Interviewer: Okay now Tell me what a 025: {X} things in the shape of a {X} on the one end of it had a hammer on it and the other a {X} When people {X} {D: devil} I don't give a frick it's for a lot of good people. Interviewer: Alright. 025: They'd take them and hang them on their {X} y'know and on they'd drive their revs with the hammer part and then when we'd got to want to {D: skip the grabs out} they'd take that other thing and knock 'em out Now that's what I hear go, called go devil. Interviewer: Ah. 025: Only thing ever I hear called go devil. Interviewer: How long was it? was it about the size of a- of a 025: oh then'd uh {X} that's four to six inches Uh the spike end would have the sharp end was about I guess six inches I don't know about there Interviewer: I'd like to see it. 025: {X} Interviewer: Okay but that's 025: and that's what they used them for this mostly now for logging Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You can take 'em bore a hole in that hat on it and I'll hang it on her hands and take it right on with 'em. Interviewer: Right. 025: Take it right off the ground with the hammer part. Interviewer: I say. 025: Skipping with that other thing Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And then s a lot of times people did that with crowbars You know what a crowbar is. Interviewer: Sure. #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: I don't- I'm not sure I know what you mean by skipping them though. 025: Well that's skipping grab. Call 'em grab skippers. That'd be enough and s Grab out of the log you see. Interviewer: {NW} 025: I've got some of them over there and I used to do Interviewer: Say knocking the grab out? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Knocking the grab out? 025: Yeah Interviewer: What's the grab? 025: Oh now that's that thing that you drive in the log. Interviewer: {NW} 025: The pull Interviewer: The pull haul I see that's the 025: I can show you some things. all I need and I can tell you what they are I've got some of the greatest out there now. Interviewer: I want to see these after a while but it's this was the sort of thing that's driven into the log #1 {X} # 025: #2 Yeah. # Yeah, yes There's two kinds of grabs. There was grabs that was double grabs A long chain you know and they call them headers they tape that to the first log. Interviewer: Mm-mm. 025: And then there was other grabs that called rail grabs there's on the chain and one end of the gr- one grab on one end and one to the other one. And thataway they could connect two to- tulip- two together. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Go out yonder and you can go up the hillside you know and you'd pull it up {X} Interviewer: I see. I see. Well that's, so that's 025: The first 'un's the two that that had the Two grabs on one ring up here you know. Swiveling They'd call them headers. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And you nail them to the grip to the front grab. Thataway you know it'd pull straight. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And then them others they call a trail grab there'd be a trail grab A grab on each end of that chain. About altogether about {D: short lumps} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They took one on one log and one on another log and one back yonder hook another on that to the end and that end and you can get on the hillside you can just take a string of them off of there. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: If you's in level land then you can all your horses can pull you can hit the {X} Interviewer: Now were there any other now uh when you talked about plows before were there any other kind of plows that you, kind of plows you. The kind of plows you were talking about seemed more {D: elaborate}. Tell me about the kind of simple ones that are handled by just uh one 025: Well they just {D: turning} plows. And then they'd need double foots. Single foots it takes what you call a single foot lay off the ground with it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Take a double foot, plow their stuff with it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Take the turning plow you know and turn the ground to start with. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How about a {X} 025: Well they have that that's what I call a single file you know, little {X} a single footed plower to break up rough land with lay off with {X} Interviewer: How about the kind of plow that you use on a hill that you could flip over. 025: That's hillside turners you can flip it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Flip that thing you know it has a latch on each side you can flip that and {X} anyway you want it to you can go out this way and then when you got there you could flip a button go back around the hill. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But a turning plow just plows one way because their for level land you know {X} Interviewer: I see. 025: Sometimes you could start in the middle and sometimes you just go down the field you just put your where you want to plow. Interviewer: I see. 025: I've used them on hillside plow. It's handy. See thataway is about the only way you could do it. If you didn't have a hillside you'd have to drag your plow back to the other end. {X} And come back on it, you see. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Or you could plow going in the {X} Interviewer: I see, yeah, fine. Now the uh on a uh, uh on a wagon the um the uh, the things that a, that goes up between the two horses. 025: That's the tongue. Interviewer: And on a buggy. 025: Shaves Interviewer: And the 025: I don't know. Interviewer: The thing that goes through the wheel the wheel goes through the goes from one wheel to the other 025: That is the axle. Interviewer: Okay, now the, uh taking the wheel from the very center is uh. 025: There wasn't no wheel on the center Interviewer: At the center of the wheel the very center of the wheel 025: Huh. Interviewer: At the very center of the wheel where the axle goes through. 025: Oh that is a hub. Interviewer: Okay and then coming up from there are the 025: that's that wheel that fit right on there you know and then there's a nut big ol' nut Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: screw that on there Interviewer: Yeah. 025: keep it on. Interviewer: Uh-huh. What were the spokes what do you call the part of the wheel were the spokes went in to? 025: that's the f- rim Interviewer: and 025: And the hub short at the one end two down here at the bottom Interviewer: And what went around the rim? 025: one well that is the rim and the iron tire went around that you see Interviewer: Okay and what did you call you know what does one piece of the wheel that might have two spoke holes in it? 025: That's the hub. Interviewer: No up on the wheel. 