748: he got a percentage out of taxes Interviewer: Yeah 748: that's where he got his pay I didn't tell this man I owed you o- ten dollars when he didn't owe but five take five puts it in my pocket he gets those together {NW} he had nothing there {X} and he always say if I've done anything now wrong I'm gonna give a stone back to you {NS} {X} said he was a nice man {NS} you know a lot of folks cheap now you know that place above short weight measure a lotta folks you know uh try to they couldn't lend you out a bushel come on uh they won't they they won't feel their best if they go {NW} my bible say shake it down shake it down let it lie low. see? that what my bible says {NW} and uh another thing they wouldn't do they go into {NW} You have so you have so much to know about what bought your Boppy's land {D: man is selling pieces} {NW} don't have that many gonna say one {X} don't have any any orders field be seventy seventy yards wide don't have a man to go out there in severe though uh sixty people I but maybe it's seventy no I kinda like it older so there's a whole lot I'm telling you the truth when you look at things and think about things well we got a whole lot to think about Interviewer: yes sir But one thing One thing my daughter had done {NW} But I know the way you lack this kinda talk now But one thing my daughter had done he's made it possible that every man can be saved if he will if he will {X} if he will first confess in his strife {NW} confess his sin now where did the sins go? sin from the seed of Adam the sins of Adam being undone sins of Adam. cause hell them sins done shit on us all that where that's what I was thinking about. and um there been some mighty good folk take that them Bob Richardsman the man had all he wanted he he he just always don't uh uh worship that above God I couldn't have this old shack here if it wasn't for God I would I wouldn't be sat up in this chair wasn't for God. {NW} I wouldn't be sitting {NW} Thank him for everything. Thank him for everything. Thank him for everything. Put him above all we say I thank God. Put God ahead of everything oh he is ahead. But I I'm an I'm an old black man that believe in the God {NW} yes sir. {NW} oh might have left them parts out there that's another thing {NW} it's a mean thing for folks to have What do you mean? 748: Well {NW} just just better if you just lover boy I'm a man and you's a man Interviewer: Yeah 748: {NW} and uh maybe I have some maybe coming on Interviewer: Well what about f different types of people? 748: Well I'll tell ya about different types of people {NW} Where'd that come from? that come from uh when Noah let's see {NW} after the flood and uh let me see now I get that right now {NS} Interviewer: Well 748: well anyhow I- the people at one time they wanted to make them a god now now I get I that that part I get that part from? another god not the living god. Make them a god Only god. Make them a god to suit themselves and they {NW} built and built and built next they want to build him a a temple or a monument to him and uh God tore all that stuff down and here's what here here here here's what oh here's what what here here's what made 'em couldn't have if if if he just or {NW} they couldn't understand {NS} if if the man said bring me some water {NS} he'd bring him something else. He he couldn't understand {NW} Interviewer: Yeah 748: bring me some bring me some some bricks he'd bring him something different then see that that that that change the language right there change the language right there Interviewer: Yeah 748: change the language poor people to talk different different languages {NS} Interviewer: Yeah {NS} 748: took a whole lot {X} Uh {NS} about that about creation about the old mind and about the world everything Interviewer: Yeah #1 mister # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: {B} What r what what religion are you? What religion are you? 748: What's that? Interviewer: What religion are you? 748: Oh I'm a Baptist. Missionary Baptist {NW} {NS} Interviewer: Yeah and uh you were young when you 748: When I joined the church yes I joined the church when I was about well let's see how young I was about eighteen years old Interviewer: Yeah 748: when I joined church Interviewer: Are you a preacher? 748: No sir I'm not a preacher Interviewer: a person 748: I've had a lotta folks who I've had some few folk now who thought I was a preacher but I'm not a preacher. Interviewer: Yeah 748: Fact I ain't got an education Interviewer: Yeah. 748: {NW} I'm less than what you call a s- a full twelve room third grade fourth grade student in school {NS} I tell in my church all the time I've told 'em that told them we got some smart alecks you know smart alecks you know cause they supposed to been to school like that in all like that course you ain't got to thinking you ain't got no sense but listen {NS} I told that um if one thing my God has blessed me with I got no education but he blessed me with this much he give me enough knowledge to to know how to read enough {NW} that I can read anything printed in English Now we've had some nice smart people in our church up there I've served in my church up there years and years I've got- {NW} Uh I've got a history {X} of it right now {NW} it's suiting to allow Sunday school. Interviewer: Yes. 748: that's truth {NS} suits and a Bible Sunday school Interviewer: Yeah 748: I'm not perfect. I'll do a lot a things wrong {NW} but listen it uh I told them up there one time I was on the phone {NW} uh about uh I do a lot a things wrong but I says that fine with me God's made {X} with blood I say I got a tree a builds- I got a tree a beat out there {NW} something I do wrong Interviewer: lot a people do things wrong. 748: yeah why sh- do wrong {NS} That fountain that come on he said it can give you anything except sin against the holy ghost everything except sin against the holy ghost {NS} Do wrong confess it confess it to him Interviewer: Yes. 748: if you do wrong do your your future brother-in-law Confess it him I treat you wrong sir Interviewer: Yeah Interviewer: tell me about your early days in school 748: {NW} Well my early days at school I'll just tell ya {NW} {NS} Hmm one of the first day I first time I went to school little big ol' kid of about six years start six years old Interviewer: You started in the what Well I started in the in grammar school you might say six year I was six years old What grade? You started in uh 748: Well in first grade Interviewer: the pre- the 748: First grade Interviewer: the primer? 748: Yeah primer. and uh {NS: bells ringing} {NW} one thing about it I I was staring up at a little fellow and and and wanted to pee and peed all over the pee peed all over there {NW} {NW} I'll tell ya another thing. My schooling {NW} I remember five years that I got to go to school five days I went four day one a them years them one {X} well here's the reason why {NW} My father was a poor sickly man. He had asthma and sometimes Uh you could hear that old man get his breath oiled out couldn't lay down just he's had to sit up care how cold it was or how hot {X} And the only thing that he ever did get for that Interviewer: #1 Could he ever sleep? # 748: #2 {X} # What's that? Interviewer: Could he sleep? 