472: Yeah we traveled lots and um but when we hit the old saying is when we hit the ground we uh pull out for some of them museums to see. Interviewer: Right. 472: Yeah. I walk the beach sometime I walk the beach. Interviewer: That's nice. 472: Yeah just man bog up in that sand some of the Interviewer: {NW} 472: folks oh I'm gonna leave my shoes at the bus. Didn't get the sand in 'em you know. {X} oh we just have a ball. {NW} See when I Interviewer: Well have you ever in your lifetime have you ever traveled around very much or have you stayed 472: Never have. Always just round you might say Bay Minette and Stockton. Course I've been out a pretty good piece but I haven't even been to New Orleans yet but I've been uh to Mississippi all up and down Mississippi. Interviewer: Is that the state or the river? 472: It's the river. Interviewer: So you were on a 472: #1 on this # Interviewer: #2 {X} # for work or 472: No we traveled on this bus. Interviewer: Oh I see. 472: We'd take the uh trips over there and uh go to them places that uh {NS} them big eating places {X} and enjoy seeing a lot of people and uh being with 'em {D: and} and the rest {X} Interviewer: {X} How many uh have you ever how many states would you say you've been in? Or which states have you been in besides Alabama? 472: I've never been out of Alabama. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 472: #2 Well # in Mississippi. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 472: #2 The State of # Mississippi. That's the only one that I remember. The State of Florida yeah. Interviewer: You've been in Florida? Florida Mississippi and Alabama. That's the only place. I've never traveled {X} Have you ever been to any of the the bigger cities in any of those states? 472: {X} uh no. Uh Montgomery. I've been to Montgomery and around and I've been to uh Pensacola Mobile and I hadn't never been to New Orleans yet. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 472: We had a lot of folks from New Orleans to visit us this weekend. Interviewer: Oh really? 472: This {X} Interviewer: Oh I see. 472: And we just enjoy 'em hear 'em talk about New Orleans. Uh they say it's pretty good sight to go over there sightseeing. Other words we call ourselves sightseeing you know Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: when we leave out. And that's mostly what it is and we get to enjoy seeing different things God has created you know? Down on the beach even we find out that there's uh what they call beach rice down there. Interviewer: #1 Beach # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: rice? 472: Beach rice. Interviewer: I've never heard of that what does that look like? 472: It's a {D: tossle} thing hangs down grows on that sand. A {D: tossle} thing well it's got it's got uh goodies in it. uh for the birds and animals. {X} And uh I got a leaf {X} what the house. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 472: And they don't they forbid you to bother this Say I don't know how the people got a hold to this that gave this to me. But they forbid you to strictly against the la Interviewer: Huh. 472: to bother these things. You know. {X} So uh I did have to get hold to this. And um so we see that and we see a lots of things that new to our eyes I have a bean over there to the house about that big around. It looks just like a lima bean. Or it looks like a butter bean. It's growed like it and it grows down there in Florida below Pensacola down Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: on the beach that's where I got it. One of the {X} and I already got a bunch of 'em. Anybody that ever s- anybody that sees it wants it. Interviewer: {NW} 472: And if I had any {X} I could've planted that thing and the raised any out here on the land you better believe I would have. It's a beautiful bean. Interviewer: Huh. 472: Big as a it's big as a fifty-cent piece I reckon. Interviewer: Really? 472: Yeah {X} Interviewer: What kind of what kind of uh beans do you grow around here? 472: Oh we just grow uh bunch of beans {NW} and uh {NS} running beans {NS} well we have a running butter bean we have a running bunch uh butter bean and a bunch of other beans. We have both of them. And we have bunch of beans and running bunch of beans. Interviewer: {D: Right.} 472: Four different kinds {C: background speech} Interviewer: Did you ever just sit on the porch with a great big uh pan of 'em and have to those butter beans? 472: You should have been here in the first third a part of the summer Well we have shelled butter beans on this porch and let me tell you something about this {X} with a bu- butter bean. Not only butter beans but peas and all kind of vegetables you might say and we have some good friends here that owns a market. Uh me produce in other words they peddle vegetables. And these vegetables some of 'em just bruise such as peaches and pears or apples or whatever they have and uh they hate to throw away the good ones parts of 'em away. They'd bring 'em here and dump 'em on this porch. And me and the ladies takes care of 'em and other people would call and they'd come and help us to buy 'em and don't throw anything away that's worth that can be eaten. And so that's the way we had all this porch it's it's it's a wonderful place for that you know. Interviewer: Yeah I like front porches a lot of these newer houses don't have 'em. 472: No that's right. It's sorta like some of the cars you don't step up on the fender you just step {NW} Interviewer: {NW} 472: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # You sure don't. {NW} {NW} 472: {NW} That's right. Interviewer: {NW} 472: Woo Modern days with these let's see modern days with Interviewer: What else do people around here grow in their gardens beside beans? 472: They grow corn and uh pumpkins. You should've seen the pumpkins that I raised two years ago I believe it is. I raised two pumpkins and they come down from the um um printing office. New Orleans Times come down and take pictures. {NS} Of me and the pumpkins Interviewer: Had some pretty good ones did you? 472: Well yeah! I raised two special One of 'em weighed fifty-six. Interviewer: Goodness gracious. 