025: That is the I would call that the I don't know the rim had a name huh. Which is a rim to start with you see. Interviewer: Well the rim but the rim was in pieces that's what I'm talking about. 025: Yeah it is, it's in sections. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And it's plowing in with the iron tire. Interviewer: Heh. 025: hell they don't know what they did seem like they call that the feller Interviewer: That's right that's what I wanted that that's what I wanted to hear what I wondered if they called it here that's what I was wondering about the feller, sure uh that was like the piece #1 the one the sections # 025: #2 yeah yeah # just a rim. The other word remains a rim, but they called it the feller or something like that. Interviewer: That's the word I was looking for. 025: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 That's the word I was looking for. # 025: of the wheel, about three spokes to a section Interviewer: That's the word I wanted, but I have it great deal of trouble trying to explain this to students of mine I tell them about this and they don't they never heard the word they're amazed that there is such a word for the outer pieces of the wheel. 025: Well it takes somebody that's been raised to that stuff and all I forget a lot of things. Interviewer: Now what about when you uh you uh hitch a horse to a wagon the that piece of wood that the horse actually pulls on. 025: That is a doubletree. Interviewer: Okay, now that would be if there were two horses. 025: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: What. 025: {D: Now they say} If you ever work one horse, you have to have it shaves like a buggy Interviewer: Well but, or we have doubletree. {X} But then in front of the- 025: And then the swingletrees face the tongue of the doubletree. Interviewer: Okay. 025: And there's a chain, I don't know {X} they called a stay chain that facing from the from the doubletree back to the axle. To keep one horse from pulling the other. that can get in the wagon you see. Interviewer: #1 Okay # 025: #2 Just get it so it'd work. # Interviewer: I see, okay. Uh, now let's go back to the hog uh raising again what did uh the uh uh the uh the male for the breeding animal. 025: That was boar. Interviewer: Okay and did they have did farmers and others use other words in the presence of women would they use the word boar? 025: They wouldn't hardly you know {X} Male hogs. {X} thought that wasn't just proper for women but now then they just say bull or boar there's more women into the cattle field now Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 And now # 025: #2 Gotta go behind the stump now uh? # Boar, bull or whatever jack Jenny Interviewer: was that another word you would avoid using around women? Jack? 025: No that's all you could do about it just the Jack. Interviewer: Yeah, okay, now that, the uh They would say that in the presence of women okay now let's take the 025: #1 from the time of # Interviewer: #2 Not # 025: boar and bull and men are sorta shy you know, about naming a boar. Interviewer: How about buck and, how about buck and ram? 025: Well they didn't seem to pay as much attention to that of course it's all the same and Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Just a buck or a ram. A ram, sheep or buck. Interviewer: I see. 025: Sheep had horns you just call it a ram and if it didn't have horns you're just a buck. Now that's where the ram Interviewer: #1 I see. # 025: #2 {X} # {D: come in and horn 'em.} You take some of them sheep you know they'd have a great big ol' horn. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: {X} Interviewer: They had those kinds around here with the- 025: They used to yeah, there ain't no sheep there anymore. People {D: dogs have to kill 'em} People went out of the sheep business Interviewer: Uh from the time that when the they When it's full grown you call it a hog. When it's first born it's just a 025: Pig Interviewer: Now how big can it be and still be called a pig, when 025: Well when they still call it a pig 'til it gets up to forty fifty pounds and they'll call it a shoat. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And then it gets out of the shoat it's a hog. Interviewer: Okay how, how big, what's the difference between a shoat and a hog? When is it when would you 025: Well a shoat's a {NS} is a you take it's like I told you a while ago a pig you can call 'em a pig 'til they get up to thirty, forty, fifty pounds and then on that they. They're shoats then 'til they get up to maybe weigh a hundred pounds and then they're hogs or something like that. That may not be just correct. Interviewer: No, but the basis is the rea- you, you ba- you base it on weight more than anything else. 025: Yeah, on size. Interviewer: I see, and then a female a full grown female is a. 025: Is a sow. Interviewer: And what about an unbred female? 025: Then she'd be a gilt. Interviewer: Okay. And the stiff hairs on a hog's back? 025: Huh? Interviewer: The stiff hairs on a hog's back. 025: On the neck? Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. 025: Bristles. Interviewer: Okay. And and the did you ev- did they ever have any wild hogs up here in the 025: They have had them. Interviewer: Did you call that anything special? 025: We call 'em wild hogs. They'd say in the mountains, you'd never get one of them {D: far enough} Interviewer: Mm. 025: People, they've, might, I knowed a few people catching 'em that you bring 'em in drink them do nothing with them wouldn't eat put 'em up and wouldn't eat They're just wild. Interviewer: Were these just animals that had gone uh. 025: Just hogs had gone wild you know. Some sows and Interviewer: Did they ever have any with the 025: Yeah them old big long Tushes you know just Several inches long. Interviewer: Now after you got around to to uh when they when they cut out the uh open range and put up the fences they you raised then Then where did you raise your hogs? 025: Well you take this page wire fence from some people {X} and make picket fences you know have to have something pretty close for pigs. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh then I have to page wire {X} and I'm okay to page wire fences you know put barb wire at the bottom to keep 'em from ripping it under Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {X} Interviewer: The uh Interviewer: The um really starts raining in a hurry here This has no no warning at all just comes down in a sheet that's amazing. I've never seen a rain begin so quickly. 