Interviewer:  {NS} This is Nancy. {B} I am recording in Bessemer, Alabama, Jefferson County on November second, third and fourth of nineteen seventy-three. My informant is Mrs. Alma {B} of {B}. Her birthplace is Bessemer, Alabama. She is seventy-two years old, a white female, and a member of the First Methodist Church. She is now a housewife. She was previously a clerk in her husband's dry goods store for fifty years. Prior to that, she had completed the eleventh grade in Bessemer High School. She was born in Bessemer and has lived here all of her life. She's had very limited travel, with the exception of visiting one of her seven daughters on several occasions at their respective homes. Her mother was born in Birmingham, Alabama. Her father was born in Bessemer, Alabama. Her mother completed the eighth grade, Her father finished high school and was a teacher and a Presbyterian minister. Both of her maternal grandparents were born in Birmingham, Alabama, and both of paternal grandparents were born in Bessemer, Alabama. {NS} {NS} There, just tell us a little about yourself.
370B:  Well I was one of thirteen children, believe it or not. My mother had, uh, eight, I mean seven boys and six girls. And we were raised on a farm, my daddy, uh, had cows and horses and, uh he, uh, sold vegetables and things like that, and also milk and butter. And we also had a little mercantile store out there, but there was enough of us to look after all.
Interviewer:  Did ya have any chickens?
370B:  And we had chickens, and just, in fact, he sold, uh eggs specially for hatching and I'm the one that had to see that these eggs were turned every day until he sold 'em. And he had about five different kinds of chickens, and we had 'em all in different pens, and we had to keep these eggs separately. He had the speckled hamburg, and the white rocks, and the red rocks, and, oh, I don't know how many different kinds. And so people from town would come out in the country, you see, where we lived, we lived about two miles out of town. And they would come out for milk and butter and vegetables and their setting eggs and things like that. So, uh, I really enjoyed getting the eggs. But on Sun-, and I also helped milk the cows, now, I think this was just real, real cute, and I had uh one, I had two brothers, smaller, younger, rather, than I am.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And they would come out, and when I would milk the cow, they would open their mouths, and I'd milk the milk in the {NW} in their mouths, it was just, we had lots of fun.
Interviewer:  Did y'all all just drink the milk right out of the, #1 ya didn't #
370B:  #2 Well #
Interviewer:  sterilize it or anything?
370B:  No sterilizer, but we had to be very particular with it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  We always strained it through a double cloth. But um, And then, too, Mama never had her milk airtight, because that, I don't know what that does to it, but she'd always tie a cloth over it instead of a lid of any kind, to make it tight, but she would tie a cloth over it. And we also had a big walk-in box that we would set our milk in there and keep it good and cold.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  Except, of course, when she wanted it to {D:clobber}. And we had a, what they call a barrel churn, I don't know, it had two handles on either side,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  because he had several, I don't know how many cows we had, I guess you'd call it a small dairy.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And we would put this milk in here, and one would get on one side, and turn, you know, turn the barrel,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  and one would be on other. Uh, course, one could turn it, but generally two of us did, cause we had more fun, ya know. {NW} And so after, I remember, before we got married, before, uh, I was in, uh, you know, kinda looking, had an eye on the boys.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
370B:  I, on Sunday afternoon, I wouldn't wanna have to milk but, uh, course the cows have to milk, have to be milked on Sunday, same as any day, and our dairy and all was over across the road from the house.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  Down, I don't know how many acres we had, but we had acreage on both sides of the road.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And so, on Sunday afternoon, we would just have a, a time, getting down there and getting those cows milked and getting back across the road so our boyfriend wouldn't see us crossing the road, ya know, milking the cows. We weren't old enough to have any better sense. Course I married very young. But this was when I had just began to go with the boys, you know.
Interviewer:  How old were you then?
370B:  Oh, I was about twelve years old.{NW}
Interviewer:  Oh, you did start young!{NW}
370B:  So what else now do you wanna know?
Interviewer:  Well, did you ever call the cows?
370B:  #1 What did you call it, when you wanted them to come to, what did you call it? #
Interviewer:  #2 Well, uh, we had a pasture there that was, #
370B:  and they would always come up to the back of the lot, ya know, ready to get in. And the boys would go in, and, uh chain 'em up or fasten 'em or whatever and feed 'em, and, uh, my sister and I, one of the sisters, I've forgotten which one, Grace said she was always too smart to learn how to milk, she was just older than I, but I got lots of fun out of it, I didn't know any better. But, um we didn't have to call 'em, they were always right there, they would come out of the pasture, you see, in to eat,
Interviewer:  #1 and then we'd #
370B:  #2 Oh. # turn 'em out at night.