748: No he couldn't sleep nothing all of that The only help he could get to that asthma {NW} #1 that's what he used to do # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 748: was a little bit of dry powder poured out over the head and sitting the {X} {NW} and inhale that got over but anyhow it makes a long story short Now he wasn't down all the time but I had to work when I got up big enough to learn how to plow got a horse up and down the road and plow and all like that and {NW} take a hole and cut the grass out there {NS} move the cart and the corn and stuff like that I had to work and then listen {NS} Oh we worked on share and when we laid the crop by in a year times are hard my daddy would help me out. see need a little money to live on I couldn't even get to school Interviewer: #1 yeah # 748: #2 {X} # I didn't get to go to school {NW} I stayed with the old man no I didn't pr I didn't run off and leave him I stayed back there and he said {NW} He he he told me man {NW} I tell you son you can go how come he told me? I wasn't mean now to him because now {NS} Uh as his second he had his third wife and she was you know poor thing Interviewer: What happened to his other two wives? 748: Both died. My mother died and he married another woman and uh now the next one he married they separated the second one {NW} {NS} and then the third woman and they didn't have no he didn't have no children by his uh second wife. {NW} But the third wife they had a bunch of children little great big bunch a little children you know and I then and I had to work over there that's how I went to get my education {NS} Interviewer: Yeah how many'd you have around the house? 748: Oh he had about eh about Interviewer: What were their names? 748: oh lord I'm a tell you the truth {NW} Um let me see Tom {NW} Eddie and uh {X} Mary Willy and let me see Interviewer: Yeah 748: Anyhow I I know there's there's several more {X} {NS} Interviewer: anyone named Moore? uh 748: what's that? Interviewer: Martha? 748: No I mean they couldn't have anyone named Martha Interviewer: Name what? 748: I have a sister named Mary but not Martha {NS} Interviewer: Yeah 748: Got a half sister named Mary Interviewer: #1 yeah # 748: #2 She's a half-sister # I never did have but one whole sister Interviewer: You remember that old song wait 'til the sun shines {X} You ever heard of the- Well a girl's named beginning with H would be 748: What's that? Interviewer: A girl's name beginning with H 748: Well I never have heard the {X} the definition you won't hear me trying to tell you something Interviewer: you ever heard any a a girl's name beginning with H? 748: uh Heard of a girl's name begin with H? Interviewer: Yeah 748: Well sure I got a I got a niece now lives in California name's her name's Haley {X} Interviewer: Any other ones? 748: And then I know plenty other folks names that start with H got a got a got a got a got a got a got a got a half {NS} Got a cousin right down the street sure his name start with Henry his name his his name Henry. his name started with H Interviewer: Yeah 748: Got this girl Haley was talking about my my brother-in-law that oh his name starts with Haley Al is his name you see? Interviewer: Yeah Now he- uh H woman's name Helen? {NS} 748: Well Interviewer: you ever heard of a woman's name beginning with N? 748: What? Interviewer: With N? {NS} Nep- Nem- Nel- 748: Well I've heard of I know people named Nel- {D: Naday} Interviewer: Yeah 748: and all like that an older white friend a mine her name is Nelly Interviewer: Yeah 748: Nelly Good Interviewer: Yeah 748: Do not say white men some some folks may not {NW} at least some I know some colored folk would may not like the way you say it but I say it well I I say we're good friends {D: among white folk now cause} {NW} Lemme tell you another thing friendship ain't just for the now friendship is what you do That's right Interviewer: Why's that? 748: a friendship a friendship a friend if he see you in need help regardless of race creed or color He comes to {NS} he come until he help you just like a {NW} I was down at Kroger store one day {NW} and I stepped over that step and down I went couple of white boys {D: damn it} {NW} white boy I didn't know them they didn't know if that boy hadn't have helped me up there I know I'd have {NW} see humanity reach out for humanity didn't do like him like that old priest Not what we'd write down When they saw that poor republican {D: thou commit sin done wrong} Priests now {X} {NW} Oh my goodness they religious folk he saw him didn't do a thing about it {NW} another lesson officer and the and the church {X} He saw him didn't do a thing for him But listen {NS} {NW} I can't come up with the name {X} {NW} Interviewer: samaritan 748: yeah there god samaritan yeah when he passed by listen when he'd look {X} he went and done something wrong. see I had a friend I had a friend. {X} {NS} right up on that road there he had a wreck. Interviewer: What road's that? 748: I mean that road out there uh Ivory circle they had a wreck right up that road there and I goes up there one time {NS} well down here just about where where you go turning off coming into my house Interviewer: #1 this is your what out here? # 748: #2 well # What's that? Interviewer: This is your what? 748: My home you mean? Interviewer: Well out front is your? coming into your house 748: Well uh the east I don't know what you call it road or east Interviewer: this road you turn off to coming to your house. It's a 748: Well we call that a side road Well anyhow there's a bunch around him people of course they of course they was white folks of course um just a bunch around. helping helping. I goes on up to see who who was in the other car I didn't know who was in the other car I goes on up there I see {NW} and I got up there and there was a negro man laying down didn't know he was in the world and a white man listen a white man and then he tells us looking nice looking white man w- he's down on him {NW} you see humanity but reach out for him now. Regularly he said to me He says well listen he says I got him to now he says you hold your hand here just a few minutes he'll be all right I'll go around here and see if I can help some other folks see that's what you call a friend. there you treat the whole lot of people {NS} Interviewer: Yeah 748: So I won't have time to talk much more now cuz I've got some other things I wanna get done. I've got to go to {D: ducktown} Interviewer: Yeah. 748: I'm about to get my {X} But I'm glad to talk with you Interviewer: Yeah I'm glad to talk with you too. 748: {NW} Interviewer: Could you- Could you- do another interview with me sometime tomorrow? Would that be okay? 748: Well lemme see now. Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow. Interviewer: I can give you some money for for your inter for interviewing with me. I I like to #1 give you something # 748: #2 let me see # Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow. {NS} I'm a have to keep myself together now see what what's gonna be done whether I could tomorrow here sometime but I don't know I got a sister coming sometime tomorrow but I don't know what time she coming Interviewer: Yeah 748: She coming from California. Interviewer: Really? 748: Coming from California. Interviewer: what about later on this afternoon? Would you have time then? 748: Well it'll be it'll be I'll tell ya they have to be around say around 4 o'clock Interviewer: that'll be fine 748: Because tell you why my my appointment with the doctor is two thirty {NS} Interviewer: Yeah 748: well {X} {NS} my doctor don't do it like some doctor used to do now back one {NW} {NS} who taking a {X}? {NS} Interviewer: Yeah. 748: now that's true my doctor wanted to do that {NS} lemme tell ya one thing about me {NW} I was up there in the doctor's office one day I didn't have one didn't go on no appointment you know. I just went up there to see him He just told me to come back in about two weeks or something like that. {NS} well I didn't have no hour appointment or something like that. Well when I walked in I was sitting down and there was a colored man she had had a place for the colored and a place for the white. I was there in the colored room. The colored man was sitting there and oh my lord that man he just sitting up there talking and he said something said {X} wait on the wait on the wait on the niggers just took on the white folk. after a while that man was {X} You know what I said to that man? here's what I said to him I said listen mister I didn't know his name {NW} I said there's one thing I want you to remember {NW} that we poor colored folk don't even have a colored doctor in Union County That's what I tell him A long way we got to go. a long way we got to go we don't have a colored doctor in union county now that {X} he listened there and he hushed too and here goes his brother then now listen plenty white folks sitting there they they rather come walking out {NW} he there talking up about this nigger {X} Satan Satan Satan there his brother comes walking {NW} I wonder if that nigger think about that after he left after what I told him but I stopped him and I told I said we don't have a colored doctor we used to have them we don't have any a colored doctor in Union County. Interviewer: Yeah 748: not El Dorado I'm talking about Union County Interviewer: who do you make an appointment with? 748: hmm? Interviewer: when you go 748: wha- who who my doctor Interviewer: yeah who you make and appointment with 748: my doctor you know #1 uh # Interviewer: #2 has # has he got private 748: Well I'll tell ya about my doctor {X} the more I go there he's just said well {NW} I'll see ya in said don't don't go {X} he said I'll see you see you in in a month I just to the to the to the desk and I tell the lady there Interviewer: She's a 748: and she's a #1 clerical # Interviewer: #2 se- # 748: I'd say Interviewer: #1 se- # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: secretary 748: Yeah secretary but anyhow Interviewer: did ya what? 748: well I'd say a secretary could call a sec- anything tell you what Interviewer: Yeah 748: {NW} and she said I said well doctor well I'd come the end of the month and she'd look over her books But uh listen boys see B-T What about such and such day? I said well that'll be alright. Such and such hour? That'll be alright. She'd throw the card and all I gotta do when I go in is stick the card in there Interviewer: Yeah. {NS} 748: Now some people go to a doctor now that's another different thing some folks don't think about some people you go to a doctor and ain't got no appointment and folks without appointments they won't they not going to take you without no appointments you know that? Interviewer: What's that I hear right there? 748: {NW} you know what that back in there is? Interviewer: Yeah 748: {NW} I be a spirit hanger spirits we call 'em Interviewer: Ah come on you pulling my leg. What is that? 748: What is that? Interviewer: What is that smell? #1 Somebody # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: cooking back there aren't they? 748: Yeah come here I got to go back there. You're going to kill him now the smoke my goodness oh Lord I had to hold the doors and the windows and let it out and uh I have some ribs cooking {NS} {D: they done burned black} {D: done burned white with burnt on black} and um and that {X} what did you think? that too Well uh I come {X} and I'm glad I did after I found out better late one story I know is he's got a some neat little cooking thing you can carry around but you have to use coal see? Interviewer: Yeah {NS} 748: and now they got some electric ones now uh them the same one I got sitting right there on the table right back there I can put a chicken note right up there on the board. put them by a cup a water {NS} couple of couple cups of water and uh {X} you see {X} they don't live here. come back Interviewer: Yeah. 748: Well I'm gonna get on look right there bit of that little water still in there {NW} boy little ol' thing back here right now. Interviewer: Yeah. 748: I don't blame it on him now I bought me one a them things Interviewer: Yeah. 748: {NW} yeah but I didn't yeah what I had to cook on then I didn't have in that thing but having um uh you have and said somewhere there's a smell and I went back there and that the water just just just just cooked off {NS} Interviewer: Yeah {NS} 748: we didn't have that in the cooker {NS} Interviewer: um now what sorta let me ask you just one more a few more questions What sort of uh clothes did folks wear back in the old days? What do you wear to church? 748: Well I'll tell ya {NS} We had a had a cloth they call homespun. homespun cloth and uh they made shirts folks made shirts. Women made shirts out of that cloth. women made dresses out of that cloth you see need different colors and uh say uh they had a stuff they'd call bleaching and they had another cloth they call domestic that was white and that's uh uh bleaching uh uh your white cloth. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 748: buy bulks of that see you could make uh under cloth things like that Interviewer: if yeah if a woman wanted to buy a dress of a certain color she'd take a little piece of cloth to use as a as a what? As a 748: As a kind of Interviewer: se- 748: a pattern or a #1 what do you call that a kind of a # Interviewer: #2 se- # #1 Yeah. # 748: #2 some # uh I don't know what you call that Interviewer: Well do you ever get anything through the mail? 748: Yeah. Interviewer: They might give you something through the mail as a free 748: Yeah. Interviewer: you know you get a bar of soap 748: Yeah. Interviewer: For a what? 748: Well you get a bar a soap now you could if you mean get the bar of soap or just Interviewer: #1 Through the mail. # 748: #2 through the mail # Interviewer: #1 Just give it to you # 748: #2 out the mail # If I could get a bar of soap {D: for fifteen cents} Interviewer: Yeah. with no when they say that Would they ever send you anything in the mail? 748: Yeah. Interviewer: Like what? 748: I've had I've had soaps and I've had uh just uh voluntarily sent to me. and I've had uh Interviewer: Yeah they say that's a free 748: Yeah well free gift in other words its an advertisement Interviewer: Yeah they want you to do what? 748: {NW} you can get another {X} Interviewer: They want you to s- to 748: buy buy something go buying Interviewer: Yeah and they send you this as a what? 748: uh uh uh a sample they want you to I call it a sample Interviewer: Yeah 748: a sample you prove it out yourself. Send me a bar of soap You take that soap and you you that soap is good #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 748: you know that's good there that's good soap well uh thing about that you know then uh I'm gonna buy me some that then Interviewer: Yeah. I'm gonna tell you a thing about soap now. My mother-in-law a good old woman {NW] She got old and she couldn't keep She didn't keep herself cleaned up good Especially a woman in the way of her discharge and uh and you could smell her sometimes around the house and I How'd she smell? you said she smelled 748: oh just kind of funky you know I'd say #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Yeah 748: Well my wife got to her {X} made me get a {NW} and I saw an advertisement didn't get a sample now but I saw an advertisement in the paper to get this here um uh It ain't it ain't {X} think it's called it but there's uh you know I got some of the soap in there and I can't call the name and I bought her some of that soap and I be washing with that soap you know smell that? take all that scent just keep it all you have to do is just keep cleaning with soap. see Like uh {NW} {NW} like way back yonder when folk didn't have any washtub didn't know didn't I mean that like these bathtubs now a whole lotta them got it now but {NW} didn't have them things to get of uh some of 'em just take a pan and water yourself some of 'em take a little foot tub or a little little something like a tub little tub you know Well some of 'em get out and some of them uh kind of like a washtub but uh uh you can't reach well they had to get one little rag you know Interviewer: Yeah. You use a towel 748: use this one rag on uh uh this one rag on it and so {NW} I walked in one day my wife was taking a bath like that Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 748: and there's places she couldn't reach there she couldn't reach 'em she couldn't reach 'em the back I don't know Interviewer: What'd you say? 748: {NW} That's just what I'm saying now whole lotta ways to kill a cat besides choking them to death on butter. {NW} now that's just an old saying {NW} Interviewer: Yeah. 748: {NW} Interviewer: Now what would a woman wear around here in the kitchen? 748: apron. Interviewer: Yeah. 748: she should have that apron tie that apron around on you #1 she can # Interviewer: #2 yeah # Now she might say this is a pretty dress but this one's even 748: well I don't want to get that nothing on that on the dress you know Interviewer: Yeah. 748: and my my {NW} my my nice dress maybe they come to church maybe sometime don't wanna go and put on their everyday clothes. nothing like that maybe they ain't got time. {NW} Just get an apron and put it on you see. Interviewer: Yeah. 748: Tie it around. And that keeps all the stuff off {NS} Interviewer: {NW} Um you know she talking about a dress she'd say My that's a pretty dress I can't make up my mind That's one's pretty but I think this one's even 748: b-better Interviewer: yeah that's one's pretty but I this one's even 748: prettier Interviewer: prettier 748: Well that's what you yeah. {X} Interviewer: Trying to make couldn't make my mind up 748: You see that all the time Interviewer: Yeah. 748: some look better Interviewer: When a man wears the goes What does a man wear when he goes to church? 748: Well a man we wear I'll tell ya what we wear. We usually wear coats and pants shirt tie. Things like that I'm not talking about your underwear. Interviewer: Yeah or you might have something uh 748: Well folks used to have vests I tell you what you know folk gotta sharp way of uh they make you buy things you know course people {D: and of course want you know be stylish} {X} {NS} I can remember way back yonder {NS} that they made a They made a thing that you put over over your neck around that way and put it down the {X} put your coat on and then you look alright Yeah I've seen that {NW} men go used to buy suits long time ago with a vest {D: but not up here {X}} {NW} Well the folk go a way a knowing wanna make you buy things then they quit making vests. {NW} Well folk buy them a suit without a vest because they keep saying no. Now they done gone back to making vests {NW} #1 you see that don't you? # Interviewer: #2 yeah # Yeah. 748: {NW} I went to a store there not too long ago. Interviewer: What'd you buy? bought yourself a 748: no I went to the store not long ago {NS} and I just happened to have a vest that you could buy you could buy you a vest course it may it won't be made it may not be the color of your suit but you can buy you a vest of any kind the man told me uh {X} {B} said we just sold there one of {X} {NS} {NW} Interviewer: B-W {B} 748: B-W {B} Interviewer: #1 yeah # 748: #2 man had a # good old man to me Interviewer: He's a nice man. 748: Oh me me me {NS} and that man was a man to me and he had a son I went to the funeral. there's some colored folks don't do much about going to white funeral white folks don't do much about going to colored but then some do he had a son pass young uh I thought it was this year yeah must have had {X} I was there too and when I went there you heard that have you seen that paper where where that nigger want to do? uh uh uh {NW} uh {D: part of them} called the church didn't you Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 748: {NW} Interviewer: I know that man 748: {NW} No but You know the man? Interviewer: Yeah. 748: the one that do that? Interviewer: I know. Taylor King that's his name 748: Well. Interviewer: I met him before 748: he was just wanna {X} Well It's like this Uh If he and I were standing in line. Well I don't talk to him won't let him come inside Well he want to come in and tell him act like he's taking over well uh I mentioned to these folks I said well I would like to be to the funeral and here's what they told me they said man come on we'll see that you're taken care of {NS} They didn't send me way up down the back nowhere {NW} immersion {X} {NW} uh first baptist church there on the main street in El Dorado they rushing when they seen me coming they come and get I came all but come and get