Interviewer: Some I think I left off talking about uh well I was describing a dish uh something that might be cooked for dessert, you know? 185: #1 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: #2 Usually # in uh some sort of rectangular pan you could make it with slices of fruit, say apples or peaches usually has some kind of #1 crust on it # 185: #2 A a pie. # Interviewer: Call that a pie? 185: Mm-hmm. {NS} Interviewer: Sometimes uh can you have a pie cooked you know uh usually I I don't associate pies being cooked in a rectangular sort of container but rather a round dish 185: Yeah uh you mean you're talk you're not talking about a deep-dish pie. Interviewer: A deep-dish pie. 185: Uh-huh some people call it a cobbler #1 too. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # #1 Yeah, I see. So deep-dish pie and cobbler? # 185: #2 And cobbler # #1 are the same things. # Interviewer: #2 Same thing? # 185: Mm-hmm and then um a pie you can also have it cooked in a rounded pie plate. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And it can either have a crust over it or not. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {X} 185: Yeah. Yeah. Deep-dish you have to put um more you you put water in it so that you get a lot of juice in it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. Well what about is there any particular term you've heard say for example somebody might say so-and-so has a pretty good appetite. He sure puts away his 185: His food. Interviewer: #1 His food? # 185: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: You ever heard anything that might be a little uh on the joking or you know jocular side 185: #1 {D: A fiddler?} # Interviewer: #2 {D: violence} # {X} 185: Um yeah but you don't hear that too often anymore. Um the only times I've heard it like you said have been in in in a joking manner. Interviewer: Mm. Do you would anybody that you know nowadays use that naturally? 185: No. Not naturally. Interviewer: Maybe it's an old-fashioned term? 185: I would think so, yeah. Interviewer: Well say this stuff you know if you're having barbecue you might pour on some more barbecue 185: Some barbecue sauce. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. A sauce and a gravy is there a difference there or are they the same? to you 185: Between sauce and gravy. Um Yeah there's a difference. Gravy is with meat. It's usually made out of the um out of the drippings of the meat when you've cooked. Like a roast. You have roast beef and gravy and you take um the drippings in the pan and you make gravy from that. Or from frying chicken you can make gravy with the crumb the crumbs that are left in the pan. Sauce you, I usually think of as being something like a cheese sauce or a cream sauce. Interviewer: I see. Possibly gravy made with flour in it? 185: Yeah. Yeah. Interviewer: I see. Say food that you eat between meals. You'd say you're having a 185: A snack. Interviewer: You ever heard people call that anything else? 185: #1 Don't think so. # Interviewer: #2 Having a snack or uh # Uh would that be the same as a bite to eat? You ever heard it used that way? Between meals? 185: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Usually you'd say I'm gonna get a bite to eat. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. Uh and that verb 'to eat', the past you say yesterday I 185: I ate. Interviewer: And I have 185: I've eaten. Interviewer: You mentioned last time you talk about talked about something that breaks. How about the past of that? #1 It- Mm-hmm. # 185: #2 It broke. # And it has broken. Interviewer: And when you say if you pour yourself a glass of water, you say you 185: You drink it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm and uh 185: Drank it and have drunk. Interviewer: Say if some company has come over uh for a meal and they're just standing around the table and you didn't want them to you know stay that way, you'd say well just go ahead 185: And sit down. Interviewer: And that verb sit 185: You sat and have sat. Interviewer: And uh if the people are around the table and you don't want them to wait until something's passed to them, you say go ahead 185: Help yourself. Interviewer: And that verb help 185: Helped and help. Interviewer: Say if some- somebody passes you a dish at a meal. You are not particularly crazy about it, you just tell them what? 185: No, thank you. Or I don't believe I'll have any of that. Interviewer: Or I don't care for that? 185: Or I don't care for that. Interviewer: Or say uh what, talking about food, what would you call food that been uh cooked and served a second time 185: Leftovers. Interviewer: Call that leftover. 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: And you would, would you say they've been 185: They've been um heated up. Interviewer: Heated up? 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Have you ever heard that uh people say it's been warmed over? 185: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Same thing. 185: Right. Right. Warmed over and heated up are basically the same thing. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And when you begin to eat you put food in your mouth and you start to 185: Start to chew. Interviewer: Have you ever heard any any dish made by taking some corn meal and boiling it in water? Maybe add a little salt to steam it that way? 185: No. It doesn't sound real good. Interviewer: No it do- {NW} {C: starting to say 'doesn't' then laughs} It has very little appeal {X} What about mush? #1 You ever heard of that? # 185: #2 Mush? No. # Interviewer: Not familiar with that. 185: No. Interviewer: Yeah. Uh {X} the first time we talked, you mentioned a wash pot. #1 I don't know if you were familiar with it or not but way back when # 185: #2 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: out in the country people would take a big wash pot and they'd boil this stuff in it {D: drivet food} cook it that way, it's really whole kernels of corn you boil them you know and they kind of puff up {X} 185: Hominy. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Have you ever heard of that? 185: #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 any of that? # 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: You ever seen it? Seen 185: I've never seen it being being made. I've heard my um even my father or some of his family's made it before but that was years ago. Interviewer: Mm. 185: Usually the hominy you get now you get it, it's canned. Interviewer: Hmm. 185: In the grocery #1 store. # Interviewer: #2 Right. # Well say talking about starch you could {D: with another one} if you might have oh it grows you know in uh flooded fields? Especially in Louisiana. 185: Rice. Interviewer: Mm. 185: #1 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: #2 {D: everything that growing?} # 185: No. No um they don't grow any rice at home. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Um it's not low enough and swampy enough. Interviewer: I was really ignorant when I was traveling around this summer. I got into Arkansas and I'm traveling on like my God they must've had terrible rain around here. All your fields are flooded. Rice field. I had never seen rice before. I didn't know what it was. Uh this stuff that I don't know that you have it around Ocilla anymore but in Alabama some places you still hear about people going up the hills and making their own uh 185: Their own moonshine. Yeah. Um they don't grow they don't make too much of it at home anymore. The price of sugar got too high a couple of years ago. But um there used to be some real good moonshiners at home. Real good coppersmiths too. All copper um vase coils, the worm, and everything Interviewer: {X} 185: R- Yeah um there's one man who told my who told Daddy that um if you ever want any good moonshine, just let me know. I know someone's got an all copper still. I can get it Interviewer: #1 for you. # 185: #2 Mm-hmm. # And one time when we went out to my grandparents and um somebody out in that a- area had a still and was running a batch because you could smell it everywhere it sm- it smelled it smelled just like liquor. Interviewer: {NW} 185: But you could smell it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. The worm you mentioned. What is that? 185: The worm is the coil. Um but it's twisted it's it's the um the condensing coil, I guess. Interviewer: Mm. 185: Um I've always heard it referred to as the worm. Interviewer: I see. You ever taste any of that stuff? 185: No. Interviewer: You ever heard that people around there are taught anything about moonshine or? 185: White lightning. Interviewer: White lightning. 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Can you remember anything besides that? Moonshine #1 and white lightning, anything besides that? # 185: #2 White light- # That's about it. Interviewer: I have heard some colorful expressions for that. 185: Um Daddy's had some and he's he said that that it should have colorful expression. Interviewer: {NW} 185: it um it's I get it's basically pure alcohol, I don't know. He said it really packed a wallop. Interviewer: {X} Well have you anything like that maybe but maybe not as powerful that uh is not necessarily made in stills I guess 185: That's tub gin? Interviewer: That's tub gin. 185: My grandfather and uncle makes made a batch of bathtub gin one time back during Prohibition. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And um no my mother says some- oh well occasionally if you ask her about it will say something about it but not much. Um it didn't turn out too good. Um some people at home I think once made beer. But you I don't hear anything about that in there. And there's some people at home who now make wine Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: since home wine-making has become sort of sort of a popular fad. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. Any of that you've mentioned, have you ever heard it called homebrew? 185: Yeah. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 185: #2 Um # just sort of referred to it as um as home brewing. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Um I think my my my mother referred to um my grandfather ran off the batch of bathtub gin as doing some home brewing. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And um I had an uncle who made wine before he died and um he would be cheered about about home brewing Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: referring to his wine-making. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. Where's that {X} {D: Right off} the back again and sell it to have 185: I don't know. Um I don't know if it's not at the house. I think it tasted really awful. Interviewer: {NW} 185: They wound up throwing most of the batch out. Interviewer: {NS} I cut my hands making one one time turned out to be vinegar {X} Hey uh this is an expression. If you uh if there's something in the kitchen cooking, you might think Mm that sure does 185: Smell good. Interviewer: And this uh stuff that that uh Don't know if you fancy this or not but that people like to if they have his pancakes up, pouring it on their pancake? 185: The syrup. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: #1 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 185: I don't think so. Interviewer: Yeah. Is there something like like that except maybe a little different? You distinguish between syrup and uh 185: #1 And molasses? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # 185: Um well we have cane syrup at home and some people I've never really understood what the difference between that and molasses is. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And wha- oh we got some molasses last year at the grocery store my roommate and I did here at school. And I used it a couple of times and finally tasted it and it tasted just like cane syrup from home. {NS} Interviewer: Yeah somehow I get the idea that molasses might've been thicker or darker and prettier, something like that. I don't know. You ever heard any terms other than for those things other than syrup and molasses? 185: I can't I don't think so. Interviewer: You have heard of them, the short sweetener and the long sweetener 185: I read about it. But um I I've never heard people refer to it as short sweetener or long sweetener. Interviewer: Say uh this expression that could really say if I have a a belt that's made out of cow hide I might say something like well now this isn't imitation cow hide, this is 185: Real leather or genuine leather. Interviewer: Or again getting back to what you might uh say put on biscuits when you're eating breakfast you don't pour syrup on it. Uh you might uh spread some 185: Some butter on and um Interviewer: It's stuff it made made out of different fruits 185: #1 Oh # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 185: Some jelly or some preserves. Interviewer: What's a different thing {X} 185: Okay jelly is made from the juice of the fruit. You take your fruit and you cook it with water and you get your jelly when you get your juice. Then you make your jelly from that and you have to add sugar and you {X} it doesn't have enough natural peptin in it. Peptin is what makes it set up And then you cook that and pour it into your hot jars and then seal it and preserves are made with the actual fruit itself. Um say Okay we make pr- pear preserves at home and you take your pears and peel them and cut them up and put a lot of sugar on them and then you just let them cook slowly for about twelve to fourteen hours. Interviewer: {NS} I see. Uh this expression, say if uh you have something that I want immediately I might say you 185: Give it to me. Interviewer: And uh this expression say if I were pointing out a group of boys who'd done something like broken somebody's window I might say something like well now it wasn't these boys right here it was 185: It was them. Interviewer: Or another demonstrative that you might use. Not these boys but 185: They. Interviewer: Or these or like these right here but 185: Those. Interviewer: Over there yeah. Or if I'm uh uh trying to direct somebody somewhere I might say uh here doesn't live here it's 185: There. Interviewer: Mm-hmm or it's right 185: Over there. Interviewer: Or if I'm directing somebody again in how to how to do something I might tell them well now don't do it that way, do it 185: This way. Interviewer: Uh Ooh to you what would be the the opposite of rich? That's 185: Poor. Interviewer: And uh say this expression you might say something the fact that uh well if if a man has a lot of money, he doesn't have much to worry about but uh life's hard on a man 185: That's poor. Interviewer: And uh for this expression you might say somebody's asking you well uh {D: let's take a look at that orchard, that tree or something like that} {D: I ask going now} is that yours? {D: I nod and I think uh} of the man across the street. He's the man 185: Who owns it? Interviewer: And then this expression I might say something like uh well when I was a boy uh my father was poor, but next door was a boy 185: Who was rich. Interviewer: What kind of uh do you have any kinds of of fruit that grow naturally in Ocilla? 