Interviewer:  Did ya have any pigs?
370B:  And we had, oh yes, we had pigs, and, uh #1 cows and goats. #
370B:  #2 Did you eat the meat? # Oh, yeah, we had goats, and, and, Oh, Mama could fix the best barbecued goat you ever ate in your life, there's a lotta people who don't like goat. But I guess they just don't know how to butcher 'em, they say there's a lot in that.
Interviewer:  How do you do it?
370B:  Well, there's certain glands and things you have to cut out to keep it from tasting like goat, ya know.
Interviewer:  Oh.
370B:  Well, you just, uh, kill 'em and skin 'em, just like you do a cow, or
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  something like that. And of course, you know pigs, you have to scald them, #1 pour hot #
Interviewer:  #2 The whole pig? #
370B:  have to scald 'em, pour hot water on 'em and scrape 'em. You don't skin a pig.
Interviewer:  Why not?
370B:  Well, they're just not supposed to be skinned, I guess. They, you know, they use the, the hide and all, for cows
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  for leather, and stuff like that. But the, uh, I imagine, the pig skin is just too tender; it it's just no good for anything, and they just pour this boiling water on it, and uh, scrape the hair off. They have a real sharp knife, and they just scrape it, just like you shave, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And then another thing, um, I remember that Mama used to cook out fat.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  We'd make all of our pure lard.
Interviewer:  #1 And, #
370B:  #2 Oh. # and she had big, uh, five-gallon, uh, maybe ten-gallon jars,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  uh, milk jars, just like a milk jar. And, uh, we would fill that with lard, and we made all of our lard, all of our butter when we churned, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And we had our chickens, and, in fact Dad didn't have to buy anything much, except just flower, and meal, and sugar, and coffee.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And we had our own meal because he, uh, had that ground, he didn't have to buy that.
Interviewer:  Oh, he grew the.
370B:  We grew the corn, and he, we had the homemade meal, and it was really good. I remember, uh, at, uh, night, Mama, you know, with thirteen children, she was always busy doing something.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
370B:  But we'd take it time about and uh I remember, my sister Grace said that her job was to, um bake the sweet potatoes and some hot cornbread, and we'd have ice-cold sweet milk and stuff like that for dinner. At night, you know after you come in.
Interviewer:  Oh, you had your big meal at, at noontime, then?
370B:  Uh huh. And that was when we weren't in school,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  Mama always did. But of course when were still in school, she'd have it at night.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  But, um, we'd always have hot cornbread to go with that, uh, ice-cold sweet milk for dinner, didn't make a difference why else we'd have it at night, you know. But we'd have that hot cornbread, and it was just real good.
Interviewer:  What, did she bake it in a, uh, pan? A big skillet?
370B:  She just baked it in a big iron skillet.
Interviewer:  And and uh was it a wood stove or
370B:  It was a wood stove, and how in the world my mother ever stood what she had had to go through with I don't know and raise those thirteen children, but this kitchen was just, uh, built on.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  Half of the back porch was built into a kitchen.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, uh, to make more room, we took our regular kitchen and then made, uh, a big bedroom out of it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, uh, we had this, um, coal stove, and it really got hot in the summertime.
Interviewer:  I'll bet.
370B:  But later on, of course, after all the children were grown and married, uh, my daddy built in town. And they moved to town, and she had all the conveniences that, uh, anybody had.
Interviewer:  #1 And she, #
370B:  #2 She had electricity? # She had electricity, uh, but, she didn't have a gas stove, she had an oil stove for a while, and then I think she had an electric stove. But, uh, she, um, we never had a bathroom out in the country, we,
Interviewer:  Never?
370B:  never had a bathroom.
Interviewer:  Did you take baths in the kitchen?
370B:  Uh, we had a back room, and we had a, a big ol' tub. And, uh, we bathed in that back room. But, um, I don't know they, I guess they just didn't have bathrooms way back then.
Interviewer:  The, how'd you get the water out of the tub?
