025: {X} {B} {X} {X} Ambulance there Highway man Interviewer: But it looked bad 025: It's just about everyday down there. {NS} Interviewer: But it looked bad 025: A lot's happened captain They've closed this road round to Gatlinburg {X} through there and the traffic all comes through here Interviewer: I see 025: That's what's the matter Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: They're- I reckon gonna do something pretty soon Interviewer: What's the date today? Do you know? 025: I don't know It's about the twenty-fifth I guess Sounds like it ought to be {NS} {NS} {NS} Interviewer: Think it is the twenty-fifth 025: It's the twenty-sixth Interviewer: Okay It's good It's good for old brains to know what day it Uh It is Now you started telling me before about this community Could you ex- Uh What- What is the community called? 025: Wears Valley Interviewer: And the uh Uh And what's your full name? 025: {B} Interviewer: And where were you born? 025: Right here Interviewer: Would you tell me something about your now about your uh your own background and about your family? {NS} 025: Well I can go on back to my great, great granddaddy first settlers ever come in here I've got a record of that on paper They come to this country in seventeen and ninety-four and settled when the Indians left and settled here that's the first white settlers was ever in Wears Valley and he entered land great grand- my great, great granddaddy my granddaddy's granddaddy anyway Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and he entered land here so part of the generation is still here Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: and that was in seventeen and ninety-four and what land I've got- I've got around a hundred acres of land here, and what land I've got has never changed names Interviewer: {NS} Is that right? #1 Is that right? # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: This farm has been under the {B} that right? Now That was that That was your father's uh That was my grandfather's grandfather Uh-huh okay And that was on your- your father's side? 025: my father's side Interviewer: and where was your mother born? 025: She was borned in Gatlinburg My mother was wed But now she died when I was a baby and I can't give you too much background on the {D: Whaleys} because far as that end Gatlinburg is a long ways far #1 {D: at that time} # Interviewer: #2 Sure # 025: and she died She come to Wears Valley teach school and she taught the second school Little Greenbrier over there over there in the park there, little old school house is still over there Interviewer: Where'd your father meet your mother? How did they-? 025: She come to Wears Valley to teach school Interviewer: I see your your father How uh- How much formal education did your mother have? 025: Well now I don't know back then they I guess they had I guess they'd let them teach just kind of what they gotten out for high school, you know Interviewer: Uh huh and 025: Gatlinburg turned outside of school teachers and preachers Interviewer: Uh huh 025: A lot of them I don't know where they got their education Interviewer: How big was Gatlinburg at that time? 025: Well Gatlinburg was just back up there in the mountains that was all, it wasn't big at all Interviewer: Mm-hmm 025: Gatlinburg never did build up 'til the park took it over Interviewer: Mm-hmm 025: In nineteen and twenty-six My grandfather {X} Had a doctor Doctor Huffman he was a German doctor He lived over on Hills creek I got some fellows to go and get him and I stood three days getting him out here and I had to take him back and I had to take him back in a horse and buggy and then they was just {X} that was in twenty-six {X} store that's there now and another {X} there and Andy {X} built his hotel up there he had built that just to feed his sawmill man you know and it just wasn't- Gatlinburg was just a wide place in the road Just back to the mountains It wasn't no town Or no nothing and that's all built up since the park took over see that's what put Gatlinburg on the {X} was the park and they built that road across the mountain and the North {X} Interviewer: When did the park When was the park Did the park really start developing? 025: About thirty third-ish I don't know just exactly what year but early thirties Interviewer: And how far is the park from here? 025: Now the park comes from the watershed to that big mountain Interviewer: So it's just about a couple miles over here? 025: I guess, a little over that I can show you out there, but now I've always heard my grandpa say that Wears valley is six miles long and four miles wide Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: and uh right over here is just it ain't but a mile Probably over there I guess it would be according to that it'd be three miles from here {X} to the park. Interviewer: Right. Let me just get myself straight now in directions What What direction is that? 025: That's East here is East Interviewer: #1 That's East # 025: #2 East # and that back this way is West Interviewer: Okay 025: That way is South and George {X} north Interviewer: Right now how far is it from here to the Blunt county line? 025: Four miles Interviewer: Four miles Uh That would be 025: Due South right about South Southwest Interviewer: Now Um What's your address here? 025: Route seven's here Interviewer: Say that again please 025: Route seven Sevier Interviewer: Okay and the county? 025: Sevier Interviewer: And the state 025: Tennessee Interviewer: And uh your occupation? 025: I've always farmed that's all I've ever known Interviewer: Okay uh and how old are you? 025: I'm seventy-six years old Interviewer: and your church? 025: Methodist Interviewer: What's the name of the church? 025: Wears Valley Methodist Interviewer: And uh- could you tell me a little more about Wears valley how many people are there you said it was four miles by six miles but how about the- um- how many- how many people are here? 025: Oh Lord I don't know Earl could you tell more about that that I can the biggest part of them A lot of them you know are Registered up Out there as farmer And the rest of them work still in {X} Here and yonder {X} I don't know. I wouldn't have no idea what the population is If you go back to the census a few years ago Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: That's the only way you'd find that Interviewer: Well 025: I couldn't tell you and nobody else can't tell you Interviewer: Is your general feeling though that are more people here now than before? or fewer? 025: Oh Lord There's several times more people than the last thirty or forty years ago They come and go You see when that park people were gonna run them out of the park They just went to the four winds {X} a lot of them come here just wherever they can {X} at the place you know might even come out of the park and people's just coming from everywhere else Florida and anyone then where they can buy a piece of land {X} building {D: there's a man} built right on top of that mountain over there Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: come from Florida here and they've come from other places you know Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: There ain't too many of the old timers here Interviewer: But you say there are more people here from from out of state than than uh now in the in the 025: well a lot of them it's hard to say there's there's as many as is the old timers and the people that's borned and reared here Interviewer: uh-huh 025: there's a side of people that's come out of the park Just like I told you and the other #1 places # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Wear Valley's a land high in here and people is hunting it you just name it you just get on and sell the piece of land on pricing Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: It's nearly as high as Desmond Gatlinburg owner out in the city Interviewer: Is that right? 025: Yeah. I reckon it's just because that park Interviewer: Alright 025: people want people like Wears Valley Interviewer: I can understand that 025: They like to come in here and build they're coming here from other places anywhere they can buy there's people in here that you don't know they're here hardly 'til you hear something about them Interviewer: {NW} Do you uh- Uh uh Could you tell me something about the school you went to? 025: I went to- there used to be a school right up here on my land They called it the Crowson School. I went there 'til the end of I don't know probably nineteen ten or nineteen and twelve and then the Presbyterians come in here and build a school they call {X} and they run it awhile the Presbyterians and then they sold it to the county it's still going on and building new the old school house got burned up that I went to and they build a new brick school up here It's a {X} or something like that up to the school- #1 house # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 025: I finished touch finished the rest of my schooling there Interviewer: At- at the Wear Woods 025: Wear Woods school Interviewer: Okay and how old were you when you stopped uh school? When you finished? 025: Well I was about eighteen years old when my dad died In nineteen and fifteen and I had to quit Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: grandfather was living but he's old #1 and I had to # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 025: quit and build a farm {D: after} eighteen Interviewer: Was that about uh- What grade was that? Did they have- 025: Well that was just about when you go through up there is about what you get now in high school Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: {NS} just about Interviewer: Okay 025: or a little better Interviewer: yeah okay 025: They run them now- they run them through now {X} Interviewer: Alright, they sure do. 025: This is from the women up there in that {X} good teachers Interviewer: uh-huh 025: you had to walk the chalk line and you had to pass your grades before you got this Interviewer: Uh-huh. What- What 025: #1 Had to # Interviewer: #2 And what was- # 025: go to another one. Interviewer: {NW} yeah what was it uh uh the school named after your mother? Uh or was it because it was on your property? 025: No, it was- You mean that school here? The Fauston school? It come off of the Crowson land When granddaddy give it to 'em you know to- as long as it's used for school purposes and then when it quit for school purposes it went back to the original owner at the farm and then it come back to him Interviewer: Now Are most of your friends around here Uh-Uh Uh what do they do? 025: Well different things you know Different things {X} works the {X} Plant Lot of them works out here {X} Some works in Knoxville Interviewer: Mm-hmm 025: Around different places Interviewer: #1 What was the- # 025: #2 {X} # works I guess at the {X} plant Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: or out here at this knit- this here knitting mill over here in Sevier these uh people in here and the women all works at Gatlinburg Interviewer: What kind of work do they do in 025: Uh wash dishes and cook Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 025: #2 {X} # work at them motels and hotels Interviewer: I see 025: There's a set of women works up there Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: Just a set of 'em- I've got a girl that works up there She's been there I guess for twenty years She works up there {X} Western Union bus stop she sells tickets {X} There's a set of women that works in here from Gats- that goes to Gatlinburg that's where these three women been the other day when they come back home got crippled up there down there Interviewer: I see that's terrible 025: Anything. Some cleans houses and cleans rooms, some cook I've got a neighbor over here work years {NS} good cook, she cooks. Some cooks and some wash your dishes, some cleans house, some #1 does another. Whatever the need. # Interviewer: #2 I see. Uh-huh. # Uh, how long does it take to drive to Gatlinburg from- from your- from your house? 025: Ordinarily about thirty minutes Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: if you don't get held up down there Interviewer: No, this road you have to drive mighty slow 025: Yeah you've got to go slow Interviewer: {X} 025: Let's see it's about uh uh six, seven I guess it's about well it's thirteen miles from here to Sevier Well I guess it'd be 15 miles from here to Gatlinburg It's a little further from us highway out here to Gatlinburg and then it's to Sevier Interviewer: Mm-hmm 025: Course it depends on where you go to in Gatlinburg Interviewer: Yeah, sure. 025: Just go to the city limits it wouldn't take that #1 far # Interviewer: #2 Right # Uh. Have you belonged to any clubs or organizations like with the cultural Uh- organizations or farming organizations social organizations 025: No, nothing none that I know of I used to do {D: uh campaigning} lot of work through that office out there way back yonder measuring tobacco Interviewer: Mm 025: See they had to elect committemen you know, and I was a committeeman a long time And I measured tobacco for a number of years Work through that office- that's all I ever done away from home on the farm Interviewer: Would you tell me a little more about that What is- what was a committeeman? 025: Well they'd elect someone, they still do that you know from each district Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: There's a chairman and vice chairman and the ordinance they had five of them you know Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: the chairman he was the head man #1 he was # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 025: on top mm They've still got that. Interviewer: you were the committeeman from this 025: I was for a long long time you know Interviewer: Is that- was that an elected office? 025: Yeah well you elected just for the people Interviewer: Sure. Sure. 025: With the- with the district Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: the district Interviewer: How- how long would you say you did that? 025: Oh I guess ten, fifteen- about fifteen years probably Interviewer: Can you tell me a little but about what the committeeman has to do? 025: Well he just go out there and meet you know, attend the meetings learn what you could and try to pass it on to your neighbors Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: help them out {X} my committeeman job was to do that {X} it's your job to measure tobacco anything else that needed to be done #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 excellent # 025: through the di-, to the district each- each district had a committee you know Interviewer: uh-huh Well that's what I was- I was wondering. You said measuring tobacco- was that I didn't understand what 025: Well you see tobacco's {X} you had to see if they had too much or not #1 enough # Interviewer: #2 Oh I see # 025: if they had too much, well they had to pay a {X} #1 if they didn't have enough # Interviewer: #2 Maybe if they- # 025: {X} Interviewer: I see measuring tobacco then was really checking to make sure people weren't raising more than their allotment 025: And I measured with a chain in acres and tenths but now then last year too I measured got to measure with the tape and it went in hundredths Interviewer: Is that right? {X} 025: It wasn't so bad where you could let a man get by you know with a tenth of an acre or something like that you know sometimes it just went to chains and tenths and they put it to the nearest whatever it was Interviewer: I see 025: but now then it get- got a little stricter the last year or two I measured I measured with a tape and that got down in the hundredths instead of acres and tenths Interviewer: #1 right # 025: #2 you see # and that hundredths is a whole lot closer than acres and tenths Interviewer: Yeah Certainly do they uh- are- are there pretty uh severe um fines? 025: Well they don't do that anymore, they cut you down now you're just allowed so many hundred pounds Interviewer: I see they don't measure 025: Yeah they go back over your records you know and get what you have raising Now then it's just if you got a half acre of land and you just they allot you a thousand twelve hundred or sort of whatever your last few years has been you know. They ain't gonna measure tobacco and if you got too much where you just can't sell it Interviewer: Right 025: got to sell what your allotment says to unless you can buy some they got plenty of it people like me I ain't got no tobacco this year I can't tend it and fellow that been renting it to for a number of years he got him a job, went to work and so you can't just hardly get anybody anymore I ain't got no tobacco this year I'm gonna try to get someone to tend it next year and save my allotment after so many years you know. It used to be five, I don't know what it is now, you don't tend a thing, you'll lose your allotments Interviewer: I see what uh What was what- where do you- where did you raise them did you just have a 025: huh? Interviewer: Did you raise it? Did you just have a Where did you raise it on the farm? The tobacco. Did you have to put that up in a special place? 025: Well you had to hang it in the barn you know Interviewer: Did you cure it yourself 025: Oh yeah yeah Interviewer: Now did you raise all Do you mind if I smoke a cigarette 025: No no, I smoke all the time Interviewer: Uh- The um uh What I was wondering about was if you uh- you could raise all you wanted for your own use 025: you could way back yonder, I know people you could well known people they'd raise this old bull faced you know they called it bull faced just an old strong tobacco people could raise that for their own use Interviewer: How do you spell that? 025: what? Interviewer: That's bull? 025: The bull faced {X} Interviewer: Bull face. F-A-C-E 025: it's just an old big green oh it's strong Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 {X} # It'd kill a man that hadn't never been smoked Interviewer: {NW} 025: If you don't smoke {X} just pour it down Interviewer: okay. thank you 025: My son he comes here and he smokes a lot {X} Interviewer: Have you traveled much? 025: No. Been down to Florida a few times Interviewer: Uh Did you ever live outside of the county? 025: Oh no. I'll never live nowhere but right here born here Interviewer: Now we talked about your your mother was from Gatlinburg you know Gatlinburg you don't know much about her her parents 025: Well I know a little. Interviewer: Tell me what you know 025: {X} The Crowsons you know Interviewer: First tell me about her and then we can concentrate on the Crowsons but what How do you spell that family name of hers? 025: Whaleyf. W-H-A-L-E-Y-F Whaleyf. Sevier county is full of them Interviewer: Okay and now just tell me tell me whatever you've been 025: I don't know about {X} She She died before I could remember and uh she come to Gatlinburg and was raised up there come down here and taught school father married her I was born then when I was twenty one months old, she died my grandfather he finally wound up here and I took care of him when he died had been here about three years all of {X} and the Reagans Maples and {X} they're all kin folks fella come here one time talking to me about {X} burial lots {X} and he's from Gatlinburg and we got to talking and he said "How do you know so much about Gatlinburg?" Interviewer: {NW} 025: I said everybody in Gatlinburg {X} Interviewer: {NW} Do you know anything about the about the Whaleyfs what--where they came from originally? When they came to this country? 025: I think now I think the Whaleyfs come from North Carolina I've seen that they put out a piece in the county paper about where all these people come here and I kept it, but I don't know where it's at I think the {X} There's two bunches of the Whaleyfs There's brothers Johnny Whaleyf and ol' Billy Whaleyf and one bunch of them settled in Gatlinburg and the other in big Greenbrier and they call one the Greensbrier Whaleyf and the other the Gatlinburg Whaleyf my mother come from the Gatlinburg side Interviewer: I see 025: And this roadway out in Severa Well now if you can get ahold of him well course you ain't you're just interested in my part of {X} Interviewer: I'm interested in anything you've been 025: I asked him one time tried to find out how much kin me and him was he's sheriff {X} Stayed sheriff here for twelve years and uh he said "I can't tell you" He said my mother was a Whaleyf and my daddy is a Whaleyf said my daddy is the big Greensbriar Whaleyf and my mother was the Gatlinburg Whaleyf but he couldn't tell me much and I went and asked his brother and he knows a little more than he did when it comes to a showdown their mother and my mother was first cousins as children Interviewer: I see Do you know anything about when the Whaleyfs came to this country to the United States from England or Ireland or Scotland? 025: I don't I don't know Interviewer: okay 025: When they come here If I can find that old county paper it told but I don't know where it's at now it's here somewhere they give a record of that you know which come here first the Whaleyfs, {X} Reagans and the Maples all I do remember in that there's an old man with the name of Gatlin Up there and I don't know what will happen to him but that's where it got its name Gatlinburg {X} Gatlin Interviewer: I see He was one of the original settlers 025: He was one of the first Interviewer: Did your father farm all his life? 025: Well now my father got crippled up the horse run away with him and broke his leg and he's crippled up. he couldn't do much farming he had a grocery store around here store He kept several {X} things like that Interviewer: Moving things in and out 025: Yeah he sold goods and then he'd hold a lot of extra equipment {X} He done a lot of that because he's cripple and his leg wasn't set back right you know he couldn't you know get about the farm them days you had to do a lot of walking the farm you know you couldn't ride the tractor you didn't have them Interviewer: alright sure How long did it take to get to Knoxville on a wagon 025: I think they'd doing leave here early maybe they'd camp somewhere it'd take a day or over over a day I guess I know they'd be gone nearly a week Interviewer: How were the roads set up then when you were a boy? Was-was this- this highway here 025: No it was just a normal dirt road and it'd get so muddy you couldn't get over it and you went out through this hole there in the mountain and went out and come out way over on Pigeon Forge you cross two mountains to get outta here Interviewer: alright 025: this here road down here was just built bout 1920s it was finished up and {X} at first it just had a one way road down through there you had places you could pass I think that started about 1920 my granddaddy worked a lot down there. he's old a lot of it is free work and then a lot of it they'd give people contracts you know {X} find somebody else and the way they done that they took these old hammers you know and grip. somebody hold the {X} you know Interviewer: uh huh 025: you can see down there {X} on that road if you just know where to look Where they'd put them dynamite in there you know and you shoot it off even the steel part of the old rail holes Steel in through them rods Interviewer: Is that right? 025: That's the way they built the first Interviewer: Did they have a name for that place where they'd go through the mountains? was that called something? was that 025: you mean through the old road? Interviewer: yeah 025: Well it was just a stone mountain you went on through and then there a {X} go a little less the distance and then you went across the pine mountains and then come out over there try more of that apple tree {X} right below Pigeon hole where you come out Imagine the bridges weren't very good either Interviewer: you had to cross the creek used to when I wanted took long time to cross the river down there for years 025: Is that right and I think these {X} bridges you can tell all them old bridges they must have been built in the late teens right along {X} Interviewer: Now was Pigeon Forge called that because it-uh it got it's name from 025: I don't know I've heard, but I don't remember what people--Pigeon Forge got it's name Pigeon Forge when I first born out there we built our flower {X} Pigeon Forge was all on the other side of the river Now it's all along this side of the river next to the highway There wasn't nothing much on that side {X} business places much is all on the other side it's three stores over there right together on the other side of the river and that old water mill and they ground wheat flour {X} and people in here have to go to the flour mill you know to get their wheat Interviewer: The Uh- uh tell me now about your about the uh about your your uh father's side of the family I'd like let's go all the way back to 1790. So they came in 1790 just go ahead from there and tell me Do you know where they came from in 1794? 025: Well now let's see. I'd have to Interviewer: Just do the best you can recall 025: I don't I don't know whether they come from North Carolina North Carolina you see took in a big territory here back then. It even took in Lord's creek in the lower end of the county but the biggest part of these people come from North Carolina I don't know The Croustons come from North Carolina I've seen some more where they did come from and I just wouldn't be positive about Interviewer: Now Tell me Uh uh What you can recall about those your uh about the Croustons the Crouston family 025: Well now let me get something in here {NW} You can write a book on {X} Interviewer: I'm surprised no one has 025: {NW} I got this accidentally {X} Do you wanna read this? Interviewer: Well why don't you just look at it and tell me about it I'd rather you tell me about it 025: I'll just sort of tell you and not read it Interviewer: That's right sure and we can pick up any 025: {X} Let me see if I can find where they get that from It don't say where they come from but they come here and bought land and {X} and Cage Cole prior to 1800 and then they moved to some of them moved to Jaws County Tennessee and 18 and 7 and eventually returned to Sevier county and then it goes on tells this great big long story who their children was you know and so but it don't tell where they come from but a lot of them went one place and one the other now a week or so ago they was six Croustons come here some of them was from Arkansas all brothers and sisters {X} wife she wasn't a Crouston and some of them from Mississippi and some of them from Arkansas and they been here before I took them down here and showed them the old Crouston cemetery and they think we're kinfolks. I guess we are because we got the same names you know a lot of the first name Richardson Aaron from west and things like that {B} Interviewer: family name your first name 025: No it ain't a family name I don't know. my mother that said name and I don't know where she got it there's very few {B} in the country at that time that a lot of around here is named from me I know {X} was named from me I thought maybe that'd tell where they come from Interviewer: I see well maybe I can look at that after a while um were any of your uh- um- ancestors in the uh- the revolution or the civil war 025: Not as I know of Interviewer: I wonder did the people in this uh- part of the country uh- were they much involved in the civil war? 025: Well they have a lot of people in here that lived to be old that was in the civil war Now the revolutionary that's a {X} Interviewer: Yeah that would have been 025: they were {X} grandfather was in the living in the Civil War His grandfather on his mother's side and several people in here went to and later on {X} and a lot of them went {X} Went to Spanish then the world war come up and Earl's daddy was in World War I and uh then World War II, they just cleaned the country up {X} and then the Korean war my boy was in the Korean War Interviewer: How many children do you have? 025: I've got four three girls and a boy Interviewer: Are they all still around 025: My oldest girl, she lives in Seymour she married a fella there and she teaches schoolers teaching school blood in my family I reckon that don't come from the Crouston side she married there and he's got a farm he carries the {X} she teaches school at {X} high and I've got my next girl she never married she works at Gatlinburg all the time has for years she comes on Saturday stays 'til Monday and goes back and then I've got another girl that's married and lives over here she's got two children a boy he lives in Sevier and works in Knoxville he's got two children I've just got four grandchildren right up there his two children Interviewer: {X} Where was your wife born? Huh? Where was your wife born? She was born here in the valley And what was her family name? Lawsons her and Earl Lawson? Her and Earl's daddy was first cousins and brother's children Now Sometimes you call it where is is there a difference between Wears Cove and Wears valley? 025: just the same it started as Crouston's {X} the old record shows it was Crouston's {X} and then uh it goes on and an old man with the name of Ware he was willing when they come in here and begin to run the Indians out and I've heard my grandfather say that he went out here in the gap of the mountain and cut two saplings down {X} call it improvements and started up a Wears Cove then later on they sounded a little better to call it Ware's Valley Interviewer: I see 025: and it's people still called it Wares Cove or Wares Valley Interviewer: I see 025: and everything that happens down on Walden's creek or over this side of Townson is on the Wears edge it's the Wears Valley rule that it happens in Wears Valley It was two killings right close together down here on Walden's Street a few years ago and they had them all in Wears Valley it give Wears Valley a bad name it's on the Wears Valley Road that's called the Wears Valley Road from the time you leave 441 down there you get to Townson Interviewer: Now where does that road go? 025: Which road Interviewer: The- where does this road go from 441 to 025: It goes to 73 over here in {X} Townson and that Townson road comes from Maryland goes on around Belmont you know Interviewer: Sure 025: up to Gatlinburg and hits 441 Interviewer: Sure 025: No it don't it goes {X} Newport that 73 {X} Interviewer: Well the up yeah that's right if you're going through Sevierville that goes too 025: {X} 441 comes across the mountain {X} then 411 411 and 441 meets {X} Sevierville and 411 comes through Newport and that way is {X} that's 411 that goes across the mountain in the north {X} 441 that goes to North Carolina through Gatlinburg Interviewer: How long would it take you to drive from From Sevierville to North Carolina 025: I've been through {X} Captain, I don't know. It'd take you my boy's over there now {X} but we used to go to Florida once in a while and drive both ways I went the other way on the bus to Newport and I went this way in a car and went through Georgia this way. I mean down to Sevier county down in Chattanooga I don't know. I guess you I guess you can make it in a couple hours Interviewer: drive through the mountains don't you 025: that's slow. you'll get behind them old big trucks and they hold you back and then they start downhill, they go fast you know I'd say it'd take you couple hours to go to {X} {NW} a bit closer go down through the Cherokee country Interviewer: Yeah I've been over there, but I didn't know what the distance was from here Where Could you tell me a little bit about the Lawson family background? What- are they from 025: No. As far back as you can trace them My old daughter grandson I mean my granddaughter married a preacher from from uh- {X} {X} Chattanooga and he got a {X} The Croustons come-uh the Lawsons come here after the Croustons and I don't know where they come from He-he found out where they come from and {X} the biggest part of people come from North Carolina it's like I told you. North Carolina took in a great big territory it took in. I don't know it took in a big part of the {X} and all of Sevier County I guess you see North Carolina hits right over yonder {X} through Greenville and right around through there Smoky Mountain Interviewer: Sure How old's your wife? 025: She is let's see. She's four years younger than I am And I'm 76 She's 72 years old {X} next birthday Interviewer: And she's also Methodist? 025: yeah Interviewer: And what about her formal education? 025: Well she got just about what I got through this school up here down at the high school {X} Interviewer: She probably spent more time at the at the Wearwood School though 025: Yeah she did come done here there's another school up there in the valley and they was closer to it called the ten school but she don't know if she ever went there, but her sister and her little brother did I guess about all the schooling she ever went was Wearwood Interviewer: Now you say you were in You made a couple trips to Florida You ever been any place else outside of the county outside of the 025: No course you went through different states to get to Florida you know I had an aunt and uncle live down there I used to go down there once in a while and see them 'til they died Interviewer: Have you ever been North or West? 025: No I only ever been out {X} Interviewer: How far- How far west of Tennessee, beyond Knoxville have you been? Have you been to Chattanooga 025: No I've been to Knoxville go down there now for the doctor down there in the hospital when it was a hospital Interviewer: And then over in North Carolina Have you been much beyond Asheville 025: I went there {X} you have to go through Nashville most of the time to get to Florida Interviewer: No, no, no 025: Asheville, North Carolina Interviewer: Oh you go to oh I see that's how you go I-I was thinking you go through-go through I was thinking you're going the way I come up 025: {NW} You can go different ways but we got to going that way on account of dodging Atlanta it's needing to get through Atlanta you can go this way and you miss Atlanta Interviewer: Yeah. I see 025: We go lot of times and it take you hours to get through Atlanta, Georgia {X} and another thing they do down there you get down there and maybe in six months or a year you go back and they'd detour you and you get lost somehow Interviewer: yeah 025: we went down there one time and the boy he had a map didn't matter we just kept getting deeper and deeper and deeper down in the Interviewer: {NW} 025: nigger town and I got scared and I told him. I said "Let's get outta here and hug somebody." he said I'll find it directly {X} So we got up to a little store and I said you stop I'm going in there and ask this fella where 441 is when-- he said "right there see you're right on it and said right there is the state penitentiary {NW} that nigger downtown {X} Interviewer: I know just where you were that's uh on the uh East side of Atlanta but- and I- I'm just trying to get some idea about your um about your travel you haven't--you haven't done um you haven't been anywhere out You been up to Bristle 025: No I've been Greenville up to {X} Greenville Interviewer: Yeah Yeah 025: I've never been out of the state {X} Interviewer: You mean Greenville in uh-Tennessee 025: Yeah Greenville's up there in {X} Interviewer: Yeah I was saying yeah I've been up there I don't think you meant Grenville, South Carolina 025: Used to go up there {X} Interviewer: What was that-- when you were uh- that was your work? 025: Uh no that was {X} it'd be dependent where you thought you could get the most and who done your hauling some of the ones {X} some of them ones {X} get a little better pool {X} some go to--they got good market now Newport, but they didn't have a thing Interviewer: What do you mean a better pool? Just-What does that mean? 025: sometimes the buyer the man that buys the tobacco {X} they give you a little better deal treat you a little better get a little more out of your {X} Interviewer: I see 025: you know back them days people go a long way for a few dollars Interviewer: {NW} sure 025: {X} you know the warehouse man would give them a kick you know {X} and they'd persuade you to go of course they'd get paid both ways we had to pay them and then the warehouse would pay them {X} {X} double pay Interviewer: {NW} 025: {X} {X} what they take out of it you know you've got five hundred dollars worth of tobacco, they'll take fifty dollars out of it {X} the insurance {X} they tell me that these fellas are {X} they pay it and then we pay it get double pay Interviewer: how did you uh um handle that stuff when you're taking a considerable distance like that did you have a what did you pack it in? 025: {X} big baskets at the warehouse they'd furnish it in the baskets you know {X} then when you got ready to take it all you had to do was to load her up Interviewer: I see 025: each grade was on a big basket you could put two, three hundred pounds on that basket Interviewer: The baskets these baskets were at the warehouse 025: They belong to the warehouse they're responsible for the man that got them for you the man that was holding your tobacco was bringing you the bush Interviewer: you didn't do the {X} When you were doing the hauling you never did the hauling yourself 025: {NS} Interviewer: Did any partners ever do that at all 025: Oh yeah A lot of them did {X} {X} didn't have too much you know {X} now then they can take in baskets you know and then when you get there they got them high lifts you know and then you scoot them under there {X} on scales hanger and it used to be then back before they got to furnishing the baskets people had {X} had just taken put each crate you know and {X} take a tobacco sticker and put two on the top and two on the bottom and make them {X} bout like hay bale is on there a little longer turn your leave in and your head {X} Interviewer: The uh the the head is what part of the leaf is the head? 025: {X} you know and the upper for the leaf is the the end of the leaf {X} Interviewer: but you talk about it as the butt or the head? 025: Yeah Interviewer: I see and then what's a tobacco stick? 025: huh? Interviewer: a tobacco stick? 025: a tobacco stick is what you stick the tobacco on you know Interviewer: Oh it's tied to 025: tobacco sticks are sharpened at each end and you go {X} and stick them in the ground {X} {X} then you haul it in hang it up then sticks are about four inch four feet then you hang them about four five inches apart six further apart the better better ventilation you can get Interviewer: Do you have any of those around here tobacco sticks? 025: Yeah Interviewer: I'd like to see one before I leave 025: have to go out to barn Interviewer: if you have enough time after a while I'd like to see one of them not really uh not quite clear in my mind {X} how old is this house? 025: This house was built in 1872 it's a hundred and one years old Interviewer: Is that right? would you uh make a I'd like to make a diagram of the house and get the names of the rooms what you call the rooms and also I want and then I want to go back from there to the house that well course this is the only house you've ever lived in 025: Well I my furniture I don't know where I was born here I guess I was born and my dad had a house down yonder {X} Interviewer: Is that a log house? 025: No it was a framed house this house was built by my grandpa {X} Interviewer: uh-huh {NS} Well could you make a a diagram 025: I'd have to get out here and look Interviewer: I know all I want All I want to know is what 025: this way is forty feet this ways you see this {X} first built this one and then built that one out yonder there later this is the main house that was built Interviewer: Okay so the front of the house is facing West that's right and then what do you call this room we're in right here? 025: well that's your living room Interviewer: do it ever call it anything else? 025: No Interviewer: Alright and is that just 025: that's a bedroom and there's another big room bout the same size of this one {X} Interviewer: and what's that called? Is that a 025: {X} don't even sleep in there used to {X} bedroom, but now there's no beds in there got a organ two organs in there and a piano {X} Interviewer: What do you call that room? 025: I just I don't know Don't never had any particular name for it Interviewer: well if you were gonna tell somebody to get something out of that room how would you 025: we'd call it the back room I would just call it the back room {X} Interviewer: Okay and then what's back behind the 025: Now that's a hallway out there back then that was a see the little room on each end? we took this one right here for a bathroom back on the other end there is a {X} Interviewer: Okay now that goes back pretty far So you practically have another whole house back there 025: {X} built that you know kitchen and a dining room and then there's a {X} screened in porch on each side of Interviewer: How about on the sides of the on the is that on the north and south sides of the house? 025: that'd be on the north northeast and southeast side north southeast that a way northeast this way {X} be it southeast or northeast or Interviewer: And uh how bout the um so behind the hall then is a there is a you say a kitchen 025: kitchen and a dining room Interviewer: And which is on the um which comes-which is on this side the kitchen or the dining room? 025: {X} Interviewer: {NW} 025: When you got something to hide Interviewer: Well I don't want to be nosy but I just wanted to get a 025: {X} clothes that's been laid back and outgrowed we don't never throw nothing much away here Interviewer: what do you call that room where you put those things 025: just call it that little room up there on end the head of the stairs Interviewer: Is there a bathroom upstairs? 025: No Interviewer: just three 025: bathrooms down here ain't nobody here, but me and her we don't need but one bathroom Interviewer: so there really are three bedrooms upstairs 025: Yeah there's three up there Interviewer: Okay there isn't a porch up there though 025: No Auxiliary: three bedrooms and a little utility room Interviewer: I just wonder did you ever call that a plunder room? Did you ever use that expression? you ever use that expression? 025: I guess so I don't know Auxiliary: {X} 025: You can You can give me a little information {X} so he can tell you as much Interviewer: {X} I'm glad to talk to you but I 025: {X} you got on your Auxiliary: {X} and let him talk to you Interviewer: I am glad that both okay okay 025: {X} Auxiliary: {X} Interviewer: What uh Uh uh Now {NW} 025: {X} Interviewer: okay 025: Now we have the the old {X} I mean everything in line Interviewer: uh-huh 025: {X} Interviewer: Heating In this uh- The kind of heating you had in here originally when the house was first built 025: a big fireplace and three of them one in the kitchen, one in yonder, and one here these two still here with one we got electricity and had to put in our cabinets and things we that old chimney was getting bad and dangerous and we just took it out get it out of the way it took up a lot of room until we could put in cabinets and things like that they don't use {X} the fireplace now I use this a lot the stove and electric heater Interviewer: Okay mm-hmm. Now the um uh what about this place that extends out here in the front I don't see one here but-there probably is one made of brick? 025: cement Interviewer: Yeah 025: Used to be brick and then Interviewer: uh-huh 025: lay it on Interviewer: Or stone 025: made it {X} concrete Interviewer: {X} 025: cement Interviewer: What was that called? 025: hard Interviewer: And then uh {X} In the um Uh What's the uh the fuel in this stove Is this- 025: {D: Coal} coal oil Interviewer: and then-but what 025: #1 Kerosene # Interviewer: #2 {X} # and in the fire place you 025: we used to use wood in that you know Interviewer: Ok Um What um- What kept the wood in place in this What'd you call those things? 025: {X} Interviewer: Ok and then the uh Uh What did you call a water uh you know the kind of a large uh piece of wood used? 025: Back stick the big one took the back stick behind It would last maybe a day and a night if it's hickory or {NS: Knocking} say I- I mean hickory or Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Sycamore or something like that you know Black gum You'd always try to get something like that you know for backsticks the longer they last, the better your fire'll last you know {X} Interviewer: and how'd you get the fire started? 025: {X} grab some pine get your little kindling set that pinecorn and it won't be long 'til you have a fire always have a little dry wood to take off with you Interviewer: And what did you- 025: got it started while you can just burn anything Interviewer: Did you call that pine anything else? 025: They're just rich you know rich pine come out of the heart of the pine tree or something Some pines had a lot of rich in them you know and some didn't Interviewer: Did you ever call that lighter around here? 025: Call it what? Interviewer: lighter 025: Uh-uh Interviewer: lighted 025: #1 No # Interviewer: #2 That's not. okay # 025: get some of that just plenty of pine in them days you know Interviewer: But you call that stuff in the rich 025: Yeah Interviewer: The rich was that- 025: {X} maybe a tree'd be against the skin or something or other {X} affected and that'd be pine I don't know and then you'd just a lotta times you get hearts you know {X} pine you take the sills in this house I had to take the front one out years ago you know and put a block foundation under the {X} and it's a twelve to twelve huge sill fourty feet long and I've got some of it out there in the wood shed yet it's dry you know and it's hard stuff take a great big pine and tear it down to the hearts you know hearts {X} {X} but you get to the heart and you stay there {X} and under this house is a original sills Interviewer: The um Uh That um That Up where those pictures are on the fire over the fire place what's that 025: Well we used to call it the fireboard but now they usually call them the mantels {NW} Interviewer: Did they ever call that in the old house Where your- your father's house um where you-the house you born did they ever call the living room anything else? 025: No, not that I remember of it had three rooms there Interviewer: have you ever heard that called the big house? that one room the room they lived in 025: No I don't know #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 That's not # How was that house layed out Do you remember that? 025: It was layed out too {X} back there we had the kitchen and the dining room back there and two bedrooms in here and a double park place you see there'd be fireplaces in the center houses then no one used two rooms fireplace on each side {X} and that's what that had You'll find plenty of them in the {X} there's one right across the creek over here Interviewer: #1 People them days all built around the same style # 025: #2 Now # you ever go to the country you can tell an old house Interviewer: hmm 025: it's two stories they quit building two story houses anymore for living houses you know anything that's up two stories {X} business place where they can have offices {X} you never see a new house built anymore two stories them days they all of them were {X} they all had two stories Interviewer: Now the stuff you clean out of a fire you have to clean out of a fireplace 025: ashes you'd have to clean them out everyday or two wood it'd make a lot of ashes Interviewer: What about the stuff out of the-that the black stuff that you 025: that's soot Interviewer: Yeah. What kind of furniture did you have in the house when you were a boy say in the living room 025: about the same we got now just about the same we got now we didn't have no radios then no television nothing like that {X} couches nowadays Interviewer: {X} 025: when I was a boy {X} There used to be one here that had what they call a little {X} for the children everybody raised big families {X} {X} they'd be higher than an ordinary bed now and they'd let them pull them out {X} they call them out from under them and let the children sleep in them and then the next morning wake them back up and scoot them back onto the bed Interviewer: I see 025: I seen them there used to be one here {X} Interviewer: You call that a couch you ever call that anything else? 025: Ahh some people call them the sofas {X} couch Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 # #1 couch # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Any difference between the name? 025: I don't reckon. I- Interviewer: And what about the uh, now these {X} What I'm sitting in what would you call that? 025: Rocking chair Interviewer: Ok Were there any other kinds of 025: Well that old straightback chairs you know then a little chair we used to have {X} got a high chair out there and had uh my uncle lived here {X} my uncle lived here he had some children was raised up together there's an old man over there there in the valley {X} highchair out there and here's mine and then uh my cousin she's dead now she had one {X} it's still on that chair where I cut my {X} my chair so we can tell them apart Interviewer: Is that right? What was the man's name who made those those chairs 025: Muellen Hodge I don't know how you spell Muellen but Hodge Interviewer: uh-huh 025: he got a girl she's old as my wife and her and my daughters rented a house up there they lived together you know up there in Gatlinsburg and she's older than my wife Interviewer: I see 025: My wife says she knows used to know 'em They live here in the valley Interviewer: I see Now What uh in the bedroom what kind of of um furniture uh do you have for keeping your clothes? 025: Well that'd be a little closet somewhere hang them in you know Interviewer: Now closet would be built in wouldn't it? 025: well there's one in yonder in that back room Interviewer: What do you call those moveable things? something it's kind of like a closet except it can be moved around and you can put it on different walls 025: dresser something like that you know {X} that's over a hundred year old Interviewer: Now a dresser would have um 025: a glass in- {X} #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Would a Would a taller one if it didn't have a have a glass over it still be called a dresser? 025: Now I want to show you something in here We had two of them Interviewer: okay 025: Maybe I was wrong{NS: rustling} Now this was covered {C: distant speech} these covered {C: distant speech} Now see you don't know much about these {X} Interviewer: {X} 025: {X} {C: distant} see that's under the stairway there {X} {NS} {X} Interviewer: But that uh the kind of a of a sor- sort of sort of like a closet that I was thinking about was um um one that um uh that um that you can move around from room to room or you can move from wall to wall has two big doors on it um sometimes they're called closets sometimes they're called wardrobes 025: Well I don't know I don't know what you're talking about I don't know if we ever had any of them to have to move around Interviewer: You didn't have anything you called a wardrobe? 025: {X} Interviewer: But all of these things we're talking about these tables and chairs and so forth all of these are different kinds of 025: now right there is a chair that I had made and it's {D: bought him the shucks} I don't guess you've ever seen a chair like that they make them up there in Gatlinsburg and I got a fellow that saw the cherry and added sod here on the place in his vineyard for years and I took it to Gatlinsburg and he made me a chair and I furnished him the shucks and they take them chairs and make {X} and that'll last forever and ever and there's another one that you're sitting in nearly like it but that's a bullet chair but that I had it made out of {X} Interviewer: Is that right? 025: the shucks furnishing the shucks give him eighteen dollars and {X} Interviewer: Is that right? that's a magnificient chair for eight- at any price, but eighteen dollars is unbelievable that's uh 025: we've got a lot of old things There's clocks been here ever since I can remember Interviewer: uh-huh 025: and it's got a rattlesnake rattlers sitting there my grandpa and a fellow boy used to stay with us killed on this big mountain it's in the park now and there's thirteen rattlers in a button right above that pendulum there Interviewer: {X} 025: Can you see 'em? Interviewer: Hanging across the-yeah 025: They're tied right above {X} {X} How many miles that's traveled Interviewer: {NW} right uh that uh a lot more miles than the rattlesnake 025: {X} seventy years I guess that clock's at least seventy year old it go a long, long way right here is a chair that's that old {X} best sitting chair ever I sit in I don't let nobody have it Interviewer: {NW} 025: {X} Interviewer: Were these made by um um Who used to make this? 025: I don't know who made these {X} he made this one I don't know he would {X} but now all these other chairs {X} I guess that old man Hodge {X} made the chair I guess he made them I know made part of them Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and old rocking chairs Interviewer: Did he make anything other than chairs? 025: I don't remember anything {X} I guess he made other things you know like candles ax handles {X} he made ax handles hammer handles anything like that in the wood line Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and people had lots of uses for them things Interviewer: Now What uh- up above the the second floor do you have any is there a space up above there? 025: Yeah there's a garrett up there but there's nothing in it {X} seal it all {X} a seal with eighteen inch {X} Interviewer: uh-huh 025: eighteen inches Interviewer: Is that right? 025: You see there this was all handmade stuff you see them days they just took a blank whatever it was and hand dressed it you call them {X} look at it ain't none of them same {X} Interviewer: {X} 025: just whatever the {X} Interviewer: They call them the {X} 025: {X} Interviewer: {NW} 025: that's all you could call them {X} Interviewer: {NW} 025: {X} Interviewer: Sure that's fun you had to really uh uh estimate those 025: These doors now, when- when they made these houses they just {X} maybe one them make one door and one another {X} they ain't made these doors and windows the same Interviewer: uh-huh 025: they're not gonna have a standard Interviewer: uh-huh 025: you have to have windows made you have to have the doors made Interviewer: uh-huh 025: they're not standard anymore Interviewer: I see 025: {X} one time {X} up in the barn down there you know six for sixes six foot long {X} and these big seals down here it's twelve to twelve huge seals fifty feet long and I asked and I said {X} He said there's men that didn't do nothing on the {X} and they'd go to the woods and go down to the creek {X} everybody have the {X} said one yolk couldn't pull them in said another one would two three of them would and then said when they started to build the barn or the house she said the men and the women of the community come and the women brung stuff to eat and helped cook and feed them and the men worked and so it didn't cost nobody nothing and said when this barn was built the house was built so the other fella had one waiting on him so they just went around like that {X} {NS} Now you can't hire nobody let alone get somebody to come {X} Interviewer: Sure that's right Now you mentioned Uh I don't think I want to get the get that again what you called that that uh piece you were showing me in there 025: That what? Interviewer: That-That that piece in the other room that you were showing me with the drawers in it and the glass 025: {X} Interviewer: Yeah 025: What you're talking about? Interviewer: Right right and that's uh was that ever called a kitchen cupboard or was it just {X} 025: I don't know {X} Auxiliary: Now that's a kitchen corner cupboard 025: Huh? Auxiliary: That's a kitchen corner cupboard 025: Well Interviewer: Ok 025: The other one wasn't in the kitchen there's a hall used to be there then run the stairs up this way it was so high it was seven foot high you couldn't get it {X} Interviewer: Now did uh when you um Uh did you have-I don't know if you had one or not do you have a little room off the kitchen where you might store canned goods? 