472: And the other one weighs I believe sixty something pound. Interviewer: {NW} 472: I mean they was whopping. They was big ones I couldn't pick 'em up. Interviewer: When they get that big are they still good to eat? 472: Oh yeah Yeah you can I I took 'em out there and butchered 'em on that table. Uh-huh. Took me a saw. Sawed 'em open. Interviewer: {NW} Is that what it'd take? 472: Yeah I sawed 'em open and sawed 'em up where the ladies could get 'em. {X} I still got some of the seed down there Interviewer: Oh. 472: {NS} {X} Interviewer: So you grow beans and corn and pumpkins anything else? 472: Yeah. Gourds we grow we have a gourd family there too. {X} We raised some gourds out- outside. Interviewer: That's not exactly the same as squash is it? 472: No. A gourd is something other just for the birds Uh and get a bird mess. {X} and make dippers out of 'em. You can make dippers out of 'em. People used to use 'em for dippers back yonder way back yonder. And I I have one over at the house or two and it sure is useful. Interviewer: Do you ever grow squash? 472: Squash? Yeah We growed 'em this year. Grow squash. Mushmelons. {NS} And uh cucumbers. {NS} {X} {NS} Grow cucumbers. Most anything. Fit's the line it can grow in the garden. I don't know of anything that won't make {X} and the vegetables. Almost everything will make it. Interviewer: Do you grow any other kind of melon besides mushmelon? 472: No. No I don't think we do. Interviewer: You don't have any watermelon? A a water- watermelons and mushmelons yeah. {NS} Watermelons and mushmelons what we grow. {NS} Is the mushmelon the same thing as a cantaloupe? 472: No. They're different. A cantaloupe is I believe it's {D: male stone} {X} Mushmelon. Mostly they taste good. I like them more than mushmelons Interviewer: {NS} What about tomatoes you grow those? {NS} 472: {X} {NS} {NS} and we don't even have to do that now. The ladies sell them tomatoes they have fruit got to do the other fruit. And they bring here and let us can 'em or make juice out of 'em. Interviewer: You ever seen any type of tomato growing around here the {X} 472: Tommy toes. Interviewer: Right. 472: Yeah. Yeah we we can grow them too. {X} You know I think a tommy toe tomato is made from uh a big tomato. I think it's more or less the like you pulled it seed out yonder and it grows in the trash? Comes up if it don't make a tommy toe that year. If that seed stays there the third year you got a tommy toe to bush. A tommy toe tomato bush now I believe that's the way the tommy toes gets here Interviewer: I see. 472: Uh-huh. Interviewer: I see. {NS} 472: And that's that's where the tommy toes tomato comes from. And you know I learned uh there's two different kinds of them tommy toes. Some of 'em's a little bitty round one and some of 'em's a little long one like a pear shape. Interviewer: Oh. 472: Yeah Interviewer: I hadn't seen that one. 472: Yeah. That's wh- {X} They good too. Yeah. I've saw 'em like that. Pear-shaped. {NS} Interviewer: Do people grow these little red hard hot tasting vegetables uh 472: Peppers Interviewer: Peppers 472: Woo {NW) Yeah Yeah Interviewer: You like to eat those? 472: No. Interviewer: {NW} 472: Um I d- I take 'em out put 'em in vinegar I mean the long pods I got some in vinegar. And use the vinegar. My beans these collards and uh {X} Interviewer: I see. 472: {X} Interviewer: What about a radish? Do they grow around here? 472: Yeah radishes. I can't think all of them vegetables we can grow. {X} Turnips and mustard {NW} {NW} Collards. {NS} That's the main thing. Turnips mustards and collards in the green line Interviewer: All those are different? 472: And I raised some spinach this year. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: I raised some spinach. See what it's all about you know? {NS} {X} Interviewer: What about uh okra? 472: Yeah. Made okra. {X} We got a beautiful row out there now. Interviewer: Of what? 472: Beautiful row of okra out there now. Interviewer: Oh I see. {X} have any luck with uh leafy vegetables? 472: Yeah we do. We have nice {X} leafy vegetables. Interviewer: What are you able to grow? 472: Well we we grow mustard and collards, and turnips, {NS} and lettuce. And uh spinach. And you know carrots go in the root part with 'em Interviewer: What 472: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 about # 472: rutabagas. Interviewer: Right. Any cabbage? 472: Ca- yeah cabbage. I can't think of all that. Cabbage. Interviewer: Well you y'all just grow a lotta stuff don't you? 472: Yeah we grow a lot. Now I reckon you might like for me to set a seal on my part of that growing. I'm an organic man. Interviewer: Oh. 472: Yeah. Organic. Interviewer: What does that mean exactly? 472: It means there's no poison damage No commercial. Interviewer: You don't use fertilizer? 472: Not too much. And uh {NS} {NW} and organic means {NS} away from all {X} {NS} {X} {NS} A barnyard it was just a barnyard. Sheep. {X} {NS} chickens also. {NS} {D: there} {NS} And I been lucky to do that up 'til this year. I didn't have much stuff this year about getting barn uh {NS} {X} But I used cotton seed {X} it leaves more and a little barnyard I had this year but not much. Just a little. I'd rather have more if I can get it Interviewer: Yes sir. Well if you u- you don't spray or anything like that? 472: Very little if any. I use uh oak ashes. Or dogwood ashes. Or to keep the pests off. {NS} Interviewer: Those ashes will keep 'em away? 472: Yeah. You know lye and oak ashes. You can't put much on {X} Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Uh early in the morning when the dew's on and you put this on there to keep the bugs away. And you put just have to learn how to put just a small amount and watch the vegetables when it grows. I just {NS} put {NS} my vegetables out early so the won't bugs won't pester 'em. My early vegetables. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And that helps too you know. Interviewer: Right. I see. Well where abouts uh was your father born? Was he born up in that same area? 472: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and uh in old Quincy they call it. Interviewer: Quincy? 472: Yeah. Quincy. Interviewer: Is that a little community? 472: Yeah. Yeah it's a community. Interviewer: Is that close to Stockton? 472: Yeah. Just a little piece out from Stockton, not that far. {NS} Close to Quincy. Interviewer: Just a few miles away I guess? 472: Right. Interviewer: Was uh were you born in Quincy or Stockton? 472: I was born in Stockton. In an old field right up there just to the right of the highway above Stockton. Nineteen three. Interviewer: Beg your pardon? 472: Nineteen three. Interviewer: I see. What about your mother where was she from? 472: She was born in Conecuh County. {X} right up uh beside girl she come to Borden She she she uh {NS} didn't live and die here she lived and and died in a hospital. {X} up in uh now let's see {X} I don't know what county. Monroe I reckon. She died in a hospital up there. {NS} And um but she was born in Conecuh County but she come to this county after she was born. Interviewer: I see. 472: {X} Interviewer: Was your mother a housewife? 