370B:  Oh, well, you'd just have to pick up the tub, two of you, and take it and pour it out. But, uh, we had a well right on the back porch, that #1 was good. #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
370B:  But, uh, have to heat your water, course the stoves, back then, had a, uh, cistern like on the side of it, just a, well, I don't know what you'd call it, anyway, you kept hot water in that. You didn't have to boil it, your water every time, I mean, heat it, because you already had it. But, uh, she had to cook, but everybody in that community, I guess, because we had all these children and everybody liked to come home with us, because Mama was such a good cook.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And, uh, she, uh, made these, uh, great big chicken pies, I've got some dishes in here that, uh, used to be hers, and she had this big ol' {X}. And instead of us going home with other people, they always come home with us. And Mama never said a word, we had all the company you could think of, and every preacher that came down there, uh, Al had, uh, was headquarters They would come and, uh, spend the night with brother {D:Allender), they called him. So, um, I just don't know, I, I said after we were all grown and married and children of our own, we could look back and just see what Mama went through with.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  I said, I wouldn't have let my kids bring all those kids home with 'em. But, uh, I guess I did, though, because I had seven girls myself,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  and they all had girlfriends, and they liked to come to our place, because we were in business and had all kind of candies and cakes and coca-colas, and all that kind of stuff, you know. And they would just go in the store and get what they wanted.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And, I, like I said, when I said if I was Mama, I wouldn't let 'em, but I, I did do it, when I was Mama, I did.
Interviewer:  Yeah, when they're yours, you don't {X}.
370B:  No, you don't mind. And, uh, we never did tell 'em, now you just can't go in the cash drawer, now you stay out of the cash drawer, you can't do this, you can't do that. If they wanted anything, they'd say, well now I want so and so, and I'd just say, well, go get it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And they knew that we trusted 'em. And I don't think they ever did anything that, uh, they shouldn't have done.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  They might have slipped and stayed home from school, uh, played hooky or something like that once in a while, but, uh, even after they started having dates and all, they'd come in kinda late, and I'd be sitting up, and I'd say, Well did ya have a good time with so and so and so and so, you know? They'd say, well, how did you know? I didn't realize you even know. No, we'd have a good time.
Interviewer:  What time did y'all have to get up in the morning to do all that egg business and everything {X}?
370B:  Well, now, I did my egg business when I came home from school in the afternoon and helped milk the cows.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  But I didn't, uh, I didn't do much housework, now, uh, you know, work around in the house, clean up, everything like that. But the eggs was my that was {X} responsibility. I just had to do, look after those. And, I, I did help milk the cow, and then I did stay in the store some on Saturdays. Now, we didn't keep the store open all the time, they'd just come to the door, and that's another thing my mother had to do. If wasn't any of us there, to go, to the store, why, uh, she would run out there and wait on 'em,
Interviewer:  #1 you know, and then #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # lock the store, and, uh, I guess, really and truly, what we had the store for was mostly for our own convenience. {NW} So, we had so many things, you know, that you need.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
370B:  #1 And #
Interviewer:  #2 With thirteen. #
370B:  Yeah. So, uh, I think that was one reason that we had the store, but we didn't keep it open all the time {X} We'd go when somebody came and wanted, uh, something out of the store, we'd run it then, let 'em have it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  {X} You're trying to stop it?
Interviewer:  No, there you go. Uh, what kind of vegetables did you have?
370B:  Oh, we had, uh, Irish potatoes, and sweet potatoes, and rutabaga turnips, and green beans, and mustard, and, uh kale, I remember my Papa used to have lots of kale.
Interviewer:  What's that?
370B:  Uh, it's kind of a slick something, something like a collard, but it isn't. It grows more like a turnip green, instead of a heading like a collard.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And collards, and, uh, it seemed to me like he, he even raised some, uh, sorghum at one time, you know, uh, had syrup made out of it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And, uh, onions, and we would dry our own onions. And of course Mama always canned a lot of this stuff. But, now, the sweet potatoes and, uh, Irish potatoes and things like that, we'd have, and turnips too, now that's one thing that I don't, I'm, don't ever remember seeing anybody else do, they would their turnips in a bed and cover 'em with all this dirt and stuff, just like you do sweet potatoes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Outside, you mean?
370B:  Out in the field, and when you wanted turnips, they'd go and just dig down under there and get those turnips, and they had already begun to sprout a little
Interviewer:  #1 bit, you know. #
370B:  #2 Uh-huh. # But that didn't hurt 'em, they were just real good. That's one thing that we always had was anything you could think of to plant, my daddy planted it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And he sold a lot.
Interviewer:  Did ya have corn and all that too?
370B:  Corn, uh-huh.
Interviewer:  Mm.
370B:  I remember one year, uh, one of my brothers, uh, Fred, just older than I am, he, uh, I believe it was the four-H club or something, anyway, he wanted to see how much corn he could make on an acre.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And you would be surprised, I don't remember the number of bushels that he did, uh, make, but it was a tremendous amount, so much more than you just
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  generally would make. You know, taking very, all kind of pains with it, and do, doing just like the book said, and all that kind of stuff. But, uh, Papa was a real good farmer. Everybody said he could make a living on a rock, if he {X}. But, uh, I, he just did a wonderful job with the, with the kids, I know that.