the old man. help me on up the steps {NW} skirted on down the aisle. skirt this old black nigger on down the aisle! then listen {NW} down there well I'm not gonna sit say I sat on a reserved seat I wouldn't say that going to tell you a reason why. {NW} but the next seat ahead of me I was reserved but I had a white friend you see sitting on the seat that was was was behind me {NW} {D: and then the rest of pass him} we went to pass him he just said man here uh boy sit down here and I sit down there with him see. {NW} well I got ready to come out of the church them ushers took the old man {D: on and out} {D: and on and out} on down and out can you make it now? Yeah. {NW} #1 aw # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 748: lemme tell you this another thing When my wife died. Lord have mercy whites men that know me. {NS} come to compliment me They done it. They done it. They done it. white folks was at that funeral that day. boy I have a cold alright. they're a delight get along with them get along with them. {X} little old something you see see sticking up right over there under that picture? Interviewer: Yeah. 748: I went to a Myrtle Grove I worked at Myrtle Grove for years as a janitor. Interviewer: Where is Myrtle Grove? 748: Myrtle Grove was a school you know. and it's up here all through west or north {X} but anyhow. uh they wanted to have a reunion at school. and they said man we want you to be there. said we'll see to it that you get there and see that you get back. I went. and I the only black bird in the bunch but let me tell you the truth I never enjoyed a a social in the all the days of my life than I did that day. {NS} Why? Because so many of them folks friends now. {X} Now listen. Some of them pats do it just cause it's there's somebody up there. You know that? {NW} but some are being honest. some are sincere but some of them folk come up and shake hand man because somebody had done it here. To that you shouldn't here out in this country a white man shook the hand shook the hand of a nigger know what you do? look around see {X} the other white people them white folks shook hands with a nigger {NS} White folks will be treating you whether or not you you's the man if you's a woman if she's a woman it'll prove it they meet you anywhere The crowd don't get so big. Nothing My goodness alive {NW} Interviewer: Yup {NW} 748: See? Interviewer: Yeah. 748: {NW} Interviewer: if you're going to a wedding something like that you couldn't wear your your old suit you'd have to go out and buy a 748: Well I'll tell ya about that Interviewer: You might you know if you wanted to get fancied up you wou- 748: Well lemme tell you the truth about me If I want to go to a wedding and I had to go through all that I just wouldn't go I'm a just tell you the truth I wouldn't go I ain't going nowhere {X} Interviewer: Yeah But you know 748: If I can't dress up in nice old clean clothes well Interviewer: {NW} but you know years ago uh when was it you bought your first you bought your first you you know when you were a young boy your daddy might a take you town and buy a 748: {NW} Interviewer: He'd buy a what? 748: Well maybe he was going to buy me some pants he get me some new pants Interviewer: Yeah. #1 or he # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: he might buy you a whole 748: {X} coat you know but but at the same time them pants or we'd be needing pants. Interviewer: Yeah what would you wear around the farm? 748: Well on the farm well children would need need pants some of 'em little kids then got to look {NW} and sometimes was was when it had no long long shirt Interviewer: {NW} 748: Shirt tail {NW} that's right Interviewer: Yeah Well a man might wear what? bib 748: Well a man uh neck tie sometimes Interviewer: Yeah but around the farm he'd wear 748: Oh around the farm uh he just a man he'd wear a say a shirt and pants {NS} Interviewer: #1 yeah # 748: #2 and and then a morning shirt. # you know that's what they wear. They wear pants shirt and pants but they not it's not I mean one more time came fine cold weather might wear a coat pants and something like that. Interviewer: yeah. {NS} and did you ever see them Them things that they'd wear that become 748: wear coveralls yeah coveralls Interviewer: Yeah. They call them over 748: Yeah. Well now listen Coverall I never seen coverall until several years ago but and uh plus you wanted to have something they made overalls Interviewer: Yeah. 748: Them overalls have a long {X} {NW} Just like them pants you got on there now they got a long something like that need a {X} or whatever Interviewer: Yeah. 748: {D: you have it rolled up now} Interviewer: These are what? These are blue 748: yeah I just call them Interviewer: britches? 748: Yeah britches britches yeah but when they made when they made old old {X} men wore {X} {NW} Why they there you seen men wear overall and I said well uh as I said they got on up there and maybe got some pockets up there and they got Interviewer: Have buttons 748: Yeah b- buckles you know the pants taking it back out. Interviewer: or a shirt a shirt's got what got 748: Well shirt's got buttons on it Interviewer: buttons on it right 748: buttons {X} Interviewer: Um now you might say if your old suit wore out you'd have to buy a 748: a new one a a new buy another yeah buy a suit Interviewer: a what? 748: {NW} well just say a new suit of clothes Interviewer: a what 748: a new suit of clothes Interviewer: Yeah. um 748: just like these pants wore out I had to buy me another pair of pants. Interviewer: Yeah. You know if you had a coat you might say Now this coat won't fit this year. I can't understand because last year it {NS} 748: Well now I'll tell you about that I got a bunch a stuff sent to me from California a man had a l had had a showed him he he had to lose a lot of weight Interviewer: Yeah. 748: see? tell him to lose a lot of weight and uh Interviewer: #1 and his clothes # 748: #2 he he didn't want to # throw 'em away and he he sent them to me. Interviewer: Yeah. 748: Course he had to go to wearing smaller clothes like that old foot there I used to wear I used to wear uh number tens. Whole time my number. well my toes got bigger now I wear elevens Interviewer: Yeah. his clothes um {NW} after he lost weight #1 they didn't # 748: #2 I think well # he just had to buy some that fit him Interviewer: they didn't fit him right? 