025: We've got a little house where we used to call it the smokehouse and they would keep the meat in it and the other one cans you know Interviewer: uh-huh 025: it's got shelves in it and concrete floors lined and everything we can keep our cans in there {X} and the other one we used to kill a lot of hogs {X} box in there it's about I guess twelve feet long and about four feet wide and it had a cover over it and we'd put our meat in there and salt it down Interviewer: uh-huh 025: We killed a lot of hogs back then Interviewer: uh-huh 025: We took 'em that's what people lived on bread and meat Interviewer: Did did you have anything do you have a room that's um um now you mentioned smokehouse but I wonder if you had a little kind of room right off the kitchen now you had that 025: They used to be one there but it was tore down Interviewer: what was it called? Well it {NW} meal in you know {X} one side to put meal in the other one flour and things like that the other end of it was about the same size as bedroom and boys would stay here you know work first and sleep {X} Auxiliary: used to call it a meal room had meal and flour 025: had meal and flour and #1 an old time coffee mill # Auxiliary: #2 {X} # 025: {X} coffee already ground one of them boys would pop popcorn you know and take it in there and run it through that old {X} coffee mill you know {X} Interviewer: {NW} Is that right? 025: {X} Auxiliary: Why his granddad would too couldn't chew it 025: {NW} wasn't good for people that didn't have good teeth Interviewer: Now the what'd your wife call it now the Auxiliary: meal room 025: #1 meal room # Auxiliary: #2 meal room # Interviewer: Did you ever I was wondering about hearing it called a pantry 025: Oh we had one of them {X} Was it here when you come here? Auxiliary: no 025: It had two great big ol' things up here you know and one of them had flour and the other one meal it had a handle down here and you could sit in there and sift it Auxiliary: #1 My sister had one but {X} # 025: #2 {X} # {X} I guess it just rusted {X} because I remember that {X} they called it a pantry and it had a coffee mill {X} Auxiliary: {X} 025: yeah Interviewer: {X} 025: but it sat upon something and these things was round {X} and you could pour flour in one meal in the other {X} you can sift it you know everybody used to have to sift their meal to get the I mean their meal {X} flour to get the husks you know round, long, little {X} it'd be a lot of husk go in that meal you know Interviewer: Now was um um the um Now sweep to sweep the floor how'd they used to sweep the floor? 025: brooms homemade brooms there's some of them here you ever seen one? Interviewer: Did you make them? What I'm interested in hearing is what you what you what you made the uh did you make the stuff that you made the broom with? 025: {X} broom corn broom corn cut it keep it {X} don't use them anymore {X} we've got some of them old homemade brooms Interviewer: Right. 025: and then when that broom corn dried out you know you could hang it up in a barn somewhere {X} and you get your round stick {X} just go round and round {X} made many a broom that way {X} Interviewer: Now on the outside of a of this frame on the framehouse what do you call those overlapping boards? 025: I just don't know exactly Interviewer: Well now for a frame house I don't think I don't know if you call them a {X} but they used to call they used to use the expression a lot when they would when they would put a they would put these boards on a on a log house over the logs these overlapping 025: {X} I guess what you're told weatherboarding Interviewer: Yeah you wouldn't call that a on your house 025: oh this stuff out here is weatherboarding and this other stuff you know a lot of these houses have never been had weatherboarding {NS} Take the planks you know {X} name 'em from the top to the bottom and then uh put strips down over the cracks a lot of houses is like that you know and then put some kind of paper building paper something on the inside to keep the wind out there isn't that many of them left around here now you might find some somewhere {X} Interviewer: How about the top of the house? um the very outside 025: well that's covered with metal sheet iron Interviewer: was it always that way? 025: {NS} {X} Interviewer: I can't sorry 025: {X} {X} Interviewer: How about on the older houses? 025: just cover the floors Interviewer: uh 025: and I think this house was covered with tin when it was first built cause it stayed on there I think about nineteen and thirty {X} they had it covered it was my granddaddy get up there you know and take some kind of cold, hard paint and painted every year It lasted after a long, long time Interviewer: did that did they blow off a lot in the 025: we have had it blow off a time or two or part of it you know around the ceiling overhead bore planks down there where there was fastened to {X} {NS} Interviewer: but it comes over the mountains 025: well it just comes any direction only it don't come so bad from the North but East {X} the South wind's worse than the West wind we had never had nothing {X} like cyclones this last winter I had a side of wind it blew the roofs off of several barns Interviewer: Now do you have anything around the edge of the of the of the roof to catch uh um catch the water? 025: gutters Interviewer: and then uh are they built in or are they 025: they just hung out Interviewer: I see and then and then there's a what do you call the thing that the water comes down 025: spouts down spouts Interviewer: spouts or down spouts Now you mentioned the smokehouse and you mentioned this house what other out buildings did you do you have on the farm now 025: Oh chicken houses {X} and little things like that and down yonder about turnover you got the water mill down there it's a two story building had a water mill down there ground corn for people all over this country {X} Interviewer: Now before you had indoor plumbing uh what'd you call that building 025: well you mean the little outhouse Interviewer: #1 yeah # 025: #2 where you went to # well they, some of them call them privies and some would call them outhouses things like that we still got the old one down there we got before we got electricity in all the bathrooms Still one sitting down there, the W-P-A Interviewer: uh-huh 025: come around and made 'em during World War two Interviewer: Now what kind of animals do you have on the farm? 025: I don't keep nothing now with cattle used to keep cattle, horses, mules and everything sheep everything goats had a little of everything Interviewer: When you talked about uh sheep you had you raised sheep 025: Yeah we'd run them on that big mountain you know Interviewer: uh-huh 025: we'd keep seventy five to a hundred head of sheep Interviewer: Is that right? 025: {X} on that big mountain and they'd come from the other side Gatlinsburg and see that big mountain it's between us and Gatlinsburg. People that herd the cattle take the cattle up there you know you know that mountain there's placed on the Nor- on the side next to Gatlinsburg called Norton that's fine range back in there my granddaddy look at it {X} and he'd get up and go over there and get back home in time for breakfast {X} look about him and called them they know just about where to find their cattle you know and they had marks that marked them in the ear so everybody could tell whose cattle was whose Interviewer: uh-huh 025: it's hard to tell much about cattle {X} and my granddaddy's mark was called {X} just cut a little something like he could course he had an eye fixed {X} but like taking something like about a fourty four or {X} cut a half half moon out there in each ear {X} everybody knows they're they're marked Interviewer: what'd you call that mark of his? 025: they called him my that was the underbit Interviewer: the underbit? 025: underbit where they cut them some of them would split their ear Interviewer: uh-huh 025: and some of them would take them out of the top of their ear everybody had to have a different mark you know they couldn't all have the same but my grandaddy's mark was two one in each ear underbit well the next man might have two underbits in one ear instead of one maybe in one of them three Interviewer: I see 025: And maybe some of them in the top of the ear and some of them maybe at the end of the ear cut off and some of them cut the ear off and called it a {X} you split the ear down an inch or two you know They'll never grow back up Interviewer: uh-huh, I see 025: everybody had their own bit Interviewer: uh-huh 025: got their own mark Interviewer: Now the uh the cattle um um what kin- uh the uh what kinds of cattle did you raise? 025: Any kind any kind you can get {X} most of them are part {X} people turned the cattle out altogether you didn't know what you had Interviewer: How long ago did you- did you keep the cattle? did you ever get tired of just having one? 025: No we've still got cattle I've always had cattle all my life them days we'd have more than we do now people-I could remember back in the days when there wasn't no fences everybody turned their {X} people kept the fences up you know there wasn't no open fields people turned their cattle out and they roamed one end of this {X} to the other them that didn't take them out and some people would have to keep work cattles steers and the milk cows you know Interviewer: uh-huh 025: they'd keep them here and they'd just turn them out {X} try to keep their milk cows and their steers pretty close to home but their other {X} they didn't have no law then #1 Now the uh- # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: {X} old crooked rail rails {X} Interviewer: Did you always just call them rail fences 025: {X} Interviewer: you just called them- did you- 025: crooked rail fences you know Interviewer: What'd you call that first one you put down? 025: oh that was the bott- bottom rail Guess they would just call it the bottom rail {X} and bury it down there in that ground last there for years and years {X} Interviewer: Ever call that the worm? 025: Yeah might be a worm {X} Auxiliary: #1 you've seen them ain't you # Interviewer: #2 Now you mentioned # Yeah sure 025: used to be some round here {X} Interviewer: I've seen some you know but they-they differ from 025: What you've seen is something that's put up for show I don't guess you ever seen a regular old rail out here they've got a rail fence over here but it's a new rail made out of {X} out here in Pidgeon Forge there was one right along up through there Interviewer: #1 they was looking # 025: #2 mm-hmm # some of that just for show {X} Interviewer: and the chestnut tree is all 025: Yeah the chestnut tree is all {X} there used to be a side of chestnut trees after {X} Interviewer: where did the chestnut trees go? you remember? you remember when the chestnut when they had that- chestnut tree 025: they went back I guess near the teens when I was a boy my grandaddy owned eight hundred acres of land on the side of that mountain {X} he had a big chestnut orchard up there an old big chestnut trees he grew you know be several feet around and we'd go up there the Fall and pick up chestnuts not everybody else go and pick up chestnuts people them days their children would pick up chestnuts and all the stores would buy 'em they'd buy their shoes Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: winter clothes with them chestnuts and the merchants would buy 'em and take 'em and trade you know and then they'd hold 'em Knoxville or something Interviewer: I see Now you mentioned uh uh you mentioned steers uh what what were you talking about cattle there? Alright. 025: Steers is you know cattles tongues and heffers and females I only had a a bull that's {X} well a steer is a bull {X} that's been castrated you know and steers Interviewer: I see I wondered if you sometimes they used before before they used horses so much uh they uh for hauling things and for plowing as a matter of fact do you remember 025: well as far back as I remember they've had cattle and horses too Interviewer: yeah didn't they use oxen here uh before World War I? #1 oxen? # 025: #2 well I guess they played out # {X} Interviewer: Isn't that what drew 025: back when I was a boy though before World War one, I was just barely missed that well I was old enough to go to the army but they didn't take me {X} Interviewer: What did you have what uh what did you have what 025: I had pneumonia fever you know {X} they turned me down didn't take me had a bad lung but people had them {X} some a lot of people you know {X} put collar on them plow when a fella used to live here close to us {X} {X} like a horse you know plow on state ground they could stand up to a horse but you know a mule can stand up to a horse can't stand up and them yolks of cattle it had some awfully good cattle they'd log with 'em farm with 'em {X} I've seen plowing ones big plow turning plow Interviewer: Those weren't the same kind of animals though as milk cows I mean they were- 025: Cattle's all the same breed milk cows is cows {X} and give milk and steers you make beef out of them and sell 'em {X} Interviewer: They weren't different like oxen. I mean you wouldn't 025: They're just still the same kind of cattle we got now only difference is {X} are better bred cattle now you know we got better bulls and better bred cattle. These are just {X} people's cattle run out and they might have a big cow {X} well that don't happen anymore because peoples keeps their own cattle and their own bull {X} some people's got black anguses and somes got white faces and somes got derms some one kind and some another but everybody keeps their cattle in their own fields now keeps their own bull in their keep a good grade of cattle Interviewer: I see 025: them days you'd just have anything you didn't know what your cows gonna have {X} Interviewer: especially when you have the open range now what are the how often what did they did they uh did they stop the open range 025: well that was back when I was just a boy my granddaddy he just took fit about it you know {X} I's just a boy Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: I don't know I guess that was back in the early nineteen hund- I mean let's see. I was born eighteen ninety seven I'd say it happened about nineteen ten in the low in the low teens somewhere around there Interviewer: Now do you remember uh that the time when men didn't like to use the word bull in the presence of women 025: oh yeah yeah but now they don't pay no attention Interviewer: what did they used to call 'em instead of 025: they just call them a bull or he-male, female, he-male female he-male Interviewer: females and he-males? 025: female Interviewer: and he-males? 025: he-males Interviewer: that's good do they do the same thing with horses? what do they call a male horse? 025: well a horse is just like cattle you know now there's keep horse for breeding purposes called them stud horse and then ordinary horse was just a break horse or saddle horse or whatever you want to get him for Interviewer: and what if the female was 025: {X} some of them would never breed you know {X} Interviewer: what'd they call a a female? 025: Mare Interviewer: Now did they have a term that they used instead of instead of saying stud in the presence of women 025: {X} they still in the farm papers you know {X} {X} Now Jack you can take a jack or you got your mules you'd take a jack and breed a mare to 'em and you got a mule you see and there was jennies that belonged to the jacks you could take a jenny and breed her to a horse breeds you a mule just vice versa there just crossbreed Interviewer: the jacks and jennies though are the 025: they're the same kind of the same tribe you know Interviewer: they're smaller weren't they 025: yeah they're smaller Interviewer: smaller a lot smaller than mules what is a the male what'd you call the male sheep? 025: buck Interviewer: {X} 025: ram Interviewer: uh-huh 025: buck or ram Interviewer: either one and the female 025: {X} Interviewer: and the you said you'd shear them how much did you shear them in the spring 025: shear them twice a year sometimes they'd use that {X} you know that was a whole lot easier work than the threads you know {X} make-that's something like that right there that's a homemade thing that's over a hundred years old on that couch that's what they'd weave them into Interviewer: that's made of 025: yeah and blankets and {X} that's a homemade that come from my great great grandmother I had to take care of it they'd have big looms you know there used to be one here Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: weaved them on them looms by hand Interviewer: How did they process that now let's take it from the from a going from do you remember from when they from the time you'd shear it until you'd get something like that 025: #1 No,no, no # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: They had a thing to do it when I was {X} they kept a wool and wash it and dry it see sheep's a greasy thing get all that grease out of there {X} and then they'd take cards just things you know with teeth in them about six or eight inches long and about four inches wide with a handle on them {X} put them in clips you know and then there's the one {X} then they had a spinning wheel great big- you've seen that one {X} and they'd spin that wool into yarn Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and they'd make things like that out of it knit socks and whatnot you know make underwear Interviewer: #1 anything {X} # 025: #2 I see # I don't remember seeing much of that done I've seen that wool carded and made into {X} they were all men in the winter time where they all knit socks you know they were about two or three times thicker than anything you can buy now they didn't have no such things as overshoes or boots. I mean they just had boots, but there wasn't nothing like {X} I don't know how people Interviewer: What'd they used to call the old kind of shoes that men used to wear 025: {X} the first ones I ever knew but they're just old hard shoes {D: I wore them} they had a copper thing right across the toe of 'em {X} {X} I reckon people kick so much Interviewer: {NW} you mentioned hog {NS} could you tell me a little about the hog the hog business? 025: Well people just raised their hogs you know and back in the chestnut and acreing time they'd fatten them up there on that mountain they'd mark them too you know and sometimes you'd get them and sometimes you wouldn't get them back and they'd let 'em fatten maybe they'd bring them in {X} before they killed them feed 'em on corn a while well then when that played over people would just build {X} or lots {X} and tucked the hogs in them and fatten them and then kill them I used to fatten a lot of hogs who ate a lof of corn fatten a lot of hogs and sell them to Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: supermarkets or take them to {X} that's {X} we don't even like killing hogs anymore don't raise any more right now it's {X} can't get no lot to raise your grain on it the last few years we've raised corn, wheat and oats and all these things you know {X} ain't very much {X} I don't know everybody used to raise wheat I don't know if a bit of wheat was raised in this community this year Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Everybody used to have a cane patch and they'd make their molasses you know for their {X} keep bees to make their honey people lived good back in the old days they lived good Interviewer: What-when you talk about raising wheat do you how is that harvested 025: Well wheat was sowed you know with a drill {X} or by hand anyway to get it in the ground then people back in the old days they had to cradle that Did you ever see a cradle? Interviewer: Is that I think I 025: got a big blade on 'em and so many fingers {X} {NS} {X} Did I hurt it? Interviewer: Let me see I'll just check {NW} 025: Well I never know Interviewer: No that's okay {X} that's a curious thing you can't expect a to deal with something like that Now when they um out in the field how did they um uh um did they ever when they were harvesting before they got to thrashing it didn't they tie it up and 025: Well I never did see that happen But I heard my grandpa talk about it they'd have some kind of a floored thing and they had a horses and they'd tie 'em {X} take them around and around and around {X} {X} pick up the wheat and they'd have a windmill {X} Interviewer: uh-huh 025: and they'd run it through that and blow the separate the trash from the wheat Interviewer: uh-huh 025: and they got the thrashing machine {X} ain't no thrashing machines in 'em all Interviewer: Sure 025: {X} Interviewer: But I meant the kind of bundles or something 025: Well they had to make them up into big bundles you know and they had to take part the wheat take out a handful of that wheat Interviewer: #1 Right # 025: #2 and that # man could tie that before you can say {X} {X} and they'd build two or three cellars come behind them shock it Interviewer: Yeah 025: they'd shock it up about eight, ten or twelve of them bunchers and they'd take two and lay on top they'd take them and break them and two in the middle them things would turn water that way Interviewer: Yeah, what'd you did you have a name for that for the one you put over the top? 025: I'd call that I just I forget what they call that it had a name but we just put that on break it down you know and lay 'em crossways Interviewer: did you would you call it a cap? 025: cap or something like that {X} Interviewer: you ever heard it called a rudder? I heard that up in Solomon county How many-now these little bunches you were speaking of did you call those sheaves or #1 or just bunches or bundles # 025: #2 just call 'em # bundles Interviewer: bundles 025: bundles #1 is what I was hearing # Interviewer: #2 {X} # and if um how um how much of this would you say it varies terrifically I know but how much wheat could you get to an acre 025: well it depends it's lots of people that get forty fifty bushel you do well a lot of times if you average ten bushel to the acre my brother in law and my neighbor over here are on a thrashing machine they'd go out here this side of Sevier {X} and all that farm country and thrash and the Birchfields up there on some on that Newport road owned a lot of land there and I heared my brother in law {X} a lot of that now {X} said they'd set it down and they'd go in there and haul it to it then they'd thrashed a hundred acres up there Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: just made about ten bushel to the acre Interviewer: #1 something like that # 025: #2 mm-hmm # that's a whole lot of wheat out of hundred acre Interviewer: When you're getting land ready to they start out let's say it's just a it's completely it's full of trees and everything else you have to do to get a field ready to cultivate 025: Well {X} timber Interviewer: Yeah 025: Well they just go in there and saw those trees off as short as they can get them low as they can get 'em and uh sometimes they begin to get dynamite they would blow them stumps out {X} dig 'em on out Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: let 'em get part of the rock and take big priers and pries them out or hook a team to 'em and pull them ou finally get them cleaned up Interviewer: How'd they get them out when you say they pulled them out did they the team 025: they would put a chain around 'em you know dig around them but you take a great big tree sometimes you couldn't do that a lot of times they just let them rot out and take them out in pieces work around them Interviewer: do they drag them out? 025: get them out {X} Interviewer: If you were taking a {X} see a difference between between just cutting it down flat or taking-getting everything out 025: Well back when people going to clear land farmers they'd take everything out Interviewer: Right 025: then the people that's keeping it for timber would go cut the big stuff out and take care of the younger stuff here Interviewer: I was wondering if you had a different name for taking out you get down there and take out all the shrubs and all the 025: they just call it clearing everything Interviewer: didn't use the word grubbing 025: {X} but not what grubbing meant small stuff where you could take a {X} Interviewer: Oh 025: dig it out Interviewer: #1 I see, I see # 025: #2 small stuff, you # couldn't dig them big stumps Interviewer: #1 I still got some daggers too # 025: #2 {X} # {X} there that never has been cut Interviewer: #1 somebody # 025: #2 uh-huh # cut over, it's never been cleared I've got some over on that hill that's never been cleared Interviewer: Right 025: that kind of land now is worth more than land farming land {X} I'd be afraid to ask anybody {X} Interviewer: uh-huh 025: I'd be afraid to cross anybody well they'll give you a whole lot more for land if it's got some trees on it {X} Interviewer: Sure well they uh but I when you uh when you you've got cultivate it you take a when you start to cultivate it 025: Well they'd just plow it with anything they could you know they didn't have one big long plow with one thing {X} they call them now put 'em on a tractor and call 'em subsolvers, we called 'em subsolvers then Interviewer: mm-hmm 025: but it just one big foot you know and they'd just have to go with that and then later on after they got a little further they can take this plow with two feet on it you know cultivate it and most of the people then have these great big old {X} and three-cornered you know and big long square stalks about that {X} and later on they got the section hire {X} for level land {X} Interviewer: do you ever have the kind that has the spring kind of an arrow with the spring tooth 025: yeah they used to burn them things {X} Interviewer: Is that what they were called? 025: I forget what they called some of them {X} Interviewer: Do you ever call them go devils? 025: No I don't think I ever heard them called go devils Interviewer: #1 Did you ever hear anything called a go devil? # 025: #2 Yeah # Interviewer: What is it? 025: Well what I'd always heard called Interviewer: Okay now Tell me what a 025: {X} things in the shape of a {X} on the one end of it had a hammer on it and the other a {X} When people {X} {D: devil} I don't give a frick it's for a lot of good people. Interviewer: Alright. 025: They'd take them and hang them on their {X} y'know and on they'd drive their revs with the hammer part and then when we'd got to want to {D: skip the grabs out} they'd take that other thing and knock 'em out Now that's what I hear go, called go devil. Interviewer: Ah. 025: Only thing ever I hear called go devil. Interviewer: How long was it? was it about the size of a- of a 025: oh then'd uh {X} that's four to six inches Uh the spike end would have the sharp end was about I guess six inches I don't know about there Interviewer: I'd like to see it. 025: {X} Interviewer: Okay but that's 025: and that's what they used them for this mostly now for logging Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You can take 'em bore a hole in that hat on it and I'll hang it on her hands and take it right on with 'em. Interviewer: Right. 025: Take it right off the ground with the hammer part. Interviewer: I say. 025: Skipping with that other thing Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And then s a lot of times people did that with crowbars You know what a crowbar is. Interviewer: Sure. #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: I don't- I'm not sure I know what you mean by skipping them though. 025: Well that's skipping grab. Call 'em grab skippers. That'd be enough and s Grab out of the log you see. Interviewer: {NW} 025: I've got some of them over there and I used to do Interviewer: Say knocking the grab out? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Knocking the grab out? 025: Yeah Interviewer: What's the grab? 025: Oh now that's that thing that you drive in the log. Interviewer: {NW} 025: The pull Interviewer: The pull haul I see that's the 025: I can show you some things. all I need and I can tell you what they are I've got some of the greatest out there now. Interviewer: I want to see these after a while but it's this was the sort of thing that's driven into the log #1 {X} # 025: #2 Yeah. # Yeah, yes There's two kinds of grabs. There was grabs that was double grabs A long chain you know and they call them headers they tape that to the first log. Interviewer: Mm-mm. 025: And then there was other grabs that called rail grabs there's on the chain and one end of the gr- one grab on one end and one to the other one. And thataway they could connect two to- tulip- two together. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Go out yonder and you can go up the hillside you know and you'd pull it up {X} Interviewer: I see. I see. Well that's, so that's 025: The first 'un's the two that that had the Two grabs on one ring up here you know. Swiveling They'd call them headers. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And you nail them to the grip to the front grab. Thataway you know it'd pull straight. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And then them others they call a trail grab there'd be a trail grab A grab on each end of that chain. About altogether about {D: short lumps} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They took one on one log and one on another log and one back yonder hook another on that to the end and that end and you can get on the hillside you can just take a string of them off of there. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: If you's in level land then you can all your horses can pull you can hit the {X} Interviewer: Now were there any other now uh when you talked about plows before were there any other kind of plows that you, kind of plows you. The kind of plows you were talking about seemed more {D: elaborate}. Tell me about the kind of simple ones that are handled by just uh one 025: Well they just {D: turning} plows. And then they'd need double foots. Single foots it takes what you call a single foot lay off the ground with it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Take a double foot, plow their stuff with it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Take the turning plow you know and turn the ground to start with. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How about a {X} 025: Well they have that that's what I call a single file you know, little {X} a single footed plower to break up rough land with lay off with {X} Interviewer: How about the kind of plow that you use on a hill that you could flip over. 025: That's hillside turners you can flip it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Flip that thing you know it has a latch on each side you can flip that and {X} anyway you want it to you can go out this way and then when you got there you could flip a button go back around the hill. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But a turning plow just plows one way because their for level land you know {X} Interviewer: I see. 025: Sometimes you could start in the middle and sometimes you just go down the field you just put your where you want to plow. Interviewer: I see. 025: I've used them on hillside plow. It's handy. See thataway is about the only way you could do it. If you didn't have a hillside you'd have to drag your plow back to the other end. {X} And come back on it, you see. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Or you could plow going in the {X} Interviewer: I see, yeah, fine. Now the uh on a uh, uh on a wagon the um the uh, the things that a, that goes up between the two horses. 025: That's the tongue. Interviewer: And on a buggy. 025: Shaves Interviewer: And the 025: I don't know. Interviewer: The thing that goes through the wheel the wheel goes through the goes from one wheel to the other 025: That is the axle. Interviewer: Okay, now the, uh taking the wheel from the very center is uh. 025: There wasn't no wheel on the center Interviewer: At the center of the wheel the very center of the wheel 025: Huh. Interviewer: At the very center of the wheel where the axle goes through. 025: Oh that is a hub. Interviewer: Okay and then coming up from there are the 025: that's that wheel that fit right on there you know and then there's a nut big ol' nut Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: screw that on there Interviewer: Yeah. 025: keep it on. Interviewer: Uh-huh. What were the spokes what do you call the part of the wheel were the spokes went in to? 025: that's the f- rim Interviewer: and 025: And the hub short at the one end two down here at the bottom Interviewer: And what went around the rim? 025: one well that is the rim and the iron tire went around that you see Interviewer: Okay and what did you call you know what does one piece of the wheel that might have two spoke holes in it? 025: That's the hub. Interviewer: No up on the wheel. 025: That is the I would call that the I don't know the rim had a name huh. Which is a rim to start with you see. Interviewer: Well the rim but the rim was in pieces that's what I'm talking about. 025: Yeah it is, it's in sections. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And it's plowing in with the iron tire. Interviewer: Heh. 025: hell they don't know what they did seem like they call that the feller Interviewer: That's right that's what I wanted that that's what I wanted to hear what I wondered if they called it here that's what I was wondering about the feller, sure uh that was like the piece #1 the one the sections # 025: #2 yeah yeah # just a rim. The other word remains a rim, but they called it the feller or something like that. Interviewer: That's the word I was looking for. 025: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 That's the word I was looking for. # 025: of the wheel, about three spokes to a section Interviewer: That's the word I wanted, but I have it great deal of trouble trying to explain this to students of mine I tell them about this and they don't they never heard the word they're amazed that there is such a word for the outer pieces of the wheel. 025: Well it takes somebody that's been raised to that stuff and all I forget a lot of things. Interviewer: Now what about when you uh you uh hitch a horse to a wagon the that piece of wood that the horse actually pulls on. 025: That is a doubletree. Interviewer: Okay, now that would be if there were two horses. 025: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: What. 025: {D: Now they say} If you ever work one horse, you have to have it shaves like a buggy Interviewer: Well but, or we have doubletree. {X} But then in front of the- 025: And then the swingletrees face the tongue of the doubletree. Interviewer: Okay. 025: And there's a chain, I don't know {X} they called a stay chain that facing from the from the doubletree back to the axle. To keep one horse from pulling the other. that can get in the wagon you see. Interviewer: #1 Okay # 025: #2 Just get it so it'd work. # Interviewer: I see, okay. Uh, now let's go back to the hog uh raising again what did uh the uh uh the uh the male for the breeding animal. 025: That was boar. Interviewer: Okay and did they have did farmers and others use other words in the presence of women would they use the word boar? 025: They wouldn't hardly you know {X} Male hogs. {X} thought that wasn't just proper for women but now then they just say bull or boar there's more women into the cattle field now Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 And now # 025: #2 Gotta go behind the stump now uh? # Boar, bull or whatever jack Jenny Interviewer: was that another word you would avoid using around women? Jack? 025: No that's all you could do about it just the Jack. Interviewer: Yeah, okay, now that, the uh They would say that in the presence of women okay now let's take the 025: #1 from the time of # Interviewer: #2 Not # 025: boar and bull and men are sorta shy you know, about naming a boar. Interviewer: How about buck and, how about buck and ram? 025: Well they didn't seem to pay as much attention to that of course it's all the same and Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Just a buck or a ram. A ram, sheep or buck. Interviewer: I see. 025: Sheep had horns you just call it a ram and if it didn't have horns you're just a buck. Now that's where the ram Interviewer: #1 I see. # 025: #2 {X} # {D: come in and horn 'em.} You take some of them sheep you know they'd have a great big ol' horn. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: {X} Interviewer: They had those kinds around here with the- 025: They used to yeah, there ain't no sheep there anymore. People {D: dogs have to kill 'em} People went out of the sheep business Interviewer: Uh from the time that when the they When it's full grown you call it a hog. When it's first born it's just a 025: Pig Interviewer: Now how big can it be and still be called a pig, when 025: Well when they still call it a pig 'til it gets up to forty fifty pounds and they'll call it a shoat. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And then it gets out of the shoat it's a hog. Interviewer: Okay how, how big, what's the difference between a shoat and a hog? When is it when would you 025: Well a shoat's a {NS} is a you take it's like I told you a while ago a pig you can call 'em a pig 'til they get up to thirty, forty, fifty pounds and then on that they. They're shoats then 'til they get up to maybe weigh a hundred pounds and then they're hogs or something like that. That may not be just correct. Interviewer: No, but the basis is the rea- you, you ba- you base it on weight more than anything else. 025: Yeah, on size. Interviewer: I see, and then a female a full grown female is a. 025: Is a sow. Interviewer: And what about an unbred female? 025: Then she'd be a gilt. Interviewer: Okay. And the stiff hairs on a hog's back? 025: Huh? Interviewer: The stiff hairs on a hog's back. 025: On the neck? Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. 025: Bristles. Interviewer: Okay. And and the did you ev- did they ever have any wild hogs up here in the 025: They have had them. Interviewer: Did you call that anything special? 025: We call 'em wild hogs. They'd say in the mountains, you'd never get one of them {D: far enough} Interviewer: Mm. 025: People, they've, might, I knowed a few people catching 'em that you bring 'em in drink them do nothing with them wouldn't eat put 'em up and wouldn't eat They're just wild. Interviewer: Were these just animals that had gone uh. 025: Just hogs had gone wild you know. Some sows and Interviewer: Did they ever have any with the 025: Yeah them old big long Tushes you know just Several inches long. Interviewer: Now after you got around to to uh when they when they cut out the uh open range and put up the fences they you raised then Then where did you raise your hogs? 025: Well you take this page wire fence from some people {X} and make picket fences you know have to have something pretty close for pigs. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh then I have to page wire {X} and I'm okay to page wire fences you know put barb wire at the bottom to keep 'em from ripping it under Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {X} Interviewer: The uh Interviewer: The um really starts raining in a hurry here This has no no warning at all just comes down in a sheet that's amazing. I've never seen a rain begin so quickly. 025: {X} Interviewer: I better, I better see make sure my windows are rolled up. 025: My shotgun's loaded. One sitting against the little door and one the other Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: well a burglars will come in on you if you're a fixed for it you protect yourself Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: I've got two or three guns. My wife's good with a shotgun. Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 She can't use a pistol much # but she can use a shotgun. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {NS} I've got two pistols in there that I keep loaded I never have had to use them for anything like that. {NS} Interviewer: You don't have much uh 025: You was talking about that uh that Latham Interviewer: #1 Yeah # 025: #2 Marian Latham # I he's a fine feller I guess his daddy was a Methodist preacher and they's rai- raised a gang of boys you know and there's awful poor people and mom's stepmother cooked out there at the dormitory Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: This, these boy's daddy after he's an old man in that big family. He'd walk several miles out there in them knobs and come out there to that Mercy college to get education enough to preach. And he finally got it but now, a man that's got a big family, there's a whole lot of them boys and I don't believe there's any girls. And he used to come carry on meeting and stay for two or three days or maybe a week at a time when revival's on. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And he raised a good set of boys, some of them's preachers. There's one preacher in the bunch. But this Marian I know him the best one's that got the motel. Now I don't know how he ever got that he must've married into some money or something another. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: because he works for the electric people and has all these years. I don't know, he's old enough to retire. Interviewer: Did he live out sort of in in where, in the valley here? 025: No he was born out this side of Sevier over there in what they call the tenth district over there. Turn off out this side there to five oak farm turn off out there, and left there in the tenth district Interviewer: I think he woke me up this morning I talked to a man last night and he said I I asked if he'd wake me up at seven you know I had to call he said well maybe I'll have to get your clock cause I'm not sure anybody will be up at seven so uh but he did, he woke up- I woke up myself. 025: You ask him if he knows me now. Him and my boy belongs to the same lodge out there. Interviewer: I see. 025: They go to the same lodge. I forget what it is Eastern There's a lot along there Eastern star I don't know what it is. {X} They're good people. He's an awful talker. This Marian is I know one day they was putting in a light pole up here took 'em all day a whole crew of them took the whole day put in a light pole right up on here. I went up there two or three different times and old Marian he just quit and go talking to me you know Interviewer: #1 a huh # 025: #2 and the rest of the # fellers just worked on. Interviewer: Yesterday we were talking about hogs I forgot to ask you about the name what do you call a hog that's been fixed? 025: #1 Barrow. {C: pronounces it as Barry} # Interviewer: #2 Or castrated? # Can say it again please. 025: Barrow. Interviewer: Okay. 025: I don't know how that's spelled B-A-R-R-R-Y I guess. He's a boar 'til he's trimmed I mean you'd call it castrated anyway takes his seeds up Then he's a {D: barry}. Well that's the kind you fatten you can't you can't eat boar meat. I don't know how they do it I've been to the stock yards {X} but now I don't know how they do it. You kill a boar and you can't eat it. You kill a sow that's in season you know, and you can't eat that used to when we kill sows we had to wash that all off the clothes. You get one in there you can't eat it they're just strong you can smell it. it'll fill up your {X} I used to take my sows up there He had a great big boar. I guess he weighed six seven hundred pounds. He's mean. And uh they got to where they couldn't do nothing with him and this year feller let his. {X} And he let him have that and they kill it and they couldn't eat it. And he sold it to one of his sister's boys. And he took it out here {X} supermarket he had there then and they sold it and said that. They cut they didn't know it you know said they cut them hams and meat and sell them and said the folks would bring them back just about as fast as the took 'em about to get in a lawsuit about it. I don't know what they done or what they ever did do about it. But it was probably all rancid. This boy didn't know no better and Fred or the man that bought it for Fred they didn't know no better. But boy when they went to frying it they know better well you can smell that stuff for a long way. You can't eat it. If an old sow's in heat you can't eat that neither. You've got to watch that but now how they do that at the stock yards, I don't know. Interviewer: Huh. 025: These boars, I don't I don't know what they do I've asked fellers and they said they give them shots or something another and I've been there I used to sell a lot of hogs during the east Tennessee packing house You'd be in there, you'd see them come in there unloading them old sows you know and them all swelled up And I don't know what they do. they some kind of process it's just like people that runs dairies There's a wild onion smells like ranch you know a cow eat them you can't drink her milk. And I've Woman live right down below us here and she used to work for a dairy she said that the they had some kind of powder they'd put in that milk to kill that stench you know? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But there's something funny about that. You milk a cow every morning it wasn't in it, but milk her in the night it was in it. We used to have plot of them they grow along the creeks you know the bottom. Interviewer: You need a ramp or. 025: #1 well there's a wild onion in there # Interviewer: #2 something like that. # 025: between the wild onion and a ramp they's they'll eat cows eats them they like them Interviewer: Mm. 025: And they make a bloom on top of them with seeds you know on the top. And. I don't know, you just can't milk it, can't milk it. One time I got some stuff down here at the drug store something to put in it. It helped a little didn't help it too much. But this woman said they had some way of doing that and cow's will take what they call last utters and their bags will swell up you know in the crud and you can't hardly get the milk out well country people wouldn't use that Well she said if they can milk them {X} She said they didn't pay no attention to that so there you are you don't know what you're eating when you get meat and you don't know what you're drinking when you get milk and of course everything now is government expected. {X} inspected but sometimes they get around that government stuff Interviewer: Sure. 025: it's just like hogs there's days come now when they put these little butchers out of business. And uh I know several of 'em and they said that just allow 'em one day a week back when hogs was plentiful than beef And they killed people you know privately? Said that they had a federal man come and stay with 'em till they got out. Interviewer: Is that right? 025: And over here at Blount county I used to go down to the stock yard a lot and there's a fella over there he bought lots of ponies He rent a little he rent a little slaughter house over here somewhere near Maryville And he'd buy all these little old ponies you know ponies got cheap you got in and you'd get a great big pony that weigh five or six hundred pounds fifteen twenty dollars. And he'd buy all poor cattle I got to watching him he'd buy all the ponies and he'd buy all the poor cattle. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And the inspector went in one day and he had one of them ponies killed and skinned and laying on the table and cutting it up and make hamburger out of it. Put a little beef in it you know They put him out of business. Interviewer: Well You you know they were gonna eat gonna eat they were. 025: {D: Put it in your salad.} mixing it up you know Them ponies is you know they're they're plain as cattle and all but they say horse meat is is coarse, grainy meat. But he was grinding that and maybe grinding it twice you know and put a little bit of these old poor cow's meat in with it you know. He got by with it for a long time. And this inspector actually got so close on him you know he come in and caught him they shut him down right there and then like they broke him up. He had a store. {X} I knew the fella. He'd come into the stock yard. I forget what his name was but he lived over in Blount county. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Now they, they get by usually the inspector can't be there every minute. Interviewer: Sure, sure. In hog raising when you uh where do you keep your hogs? 025: Well you can like I told you yesterday most of the people had lots they'd put 'em in back before they got to having page wire, they'd nail on big ol' crocked rails and. They'd make a fence like that that'd turn 'em but you couldn't pasture hogs and sheep in a barbed wire for {X} barbed wire fence unless you had them awfully close. Hogs are a mean thing, they would get me. And I used to, {D: I used to have a lot} Maybe four or five I used to keep {X} per six acres {X} I had a page wire fence I put 'em over there and raise 'em. Interviewer: How about 025: They have lots around here the page wire I just, I used to raise a lot of hogs. Interviewer: How about a shelter? The shelter they they stayed in? 025: Well if you've got woodlands, they'll make their beds and have their pigs they'll carry great big {D: brush} you know you can have a house. Everybody try to have a little house for 'em to lay in you know. But these old sows was funny you'll have a good house there for 'em and they'll go and carry in great big brush. And make 'em and leaves and make 'em a great big bed and have 'em in a fence corner or out and under a tree or something another. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: One time I had someone here and had 'em fix so they could go into the barn and had a place fixed to go into the barn. My sow was gonna have pigs and I thought she was ready to have pigs and I shut her up. And the next morning I went down there and looked at her, she was {D: gaint} it seemed she'd done she had done something Interviewer: I'm sorry did you say she was, she was 025: Huh? Interviewer: She was what? 025: Well I said she was hadn't I her put in the stable you know to have her pigs that night had her good bed in I fixed her she going to the barn shed you know go in there and I can shut her up. And I shut her up one evening and at this time I thought she was ready to have pigs. Interviewer: Is that what {D: gainked} means? 025: Huh? Interviewer: {D: Gainked?} 025: She was {D: gainked} Hog didn't have a lot like she hadn't had nothing to eat #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 I see. # Oh I see. 025: She had her pigs and it come a big rain and the branch got out A nail rail fence over there, was on yonder side of the branch. Well I turned the sow out I seen there something the matter I turned the sow out and I followed her. And them little pigs laying over in the fence corner right on the branch bank And they was there and I got me a big basket and went over there and got 'em and carried 'em back over and put 'em in the stables and she'd come on back to 'em and I laid laid over there all that you know I thought she was ready to have pigs and she had them the night before. Interviewer: I see. 025: Right along and instead of going in there and it was fixed so she could go in there Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Instead of going in there and having 'em in that stable she went over and had 'em on the bank of the creek. They'll carry in great big brush, they would drag 'em in. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They'll fix 'em up a great big thing. That's just nature you know. And I, hogs will do a whole lot better, and cows too if you'll let them have their way. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Let 'em have their calves wherever they want to and let 'em have their pigs where ever they want. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They'll do a lot better. It's just nature. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: It'll take care of 'em. Interviewer: Now. Uh did did the enclosure right around uh uh the hog house or whatever you'd call it uh um did you ever have a did you call that anything? 025: What? Interviewer: The kind of uh fence or whatever, little fenced in area around the hog house. 025: No they just depends on how many lots you have some people they have more than others you know some of them have a whole field, some 'em just have a lot maybe half acres, acres, something like that. Interviewer: The hog house is just right in the 025: #1 Get 'em in there so they can go in there and lay you know. # Interviewer: #2 In the lot is so # 025: Oh I used to build one, maybe twelve, fifteen feet wide and four or five six feet wide Cover it one way you know leave the front of it open so they can go in. Interviewer: Did you ever have a place out in the out in the pasture where you'd um uh where you'd milk the cows? 025: Yeah we used to do that {X} you can't milk every cow out in the field some of 'em you can, some of 'em you gotta put 'em in the stables. Sometimes you got to put {D: tiggers} on 'em. {NW} And uh all cows ain't alike, you've got a good ol' gentle cow, you can just go out there Get you a stool and sit on there and sit the bucket down take both hands and milk the two gallon bucket fill the right amount in a little bit. Now others, you've got to take them, put 'em in the barn. Not a lot of people you know these cows have got calves And if you're going to use them for milk cows you've got keep the cows in the stable or in a lot somewhere or another and let you cows come in at milking time, and let them have what the milk they want you to have, half of it. That's the general rule, let them suck two tits and you get two. Interviewer: Uh-huh I see. 025: But now then people's quit milking there ain't no money, all the farmers here just quit milking they just turn their cows out and let 'em have their calves you know and then keep them cash to fall {X} next year or something and seal the calves off and raise more. There's, there's no money anymore, very people milk, just very few. Used to everybody had a c- nearly everybody had a cow or two. Some of them had a half a dozen I have had ten or twelve at one time y'know so Interviewer: Did you have a, like that place uh Did you ever have a place out in the corner of the field where you might put a uh a rail down or something to keep the cow in there when you milked her? 025: Oh some people would do that you know and they'd maybe have to bring their cows in from somewhere maybe if you had a like a fine cash cow {X} and have to bring 'em all here. And I remember one time my grandpa led the cows Take them about a mile from here and go over there and get 'em and had a lot here put 'em in for the night. And uh keep 'em from wandering around and then the next morning milk 'em and then take 'em back over there. Interviewer: Did you call that place anything in particular? 