Interviewer:  Can you remember all their names?
370B:  Oh, yes, the oldest one was Tom.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And he was named after my daddy's daddy.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And then there was Rob, I'll name the boys first.
Interviewer:  Okay.
370B:  Tom, and Rob and Ed, and Fred and William, and Charlie, and {D:Bia}
Interviewer:  {D:Bia}?
370B:  {D:Bia. Biving} Isaac. Now, he was the last one, and he was named after my daddy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  He was the last boy. And the girls were, uh, Cora, and Jane, and Grace, and Alma And Lillian, and Vera.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
370B:  Now, there's just supposed to be six of 'em, I don't know how many I named, but there was seven boys and six girls.
Interviewer:  I say.
370B:  And the funniest thing about that, they was, uh, six blue-eyed and six brown eyes. Now that's just twelve.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  But, now, I don't know which one, uh, William died before I was born, I don't know the color of his. But I know that she raised ten to be grown. Ten to be grown, well, she raised more than that to be grown, she raised, um, twelve to be grown, she lost Billy, I mean William.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  That's the only one, cause I remember all the others.
Interviewer:  #1 And #
370B:  #2 that's quite an accomplishment. # Yes.
Interviewer:  All on the farm.
370B:  Uh-huh. Well, no, not all on the farm, because, uh, well, yes, I guess it was on the farm too, because he didn't move to town until, um, after I married.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And you were what, fifteen?
370B:  Oh, I was sixteen, and just a little over, my mother was only fifteen when she married. But I was sixteen and about two thirds, I'd reckon.
Interviewer:  How'd you meet your husband?
370B:  Oh, well I had a brother, that, uh um, lived just above where they lived. They lived in the lower house, in one of my daddy's houses, they lived in my daddy's house, and, my brother lived in the other house just above the, where they lived.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  They were living in town, my husband was, but their daddy had a breakdown, and they had to get out.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, so they moved out, this was just on the outskirts, and they were going in business out there. And, uh, so, I was staying with my brother, going to school in town, my daddy still lived in the
Interviewer:  #1 country. #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # But, uh, I had gone across the road, uh, just, the house just above where we were staying, to use the telephone. And I, walking down, from the hill, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  and he was standing on this porch, uh, they had, uh, rented my, uh, daddy's store,
Interviewer:  #1 too. #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # And they, uh, was standing on the porch, he was, my husband now. And he looked up, and he said, well, who is that fat little girl coming down that hill? {NW} And so, he said he'd never, never sees me unless he thinks about it.
Interviewer:  Y'all have been married how long now?
370B:  Fifty-six years. But, uh, I just passed him by, you know, and uh, he looked at me, I went on down to my brother's, and, which was just next door to the store,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  well, there was about a half a block in between the store and the house. And, um, so, he had to pass by in front, you see, going to his house, which was next door. And uh, he uh, would stop and speak, and all like that, and, ya know, he was just as red-headed as he could be, and I wondered who that red-headed boy was 'til I met him, and he wondered who that little fat girl was. {NW} But, uh, it was just too funny, uh, we got to be very close, and he never let anybody, um, know that he was caring anything about me, now I didn't let him know that I cared about him. So, uh, when my brother moved to Birmingham, well, uh, his mother ask my, my people, said, why don't you just let Alma come on up, and stay with us, and go to school,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  during the week? And, uh, said, we'll bring her home on Saturday. Well, uh, Papa said, well, I'll tell you what I'll do, said, I'll bring her up Monday morning, and then, uh, get her Satur- Friday afternoon.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  Well, Friday afternoon, Papa would always come for me, but on they wouldn't wait until Monday. They would come down after me Sunday afternoon. And, uh, so Mama asked me one day, she said, which one of those random boys are you liking? I said, well aw, I don't care anything about either one of 'em, or something like that. And she said, don't tell me they've come down here and get you every Sunday afternoon to go riding with 'em if they, one of those boys and you weren't interested in each other. So I just laughed, but anyway, his mother, and his father, and his sister and his brother, they would all come for me, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. They come in a, a car?
370B:  Uh, an automobile, they had an automobile, too. Well, we had one, but ours wasn't, uh, our, I think a Ford was the first kind we got. But anyway, they would come down and pick me up in an automobile, I think it was a {D:veelay}. It seemed to me like they used to have one that ca- that was called {D:veelay}. Anyway, um, we'd go to Montgomery, and they wouldn't even wait 'til I got out of church, they'd meet me down at the church, you know.