025: {X} Interviewer: I better, I better see make sure my windows are rolled up. 025: My shotgun's loaded. One sitting against the little door and one the other Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: well a burglars will come in on you if you're a fixed for it you protect yourself Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: I've got two or three guns. My wife's good with a shotgun. Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 She can't use a pistol much # but she can use a shotgun. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {NS} I've got two pistols in there that I keep loaded I never have had to use them for anything like that. {NS} Interviewer: You don't have much uh 025: You was talking about that uh that Latham Interviewer: #1 Yeah # 025: #2 Marian Latham # I he's a fine feller I guess his daddy was a Methodist preacher and they's rai- raised a gang of boys you know and there's awful poor people and mom's stepmother cooked out there at the dormitory Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: This, these boy's daddy after he's an old man in that big family. He'd walk several miles out there in them knobs and come out there to that Mercy college to get education enough to preach. And he finally got it but now, a man that's got a big family, there's a whole lot of them boys and I don't believe there's any girls. And he used to come carry on meeting and stay for two or three days or maybe a week at a time when revival's on. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And he raised a good set of boys, some of them's preachers. There's one preacher in the bunch. But this Marian I know him the best one's that got the motel. Now I don't know how he ever got that he must've married into some money or something another. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: because he works for the electric people and has all these years. I don't know, he's old enough to retire. Interviewer: Did he live out sort of in in where, in the valley here? 025: No he was born out this side of Sevier over there in what they call the tenth district over there. Turn off out this side there to five oak farm turn off out there, and left there in the tenth district Interviewer: I think he woke me up this morning I talked to a man last night and he said I I asked if he'd wake me up at seven you know I had to call he said well maybe I'll have to get your clock cause I'm not sure anybody will be up at seven so uh but he did, he woke up- I woke up myself. 025: You ask him if he knows me now. Him and my boy belongs to the same lodge out there. Interviewer: I see. 025: They go to the same lodge. I forget what it is Eastern There's a lot along there Eastern star I don't know what it is. {X} They're good people. He's an awful talker. This Marian is I know one day they was putting in a light pole up here took 'em all day a whole crew of them took the whole day put in a light pole right up on here. I went up there two or three different times and old Marian he just quit and go talking to me you know Interviewer: #1 a huh # 025: #2 and the rest of the # fellers just worked on. Interviewer: Yesterday we were talking about hogs I forgot to ask you about the name what do you call a hog that's been fixed? 025: #1 Barrow. {C: pronounces it as Barry} # Interviewer: #2 Or castrated? # Can say it again please. 025: Barrow. Interviewer: Okay. 025: I don't know how that's spelled B-A-R-R-R-Y I guess. He's a boar 'til he's trimmed I mean you'd call it castrated anyway takes his seeds up Then he's a {D: barry}. Well that's the kind you fatten you can't you can't eat boar meat. I don't know how they do it I've been to the stock yards {X} but now I don't know how they do it. You kill a boar and you can't eat it. You kill a sow that's in season you know, and you can't eat that used to when we kill sows we had to wash that all off the clothes. You get one in there you can't eat it they're just strong you can smell it. it'll fill up your {X} I used to take my sows up there He had a great big boar. I guess he weighed six seven hundred pounds. He's mean. And uh they got to where they couldn't do nothing with him and this year feller let his. {X} And he let him have that and they kill it and they couldn't eat it. And he sold it to one of his sister's boys. And he took it out here {X} supermarket he had there then and they sold it and said that. They cut they didn't know it you know said they cut them hams and meat and sell them and said the folks would bring them back just about as fast as the took 'em about to get in a lawsuit about it. I don't know what they done or what they ever did do about it. But it was probably all rancid. This boy didn't know no better and Fred or the man that bought it for Fred they didn't know no better. But boy when they went to frying it they know better well you can smell that stuff for a long way. You can't eat it. If an old sow's in heat you can't eat that neither. You've got to watch that but now how they do that at the stock yards, I don't know. Interviewer: Huh. 025: These boars, I don't I don't know what they do I've asked fellers and they said they give them shots or something another and I've been there I used to sell a lot of hogs during the east Tennessee packing house You'd be in there, you'd see them come in there unloading them old sows you know and them all swelled up And I don't know what they do. they some kind of process it's just like people that runs dairies There's a wild onion smells like ranch you know a cow eat them you can't drink her milk. And I've Woman live right down below us here and she used to work for a dairy she said that the they had some kind of powder they'd put in that milk to kill that stench you know? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But there's something funny about that. You milk a cow every morning it wasn't in it, but milk her in the night it was in it. We used to have plot of them they grow along the creeks you know the bottom. Interviewer: You need a ramp or. 025: #1 well there's a wild onion in there # Interviewer: #2 something like that. # 025: between the wild onion and a ramp they's they'll eat cows eats them they like them Interviewer: Mm. 025: And they make a bloom on top of them with seeds you know on the top. And. I don't know, you just can't milk it, can't milk it. One time I got some stuff down here at the drug store something to put in it. It helped a little didn't help it too much. But this woman said they had some way of doing that and cow's will take what they call last utters and their bags will swell up you know in the crud and you can't hardly get the milk out well country people wouldn't use that Well she said if they can milk them {X} She said they didn't pay no attention to that so there you are you don't know what you're eating when you get meat and you don't know what you're drinking when you get milk and of course everything now is government expected. {X} inspected but sometimes they get around that government stuff Interviewer: Sure. 025: it's just like hogs there's days come now when they put these little butchers out of business. And uh I know several of 'em and they said that just allow 'em one day a week back when hogs was plentiful than beef And they killed people you know privately? Said that they had a federal man come and stay with 'em till they got out. Interviewer: Is that right? 