025: No just Interviewer: You ever like uh 025: Cause there ain't a name for it just like. Interviewer: Like a little gap. 025: Just a lap or gap or or pen Interviewer: #1 I see. # 025: #2 or something like that you know. # Interviewer: And you and you and the place where the hogs stay, did you ever call that a hog pen or a 025: Well now a hog pen is thing that's built up off of the ground you know, floor Interviewer: #1 I see, that's what I wanted to know. # 025: #2 but you put the hogs you know # They's an old out yonder it's about rotted down, I ain't had enough hogs lately. You'd make them hog houses out of things you want to, so some of them Maybe fatten two hogs and let a little pen {D: that wasn't more than six for six or something} but I'd always had 'em about sixteen feet long and about six or eight feet wide you know sometimes I make 'em big enough that I can put a partition in 'em you know put big ones on one side and smaller ones on the other or something like that you know. Interviewer: I, was that, was that floor, that floor uh Was that just under the house or did it come all the way out? 025: I mean just like this floor, just up off the ground you know it wouldn't rot that you had to leave space for something from the {X} hog pen will get all nasty Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You've got to keep them cleaned out you know. Interviewer: Sure. 025: Them hogs are a thing that it's hard to keep a hog at this time the weather in a pen, they'll just a hog can't stand no heat. You'll kill a hog in just a little bit, you take a hot day like this time of year, if the sun is shining, you take a hog and If you take him to market, you've got to start early in the morning, they can't no heat. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: As one of my brother-in-laws, he'd had a stuck sow off somewhere or another and it was a hot day and he stopped up here to {D: spring} {D: fella leave her there on the road} down the way home for him. He had a, I guess he had this sow in a wagon, pickup truck or something. He had to {D: stop start} getting her some water and those sows are getting so hot. He got a bucket throwed the bucket full with water on her it just killed her deader than four o'clock right there. Interviewer: Is that the 025: They just can't stand it. Interviewer: Is that right? {NW} 025: You can go to the state He'll go for the packing houses and you hardly ever went there for what they was some hogs to laying there that had died I don't what the done with 'em I guess they made them up in the tankage or something. Interviewer: In the what? 025: They made the lot of that put a lot of that in tankage, put something else with it you know and sold it back to people to co- to uh feed their hogs, that tankage, it make 'em grew I don't know what all that in it, I bought a lot of it. It sure would make hogs grow you know, tankage would You'd find bones lots of times in it where they they'd run it through some kind of a mill but maybe they'd miss it {D: gonna make a} great big bone anyway. They ground the bones and all of it up. I don't know how they done it, but the packing houses. Interviewer: Hogs do eat their, their Do sows ever eat their pigs? 025: Yeah, Interviewer: Yeah that's what I 025: Yeah I had one one time that would eat 'em as fast as they come I never let her have no more. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But there's a cause for that. The cow, they the what not not the c- When a sow eats her pigs, she needs something, she's some kind of vitamins or something, now if you let 'em stay outside, they hardly ever do that but if you put one I had a mean sow one time, she's a big sow couldn't keep her no more. And I kept her in the, in this pen and uh from the time nearly that she was bred on 'til she had her pigs. And one day I was out there at the barn, and I come back out and I hear pigs screaming and I went back out there and that old sow was having 'em and eating 'em just as fast as they come. Just turn right around and eat 'em. But as a general rule if you had a sow out in the field or out somewhere there's something they get, some kind of minerals or something that they they eat ain't got that makes them eat their pigs is what people argue and I don't know what they're talking about and I know it works, because I kept that {X} you know and it's the only one I remember having that just eat her pigs just as fast as they come. Interviewer: Mm. 025: She had and you can get a sow too fat. See I had kept her up there and fed her good and she was too fat a fat sow That's ready for market Things like that They don't have as good of a look through pigs as a sow that's just ordinarily kept Interviewer: Uh-huh. Was that pen did that, was the, did, was the entire flooring, floor area, was that entire part covered or was there some part that was open? 025: No, I know's take a place like that you know pen, you're {D: encovered} Interviewer: Uh-huh, the whole pen is covered. 025: Yeah, the whole thing and But you'd always need your take boards or something you see sheet iron draws heat. Hogs can't just can't stand heat. Interviewer: And they 025: You can run one a little whiles, try to catch it or put it in another field and you're just as liable to kill it or not, they just can't stand it. Now cattle, you can just run them horses will you still wouldn't work horses You've got to be careful with your horses cutting wheat and heavy work you know, they'll get too hot. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. With the uh cattle, did you have a place next to the barn where they could come in and maybe even get in under the rain? 025: Oh yeah. Some people do and some don't, some people don't even ain't got no shade. There's a fellow right over here adjoining me his cattle comes and gets in the creek they shade on my side and the creek's between us. And he th- these hill flies will aggravate the cattle to death they'll run them to death in the summertime. And they'll get in the shade or they'll get in the water If they can get in the water, they get in it up to their necks to keep them flies off of them. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And them heel flies ain't been here too long. When I was a boy there's flies on the back oh he's talking about the the Joe Woods and that old man Dave Hendrick And Dave Hendrick explained explain that to me what happened. It's a cross between our fly and a western fly. People got the shipment of western cattle here you see from out west. Well this is a mix Our old fly was just a regular cattle fly, and they just covered their back up but they do lay eggs or something in there and make great big ol' larva as big as your finger in their back and then next spring they have to get 'em out or Interviewer: Was that kind of a bum? 025: Yeah, just a worm Great big worm, as big as your finger Uh we'd catch 'em and squeeze 'em out {X} {X} find out what happened, he said what Dave Hendrick said {X} He said this was a cross between the western fly and our fly that caused these heel flies and they'll get around the cow's heels you know and and they'll run, they'll just go through fences or anything it'd just run 'em crazy {X} Now that generally comes in May and June and then it's all over. But now then there's a face fly that comes after that. And that's what give cattle the pink eye. Face flies, people have that, we had trouble with it cattle go blind with it They will just work around, they're worse on white face cattle than they are black ones. And uh this Eyes were just inflamed you know and they would plum blind they would. We had one last summer that went plum blind. Got a boy down here, he's a pretty good vet. Keeps some medicine, he come up here She was alive. She'd run into the barn, the fence. He brung his boy and son-in-law, they had to, couldn't get her in the barn you know, she couldn't see. But she had couldn't get close enough to her get a hold of her. Them boys Lassoed her you know, throwed a rope over her neck and two of them held her and he give her a shot and put some stuff in her eye and she here she is she's alright. But they will, I've seen them at the stock yards where their eyes would bust. Interviewer: Is that right. 025: It gets so bad you know, their eyes'd are bust. Interviewer: #1 Gets uh # 025: #2 But they've got a remedy for that # now, you can get it in town. But the longer it lasts in 'em the worse it gets. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They'll finally go out and some of them never come back. Their eyes will be They get up there and they The place where they'll bust, and when they're bust, their sight never comes back you know. Interviewer: At at the barn, they the place where the uh the cows go, there might be a little extension out in the barn where they can walk in under. What do you call that? 025: A what? Interviewer: Oh it's that, it's a little, like a little roof that uh kind of comes out from the #1 barn roof. # 025: #2 Well they call that a shed. # Interviewer: Okay, that's {X} That's called different things, I might sound silly but some people call it a 025: Well we'd call that area a shed {X} I got two barns, one of 'em got a shed and the other one ain't. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But them sheds now they obviously {X} down here, in these two sheds course uh One of them's open and the other one's got hay in it but these cows will go in there and lay you know. Keep salt in there you know, you lay block salts you know, if you leave it out in the rain, it don't last as long as it does if you put it in the dry If you put it in the dry, it'll twice as long as it will out in the rain salt will melt you know. Get a puddle of water It won't melt too bad from the rain but it'll melt if if it gets water around it I used to keep cattle there down in the bottom of the creek, it'd overflow and maybe I'd lose a whole block of salt at one time and it'd just melt over night where the water gets over to it you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh yeah. Uh, when, when the hogs use the barn, when you let 'em right into the barn, uh 025: You could let 'em go into the barn but now that doesn't doesn't mean, you could. That is almost just the last chance you get the hogs in your barn the fleas will get so bad they leech you up. You can't go with the barn without the fleas getting all over you. We used to get in the back Could put 'em in the barn if you're going in the barn. Hogs creates fleas and they create flies. Interviewer: Alright. When they went in the barn though, did you call that, and you said mention the word stable. And I just wanted- 025: No that's a stable that you keep your cattle in. In big stables some barns are bigger than others these down here is big stabled. It's an old barn or big stables are bigger and are stabled up this barn. That's where you put 'em in, got a door to 'em and shut 'em up. Interviewer: Was. Did you ever call that a hog stable? 025: Uh no, maybe if we had a certain stable down there that we'd keep a hog in we'd call it down there in the stable where the hogs stayed or Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh but # 025: #2 something like that or # hog lots Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: We've got a lot right out here now and We always get hogs out there and we'd still call it the hog lot. Interviewer: Mm. 025: {NW} Two acres and {NW} still call it the hog lot. Interviewer: What do the, how does the whole barn set up, your big barn? Uh what uh Could you kind of describe it for me? 025: Well I can show ya out here what time would you uh Interviewer: Well first tell me about it and then 025: #1 Well what just what do you mean # Interviewer: #2 Well well well I # what uh for instance what What did you use if for if you had the stables in, you had some stables in there but what else? 025: Well Put the hay in the barn loft {X} Put the hay in the barn loft and put it on the shed where you an get the {X} got it down there in stables and and then the sheds too if we got a lot of hay and ain't got too much room. I mean I don't have room for it all the time. Used to hay sold good, it don't sell so good now. People, everybody like I told you had a mule or something to farm with, and had a cow or two to raise her milk to the family you could sell all the hay you had. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Well people nowadays, these milk trucks will drive right to your door you know and people's got jobs and working and it's easier to they think, to keep a to buy the milk than it is to keep a cow, buy a feed for her y'know. Interviewer: Sure. Did you ever uh did anybody around here call that anything other than the barn loft? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Other than the barn loft 025: That's all ever I hear Interviewer: Did they never 025: Loft. Interviewer: Yeah? Did you ever hear it called a mow? 025: A what? Interviewer: A mow? Or a haymow? 025: Uh-uh. Well I heard of that haymow but I've never heard of it called a barn loft I don't know what that haymow means unless it's just a rick of hay outside something like that. Interviewer: I see. 025: And I might add, {X} there's a lot of people you know that'll used to stack their hay. Just put in a big pole and stack their hay, I guess that's what you mean and then later on, if they wanted to have barn room they could put it in and they'd stack it there you know they'd dry it out and then get a baler to come stationary baler, people used to have stationary balers you know and get dry it up. Bale your hay. But now and then there's nobody puts up hay any more hay like that. Everybody puts up their hay with a, with a baler. Interviewer: Did you ever see a covered hay stack? 025: Well I've seen ricks of hay where people had covered 'em with canvas or something like that. Interviewer: But not with like a roof over it. 025: Well they just thought, they just pack it up you know maybe and then have a stack of hay as big as this room and then they get big tarpaulin or some big ol'', some kind of canvas and put over it and I seen some down here two Sundays ago at this Baptist hospital there's two big wagon loads there there at the hospital that went out from the hospital I guess there's a hospital property. And they had old big. Tarpaulins or some kind of canvas over them you know. Course they was going to put that at the barns no more but I guess they didn't have time and they just covered it with that to keep it from getting wet 'til they could get it unloaded. But I have seen it {NS} just uh Took out thataway you know, and packed up lay something under, this hay on the ground will soon rot And cover it up with something another there Interviewer: Do you still call it a rick even if it was as big as this room? 025: Well they don't make 'em that big sometimes. Now one time I went to To Florida. Son-in-law took me and he went to work at the plant and he got out {X} payday We went through there and went through a cooler load. {X} And all through that country you know they, that's the way they put their hay up. They just make uh we call 'em shocks or stacks. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They ain't too big if they're shocks And if they're big enough they're stacks so we gotta pull out. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And now these fellas will just make 'em you know and great big uh you know just not too big just. That's the way they did they said they let it stay there and just {D: fed} it out like that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Was it, it wasn't uh it wasn't piled up in the same as you. 025: It was just the shocks start big at the bottom and run off at the top you know, {D: they would hurt water} for a a whole winter. {X} You can put 'em up dry 'em out on this fall and then bale them next spring {X} that water just It turns water just goes about so deep and that's it, well it. When it goes so deep the sun'll come out you know and keep it dried out. Interviewer: I see. 025: And people used to thresh wheat and oh have big has stacks, or big straw stacks you know and and let the cat around, the cat'll eat that straw. They'd go plumb through a stack of hay. Eat whole, plumb through a stack of hay. Interviewer: How big, how many say wagon loads have you seen in a stack of hay? Say a really good sized hay stack, how many wagon loads might that be? 025: Well all that depends you know on how big the wagon loads you've got. You could put several loads of hay. You could make a stack as big as you wanted or as little as you wanted. You could make it to hold a half a dozen wagon loads or make it to hold three or four, just depends you had a pretty good idea, you and then you'd just have to start it so big you know. Interviewer: Is a couple thousand pounds of hay 025: Ooh oh yeah, there'd be more than that in a lot of 'em. Interviewer: Where'd you keep your grain? Or where do you 025: Well we had places just to put that I'd go out there with a big garner made out of poplar. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh. Poured in them Interviewer: What do 025: Then hold. I then hold four uh fifty, sixty, maybe seventy maybe a hundred bush loads I know the last year we raised oats was a hundred bushels and we put it up there and two garners and didn't have 'em full. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {X} Interviewer: Is uh Are the garners in a in a in a special What building are the garners 025: They're right there and they're right in a walk way between 'em, one end's a crib you know and under it all I keep my car or truck in there, plain 'em We don't use them garners much anymore, we don't make no grain anymore. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Few years ago I had a feeling. Oats you know, I had them in there, still got some of them. Interviewer: But you didn't call it a granary. 025: Yeah I called it a granary and that's what it was but these were places where you put it you call them garners. Interviewer: I see. 025: There's four of 'em. Interviewer: #1 I see, and you could drive a wagon in between the crib. # 025: #2 You can # Drive the wagon in there. Interviewer: Between the crib and the 025: Yeah. Interviewer: granary. 025: Yeah. Interviewer: Wa- was the, was the crib considered part of the granary too? 025: Yeah used to try a place in there you can drive through it but we finally close up the back end there you know and we just back the wagon in there and when we hauled that on the wagon and and got to hauling it in the For the tractor and the four wheel wagon, you could just back 'em in there. It's easier than turning than turn it all that out shut the door and nail it back up, had to keep it nailed up. Interviewer: But, was the, was the crib considered part of the granary and the 025: Yeah, but we put the crib was over here you know and that's where we put our corn we gathered the corn you know in the in the year. But now then, you can't they have they've even while they'd gather {X} and then pick up in a year so you could sell it or do whatever you want to it. Now then that that's played out there's only one combines I know of in here. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They see a store and {D: hit shell} {X} Fellow out right next to me. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They gather that and it's got a great old big ol' long pipe And it'll hold about a hundred bushels it's two side of it. It'll hold a hundred bushels to the side a little'll fill that up. And then if they're gon' sell it, they've got wagons And they'll just run it out that pipe and then take it on to the mill or if we're going to this fella up here, he's got thousands and thousands of chickens, he raises his and to feed his chickens, but he's got places at home where he can empty their stock, y'know. And he's got mills to grind that up and make chicken feed out of it saves him from buying so much and then he rents a lot of land around here and grows milo milo for things It's, the seeds ain't as big as wheat or something like that but makes awful good chicken feed he grows a lot of that and combines it. And he makes that stuff all up but it saves him thousands and thousands of dollars. These seeds are getting to be out of reason. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: These people going out of the chicken business on the count of thieves. Thieves {D: harden} chickens they came out of those here while back Where they was killing little chickens by the thousands, they just. Interviewer: I saw that. 025: Couldn't raise the chickens and come out on the thieves. And that's why this fellow shines up here, why he {D: furnishes scat} {X} more chickens. He's got 'em up there by the thousands He's. Naw I've got plenty. They've got {X} my neighbor down here, he built. He built three houses in there then, three houses that held fifty Had fifty-two thousand chickens, had a ton. Now got three houses, but they quit, and using the houses for something else, they're still up here. They raised {X} down there. This fellow up here lays bout Keep laying chickens and hens lay eggs Interviewer: What do they call that little thing that you take chicken around in the maybe you might put the little chicks in when 025: Coop. Interviewer: Pardon? 025: A coop. {NW} Interviewer: That's what I 025: {NW} Interviewer: Before we had uh refrigerator and icebox, how did you keep your milk and butter co- uh cool? 025: Well we've got a big stream down there and water'll run through there, we keep air in that way and other people in there Used to people'd have bells and tie a rope around 'em or something, and let down the well then later on, begin to get {NW} iceboxes. Have to get your ice over here at Sevierville and go over there and get you a hundred pound ice and put it in that there thing to keep your milk and butter and things like that in. Interviewer: Did you ever have a little kind of a house thing down at the the uh spring? 025: Went down to spring, I just, it's so wet though that you get your feet wet going down there. A spring, we've got a big spring. And uh it's concreted on each side you know and then there's a place about a foot and a half wide or maybe two foot down through there, follow the stream of water around through and it's cool. And they fix it there you know, put up the put the milk and the butter and everything in in there. But then you had to be awful careful when the creek got up. The spring is nearly low as the creek and a lot of times when the creek'd get up and back the spring branch up and you'd have to run down there and set it all up or lose your milk. A lot of times you'd lose it. Interviewer: What'd you call that place where the concrete was? Did you call- 025: Well we just called it the spring box, something like that. {X} Interviewer: I see, did anybody ever dig dig a oh, maybe a place for storing potatoes, dig it in a, dig us into the ground or in the #1 side of the road? # 025: #2 Well now they don't # thrive around here. I know we used to try every which way in the world to save sweet potatoes. But now you're talking about Irish potatoes. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: People would take Irish potatoes and they would lay some straw or hay or something on the ground and then they'd cover 'em up with that and then they'd cover that up with dirt. And then'd, then maybe just stick some planks up, plant. {X} I kept mine, had a little house built into the chicken house down there and I'd keep mine in there in the dry. You could save sweet potatoes that way all winter, but you couldn't do much with Irish pot- Sweet potatoes. Now they sprouted down here in the {D: board's creak section} Used to raise lots of taters to sell on the market. They had regular houses for that and kept 'em at a set at a certain temperature. And then they had to keep 'em there until next spring when tatoes- potatoes got high you know. And then take them over to Knoxville and sell 'em to markets. {D: Sore}, market. Interviewer: When they dig that into the ground and cover it with straw and then cover it with dirt. 025: No you didn't dig a hole, you just laid it flat on the ground. If you dug a hole, water might stand and kill it. Interviewer: Okay. Did they call that anything? 025: I just called it tater holes. Interviewer: Oh okay, it was called a hole but they didn't dig a hole. 025: No they didn't dig a hole but they'd go in there you know and they'd stick their hand in under there I tell you When rain get 'em, that's what everybody you do, you'd see them around in people's gardens, some people didn't put 'em in the {D: dry} but I always did when I could. {X} With the place with the bottom or the one with no floor in it you know. Interviewer: What would you call this place right around the barn with the stock. 025: That's the barn loft. Interviewer: And then the, and where they the uh animals graze, 025: That's your pasture. Interviewer: Uh. Did did they ever grow cotton around here at all? Any at all? 025: Oh people used to grow a little for their own use, none for market. Interviewer: Did you ever grow any? 025: Yeah my, we grew it a little you know. Interviewer: Could could you uh. interviewer: um yeah now what was that 025: they called it chopping cot- #1 {X} # interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: the weeds outta it I reckon interviewer: Do they call that here too? 025: nah they ain't nobody ever raised any cotton in here from the market they just raise it for their own use ya know {C: bell sounds} interviewer: I see. 025: and then have to gather that stuff ya know and then pick the seeds out of it {D: and now that} take them old batting card like I's telling you about interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} # make 'em into baths put 'em into quilts interviewer: ah, what kind of w- weeds were there d- did ya. What are some of the worst kind of weeds you have to deal with out here 025: Crabgrass Crabgrass, that's just a thing that'll grow here in your land ain't too good here just take your garden or whatever you- #1 you've got # interviewer: #2 uh-huh # 025: another mean weed in this here it ain't so bad in this country but it's all over {X} county and a lot of it in Meyer's cove. Is what they call Johnson grass It's a thing that'll grow from seed out first thing you know a field's covered up in it. Can't get rid of it. But these different kind of weeds that'll give you trouble used to people had a lotta trouble with the ragweed, they're about played out Used to there's the stuff that get down near your feet {X} it was just the stuff that matted 'til people got to relying on their land and fertilizing it and getting the grass to grow so rank and it choked it out ya know #1 {X} # interviewer: #2 hmm # 025: none of it anymore interviewer: yeah, is there any of that kinda looks like clover that grows this flat along the ground got a name for that stuff? 025: ah there's a lot of things like #1 {X} # interviewer: #2 it- it- grows # especially where there's a lot of water ah where it's damp where the water where the the 025: you wouldn't call that watercreepers would ya interviewer: maybe so 025: uh? interviewer: that might be. I was uh there's some stuff in Georgia called bouncing Betty and I just #1 wanted # 025: #2 I never # hear a tell of that it might be the same thing here called something else interviewer: That's the kind of stuff that uh you can you can get rid of that with lime too if there's a uh uh #1 uh # 025: #2 well # cuz I know I've got anything like that hear a lot cuz somebody but these old water grasses {X} who can't get it rid of 'em take roots in down in the mud ya know and they have to clean your spring branch out two or three times a year interviewer: How is your farm laid out now in terms of the fields? they um when you were ah 025: Well, they was laid out just sort of the way it comes in handy ya know it would be have the field over yonder five or six acres ain't it on that side of the road and over here there'd be one with that much get on down the bottom lands down here my lands goes for miles one end to the other and then the forty acre fields down there. interviewer: your your farm is a mile 025: #1 a mile long # interviewer: #2 cause it # 025: #1 a mile # interviewer: #2 right about it # 025: well you'd have to go around the road. it wouldn't be quite that to go straight through. interviewer: Alright. 025: #1 great # interviewer: #2 is it # either side of the road? 025: on both sides 'til you get on down yonder then it stops and mine's on the other side. #1 and down # interviewer: #2 okay # 025: it's on both sides of the road until you get out through the patch of woods down there and it goes on and every field's got to get water in every field. interviewer: How big is that patch of woods you talked about? Is that 025: eh right at there the patch has got about two acres in it. {NS} Then over here on the hell I used have sixty acres over yonder in timberland and I sold several years ago couldn't been mile a way from home. people mistreated me over there. they cut my stuff and hauled it out lightning would strike the trees and kill 'em and first thing you know you had to go there and cut out a great big boundary of pine trees to get shed of the worms interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Then I've got some over here back when my son-in-law was there and there's two parts of that wood I guess that's there four acres of {X} ain't much down {D: Berness} country anymore ain't good timber up here. white oak and big black oak hey and big trees you can bring and make boards out of. interviewer: ah well you've a ah interested in how how you um make a difference between a field and a patch? Is there any sharp 025: Well a field is big piece of ground and a patch is maybe a half acre maybe an acre, maybe less. {X} patch We used to have a garden, half acre We'd never called it a patch we called it the garden. Well a patch I don't know what you mean what you're talking about. A patch is a little place out there somewhere that you've got cleaned up for certain things ya know call it a turnip patch er bean patch #1 I uh # interviewer: #2 or a # 025: patch or something interviewer: A patch usually has only one crop in it at a time? 025: just a little something interviewer: But is it or as big as say three acres you'd probably call it a field 025: yeah I'd call it a field. interviewer: Yesterday we were talking about fences and you mentioned your picket fence. uh and you mentioned the um uh the uh rail fence and the wire fence uh did uh would you uh tell me how uh I'm sure you've, you've made picket fences 025: I've seen 'em made #1 yah. # interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: Don't know why there's two or three ways you can make them and that is through {X} they'd take them and put them in there posts very close together there's a mean fence posts beginning to get weak then blow down and uh it had any amount of 'em and then take put two bars down here at the bottom and two bars up here you know and then you're {X} had this thing in there between them you could turn that back to forward and put them pickets in there and then crush your oars and another ya know and then when you got to the full of your nail and you all and then there's another way you could put you up couple of planks and nail your pickets to them. The picket fence was a mean fence. They they kissed a lot of wind and blow down. We just whatever happened to 'em. I don't even fool with them anymore. You've got your get wore you know and that wind'll go through the lore Devil will picket fence'll blow down on interviewer: Yeah Picket fences were but they will spaced weren't they? was there space 025: #1 The pickets were # interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: #1 {D: dryna a na na} # interviewer: #2 # 025: {D: under enough a nothing} hogs nothing's gonna get them. Some people a getting close enough to chickens and couldn't get them. just depends on what you gonna put in now {NS} interviewer: How did how did they make the pickets? 025: made them like them {D: microsticks}. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: While you are in {D: Cut ya} down the tree it'll split Whatever size ya want 'em go on four feet six feet or whatnot Take that bust 'em in two and get 'em to where you can put them in to get your big ol' fork and find you a fork and play somewhere There's about six inch through I don't know. Cut it off here you know where the fork started and then let it go on out there and then to the fork and then you'd stake that down and you'd cut your boards or your pickets in there dry wet fur in there and mash down on it and then split them right on interviewer: I see. Did they ever call those Palings? #1 Is that something different? # 025: #2 ya they call 'em # Paling fences sometimes or pickets fences interviewer: ya uh Is there any difference between the two? 025: no There's Palings and pickets {D:what whichever} some people call them one thing, some another ya know. interviewer: When when you're clearing a field you talked to me yesterday about clearing your field you had a lot of rocks or stones probably that 025: Well some people did but we never was bothered with that out here. But now up here by where my wife was raised and over here on down this mountain they'd pick up them rocks and they had rock fences over there it's been there I guess for a hundred years They'd make fences out of them rocks. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Lord did every time with them up there where she raised they had a big rock fence you know they had all them fences of rocks up there ya know And they'd lay their {X} And uh the rabbits would get in there you know and snakes and things they were dangerous {NS} be careful about it, {D: That old year I uh was trying to this mountain} there's one place over there that's got a lot of them rock fences. But up there where she was raised I think that fence is still there. interviewer: #1 How high is it? # 025: #2 It's a good one. # interviewer: How high did it stand? 025: huh? interviewer: How high did it stand? 025: eh just like any other fence. Four or five feet. interviewer: Is that right? 025: #1 it must have cattle # interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: {D: and nothing more.} interviewer: Some job putting up a fence like that? 025: That'd be something them rocks in there interviewer: Sure. 025: getting them off the field now and the best way to do that is to kill two birds with one rock er ya know and made 'em a fence interviewer: #1 {NS} # 025: #2 {X} # interviewer: Sure, sure 025: {D: They forgot that how fancy's them day} interviewer: ah what does it it put it it in a nest ah to fool a chicken? 025: do what? interviewer: you know, fool a chicken to, most of the time fool, a hen? 025: Well you could get artificial eggs and put them through that one's just get a egg that's you know extra white for them to sit on n' they won't hatch and take some of them if you want the good eggs something to lay in there and level better if there's an egg that goes with the nest egg interviewer: eh ah what 025: Chick-chickens in good luck and lay that one egg and interviewer: What are the artificial ones made of? 025: I don't know I guess there's some of 'em's glass and some of 'em's something else I've seen 'em I don't know if there's any here but I've seen 'em. Some of 'em would get gorge little gorge The chicken wouldn't know the difference and they's just still lay it But if you took all 'em out a lot of times the hen could used to now of course in the houses chickens has to lay wherever they are put. But used to you know, people didn't pen their chicken. They just let them run out and hide in places from the land They'd lay in the barn or wherever. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: And that a way, if you didn't do something a lot of times they'd move their nests somewhere else interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and get to places you wouldn't ever find them 'til they set on with nasty chickens and run off with 'em. interviewer: What kinds of gourds did they use? When they 025: Honest little gourds you know you know {D: punch your gourd-ner} along the fence or some more later one the fence and have some gourds there big gourds, little gourds, and all kinds of gourds. interviewer: Any kinds of called semolina? 025: huh? interviewer: Semolina 025: I never hear- interviewer: Semolina 025: Ah I don't know them little gourds they slow as my I've got a lot of them out there on the fence. I just laid out there and a lot of them rotted there might be some here somewhere But I don't know where they're at. They used to have a big gourd oh some of them hold a gallon or more you can make martin boards out of them you know. Take 'em and put them full big and high on a pole and cut a hole of out 'em and the Martin's would come over in spring and reason we done that Martin's would keep the crows off the crows would catch your chicken off the crow but the but the hawks would catch your chicken {NW} These your What have you lost? interviewer: nothing I though I smelled something burning I just wanted to be sure. 025: I don't reckon I don't flat myself before I do that sometimes. She made me a burn something in there interviewer: oh okay, well that's it ya oh it is, ya that's 025: Let me see if I can got off interviewer: ya that's right 025: cooking stove Yeah {X} interviewer: though i smelled {X} Auxiliary: Ya I burned {X} interviewer: oh well I was just afraid I afraid I I accidentally dropped a match or something eh Auxiliary: heh no interviewer: oh 025: {X} wood stove all I need is one of 'em irons I can get one hundred and eighty dollars for that thing smokes interviewer: uh-huh eight 025: and one of 'em gon' get so bad that I've got it and {X} not satisfied with that smoke and it don't do it every time interviewer: uh-huh 025: Last winter that coal gray get up and get in there and make a fun We'd smoke to beat the dickens. those stove and before that and stove before that I don't know what the matter's with it. She got it day we got it day {D:several} {X} They don't know that they could suck them into flour up there boy that put 'em up He put new pup in it. interviewer: Yeah 025: took a broom cleaned flew out I don't know what to do Now what I found out what makes it {X} don't do that every time you put flour in it. Just sometimes. interviewer: Alright. I see, well maybe it has something to do with the weather. 025: But you take in the winter time and the doors don't shut you can't stand it. interviewer: uh-huh Ah with the uh, uh talking yesterday about the man with the mule and the {D: hod-too} 025: Yeah. interviewer: di- did he also makes those things that you carry water in? or did you buy them? 025: You mean the little kegs? interviewer: Pardon? 025: Some kind of little wooden kegs? interviewer: Yeah. 025: No, I don't guess he ever made them. interviewer: How about the things with handles on them that you'd a ah go to the down to the spring with? 025: Do what? interviewer: What you would go down to the spring to get water? or you 025: You'd use buckets you own. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Galvanized buckets Aluminum buckets now interviewer: uh-huh #1 But do you? # 025: #2 carry water # now, when used to people would leave little keg's made out of cedar interviewer: uh-huh 025: and kick the whiskey out of 'em and cider Some of 'em would use 'em There'd be a whole gallon on up, maybe five gallons Here's another way to carry water in They'd use 'em to put their whiskey in A lot of people made whiskey back them days. Boys I know when I was a boy made, much younger than me, fellas make cider and had one of them little things and we'd take a tunnels out and wanna get in this keg of cider interviewer: Okay. 025: and keep up with drunk it up and send somebody else after another came. interviewer: {NW} What was keg cider made of? 025: Eh apples. interviewer: Ah yeah 025: just off and work off and make you drunker than a kick of whiskey. interviewer: {NW} is that right? 025: That's the worst drunk you ever got on is cider drunk it was about {D: ketty-ing} interviewer: Is that right? 025: Yeah Where's the whiskey? interviewer: What'd they call bad whiskey? ah uh stuff that's uh 025: Well there's a lot of people you know just there's people that know how to make whiskey and there's people that didn't know how to make whiskey Amanda learned how to make whiskey make it out of corn and good whiskey interviewer: uh-huh 025: Take a man that didn't know how to make whiskey and tell him to make it right quick to dodge the law and just put anything in it. Pity it. Some of it is poison, it'll kill you interviewer: Yeah. 025: he's got a fellow over here he was He was raised here in valley and lived over in North Dakota in Hampton Hollow and the law went in there and got him and if you know they ever known anything about these old ain't worst of the spliced and he duck him two of these old biggies ain't worst dubs fashion 'em together somewhere or another and they I don't know where you've ever hear {D: dilload} or not but the Rollins, the Watkins niece gotten themselves lemon they call it the red lemon you know that stuff's strong as the dickens, it's you got to mix it with water it's good for a lot of things you know We used to use it for bad colds and it's good to doctor your horses with behind the gongs he's put mud in it interviewer: mm-hmm 025: He's put mack red lemon in it to make it hot interviewer: mm-hmm 025: And that's what you'd call that whiskey. And some of 'em will take their whiskey and scorch it They don't know how to make it you know? they don't know how to make it as well in a in a copper outfit. They let in get through hot and scorch it That'll make you sick interviewer: mm-hmm 025: And they'll put some of 'em used to put this ol' legal lye in 'em to make it bead it is {X} interviewer: They put lye? 025: Why? That's illegal {NW} It'll kill rats or anything else them {X} bound, you know. They'd do a lot of things They'd take three They have me have corn now that corn's sprouted ya know They'd take out the corn and put it in the sack and take it to the barns where your horses was and braid up the manure ah heat up the manure and sprout that corn in a few days ya know interviewer: uh-huh 025: And they'd take it to the mill and grind it. and that made the the whiskey work off the beer. They'd first make beer ya know and put that in it. And then they'd work that beer off ya know #1 {NW} # interviewer: #2 uh-huh # 025: whiskey. I never did see nothing made, I used to drink ice water whiskey but I never do. not about anything good or anything made I've seen a few stills {X} They stuck with 'em. jail out here. interviewer: Yeah. 025: But they made it all with their {D: s'country} interviewer: Did they have a name for the bad stuff though? I mean does Do they ever call it anything in particular? 025: Well I don't know, I guess they did. They'd call it white lightning and this other now nothing interviewer: Those are the kinds of words I was wondering about, if you can think of any other ones. 025: oh you know interviewer: I just want the words that people might use there's a ah expression that I heard ah eh splo, have you ever heard that? 025: uh-uh interviewer: Never heard splo? 025: uh-uh interviewer: I've heard that in Knoxville for the {X} {NW} in radiator 025: Well, there's different kinds of {D: Rockateau} They was good whiskey. you'd take the old timers that used to make whiskey They painted out a corn Now then they put sugar and everything else in it to make it run quick interviewer: mm-hmm 025: They's whiskey been made today in {X} but I don't know who is making it. That's the thing people don't say too much about. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: People will make whiskey are dangerous. If you turn them in Most of the trouble we used to have in here was one bootlegger fighting another. One of 'em would go along and make his whiskey and not sell it to minors and Just don't sell it to everyone that comes along. Some people shrewd enough to let them do that and ah {x} daddy he used to tell them not to big orchards up there and he'd make them apples up ya know and let them go independent and when they'd get to a certain stage and then make apple brandy. And now that was good. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: But he never would say that around. He was he was that big man that comes in places where {X} This fellow over here he'd let boys run the money he always seemed troubled Whenever you go and let minors have whiskey and them a getting drunk and getting yourself into trouble Law'll get you quick interviewer: Yeah 025: But one thing of these bootleggers They'd fight one another One of them would getting a little better than the other one but The law stuck pretty close on that There used to be dozens in here During World War one it was socked whiskey's made in {X} no briar's about it My granddad owned a lot of land apparent of course he never say nothing about it you know looked up those apples up there and the cattle and holes up there on the side of that mountain I'd raid better apples like on the mountains better apples and go there and do that interviewer: mm-hmm 025: And Ferris Lee I've known his land {X} making liquor Of course my granddad did nothing loved in it the hood and making it settlers that were living on his land was making port of it #1 {X} # interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 025: Later because the buff whiskey run 'em later and now you could see where they were furnaces had been ya know interviewer: mm-hmm Did they ever have a place oh back around WWI where you would go off and you would put your money down and you would never see anybody and they'd put the 025: Well people would work that interviewer: Is there a name for a thing like that? 025: Now I don't know where there's a name for it now I had an ol' {X} drunk up all this land down through here interviewer: {NW} 025: Cascades and there's a fellow right back of that mountain over there made liquor and ah this old man he knew my uncle he had a whole lot of land he didn't have any children known hate, so what was made was made to him and his wife and then a third of it went back to the {D: Crowston Federation} interviewer: uh-huh 025: And he could sell it and make quick claim files for it you know as long as he lived. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: All this cascades down through here where you come in interviewer: Yeah true 025: You come to know he sold He drunk that all up of this farm of A-J King's right above it Plum on up until you get to this road turns off and a lot of that turns off a way that way. and but he drunk that all up down there interviewer: mm-hmm 025: And this old man had taken over and put it in holler tree. And then my uncle living over there put the mud {NS} {X} saying He'd put the money in that tree and he'd told that old tree knocks interviewer: {NW} 025: And then say they'd get down there and often Joe didn't have any whiskey and said go back now or Doug said he had plenty of it I said where did you get this so quick uncle Joe? and by god he said I got it at Knox interviewer: {NW} 025: Oh what tree? Knox interviewer: {NW} 025: He broke up a {X} through piece of portion of land now. interviewer: Is that right? 025: And there ain't any children you know. Just him and his wife and they used to He's just a drunk. But now he had good whiskey See they made good whiskey None of them made the best you know Mrs. Pearl they made the best whiskey And then there's Berry Latimore He still lives. He's old on {X}} He'd make good whiskey. There used to be a bunch of paddies over here that would make good whiskey. They called it corn whiskey. Them fellas from cage cool used to make good whiskey. Best place to get raw drunk come from Cage cousins. interviewer: What did it cost for a gallon? 025: Well different price than it used to, way back when you could get it four or five dollars a gallon I don't know what it is now. interviewer: {NW} 025: Just depends, some'll seller sell it to you cheaper than others. interviewer: #1 Basically # 025: #2 Get alright # gallons if you get if for two or three dollars. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Well and I don't know. interviewer: It's white and it isn't it has no color 025: It's white whiskey. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Moonshine. We called it. interviewer: yep. 025: Is there whiskey? I'd rather have it down the sheriff Mungun's whiskey. This bonded whiskey doesn't taste like whiskey. Tastes like some {D: drumass} to me. It's for 'em to make you drunk all right. You gon' get drunk. I'm wanting to get drunk I was drunk past dawn. interviewer: eh 025: But it ain't good. it ain't like our old whiskey I've come through Georgia one time down there and I went in there and I was surprised because I've never been whiskey store. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Me and my son went other there and I said ah I want to stop in down there. And I know to stare down through there and you know they look nobody. You never did see no card hanging around there. You said whiskey store never know crowd {X} How many of her got talking to that man {X} He talked to 'em and explained it and showed 'em what kind of whiskey was what. Now I said I am used to moonshine I said what have you got here that would be the next thing to moonshine. He said right here's some whiskey. It's made right here in Georgia. interviewer: okay 025: I bought two carts of it. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: And it was, it was more like our moonshine. interviewer: Do you remember what it was called? 025: huh? interviewer: Do you re-you don't remember the name of it? 025: I don't worries about you know there's plenty all down through North Carolina you know and in Georgia there's whiskey stores every little ways. interviewer: {NW} 025: They'll be one off the that catches traffic going down and they'll be another on the other side to catch it coming up. interviewer: Was it white? the stuff. 025: It was white whiskey just just made in Georgia. Mine showed that it was made in a Georgia in a distillery in Georgia. Now It was now he says now this was the next thing to your moonshine whiskey. interviewer: {NW} 025: It won the heart {X} regular bonded colored whiskey. interviewer: {NW} 025: {NS} back in the old days everybody nearly made whiskey they used it for medicine you know You in {X} my grandpa said in the old days they would get drunk interviewer: uh-huh 025: They just made it for their own use. and drunk it. Thought it would help them when I guess it did. had to even bunker the horses with it when they took to calling and used it for snake bites, or anything. Whiskey good for anything back in them old days they used it for everything. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: {D: jemels want to run a nole} They take that whiskey and scorch it somewhere or another over the stove. Maybe that'll stop your bowels from running. Took a bad cold or the flu {D: or some perdenintal flu} and it just had bad colds and the grip {NW} interviewer: mm-hmm 025: I didn't drink whiskey for that and then claim them the cure. I haven't been to been I don't know, I used to take a lot of it. I'd call the {D: cheb} Take a cold I'd call {D: Polack}. I'd go out here and jade would give me some {NW} had to buy any. I had a politician out there that I would stood behind He'd give me a long court every once in a while of whiskey and I'd take it and get a box of rock candy and put it in that you know not your best couple to smell after ten interviewer: Is that {NW} 025: If it'd do more for you I'd get medicine once time a year as building this road and I reckon the dust done it. resolve myself today. And I went to different doctors I found out last year the doctor that {X} you're allergic to something out here. He said this I said what would it be and He said it could be different things. He said that could've he mentioned dust and I said that's what it is I said that air's coming right out of the West and I said you could write your name with your finger on them chairs and on the wall out there. And I stayed that way and colt I have set up the night. I mean just getting to bed and sit up and sleep and afraid to lay down I'm gonna cough and when it went to raining and stop that dust I'd end up alright. never have I been bothered with it anymore. I had a harsh stack of colds you know. interviewer: How much eh how much rock candy did you put in the fort? 025: oh well there's just a few ounces little box about so long you know interviewer: And that would stop the coughing now? 025: All heading every morning and got the medicine I got the syrups and different kinds and even go to the store and get their syrups, and they just didn't have the benefit but that rock candy would help me. interviewer: Did you ever make that preparation? uh with uh {D: seefer} horses? 025: uh-huh interviewer: Did you ever see them do that for horses? 025: What? interviewer: Uh, use whiskey for #1 horses? # 025: #2 huh? # I heard talk about pouring whiskey in the horse and {X} you know horses take colic from eating too much #1 go work # interviewer: #2 what's the feed? # 025: They'll pour it in the well at the bottom and now a horse is a mean thing to drain {X} drinks cow but horses, I've drenched them it's a hard thing to do. got to get up on the fence or up and away get in a van or a car or something where you can get up and get that horse strangle you to death you know get his head up way up yonder you know and get somebody to hold it there and pour it in out of a long cork bottle man its danger interviewer: uh-huh 025: throw he's all about that bottleneck often for that glass interviewer: yeah 025: but that's all you can use. They're so long-necked. interviewer: #1 Yeah, sure # 025: #2 bottle # I got to taking in I got me some long corked bottles {X} and put a cut a piece of bicycle tube off and interviewer: Yeah that's a good idea. 025: And the put 'em in so much danger interviewer: Alright. 025: but I've used that just on a bottleneck cows you know something to get them every lamb interviewer: uh-huh 025: Help to pull something out. interviewer: you pull a whole court down? 025: Yeah interviewer: and that's called drenching? 