Interviewer:  What did you do about dinner?
370B:  Well, we'd get dinner, you know, we'd, uh, either eat at their house, I either stop on the road and eat somewhere, wherever we were going, we would stop and eat. And, uh, so, they would always see that I sat on the front seat, you see, Tom would be driving, and I'd sit on the front seat by him.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  But, uh, my mother-in-law and my daddy-in-law, I think, uh, were just about as crazy about me as Tom was, they was so anxious, they, they, I told Tom, I said, they knew what you, they were getting, they was getting a clerk in that store. And, but, I did help 'em out in the store some. And, but he, uh, show you way we did, cause, so there wouldn't be any talk, you know, people would talk
Interviewer:  #1 about #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # those days, now, if I, if they knew that Tom and I were crazy about each other and me staying there going to school,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  they, might have been some talk. But he went with other girls, all the time. #1 Oh, yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 Ooh, did that make you jealous? #
370B:  Well, I didn't care too much, because I, I, felt like he was crazy about me anyway, he'd go with me on Sundays and things like that, the days that I really had, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  He was always with me. But one time, I never forget that, uh, his mother called me, and he, she said, Alma, said, I want you to do me a favor, I said, well, what is it? She said, well, Tom and some crazy boys are fixing to leave home. And said I'm, said, they're rough boys. And said, I know you're the only person that can keep him from going. And I said, oh, now Mrs. Riley, you know I can't do that, I said, I can't, I ain't got any strings on him, I can't ask him not to go. And she said, well, as a favor to me, will you ask him? So, uh, I just told him that, uh, I heard he was fixing to leave home, and, uh, I'd rather he wouldn't go, or something like that, you know. And, uh so, um, he didn't go. He did not go. I don't know whether I had anything to do with it or not, but she always thought I did.
Interviewer:  That's why you were her favorite.
370B:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Where were they gonna go?
370B:  Oh, they were just going, just, take a trip somewhere, do something, you know, just, and she's afraid they would get into trouble. Because, you know, back then, they all wore guns, and all that kind of stuff, you know. It was kinda rough over there, and delivering groceries, and things like that, they delivered groceries back then, with a horse and wagon.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And they were out all times of night, and there were just lots of meanness. And we had a lot of colored {D:trade}, too. And, uh, they were just, kinda, bad boys in a way, but, they, they weren't bad either. I don't know what you'd say, they were just
Interviewer:  {X}
370B:  They, yeah, uh-huh, they had to take care of themselves. But, uh, I really, when she call me, I had, this is kinda, uh, late, but when she call me and ask me to do that, Tom and I were kinda on the outs. He had gotten mad with me, because, I was with another boy out at West Lake. And he was home sick. But, uh, I really, it was one of his friends, I didn't think anything about it, you know.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And then, he had been, uh, uh, I don't where you'd say, uh, coming down to the church where I went, at night, uh, and had seen me go home with certain boys, and different things, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And he was kinda mad about that too, and he, we just, had, had gotten to where we, I was staying there going to school, but anyhow, uh, we weren't close,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  like we had been, and I told, uh, his mother, I said, well, you know, me telling him not to go wouldn't have any effect on him, because, I said, you know, Tom and I are not even, going together now, or something to that effect, and she said, well, I know one thing, I know you're the only one that can keep him from going. So, uh, from then on, we made up, you
Interviewer:  #1 see, by #
370B:  #2 Uh-huh. # me asking him not to go. And that was just too bad, you see what it led to, don't you?
Interviewer:  {X}
370B:  {NW} But I thought that was right cute, her calling me and asking me to, please ask him not to go, said, I know you're the only one that can keep him from going.
Interviewer:  Well, apparently, it worked.
370B:  Well, it, it worked alright, he didn't go. And I didn't go to school that, that winter, either.
Interviewer:  Oh, why?
370B:  I, I always go, well, we got married.
Interviewer:  Oh, oh, yeah.
370B:  I, uh, went to Tuscaloosa, my oldest sister lived in Tuscaloosa, and with Mama so many children, uh, she always, helped me get my clothes ready for school.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  So I were down there, and she was helping me getting my clothes and all ready, but when I got back home, I never did go to school that winter, we got married instead. So I, I clerked in the store, these, you know, the next, well, we lived in that one house up there fifty years.
Interviewer:  In that same house?