472: {X} and my mother was a nurse uh {NS} Interviewer: She was a what? {NS} 472: A nurse.{D: Granny}nurse. {NS} Interviewer: Oh is that right? 472: Yeah. She was a granny nurse. Interviewer: What does that mean? 472: That means uh take the babies instead of a doctor. That old {X} And had uh have a granny woman to do these things. And that's what she did. And her stepmother was a granny wife too. Stepmother. Interviewer: Is a granny woman the same thing as a midwife? 472: Well that's what I'm trying to say. Uh-huh. Yeah. Midwife. Interviewer: I see. 472: Yeah. Midwife yeah. I didn't understand I had forgotten that term. Yeah. Interviewer: Do you do you still find people like that now a days? Do they still have midwives? 472: You don't hear of 'em no more. Unless it's a case of emergency something you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 472: That they have to do then. I don't fi- I reckon a doctor wouldn't allow 'em now. {NS} They've got everything else {X} {NS} Interviewer: Right. 472: They come to the doctor. {NS} Now I we'll have to go back down to get on the foundation {X} {NS} according to the Bible. We'll ask about Jesus' days. Jesus at twelve years old he was found {NS} talking to the doctors and the lawyers. Watching things. Ever since that Jesus turned the table of mo- moneychangers over and done away with all of this stuff worldly {NS} {NW} ever since then I noticed the doctors and the lawyers uh working on people more than any other people around because they're praying down to the point where that you don't go to no other place but them for protection or for um advice. See? And they've gotta charge if they do this {NW} and it's got to where it seems to me like it's tremendous. Too much. Or bless they're hearts. So that's where all this come from and and in talking to the doctors and the lawyer Well back there are these midwives and grannies uh sorta will drop backs see about the engines. Back in they tribes you know when they was to have a baby the women? They'd go get behind a big log or something and have the child. And I don't know how they handled the other situation. Used to handle it themselves. Maybe they had midwives I don't know. But anyhow pretty quick she'd put the little baby in a papoose they'd call it. Put it on the back and took off. {X} No doctors to tell you what to do. But back there they was to help the people. They were very much help. Seems as they'd might've been in your category {NS} seen like you have.` {X} {NS} Interviewer: {NW} 472: Amen. Amen. Most no uh stain or uh at least it wasn't too much of stain of sin. {NS} {X} {NS} And the bodies were very much more help than they ought to be. And so they can do these things they had to do these things. But nevertheless it's come on down to the doctors and lawyers now. Reason why I mentioned that story. And uh it's got got us all pinned up. {NS} And we don't have much more freedom to ourselves and we don't have we always seem like we gotta go and {NS} see a doctor then too you know? {NS} Try to do something for ourselves. {NS} They's some of us me for one {NS} that's got little petty things I can use. Little chemicals and things that I can use. {NS} And uh {NS} mostly it might have a bad skin or something on my hand I can use just pure waters I can get hold to 'em. And wash it real good. And sometime I use a band-aid. Hardly ever unless it's a very bad cut. I let it get well itself. And a few seconds after this skin has happened after the wound has happened to the flesh however whatever it might be I learned if w- wash it out and put it back as quick as possible uh it'll start to heal. In a few seconds it'll start to heal. And if something or other happens you stack a m- something or other and tear this loose you can see the strands of meat that's already healed back. {NS} So if we nurse this and keep it 'til it gets really healed uh it'll just grow right up Interviewer: Did people used to use different kinds of roots or something for homemade medicine? 472: Yeah they used uh herbs from the woods. Uh-huh. Yeah my father had some herbs that he used from the woods. Even for cramping {X} it was called uh buck root. And it was really good. And then he had a remedy him and mother that they used for gravel. Used for gravel. You know that one's for gravel? It was old wild wild grass that grows tall as he- um horse mane or horse tail. Grows up old wild grass and you can dig that up and boil it. Make a tea and drink it for the gravel and just it's a short time your gravel's gone You can pass your water right on then. What it is it works on the power stone well I reckon. It just {X} {NS} Then they have a little blue weed that came up that they use for uh uh fevers Interviewer: {X} {NS} 472: Sick stomach {X} Make a key outta that. It's a little blue flower that grows and s- and they have one they call yellow root. that you can go down beside these high {D: bluff} branches at the creeks. And you find it growing on the in the woods. You gather this yellow root and bind it in little balls and bring it home. And you can have a sore mouth your mouth gets sore take a little piece of that yellow root put it in your mouth and chew it and while all that's {D: pittle} in that soil in the soil. {X} and it'll cure it. {D: Yeah} {X} And you can use it for a key but I don't know what they use that for a {X} but I don't remember. Key. {NS} But {NS} the yellow root's good for sore mouth. {NS} Interviewer: Is sassafras good for anything? 472: Sassafras {X} well there's two kinds there ain't but one kind that you can use to make tea out. Drink. It's just a beverage that you can use in your in your home. At your mealtimes and at your {X} mighty fine {X} sassafras tea. It grows in old fields and stuff. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Places like that. And there's a white kind and a brown a red kind. One kind of it you use and the other kind you don't use. {X} {NW} Interviewer: Is there something like that called mullein or 472: Well I was coming up with a mullein before you said about that but I forgot about it. Interviewer: {X} 472: Yeah there's a mullein. We growing mullein here now I saw some mullein out there yesterday. Uh we grow you can take this mullein and make a poultice to go on wounds. And I don't remember what else that they could use the mullein for but I think they made a tea out of it too. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: But I know they used it for poultice on the wounds. And then back in the Bible time they used fig tree leaves for poultices {NS} Is that right? Interviewer: Yeah. They make poultices out of back then Jesus did. He made poultices {X} Oh I see. You know that's interesting. I don't guess that's done much anymore now 472: No. It's all passed by. {X} Interviewer: Did your parents get to go to school very much themselves? 472: N- um no Uh-uh. They didn't get to go to school very much. It's all now. They could both read and write. They could both {X} read and write. Interviewer: Maybe about same as what you have 472: Yeah. Interviewer: {X} 472: Maybe. I think. my momma went to the fifth grade I ain't sure. Interviewer: Did you know your grandparents? 472: Yeah Grandpa Richardson. Yeah. Yeah I knowed old Grandaddy Richardson. By old man he he was a little tardy every now and then though. I remember that. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: {NW} Yeah. {NW} Interviewer: Make you feel a little better? 472: Oh! {NW} Yeah I reckon it would. Interviewer: {NW} 472: {NW} {NW} So uh Interviewer: What kind of business was he in? 472: He was in the uh wood business in the in the woods. He worked in the {X} most of his life too. But he had a pretty good farm. {NS} Grandaddy Richardson did. {NS} He raised stock and he raised uh a lot of hogs. And he also he had a dug well at his home. I remember he had a dug well at his home and he used water out of his dug well. Draw it by buckets. {X} {X} Interviewer: Used what? 472: Water. Yo- you pull the water out the well. He had a dug well. Four-cornered dug well. Interviewer: And he put it in when did you say he put it in? 472: he he draw it out with a uh wooden buckets. Interviewer: Alright. 472: kegs Interviewer: I see. 472: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: Whereabouts was he born? 472: He was. let's see I don't know I don't know where grandaddy was born. Must have been in Baldwin County {X} had to believe. Far as I know. {X} Interviewer: Baldwin County? How about his wife did you know your grandmother? 472: Yeah. Grandma Richardson. She was she was um uh she was a {B} before she married grandaddy. Sh- {B} {NS} Interviewer: Was she from Baldwin County too? 472: Yeah. Yeah. She was raised down there {X} akin to old Quincy. Interviewer: Quincy. 472: Grand old Quincy. Interviewer: I guess well how many brothers and sisters did your father have? 472: I let's see eight I believe. Interviewer: Pretty big family. 472: Yeah really. Sure was. Interviewer: I guess she was a housewife with all those children. 472: Right? Grandma was. She raised a good thing. Interviewer: Well did you know your other grandparents? 472: Well grandpa {B} Now he traveled {X} my grandaddy did. In uh- in a ox wagon {NW} {X} Interviewer: #1 {X} # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: God's way 472: He went a way down in uh {X} Florida way down in there with that ox wagon. Interviewer: What what did he go down there for? 472: Just went down there and {X} I mean stayed for a long time I don't know how long he stayed there. But he soon come back. Come back. He had a big family too. He had about eight or nine younger brothers {NW} Interviewer: {NW} 472: {X} Interviewer: Had big families back then didn't they? 472: Uh-huh. Interviewer: Do you know where he was born? 472: It was up in Conecuh I believe. Interviewer: Conecuh {X} 472: Conecuh County {NW} Interviewer: What did he do for his living? He mostly worked uh uh on ditches. Now the ditches I'm talking about is ditches to uh broke logs down. Oh. 472: To a mill pond. Uh he stayed in Pensacola Florida a long time. And they had a ditch coming through there going into a mill dam and he worked on that ditch {X} I think. On that one then Let's see there was one here in Baldwin he worked on a whole lot too. Broke those logs down {NS} to a mill Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: the mill pond for the saw mill to cut 'em. Interviewer: He was in the logging business? 472: The logging business. {X} Yeah. Interviewer: Did you know his wife? Your grandmother? 472: Yeah. She was a student {X} no the first ma- my mother's see this {NS} he married twice and this here last wife he lived with was my mother's stepmother. {NW} Uh but my mother's mother the first her mother was uh {B} Sh- she wa- {B} my mother's cousin or and last her stepmother was {B} Interviewer: Was your grandmother on your mother's side from Conecuh County too you suppose? Born there? 472: Uh-huh. {NS} Interviewer: You said they had a big family too huh? 472: Yeah. Pretty good size I believe. Uh grandaddy {X} Yeah. Well wait let's see had four children. Interviewer: I guess she was a housewife too? 472: Yeah. Interviewer: Did you ever hear your grandparents talk about their schooling whether they were able to go very much? 472: No never did tell me. I don't remember about their school. No. I don't remember. Interviewer: Do you know if they could read and write okay or 472: Well I don't kn- yeah! My uh grandmother on uh my momma's side sh- she um she could do good I think. As far as I know now she sh- sh- done good writing Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: had a pretty good education I think. Interviewer: But you're not sure about the other one? 472: No I ain't sure about them. I I couldn't say. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: But true I like to try to have everything as much in the truth as I can. Interviewer: Sure. {NW} 472: Yeah. Interviewer: Where you ever married Mr Richards? 472: {NW} Yeah! {NW} {NW} But a bachelor now. {X} Interviewer: Where was your wife born? 472: Baldwin County. {X} {NS} what they call Hall's Fork between here and Atmore She was born I suppose. As far as I know. That's where I found her at anyway. Interviewer: {NW} {NS} Did y'all go to the same church? {NS} {NS} 472: At the time yeah. Interviewer: Was that uh uh Mormon? 472: No. Uh no um sh- they they were Baptists. Interviewer: Oh. She was a Baptist? 472: Yes she was a Baptist. Interviewer: I see. 472: But I been to her church longer. Interviewer: How old was she when she passed away? 472: She didn't passed away. Interviewer: Oh. I'm sorry. 472: No. She still living. Interviewer: Do you have any idea how old she is? 472: I wou- let's see I was I was seven years old now you can you can put it I was seven year she was I was seven years older than she was when we mar- Interviewer: Oh I see does that make her about 472: Twenty-six. Interviewer: Yeah. 472: Married at twenty-six. I was I was seven years older {NS} than she was when we married. Let's see now. {X} That takes Interviewer: She's about sixty-seven now? {X} 472: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. {NS} She's Interviewer: How much schooling did she have do you know? 472: She was pretty good. Interviewer: Really? 