185: #1 Um # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 185: Yeah. I guess they're natural. I don't know. Yeah they're plum trees. We have plums and we have pecan trees and um which are a nut and not really a fruit um there are black walnut trees um pear trees but I'm not sure if they're native or if they've been brought in. Um grapes um scuppernongs which are sort of like muscadine grapes um people have peach trees but I'm I don't know if they're native or if they've been brought in. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And um pomegranates um figs and blackberries which I'm pretty sure are native. They're pretty much everywhere. And um blueberries grow there, which were developed over in Tifton at the experiment station. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And um There are huckleberries which are native. They grow down on the Alapaha River. Um persimmons #1 That's about all I can think. Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 That about get you? # 185: #1 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: #2 No uh raspberries? # 185: No, no raspberries. Interviewer: Mm I see. What about this uh you know the type of tree that Washington was supposed to have cut down 185: The cherry tree. Interviewer: Did uh that that heart inside part of a cherry, what do you call that? 185: That's the pit. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh you mentioned uh peaches. What do you call the heart inside part of the peach? 185: Um peach pit or sometimes the stone. Interviewer: Did you ever call it the seed? 185: No, we've always called it the pit or the stone. Interviewer: I see. Do you have this type of peach there in Ocilla you know the meat is kind of tight against the stone? 185: Yeah. Cling stones. Interviewer: Cling stone. 185: Uh-huh. Interviewer: And what about you know that other type 185: The Albertas? They're free stones. Interviewer: Free stones. I see. Well you know the inside part of an apple that's left when you've eaten around it, you call that 185: That's the core. Interviewer: {X} Have you ever heard of uh taking or cutting up sli- well sliced up fruit and letting it dry? 185: #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 and # using it you know in cooking 185: Yeah um they don't do it much now because people d- can freeze things but um my grandmothers talked about drying things, about drying fruit um especially drying fruit up in the mountains. They do they they dry apples a lot up there. I've seen my relatives up there drying apples um and what they used to dry at home a lot were beans and peas to use during the winter. Interviewer: I see. You ever heard that called anything in particular any name for the the dried fruit? or you just call it dried fruit? 185: Just just dried fruit. Interviewer: Yeah. You ever heard of the term {X} 185: No. Interviewer: {D: for breakfast and then?} 185: No. Interviewer: Uh you mentioned uh something about nuts a minute ago pecans and walnuts any particular name for the outside covering of a walnut? You'd call that, you have to crack the 185: The hull. Interviewer: The hull. 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Is that is that the type of nut that has the something that has the soft covering that'll stain your fingers? 185: Yeah yeah. Interviewer: Now that part is the hull? 185: Um on a on a pecan or a pecan #1 that # Interviewer: #2 yeah # 185: part is the shuck. Interviewer: I see. 185: and then the hull is the um hard part that you crack. As far as a walnut goes I don't know what that what that great big outer layering is that you have to um scrape off and get down through that sort of pulpy part Interviewer: Yeah. 185: before you get down to the hull. Interviewer: Yeah. I was wondering if you would ever make reference to a walnut shell? Or just hull? 185: #1 Just a hull. # Interviewer: #2 Just hull. # Okay. Uh uh this probably doesn't grow around Ocilla it's a type of nut that you see uh around Christmastime a lot in stores, have a long oval shaped nut 185: Brazil nut? Interviewer: Brazil nut? Ever heard those called anything else? 185: Nigger toes. Interviewer: Yeah. What about almonds? 185: Almonds don't grow at home. Interviewer: They're available though? 185: Yeah you can get them at the grocery store. Interviewer: This uh fruit that grows uh uh especially well in Florida and California. That's the 185: Orange. Interviewer: Yeah. And this expressions I might say well I had a bowl of oranges on the table this morning but now they're 185: They're gone. Interviewer: Getting back to vegetables this uh rather small uh red-colored root vegetable, kind of hard, has a peppery taste to it you know uh some people slice it up and put it in green salads 185: {X} No Interviewer: Some some people call them horse 185: Horseradish. Interviewer: Yeah. Does that grow around? 185: Well not that I know of um some people may do it but not that I know of. Interviewer: Yeah. Well I'm sure this grows around there. A lot of people uh grow these oh you know great big red vegetables uh uh it's like a make a sandwich out of it, put it in uh 185: #1 Onions? # Interviewer: #2 salad # 185: No. Interviewer: #1 Well it # 185: #2 onion? # Interviewer: uh 185: Beets? No. Interviewer: Some people put stakes down you know in the vine? 185: Oh tomatoes Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Tomatoes, yeah. Interviewer: Do you have the small variety that doesn't get much bigger than that? 185: The cherry tomatoes? Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Um yeah. Some people grow them in their yard. Most people though who have them who have um gardens on on their farm may have a hill or two of those but usually they grow um larger tomatoes and um sell them in the early summer. Interviewer: I see. Ever heard that small variety referred to as {D: commie toes}? 185: No. Interviewer: Uh this uh uh another vegetable that you might have for a meal with your meat, you might have meat and 185: Potatoes. Interviewer: Different types? 185: Yeah Irish potatoes and sweet potatoes. And um sweet potatoes I guess everybody knows what those are. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Yeah. Interviewer: #1 You ever heard them called anything else or # 185: #2 Yams. # Interviewer: {D: yes} 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Same thing? 