Interviewer: Um Your name {B} your {B} 894: Oh {B} Interviewer: E-N-C-I 894: E-N-A-L E-N-C-I-N-A-L Encinal Interviewer: And the county {B} Uh-huh {NS} What what's the name of this community here 894: It's an well this is just a ranch here this is just a ranch #1 there's # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: No community this is My nearest neighbor is about a mile from here but Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And they lie across the road and uh {NS} Interviewer: You Would you consider this Encinal or 894: R-F-D Encinal I would so think Interviewer: F 894: R-F-D-U rural {X}{NS} Interviewer: Uh huh {B} That you live 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: How big is this ranch? It looks Is this light on both sides of the road 894: No just this side It's small{NS} It's uh two thousand acres Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um and where were you born? 894: I was born in {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Just about a mile away 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: And your age? 894: Uh seventy four Interviewer: And your occupation? {NS} 894: Well I'm retired now And I'm Rancher I should s- say now yes Interviewer: Mm-hmm Is that what you've always done Ranching 894: No I have had ranching Interests all along but I had #1 Further # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: Other positions I have uh Well the last one was a Mobil consignee at Encinal Mobil consignee for fifteen years Interviewer: Um what's that? Mob- 894: Mobil M-O-B-I-L Mobil oil corporation consignee Interviewer: What's con 894: Consignee that's consigned stuff to you you see C-O-N-S-I-G-N double E consignee Interviewer: Uh huh 894: Mobil would sign merchandise to me and I would sell it and send them the money for it Interviewer: Is Mobil a a big oil company in this area? 894: It's uh in the United States Mobil is a{NS} is about the I guess the second or third biggest oil company in the United States Interviewer: Hmm Is that related to Expo Do you know 894: It used to be a part of Exxon And they divided it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: You know they had the Standard {D: crust food} And Mobil used to be Magnolia and they'd buy the stock #1 It became # Interviewer: #2 Huh # 894: Mobil Interviewer: And your religion? 894: Uh I am a {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Is that what you've always been or {D: I noticed you still had said today is it} Um Tell me about your education You remember the The name of the first school you went to and then 894: I went to the Encinal {NS} Interviewer: Uh huh 894: Encinal School at that time we just ha- we just had a uh Two teacher school Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And there was uh Five or six in each uh Classes in each room Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NS} First I went into the Lower one and then Elevated into the higher one Interviewer: Mm-hmm How long did you go there through what grades 894: Uh tenth grade Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Did you get a chance to graduate from college then or 894: No I never Interviewer: Oh you didn't 894: #1 I never attended college # Interviewer: #2 From high school # Interviewer: Did Did you get a uh Chance to finish high school or 894: #1 Well at that time that was # (no speaker): #2 894: That was #1 It at Encinal # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Uh-huh 894: We had only the ten grades {NS} Smaller school {NS} Interviewer: What was Encinal like back then? 894: Almost like it was now It was a headquarters town Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: For a big ranching operation And the ranch Was T-A Coleman Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh He had Several hundred thousand acres under his Jurisdiction and dome {X}{NS} And uh Interviewer: Was this one person{NS} Mister Coleman or 894: Mm-hmm An individual Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NW} He uh Stayed at Encinal And hired all these people the Mexican people And his cowboys he'd bring his Is this what you want? Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: he'd bring uh his cattle The cowboys would uh Herd the cattle out on these ranches Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh bring them into Encinal Out to the shipping pens And ship them out from there To the Grass and Kansas and some place like that There they'd fatten them in that time Where every thing was grass {D: fat pig cat} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Eat meat And uh He had uh Four or five different uh Different uh Camps going And He had about Six or seven cowboys to each camp Interviewer: Mm-hmm What do you mean Camp?{NS} 894: Well it's two each uh The camp there's a Where these men {D: chipped wagon} And I had to cook Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh they had the Boss man which rode the horse with them And then all these other men Worked under this boss man Gathering the cattle and these big And open Pastures Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh There he uh Would gather them up and when he would Clear a pasture why he would bring his cattle to town {NW} Possibly he would take his His calves Off of the cows and cow op- part of the operation Take his calves off and Put them up and grow them out Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And those days why we Felt like that a steer To go to Kansas had to be two years old Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Because or older {NW} Has to #1 because # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} A two year old steer has two teeth Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh when you take him up to the grass pasture Why with two teeth his His teeth were uneven and he couldn't Eat and get fat so they preferred greatly To have three year olds #1 to go out to the grass # Interviewer: #2 Uh huh # 894: {NW} And uh He'd keep them here on this and grow them out {NS} And from there he went on up to Kansas Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Sold them in the fall or the year After a year and then he'd {D: hold grass} there To the Packing plants #1 mostly in # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Kansas City Interviewer: But this were they ships on rails 894: #1 Yeah they'd ship the rail # Interviewer: #2 Or # 894: At Encinal they had a big uh Rail and they'd take those cattle there and uh When I was a child why uh I would set up go there at times I'd have {NS} These box cars all not cattle cars all set out To take these cattle and go out we'd go out there And watch when they'd bring 'em in While they were wild and they would Have a I'd say a rodeo out there They'd have the ropes and the Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Finally they'd sometimes they'd get to milling And they would mill do you know what #1 mill # Interviewer: #2 What # 894: Milling is they go around in circles #1 You see # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh When these cattle get circling that away Why they won't go any place but just this circle And you can't pen them you can't do anything And the cattle {NW} Cowboys would have to go in there and break 'em up They'd have to try to {NS} And uh Then well they would put them into the pens And uh after they got them into the pens they would {NW} Put them in Different Uh Lots Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And they would just take them and assort them According to sizes and things like that and uh Put them in cars What kind of lots would they put them in? I mean Would Was the the lot very Big or Uh they would try to put them in uh according to the number of sizes they had and then afterwards they would cut them out maybe Course what they didn't have the pens to do this with So many cattle that they would cut them out In two or three different{NS} Pens Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And have each size you know more or less Which makes some of them larger and some smaller Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Then he would uh Take these and when he would start to ship Why he would go into one pen and he would Cut out maybe Twenty-five to thirty-two head according to the size Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Put it in the car and They would Spot another car and keep right on until he got it{NS} Maybe they'd be there Eight or ten hours loading cattle Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And was here taking them to the getting ready for the shipment Interviewer: How have things changed now? {NS} 894: Today well the trucking industry has taken over the Cattle #1 business # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: and uh The trucks go to the Ranches picks up the cattle And takes them to the markets Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Now only {D: Callehand} ranch down here Interviewer: How big is that ranch? 894: It's about a hundred thousand acres Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: I don't know exactly {NS} #1 but approximately # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh down there {NS} well they have their own trucks And they take these calves and when they Get to a certain stage {NW} Why they uh Well most of them weening They take them to California in their own trucks They have these Triple deck trucks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh They load them out and they'll That away we they used to take them in train And when they took them in train they would have to unload them Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: The there's a law that you could uh Have to take the cattle twenty four hours Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh after twenty four hours you'd have to unload them Unless you got a special permit They usually got a special permit and took them To Belen New Mexico And by #1 the Santa Fe # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: around that away And then have to unload them and let them rest up there All night And uh Take them into the feed locks Interviewer: Why would they make you unload them? 894: Be- to rest After thirty six hours standing up in the car and jolting them around and everything and they had to water them and #1 feed them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: You see And uh Now with these trucks within thirty six hours that's a minimum federal law that you can't Keep them #1 Over thirty six hours # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: without a rest Now that these trucks why they put them into California in less time than thirty six hours Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NW} Then They come back and ready for #1 another load # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And Interviewer: Why do they take them to California now instead to the Midwest? 894: They take them to California because the cattle today are all cattle that are fed Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Fed cattle That they have out in California you know They have those {NW} Fields possibly this is not They have the fields that they grow Alfalfa on #1 to grow vegetables # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And when the vegetables after three years They have to Switch to Uh A crop like alfalfa that will open up the soil because it becomes this water getting on it gets {NS} so hard that they Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: and that puts the humus in the soil the roots of the alfalfa and they have to grow it and there's lots of alfalfa and they take the cattle out there on account of the feed being there available {NS} And uh {NS} And then they uh {NS} Have to ship in their concentrates and things and #1 feed them grain and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: maybe soy bean meal {D: protein} meal or whatever{NS} #1 they have available # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: and feed them out and put them on the market Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And the buyers from Los Angeles come into come into the Mark his place his his feed lot is in {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And they'd co- come out there and they buy so many cattle they say we want so many cattle they want them to grades so and so Mm-hmm {NS} And uh So They buy them by Dead weight they take them and uh And butcher them And Hang them up on the Hooks And the on the rail they call it Out in the {D: morning} there {NS} And then they Pay them so much a pound for the meat Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} That away why they Keep their things {D: turning}{NS} Interviewer: Hmm Quick second um{NS} {X} Do you click{NS} 894: Uh {NS} Here is uh where we're burning prickly pear to feed the cattle. During the drought of the seasons the cattle come to the sound of the {D: Paraburner we call it a paraburner which is a} torch Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Filled with butane or propane gas and we scorch the thorns off and the cattle eat the uh prickly pear{NS} {NS} Interviewer: That's a kind of a cactus? {NW} 894: {D: Actually it's not} Aux: Oh wow {NS} #1 {NS}I'm gonna show her the cactus picture # 894: #2 # Aux: #1 Just like just like that out there{NS} # 894: #2 # Aux: Now we We grow we feed it most every winter {D: Oh no we} darling I thought I had a picture of this Here it is {D: That's your unobtainable} and that's a closeup picture {NS} Interviewer: Oh that's so pretty{NS} Aux: {D: Something it is when it's one man}{NS} Cause it blooms in them April{NS} About the starts about the Tenth to the fifteen Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: {D: Hold this for you} {D: Hang on} Interviewer: You just Burn the 894: Burn the thorns off The the Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: What do ya call them stickers Or #1 whatever you wanna call them # Aux: #2 Yes mm-hmm # 894: #1 And uh # Aux: #2 {D:Oh and my guess is the} # 894: There is one of the uh {NS} There's one of the machines you see on my back there Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh has a little Three gallon tank filled up with propane Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Whenever that's emptied up or we go back and refill it and start over again and it takes about {NW} three gallons will feed about ten cattle Interviewer: How many cattle This is your ranch here that you live on? 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: How many cattle can you have? How many acres does it take to support one cow? 894: In this country we uh used to figure we could uh it took {NS} twenty acres #1 but today # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: we've got it cut down to fifteen and some people have it as low as seven {NW} On account of the uh{NS} {NW} On account of the grasses planted #1 This pasture here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: now you see that has been rootplowed what we call rootplowed {NW} #1 That's # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: run a They run a big D eight Caterpillar tractor Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Under the ground up with a with a blade on the back of it And it cuts it all of that goes under the ground You're not plowing it and All of the Top vegetation is lifted out Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh that uh way it uh clings it out #1 and gives # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: more room for grass and it doesn't the grass doesn't have to compete with the vege- the the forage of the mesquite {NS} #1 and things # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And Interviewer: This These little shrub likes That's that's mesquite there? 894: Some of it is mesquite And some is we had a Mesquite and then we have a Blackbrush {NW} We have Wahoo Blackbrush. Cattle {D: brows} on that and then #1 we have the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: black uh Wahoo big {D: brows} on that Interviewer: What's a Wahoo? 894: Wahoo it's a plant something Well there's none of it here but it's uh Just a long Leaf plant Has a long leaf and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Big one and uh They uh Hunt it out and it's high in protein Very high #1 in protein # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # 894: And uh Here's one of my beefmaster cattle {NW} He's some sour bull And uh Interviewer: How how much does he weigh? 894: He will weigh about Uh close to a ton Two thousand pounds pretty mighty close To two thousand pounds Interviewer: What kind is he? He's 894: #1 He's a crossbred # Interviewer: #2 Not angus # 894: Beefmaster he's crossbred cattle {NW} In this country they have gone so much to crossbreeding Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: On account of uh{NS} high breed {D: big year} {NW} We uh {NS} That Beefmaster bull is supposed to be a cross {NW} Between uh {NW} Between Say a Hereford Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And a And Brahma they have to have a little {NS} Brahma in them for this country on account of the The ability to walk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And Interviewer: Withstand heat? Or 894: Withstand heat they uh Claim that the Brahma you know sweats through the skin that's the only Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Cattle maybe you've been told #1 already # Interviewer: #2 Mm-mm # 894: And uh they sweat through the skin while they have these other cattle Like the Hereford cattle there {NW} #1 Why she # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: will Sweat for Through the nose {X} {NS} Interviewer: Why do you call it beefmaster? 894: Beefmaster it was a patented name that they have gotten for that cattle these cattle were {NW} Originated down here in Falfurrias Texas Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Mister Lassiter now that he's in Colorado {NW} But they are being raised on account of the uh tonnage. They get so #1 much more tonnage # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: out of one of these Interviewer: He is big 894: Hmm? Interviewer: He is big 894: Mm-hmm And the calves why they {NS} There's a picture of them {NS} by a Hereford cow and you can see how much taller he is than {NS} #1 Hereford # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 {NS} # Interviewer: #2 # Are Brahmas mean? 894: {NW} Brahmas If uh {NS} They're a very nervous type of cattle and #1 they are # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Mean if you cross them {NW} But you can Aux: {D: Just take them} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: You can uh take the Brahma cattle And uh {NS} Breed a whole lot of that meanness out of them as long as you don't Get them crossed up Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Here's three magazines maybe you would like to take with you Thanks These are now old ones but Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: They're Ranch magazines are never 894: Kind of Aux: old I mean if you have #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # Aux: There's a Brahma there you know #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: And this is the The {D: Santa good tradition} #1 you know that much # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: #1 {NS} # Interviewer: #2 # Aux: Originated on a King ranch Interviewer: Was it? Aux: Mm-hmm They they that's a Only American breed Interviewer: Hmm Yes I'd like to Aux: Yes you may have a uh-huh 894: The beefmaster is #1 an American breed too # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 and here's a # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 Picture # Aux: #2 I guess the # 894: #1 Of uh the way # Aux: #2 First American {D: great pen} # 894: The cowboys Would bring the cattle into the #1 Markets # Aux: #2 {D: Markets} # Interviewer: Did do they still have cowboys now like they used to? 894: Not so much #1 Not so much # Aux: #2 That's a # 894: because You can't find anybody to work anymore {X} Aux: Inviting those to the to the {NS} pens to ship out Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: These cattle here or has the picture taken along #1 they're dry # Aux: #2 their skin # 894: #1 the cattle # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: going in{NS} And here's the old pen before they were torn down you see the man in there sorting the cattle the horseback #1 Trying # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: to get this In there Aux: {X}{NS} 894: And here's another one that they I think they're loading cattle there {NS} into the {NS} Pen into the {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Railroad cars 894: Railroad cars {NS} The this is {NW} Nothing maybe it's pertaining {NS} there's my wife's sister feeding a a cow Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: #1 Some cattle # Aux: #2 All of our cattle # 894: and some cubes cattle cubes #1 We we # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: take our cattle and feed them cattle cubes Right along because it uh {NW} It {D: Channels} them #1 and whenever # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: we go out in the pasture They will come to us instead of us having to go and hunt #1 them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And bring them up Interviewer: What's a cattle cube? 894: Cattle cube is a protein feed that's been concentrated Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: This Just a 894: Just a little cube maybe {NS} about like my thumb {NS} there #1 About # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Three quarters To {NS} An inch{NS} {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm{NS} {NS} 894: Square{NS} {NS} In{NS} {NS} Different lengths Aux: Fits just like a {X} 894: We use the #1 three quarters # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: for creep feeding And also half inch half inch {NW}{NS} is more or less like a{NS} p- looks like a little old pellet You know{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm{NS} You use the three quarters for {NS} 894: Creep feeding That's creep cattle we call it creep{NS} but the cattle creep into a feeder there You take it they have uh {NS} They have uh A Pen {NS} And uh {NW} It's all closed in Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And we leave openings for these Calves to go in during #1 feed and keep # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: the cattle out so we can {NW} See that our cattle I mean our calves get the creep feed #1 And our # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: cows we feed them separately on #1 our # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 894: Own And uh {NS} Interviewer: Tell me some about your family Um Were they Born here or 894: {NW} My father Came to this country I'll say country because not to Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: But uh he came here and {NS} And uh Seventy eight eighteen seventy eight Interviewer: How old was he? 894: Eighteen years old he came here horseback Interviewer: {NW} Where did he come from?{NS} 894: He came from{NS} Ar- Around Gonzalez Texas Interviewer: Is that where he was born? Gonzales 894: I think so I'm not sure but Interviewer: Uh-huh What about your mother? Where was she born? 894: She was born the same place Interviewer: Gonzales 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: She came with him then into the South 894: No {NS} they they came separate my father came horseback here #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: He went to work for an uncle of mine that had a big ranch here Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: That time they were in the sheep business{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: And they had lots of sheep and cattle{NS} And uh{NS} {NS} Aux: Very large it's a cattle{NS} This is for the babies Interviewer: Oh I see Just a few more dishes{NS} {NW}{NS} Aux: Some of them are roped up{NS} Here's another one Hold these Here's some It tells you about some of these animals I mean you know how they were There's one that cross that Hoffman with the European cattle you know Those funny names that they love {NS} #1 I don't think I've # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: got any #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Huh # Um Your how old was your mother when she came here? 894: I really don't know but uh They first ca- went to Cotulla Cotulla's the county seat of #1 La Salle County # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh she married in Cotulla And And S- Seventy four Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Eighteen seventy four Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh {NS} Interviewer: What was her maiden name? 894: {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Have {NS} Have you been very active in Um Clubs or church or anything like that 894: Do what Interviewer: Have you been very active in clubs or 894: No no Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We have no clubs and nothing here of course we have our little church But I'm not #1 really # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: active in it Interviewer: What about traveling? 