025: And over here at Blount county I used to go down to the stock yard a lot and there's a fella over there he bought lots of ponies He rent a little he rent a little slaughter house over here somewhere near Maryville And he'd buy all these little old ponies you know ponies got cheap you got in and you'd get a great big pony that weigh five or six hundred pounds fifteen twenty dollars. And he'd buy all poor cattle I got to watching him he'd buy all the ponies and he'd buy all the poor cattle. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And the inspector went in one day and he had one of them ponies killed and skinned and laying on the table and cutting it up and make hamburger out of it. Put a little beef in it you know They put him out of business. Interviewer: Well You you know they were gonna eat gonna eat they were. 025: {D: Put it in your salad.} mixing it up you know Them ponies is you know they're they're plain as cattle and all but they say horse meat is is coarse, grainy meat. But he was grinding that and maybe grinding it twice you know and put a little bit of these old poor cow's meat in with it you know. He got by with it for a long time. And this inspector actually got so close on him you know he come in and caught him they shut him down right there and then like they broke him up. He had a store. {X} I knew the fella. He'd come into the stock yard. I forget what his name was but he lived over in Blount county. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Now they, they get by usually the inspector can't be there every minute. Interviewer: Sure, sure. In hog raising when you uh where do you keep your hogs? 025: Well you can like I told you yesterday most of the people had lots they'd put 'em in back before they got to having page wire, they'd nail on big ol' crocked rails and. They'd make a fence like that that'd turn 'em but you couldn't pasture hogs and sheep in a barbed wire for {X} barbed wire fence unless you had them awfully close. Hogs are a mean thing, they would get me. And I used to, {D: I used to have a lot} Maybe four or five I used to keep {X} per six acres {X} I had a page wire fence I put 'em over there and raise 'em. Interviewer: How about 025: They have lots around here the page wire I just, I used to raise a lot of hogs. Interviewer: How about a shelter? The shelter they they stayed in? 025: Well if you've got woodlands, they'll make their beds and have their pigs they'll carry great big {D: brush} you know you can have a house. Everybody try to have a little house for 'em to lay in you know. But these old sows was funny you'll have a good house there for 'em and they'll go and carry in great big brush. And make 'em and leaves and make 'em a great big bed and have 'em in a fence corner or out and under a tree or something another. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: One time I had someone here and had 'em fix so they could go into the barn and had a place fixed to go into the barn. My sow was gonna have pigs and I thought she was ready to have pigs and I shut her up. And the next morning I went down there and looked at her, she was {D: gaint} it seemed she'd done she had done something Interviewer: I'm sorry did you say she was, she was 025: Huh? Interviewer: She was what? 025: Well I said she was hadn't I her put in the stable you know to have her pigs that night had her good bed in I fixed her she going to the barn shed you know go in there and I can shut her up. And I shut her up one evening and at this time I thought she was ready to have pigs. Interviewer: Is that what {D: gainked} means? 025: Huh? Interviewer: {D: Gainked?} 025: She was {D: gainked} Hog didn't have a lot like she hadn't had nothing to eat #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 I see. # Oh I see. 025: She had her pigs and it come a big rain and the branch got out A nail rail fence over there, was on yonder side of the branch. Well I turned the sow out I seen there something the matter I turned the sow out and I followed her. And them little pigs laying over in the fence corner right on the branch bank And they was there and I got me a big basket and went over there and got 'em and carried 'em back over and put 'em in the stables and she'd come on back to 'em and I laid laid over there all that you know I thought she was ready to have pigs and she had them the night before. Interviewer: I see. 025: Right along and instead of going in there and it was fixed so she could go in there Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Instead of going in there and having 'em in that stable she went over and had 'em on the bank of the creek. They'll carry in great big brush, they would drag 'em in. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They'll fix 'em up a great big thing. That's just nature you know. And I, hogs will do a whole lot better, and cows too if you'll let them have their way. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Let 'em have their calves wherever they want to and let 'em have their pigs where ever they want. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They'll do a lot better. It's just nature. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: It'll take care of 'em. Interviewer: Now. Uh did did the enclosure right around uh uh the hog house or whatever you'd call it uh um did you ever have a did you call that anything? 025: What? Interviewer: The kind of uh fence or whatever, little fenced in area around the hog house. 