Interviewer: probably have somebody how it was around here has he? 472: He's {D: setting how.} {NS} Stream of harps, seems like. {D: Nothing united} the better. Interviewer: Is it usually this hot for this time of year? 472: No not some we have some few days but not like it's been regularly you know. There's been a lot of hot days this year. More than we've ever experienced before. And then other places that's uh much worse than it is here. It's uh they're hot out in Texas {NS} I think. Interviewer: Yeah I was out there last summer, it was pretty hot then. I don't think it was hot as it is this summer though. 472: No it's hotter out there this summer than the then uh we've been hearing from. Interviewer: Where abouts did you say you were born Mr- {B} 472: Uh up at uh S- uh Stockton, Alabama. Interviewer: At Stockton? 472: Yes. Interviewer: That's in what county is that in? 472: In Baldwin County. Interviewer: How far away is that? 472: About ten miles up the river, the Kennesaw River. Interviewer: Which river is that? 472: Kennesaw River. Interviewer: Is that a very what size town is that? Is Stockton a town or a 472: Uh yes, it's become to be one. And not, it wasn't. It's just a few houses along there in Stockton. But there's always been uh industrious mill down at the foot of the hill we call it. And uh {NW} you might be Stockton had built from this mill, the work of this mill. Built Stockton up and started it. And then they began to come in other people and build them some uh uh I mean build houses and and uh farm. Begin to garden and uh it built up mighty fast from then on. Interviewer: Mm. 472: And and the longer it the time come by well uh and the more homes was built. {NW} Interviewer: What kind of industry do they have up there? {NS} 472: Well at this time I don't know just what all's about. And uh but they still have a mill up there. It's called a sawmill now, below where the big mill, the {X} Mill was. Yes sir. Interviewer: It's called a sawmill and there are lot of workers there. There were a lot of people working there. Yes sir. 472: The mill boss, the mister {D: Johnny Mike} {B} uh was when I left there. I used to work there. Interviewer: Oh, is that right? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: Worked in a sawmill? 472: Yeah. night watch. Interviewer: I see. 472: That was my job. Interviewer: I see. How long did you do that? 472: Well near three years, I suppose. Somewhere around close to three years. If I remember right. Interviewer: Yes sir. Is he do you know where Miss {B} {X} 472: Mm-hmm yeah. Interviewer: I think she lives up there. 472: Yeah uh I might know her yeah. Oh Interviewer: #1 {X} # 472: #2 yeah. # Interviewer: I talked to her in December. {NS} 472: You did? Interviewer: Sure did. 472: Well I'll declare. {X} Interviewer: #1 I did # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: the same thing I'm doing here. 472: Yeah? Wow wow Interviewer: She was I think she was born and raised in Stockton. {NW} 472: Let's see, yeah, I believe she was too. Interviewer: Yes sir. I guess uh you have a lot of farming going on up there too? 472: {D: Well there's a good yield} Uh was I guess it's still going. I remember uh right where the doctor used to live they had a nice about two acres of corn and every year they'd planted corn there and they had it checked. You've heard of corn being checked in rows, you know? Interviewer: No sir, what does that mean? 472: That means you have a row this way and a row thisaway across, you know. Interviewer: Cross ways? 472: Yeah, all all over the patch, that whole field all through that grass. a-and it's called uh checked corn for the kept the corn flat. {NS} And you know you can uh flat that corn that way and it will really make good. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: Yeah. Us boys when when we used to come to Stockton to trade at the store we lived about four miles above Stockton up there. And we come down there and uh Papa would talk about that little field of corn that he's checked and we never knowed nothing about no corn begin checked and we did learn from that you see that you could plant corn checked. Interviewer: Hmm. 472: And it was real interesting to us boys. We liked that. Interviewer: That's the way to do it? 472: Yeah. He had a great-uncle that had a big store out in the upper edge of Stockton up there right at the forks of the road now at the big Methodist church. And uh I remember back there when we'd stop at that store and trade with them and my daddy's uncle great-uncle do you say it? and they'd weigh the stuff out by pound. {NS} Buy buy meal and anything you'd bought it was by pounds and you buy cloth you they made it by yards. And it was really interesting that the children then and we looked forwards {NS} for to come to town so we'd get some candy or a fruit or something, you know? Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: About once a week. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Walked about four miles. Interviewer: Had to walk four miles to town? 472: Uh-huh. But we were just as happy on the road as we could be, you know? With daddy. Us children. {D: and all of us} Interviewer: #1 How many # 472: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: children were there in your family? 472: Well I believe there were at that time there were let's see uh four, I believe. Interviewer: Yes sir. How many boys and girls? 472: Uh let's see, there was uh three boys um three boys and one girl all there was. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Yeah. Four in the family. Interviewer: I see. So you were born in Stockton, how long did you live up there? 472: Well practically all my life until I come to Bay Minette, in other words settle down here. Interviewer: How old were you when you came here? 472: Well I was grown. I let's see I don't know how old I was when I come to Stockton. Mm I just don't remember. Interviewer: You guess you were thirty, forty? 472: Yeah, middle-aged. Uh-huh. Interviewer: Been here ever since? 472: Yeah. Practically ever since. Not {NS} not too {X} I mean been here more than any other place since that since that time. Interviewer: Have you ever lived anywhere else besides Stockton or Bay Minette? 472: Uh no, a while down in Whitehouse Fork, I lived down there about a couple of years. Interviewer: Whitehouse Fork. 472: Yeah that's about s- seven miles below here, I believe. Interviewer: It's seven miles from Bay Minette? 472: Uh-huh. Interviewer: Which direction is that? 472: It's uh south. Interviewer: South. 472: South. Oh yes sir. Interviewer: I see. I see. So you moved down there after you'd been in Bay Minette for a while? 472: Yeah. And then uh I come back to Bay Minette {NW} Interviewer: How do you like it here? 472: I like it just fine although I'd rather be back to Stockton on the river you know? I uh an ol'- an old river coon I reckon, I was raised at the river most of my life. And uh I learned to lo-love the river when I was about ten-years-old. And they {D: began} and this beautiful moss that hangs on the trees at the river? Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Seemed like that stopped my heart and mind and I can remember back there when I first ever came to the river and saw that beautiful moss. I mean that was beautiful. And it is still is and That's one of the reasons I love that place so well is on account of it uh God's nature. Seen it. {NS} Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And then I can see the boats and hear the boats and I love that. {NS} Interviewer: What kind of boats are those that go on the river? 472: Well there was mostly little motorboats at the time. But there are larger boats going up and down there now. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: And this is the um let's see, Kennesaw, did you say, River? 472: Kennesaw River. Interviewer: Kennesaw River. 472: {X} lower by Atlanta. Interviewer: I see. That's apparently a good-sized river? 472: Yeah, Kennesaw is a fine river. Yeah. It goes in makes a connection with the Mobile River way above there up at Mount Vernon I believe. It's somewhere right in there. Interviewer: I see. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: Did it handle uh shipping and all that kind of thing? 472: Well not too much great shipping. All in all on the Mobile River though uh they do carry lots of {X} It's tied to this river. and they uh {NW} have a lot of tugboats in there. Interviewer: I see. 472: {X} Interviewer: Did you say you were a river coon? 472: Yeah I called one {NW} Interviewer: #1 Was a river coon # 472: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: what does that mean? 472: {X} That means uh just uh like a coon you know, coon lotta coons in this river swamp. And um I just call it uh that's an old river coon you know? {NS} And and it's know a lot of old darkies up there, you know. {NW} And they can tell me some great stories about the um nature and about the animals in the swamp. Bear. Especially the deer and they've even sh- {X} {NS} they even showed me a {NS} pine tree real large where those bear on the south side they would scratch on this pine tree and make a big sign and each one come along would uh scratch and get this tar to come out and rub that wool in that tar and {NS} it'd keep the mosquitoes I suppose from biting their heads so bad in that swamp, you know, a lot of mosquitoes. Okay. And so I learned about that and they got a mound right close to this tree {NS} it's uh this big pine tree and it's as high as these oaks that the Indians had built. And it's tremendous. And uh Interviewer: What was it for? 472: Huh? This mound? Oh they uh I guess they built it to get out of high water. Gotta get up on the outta high water's a big thing, yeah a big thing. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 472: And uh big big trees growing on it now. Timber. Interviewer: I see. 472: And {NS} Mr. MacMillan that owns the little sawmill he he was cutting lumber, cutting timber up there for the sawmill? In the swamp and I went to the office own day and I asked him I said Mr.? MacMillan, I said Mr. Johnny I said do you remember up at the mound? I said there's a big old pine there were there was animals, those bear scratches it and rubs on it. I said what about let's don't let's don't cut that pine with it. Be alright that you miss that tree and don't cut it for lumber? I said that's a great scenery to me. It's a huge tree and uh I like to go there and look where those bear has clawed that pine. And the last time I was there I got on my tiptoes, take my middle finger and I just could touch the uh uh last sign that the big bear had put there. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: And the darky told me huh that th- th- that old darky told me he said now he says I tell you what. He said that's a big pretty big bear to get up that high and scratch on the tree but he says watch that {D: spar} now, he said the next one comes along the male comes along and and uh tries that and if he can't reach where that one did, said he won't stay there. He he'll move on out. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: Yeah. And that was what that was all about. Interviewer: Huh. 472: Why Interviewer: #1 I get the idea of # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: the other one would be too big for him. 472: #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 472: Too Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 much # Interviewer: {NW} 472: #1 too much # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: #1 {D: man} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: you know. And he wouldn't tackle him. Something like. Interviewer: I haven't heard of that before. 472: Yeah! Interviewer: That's interesting. 472: Yeah. Well that's the the pine I reckon is still there I can carry and show you the sign on it. I looked at them all the uh {D: Mr. Byded} owned the land in there, he was the one I was up there with and he carried me up there to show me all of this. And in later later days I went back up there to spend a week by myself on a big camp house that Mr. MacMillan and him had up there. {NS} And wasn't nobody there and I s- I spent nearly about a week up there, about a week by myself. And I fished, {NS} enjoy life. So one evening I left the camp about nearly sundown, but I don't know where's a good place to catch me some mess of bream. And I went up above there to the uh what they call {D: Biyasman} and I kept catching fish and messing around, that was dark overtook me. Well I only had a little boat. A little old champion motor and a little fourteen-foot flat-barge boat. And I got my boat started back at the house and there was a log stuck out in the lake and I run into that log from a boat Interviewer: Mm. 472: and the boat slipped off of the log and I was sitting there happy because I'd dumped me right in where all those bad ones see. That would've dumped me right in there and I'd to had to got out on the side where the mound was to make it back to the camp. {D: So I could've got to me} {NS} {D: land at the camp} Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: {NS} All right that's that'd frighten me about that you know. Interviewer: I guess so. 472: So uh my little motor that log, slipped off the log and I went on down to the camp, I couldn't see on her just through the opening in the timber. And uh I come on down to the camp and I had to clean my fish and I had a {D: lighter} course all I had light I had and I put it on the {D: war} on the big boat and sat in my boat and while I was a-cleaning my fish I heared some {D: wirecats} come. Those {D: wirecats}, there was a big tree laying over the lake right over over me and those wildcats went up that tree right right up up sat and that frightened me a little bit. I didn't have a gun, I reckon. So {NS} I take my hatchet and get on the boat {NS} like that {NW} and uh they ran down a tree and left. I heared them come and hit the ground running off. And so I finished up. Next day about ten oh clock I was had to be a' looking out in the lake. There