894: Traveling {NW} Well I love to travel {NW} Interviewer: Where have you been? 894: I have been to My wife has a brother in Portland Oregon and we go out there quite often Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh we go But Most of the Western states #1 is where we do # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: most of our traveling We have been to Yellowstone and And uh {NS} That airport there what is it uh Yellowstone and we've been to Grand Canyon #1 and we've been # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: All out in the Western And to uh And Portland Interviewer: Mm-hmm Just visiting just for few weeks or 894: Yeah and uh Interviewer: {D: Which} Let's see You grew up in Encinal 894: Yes I left Encinal when I was eighteen years old Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Where did you go? 894: I went to Fort Worth Texas {NS} And I Fort Worth I went to a business college there Interviewer: Oh you did 894: Yes Interviewer: What was the name of the business college 894: Draw {B} {X} {B} And uh Interviewer: How long did you go there 894: I went there possibly I don't know six {NS} maybe maybe five six months I don't know{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: And I Got me up a a job Call it a job because it wasn't a position Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh{NS} Working as a Typist Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh I worked In a whole sale drug house #1 In Fort Worth # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 894: And from there I went to {NS} Amarillo Texas Interviewer: How long were you in Fort Worth in all? Uh About two years in Fort Worth Mm-hmm 894: #1 I all I also # Interviewer: #2 Then you went # 894: worked at other places besides that{NS} {NW} I worked at a whole sale drug house and I worked in a In a whole sale lumber yard Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh And then from there I went to Amarillo My brother was manager Of the Ber- {B} And I went to Amarillo to work with with he with he Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And {NW} From So I worked there and went into the office I went in as a shipping clerk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And as shipping clerk I later became a became office manager Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And from office manager I went on the road and stayed on the road a while And uh Interviewer: What do you mean you went on the road 894: Road is traveling salesman Interviewer: Uh-huh Were were you gone where did you get to go 894: Oh I went out mostly in New Mexico #1 And {D: middle of Texas} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Boise I went up into Boise boy City out #1 Oklahoma # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And went out to uh {NW} Roswell New Mexico and uh Went over to Carlesbad #1 New Mexico # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Carlesbad Cavern I've Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Been there and uh Interviewer: Just for a few weeks at a time and then you'd go back to Amarillo 894: Yes mm-hmm Interviewer: Mm-hmm Amarillo was headquarters and going back How long did you stay in Amarillo in all 894: Amarillo I stayed about eight years Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NS} I worked for {D: Burrows} {NS} We sold a A machine to International Harvester Company Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And at that time they called it a moon Hopkins machine And I installed it And Instead of going back to {D: Burrows} I stayed with International Harvester for about two years Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} And I resigned from International Harvester Planning on going back to {D: Burrows} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Going to Little Rock Arkansas but I {NS} Went to work then for a corporation there City drug stores of Amarillo Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We had six drug stores and I went to work for them {NW} And uh That's where I met my wife And uh So We uh We had these drug stores and I became {NW} Blind And couldn't #1 see I had # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # 894: too much strain on my eyes I {NW} #1 unfortunately # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: just have one eye Interviewer: Oh 894: And uh Using it for bookkeeping work was #1 Quite a strain # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Under artificial lights all day So after that why we came back to Encinal And I went to work on a ranch here Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um When did you move out to Uh Now you're living in in Webb County When did you 894: Move out here Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Uh I moved out here about a year ago Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} We uh Went and bought this little this trailer house Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And moved it out here and then came out here #1 to live in it # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # You were living in the city limits of Encinal 894: Yes Interviewer: {X} Um What about um You tell me about your parents Do you know about their education How far they got in school or 894: No I'm sure they didn't go very far But I don't know how #1 far because # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: uh {NW} At those times the facilities of schooling #1 wasn't like they are today # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Mm-hmm 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Could could your parents read and write 894: #1 Oh yes they could # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 894: read and write and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Everything my Interviewer: What's Excuse me 894: My father he uh Very good at figures #1 course not no # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: nothing extra but uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: He worked as a contractor at one time {NW} Building Dirt tanks with mules and dried scrapers Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh {NW} He would get through building one of his tanks why he would Take a #1 lot # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: a level Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And he would uh get the height and all the dimensions of the dam and Figure it out how many yards it was and collect for it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {X} Interviewer: Did he Ever do any other kind of work besides contracting 894: Well uh ranching Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: This was his ranch at one time He bought this ranch in nineteen twelve And uh he bought another ranch out there {NS} and uh{NS} He and my brother {NS} and my brother he uh {NS} Took over that when my father came over here {NS} #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} He uh He died moderately young {NS} Course no I wouldn't say moderately young he died at seventy two #1 Because he had his # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: three score and ten years Interviewer: {NW} 894: But uh {NS} So he uh{NS} {NS} Died about the de- just before the depression Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh He was a hard working man and he was a {NS} He was a man that uh Understood the World and he was a worldly man Interviewer: Mm-hmm And uh{NS} He was at one time a deputy sheriff Mm-hmm 894: And uh Dimmit County Interviewer: Where's Dimmit County? 894: Dimmit County is Carrizo Springs Texas That's where I joined this county and the ranches you see #1 It was on the ranch # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: up there where {NW} And their ranch came all the way into here #1 you see # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: {NS} This Interviewer: And people used to have {NS} Ranches a whole lot bigger than they have now 894: Oh yes the ranches were much larger Interviewer: What what would be a average size for back then 894: Oh I wouldn't know but Mister Coleman you take it uh from {D: Lorena to Tatarina} My guess is uh Three hundred miles {NW} And they could say you could get on his land and never get off and go to {D: Catarina} Interviewer: Three hundred miles 894: And uh Interviewer: {X} 894: It's almost unbelievable but uh He had uh course he didn't own all that #1 land but he would # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: maybe skip and maybe Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: Catch another place Interviewer: His his family doesn't isn't 894: His family uh he has a daughter eleven and In {D: Atleet} Texas that's #1 about seven miles # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: from Encinal Interviewer: Does do they still own land 894: They still own land but nothing like they did he went broke Interviewer: Mm 894: And uh After he went broke why within six months he was dead Interviewer: Mm 894: And uh He uh Had lots of cattle Lots of horses and lots of mules {NS} Everything hogs And he developed uh some kind of {NS} {NS} Some kind of an irrigation project {NS} over at uh At uh they call it {D: Cometa} #1 {D: Cometa} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: that was his brand in this town #1 He named it after his # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: brand And so {NS} He spent a lot of money on that and then the price of cattle you know break in why #1 It uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Broke in Interviewer: When the depression came 894: No no that's way before the depression It uh must have been about nineteen Aux: Twenty three 894: Nineteen twenty three was that when he #1 Mm-hmm # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Nineteen twenty three Interviewer: Hmm What about your mother did she ever work 894: No She worked plenty alright but she had uh She had nine children Interviewer: {NW} Um {NS} What about your grandparents on your mother's side Where were they from {NS} 894: They were from Fayette County I think Interviewer: Fayette That's 894: F-A-Y-E double T E Fayette{NS} {NS} Interviewer: That's where Gonzales is 894: That's right it's a joining county right there close to it Interviewer: Uh huh 894: And uh Interviewer: You think they both were born there in Fayette County 894: Well they were they were neighbors I know #1 I don't know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Possibly so my Grandfather Car he was also over there and {NS} Interviewer: Your your grandfather Car was from Fayette County? 894: Yes Interviewer: What about your grandmother 894: Well she was from over there too {NS} Interviewer: Uh-huh{NS} {NS} 894: #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 She was in McCoy # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # Oh she was 894: What Interviewer: She was in McCoy 894: McCoy {NS} And uh {NS} She was {NS} One of the old rough and tumbling McCoys of the old days Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh Interviewer: When did when did the McCoys come down to Texas {NS} 894: Oh I don't know I don't know Interviewer: They came down from Kentucky was it or 894: I really don't know #1 I really don't know # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: but uh My grandfather Car I know he uh He went with uh General Scott when he went into Mexico Interviewer: Hmm {NS} 894: And uh {NS} He uh {NS} They went over there {NS} and when they went over there They had trouble finding their ways and they came back to Texas Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And they got some of these young Texas men To go over there and scout for them #1 And show them the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: way and he happened to be one of them {NW} And uh I have a Letter that he wrote Saying that uh He was one of the first to be issued One of the old {D: coal} pistols At that time {NW} He uh They tested it out on #1 that trip in # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And uh {NW} He came back And after he came back why he met {NW} His Hester Hester McCoy And that's who uh he married And uh Those people there and before they uh Before why I think that they were kind of chased out of over there What the uh he was in Texas before the Texas was a state #1 His people were # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh They were run out of there by {D: Santa Anna} and his men #1 Or some of those and uh # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: I don't know whatever I don't know too much of that but uh Interviewer: Your your grandfather's people were from Grandfather Car his people were in Texas 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: {NS} Do you know if they were born in Texas or 894: I imagine he wasn't born in Texas I don't know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Because you know the uh That time they were just beginning to s- #1 Might say settle # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Texas {NW} My father if he was was born in sixty Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: So my grandfather Car he wasn't the oldest child Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Naturally why he would be And the Mexican Revolution when was that in I don't know{NS} But uh Someplace in #1 there right along # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: in that time Independent Texas #1 independence # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # {NW} What um Sort of work did your your grandfather Car and his wife do 894: {NW} He was uh more or less a trader he bought and sold cattle and uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: He didn't do too much of it I don't know what he did but uh From here he went to El Paso Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: In this country my father followed him out there and he Had My father was in the sheep business Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh He uh Took his sheep and went out there {NS} And uh {NS} Free range is talking about free range and free range and he wanted to {NS} His father told him that it was Golden opportunity so my father took his sheep that he had accumulated {NW} And uh went out there And in going in into there there's a little more Texas history here He ran into old John Bean Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Jean Bean he wanted to charge him so much{NS} For each sheep that he crossed he had a crossing Interviewer: {NW} 894: On the Pecos River Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And of course my father he didn't have any money{NS} Come out to anything at least And uh he couldn't pay it and So he went over there With John Bean and he got uh Drinking a little bit with him Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} And uh So he uh {NS} So he Told the boys one day after he'd been there for some little while Says you go over And start crossing those sheep says I'm going over and And uh Get old man Bean drunk #1 So they went over there # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: and they got Drinking and he got his sheep across and took them on across And went across without paying any fees {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: And It has been said that he was one of the few men that had outsmarted old #1 John Bean # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: Course you've heard of John Bean old west of the Pecos And uh It was the Pecos River #1 that he had the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: took the sheep over So he went on out to El Paso on with his sheep And uh When he When he got out there why Things were not as they were Looked to be #1 so he went # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Broke Interviewer: {NW} 894: All of his sheep died they got some kind of a disease #1 in amongst them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 and they died # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: He came back to Texas To Encinal this country Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And went to work on a big ranch as a cow boss Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And from there why mister Buckley And uh From there why he uh Started accumulating and Got these Equipment Ready and went to make building these tanks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And he took up Lived out this {D: schooling} Texas {D: schooling} You know he took up four sections out here on Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: {D: Callehand} ranch and lived it out and uh {NS} He uh {NS} After he got it all lived out and everything Why he sold it and got a little money and bought these two places here Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Interviewer: What do you mean after he got it lived{NS} 894: Well after at that You had to live on your land for Two or three years and make a certain Amount of improvements #1 on it # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: In order to be {NS} Eligible Interviewer: The homesteading 894: #1 Homesteading # Interviewer: #2 Oh # 894: that's what it was #1 Homesteading # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh He Cleared Cleared out a little land out there and #1 Farmed it and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: things like that which was one of the requirements #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: He uh Afterwards why he Caterpillars and things that came in and they can build One of these tanks in one day that #1 would take him # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: thirty days to build With mules And teams Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh That away why He went Looking for other kinds of work and Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} What um What sort of education did your Grandfather Car and his wife has Have 894: I don't know I suppose they just possibly had uh May I would say a Grammar school education or maybe high school #1 I don't know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # What about um Your mother's parents they were from Fayette County 894: That's where they came here from Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They were They were people That uh The greetings whose uh I understand it were {NS} Some of the people that was imported The men that was im- {NS} Ported here To uh To marry some of these Tex- some of the Girls #1 over here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: because that exposure must have been {NS} {D:a circus} #1 And he uh # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # #1 So they came down here then # 894: #2 And they # They He came to the United States now where he {NS} and he didn't I don't think to this country no I think he came to Alabama or some place {NS} Over in there I don't really don't know where but uh Interviewer: He came from Alabama 894: {NS} He came from England to #1 Alabama # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And uh they were English Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh So I really don't know the Interviewer: Mm-hmm What um You think they were born in Fayette County or that's where they {NS} 894: I don't think so Interviewer: Uh-huh{NS} {NS} 894: I think that my {NS} I think that they came here from Alabama Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Your grandmother too 894: Yes Interviewer: What about their education Would you guess they 894: Uh Possibly grammar school because In those days they didn't have the #1 facilities # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: of education we have today Interviewer: What sort of work did your mother's parents do {NS} 894: Well he was uh he died at a very young age Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: My Mother's father And the boys they carried on and I don't know what they did they Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They tried to raise cattle and #1 sheep and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: hogs and things like that Interviewer: Just something to do with ranch 894: And the farming and ranching yes Interviewer: What was your Mother's Mother Maiden name Your grandmother's maiden name {NS} 894: O'Bar yeah Interviewer: O 894: O B-A Capital B-A-R-O apostrophe I guess B-A-R O'Bar Interviewer: Uh-huh Where what country is that 894: O'Bar they uh They're an an Irish name Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: They came I suppose originally from Ireland Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um Do you know where your {NS} The Cars originally came from {NS} 894: They're supposed to have Been from Ireland too I think Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about the McCoys? 894: McCoys {NS} I guess the same #1 thing I guess # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: #1 Ireland # Interviewer: #2 Ireland # 894: The breedings they were English #1 And I think the other # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: part were all Irish Interviewer: What about your wife how old is she 894: How old are you honey Aux: {D: in two weeks} seventy-four 894: Seventy-four Interviewer: And 894: {X} Interviewer: Huh 894: She's not she's seventy-three Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} Is she Methodist too 894: No she belongs to first Christian church Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} What about her education {NS} 894: Well she has a I suppose a grammar school education she Interviewer: Eighth grade or 894: {X} Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {D: Shelia} Her mother died when she was a little girl she had {NS} Help with family Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Things like that Is she very active in church or clubs or No Interviewer: #1 Things like that # 894: #2 No we're not # Interviewer: #1 # 894: #2 # Interviewer: Where was she born 894: She was born in Missouri where abouts in Missouri honey Aux: Born in Christian County 894: Christian County #1 Missouri # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 # Aux: #2 # Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # Aux: #2 {X} # {X} They had a a flower mill a water #1 You know on the # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: On the James River in Missouri Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: And that's uh about seventeen miles out of Springfield Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: Springfield Missouri uh-huh And that My father and mother both died Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Real young my mom was real young Interviewer: #1 Whe- # Aux: #2 {X} # Not much about them because we left there when I was about eight years old Interviewer: Mm-hmm Where where was um Your parent where were your parents from #1 Missouri # Aux: #2 M- my # Uh-huh my father was was born here uh {X} {NS} Saint Jones of Missouri a little town in Maysville And my mother was born I never did know the town where she was born but but she always said uh {NS} Oh Illinois Now I can't remember #1 the county now # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: in Illinois she always called it the county and {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm #1 Um # Aux: #2 And that's # And my papa {X} we were Scotch Irish and Dutch Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Now we're now we're at my grandfather on my father's side came to {NS} To Missouri {X} A boy nineteen years old from Ireland Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And the and the grandmother On his mother Was from Holland And they settled in Pennsylvania Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: When the And that's Why my parents both dying why you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: You don't keep up with them so well When they're living that's why they live to be a hundred and {NS} Hundred and one years old Interviewer: A hundred and one Aux: Why yes 894: #1 A hundred one # Aux: #2 Uh-huh # 894: years eight months and {NS} {NS} About twenty days Aux: I think yeah and that you know #1 You get # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # Aux: He doesn't remember much about He just loves to play with marbles {NW} {D: And play out the horseshoes} Ride his horse he He doesn't remember much about What they did whenever they were when he was a youngster Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um {NS} You don't speak Spanish do you 894: Uh yes I do Interviewer: You Did you grow up speaking Spanish 894: Yes I did {NS} People asked me how I learned Spanish and I ask them how they learned English I learned Spanish the same way they learned English but Aux: #1 Well he had a Spanish maid # 894: #2 Out with the Spanish people # Aux: #1 # 894: #2 # Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: That his mother kept all the time 894: {X} Interviewer: Did uh what about your parents did they speak 894: My father spoke Spanish my mother she could understand and had what we called kitchen Spanish She knew things that #1 would come up # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: in the household Aux: Housemaid {X} {NS} Interviewer: What um was how fluent was your father in Spanish was did he grow up speaking it 894: {NW} #1 I don't know but I imagine so # Aux: #2 I imagine he did # 894: because he could speak it he was very fluent in Aux: He lived here #1 He came here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: At Encinal before the railroads and everything In nineteen and eighty four Interviewer: Mm-hmm{NS} {NS} Eighteen eighty four Aux: Uh yeah eighteen I was way ahead {NW} Interviewer: Um Aux: {NW} Interviewer: You You had a a Spanish maid When you were 894: Yes we always had a maid in In the kitchen She Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: She washed the dishes and sweeped the house and maked the beds and things like that Interviewer: Did you have a maid to take care of you when you were little 894: No no we Interviewer: #1 Didn't have the # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 the nana # 894: #2 We # Aux: What 894: What Interviewer: What's it called the the nana You didn't have Aux: Not like a nanny you mean in English Then No Well they had someone all the time in the house His mother wanted to go somewhere well they spent Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: What do you call it Interviewer: This nana or something like that the the maid that takes care of the children 894: Oh #1 Know # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm that # 894: What it is Aux: I don't know #1 Either # 894: #2 You got to # Interviewer: {NW} But {X} Tell me about the the Spanish here did Did most people here grow up speaking both Spanish and English 894: Yes mo- we boys here in Encinal all Almost always spoke Spanish #1 Between ourselves # Aux: #2 But lots of girls # Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh I don't know why but I think we found it a little bit easier to #1 To # Aux: #2 We didn't have any more # Their playmates mostly were Spanish 894: #1 And uh # Aux: #2 You know # 894: #1 to carry on a conversation # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: in Spanish #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And of course they Everybody talked Spanish Aux: Not everybody 894: Well the the All of the boys that I{NS} Aux: #1 Yeah uh-huh # 894: #2 And uh # Aux: But lots of girls I know didn't speak Spanish 894: No no well some of them didn't speak it #1 As good as others # Aux: #2 Yeah you know well # 894: {NW} But uh We uh We learned Spanish and we Talked it and we s- I studied it some in school #1 And I've been # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: studying it ever since because I Our {D: Loredo} paper has a Spanish section in it and I try to read it just for Trying to {NS} Keep up with it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Thing And uh We would play marbles with the Mexican boys we played baseball with them We'd fight with them and #1 Everything like # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That you know just like kids do in any {NW} Whether they're red white or blue it's {NW} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We That's the way we were there was no uh discrimination #1 In that way # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: between us Aux: But you didn't go to the {NS} same school oh #1 They had a Spanish # 894: #2 They had separate schools # Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: {NW} What um percentage would you say of Um Population in Encinal was Was actually uh First generation Mexican Or Aux: Do you mean by Mexicans from Mexico Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: Oh I don't know Interviewer: Or people who 894: Most of the people the Spanish people there the Mexicans as we called them The Latins {NS} #1 Why they uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: They were Reared on this side Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They were Part that we I guess inherited in the {NS} When we uh took made Texas Um An independent Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Republic and then They lived here and made families and they stayed here #1 And that's where they're # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: from They never did learn any English To amount to anything up until now they're beginning to learn a little Some of them Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: #1 Don't care # Aux: #2 No # 894: about going to school and they not learning Interviewer: So when when you were young If someone wanted to come here to work In a store or something like that Chances are they'd have to be speaking Spanish 894: Yes Most of the time Just like {D: Loredo} might say now Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {D: Loredo} you when you have to speak Spanish in order to work there Interviewer: Mm-hmm Did um {X} {D: Loredo's} about Thirty Thirty miles from here or 894: Thirty-eight miles from Encinal Yeah not{NS} Forty miles Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: But then And when he was boy with dirt roads Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: It took a Day and a half maybe to go there by A Wagon you know or buggie 894: We went We went with trains #1 Whenever we went # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Did you go very often 894: Not very often Interviewer: Which was the bigger town Encinal or {D: Loredo} Aux: {NW} {D: Loredo's} like a 894: Encinal Encinal has never been nothing but a cow town Interviewer: Uh-huh It's just been a Headquarter for these ranches 894: #1 All of their # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: cowboys and things had their family there in Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And {D: Loredo} was Was quite a Different {D: Loredo} back there in those days I guess Had ten or twelve thousand where Encinal maybe had a thousand Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Maybe more than that I don't know what {D: Loredo} had but Aux: I don't remember #1 When we came here # 894: #2 We uh # Aux: I believe {D: Loredo's} About twenty-five thousand forty-five years ago 894: #1 We uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 {NS} # Interviewer: #2 # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 894: We'd go to {D: Loredo} when I was a boy and Our bicycles were a nickel an hour And ride it and maybe ride across the river #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And the little Mexican boys Maybe I shouldn't tell this but They would curse us you know #1 about # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: being gringos and that So we uh Interviewer: About being what 894: Gringos #1 That's what they` # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Called Americans they used To And uh {NS} Aux: They still do 894: We'd make one out like we didn't know what they were saying course we understood it we could #1 Talk Spanish # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: As good our guess they could #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: But we they weren't looking for any trouble especially across that river Because you get in trouble over there you're really in trouble Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And We'd ride around on bicycles and come back Turn it in after our nickel was used up #1 Or something or # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: And uh We Streets wasn't paved in those days and #1 bicycle riding # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: was a little bit harder than it is now Interviewer: {NW} {NS} Um I'd like to get an idea of what the House that you grew up in looked like Could You sort of make a sketch of the floor plan and Tell me the just{NS} Where the rooms were{NS} 894: You wanna make it Sketch on Aux: Wait just a {NS} Before he was born it was one little room And a lean-to you know what a #1 lean-to is # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: don't you Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Like this porch is leaning to the desk you know And then His father I if I would have talked to hi- hi- his mother and father I was with him more and he #1 was after we came # 894: #2 {X} # Aux: #1 After we came here # 894: #2 {D: I'll make} # Aux: #1 I'll make this is what I'm making now # 894: #2 To this # Aux: This is one little room #1 And then as the the family got larger # 894: #2 {X} # Aux: Why they uh #1 Added rooms # 894: #2 Expanded # Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: Uh-huh {X} Mister Car said Always he added #1 a room # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Aux: every time he had a child born #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Well # 894: I said so I can't Aux: And that was three This was three rooms here We see all these four rooms I got that And big portraits you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Here's the kitchen Dining room Master bedroom A family 894: I guess I got that a little bit out of proportion there Aux: {X} 894: This isn't the room here And here's the This is all porch Aux: Bedroom Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: {X} {X} 894: And uh Interviewer: What did you call this room here Aux: Here 894: Well when that was put on there we called it the sitting room Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Well that's what your father said{NS} {X}{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: They All straight along here and #1 then they had # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: {X} Oh I forgot that's the little hole between here Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: This way And then this it was a bath there Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And a big porch Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Did you get in the bath I forgot it 894: Yeah Aux: And there's a {NW} {NS} That the porch 894: No this is a bedroom Aux: Well that's not right Cause that There was a porch one out here off this little Hall and 894: Here's the porch Aux: Oh{NS} Oh Well I've got a better plan {NW} I forgot the bed This little room here I ain't ever did Makes it kind of a storage and #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: And then after Mister Car died why Misses Car Rented this part out #1 She made an apartment out # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: she put a little Indoor I mean a little cabinet #1 And # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: Water and everything and was very neat and nice and She rented it to schoolteachers people who #1 Came you know # Interviewer: #2 Huh # Aux: #1 And # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: {X} lived out of town And when we came here we lived there Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: When we came to this country {X} she called all the newlyweds way up there Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: He had a cousin that was marrying {X} uh Several schoolteachers And now a little family from Catulla they had branches out Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: On the fritter highway And they lived there Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} What What are these drawings now what 894: Kitchen K {NS} D R dining room B R bedroom Parlor I wrote that out This is a Interviewer: That's what you'd call the sitting room huh 894: #1 Yes # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 And lean-to I wrote on # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 there but this is # Aux: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 a # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: This is a bedroom Aux: But that part of his off the room the room off the dininga hall had a big fireplace in it #1 And Misses Car had her bed in there # 894: #2 Bedroom # Aux: #1 And that's where # 894: #2 Mister # Aux: when we'd all go visit that's where we all #1 Stayed # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: And sat in there and talked that's what I called it really #1 Family room in mine # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: But she had a bed in there 894: Bedroom and this is a hall here Interviewer: What's this thing 894: Yeah no it's a bed bath B Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh We take it to kitchen The dining room And bedroom And parlor And uh Aux: Pretty modern for the times #1 And location # 894: #2 You take it this # This room here My brother was born in here and if he were living he would be about what Aux: #1 Eighty-two # 894: #2 Eighty # Aux: #1 the first day of June # 894: #2 Eighty-two # Aux: he'd be eighty-two 894: He'd be eighty-two years old and he was born in this room here Interviewer: Hmm 894: That's how old that uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Old house the old house still in Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: I sold it {X} {NS} And uh Aux: He gave part of the {X}{NS} Great big {NS} {X}{NS} to the Baptist church {NS} Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: For them to be able to church Interviewer: What what would you call um This Parlor or sitting room what would you call it nowadays Aux: I'd call it a living room 894: I guess so a living room isn't that what you call #1 What do you call # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: Yes where were we The people who bought it I mean Or rented it we rented it quite a while before #1 We sold it # 894: #2 They built all # Aux: #1 # 894: #2 # They built that on there when my One of my uh Sisters was Aux: Gonna get married 894: Getting married and entertaining her boyfriend over there Interviewer: {NW} 894: #1 Built # Aux: #2 And he # 894: #1 It on # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: But they you they made a bedroom out of it Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: In that place where the where the fireplace was set up they made that the living room Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And there's a range #1 very nice there # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: {NS} That way Interviewer: You you had a fireplace in one of those rooms 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Um {NS} You know on the fireplace the thing that the smoke goes up through You call that the 894: Chimney Aux: Chimney yeah 894: We call it the chimney Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Flue I guess {NS} Aux: Chimney I guess it's Interviewer: What about the open place on the floor In in 894: The hearth Interviewer: Hmm 894: We called it the hearth Interviewer: Mm-hmm {X} {NS} Interviewer: {X} 894: #1 {X} # Aux: #2 {X} # #1 Served in our # {NS}: #2 {NS} # Aux: Ranch house over #1 There # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: And he'll Find something 894: We have it I yeah there's a man in Austin {NS} Named Breeding that uh has Made a uh rundown on Breeding {NS} Interviewer: Hmm Aux: Tree family 894: Family tree and uh he sent me a copy of it And I'm supposed to have one someplace safe to look. And I don't know whether I can find it or not but if I can't Aux: I think it's in that trunk Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh My father he had his uh His family tree too and Aux: He has a cousin who has that Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: It's Misses Ralphs that lives in Encinal They're not in Loredo I mean not in Encinal today Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: They're in they're they went to Loredo I talked to her this morning Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And went to the dentist so Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: She's got a lot of information Just on the breeding site of course Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Was that the Her father was Bob's mother's Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: {NW} Brother {NS} Interviewer: Um You know on the fireplace the thing that you set the wood on Aux: Mm-hmm 894: We had uh Aux: Andirons 894: Andiron #1 Yeah # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Andirons and we uh That's what was Aux: They burned the wood You know 894: #1 We burned # Interviewer: #2 That's that's # What you called them #1 Andirons # 894: #2 Uh-huh # Interviewer: Thank you Um {NS} What about the thing that that you said could set a clock on or #1 something # Aux: #2 On the mantle # 894: Mantle #1 We had the # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: mantle over the fireplace and we had the clock up there #1 on it # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: #1 Then and then a mirror # Interviewer: #2 And uh # Uh-huh Aux: {D: There's a way} Interviewer: I need to get um #1 His # {NS}: #2 {NS} # Interviewer: His word first because Aux: {NW} I'm sorry {NW} I'm bag boy Meyer {NW} Interviewer: Oh that's that's okay but You know sometimes people have different words For things Aux: Oh yeah Interviewer: You know that's a Um Aux: We don't like those {NW} Interviewer: Um What about the taking Uh taking one of the start box what kind of wood would you use for starting it 894: {NW} We used {D: Cantolinian} chips Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh That's about all {D: Catoline} Interviewer: What is Catoline? Is that a 894: {D: Catolinia's} uh you take the uh The uh Lumber old lumber and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Split it up and Interviewer: It's just any old split lumber then 894: That's right Aux: Shavings too Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} 894: And uh {NW} Of course at times why we would use oil If we didn't have any #1 McKinley # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: coal oil we called it Interviewer: Coal oil 894: #1 Coals # Aux: #2 Kerosene # 894: C-O-A-L coal oil what #1 we called it # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: But now and then they call it kerosene Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: mm-hmm Interviewer: What about um taking a big piece of wood and Setting that sort of toward the back of the fireplace in 894: Well I'd put it all back there so #1 it'd burn all night # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Did you ever hear it called a backlog #1 Or back sticks # 894: #2 Yes # Yes Put a back load of them there #1 none and # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # {NS} And the Black stuff that forms in the chimney 894: Oh Some say soot and some say soot Well I don't know Interviewer: Which Which sounds more natural to you 894: Soot #1 We uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: We use soot there mostly which isn't right I know but Uh You take it uh we would Take a Sack Get up on the top with a rope #1 And run it down # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Through the Chimney and uh Knock the Soot out #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That away for next year Interviewer: What about the the stuff that you shovel out of the fireplace 894: Ashes Interviewer: Uh-huh And {NS} How about things that you'd have in a room um The thing that I'm sitting in You'd call a 894: Chair Interviewer: And something that that you have in there Longer for maybe three or four people to sit on 894: Well that's a That's a couch or Davenport or #1 Something like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # What about sof- 894: What Interviewer: Any other name for that Did you ever hear sof- 894: Sofa yeah Interviewer: Uh-huh #1 What's the difference # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: between a Davenport and a couch or sofa 894: I suppose the period of time I imagine would be the main difference but uh Sofa was the older Word and and uh And then the couch Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Maybe it might be I don't know Interviewer: What about Davenport Do people use that now 894: I don't know I don't think so #1 I think it's # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Ancient history Interviewer: {NW} And Just a A general name for Um things that you have in your house Would be called your 894: Furniture Interviewer: Mm-hmm And A piece of furniture that um You can use to keep your In your bedroom to keep your clothes in 894: Well we had the closets Interviewer: Mm-hmm Is that built in or is that 894: We had uh We had ours built in if we had any Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And some of the ones would move Any and we would Hang them behind the doors Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Where we had more than the clothes it would hold Interviewer: What about furniture The with drawers in it for keeping clothes in 894: Well we had uh Keeping clothes in #1 that was just a # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That's a Drawer we it's uh {NS} High boy Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Something like that I don't know it's a #1 Dresser # Interviewer: #2 Did you ever # 894: #1 Dresser # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Dresser drawers and things like that Interviewer: Did you ever see something that um had two doors in it You could open it and it'd have a place for hanging {X} 894: Yeah Interviewer: What was that called 894: We called it a closet Interviewer: Uh-huh Well the piece of furniture though {NS} Did you ever hear of a chiffonier or #1 Chifforobe or a wardrobe # 894: #2 Oh yes yes # Yeah we But uh I don't I always #1 figured # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: That a chiffonier would have been one that was bought and ours was handmade Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Made out of lumber one to twelve Not very wide and you could uh Put stuff in there and have Glasses on the front of it uh mirrors Interviewer: Did it have drawers in it too 894: Had two drawers on the bottom Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And you put your shoes and things like that in it Interviewer: If it was homemade what would you call it A 894: I don't know {C: very quiet} {NS} {X} We called it the closet Interviewer: Uh-huh So to you a closet could be a piece of furniture or it could be a little room 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Built in Um Something on rollers that you could put in window Windows to pull down 894: Window shades Interviewer: Mm-kay {NS} And The Little room off the kitchen where you can store canned goods and Extra dishes and 894: We didn't have that {NW} Interviewer: What would you call it 894: {NW} Uh I guess the thing would be uh It's a pantry I imagine Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 894: #2 A pantry # Interviewer: {NS} What about say if you had a lot of old worthless things Like old broken furniture and everything What would you what would you call things like that that weren't any good 894: Junk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Interviewer: Where would you #1 store things that # 894: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: that you didn't know what to do with 894: We had a We had a barn out in the back of the house and #1 we would take them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: out there and Put them in there Interviewer: Do you ever hear of using just one room for storing odds and ends in 894: That I don't know I Interviewer: #1 What do you call # 894: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: That room 894: {NW} Junk room Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} And {NS} A woman would say if if her house was in a big mess she'd say I have to 894: I'll have to clean it up. #1 or something like that # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # And the thing that you'd sweep with 894: Broom. Interviewer: And Years ago on Monday women would get all the dirty clothes together and they'd go do the 894: Washing Wash day Interviewer: Uh-huh What about on Tuesday After they were washed They do the 894: They'd have to iron then and #1 Course # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: My mother never did do that but I know what you're looking for My mother had these Mexican people do that Interviewer: Uh-huh Did most people around here um Have Mexicans of who {NS} {X} 894: Not all of them #1 Not all of them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: Those who could afford them Interviewer: It was it was pretty common 894: Pretty, very common Interviewer: Uh-huh What You know that big back thing they can have out in the yard 894: Oh that old boiling pot that #1 moist pot # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Wash pot and then you come down to kill hogs, would use it to render the whole {X} Interviewer: {NW} 894: {NW} Interviewer: Um And Something you can have On to heat of water to make hot tea in Something with a spout to it would be it 894: That'd be a tea kettle Interviewer: Uh-huh Do you ever hear um is wash pot called a kettle 894: Yes Mm-hmm Either one of them #1 Could be those # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # It's the same thing 894: Yep Interviewer: Um The covering on the house Is called a 894: Roof Interviewer: And something along the edge of the roof to carry the water off 894: Gutters Interviewer: Alright how are they Uh attached are they built in or do they hang there 894: They are They were hung there They were nailed up there