370B:  Well, right across the road from where, uh, we were in business, right there on the same street, but we did move across the road, in a bigger house and, um, we lived there, uh, fifty years.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  My children all were born there. And, uh so, we've been out here now six years.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  So, we've been married fifty-six years.
Interviewer:  That's a pretty successful courtship.
370B:  Yeah, and you know why, uh, when we first married, uh, I, I've got some granddaughters now that's thinking about getting married. And I wouldn't advise them to get married at sixteen, like I did.
Interviewer:  Oh, really?
370B:  Even though I worked out fine.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  But we always lived in the house with his mother and father.
Interviewer:  Oh, really?
370B:  We never lived to ourself. But, we had, uh a cook,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  we had a maid to clean up the house, and we had a maid to wash the clothes and iron. And then uh we had um one to look after the children.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And I worked in the store.
Interviewer:  #1 And #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # his mother and father worked in the store. And then we had, um, my sister and my brother, and a butcher, and, um another boy. George, uh Barksdale.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  All worked there. And I mean, we worked from the time we got up until, well, until grandmama and grandaddy got so old, they, uh, couldn't do very much, we started closing at six o'clock in the afternoon.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  But others, uh, when they were, oh, six, fifty or sixty, maybe sixty-five years old, we stayed in that store, maybe, until ten, eleven o'clock at night.
Interviewer:  Mm.
370B:  And, as long as you stay in a place, there will be people,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  regulars, just come in. And the ones that live right across the street, wait until just, when we got ready to close up, here they came,
Interviewer:  #1 you see. #
370B:  #2 Uh-huh. # So Tom told his daddy, he said, now listen, said, I'll tell ya. This is just getting me down, well, he had a heart attack, Tom did, and, uh, he said, we just gonna have to have regular hours. We'll open at, um, I think we opened at eight o'clock. And we're gonna close at six. But, uh, his daddy, uh, so used to these long hours, you know, when he first, uh, came to Bessemer, his daddy worked for Rosenbaum, in Bessemer.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  They were Jews, and they had, uh, uh, just, they just sold, um oh, oh, Well, they'd just sell cloth, and stuff like that.
Interviewer:  Dry goods?
370B:  Dry good stores. And, uh, so, you know, they stayed open kinda late,
Interviewer:  #1 and they would, #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # when, uh, grandaddy and them moved out there, like I said, he had this breakdown, and he had to, uh, he went in business for himself. And his boys, they, he took Tom and George out of school.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, uh, they moved out there, in my daddy's store, and, uh, went into mercantile business. And he still believed in that, just driving, you know, like
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  the Jews do, they really, they believed in making money.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And, I guess we did, have just about anything you would want, and, had the horses, and, uh, the girls could ride the horses, and all this, that, and the other, and,
Interviewer:  Did y'all have animals? The cows, and all that out there too?
370B:  We had a cow, and we had, um, these horses, and we had chickens. But, uh, it got to where we didn't have time to take care of any chickens, we couldn't have any chickens, and we just still had the one cow, but grandaddy, grandmama milked her mostly. And, uh, but we did have, uh, {D:told} the last, I forgot how many horses we had, three, four horses out there though the girls, you know, could ride. And we would ride way out in the country, and I would never forget, one afternoon, Tom and I, I was always scared to death of a horse, but he just would have me go with him. And we were riding, and it was kinda in a swampy-like place, out in the woods, and the horse was going down, a little ditch or something, I don't know, anyway, I didn't know enough about it to hold the lines tight.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And I just let him go, go on, and, I like to went over his head, you know. And Tom told me, said, you know what's wrong with you, said, you, that, said, chewing gum. Said, you just chewing that gum too fast, I was scared to death, and he tells everybody that, uh, I couldn't ride the horse for chewing my gum, I chewed it to fast and scared the horse to death, all that, but I think, uh, my girls really enjoyed themselves coming up, they were just tom-boys.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  They wore overalls, and they liked to fight, and, uh, they had lots of, oh, Lord, they had lots of, uh, narrow escapes fighting. I never forget, one of 'em was, red-headed.