come that log with the tide. Coming down, I'd knocked that log loose from a boat Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: {X} 472: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: {NS} Knocked it loose! Then I'm behind {NS} pushes, you know? and I was so happy when and I enjoyed that. Interviewer: I didn't realize you had bears that size around here. 472: Oh Lord yeah, there's some big bear in that swamp. There used to be. I can carry you down there at uh the Lower Fleet they call it down on Kennesaw. Interviewer: The what? 472: A Lower Pleat. Interviewer: What is that? 472: Well they had the big ships in there you know? Big nest of them big ships. Interviewer: I see. 472: Mm-hmm. Well I can show you right across the river there from that landing. Uh you carry you over there and the bear tracks over there are like cow tracks over in there. {NW} Uh they got trails over there. Interviewer: That many of them? 472: A lot of them. They're not them huge bear though, they're smaller bear. Yeah They're pretty good size. Yeah I can show you the tracks where they come across there. Muddy place. Interviewer: Are they dangerous? 472: Well they would be uh if you used to get out to it where they were they had young ones, you know. Where they have young ones, then they'll fight you. But if not they they get out of your way, they {NS} they're scared you'll gonna do something to it. Interviewer: I see. 472: But they'll get out of your way if uh Interviewer: Are they these brown bears? 472: Yeah. some of them darker then brown though. Some of them's mostly black. Them real big ones. Interviewer: I see. 472: They're mostly black. Interviewer: How old did you say you are now Mr- {B} 472: Well I'll soon be seventy-five. Interviewer: You're seventy-four right now? 472: Yeah, seventy-four. Interviewer: When's your birthday? 472: Nineteenth of September. {NS} Interviewer: That's not too far away. 472: No it ain't. {NS} {D: so you never know that} {X} {NS} {X} {NS} {X} {NS} Interviewer: You say you worked in a sawmill for a while when you're in Stockton? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: What what kind of work did you do most of 472: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 your life? # 472: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 472: I worked in the woods most of my life. In most timber. Interviewer: The lumber business? 472: No. {NW} it was getting tar out of those pines Interviewer: {NW} 472: to uh send off, I mean to sell. To sell. Uh we worked {NW} under people you know. They had the business and we worked for them. But long towards the last I had me a little business of my own. Uh three years of turpentine we call it and I made and sold it myself. It turpentine. Interviewer: So you were in the turpentine business 472: #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 most of your # life? 472: uh part of my life, like yeah. Well most of my life, yeah. {NW} But part of three last years that that I had a little patch of my own. Just leased the timber. Interviewer: I see. {NS} {X} {X} Did you work for Mr- {B} uh or was it somebody else? 472: Uh it was somebody, it was uh fellow by the name {B} He lived up there at Stockton. And then Brown Crosby. Interviewer: I see. 472: We were working under him then. He owned the business. Interviewer: How did you get into that work? 472: M- I was raised to it, my father that's about all he ever did you see in his day. Interviewer: Your father was in the turpentine business? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: How'd you like it? 472: I liked it fine, I didn't think I could ever do nothing else, I didn't why we didn't know nothing else hardly. Just at that time, there was just nothing but woodwork for people outside of the gardens and potato patches. {D: Aside from that} Interviewer: Everybody had a garden? 472: Practically everybody had to have one to live. And then they had uh hogs cows uh milk cow. Way we were we had uh hogs and milk cows. We mostly raised cow though, we didn't fool with hogs too much. Interviewer: Oh, is that right? 472: Uh-huh. Interviewer: What did you do with hogs? 472: Well they'll kind of a thing that's much a outside of a fence as they are on the inside. Interviewer: Oh. 472: #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: They're really something, hogs. And you got to prove to them and then no you can't prove to them all the way That's the way I see it. Something. Interviewer: Just kind of hard to look at them? 472: Uh yeah. And we couldn't do it. Uh but nevertheless we'd take a notion, for uh meat, we'd kill a cow. {X} and dry it smoke it dry {D: we didn't have a way to} keep it but smoke it dry, salt it. Smoke it dry and then pack it in white pine boxes. And then mother would take it out if she wanted to cook some for breakfast. She'd soak it overnight anyway and cook it and they'd be just about ripe when she soaked it overnight to get that salt out of it so we could eat it. Interviewer: Yes sir. {NS} 472: And then we'd go to this river swamp to the river and put us out a line some limb lines and catch us a big old catfish and that was part of our meat. We'd carry that home and cut it up, salt it, and dry it and stack it well. And that's that's s- part of the meat we'd have to eat. Interviewer: Yes sir. {NS} 472: Unless Daddy took his gun and killed a mess of squirrels or something like that. Interviewer: Right. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: What kind of squirrels do you have up there? 472: Cat squirrels. In the river swamp {X} most of them. Interviewer: I don't think I've ever seen a cat squirrel, what does it look like? 472: Well I've got them right out there, you'll see now in a few minutes. One of that young been out there. Something going with some of my squirrels though, I don't know. Somebody might love to eat them. {NW} Down to town, maybe not {NS} though. I had a lot of pet ones out there now that I can call up. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Feed them. Take care of them. Those beautiful oaks. Interviewer: The the uh cat squirrels the only type you have around here? 472: That's all we have. Now back out in the woods uh you'll find what you call fox squirrels and you have black fox squirrels, white around the nose and eyes. Then you have a red fox squirrel {NS} all over red. Interviewer: What color is this cat squirrel? 472: Gray. Interviewer: It's gray all over? 472: Gray all over. Interviewer: I see. 472: But I did have a couple of gray squirrels here with red tails. Interviewer: Really? 472: And I wondered about that many a time and I had one here with a gray tail and he was red, the squirrel. Gray squ- the cat squirrel. Interviewer: He's just backwards. 