and uh Had uh Some kind of a tin #1 aura and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Wire Specially made for that to keep them up there Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 894: #2 I don't # We had gutters on our house and we had the uh We had the {NS} Cistern Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: With the water And we used the cistern for drinking because when We were here in Encinal we Interviewer: {NW} 894: We used to buy our water by the barrel ten cents a barrel And they had a man with a donkey #1 And a cart # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And he'd bring the water over And he would unload it in our barrel and #1 He'd go back and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Buy the water from the railroad the railroad at the well and Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: There weren't there many {NS} Uh wells around here then? 894: No No I guess that was the Well they had other wells but they wasn't suitable for drinking they had uh Shallow wells that for horses and then is salt You take it our horses and the cattle #1 Why we'd water # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That amount of these every well {NW} We used to I used to have to take my horses down to About three or four blocks and lead them down there and water them and then bring them back home #1 And put them up # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Mm-hmm Hmm {NS} Interviewer: Um 894: {NW} Was just two wells uh three Three wells I guess in Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} You know If you have a house and an L There's a low place where the roofs join Do you know what that low place is called #1 Did you ever see # 894: #2 No I # Interviewer: #1 A house built like that # 894: #2 Oh # Yes I've seen a lot of them but I don't know what to call it is they u- they used to grow them together #1 Down there but I # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: don't know Interviewer: Do you ever hear valley or alley 894: Oh yes valley #1 You have with the valley tens and the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: corners where your two rooms come together and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Comes on down water Down that valley Interviewer: What about the little room At the top of the house just under the roof {NS} 894: That uh {NS} The little room that's top of our house was just a uh Well we didn't have anything in it anything it's just More or less a Dead space up Interviewer: Mm-hmm Wha- wha- wha- what would you call it Are you saying going up to the 894: Attic would that Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} And To get from the First floor to the second floor In this two-story house You have 894: The stairway Interviewer: Uh-huh What about to get from the porch to the ground 894: Have the steps Interviewer: #1 Step # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Down Interviewer: Do you remember um Having seen Different kinds of porches built or have different names for Different types of porches Like a porch off the second floor Or a big porch or something like that 894: {NW} I don't suppose anybody in Encinal had one of those when I was growing up Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} But uh Right now I I don't know what they're called Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you ever hear a porch called a gallery 894: Oh yes We called ours a gallery out there Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Front of our house because it {NW} {X} {NS} Just out there that's all and uh Interviewer: No no roof to it no 894: It had a roof on it #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Come now and we had the posts and And uh {NS} Lumber Floor Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: You had the The po- 894: Yeah that post to hold the roof up #1 You see # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh Interviewer: What how's a gallery different from just a porch Or is it 894: {NW} I don't know but I would think maybe a porch might be more like this or something like that but #1 I don't # Interviewer: #2 Screened in or # 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} And {NS} You know some houses have {NS} Have boars on the outside that sort of lap over each other #1 Like this # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: You call those 894: I call them uh s-sidings Interviewer: Uh-huh Do you ever hear of weather boarding Or Flat board {NS} 894: Yes I've heard of it Weatherboarding and Interviewer: Uh-huh But it's not a term you would use {NS} 894: {NW} Well I wouldn't know what it was #1 if I use it # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: because {NS} I think I think Weatherboard though is just any old board hanging outside wouldn't Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} {NS} Um 894: The other is overlaps Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 894: #2 Shiplap # Interviewer: {NS} The the siding is is shiplap {X} {NS} 894: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Say if you wanted to hang up a picture you'd say {NS} You'd you'd take a nail and uh {NS} 894: Hammer it into the Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Hammer it into the wall Interviewer: With a You'd you'd use a 894: Use a nail Interviewer: And a 894: Hammer Interviewer: Uh-huh {NW} And you'd say I took the hammer and I What the nail end 894: I'd take the hammer and I'd hit the nail #1 And drive it # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: into the wall Interviewer: Mm-kay #1 So you'd say # 894: #2 And ham- # Interviewer: I took the hammer and I What the nail all the way in I 894: I go it all the way in #1 I # Interviewer: #2 Mm-kay # {NW} {NW} And if it didn't get in far enough you'd say it's got to be What in further 894: Has to be driven A little farther Interviewer: Mm-kay And If the door was open and you didn't want it to be You'd ask somebody to 894: Close the door Interviewer: Or in other words you could use {NW} {NW} 894: Shut the door Interviewer: Uh-huh How does that sound to you Does that that sound like 894: Well it's uh It's uh {NS} Not the proper word to use I know of that Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Shut the door Close the door I don't know Interviewer: Not much different 894: Not much different Interviewer: Um {NS} Before they had Bathrooms inside What did they Call the toilets they had outside 894: They called them privies in the old days Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh {NW} And after we grew up {D: and red chick sailed why you know uh} Uh Privy and a little backhouse Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Heard some of them call it chicken coop Interviewer: Chicken coop 894: Yeah That that Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: That wasn't Aux: It was kids that didn't 894: kids Aux: Didn't know they were ever here Interviewer: Uh-huh Any um Joking names or sort of vulgar names people used to use 894: Yeah Take it S-H-I house or something like that Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 894: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: That was that was kind of vulgar 894: Uh-huh Interviewer: Um And Little building you could have for storing wood {NS} 894: Call it the woodshed Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about tools where would they be kept 894: The tools should be in the tool house but of course we never had a tool house. And we kept them around in the barn. Interviewer: Mm-hmm What what different buildings did you have You you had the barn now {NW} What else 894: We had a barn and we had a shed we would take the cow under when it'd rain and a milker or some- #1 thing like that # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: #1 It'd just uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Do you separate from the barn 894: Separate from the barn that is uh We call the barn the closed in part and this other Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: The other you see a shed or Interviewer: The shed was was attached to the barn 894: Yes mm-hmm Interviewer: What did you keep in the barn 894: {NW} We kept our Saddles and our Harness for the horses and we kept the feed {NW} #1 We had a # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Box in there we'd have brand stuff for the cow to eat and Oats for the horses and mules Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And hay whenever We had that and we had another barn we put hay in And later on that'd become the model T shed #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Um The upper part of the barn where you can keep hay You call that the 894: Loft Interviewer: Uh-huh Say um A long time ago b- Well nowadays of course they bale hay But a long time ago {NW} It they'd cut the hay and they'd let it dry Then they'd break it into little piles and maybe take a pitchfork and Load the hay on a wagon What would they call those little piles that they'd have raked up Was there a special name for them {NS} 894: I suppose they'd call them ricks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Ricks of hay Interviewer: How what what does a rick look like Any special #1 Size # 894: #2 A rick # Well uh of course with us it would #1 be larger # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 # Aux: #2 # 894: #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: it uh we uh take our hay and that loose hay and Stack it in ricks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Leave it for winter use or something like that {NS} Interviewer: How did you stack it 894: We would take pitchforks and men #1 And throw it # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # On there loose and have a man on top of it to Tramp it down and {NW} {NW} and place it in place to where 894: #1 it wouldn't # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: get wet when it rained Interviewer: Was did you have a pole in the center 894: Sometimes Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Not all the time Interviewer: This um What's the difference between a A rick and a haystack Or is there any difference 894: Well a rick is uh we what I always thought of a rack as being loose hay and stack well we stacked our Our uh bundled hay we'd take it we'd take a corn binder And it tie this hay this hay and little bundles Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And we would go out and in the field and s- stand them on the ends. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: With a seat up and let them dry. And when it became dry enough we'd haul it into the Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: To the stack Haystack. Interviewer: So the bundles Would Would make up a stack then That's what I wou- I 894: #1 Always # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Classified it Interviewer: Any other way of keeping hay outside Well we never used any other way in fact division says we never had too much hay {NW} 894: And uh We use a A s- Mexican alfalfa we call it this prickly pear that's our hay now Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: But uh I know that uh Baled hay and things you Why we uh Stacked that outside but #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Stacks too Interviewer: When did people start using this prickly pear Did they Have to been used all your life or 894: Yes when I was a boy The old milk cow we used to go out Set uh Build a little fire And uh take this prickly pear and burn the stickers off #1 Take a wheelbarrow # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: Roll it into town And uh Feed it to our milk cow Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Prickly pear has lots of water And of course water makes milk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh so it was Very good and we would Supplement our cow with Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Prickly pear Interviewer: #1 You'd you'd # 894: #2 And # Interviewer: Roll it into town you said 894: O- on a wheelbarrow Interviewer: Uh-huh How far How far away is 894: Well maybe from uh Maybe about a thousand feet. Interviewer: Oh so you'd you just go out into the field and then 894: Out in the Pasture we'd call it #1 The pasture we # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: No fields {NS} Interviewer: A field is where you you Plant things or 894: Yes mm-hmm Interviewer: Uh-huh Um What about something smaller than a field that Maybe you'd plant just a little bit of sweet potatoes or Little bit of 894: Gard- A garden Interviewer: Uh-huh What about a patch 894: Patch Well that's what we've got here Interviewer: What what's a patch 894: Patch is a very small garden I guess like #1 That out there # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Just is a very small little patch Interviewer: What have you got planted out there 894: We have beets. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh I don't know what you'd call those Italian squash. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NW} Okra and carrots Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And Have some uh dill planted I don't know what that's for There's our patch of uh of uh asparagus Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Interviewer: Hmm {NS} Um Now when you ha- cut the hay off A piece of land Um And enough grows back the same year so you can cut it again what would you call that 894: Second crop's what we always called it second crop of hay Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about the um Grass that's left lying over in the field after you Do that The the dry dead grass Did you ever hear of Rowing or aftermath 894: Rowing we uh We called rowing Feed you know when you have a pick up bale or something we put in rows Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Pick it up and then go back with an automatic baler and pick it up {NW} But uh we never had that here in Encinal #1 Up till now # Interviewer: #2 # 894: Lately Mm-hmm Interviewer: What about um The A building that's used for storing grain What would that be 894: That would be a grainery Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: In my mind Interviewer: Do what does the grainery look like? 894: {NW} A grainery uh We have none in this country that nobody has any grain. If they do they Sell it {NW} Now Grainery would be just a building that was Reinforced inside to where it would hold the grain and and have a top on it where it wouldn't get wet Interviewer: What Um What areas of the country do they use graineries in 894: Well we had them in Oklahoma when I was up there Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh In Panhandle when we were there in Amarillo they had some real Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Grain where you see those big uh Thousands of bushels you know wheat Interviewer: That they used for the um feed lots or 894: Well that isn't uh That is used for flour the #1 Wheat # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: But of course now then they have those same things they use them in feed lots Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh They have it to where they can On a scale why they can pull out whatever they want to make some feeds and things like that Interviewer: These lots must be Pretty large 894: This man that owns the {NW} {D: Callehand} ranch he owns a feed lot from California Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And {D: Hugh} has about fifteen thousand head Steers on feed and steers and #1 heifers are these # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: animals {NW} And uh He has a lot of his cattle uh Also he has little feed lots around here that he #1 feeds them on # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Interviewer: How how big a feed lot do you need for fifteen thousand Head of steers 894: I don't know why I don't know Has to be pretty big though pretty large #1 because # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: {NW} you take it uh You take it You You've got to give them plenty of room if you you know Where it's summertime it's very hot #1 {D: blind} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: They have to have air and they have shades I don't know how much it'd be Interviewer: I'm picturing this as sort of a cramped temporary place but I guess they they #1 stay there for several months # 894: #2 No no # Yes they have to feed them uh They have to feed them for uh Usually a hundred and twenty days Interviewer: {NW} That's a long time 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Um where would you keep corn 894: Corn would be {NS} What little we had we'd put it in the barn Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: Any special name for the Place the corn barn or crib or corn house 894: Well not not in this country there's no corn raised so Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: It uh I know crib is the word Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: To be used but it uh {NS} We have {NS} You know Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: We had some we raised we have I have raised Corn I did I put it in the barn Took it out right through a hammer mill and ground it up Load it back in the barn #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Interviewer: You'd Usually keep it up in the Wh- where in the barn would it go 894: On the ground before #1 We had no # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: We had no Double deck barns and #1 anything like that # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # What do the double deck barns now what What do they look like 894: I don't know unless it'd be like one of those like your picture in all these pictures is where they have the upper upper floor for hay and stuff #1 like that # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: goes up there On the sides the Beef or the #1 Cattle # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: or feed in the colder countries we don't #1 have in this country # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # What do they call the the upper part The 894: Loft Interviewer: Uh-huh Um {NS} Where would horses be kept 894: Our horses were always kept out on the open range Interviewer: Mm-hmm No shelter for them or 894: No shelter for them we're in a Warm country down {D: here} Interviewer: Yeah {NW} 894: And uh {NW} You take it the whole why people that have these fine race horses and things they had barns at one time Mister Coleman had a {NW} barn here and #1 he kept his uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Thoroughbred horses he'd put them on the track #1 and run them and things # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: like that Interviewer: They don't have horse racing in #1 In Texas # 894: #2 Texas no # No {NW} No horse racing it was voted down the other day {NW} Interviewer: What do you think of that you think they should or 894: I think that uh We need horse racing Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: From a financial standpoint we don't need it from a I guess from a moral standpoint {NW} I don't know That's a big question Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um 894: I voted for it, I'll say that Interviewer: It it was defeated pretty soundly wasn't it 894: What? Interviewer: It was defeated pretty soundly wasn't it 894: No not too bad not too bad It was defeated but uh Not like it hadn't been here before so like they made a #1 {D: Better antidote} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: on it this time Interviewer: Hmm Um Where would you keep hogs 894: Hogs they keep them in the pens Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Hog pens And uh You take it I worked on a ranch here that had hogs And they built special pens for their hogs And uh They Built Concrete Baths for them where they could go in there and keep cool for the summer And of course they age And they would take these Pigs young pigs when they were born #1 and take them out and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Take them to the pastures Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And let them Stay over there until they got older and then try to get them Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Catch them And uh lots of times they didn't get them but uh the #1 hogs # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: would feed on the pear apples we called them tunas that's the Spanish name for them Interviewer: Wha- what The pear apples 894: Pear apples yes Interviewer: From that prickly 894: Yeah #1 Prickly pear # Interviewer: #2 Pear # 894: They Nearly an- Nearly any animal will eat that #1 Eat the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Mexican {D: wets} That come over from Mexico #1 Yeah they eat the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Tunas and {NW} They eat the mesquite beans Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Whenever they have nothing else in some times Interviewer: There are no Um Thorns in the pear apple 894: Oh yes Yeah it has thorns but they can take a little piece of grass or something and {NW} Brush them off they're s- Easier to get rid of they're small very small Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um Mentioned the pigs when When they were about half grown You you don't call them pigs you call them 894: Shoats is that Interviewer: Uh-huh Then If they're Um Male you call them 894: Boar Interviewer: Uh-huh What about females 894: Females is sow Interviewer: Mm-hmm What if she's never had pigs {NW} 894: I don't really know I I Still a sow I #1 guess uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # {NW} Do you ever The word boar did When you were growing up did it sound sort of bad to To say the word boar #1 Or did # 894: #2 No no # Interviewer: It sounded okay 894: {NW} Interviewer: Um And the stiff hairs that a hog has on its back 894: A bristle Interviewer: Uh-huh What about the big teeth that they have 894: Tushes Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Javelins {C: Spanish pronunciation} We got the javelins {C: Spanish pronunciation} out here the wild hogs Interviewer: You call those jav- 894: Javelins {C: Spanish pronunciation} Interviewer: Uh-huh That's a 894: They call them peccary here {NS} J-A-V-E-L-I-N Interviewer: What's that? 894: J-A-V-E-L-I-N A javelina {C: Spanish pronunciation} that'd be that'd be feminine Interviewer: Uh-huh That's a wild hog 894: That's a wild hog that's They're called uh They're called uh {NW} Peccary English P-E-C-C-A-R-I peccary See them in the Interviewer: That's just a that's another name for wild hog 894: That is they claim that they're not a species as a whole #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: But I don't know Interviewer: Did you ever hear of one called Piney Woods rooter 894: Oh we have those Arkansas razorbacks Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: But they are {NW} {NS} But we don't have {X} in this country Wouldn't amount to anything whenever he gets to be real poor and everything he isn't working so reasonably Interviewer: {NW} #1 {NW} # 894: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: Um The things you put the food in for the hogs Those are called the 894: We call them the troughs {X} Slop troughs and it used to be #1 Where we'd put in this # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: slop from the from the house Interviewer: What would you carry it out in 894: We carried it out in a bucket a five gallon bucket or something like that Interviewer: You call that the {NS} The slop 894: Slop bucket yes Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} Um {NS} Say if you Um If you had chickens Where would you keep them 894: Keep them in the chicken house Interviewer: Mm-hmm Any other {NS} Special place for #1 the # 894: #2 Oh oh the # Interviewer: mother hen and the 894: No Course not on the ranch but uh they have those here I don't know what they call them in these #1 Nursery things # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: But Far as I'm concerned the uh chickens are just in the chicken house #1 Course they had the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Brooder house and all #1 Of that stuff that's # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: What you maybe are looking for Interviewer: What about the Coop That you mentioned 894: Oh a chicken coop that's when the baby chickens yeah Interviewer: Mm-hmm Had the baby Chickens and they uh Set the old mother Hen in there with the baby Mm-hmm 894: Keep her the chickens got a little larger Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Say if you wanted to make a hen start laying what could you put in her nest to fool her 894: {NW} What we always use is maybe a One of these glass eggs Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Or chalk eggs mostly glass we'd Put a glass egg in there and the old snake would get the glass egg and kill him he couldn't #1 Digest it # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # {NW} Say you had a good set of dishes That would be made out of 894: China Interviewer: Uh-huh What about an egg made out of that 894: Well that's the same thing Interviewer: The glass egg #1 Or a # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Glass egg or china you can pick one Interviewer: Uh-huh Um A hen on a nest of eggs You'd call her a 894: S- a setting hen Interviewer: Uh-huh Do you ever hear her called anything else 894: A sitting hen or Interviewer: What about brood Brooding hen Did you ever hear that 894: {NW} {NS} Interviewer: Um Now {NS} When you're Eating chicken there's a bone that goes like this 894: {D: Fillet} bone that's my wife's piece Interviewer: Uh-huh Any Stories about that about Taking it and 894: Oh yes it has a superstition you take it and you uh {NW} You Like you a young lady why you would separate take it With another girl and pull it and the one who got the short one why she was gonna get her man first or something like that Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {X} Interviewer: Boys would do that Looking to see who would get the 894: Yeah Interviewer: Get married first Um {NS} Did you have a A large barn and Um had a lot of milk cows and you Sold the milk and So what do you call that place a 894: {NW} Dairy Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NW} Did you ever hear the word dairy used to mean anything else besides a commercial farm like that 894: Only this here ice cream I'd bet {NW} Dairy made #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: {NW} Interviewer: Where do you think we used to keep milk and butter before they had refrigerators 894: When the There used to be a Lady there in Encinal had a {NW} Had a little Triple tray made out of uh Tents #1 On the top # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: of it's a little bit deeper than the others And she would put her milk in there and on the top she had Water Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And then On the sides going down she had cloth #1 And that water # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Would keep this cloth Cool and that would keep your milk cool Interviewer: Hmm what'd she call that 894: Milk cooler I suppose Interviewer: Uh-huh Did you ever um See people Store potatoes or turnips down in the winter 894: Only in Idaho {NW} Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {NW} No {NW} They don't ever have anything like that In Oklahoma they had them down in those cellars you know Keep them down there Interviewer: Uh-huh Um A fixed in place around the barn where the animals can walk around You call that the 894: We always called it the lot Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about having a fenced in place out in the pasture Where you could leave the cow overnight milking 894: I don't know just Trap or Interviewer: Mm-hmm What is a trap now how how is that built 894: {NW} Trap that's a small Small uh A small pasture you might say Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: You e- could take this yard here and call it a trap if you wanted to if it had grass in it #1 things like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Interviewer: When do you #1 u- # 894: #2 A trap # is is something to uh Put your Put your animals in that you don't want to get away from you and hold them For just A limited time Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Turn them out Interviewer: Say if you're gonna ship them or something 894: Hmm yeah #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # What about corral 894: Corral that's a Corral is what we use for working our cattle in We uh Take them in there and uh {NW} And We Castrate them and we Interviewer: #1 Earmark # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: them and vaccinate them Maybe bathe them I mean uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: It's a what do you call it a {NS} We have uh we have these uh Dipping baths #1 too # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # For ticks 894: For ticks and for lice and things #1 Like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} And we uh Run the cattle through and they have to swim a little ways Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 894: #2 To go # Through That's about gone too they use a mechanical one now mostly Engine Engine pumps and things Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Wet them down Interviewer: Mm-hmm You used the term castrate any old fashioned or more common term people use To mean castrate 894: Well we used to say cut #1 Cutting them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: We cut them Cut the calves or we Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Castrate them of course Interviewer: What would you call a pig once it's been cut 894: Uh {X} I I don't know right now I can't remember I #1 can't # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Uh Interviewer: Did you ever hear it called a bar or a barrow 894: Barrow yeah {NW} Barrow Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Barrow B-A-R-R-O-W barrow Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Barrow and a gilt That's the I guess that was the hog you were looking for isn't it Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: It ha- didn't have Pigs Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Mm-hmm {NS} Interviewer: Um Did you ever hear of a Uh Milk gap or cow pen 894: Ever hear of a what? Interviewer: Milk gap or a cow pen 894: I've heard lots of cow pens but uh Interviewer: But what is a cow pen 894: A cow pen uh First place is if we had a milk cow we'd milk her in the cow pen Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh That was uh Might say where We did the milking and things like that Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: The cow pen Interviewer: And Say if you wanted to to get some land Ready for planting First of all you'd have to break the ground up And you'd use a 894: We'd use a Turning plow #1 More than likely # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: A turning plow or a disc plow Disc {NW} And then uh After that we would uh Go back and uh Harrow it down Level it off and Interviewer: Using a 894: Using a Peg-tooth harrow Interviewer: Hmm a 894: Peg-tooth harrow Interviewer: What does that look like 894: Peg-tooth harrow is a a lot of bars and got a lot of pegs on it #1 and this goes along # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: and it breaks the clods and things Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NS} Then we would {NS} Go back and Use a middle buster and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Lay the land {NW} That is middle bust that part the land and plant on top of this here that away the water would soak into these #1 those hills # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: and we'd go back and plant it why And those ridges and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Add more moisture Interviewer: If you get rid of all the brush and trees on your land Before you you can get it ready to plant Um what do you say you're doing 894: Well we always said grub it you grub your land Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh That is you get rid of it and now then why it's gotten to where they you know Root pot and all that #1 stuff # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: You know Interviewer: What about cleaning the land or clearing the land out 894: Clearing Uh-huh Clearing your land Interviewer: Is that the same as grubbing it 894: Yes uh-huh Interviewer: How do you What equipment do you use for that 894: Use a grubbing hoe they call it We called it a grubbing hoe people now I think call it ad Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Take those and a man would go there and he'd dig a hole around his tree and go down and get the tap root down where it's deep enough where it wouldn't bother the plow Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And Then we would take it and use the wood if there's any on there and uh Interviewer: If there's any wood on the 894: On this tree #1 That he had # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Grubbed out like this mesquite {NW} Why We would c- Cut it #1 And put it in the corn wood # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Hmm 894: And maybe sell the corn wood or something like that Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um When you're plowing the the trench Sort of that's cut by the plow you call that the 894: Furrow Interviewer: Mm-hmm If you plow it with two horses what would you call the horse that walks in the furrow 894: {X} I don't know must be the furrow horse I don't know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: I don't know exactly the name Never did do much farming Interviewer: {NW} What about what you guide the h- horse with 894: The lines Interviewer: Uh-huh And if you're riding on him you got him with a 894: Lines too really Interviewer: Uh-huh And your feet 894: Reigns #1 Reigns you usually # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Bridle reigns Interviewer: What are your feet in 894: Feed the horse Interviewer: Your your feet When you're riding on him 894: On the stirrups Interviewer: Uh-huh And You say before you can hitch a horse to a buggy or wagon What do you say you have to do to him 894: Have to harness him #1 Is that what you want # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: And What kind of animal um {X} Looks sort of like a horse that that you can plow with 894: Mule Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {NS} Interviewer: What would you call two of those hitched together 894: A team of mules Interviewer: Uh-huh And {NS} What different kinds of fences do people used to have 894: Well of course uh The outside fences in this country have always been barbed wire Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And when you go to the uh Corrals and places like that why I've got an old wooden corral over here that's made out of wood Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: It's uh Two Two uh possibly you know what they are they're two Two posts put in the ground And at a certain distance Two more and then the stack that wood in and fill it up The height #1 of the uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: You want your pen and That away you go around Interviewer: Mm-hmm Did you ever see a Wooden fence that Goes like in and out 894: Uh Rail fence I haven't seen one but I we never they never had them in this country #1 we never had # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: enough tim- we didn't have all the timber for that kind of Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Thing Interviewer: To set up a A barbed wire fence you First of all you dig a hole and Stick a 894: First thing you do is you're gonna Set up a Barbed wire fence You've Usually have to cut out the fence line #1 Cut out the- your # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: line that you're going to going to let Place your fence on And then go back and uh Set your Set your stakes up #1 To where you get them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: In line and then go back and Start to dig in your holes And you have a man lining these holes up as you #1 Go on till you # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: don't why you can get twelve Interviewer: And take take the wire and nail it to a 894: Post Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And with with a steeple ham- hammer #1 And steeple # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And you steeple it onto the post Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about a A wooden fence that you might have around your yard or garden Maybe that's Pointed up at the top Did you ever see one of those 894: No Interviewer: Piece a Little Take pieces of wood then you #1 This one # 894: #2 Oh picket # Fence Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Is that what you Interviewer: How would you You'd Set up one of those 894: Well it uh Ordinarily a picket fence would be uh A picket fence would be maybe around your yard Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And you would go in and set your post and then Put your lumber On the outside of these posts and then {NW} And then put your pickets onto the Interviewer: Mm-hmm It's nailed together 894: Nail nailed to it To this lumber that you have on your post you #1 You nail your # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Pickets to that Unless it's some of this here that's already Well but it still has to be nailed Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um there's some of it that's woven or something or 894: Yes has uh Some of it has uh Wires in there #1 There's oh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: wires and it holds those pickets together and you can put them all up some of them individually Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you ever see a fence or wall made out of loose stone or rock that 894: Oh yeah That's a that's a job Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: that I don't want but thank goodness we haven't got that kind of a land here #1 we don't have uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: rocks for it Interviewer: Hmm do you not have the rocks for the 894: No Or to make a Fence out of it we don't have rocks enough to Or anything #1 You might say # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Here Interviewer: Where where do- in the country do they have 894: #1 Rocks # Interviewer: #2 These # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # Uh-huh 894: Well you have to go through a hilly country I guess where they uh {NS}: {NS} 894: I I would think around uh Well we had a lot of them in Oklahoma #1 When I was up # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: There Interviewer: How long were you up there 894: I was up there about Two years Interviewer: When when were you 894: And uh About nineteen fifty-two fifty-one or fifty-two {NS} #1 And we we # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Came back and uh Interviewer: You were from In Oklahoma from about nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty two 894: mm-hmm Interviewer: What were you doing up there 894: Ranching Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Ranching and farming I had {D: farmer, worked for me} Interviewer: Hmm And up there they have the Those fences with walls that 894: They had s- they had quite a bit of rock But there's a lot of rock too whenever you get out in that {NW} #1 Big Ben district # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Out in there I Imagine why Put heels through the rocky mountains Interviewer: Uh-huh What do they call those Fences or Walls those Made out of rock or stone 894: I always thought they just uh Know a rock fence #1 That's what I always # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Called it Interviewer: Um What would people use to carry water in 894: Bucket Interviewer: Mm-hmm What's that made out of 894: Made out of tin in this country Corrugated iron but we call it tin Interviewer: Uh-huh Do you ever see one made out of wood 894: Oh yes I've seen them but Interviewer: Wha- what are they called 894: I don't what they called them A wooden bucket I guess Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NW} What about a pail What's the difference between a bucket and a pail 894: I don't know I don't Know I would think that a A pail might be for the tin #1 And the uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Bucket would be for the wood Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: That might be the difference I Interviewer: But you usually just call it bucket huh 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Um Something you can use for frying eggs in That would be a 894: Skillet Interviewer: Uh-huh Any other name for that 894: Frying pan Interviewer: Is that the same thing 894: Well a a frying pan is supposed to be made out of lighter material #1 and a skillet # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: is heavier Interviewer: Do you ever see one with little legs on it you could use in a fireplace 894: Oh yes Interviewer: Wha- 894: #1 Cooked them many a # Interviewer: #2 What were they # 894: Time that's one of them in the camp {NS} Interviewer: Uh-huh What were they called 894: I don't know they we called them We called them haceros {C: Spanish pronunciation} {NW} Interviewer: You called them what 894: Hacero {C: Spanish pronunciation} that there is Spanish for Skillet Interviewer: #1 How do you spell that # 894: #2 I guess # Interviewer: I 894: H-A-C-E-R-O-S Had a top on it you'd cook your bread you put uh coals on the top And coals on the bottom and Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh Get your pan pan {C: Spanish pronunciation} out of there Bread Spanish for bread pan {C: Spanish pronunciation} Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {NW} {NS} Interviewer: You use it in the camps You'd say 894: Yes in the camp Interviewer: But they left a they had on television you know the #1 The wagon # 894: #2 Yes # Interviewer: #1 And # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Yes And uh Had the old coffee pot {X} And Nailed onto a Board and the board tied to the wagon wheel of the camp Interviewer: {NW} 894: Camp and that's where you ground your coffee Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Buy green coffee and roast it in one of those skillets Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh Whenever it got done why then we would uh Grind it as we needed it and have #1 Fresh coffee # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # How long would you be out um In a Why why would you be out in a camp And for for roundup or 894: Well uh in our case it was building those tanks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Course they use they do that in these roundups Aux: #1 Too # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: But uh We'd go to a location where they're gonna {NW} Make a tank for #1 Water # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: For livestock And uh they didn't take thirty days #1 To make one of them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: With these mules maybe My father he always used six teams of mules and #1 He had six # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Men to drive them And uh We had a man fill the scraper we called them scrapers those drag scrapers Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And he had a man to empty them And this other man he'd six of them would go around and two is eight {NW} Mm-hmm {NW} And uh Either way why they would Interviewer: So you'd just be miles from Everybody then #1 Just out # 894: #2 Well # mm mm-hmm Interviewer: How would you you get water for yourself 894: Haul them in barrels Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Take a Wagon and Put three or four These old large barrels in them take the old lard Barrels in the old days and Wooden barrels and uh {NW} Burn them Inside and get the lard out and then we'd haul water in them Interviewer: Hmm 894: And Sometimes we would uh Maybe Have to use it for For an animal but very seldom Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We'd always drive our Animals to water Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We had the old bell mare And she would {NW} Take the mules and lead the mules and mules would follow her and stay with her Interviewer: You'd have the old what mare 894: Bell B-E double L Interviewer: What do you mean Bell 894: Put a Put a bell on her Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And the mules would stay with her she was the one Nights we would get up and we would hobble hobble her put hobbles on her Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh Turn her out And uh she would stay around in the morning when we got her up we always fed her So she was anxious So she would come to #1 Camp # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Whenever we started her in That a way why we {NS} Interviewer: It'd just be about eight people though just Spending a month or so just out 894: They yeah it And paid them fifty cents a day In the old days Fifty cents a day yeah and they would work {NW} Ten to twelve hours a day Interviewer: Gosh 894: {NW} Interviewer: Couldn't get that now 894: And uh They take it they'd stay out thirty days and come in town and Buy four or five dollars worth of groceries and the rest of it they'd take it for beer Interviewer: {NW} 894: Entertainment Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Um They'd go Encinal would be the town that people would go in 894: Yes Interviewer: Um Say if you cut some flowers and wanted to keep them in the house you'd put them in a 894: mm Flower jar or uh Interviewer: Or a special Thing just 894: Oh those urns and vases #1 And things like # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That {NS} Interviewer: And Say if you were setting the table um next to each plate for people to eat with you'd give everybody a 894: A knife and fork Interviewer: And 894: Spoons and Interviewer: And say if you serve steak nowadays and it wasn't very tender you'd have to put out steak 894: Knives Interviewer: And if the dishes were dirty you'd say I have to 894: Wash the dishes Interviewer: And After she washes the dishes then she What them in clear water she 894: She uh Scalds them in clear water and then Interviewer: Well #1 To get # 894: #2 Dries them # Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 894: #2 And # Interviewer: Or to get the suds off she 894: She {NW} Well we'd run hot water over them Interviewer: Uh-huh You'd say she ri- 894: Rinses them yeah Interviewer: Uh-huh And the cloth or rag you use when washing dishes 894: It's a dish towel Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Cup towel Interviewer: Is that when you're washing them or drying 894: Drying Interviewer: What about when you're washing them 894: Oh we have wash Dish cloth Interviewer: Huh 894: Dish cloth Interviewer: Uh-huh What about to bathe your face with You have a 894: A wash rag Interviewer: Uh-huh And to dry yourself with 894: A towel Interviewer: And 894: Bath towel Interviewer: Say if you wanted to pour something from a big container into something with a narrow mouth You'd pour it through a 894: Funnel is that Interviewer: Uh-huh And if you were riding horses and wanted them to go faster you'd hit them with a 894: Whip Interviewer: And Nowadays if if your lamp wasn't burning you'd have to screw in a new 894: New fuse I mean a new light bulb Interviewer: Uh-huh And to carry your clothes out to hang them on the line you'd carry them out in a clothes 894: Basket {NW} Interviewer: And This is a a musical instrument that people would blow on like this 894: Oh yeah We used to call it Jew's harp but they #1 Harmonica # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Is the Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 894: #2 Harmonica # Interviewer: That's the one that you blow like this What about the one like this 894: That's a Jew's harp Interviewer: Uh-huh There's Is that the that's two different things isn't it #1 The # 894: #2 Yes # Interviewer: You used to call both of them the Jew's harp 894: I don't think so Interviewer: This this one that you claim was the 894: #1 That's a Jew's harp # Interviewer: #2 Jew's harp # 894: And the other one is the Is the uh Interviewer: Did you ever hear of French harp or 894: #1 French harp yeah that's what # Interviewer: #2 That # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # That's what it was 894: That's what it was yes The one you blow on Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Harmonica French harp Interviewer: Mm-hmm Say um If If you um Wanted to carry some corn to the mill to be ground What would you call the amount of corn that you take at one time 894: {NW} Maybe a bushel I imagine what you're looking for is Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Or a Load of corn Interviewer: Uh-huh Did you ever hear the expression a turn of corn 894: A what? Interviewer: A turn of corn 894: No Interviewer: And something that people put in pistols they call that a 894: Cartridge Interviewer: Mm-hmm And Say if you wanted to To chop a log you could make it egg-shaped frame To set the log in 894: Oh yes but We never did that Interviewer: What would 894: If you had a saw you would #1 Build it you'd # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Have to do that but we do use an ax here Interviewer: What would you know what you'd call that kind of frame #1 You'd # 894: #2 No mm-mm # Interviewer: What about the thing that carpenters use that 894: #1 They call them a # Interviewer: #2 Help them # 894: Sawhorse Interviewer: Uh-huh What are they called down here 894: Sawhorse Interviewer: Uh-huh Do you remember the Spanish name for sawhorse 894: {X} Interviewer: Did you ever heard them #1 Call # 894: #2 They # Burros Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Burros you know what burro is don't you Interviewer: #1 That's a # 894: #2 Donkey # Interviewer: #1 Donkey huh # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Mm-hmm {NS} Interviewer: Um {NS} Something else smaller than a A barrel That nails used to come in {NS} 894: Keg Interviewer: Uh-huh And the thing that runs around the barrel to hold the wood in place 894: Hoops Interviewer: And Something on On a a beer keg or a water barrel or something the thing that you turn to get the water out 894: Spicket Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about out of your yard the thing you can turn to get water 894: We call it water faucet Interviewer: And at the sink 894: Sink it's a faucet #1 Too # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Something that uh people make with sugar cane 894: Is it uh are you looking for whiskey or something like #1 That or # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: Is it uh course they make sugar out of sugar cane and then they make uh Guess they call that Liquor that they make out of it you know Rye r- rum Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Rum Interviewer: What about something that Um Makes it sticky Then 894: Oh by boiling it and Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Bringing it uh I don't know evaporation I guess and uh Interviewer: Well What would you have uh to eat with pancakes 894: Oh syrup Interviewer: Uh-huh What else besides syrup what's similar 894: Well we have molasses Interviewer: What's the difference 894: Well uh You take it uh molasses is Usually referred to as a heavier species Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Syrup and the other And {X} You know and #1 Molasses # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Things like that Interviewer: You ever hear of molasses and syrup called long-sweetening and short-sweetening 894: No Interviewer: What about if you were gonna buy some molasses What would it come in 894: Come in a glass right now Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: You used to buy it in Half a gallon and ten gallon Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Can Buckets ten {NS} Interviewer: Did you ever hear it called a stand of molasses 894: No Interviewer: And What about a stand of lard did you ever hear that 894: No I bought a hundred and ten pounds of lard in pails and used to have a little grocery store in there Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: But I never heard of a stand of lard Interviewer: A hundred and ten pounds 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: That gets pretty big 894: Yes it is and uh Wasn't big for us {D: at least} Spanish people use lots of lard Interviewer: Uh-huh Um I don't guess they ever raise much cotton in this area 894: Used to you raise quite a bit of cotton here Interviewer: What's Um Well you have to go out with a hoe and sort of bend the cotton out what do you say you're doing 894: Chopping cotton Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {NW} Interviewer: What different kind of grass grows up in the cotton field Where y- That you don't want 894: Grass burrs mainly #1 In this country # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Grass burr and of course Any kind of grass you don't want it in the cotton field Interviewer: What's grass burr 894: Grass burr it's uh Grass that has a burr on it and sticks to your clothes and gets you Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Mm-hmm And uh I don't know what kind of What What kind of grass you Have reference to there but any kind of native #1 Grass # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Gets you and Interviewer: What other grasses are are native to this area 894: {X} They have lots of them right now #1 They have # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: Uh we have slender Grama grass and we have uh Interviewer: You have what? 894: Slender Grama Interviewer: What's that {NS} 894: Oh it's a {NS} It's a very palatable grass Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Cattle eat And we have uh We have hooded windmill grass Interviewer: Mm-hmm That's good for cattle #1 Too # 894: #2 Uh-huh # And uh {NS} {NS} We have uh Honey Aux: What 894: Coca-cola We have uh Have pink peppers and we have uh Some other Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Thing there and then we have the Trichloris And we have the crow's foot Aux: A what 894: Coca-cola {NS} And uh There's needlegrass out there see that that's that old grass that uh You walk in and it gets in your socks and Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Is that good for cattle 894: It's good for them when it's dry after I mean when it's green when it after it gets dry why those old needles their tongue it hurts their tongues and they don't like it too well and I don't know they're are just {NW} Hundreds of grasses Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: What about um nowadays if you went to the store and bought something the grocer would put it in a 894: Paper bag Interviewer: Uh-huh What about Something that flour used to come in {NS} Aux: {X} {NS} 894: {X} {NS} Interviewer: What did Flour used to come in 894: {X} I have uh always seen it in bags Interviewer: Made out of 894: Made out of cloth in the old days but today Paper course but uh {NS} When I went to Mexico over there they've got it in a hundred and ten pound bag flour {NS} The whole thing is awfully dark But They would Use gingham girl and all that stuff to Try to Sell their flour you see and people'd get it and use it for clothes during #1 the depression # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: days Interviewer: What about the Um thing that The heap comes in 894: {NW} Well we call it tow sack I imagine that's what you're #1 Looking for # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Tow sack but uh It's a burlap bag and #1 Uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Any other names for it besides tow sack or burlap bag Did you ever hear it called a gunny sack or 894: #1 Oh yes uh-huh # Interviewer: #2 Crocus sack # 894: Gru- gunny sack I heard it called that but not Interviewer: Is it is it called that in this section of the country 894: Not very much no #1 Tow sack # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: is the one they use mostly Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um Say if you went out and got as much wood as you could carry in both your arms You'd say you had a 894: I had an arm's full of armload of wood Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} And on a wagon that didn't have a full load of wood you'd say he just had a {NS} 894: He just has a part of a load #1 or something else # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Do you ever say he had a jag of wood Did you ever hear that 894: Oh I guess I have that'd be a slang expression I #1 Never # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Never used it {NW} Interviewer: And if you opened a bottle and wanted to close it back up you could stick in a 894: Cork Interviewer: Mm-hmm And Say if there was a log across the road You'd say I tied a chain to it and we 894: And pull it across Interviewer: Or 894: #1 Pull it out of the way # Interviewer: #2 Use # Use another word besides pull You say we We tied a chain to it and 894: {X} I know what you're looking for but I Interviewer: Using the word drag you say we Tied a chain to it and {X} {NS} Interviewer: Um you'd say what time does the movie 894: {NW} Start Interviewer: Or 894: Begin Interviewer: You'd say it must have already 894: Begun Interviewer: And ten minutes ago it 894: Was over Interviewer: Or it it 894: Was going Interviewer: Or you mean it started #1 Is that ten # 894: #2 Oh it # It started Ten minutes ago Interviewer: Or ten minutes ago it or 894: It started Interviewer: Or it um using the word begin you'd say 894: #1 Oh # Interviewer: #2 Ten minutes # Ago it 894: It began Interviewer: And say if you've gotten someone some medicine you call her there you'd say why haven't you 894: Medicine Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Why haven't you taken your medicine Interviewer: And the person might say I already 894: I already took it Interviewer: And in another hour I'll 894: I will take another Interviewer: And you say a bee stung me my hand 894: Is swollen Interviewer: Or right after it stung me my hand 894: Hurt Interviewer: Or what 894: Stung It got bigger you'd say my #1 Oh # Interviewer: #2 Hand # 894: S- Was started swelling Interviewer: Uh-huh or it using the past tense of that my hand 894: Was swollen Interviewer: Or it what 894: Started swelling Interviewer: Uh-huh would you say it it swelled or it swole up or 894: No uh It was swollen Interviewer: Uh-huh um you say right after it stung me then it it 894: Started swelling Interviewer: Uh-huh well you could say started swelling #1 Or if you # 894: #2 Yes # Interviewer: Don't use the word start you'd say 894: It was swelling Interviewer: Uh-huh would you say it swelled or it swole up or 894: No no Swole up that'd be Poor English Interviewer: Uh-huh wh- why would what would be the past tense of that then that you would use 894: Well it was swollen Interviewer: Uh-huh and say um what different names are there for black people 894: Oh negroes and colored folks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {X} That's uh That's about the extent of the Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Of it I suppose Interviewer: What about joking names or sort of insulting names 894: Like nigger Uh I don't know unless it's uh How do you feel about the Interviewer: #1 Word nigger # 894: #2 Darkie # What Interviewer: How do you feel about the word nigger 894: Well Uh I uh Of course I have no objections to it at all but uh I understand they do Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They prefer to be called uh {X} Darkie or uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Something like that but uh Interviewer: Which word did Did people use when you were growing up 894: Nigger Interviewer: Mm-hmm so to you it it's just a neutral term #1 It doesn't # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Yes {NW} We had no had no negroes here in uh #1 Encinal we # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: We're {NW} Might say we never used it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Hardly Interviewer: What about someone of our race you'd call us 894: Now what Interviewer: What about your race #1 You'd say # 894: #2 Hmm # Interviewer: Or my race you'd say we were 894: We were American we were caucasians or #1 Something # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Like that Interviewer: Or just a more common name for caucasians you'd say we're 894: Americans or we are white Interviewer: Uh-huh um what about a child that's born with one parents black and the other parents white 894: Well he's a Half-breed #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Interviewer: Um {NS} And what did colored people used to call the man that they worked for 894: {NW} Master I suppose or boss or Interviewer: What would you call white people that you sort of looked down on they're sort of um They don't try to do anything for themselves they're too lazy to work 894: White trash Interviewer: Mm-hmm any other names like that 894: Oh I don't know I don't uh Nothing comes to my mind about it Interviewer: What would blacks call whites like that 894: I don't know I I've never been around any blacks I don't know Interviewer: Mm-hmm and some of them a French person in Louisiana you'd call him a 894: Call him a Cajun #1 Would that # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Any other term 894: Uh I don't know you'd Be a French Interviewer: Uh-huh did you ever hear coon 894: Oh yes coons that there I've used I've heard that expression also on negroes #1 Coons # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # What about coon ass 894: Coon what Interviewer: Coon ass do you ever heard that 894: No Interviewer: To mean Cajun 894: No Interviewer: And someone who lived out in the country who doesn't get into town much and when he does get into town Everybody can just look at him and see right off that he's from way out in the country they'd call him a 894: Country hick Interviewer: Mm-kay um what about someone who's uh worked with the ranches or cowboy what would you call him 894: Uh Cowboy we they {NW} #1 That's a word # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That's usually used in labor you use a cowboy Interviewer: Mm-hmm what about the term kicker 894: Kicker I've never used it Interviewer: What does it mean 894: I don't know Interviewer: What um do you call the Spanish-speaking people here the Mexicans people of Mexican descent 894: Mexican descent we call them Mexicans Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: But course they're not Mexicans but they Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We call them Mexicans and they are uh Laborers and Mostly Course some of them are Very Very wealthy and all that and but Interviewer: Mm-hmm what terms are there for Mexicans that Mexicans wouldn't like 894: Well we call them greasers Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: I guess that's what {NW} Greasers they eat lots of grease and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh I don't know Any English terms that they #1 Wouldn't like # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # What are some Spanish terms that they wouldn't like 894: {NW} Well you'd cuss curse them and uh use some of the curse words and And uh Interviewer: What would you call them 894: Call them a Cabron that there's a Interviewer: Cab- 894: C-A-B-R-O-N Cabron I heard that interpreted uh one time in court #1 As a # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: As meaning an old goat but uh {NW} For the Mexican people it More or less means a pimp #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: You Had a #1 Something # Interviewer: #2 What do you mean # A pimp 894: Well a man that uh Interviewer: Prostitutes or 894: Uh-huh And uh Interviewer: What about um um the term Chicano 894: It uh That's a new word that's been canned I don't think it's uh It's never used around here any that I know of We We have here we have what we call the Raza Unida Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Which is the united race to Mexicans they are going for that a lot Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Now and Interviewer: But this term Chi- 894: This Chicano that there is mostly a term these Laborers that working the People Interviewer: They like that term Chicano 894: I don't know I don't know Interviewer: Mm-hmm what what about um someone who's a sort of a lower class Mexican no 894: Pilon Interviewer: Huh 894: They call them pilon Interviewer: Is that insulting Or does it just mean laborer 894: Well a pilon means that uh just like a slave you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And I don't know whether it would be Insulting or not it's according to If he was a little bit better class and call him that he wouldn't appreciate it but uh Interviewer: What about the term pa- pachucos 894: Pachuco Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Well I don't know I The in the younger generation they don't uh seem to Mind it but uh Interviewer: What is what is a pachuco to you 894: Pachuco to me is a man that uh is a young Kid that's got lo- has the long hair and #1 The old # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: More or less like our uh Uh Interviewer: Hippies or 894: Hippies uh-huh More or less like our hippies Interviewer: Is he kind of wild or troublemaker or 894: Yes he's uh supposed to be they always are getting into some kind of trouble or something #1 Like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Do you ever hear them called just chucs? 894: What Interviewer: Chucs 894: No Interviewer: Or pachucos 894: Uh-uh Interviewer: What about um someone who's well of Mexican descent but can't really communicate well in either Spanish or English you call him a 894: {NW} I guess I'd call him a misfit #1 Wouldn't you # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # What about the term po- #1 Pocho # 894: #2 What # Interviewer: Pocho P-O-C-H-O 894: No I've never used #1 That I don't know # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # {NS} What are some um some other terms that people would use around here that um would be pretty insulting 894: To uh To uh Interviewer: To Mexicans or just to to anyone 894: #1 To anyone # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 894: Uh-huh Well you'd say a low count Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Low count low down Bastard or something #1 Like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: But that would be very insulting or {NW} Interviewer: What about um For Anglos what what terms for Anglos are there 894: Well that would be one of them And uh Interviewer: What is Anglo just a neutral term to you 894: Anglo to me is uh Is like myself I'm an #1 Anglo # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And the the other one the Mexican they are uh He's a Mexican I #1 Suppose or uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Latin Hmm #1 They seem to # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Going a lot now toward the Latin Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Wanting to be called Latins Interviewer: What about the term um pende- pendejo 894: Pendejo Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Well that means somebody that uh Somebody that Doesn't know anything kind of ignorant Interviewer: Mm-hmm is it very insulting or 894: No it isn't very insulting I Tell you you were ignorant you wouldn't Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {X} Be too badly insulted the you know #1 The course # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: If I were angry or something like that it might be Would always put a word or something in front of it Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 894: #2 And then # That away and Interviewer: And say if um there was kind of icy outside you'd say I didn't actually It's hard to walk out there I didn't actually fall down but a couple of times I slipped and I 894: Fell Interviewer: Or I might I didn't fall but I slipped and I liked to 894: Liked to have fallen Interviewer: Uh-huh do you use that expression much like to have or 894: Y- well Some #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # And someone's waiting for you to get ready to go someplace and calls out and asks if you'll be ready soon you'd say I'll be with you in 894: I'll be with you I'll be ready in a few minutes Interviewer: Or ju- 894: Or just a s- second Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NW} And say if you have a question I might say well I don't know the answer to your question you better go what somebody else 894: You better go ask someone else Interviewer: Mm-kay and you say um so then I went and 894: Asked someone Interviewer: And it'd say you're the second person who's 894: Have Who Has not been able to give me an answer Interviewer: Or who has what me that question who has 894: Who has brought me that question Interviewer: Uh-huh or who has using the word #1 Ask # 894: #2 Who have asked me # That question Interviewer: Uh-huh and something that you do every day if I ask you do you do it often you'd say yes I #1 All the time # 894: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Yes I 894: I do it all the time Interviewer: And you're asking me whether he does that sort of thing you'd say 894: Does he do Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Those things Interviewer: And you say I don't smoke but he 894: But he does Interviewer: And you say well I don't know if he did that or not but people 894: People say he did Interviewer: Mm-kay and you'd say if I ask you if you know a person you might say well I don't know him but I 894: I know of him Interviewer: Uh-huh you ever say I I heard tell of him or 894: Yes I heard tell of him Interviewer: Uh-huh and say if there was a loud noise I'd ask you did you 894: Hear that sound Interviewer: Uh-huh you'd say yes I 894: Heard that sou- I heard this sound Interviewer: But it didn't frighten me because I've what it before I 894: I've heard it before Interviewer: And say if I asked you about something you'd say well I think that's right but I'm not 894: I'm not very sure Interviewer: And you say this part of my head is my 894: Forehead Interviewer: And this is my 894: My hair Interviewer: And on a man hair here would be a 894: His beard Interviewer: And this is my 894: Ear Interviewer: Which one 894: My left ear Interviewer: And this is my 894: Right ear Interviewer: And 894: Your lips Interviewer: Or the whole thing is the 894: Face or Interviewer: Or 894: Your mouth Interviewer: Uh-huh and this is the 894: Neck Interviewer: And 894: Your Interviewer: What you swallow down is your 894: I don't know thorax or it I guess you #1 Looking for # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Your windpipe Interviewer: But say someone's got a cold they may have a sore 894: Throat Interviewer: Do you ever use the word goozle 894: Only jokingly Interviewer: How how would you use it 894: Oh you'd Goozle down a glass of beer or something #1 Like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # And you'd say these are the 894: Teeth Interviewer: #1 And # 894: #2 What # Interviewer: This is one 894: Tooth Interviewer: And the flesh around your teeth 894: The #1 What # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # The flesh around your teeth this is your 894: Gums Interviewer: And this is one 894: Hand Interviewer: Two 894: Hands Interviewer: And the 894: Palm Interviewer: And one 894: Fist Interviewer: Two 894: Fists Interviewer: And a place where the bones come together 894: Knuckles Interviewer: {NW} Or any place would be a 894: Joint Interviewer: And on the man this part of his body is his 894: Chest Interviewer: And these are the 894: The shoulders Interviewer: And say this is my 894: My leg Interviewer: And one 894: Foot Interviewer: And I have two 894: Feet Interviewer: And if I get down in this position you say I 894: Must be kneeling Interviewer: Or not kneeling but this like this 894: Oh Squatting Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} Any other way of saying that 894: I don't Interviewer: Do you ever hear down on your 894: Hunkers Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: I have heard that yes never used it it's uh {NS} Not Interviewer: What is your hunkers 894: I don't know That's why I never use it {NW} Interviewer: And this sensitive bone here this is your 894: Shin bone Interviewer: And say if someone had been sick for a while you'd say well he's up and about now but he still looks a bit 894: Looks a bit {D: peaked} Interviewer: Mm-kay and someone who's in good shape you'd say he's big and 894: Husky Interviewer: Mm-kay or he's not weak he's 894: Strong Interviewer: What's the difference between strong and husky 894: Well a man I would think that a man's Personality or person body would be Husky and strong would be his muscles Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: What about the word stout 894: Stout Well uh Stout is uh S- is like strong Interviewer: Mm-hmm you'd think of the person as being a little overweight if he's stout 894: It is used that way quite a bit yes Interviewer: Mm-hmm someone who's always smiling then loses temper you'd say that he 894: Good-natured Interviewer: And someone like a teenage boy who is just all arms and legs he's 894: Skinny Interviewer: Well she's always stumbling and dropping things he's 894: He's uh Oh clumsy Interviewer: Mm-hmm And a person that just keeps on doing things that don't make any sense You'd say he's just a plain 894: Plain goof I guess Interviewer: Do you ever use the word fool 894: Yes Some well Interviewer: How would you use that 894: Well As you ex- I start to question the Say he's a plain fool why Anybody that that makes a Mistake or gets into trouble quite a bit why He's Interviewer: Is that a very insulting word 894: Not a insulting word but It's a kind of a Might hurt a little #1 Bit # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: If somebody was Interviewer: And a person that has a lot of money but really holds onto his money he'd be a 894: Miser Interviewer: Any other name for him 894: Well uh We have a slang expression saying {D: chinche} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {X} Interviewer: {D: Chinche} 894: Yeah Interviewer: Hmm is that from Spanish? 