025: No they just depends on how many lots you have some people they have more than others you know some of them have a whole field, some 'em just have a lot maybe half acres, acres, something like that. Interviewer: The hog house is just right in the 025: #1 Get 'em in there so they can go in there and lay you know. # Interviewer: #2 In the lot is so # 025: Oh I used to build one, maybe twelve, fifteen feet wide and four or five six feet wide Cover it one way you know leave the front of it open so they can go in. Interviewer: Did you ever have a place out in the out in the pasture where you'd um uh where you'd milk the cows? 025: Yeah we used to do that {X} you can't milk every cow out in the field some of 'em you can, some of 'em you gotta put 'em in the stables. Sometimes you got to put {D: tiggers} on 'em. {NW} And uh all cows ain't alike, you've got a good ol' gentle cow, you can just go out there Get you a stool and sit on there and sit the bucket down take both hands and milk the two gallon bucket fill the right amount in a little bit. Now others, you've got to take them, put 'em in the barn. Not a lot of people you know these cows have got calves And if you're going to use them for milk cows you've got keep the cows in the stable or in a lot somewhere or another and let you cows come in at milking time, and let them have what the milk they want you to have, half of it. That's the general rule, let them suck two tits and you get two. Interviewer: Uh-huh I see. 025: But now then people's quit milking there ain't no money, all the farmers here just quit milking they just turn their cows out and let 'em have their calves you know and then keep them cash to fall {X} next year or something and seal the calves off and raise more. There's, there's no money anymore, very people milk, just very few. Used to everybody had a c- nearly everybody had a cow or two. Some of them had a half a dozen I have had ten or twelve at one time y'know so Interviewer: Did you have a, like that place uh Did you ever have a place out in the corner of the field where you might put a uh a rail down or something to keep the cow in there when you milked her? 025: Oh some people would do that you know and they'd maybe have to bring their cows in from somewhere maybe if you had a like a fine cash cow {X} and have to bring 'em all here. And I remember one time my grandpa led the cows Take them about a mile from here and go over there and get 'em and had a lot here put 'em in for the night. And uh keep 'em from wandering around and then the next morning milk 'em and then take 'em back over there. Interviewer: Did you call that place anything in particular? 025: No just Interviewer: You ever like uh 025: Cause there ain't a name for it just like. Interviewer: Like a little gap. 025: Just a lap or gap or or pen Interviewer: #1 I see. # 025: #2 or something like that you know. # Interviewer: And you and you and the place where the hogs stay, did you ever call that a hog pen or a 025: Well now a hog pen is thing that's built up off of the ground you know, floor Interviewer: #1 I see, that's what I wanted to know. # 025: #2 but you put the hogs you know # They's an old out yonder it's about rotted down, I ain't had enough hogs lately. You'd make them hog houses out of things you want to, so some of them Maybe fatten two hogs and let a little pen {D: that wasn't more than six for six or something} but I'd always had 'em about sixteen feet long and about six or eight feet wide you know sometimes I make 'em big enough that I can put a partition in 'em you know put big ones on one side and smaller ones on the other or something like that you know. Interviewer: I, was that, was that floor, that floor uh Was that just under the house or did it come all the way out? 025: I mean just like this floor, just up off the ground you know it wouldn't rot that you had to leave space for something from the {X} hog pen will get all nasty Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You've got to keep them cleaned out you know. Interviewer: Sure. 025: Them hogs are a thing that it's hard to keep a hog at this time the weather in a pen, they'll just a hog can't stand no heat. You'll kill a hog in just a little bit, you take a hot day like this time of year, if the sun is shining, you take a hog and If you take him to market, you've got to start early in the morning, they can't no heat. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: As one of my brother-in-laws, he'd had a stuck sow off somewhere or another and it was a hot day and he stopped up here to {D: spring} {D: fella leave her there on the road} down the way home for him. He had a, I guess he had this sow in a wagon, pickup truck or something. He had to {D: stop start} getting her some water and those sows are getting so hot. He got a bucket throwed the bucket full with water on her it just killed her deader than four o'clock right there. Interviewer: Is that the 025: They just can't stand it. Interviewer: Is that right? {NW} 025: You can go to the state He'll go for the packing houses and you hardly ever went there for what they was some hogs to laying there that had died I don't what the done with 'em I guess they made them up in the tankage or something. Interviewer: In the what? 025: They made the lot of that put a lot of that in tankage, put something else with it you know and sold it back to people to co- to uh feed their hogs, that tankage, it make 'em grew I don't know what all that in it, I bought a lot of it. It sure would make hogs grow you know, tankage would You'd find bones lots of times in it where they they'd run it through some kind of a mill but maybe they'd miss it {D: gonna make a} great big bone anyway. They ground the bones and all of it up. I don't know how they done it, but the packing houses. Interviewer: Hogs do eat their, their Do sows ever eat their pigs? 025: Yeah, Interviewer: Yeah that's what I 025: Yeah I had one one time that would eat 'em as fast as they come I never let her have no more. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But there's a cause for that. The cow, they the what not not the c- When a sow eats her pigs, she needs something, she's some kind of vitamins or something, now if you let 'em stay outside, they hardly ever do that but if you put one I had a mean sow one time, she's a big sow couldn't keep her no more. And I kept her in the, in this pen and uh from the time nearly that she was bred on 'til she had her pigs. And one day I was out there at the barn, and I come back out and I hear pigs screaming and I went back out there and that old sow was having 'em and eating 'em just as fast as they come. Just turn right around and eat 'em. But as a general rule if you had a sow out in the field or out somewhere there's something they get, some kind of minerals or something that they they eat ain't got that makes them eat their pigs is what people argue and I don't know what they're talking about and I know it works, because I kept that {X} you know and it's the only one I remember having that just eat her pigs just as fast as they come. Interviewer: Mm. 025: She had and you can get a sow too fat. See I had kept her up there and fed her good and she was too fat a fat sow That's ready for market Things like that They don't have as good of a look through pigs as a sow that's just ordinarily kept Interviewer: Uh-huh. Was that pen did that, was the, did, was the entire flooring, floor area, was that entire part covered or was there some part that was open? 025: No, I know's take a place like that you know pen, you're {D: encovered} Interviewer: Uh-huh, the whole pen is covered. 