472: #1 Uh yeah! # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: #1 I just # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 472: uh it's it was amazing, you know, to me. And I I hated to see them get destroyed but I reckon cars killed them or something, I don't know. {NS} {C: knocking sound} Gone. {NS} Interviewer: Yeah, I'd like to see one of those. {C: train whistle} 472: Yeah, {NS} they they uh they's something to look at. Interviewer: That's 472: You can't imagine why that that's said that way. But it sure was. {NW} Interviewer: You said you went out and caught a catfish every night and then did you like to do any fi- much fishing yourself? 472: Oh yeah, I used to do that uh part of the time before I went to night watching at the sawmill. I fished a whole lot while I was {C: bird call} tending to Briar Landing, you know. I fished a whole lot around the landing there {C: bird call} {D: catching and selling} That's {C: bird call} that's uh {NS} {C: exterior speech} {X} {NS} watch {C: overlapping exterior speech} watch the land just {NS} Interviewer: What'd you fish for usually? {NS} 472: Catfish. {C: exterior audio} Interviewer: Is there any other kind of fish that people can catch around here? {NS} 472: Yeah there's some all kinds of fish, most in the freshwater. Different names. Uh bream and two or three kinds of bream I believe. The really the best kind I like to catch is them big old bull bream. Interviewer: Bull bream. Yeah, where they uh {NW} if you ain't got your boat anchored, they'll pull it around 472: #1 you know? # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 472: That's Interviewer: They're a pretty good-sized fish. 472: You better believe it. Interviewer: Pretty strong. 472: And mean {X} Last year year before last I believe it was, was up there fishing, he came at the uh nice place. And we hung a big one. I don't know what it was. It was big. And they pulled uh the end of the boat around, I said well what in the world is coming up here? And uh he said that's one of them big old bull bream. And I pulled him on up make sure it was Interviewer: Goodness. 472: and it was caught some of them big old bull bream. And but anyway I'm I like to catch any kind of fish. Just to feel him pull on the line, you know? Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Yeah. I got me a rod and reel now and I learned how to use that and I really enjoying that line and reel. Interviewer: Those bull bream pretty good eating fish? 472: Yeah. I had one uh yesterday. The ladies had some fish over here and they brought me over one and uh it's all I could eat. one fish, he was so big. Interviewer: #1 Yeah? # 472: #2 Bream. # Interviewer: Goodness. {NS} 472: Yeah. {X} mess. {X} Interviewer: What about bass or trout or any 472: Yeah. Trout. Bass. A lot of them. A lot of them. {NS} But you know all all kinds of fish is not near as many of them now as they used to be. Interviewer: Huh. 472: They um I don't know if sometimes somebody says they put them they done go in the frying pan. Interviewer: {NW} 472: #1 You know? # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: {NW} #1 But # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 472: anyhow there's certain spots you can go and catch more of them. But they're not as plentiful as they used to be. {C: tapping sound} Catfish {D: the faster} you can go out there now, put you out a line and you don't catch so many of them. You just catch one every now and then. Interviewer: Is that right? {NS} 472: Yeah. It is, just think about it. {X} Interviewer: I wonder why. 472: I don't know. I was down on the river here been two years, yeah they're three years ago now, down there in the boat one day and I saw a catfish yes there's gonna be a story now that Interviewer: #1 It's alright # 472: #2 you can hardly # believe. Interviewer: {D: Okay.} 472: I had a trot line out. {C: clears throat} Kept a-losing the hooks, not only the bait but the hooks and uh so it was rough that day, ought not to been out there in the boat but I was. And so I looked over to the right and somebod- some means another and I saw a catfish, yellow cat. He came up out of the water, he stuck his back of his head and uh that big fin on his back come up out of the water and his head was big as a foot tub. Interviewer: Goodness gracious. 472: And uh your- and his uh length of him, I saw the length of him and you couldn't hardly put him in a pick-up truck and he would've stayed in there. Interviewer: Where was this now? On the river? 472: On Kennesaw River. And that just uh I'm just seeing now, coming up out of that water, I mean he just in big big waves, you know and he he just happened to get too close to the top I reckon or he saw me and come up, something, I don't know why. {NW} I'm glad he went the other way. Interviewer: Did he looked like a whale, didn't he? 472: #1 He he sure did but it was a # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: fish I know. #1 Real big. # Interviewer: #2 Goodness. # 472: I know a catfish, yeah {D: a cat} Interviewer: I've heard of a very big catfish around dams you know 472: Well there's seventy-five and eighty pound ones been caught on that river. Interviewer: Wow. 472: Yeah. I've caught them thirty and forty pounds Interviewer: Woo. 472: myself. Interviewer: Boy, that's 472: #1 Now that's a big # Interviewer: #2 a big # 472: fish. It is. Really. Uh one day there was a fellow came down there and colored man and his wife I reckon. He said well let's go and catch us some fish, I said okay and I rent him a boat, no charge him a boat, he had a boat. I charged him so much to put the boat over and it went on over across the river and I noticed the motor went bad and it tied up to one of them ships over there. From behind the ship. And the way up in the day they come out from behind that ship and they were just the boat was just going about and I said wonder what they're doing over and they hollered to me and I had a lot of uh company at that that time and I didn't have enough of that little old motor. I said well they's still in the boat. I got to do this and I went ahead then and after a while they hollered again. And I still didn't get to go so they eventually they had caught a big fish on a rod and reel and uh they come they eventually put them in the boat and they come on back paddling over there and said we told you we was gonna get some fish. We took him out and I took the hook out of his mouth and I said how about weighing this fish? Yeah. And I put him on a scale and he just exactly weighed twenty-five pounds. And caught on a rod and reel. Twenty-five pound yellow cat. Interviewer: I bet he had a good fight on his hands. 472: {X} He did! That's what's carrying that boat about out there Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 with him. # Interviewer: {NW} 472: {NW} But I thought it was safe sitting in the boat you know {X} I didn't. I thought she was gonna paddle over {X} Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And {D: what's the} {X} {NW} Okay. We really had some {X} {NW} We wanted to keep the fish. They're so pretty. No sir said I won't have a lot of pictures made of that fish. {NS} Well that train's gonna knock us out. {X} Seven. It had seven units to it. Interviewer: {X} the train had seven engines? 472: Seven engines going that way. Interviewer: Really? 