025: Well I don't have much whiskey now I don't remember now I never did pour a whiskey in my {D: pearden} tell 'em that {D: pellars that pellars that} tell 'em that poor horse interviewer: Forcing fluids into an animal like that whatever it is, is called drenching #1 I never heard that, you taught me something I'll say it # 025: #2 I have {X} # There's things you can't drench I had some holes one time that got closed on a couple acres down here interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and I didn't want to know about it son of knocked I got to commit but this fellas been working here for me you know and have lived here for twenty years or more with me and he's an awful doctor, Dr. Hall or something I forget what it was now but a poured animal wasn't that many that he poured stuff in They'd die interviewer: mm-hmm 025: so I got the bat and he can wear it on Sunday evenings He got the hunting to see what it was and I found out what it was It was cocoa butter. {X} and he said don't never drench a hog he said, or a dog He said if you drench a hog or a dog He said, you'll strangle them to death every time. So don't never do that and I said I got them hogs out he said get them out of this life. that old sound rude to that get on him and out in the summer and then it would come a-raining these cockabirds would just come up the devil I didn't even know you could poison them I'd heard that but he said you had to have a cockabird to poison interviewer: mm-hmm 025: {X} to do for them hogs He said you can do it just as good as I can I said you get you some Epsom salts and said take a big spoon and he said you can get duck mouth, hog's mouth open and said you take that big spoon and stick it back in there and I guess where you can stick it and then turn the spoon over. He said they won't put in back interviewer: mm-hmm 025: He said that works on their kidneys and he said that's the only way you can get that poison out of 'em I kept 'em out there in the barn for two or three days and they finally got they can get up. but when I'd pull that I'd give them that two or three times a day and they'd just lay their you know piss and just {X} I was working all their kidneys interviewer: sure. 025: to get the poison out of them that's what he said to do only way you could do it was through their kidneys interviewer: Sure. That makes sense. uh when you feed the hog what did you uh um you had an you had an old bucket that had got kinda black on the bottom and what might and uh you might use that to feed the hogs? 025: Well I'd be all your slop buckets you know I guess the best thing you can do is get these here five young paint cans and then maybe {X} to all carry a whole lot in and then you had troughs you know and you could make troughs and you make 'em like that you know and they stop at both ends pour that slop in then interviewer: uh-huh 025: and then troughs you could make your slop people would get bran and this tankage and other stuff and mix it all up together you know and let it sour {NS} make slop fertile interviewer: What is a tankage? uh uh they uh What was the is was now you mentioned it in all farms dis they have a consistency? was it more of a liquid? Or was it? Was it all? 025: It was them interviewer: Them? 025: It was made out of bone. Somethings like that and just a few stuff from the packing house. for it wouldn't much for new stuff I wouldn't ever one time tuck some bottles in there Negra out there running them in the shoe I was helping him when I said what are you doing with the waste on Mary's heart she said "What?" and I said, "What are you doing waste?" I said, "We have to make way of the cats and all hair and all that cat He's been keeping me so {D: daint} so nothing's lost chair He said there ain't nothing lost but the {X} on the trying to save it interviewer: {NW} 025: It's what that had her into something you know {NS} and prove his lamb and island dock or those That told me this is sacks He lived down there. To this this cattle got to by And this fellow's cattle got to die And he said {X} said he couldn't find one another way and said there's one dead and said because he loped them and see what was the matter with it and it was eating that hog hair interviewer: Oh 025: Kill 'em and stop in this kill 'em interviewer: uh-huh 025: And he just went and got it to truck logs you know and thought it would you know richen his land interviewer: uh-huh 025: killed his hogs. interviewer: I see, yeah. 025: and cattle, killed his cattle interviewer: to top it all off 025: yeah my hair up in here's stuck interviewer: What kind of things do you uh did ya uh you have for uh um for cooking? what kinds of uh utensils and pots and pans and things? 025: Ah skillet, iron skillets. big ol' kettles that would hold a gallon or two. interviewer: How those things are 025: lay it on them. and place them in the kitchen and around the fireplace slide a rod across there. hide them kettles fitting ham there on the hook and hang them right over the fire. if we didn't want to cook 'em on the stove just cook 'em over there with the fire in these big ol' iron kettles ain't some like sure he is interviewer: uh did ah did you ah something like ah uh something like a skillet with uh legs on it that you put in down in the fireplace? 025: the oven? I mean the oven that's what people would cut and put there and put that on the coals you know and that porch right there had four legs on it and ah I don't have to go over it people would bake their potatoes anything more than doing that it just would just sit here over the coals interviewer: Did it have a handle on it too? 025: It had little handles like a washer kettle you know stick your fingers in {D:} tongues they had tongues you know you didn't have to take your finger they had tongues that just plug in there you know and got them in there where you wanted to and then the lid it had a handle on the top of it you got take a rag or something and take that up interviewer: Did you call that bar in the fireplace anything? 025: I don't know what to call it but all of this one they made and there used to be one in yonder that and there's one in their that and the kitchen we tore down and had it up our furnace you know we could just hook these kettles on that and cook your beans or whatever you want to of course most people use their side cook stove a lot of people thought that bread baked in this oven down here on the farm was a lot better than it was made in the stove and I guess it was people just have their ways you know interviewer: How about those great big things you use when you're slaughtering hogs? 025: Well, they're eh steel barrels make sixty gallon wooden barrels. settle in then you know and you can put a hog in there and put some blank out here and back it up against something heat your water in a big horse kettle {NS} pour it in that there and get them to certain people that know how tell 'em just how hot to get it if you got it too hot the higher satin and come on it'll get it hot enough you just know how to get it hot. interviewer: Yeah. 025: You can stick them hogs in there and turn 'em over if you times and then change them and stick the other end in there a few times interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and ah you just pull up and take a look or nothing and just scrape that hair off interviewer: I see. That was boiling that, using that hot water, that was just for uh, just to take the hair off? 025: Yeah that was all My dad These fellows here they got to killing hogs for the public in the last few years. and uh people quit killing their own hogs and would just take 'em to them. They would do it so much quicker and much easier and they didn't charge you. They'd come and kill your hogs and take 'em over there and dress 'em and cut them up and bring them back for five dollars. You couldn't get help in to do that you know. And they had something like a bathtub only a whole lot bigger a bathtub or something just like a bathtub only like it was a big ol' arm trunk interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and then they'd put the hogs in that They had the thermometer They could tell just the point of heat to get the hogs They'd kill them's clean most the time's random interviewer: Um did you um ah when you saw a rogue hog would you shoot 'em? 025: yeah, sometimes if you had a gun, if you didn't have a gun you took a ax or a steak hammer or something and knock 'em in the head, all shop, and a lot of times that would join the shooters and go play on the end of their shows They'd take long range man short-rangers of course we go into their shows everybody made the show a real big saucy jam {X} interviewer: The only duty is to slaughter a hog about once a year? or it was more than that? 025: Well in the family we used to could slaughter them in the summer time but {X} we knew all the slaughter through the following year November and December are the best years to slaughter hogs and a lot of times people are out some while I'm out and {D: destin} colds get a few cold nights on me it wouldn't spoil. And sometimes we'd have some awful cold weather in March and we'd always have us one or two to make sausage out of it ya know. Then there's a spring in the air. maybe more Then I'd keep hogs and kill them all until the summer and take them to these here supermarkets, of course they had places to put them you know interviewer: Did had you make anything other than uh, you said you mentioned sausage did you ah did you ever make anything uh with uh uh uh grinding up the meat from the head of the hog? 025: uh sounds meat That's good. #1 {X} # interviewer: #2 how was that # 025: hat grind it all up there and run it through something and then the sausage melts grind it up and that is good I kept thy hap it's real good killing hogs they just send it down here and the grocery stores buy it but it wasn't as good as they used to buy it interviewer: Did you make anything with the liver? of the hog 025: we eat the liver interviewer: Pardon? 025: Most people eat the liver. interviewer: Do they ever grind it up? and make a kind of sausage? 025: There are people who would, crank it you, i think so {X} I don't know what it was {X} or something. interviewer: Did anybody ever? 025: it was good it was good eating It had a lot of iron in it. interviewer: Liver loaf? how was that prepared do you know? 025: I don't know someone else could tell you I don't know enough about what that interviewer: Did you ever ah Did anybody around ever make anything with the blood from the animals? 025: toss the blood interviewer: uh...what? 025: lost the blood interviewer: yeah 025: Shoot a hog and then you stuck in right in the throat. wicker nap went down between his front legs and {NW} and that was it. Hog didn't bleed good did the blood on a big side of it interviewer: uh-huh There were never any people around in the neighborhood or around who um ah who ah used the blood right? 025: no, I don't hear nothing about that interviewer: Where there any German ah Germans in this area? 025: Yeah there's some farming Germans here. out here on the late and the they've property here in Nevada There's a man that lived there that came from Michigan or somewhere him and his boy, his grandson works for him up here They're doing a little {D: demib} over here that's the friends section and ah His wife's a full German but the man's an American I reckon he got here over there and then he work a whole 'nother star interviewer: none of the old settlers though? 025: Oh no German blood {X} interviewer: Mostly Scotts, Irish? 025: huh? interviewer: Mostly Scott-Irish? 025: ah-huh yes different things like that. but there's no German, natural born German. interviewer: No I didn't mean, I just meant you know there ah 025: That's the only German I know of The woman. I knew she's got a sister that out across the mountain down Lowell's creek somebody like that, they're German I reckon one of them {X} is in the army got 'em. Some of 'em come back with Japs and one boy down here that subs her rear without a full blood Jap I'm married I learn England I'm My wife's got a nephew married to a girl in England he brung 'em back here Don't reckon any of them ever bring any niggers back with 'em but this one of them hadn't {NW} interviewer: um they um you talked about that that uh oven that was used did they ever use that for making bread? 025: Yeah interviewer: Is that not what different kinds of bread did ah uh your mother used to make or your wife make? 025: uh Big bread, cornbread interviewer: Ah was there um was the um ah ah how was the corn bread prepared? 025: make it and put it in the you got a big oven here on for cooking a ramp you didn't just put it in the pan any size pan you wanted and put it in the stove take a cat a corner meal and see if they of course now they you know sift in me let's roll and through the mills you know from the old corn mill you had to sift it interviewer: mm-hmm 025: Just make it up make the pans out of it and cut it up any way you wanted to interviewer: Ever made like two kind of 025: loafs you call them or something? yeah I've seen my grandmother do that more often now though we don't cook much bread now, don't like we used to me and her she was just making a small pan and I could pop in or something, I can interviewer: I just wanted 025: you stay when you had work and you just take a big ol' pan you know like to make light of it I used to have a lot of farming and feeing a lot of men some of them something could eat Take a big pan with all of that bread maybe two of them interviewer: ah-huh When when they made it like in these uh in these loaves I wonder if they called them anything other than loaves. 025: I don't reckon they just cornbread interviewer: How about pones? 025: I heard 'em called that and the first light bread I ever hear called pones is light bread interviewer: alright. 025: First have right here there you know and that was the first white bread we ever got you know it was never sliced or nothing like that, people used to make their own white bread women made better bread giving back than this snow hell get yeast you know at the store some where or another and make that bread rise and i made a lot of them First bread that we ever bought you know was soft interviewer: What would you call that brad as opposed to uh you would call that home-made bread what what would you call that you'd call that instead of home-made bread? 025: What? interviewer: The bread that you got in the store? 025: ah, some people called it bum bread and some called it one thing or another and some called it loaf bread interviewer: say bum bread? 025: bum, I hear it called bum bread interviewer: {NW} 025: when it cold when you got it yeah interviewer: {NW} That good, I never heard that before. 025: "people you story and you in have it" people may even go out or somewhere else and find some of that interviewer: Sure. 025: I don't know I hear them call it different things bump bum bread. I don't know what they wore they got the bum of the bum bread. interviewer: Did ah was there was any uh other kind of uh corn maybe just something made with corn meal, salt and water? 025: Yeah people used to make mush that way. I don't do you? people used to help make hominy They'd take this uh corn meal and grind it right coarse you know and make hominy it was good and on the other way they used to take the old corn kernels and they'd take and ah you'd lie or something and another to cut that ah husk it was awful you had to take that hickory thorn {X} grain interviewer: uh-huh 025: They make {D: kapaloptic} bows yeah {D: goven} hail like it's good just like gloven by you need hominy lotion interviewer: Sure. 025: Playing safe with the mild interviewer: Do you call it the same thing if it's ground up? The uh the uh #1 hominy? # 025: #2 {X} # There's all hominy That and and the and the kernel is hominy but they grind it right coarse you know and that is hominy, that is that was good. interviewer: Yeah. 025: You know they call it grits now it's the same stuff that you buy for grits. We buy it and get grits interviewer: said to call that hominy though? until you 025: We called it hominy interviewer: Oh, they're all hominy? 025: Yeah. Kids glad we had no watermelon there and not the old watermelon people would come in there anymore and then {D: Ecker} had a bushel ground in the hominy. interviewer: eh ah Did you mother ever make ah or your your grandma or ever make any kind of uh of uh ah any kind of cornbread that ah she would before she would make ah she would make it before the fire may or put in or put it in the ashes of the fire? Wrap up a piece of cloth around it? 025: Um, do our {D: stakers} that way. interviewer: What's that? 025: I've seen 'em do our {D: stakers} that a-way. interviewer: Alright 025: I don't know that I've ever seen 'em do bread I remember hearing 'em My granddad and them talk about sometimes Red and olden might tell you what that is They called in snow bread or something. But they've never done much exact to the lab His mother can make it. He never did get much success out of that Maybe she can tell you about how that ah snow bread was made. Some way they put snow on it so interviewer: Snow bread? 025: Called it snow bread. interviewer: Was that made with cornmeal? 025: Yeah. But I don't know how it was done. Now interviewer: I'll ask about that. 025: His mother. interviewer: Huh? 025: I guess my granddad's mother used to make it that-a-way. and now used to they would put our standards on sweet potatoes. That'd never cover 'em up but with anything. They just put 'em in the pot and roast them. interviewer: mm-hmm 025: It's a matter if a lot of people caught that-a-way. Take sweet potatoes and cover 'em up in hot ashes. interviewer: Yeah. 025: and peel it interviewer: Did they ever take some corn meal and kind of roll it up in a ball and then and and boil it with greens? 025: I don't know if ever I've seen that, no. Captain now you getting on to the cooking and I don't know much about it. interviewer: Did you have anything you called corn dodgers? 025: Well, yeah. but a corn dodger was just just like used to, people called all kinds of cornbread corn dodgers, interviewer: I see. How about a big piece and you take the skillet and just cover that whole skillet with it an make it about with corn meal batter about that big and make it about oh 025: I guess that's what they called a corn dodger. I heard of corn dodger all my life. It's just a dodger of cornbread. That's that's pretty common you know. People talk about corn dodger. interviewer: Ah-huh. 025: everybody knows what a corn dodger is You don't have to say bread. It's a corn dodger. interviewer: How about something that day to day skillet did they ever call it a hoe cake? 025: Yeah. interviewer: Was that something done? 025: I don't know just what I think hoecake's made out of, cornmeal I assume. I hear about hoecake and I think that's just I think that that was just cornmeal you know. I don't know whether there was any difference between that corn cake and what's something else in it Said they called it hoecake instead of cornbread and it was all about the same bun interviewer: And never wrote what the cornmeal and a little um it had kind of little balls and fry it with fish? 025: Yeah. I don't know what that was called. My wife still fries a whole lot of cornbread and it's you know just me and her interviewer: uh-huh 025: She'll make it out in little cakes and it seems like it's a whole lot better than just the regular I don't know how she does that bread off again. interviewer: I see. 025: I used to make uh little pans you still you have western sale property'll serve 'em to you interviewer: mm-hmm 025: and ah greased here or something and uh these little pans in the whole maybe it does you all big cat and they call them corn muffins but I don't know the difference between corn muffins and cornbread they there was a difference They were just better than corn had pans and the little place where you had them you just put them in you know interviewer: How's that going to hush have you ever heard of those things called hushpuppies? 025: Well I heard them hushpuppies but I don't really know how they are made. Interviewer: The um uh you said the snow bread? Now what did that look like? 025: I don't know. Interviewer: You don't remember? 025: No. Interviewer: Oh. 025: {D: My wife can tell you I don't think that I like when come here} {D: My grandpa want some of it} made and they tried to make it but don't think they had any success. Interviewer: I see. 025: #1 I just # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: don't know. But now I can tell you another thing that was awful good. Interviewer: Okay. 025: They uh {NW} {D: used to they} kill hogs you know. And there was a little ol' lady {NS} lived over here and she'd always come and she'd take certain parts of them hogs guts. {X} We called 'em we called 'em internals now, hog guts. #1 She'd take # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: certain lumps of them {NS} She'd cull 'em clean 'em out turn 'em wrong side out. And that little thing {D: is yours yet at some point or another and there's thing} set a plunger in there you know sort of like the old grease guns. Interviewer: {D: Got it.} 025: And it had a spout on it and fit them guts right over that spout and they'd stuff them full and they'd be about the size of {D: big lanish.} Interviewer: Okay. 025: And then {D: ofs} that kitchen part wasn't sealed. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 And # then uh stir {D: right up where that} #1 stove is. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: And take 'em up there round hang 'em up round that fireplace and kill one of 'em. Well that's the best stuff ever I eat I'd give anything to have some of 'em yet. Oh they was something good. Interviewer: {NW} #1 Like was like? # 025: #2 That one # ol' woman was the only person around here that I ever known could do that. Interviewer: Right. It was like a sausage yeah? #1 {X} # 025: #2 No that's not {D: head of} # sausage {D: put in them guts you know.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: #1 We call 'em # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: guts they called them {X} Interviewer: All right. 025: Us mountain people know them as guts Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 you know. # Interviewer: Did anybody ever just eat the uh the the guts #1 itself? # 025: #2 No # they'd throw the guts in the {D: lotch the lotch} was the lungs I reckon. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They pick and throw them away give 'em to the dogs. Lot of people wouldn't eat the heads and the feet but I always liked the head better. I'd buy a head from somebody every fall. Got one this year. #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Give five dollars. # 025: for hogs and I like {X} Interviewer: Right. Uh the uh the ah ah did the anybody ever eat the the the stomach of the either the cow or of a hog or a #1 or a sheep? # 025: #2 No you # see I don't know whether you know anything about killing hogs or not but the gut the punch is always full of corn you know whatever you fed your hog. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {D: Feed 'em with corn} they just took that out {X} Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 chickens # or something to eat but they never did save that stuff. Interviewer: Would you call it a punch also in a in a in a in a cow? 025: Yeah in a punch. Interviewer: Mm-hmm or in a sheep? 025: In all I reckon all animals that would be the punch. Interviewer: People in north Georgia eat that. They call it punch they they it's #1 {X} # 025: #2 {NW} # you take uh you take in these packing houses they fix that up place to call 'em guts internals internals or Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 something and # they say the niggers just goes crazy about 'em. Interviewer: They call 'em they call 'em chitlins. 025: Chitlins. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. Yeah. # 025: #2 Chitlins. # Interviewer: Right. 025: I've heared that I never did see none of 'em. I guess it'd be good. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 There's # this thing's the rest of it #1 if they're # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: washed and cleaned. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And I don't know why niggers likes 'em better than white people. I guess white people likes 'em didn't get used to eating 'em I never did eat #1 any of 'em. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # I just wondered how widespread that uh uh that was. #1 Now there's # 025: #2 We just # throwed them away and let the dogs eat 'em up. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Now the uh the oth- other kind of meat the uh the what do you call the meat on a on a when you're when you're s- when a hog's been dressed you take that that the the meat between the shoulders and the ham that? 025: That's the middling. Interviewer: Okay now uh that whole thing is the middling? 025: Between the shoulders? Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And the ham? Interviewer: Yeah. 025: The hind part's the ham. Interviewer: #1 Right but that the part # 025: #2 {X} # shoulder. Interviewer: #1 And the part that's in the middle? # 025: #2 {X} # middle is the middling. Interviewer: Okay now how does the middling differ from bacon? That's? 025: That's just bacon. Interviewer: It's the same thing? 025: Bacon. Interviewer: I see um the um uh in a in a a piece of bacon like that what might you call it anything else? 025: No just side of bacon people hang them up and let 'em {D: dry out.} After they salt 'em and first salt 'em salt them down after they got the stuck the salt {X} spring and take 'em out and wash 'em. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Have places to hang 'em have houses to hang 'em in hang 'em up {D: by the end they hung 'em along the pieces.} {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {X} Interviewer: #1 What uh the # 025: #2 {X} # the way people doing that most the people used all the trimmings. Some we used to make the whole shoulder into sausage. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 And # trim the hams and now there's a piece the best part of the hog {D: the softest} part of the hog is the meat along the back bone. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 They # trimmed them back bones and that sticks to the upper part of the {D: those} middling and it's called tenderloin. Now that's something good it's better than ham but there ain't {C: background noise} too much of it cause it's a big hog. There's a whole lot of it you know. Interviewer: Right. 025: And uh that's expensive that is tenderloins but now we know let's take that eat that Interviewer: Yeah. 025: and then the trim the hams all the little part of the middling #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: go in the sausage #1 and all the # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: trimming you see there'd be a lot of trimmings on one ham. Interviewer: Sure. 025: And make that all into sausage {D: but I mean} our folks used to use the whole shoulders. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 We didn't # in the last year because there wasn't so many to feed {D: could happen to many were who came.} Them days you had to have meat for them old timers. They had to have meat. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They couldn't eat without it. Interviewer: Sure. 025: I don't know what to do with if they's living #1 now uh. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} With the cost of things #1 today sure. # 025: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: How bout say just the some uh different kinds of of salt uh salted pork that you you might have uh uh might be used in cooking or has varying degrees of #1 fat. # 025: #2 Well # {D: now you take that's what that middling meat it for} people to take that you know and they cook these green beans cut that up put it in there. {X} Put that #1 middling # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: {D: that there is the other side.} They call that's that's what you call streaked meat. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But it's just bacon that's where the bacon comes from. I don't know where the packing alley gets their bacon but they have to get it there. It's the only place they could get it. Interviewer: Now how about the kind that has practically no lean meat in it at all? 025: Well there wouldn't be too much of that. People didn't kill those they had to be a pretty fat hog you know? The bigger a hog was the more lean the one more streaks #1 {D: there was.} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: All all middlings had some streaks. The lower end of the belly downward coming under now that was thin. That wasn't streaked but that'd all trimmed off and made into sausage. Interviewer: Didn't eat that at all? 025: Well that was made into salt. #1 Well you see # Interviewer: #2 {D: Yeah like you said.} # 025: the head'd be cut off just back between that and the shoulders. {D: well there's some} meat on that head. Well that'd be cut off you know cut out and that'd be went into the sausage. All everything that wasn't ham shoulder. Them shoulders had to be trimmed. Them hams had to be trimmed. And then the whole thing had to be trimmed then or you know well you'd have a whole lotta sausage out of a big hog. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh they ever ate any meat they called either fatback or sowbelly? 025: Well that's all the same. The sowbelly's down under the bottom Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 where I'm # telling you about. #1 Sometimes in # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: old sows you'd have the ticks on there #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: And what was it you called the others? Sowbelly and #1 the? # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Fatback. 025: Well now the fatback was just the middling. And of course up at the top of the middling it was thick stuff next to the back bone it was thicker sometimes it'd be maybe four inches or some big middling be four, five inches thick. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 And the # further down it got it thinner #1 it got. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And the best streaked part was up here in the big part of the Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: of the middling. Interviewer: Uh when you cured bacon uh and before you started to slice it uh you have to cut off that crust. 025: No that there was all that uh that middling was trimmed before it was ever put up. When it was salted down you could put a layer of salt and then you can leave 'em in there. You can pack 'em up there as high as you wanted to. And they was already ready. #1 Then in # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: the spring of the year if you didn't do something the worms might be getting at 'em. Well you take 'em out and wash 'em and put some kind of solution on 'em. borax or something another you know and then hang 'em in the smoke #1 house. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And then you can just go and cut off {D: the ham of} middling as you wanted to. Interviewer: When when you cut it off to eat it didn't you have to trim off part of that edge? 025: Well now there was the skin part now #1 that's what # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: you're talking Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 about. # Interviewer: That's right. 025: People didn't cook that. They'd just take a s- uh uh sharp butcher knife you know and skin that out. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: A woman could cut that awful thin, might get no meat {D: much of that's skin.} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But them skins then a lot of that uh whenever you made your sausage that skin was took off. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And they'd take that and uh make uh pick up and then take them and well heat 'em you know and get the lard Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 Outta # them there skins. Then that skin is good a lotta people like to eat 'em you know that's brickle. Interviewer: Uh-huh call it #1 brickle? # 025: #2 That'll yeah # now that was down where you'd take off and get that you know you wasn't gonna put that skin in your #1 sausage. That all # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: had to be cleaned down you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But the middlings and the hams and what you save still had the skin on 'em you couldn't take that off Interviewer: Right. 025: where you kept it and dried #1 it. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # You call that brickle? 025: {D: Well} that that that them stuff's good and then this stuff that come out of the lard {D: leave it under that lard out in the big porch giving you know.} Well that's {X} you know and they'd call them cracklins. And then take them and take some nutmeg cracklin bread and that was the best bread you'd ever eat. I still buy them cracklins at the store once in a while. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Make crackling bread. {D: Now there was a whole lot better that cook} just mix that all up with the corn breads. Interviewer: #1 All right. # 025: #2 And it # was good. Interviewer: I see. 025: There wasn't no {X} about the hogs in the country. Interviewer: If if meat wasn't uh uh cured or uh or cooked soon enough uh and eh and you couldn't eat it you might say it uh? You mentioned before when you talked about those sows and boars that the the meat was strong but how bout meat that was uh turning? 025: {D: The what?} Interviewer: You know it was getting bad. 025: Well you had to watch that you know if you'd put enough salt on meat {D: and it still rotted} never would go bad but a lot of times if you didn't salt it down your hams would people kept their hams you know and there's uh in that {D: yard there} first thing you knowed your meat might damage in there. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 And we've # lost 'em that way. and uh I used to sell a lot of ham. And a man that buys ham and a man that knows ham and takes something like a icepick and stick it down in there and smell of it and if it's spoiled it'll show it on that pick. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: On an icepick or anything else #1 sharp. # Interviewer: #2 Oh. # 025: {X} Interviewer: And uh 025: It's right in the joint and bones where it starts to spoil. Interviewer: I see yeah now if if what you're speaking of of of butter would you say the same thing with butter that it's it butter when butter begins to? 025: Oh butter won't it'll just get old, #1 strong # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: get old and #1 strong # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 not like that # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: spoiled it just get old and strong. Interviewer: You never #1 {X} # 025: #2 Now meat'll # spoil. Interviewer: #1 I see # 025: #2 And then # we have had the rats eat into the heart of a ham. We used to in our later years we got to sugar curing that meat take brown sugar you know and one thing and then and wrap it here and in wrap it up into paper and then more paper and {NW} and then put it in the white sack and hang it up. #1 That was # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: a whole lot better than the old way of doing it. That's the best curing you could we ever got a hold of. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh sometimes you wouldn't have several of them hanging in there. Maybe a dozen of them you wouldn't notice it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {D: And we have went in there and get a hams and} a rat had been in there and ruined the whole ham you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And a lot of times if they don't take salt good don't take that it'll spoil. You hear of a lot of people losing a ham of meat. Interviewer: Mm. 025: Course a ham of meat a big loss now wasn't too bad a loss then. Interviewer: #1 Sure. # 025: #2 Still # got twenty-five or thirty cents a pound for it. {C: background noise} And I finally got to getting a dollar a pound. {X} Interviewer: What about milk when it starts to turn? 025: The what? Interviewer: Milk. 025: What about #1 it? # Interviewer: #2 When # when milk begins to to get um uh well first it gets uh gets when it starts to get thick. 025: Well is you talking about churning milk or just ordering a sweet milk? Interviewer: Well uh the milk that the thick sour milk #1 that you might. # 025: #2 Well the # milk that you churn that's the cream that rises on it but you're talking about {X} Uh it'll blink if you don't keep it cool in certain storage it'll blink and you just you can't stand it you just Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: can't eat it. But the churn and then that buttermilk well when they use that buttermilk you know and that bread Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Good to drink too. Interviewer: #1 Now # 025: #2 I'd still # like to buy a quarter half a gallon of buttermilk once in a while to drink. Interviewer: Well how bout that thick sour milk that you keep on hand and that gets thick and sometimes #1 {X} # 025: #2 Now that's # where the butter come out of. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And you see you strain the butter then the cream comes to the top of the #1 jar. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: And then you save that cream and and churn it. And then you get the butter and then once you left the milk isn't buttermilk it's a sour milk. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {D: It has to grudge you know.} Interviewer: Okay now what do you do with it when it {D: crusts}? 025: Well it's just it's just use it to make bread and stuff out of. People used to {D: up and then now they'd} feed it to the hogs #1 or something. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # Uh-huh. 025: {X} to put that kind of stuff #1 but the most # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: of the buttermilk was uh we used to have a lot of cows and a lot of milk. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Now a lot of times more than {D: we could even be the one} wasn't no sale for it just have to give it away. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Give families that didn't have a cow a lot of the time. {X} {D: I'd just help you out on your hogs they didn't get that quick on milk.} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Now the the people uh people didn't did uh did did the people ever eat the cruds? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Did people ever eat the cruds? 025: Cruds? Interviewer: Eat the cruds yeah. 025: No I don't think so that'd just get cruddy. Interviewer: #1 Uh yeah. # 025: #2 You know {X} # Interviewer: Yeah. 025: Run. #1 together kind of. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # #1 Well I'm thinking about your # 025: #2 Hog stuff. # Interviewer: Is that now is that the same thing clabber? 025: Yes clabbered milk. Interviewer: Uh-huh but nobody n- nobody uh used #1 clabber milk? # 025: #2 Well they # make cheese out of it. #1 Make # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: cottage cheese out of that now. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. Yeah. # 025: #2 That's what you got that's what. # Interviewer: Now what's the difference between the the cruds wouldn't be the same thing as cottage cheese? 025: Well you make it out of cottage cheese you take that crudded milk and I don't know what you do to it my wife makes some. {NW} When we have milk had milk. It makes awfully good cheese {D: because I don't know just how we do it with all of it.} Then that uh stuff that comes out of there that milk that makes awful good hog feed and then what's left in there the cheese she can tell you how to do that I #1 don't # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: know. But I know it's awful good and I know that's the kind of #1 stuff they # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: made it out of, that butter milk after crud. Interviewer: Yeah. Did you ever hear that called smearcase? 025: Have uh #1 called what? # Interviewer: #2 S- smearcase. # 025: uh-uh. Interviewer: Or uh did but uh when you had e- uh when you had a lot of that if you had more than you you needed you'd you'd say you'd feed it to the uh? 025: The hogs. Interviewer: Feed it to the hogs. #1 Uh. # 025: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: Um uh what was the the uh the utensils that you used for eating were they any different when you were small? 025: #1 What? # Interviewer: #2 Or? # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # Uh the things you'd use at the table you have a plate and then the things you'd use in your hand. 025: Knives and forks or what you talking #1 about? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah that's # right that's just what I mean and then the thing for soup would be a? 025: Spoon Interviewer: Yeah now were they any different than from the kind you use today? 025: No they're all just about the same. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Knives and forks and spoons. Interviewer: And then uh 025: #1 I use a # Interviewer: #2 uh. # 025: spoon yet to eat with more than I do a knife and fork. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 {X} # Beans and something like that I don't know I just get used to it #1 still # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: use a spoon. Interviewer: Sure. 025: I wouldn't do that I guess if I went anywhere. We don't never go nowhere to eat. But I just eat like {X} Interviewer: #1 Uh sure sure. # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: {X} 025: But he'd rather use a spoon a lot of times than a fork. Interviewer: Whatever comes handy yeah? 025: #1 Yeah yeah you just # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: get used to these things you know it's hard to get out of your system. Interviewer: All right. Uh. 025: It's awful hard to get the raising out of you. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 You # know that. Interviewer: Sure. Certainly. Uh my wife keeps telling me. #1 {NW} # 025: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: {NW} Uh it what in uh uh washing dishes uh when the to uh to get the the soapy water off say she has to uh hold the the the soapy dish under clear water. 025: I reckon but you know used to people made their own soap. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Make it out of lye. Ashes and lye. Make their own soap. Oh it'd sure would clean stuff. {D: Things have let} a long ways people them days you know they had to well we'd get a old woman to wash for us only after our children was born. Interviewer: Right. 025: Way back yonder they'd get great big {D: gloss long} blocks you know. We'd call 'em battling blocks. Then lay the clothes on that and take a big paddle and beat 'em out. Then later on we got the washboards. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Then later on we got the washing machine. Now then we've got the washer and the dryer. Interviewer: Yeah. Uh battling is is that a battling stick looks 025: #1 sorta like # Interviewer: #2 No not a # 025: battling stick just a big ol' paddle Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: thing. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: Lay it on that clean block you know #1 and just # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: give it a beating. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. But you get the soap out of something you have to put it in clear #1 water. # 025: #2 Yeah. # Yeah you have to now we wash on the washing machine. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And we've got to run two big tubs of cold water over here you #1 know to rinse # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: them clothes after they go through the ringer. Interviewer: #1 What are you doing to them? # 025: #2 Waiting on the dryer. # dryer. Interviewer: Yeah. After you run them through the ringer you have to do what? 025: How you see {D: you won't} put 'em in here and #1 put # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: your wash powders and stuff in here and then you turn your electricity on, let that warm water in. Get that warm water and then after they clothes is clean clean enough well you run 'em through that ringer {D: then out back that way} we've got two wash tubs that sets there you know with clear water cold water. Put 'em into that. And then they have to be rinsed again you know #1 through the # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: dryer again. and then hung on the clothesline or somewhere to dry. Interviewer: What do you call a piece of the uh the rag or cloth that you use for for uh uh getting the food off the dishes? 025: That's a dishrag. {NW} Interviewer: And the kind of thing to dry the dishes? {NW} That's what you use you know you'd use a a dishrag or some kind of clean something. Mm-hmm. 025: Dry these dishes with 'em {D: they ain't gonna do it aren't gonna wash no dishes.} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. #1 Now # 025: #2 If # you just take a clean cloth you'll have a dishrag. I guess that was to wash 'em with you know #1 a # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: cleaner a cleaner rag to dry 'em with you #1 know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Something like a clean towel or clean something people used to used to {X} get our meal and flour and stuff in cloth bags you know. Sometimes anywhere from twenty-five to a hundred. Seems like that's what women used to make their dishrags and things out of. Interviewer: What they call uh call the ones made of paper around here? #1 Bag? # 025: #2 That # I don't know. They call them napkins reckon. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now these uh I mean you talking about bags uh the #1 uh. # 025: #2 Talking # about what? Interviewer: Bags. 025: Oh. Interviewer: Uh the um the kind that say go to the store and #1 get? # 025: #2 Oh # {D: that won't be bad} call 'em bags some people call them pokes and things bags is the proper name I hear no {D: man 'til he had a boy.} California there's an old farmer lived over on Walden's Creek and he went to see his boy in California in his old age. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Had a little grandson. The old man and the boy went over there to the store and he told him he want a poke of candy for that {D: both.} He didn't know what a poke of candy was. They didn't know what the poke meant you #1 know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh sure. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 025: This little boy told the old man he said that's a bag he said take a bag of #1 candy. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: I got 'em a bag of candy they didn't know what a poke was. Interviewer: Yeah what were those made what were the pokes made up though? 025: Paper. Interviewer: They just? 025: It's always just just paper #1 bags you know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # And how bout a a a great big bag that you might use uh that you might get uh well you might carry a put a hundred pounds of potatoes in? 025: Them's tow sacks I guess you're talking #1 about. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: But they used they got to now fertilize. When I first began to buy fertilize there's an ol' big uh fertilize {D: deed 'em up} an old big uh uh tow sacks you know that hold two hundred pounds. Then later on they got to putting uh fertilize in cotton bags you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And then later on now then they're putting them in plastic bags. You can take that fertilize now in these plastic bags and lay it out here in the rain. It'll lay out there all year. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: #1 The plastic bags won't # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. I see. # 025: leak and they won't let. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: And then the meal. Is there another kind that the meal would come in? 025: Well now the meal is still uh coming in the paper bags. #1 Meal and # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: flour still in the paper bags. Interviewer: When you went to the mill um the um what what did you call the amount you'd you'd usually take to the mill at one time just uh? 025: {D: I headed the pan} I don't know how you had to take it. Most of the time that uh man would take and he'd {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {D: Follow him he'd} get s- these big {D: grass like soaked seekers could come in 'em.} And they'd hold two or three bushel in big long heavy cotton bags. And they'd put that on there and tie it. Throw it across their horse sometimes and throw it in front of 'em sometimes the sacks would be long enough so they could throw it and sit on it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Take that that away well if it's somebody carrying it they'd come in a smaller bag you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Maybe kids come. They'd have a little flour pokes or #1 something about # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: twenty-five pound #1 bag. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 025: Flour used to come in twenty-five you didn't see no five and tens nothing less than twenty-five. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And then the fifties and the hundreds. Interviewer: Was was something like that ever called a chance or a grist? 025: #1 A what? # Interviewer: #2 A # grist or a chance. 025: uh-uh. Interviewer: #1 Uh or a turnip? # 025: #2 I never # I know of it as just sacks. Interviewer: #1 You ever call it a turnip? # 025: #2 {X} # sacks and bags. Interviewer: How about a turn of corn? 025: Well now the turn of corn would be a sack of corn. What we're talking about #1 that would # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: be a turn. They'd call that a turn. Interviewer: All right. 025: And that is the miller's job of {X} to go and {D: and man'd come} he'd take his corn off and do some weight it and in the old times they just measured it in the bushel and they took a gallon out of the bushel to grind your corn. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And then then they had a big box for the {X} meal come out in. And two nails drove in there and it's {D: I think a} sack carrying and they've got meal and they had a big old paddle with a place cut out in it for your thumb, one for your hand. And dip that up to put it in that sack. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 025: #2 {X} # Put it back on the horse and send 'em on down the road. Interviewer: I see. Now if uh when you were when you were uh uh putting the wood in when you had a uh in the when you are starting a fire or something maybe with a stove or with a fireplace the amount that you could carry like this you just call that a? 025: {X} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {D: You know and you know I would} take your stove wood and Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 have a # box. Have a box behind #1 the stove # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: well we've still got one and you know. And the firewood {D: was the general room and} just bring it in, lay it on the porch. Interviewer: Would you be more likely to call that an armload or an armful of wood? 025: Well I don't know people'd call it either one and know what you're talking about armload or armful. You'd say I'm about to get load of stove wood or load of firewood. Interviewer: If you were hauling something in a wagon back and forth and then maybe the last the last one you know the last load wasn't completely a full load would you have a special name for that? 025: I think you might say just a half of a load or #1 part of # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: a load or something like #1 that. # Interviewer: #2 Did you ever use # something like a a a jag or a chance? 025: Well I've heared that used but that wasn't too common. Interviewer: Which word? 025: A jag. Interviewer: #1 For a for? # 025: #2 Heared # that used #1 now. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # For does that mean #1 Is that what? # 025: #2 A jag # of wood or a jag of {D: meal} or jag of something not made of wood. Interviewer: Okay. 025: Now that was eh that was the meaning of that was small amount. Interviewer: Okay. Now we talked about about uh about the dish towels and dish. How about the thing you might put soap on when you are washing your face? 025: {NW} Well I don't know what this called back then. Interviewer: Well what do you call it now? 025: Towels. #1 towels. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # now that's just to dry with. 025: Yeah. Interviewer: But I'm thinking about the thing that's wet that you? #1 Small. # 025: #2 Well # I'd call it a washrag or something like that or. Interviewer: And the place where the water comes in the kitchen at that at the sink? 025: {D: Centered and} faucets. Interviewer: Yeah. And how about on the side do you have one of the side of #1 the house? # 025: #2 Yeah # Them spickets. We call them spicket. Interviewer: Okay. 025: We have one out there. Interviewer: #1 How about on a # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: barrel? 025: A what? Interviewer: On a barrel. 025: Well they had uh used to they had a little ol' thing there. They had faucets. They're sorta like spickets go. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 Turn 'em # on used to they was wood. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And get uh {D: have them} cider barrels when I was a boy they'd bring us some kind of a cider to the stores and sell 'em. {D: Need a little gag} bag or kegs would be maybe twenty gallons around something like that then set 'em on the counter. And they had a wooden thing that stuck in there and it was all wood. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 {X} # Turn it here you know just like the spicket. And get it out it was made dif- #1 different. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: Then later on when they got to making the steel rounds #1 they # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: {D: got to} for oil and things like that they'd have spickets just like you've got #1 out here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: you know to get your water. Interviewer: Now with this uh with the uh piping you have now though in the winter time do you ever do you ever have any trouble with that with when it gets cold? 025: Yeah we have to be careful now if if you don't uh drain the pipes now our pipes {D: done some spring} down there. And uh the house has normal heat from the kitchen yonder to the bathroom. We have trouble there. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But never let it, it's froze a few times. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: So I've got a way there where I can go down there you know and cut the water off from the house and drain it. #1 And that # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: takes the water out of the pipes if it's zero weather #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: because they're the pipes from the bathroom and yonder is copper. And uh it's a hard job to get anybody to fix things like that and I just {X} advantage of it and drain them pipes and we catch up enough of water to do us Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 {X} # {D: follow up but then their springs open we just} stand there and #1 carry it up # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: rather than to have froze back. A lot of people neglects 'em and lets 'em freeze and bust. Then they have trouble now it gets down to ten {C: background noise} fifteen below zero here sometime. #1 And them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: things is gonna freeze and freeze pretty hard. Interviewer: Mm-hmm sure. 025: Well now people that's got uh new houses like modern houses like my son-in-law's here now where your kitchen {D: you can go out to this} uh heat just the kitchen's the next door there #1 you see. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: The houses is tighter and all and and they've got {D: they're in closer in a well.} Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 And the # wells out here you know they run it right out of the ground and right then up through there. #1 Then they don't # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: have too much trouble. Them kind of people don't. But our big trouble is for being yonder {D: that the} see all that water coming from the same direction Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 from # there to the bathroom. {D: unless} of course we can put a heater in here the bathroom won't freeze but that heat don't heat under the floor. The floor the the pipes is rot. #1 this big # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: uh burlap bags {D: put 'em on through.