Interviewer:  This is tape two, Nancy {B} {X} interviewing Mrs. Alma {B}.
370B:  Well, I've forgotten just exactly where I,
Interviewer:  You were talking about slaughtering the animals.
370B:  Oh, yes, they had the, uh, the slaughter house. Well, oh, I know, we were going back in business.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, uh, they went out and slaughtered these cattle, and we sold steak at ten cents a pound, and stew meat at a nickel.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And that, uh, these, uh, potatoes, and syrup, and meal was about all we had to sell, besides this steak and stew meat.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And the first day we opened, they were lined up about two blocks, they couldn't get in the house, and we had one, let's see, Tom and Mr. {D:Edgewood} and, uh, George Barksdale, and grandmama and I, we, all of us were working.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
370B:  And, we couldn't fill the orders. Uh, for the five m-, five cent steak and ten, ten cent steak and five cent stew meat.
Interviewer:  #1 And that was #
370B:  #2 Gosh I can't # all over town, you know, and everybody in, in Bessemer came over, I know, and, uh, I've forgotten just how many cows and all they did kill, but we really did start off with a bang.
Interviewer:  I guess so.
370B:  And, uh, I can remember when we sold, uh, a dozen eggs and a pound of bacon for a quarter, just lots of times.
Interviewer:  {X} again?
370B:  Yeah. Mm-hmm. {NS}
Interviewer:  Mr. Tom {B}, the husband of Mrs. Alma {X} {B}, is more familiar with the techniques used in slaughtering the animals, and he has volunteered to give us a talk on how it was done. Give us a little talk on how it was done. This is Alma Elizabeth {B} {NS}
Aux:  -other words, it was in about nineteen twelve and thirteen, and, uh, there was a fellow named {D:Jail} {B} that traded with us there, {NW} and he was a cattle man and slaughtered {D:cows}.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
Aux:  And, of course, George and myself we would, uh, finish our work, {X} delivering and all, and work all night and day, too, and just everything out. Then when we would finish, when we were through, then for about two weeks, until the next payday, and, of course, we'd do most anything we wanted to, we hunted and fished, and, and also, we went with {D:Baker}, helped cattle and got interested in that slaughter. Well then, uh, we'd buy those cattle from the farmers, and we didn't, uh, that is, didn't have beef, except on Saturdays. Didn't have any refrigeration back in those days, and we, everybody knew we'd have fresh beef on Saturdays, so we would go get a cattle, and we'd carry it to the woods, {X} just hacked and {X}. We'd carry it to the woods, you know, and we had a tree, and we generally had a certain point in each community, where we could, generally did our butchering, which was close to a stream of water, so we could get water, and then, so we'd carry that cattle out, and we, instead of knocking 'em down, like a lot of 'em did with a hammer, we all u- ways used a thirty-eight special, in other words pistol, and we'd shoot 'em down. And, uh, then we would, uh, uh, cut their throat, and then cut those two arteries in there, and bleed 'em good. And that way you bleed 'em and getting all the blood out of the meat, you see, so that, in other words, you won't get {X}. Well then, of course, after that cattle had died, well then, we would, uh, have chunks, that we'd pick up in the woods, there, and we'd turn the cattle right, up on its back, and then we would take his chunks and put 'em onto the side, so it would hold it up. So then we would start in and we'd skin the head out, and course with two of us working, skin the head out, skin the feet out, cut the hide right around the hocks, and skin them on down, and slip on down into the breast, the bone, or the brisket, you might call it, on back to the back. And then up each leg, and then we'd take that hide right off of each leg, and then down the sides, when we got it down the side, well then, we had a singletree. And we'd take the singletree, {NW} and, uh, hook it, in the back liters, in the legs, and then we would, uh, had a rope and blocks, wasn't any chains and blocks that time, it just ropes and blocks. And you had to man it up, well we wasn't large enough to man it up, so we would have to unhitch the horse, and take the horse and hitch him to the singletree, if we had another singletree, we would hitch him to the rope, on these blocks and rope, and then we would pull that cattle up to the height that we wanted it. And then of course, tight. Well then, that, uh, tree, or the bush, or whatever might be there, uh, lots of time, we made this horse hold it, 'til we could strip that hide on down. And then we'd strip that hide on down, as far as, we wanted to go, and then we would put it up high, {NW} and we got it