share in that
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
252:  #2 catch # instead of one. That's when it makes it harder.
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah, I guess so. #
252:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  Um Did you move around much when you were small? Did you?
252:  Did I what?
Interviewer:  Did you move around much or did you live in the same house?
252:  Oh no. We moved. {NS} Goodness god almighty.
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah it's not glaring in. #
252:  #2 {X} # No we'd move in I guess five or six times. In my lifetime.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about that? Is there one house that you remember particularly well, you know, that you lived in for
252:  It was oh, not much different from any of the rest of 'em.
Interviewer:  #1 I thought #
252:  #2 Every # damn one of 'em leaked.
Interviewer:  {NW} I would like to get an idea of what it looked like. Do you think you could sort of make a sketch of it, of the floor plan or just describe the floor plan to me? What way the rooms were and?
252:  No. That's about the one thing I'm not is no architect. But it was just an ordinary small house three to four room house.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Just Uh, was it a shotgun type house or, you know, one room behind the other where there Where there a room here and a room here and then two rooms behind here or
252:  Mm similar to that. Some of 'em were and some of 'em wasn't.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh There You say it had about four rooms #1 in it? #
252:  #2 Yeah # Usually four rooms
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  was about the extent of it.
Interviewer:  What when you first walk in what what room would you be in?
252:  You walked in the living room.
Interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
252:  #2 Just # like you walk right in right here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  When you come in that door. Usually the kitchen set off like that and then it was much bigger.
Interviewer:  Was it behind the living room?
252:  Yeah. Come out of the kitchen the living room and then your bedroom's usually in the back.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Well say say if you {NS} Is it a square? Was it s- #1 square? #
252:  #2 Most all # of 'em were built on the same type.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Then
252:  You come in the front door here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Usually your kitchen was a big room where you cooked and eat in it.
Interviewer:  uh-huh
252:  Then.
Interviewer:  It was? There would there be a wall this way or?
252:  Yeah. The bedrooms would sit over here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  And back then, you didn't have no bathrooms. You used outhouses.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Was there any hall?
252:  Usually there was a little hall in there.
Interviewer:  Where where would the hall be?
252:  Down the middle of the room. Your bedrooms would sit on both side.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. So just a hall right?
252:  mm-hmm {D: Little halls} into that one right there
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Um. Was the hall was there a hall between the living room and the #1 kitchen or? #
252:  #2 No. # It usually started just similar to this trailer right here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  It just started after you left your living room.
Interviewer:  Oh, I see. This this was a living room here or?
252:  Uh-huh.
Interviewer:  And this was the kitchen next to it?
252:  Uh-huh. That usually took up half of your house right there.
Interviewer:  The kitchen did?
252:  The kitchen and your living room. Then your bed rooms was usually on both sides down the hallway.
Interviewer:  What about out here? Was there?
252:  Out here?
Interviewer:  Yeah. If you stepped out of the living room you'd be on the?
252:  {X} When you come in you see you come in your living room just like you come in that now that #1 we have #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  this built on there.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
252:  #2 But before # we built that on you come right in your living room.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Then you went in your kitchen.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
252:  Just exactly like this trailer's set up.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Well, if you walked out of the living room, would you?
252:  Be going right down that hallway but on this trailer
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Uh, the hallway sits there on the side of the building, but it was down the middle of the building.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  And your bedrooms was on both sides of the hallway.
Interviewer:  What about outside the house? Did you have? If you walked outside the house would you just be out in the yard or would? #1 you have? #
252:  #2 Be out # right out in the yard. You come right out of the yard right into the house.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. You didn't have any porch or any #1 thing? #
252:  #2 Well # usually there was a little porch on most all of the buildings.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Um How did you heat your house?
252:  With a fire place. And a wood heater.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Now in my very early days it was a fireplace.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  And it would freeze you to damn death.
Interviewer:  {NW}
252:  And then they got wood heaters.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
252:  Every house had a chimney on it then. You cooked with wood on wood stoves. Until they went to kerosene stoves. Now gas stoves. Now electric stoves.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about on the fireplace? That part on the floor in front of the fire place. Maybe made out of rock or brick or something.
252:  {X}
Interviewer:  Do do you know what I mean? The
252:  #1 Well the #
Interviewer:  #2 Towards the # the floor of #1 the fireplace. #
252:  #2 {X} # Well it came off of the fireplace right the floor.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Do you have a special name for that? Did you ever hear?
252:  Mm no. You can go right over there in that rec room and get a look at that one and that's similar.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of a hearth or hearth?
252:  Hearth.
Interviewer:  What what part of the fireplace is that?
252:  That's coming off of the front of it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Did you ever hear of people cooking on a fire place or?
252:  Oh sure. You take right over here in the rec room. Get up and come go with me and let me show you what a fireplace looks like. -place you ever seen?