025: Yeah, the whole thing and But you'd always need your take boards or something you see sheet iron draws heat. Hogs can't just can't stand heat. Interviewer: And they 025: You can run one a little whiles, try to catch it or put it in another field and you're just as liable to kill it or not, they just can't stand it. Now cattle, you can just run them horses will you still wouldn't work horses You've got to be careful with your horses cutting wheat and heavy work you know, they'll get too hot. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. With the uh cattle, did you have a place next to the barn where they could come in and maybe even get in under the rain? 025: Oh yeah. Some people do and some don't, some people don't even ain't got no shade. There's a fellow right over here adjoining me his cattle comes and gets in the creek they shade on my side and the creek's between us. And he th- these hill flies will aggravate the cattle to death they'll run them to death in the summertime. And they'll get in the shade or they'll get in the water If they can get in the water, they get in it up to their necks to keep them flies off of them. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And them heel flies ain't been here too long. When I was a boy there's flies on the back oh he's talking about the the Joe Woods and that old man Dave Hendrick And Dave Hendrick explained explain that to me what happened. It's a cross between our fly and a western fly. People got the shipment of western cattle here you see from out west. Well this is a mix Our old fly was just a regular cattle fly, and they just covered their back up but they do lay eggs or something in there and make great big ol' larva as big as your finger in their back and then next spring they have to get 'em out or Interviewer: Was that kind of a bum? 025: Yeah, just a worm Great big worm, as big as your finger Uh we'd catch 'em and squeeze 'em out {X} {X} find out what happened, he said what Dave Hendrick said {X} He said this was a cross between the western fly and our fly that caused these heel flies and they'll get around the cow's heels you know and and they'll run, they'll just go through fences or anything it'd just run 'em crazy {X} Now that generally comes in May and June and then it's all over. But now then there's a face fly that comes after that. And that's what give cattle the pink eye. Face flies, people have that, we had trouble with it cattle go blind with it They will just work around, they're worse on white face cattle than they are black ones. And uh this Eyes were just inflamed you know and they would plum blind they would. We had one last summer that went plum blind. Got a boy down here, he's a pretty good vet. Keeps some medicine, he come up here She was alive. She'd run into the barn, the fence. He brung his boy and son-in-law, they had to, couldn't get her in the barn you know, she couldn't see. But she had couldn't get close enough to her get a hold of her. Them boys Lassoed her you know, throwed a rope over her neck and two of them held her and he give her a shot and put some stuff in her eye and she here she is she's alright. But they will, I've seen them at the stock yards where their eyes would bust. Interviewer: Is that right. 025: It gets so bad you know, their eyes'd are bust. Interviewer: #1 Gets uh # 025: #2 But they've got a remedy for that # now, you can get it in town. But the longer it lasts in 'em the worse it gets. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They'll finally go out and some of them never come back. Their eyes will be They get up there and they The place where they'll bust, and when they're bust, their sight never comes back you know. Interviewer: At at the barn, they the place where the uh the cows go, there might be a little extension out in the barn where they can walk in under. What do you call that? 025: A what? Interviewer: Oh it's that, it's a little, like a little roof that uh kind of comes out from the #1 barn roof. # 025: #2 Well they call that a shed. # Interviewer: Okay, that's {X} That's called different things, I might sound silly but some people call it a 025: Well we'd call that area a shed {X} I got two barns, one of 'em got a shed and the other one ain't. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But them sheds now they obviously {X} down here, in these two sheds course uh One of them's open and the other one's got hay in it but these cows will go in there and lay you know. Keep salt in there you know, you lay block salts you know, if you leave it out in the rain, it don't last as long as it does if you put it in the dry If you put it in the dry, it'll twice as long as it will out in the rain salt will melt you know. Get a puddle of water It won't melt too bad from the rain but it'll melt if if it gets water around it I used to keep cattle there down in the bottom of the creek, it'd overflow and maybe I'd lose a whole block of salt at one time and it'd just melt over night where the water gets over to it you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh yeah. Uh, when, when the hogs use the barn, when you let 'em right into the barn, uh 025: You could let 'em go into the barn but now that doesn't doesn't mean, you could. That is almost just the last chance you get the hogs in your barn the fleas will get so bad they leech you up. You can't go with the barn without the fleas getting all over you. We used to get in the back Could put 'em in the barn if you're going in the barn. Hogs creates fleas and they create flies. Interviewer: Alright. When they went in the barn though, did you call that, and you said mention the word stable. And I just wanted- 025: No that's a stable that you keep your cattle in. In big stables some barns are bigger than others these down here is big stabled. It's an old barn or big stables are bigger and are stabled up this barn. That's where you put 'em in, got a door to 'em and shut 'em up. Interviewer: Was. Did you ever call that a hog stable? 025: Uh no, maybe if we had a certain stable down there that we'd keep a hog in we'd call it down there in the stable where the hogs stayed or Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh but # 025: #2 something like that or # hog lots Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: We've got a lot right out here now and We always get hogs out there and we'd still call it the hog lot. Interviewer: Mm. 025: {NW} Two acres and {NW} still call it the hog lot. Interviewer: What do the, how does the whole barn set up, your big barn? Uh what uh Could you kind of describe it for me? 025: Well I can show ya out here what time would you uh Interviewer: Well first tell me about it and then 025: #1 Well what just what do you mean # Interviewer: #2 Well well well I # what uh for instance what What did you use if for if you had the stables in, you had some stables in there but what else? 025: Well Put the hay in the barn loft {X} Put the hay in the barn loft and put it on the shed where you an get the {X} got it down there in stables and and then the sheds too if we got a lot of hay and ain't got too much room. I mean I don't have room for it all the time. Used to hay sold good, it don't sell so good now. People, everybody like I told you had a mule or something to farm with, and had a cow or two to raise her milk to the family you could sell all the hay you had. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Well people nowadays, these milk trucks will drive right to your door you know and people's got jobs and working and it's easier to they think, to keep a to buy the milk than it is to keep a cow, buy a feed for her y'know. Interviewer: Sure. Did you ever uh did anybody around here call that anything other than the barn loft? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Other than the barn loft 025: That's all ever I hear Interviewer: Did they never 025: Loft. Interviewer: Yeah? Did you ever hear it called a mow? 025: A what? Interviewer: A mow? Or a haymow? 025: Uh-uh. Well I heard of that haymow but I've never heard of it called a barn loft I don't know what that haymow means unless it's just a rick of hay outside something like that. Interviewer: I see. 025: And I might add, {X} there's a lot of people you know that'll used to stack their hay. Just put in a big pole and stack their hay, I guess that's what you mean and then later on, if they wanted to have barn room they could put it in and they'd stack it there you know they'd dry it out and then get a baler to come stationary baler, people used to have stationary balers you know and get dry it up. Bale your hay. But now and then there's nobody puts up hay any more hay like that. Everybody puts up their hay with a, with a baler. Interviewer: Did you ever see a covered hay stack? 025: Well I've seen ricks of hay where people had covered 'em with canvas or something like that. Interviewer: But not with like a roof over it. 025: Well they just thought, they just pack it up you know maybe and then have a stack of hay as big as this room and then they get big tarpaulin or some big ol'', some kind of canvas and put over it and I seen some down here two Sundays ago at this Baptist hospital there's two big wagon loads there there at the hospital that went out from the hospital I guess there's a hospital property. And they had old big. Tarpaulins or some kind of canvas over them you know. Course they was going to put that at the barns no more but I guess they didn't have time and they just covered it with that to keep it from getting wet 'til they could get it unloaded. But I have seen it {NS} just uh Took out thataway you know, and packed up lay something under, this hay on the ground will soon rot And cover it up with something another there Interviewer: Do you still call it a rick even if it was as big as this room? 025: Well they don't make 'em that big sometimes. Now one time I went to To Florida. Son-in-law took me and he went to work at the plant and he got out {X} payday We went through there and went through a cooler load. {X} And all through that country you know they, that's the way they put their hay up. They just make uh we call 'em shocks or stacks. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They ain't too big if they're shocks And if they're big enough they're stacks so we gotta pull out. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And now these fellas will just make 'em you know and great big uh you know just not too big just. That's the way they did they said they let it stay there and just {D: fed} it out like that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Was it, it wasn't uh it wasn't piled up in the same as you. 025: It was just the shocks start big at the bottom and run off at the top you know, {D: they would hurt water} for a a whole winter. {X} You can put 'em up dry 'em out on this fall and then bale them next spring {X} that water just It turns water just goes about so deep and that's it, well it. When it goes so deep the sun'll come out you know and keep it dried out. Interviewer: I see. 025: And people used to thresh wheat and oh have big has stacks, or big straw stacks you know and and let the cat around, the cat'll eat that straw. They'd go plumb through a stack of hay. Eat whole, plumb through a stack of hay. Interviewer: How big, how many say wagon loads have you seen in a stack of hay? Say a really good sized hay stack, how many wagon loads might that be? 025: Well all that depends you know on how big the wagon loads you've got. You could put several loads of hay. You could make a stack as big as you wanted or as little as you wanted. You could make it to hold a half a dozen wagon loads or make it to hold three or four, just depends you had a pretty good idea, you and then you'd just have to start it so big you know. Interviewer: Is a couple thousand pounds of hay 025: Ooh oh yeah, there'd be more than that in a lot of 'em. Interviewer: Where'd you keep your grain? Or where do you 025: Well we had places just to put that I'd go out there with a big garner made out of poplar. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh. Poured in them Interviewer: What do 025: Then hold. I then hold four uh fifty, sixty, maybe seventy maybe a hundred bush loads I know the last year we raised oats was a hundred bushels and we put it up there and two garners and didn't have 'em full. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {X} Interviewer: Is uh Are the garners in a in a in a special What building are the garners 025: They're right there and they're right in a walk way between 'em, one end's a crib you know and under it all I keep my car or truck in there, plain 'em We don't use them garners much anymore, we don't make no grain anymore. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Few years ago I had a feeling. Oats you know, I had them in there, still got some of them. Interviewer: But you didn't call it a granary. 025: Yeah I called it a granary and that's what it was but these were places where you put it you call them garners. Interviewer: I see. 025: There's four of 'em. Interviewer: #1 I see, and you could drive a wagon in between the crib. # 025: #2 You can # Drive the wagon in there. Interviewer: Between the crib and the 025: Yeah. Interviewer: granary. 