185: Yeah but m-m-most people say sweet potatoes. Interviewer: I see. You mentioned onions a minute ago. Are you familiar with this variety {D: Well back in the south it's kind of small} but the stalk attached to it 185: Mm-hmm Interviewer: You can think of a name? 185: #1 We've just always called them green onions # Interviewer: #2 Green onions. Yeah. # Uh some can you just name uh just {NS} right off the top of your head a few things that would go in a good vegetable soup? 185: In a good vegetable soup? Um some tomatoes, some potatoes, and some carrots and maybe some peas, some leftover English peas if you have those um just about anything you want to put in. #1 In the soup. # Interviewer: #2 What about # this stuff uh you didn't mention usually it's about so long kind of slender, green uh you can slice it up, fry it, or some people oh it gets a little bit slimy 185: Okra! Yes, okra's good. Interviewer: How do you like to eat that? 185: Um fried or boiled. Either way is good. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: Preferably fried. Interviewer: Mm I like the stuff too either way really. Say uh if you leave an apple around in the sun, not long before it'll dry up 185: And wither. Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Any other word you can think of mean about the same thing? It'll {D: puff} uh for that process? Wither or 185: #1 Where it dries up? # Interviewer: #2 Yeah. # As it gets smaller it'll 185: It dehydrates is what it does. Interviewer: What about would you ever say shrivel? 185: Yeah Mm-hmm. Interviewer: #1 Say # 185: #2 Yeah # #1 Shrivel. # Interviewer: #2 Okay. # 185: Okay. Interviewer: Uh What about some leafy vegetables? 185: Um turnips collards mustard um beets um cabbage Interviewer: And the main ingredient for green salad 185: For a green salad is lettuce. Interviewer: You mentioned uh turnips #1 {X} # 185: #2 Yeah. # Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Say if you if you cut off the tops of a lot of turnips. You'd say you have a mess of 185: Turnip greens. Interviewer: Ever heard that called anything besides mass of greens or a mass of turnip greens? 185: There's turnip salad only that's when they're real small leaves. Interviewer: I see. {X} say salad? 185: Not just salad. Interviewer: What about uh a few different kinds of beans that grow around your area? 185: Um there are green beans that grow on little bushes in the garden and then there're pole beans which most people grow on some sort of trellis or or fence and make them run a little bit. Those are about the only kind of beans that are at home. Um the green beans are sort of a a small round snap bean. And then um butter beans and um some people also grow butter peas and then they grow English peas and what's known as field peas. Interviewer: I see. You've just picked a lot of butter beans, you take them inside, you say you have to 185: You have to shell them. Or you shell butter beans. You snap the other beans. Interviewer: I see. I always preferred snap {D: for sure} 185: Yeah. Much less work. Interviewer: If uh Howard's going to send you to the store. He got some lettuce. I'd say something like well go up there and get me two 185: Two heads of lettuce. Interviewer: Or have you ever heard anybody refer say he had uh a lot of children maybe seven boys seven girls something like that uh he'd say that he has uh he has fourteen anything 185: Fourteen children. Fourteen younguns. Interviewer: Fourteen younguns yeah. 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Anybody you can remember ever referring to the children or you know the number as I have so many head of children? 185: No. No, not as not as head. Interviewer: What besides lettuce and that sort of thing have you ever heard referred to as something head? 185: Uh livestock #1 especially # Interviewer: #2 yeah # 185: cattle. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah I see. Or going back to about all the fourteen children talking about the number. You'd say that that guy has a whole 185: A whole passel, a whole mess. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: A slew of children. Interviewer: Slew. {X} 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Uh {NS} corn talking about corn that outside covering over near your corn you call that 185: That's the husk. Well the shu- that's the shuck. It's not the husk. Interviewer: I see. And you know on a a stalk of corn the stuff that grows right out of the top of the stalk 185: The tassel. Interviewer: Call that the tassel. Well what about you know the 185: It's also called some people call it the tassel. Interviewer: The tassel? 185: #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # Anybody who'd be more likely to say that? 185: Um my grandparents refer to it as tasseling out. Interviewer: Tasseling out? 185: Uh-huh. And um Interviewer: That means it's 185: That means that There are that means that it's tasseled out, the tassels have come on in the in the early summer and you're going to have corn in a few weeks. And um their tenant farmer always refers to it as the tassel. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. You know that stuff that you have to brush off the ears. You call that 185: Those are the silks. Interviewer: {X} names you know of people might use to refer to you know corn that's tender enough to eat right off the cob? 185: Um roasting ears. Interviewer: Roasting ears. Ever heard ever heard people call it mutton {X} mutton corn? 185: #1 No # Interviewer: #2 Just roasting # 185: Just roasting ears. Interviewer: And this these things uh well you see them quite fre- frequently now around Halloween people will uh buy them gonna make a 185: Pumpkins. Interviewer: Yes. Do those grow around uh #1 Ocilla? # 185: #2 Yeah # Um my grandparents usually grow pumpkins each year. They didn't have any of this last year um they couldn't gain seed. Interviewer: Yeah I see. 185: But usually they grow pumpkins. Interviewer: One of the vegetables I don't think you mentioned uh usually yellow and has {X} 185: Squash. Interviewer: Like that? 185: Yeah. Interviewer: {X} 185: Real well. Either fry it or boil it or put it in casserole. Just about any way. Interviewer: Yeah. What say uh s- different types of melons uh 185: Yeah watermelons and cantaloupe are the pri- are the main melons that grow down at home. Interviewer: S- have you ever heard of anything like uh a muskmelon? 185: Yeah Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Now is that unusual?} 185: It's not like a cantaloupe. A cantaloupe is round and a muskmelon or a mushmelon Interviewer: Same thing. 185: Yeah is is a li- is a little longer oval more elongated and tastes very much like a cantaloupe but I think has maybe a s- a little s- a slightly stronger flavor. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. Uh You mentioned watermelons. Do you have different colored uh meats #1 {X} # 185: #2 Yeah # Red meat and yellow meat Interviewer: Seemed that I've asked you {X} uh is it far as you know is there any way uh distinguishing between a red meat and yellow-meated watermelon without cutting it? 185: Um I think there is. If you know what varieties you've planted. Interviewer: Yeah 185: Um they'll either have a different shape the yellow-meated watermelons I've seen have been round and dark dark green. And um there's also a red-meated watermelon that's about the same color, a cannon ball. And um so that if you really knew your watermelons you might be able to. But I'm not I don't know. Interviewer: Any difference in taste #1 as far as you're concerned? # 185: #2 as # far as I'm concerned no. Interviewer: These things uh sometimes you see them growing wild in people's yards or they might grow in the woods you know. They look like little open umbrellas? About so big {X} 185: Mushrooms? Interviewer: Yeah. uh is is there something like a mushroom except uh #1 you know you can't eat some of them # 185: #2 yeah # Interviewer: #1 but # 185: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: is there something by a different name that's bad for you? 185: Um Interviewer: Make you really sick? 185: Well they have toadstools and I've never really known what the difference between a toadstool and a mushroom was. and um we've just always always left them alone Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. I see. Well say if somebody was uh oh had a sore throat and he was trying to eat something. Piece of steak maybe. He might say well I sure would like to but I just can't 185: I just can't swallow it. Interviewer: And these things that people smoke either 185: Cigarettes Interviewer: Or 185: or cigars or pipes. Interviewer: Say uh a lot of people were at a party. perhaps somebody began to play the piano and they all gather around and start 185: Start singing. Interviewer: Or somebody told a funny story, they start 185: Laughing. Interviewer: Uh say if uh somebody offered to do you a favor you might say something like well I sure do appreciate it but I just don't want to anymore. 185: I just don't want Interviewer: to be 185: to be beholden. Interviewer: Beholden yeah. Or anything else you know that mean the same thing pretty much? 185: #1 um # Interviewer: #2 {D: withholding or} # 185: be in debt #1 to. # Interviewer: #2 in debt yeah. # 185: I don't want to owe any woman. Interviewer: What about obligated? 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Same thing? 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Say if somebody asks you about doing a certain job uh and you would you might well say well sure I 185: Sure I'll do it. Interviewer: Or emphasizing the fact that you are able to you might say sure I 185: Sure I can. Interviewer: And the negative negative of that {X} 185: I can't. Interviewer: Uh say if uh there's a really bad accident on the road somewhere uh you might say well it's really not eh you need to call a doctor because {X} 185: Was dead. Interviewer: Or say if a farmer went out to inspect his corn and uh talking about you know the fact that the corn seems short 185: #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 he might say something like well # that's funny. For this time of year it be taller. 185: it ought to be. Interviewer: Or the negative of that. Now you might say about that kid well he got a whipping because he did something he 185: He oughtn't or he shouldn't. Interviewer: Do you use can you remember if you use oughtn't naturally? 185: I u- um not oughtn't. I say ought to be Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: with no trouble. I usually say shouldn't. Interviewer: Yeah yeah. Or speaking of say daring somebody to do something have you ever heard you know the negative of that? Uh I'll I'll dare you to go in that graveyard but I'll bet you 185: You daren't. I've never heard people use it. I've I've read books and they've used it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: But I've I've never heard anybody at home say it. Interviewer: Have you ever heard or read any kind of uh pronunciation for that that was a little different than daren't? 185: No. Interviewer: Ever heard somebody say dassent or read that? 185: Mm-mm. Interviewer: Or you're refusing to do something in a very strong way. You might say well now I don't care how many times you have to do that I just 185: Want Interviewer: Or uh suggesting say the possibility of your being able to do something. You know you're kind of unsure you might think well uh I'm not sure but I could do it. 185: But I might do it. Interviewer: Ever heard anybody say something you know almost the same as that. I I might do it or I might 185: Or I might not. Interviewer: Yeah. I was what I had in mind was uh you know uh the double modal like might could? Hear people use that much? I might could do that for you. 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: I've I I've I've I've heard people say might could I think I may have said it occasionally. Interviewer: Yeah. You have more than likely 185: I ima- I imagine so. Interviewer: Me too {D: do I} Let me ask you a few questions about uh different animals. Birds you know these birds that are supposed to be able to see in the dark? Call that 185: An owl? Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Do you know the different types? 185: Yeah there's barn owl and brown owl and um that's about all I can think of right now but there's several different types. Interviewer: Barn owl and brown owl. They pretty good sized? 185: Um bar- a barn owl is pretty small and a brown owl is pretty small too. The last brown owl I saw was in there's a vacant lot that's next door to us Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: and um I was walking down the street and I heard this owl and looked over and cou- I couldn't see it {NS} and then he stayed there for a day or two he was just sitting in a tree just roosting there and um daddy came home and said asked us if we knew that there was an owl in the tree, in one of the trees next door, I said {NW} that I'd looked for it and but I couldn't find it and he said yeah it was over there and so we went back out and you could see it. It was a brown owl. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: It wasn't very high. I guess it was maybe six inches tall. Sort of like in in the crotch of the of the tree and um blended right in. Interviewer: Well it I wondered if that's the same as uh well I'm thinking of a kind of small has a real high-pitched kind of piercing uh sound it makes 185: This wasn't high-pitched and piercing. Interviewer: Ever heard the screech owl? 185: Yeah. Mm-hmm. They're those are at home too Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: Cause I I've heard daddy talk about them. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh a big one another one that I think about a big one was uh really deep voice you know you hear it night a lot uh 185: I've heard them I've owl that um be out camping along the river I've heard those. I don't know what kind they are though. Interviewer: They're big, brown. Those hoot owls? 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Well this bird that drills holes in trees you call that 185: A woodpecker. Interviewer: Different types or 185: Um the only type we have at home is a red-headed woodpecker. Um there's an ivory-billed woodpecker but I think they're probably extinct by now. Interviewer: Uh you ever heard people refer to a woodpecker by any other 185: As a as a as a #1 pecker-wood. Yeah you said pecker-wood. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah I say pecker-wood. # Terrible. {NS} Do you ever heard a person refer to another person as a pecker-wood? 185: No. Interviewer: Have you ever heard that term at all in that 185: Yeah um I mean {D: the Oh-keys} southern politics right now and he he uses that word as um as politicians referring to people as pecker-woods. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Kind of derogatory uh 185: I I thinks I think he's talking about basically about um about rural people. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And um I think basically ba- basically the people who who voted for Jean Town and Interviewer: Yeah I see. Well this animal that gives off a powerful odor you know {X} 185: A skunk. Yeah um Our some people who no longer live next door to us um their children brought one home one time and um they really got quite smelly. And um it's against the law in Georgia to have a caged wild animal. So um we called the game warden. He came and and took the skunk away. Interviewer: {NW} Well have you ever heard people call a skunk anything else besides that? 185: I don't think so. Interviewer: No polecat. 185: Oh yeah. Yeah, polecat a lot of times. Interviewer: Same thing? 185: Yeah. And usually more often referred to as a polecat than a skunk. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. When I was in Arkansas this summer I ran into a a name for it. Actually it was not quite the same. Cinder cat? You ever heard of that? 185: {D: Not a cinder cat, no.} Interviewer: I think there's a slight difference in the way that they look but they both smell bad. Uh any general term say a comprehensive term that you might use to refer to animals like skunks or or weasels or foxes you know animals that would get into your hen roost and get your chickens and I'd say well I'm just gonna get my gun and get rid of those {NS} 185: I can't think of any Interviewer: Heard people use the word varmints? 185: Mm-hmm. But I don't I don't know if they were just specifically referring to those or referring to um to basically all sorts all sorts of animals as varmints. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {X} There's a little animal that you see around here a lot with a bushy tail, runs around trees 185: A squirrel. Interviewer: Different types? 185: Yeah um {NW} We have um gray squirrels like they have up here. We have fox squirrels too which um have really big bushy tails and are bigger than the gray squirrels and are um a little reddish-colored. And then they'll also have flying squirrels at home which are small and um they have under their front feet they have sort of um flaps of skin so they can sort of form wings when they go flying about Interviewer: Yeah. I've seen a lot of these little animals oh about so long, brown seems that they have dark stripes down their back? They run along the ground mostly 185: #1 Chipmunks. # Interviewer: #2 Chipmunk. # 185: Uh-huh. We don't have those at home. Interviewer: I had never really seen too many of them before I got up here. Uh have you ever heard people call chipmunks 185: Ground squirrels. Mm-hmm. Interviewer: {X} Uh you were talking about fish, freshwater fish, last time what about uh some different types of seafood that are available in stores in Ocilla? 185: Okay well you can get um shrimp and crab and oysters and um mullet sometimes you'll you can get snapper but not too often. Interviewer: {D: like this?} 185: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Interviewer: And then talking about you know fish amphibians whatever, this animal that uh you hear croaking all alone in ponds at night you call that 185: A bullfrog. Interviewer: He's the one with the 185: With the real real deep voice. Interviewer: Well is there a type that usually stays on on dry land? You know you're out in the garden uh 185: Yeah um I don't know if that's a frog or a toad but we always ref- we always just call them frogs. Interviewer: Frogs. What about toads frogs? Is that uh 185: I've heard that used but um Interviewer: Usually toad. 185: Usually a frog. Interviewer: Just frog. 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Well have you ever seen just these little tiny ones about so big? Uh 185: That are green? Interviewer: Yeah. 185: #1 Yeah they're rain frogs. # Interviewer: #2 Rain frogs. # 185: Uh-huh they usually start going when it rains. Interviewer: Why is that? So 185: I don't know but um they do. And I I can't really I can't really des- describe what they sound like but they they sound different from a bullfrog. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: And um they're green like you said and the only times I've ever heard them have been either when it's raining or right after it rained. Interviewer: Yeah yeah. I have had people tell me that it literally that they actually rained from the sky. {NW} 185: I I wouldn't doubt it I wouldn't doubt it. Interviewer: #1 Uh just go out the ground's covered with these little frogs. # 185: #2 these little frogs # Interviewer: {X} Uh uh I should've asked you this the other day when you were talking about different types of freshwater fish but what do uh {D: Sam I am} what do most people use for bait when they go fishing? 185: Um worms sometimes you use crickets um if you're going casting with a rod and reel usually you'll you you um an artificial lure. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Sometimes you'd use cut bait you'll um say catch a fish that you don't want, say it's like a bream and is real small and um you'll just gut him and and cut him into little chunks and use that. Interviewer: Yeah I see. Have you ever used this for {D: Paris bait} when you're going catfishing? 185: Um when we go catfishing um usually we use liver. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: Either chicken liver or beef liver. Interviewer: yeah b- 185: Sometimes we'll use mullet. Interviewer: Yeah. You ever heard of this stuff called catfish tripe? 185: Nuh-uh. Interviewer: {X} it's {NW} buy these little cups and you know like uh a yogurt kind of pan 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Uh it's a all kind of corruption and it's blood tripe and all and it really stinks but you know catfish'll bite it 185: Catfish cat catfish love things like that. Interviewer: {X} Uh you ever heard any particular names for different types of worms you like to use when you're fishing? 185: Um Interviewer: You know live ones? 185: Yeah um usually what if if you buy worms, you go out and buy Louisiana pinks. Um they're real long pink worms and what a lot of people have are um worm beds at their house. I say a lot of people. Not too many anymore. Um we used to have one at my grandmother's at my maternal grandmother's because her husband my grandfather had one and when he died, we just kept it, kept it going and um the tree that the tree that it was around, the roots just finally got so big and there was so many in there that um the worms just left. Interviewer: What about wigglers? Have you ever heard that used? 185: Yeah and they're night crawlers too. And um night crawlers you have to go out into the woods and get them. Not really into the woods, but what you do you go and find out h- you go and find where they are and there's you can always tell because where the hole is there's a little mound of dirt on top, little pellet-shaped dirt. And um there's some way if you take a stick and drive it into the ground and beat on a stick I think that's supposed to to um drive them out but I'm not sure. I'm not I'm not sure if that's the method. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: But there is some way that that you can get them out. Interviewer: Or maybe have a stake uh like you said driven in the ground and drug the lure across the top? 185: #1 I think # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 185: Yeah probably that too. Interviewer: I think I've heard people call that uh fiddling for them. If you fiddle 185: {NW} Interviewer: {X} What about this animal that has the hard shell you know he can throw in his head for protection 185: A turtle. Interviewer: Yeah. Is there uh different kinds that you 185: Yeah there's um two types that live in water one's a soft-shell turtle because it has a soft shell and another one's a loggerhead and um he's got a real big, thick neck and he's got real powerful mouth and um you have to be real careful because if he bites you he'll probably like wind up taking a finger off Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: Um There's also a type of turtle, I guess it's maybe a box turtle that is also in water and we always called it a str- a streaked-y head turtle because his head is green with yellow stripes. Then there's several types of land turtles the m- the one that I'm most familiar with is a big land turtle that we call a gopher. Interviewer: Mm 185: And um I think he probably gets maybe about two and a half feet across. He's about the largest one that I've seen. Interviewer: I see. That uh anything besides gopher for a land turtle that you know of? 185: Um they may be a tortoise. I don't know. But they're always referred to at home as a gopher. Interviewer: Ever heard anybody call one a cooter? 185: Yeah but I'm not sure if that was referred to as um as that or just as turtles in general. Interviewer: Yeah that will {X} any particular terms for one in the you know the ocean, sea call that a 185: That's an ocean turtle or sea turtle. Interviewer: Uh yeah that uh the um loggerhead that you were talking about ever heard anybody call that a snapping turtle? Is that the same thing? 185: I'm not sure if that's the same same thing as a snapping turtle or not. Interviewer: That uh the the {X} uh gopher distinction you know I ran into a a lot of strange looks out west this summer when I told people well back home you know I I call that a gopher #1 oh you totally got that all wrong. I'll tell you what a gopher is. # 185: #2 Yeah. # He he's this little thing that goes burrowing #1 down # Interviewer: #2 yeah # right {X} 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Okay. Uh these things that uh oh some people I believe eat these especially {NS} Louisiana {X} 185: Crawfish. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Crawdads. Um There are those at home too. But um I think they're becoming pretty scarce now. I think all the chemicals the farmers are using are wiping them out. Interviewer: #1 Use those for bait too, can't you? # 185: #2 Yeah. # Yeah. That's that's the what we're used to using them for at home Interviewer: Mm. 185: is for bait. And then we went out to New Orleans and um they're la- all the menus had like crawfish this and crawfish that on it. Interviewer: Yeah. I've never had any to eat. How how were they? 185: Well we had um some in a crawfish pie one time Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: and they were good. Interviewer: Ask you about a few different types of insects you know at night sometimes you see uh a lot of insects flying around lights 185: Lightning bugs. Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. 185: Fireflies. Interviewer: That flash on 185: Uh-huh. Interviewer: {X} Is that the the same type of of bug? You know a lot of them just seem to congregate around uh a light pole or something like that. Or maybe if there's an exposed light bulb on the porch they just fly in 185: Uh-uh. #1 Uh-uh # Interviewer: #2 {D: you're sure then} # 185: No I'm I'm pretty sure that those aren't the same kind that congregate around around lights. Interviewer: Have any idea of what you might call that type of bug? 185: The one that um we used to refer to them as light bugs um there's some type of moth that congregates around an exposed light. We have those at home. And then there's some other bugs too. But I don't think I I don't think that any of them are lightning bugs. Interviewer: I see. You ever heard people talk about {D: canvil wires} 185: {NW} I've heard that term before. I don't know if I've read it or what but um I have heard the term and I don't know I'm not sure what they are. Interviewer: Well these things that are bad about getting in your clothes and eating holes in them. Those are 185: Moths. Interviewer: Um an insect that you see around on the lights especially when you're fishing {D: maybe with a cane pole} these things can light on your pole you know? 185: Dragonflies? Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Heard people call it anything besides a dragonfly? {NS} 185: It seems like I have Interviewer: Yeah. 185: and I can't remember. Interviewer: What about uh snake doctor? 185: Mm-mm. Interviewer: Or well get back to this uh this insect you know that's bad about stinging you, you're sitting out on your porch and 185: A mosquito. Interviewer: Yeah. What about uh for dragonflies. Mosquito hawks? 185: Yeah. Yeah, that's what I've heard. That's what I've heard. Interviewer: And they're talking about the same thing? 185: I think so, yeah. Interviewer: Heard one called a a snake feeder? 185: No. Interviewer: Any that that term uh snake doctor you said you were f- 185: #1 No, no, not familiar with snake doctor. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Okay. Well what about some insects that are are are {X} stinging what's your 185: Oh we have yellow jackets and wasps and bees and there are hornets also um Interviewer: Pretty bad sting. 185: Yeah. Horse flies we have those, they bite. We don't have sand flies. So we're lucky about that {NS} Interviewer: Any you mentioned uh wasps what about this thing to a form of that, just one 185: There's a wasp. Interviewer: Yeah. These uh insects they they don't act- well they're bad about burrowing yeah uh you see them making a ditch. Have you ever going out and walking barefoot and you know #1 {X} # 185: #2 Oh oh a hook worm. # Interviewer: Hook worm? 185: Or a ring worm. Um {NW} we don't have any problem with those any more. Interviewer: Is that the same thing uh well I guess it's not but a red bug might have that same of thing 185: Uh uh red bug is not a hook worm it's not a worm. Red bugs do burrow in and they do they do itch. Interviewer: {NW} 185: But um they're not a- they're not as bad as as a worm, a ring worm or a hook worm is really difficult to kill and get rid of and with a red bug all you have to do is um cut off his oxygen supply Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: which we usually used with um some sort of grease finger nail polish, anything just paint over the area Interviewer: Yeah. 185: and cut off his oxygen supply. Interviewer: Any other term for red bug that you know of? 185: Um chigger. Interviewer: Chigger? 