} But uh sometimes {D: it'll freeze and we have let it} #1 freeze. # Interviewer: #2 Is that # burlap bag just the same thing as a tow #1 sack? # 025: #2 Yeah that's # that's uh just same thing, burlap. But some is thicker than others you know. Interviewer: You were talking about molasses before and lard before. Molasses and lard in a store do they were they when you when you go now you uh probably made your own but if you uh well did you ever see it in a store where they have the molasses or lard up there if you're gonna buy {X} #1 {X} # 025: #2 Well now # when I was a boy they brought lard in barrels, wooden tubs. #1 Then later # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: on they got five six gallon tin cans. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And molasses was a thing you couldn't see you had to put them in if you ever sold any you'd have to put them in glass fruit jars #1 or something like that. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 025: #1 When # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: I was a boy sugar come in barrels. They'd have big barrels forty fifty barr- forty fifty pound barrels. The sugar lives in old barrels still around here. Then they had a can- a hoop from the canvas and set that down over that you know to keep the flies out {X} Interviewer: What was that that they had over it you said? 025: They'd just get uh some kind of c- canvas you know Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: thin and and fix it around this hoop that'd come off the top of the barrel. The barrel had wood wooden heads you #1 know but that # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: to take that wooden head out #1 one end or # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: the other of it. And then they'd put that over it to keep the flies out. Interviewer: Uh-huh was there just one of those on a barrel or several? 025: Well there's several of them hoops but there'd be one at the bottom to hold the there to hold the wood part in you know and up there well if this one up here at the top is the one they'd take off you see #1 and then # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: put that canvas on it and then just tack it right back like it'd come off #1 you know with the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: wood part and to be took out so they could get to the sugar. Interviewer: I see. #1 I see. # 025: #2 And the # lard was in big tubs. And then they got to putting the lard in in uh mostly in tin cans about six gallon #1 cans # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: I guess and then people would buy cans of lard and then they'd use them cans to put the molasses in. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now the uh if you were to pour sugar or a liquid from a large container into a smaller one. Say into a nar- well you were gonna pour something you were gonna pour something in one of those narrow uh those long neck quarts you were talking about. What did you use #1 to? # 025: #2 Funnel. # Interviewer: #1 # 025: #2 # Interviewer: I'm sorry? 025: Funnel. Interviewer: Yeah. And then where you're driving horses uh say in a buggy you have to? 025: Whoa. Interviewer: Yeah. Now what about with did you ever drive those steers or did or is that after you were pretty well #1 grown? # 025: #2 Well I # drove steers a little when I was a boy but I was pretty young. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 I used to # have a {D: pair of two of} twin steer. Interviewer: Right. 025: when I was a pretty good size boy, I wasn't too big and I had a wagon. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 Ride them # to the store and about. Interviewer: What did you use to to urge them on? 025: Get your hickory. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Just get you a long switch or get you a whip. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 Whatever # you want to get. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But they had regular buggy whips you know they were for your buggies. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: {D: They didn't cost any more.} The best ones would cost a dollar and they have brass brackets around 'em Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 The best ones # do. {D: You can get one of these sets for a dollar.} Somebody'd steal 'em from you if you went into another neighborhood. #1 Oh sure would # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: go over on Walden's Creek and the Walden's Creek boys would come over here and they'd steal from us and we'd go over there and then they'd come back over here. They'd take their their stuff away from 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {X} Interviewer: Yeah. Uh with uh uh on uh long neck uh uh uh cork bottle that thing you stick in the top? 025: That's a cork. Interviewer: Okay #1 uh. # 025: #2 They're # caps now. Interviewer: #1 Yeah # 025: #2 You don't # see them old corks anymore. Interviewer: Would you only call it a cork if it was made out of cork? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Would you if it were made out of metal or something you wouldn't call it #1 a cork? # 025: #2 It's just a # cork. It's made out of something I don't know. {X} Interviewer: #1 {X} Could it be a rubber cork? # 025: #2 {X} # I've got some of them ol' corks here but they're just corks they're not rubber I don't know what they are. {NS} But now then you fill {NW} them old bottles had corks. {NW} These old bottles you know. #1 Now then # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: they don't make no such stuff as that they've all got screw tops on 'em or something. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now {NW} you seen the little musical instruments about this long that you blow on? 025: Well that's French harp. Interviewer: Uh-huh how about the one you #1 {X} # 025: #2 Well that's # a Jew's harp. Interviewer: Yeah okay. 025: {D: Well them fellas could take them things} {X} #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Was there were there were there a lot of uh a lot of music #1 uh # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: uh in in #1 the valley? # 025: #2 You said # {D: stuff like that.} Banjos. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Most of it was was banjos, fiddles. {X} fiddlers. It's more banjos than fiddlers when I was a boy than anything. Then they finally got the guitar you know and these other instruments. These old timers all learned on the banjo and the fiddle. Interviewer: Can you remember the names of some of the the good the the the the some of the best ol' banjo uh players? Do you remember any of them just their names? I'd be interested. 025: Well I don't know. {X} nearly anybody back them days you know could pick a banjo. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {X} banjo pickers. My wife's uncle Lawson. He is a good fiddler. And uh most that a lot of people could pick a banjo and play a fiddle I don't know what it was they could do better on that they could any other instrument. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: But they never would use that stuff in the church them days. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {X} They had an organ. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 They # used in the church and then later on {D: begin to get} pianos you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. #1 Do they use 'em? # 025: #2 At some # churches they don't let 'em take the music in you know but they don't much in this country that's how that's never got started here. It started over here at a little church one time. Folks from another community down here they were making music and and uh the pastor he went over there and was in there making that music and he resigned and quit 'em right there. Interviewer: Is that right? 025: {D: Yeah.} Interviewer: They {X} banjos and? 025: {X} Interviewer: {X} 025: {X} {D: causing any difference in it} but some people don't look at it that way #1 you know it's just # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh sure. # 025: the way they've been brung up mostly. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: He wouldn't have it. Resigned and quit 'em. Cause they had that music there without his consent. Interviewer: Let me ask uh yesterday we were talking about plows and harrows. Did you ever hear of anything called a gee whiz? 025: Yeah. Interviewer: What was that? 025: Well it was some kind of little ol' {D: s- harrow} or plow I don't know just how to describe it I don't know just exactly what {D: it what it look what it} called it but that ol' gee whiz {D: I haven't heared that in a long.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: I think that was a little ol' harrow. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 I don't # {D: what uh.} had a lever in there you know and you can spread it. Had teeth in it and it's pulled by horse just like a one horse Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 plow or something. # #1 I think # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 025: that's what they #1 called a # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: gee whiz or {D: there were there'd} someone called it a cultivator. Interviewer: Uh-huh it wasn't a swing tooth though it wasn't just a? 025: No that was um it was just {NW} teeth with wooden spring teeth. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But now they've got these spring teeth that they use and they're pretty handy. They use on tractors. {X} there wasn't much of that used on horse #1 probably like them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: spring stuff. Interviewer: I see. 025: But they using a lot of 'em now. But I believe these little ol' things is what they call a gee whiz or some people did and some called 'em cultivators. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. So it's a kind of cultivator #1 then? # 025: #2 Yeah # You could s- put that thing widen it out you know. There's about three sets of them and had a spring in there and you could move that lever you know and you can draw it up in close rows or you can stretch it out you know in Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 in a # wider row. Interviewer: Mm. 025: I used to have {D: them} I ain't got {D: nary} now don't know what become of the last one. I'd love to have it. Interviewer: When you saw wood something you are gonna saw a log and you put it on a say an X frame like that. {NW} Remember what you call that? #1 {X} # 025: #2 Well now # some the people'd make 'em out of two by fours or two by sixes or something and most {D: of people'd} back them days would just drive a couple stakes in the ground and nail 'em together {D: nothing like that and} lay their wood up in it. Interviewer: What did they call that then? 025: Saw rack. Interviewer: And did you ever you know these kind you see out on the roads they're an A-frame they might use 'em to to well you can use 'em to make scaffolding and you could and also you use 'em out on the highway to to detour traffic. They sometimes hang #1 {X} # 025: #2 Well # that was called uh I don't know what you're talking about that was called uh People, carpenters use #1 'em. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Called horses #1 sawhorses yeah. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Sure. 025: I don't know what they call 'em out on the highway but Interviewer: #1 Well that's # 025: #2 They # {D: stop 'em} #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 to block # 025: roads but they're made just like these here sawhorses. You know carpenters take them you know I've got a set of them out {X} give 'em to me. And uh {D: I used to when I had them old ones} and uh you can take them you can use them to get up on you're painting your house you can lay a two by six or something on it and get a way on up yonder 'til you can get to have to get a ladder after a while you #1 know then if # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: you're selling um planks then well you can just lay 'em down on that and put a knee on it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {D: drop 'em off or you} #1 know with # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: with your hands or something. {D: People start to using} power saws now. {D: We don't use cross cuts anymore.} But that was back {D: in the day when we would rust 'em} used to then when we'd go out in the woods to saw a tree, just go out there and saw it down you know and then prise it up and put a log under it and saw off until you got back to that log and then saw and back move it again. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Cut you a big prise pole {D: two foot two pound can} Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 hoist up # most any kind of a tree or cut it in limbs 'til you could hoist it. Interviewer: Uh-huh now with the the kinds of um any any of these uh uh tools uh that you had you had to keep 'em sharp what what did they use for instance with a scythe? Uh you know uh uh to keep it sharp something you hold in your hand. 025: Well you could take it to a grindstone and grind it or you can take a file and you had regular whet rocks to do that with. Interviewer: What's a file made up of is that you mean metal file? 025: Well that's a metal file you know people use that to sharpen their saws. There's files for different things. There was big files there's little files there's round files there's three quarter files. the three quarter files {X} used hand saws or something {D: wide.} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: These other files would file your axes your {X} or whatever. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: If you wanted to sharpen 'em axes {D: were mostly and} and uh then the saw you'd use mostly a whet rock on that. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: But you can grind 'em first {D: and then begin to get them} more you take that saw {X} take that saw and then give it a lick on this side and a lick on that. Interviewer: Uh-huh. {NW} 025: {NW} Interviewer: What do you use to sharpen your straight razor? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Your straight razor. 025: A leather strap. You ever see one? Interviewer: Yeah razor the yeah the razor strap yeah I've uh. 025: Now then everybody used 'em don't use 'em anymore very few people use straight razor now. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Using these {X} razors or #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 electric razor. # 025: I never did use an electric razor I use see my boy he {X} course he works in a place where he has to shave everyday you know. Interviewer: Sure. 025: I don't shave but about twice a week. {NS} Interviewer: I only shave when I have to myself. {NW} Uh when uh when you're uh did you ever build a thing for your kids when they were small uh uh maybe take uh uh a board and make it go up and down and. 025: Yeah they call them seesaws. Put 'em across one of these things you're talking #1 about through the # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: crack of an old rail fence or over a log #1 or something. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Did they ever have anything they called a ridey horse? 025: Yeah. I'll tell what that was called that you drive a stake up up out here somewhere or another Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 then # put it through the stakes something like that on it and bore a hole in it, take a screw wood screw or something or drive in there and then they'd get on it you know and instead of going up and down they'd go round and round. #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: I forget what they call them what did you say it was? Interviewer: Well that there I asked about a ridey horse. #1 {X} # 025: #2 Well that was # {X} something like that's what they called it. #1 But this here # Interviewer: #2 Or # 025: one on one end and #1 one on the # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: other going up and down now that was seesaw was they #1 called that. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Was that other one called a flying jenny? 025: Something like that they'd #1 call it. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Merry go round or #1 {X} # 025: #2 Now a flying # jenny I believe is what they called it. I know we used to have one out here for my younguns. They'd get on that and of course you're just a gathering place here for younguns and. Interviewer: Sure. 025: They'd all gather up around here. Interviewer: What are other kinds of things that kids play on like that? 025: Yeah. Some had 'em and some didn't. Interviewer: All right. 025: And they'd tie a chain or rope or something up in a tree and call that a swing. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Then later on people got to taking uh tying an old automobile tire you know that made a good #1 swing. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # Say uh uh did they ever make uh did you ever do anything with a limber take a long plank maybe buy one of the uh uh these one by wides and and and put it on uh and suspend that and they'd bounce up and down on it. 025: Yeah I've seen that done. Interviewer: Have a name for that sort of #1 thing? # 025: #2 I # forget what they call that I know what you're talking about I've seen it but I don't know. I don't remember what they called it now. Interviewer: Now when uh when you had uh did you ever ever have a coal stove? 025: #1 A what? # Interviewer: #2 A # coal stove. 025: Yeah we had one until we got this. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {X} Interviewer: What did you call that little thing you mighta kept now you probably had a coal pile outside. What did you call that little little container that you'd keep next to the stove? 025: To carry coal in #1 it? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Coal bucket. {NS} I've got some of them here. Interviewer: Yeah. You ever called it a coal pot or a coal 025: #1 Uh it's a # Interviewer: #2 stove? # 025: coal bucket. Interviewer: Okay. 025: That's all ever I heared anybody call it. Interviewer: And the thing with one wheel that you use out when you're gonna move manure around or something has two handles? 025: The what? Interviewer: Well maybe you you might fill it up with sand you shovel sand #1 {X} # 025: #2 That's # wheel barrow {X} sitting out #1 there. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 025: And these fellas that brings you your furniture to you they've got them little ol' things they call 'em dollies or you know what I'm talking about they're just little ol' things you can set a stove or or refrigerator on 'em Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 and they # can climb right up the steps with 'em you know. Interviewer: {X} 025: Call them dollies I don't know where they got the dolly part. Interviewer: Uh-huh yeah well the uh you were talking yesterday about uh uh mentioned that this that this uh stove here burned uh um 025: Kerosene or coal oil #1 we always # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: used to call it coal oil but they list it now as #1 kerosene. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Did did you ever make uh a lamp just with a rag and a bottle or a can just um some kind of a makeshift lamp? 025: I've seen that done I don't know where I did back {X} we got electricity that's all we had lamps coal oil lamps you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But I've I've seen that {X} {D: stick a rag in there you'd get} just like the wick in a {X} Interviewer: Yeah. 025: in a sto- in a lantern or stove #1 or I mean a # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: {X} But their oil will go on up #1 and burn # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: but it's sort of dangerous to have it out in the open. Interviewer: Yeah. Did you have any any uh did you call that anything in particular? #1 That kind of a lamp. # 025: #2 {X} # don't know that I ever did. But I've seen that. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Don't know why unless they didn't have no burners no {X} or something but now used to people had trouble with them oil lamps and they had uh sometimes you'd get your {D: middle of the oil would} run down in 'em and {X} I've seen 'em here in different places have to pull 'em out in the yard, they'd blow up. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 025: Something get wrong with the burner you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And the oil instead of the fire staying up here in the burner it'd be down in the lamp. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see yeah. 025: And they finally invented the thing on the burner when you can turn it off somewhere or another. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 {X} # Used to had people had to watch that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: I've seen 'em here I've seen {X} get 'em made to throw 'em out in the yard {X} if they'd get that burner out throw it out in the yard you know then they'd get out in there and bust the lamp. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: The spot in the lamp. Interviewer: Did you have a lot of fires in uh people's houses and uh 025: #1 Yeah it took house # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: {X} Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Yeah in this kind of a lamp you have uh this thing up here is this the called uh 025: Now that's just a fuse I mean #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {D: the lick of that's} electricity you just pull that #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 The # thing you unscrew though. #1 the thing you change. # 025: #2 Oh that's # bulb I guess. Interviewer: #1 Yeah that's called yeah. # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Um {NS} now the uh uh do do do you do much fishing? 025: I don't I used to go fishing a little I don't anymore Interviewer: #1 Where where did you do that? # 025: #2 {X} # {X} down in this creek it used to be a big fisherman's creek. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Did 025: Carps big fish and then later on they got to putting {NS} rainbows and for those who'd get 'em and turn 'em loose they wouldn't last long. {X} catch 'em up before they ever go anywhere. That's just a regular old carp creek. {D: Um} carps fish it likes muddy water. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Rainbows and them good fish comes up rivers and clear stream #1 down here in # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: {D: this river} mountain country or rainbow country. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Get out here in that ol' river they've got uh {D: little ol' bat like mouths.} they used to down at that {D: cannon factory} And things that lay around there you know and eat {D: falling peas and falling stuff} they'd run out there you'd get there at what {D: they called then s- something or another and kind of the} white belly fish it's pretty good fish. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: You just go out there and catch 'em {X} I don't know what {X} I reckon need a river and get on the creek {D: doesn't mean apart.} And let you fish at season. You just got to catch your limit. They don't Interviewer: They have anything they call hog mollies? 025: Any what? Interviewer: Hog mollies they have kind of a little 025: #1 Fish? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Mollies or hog mollies. 025: Seems like I've heared that name. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: It used to be a fishing district wouldn't get too big but they was awful good they'd call 'em {X} get pretty big. Interviewer: They have kind of a flat head? 025: {NW} I don't know that I've seen that flathead fish but that wasn't uh. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Now they had another fish in here that they called uh is a flatfish. {NW} So these supposed to get 'em you know and bring 'em and put 'em in this put 'em in the creek. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: What did they call that? Red eye they was red eyes I believe #1 they called 'em # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: flatfish. They can get about so big Interviewer: Yeah about ten ten ten inches #1 long? # 025: #2 Somewhere # along there. You know that's good fish #1 didn't have too # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: many bones in 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But I reckon rainbows is about the #1 best fish. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. Yeah # I see. #1 Trout now. # 025: #2 Yeah yeah. # Interviewer: Any uh any {D: perch} or perch uh ? 025: No not around here in these creeks now I don't know what all they've got in them rivers and lakes. {D: There ain't a lot of} fishing going on over on at the Douglas Dam #1 and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: I don't know what they've got there. And I never did fish over there. I ain't fished none in years. I used to when I was a boy. Liked to fish a lot along this creek and go to Little River over here once #1 in a while. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # When you fished did you ever go out in a boat? 025: No I never did do that. Interviewer: Did anyone around here ever build boats? 025: No but they a lot of people got 'em they go up and down this road every day. Interviewer: Now these are the uh I I meant I meant the old timers did #1 they? # 025: #2 No # I don't think so #1 they had # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: no use for boats. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: People had too much to do then to #1 get out # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: and boat and fish. Interviewer: Yeah. {NW} 025: {D: Now then there's classes.} {D: comes they come out of town and about} you know and then put them boats they've even got trailers and I don't know where they're going to. They go th- through here every day. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: Some of 'em they've got boats c- canoes or something tied on top of their car. Interviewer: Uh-huh. {NW} 025: #1 Those or he's got a real big trailer to haul these big long boats I reckon they're # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: going over here to Douglas Dam. Interviewer: Uh-huh. #1 That's # 025: #2 You can't # Get in the river with 'em. Interviewer: Yeah Is Douglas Dam is more like is like a lake? 025: {X} 025: Uh one of my #1 cousins. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Oh is that right? I wondered if now I just wondered if they they had uh if they if what kinds of boats little boats they had on the? 025: #1 I don't # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: I don't know {D: what} Interviewer: Other than canoes. 025: I don't know what they've got but now they've got {X} great big long boats. They've even got trailers for 'em haul 'em all. and some of 'em will have 'em on uh tied on the top of the car bottom side up {D: or not} I don't know what that is I don't get close enough to 'em to find out just exactly what. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {D: And they's some folks here in the cove} that'll buy boats. I've got a neighbor over here that's got a boat. I don't know how he gets it over there you got a big truck. I guess he takes it on that and he may have a trailer to hang it pull it #1 on. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # But uh when a boat is first built and it's put in the water for the first time you know what that's called? You slide it out in the water. 025: {D: I don't know} if they built 'em out of wood they've got to put 'em in there and let 'em soak up you know. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: {D: They will} Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 That # lumber'd get wet and soaked up and turn water you see Interviewer: Yeah. 025: Same way with the hog trough. You can't hardly put anything together close enough. It'll turn to water. You put water in it and let it soak up. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And places where it'll leak out but it'll get after awhile you know after that water stays in #1 there a # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: while it won't leak. Interviewer: Now something a woman wears when she's doing the cooking? 025: Apron. Interviewer: Yeah. And and then uh uh a uh uh that she she was in a oh say say your wife is gonna get some material she might go into the store and get a little a little piece of the material and bring it home to see if it matches the um. 025: I don't know what you'd call that. I know that's been done they do that you know get a little piece of that see if it's like what they've got you know. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 {X} # little of something to make a dress or to make something else. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Well what if you went into the store and got something uh that uh they gave you something something for nothing uh to uh uh to try to taste. See if you liked it. 025: You mean what would they call that? Interviewer: Yeah. 025: Well I don't know. I reckon they call it a sample or #1 something. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Well do they in {X} do they ever when you when you went to pay your bill say at the oh at the um feed store or something and you paid your bill or or uh uh general store or something did they ever uh a man might throw in something extra #1 uh. # 025: #2 Sometimes # they would. Sometimes if you're gonna buy a big order they'd give you something you know as a present. Interviewer: Yeah. Just. 025: And if you paid up a bill Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: they'd give you something you know. Interviewer: They just call that a present #1 I guess? # 025: #2 Yeah. # They give you something or another. Make you a present {D: though.} Now that's where that clock came from. My #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Is that right? # 025: business and they gave him that clock #1 as a payment # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: for a bill of goods he had bought. Interviewer: Is that right? Well that's that that was a nice present. 025: That's right and I've seen other stores that had 'em. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And these big companies a lot of times they'd give a merchant a premium you know for a large big amount of bill Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 {X} # to the store. Back when I was a boy it ain't that way now grocery stores had a hard time there's {D: nothing going on on a} saw milling and farming and Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: things like that and they had to carry the people {D: too long.} But now then everybody to {X} people {X} social security and welfare there ain't no more poor people anymore that has to do that way they can all just. The grocery stores are making money now. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 They # get their pay every week. #1 These {X} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: people all these here people that's working on jobs get your pay every week. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh older people that ain't got no moneys are drawing social security and them that that ain't got nothing and don't want nothing well they're they're on welfare #1 you see. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah sure. # Uh when uh what kind of clothing did uh oh people wear in your father's time? Just kind of describe the. 025: #1 Well uh people as # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: far back as I can remember {D: in our old home} my granddad {D: that was} {X} he wouldn't wear nothing only jeans. They was a heavy kind of something. My grandmother would make 'em for him you know. But then at a later date I'd knowed him to wear overalls. As far back as I can remember people wore overalls mostly farmers. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {D: Some of 'em won't} but they would get these little overalls {D: stuff with a no} bib on 'em and #1 still # Interviewer: #2 Mm. # 025: wear them. Back then a lot of people wore they had uh th- an awful thick shirt. They called it hickory shirt {D: with strapping.} Oh people nearly wore them ol' hickory shirts. One of 'em would last you all summer you know people sweat a lot hard work and sweat. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And they could take 'em old hickory shirt and them's heavy but they'd wear 'em all summer. Interviewer: Huh and they. 025: #1 Oh but it'd last # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: you a summer maybe a #1 year # Interviewer: #2 Huh. # Well do they would they uh did they hang out and they wore them outside? 025: No they put 'em down their pants. Interviewer: Uh-huh. and that's something they might wear over that if it was cold? 025: Well {D: they'd} wear a coat or something. Now some old people back then didn't um bundle up like they do now. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: My granddad is an old timer and uh and uh {NS} I know we'd go to kill hogs and he'd had to kill hogs in cold weather. He'd wear them old hickory shirts he wasn't wearing no underwear. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: and uh he'd {D: drawers} some kind of drawers was for his undershirts or long handles #1 something like # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: that he wouldn't wear 'em. And well he'd get out there the coldest day that come and he'd roll up his pull off his coat and roll up his sleeves. He always done the gutting you know and the cutting up of them hogs #1 as long as he # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: live. And uh {X} the rest of us would be a freezing to death and he'd be making it good. It's just sort of what you get used #1 to. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 025: And we was talking about that wool cotton or {NW} wool thread they uh lot of 'em uh the old timers use them ol' homemade socks you know. They'll have 'em a dozen laying around. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 Wear a # pair you'd wear a pair every year. My granddad in the summertime he'd come the rainy weather like it is now he could get out and go barefoot. #1 He said # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: he could walk {X} after a rain if it was a dirt road. Interviewer: #1 Is that right? # 025: #2 He # never was bothered with bunions on his feet or nothing like that. Interviewer: Is that right? Um was uh the uh uh on on uh Sunday um people would get dressed up they might wear a a man would wear? 025: Oh collar and tie. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: {X} 025: #1 We used to # Interviewer: #2 Uh. # 025: {D: have little ol' shirts you know and} I don't know what they #1 paid # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: for a collar that t-shirt collars. I don't have anymore see that anymore. {D: the collars all run to the shirt} #1 I don't got {X} sure # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. Sure. # 025: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: {X} {X} Interviewer: Well if you want to go get it go uh. 025: Well. Interviewer: Yeah. Sure that's all right. 025: {X} very wealthy fella didn't get what he got {D: and dropped him for another.} Interviewer: Yeah. 025: {D: And man will do the} same thing you know. {NS} Sometimes they marry for wealth instead of love. Interviewer: {X} I suppose the ideal thing is to find both. {NW} 025: Yeah. {C: laughing} Interviewer: {NW} {NS} 025: If the that's got {X} Interviewer: {X} #1 {X} # 025: #2 I # even mowed the yard last night. carried that stuff in here {D: Ramona} said she hadn't got to sweep the floor {D: but you needn't to pay no attention that.} {NW} Can't keep that stuff off of your feet. Finally got my grandson and another boy to come over here last night and mow for me. I've got two mowing machines. Got a {C: background noise} riding one and he does the big mowing on that and the other boy he does around the trees you know corners and where you can't get to with that big one. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But you're just lucky this day and time to get anybody to do anything. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: Used to I could get all the help I wanted and couldn't pay for it and now then I can pay for it and can't get the help and I'm just right back where I started #1 off. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Yeah. 025: Ain't any better off. Interviewer: I was asking you yesterday we talking yesterday the day before yesterday you were telling me about that sheriff. Uh did that man make other kinds of uh any uh? 025: Hell they've got uh he works for their kinfolks and he works for Reagan's up there you don't know Gatlinburg well but it's out there on roaring fork road and they make do that for a living. They've got a big factory out there you know. They make everything in the way of wood. I don't know what all they do make. Chairs beds. Anything most. They've got their machinery there you know and they can start with a raw material #1 you know and # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: then you go right on up. They make chairs and tables and whatnot anything. Interviewer: Mostly uh uh furniture? 025: Furniture and stuff like that {NW} Interviewer: {NW} I asked you last time about uh when we were talking about that uh the thing in the we talked about the closets and so forth did you ever have anything you called a chifforobe or um or a wardrobe? 025: Well now I don't know {D: you told me} I guess that'd all be the same {D: and} have wardrobes you know Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 and that # was. Interviewer: Now were those built in or movable? 025: Well they was {D: sold} most of 'em in these older houses was built in. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: But now then I guess they're movable. People don't build them things in these new houses #1 anymore. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # And what did you have on your windows? Uh now what would you call these things right here that go up and down? 025: Um the shades is on the inside and them #1 others # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: is curtains. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. the curtains are on the 025: #1 Mm yeah. # Interviewer: #2 in the inside. # And uh what do you call expensive dishware? 025: Well I'd reckon that would be you know sometime {X} dishware is like everything #1 else # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: there's good and bad you know. Interviewer: Do they have a name for the the really uh expensive stuff? 025: Well I can't recall that. {X} Interviewer: Or something you might put you know something you know something you might put cut flowers in? 025: Well I don't know now. We've never had nothing that I know of like #1 that. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: #1 We just had our # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: different kinds of dishes and vases and Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: things like that you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But uh glassware just like everything else you know some of it's more expensive than others. I don't know why it would be glass are just glass. Interviewer: Right. 025: It's like I told the hardware man out here one time {D: about his uh} {D: likes in the kitchen there} you know them big glasses would go put in here when one breaks out now I used to I could get 'em for about sixty cents a piece but I went out there one day and they just charged me I don't know just about double price. I said what's the matter? He said I don't know. He said I don't understand it. He said glass is made out of sand and said sand ain't going up any. Interviewer: {NW} Yeah. #1 {X} # 025: #2 I went on up # to the other hardware then I don't know what happened to these fellas {X} hardware. I mean {X} went on up there to {X} and they're still back down about forty, sixty cents somewhere along #1 where I # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: used to pay for 'em. I think they just have them marked up wrong somewhere #1 or another. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: Glass is a thing that didn't advance too bad for a long time. It was kind of funny how things would go up right quick. You take for instance hardware. Hardware was a thing that started up and never did go down. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Uh you might use a comb on your hair or what else might a person use? 025: Uh brush or something another. They's hairbrushes you know. {X}. Interviewer: Yesterday we were #1 talking. # 025: #2 I don't # never use none #1 of 'em you can see that. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # #1 {X} # 025: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: Um the uh yesterday we were talking about uh what a man would wear to church on Sunday and you say you said a collar and tie but what what might he wear uh um you know in the if he had uh pants and coat that matched what would that be called? 025: A suit. Interviewer: Now and if he just bought it it wouldn't a be an old one it would be a? 025: Just be a suit you know. {D: And all like the} them suits would come in coats and people used to wear vests. You've seen these ol' #1 Westerns. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {X} them ol' vests you know. They're pretty common you never seen or hear tell one of them things anymore. See they didn't have no sleeves in 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: And the back was just cloth. and the front of 'em was just like your other #1 clothes or suits # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: you know. And they'd put their neck ties down in that #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # Now if um if a shirt was uh washed in water that was too hot the collar might? 025: Well there was some cloth that shrank and some was unshrank and some wouldn't you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Some cloth you'd take uh a shirt that was big enough for me or you and then wash it and maybe it wouldn't be big enough for the next fella you know. #1 The # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: sleeves would draw out. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Collar would draw out and get too tight. Interviewer: Right. 025: {X} They thought to save s- they don't make that kind of stuff much anymore well and folks was pretty careful they could pretty well tell that shrinkable stuff #1 you know and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: {D: not other.} You take maybe overalls. {D: You used to would} get cheap overhauls. Maybe they'd be big enough too big for you when you got 'em and a little while the legs would be way up here. They would draw up. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 Shrink. # I don't know what #1 caused it {X} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. All right. # 025: and others wouldn't. Interviewer: Yeah. #1 I got. # 025: #2 And then # there was some cloth that when you washed 'em they'd fade out you know the colors would fade out. #1 And some # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: wouldn't. I don't know why. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Now I had overalls these things that would come up over your #1 shoulders. # 025: #2 Overalls is # what I wear like #1 this # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: you know. #1 They # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: may have got overalls the same kind but they ain't got the bib #1 to 'em # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: and just wear a belt in 'em you know and they call them blue #1 jeans. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Now what what do you call those things that go up over your shoulders? #1 Them's the # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: galluses or suspenders. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: {D: You take now lizards} and these ol' overalls they're made with 'em. #1 They're suspenders # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: but back yonder back yonder people used to to {X} say somebody like me you know {D: this uh} didn't have enough a belly on 'em to keep a belt on they'd wear them #1 suspenders. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And then when I was a boy instead of people now goes the short sleeved shirts. {D: They'd buy 'em.} #1 Or # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: maybe like I do roll 'em up or like your now your is already off. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They had to wear 'em down over their hands and they had a big ol' rubber thing about oh it was nearly as big as your little finger and they'd put 'em here you know and they'd call them sleeve holders. To keep your sleeves down from over your #1 hand. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # I see. Um what um uh uh might you if you had going into town you might keep coins in something you carry in your pocket? 025: Do what? Interviewer: You're taking going in going into the s- into town you might have some coins in your #1 pocket {X} # 025: #2 Well people had # little ol' they call 'em pocketbooks you know and they have different kinds of 'em. {D: some had a s- book and} string in 'em and pull 'em up and tie 'em but the old ones would have uh just some would {NS} used to people when they had a large amounts of them they'd have you know the banks {D: put that in little sacks but} they just have something. Used to s- smoking tobacco Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 would # come in little cloth pouches with a Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 s- # drawstring. #1 And a lot of # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: people you know it didn't have a billfo- pocketbook {D: it'd carry them} #1 but # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: a lot of these people that have them I don't know whether I've got {D: very one of them ol''} pocketbooks. And they'd uh have two sections to 'em two sides. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And of course there wasn't no room in them for papers or anything like that. and they'd latch up here. Two little latches would go together #1 to hold 'em. # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # They ever call that a purse? 025: No that was just pocketbooks. Purses would be something like these women carry #1 you know with a # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 025: handle on it. #1 or something. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # What would you call a thing a woman might wear around her wrist? 025: {X} Bracelet. Interviewer: And something she might wear around her #1 neck? # 025: #2 Necklace. # Interviewer: Okay. Uh if you're talking about beads would you call what would you #1 call 'em? # 025: #2 Well that'd # that'd be the same you know that would go around her #1 neck. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Beads. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: #1 People # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: still wears them a lot. But they're more expensive than they used to. Used to you know you could buy them beads {D: ten it was ten cent store. You can yet I guess} #1 but # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: that's kind of stuffs just for children. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: But you see now you take these necklaces and wealthy people's got them things that cost thousands of dollars. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But they've got pearls on them you #1 know it's # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: expensive stuff. You can see every once in a while on a on a television show where they've got that jewelry all insured you know and will a lot of times they'll sell it and let on like it's been stole. You see that on #1 television # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: you know. They insure them Interviewer: Sure. 025: thousands of dollars. Interviewer: Would you call that a string of beads or a pair of beads? 025: String. Interviewer: {X} #1 {X} # 025: #2 String of # beads they're just on a string #1 you # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: know. Interviewer: How much television do you usually watch during a week would you say? 025: Oh we never watch television {D: but they um} watch it from the time the weather goes on probably six oh clock 'til ten. Interviewer: #1 I see. # 025: #2 Depends # on what's on what I'm interested #1 in. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # What kinds of things do you like to watch? 025: Huh? Interviewer: What kinds of programs do you usually #1 watch? # 025: #2 Oh different # things I always catch the weather and the news and then on the other hand you have {X} I like these here uh police you know and I like Gunsmoke. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: #1 Things # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: like that. My wife she likes other things. #1 We just # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: watch whatever we like you know. {X} We can can't get but two stations #1 here. # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: Wears Cove's a bad place to get Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: good stations. They some of these television mens told me that Wears Cove was Wears Valley was the worst place they ever tried to get a picture. Some places you just can't get 'em. #1 There's something # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: that something knocks it off #1 the timber # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 or something. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # I noticed that uh coming in on the uh the radio. It picks up on a awful lot of static #1 as soon as you come in. # 025: #2 Well the it # #1 will unless # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: {D: well as I don't} know I don't know whether it's right or not but he's about one of the first television men comes to {X} And he told me that {D: any way} some way this would go in and hit that mountain and come back. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And they's places in here that you can't hardly get a picture now. The first television we ever got here my boy me and him bought it together and he got a boy he'd went to school with to come in here and help him put it up. Well we never did have no trouble out here getting a picture. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But right over here at my son-in-law's they like to have never gotten one. They had about three or four different people to come. Interviewer: #1 Is that right? # 025: #2 {X} # They had set that television here and yonder and out yonder and they had two or three over in in one or two days. {D: There's a o- one awful bad.} And they finally just set it right in the corner right on that uh kitchen and come in on the back you know and just a little porch out over the #1 step. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: they set it right there in the corner where these two rooms met. #1 And they've got uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: still got it there. {Just there.} That was the only place they #1 could find # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: after they'd tried all around in the garden and out in the field and all around that. Interviewer: How long ago did you get a television say? 025: Oh we've had a television set I guess twelve fifteen #1 years. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # When did electricity come into uh the #1 uh? # 025: #2 Forty-eight. # Interviewer: In the valley? 025: Forty-eight. Interviewer: In forty-eight? Up until forty-eight there was #1 no? # 025: #2 No electricity. # Interviewer: All right. Uh and how about uh the uh uh do do you get a newspaper uh regularly? 025: Get a daily paper Knoxville journal #1 and then we # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: get two county #1 papers. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Do how have you been reading that uh all along all your life? #1 {X} # 025: #2 No not # all of my life but I've been reading it for a long long time. I don't know what how long or. Interviewer: All right. 025: Thirty years or more. Interviewer: All right. Uh what do you call that thing you open up on a rainy day? 025: Umbrella. #1 You ever # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: see one? Interviewer: #1 Oh yeah {NW} # 025: #2 {NW} # #1 We call 'em # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: country people call 'em umbrellas higher {D: toned} people call 'em parasols. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {NW} Interviewer: #1 I never called it a parasol I always thought that was very high {D: tone}. # 025: #2 {NW} # #1 But you # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: see us mountain people here we just call 'em what we've always been used to calling 'em but you #1 take # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: higher classed people you know and better educated they call them parasol. {NW} Interviewer: Right. 025: {NW} Interviewer: Now in bed the thing you rest your head on? 025: Huh? Interviewer: The thing you rest your head on in bed? 025: It's a pillow. Interviewer: #1 Alright what e- # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: what else is on a bed besides a pillow? #1 Uh. # 025: #2 Well # you take us older people that used to have they've got feather beds. {D: But} we still don't. But uh there there uh mattresses you know. People use mattresses now. But now back in my days my grandma kept around a hundred geese. And you'd pick them geese every six weeks and back as far as I was a little boy you could sell them feathers for a dollar a pound. #1 I don't know where # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: you couldn't buy 'em I don't guess now unless they'd {D: I don't know or} what they'd do yeah there's no geese anymore in this country #1 I guess # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: {D: there are in other places} but they'd gather them ol' geese up. They'd go up and down that street you know for a mile. That was my job to gather them up. It'd take two or three days to gather them geese up. And then they'd get some old women who knowed how to do it and they'd catch them ol' geese and put 'em between their legs and they'd #1 pull # Interviewer: #2 Mm. # 025: them feathers and then about six weeks more they'd be feathered out again. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And them pillows you'd make 'em out of them goose #1 feathers. # Interviewer: #2 Did they ever # make a long one that went the full length of the top of the bed? 025: Yeah that's what you'd what you sleep on. Interviewer: I mean just one long pillow that #1 went all. # 025: #2 Well # that's just not a pillow it's a {NS} Auxiliary : Now I can hear what you hear better on the {X}. 025: {D: Now this bed's not made up but} #1 you can # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: {X} Interviewer: Yeah I see. 025: {X} Interviewer: Yeah I mean something 025: {D: The mattress is under} #1 here. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # I mean something that you have across here I guess a pillow. Have you ever seen one of those that goes like #1 that? # 025: #2 I # {D: I guess I have.