748: I mean by gosh {X} it's like if I if I buy a belt. and uh in other words Interviewer: what does a belt say on it when it's cow hide? 748: Well Interviewer: What's it say it says 748: well uh some of 'em just says leather belt so uh Interviewer: Yeah what does it say? 748: leather belt Interviewer: Ge- it says uh it'll say what? Gen- {NS} this is not imitation it's 748: Oh well yeah talking about yeah leather Interviewer: Yeah well you say guaranteed 748: well if it was guaranteed to be leather it ought to be leather if it's nothing not don't put no guarantee on it what Interviewer: #1 yeah # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: it's not fake it's 748: {NW} Interviewer: it what genu- Yeah I thought I had one written on my belt but I but I don't Um 748: I I've got a belt {X} Interviewer: Yeah Well you know after that man had lost weight his clothes didn't {NS} 748: well his clothes fit him they're just too in other words too big they don't {X} Interviewer: Clothes didn't fit him but but before they 748: They fit him Interviewer: they fit him 748: or they lost weight just like another thing if you gain weight sometime you wear sometime when I wear clothes this fits this time and about what picking up weight getting too tight I'm a have to get something bigger. Interviewer: Yeah 748: I'll start to get something bigger that's all {NS} Interviewer: yeah {NS} 748: all there is to it. Interviewer: you know when you when you're going buy a pecan tree and you put a lot of stuff a lot of pecans in your pockets it makes them 748: well according to {X} Interviewer: makes 'em b- makes 'em 748: make 'em bulge out {X} Interviewer: Yeah. You know what what would happen when you put say a cotton shirt in in the water in hot water it made it. it made it do what? It made it sh- 748: draw up Interviewer: draw up you say it's 748: well I'll tell you cotton don't wad up it's wool will. Interviewer: wool 748: yeah wool will cotton won't do that Interviewer: you say 748: yes cotton you can put that in water it ain't going to draw up. Interviewer: I put my wool shirt in the water and it #1 shr- # 748: #2 no # here here here you go see see there's a certain way you gotta wash wool. Interviewer: or it'll shr- it'll 748: Don't you don't you. You'll make it go way little you can't wash it the same you can't just take wool and just and put it in the pot and boil boil it. You can't take wool clothes through that. Interviewer: Or else it'll shr- it'll shr- 748: It'll swell up or or or stretch out. lose its shape. {NW} you try to do it that way. Interviewer: Yeah Well You said you never did you never did go to them 748: No I said no I I would again I said the thing that goes keep them together one thing would be all the church revival Interviewer: Yes sir 748: first of all first find an organist next thing is bring the folks together with dances next thing was school children programs. Interviewer: what do you mean? 748: well just say it's going school employees they have a program out to him in school Interviewer: at the end of school when school 748: when the school closed you know have a program there and um folk singing and children having {D: speeches and speeches} one thing or another like that. {NW} and uh that's one thing little like that. Interviewer: Yeah. Uh {NS} well sir Um {NW} when a girl like to say when she'd getting ready to go dance or something like that when she like to put on her best dress you'd say she was 748: Well I'll tell you about that I told you I never go dancing Interviewer: #1 Yeah # 748: #2 I know # {X} I never been to moon land or anything in my life I didn't go dancing I don't know about that but in church well sometime they wanna go to church and wanna put on their best clothes Interviewer: Yeah and they start 748: getting ready and all looking around them other {NS} Uh brushing them up see if it's clean Interviewer: {NW} Yeah. 748: and uh Interviewer: You'd say they're 748: and pressing if they need pressing things like that Interviewer: Yeah. {NS} You'd say they're doing what? 748: Well they getting ready for that Interviewer: Spend a lot of time in front of the mirror 748: Yeah yeah that's right standing forward looking in the glass you know combing their hair. and a {D: brush through the room when running all looking back to see how they look.} sometime put on their dress and turn around look in the glass. Interviewer: yeah 748: look around see if its see see if it's fitting all right in the back Interviewer: she's all She'd get all 748: what's that? Interviewer: you she'd get all what folks would say she's all 748: Well after she get all dressed up sometime she say well I'm ready to go now. Interviewer: Okay. and a man he would what would he do? He would 748: Well a man tell you what a man would do. He's going out. He's gonna go out take his bath shave get him up some clean clothes put them on he's ready to go Interviewer: Do you like to uh do that? 748: Yeah I like to do that when I'm getting ready to go places. I went I went to the doctor yesterday and I went to church Sunday Interviewer: Excuse me? 748: I said I went to church Sunday. I got up and cleaned up everything got everything up Got ready to go to church and went to church had a good service. Interviewer: Yeah 748: Went to church Interviewer: You say you were pri- uh You'd say a woman was {NS} primping up or 748: Well I say a woman was primping up you know Interviewer: Yeah. 748: seeing how her dress fit and how her hair was all brushed up and everything like that. a man he's wash up shave up put on his clothes and see how he looks Interviewer: Say he's doing what? 748: Then he's ready to go we're getting ready to go to church Interviewer: okay 748: I'm go hear the service yeah. Interviewer: A woman might wear might carry a what? She'd carry a 748: Well she got a handbag Interviewer: or a pur- uh 748: a handbag or purse whatever you want to call it Interviewer: Yeah and #1 around her wrist # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 she'd wear a # 748: #2 {X} # sometimes if they have them they'll put a wristwatch on if they have it Interviewer: or a just a an ornamental br- uh 748: Well a bracelet or something like that yeah. I have seen that Interviewer: Um around her around her uh 748: well around the neck? a woman usually has nice beads you know beads Interviewer: #1 Yeah. thing a beads # 748: #2 thing of beads # hanging around her neck. Interviewer: Yeah would uh. Now what if they were if they were pearls? 748: Well pearls would be her nice beads you know Interviewer: Yeah. something they'd say. They're not imitation they're those aren't imitation diamonds you might say those are thats a 748: Well you know Interviewer: Genu- 748: poor folk didn't have them diamonds but they had nice pearl be-beads or something little like that. Interviewer: Yeah. 748: See that's what they had Interviewer: But some of them rich folks #1 might wear a # 748: #2 well rich folks # they have them diamonds things like that. Interviewer: They wouldn't have a fake diamond they'd have a gen- uh You'd say they had a a genui- 748: genuine diamond or pearl or something like that. Interviewer: yeah 748: rich folk would Interviewer: right. What would a man wear to hold his trousers up? 748: well he wore suspenders. Interviewer: yeah 748: sometime or some suspenders or a belt. Interviewer: yeah #1 and a woman # 748: #2 just like I got on a belt now. # hold my trousers. Sometimes they and suspenders they pull them up over they over they uh up on the shoulders you know put on the pants pull them up