Interviewer:  #1 Tommy, I mean, #
370B:  #2 Uh-huh. # not Tommy but, Mary Jane,
Interviewer:  #1 I get the name mixed up. #
370B:  #2 Yeah, I remember Mary Jane. # Mary Jane had red hair and coming home from school, the boys would tell, um, call her redhead.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  She says, now if you call me redhead one more time, I'm just gonna beat your brains out. And, uh, so, uh, this little ol' boy, they, walking along and they got near a brick store, you know, and that was the wrong thing to have done. Uh, to have called her redhead that this brick store, so she grabbed that boy, and carried him over that store, and just began to butt his head against that, and as a man passed 'em, and, and he was scared to death, he ran up there, and he says, mister {D:Reinel}, said, do you know that redheaded girl of yours has got a boy down there, just beating his head against that store? And, uh, she said, well, said, uh, who's getting the best of her, said, is she taking care of herself alright? He said, oh yes, said, she's taking care of herself, but says, I'm afraid she's gonna kill that boy. And Tom said, well, you just leave 'em alone, says, they'll get along alright. Oh, just lots of, lots of things, and Alma Elizabeth, she, uh, was, uh, I've forgotten, which, which one now, it was either Tommy, or {D:Adele}, that some negroes down there in the alley had been, kinda, picking at them.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  And, uh, so Alma Elizabeth just got her a big butcher knife, and went out there and sat down on that, um, {NS} uh, fence, we had, um, uh, yep what kind of a fence, anyway, it was made out of these, uh, concrete blocks,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. all the way around the front, and she'd sit out there, and she'd wait until these niggers would come out of the store, and she'd get after 'em,
370B:  #1 oh, #
Interviewer:  #2 With a knife? #
370B:  yeah, with that big knife, and she chased some of 'em all the down to the alley. And I was so afraid that she was gonna get killed, and the niggers would come, I said, mister {D:Reinel}, said, you've got to go after your daughter, she's got a big knife down there. {NW} So, {NW} oh, well, we didn't have any boys, now, I guess they all just had to be a boy, uh,
Interviewer:  Yeah.
370B:  take care of themselves, and, and the others, too.
Interviewer:  I know your husband's a big hunter, did you ever do any hunting yourself?
370B:  Oh, Lord, we used to close that store at night around eight, well it's on, on Saturday night, we would close a little bit earlier. And, uh, we would go out on the mountain, which was about, oh, I guess, five miles from where we lived out in the country, maybe a little farther than that. And we had, um, uh, fox dogs, and coon dogs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And we would go out, we had, um, uh, two or three couples that would go with us, and then, we {D:kept} the girls, too, you know.
Interviewer:  Oh, really?
370B:  Part of 'em, uh, some of this happened after they were married, and some of it happened before they married, when they were home, they went hunting with us. But, um, toward the last, we, uh, made us a bed on the truck.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  We carried the dogs underneath, uh, had them a place, and then we had a little opening in there, and then we had a mattress, and springs, and everything on top of that. And then, we had a tarpaulin that we'd just fold over and make a, we could close it down, make it flat, or either, we could raise it up
Interviewer:  #1 and have #
370B:  #2 Uh-huh. # the roof. And we would go, and it would rain, and snow and be freezing cold, and we'd get up in there, and we had our blankets and our pajamas, and, if it was too bad to stay outside and listen to the dogs, we'd just put on our pajamas, and light a lantern, now. It looked like it would have taken all of the oxygen out of the air, but, the plenty of it got in. And we'd light that lantern, and it would keep us just as warm, and nice, and on the side of this big truck, we had a box that would open up, and we had a little cooking stove, and a coffee pot, and a frying pan, and we'd carry everything for our breakfast. And on Sunday morning, we would get up, and cook our breakfast, and eat, and then get in, time, get in, at home,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  in time to get dressed and go to Sunday school.
Interviewer:  Oh.
370B:  And, uh, I'd go in my, my Sunday school class, and we'd carry whatever children that was too small, you know,
Interviewer:  #1 that #
370B:  #2 Uh-huh. # stayed at home, I dressed, I carried the babies on up. And, they'd say, um, well, uh, so and so and so and so, and I said, oh, yeah, we went out last night, and I said, we stayed all night and hunted all night, and then got back in, and dressed the children, and brought 'em to Sunday school. See, grandmama and them, we all lived together,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  and she would look after the children,
Interviewer:  #1 while #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # we went off, to hunt.
Interviewer:  #1 And, #
370B:  #2 Ever get anything? # oh, we got more pleasure out of it than anything else, just the, you know, out in the woods, #1 with the, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
370B:  uh, bacon and eggs, and all that kinda stuff, it just smelled so good, and when it's cold, you have a big, fire, and that, uh, pine wood burning, and all that. We just enjoyed it thoroughly.
Interviewer:  Mostly pine trees? See any other kind of trees out?
370B:  Well, they had all kind of trees, but generally the pine tree was the one you would burn,
Interviewer:  #1 you see, #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # you'd find where an old tree had been, uh, um, blown over or something and rotted, but you'd get that pine rosin. and stuff it would {D:start}, it would cook, um, burn so
Interviewer:  #1 fast. #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # We used more pine trees in, in, uh, in making the fire.