472: Seven engines. One came by last night going south, had five units I love the railroad but it's a lot of racket yeah. Interviewer: It sure is. 472: Come right in my little window. Interviewer: {NW} 472: Off of my head. Interviewer: {NW} 472: {NW} But I still love the railroad. Interviewer: I used to like it well I still do but especially when I was a lot younger? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: Just sit down there at the station and watch the trains go by. 472: Uh-huh. Yeah. Interviewer: It was a lot of fun? 472: Yeah. Watch the wheels roll. I hope though that I never see a wreck here close by because they have so much uh poison on them in them tanks, you know? Stuff they haul in those tanks, some of it's bad. Interviewer: There's been a lot of trains that derail in Alabama lately. 472: Yeah, there have. Been one or two down in Pensacola {X} But I I believe somebody picked them is where I still believe somebody picked them down there is what I hear. Interviewer: I wonder why anybody would wanna do that. 472: Oh {D: darning} boys, you know I was talking to you the other day when you was here about you was lucky to get by by yourself. Interviewer: {D: But} 472: Why it's not th- all that bad around here but it is from Mobile back y'all on backing up Plenty of towns. And uh {NW} so it's pretty rough around close to here about robbing {D: men} Go in there and robbing them. Interviewer: Even in a town as small as Bay Minette? 472: Yeah. Yeah they doing that here. {X} and then having to catch them around. {D: around} Interviewer: {X} Sad. 472: I had my mother's old wash pots, {D: y'all know in that big old?} Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And uh somebody come along and got hit one night. Interviewer: {NW} 472: Sure did. Interviewer: You didn't get it back? 472: No. Didn't get it back. And uh me and the boy went and checked on him, but we didn't, we went to one of them antique places between here and Mobile and across the way. Well we tried to find him {D: but} it was busted down one side maybe they {D: hoped just to get a good pot} they might've throwed it away, mi- Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: But it was busted one side. I just wouldn't have took pretty for it you know because my mother's old wash pot. And she n- I don't know where she got it. How long did she have it? {D: For a time} I reckon. Interviewer: Over where? 472: All of her life probably she had that wash pot. And I I sure hated that. Well I just prayed for proud faith and asked God to forgive whoever got it, you know? Because we it's gonna come against them judgment day if they don't come and repent. I mean ask for forgive that's what I'm trying to say. Interviewer: Well those wash pots uh pretty rare nowadays, aren't they? 472: Yeah, they are. Uh-huh. Um about fifteen to thirty-five dollars apiece last time I heard. Interviewer: {D: What'd it been for} {X} {NS} 472: Uh {NW} just to put all the clothes in, clean clothes in. And then when they'd kill hogs, cook out the fat that hadn't been in {X} {D: I didn't} fix your wash pot, it'll cook out the fat, you can {D: wash them others.} Interviewer: Well that's good. 472: Yeah. {D: Get to log.} Interviewer: Were all those wash pots about the same size or 472: No they're different {D: course} this is a small one my mother had about that uh I got one big one out there now, what they call a big one. But then they still make them bigger than the one I got. I use that one out there {X} I have my washtubs. Washboard and uh {NW} all I do my washing right out there. Stay at home all the time, I never go to no commu- no laundry mat. Iron my own clothes and Interviewer: You always have that? 472: Yeah, at the house well since I moved here where I'm at I {X} but I've started up again. {C: train passing} I've been through {D: the town} now, buy me another iron. {NS} Interviewer: Is that right? 472: Yeah. {NS} Uh called a steam iron? Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Smart mens getting smart, ain't they? Interviewer: {NW} 472: {NW} Interviewer: Yeah 472: Yeah. Interviewer: I had to do my laundry for a you know when I was away at school. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: I never did enjoy that very much. 472: No. Wa- what bums me, I have to do my cooking and my housework and the yard work and the garden work. How about that? Interviewer: Uh it keeps you busy. 472: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: #1 {D: Somebody says} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # {X} 472: oh you retired? I said that's what they call me Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 but I # said it's I'm just a don't go to work. {NW} Interviewer: Oh me. 472: It's begin to work. Interviewer: #1 {D: You know} # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: a lot of people when when they're when they retired complained about being bored you know. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 Well that's what it is you know. # Well I Now I have to say this too I believe them mostly kind may be uh the not got enough laid away you know and the little to handout to get is appreciate that but they ain't got enough to buy and splurge on you know like uh and they have to stay in. Interviewer: Right. 472: {NW} Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: {NW} 472: Well I'll tell you, if I had to stay in my little house or right here somewhere and not never do nothing I'd just feel like I was in jail all the time. And you know according to the Bible that that's wrong! Of course God I don't uh I don't believe God loves a lazy person. What thou hand tries to do do quickly. That's right. And so uh I'm glad that I found out about the Bible way uh when I did. Sorry that I never found out about it before I did you see. In my old age now I know more how to handle myself by God's holy scriptures. And uh when one or two of us can get together and talk it all over, well that's my heart because we can have one or the other you see. The Bible speaks a lot about your fellow man. We can be good to our fellow man and uh if he does us something wrong, we must pray for him you see. And uh ask God to have mercy and spare him what you will until he repents or whatever he does now you see. And if he just keeps on and dies in his sin well uh he he just don't realize or something or don't want to because he's headed for a burning hell. According to the Bible. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And and it grieves my heart to know that someone's there on that road and won't turn. Won't surrender to the Lord. And do the way the Lord wants them to. So it's it's a a real big blessing to me t- that I found out when I did and repented and turned to the Lord where that I can uh treat my fellow man right. You know the love of God's {D: friend spread it about} in the man's heart will because a multitude of sin within. But then you have something to love your fellow man with. You have the pure love which the Bible talks about. And I believe I can take my Bible and show you three degrees of love uh that the Bible speaks about uh and prove it by the Bible. Uh but ` one but one of them that was working at the they might say and the Samaritan story you know, in the Bible? Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: You remember uh we may talk this a little bit if you don't mind. Interviewer: Go ahead. 472: Uh the Samaritan story. One man come along you know this man beaten down on the road. Almost to death. and one came along and looked at him on one side the Bible said went on. Well he had a little {X} for him and see what it all about and then went on and another come along on the other side and done the same way. He went on. But the third one came along stopped his beast the Bible said uh at least he got down and and examined him and saw he was in need. He took him on his beast and carried him to a what we call a ho- what we call a hospital now. He carried him to a place of safety. And he didn't have I believe the Bible says but a penny. And he paid him to- give him that and told him says go ahead and take care of him and I'll I'll pay the rest when I come back. You know that's great. Boy it just churns my heart to think about it, how sweet that man was to that poor man was beaten. And uh that's what we must do, that's the kinda way we must treat our fellow man. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: To have advantage I mean to um be on God's side. If we can't do something for our fellow man would then we just poor people, we just we just don't do our duty if we don't help our fellow man. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And and and that's the reason why I said I believe I could take my Bible and prove it to you that what what one one of them men had the love of God in his heart enough that uh he done something about it. Uh let's see uh Interviewer: You said you were a Seventh-Day Adventist? 472: Yeah. Seventh-Day Adventist. Interviewer: But you haven't always? 472: No, uh-uh, I've changed up {NW} several times. Interviewer: {NW} Tell me about that. 472: Oh. Wow. That's a good story. Interviewer: {NW} 472: {NW} {NS} Well the first church I ever gone to was a Latter-Day Saint Latter-Day Saint church. Okay, I was {X} I was baptized to it when I was young. And uh my father and mother and all of us we joined those traveling elders it was at that time. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Traveling elders. We called them Mormons. All right. And then I moved from that to Holiness and since they come about and they uh so much trouble and everything you know there's been separating in the Holiness Movement too. Interviewer: I hadn't heard about that. 472: You hadn't. Well all right I can show you right quick. Uh you're looking to different kind of churches of God and they Holiness Movement in many other way. There's several, all kind, don't know them all. But these the main one of the whole shebang is Free Holiness, see? Free Holiness. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: That means a holy lot And uh if you not got if you're not free in the Lord, that's what Free Holiness is all about. Being free in the Lord as we just talked about the story you know. To help our fellow man. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And if you haven't got the Free Holiness in your heart already well th-there ain't no way for you to do good to your neighbor, you know, fellow man. Now uh so I moved from uh the Holiness Movement. I moved twice {D: then it} Because the ones that baptized me in the Holiness Movement I didn't think I had the right kind of baptism. And I didn't. {D: I was} baptized by the wrong person. I needed to be baptized by one higher in the Lord. So I did find one in the Holiness Movement was higher in the Lord. And I was baptized by him again. All right well that was three baptisms right there. When I was a child I was born {X} {D: Or I} twice {X} That's three. Or I've since I've become to find the Seventh-Day Adventist Movement and uh come into that I saw something in there that I didn't have that I needed. {D: Read about} To make {NW} the whole picture I'd call it come out right. And so after I studied the message I uh found out that I was short of that. Okay. And I wanted to be baptized into this movement. And they said well {NW} you wanna you can be you've done been baptized said you you's {X} but I said yeah but that ain't what I look at. I said I found out this movement do keeping all ten of the commandments all the way and I says that's the onliest place I know in the Bible that God wrote with his fingers and I says I would like to uh I would like to be baptized again. But I still wanna be baptized in the creek. And the brothers talked to him, in the end he said water is water! And he says we have a pool here at the church says we can baptize you right here Brother Richardson, put you under the water. And he says that'd be it. I sa- I said okay. And so I was baptized into the movement of this of the uh Seventh-Day Adventists. And I'll have to tell you this, I mean I'd like to Interviewer: Sure. 472: I haven't been to the building, nary a time, at least twenty years I belonged to the {X} But what I'd hadn't had a blessing of the Lord. And the blessing of the Lord came through study of his word. It's one of the most sweetest lessons that I've ever run into in my life. I uh I just can't hardly wait from one sabbath to the other because it's so great. And you get the Bible come to you put to you. In other words I know the life I'm a-living by the uh teacher that we have. And bringing your scriptures. And that helps me there, especially just read them myself. And uh well there's two or three gathered together in his name, if there ain't many with them Oh He's there. The Bible says that and I believe that. All right now then and and I'm happy that I made this movement. And I do not and don't believe that I'll ever find any other thing higher for me to belong to as far as movement on the church which we might say. I don't believe there's nary another one under the sun that I'll ever find any more greater and any more close by uh the powers of God than this movement. Now don't get me wrong, we still in the flesh and blood and subject to backslide. Amen. That's right. And the word teaches me that God is married to the backslider. Amen. All right. Well if he's married to the backslider then you've still got a chance providing {NS} providing you don't sin against the Holy Ghost. To do that you've sinned today. Amen. Interviewer: So these {C: clears throat} when you made these changes from one church to the other it was just a matter of finding something 472: Better. Better. Well I come in by a vision. Woo Praise the Lord. I came in by a vision. I was I was so thrilled when I was with the Free Holiness Movement that I just wanted everything that God had in storehouse for me. It's a load in my heart is {X} {NS} Will God give me a dream and a reason. And I had the vision and I saw a table full of Bibles square table full of brand new Bibles Holy Bibles laying on this table. And as a