up high enough, we'd take that entire hide off. Well then, when we took that hide off, of course, then we would cut the, uh, open that cattle up, you might call it, that is, the brisket we had sorted, or, before we ever lifted the cattle, for, because it has to be sawed. And then, of course, behind, between the hind legs, there, we would bring our cut down to there, and we had to use the saw there again, to break that bone between those hind legs, and then, we opened the cow up, well then, when we opened the cow up, then took the, the- we called it the punch, some people called it the trap, some of 'em call it the stomach, but when we took all of that out, you see, and then we got that out of the way, well then, of course, we'd come on down and we'd, then took the heart, and the lungs, and all out, the throat, the, uh, hey, you might say, the {X}, all out, and we'd take that on out. Well then, of course, we were close to a spring there, we'd roll us a stomach, or a punch, or a trap, or whatever you want to call it, out of the way, and then, one of us would open that up and dump it out. Well, we sold that. We also so-sold a heart, and the lights, and which we called lungs, was lights, and, uh, we sold the liver, and, uh, that melt in there, which is on the punch, there's, uh, lot of people would buy that. And we'd sell out four to five if we could, and then, of course, we would, um, rinse that trap off, and, as I said before, and we'd sell that, and then we'd get a bucket of water, and {D:vash} it in there and get the rest of the blood out of the cavity of the cow that we'd opened, or the cattle, then the next thing was to do, was to cut it down with a saw, and we used a regular, in those days, you didn't have any saws and {D:tubes} like you got now, and we used a regular handsaw. And, uh, we would cut that cattle down. Of course, I was getting a little bit ahead of it there, as we would {D:raise} this cattle, as we took a hide off, and took this punch and all out, we would cut that on down, so that it wouldn't be too high for us, and then, a lot of time, we had a step ladder that we'd use, and now, we'd cut that cattle down, and then, when we got that all cut down, of course, we had a sheet spread in the hack, and then, we would, uh, take a front quarter off, in other words, we'd pull it up high enough where, when it swagged down, that the other front quarter wouldn't touch the ground, or either one of use would hold it, and, so then, we'd take that front quarter off, and we'd, you had to, uh, cut, uh, we counted down two ribs on the hind quarter, two of the ribs, and that's where we did our cut. And we made that through there, and we cut that backbone in two, which there was a half a backbone at that time, and took that front quarter off, put it in the hack. then proceeded with the same {X} the other front quarter, and put it in a hack, then we left these hind quarters down, and we'd put them in there, and then we'd cover it all with a sheet. We used, white sheets is what we used in those days, and then, we would put the other parts, the liver, and the tripes, and the lights, and the, melt, {X} heart, and then we'd put them in there, and then we would take the hide, put it in a sack, and, uh, we'd get our tackle and our blocks up, put 'em in the wa- in the hack. And then we were ready to go, and we'd come on into town. And we generally did this late in the afternoon, on account of refrigeration, we didn't have it, didn't wanna keep it over, on account of flies, and so forth, so we would, do that late in the afternoon, and then we'd take that beef in and hang it {X} he said, well, I want a chunk of beef. Well, we'd cut him off a chunk of beef, sell it to him. And, uh, they were glad to get it, they'd carry it right on home, they didn't have any refrigeration, so then they began to cook it. And there they cooked it. But on {D:yearlings}, we didn't have much trouble with {D:yearlings}, we could handle them pretty good. {X} The nearest I remember this other was back in nineteen thirteen and fourteen, and then, in nineteen twenty-six. We had started buying cattle quite a bit over the country, of course, operating businesses, too. One of the {X}, when I was fifteen, George was thirteen, and, uh, then we, uh, operated these businesses in food, cattle, and whatnot, and then, in nineteen twenty-six, well, it getting to be a pretty good demand for beef, back at that time, so, that was when I put in the first refrigeration that I had, which was a large cooler. And, uh, which was, uh, six by eight was the size of it, and I remember that, for a first refrigeration we had, was a Kelvinator compressor with brine tanks in the top, they hadn't come out with the coils, at that time, and we had large brine tanks in the top of that cooler, where we were supposed to use ice, they had, it was made to use ice in, takes a ton of ice at a time, you had to fill it about twice a week, which