over their shoulder. Interviewer: yeah #1 they call them # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: they call them 748: {X} something they call them {X} {NW} yeah Interviewer: #1 now # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: when it rained a woman would hold a 748: well when it rains she should have a she'll have an umbrella. {X} Interviewer: yeah. now I know you farm some uh I'd like you to tell me a little about the land here. uh is the land very is the land very good land here? 748: well we have some pretty fair land here. However we have to use fertility till most of it if we want it to do well. Interviewer: The land's not 748: yeah it ain't got enough fertility or something in it I done went to had to buy stuff for your fertilizer fertilizer see had to go that you know Interviewer: if uh if the land itself is good you say 748: well if the land is if the land is good we don't need put nothing in it. Sometimes stuff will grow too fast. Interviewer: yeah you say the land is very fer 748: is very productive. Interviewer: fer fer 748: just just say good or I call it. Woodland. Interviewer: fertile? 748: yeah. Interviewer: #1 what? # 748: #2 Yeah I would you say fertile. # Interviewer: fertile land. um now the kind of low flat land along a river it's 748: #1 flat old flatland is on the river # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 748: why it wasn't good to cultivate. I want to say that land was good just to grow timber. cause uh down flat and wet you could whack them down. Interviewer: Why is that? 748: well because it uh there's two things about it if it's down around the river in the bottom like that two things about it. one of them is that it's wet the next one is a hard now. A hard pack now. cause the Interviewer: and the soil doesn't 748: and the soil won't won't produce nothing but timber. Interviewer: What about water? 748: Well timber bush anything like that Interviewer: what about water on the soil? 748: water? Interviewer: yeah 748: well water uh we have had some springs would get water just spring water running out the ground. Make a hole there for the something in there and and tote all that water out of that spring. Good water I've seen some of the best water ever I've seen come out of that spring now. Go on and get some spring water those big springs {D: flowing we had now to to} to a lot of about about two three hundred yards from my house Interviewer: really? Can you drink it? 748: well sure man my good {X} that's some of the best water ever ever you can take Interviewer: can I drink some of it? 748: sure you could but they not here now Interviewer: What it's dry? 748: I mean uh uh the water's alright I said if you had some you could drink it. But ain't none here. I told that spring maybe two or three hundred yards from here. I'll told the woods out and and they're down in in the end of the banks. in the back of a {D: land} where that spring runs out at. Interviewer: #1 now a branch is # 748: #2 we we # we going to we call it the back uh ol' big spring. Interviewer: a branch is a what? 748: I'll tell you what a branch is a branch is a thing like a small stream of water on over here and after the water runs off here like the creeks and to another one that makes a little bigger creek. then it runs off into a little ones Interviewer: yeah where two creeks'll come together. 748: where two creeks come together {NW} we say a river. Interviewer: yeah. you ever seen the place in a river where it'll kind of fork or something like that? You'd say that was the what of the river 748: well I tell you I've seen uh rivers forks where that's concerned I've seen I've seen little might say little mounds or something where like that go up the river the water has to go around it. Your little mound there and um stuff growing and uh cattle oh not the cattle but other vermin and things squirrels and things like that play on it. and uh course not on the river forks why we just name it something else Interviewer: yeah 748: see? Interviewer: yeah 748: just like we got a river here we call it here we call it Wachitaw river Interviewer: yeah 748: well we got another river we call Selene river. and the other rivers different names you see Interviewer: around here? have you got any what about the water in the neighborhood? Did it did you got a place right down there? What is that back there? Just over the hill? 748: just over the hill Interviewer: yeah there's bridge across what? 748: Well that bridge there we call it the Mathus Mill Creek and how come we call it Mathus Mill Creek it was a creek a bank like formed well here about a mile or two up here up over the road Interviewer: yeah 748: and uh and that bank made a good big tree. big big branch and he'd run over and down and how come we call it Mathus Mill Creek because uh it uh Mathus owned that land back up there where that branch started there. A real nigger there. Interviewer: yeah 748: you see Called it Mathus Mill Creek. Interviewer: back up on the on the was it on top of a 748: well it kind of on a Interviewer: do you want me to 748: yeah that fan was Interviewer: #1 what? # 748: #2 {X} # fan on that door. so it won't be blowing over Interviewer: the door's open you want me to 748: no no I don't I don't want it open. Just shut it there. Now Then we won't get no racket. {NS} Interviewer: yeah okay now right here we're down in the what 748: we down in some kind of flat why we call it flats. over here in a flat people {D: call it} a flat. Interviewer: yeah. But there's some this kind of rolling land here. 748: that's right. Interviewer: yeah. 748: rolling land. Interviewer: uh is it flat now above here or 748: well I'll tell you. it plays a {X} Interviewer: yeah. 748: because uh uh it takes out right right out in front of my eyes that's flat down there. Interviewer: {NW} 748: well you see it {X} out there when you cultivate I can't cultivate that down there too wet but if it raises up you know your cultivating ground where I've raised some of the best stuff I I've ever grown in town. take my brother in law last time had to buy a tractor down there uh if anybody wants {X} beg for time he ain't got to even go to the warehouse {NW} he's our brother in law. He knows how to read Interviewer: yeah. 748: He specializes in truck {D: pulling} which I've raised a lot of truck stuff myself but he's raised it to sell. and he specializes in {D: truck pulling} and he raises uh he don't raise cotton he raises corn for sale {X} {X} he raise peas. different kinds of peas. in his garden he raises the hot potatoes sweet potatoes Interviewer: yeah what do you call them? 748: well hot potatoes is just a all I know we uh Interviewer: {X} 748: all I know is just ice cream Interviewer: yeah 748: a sweet potato is something you bake it and it uh it's good you know to eat raw I mean you just bake. Interviewer: {X} 748: hot potatoes are the {X} you have to cook them I mean have to boil in them. Interviewer: what different types of sweet potatoes? 