025: Yeah. Interviewer: Wa- was the, was the crib considered part of the granary too? 025: Yeah used to try a place in there you can drive through it but we finally close up the back end there you know and we just back the wagon in there and when we hauled that on the wagon and and got to hauling it in the For the tractor and the four wheel wagon, you could just back 'em in there. It's easier than turning than turn it all that out shut the door and nail it back up, had to keep it nailed up. Interviewer: But, was the, was the crib considered part of the granary and the 025: Yeah, but we put the crib was over here you know and that's where we put our corn we gathered the corn you know in the in the year. But now then, you can't they have they've even while they'd gather {X} and then pick up in a year so you could sell it or do whatever you want to it. Now then that that's played out there's only one combines I know of in here. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They see a store and {D: hit shell} {X} Fellow out right next to me. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They gather that and it's got a great old big ol' long pipe And it'll hold about a hundred bushels it's two side of it. It'll hold a hundred bushels to the side a little'll fill that up. And then if they're gon' sell it, they've got wagons And they'll just run it out that pipe and then take it on to the mill or if we're going to this fella up here, he's got thousands and thousands of chickens, he raises his and to feed his chickens, but he's got places at home where he can empty their stock, y'know. And he's got mills to grind that up and make chicken feed out of it saves him from buying so much and then he rents a lot of land around here and grows milo milo for things It's, the seeds ain't as big as wheat or something like that but makes awful good chicken feed he grows a lot of that and combines it. And he makes that stuff all up but it saves him thousands and thousands of dollars. These seeds are getting to be out of reason. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: These people going out of the chicken business on the count of thieves. Thieves {D: harden} chickens they came out of those here while back Where they was killing little chickens by the thousands, they just. Interviewer: I saw that. 025: Couldn't raise the chickens and come out on the thieves. And that's why this fellow shines up here, why he {D: furnishes scat} {X} more chickens. He's got 'em up there by the thousands He's. Naw I've got plenty. They've got {X} my neighbor down here, he built. He built three houses in there then, three houses that held fifty Had fifty-two thousand chickens, had a ton. Now got three houses, but they quit, and using the houses for something else, they're still up here. They raised {X} down there. This fellow up here lays bout Keep laying chickens and hens lay eggs Interviewer: What do they call that little thing that you take chicken around in the maybe you might put the little chicks in when 025: Coop. Interviewer: Pardon? 025: A coop. {NW} Interviewer: That's what I 025: {NW} Interviewer: Before we had uh refrigerator and icebox, how did you keep your milk and butter co- uh cool? 025: Well we've got a big stream down there and water'll run through there, we keep air in that way and other people in there Used to people'd have bells and tie a rope around 'em or something, and let down the well then later on, begin to get {NW} iceboxes. Have to get your ice over here at Sevierville and go over there and get you a hundred pound ice and put it in that there thing to keep your milk and butter and things like that in. Interviewer: Did you ever have a little kind of a house thing down at the the uh spring? 025: Went down to spring, I just, it's so wet though that you get your feet wet going down there. A spring, we've got a big spring. And uh it's concreted on each side you know and then there's a place about a foot and a half wide or maybe two foot down through there, follow the stream of water around through and it's cool. And they fix it there you know, put up the put the milk and the butter and everything in in there. But then you had to be awful careful when the creek got up. The spring is nearly low as the creek and a lot of times when the creek'd get up and back the spring branch up and you'd have to run down there and set it all up or lose your milk. A lot of times you'd lose it. Interviewer: What'd you call that place where the concrete was? Did you call- 025: Well we just called it the spring box, something like that. {X} Interviewer: I see, did anybody ever dig dig a oh, maybe a place for storing potatoes, dig it in a, dig us into the ground or in the #1 side of the road? # 025: #2 Well now they don't # thrive around here. I know we used to try every which way in the world to save sweet potatoes. But now you're talking about Irish potatoes. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: People would take Irish potatoes and they would lay some straw or hay or something on the ground and then they'd cover 'em up with that and then they'd cover that up with dirt. And then'd, then maybe just stick some planks up, plant. {X} I kept mine, had a little house built into the chicken house down there and I'd keep mine in there in the dry. You could save sweet potatoes that way all winter, but you couldn't do much with Irish pot- Sweet potatoes. Now they sprouted down here in the {D: board's creak section} Used to raise lots of taters to sell on the market. They had regular houses for that and kept 'em at a set at a certain temperature. And then they had to keep 'em there until next spring when tatoes- potatoes got high you know. And then take them over to Knoxville and sell 'em to markets. {D: Sore}, market. Interviewer: When they dig that into the ground and cover it with straw and then cover it with dirt. 025: No you didn't dig a hole, you just laid it flat on the ground. If you dug a hole, water might stand and kill it. Interviewer: Okay. Did they call that anything? 025: I just called it tater holes. Interviewer: Oh okay, it was called a hole but they didn't dig a hole. 025: No they didn't dig a hole but they'd go in there you know and they'd stick their hand in under there I tell you When rain get 'em, that's what everybody you do, you'd see them around in people's gardens, some people didn't put 'em in the {D: dry} but I always did when I could. {X} With the place with the bottom or the one with no floor in it you know. Interviewer: What would you call this place right around the barn with the stock. 025: That's the barn loft. Interviewer: And then the, and where they the uh animals graze, 025: That's your pasture. Interviewer: Uh. Did did they ever grow cotton around here at all? Any at all? 025: Oh people used to grow a little for their own use, none for market. Interviewer: Did you ever grow any? 025: Yeah my, we grew it a little you know. Interviewer: Could could you uh.