Interviewer:  This is a pretty large fireplace. That's four
252:  That's good four feet.
Interviewer:  Uh, you know that part above the fire place?
252:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  You call that? That you can set {D: blocks of things on}
252:  Yeah. Call it the to me, you call it a shelf.
Interviewer:  Okay.
252:  I don't know what other people call it.
Interviewer:  What about the things that you lay the wood across on inside the fireplace?
252:  What are they called {D: Francy?}
Auxiliary 1:  Andirons mostly.
252:  What?
Auxiliary 1:  Andirons. {NW}
252:  Hand iron?
Auxiliary 1:  Andiron.
252:  Andirons.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of that?
252:  I've heard it before but I don't know what the hell it means.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of dog irons?
252:  #1 Dog irons. #
Interviewer:  #2 Fire dogs? #
252:  Yeah fire dogs. Yeah everybody calls 'em different things.
Interviewer:  What what sounds most familiar to you?
252:  Fire dogs sounds more to me, familiar. I've hear 'em called that more.
Interviewer:  If you were going to start a fire what kind of wood do you use for starter?
252:  Pine.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  Then lay your oak logs on it.
Interviewer:  What would you call that kind of rich pine that you would use for starting it?
252:  Just uh Fat lighter.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about, uh, taking a big piece of wood and setting it toward the back of the fireplace, and it'd burn all night.
252:  These oak logs do.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Do you ever hear a special name for for that though?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear back back stick or back log or?
252:  I have not. Hey.
Interviewer:  Hi.
Auxiliary 2:  {X}
Interviewer:  #1 Oh really? #
252:  #2 Hmm #
Auxiliary 2:  Since Monday.
Auxiliary 1:  Well that's a shame.
Auxiliary 2:  Feeling better now. {X}
252:  Now there's a fellow right there that can give you a lot of history he's got an old shoebox full of arrowheads that he's found, he has six.
Auxiliary 2:  {D: Wilson's} done past viewing arrowheads.
252:  Is that right?
Auxiliary 2:  Three about that long. Beautiful perfect {X} Two three of 'em.
252:  He spends his time walking up the beaches picking up arrowheads. And he does have a nice collection.
Auxiliary 1:  Listen I hope we didn't impose on you {X}.
Interviewer:  Oh. You know the black stuff that forms in the chimney?
252:  Smut.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Any other names for that?
252:  Mm Soot, lotta people call it soot but it's mud.
Auxiliary 1:  I want to make my {X}
Interviewer:  What about the things that you shuffle out of the fireplace?
252:  That is ashes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  After you burn so much wood over there you got
Auxiliary 1:  I burn it up
252:  Shovel the ashes out.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And some of the things you have in the house, the thing that I'm sitting on, you call a?
252:  {D: Gold chair.}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about that thing there that?
252:  That's a davenport.
Interviewer:  Any other names for that?
252:  Yeah, we use it for {D: bath.} {NW}
Interviewer:  {NS} What else besides a a
252:  Settee.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about sof-
252:  Sofa.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Is that all the same thing?
252:  That's all the same thing.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What different things um could people have in their bedrooms for keeping clothes in?
252:  Closets.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. That's built in isn't it?
252:  That's usually build in, yes.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear a closet called a locker?
252:  I've heard of lockers.
Interviewer:  Is that the same #1 thing? #
252:  #2 It's # same thing.
Interviewer:  Isn't that the word they use on a boat? The lock-
252:  Lockers?
Interviewer:  W- would you ever call a closet in your house a locker?
252:  No I would call it a closet.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. #1 What ab- #
252:  #2 On # a boat, we called it a locker.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  The locker room.
Interviewer:  What about the Uh If you didn't have a built in closet what might you have?
252:  Shoot usually do what I do every morning throw 'em on a chair put 'em on the bed.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Floor.
Interviewer:  Well what if you had something made with drawers in it or
252:  You'd uh you'd you'd cram stuff in there just to get 'em out of the way.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What would you have with drawers in it?
252:  A dresser.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Anything else besides a dresser?
252:  Mm no.
Interviewer:  You ever hear of a bureau or?
252:  Bureau, yeah. It's the same thing.
Interviewer:  Is one of them more old fashioned or?
252:  Well I like the bureau. It's more old fashioned than the dresser.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about things that they used to have at um you could hang your clothes up in?
252:  That's a closet.
Interviewer:  Well before they had built in closets uh.
252:  Hangers.
Interviewer:  What's the hanger on?
252:  It's a pole sticking across your room where you can hang your clothes on.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Did you ever hear something um {NS} a wardrobe or?
252:  Wardrobe yeah.
Interviewer:  What does a wardrobe look like?
252:  It's a build in thing you put your clothes on. Yeah.
Interviewer:  It's built in?