894: I think so yes Uh-huh Interviewer: When you say that a person is common what does that mean 894: Well I guess his personality is is Very questionable Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: He's and uh Another thing is is Person that doesn't take care of himself or do anything Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Tries to elevate himself Interviewer: Then you just call him a 894: Commoner Interviewer: It it's an insult then 894: Well it uh Yes I guess so Interviewer: What if you say that a girl was very common what would that mean 894: It means that uh more than likely That she was a girl of the street or something like that I guess #1 Or # Interviewer: #2 Prostitutes # 894: Maybe mm-hmm Interviewer: And say an old person maybe around eighty or so who still gets around real well and does all their work and doesn't get tired You'd say for his age he's still mighty 894: Mighty active and mighty Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Strong Interviewer: Do you ever use the word spry or chipper or 894: Spry Interviewer: Huh 894: Spry yes #1 Mighty # Interviewer: #2 Mm-kay # And say if your children were out later than usual you'd say well I don't guess there's anything wrong but still I can't help feeling a little 894: Uneasy Interviewer: And someone else might say well they'll get home alright just don't 894: Worry about them Interviewer: And say a child might say I'm not gonna go upstairs in the dark I'm 894: Afraid Interviewer: And you say well I don't see why she's afraid now she 894: Been up there Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Quite often Interviewer: Or using the expression used to be you'd say why should she be afraid now she 894: Used to be Up there or used to be afraid or Interviewer: Uh-huh or sh- she wasn't afraid before you'd say she you'd say she usen't to be or didn't used to be or 894: Oh she didn't Didn't used to be afraid Interviewer: Uh-huh and someone who leaves a lot of money on the table then goes outside and doesn't even bother to lock the door you'd say he's mighty what 894: Mighty Interviewer: With his money 894: Careless Interviewer: And someone who's just the least little thing and he loses his temper you can't joke with him at all you'd say that he's 894: High-tempered Interviewer: Or he's too 894: Quick on the draw Interviewer: Uh-huh do you ever say he's touchy or touches or 894: Yes he's very touchy Interviewer: Uh-huh you'd say well I was just kidding him I didn't know he'd get so 894: Angry or mad Interviewer: And if someone's about to lose their temper you tell them to just keep 894: Just keep calm Interviewer: And someone who's very sure of himself and makes up his mind and then you can't make him change his mind you'd say that he's 894: Strong Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Strong-headed I guess there's Interviewer: Mm-kay heated 894: bull headed or something like that Interviewer: Uh-huh and if you'd been working very hard you'd say you were very 894: Tired Interviewer: Any other way of saying that 894: All All {X} Petered out #1 Give you # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Some Interviewer: And that's just a slang expression 894: Yes uh-huh Interviewer: And using the expression wear out you'd say I'm just completely 894: Worn out Interviewer: And you say there's nothing really wrong with that movie but sometimes she acts kind of 894: Act Kind of Like she weren't Had her feelings hurt #1 Or something like that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Do you ever use the word queer for a quarrel 894: Queer yes I've heard that a lot {NW} Interviewer: Has that word changed meanings in the past few years or how how would you define queer 894: A queer Of course is somebody that's uh A little different from anybody else and on the other hand there's another queer that's uh Person you know would be #1 Queer that uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Might say Interviewer: You mean homosexual 894: Homosexual yeah uh-huh Interviewer: Did when you were young did people ever say he is a queer or but not mean homosexual did people ever use the 894: Yes he I've I have heard that uh-huh he's Very queer In his Actions or something like that Interviewer: Mm-hmm and say if a person had been well then suddenly you hear that they've got some disease you'd say well yesterday when I saw them they were fine when was it that they what sick 894: When they took sick Interviewer: Uh-huh and if someone went outside in bad weather and came in with sneezing and coughing you'd say that he 894: Was taking a cold I'd think Interviewer: Or yesterday he 894: He was all right and wasn't sneezing Interviewer: Uh-huh But then he went outside and he 894: And he Started to sneeze Interviewer: He what a cold he 894: He caught a cold Interviewer: Uh-huh and if he couldn't take right then you'd say he was 894: {X} Very hoarse Interviewer: {NW} And if you do that you have a {X} 894: What I didn't get the Interviewer: {NW} If you do that you have a 894: Oh a cough Interviewer: Uh-huh and somebody who can't hear anything at all you'd say that they're 894: Te- They're deaf Interviewer: Uh-huh and say if a man had been out working in the sun and he takes off his shirt and it's all wet you'd say look how much I 894: Have perspired Interviewer: Or look how much I what using another word 894: Sweat Interviewer: And a sore that comes to head that'd be called a 894: Risen Interviewer: Or a 894: #1 Carbuncle # Interviewer: #2 Another name # Huh 894: Carbuncle Interviewer: Is that the same thing 894: I don't know I don't think so #1 I don't think so no # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # What about another name for risen 894: Well I suppose a carbuncle or a risen there's more or less Interviewer: What about a name that starts with a B a 894: A B Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Boil Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 894: #2 Uh-huh # Yes Interviewer: Is that the same thing 894: That's yes a risen and a boil are the to me the same thing Interviewer: Mm-hmm what about the stuff that drains out when it opens 894: Pus Interviewer: In in a blister 894: Blister is water Interviewer: #1 And if someone # 894: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Got shot or stabbed you'd say you have to get a doctor to look at the 894: Wound Interviewer: And sometimes a wound won't heal back right you get sort of skinless growth over it you call that it's gotta be cut out or burned out then 894: {X} Interviewer: Some kind of flesh 894: {X} {X} {NS} Interviewer: Do you ever hear proud 894: Proud flesh Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Oh yes Interviewer: What's that like 894: Proud flesh is an outgrowth of flesh on the outside of your s- That Where your skin won't cover it up #1 maybe # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # Do animals get that 894: Yes they do they Quite a bit you have to cut it off burn it off Interviewer: Mm-hmm which a- do cattle get it or 894: Horses especially and cattle get it too but cattle not so much Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Horses and their muscles Interviewer: Say if you had a little cut on your finger a brown liquid medicine you could put on that stains a lot 894: Iodine Interviewer: What about a real bitter medicine people used to take 894: Quinine Interviewer: Uh-huh did you have to take that 894: {X} Uh yes I did Mm-hmm I took it not too long ago during the war quinine for For uh The flu #1 Influenza # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Were you in the service 894: No I was not Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Wasn't qualified Interviewer: Why 894: I wasn't qualified I just had one eye Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Did you want to go or 894: Yes I tried to enlist Three or four different things but they never would take me they said they'd take me after the {NW} I'd been classified as world war one Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: As classified after Armistice Eighteen to forty-five I was in that draft Interviewer: Uh-huh um say if someone had been shot and didn't recover you'd say that he he didn't live 894: #1 He was killed # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Or he 894: Died Interviewer: Any nicer way of saying someone died 894: Passed away this Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Used Interviewer: What about a crude way of saying it 894: Kick the bucket Interviewer: Uh-huh and you say he's been down a week and nobody's figured out yet what he died 894: From {X} Interviewer: And the place where people are buried 894: The graveyard Interviewer: Any other names for that 894: Cemetery Interviewer: And what they put the body in 894: The coffin Interviewer: And you said when he died everybody went to his 894: Funeral Interviewer: And if people dressed in black you'd say that they're in 894: They're in mo- mourners Interviewer: Uh-huh they're in 894: In uh mourning Interviewer: Uh-huh say on an average sort of day if someone asks you how you're feeling you'd say oh I'm 894: Feeling fine Interviewer: And if there was something bad that you had expected to happen like child's walking along the top of a fence and You expect him to fall off and hurt himself then someone comes running in the house and tells you that he's falling off you'd say I just 894: Just knew he was gonna do that Interviewer: Mm-kay and if I ask you um when are y'all going to Miami you'd say well right now we're what to go next week we're 894: We're preparing #1 We're # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Planning Interviewer: Do you ever say we're fixing or we're aiming to go 894: Not aiming to go Fixing to go might use that sometimes Interviewer: What does fixing mean 894: Preparing Interviewer: Does that mean just sort of an indefinite future or does it mean immediately 894: Well I would think it would be immediately Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Fixing or preparing you're p- getting ready to Interviewer: And you say he didn't know what was going on but he what he knew it all he 894: He thought he knew it all Interviewer: Or if he pretended you'd say he what knew it all he 894: He acted as though he thought he knew it all Interviewer: Uh-huh and you say it was so cold last night that the pipes 894: Froze Interviewer: And 894: Bursted Interviewer: And you say the pipes have already 894: Thawed out Interviewer: Or they I was gonna wrap them but they've already 894: Bursted Interviewer: Because the water had 894: Frozen Interviewer: And if it gets much colder the pipes will 894: Freeze again Interviewer: And 894: Burst Interviewer: And say if it's um cold enough to kill the tomatoes and flowers you'd say last night we had a 894: Heavy frost Interviewer: What about something harder than a frost 894: A freeze Interviewer: Uh-huh and say if the lake froze but just around the edge you'd say that last night the lake 894: {X} Lake Froze Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Around the Had a light f- Light coat of ice around the edges Interviewer: Mm-hmm and talk about how tall the rooms are you'd say this room is about 894: Eight Feet tall Interviewer: Uh-huh what do you call this room th- that we're sitting in 894: I call it our living room Interviewer: Uh-huh and when you're getting old and your joints start hurting you say you've got 894: Got arthritis more than likely or a rheumatism #1 Or something like # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Is that the same thing 894: No I wouldn't think so I don't know Interviewer: Say um a really bad disease that um children would get they'd get a really bad sore throat and they'd choke up they'd die from it they used to have it a a long time ago 894: Wasn't pneumonia I don't think Interviewer: No they'd get the they'd get blisters on the inside of their throat 894: Oh tonsillitis Interviewer: Or dip 894: Diphtheria Interviewer: Uh-huh what about a disease where your skin and eyeballs turn yellow 894: Uh Yellow jaundice Interviewer: And if you have a pain down here and have to have an operation then you've got 894: Appendicitis Interviewer: And you ate something that didn't agree with you and it came back up you'd say you had to 894: Vomit Interviewer: Any nicer ways of saying that or is that the the nicest way 894: That's the nicest way I know some other ways that are not quite so nice Interviewer: Like what 894: Puke {NS} Interviewer: Anything that doesn't sound as bad as puke but sounds worse than vomit 894: Oh I don't know I Interviewer: Say if a person vomited you'd say he was sick where 894: Sick of his at his stomach Interviewer: Uh-huh and if a boy was spending a lot of time with a girl he kept on going over to the same girl's house like he was seriously interested in her you'd say that he was 894: He was uh Courting her is that Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Uh-huh Interviewer: And he would be called her {NS} 894: Her boyfriend or her sweetheart or something like that Interviewer: And she would be his 894: Sweetheart Interviewer: And if a boy comes home with lipstick on his collar his little brother would say that he's been 894: Been naked Interviewer: Mm-kay and when a girl stops letting a boy come over to see her you'd say she 894: Broken Broken off their #1 Broken up # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # And he asked her to marry him but she 894: Refused Interviewer: Any other ways of saying that {NW} Sort of joking ways of saying that 894: Stood him up I guess #1 Or something # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # They were engaged and all of a sudden she 894: She Broke the engagement Interviewer: Mm-hmm but if she didn't break the engagement you'd say they went ahead and got 894: Married Interviewer: Any joking ways of saying got married 894: Got hitched Interviewer: And at a wedding the boy that stands up with the groom 894: {X} Best Man Interviewer: And the woman that stands up with the bride 894: Best Best girl I guess Interviewer: Uh-huh do you remember hearing about a long time ago if people in the community would get married other people would come by their house that night and make a lot of noise and 894: Chivaree them Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: What was that like 894: Oh I don't know they Tried to Entertain them in such a way that they uh Would keep them Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Separated as much as they could and try to {NW} Interviewer: Was it all just in fun or 894: Fun yes Mm-hmm All in fun Interviewer: Was it very common around here 894: No Interviewer: Hmm 894: No Interviewer: When did you see one 894: {NW} I don't know is I ever saw one Course we always tried to frame up but Most Everyone when they get married they go off #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And That away why you Don't have a chance for #1 Unless you # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Frame it up on the other end but Interviewer: Um how would you use the term up or down or over talking about location 894: Up north and down south and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Over yonder Interviewer: Mm-hmm if you were going to San Antonio you'd say you were going 894: Up north Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: More Interviewer: What about to Freer you'd say you were going 894: Uh We were going I Down east I guess Interviewer: Uh-huh and Pecos it's a little south of here 894: It is east Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Freer is We go Going down east and Or going Interviewer: What about west you go 894: Out west Interviewer: Uh-huh and say if there was trouble at a party you'd say the police came and they didn't arrest just one or two of them they arrested the 894: The whole gang Interviewer: Any other words besides gang that you'd use 894: A whole Crowd or a whole bunch or #1 Whole # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: And when young people go out in the evening and move around on the floor to music you call that a 894: Dance Interviewer: Uh-huh what different kinds of dances did people used to have 894: {NW} Uh they used to have the old square dance and the quadrilles and the schottische and all of those #1 things # Interviewer: #2 The quadrilles # 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: What was that 894: Oh I don't know that's a Old-timey dance that they did out of Interviewer: Mm-hmm what about the schottische 894: Schottische Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Well that's a Kind of like the polka Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: What about Mexican dances 894: Mexican dances why they uh They have their special dances but uh They try to Do the same dances that the American people do Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {X} Interviewer: Did you ever learn any of the Mexican dances 894: No I never did {NS} Never Had The fact of the business is I never knew how to dance hardly Interviewer: Uh-huh {NW} Say if children get out of school at four o'clock you'd say at four o'clock school 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Does what 894: Supposed to go home I think Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: He doesn't why he Playing around on the road Interviewer: Uh-huh you say that at four o'clock school 894: School ends Interviewer: Uh-huh or another way of saying that school 894: Is out Interviewer: And after vacation the children would ask when does school 894: Start again Interviewer: And if a child left home to go to school and didn't show up in school that day you'd say she 894: Played hooky Interviewer: And you go to school to get a 894: Education Interviewer: And after kindergarten you go into the 894: To the uh Primaries I Go into the first grade Interviewer: What did you used to call it primary {X} 894: No it I it to me it was always school Interviewer: Mm-hmm and after high school you'd go to 894: College Interviewer: And years ago children sat on benches but now they sit at 894: In desks Interviewer: And each child has his own 894: Desk Interviewer: And say um all night long the wind 894: Blew Interviewer: And the wind has what those clothes off the line the wind has 894: Blown blown Interviewer: And it started to rain and the wind began to 894: Begin to bathe begin to go down Interviewer: Or it started to 894: Blow Interviewer: Uh-huh if the wind had been strong it was getting weaker you'd say it was 894: I'd say going down ordinarily but abating #1 That's is the word # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: I guess Interviewer: What if it's if it was weak and was getting stronger you'd say it was 894: It was going harder Interviewer: Mm-hmm and if the wind is from this direction you'd say that it's 894: From the south Interviewer: And the wind halfway between south and east you'd call a 894: S- Southeast Interviewer: And south and west 894: Southwest Interviewer: And west and north 894: Northwest Interviewer: And east and north 894: Northeast Interviewer: And you'd say um he ran down the springboard and what 894: Dove Interviewer: Mm-kay and several children have 894: Have Interviewer: What off that springboard have 894: {X} Dove off of it Interviewer: Mm-kay but I was too scared to 894: Try it Interviewer: I was too scared to 894: Dive Interviewer: And if you dive in and hit the water flat you call that a 894: Belly buster Interviewer: And {D: a playing child} puts her head on the ground and turns the 894: Flip Interviewer: Or on the ground she puts her head down and tries a 894: Somersault Interviewer: And you say he dove in and what across the lake 894: Swim Interviewer: And several children have 894: Swam across the lake Interviewer: And children like to 894: Swim Interviewer: If you get in the water if you don't know how to swim you get in the water you might 894: Drowned Interviewer: And you say yesterday he 894: Almost drowned Interviewer: And if someone went down for the third time then you'd say that he had when they pulled him out he had already 894: Drowned Mm-hmm Interviewer: And you say often when I go to sleep I 894: Dream Interviewer: But I usually can't remember what I have 894: Dreamed Interviewer: And this is what I 894: #1 Think # Interviewer: #2 Think # Last night I 894: I dreamed Interviewer: And I dreamed I was falling but just when I was about to hit the ground I 894: W- I Woke up #1 Awakened # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # And say if you have a um you want to check out a book you'd go to the 894: Library Interviewer: And to mail a package you'd go to the 894: Post office Interviewer: And you stay overnight in a strange town at a 894: Motel Interviewer: Or a 894: Hotel Interviewer: And you'd see a play or a movie at a 894: Theater Interviewer: And you were had to have an operation you'd have to go into the 894: Hospital Interviewer: And the woman that'd look after you 894: The nurse Interviewer: And you'd catch a train at the 894: At the railroad station depot Interviewer: And say if there was a piece of furniture that didn't fit exactly in the corner of the house just sort of diagonally across the corner you'd say the furniture was fitting 894: Catty-corner Interviewer: Mm-kay how how else do you use the word catty-corner 894: How do we use it Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Well something that doesn't fit In Takes in N- Whole corner and kind of Slants across and maybe is not filled up the Back of it Interviewer: Uh-huh say if there was two streets that cross and you wanted to get from one corner to the other instead of you were here and you wanted to get over to here instead of walking like this like you're supposed to #1 you just # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: Walk 894: Catty-cornered Interviewer: That would be catty-cornered too 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: And before they had buses in town they used to have 894: Streetcars Interviewer: Mm-kay any other name for them 894: Trolley Interviewer: Uh-huh what about tram- what about the Spanish name 894: Oh Trambia Interviewer: Uh-huh and you tell the bus driver this next corner is #1 is where # 894: #2 is # Where I get off Interviewer: And say um in Webb county Loredo is the 894: County seat Interviewer: And if you were postmaster you'd be working for the federal 894: Government {NW} Interviewer: And the police in town are supposed to maintain 894: Law and order Interviewer: And the fight between the north and the south was called the 894: Oh golly {NS} {NW} Interviewer: Where they freed the slaves that was the 894: {X} Interviewer: Do you ever of civ- 894: Of what Interviewer: Civ- 894: Oh the civil war #1 Yes uh-huh # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Any other names for that 894: Well the war between the north and the south civil war and the War to f- Free the slaves I guess the what is the call it the uh Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Not civil war I don't I I guess it was civil war Interviewer: Mm-hmm and you said before they had the electric chair murderers were 894: Hung Interviewer: And you say that man went out and what himself 894: Hung himself Interviewer: And if you were about to punish a child he might ask you not to punish him just give me one more 894: Chance Interviewer: And someone who always catches onto a joke you'd say he's got a good sense of 894: Humor Interviewer: And if we were planning to meet in town I'd say there's no need for you to hurry if I get there first I'll I'll wait 894: For you Uh-huh Uh I will wait for you Interviewer: Uh-huh and you say well we've got termites now but I'm sure the exterminating company will 894: {NW} Eradicate them Interviewer: Or will get get what of them will get 894: Get rid of them Interviewer: Mm-hmm and say if you wanted to brighten up your room for a party and you had a lot of things growing out in your yard you'd go out and 894: And arrange the furniture to where they Interviewer: Or you had some things in your yard you'd go out and some some things growing your yard you wanted to brighten up your room you'd go out and 894: Oh pick your flowers and bring them in Interviewer: Uh-huh and a child that's always telling on other children you'd call him a 894: Tattletale Interviewer: Would you use that word about a grown person 894: Uh I suppose some Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} No- not much Interviewer: What would it mean if you said a grown person's a tattletale 894: Well that they were carrying stories from one person to another Interviewer: Mm-hmm and you'd say um I have just what him a letter I have just 894: Written Interviewer: And yesterday he 894: Answered my letter Interviewer: But yesterday he 894: He wrote me a letter Interviewer: And tomorrow I'll 894: Write him a letter Interviewer: And you say I wrote him and this time I was getting a 894: An answer Interviewer: And you put the letter in the envelope then you take out your pen and you 894: Address the envelope Interviewer: Uh-huh do you ever hear people say you back the letter 894: No Interviewer: And you say I was gonna write him but I didn't know his 894: Address Interviewer: And the biggest city {NS} in the country is in 894: New York City Interviewer: Uh-huh New York City is where 894: In the state of New York Interviewer: Uh-huh and Annapolis is the capital of 894: Of Indiana Interviewer: Uh-huh and Baltimore is in 894: Maryland Interviewer: Mm-kay and Tulsa is in 894: Oklahoma Interviewer: And Boston is in 894: In uh {NW} {NS} Massachusetts Interviewer: Where in Oklahoma did you live when 894: We uh lived In the northeast corner up close to Miami Interviewer: Uh-huh this for about two years or 894: Mm-hmm {NS} We had a ranch up there a little ranch out there from Miami between Miami and uh {NW} And Pawhuska Interviewer: Uh-huh what made you decide to to go up there 894: {NW} The drought Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Had the drought down here and went up there {NW} Get the Green grass and more feed for our cattle and Well maybe we'd put more weight on them Interviewer: How long did the drought last down here 894: S- about seven years Interviewer: Gosh 894: Really really rough really rough lots