185: But most people at home call them red bugs. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see. Uh one thing I wanted to pick up from your uh dissertation on snakes like that it was good uh coach whip? You ever heard of that? 185: No. Interviewer: Haven't heard of that before. Back to insects these things that you see hopping along in your front yard sometimes you know 185: A grasshopper. Um yeah we have those. Interviewer: Ever heard them called anything besides grasshopper just in general or? 185: I can't think of anything. Interviewer: I want to ask you about you know pecker-wood. #1 That {X} there # 185: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: What about hopper-grass? That familiar to you? 185: No. Interviewer: Or something else that uh uh uh has to do with insects you know these things sometimes they collect inside people's houses in the corners of their ceiling and they have to get a broom and 185: Spiders. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Now what exactly are you referring to when you say spiders? Are you referring to the insect or the thing that uh you know they uh they weave 185: The thing they weave is their web. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Um Interviewer: #1 So you'd say you're {X} # 185: #2 That's a cobweb. # Interviewer: Cobweb. 185: Right but the little animal that weaves it is a spider. Interviewer: Well {NS} is that the same thing uh {NW} #1 spider webs you can have in the corner # 185: #2 yeah you can have # spider webs #1 too # Interviewer: #2 and that's the # #1 same thing I see I said # 185: #2 as a cobweb # Interviewer: Yeah. #1 Outside in front of the bushes or something like that # 185: #2 Mm-hmm yeah. # Interviewer: I see. Or uh uh a type of uh tree that you might uh tap for syrup 185: A maple? Sugar maple? Interviewer: {NW} 185: We don't have those. Interviewer: Well what about if you had a lot of those trees together? You'd call that a maple 185: If it was planted it a an an orchard if um if they were just there naturally you'd probably just refer to it as a grove. Interviewer: A grove. I see. What what about since we're on the topic of trees some of the common trees around Ocilla? 185: Okay. Pine trees are real common um they grow that a lot for lumber and they used to grow they they used to turpentine them a lot but they don't do that much anymore. Um labor's too expensive for one thing. That that's the main thing is that la- is that labor's too expensive for turpentine. Um And it's probably not available anymore either. Um pecan trees um oak trees live oak water oak or black oak um which is also a black jack oak oak and um grows in real sandy areas it's also a scrub oak and is hard wood and almost a {D: studded} tree. Interviewer: Mm 185: Um we have a lot of cypress trees in wet areas and pon- and around ponds. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: Um willow trees sycamore trees um dogwood trees redbud trees um gum trees um there are maples at home red maples I believe is what they are. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: Um China berry trees um #1 that's about all I can think of. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # What about a tree that's fairly common here in the south? I think it's the state tree you know of Mississippi has the #1 the green shiny- yeah # 185: #2 Oh magnolias. # Yeah we have mag- we ha- we have magnolias at home. Interviewer: Yeah I see. Uh you ever heard of any type of of bush that uh has these red berries on it? Uh I think that way back when all the old people would use them in tanned leather in that process. You ever heard anything like that? 185: A holly? Um Interviewer: Or are you familiar with the term shoemake? Or sumac? 185: Um it's at home um it we have poison sumac, sumac, whatever and um that's the only way I'm familiar with it. Interviewer: Mm. I see. Well say uh uh another plant that you know if you get into it'll make your skin break out and itch like crazy 185: Poison ivy or poison el- and and poison elder. Interviewer: And poison what? 185: Poison elder. Interviewer: {D: what is that?} 185: Um elder is in two types. There's white elder that has a white bloom and then there's pink elder. If you ever see elder with with pink blooms, stay away from it because it's poison. And that's also known as thunder wood. Interviewer: Thunder wood. 185: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: {D: where have you heard that?} 185: I've heard my mother refer to it as thunder wood before. Interviewer: Why thunder do you say? 185: I don't know why thunder wood. I don't know if it's if it's Indian derivation or what. Interviewer: Hmm. Interesting. Is uh well do you have anything like #1 poison oak or have you ever heard of uh # 185: #2 Yeah. # Poison oak is at home. We have poison ivy. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. #1 And same effect as the {X} # 185: #2 Yeah. # Interviewer: #1 Mm. # 185: #2 Mm-hmm. # Only I think poison elder is probably about twice as worse as any of the others. Interviewer: Yeah. One thing I wanted to go back and pick up that you mentioned is you said something grows you know the past of that you'd say yesterday 185: It it grew Interviewer: And 185: and it has grown. Interviewer: Uh and when you were talking about berries a minute ago I don't think you mentioned this type but it's a berry you know {D: with so shape} with you're having shortcake uh uh 185: Strawberries. Interviewer: Yeah. 185: Yeah. Interviewer: Where do they grow? 185: They grow at home. People usually um just grow them in the garden for their own use. Interviewer: I see. You ever heard of any types of uh flowering bushes that bloom preferably in the spring? 185: Azaleas? We have those um that's primarily the main flowering bush Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 185: there is at home. Interviewer: {NW} 185: There are others that but I I can't think of right now. Interviewer: Any type of laurel? 185: Yeah um we have crepe myrtle and those grow those bloom in the summer. Interviewer: Mm. I see. 185: We have those. Interviewer: You ever heard of mountain laurel? 185: Yeah. Um I've seen that {NS} um we brought some home and had it in the backyard for about fifteen years and it finally died this past year. The drought got it. Interviewer: Mm. 185: We kept watering it and watering it and um well we didn't realize that it was in in the sad shape that it was until it was pretty much too late then. Interviewer: Mm. 185: And it went ahead and died. But um we had it like I said for about fifteen years and it did bloom and grow. It didn't do real well but it did survive for about fifteen years. Interviewer: {X} Any rhododendrons? 185: Um rhododendron and mountain laurel are basically the same thing and the azaleas at home are a form of rhododendron. Interviewer: I see. We'll take a break #1 in just twenty-five minutes # 185: #2 Okay. # Interviewer: Say I'll ask you about uh some family relationships say uh if someone asks your mother who uh {NS}