252:  Oh yeah.
Interviewer:  Like
252:  And it has drawers.
Interviewer:  Is it like a closet then?
252:  It's similar, very.
Interviewer:  What about something similar to a wardrobe that isn't built in?
252:  Hmm.
Interviewer:  #1 Did you ever #
252:  #2 That's # {X}
Interviewer:  An armoire or chifforobe?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  And a general name for the things that you have in the house all the tables and chairs and things. A general name for that would be?
252:  Furniture.
Interviewer:  Okay. Do you ever hear it called house fixings or {X}?
252:  No. Call a lot of this {D: flounder}
Interviewer:  What do you mean by flounder? Just?
252:  Outdated.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
252:  In the way.
Interviewer:  Just
252:  Mostly I call it junk.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about a a room that could be used for things that you don't know where else to put them?
252:  As a junk room.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And something um {D: unroll or sit.} You having a window To pull down to keep out the light. You call those
252:  Shades.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And
252:  What the hell you think I just pulled cross there to keep that sun out of your face {D: well and good?}
Interviewer:  Do you do you think of this as shades too?
252:  Sure.
Interviewer:  This?
252:  Isn't that shade get sun out of your face?
Interviewer:  Well what uh the things that pull down, you would call those shades?
252:  #1 Those are shades too #
Interviewer:  #2 These you pull across. #
252:  yeah.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about curtains? Is that the same as #1 shades? #
252:  #2 That's # the same thing, it keeps the s- sh- shades yeah.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And the the covering on the top of the house is called the?
252:  Roof.
Interviewer:  And the things along the edges of the roof to carry the water off?
252:  Hmm. Drains?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. How how are they built in or do they hang there or?
252:  They hang there. They're hanging all over this trailer
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about when you have a house in an L? The place where they come together? That's the?
252:  Well you have a drain there.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Do you ever hear that called the valley?
252:  No. {NS}
Interviewer:  What about the room at the top of the house? Just under the roof.
252:  That's a {D: dais.}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Or the space between the ceiling and the the roof.
252:  Just usually a junk room.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did you ever hear it called the attic #1 or? #
252:  #2 Attic # Yeah.
Interviewer:  Garret?
252:  Yeah attic mostly.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did you ever see kitchens uh built differently from how they're built now? Like
252:  Hmm, yes. Quite a bit.
Interviewer:  How were they different?
252:  Well, they were different because they were larger.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  You cook the meat usually mostly in the same room. In the kitchen.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did you ever see kitchens built separately from the rest of #1 the house? #
252:  #2 Oh # yes. Oh yes.
Interviewer:  How?
252:  You had a little room there that you eat in, you had one that you cooked in.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Why were they built separately?
252:  Cause that's the way people want them, they had the house built like that.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh so no
252:  #1 That was it, no. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  {X}
Interviewer:  And a little room off the kitchen, where you could store canned goods and extra dishes and things.
252:  That's one of them right {D: down there.}
Interviewer:  What would you call it?
252:  Storeroom.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Do you ever hear of a pantry or a
252:  #1 Pantry. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  Pantry yeah.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and talking about the daily housework um say {NS} a woman would say, if her house was a big mess, she'd say she had to? {NS} Do what?
252:  Clean it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the thing she sweeps with would be a
252:  Broom.
Interviewer:  And if the broom was in the corner, and the door was open so that the door was sort of hiding the broom, You say the broom was
252:  In the closet.
Interviewer:  Well, that's not in the closet, it's in the corner. And the door's open, so you can't see the broom. You say the broom is? Where? In relation to the door?
252:  She probably hid it to keep from using {NW}
Interviewer:  She hid it where?
252:  In the corner.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. But you'd say it's back of the door or
252:  #1 Back of the door #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  is a good place, and sweep all the trash under the rug.
Interviewer:  Under the what?
252:  Rug. Too far to sweep it to the door, that's where they usually sweep.
Interviewer:  {NW}
252:  {NW}
Interviewer:  Um. Say you had a two story house, to get from the first floor to the second?
252:  They know who didn't clean the upstairs always clean the downstairs and wouldn't let nobody go up there. #1 Get #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  the company downstairs.
Interviewer:  Did you ever live in a large two #1 story house? #
252:  #2 Oh yes. # I lived upstairs and we always swept the trash down the stairs and let them take it from there.
Interviewer:  Um. The thing that uh from the porch to the ground you To get from the porch to the ground you have some
252:  Steps?
Interviewer:  Okay. Do you remember um
252:  What are you trying to do, see how much sense I got or how little I ain't got? {NS}
Interviewer:  I'm just interested in the different expressions and things from around here.
252:  You'll get some good ones.
Interviewer:  Do you remember um you seen different kinds of porches? Built like the porches go all the way around the house?