of men that Had an awful big debt to pay off when they got through with it #1 Feeding cattle # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Mm uh you say Boston is in 894: Massachusetts Interviewer: And the states from Maine to Connecticut are called the 894: Uh The uni- uh {NS} New England states Interviewer: Uh-huh what are the states in the south 894: {NW} The southern states Interviewer: Mm-hmm I mean what na- name does the states around here 894: Oh y- You mean the names of the states Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Like Texas and Oklahoma and New Mexico and uh I guess you're getting West #1 Texas there # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} And uh {NW} Arkansas Kansas that'd be too far north and uh Mississippi {NW} And uh Louisiana Interviewer: Mm-hmm what about going 894: Georgia would that be one of them Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {NW} Interviewer: And George Wallace is the governor of 894: Of uh Alabama Interviewer: Uh-huh what about um Richmond is the capital of 894: Virginia Interviewer: And Raleigh is the capital of 894: Of North Carolina Interviewer: And beneath North Carolina is 894: South Carolina Interviewer: And um Miami is in 894: Oklahoma Interviewer: Or 894: {NW} Florida {NW} Interviewer: Huh 894: {NW} Florida Interviewer: Uh-huh and the state um above Georgia is the volunteer state is 894: Uh Tennessee Interviewer: And above Tennessee is 894: Oh Interviewer: The bluegrass state 894: Oh yeah Kentucky Interviewer: What's the biggest city in Kentucky 894: I suppose it is uh Is Frankfurt is that the biggest #1 city # Interviewer: #2 No # Starts with an L 894: Oh Louisville Interviewer: Uh-huh and the state above Arkansas is 894: Above Arkansas is uh Mis- Missouri Interviewer: Uh-huh what's the biggest city there 894: Saint Louis Interviewer: And the biggest city in Maryland is 894: Baltimore Interviewer: And the capital of the United States is 894: Washington DC And the old sea port in South Carolina is Charle- Charleston Interviewer: Uh-huh what about the big city in Illinois 894: Chicago Interviewer: And what are some of the cities in Alabama 894: Alabama Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {X} {NW} Oh I can't Call them to mind right now I Interviewer: The big steel-making city is 894: {X} Baton Rouge Interviewer: Or Birm- 894: Birmingham Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Uh-huh Interviewer: And the capital is starts with an M Mont- 894: Montgomery Interviewer: Uh-huh what about the city down on the gull 894: Uh In Alabama Interviewer: Mm-hmm It's Mo- 894: Gulf ports Interviewer: Or Mob- 894: What Interviewer: Starts with an M 894: Oh Mobile #1 Mo- mo- # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Mobile Interviewer: And some of the cities in Georgia 894: Atlanta Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: That's where my boyfriend lived {NW} Baseball {NW} #1 Uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NS} Atlanta and Interviewer: The one on the coast in Georgia is Sav- Sava- 894: Mac- Savannah and Is there a Macon Georgia Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {NW} And uh And the name of the person who was supposed to discovered America is Columb- Columbus Interviewer: Uh-huh and the biggest city in southern Ohio 894: Oh- Interviewer: Where the reds came from the baseball team 894: Oh Cincinnati #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 And # The city up in the mountains in North Carolina 894: {NW} Interviewer: Do you ever hear of Ashe- 894: Yeah Asheville Interviewer: Uh-huh what are some of the cities in Tennessee 894: Tennessee Shelbyville that's my Where my girlfriend came from {NW} Uh Tennessee is uh Interviewer: You like those horses up there Tennessee walking horses 894: Oh I don't know where they come from though Interviewer: Uh-huh what about where country music is 894: Oh yeah that's uh Nashville #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # And the city up in the mountains in East Tennessee is Kno- 894: Knoxville #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # What about where Chata- um where Lookout Mountain is that's 894: {NW} Interviewer: Chat- 894: Chattanooga Mm-hmm Interviewer: And in west Tennessee where Martin Luther King was shot starts with an M. Memph- 894: Memphis Interviewer: Uh-huh and the biggest cities in Louisiana 894: New Orleans Interviewer: Uh-huh and you say Paris is in what country 894: France Interviewer: And Moscow is in 894: Russia Interviewer: And say if someone asks you to go with them someplace and you're not sure you want to you'd say I don't know I want to go or not I don't know 894: I Don't know whether I want to go or not Interviewer: Uh-huh and if you want someone to go with you you'd say well I won't go 894: Unless you go with me Interviewer: And one of the largest um protestant churches in the south is the 894: Baptist Interviewer: And if two people become members you'd say they 894: Are members of the Baptist church Interviewer: Or they what the church 894: Became affiliated with the church Interviewer: Or a more common way of saying that last Sunday 894: Became members Interviewer: Or they what the church they 894: They joined the church Interviewer: And you go to church to pray to 894: God Interviewer: And the preacher preaches a 894: Sermon Interviewer: And the choir and the organist provide the 894: The uh Singing and songs and music Interviewer: Uh-huh and if you really like the music you'd say it was just 894: Beautiful Interviewer: And the enemy of god is called the 894: Devil Interviewer: Any other name for him 894: Satan Interviewer: What would you tell children is gonna come get them if they didn't behave 894: The old devil's gonna get you Interviewer: Uh-huh do you ever say the boogerman #1 Or the # 894: #2 Yes # Interviewer: Black man 894: Yes it Mm-hmm not the black man the boogerman Interviewer: Uh-huh what do people think they see around the graveyard at night 894: {NW} Spooks See uh {NW} The uh Dead people walking around well you call them the uh S- Skeletons and #1 Things I guess # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Supposed to come out of the grave Interviewer: Do you believe that 894: No Interviewer: What about a house that people are scared to go in 894: Haunted Interviewer: And you tell someone you better put a sweater on it's getting 894: Cool #1 Cold # Interviewer: #2 Or # Not really cold but it's getting a little 894: Cool Interviewer: Uh-huh or another word for that 894: Little fresh outside Interviewer: Uh-huh and you say well I'll go with you if you really want me to but I 894: Don't care to go Interviewer: I'd what stay here 894: I'd rather stay here Interviewer: And if you haven't seen a good friend of yours in a long time how might you express your feelings about seeing him you'd say I'm what to see you 894: I'm so happy to see you Interviewer: Uh-huh do you ever say proud to see you 894: No I don't use that word Interviewer: And if someone said something kind of shocking you sort of resented them saying it you might say why the very 894: Idea #1 Of such a # Interviewer: #2 Mm-kay # 894: Thing Interviewer: And when a friend of yours says good morning what might you ask them then 894: How are you Interviewer: Mm-kay what about when you're introduced to a stranger what might you say to him 894: How do you do Interviewer: Mm-kay and how would you greet someone around December twenty-fifth 894: Merry Christmas Interviewer: What about on the first of January 894: Happy New Years Interviewer: Any other expression do you ever hear of Christmas gift 894: At Christmas times yes Interviewer: How w- what would people say that 894: Yes sometimes they'll say Christmas Gift to you on before Christmas and Or right after Christmas so {X} Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: First season why you can e- Say a Christmas gift to you and they're supposed to give you a Christmas #1 Gift # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Do you ever hear people saying new years gift 894: I think so I think so Interviewer: Was it as widespread as 894: No I don't uh Interviewer: And you say I had to go downtown to do some 894: Shopping Interviewer: And say if you bought something you'd say the storekeeper took out a piece of paper and 894: And folded it or #1 Wrapped # Interviewer: #2 Or # 894: My Interviewer: Uh-huh #1 And when I got # 894: #2 Wrapped # Interviewer: Home I 894: Opened The #1 Tore tore # Interviewer: #2 Or he wrapped # 894: #1 The wrapping off # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # He wrapped it and then I 894: Unwrapped it Interviewer: And if you had to sell something for two dollars that you had paid three dollars for you'd be selling it 894: At a loss Interviewer: And if you like something but don't have enough money for it you say well I like it but it's 894: #1 What too what # Interviewer: #2 Too # 894: Too expensive costs too much money Interviewer: And on the first of the month your bill is 894: Very {X} Your bill is very high {NW} Interviewer: It's time to pay it you #1 pay it # Interviewer: #2 Time's to # 894: Pay it uh-huh Interviewer: Your bill is 894: Is due for due Interviewer: Uh-huh and if you belong to a club you have to pay your 894: Dues Interviewer: And if you don't have any money you could go the bank and 894: Borrow Interviewer: And you say in the thirties money was 894: Scarce very scarce Interviewer: And some places if you buy something or pay your bill they'll give you a little present and say that it's for 894: A pilon Interviewer: Uh-huh do people do that now what 894: No No there's Things are too expensive to give away #1 Or it seems like # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # What what are they used to how do they used to do that 894: Well anybody'd come in and they'd buy a nickel's worth of lard why we would give them a S- Little piece of {NW} Mixed candy and Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And they'd always come to your store because they wanted that pilon Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: That away is Interviewer: They did that at the store you worked at 894: Y- Interviewer: That 894: That I owned {NW} Interviewer: Is this in 894: I ow- owned the store in Encinal for about ten years Interviewer: Oh you did 894: Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Interviewer: Um what does a baby do before it's able to walk 894: Crawls Interviewer: Huh 894: {NW} Crawls Interviewer: Uh-huh and say if you were tired you might say oh I think I'll go over to the couch and 894: And relax Interviewer: I think I'll 894: Rel- Sit down Interviewer: Or if you're gonna take a nap you say you think you'll go 894: And take a Take a nap or Interviewer: You you don't sit down you 894: Lie down Interviewer: Uh-huh you say he was really sick um he couldn't even sit up all morning he just what in bed he just 894: He was laying around Interviewer: Uh-huh and you say she walked up to the altar and she what down 894: She kneeled down Interviewer: And if you see a friend of yours um walking home and you have your car you'd say may I what you home can I 894: May I walk you home or may I dr- take you drive you home or Interviewer: Uh-huh you say may I take 894: Take you home Interviewer: Uh-huh and to get something to come towards you you take hold of it and 894: And lead it Interviewer: Or 894: Pull it Interviewer: And the other way would be 894: Push Interviewer: And you said those boys get mad and 894: And fight Interviewer: And yesterday they 894: Had a b- real big fight Interviewer: Uh-huh for an hour they what 894: Fighting Interviewer: Uh-huh and ever since they were small they have done 894: Fought Interviewer: Uh-huh and um they got mad and 894: Mm {NW} They got mad and punched #1 Each other # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Or they got mad and 894: Boxed or fought Interviewer: Uh-huh and if you needed a hammer you'd tell someone go 894: And bring me a hammer Interviewer: Uh-huh and a game that children play where one child will be it and the other children will hide they call that 894: Hide and seek Interviewer: What do they call the tree that they can touch and be safe 894: The base Home base Interviewer: Uh-huh what about in football you run toward the 894: Right after lunch Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Got some business in Encinal where it comes out here {X} Interviewer: You say in football you run toward the 894: Goal Interviewer: And if you tell a child now that stove is very hot so 894: Be careful not touch it Interviewer: Mm-kay and if you had some groceries and didn't have your car you'd say you picked it up and 894: Carried it home Interviewer: Anything else you'd say besides carry 894: No Interviewer: You ever say toted it or packed it or lugged it 894: I'd say packed could say packed it home Interviewer: Does that give you the idea that it's something very heavy 894: No no not packed Interviewer: And say if a child left her pencil on the desk and came back and didn't find it there she'd say it say I bet somebody 894: Has stolen my pencil Interviewer: Mm-kay anything else you'd say besides stolen 894: Borrowed my pencil Interviewer: Uh-huh and say a child learns something new like maybe learned to whistle you wanted to know where he learned it you'd say who 894: Who taught you to whistle Interviewer: Mm-kay and something that a child plays with you'd call a 894: Toy Interviewer: Any other name for that 894: Playthings Interviewer: Mm-hmm do you ever call it a play-pretty 894: Play-pretty yes I guess so Mm-hmm Interviewer: Does that mean the same as toy 894: Yes I would think so not necessarily of course it would could Have a broader scope than a toy a toy maybe is uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Mechanical or something like that or an automobile or something Interviewer: But the play-pretty is something that 894: Play-pretty well could be {NS} Like a Maybe a Rag Well then I don't know Interviewer: Something homemade or something 894: Mm-hmm something a little Interviewer: Um Aux: Rag doll 894: {X} Interviewer: You say um say if you've lived in in Texas all your life say and I asked you how long you'd lived here you'd say I've 894: I have lived in Texas all of my life Interviewer: Or I've what lived here I've I've al- 894: Always lived in Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: In Texas Interviewer: Or he moved here in nineteen sixty and lived here ever 894: Ever after Aux: {X} Interviewer: Or ever he's lived here ever what he got married ever 894: Ever Ever after he got married he lived here Interviewer: {NS} Or ever si- 894: Forever Interviewer: Uh-huh and say you give someone a bracelet and you want to see how it looks on her you'd say why don't you 894: Try It on Interviewer: Or go ahead and what 894: Snap it on try it on Interviewer: Uh-huh or the opposite of take it off is 894: Put it on Interviewer: And you say you can't get in through there because the highway department's got their machines in and the road's all talking about tearing it up you'd say the road's all 894: Is all under construction is Interviewer: Or it's all tor- 894: Torn up Interviewer: And Aux: Blocked Interviewer: You say that wasn't an accident he did that 894: He did that intentionally Interviewer: Or he did that 894: On purpose Interviewer: And you say I got thrown once and I've been scared of horses ever 894: Since Interviewer: And you'd say she what him with the big knife she 894: Stabbed him with the big knife Interviewer: Mm-kay and say if you wanted to lift something heavy like a piece of machinery up on a roof you could use pulley blocks and a rope to what it up to 894: Hoist Interviewer: Mm-kay and now if you start counting to fifteen 894: Me start counting to #1 Fifteen # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: One two three four five six #1 Seven # Interviewer: #2 Slower # 894: {NW} Oh {NW} One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Nine Ten Eleven Twelve Thirteen Fourteen Fifteen Interviewer: And the number after nineteen 894: Twenty Interviewer: And after twenty-six 894: Twenty-seven Interviewer: And twenty-nine 894: Thirty Interviewer: Thirty-nine 894: Forty Interviewer: Sixty-nine 894: Seventy Interviewer: Ninety-nine 894: A hundred Interviewer: And nine hundred ninety-nine 894: A thousand Interviewer: And ten times one hundred thousand is one 894: Million Interviewer: And say if there's some people in line the person at the head of the line is the what person the 894: First person in line Interviewer: Mm-kay and behind him is the 894: The second person that's Interviewer: Kay keep going 894: Oh and the third person in line And the fourth b- person in line The fifth person in line The sixth person in line {NS} Seventh person in line Eighth person in line Ninth person in line Tenth person in line Interviewer: Mm-kay and you sometimes you feel you get your good luck just a little at a time but your bad luck comes all 894: All in a bunch all together Interviewer: Or all at 894: One time Interviewer: Uh-huh you could say it comes all at 894: The same time Interviewer: Uh-huh it um you say last year I got twenty bushels to the acre this year I got forty so this year's crop was exactly 894: Doubled what Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: #1 Last # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 894: Year's Interviewer: Exactly what as good exactly 894: Exac- exactly twice as good Interviewer: Uh-huh and would you name the months of the year {NW} 894: January February March April May June July August September October November December Interviewer: And the days of the week 894: Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Interviewer: Mm-kay what about sabbath what does that mean 894: Sunday Interviewer: Mm-hmm you call Sunday the 894: Day of the Lord I guess Interviewer: And if you meet someone during the early part of the day what do you say as a greeting 894: Good morning Interviewer: Mm-kay how long does morning last 894: Until twelve o clock Interviewer: And then you have 894: The afternoon Interviewer: Uh-huh how long does that last 894: That lasts uh twelve hours No uh Twelve to about six I guess or seven Interviewer: And then you have 894: Uh {NS} Afternoon And good afternoon and then {NS} Good evening Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Good evening Interviewer: When is evening 894: {NW} Evening is after Uh seven o clock ordinarily after Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Dinner time I guess or supper time Interviewer: How long does it last 894: Uh it lasts until Uh good dark and then it starts #1 Night # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # {NS} If you were leaving someone's house after dark you'd tell them 894: Good night Interviewer: Uh-huh what um if you were leaving someone's house at about eleven o clock in the morning would say anything as you were leaving 894: I would say goodbye I suppose Interviewer: Do you ever say good day 894: No I don't believe I've never used that expression Interviewer: Mm-hmm and you say if you had to get up and start work before um the sun was shining you'd say we started work before 894: Daylight Interviewer: Or before sun 894: Before sun up Interviewer: And we worked until 894: Sun down Interviewer: And you say this morning I saw the sun 894: Rise Interviewer: And at six o clock this morning the sun 894: Was shining Interviewer: Or the sun did what it 894: Rose Interviewer: And I was late this morning when I got outside the sun had already 894: Already r- Risen Interviewer: And you say um today is is Tuesday so Monday was 894: Was day before yesterday Interviewer: Uh-huh and Wednesday is 894: Is uh Today is Tuesday Wednesday would be {NW} Tomorrow Interviewer: Mm-hmm and if someone came here on a Sunday not last Sunday but a week earlier than that you'd say he came here 894: Week before last Interviewer: Mm-kay or on a Sunday he came here 894: Sunday before last Interviewer: Uh-huh what if he was gonna leave not next Sunday but a week beyond that you'd say that was 894: Sunday week Interviewer: Mm-kay and if someone stayed from the first to the fifteenth you'd say he stayed about 894: About fifteen days Interviewer: Mm-kay and if you wanted to know the time you'd ask somebody 894: What is {NS} What is the time Interviewer: Or 894: #1 What is the # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 894: What is the correct time or Interviewer: Uh-huh and you might look at your 894: Watch Interviewer: And if it was {D: in between} seven o clock and eight o clock you'd say that it was 894: Seven thirty or Interviewer: Or or another way of saying it 894: Past seven Interviewer: Huh 894: Past seven it's Past seven o clock Interviewer: Uh-huh it's half 894: Half past seven Interviewer: And there's fifteen minutes later than that you'd say it was 894: Seven forty five Interviewer: Or a quarter 894: Till Eight Interviewer: Mm-hmm and if you had been doing something for a long time you'd say I've been doing that for quite a {NS} 894: Quite a while Interviewer: And you say nineteen seventy three was last year nineteen seventy four is 894: This year Interviewer: And the child just had his third birthday you'd say that he's 894: Three years old Interviewer: And if something happened on this day last year you'd say it happened exactly 894: One year ago Interviewer: And talking about the weather you'd look up at the sky and say I don't like the looks of those black 894: Clouds Interviewer: And on a day when the sun is shining and there aren't any clouds you'd say that's a 894: Beautiful day Interviewer: Mm-kay 894: Clear day Interviewer: What about when it's real dark and cloudy you'd say it's uh 894: Stormy Or Stormy or Blusterous is Interviewer: Mm-kay what do you call fast moving clouds 894: Oh I don't know storm clouds I suppose Interviewer: Mm-hmm do you ever hear scuds 894: Mm-mm Interviewer: And if the clouds were getting thicker and thicker you think it's gonna rain or something in a little while you'd say the weather was 894: Real bad I guess real good maybe we should say Interviewer: Do you ever say it's um changing or gathering or breaking or turning 894: Breaking is when after if it's rain and it's breaking up why you'd it's uh getting over the #1 Something like that # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: {X} Interviewer: So you'd say it looks like it's finally going to 894: Going to break up or it's fin- Clear Interviewer: And a whole lot of rain that just suddenly comes down you'd call that a 894: Cloudburst Interviewer: Mm-kay any other names for that 894: Well they sometimes they use gully washer Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And things like that Interviewer: What about if there's thunder and lightning in it you'd say it's 894: It's a storm #1 And it's # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # And if it's raining but not heavy enough to be called a cloudburst you'd say it was 894: A heavy rain Interviewer: Uh-huh or this morning we just had a little 894: Shower #1 Sprinkle # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # What's the difference 894: Well a shower is heavier than a sprinkle a sprinkle is just to Settle the dust #1 You might say # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # What about if it's just a slow rain but lasts for a long time do you ever call that a drizz- 894: Drizzle #1 Yes # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Uh-huh Interviewer: What is a drizzle 894: A drizzle is when the water comes out comes down very slowly and uh Not very heavy Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 894: #2 And # Interviewer: What if it's so fine you can hardly see it 894: It's a mist Interviewer: And if you get up in the morning and can't see across the road you'd call that a 894: Fog Interviewer: And a day like that you'd call a 894: Foggy day Interviewer: Uh-huh um how long I'm really I'm not clear about how how long you were outside of um Encinal 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: You were in Oklahoma for two years 894: Uh-huh Oklahoma for two years Aux: {X} 894: What Aux: Four years 894: Four years Aux: Yeah 894: Were we up there that long Aux: We owned our land that long Interviewer: Did you live up there for #1 Four years # Aux: #2 We lived up there # Two years uh-huh 894: Three years and then we were Ten years when I uh {NW} Left here and Aux: {X} 894: Oh yeah that's right Away from Encinal Mm-hmm Interviewer: Uh-huh wait you lived in alla- Aux: Amarillo 894: #1 Amarillo # Interviewer: #2 Amarillo # For how many years 894: About ten eleven years ten about no about In Amarillo about Eight years Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: In Fort Worth two years Interviewer: Uh-huh and in Oklahoma about three years 894: Three years Interviewer: Have you and then for all the rest of the time you were living in Encinal 894: Yes {NS} Aux: Well we went away didn't you go to Smiley 894: No honey that's Aux: Oh that's a summertime {X} Interviewer: #1 Where's Smiley # 894: #2 Mm-hmm # Smiley it's over here close to Gonzales and Gonzales county the cradle of Texas history {NW} Aux: I mean your sister was a teacher over there 894: #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # {NS}