} {D: It goes on across} {X} Interviewer: Huh. 025: {D: a double bed} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: {D: two pillows.} Interviewer: Right. 025: {X} Turn it up #1 double it # Interviewer: #2 Huh. # 025: sleep on it. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 {X} # {D: Out on bump their head} I'll sleep on two pillows. Interviewer: Uh-huh What was that that you said about some of those {X} 025: Uh-huh. Interviewer: You said some of those pillows would go? 025: Well now that feather #1 bed there. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: That ain't a pillow that #1 goes the # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: whole width of the bed.] Interviewer: Yeah. Okay. 025: We've got several of them because they've come down through the generation but now you couldn't get 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But now my wife will do this {NW} {D: when they} kill chickens you know we used to before we got to buying already {D: dressed you'd} kill our own chickens. Well they'd take care of them feathers you know and that make puts them in these cushions here you #1 see. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: {d: That} you're sitting on now. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: They're made out of chicken feathers. Interviewer: I see. Uh the uh uh uh about the last things you put on a bed? 025: Huh? Interviewer: The last thing that's put on a #1 bed? # 025: #2 Well them's # quilts or coverlets Interviewer: What's the difference between a quilt and a coverlet? 025: Well now quilts uh thing of something like that would be a coverlet uh in there only they're different and I told you the other day that #1 one was # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: handmade. It's come down through my great grandmother. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: That would be a I don't know I reckon you'd call that a I've always heared 'em called coverlets or spreads #1 or something like # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: that and then yonder you see on them beds it's a different kind that's {X} Interviewer: {X} 025: That's handmade #1 a hundred # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: years old. Interviewer: What would you call that thing in #1 there? # 025: #2 Uh # spreads. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 025: #2 Or something # like that. That's coverlet now you talking about coverlet that's all it's been called as far as I know. A coverlet. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But them would be #1 bedspreads or something # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. {X} # 025: like that. Interviewer: And what's a quilt? #1 How would that be? # 025: #2 Well now # a quilt's a thing that's that's made you know and it's cotton #1 between the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: quilting and the lining. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: If you don't know I can show you. There are a lot of quilts here if you'd rather see it. Interviewer: Well I just wondered how what kind of a #1 distinction # 025: #2 Well # {D: now they} Interviewer: #1 you made? # 025: #2 women # done the quilting they get their frames and put 'em up here and then gather in and quilt 'em. And they first take something like a sheet you know or a big heavy piece of white cloth and sew it together. And uh then they'd take this cotton. And put between it now they'd piece these squares you know and take and sew 'em down there. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Make all kinds of quilts them quilts is gotten nearly you can get twenty-five thirty dollars a piece for 'em. Interviewer: What do you call a bed that's made up flat on the floor? 025: A what? Interviewer: A well you know like if you had a whole lot of kids over to the house #1 and? # 025: #2 Oh # them's pallets. Pallets. {X} That's what we always #1 called 'em. I don't know # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. Sure. # 025: what other people called 'em. Interviewer: Now uh what what do you call a uh uh what different kinds of of of uh soil how would you just kind of describe the different kinds of soil you have on your 025: #1 Soil? # Interviewer: #2 your # place yeah. I don't want technical names. #1 I just need. # 025: #2 Well # that's just difference in soil you take {NW} two or three fields right close together. There'll be different kinds of soil. Now you take in our country most of it in this low land is black. Black soil. Soil. but you get up on hilltops and higher land and the soil don't go so deep {D: of you get down there just} red clay. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And you take down in the lower end of the county. I've got a son-in-law down there and they raise a lot stuff you know. And they bring us up they've got yellow just yellow clay soil. And the other day they brung uh some beans up here {D: and I was told to} pay for a bushel of them beans. And you'll get that red soil when you're done you gotta go wash your hands that red soil #1 with our # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: beans ain't that way. That #1 soil # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: don't stick to 'em. We've got a black {D: thick} soil here. Interviewer: You call that black soil anything? 025: Well #1 that's just # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: black soil or clay soil you know. Interviewer: What do you call that black kind of sticky soil? That that really it's black and kind of wet. 025: Well I don't know what you'd call that unless it'd be mud. Interviewer: #1 Do you have anything you call jumbo soil or gumbo? # 025: #2 {X} No # I never did hear of that. Interviewer: Okay and uh uh a place out in the uh uh uh out near uh a uh uh branch or a creek or or a branch or a stream that has water on it during the in the spring and then later you can plow it. 025: {D: Well they would say} I've got a lot of overflow land. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Creeks will get up get over and it leaves uh it used to leave a lot of soil now it leaves tin cans #1 and old plastic # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: containers that #1 peoples # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: throwed out and throwed them in the creek and are all over your pasture land and all over your. It's it's getting mean. Even bottles and and uh {NW} it's mean but when I was a boy that stuff wasn't throwed in the #1 creek. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And this land would overflow and leave that rich stuff on there and then you'd take a field that overflow like that. It'd be the richest field you #1 had. # Interviewer: #2 Mm. # 025: Unless there's somewhere where they get the washing. If you cultivated it and it come up one of them big floods while it was in corn or some {X} I keep mine all in pasture and hay in #1 them # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: overflow places. Interviewer: #1 Would you call # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Would you call that bot- is that the same thing as bottom land? 025: Bottom land is creek bottom or river bottom of course creek bottoms here and out yonder you can see 'em there along the highway it does that out along the highway there. Interviewer: Uh-huh 025: It's overflows and now Sevierville's you take Sevierville's. Sevierville's right in the forks of two {X} two uh rivers. It gets the whole watershed to this cove #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: this mountain here. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And uh They come together right at the lower end of Sevierville down there at the bridge #1 right after you # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: pass the co-op before you turn over there to John Denton right there's where they come together. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You cross the to go to John Denton's you crossed what they call the Fred C Atchley #1 bridge. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Well the other bridges there goes across four forty-one. Well the two rivers come together right there. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And it'd just wash the rubble away. Interviewer: Huh. Is that right? 025: Oh it'd be all over Sevierville. Well they've spent thousands and thousands of dollars there it just got so bad they had to do something. It ruined the the the post office up there had a big basement. And it come down them streets you know and run they just lost that basement in that court house this office. Or or {NW} it used to be down under there. And a lot of other offices. {X} Post office a great big place #1 but you. # Interviewer: #2 What are the names # of those rivers? 025: Well one of 'em is East Fork and the other one is Little Pigeon. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 The one that # comes down from Gatlinburg is Little Pigeon. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And the one that comes down from the other side down in here is called uh {C: background noise} East Fork. But the two rivers gets the whole watersheds. {D: And I mean get and and uh} this creek here and what water comes out of here and up Gatlinburg and them all comes down Little Pigeon. Well all down back over yonder it comes down East Fork. Interviewer: #1 All right. # 025: #2 And # you get them two rivers together with the whole watersheds of the whole county Interviewer: Yeah. 025: you've got a mess of water. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But they've spend thousands of dollars on down below John Denton's plumb way on down in there you know. If you just look at it you can see they've opened that river out and drilled it out. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And my boy lives {D: right} street across the river over there. when you start over to John Denton's after you cross the Fred Atchley bridge there's {X} a town in there that's called {D: Love-Addition} and my boy lives there. You just it's just right after you cross the bridge you turn #1 right. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And there's a great big little town. Well it'd just cover that up. Interviewer: #1 Is that right? # 025: #2 My # {D: boy bought his and he bought on every street} and them folks would have to vacate in there. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And now then it don't it don't do that anymore. It #1 don't overflow # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: anymore. They had to do something it was about to wash Sevierville away. Interviewer: #1 Is there uh? # 025: #2 You see # Sevierville's low. #1 It's low # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: land. Interviewer: Is there isn't there another fork that comes uh you said the #1 East Fork. # 025: #2 No it's just # them two forks. That East Fork. Interviewer: Is there something called middle fork? 025: No it's East #1 Fork and # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Little Pigeon. Interviewer: #1 I see # 025: #2 Little # Pigeon comes from Gatlinsburg and that side of the mountain. Well that gets all this community you know. It goes down here and it goes over here and meets with Waldens creek and they go on down there and they get into middle creek and then middle creek empties into the Little Pigeon. Down there below with Henderson Springs just down in there below where you hit four forty-one. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And that goes on and then the watersheds the rest of it. {D: But the} Little Pigeon comes from the Gatlinburg side. #1 Well then you # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: get on down there and East Fork comes from what they call Pittman Center you know and on that other end of the county. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And so the whole watersheds of the county from Sevierville back and from Sevierville {X} has to come into them two rivers. And it comes in {X} Sevierville. {D: And so that was in wonders} Servierville ain't been washed away. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now where's the pi- Little Pigeon what what does that run into? 025: It runs in the the Little Pigeon. Little Pigeon now it comes down the {D: two four} #1 going to # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Servierville it comes from down from #1 {D: Gatlinburg.} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 And that's # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: in and that #1 gets # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: this water. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And then where does the where does the Little Pigeon then flow to? 025: Well now that's Little Pigeon. East Fork Interviewer: Mm. 025: comes in over there under the Fred Atchley bridge #1 where you # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: cross #1 going to John Denton's # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: they both come together right there at them two bridges. #1 Right there is # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: where they run into one another. Interviewer: Do they flow into the French Broad then? 025: Yeah they go on into the French Broad. And then {C: background noise} the French Broad goes on into the what is it. There's a Knoxville, Holston. Interviewer: #1 Holston. # 025: #2 Hmm. # #1 East Tenne- east Tennessee or something. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # How far is the French Broad from here? 025: #1 Well the French Broad ain't too # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: far over there from John Denton's. #1 That's where the # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Douglas Dam you #1 see the # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: French Broad River. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. #1 Now # 025: #2 French # Broad River comes out of out North Carolina would you believe that? Interviewer: Yeah yeah I would. {NW} 025: First time ever I went {X} we was coming back you know and {X} come on down through there through uh Murphy North Carolina and down through there and there's fella sitting there and I said what's the name of that river. He said that's French Broad. Oh I said that can't be French Broad. I said French Broad is over in my county. I said that river can't get across that {D: mountain.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And he said it does. He said that's French Broad. He said it goes right on and goes through Cocke County Sevier County and Jefferson County and right on into I don't know is that the Hudson River there you don't know #1 Knoxville well. # Interviewer: #2 Hol- Hol- # 025: #1 Holston River. # Interviewer: #2 Holston or # 025: #1 something. It # Interviewer: #2 It's the Holston yeah. # 025: goes in there and that river that down the street bridges over what ever that is. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: There's two or three rivers there. I #1 get 'em # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: mixed up. There's the Tennessee River #1 and the Holston # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: River. Interviewer: Now do they uh when you're talking about this low this kind of this low land where you where you grow hay uh did you ever call what would you call uh that kind of a field? 025: That's a meadow. We call them meadows. Interviewer: #1 And then uh uh # 025: #2 As an old man # told me one time. He said that's all Sevierville ever done said it {D: run the} biggest meadow. He said it {D: run} one of the finest meadows in the county. Interviewer: {NW} #1 {NW} # 025: #2 {X} # You know Maryville. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 025: #2 You've # been through #1 Maryville. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Maryville's on high land. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You never notice that? Interviewer: Well I #1 I # 025: #2 It's on # higher land. Interviewer: {X} 025: Well now down here in Sevierville they couldn't have put Sevierville in a worse place. #1 Nowhere in # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: the county than right there where all them rivers comes #1 together. It's a # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: thousand wonders it ain't be washed #1 away. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 025: And it's just become {X} Interviewer: Uh how about land that uh that has water standing on it all the time? 025: Them swamps. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 Like # they have down in Florida. {NS} Interviewer: Oh did have you if you have a swampy land and you want to cultivate it how do you how do you take care of that? 025: Well there's some of it you can't do nothing about. Some of it you can take bulldozers and backhoes and ditch it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Drain it and put in tile and that's one thing where they {D: sure they help us} out here. They see the g- in things like that the government will pay for some of it you see. Interviewer: Hmm. 025: And a lot of people will take and take them backhoes and clean that out and tile it and make good farm land out of it. Interviewer: Now uh. #1 {X} # 025: #2 In places # where they can. Interviewer: What do you call that thing that you cut with a backhoe? 025: Huh? Interviewer: That thing that you cut with a backhoe. That you? 025: Well that's ditching or something like that Interviewer: #1 {X} Would you call that a ditch or a or a? # 025: #2 or something like that. We call it ditching or draining. We # just call it a ditch. Interviewer: Uh-huh. uh 025: {X} Some of 'em's big and some of 'em's little. Interviewer: #1 Now do you call # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: call this a cove or a valley. Uh how about something smaller than this up in the #1 mountains? # 025: #2 Well # now that ain't what a cove is. Cove is a place just like this that's surrounded by #1 mountains. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: and when I was telling you the other day about {X} mountain. There's another little cove over there that's between two mountains. Well it's less than this one it's called the little cove. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But over yonder's Cades Cove. It's surrounded by mountains. It's a bigger place than Wears Valley it's Cades Cove. {NS} Interviewer: Did you know people from uh Cades Cove when you were uh growing up? 025: Well a very few. Very few. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They used to come out over here where I got acquainted with 'em. Pe- they kept lots of cattle over there. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 Some # people from over in here would go and over there and buy there cattle and bring 'em out and some of them fellas would come out here and help 'em drive 'em and they'd get 'em to here you know and we always had plenty of room. And uh they'd stay all night. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Lock their cattle here and feed 'em you know. I knew a few not too many. Interviewer: Were they were they were they more were did those people keep to themselves more than the #1 {X} # 025: #2 No they was just like us # and everybody else. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But them people over there now course you don't understand if you's never over there. That was a great big cove. Well they had the whole Smoky Mountain back there between Tennessee and North Carolina #1 they could # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: pasture herd their cattle. Well people would go from here now people below John Denton's and people down in there in that {X} section they'd come through here with hundreds of cattle. And they nearly all be {X} and they'd stay all night here. We'd have {X} two or three acres and you have that full. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Well the next day they'd take them cattle and get into Cades Cove with 'em. Well the next day they'd take 'em on the mountain. Well they'd pay somebody so much a month or season to look after these cattle and sell them. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 I # guess the look much but they got paid for it. Then they'd go back about September October and get them cattle and bring 'em back. And uh then these Cades Cove people some of 'em made money that away looking after them cattle. Some of them made whiskey. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: and they and some of them they kept bees and they kept cattle And they had big orchards over there and they lived well. They done well. Mountain people lived well. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: They killed a lot of game and they fattened a lot of hogs and they fattened a lot of cattle and they raised their honey. They raised their other crops. You'd be surprised you oughta see that country. It's right up there under Smoky Mountain. Some it's just as level as this bottom land down here. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now the uh something that's uh uh uh uh just a little rise in a land what would you call that? {X} The land is flat. 025: Well they call that rolling land. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: You take right up here above the {X} that it wouldn't be rolling that ain't steep enough. But land that's you know you just barely can get over it with a mowing machine or something they call that rolling land. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Would you call that uh those hills? 025: No it's just if you can farm it it's just rolling land. But now hills would be you take uh you can get over it if it's cleared off over yonder by my son-in-law's. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 {X} # there that's my field over there. And you go up there and up on top of this hill it's flat. when you get over on yonder you can see it coming up the road. It's it's steep but you know in a place or two there you can't get over it with a mowing machine. That's called rolling #1 land. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # How about a a channel cut by erosion in a field what would you call that? 025: {NW} Well now I don't know just what the proper name. Most people would call that uh {D: ditch that out.} They'd say ditch it out or cut it #1 out. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Would you do you call that a gully? 025: Well now a gully's not that. A gully is a piece of land like up here on the hill or up higher that's where the land's been cultivated and where it's water started down and and r- and run. You can take a place like that and and take where you've turned it with a turning plow and leave a furrow open and you can let that go from years to years {D: and directly} there will be a ditch there. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: It's a gully to start with. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 025: And after a while it's a big ditch. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Maybe behind your head there's one up here. My neighbors up here {NW} and uh that ditch is I guess in places it's twelve fifteen feet deep. And I've heared my grandpa say that's where that started from. Said that a man quit plowing there and just had a they call 'em back furrows you know and that would leave out, take a turn, plow would leave a great big {D: plain.} He said the water got started down there and never did stop and it made that big ditch. {D: well these places are} ten or twelve feet deep. Interviewer: Do you have things up in the mountains they call ravines? 025: Yeah. Interviewer: What how is that different? 025: Well now them ravines the way I'd understand 'em just something that {D: can be higher something on} #1 you can # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: stand here and look at 'em. #1 You could # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: You can look at that mountain {X} Seen it all of my life. you can look at that mountain from here and there's things then you go on up here two or three miles and then you can go on up a little further and there's things that you can see from up there that you can't see here. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: #1 That's funny. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # #1 Yeah # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Yeah. What are the names of the mountains here? 025: #1 Well now that's # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: Cove Mountain. And this is over on this side the Hatchers all lived over there. That's called the Hatcher Mountain. And that's just the Cove Mountain #1 over there. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: That's the big mountain. And the land on this side of the cove that's {D: spread} from that big uh mountain is a whole lot better land. That #1 land # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: over there is sandy land. And it ain't near as good of land as land on that side next to this big #1 mountain. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: Had an old man come here one time from Union County and he bought a good farm up here and he said that the reason I wanted that farm he said I could have bought a farm somewhere else. But he said I's looking at that big mountain. He said land that's fed from that big mountain is richer land and it is. The land on that #1 side of the # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: valley is a whole lot better than the land on this side. You can take that land over there and it's sandy and open land make or dig a well on it. If you dig a well you have to dig it now people used to dig 'em by hand. There's one fella that used to live here in my place and he bought this land {D: over I think he} dug five or six wells. And then he f- started at digging hand wells. Then he got these uh well diggers {NS} and they finally made a trade with him. No water no money. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They dug about three wells {D: before they ever got in one.} They dug that well and they had to {D: case it or something.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now would would do they have any of that that they ca- ever called that sandy land loam? 025: Well that'd b- I guess that's what you'd #1 call it. # Interviewer: #2 Do you have any # kind of land you call red bud land? 025: Any any what? Interviewer: Red bud land. 025: I never did #1 hear that. Now there's # Interviewer: #2 Or crawfish. # 025: red clay. Well now there's crawfish land. I've got that. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: That's this bottom land where the crawfish {X} get in there you know and they'll just crawfish will dig out a great big hole {X} Interviewer: How about in the mountain a place where you'd be standing out there and it's just a sheer drop down there. What would you call that? 025: Well I don't know whether you'd call that a canyon or what you'd #1 call it. # Interviewer: #2 I mean # where you're standing though is it called like a cliff? A cliff a? 025: Cliff well that would be a cliff you know. Interviewer: Are there a lot of those around uh right in this? 025: No not as I know of right around here them cliffs them hollows you know is just deep hollows and some of 'em so steep you can't climb 'em. But them wouldn't be called cliffs. Cliffs as I've I've always understood was {X} big group of pile of rocks. Now these would be cliffs coming up Cove Creek. #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Now when the water comes down is does as the water is running along and it suddenly drops down. What's that called? 025: Well I just don't know what the proper name for that would be. but now them waters comes down hollows #1 in low # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: places that water don't run off in them high places. They run off in them high places and run down the low places {D: in every} place like that. There's a hollow somewhere you look on #1 the Cove # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Creek. #1 There's a # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: hollow #1 somewhere. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: When I here a few Sundays ago it come awful rain in the upper end of the valley. and didn't rain much here and the creek come down out the #1 banks. And # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: that evening me and my daughter-in-law {D: went on up there.} Well all where this erosion #1 or something # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: that comes from that #1 side. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: The water hits that. #1 There's # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: gotta be somewhere for that water to go and of course the water always hits the lowest places it can #1 come to # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: to run. Interviewer: Uh do they do they are there are there any large waterfalls on this side any large falls on this #1 side? # 025: #2 No # not that I know of. There are over in Cades Cove. They've got some falls over there in {X} called Abram Falls but I've never been to it. You have to walk #1 or ride something. # Interviewer: #2 Do you # call that though where the water where it just is it runs pretty fast and it's it's always uh {X} you call that white water or uh uh? #1 {X} # 025: #2 Well # out in the you mean where it runs #1 fast? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: That's swift water. We call that swift water. Interviewer: Okay. 025: That's what it gets when the creek gets up. The more water the faster it runs. #1 You can # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: {D: take a little ol' branch. Take enough of water in it.} Water a horse. #1 And let it # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: come a rain and it will be waist deep. #1 Or maybe uh # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: places would be higher than that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {NS} Now the uh uh mr Denton was telling me yesterday about the the road building. When they have to work on the roads did you have to do that? #1 Did you have to do that? # 025: #2 Yeah I was overseer # for years and years {D: ever.} Wears Cove was laid off in three or four sections. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And the people from certain {D: so far here} worked this roads. Well I had one man that uh almost every two or three years they'd get another man you know and have {D: overseer driving that around.} Well that was his job to get out. He had to get out and go warn 'em and tell 'em that they's gonna work the road. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And uh they get 'em all there together and if they didn't work the road well they had to pay that or pay somebody #1 else to go. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: And if a man was just {NW} he had to work six days a year Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But if a man had a team they gave him three days with him and his team. #1 And I'd always # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: use a team maybe two teams and put mine in one day and a half. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: But uh these fellas are just didn't know nothing but their own labor had to put in six days or pay six dollars. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And uh you'd have about two mile I guess or something like that to the section. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And uh in the graders you'd pick three teams. They had these ol' horse graders that's what we used for graders. Now they've got bulldozers that's all we had is just ol' horse drawn graders. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And then they'd take their picks and shovels and keep the ditches opened #1 up you know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # What kinds of roads did they build? #1 Were they were those what what # 025: #2 {X} Just those dirt # road. There's no rock on 'em and in bad places they'd go to where the sand come out up here. This Methodist church used to be an awful lot of sand in that branch there. Any more along this creek where you'd get to it they'd hold sand and put on them #1 bad # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: placing and rocks. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: I've got a place over yonder I {X} {D: there} if it was dug down in there the rocks are deep as #1 mine or your # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: head if it was dug down #1 to it. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Just these low places #1 they just # Interviewer: #2 # 025: go through where ever they can find 'em and haul #1 rocks and # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: fill them holes up. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And then cover 'em up with sand. #1 You could # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: get {X} of sand you know out of this creek and these branches. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 Especially # on this side of the #1 cove. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # {NS} When did uh um {X} Interviewer: {NS} when did they start uh uh paving the roads 025: well this road in here wasn't this here road that went this uh main highway was paved I mean back in my younger days and uh I guess they they built this main road through here in nineteen and thirty Interviewer: {NS} 025: and uh it wasn't a paved road it was just a gravel road you know and a gravel road here you've got all {X} Interviewer: yeah 025: and this road here was blacktopped in about nineteen hundred and sixty or #1 sixty # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: sixties when they built this this main road from then the other road now there's two or three sections of this road the other one was built up yonder I guess it's been a long back in the 40's or something before it was blacktopped 'til it comes over and then cut across but this main road here they they blacktopped a little a few years before that they got a little money and then blacktopped about a mile up here but when they built this road that's called a secondary road they built this road from up here to the forks of the road down yonder to where the red state see Interviewer: {NW} 025: and that was I guess it was in the early sixties I'd say sixty to sixty-two somewhere when it was blacktopped well then this cold creek road a few years ago for election scheme they blacktopped it just for election scheme to get a certain man elected you know give him credit Interviewer: uh huh 025: for having the road blacktopped Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh I've traveled that road down through there when two cars couldn't pass without your backed up maybe as far as from here up the road there'd be a little switchbacks they called 'em you know that two cars could pass I know one day I took somebody down there in an old T model Ford and I come back and they got right down here where you go into the into the woods around there and met a fella down there with two fellas with a big truckload of cattle and one of the fellas had land in here just gonna haul him out well there we was and every one of us couldn't back Interviewer: {NW} 025: he couldn't back up him cattle and I could not I was too far away from a place the back Interviewer: uh huh 025: and they had me to drive that T model Ford I don't know there silly and we got by with it and they had me to drive that T model Ford just as high as I could drive and pull into the bank and they held it Interviewer: uh huh 025: well they two of them well them two held it 'til I got out Interviewer: #1 uh huh # 025: #2 then # when I got out me and the other one held it Interviewer: uh huh 025: 'til this fella drove his big truckload of cattle on by Interviewer: uh huh 025: and then he come back and uh he helped hold it 'til I got in and he got her down Interviewer: #1 I see # 025: #2 now that's # that's facts that's silly but it it we done it Interviewer: sure you got all of you got your work 025: we done it Interviewer: good work you well it worked 025: little old T model Ford you know didn't take her too much wrong Interviewer: sure 025: there wasn't more I don't guess than I don't know five feet wide or something like that Interviewer: what would you call uh that like this uh the road or this this thing that comes right after your house here 025: eh we just call that a lane or something or other something like that Interviewer: okay #1 and the place in town # 025: #2 driveway # #1 or whatever # Interviewer: #2 sorry # 025: it'd be a driveway or a lane at least we used to call things like that a lane but now you'd call it a driveway and that's all that can be it just comes out here to the house and that's it people get mistaken you know there's a real turn just go straight across and goes up there up that hill about a mile Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 people would get # confused and come out here and turn around when they find out they can't get no further than Interviewer: #1 that's true # 025: #2 than the house # they'll turn around and go back never say a word or some of 'em would Interviewer: they've uh the things that you want in town you can they uh the next to the street and walk on the 025: the sidewalks Interviewer: yeah uh have you ever seen in town those places where there's grass between the sidewalk and the street the little 025: between the what? Interviewer: well between the here if the sidewalk is here and then and then there's maybe oh three or four feet of grass and then the before you get to the street 025: no I wouldn't say nothing in Sevier county Interviewer: okay uh 025: #1 you know I've never # Interviewer: #2 if you ever # 025: seen it Knoxville nor Maryville Interviewer: okay uh now when you drink coffee with uh and you and you put nothing in it what do you call that 025: call it black coffee Interviewer: uh huh do you ever use the expression barefooted? 025: yeah Interviewer: how what how does that 025: well that's just coffee and a little sugar no cream no nothing in it course the which a lot of people now I drink cream and sugar and have all of my life but I've had an uncle that he'd drink her just as black as they made it Interviewer: {NW} 025: and that's barefooted with nothing in it Interviewer: {NW} 025: pure black coffee Interviewer: uh huh okay uh if 025: and he'd get up on that coffee I don't know I might be telling you things Interviewer: no I 025: be telling you things that you didn't want to know Interviewer: go ahead 025: he's talking bout this coffee people used to fox hunt on a lot they'd take their coffee and take 'em an old can bucket and they'd go in these mountains you know and uh fox hunt and lay out up here all night and build 'em up far and let their dogs run foxes said there's an old man {X} out here bout two or three times and I guess it was the truth they said they had to boil that coffee and said this old man can drink it hotter than anybody and they said he took it right off the fire I don't believe it but they told and said that he took a big sip of it and said it got to burn him and said he squirted it out on his hound and said it burnt the hair off Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 his hound # Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 I'll never believe that # Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 some of 'em # can drink it hotter than others you know Interviewer: {NW} and that was that's really dramatic uh you know what would you call a dog that you couldn't that that uh really you couldn't couldn't wasn't much good for hunting or anything just uh 025: oh I don't know what you'd {X} call 'em it's cause like I told you yesterday about that boy dog that ain't worth a thing in the world only just than to eat Interviewer: uh huh 025: I don't know what you'd call 'em just a no count dog I reckon Interviewer: okay and then when they uh uh how long would they have a blacksmith here in uh in the valley 025: #1 oh # Interviewer: #2 was there a # 025: the last blacksmith the good blacksmith died I guess 5 6 years ago there ain't no blacksmith anymore I noticed the other day in the county people {X} shoe horses just cause these fellas were riding these horses in them but they have to be shod there ain't enough horses in {X} anymore but the last blacksmith in was like sharpening your tools for you and things you know Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 fella # here at the forks of the road he was an awfully good blacksmith I don't know he's been dead I guess 4 5 years and he's got a boy up here that could do a little blacksmithing but not much Interviewer: {NW} 025: them days when I was a boy everybody had a shop and bell and a certain handle and hammers and things they'd sharpen their plows and their mattocks and their tools you know Interviewer: did you ever do that yourself 025: I've done a little of it never was good at it Interviewer: tell me about it how with the with the uh shoeing how how that's done 025: well in the first place your shoes come your shoes then you took 'em and you turned 'em and you had to sometimes close 'em and sometimes those little horses feet was just like my and your feet they ain't all alike Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh they had to get 'em red hot and they had the rambler and their hammer and their tongs and they'd turn them and put them corks on them then where the nails went on them hold all had to be opened up they wasn't big enough for nails and then they'd take a punch and open them nails up then when they got that done well they'd take the horses foot and then take a drawing knife that was a thing with two handles I've got one out there and a rasp and they'd cut that foot down and then they'd rasp it and smooth it and get it level and then they'd put them shoes on and each side had 4 nails and they drove that in the hoof now they would a blacksmith had to know how to do it or he'd get into the quick you know it'd be like your fingernail Interviewer: yeah 025: see your fingernail I have that black part of my fingernail and cut it off Interviewer: #1 uh huh # 025: #2 you'd # get up above that you couldn't well they had to stay within ramp a blacksmith or man knowed horses know where that was there's ring around her you couldn't move back that ring sometimes they'd quick 'em and they'd have to take the shoe off Interviewer: uh huh 025: and they'd put them four nails in there and they'd drive them in there and them nails would come out up here they had the nails you know the nails just made in a way that they would come out Interviewer: {NW} 025: then they took the hammer and they took them off and then took the clippers and cut 'em off and then they'd put a piece of iron up there and then they'd clinch 'em Interviewer: uh huh 025: and then for horse who had a good tough foot they'd stay on there sometimes 'til it wore out but sometimes the foot'd grow out and they'd have to put 'em back a second time Interviewer: now you said you kept you've been calling them the feet but they're really 025: they're just hooves a horse would just Interviewer: yeah 025: get the hooves you know Interviewer: you ever played a game pitching those 025: yeah you take them old shoes or you take new ones now that there's a boy here that course you don't know much about horseshoes I don't guess but he had uh showed me some he used to work for hardware he live over here in Maryville now but we raised him here and he had he'd went and bought four of 'em he stayed we'd worked down there the hardware and they was selling out and they sold him them well an ordinary horse with a good foot would would use about a number 4 horseshoe well that boy's got some down there that they're number 8's biggest ones they used them now they had horseshoes up here on the little river that had feet that big and them 8's is as big as that Interviewer: uh huh 025: #1 now about old horseshoe # Interviewer: #2 {NW} uh huh # 025: I have one that I could show you if you wanna seen it Interviewer: like those horses that they uh 025: them northern horses have bigger feet if they was western horse they'd get them big ship 'em here a lot of 'em and they love them mountains up there Interviewer: Clydesdale's have great big feet 025: huh? Interviewer: Clydesdale's the kind that Bud- 025: #1 well these here they're big # Interviewer: #2 -weiser, see they pull beer trucks, the beer, beer wagon # 025: western horse and they shipped horses Interviewer: I guess that we're about uh about cattle and so forth and when a when a cow is about to give birth you'd say say the cow is going to 025: well we'd just say she's gonna have a calf that's just about it Interviewer: would you ever use drop a calf or come fresh? 025: well that's people talk about their cows you know and when a cow goes and cry you know before she has her calf and then the women'd talk about how our cows are gonna be fresh in a few days Interviewer: {NW} 025: well then when they're fresh and they'd let 'em go for about 2 weeks and then they'd go saving their milk again Interviewer: I see um 025: or they'd say a cow she's gonna drop a calf any day you know Interviewer: uh huh 025: something like that that that's just a old saying through here Interviewer: uh how did you you um call your cows in from the pasture 025: sook sook sook Interviewer: and how about to make 'em stand still at milking time 025: well there's different ways to do that some of 'em would stand still Interviewer: uh huh 025: you'd have to get 'em in the barn or somewhere or another and Interviewer: might you ever say anything 025: #1 I have # Interviewer: #2 to 'em # 025: had 'em so bad you'd have to maybe tie 'em up you gotta learn a cow to milk some's gentle and some ain't never gentle Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: and uh my wife's got a little old heifer here she got the calf young and she had her calf young and it come had to tuck away from her dad well she's got gentle and it was right out there and one of them wants to that's thing's got milk said I'm gonna out there and she went out there and just milked her right off the path first p- first time she's ever got the milk Interviewer: is that right 025: and you've got to learn 'em Interviewer: what do you say might you say to a cow to make her stand still when you're gonna milk her 025: make her feed her give her some bran Interviewer: do you ever say anything to her 025: well well pet 'em {X} was here you know I never did have patience enough to fool with one to get her gentle my wife'd always break 'em into milking her or something else Interviewer: #1 ever say ever say {X} uh huh # 025: #2 i have but there wasn't {X} bout it # say so or something like that you know and Interviewer: and 025: pat 'em and be good to 'em you can't you couldn't do much with a cow by whooping her Interviewer: {NW} 025: some people didn't have no more judgment than you know and they'd jump on 'em and kick 'em and beat 'em Interviewer: sure 025: that don't help that just makes 'em worse you've got to be good to a cow Interviewer: do you call calves differently 025: huh Interviewer: do you call a calf in a different way from the pasture 025: a calf Interviewer: or yeah 025: no they're just a calf 'til they get up so big and then they're called yearlings when they get a year old or a calf 'til they're a year old or then they're yearlings Interviewer: how about a call to horses to get 'em in from the pasture 025: well you just culp Interviewer: {NW} 025: say culp culp Interviewer: and a call to horses or mules to make 'em turn left and right 025: that was yee and haw Interviewer: did you ever do you ever use that with um with uh could you do that with with you could do that with both mules and and horses 025: you could take 'em my granddad had to do it with mares when I was a boy and you could plow them old mares without anybody Interviewer: {NW} 025: get a mare in that garden and you know and have how many rows and he could plow or a corn fields and there's one of 'em old mares he could plow without any bridle she'd just know gee and haw just as good as right and left Interviewer: {NW} 025: right was gee and left was haw Interviewer: how about to get a horse started when it's standing still 025: get up Interviewer: and to make a horse uh after it's going you want to keep her going 025: stop him Interviewer: yeah 025: you wanna stop him you say whoa Interviewer: okay and then how about if you wanted to get the horse to uh to uh back into a buggy 025: when you're done that you be you better be your lines Interviewer: uh huh 025: you didn't say much you just pull back on your lines cut him anyway you haven't bit you see you cut him anyway you wanted to go you just done a horse and a buggy just like you do a car Interviewer: uh huh or if a horse was uh uh did you ever did you ever back a horse up in one of these uh {NW} the uh the only time you back a horse up is when you're when you're 025: when you wanna turn around or something Interviewer: yeah 025: well you don't need to back it when you're going straight Interviewer: uh huh and you only say 025: you've got to turn you know now you take out here where you turn your car you want to turn a wagon just do it just like you do your car Interviewer: and you just do that by pulling the lines 025: pulling the lines Interviewer: now what do you say to pigs how'd you call call the hogs at feeding time 025: I only just {NW} I don't know just call say how did you do that I know the cows was sook I don't know you just call 'em then learn some different thing I don't know what the proper thing'd be Interviewer: #1 well it's it's # 025: #2 to call the hog # Interviewer: either sooey or 025: sooey well sooey that'd be to scare 'em sooey is to scare 'em away Interviewer: I see how about calls to sheep 025: well I don't know if there's any particular way I would wanna do that Interviewer: do you know if they ever said coo sheepie have you ever heard that 025: #1 well no # Interviewer: #2 in the valley # 025: you can just call a sheep most anyway you wanted to Interviewer: how about calls to chickens 025: well that was just the same way I don't know what you would just'd say to chickens chick chick chick Interviewer: okay 025: something like that maybe maybe come you could learn of course you could learn chicken or anything has to walk Interviewer: when you're getting uh getting a horse ready to to plow you have to do what do you have to do to it do you have to put put on the 025: yeah you've got to put his first thing you do is put the bridle on it and the next thing you do is put the collar on it and the next thing you do you put your harness on it Interviewer: {NW} 025: and then you hook him to whatever you're going to pull and you say get up and he goes Interviewer: okay 025: when you want him to stop you say whoa sometimes they listen at you and sometimes they won't Interviewer: uh huh now when you're uh when you're riding a saddle horse do you call those lines too or do you call them something else 025: that's a bridle a bridle with reins on it Interviewer: alright and the things you put your feet in 025: that's the stirrups Interviewer: and when you're plowing with uh two horses what do you call the horse on the left the one that walks in the furl 025: I know the one on the left you call him on the high side or in the ferry side Interviewer: {NM} 025: people plowed then you'd put that left hand horse in the prairie and then the and the left would be ha and they'd talk about I don't know where you'd ever hear it or not people'd till their land in different ways you'd take that piece of garden there {X} my granddad wouldn't pull the land out he'd pull it in Interviewer: {NM} 025: and uh if you wanted to pull the land in you'd start it in the middle Interviewer: {NM} 025: then when you got up yonder turn left and come back and pull that furrow up and then come back but if you wanted to that was a haw land and if you wanted to pull a gee land you'd pull your land out you'd tuck around it and and went plum round the whole field you see Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} yeah # Interviewer: call that the haw horse 025: haw land Interviewer: haw land 025: yeah and they'd had to pull turn to the left Interviewer: uh huh 025: well if you wanted to go round down the fall of the year when we after we'd plant corn or get our corn or sow wheat as a general rule we'd take that and fill it that outside you know Interviewer: {NW} 025: come together in the middle go plum around the field and uh but you had if you didn't well you'd have your land the big whole the big midge in the middle if you didn't bell to change it but on the outside you see you could turn and that last prairie would let the water drain off Interviewer: I see. Did you ever- 025: do that with this garden here and the water'd drain across the road right there there's a little puddle of water there yesterday you know I mean you went out there Interviewer: did you ever call that horse the lead horse 025: yeah Interviewer: did you ever here it called the haul horse #1 or the high horse # 025: #2 well that's # the lead horse you'd call that the lead horse or the haul the horse on the on the left to be the high horse you wouldn't Interviewer: okay 025: call it much but it's it always that'd be your lead horse if you had two horses you'd put the gentleman in the lead Interviewer: uh okay 025: and then he'd take care of the other one Interviewer: I see now then if a horse if if a man is is uh is if if someone's just standing here and he fell this way you'd say he was falling 025: backwards Interviewer: and if he fell this way 025: gone forwards it's called thataways called sideways Interviewer: right okay alright uh and then um uh the uh the what uh when you talk about planting whatever um whatever you uh say corn or something or or let's say wheat say we raised a big 025: crop you've got all about everything now but one thing you've Interviewer: #1 okay well could you # 025: #2 never touched # Interviewer: tell us 025: part with the fireman #1 in the old uh # Interviewer: #2 what's that # 025: there's the seasons and the signs Interviewer: oh okay 025: and the moon #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 now tell me a little about that # you wanna tell me a little about that I tell me a little about that 025: well you never you never got onto it I don't know Interviewer: yeah go ahead 025: you take all it out certain times you know in the moon to Interviewer: uh huh are those related to the months of the year or the days or anything 025: no it just went with the signs do you know anything about the #1 signs # Interviewer: #2 no # 025: well let me show you some Interviewer: well just tell me 025: I can learn you a whole lot and you can learn me some things Interviewer: okay 025: wait a minute but I'll show you about them now that was a great um thing that they {X} Interviewer: uh huh 025: well I just thought about that yesterday you gone over everything but that Interviewer: okay tell me a little bit about this 025: well now here you are your luck well you look here for the sun or the moon shows you where the moon fulls Interviewer: uh huh 025: the moon fulls well it hits it don't shine Interviewer: uh huh 025: when its new it shines Interviewer: {NW} 025: now you'll see here the seasons these one whatever that is there Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh you know the