252:  Oh yeah. Yeah and go all the way around the house and halfway around the house, and right and little porch in front of the house.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did any of the porches have special names?
252:  Yeah porches.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear piazza or #1 gallery or? #
252:  #2 No # they use that up north.
Interviewer:  What do they call them? {NS}
252:  I don't know what they call them cuz I ain't never been up north.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. But you never heard anything but porch around here?
252:  Porches.
Interviewer:  And the you know some houses have boards on the outside that sort of lap over each other?
252:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  You call those
252:  Boards.
Interviewer:  What you know the the design. Where the outside of the house is, Instead of being brick something it's covered with uh long boards that That are, fixed by lapping over each other.
252:  Mm-hmm. That's a wood house.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Do you ever hear a clapboard or weatherboarding?
252:  Weatherboarding.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Mostly what they called it round then.
Interviewer:  And say if you wanted to, to hang up a picture, you take a nail and a?
252:  Drive it into the wall.
Interviewer:  With a?
252:  Hammer.
Interviewer:  mm-kay So you say I took the hammer and I, what the nail in?
252:  You knock the hell out of it. {NW}
Interviewer:  Using the word drive you?
252:  Drive.
Interviewer:  #1 I took the hammer and I #
252:  #2 {X} # Drove the nail in.
Interviewer:  Okay.
252:  Wall.
Interviewer:  And if it didn't get in far enough, you say, it's gotta be.
252:  You usually hit your thumb and curse {X} For about thirty minutes and try it again.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, so you say, the nail's gotta be. What in further?
252:  It's gotta be drove in further.
Interviewer:  Okay. And, if the door was open and you didn't want it to be. You'd ask somebody to,
252:  {NW}
Interviewer:  If the door is open, and you don't want it to be, you'd tell someone to
252:  Close the damn door.
Interviewer:  Okay. #1 Or is that #
252:  #2 You'd say # {D: cold wind out.}
Interviewer:  Another word you could use instead of close, you'd say.
252:  Shut it.
Interviewer:  Okay. Where would y'all use to keep wood?
252:  Right by the stove and the fireplace.
Interviewer:  Do you ever have any little buildings?
252:  Had little boxes you kept it in wooden boxes.
Interviewer:  What about tools? Where were they
252:  You had 'em in the tool shed. Under the bed scattered all over the house that's where mine's at now. Scattered all over the house.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
252:  Takes me thirty minutes to find my hammer to do two minutes worth of work with it.
Interviewer:  Um, you mentioned the the the outhouse, any other names for that?
252:  Yeah but I don't think I should {D: mention it um} {NW} {X} Bathhouse, we'd better let that go with that.
Interviewer:  Okay. What, did anyone around here um Do any sort of farming when you were young? Or was everybody
252:  Everybody had their own gardens.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  You see I came up right during the depression. {NS}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Everybody had their little garden.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And a bunch of chickens.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Because money was hard to get a hold of.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  You didn't make no money nobody didn't have no money you caught what you eat and you raised what you eat.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  Like the chickens produced our breakfast every morning, the eggs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  We'd steal a hog every now and then so we could have some bacon and a little grease. And fish clams oysters scallops. Crabs. We caught all that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  And we spent our money for booze. Always keep your money for booze cause they wouldn't give you that.
Interviewer:  What different on a farm, what different buildings did you have?
252:  I don't know, I never lived on a farm.
Interviewer:  Did, well say where would you store hay?
252:  Throw it in a barn I guess.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
252:  If you didn't eat it.
Interviewer:  What about the upper part of the barn? Where you'd store the hay, you'd call that the?
252:  No, I'm telling you I'm not no farmer, I'm a fisherman.
Interviewer:  But I wanna ask you.
252:  #1 That's a attic too #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
252:  I guess.
Interviewer:  Huh?
252:  That's up in the attic too.
Interviewer:  What about um if you had too much hay? To put up there, you could leave it outside in a? #1 Did you ever see. #
252:  #2 mm #
Interviewer:  Or hear about hay left out.
252:  In the shed?
Interviewer:  Well, not in a shed, they, they'd take a pole and they, {NS} Um. Pile the hay up around this pole. And they call that a?
252:  Yeah you barely drew a thought through a farm, now you're getting out of my line.
Interviewer:  Um, do you ever hear of a haystack or hayrick?
252:  Oh yeah. I ain't ever been on no hay ride either.
Interviewer:  {NW}
252:  I've been telling you I'm strictly fisherman, I'm not no farmer.
Interviewer:  I'm gonna ask you somethings about the farm just as you if you've never heard of them you know, just tell me that but you know, some of these you might be familiar with. Did you ever hear of a a hay doodle or hay shock or haymow?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  Anything like that? Or second cutting or ladder mat?
252:  No.
Interviewer:  What about a place for storing corn? That'd be a?