vision for me somewhat around three years. Every time I meet you or anybody else and talk about salvation and bring it up there was that table full of Bibles right before my eyes. Black Bibles. Well Well that was really something for me, and I was just longing to know what it was all about, see? Or when I met a brother and up here on the street in Bay Minette and his name happened to be uh uh say {X} Interviewer: Do you remember his name? 472: Uh {B} He was {D: may} He come to me one day I mean we met him on the street I did and he commenced talking salvation to me and asked me something about my soul, one thing or another and there was them Bibles/ And you know what? I says you know what? I said the Lord revealed to me that I need a Bible study and get closer to him. Oh! He says. Lee, he says, if that's what you want said you come up to the house and me and the wife and family will give you a Bible study. I said, you will? He said, yes, I will, Lee. And I said, well when can I come? He says, you come at the weekend. I meant the weekend. I said well I'll be up there this weekend then. Come on Sunday night, I believe it was Sunday. And we had a Bible study uh no we didn't have a Bible study to start with. He had some uh tapes. Played he says, now Lee, he says start with uh Mister {B} said start with he says let me play you these tapes, said we've got our message on these tapes. And he says, {D: now why don't we} play them uh these messages says you gonna you're gonna see then and understand when we take the Bible says you gonna find out this is all true. Well, I said, that's a help. Yeah! He says, it's a he- it'll be a help to you. {D: You best} And so he played them tapes about two or three times, I think {NS} at different times, you know. And we'd take the Bible and go in there, me and him would at the kitchen. His kitchen. And we sat down and have a Bible study. And I just loved that. So {NS} he'd bring right around to the points and uh the Bible would talk to me you know out of the Bible and I began to see something or another that I didn't have uh I saw uh rest day coming up which is the seventh sabbath day or the seventh day of the week. But it was coming in on me and I saw the saw it was that. And he says he said, what you s- I said, I see something, he said, what you see Brother {X} Richardson? Uh I said I see two rest days I said, the Bible says there's another rest day {X} What my parents always read about all the time you know. Well they say {X} they didn't know. Help me Lord, and so uh {NW} And he said what you gonna do about that now? I said well all I see to do Brother Wi- uh u- {B} I said I want devil I says I'm gonna keep both days. And I was just as happy as a lark the old saying is. And I come home that night feeling about an hour ahead in my life. And but I couldn't get away from sermons. I didn't see no way, didn't see he said you're coming on back instead of with Mr. Moore. I said I'll be back boy till you say yeah, I said yeah yes sir. Yes sir. Interviewer: {NW} 472: I came back and after a while I saw where there wasn't but one precious rest day but man on earth and not for one man but the whole universe On God's green earth! And it's truth. By the Bible and so I'd rather follow the Bible than man. {NW} So that's where I {D: typed on me} where I'm at. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: I've been happy that I did ever since because it's the truth all the way. There's no way around it. I used to hear them say that it was hear 'em s- in the Free Holiness sang a little song about too high to go over, too low to go on. Too big to go around, you must go in at the door. And I found the door, I believe with all my heart. I found a door. The right door. And I went in. And I been in ever since. It's great, can't hardly talk about it. It's one of the best movements I've ever been in in my life. Now we got, don't get me wrong we got people that's neglected. Me I guess for one of them. I'm not near as close as I need to be to Jesus and I never will be I reckon. {NW} I tell you if I get if I can if I can just make it like {D: Phoenix and Heller} drop it to {X} what is it? Uh transform, transfer then I'd be getting real close to Jesus then. Although I can come to be fully preserved both soul and body, not to become to be perfect, let's call it which is heaven is perfect. I'm on my way and that's all I can tell you. I ain't made it there yet. I'm on my way. I'm doing all I know to do. I'm a-trying to do all I know to do, I say it {D: like that} There's nothing I can do within myself. It's all in the Lord you know. Interviewer: What does uh sabbath mean exactly to a Seventh-Day Adventist? 472: Sabbath. It's the seventh day of the {NS} week. Interviewer: Which is? 472: Which is Saturday. Seventh day of the week. Uh according to the Bible Sunday is the first day of the week. I don't know how many of these darn preachers have told me {X} Yeah, yeah, Sunday is the first day of the week but they're not doing nothing about it. Said or I don't think they are. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: In heart they may be, I don't know your heart. I just know the three-bodied group {D: too bad} Woo! Praise the Lord! And that's all I know. But if you're treating your fellow man right and you doing what you know to do good then I can see your fruit without that {X} That's right. Interviewer: Did you always go to church pretty regularly even when you were real young? 472: Uh yeah, my parents had always taught me to go to uh church. They never went much, we never had lived close to there, close to churches all our life yeah it was got a big yard. And more more we got it big enough, more we could see and know things and they'd carry us to mostly to Sunday school and I learned Sunday school and I loved Sunday school {X} Because that's where I gather, {D: that driver's grown} and become to be a Christian. I'd gather more out of Sunday school than I would I'm preaching, I still gather more out of the sabbath school in our church now than I do really the preacher Mostly it's good, mainly good. But I I've still gathered more out of that sabbath school. And I just love Sunday school, I'm gonna teach these other churches, I do I'm {D: the best teacher in} this big church up here especially. Bay Minette? Interviewer: Which was is that? 472: Uh Baptist. Baptist church. Well I call it the big church you know, it's a big it is more members there than anywhere I know of. {D: this way} Interviewer: How many people belong to the Seventh-Day Adventists in town? 472: In town? Interviewer: Yes. 472: Well I would might say just about a handful. Just about twenty. {NS} Uh between twenty and twenty-five, maybe. Interviewer: Do you have your own church building? 472: Yeah. Yes sir. Right up there on Stone Street If you're ever around here on the sabbath about quarter-till-ten, you ought to come up. {D: Settlers} Interviewer: I'd like to. You say you have some sort of preparation time uh you were telling me about last week? On a Friday? 