472: {NW} She had about let's see I suppose about sixth or seventh grade. I I reckon. She can read and write real good I think. Interviewer: What about the house that you grew up in Mr {B} can you tell me a little bit like about what it was like? 472: Had to move about too much. Interviewer: Oh really? 472: {NW} {NS} {NS} I don't remember too much about it you see. {X} let's see but he always moved to places and then stayed four or five six and seven years at one place. {X} {NS} {NW} Other words the first thing I remember really about was that little house in old Quincy. {X} We stayed there s- for a good while. I don't know how many years but we stayed at that one a good while. Just a little old {NS} house built with uh kitchen on the side. {X} s- Interviewer: The kitchen was away from the house? 472: No. It was joined to it. Or built into it. {NS} Kitchen and dining room was all together. It was cook on one end and eat in the other one. Interviewer: {X} What were the what were the other rooms that you had? 472: Well we just had one real big bedroom right there. That's as much as I can remember. {X} I remember them. Momma had a s- we just cleaned her floors with a big scrub mop with shucks in it. A piece of wood board with holes in it put your shucks in and had a handle in it. Put a handle in it. And that's what she cleaned her floors with. Interviewer: With those corn shucks? 472: With the corn shucks just stuff 'em in there and she twisted 'em up in them holes put a lot of 'em in there and it would be solid. {X} the bottom a that basket {X} satchel but {NS} it was really s- {X} would scar them floors I mean just {X} dirt and grease oil She used old uh th stuff she used to clean with was g- uh washing powder. Uh grandma dust. Um Interviewer: Grandma dust. 472: Yeah. Grandma dust that's what they called it. Interviewer: {NW} 472: And uh she threw that on the floor and used sand Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 472: That stuff had to move. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 472: And all you had to have was a muscle Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 472: to do that scrubbing. {NS} Interviewer: And she raked her floors and take her corn in a sack. Put under her foot and drag on that floor and dry it. {X} {NS} After she did that {NS} {X} it would smell good. Old powder s- {X} and nice {X} it'd be nice and clean. 472: So the house had you said it was just one big bedroom Interviewer: #1 plus the # 472: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: kitchen and dining rooms? 472: Yeah. That's right. And most of 'em we lived in was like that. Uh we got to where {X} can have a little bit a Christmas. A long time {X} {X} {NS} Uh she liked the man quit building the houses and the porch you see. Will work for it. {NS} They'd always {X} Low key {X} Folks know how to work. {X} So {NW} they'd rent houses rent places for us the man we worked for in the latter days when the {X} you know coming down outgrown. Got to where we could rent places so they would {X} and let us live in the big house have more room And that's the way we growed up. S- {NS} Where we at now. Interviewer: How long have you been in your house over there? 472: This little house on the end trailer combined? Uh six years. they've had it six years I believe. I've got the date down on {X} Interviewer: Has that always been there or did you build it? 472: {NW} Yeah it was there when I come here. Uh you know the man who owned who lived in that little house was retarded fellows from the railroad you see? And they lived there on this man's place he was living at the time Mr Beasley And they first lived right there where I got that little old house on a piece of cement. And it wasn't big enough it was too close and it moved out there in the corner and it's been there ever since. I don't know how long. {X} Yeah Uh but that somber little {C: clears throat} house with a rusty top on it. The other one the other side I lived in it three years. And taking care of my father here in town with my sister and uh until he died and then I was going back to the river. On the river now I got a little I had a little shack up there. And I was going back {NS} little shack on the river bank {NS} but uh these people found out I was a gardener and they asked me would I be con- contented uh without an- would I like to move in this little house. I looked at my wife I said yeah I will. {X} made up my mind I said I will. And so they cleaned it up. Me and 'em together. And I I done moved some of my things back to Stockton. But I came back and uh went up I I after I deciding I was going to live here then I put the other furniture in here and went up there and got the rest of that and brought it back put it in there and I been living there in there ever since. This little house. Interviewer: Do- does that have uh is it how many rooms does it have? 472: Well just one room and uh kitchen and a {NW} s- cook and eat in the same room. And then there's a little old bitty room in the back. {X} {NS} In the back. {NS} {X} {NW} {NS} Interviewer: Got plenty of shade over there anyway. 472: {NW} Yeah. Nothing short of the shade. Interviewer: {NW} 472: That's right. Interviewer: That's a mighty big tree. 472: They are hu- {X} awful large I'd like to know the age of 'em myself. I wonder why they had to stoop over like that such a beautiful trees. Interviewer: I don't believe I've ever seen one bent as much as that one right there. 472: Nah Interviewer: It's really bent over. 472: And you know they'll they'll I've seen 'em and they'll basically they'll come clean to the ground. Those limbs will brush the ground. {X} one up yonder on the bank. There's one of the limbs scraping the ground there just about it I'm fixing to cut it off. Trim up so it'll look better. {X} Interviewer: I see. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: In that house that you grew up in did y'all use a fireplace? 472: Yeah. And a and the fireplace was a stick and dirt chimney. Interviewer: It was a what? 472: Stick and dirt chimney. Interviewer: What is that? 472: It's a chimney and fireplace you were on about. It's a home ba- built by hand you see? {C: addressing another speaker} Is there something we can do for you? {NS} {C: auxiliary speaker} Yeah. Interviewer: So your father built that himself? 472: Yeah. He built the chimney himself. Yeah. {C: sound of vehicle in background} He built the chimney himself. {NS} stick and dirt chimney they call it. He's built several of them chimneys in our buildings they was built for us to {NS} He used to build several chimneys like that. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: He was you know call 'em stick and dirt that's what it is. They dig a hole and put clay in it it's with clay and cut up a lotta pine straw in that hole and make the mud up with water make up the dirt and they uh cut the sticks as long as they want or as wide as they want the chimney {NS} and they start to building 'em they take this mud and ball it up and put it on these sticks. And lay another one on top of that one you know? And lay 'em up like that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm I see. 472: Stick and dirt chimney all the way to the top of the house yeah. We would run them other fires and uh you got to be careful when you build a fire you know not to put much heat down there Burnt your sticks out the chimney'd fall down. Interviewer: Right. That would be bad. {NW} 472: Going well uh anyway Interviewer: {NW} 472: and if you don't mind your red coal you'll put on too much wood at a time. Interviewer: mm-hmm. {NS} 472: And you got to be careful Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Could you tell me how you build a fire in the in a fireplace? 472: Yeah. We take some I call 'em tire spanners were plenty of wood then you know. Go out there and cut you some good splinters and strike a match and stick to this start your pot and lay your wood on it. Now back yonder ago before then they had to use rocks. Flint rocks. {NS} And knock a fire out of the flint rock on the cotton. S- s- s- s- set the cotton a fire. Then they could start {NS} fire from the cotton. {NS} That's the way it used to be back there. But my father always was lucky to have matches. Striking matches we had to be careful not strike too many matches and waste 'em we had to be careful. Took care of them matches. Interviewer: Did you have a a big piece of wood that burned a long time that you put in the back of the fireplace? 472: Yeah. You could have wood like that. And uh keep the fire a long time keep the heat in the fireplace. We used oakwood most at the back. Called 'em back log. Interviewer: Back log. 472: Back log. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Back log. And I've heard my father talk about back yonder in the time that they had to use flint rocks to get fire from there's a lot of ti- timber fell in the woods then. Big logs. And they'd set any one of these logs afire and it would burn for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks not even a month to before it burned up. And they'd get they'd go get the fire from that log they'd say get the fire outta that log {X} that's the way they used to do that going without matches. {NS} Interviewer: Was there something inside the fireplace that you put those backlogs on 472: Yeah you could have uh rocks lay 'em on rocks or something to keep 'em off of the ashes you know. Or you might find some old pieces of iron something or another. A brick or something. Put them logs on. And uh we could get a spark started from them then the next day if they're still {X} Interviewer: Did you ever heard a people call those things firedogs or dog irons or 472: Yeah. Yeah you can buy 'em now that they call firedogs. Uh dog irons or something like that. And people makes 'em now for theirself mostly. These ladies got {X} they use a chimney every winter. These ladies do. And they got some at the one of the neighbors made 'em over here at the place uh shop. He had a shop over there and he made them some of them firedogs. He was here long as he lived. {X} {NS} {X} Interviewer: Back then did you have a place right over the fireplace where you could put a 472: Oh called a mantel shelf yeah. Uh yeah. Mantel boards. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Oh yeah. Yeah I remember hearing my uncle tell Aunt Elmer {NW} that was papa's baby brother after he married and had a family uh tell us said he's going there to hunt something he'd laid up on the mantel shelf and there's so much gets laid on a shelf do you know junky. {NS} {X} She says Elmer Says where is the uh plow stock? Eh where's the plow stock. Said I see everything up here but the plow stock. {NW} Interviewer: {NW} 472: {NW} Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: #1 # 472: #2 # Interviewer: Ah 472: {NW} Ah she said crazy. Something like that you know {NW} Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {NW} # {NW} He meant she didn't {X} Interviewer: #1 Got everything over # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: there except the plow stuff 472: Yeah. {NS} Said I see everything up here but the plow stock. {NS} Interviewer: It must have been pretty cluttered. 472: Rough wasn't it Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 472: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 # 472: #2 # He throwing out {X} Interviewer: {NW} 472: {X} Interviewer: That's funny. 472: {NW} Interviewer: Was there an open place right in front of the fireplace maybe uh bricked over or something? 472: No there wasn't no brick over it but they had them uh sticks they run them sticks out in there. And they made a a board that'll hold this clay uh way take they take some kind of metal if they could get it and put under this clay under the clay like they do bricks now you know #1 {D: build all} # Interviewer: #2 Yes sir. # 472: And they'd put that there to hold the lay up and then that'd between the m- metal and wood. To keep the fire from getting so hot in there. And they used to rest of it too. That's the way they done it. Interviewer: Was there an open area right in front of there called uh what was that called? Uh where you could sit in front of the fireplace I guess or 472: Yeah um {X} enjoy the heat from the fire yeah. Yeah you could sit there in front of the fireplace. {X} where there's a big fan that they'll have to keep moving out you know and moving in to keep everybody warm. They can all hug up there at one time. Interviewer: {NW} {X} 472: But in the a lotta times they got to where they built brick chimneys and rock chimneys and uh they could put a big heap fire in that could take care of a big family you know. Because they could uh a lot of 'em standing around the back. And every warm way back out in the room. Interviewer: Yeah. {NS} 472: Keep the room warm back there. And never build your chimney in the south end of the house. Never. Always if possible build it in the north end of your house. You put it in the south end you see the cold wind'll just pour right in there and it'll dry it right on up and you couldn't get no more. But you put it in the north end of the house {X} um you'd be uh warm to be in there then instead of in the cold. {NS} Just rush your cold out. Interviewer: I see. 472: Yeah. That's the way it was. Interviewer: Was there a place called the hearth or hearth or 472: Yeah they called that a uh well a fireplace hearth. Uh hearth. Whatever they called it. Yeah made out in front yeah. {NW} low down yeah just {X} standing yeah. Uh-huh. You call that a hearth. The hearth. {X} Yeah. {X} Interviewer: Now after you burned a lot of wood in the fireplace didn't you get a lot of this old black stuff stick on the sides of the 472: Smut? Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Well most of the smut didn't burn itself out. There'd come a rainy day sprinkle a rainy day and this s- soot would get a little damp and it would catch a fire. What I mean by that uh there's something or other about it that made it catch a fire. And it'd did just go out well maybe after the rain stopped it it would catch a fire. And it'd go clean out the top of the chimney and just clean that chimney 'til the top. Interviewer: Is that right? {NS} 472: Yeah {NS} And you had to be careful about fire poles on the roof you know {X} {NS} wooden roofs {X} boards. Interviewer: #1 Right at # 472: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: Yeah. 472: Yeah. And this uh soot would catch a fire. It's called soots and not smut so and it'll just clean that chimney out. Well also the wooden stoves they use to have put wood into cook on uh sometime that soot'll get a fire and just clean that oven out under it you know the fire made it so the fire come under it. And you say well {NW} and hear it go up this pipe. Interviewer: Yeah. 472: Yeah. Blow it out. Interviewer: Wow. 472: And you could use this oil what they call s- kerosene and coal oil and put a little bit in that stove and that'll that'll make it burn it out too. Flush it out. {X} Interviewer: You just go right up the 472: Yeah. Burn that soot outta there clean the pipe out. And uh {NS} the pipes is alright long as you didn't have a elbow. Some people used heaters in the house layer. And put a elbow through there. A pipe through the wall uh out the window or something and they had a elbow they put on this pipe. And that elbow would sure fill up with that ashes and soot. But they learnt the latter later on after that thing they learned to split a split a hole in the bottom of that elbow {NS} and that taken care of the problem. {NS} {X} Firing stuff to just keep going. Wouldn't stop a clog up Yes sir. Cut that hole in there just draw it on the p- pipe there. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Course with all that fresh air right in there {NS} and that first step took all the {X} {NS} It's really interesting. Interviewer: Is that uh talking about the stovepipe is that the same thing as a flue? 472: No. A flue goes on top of the house if it goes out the top you know. They put the flue on top of the house and uh run the pipe up through it. Made a flue. And then there's no danger of the fire catching the wood. This flue holds a pipe a way away from the wood. Call it a flue. Interviewer: Well does that make a flue the same thing as a chimney? 472: Uh no. No. No this is all together different it's it it's uh stove inside you got a flue coming up through the top to protect the fire from the wood. But if you got a heater instead of a fireplace {NW} you had to have this flue around the heater. {X} Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Duct taped to it {X} {NS} Interviewer: I see. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: Well years ago if people had a room in the house where they might have company uh maybe they keep it the best room in the house what would they call that? 472: Well they'd call it a a setting room. Or the best bedroom. Other words it would be the nicest one on the place they'd we always give our guest the best. We love 'em and we try to treat 'em the best we know how and can. At them times. And so uh some people was forced 'em to have two heats {NS} two chimneys or two heaters. And they would but then {C: speech distortion} {X} {NS} But if they didn't then {NS} they'd give him the best and tidiest room they had {NS} and give 'em the best {X} the best they could afford. {NS} And give 'em {X} heavy coat {NS} such as quilts. Comforts. Called comforts. Quilts. Interviewer: Is that comfort the same thing as a quilt? 472: Uh yeah but it's hea- no heavier than a quilt. Comfort's heavier than a quilt. {NS} And uh that'd keep 'em warm. Interviewer: I see. 472: This day and time though we'd give 'em a give 'em electric blanket. Interviewer: Right. 472: {NW} If they need it. Interviewer: That's pretty handy. 472: Yeah. {D: Handy-blandy} you better believe it is. Have one myself. Interviewer: Right. Did women used to get together and patch those quilts? 472: Now these here still does. Interviewer: Is that right? 472: Not patch 'em but build 'em. Make 'em. Yes sir they got quilting they do that everywhere. {NS} {X} They can't feel the hours. {NS} {NW} {X} {C: tapping sound} Interviewer: Still in demand? 472: Yeah. Still demand for them quilts. That's yeah. Most of the quilts now are light you know? Now them old comforts too heavy too m- too much to tight you know? They use quilt. Make quilts. {NS} Interviewer: Back then did people have this long piece of furniture that several people could sit on at the same time? 472: Such as benches. Yeah. Yeah my grandfather had a bench on his front porch he had a big front porch like this. {NS} And he had a bench made out of those cypress lumbers from the river swamp and it would sit as much as twelve ten or twelve people grown people get on that bench. {NW} And it was made outta heavy-duty stuff. And it was just tremendous to know see how that they were fixed up to take care of them their friends and the ladies coming. In the summer they'd put 'em out on that bench. Just have a nice time. And then they'd have benches short benches in the house that they sit 'em down. Interviewer: Did they ever have you know like what they have nowadays this long padded one in the living room usually? That several people could sit on? 472: Yeah. Yeah. In these latter days later days yeah they have padded {NS} pad uh seats for 'em. Um covered seats I call 'em. {NS} And makes it much better to sit on {NW} but I don't see too much of that now if it's especially if it's a big porch you're gonna have chairs out like this to sit on {NS} {X} There but {NS} they have got a lot of chairs inside that {X} in winter around the fireplace. Comes in {NW} have an awful lot of company it's a wonder they ain't got somebody drove up to there this morning. Interviewer: {NW} 472: On a Monday morning. Interviewer: Right 472: They had a lotta cars For the uh fine people. They treat everybody right {X} They even can for 'em. {X} Interviewer: Did back then did they have a couch or sofa or something like that? 472: Well they come up with it in the latter days yeah. I see a lot in these old gullies now throwed away. Interviewer: What's that? 472: These couches. Them things that they throwed away they used 'em 'til they're Come up with modern more things. Better ones. That's the way they did 'em they carried 'em to the shop gullets somewhere {NS} If that made 'em quit all that now {X} {NS} Interviewer: Something you said that you had a a place in your house where you kept all your junk? Uh that's that's a bench I got a shelf built back there that I put my quilts and what you have it on you know? Got a little shelf a little shelf back there now that I put all the quilts and things {C: tapping sound} What I can stack on it. It's like everything else it just gets too much junk 'til you can't have you have to move out 472: #1 every now and then. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Did you ever hear of people who has had a whole room in their house where they put all their junk? 472: I've heard of Interviewer: Just set aside a room 472: Yeah I've heard of that. I- I'd like to see that sight. That'd be pretty good to see. Interviewer: Ya reckon what they call that. 472: Well I don't know. I call mine a junk room whenever I get it full like that. Uh antique or in other words uh some people wants to keep everything. {NW} I've even heard of 'em keeping uh cooking soda boxes Arm and Hammer cooking soda boxes. Stack them back and everything they can get a hold to uh uh just enough to throw away. Interviewer: {NW} 472: I call it s- uh selectors selecting stuff you know. I call them selectors. Hell I'm pretty bad about such as that myself. That little old house out there you'd be surprised the stuff I got put in there. I'd uh I it's useful though I think it's useful it will be it's can be and is. Different things. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: I got my fruit in there too. Interviewer: True you never can tell you might as well keep it I guess. 472: I've heard the old saying {NW} {NS} if you got something that you oughta throw away say just keep it seven years and you'll have a use for it. Interviewer: {NW} 472: I've heard that you know? Interviewer: Right. 472: But that's superstitious I reckon. We're getting into that superstitious business and I don't care too much about it {X} superstitious you know. Keep things that long and every- Interviewer: #1 Do you ever # 472: #2 thing # Interviewer: do you ever know people who claim they saw these things around graveyards you know they're afraid of 'em? 472: Oh yeah. Graveyard stories. That's something else boy. Yeah I've heard a that. Mm-hmm. Uh {C: clears throat} Interviewer: What do they call those things you know 472: Ghosts. {NS} Yeah hearing and seeing ghosts and all that. Uh I heared it this old fella one time come along and uh he heared something at uh out in the graveyard and there was telling he wa- {X} there was two men at the gate and uh he heared 'em saying talking about the separating the people he heared about God was gonna separate the peo- {NW} And he was in the cemetery and he heared 'em talking at the gate gonna separate the people and he said me one and you one. Me one and you one. And he didn't know what they were doing. And he he got mighty uneasy thought it was a it's either some God separating the people taking the good and the bad and he got awful upset about {NS} I heard that you know? Uh that that that was one of the stories ghost stories. And he couldn't imagine what it was and he eventually got away I think and run ran away and left him and they were going on something there for a cause but I never did know what they cause was. {X} get. Interviewer: Yes sir. You ever hear people say that those things can get into a house you know and the house'll be 472: Haunted. Yeah. Haunted. Yeah yes sir I've heard a lot of that ghost stories. Yeah I've heard of houses being haunted and uh they would see uh things at night would fog would come around and uh see all kinds of things and hear things wallow about in the house. Haunted you know they believe in that. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: Yeah. Interviewer: You don't believe in that do you? 472: No I don't believe in all that stuff. No I don't. If I hear something I'll find out what it is if I can't well well done anyway. Interviewer: {NW} 472: I don't run off. Interviewer: {NW} 472: I hadn't so far Interviewer: #1 {X} # 472: #2 {D: I mean} # {NW} Something could come around give me a fright but I don't think it would. Interviewer: Is uh Satan and the Devil the same thing? 472: Well that's a pretty deep question but I think I can answer you yeah. Interviewer: No difference. 472: No difference I know of. Interviewer: What do people usually call him either s- Satan or the Devil? 472: Yeah they call him Satan. {NW} Uh all kinds of old names or most Call him old uh Red Eyes and old S- Devil with Horns and I don't know what all they call it. {NW} I hear the lady not far from here some sweet little children at the home and she went in the house she was outside and she got a move on him called 'em little devils when they run out the door. And I I thought about just there and that and you know that just broke my heart that just broke my heart. That wasn't no way to approach a little child you know why so much meanness going on now most children and growing up? Because they wasn't never teaching t- teached at home uh the right thing. They've always been scorned they've always been uh homes like that you know? Come outta homes like that and you can't expect nothing else bu- but crime or now because you never have been taught no better. Interviewer: Yes sir. 472: And what what a little child's looking for when it's comes becomes to be walking you might say of a little baby it's looking for somebody to tend it take it up with tender love and have mercy with it and raise it like it ought to be and uh some chi- {X} when man and woman's joined together they should be joined together in the Lord. {NW} To where that they'll know by the Bible how to raise a family. And you know it just tears my heart to think about we have scriptures telling us how and what to do about these little children and raise 'em up in the way you'd have 'em to go and then they won't depart from us you see. Well if I ain't got it myself how can I? And this'll run back to the fourth or fifth generation if not come up right. Interviewer: {NW} {C: silence}