Bible speaks about the signs and the seasons Interviewer: {NW} 025: people a lot of people these here are Aggie country people don't pay no attention to that but the things there that works I've been raised to it and it works Interviewer: tell me about some of that uh the 025: well now for instance if you plant a uh uh some corn in a rich place and plant it on the new of the moon when the sign's in the head or the neck that corn grow up yonder and it'll stay straight up and it'll grow so high that you can't reach it to get it and the st- and the st- the ear will stay straight up won't hardly ever turn down when you plant corn then when the sun is down lower that corn won't grow so high and in the fall of the year when corn gets ripe that ear will turn down so the water won't run in it then when you get ready to gather it uh now that's nature this this this'll turn down the point of the hand of the ear of corn will turn down and you see that shuck and that water that ear of corn will just the same as in the dry it'll stand there all winter and not damage Interviewer: uh huh 025: and uh but if you plant it on the new of the moon and the signs in the head or the neck that'll grow so high in rich ground some more you can put it around where it'd been manure you can't reach it Interviewer: what other signs are there that 025: well now you'd taken a people are hauling out their stable manure Interviewer: uh huh 025: you'd haul that out on the new of the moon if you wanted to turn it Interviewer: uh huh 025: but if you didn't aim to turn it under you hauled it on the old of the moon you'd haul that on the old of the moon that manure would go in the ground you put it there on the new of the moon it stayed there all summer it wouldn't go in the ground Interviewer: uh huh 025: and people that could would try to cut their hay on the new of the moon if you cut the hay on the new of the moon it wouldn't lay so tight to the ground Interviewer: uh huh 025: and it would cure quicker and it'd be fluffy I have cut hay on the old of the moon and you and shock it up in shocks before I'd get the bailing hay and it'd be so just like a {X} you couldn't stick a fork in it Interviewer: uh huh 025: We'd hauling down there one time and my uncle was a helping and I said what tomorrow they say I said you can't get a fork in it well he then some words he'd say you know and say oh hell they said you cut it on the on the old of the moon now I said the moon's new tomorrow or the next day he said you cut some next week see the difference when I cut some the next week you know it had just stayed there 'til you can't hardly pack it on the wagon Interviewer: uh huh now were there anything that you that you that uh any other signs other than the new of the moon was was there a was there a 025: well now them signs I they start in the head and go into the feet Interviewer: uh huh 025: and you wanted to plant uh say Irish potatoes if you plant the Irish potatoes on the new of the moon and they'd stay right on top of the ground used to people's chickens would run up and eat 'em up Interviewer: #1 mean is it like # 025: #2 you got # plant Irish taters on the new of the moon and the signs were down in the thighs the legs the feet well they'll just ridge 'em up and they would just stay down there in the ground same way with with a lot of things had a fella told me one time said you dig a post hole and he's telling how to build a fence said build that dig that post hole on that new old of the moon well now people when they laid these old crooked rail fence were they laid them on the new of the moon Interviewer: uh huh 025: because they wouldn't go down Interviewer: did did 025: now that'll work I don't care what people tells you it'll work Interviewer: okay now how about do you do anything is is are any of these good signs like the lines in the thighs and the legs and the arms 025: well there's a sign there to plant a lot of things they's a there's a certain time I don't know when it is there's a certain time I used to know my wife I guess she'd know you plant beans in a certain sign and them beans won't run a stick no they won't run cone they would just lay on the ground Interviewer: uh huh 025: then you plant 'em at another time why they'll just run fences or anything now that that works now that's a we've tried it Interviewer: uh huh 025: you just lay there on the ground them beans will and rot Interviewer: can you think of any other examples of that uh of experiences you've had with the signs at work 025: well I've had all kinds of signs I was raised on 'em Interviewer: #1 sure # 025: #2 I read # and I followed 'em Interviewer: uh huh 025: we used to cover all of our buildings with uh boards well you cover a a building with boards on the new of the moon now that this is evident stuff I I know it to be fact them boards will turn up right in the middle and it won't last long and the water and the wind will blow the water in under them Interviewer: uh huh 025: and you take uh now we've got some old boards and we all just put 'em on the new uh old of the moon you lay 'em on the old of the moon and they'll lay flat they'll never turn up at the edges Interviewer: {NW} 025: they'll stay right there for 40 years good {X} Interviewer: {NW} 025: and I've seen houses where it hadn't been built long but they'd been covered on the new of the moon and then they just them boards just turns up in the middle Interviewer: uh huh 025: well now use to people to fish catch red worms you go out here and you can lay down two planks you can lay one down on the new of the moon and you can lay another down on the old of the moon that plank that you lay down on the old of the moon where the moon is full there you can get red worms um that fish with or you take out the other it'll turn up at both ends and it'll never lay down flat Interviewer: is that right 025: now I that that's that's not hearsay Interviewer: that's interesting 025: but a lot of people'd make fun of you and laugh at you well now when people trim their cattle or castrated them or they would try to do that on the old of the moon because they never did bleed so bad well they'd dehorn them my uncle used to have clippers and he'd go around Gatlinburg and back up in there when people'd have lots of cattle he'd always go on the new of the moon and I've learnt that from experience a cow dehorning a cow or cutting a calf bleed they won't bleed on the old of the moon like they do on the new of the moon and same with pulling your teeth Interviewer: is that right 025: they won't they just won't bleed so bad Interviewer: would a particular uh particular sign or just the new of the moon or was that like something like uh the uh the head or the 025: well well the moon there if you notices it moves the moon changes every other month Interviewer: sure 025: and then there's the quarters and then it Interviewer: yeah it looks like about couple days there's a different uh sign 025: well now the signs'll last probably two or three days or Interviewer: #1 yeah # 025: #2 starts # in the head and goes down into the neck and then into the arms and then on down into the bowels and then into the hip legs thighs and then into the feet Interviewer: anything any other anything else that he's talking about planting anything about harvesting the #1 {X} # 025: #2 no # no people don't pay no too much attention to that Interviewer: {NW} 025: it's just harvesting when they get to can Interviewer: it's mainly planting 025: it's mostly in planting Interviewer: {NW} 025: #1 now # Interviewer: #2 is there any # 025: these agriculture fellas these county agents they just laugh at you Interviewer: {NM} 025: when you talk about uh cutting your cash and things talking about planting uh this fella says we plant when the signs are there says we plant in the ground we don't plant in the signs Interviewer: uh huh but you've done this all your life though 025: been doing it all my life it works Interviewer: {NW} 025: it works if you stayed here long enough I'd show you that it did work Interviewer: {X} 025: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 No I I believe you # I I'd just like to know more about it that's all if you could tell me some other some other examples I 025: well now I don't know I could tell you {X} these things you know I don't think it'd come to me that fast Interviewer: sure 025: but uh that was the way about the hay and the and the corn Interviewer: anything anything special with with any other crops how about some of the the other kinds of vegetables 025: well now whenever we used to we paid no attention just you know sewing oats or wheat and stuff like that but we did in planting corn I know one time when I was a boy my granddaddy lay off his you don't it's hard to explain to you when you don't know much about farming Interviewer: sure 025: and uh they would lay off these rows 4 feet each ways each way and then you could plow your corn that way both ways Interviewer: uh huh 025: and I know one time we planted this corn we planted behind and cover it with a hoe and uh this corn just curled up and uh wouldn't come up out of the ground and we had to go over that whole field and take rake hoes and knock that crop off Interviewer: uh huh 025: and he said that he looked and he had planted it in the sign's in the bowels Interviewer: {NM} 025: he said that is what is the matter with it he said planted it in the signs and the bowels and it wouldn't come up Interviewer: uh huh 025: then I know my grandma would plant a lot of beets and she'd try to plant them beets in the sign's in the heart they'd be redder #1 uh huh # Interviewer: #2 the beans would b- # 025: beets would be redder when they's planted in the sign's in the heart than it was when it was planted somewhere else Interviewer: {NM} 025: now that worked that worked and I'd a woman told me when {X} your onions you had to be awful careful with 'em or they'd all rot we used to raise lots of onions and this woman said don't never gather put your onions up in the sign is in the heart he said we's pull a {X} up and she said neighbors come along he said don't never pull your onions up said them'll all rot said wait 'til the signs is in the heart and she said they took them in and said they all rot said the next week or so said they pull the rest of 'em up and the signs was in the out of the heart and said that never none of 'em rot Interviewer: is that right did they ever do anything with breeding animals 025: no we used to have to breed animals when they come in Interviewer: I see okay and also 025: whole moon new of the moon signs whatever Interviewer: okay and uh 025: #1 they just come in ever so often # Interviewer: #2 yeah yeah but uh # but now there was some there was some example of of of the onions of of of uh putting in those onions that wasn't planting them was it that was uh 025: well that was uh pulling 'em up you know when they got ripe you had to pull 'em up you know and let 'em dry out Interviewer: anything with anything with poultry uh signs related to 025: no I don't know where that ever happened to poultry Interviewer: uh huh 025: I'd heard a old timer say {X} on the new of the moon it'd grow faster than it did on the old but I don't know if that works or not but I do know these other things about the beans and the planting and then the manure and the boards Interviewer: anything with fruit trees um with signs 025: no I course I answer to then try to set these fruit trees my granddad set out all he set a lot of 'em try to set them on the old of the moon they because they would stay deeper in the ground Interviewer: {NW} what kinds of fruit trees did they 025: oh just different kinds he had orchards he owned big boundary of land over yonder Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 he had {X} a # all over the side of that mountain and them days they had mostly Sour Jons and Irelands and things like that and old apple wine saps now then there a lot of them old apples you can't you take for instance Sour Jons everybody knows what a was Sour Jon was even a child Interviewer: {NM} 025: made apple butter and jellies and Sour Jon Interviewer: {NW} what kinds of um uh uh what do you call that uh the center part of an egg 025: the yellow Interviewer: okay do you ever call that anything else 025: I don't know the yellow and then the whites the yolk Interviewer: uh huh the white's the yolk 025: it's the way I've always known Interviewer: okay um and then the uh uh stuff that people use to make bread rise 025: yeast Interviewer: okay and if you put an egg in water for 3 minutes that's uh 025: well I don't know much about cooking I don't know how long it takes egg to boil put a egg whole in water or you can take egg and get what you call a poaching egg you know you have to break it and drop it in the water and that'll cook there I guess in 3 minutes cause the water's hot enough Interviewer: okay now the uh uh uh what different kinds of um uh we're talking the the um the center the uh the center of a cherry that hard thing in the cherry what's that called 025: well that's the seed or maybe call it the pit I believe they called it but it's the seed that's what it really is Interviewer: how bout of a peach 025: well that's a seed Interviewer: and what uh the kind of a peach that separates easily 025: well that's the opened a cling peach a cling peach it won't hardly separate from the seed but them open I call 'em open something or another Interviewer: is it open stone or open 025: #1 open stone # Interviewer: #2 seed # 025: open stone you can just cut the peach in two you know and it don't none of it stick to the seed Interviewer: and the uh the center of an apple is uh 025: core Interviewer: and the nuts that grow underground I don't know if they grow 'em around here but 025: what Interviewer: uh nuts that grow underground P- oh you don't goobers goobers peanuts 025: oh yeah that's peanuts and things like that they used to have a thing here and they called artichokes they grow under the ground Interviewer: is that a nut 025: turnips they don't grow you know part of 'em grow in the ground part of 'em stayed on top you know Interviewer: what other kinds of nuts did uh 025: well I don't know what you mean {X} Interviewer: how bout the kind yeah what were you saying 025: I have a walnut cherry Interviewer: {NW} 025: and I have a big hickory nut grew there along the creek and another thing down in there that grows that uh is um well I mean what do you call them now they're a little nut and uh who got a pecan tree out there we sure don't want pecans there that grow down your way and direction Interviewer: yeah 025: having to stop down there and buy 'em Interviewer: walnuts when walnuts grow that that big green thing on the outside 025: that's the hull but you see when that hull dry up and you take it off and hull 'em Interviewer: yeah and what's underneath there that hard thing 025: that's the kernels then under that shell Interviewer: the part that you have to break with the hammers and 025: #1 yeah # Interviewer: #2 {X} # alright now we talked a little bit about vegetables uh yesterday but would you just kind of give me a a general rundown of the kinds of vegetables that you've grown on your farm just just go ahead 025: well Interviewer: #1 and especially when # 025: #2 we'd start # back in the old onion days the old potato onions and we'd start in the fall of the year when all of us sold a bunch of turnips about this time in the year you know and uh we'd always have a late crop of beans this time in the year takes beans about well whatever time summer come earlier than other years you have to get them beans off find a bean that'll get off in 90 days or something like that before frost Interviewer: {NM} 025: and then we'd plant that whole garden a true half acre and these old potato onions and when they got off well we'd plant something else always plant the beans and beets and peas and whatnot you know whatever you want Interviewer: uh now the kinds of beans that your wife's been canning what uh some of the names of those we were taking about 025: well I laid a whole there's a hundred there's dozens of different kinds of names but them big long pretty green beans that she had out there yesterday they was McKasleys they're a stick bean you grow 'em on a stick you have to stick 'em Interviewer: {NM} 025: well them others there that she had canned was uh was uh a short bean half runners they called 'em they're short not as long as these other and uh then when I was a well I don't see none of them anymore they was awful good beans to peddle on and to sell they called 'em Kentucky Wonders there's a big long bean Interviewer: was that a green bean or 025: yeah the other's a stick bean and the tender bean now there's a tender bean and a hull bean a tough hull a tough hull bean there's a bean that you've got to shell 'em it's like you know them you seen out there yesterday they're a tough hull you can't hardly cook 'em and eat 'em an old tough bean Interviewer: do you call those tender beans green beans 025: #1 tender beans # Interviewer: #2 soft # 025: is the general rule to stick beans they grow on sticks use to people grow them in corn but you don't do that anymore you just graze 'em and you some people sticks 'em on sticks and some fix a string for 'em to run up used to I'd plant 'em through here and have a string that run from here to the garden and then I'd tie a string you could tie a string down here round that bean and then tie that string up here to string that you had on poles through there and it'd grow up that string and they'd hold 'em Interviewer: how bout the large yellowish green beans that you have to shell kind of yellow flat 025: that must be the kind that sh- she had out there the other day they call shelly beans Interviewer: uh huh is that the same thing as uh a butter bean 025: no a butter bean's flat bean Interviewer: uh huh and they um uh these things would grow on vines you put a stick in the ground its a kind of a big red thing 025: that you must mean tomatoes tomatoes you're talking about Interviewer: yeah what about the little ones 025: well they call them tomatoes the little ones now that these thing eh you've got to understand these little tomatoes is volunteers you take a little tomato while seeds are still down and they come up they're them little tomatoes some of 'em make very {X} and some of 'em will get to be as big as hen egg and uh they're called tomatoes but they're volunteer stuff Interviewer: {NW} 025: you can get the seed out of 'em and plant 'em and you can yet have 'em but uh they're but you know people'd throw out seeds and you'd get out somewhere or another and you'd find a vine of them in different place well you were talking the other day about finding the vines somewhere out here Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: and uh they grow them little ones but you can sew them seeds and still get the little ones but ain't nobody wants to fool with 'em little ones you know children likes 'em I like 'em I'd rather have the little tomatoes are the big in and some of 'em are big from a big {X} hen eggs Interviewer: now the kind would you call all of those those those tender beans though are the all of those kind that you that you don't have to shell would you call those all green beans 025: uh I'd go yeah that'd be green beans tender beans they'll all you can take any kind of a bean and they'd grow up and get ripe and shell it Interviewer: A-huh 025: get them shelly beans out of it you'd take these beans you'd buy you know pintos and them they'd use them thrash them out with some i don't know thrashing machine you know and clean 'em Interviewer: you wouldn't call uh a butter bean a shelly bean 025: well I think that's what they're supposed to be to be hulled and eat that way they're a flat bean I don't know how I don't normally ever eat any of 'em dry but I bought 'em we don't never raise 'em but I have bought 'em you know butter beans Interviewer: on the top of a cornstalk that thing you take off is the 025: that thing on the top is a tassel Interviewer: and then on the on the ear itself 025: that's uh that's the silk Interviewer: and when you eat the corn right on the cob what do you you call that 025: roasting ear Interviewer: okay now some these are some things that grow on the ground um they um uh different kinds of things well some of the big orange things grow right on the ground 025: that's cantaloupes I guess you're talking about Interviewer: okay uh now is there anything else like a cantaloupe 025: well nothing like a cantaloupe uh well watermelon here look like that they grow on the ground Interviewer: did you ever raise watermelon 025: we used to we don't anymore Interviewer: #1 what kind # 025: #2 we used to # Interviewer: you remember some of the some of the varieties 025: I don't know the difference of the names they're just watermelon you can get the seed here and yonder the different kinds of watermelon like everything else you know did did you raise any squash yeah Interviewer: what kinds 025: well there's different kinds of squashes there's a round there's squash sorta like a pumpkin only it's got a neck to it you know and then there's these these squashes you know they'd be about inside of some size of that you know on up to a wash pans big as that Interviewer: {NW} 025: I don't know what you call them it's different there's a lot of different kinds of squashes now Interviewer: how bout those big things the kids to Halloween they 025: that's pumpkins they'll grow as big as sometimes they'd grow awful big {X} so big you can't lift her Interviewer: now the the 025: these children want the little ones you know that they can handle for Halloween Interviewer: and these little things that grow on the right they come up after a rain and they look like little umbrellas 025: I don't know what you call them I know what you're talking about but I don't remember what you call them you ain't got no name for a Maggie Interviewer: well mushrooms or mushrooms or 025: yeah that well that's there's a lot of things that will come up after a rain mushrooms are what you mean I guess Interviewer: and then there's also a kind that's poison supposedly that you eat 'em you get sick 025: well them mushrooms I don't know some people cook mushrooms we never did Interviewer: #1 have you ever heard # 025: #2 they'll grow up # you know after a rain they'll come up overnight and then disappear Interviewer: have you ever heard of anything called either frog stools or toadstools 025: yeah Interviewer: which are those 025: well I've heared of toadstools that's something there a little something there that comes up sort of like like you're talking about the mushrooms they're different shapes Interviewer: A-huh 025: but they're not worth anything they just they some of these things you know will spring up after a rain overnight Interviewer: yeah 025: disappear Interviewer: now what do you call that that do you have that that bird around here that makes a hooting sound 025: that's a hoot owl Interviewer: and there's a smaller one that makes a 025: well they's they's uh two or three kinds of them little hooting owls they some of them scream big you know some of 'em smaller and uh them old big 'uns they're the one that get out here and holler and hoo hoo hoo hoo Interviewer: they have one that 025: then they some of 'em that ain't so big they call them there's a night owl they get out and holler at the night you know Interviewer: they're called a screech owl or a 025: screech owl yeah that's them smaller ones them's screech owls Interviewer: now how bout that bird that gets up on the tree and 025: pecks Interviewer: yeah 025: yeah well we call 'em pecker bugs and some call 'em {D: pegger} bugs and some woodchucks and one another they'd get to aggravate us to death here they got them pecking on the chimneys now they'll get they some of them they're redheaded you know and they'll make they're pretty they're just pretty as they can be but they'll aggravate you to death they'll ruin your house Interviewer: are those the ones you call woodchucks or uh 025: no we just call them little red headed pecker bugs now a woodchucks something like 'em there's two or three kinds here theres a big 'un and a little 'un them little 'uns don't give so much trouble them big one does this last spring my wife shot two in one shot Interviewer: is that right 025: four hundred and ten shotgun out there on that walnut three he was sitting up there pecking you know and I reckon she got them right in the opposite she got them both in one shot Interviewer: is that right your wife shot 025: yeah Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 four ten shotgun # Interviewer: #1 you told me yesterday # 025: #2 she through with a shotgun # Interviewer: {NW} you told me that yesterday yeah 025: pretty good with a shotgun Interviewer: {NW} 025: ain't shoot a pistol won't to do no good you shoot she pull the trigger Interviewer: that's terrific um this little animal that has a bad smell 025: that's a pole cat and if you ever smelled one they are a bad smell Interviewer: yeah I sure have. 025: can't stand them Interviewer: yeah uh they yeah what would you call a now this uh little animals that come around and get into your chickens and 025: well them's a there's different things that'll get in your chickens there's uh what you're talking about is a weasel Interviewer: uh huh 025: possums'll eat 'em up and we have to catch possums {X} chicken house they'll eat the chickens up around me but these old weasels they used to you know they're a little old funny looking thing they can get in the little hole Interviewer: do you ever call those a general name possums weasels all these things 025: eh there's just possums and weasels and Interviewer: call 'em varmints 025: varmints course it'd be varmints pests or something Interviewer: would you ever use the word varmints for talking about people 025: well I hear people call varmints you know Interviewer: uh huh {NW} yeah 025: that ain't no name for people that's just somebody saying you know varmint the varmint is some of these things you're talking about we're bothered by a lot of these stuff hell even minks come up this creek and uh the pole cats don't do so much trouble out here but you take on down the highway yonder you can go down there most any morning and you'll find them lame things they come here we can smell 'em but we don't never see 'em they don't come often but you can smell 'em you can smell 'em for a mile Interviewer: now how bout these little animals that run up trees 025: well they I don't know what you mean there unless it's flying squirrel ground squirrel I guess Interviewer: #1 what other what other kinds of # 025: #2 squirrels and gray squirrels # Interviewer: what other kinds of squirrels do they have 025: gray squirrels you know they're digging up peach you know they got big long bushy tails {NS} and uh they get every few years they get numerous one here they got so thick they'd come here and eat walnut trees they wouldn't kill them or come from the house but now little grandson over there he was several years ago he killed over a hundred over there on that hill and there along the creek they go where there's nuts Interviewer: what kind of squirrel is that 025: they're gray squirrels then there's another squirrel gray squirrel that's a little darker color and a little bigger than the gray squirrel they call 'em the fox squirrel Interviewer: uh huh 025: he's a little bigger and browner Interviewer: uh huh 025: instead of a gray it's a brown gray Interviewer: what about that kind that's only you only find it up in the mountains 025: well now these squirrels are just squirrel I reckon you'd find them well I don't know what you're talking Interviewer: you have one you call them boomer 025: yeah yeah well they's a boomer Interviewer: now how what's that how does that differ from an ordinary gray squirrel 025: well now there's some difference I don't know whether is I saw them or not but they're a squirrel something like a squirrel only they're different some way I don't know is ever I've seen one I reckon they grow mostly back on the mountains or something Interviewer: now these things that uh pearls are supposed to come in 025: what Interviewer: pearls you know that oy- 025: oh them's is oysters Interviewer: yeah now {X} Interviewer: Now how about these these little things that make a croaking noise? 025: Well what do you mean crickets or? Interviewer: Well these are these are larger things that make uh kind of uh uh there there you see them down at you find 'em down around the creeks and they they hop. 025: Grasshopper. Interviewer: Yeah well these are yeah but now these are things that they get pretty good size and you sometimes they eat 'em. They eat the legs. 025: Oh that's bullfrogs. Interviewer: Yeah now what other things are kind of like that the small ones that make a peeping #1 sound? # 025: #2 Well now # there's two kinds of frogs these old bullfrogs stays in the water and that's what you eat. #1 And then these # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: old toad frogs. Well they ain't sat around here I ain't seen none of 'em lately. {D: They just go around and} catch flies and they'll just sit there and eat them flies. If you don't catch 'em well they look like they're gonna bust. #1 And they'll # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: hop around hide around on the floors in the bath. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And uh these old bullfrogs they stay in the water now people will gig them {D: and uh they'll catch 'em.} #1 And eat # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: the hind legs that's all about 'em. I never did eat #1 none of 'em you know. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Seen 'em and caught 'em but I never would eat frogs. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: #1 My # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: grandmother used to eat mud turtles. Had 'em old turtles you know. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 {X} # Had a lot of good eating in them. They had white meat in 'em. #1 Their # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: necks and just like the breast of a chicken. She used to eat 'em. Interviewer: How about the kind that live on land what are they called? 025: What? Interviewer: Now the turtles that live on land. #1 Or do they? # 025: #2 {X} # Well now a lot of these lives on land but I don't know none of 'em ain't got another thing there that's a hard shell turtle that lives on dry #1 land. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # #1 You ever # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: call that a terrapin or #1 terrapin? # 025: #2 That's a # terrapin. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: People'll get them you know and they'll cut their names on 'em and then we find 'em in ten fifteen year {D: later.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now do you have a name for those those very small frogs that maybe you see 'em after a rain you #1 might see? # 025: #2 Them's # tree frogs. Little frogs {D: way up} in the trees. Interviewer: Yeah. Um. 025: They'll holler you know. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 Make # a racket. Interviewer: Now you talked about uh the crawfish before. The crawfish {D: you land.} Do you ever call them anything else besides crawfish? 025: Eh we ever call 'em crawdads. #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Craw crawfish. Interviewer: And these little insects that you see flying things that fly around a lamp? 025: Uh them's a uh {D: some kind of flies I don't know what they're called. I know} what you're talking #1 about. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {D: You take in} summertime they can get all over. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 Electric # flies out #1 there. They # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: go to light. Millers or miller. Miller I believe #1 they call them. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # And how about the kind that get in your clothes? 025: Them's moths. Interviewer: And this kind that light up at night? 025: That's butter that's uh uh {NW} butter. Lightning bugs you're #1 talking about. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Lightning bugs. Interviewer: Now how bout that kind with a long thin body that you sometimes see 'em down and around the branches or the streams little streams that they have a long thin body with uh slender wings? They kind of hover #1 around. # 025: #2 Them be a # lizard. {X} Interviewer: No these are flying #1 things. # 025: #2 Oh # I don't know it unless it'd be butterflies. Interviewer: Well do you ever {D: think a} snake uh 025: No Interviewer: #1 snake you ever ever hear of a snake # 025: #2 that no no flying # #1 snake. # Interviewer: #2 snake feeder? # 025: Huh? Interviewer: Snake feeder. 025: Well now yeah that may be what you're talking about. Interviewer: What is that? 025: Well that's something like you're talking #1 about. {X} # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 What do you call it? # 025: Well I {NW} how about a while ago you was talking about lizard. But now lizards and these snake feeders are different #1 things. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {D: But I} I've seen 'em and I know what you're #1 talking about. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: But I don't know whether they feed snakes or #1 not. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: But they're a thing that sort of you described. I guess that's what you're talking #1 about. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # What kinds of stinging insects do you have around #1 here? # 025: #2 Well # we have plenty of 'em. Interviewer: {NW} Tell me about some of 'em. 025: {NW} Wasps gives us more trouble than anything else. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Hornets'll build big nests around. {D: And our faucet's} polluted now with uh bumblebees. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Out there well we went in there yesterday. #1 Went out # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: trucking. I we should've got it out but I wasn't able to get it then. {D: They put an ol' mattress.} Somebody left us {D: bed a mat or something here and they stuck at up over half.} Well them there bumblebees is in that mattress and last year there was a woman that come here and my wife was gonna give it to her but we never did get it out. I aimed to get it out in the winter never did get it. And they're back in it again. #1 {D: While we're out} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: yonder they'll get in that old house where we was at #1 yesterday. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: They'll get in the barn. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And uh yellow jackets. {NW} Yellow jackets is mean when you've got fruit like #1 apples # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: or something another. Interviewer: #1 How about? # 025: #2 And the wasps # them wasps is the meanest {D: though.} Interviewer: Which kind what kinds do those are there different kinds? 025: Well they're just no it's just wasps. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: They'll build you know up under the corner of the house and around the {D: mountains just} {D: sting you to get out here in the bushes and} Interviewer: Yeah. 025: I know a year or two ago I was out there mowing and I got my hound to get in the bush. I didn't know the wasps was #1 there. I didn't # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: {D: think to cover you up.} Interviewer: #1 I saw that {X} # 025: #2 And we # hunted these awful mean stinging. {NS} Interviewer: Um the um how about that kind of uh uh a wasp that doesn't sting. It builds a nest out of mud under the? 025: Oh that's dirt dauber. {NS} Interviewer: #1 And then the uh # 025: #2 They're dirt daubers. # Interviewer: okay and the kind these little things that that that light on you and draw blood? 025: Eh you mean ticks? Interviewer: Yeah well these are big. These fly uh and there are have these very you know mosquit- 025: Skeeters? Interviewer: Yeah. And then these things that dig into your skin I suppose ticks do that but these are? 025: Eh you gotta be careful them ticks them ticks has got {D: foil.} #1 You can't # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: get them doggoned things turned loose. They'll burrow their head up and you can't get 'em loose. You can put turpentine and {D: cool oil or whatnot.} {D: and they's got hard to turn loose at all.} They're dangerous. # 025: #1 Give you # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: tick fever. Interviewer: Now how about uh now there's something else that's {X} also burrows into your skin if you're walking and you don't have boots on. 025: Well that's them damn chiggers you're talking #1 about. You # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: can't see them Interviewer: Yeah. 025: But you can sure well {D: as sure as hell get 'em.} Interviewer: Yeah. 025: But they're so little you can't see 'em. Interviewer: Now uh a small fish that you use for bait. You'd what would you call that? 025: That's a minnow. Interviewer: All right and I don't know if we talked about uh did we talk about um uh uh sugar maples uh yesterday I don't remember uh if we did if we didn't uh let me ask you about that did uh uh did you ever do they have uh sugar sugar maple #1 trees? # 025: #2 Oh there's # maples here but nobody never did tap 'em but I don't know why we didn't get any s- sugar out of them. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {D: Have to be all} kinds of maples still {D: are plenty of 'em around here yet} but I never know why they never taps 'em. Interviewer: And the um the kind of tree that George Washington chopped down? 025: Oh that's the cherry tree. They they don't last long cherries don't. You can't hardly get a cherry to live long enough. There's a few in this community. Well my sister's got some up there. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: We used to have 'em but you just can't get a cherry tree to live long. #1 They're like # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: peaches. Used to you could get a peach tree to live for years now then if you can get one or two crops off a peach tree you've done well. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: There's just there's something to kill all these things you know. Just like the {D: well} the chestnut trees. They were killing the pine timber now. Some kind of insect things and and uh these trees if you don't spray 'em and keep after 'em #1 they just # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: don't last. Now you take these big orchards. They spray you know and Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: and uh if we could do that we could raise a lot of these things. But uh something happened to peaches. They #1 just # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: quit growing in #1 this community. # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 025: They used to be pretty good. Interviewer: How about a uh a kind of a shrub that's leaves turn very red in the fall of the year? Um and they um uh it uh grows along the side of the road or by fences and the leaves turn bright red very early. Years ago they used to use the uh uh these little berries or bobs on 'em for uh tanning leather. 025: I don't know now what you're talking #1 about . {X} # Interviewer: #2 They're shoemakers? # 025: things then there's a shoemake. #1 But I don't # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: know whether they're used for tanning leather #1 or not. # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: I've seen plenty of them. Interviewer: Okay. And uh 025: #1 I don't know what # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: {D: there was ever a fur.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. #1 Okay. {NW} # 025: #2 I don't know if they were using # tan leather with it. Interviewer: Okay well I think that uh that some #1 parts. # 025: #2 I'll # tell you what they used to do a lot of in this country here tan leather. They used to build a tanning mill here a while a big concern {D: for} employed a lot of people. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh they used them old uh them old uh chestnuts they'd saw that up and make acid wood out of it. And they'd use that for tanning and then later on they got to taking old barks {up.} Chestnut oak is the best thing. Any kind of a good oak that would peel #1 you know and they'd # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: haul that. Loads and loads they used that to um grind up you know and make that acid out of it to tan the cowhides. Interviewer: What do you call that vine that you get a rash from if you touch it? 025: That's poison {X} #1 Called what? # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: Poison vine. #1 Ivy. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: Poison #1 ivy. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # #1 What kinds of? # 025: #2 You will # get a rash too. It'll put #1 your eyes # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: out if it get in your eye. Interviewer: What kinds of berries grow around here? 025: {D: Well eh.} Used to be lots of blackberries. {D: But right now being} season where you've got any growers. And uh huckleberries'd grow on the mountain you know {D: and little} blackberries also {D: grow there.} They'd grow on the mountains. Interviewer: #1 How about? # 025: #2 Woodlands # {D: and} there used to be a big old gooseberry. That was a sort of a bitter berry but oh folks'd get people to #1 pick. # Interviewer: #2 How about the # big red berry that you make uh sometimes? Straw? 025: You must be talking about cherries. Interviewer: Or straw? 025: #1 Huh? # Interviewer: #2 Strawberry. # 025: Strawberries grows on the ground. Interviewer: Yeah. Now a kind of a uh of a of a bush like it's a big kinda almost like bush like tree that grows under the mountains. Uh might help if a laurel. Does a laurel grow around here? 025: {X} Yeah they grow around here but they grow in the woods. Interviewer: Uh-huh. #1 Now how about? # 025: #2 {X} # bought a lot up here in this subdivision. You still got it. It's got a lot of them laurels on it. They're just a big leaves Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And they's ivy. There's ivy that grows in the woods. It'll poison your cattle. People used to have a lot of trouble with that. They'd eat that ivy and it'll poison their cattle. It's got a leaf but it ain't near as big as the laurel. The laurel has a bigger leaf. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Bigger. Grows bigger. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Do they is there any rhododendron or magnolia around here? 025: {D: Well out here to about the end of it} there's none around here I don't know where that grows. {D: Whether it} well I guess it grows in the woods in the mountains. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Ridge hollows and fern. There used to be a lot of fern over there them hollows. That cattle'd live on the- eat them. Interviewer: #1 was there {X} # 025: #2 {X} them # big deep ridge hollows on the #1 mountain. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Was there anything called sweet fern? 025: Yeah I've heared that. Interviewer: #1 You know what that is? # 025: #2 But I don't # know I don't know. My wife might know. I don't know what it was. Some kind of a fern you know that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh a woman whose husband is dead she'd be called a? 025: Widow. Interviewer: And a um. 025: and if her and her man separated in divorce she's a grass #1 widow. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Okay good. That's good. All right. # And if a uh uh we're talking about your your children before you have uh here you you said your son and your the woman who works in you said in Gatlinburg that's your? 025: My daughter. Interviewer: Yeah. And uh uh a woman who assists with a when she was little she'd say she was a little boy she was a little? {X} Not a boy but a? 025: Girl? Interviewer: Sure. That's uh I wasn't expecting any strange word that was just for pronunciation. The um uh in the years ago before they had uh the hospital was available um there might have been a woman in the community who helped. 025: Oh lord yeah there's an old woman over here she has my wife saying she got all the children this country. She got all of mine but my boy and #1 she # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: did then she done better than the doctors done. Interviewer: Is that right? 025: She'd come to your home you know and go and get her and she'd come to your home and then she'd have woman get along just as well. I never knowed her to lose many. Interviewer: What do they call a woman who does that? 025: They call her a midwife. Interviewer: Okay did they ever #1 call her? Yeah okay. # 025: #2 Granny woman. {X} # Interviewer: And when a woman's gonna have a baby you'd say she's? 025: Pregnant. Interviewer: And uh a child born out of wedlock now there there used to be a uh humorous names for? 025: Eh they'd call them them days bastards or now they're #1 illegitimates. Illegitimate children. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. Yeah. # #1 Did they ever use the # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: term either a field o- field colt or a uh catch colt or a woods colt? 025: Woods colt. Interviewer: #1 Did you ever hear it called? # 025: #2 Called woods # colts if the woman had one unmarried you know. Interviewer: #1 All right. # 025: #2 Somebody # {D: tell now come come round the other day about that} trying to get something straightened out and said well now she was a woods colt. Interviewer: Uh huh now if uh uh your brother's son what would his relation be to you? 025: My brothers son? Interviewer: Yeah. 025: I'd be his uncle. Interviewer: And and he'd be your? 025: Nie- nephew. Interviewer: Yeah and a child whose parents are dead is a? 025: Orphan. Interviewer: And uh and uh the the court then might have to appoint a? 025: Well a orphan {D: that way if you're} under a minor. See if I had minor children and or my boy now my boy where he's got them two there #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: they'd be minors. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Well if he left an estate or something like that. {D: More} more than his wife was allowed to take care of 'em. Well they'd have to appoint a somebody you know to. Interviewer: #1 Call that a guard? # 025: #2 Take care of that # money you know and. Interviewer: Call that person a guar- 025: A guardian. Interviewer: All right. 025: A guardian. Interviewer: And all the people related to you. You'd call them your? 025: Well they'd be your cousins as far down as you can go I #1 reckon. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: After you pass uncles and aunts you get down into your #1 cousins. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # But all of 'em together you might call them your? Call 'em your? 025: Eh some kind of relation. Here about two weeks ago there's a bunch of {D: Kraussens} come here from Mississippi. Six of 'em and I had that paper that I showed you the other day that #1 wasn't # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: interesting to you. It was to them you #1 know and uh # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: {NW} they think we're kinfolks and I guess we are way off. But lord only knows how far off you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. now if someone uh comes to town comes to the valley you've never seen them before. What would you call that person? 025: It'd be a stranger. Interviewer: Uh would you ever call a uh a person like that a foreigner? #1 Uh. # 025: #2 No # foreigners is people that's come from some other country you know out of the United States. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 Call # them foreigners. {X} what we do I reckon I'd {D: be about} #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 All right. # Now a um. 025: #1 Wouldn't be # Interviewer: #2 Uh. # 025: an American. Interviewer: Okay. They um uh if you had a uh if there was a uh uh uh a minister or a preacher uh preacher in the country country who um who um who really wasn't a uh very well trained. What might you call him? 025: Eh I'd call him a jackleg preacher or something Interviewer: #1 All right okay. # 025: #2 like that you know it's just {X} # {X} Interviewer: Would you ever use uh jackleg for for any other? #1 {X} # 025: #2 Lawyer. # jackleg lawyer. Some lawyer that wasn't no good you know. You'd call him a jackleg lawyer. You know there's good lawyers and #1 then there's lawyers and # Interviewer: #2 Sure. {X} # 025: {D: things you just} be a jackleg lawyer or jackleg minister I've heared that old #1 expression. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. Uh. # have you ever heard of a jackleg uh carpenter? 025: well I've heared of rough carpenters that'd be a jackleg carpenter. A fella that don't know much carpenter work you know can't do a good job of #1 it. He'd be # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: called a jackleg or a rough carpenter. #1 or you'd just # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: mostly call him a rough #1 carpenter but # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 025: that jackleg is used pretty often on lawyers and maybe preachers #1 you see. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: A jackleg. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: Or doctors. Some doctor. They're called quacks. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: A doctor that ain't a good doctor is called a #1 quack. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: We used to have a doctor woman that Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 lived up here. # And then we had an awful good doctor over here Townsend. And she didn't like him you know and she'd call him a damn quack. Interviewer: Uh-huh. {NW} #1 Uh. # 025: #2 But # he was a good doctor. #1 He was # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: good a doctor as they've got in the hospital. I went to all of 'em. I went to him and the doctors there he done me just as much good as the doctor did down at the hospital. Interviewer: All right. 025: Was a good doctor. but he was a man that's crippled up. He educated himself for a lawyer or #1 something another and # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: and he got crippled up you know uh up broke up the back playing basketball and he #1 finally # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: made a doctor and he's a good one. Interviewer: Do you remember in uh in the Bible in the in the the names of the sisters of Lazarus? The two sisters? 025: well I don't know is I just I've heared the Bible read a lot and read a lot myself. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: But I don't know Interviewer: #1 Well Jesus # 025: #2 just off they would be. # Interviewer: The mother of Jesus her name was? 025: Mary. Interviewer: And then there was and then there was Lazarus there were two sisters Mary and? 025: Mary and well there's a Mary Magdalene. #1 Mary # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: Magdalene. I've heared that #1 preached on. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Yeah how bout Marth- #1 Mary and Martha. # 025: #2 Martha. # They was supposed to be sisters #1 wasn't they? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # And then uh if a if a girl's name is Helen. Then they might call her something for short. 025: well they'd call her Helen or Helen {C: pronunciation} or something #1 another. # Interviewer: #2 How about Nell? # 025: A little girl up here in the her name's Helen you know and I've heared my s- she's the only child uh you know and Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: good little girl. I've heard my son-in-law call her hellion. {C: pronunciation} Hellion. Hellion. {NW} Interviewer: #1 That's good. # 025: #2 {NW} # {X} call these Helen. She'd call 'em Helen. Helen {C: pronunciation} or something #1 like that. # Interviewer: #2 Helen. {C: pronunciation} # 025: But it's all Helen #1 that's all. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. That that # was there any uh how about the name uh the name Nellie? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Nellie. 025: Abigail Nellie you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Never get the Nellie hardly ever just do Nell. We've got a neighbor up here Nell. Got one down here named Nell there's two Nells right #1 here. # Interviewer: #2 Was # there anybody did you did you know any people any any girls in the in the in the community called Sarah was named Sarah was that? 025: {D: Uh yeah that's sure is.} Lots of 'em. My wife had a sister named Sarah. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Now you get down to the Martha's in this country. They'll go by Marthy or Matt. Interviewer: #1 Oh is that right? # 025: #2 Marthy or # Matt. Now I had a ol' aunt down here that some of 'em would call her aunt Martha Kraussen and some of 'em would call her aunt Matt Kraussen. #1 I had another one # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: up here {NW} that's kin to us {X} and they'd call her aunt Matt or aunt Marthy. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: but Marthy and Matt's I reckon's supposed to be about the same thing. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: When you take Elizabeth she'd go by Liz. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Aunt Liz. Interviewer: What do you call a man who presides over a over a county court? He'd be the? 025: He'd be the county judge I #1 guess. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # And a per- and uh and a and a and a child going to school he'd be a? He's in school. 025: Well I don't know what you mean now {D: unless he'd be a f-.} be a juvenile #1 course he's # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: get in trouble #1 he's a # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: juvenile. Interviewer: Yeah when he's in school though you'd call him uh a you know a person who studies is in school you'd call him a? Stud- a uh a student or a #1 pupil? # 025: #2 Student # or pupil that's all I'd Interviewer: #1 And a # 025: #2 {X} # Hard to know what you was getting #1 at. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # I'll I didn't I wasn't very clear. the um uh uh a woman who in an office who uh who works in an office she might be called a? 025: Well they're different things you know she could be called a s- a secretary or Interviewer: #1 Now say. # 025: #2 something like # that. These here doctors has them women and what do they call them. They call them a receptionist. #1 Receptionist something like that you know. Uh whatever # Interviewer: #2 Sure. Yeah. Receptionist. Um. {X} # 025: they are. Interviewer: {NW} We were talking yesterday about uh you mentioned uh uh negroes and whites and now the um uh. What would you call a child born of a racially mixed marriage with one black parent and one white? 025: Uh well I don't know I guess call 'em a half nigger I reckon. Interviewer: Okay and then I do you have any special special names for uh for uh for uh uh people in uh in the community who might not take care of their property and um maybe they they're dependent upon other people for they they just they can't take care of themselves and they let their property #1 get all {X} # 025: #2 Yeah they just # call them just no kempt. {NW} Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Yeah and and what are some names that if you heard any there's a there's one name in particular I wanna ask you about but just names for they use for for people who live out in the country live up in the mountains they call 'em? 025: Hermits. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: I read in the other day here in the Interviewer: {X} 025: Knoxville Journal about a man that the park rangers had found over here you know. #1 And the park # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: ranger had trouble with him and finally he got throws rocks at him and he got in his car and he still throwed rocks. They called him a wild man. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: {X} He's over was over on the North Carolina side. Interviewer: All right. Now did but the did they ever use the term uh uh a mountain hoosier or a mountain 025: #1 Yeah I've # Interviewer: #2 hoosier? # 025: heared that here. the mountain hoosier that's just a fella that uh that don't mean now like these #1 fellas with # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: they called him mountain hoosiers say a fella like {X} to go somewhere or another there and then come out of the mountain. Raid the mountain. That'd be a mountain hoosier. Interviewer: I see. 025: But you never hear that mentioned on people live here but if uh way back yonder you know when #1 a man'd # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: live in the mountains and he'd go to town or something and he didn't know the town ways {D: and all they'd go and} look at him and call him a mountain hoosier. Interviewer: I see. 025: It's like I hear the fella over here at Townsend saying world war one. He said uh we had to get the birds you know the farm. Interviewer: uh huh 025: Then he said if there wasn't a far- said then before they do that then they said they'd gone down old mountain Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh.Yeah. # 025: #2 hoosiers. Hoosiers. # Interviewer: Now if if a person has a uh uh has a cold and talks like this you'd say he's? 025: Well they'd call that {D: laryn-} they used to call that tonsillitis. #1 Now they # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: call it {D: laryng-} something or another something else but back in the old days my grandma used to {X} They'd call it tonsillitis. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 {X} # #1 Now # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: what is they call it. They call it uh Interviewer: #1 Maybe laryngitis. # 025: #2 {D: Laryngitis.} # Interviewer: Yeah but #1 they they uh. # 025: #2 That's # in your in your gland. Interviewer: Yeah what do you call this part of your? Right here. 025: Swallower. Interviewer: Yeah. Do you ever call it anything else? 025: No. Interviewer: You call it a goozle? 025: Yeah you goozle it you swallow it. Interviewer: Um the whole thing around here would be your? 025: That'd be your neck. #1 Back around that # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: should be your throat. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And then on down further now people has bronchitis. That's in the upper part of your lungs. #1 is the way I understand it. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. Yeah. # When a person has a has a sore throat though and he might uh have laryngitis or tonsillitis and he talks like this he might you might say he's hoa-? 025: He's hoarse. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And this is uh uh uh this is just one? 025: That's your upper plate. Interviewer: Yeah or just one? 025: Huh? Interviewer: One what? Just one? You know this is just one uh? 025: Well I don't know just exactly there what Interviewer: #1 Yeah. Well if well. # 025: #2 you mean. {X} # I've got false teeth. #1 And that's # Interviewer: #2 Oh. # 025: my upper plate and my lower #1 plate. # Interviewer: #2 Sure a lot of # {X} but he but but what originally you had but the doctor pull out the dentist would pull out a? 025: {D: Well now right here would} be your eye tooth. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And then between your eye teeth here is your front teeth. #1 And after you # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: get behind that'd be your jaw teeth. #1 And later # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: on in life I don't know whether you ever had it or not. I have. your wisdom teeth comes #1 out when # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: you get up about grown. Interviewer: Sure. 025: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Now # 025: I've had my #1 first one. # Interviewer: #2 What about # the things up above the teeth up #1 here? # 025: #2 That's # your gums. Interviewer: Okay now the um uh uh if a person had those like this he'd say he has a? {NW} 025: They'd call that a hacking cough. Coughs from smoking cigarettes. Interviewer: Okay and a and a person who can't hear you'd say he's? 025: Deaf. Interviewer: #1 Okay and then uh. # 025: #2 Can't # talk he's dumb. Interviewer: Okay. 025: Deaf and dumb. Interviewer: All right and then a uh a large sore that has a core in it? 025: That's a boil. There used to be plenty of them. That's caused from your blood. But that you don't hear that anymore. Used to they'd and then they used to people'd have it on the backs of neck and you'd just about kill 'em. Sometimes they would kill 'em. They call 'em carbuncles. I don't know #1 what ever # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: caused that. #1 They'd do {D: a little} # Interviewer: #2 Hmm. # 025: something. They'd have to shave your head. I've seen oh I've s- seen two or three people with that. Interviewer: What do you call that stuff in a in a boil? 025: Huh? Interviewer: the stuff that comes out of a #1 boil # 025: #2 I # don't know. I've had 'em. I've had 'em one time call 'em just oh {X} corruption. I don't know #1 what the right # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: name would #1 be for it. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Just old #1 bloody looking # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: stuff'd come out Interviewer: #1 of it. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # If a person is shot by a uh or somebody shoots someone with a with a uh a rifle or something you'd say he suffered a bullet? 025: Bullet wound is what they'd put in the papers nowadays. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And then and then if uh if especially years ago if a if a wound didn't heal right you'd get that crusty stuff around the #1 edge. # 025: #2 Well now # sometimes they'd take blood poisoning #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # Yeah but this is a kind of uh of a flesh that grows around a wound. And they used to have to try to burn it off sometimes but how long they had to burn #1 it off. # 025: #2 Yeah # something like that you know uh. Used to people had to do their own doctoring. #1 They'd use a # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: whole lotta things. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Well. 025: This one time there used to be some used to be {X} An old doctor {NW} clear right across this mountain between here in Gatlinsburg #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And he doctored with herbs you #1 know. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And uh somebody got the big sore you know. People used to get sores and they wouldn't #1 heal up. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: And uh that old man told him he could cure him {D: and} he was asking what do you do? Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 And # he said the first thing I'd do he said I'd heat a iron red hot and he said I'd burn that out. and then he said um I doctor for the burn. He said I'm hell on burns. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. {NW} Uh-huh. # 025: #2 He said I doctor for the burn. # Interviewer: Did did they ever have any stuff they'd call proud flesh? 025: #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # What's that? 025: Well it's just something will get in there and just won't uh won't heal up. Til you get that out. Now that's why they used to use alum or #1 something # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: another on that. Alum alum's one of the best things in the country. I used to use it on horses' #1 shoulders # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: where they'd skin 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And that alum is one of the best healing things I ever #1 used just # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: for whatever you for #1 country # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: people that Interviewer: #1 Sure. # 025: #2 didn't have # a doctor or #1 something. # Interviewer: #2 Well what would you # call that stuff that kind of skin? 025: Huh? Interviewer: That skin we were talking about. 025: well now I don't know that proud flesh would just get in there. I Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 don't know what you'd. # Interviewer: And then a kind of stuff that other kind of stuff that you'd put on a cut? Used to burn and you'd get it in a little bottle. It's kind of brownish in color. that you might put on a on a bad cut to make sure it wasn't in- wouldn't get 025: #1 Well that's # Interviewer: #2 get infected? # 025: iodine. Interviewer: Yeah and then a kind of. #1 {X} # 025: #2 {X} # people went and got to use 'em that #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {D: a lot better up.} Interviewer: #1 yeah # 025: #2 For a bottle with # a little in it. Interviewer: #1 And and how bout that # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: kind of bitter powder that you used to take for a #1 fever? # 025: #2 Oh # that was {X} Interviewer: And then if a person um uh uh uh person uh was alive one day and then the next day he wasn't you'd say he? 025: Died sudden like of a heart attack. Interviewer: Okay but if they didn't know they might say I don't know what? 025: Eh they'd have a something #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # #1 See I don't know {X} # 025: #2 Now a heart attack # if he just fell over dead. #1 No # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: telling what happened to him. He had a heart attack. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: That's a lot of that happens. Interviewer: Yeah they might say I don't know what he died? 025: They'd say they didn't know {D: maybe anybody} say I don't know whether that killed him or not. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: The doctors and course after a man dead it's hard for a doctor to tell what killed him. Interviewer: Sure. 025: Anyway when his heart quit beating he gonna die. Interviewer: Right. 025: I'd say it in #1 fact. # Interviewer: #2 Um. # {NW} All right and then uh after the person dies the body's placed in a? 025: Well now they's used to people when before they had funeral homes they would make their own caskets #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: {D: Have 'em lay} their head sometimes and then later on they got to going to the funeral homes and getting the caskets. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 025: #2 My # grandpas both died in nineteen sixteen. You couldn't get out of here couldn't get a cask- couldn't get uh. There wasn't no uh ambulances {D: if had any} couldn't have got 'em in here. Had to take a wagon to go and get 'em. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: But now then when anybody died most people belongs to one or the other there. We've got two funeral homes. They belong to their burial association you know. They've even cut the ambulance out now then cause they won't let the undertakers come and get anybody and take #1 'em to # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: Knoxville to the hospital or Sevierville the hospital. There's a ambulance that's that went on up 'til the first of this year and it's disagreeable. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And this ambulance uh these funeral homes'd take you to Knoxville for twenty or twenty-five dollars and these funeral homes {D: they sure} bus now they've just only got one for s- for Sevier county. That sometimes they'll have to get the rescue squad or something #1 to go and get 'em. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: They charge you fifty dollars to come in here and get you and take you to #1 Knoxville now. # Interviewer: #2 Is that right? # 025: but the funeral homes when they come and get you when you're buried that goes in with your funeral burial. They come and get you and take you out there and take care of you and bury you and Interviewer: Uh. 025: the ambulance service you don't that's one thing that you still got {D: is} the funeral home. Interviewer: Yeah. And where's the burying done how does the? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Call the place where the burying is? 025: That's a cemetery. Interviewer: #1 Right. Now do you ever # 025: #2 Old # people still {D: called it like me} the graveyard. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Cemetery's the right place #1 for you. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # Now the this um this disease that took the lives of a lot of children oh in the oh forty fifty years ago especially in this #1 throat? # 025: #2 Well # that was some kind of croup. Remember it was croup or something another I guess what you're #1 talking about. # Interviewer: #2 Or did # 025: Huh? Interviewer: did remember did there? 025: It's croup. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 025: #2 Call it the # croup {D: then.} Interviewer: Did they ever didn't they call it diphtheria? 025: The what? Interviewer: Dip- wasn't there any #1 diphtheria? # 025: #2 Yeah. # diphtheria. Well that was that was a different #1 thing. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: diphtheria was awful they'd kill a lot of 'em Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: I forget just how that worked but it worked #1 in your tonsils # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: and in your throat. Interviewer: #1 things. # 025: #2 Yeah. # like that. Interviewer: #1 Now a {X} # 025: #2 You don't # hear of too much about #1 anymore. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Now you said you're troubled with what? 025: Bad well one thing bad circulation. #1 My blood don't # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # #1 You'd say that # 025: #2 circulate too good. # Interviewer: pains in the joints though. #1 You have? # 025: #2 Oh that's # arthritis. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: And it's mean. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 As an old # boy used to work here for me and I used to laugh at people about arthritis. me and this little boy. Somebody was uh talking they had arthritis. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: This boy said I know all them damn ritises and he said that old Arthur's the #1 meanest one. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # How bout something that causes a yellowing of the skin? 025: That's yellow jaundice. Interviewer: And how bout something you get a pain down in your right side? 025: That's appendicitis. Interviewer: All right and if a person can't keep food down he might? 025: Well I don't know what you'd call that. Interviewer: Just uh when the food comes up you mean he just vo- {NS} 025: Well I've had uh I have some stomach troubles too. Sometimes food don't go through you. #1 Sometimes # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: you'd have trouble you have to take something to #1 get # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: that gas and stuff. #1 I guess # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: that's what you're #1 talking about. # Interviewer: #2 No I mean # like vomiting or throwing up. 025: #1 Well # Interviewer: #2 Maybe sick # to the sick to the stomach or. 025: {D: Say say} sick at your stomach or something like Interviewer: #1 I mean it's # 025: #2 that. {X} # {D: Be able to eat.} Interviewer: yeah when you've done that then you might thr- would you use? 025: A lot of times if you'd to take something like tums or something {D: then would} alka seltzer or something. Milk of magnesia. It'll help you. Interviewer: If it doesn't though you might? #1 Right. # 025: #2 And then if # it doesn't you can't get get that air out and that #1 gas would # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: get to be a little better #1 and sometimes # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: people would {D: get to the place} where their bowels won't be no good. I have to take something every night to keep my bowels a going you #1 know a lot of # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {D: it is.} You've done it so long you just have to keep it up. Interviewer: Sure well I mean something where the food comes out of your stomach and out your mouth. You know what do you call #1 that? # 025: #2 Well # they call that {D: vomickings.} Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 Used to # call it puking but that {NW} didn't sound #1 good. {X} # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: Call it {D: vomicking} #1 now. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # {NW} If a if a if a if a boy is seen a lot with a girl um you'd say he's you know young young man young girl going out together. You might say they're doing what there? 025: Courting. Interviewer: Okay and uh you'd say he is her what? He is her? 025: I don't know. I'd call him her boyfriend or something. But now that they're gonna get married he's her finance. They're they're financing. Interviewer: Okay and what do you call the man that stands up at the wedding? 025: That's the minister. Interviewer: Yeah and the #1 man? # 025: #2 And the # best man. Interviewer: #1 And then # 025: #2 You're talking # about the best man. I've seen him {D: wearing some of the other night down on the television.} Interviewer: All right the best man and then the woman who's with the bride is called the? 025: Maid of honor or something another. Interviewer: Okay uh did they ever have a noisy uh do the in the kind of noisy carrying out after a #1 wedding? # 025: #2 Well they'd # call that serenading they'd get bells and ring around the house and aggravate you to death. Interviewer: #1 All right did were did they? # 025: #2 Ring the # cowbells and. Interviewer: Did they say 025: #1 Shoot # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: #1 and # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Yeah. 025: cut up. Interviewer: #1 Did they? # 025: #2 Maybe # carry 'em on {D: a rail or.} Interviewer: Uh-huh. Did they do anything to the women? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Did they ever do anything to 025: #1 No it was # Interviewer: #2 the women? # 025: just fun. Just your neighbors #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: It was just fun some of it {D: wasn't fun.} Enjoyable. Interviewer: Uh-huh. #1 And uh. # 025: #2 {X} # but they've quit that. You never hear of that anymore. But used to that was common. {X} drums and things. They'd torment you to death. People got 'til it got so bad some of the married {D: didn't go. They'd stay a week} before anybody knows where they was at. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Tried to keep it a secret. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now the uh uh um uh after do they when at harvest time did they used to get together and uh have parties uh sort of when they were oh uh shucking #1 cornstalks? # 025: #2 Yeah. # Yeah that's like {X} they used to and pick their beans you know and have bean stringings and things like that. And just get a crowd together and the first thing you knowed it would just get to be a perfect {D: and you asking some} boys and girls would come and lay around together and court instead of working helping you but if you could get married people and people like that #1 to come in # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: and help you that was all right. But they were {D: thinking getting bad hands after all.} Interviewer: I see. 025: Just be a torment. Just like when people was sick they'd come in you know and set up with him and then take people to the hospital then and wouldn't know where to take 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And people'd come in {D: of the night} and help you. Well after a while the younger people would go to coming. {D: And directly they would just get to be a pest.} {D: Now one my grandfathers had had a} great big house here you know and they'd go in the kitchen there and there's some boys work there for him {D: you know and we'd rave} and they'd pop popcorn. They'd go and drink coffee and then this crowd would come. Lot of men older than I am. And they'd go and drink coffee instead of coming in here and letting you go to bed and go to sleep after you'd worked all day with 'em. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And you'd just have to get to just get to be a Interviewer: Yeah. 025: aggravation #1 to you. # Interviewer: #2 If # um uh uh if uh when they get together and they have banjos and fiddles and the people get out on the floor and go around what would they #1 call that? # 025: #2 That was # square dance. I guess is what you're #1 talking about. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: some kind of a dance I don't #1 know if you'd call it # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: square dance. I guess that's what you'd Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 say. # Interviewer: Did they ever use the expression when they was uh talking about dancing say to play? Did they they would pl- they would say to play with somebody meaning to dance with them? 025: Well I don't know uh. To tell you I always {D: much} never did attend too many dances. Interviewer: #1 Okay. Now if you were gonna walk # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Across a field and then you weren't gonna go all the way down to the road you were just gonna go right through like that. You might say you're taking what? 025: Near cut. Interviewer: Okay and if a and if a crop wasn't planted and the and the rows weren't planted perfectly straight what might you say about that field? 025: Uh ell now that used to be a thing that people took pride in. They wanted to get the rows the #1 best # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: {D: that you ever could.} my granddad could lay off the straightest rows I near had ever seen. #1 He'd # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: take sticks you know and he could take a ten acre field take three sticks #1 and he'd # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: measure his row here you know and he'd measure 'em and he'd go and he'd tell them to just straighten and as a boy that {D: my granddad and him pretty well raised} and he turned out to be a good farmer. And he'd do the same thing. He could lay off the straightest rows. And people would always remark about #1 my granddad's # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: rows or this #1 fine # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: fellas rows you #1 know but # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Yeah. 025: {D: If there were many damn} crooked rows they'd always have something to say about 'em. I don't know Interviewer: #1 Did they ever use the expression # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: antigodlin? 025: I never did hear #1 that. # Interviewer: #2 Or # cattywampus. 025: #1 Cattywampus # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: now that would #1 be {C: laughing} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: sorta cross #1 ways or something # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: another in and out. Interviewer: All right and if you wanted to just to say to spend the night in Knoxville you might stay at the what? 025: Well that'd be a Morton house. Interviewer: Or a ho- 025: hotel or something. #1 That's a # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: motel. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 Motels. # These old boarding houses about played out. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: Used to I'd peddle out of Knoxville and they'd have a you'd eat at them boarding houses up {D: over the square there and} {D: I have stayed a few nights at a time} summertime we'd have to sleep out there to keep somebody from stealing our stuff. Interviewer: If you were gonna take a train you'd go down to the what? 025: Depot. Interviewer: Okay and then if um uh and if you were gonna check a book out you'd go into town to the? 025: Library. Interviewer: All right and if a person works for the for the uh you'd say he works for the federal? 025: Government. Interviewer: And a person in the police is supposed to maintain? 025: Well Interviewer: #1 Law and? # 025: #2 it'd be # sort of law and order. Interviewer: Yeah and then the war we talked about this before this the war in eighteen sixty-five between the north and the south. What was that called? 025: That was called the Civil War. I don't know if there was anything civil to it or Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 025: #2 not. I don't know why they called it civil war. # Interviewer: Now you mentioned a couple southern states. I think you said you haven't traveled much but you know you went after you go through North Carolina then you go through? 025: South Carolina. Interviewer: #1 Yeah and you know where the? Okay. Okay. # 025: #2 and then into Georgia. Then into # Florida. Interviewer: Okay could you name a few other southern states? Out west and you know #1 down past. # 025: #2 Well now # southern states. I uh that's all I've ever been in. Interviewer: #1 How about Al- # 025: #2 In southern # states. Alabama and Louisiana and. Interviewer: Yeah. 025: All that down there. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: #1 I don't know how {X} # Interviewer: #2 How about the big # the big state the lone star state over? 025: Well the lone star state that's Texas ain't it? Interviewer: Sure. #1 And then. # 025: #2 And Tennessee # goes into the volunteer state. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 Now that was # cause eh so many volunteers went to the Civil War I reckon for it to get said. Interviewer: Do you know the name of a couple of cities over in west Tennessee big cities? 025: Yeah Memphis. Interviewer: {X} 025: That's a Democrat's city down #1 there and there's # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: fella with the name old Crump. He used to run #1 {D: match } you see. He's a Democrat. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. Uh-huh. # #1 How about where the # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: state capital is? 025: That's Nashville. Interviewer: All right and we talked about churches you said you were a Methodist what's uh another big church? Church that mr Denton belongs to for example? 025: Well I don't know what mr Denton belongs to but I guess he belongs to Baptist. {D: See the} Baptist and the Methodist is the two leading churches {D: with these holiness people.} Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. {X} # 025: #2 And the church of # Christ and the church of God. They're all different but they're taking a big lead. {D: And these seven day evangelists are} building a big church. #1 But # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: the main and the old churches there was only three. There was uh the one class they called the primitive Baptists. And they believed in foot washing you know #1 and things # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: like that. And then when I was a boy there wasn't but the three churches in the community and that was the Baptists and the Methodists. Now they end in the sixth district They's six Baptist churches and one Methodist. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. #1 What do you # 025: #2 In the sixth district. # Interviewer: what do you call that uh they the uh the opponent God's enemy? 025: Huh? Interviewer: The the the man who runs hell what's his name? 025: Well that's called the devil #1 as far as # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: ever I've #1 knowed. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Ever heard any other names for him? 025: Satan or something like #1 that. # Interviewer: #2 Okay and # there might have been an old house in the neighborhood that kids were afraid to go near. What was that 025: Well the hainted #1 house. Haunted. # Interviewer: #2 What's supposed to # 025: Haunted. Interviewer: what's supposed to be in there? 025: Eh spirits things you hear rackets and Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 somebody # dragging something over the floor or something. Down at the road here there used to be a house and #1 well people got # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: afraid to live in it. Interviewer: #1 Is that right? # 025: #2 Didn't even # some of 'em'd run off and leave and. Interviewer: Yeah. What's the usual expre- eh what do you say to people on December twenty-fifth? 025: Well eh Christmas gift is about the first thing they'd say to you in the morning when you'd #1 get up # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: or when you'd see 'em and they're supposed to give you something. Interviewer: Or merry? 025: merry Christmas. Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 025: #2 Happy # new year. Interviewer: All right and then if you belong to a club you might have to pay your? 025: Dues. Interviewer: And if uh uh there's just about five more minutes here. 025: {D: I just have to speed up I get stiff.} Interviewer: Okay sure. Say on on the first of the month you might say the bill is? 025: Due. Interviewer: All right and if you say I was gonna buy that but it just what too much it just? 025: {D: It's too sh-} Interviewer: Co- 025: Cost too much. #1 too high something along that lines. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. And and if someone # uh if you didn't have enough money you might have to go to the bank and? 025: Borrow the money. Interviewer: All right and in the nineteen thirties money was awfully? 025: Oh it was scarce. You couldn't get it. Interviewer: #1 Okay and first {X} # 025: #2 {X} # you a lot to keep 'em letting you #1 have it. # Interviewer: #2 Keep # that down on the floor and turn it over like this you'd say you did #1 a? # 025: #2 Somersault. # Interviewer: And if a and if a boy got out on the end of a of a board and into the water he? 025: Dived. He dived off of that end of the #1 water and went in # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: all over you Interviewer: #1 And if um # 025: #2 {X} # {D: I guess you'd done that summer.} Interviewer: Yes and to do this on the floor is to? #1 With your foot? # 025: #2 Patting # their foot. Interviewer: Stomp. You stamp? 025: You know something like this people used to you know they'd {C: tapping foot} Interviewer: Tap yeah. 025: play some instrument and they'd {C: tapping foot} #1 tap their # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: they'd call that tapping their foot. {C: tapping foot} #1 now I don't know what you'd call that. # Interviewer: #2 {X} It's gotta be # really hard to stomp it just down hard. {NW} 025: #1 Well I don't know what # Interviewer: #2 That down hard. # 025: you'd call that. #1 Must be just # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: be stomping the floor. Interviewer: Okay and if a person tells a lot of jokes you said he really has a good sense of? 025: Humor. Interviewer: All right and if a child's been bad and he's gonna you're gonna spank him he might say to you please please give me another? 025: Chance. Interviewer: And but but when you're spanking it were there different degrees of spanking #1 children? # 025: #2 Yeah # some people'd be unmerciful. They you know they's a lot of people they used that they ain't in this country but I read it in the papers the other day about a man that beat his kid up you know. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Some people'd take their hand that was the old fashioned way just take their hand and turn 'em across the knee and burn 'em up. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Then later on people got to using their belts I noticed my boy here not long ago he told his little boy if he didn't quit it he gonna he'd be getting nothing but his belt whupped with their belts you #1 know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Scare 'em. Interviewer: What do you call a little something you give to you might make for a child to play with? 025: Oh a little girl {X} doll #1 you know and a boy he'd # Interviewer: #2 You ever call it a play pretty? # 025: want something else and. Interviewer: You ever call that a play pretty? 025: Yeah there's a whole basket full of 'em. Oh these little {D: grand ones they ain't as} bad as they used to be as quick as they got here they'd go get that little basket. Bring 'em out here and pour everything #1 out on the # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: floor there's a little of this and a little of that. Interviewer: They call it a play pretty? 025: Yeah play pretty or something. #1 The other day there's somebody # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: come here with a little kid and my wife to get it quiet while there's somebody visiting us and they had a little girl. She went and got that and they'd lay down there and they'll sat for hours you know and sat #1 and play on # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: that and sort that stuff out. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And my little granddaughter. She used to come and the first thing she'd wanted to do she wanted to pull all these papers out of these #1 things and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: throw 'em on the floor. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And the boy he wants to play ball and Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 something # like that you know or run and jump and #1 fall against # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: the wall and they're different children just different. Interviewer: If it hasn't rained for a couple of weeks you'd say we're having a? 025: Drought. Interviewer: #1 And if # 025: #2 Drought. # Interviewer: what if it's just for for a just not quite so long you'd say it's a? 025: It didn't rain 'til it shower or #1 something like that # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: like we had the other day when you was here that'd be a shower. Interviewer: #1 Okay I want it to be a little harder than that. # 025: #2 {X} # Well then call it I don't know. #1 call it # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: everything I don't know just what the proper #1 thing would be. # Interviewer: #2 Well kind of just # the words you'd likely use. 025: {D: The rain what the rain two then it's two or three days?} Interviewer: yeah well I mean all just rain would you ever have any {D: thawed} you know like a downpour or a #1 {D: sunstorm?} # 025: #2 Oh yeah they'll # Come in there awful hard rain we had them thunderstorms just last week. and there's popping crack here {D: and just she'd} #1 get you # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: bright. You don't know where it's gonna hit. Interviewer: #1 Did you can't see. # 025: #2 It hit that. # walnut #1 tree there one # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. Yeah. # 025: time and Interviewer: Yeah. 025: scared us all to death. It knocked me and the fellas living out there we was planting beans out #1 there in the garden. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: It knocked the hose out of our hands. Interviewer: Yeah if you can't see across the street you'd say you'd say you it's uh there's uh in the morning you'd say it's really what out there? 025: Hell it'd be foggy here. I don't know what it'd be in town. I guess it'd be foggy. Interviewer: #1 Okay and you call this? # 025: #2 Smoky or # something. I #1 guess in Knoxville in a big town it'd # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. Yeah. # 025: be smoky or #1 Call that fog. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: Well the fog in the morning #1 here. You get up lots of # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: mornings here through this time of year you'll get up here one morning you can't see your cattle. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 {X} # Wait 'til that fog clears maybe you can't see the #1 road out there. You # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: And people that drives some of 'em's got {D: up on their car that they can't get the fog off and some of the main} I've had to stop and take and wipe the fog off you #1 know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Going down this cold creek. Fog's worse along the little lands like #1 the waters. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # You call that fog up there on the mountains #1 that makes {X} # 025: #2 Well now it'll come # down. It was on that mountain yesterday. Whenever fog comes down on that mountain and settles there #1 it's # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: it's gonna be cooler. And in the wintert- and in the wintertime that fog'll come down and freeze. #1 And that mountain # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: will be white as snow up #1 there that freezes on the # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. I see. # 025: timber #1 in cold # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: weather. #1 Then's # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: when we'd always kill hogs. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: If it was hog killing time #1 and we was # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: ready to kill 'em at mountain was froze over. My granddad was an old timer. He said whenever that fog was froze he said you could figure on one or two cool nights and you could. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Now but that stuff up in the mountains that you see all the time in the Smokies that's fog. You'd call that fog up there at the top of the mountains? 025: Now we call it fog. Interviewer: #1 Okay and how about uh. # 025: #2 I don't know what # smog #1 is now. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: We don't know #1 nothing about smog. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. Yeah. # 025: {X} #1 you've taken # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: #1 big # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: town you wanna talk about smog #1 especially in # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: California. Interviewer: #1 Uh if the wind hasn't been # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: blowing and then it suddenly begins you'd say the wind is? 025: A raising. Interviewer: Okay and if it start if it's been blowing pretty hard and it begins to stop you'd say it's? 025: It's a ceasing. Interviewer: All right if you get up one morning and you go outside say hey I'll put on a sweater because it's a little? 025: Chilly. Interviewer: Do you ever use airish? 025: Huh? Interviewer: Would you ever say airish? 025: Well now some people would say that but most of 'em will say uh it's sort of chilly this morning ain't it? Interviewer: if you're talking about the height of the ceiling let's say ni- it's nine nine nine nine f- you'd say that the ceiling is? 025: Well now that'd be about nine feet. Interviewer: Okay. All right. 025: #1 In other # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: places it ain't that high. Back #1 in yonder # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: {D: my mother said} I I don't know why they built these old houses high #1 just like # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: church houses. #1 All these # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: old church houses just there's no {D: k- there's no ups.} #1 {D: Two storied houses.} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {X} Interviewer: Hmm. 025: They'd make church houses would Interviewer: Hmm. 025: they would be ten twelve #1 feet. Have # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: you've ever been in any old church house? Interviewer: yeah I 025: That'll be twelve ten or twelve #1 feet. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: I asked somebody one time #1 what # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: they'd done that for oh they said used to people'd shout. Well I said {D: they'll never hit the} top of that wall when #1 {D: you get down 'em.} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Uh-huh. 025: {D: Or up.} Interviewer: #1 The uh. # 025: #2 Now they built the # barns that way. #1 Now you # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: take my barns. They made the barn loft {D: too too} #1 way # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: too high. Two feet too high well now they uh a house this here ceiling here in new houses it ain't over seven feet. You don't find many people over six feet tall. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And uh course the more house now that's where our house gets awful cold in the wintertime. With all this space you've got it all to heat. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 025: And if you can cut off two feet there you've got you take two square feet plum around this {D: exit} you've got a lot of #1 lot of # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: stuff to heat. Interviewer: #1 Right. # 025: #2 That # you ain't giving you noth- it ain't worth nothing #1 to you. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: But now why they'd make this ceiling this long as high in a two story house I'll never know. Interviewer: Uh-huh. #1 Yeah well. # 025: #2 And it's just # Old people's way of doing #1 things. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: I might have to p- 025: Middle Tennessee and east #1 Tennessee you # Interviewer: #2 yeah # 025: know. Yeah well it's yeah I know where it is that's just beyond beyond uh uh over there around Fentress county and Interviewer: #1 just. # 025: #2 Well now would # you happen to #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Cumberland. # 025: what county Mount Pleasant's in? Interviewer: Now Mount Pleasant. I haven't come across Mount #1 Pleasant. # 025: #2 Well there's a # man come here and he wanted to see. He bought some land over #1 here. He's a # Interviewer: #2 All right. # 025: {D: man that.} Interviewer: Oh in Mount Pleasant Michigan. 025: #1 No this was in Tennessee. # Interviewer: #2 This oh. # {X} And over Mount #1 Pleasant Michigan. # 025: #2 {X} # {X} It's in middle Tennessee. He's supposed to come back the first of July. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And wanted to put in the trailer down here. #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: {D: If I'd have let him} #1 I told him # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: he could set it down there. He just bought some land {D: just down in the} {X} bought some land right across that mountain. #1 And he never come # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: back. I don't know what happened to him. Interviewer: What do you call that uh in we talked about the uh freezing when they when the i- when the when the like a pond freezes over. Uh what do you call the uh that when the ice is just very thin? #1 Uh. # 025: #2 Well you'd # just call it thin ice. You'd have to stay off of it. {C: background noise} but if it #1 gets # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: thick enough people'd get in there and skate. {NW} Interviewer: #1 Do you ever call that mush # 025: #2 {X} # Interviewer: mush ice or? 025: Yeah mush ice is ice that's #1 not # Interviewer: #2 Right. # 025: froze #1 solid. # Interviewer: #2 Right and when it gets # good and hard you say the lake is all? #1 Fr- # 025: #2 Froze # over. Interviewer: All right now these are just things for pronunciation this has no this is not a test. Uh but would you just count for me up to fourteen? 025: One two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen. #1 Now that get you? # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # Okay and then the number after nineteen? 025: Would be twenty. Interviewer: And after twenty-six? 025: Twenty-seven. Interviewer: And after twenty-nine? 025: Thirty. Interviewer: After thirty-nine? 025: Forty. Interviewer: After sixty-nine? 025: Fifty. Interviewer: Yeah after and then sixty-nine se- 025: Seventy. Interviewer: And then the and then after nine hundred and ninety-nine thousand nine hundred ninety-nine is a mil- would be a mil- 025: A what? Interviewer: A million. Not a not a hundred or a thousand but a? 025: Million you #1 mean? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # Yeah. 025: Oh well that's #1 getting # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: {D: up and} getting too many #1 too many high. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # All right now would you name the months of the year? 025: January February March April May June July August September October November December. Interviewer: All right and the days of the week? 025: I don't know which'd be first. Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday and Saturday. Interviewer: All right and and do you ever use the term sabbath? 025: Yeah. Interviewer: For what does that uh? 025: Well sabbath's Sunday. Sabbath day Sunday. That's #1 what the Bible mentions you know. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. Yeah. What what # time of day would you call this? 025: Well at twelve oh clock it'd be noon. Interviewer: All right what would it be after that? 025: Evening. Interviewer: All right and what uh how would you greet a person say about ten A-M? like when I got here you might say good? 025: Well I don't know now just what you mean there you just {D: as I always} understood you know you talk about your meals. Used to we'd call it morning is breakfast. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Twelve oh clock it is dinner. Six oh clock is supper. Now then it's something else. It's lunch. Interviewer: All right. 025: Dinner's in the night. {NW} Interviewer: But I mean how would you say 025: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 say you know how you # might see a friend oh quite early in the day and you'd say good? 025: {D: Well now all that out here they'll pass on out in the front} #1 you'd say you would # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: be here this morning at eight thirty and be here at eighty thirty. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 Or nine # thirty or ten thirty or whatnot. Interviewer: #1 Now what do you? # 025: #2 Well uh # on up before twelve oh clock it's A-M #1 and it's # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: after that it'd be P-M and after six again I reckon it'd be P-M I don't know #1 in the night. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # Sure and then what uh you'd say the um the time when the sun first appeared is you call that? 025: Sunup. Interviewer: And when it disappears? 025: Sundown. Interviewer: All right and say uh um I saw the sun? 025: Rising. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And yesterday it uh it I saw it yeah what what you might say at at six A-M the sun? 025: Is up? Interviewer: Or ro- yeah. 025: #1 Up. You'd # Interviewer: #2 Or the sun r- # 025: just say sunup you know. Interviewer: Okay and if um if Saturday is today Friday was? 025: Yesterday. Interviewer: And Sunday'll be? 025: Tomorrow. Interviewer: All right and if I if someone wasn't coming tomorrow that's tomorrow would be next Sunday. How about if someone was coming the following #1 Sunday? # 025: #2 That'd # be Sunday week. Interviewer: Okay and if you wanted to know the time you might ask somebody? 025: Well if somebody had had a watch or something. Interviewer: All right and what what might you say to them? 025: Huh? Interviewer: What might you say to them? 025: Say have you got the time? Interviewer: Okay and what time was it uh oh about five minutes ago? 025: {NW} Be ten thirty. Interviewer: All right and and in about ten minutes what time will it be? 025: It'll be ten 'til ten. Ten to eleven. Interviewer: Or how about when the just in about ten minutes nine minutes when it's? 025: It'd be a quarter. Some people call it quarter to eleven. #1 Quarter after # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 025: eleven. Interviewer: All right and if uh if uh if nineteen seventy-two was last year nineteen seventy-three is? 025: {NW} This year #1 I reckon. # Interviewer: #2 All right. # And if you saw somebody you you uh you you something happened exactly on this day in nineteen seventy-two. You'd say that happened just a? 025: A year ago today. Interviewer: Okay and then if in those those big uh white things up in the sky are? 025: Clouds. Interviewer: All right and on a day how would you describe the day today? 025: Well it'd be clear to partly cloudy. Interviewer: Okay. #1 But it might if it if it? # 025: #2 If it ain't a # cloud to be seen nowhere it's a clear day. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 But now # these weather people. I listen to the weather every night every day. And a day that where it's a little cloudy it's partly cloudy. Clear to partly #1 cloudy they would say. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # All right. 025: And some days that sun never shines #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: Been one or two of them {D: last} round lately. Interviewer: How bout a day where it's very um uh where it's very cloudy and it's how would you describe a #1 day like that? # 025: #2 Well that # {D: got us a} few days like this week {D: at the first of the week.} I'd say it's an awful gloomy day. Interviewer: Okay and if if um the weather's been pretty nice but then rain or snow might be expected? It's been nice then you say the weather's? 025: #1 I never understood # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 025: that exactly what. Interviewer: Well if the weather say it's say the weather's been been very it's it's been all right but now rain or snow might #1 be expected? # 025: #2 Well # say we've had pleasant weather or #1 something another # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # 025: but we're in for it now or Interviewer: #1 I see. Would you ever use # 025: #2 something like that. # Interviewer: something like the weather is changing or #1 breaking? # 025: #2 Yeah # changing you know you get out here and it'll be a raining and like the other day now after you left here you know. #1 It was cloudy a little # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: rainy well after a while it began to clouds begin to break up. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 025: #2 It lightened up # and the sun shined #1 and whenever # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: them clouds goes to breaking up #1 well the # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: sun's gonna come through directly if they don't Interviewer: Yeah. #1 Say. # 025: #2 But the best # {D: that I uh the} best way to to judge the weather is when she goes to when it goes to clearing up in the north. Interviewer: Is that right? 025: It'll come clear up quicker. This a way it'll clear up and maybe a hour it'd be a raining. #1 Now when it # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: goes to clearing in the north it'll stay {X} coming from the north Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: you can figure on some better weather. Interviewer: If you're talking about a rain. We were talking before about a rain. The rain just keeps coming down a little bit at a time not very much at all but just keeps coming and doesn't doesn't let up. You might call that a? 025: Oh I'd call that a sprinkle or shower #1 or something # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 025: another. If it ain't much #1 rain they'll say it # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: coming round smart little sprinkle or a little shower. Then through dog days when it comes like it's been a coming for the last day or two they'll say that's dog days weather. #1 It'll # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: clear up and rain then after a while it'll cloud up and rain again #1 you know. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Now you call would you call that a uh uh ever call that a drizzle or a or a 025: #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 or a mist? # 025: Drizzle. When it ain't a raining too hard you know just enough that you can't get out in it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: And not hard enough to Interviewer: Uh. 025: {D: to mud you'd} call that a drizzle. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 025: #2 Soggy # {D: you know. If it gone and} drizzled you know. Maybe drizzle thataway all day. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 025: Just not {NW} enough to raise the waters or #1 anything # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: but it just enough to dampen the ground #1 you you know. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # Um just a couple of other things what do you call that uh the thing that you put a baby in? When you take it out for a walk. 025: Well I don't know unless you're talking about a baby buggy or #1 something like that. # Interviewer: #2 Sure. # 025: #1 Used to have them # Interviewer: #2 And then and. # 025: little thing here you push 'em and call 'em baby buggies #1 or something. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # That's that's what I meant. And then the thing that a minister preaches on on Sunday you'd call that a? He preaches the gospel but you might say he preached a good? This Sunday the minister preached a good? 025: Sermon. Interviewer: All right. 025: A good sermon. Some would call it a good message but Interviewer: Okay. 025: most people in this country'd call that a sermon. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And if you uh um if you had to when you're going into the mount you come you had a big heavy load and you're let's say that you had a big big bag of meal or something and you were gonna you had to take it from one place or another you'd say that thing was really heavy I? On my back for two miles I? Would you say I packed it or I toted it or I lugged it? 025: Eh I guess they'd go packed it that towed it you hear a lot of that. #1 Towed it # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: but that's {NS} not uh #1 you know # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 025: I'd just old saying. Interviewer: #1 Yeah more like uh. # 025: #2 {X} # mean that you packed it. Interviewer: Packed it would be more likely here #1 huh? Okay. # 025: #2 Carried it or something another. # Interviewer: Well I think that's about it. I think you're finally gonna give 'em to me. 025: #1 Well now. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 025: Turn that off and play a little of little of it #1 back at me and let me see what it sounds like. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} I'd be glad to. # 025: {NW}