Interviewer:  #1 And #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # I never will forget, we had an old negro that went with us just to fix the fire.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, uh, grandaddy would go lots of times, and this one night particular, I remember, this old nigger was sitting there by the fire, and grandaddy would come up and he'd say, Mm, Mm, mm. And he'd look, all around, you know, and said, {D:directly} he'd say, mm, mm. {NW} He, I don't know if he thought it was a dog, or he if thought it was a varmint, or what, but he would just light out running, it was just. Grandaddy would scare him to death, and even after we got home, he would come around the store, you know, doing little odd jobs and things like that, grandaddy would get behind him, and say, mm, mm. Oh, lord, I guess at, and he was, oh, I guess he was seventy years old, just about it,
Interviewer:  #1 when he was, #
370B:  #2 At that time? # yeah, at that time. Now, Alma Elizabeth can tell you all about going hunting, and, and, falling down, and all this, that and the other, I remember, when we'd go, uh, coon hunting, we'd go in different, we wouldn't go way up on the hills, and all, you know,
Interviewer:  #1 we'd, #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # kinda in a swampy-like place. And we'd, uh, B.I.'s first wife, Grace MacDaniel. Uh, she and I, me, I worked at the store, and she did too,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  So she and I would always carry us a little lunch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, uh, I never, this night particular, we had on boots that would come up to the knee, rubber boots.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  Because it was swampy-like, you know. And mine were just a little bit too big, or too heavy, one, I don't know which, but I would, uh, catch the, the toe of my shoe on a log, and down I'd go. So, uh, the boys had already gone off ahead of us, and we were just trying to keep up.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  So, we finally got out, and, Grace and I talked it over, she said, well, I'll tell you what let's do, let's just sit down here and eat this lunch, so we won't have to carry that. {NW} So we sat out on the side of the road, and we had crackers and boiled eggs, and, I don't know what all we didn't have, but we ate, ate it up,
Interviewer:  #1 so we'd #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # just throwed the other stuff away, so we didn't have to carry it.
Interviewer:  Enough with the boots, huh.
370B:  Yeah. Oh, I just couldn't stand those boots. But you couldn't get around, if you didn't have 'em on.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  Because it was slushy and wet, you know, and you'd get cold, too.
Interviewer:  #1 But we, #
370B:  #2 You always hunt during the wintertime? # winter and summer, yeah, it wouldn't make any difference, we'd just put on, uh, sheepskin cloak, uh coat, lined cloaks, that they had back then, and, build fires, if we slowed down long enough, you know, we'd build a fire. And, uh, make camp, as they called it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  So, uh, it didn't make any difference, it, it was cold, or if it was warm, we had a good time anyway.
Interviewer:  Well, that's the important thing. What other things did you do for entertainment?
370B:  Besides, uh going hunting?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
370B:  Well, we worked all the time, from daylight 'til dark, and on Sunday, we went to, um, church, and then maybe in the afternoon, we'd take the children and ride down to Montgomery, or, just around places where they could see different
Interviewer:  #1 things. #
370B:  #2 Mm-hmm. # And just outings, that's, that's about all I can remember now, we just worked. Course, we, they had the horses,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  that they rode, but, um, from Monday morning 'til Saturday night, I'm, nearly Sunday morning, if we didn't go hunting, why, we just worked in the store all the time. Now the girls, they just, went where they want to, they never did work in the store much.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  They had their, uh, different things that they did, but, uh, we always worked, grandmama and grandaddy and Tom and I. They, we butchered our own cattle, too, you know. Tom and, and B.I., and, um, we had, uh, two or three others hired, a negro and, um, George Barksdale and different ones, they'd all help, too. And, uh, we had our own slaughter pen. And, they would just, um, have it opened right on into the sewer, so we didn't have any trouble there, they killed, after closed the store at around six or more. They would go down then and butcher cattle for the next day.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And I never will forget, uh, one time during the Depression, we had been closed, for, oh, I don't know, we even went out, we had a farm, and we went out on this farm, when Alma Elizabeth was a baby, and, uh, raised tomatoes, and had a cow, and, oh, I don't know what all. Anyway, we decided we'd open the store back up, when it got just a little better.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And we had another farm, uh, in Bibb County, that had, um, corn, they had made meal, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  and they had sweet potatoes, and, uh, sorghum syrup.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, we decided that we'd go back in business, so when we first started back, we had this sorghum syrup, and the, uh- {NS}