748: well we've got several different types of them. we we used to have we used to have an old tin heavy foil well I'll just take a two. oh with Spanish yam and then we had uh what you call a yellow yam Interviewer: yeah 748: and then we got uh let me see red red potato just a red potato just a big ol' red potato Interviewer: yeah 748: and when it made why you could cook it it was good but if you bake a bunch of it it almost turned like cornbread through heating them red potatoes. Interviewer: yeah 748: yellow potatoes I told you about that they're good to bake you bake them they're good you kind of Interviewer: now what are yams? 748: what's a yam? Well all I know we just call them uh {NW} just uh potato {NW} pumpkin yam you know like that's just I don't know what the yam mean Interviewer: yeah you say pumpkin? 748: yeah pumpkin yam. and we raise a pumpkin now we raise a real pumpkin Interviewer: yeah 748: they're big they're big things Interviewer: yeah 748: and peel them {X} and cut them up cook them and make pie or anything else you want then just as as a as a as a dessert meal dessert or you make pie and things like that Interviewer: you're raising little red vegetables? 748: red vegetable well the only red vegetable I raised I raised beets beets is just uh a vegetable that comes up and the only way you and the only way that particular vegetable is used is is is is boiled get it good and done then you put {NW} vinegar and salt stuff like in it then {X} just like you buy a a beet pickled out of the store. cucumbers the same way cucumbers uh grow out on vines where you take them the cucumber seeds some folks take get little big ones and put them in vinegar shred them up and then you heat them with salt to take the eat them eat them raw if you wanted just take a little salt and {X} do it that way. Same thing about onions Interviewer: yeah 748: you take onions and Interviewer: #1 you got those little # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: fresh ones maybe 748: yeah onions in usually different ways you know we got up there we have there we have a a little bitty I call it a little {X} you might say. Interviewer: yeah 748: then they have the big onions that grow big you know and you can serve them eat them raw or you can cook them they they good cooked. Interviewer: yeah what kind of vegetables would you like in a soup? 748: in a soup? well I tell you what I like in a soup. best. I like uh say well like okra some okra Interviewer: yeah 748: {NW} and I like uh uh little little pepper be little pepper cut up in it street pepper or or hot pepper cut up in it and uh and a little uh well you might put a little lettuce or something like that in it that's about all I Interviewer: how much what do you raise how do you raise lettuce? How much do you raise? 748: lettuce? well you plant it down and it grows just like just like any other greens you know you you don't have to plant a whole lot you can plant a row or seven depends on a whole lot lettuce you need a lot of folks {X} some of them they just {X} the head up Interviewer: yeah 748: and just like the head up just like a {X} Interviewer: yeah 748: you just take that and get ready to serve it just cut it up and you can make pickles out of it you can make a salad out of it mix it with onions Interviewer: #1 yeah # 748: #2 tomatoes # put one thing on it or another make a salad out of it. Interviewer: you raise how many you raise you might go to the store and buy two 748: well uh Interviewer: if you're going to buy lettuce you go to the store and buy two 748: well if I want to go to the store and buy lettuce it depends I decide I want to make I want to use now I don't want to use say make a small salad then you get the small head of lettuce. Interviewer: but if you had a lot of people coming you might buy 748: a bigger head of lettuce. Interviewer: or you might buy two 748: that's right. you you buy two or bigger heads Interviewer: two what? 748: they come in head of lettuce they come in different sizes you you you can buy lettuce in different sizes Interviewer: yeah #1 but # 748: #2 like # just like you can buy a cabbage you can go to the store and buy the cabbage remember the head just like that then you get a good head like that. Like for a small fa- you going to small cook for a small family you get you a small head Interviewer: yeah 748: and if you want to cook for a big family get you a bigger head. Interviewer: you raise a lot? You raise a lot of 748: lettuce I mean uh lettuce Interviewer: #1 Ca # 748: #2 I raise a little bit sometimes # Interviewer: yeah you raise a lot of ca 748: cabbage? Interviewer: yeah 748: yeah I've raised some cabbage sometimes I was telling my I'm trying to grow some now said I almost went and planted some. to have some later so they {D: won't it won't but one time.} Interviewer: yeah. 748: see? growing some now I'm trying to get some of these some of these some of these plants I'm just finding some knives and set them out. Interviewer: #1 what # 748: #2 why he'll he'll he'll put a {X} # Interviewer: where all the what all the where all the ca 748: what's that? Interviewer: you say where all the cabbage will 748: #1 well # Interviewer: #2 cabbages will # 748: well the cabbage is just growing the head up I use it and then then and I I plant some so I can have some later you know we'll have some or or coming over the same time what I'm talking about. Interviewer: yeah. talking about the sides you'd say they these 748: well the sides of cabbage? Interviewer: yeah 748: the sides it varies now say take here it depends on uh the richest spots of the ground and the seeds don't get seeded on you've got to have the rain and the water and the temperature. and uh the fer on the to the fertility plant but maybe you have a big head here because it's a somehow another plant get a little more moisture a little more fertility or something and uh maybe that down there you can find up some more head and uh that that's due to the fact I reckon because you just didn't get enough fertility or something. Interviewer: how big do they get here? 748: What's that? Interviewer: do they get big here? 748: well they will grow big some of them you place them but some of them as I said a while ago. some of them cabbage grow big and some little. Interviewer: uh now you uh okay other vegetables you might raise you mentioned tomatoes you got them little 748: yeah we we we we uh we used to have those little oh you see I forget what you supposed to little deal with tomatoes Interviewer: huh? tommy? 748: I'm just trying to think of the source. Interviewer: yeah. You know what a #1 tommy # 748: #2 {X} # Interviewer: tommy toe? 748: no I don't know don't know it by name I'll just be honest with you. Interviewer: the little ol' tomatoes you ever hear tommy toe? Tomato? or what do they call those little ones? 748: well that's what I'm trying to think what we call those little tomatoes all I know right now Interviewer: yeah