472: Yeah. Preparation Day, that's our according to the Bible that's Preparation Day. Interviewer: Everybody does that. 472: We get ready. For the sundown. Especially I I might work 'til twelve oh clock. And then I I um I wanna knock off then and go make the preparations for them. Come sundown. Because we believe with all our heart sabbath starts on sundown right here. {C: exterior speech} Right in {NS} uh we go then uh doing our choices in the Lord {NS} until {C: exterior audio} {X} I just wanna {NS} Interviewer: Were both of your um parents uh uh Mormon? 472: Mormons, yeah. Interviewer: {D: Okay} That's interesting. Let's se- did you go uh to a a little country school in Stockton or whereabouts did you go to school when you were growing up? 472: Well we called it what it wa- it was a it was a pretty big school. Had three teachers at that time. Oh had three tu- teachers. Two men teachers, one woman teacher. {X} the woman teacher, her name was uh uh Mrs. uh {B} {NW} Interviewer: Yes sir. {NS} 472: That was her name. She sure was a good one. She didn't have but one eye but bless her heart, she could see things going on. Interviewer: {NW} 472: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 472: Kept those old boys straight, you know? Interviewer: #1 She # 472: #2 yeah # Interviewer: didn't have much trouble with you, did she? 472: Well not a {D: great deal} Well I've been kind of a quiet fellow all of my life. But I hadn't ever you know I just hadn't ever repented to the Lord like I needed to. A moral life won't tell you that to how good you try to be within yourself. {C: exterior speech} {X} it holds thick so not to be {X} {NS} And uh you go with a proper heart. You go with a mind to find me a man out there on the street. I don't condemn that man even if he's staggering of whiskey and I won't condemn him. Uh-uh, I love him. And I could make him love him harder. And then I uh {NS} {NS} I do my best to appease anywhere I said he is mine and it won't be long before I have something coming to him that he needs to know about, you see. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: I have the Bible, I have bring bring up some words it'll be he'll be pleased with {X} God's Spirit, that's the way it is. You don't slam nothing in your face that tell you you's going to hell or I didn't know where to do it {X} and if you if you got God's love, you won't do that. I ain't sure {NS} I have heard of them just you're on your way to hell. All it is. But if you're just be calm and wait on the Lord. He'll {X} speak to the man, woman, girl, or boy, whoever you're talking to. Sure will. {NS} Interviewer: How far along were you able to get in school? 472: Third grade. Um just about finished up the third grade. I have enough education that I can read my Bible and some in newspapers and almanacs. And uh if I get all {X} bus to get way off where I couldn't get back, I could {NS} I could write in in a enough good enough in a letter to let you know. Send me some money or come get me. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: I could do that, you see. And I appreciate that. I can write a letter and I appreciate that. Interviewer: Did you have to stop school to help out with your parents work #1 or something like that? # 472: #2 {NW} # We just never did live close enough to school for us to go to. Interviewer: I see. 472: Back way back in the country. Almost all the time. And uh so we moved up at Stockton and we come to Stockton school from over in there and then we all lived there too. We went to one or two more of them schools but never did learn {X} His tire got on the road you see. And then we come to Stockton {D: but we learnt} most {X} Interviewer: I see. 472: By that schedule. Interviewer: You were telling me last week about this senior citizens group you're in? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: What is that exactly? Is that uh 472: #1 It's a kind # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 472: of a club! Interviewer: Do you have a name? 472: Oh yeah? uh it's it's just called Senior Citizen Club and uh it's just a movement of people um and we have donations to us, well since there's a bus And we have a bus to ride on. They furnished our bus to ride on. And it's all free. And uh they pay in so much to stay in the club. Now our expense a month is only fifty cents apiece. Interviewer: That's not bad at all. 472: {NW} Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: I think I could afford that. 472: Yeah. Alright well now I told him to te- to not to tell you this but there ain't nobody hardly but what hands them a dollar once a month. And from that on up {X} {X} Alright? And I heard the leader say this past time that we must watch out, we was getting about twenty-five or thirty dollars ahead and we were gonna take this here money {NW} and we gonna go to the uh to the offering home. Interviewer: To the what? 472: To the offering homes? Uh homes that's in need Interviewer: #1 Right. # 472: #2 you know? # Uh veterans? We go there. And uh trips there. And we take this money overplus and we buy a uh stuff for them. Whatever we think they need. And the ladies are leading by uh some clothes for some of the folks that need if they find it out. And you know they do that. Uh well anyhow we spend this money to the glory of God, we call that the glory of God and it is. To help our fellow man. And the leader spoke to us last time that we needed to do something about that, I thought that was so great. Anyway have twenty-something twenty-three in our club this time. Now that's a bunch of Interviewer: #1 {X} # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: enjoy that? 472: Oh lord, yeah and it's just a clean {X} {NS} that's uh let's see a a Latter-Day Saint church. It is just tremendous, I go up there to meetings. I hadn't been up there though in a good while but I'm going to go back up there hear them talk some too. Interviewer: Have you ever been in in any other kind of club besides this one? 472: No. This is the only club I've ever gone to. It- it's called a club, yeah. {X} a club, only one I ever want to gone to so far. As I know about of course I find out about the Bible too much i- society's not good and of course I've learned Jesus's way and I'd rather not get into too much of society. All I go for this is because I get to travel. And look at God's nature. And see the great waters {D: wriggling} off to the gul -gulf. Interviewer: To where? 472: We go a lots down to the Gulf. We're going down to uh Boat Walton Beach this next trip. Interviewer: Oh really? 472: This coming this coming Tuesday week we'll be on another trip. We'll be going down to Boat Walton Beach, as far as we know. Interviewer: That oughta be fun. 472: It will. Interviewer: Have you been there before? 472: Yeah. One time. I always wanted to go back. To see the sights and {X} You've been down there? Interviewer: Uh it's been a long time. Yeah I've been down there before. You like the beaches and all? 472: Oh yeah. That's {X} The great water. {X} on the waters the Bible says and it will return.