was mighty expensive ice at that time, it would get, uh, nearest I remember, they were getting thirty-five cents a hundred for ice. And, uh, they run pretty expensive, when you {X} twice a week. So, they put that out, put on there with those brine tanks, on the top of that Kelvinator machine, and we'd have good refrigeration, then. That about, {NW} it cut our expense down to about seven dollars and a half a month to operate it, and we would put our beef in there, but then, we didn't have any display cases like we've got now, the first display cases come out was iced from behind it wasn't refrigerated. And, uh, then we, of course, uh, had a slaughter pen, well, I'm getting a little ahead of it there, the first slaughter pen that we had was on top of {D:sage} mountain. We used a {D:wall} tree up there to hang a cattle {D:here}. Then, later on, well, uh, along about, uh, twenty, twenty- five, or twenty-six had come down to Morgan, and I had a place down there, and I built a slaughter pen, now it was a vat outside, which was a big old vat about twenty by twenty {X} got lots of this hard work about the cattle, and in other words, we would lead 'em in there, and knock the cattle down, and then, uh, bleed it, and, uh, this blood then run into this trough, and on out into this vat on the other side, where we had a bunch of hogs in the hog pen out there, and these hogs, them fit on that- {X} And then, we turned the cattle up in that trough- {X} We would just {X} that cattle right up in that slaughter pen, and go pursue the process of dressing it, and then, when we took those, uh, entrails and so forth out, well, we saved the liver at that time, and the heart, and all the rest of it tripe, so- and, all went into this vat on the other side, we {D:latched}, had a trap door there, and we just opened the trap door, just shoot 'em out right on into the vat, and that's where the {D:hog, he'd be}. I think at that time, we had seventy-five hogs in that pen. And I said pen, in that pasture, which fifteen acres, and those hogs stayed fat {X} {X}
Interviewer:  {X}?
Aux:  That's right, that was in Morgan. And, uh, then, uh, we started in the, what you might say, the {X} Man, we sold meat at all the markets, and so forth, that had put in refrigeration over town, sold at different stores; we even sold some of the, uh, chains that we have today, we sold them meat. And, uh, then, {X} look after Nashville, and then we built a slaughter pen. And George, at that time, had gone up to {X} and opened up up there, and he {X} down there where I was, {X} and so forth, and was very conveniently arranged, {NW} of course, we had running water in Morgan, but I had to use a battery genera- a b-, a generator and a battery system there for electricity to run the pump, and so forth, but after we come to town, well then, of course, we had electricity there, and we built our slaughter pen up there, and we'd, at first, we did use the basement, under the {D:stove, which} concrete floor, we, uh, put in a sewer drain there, which went down to the sewer, and we butchered {NW} lots of calves, and goats, and hogs there, and then I built a slaughter pen up there, on the back of the lot, and we killed lots of cattle, where we averaged, probably averaged around thirty-five head a week. It was running over the block, here, {NW} beside what we were selling on the other side. And, uh, then, of course, out of necessity then, holding all this, uh, blood and other stuff, all, from there, from the slaughter pen, and we had a big barrel, that we'd put that in. And, uh, those barrels, {NW} we'd fill them up, and then, uh, we would load those barrels on a truck, and, uh, in fact, we had a trap door in there, that we'd just shove those barrels right out on the truck, then we'd carry 'em to the woods and dump 'em. And, uh, right out in the woods, of course, that made mighty good eating for wild {D:hogs}.
370B:  But you sold all the hides, I remember-
Aux:  Oh, {NW} the hides, uh, they would pile up, what I mean, we'd take those hides, and we'd salt them down. Had to take him, uh, just, uh, raw salt, putting it on the inside of the hide, that keeps it from, uh, uh, deteriorating, uh, from a hair turning loose from it, and from a hide's decaying, you'd, and then we'd put 'em in barrels, and that created a brine, which would hold those hides in for months and months. And we generally held those hides until we had about, we generally sold 'em when we had around forty barrels of hides, apiece, he had forty and I'd have forty, and we'd have trailer trucks coming in, pick 'em up. But anyhow, those barrels would turn out about, uh, nearest I remember, around three hundred and fifty pound of hides to the barrel, which was quite a few hides, when you figure on forty barrels of 'em, you know. And we sold 'em, we sold 'em to a {D:concern} in Memphis, sometime, we'd sell 'em to a {D:concern} in Nashville, and a time, we'd {X}. It just depended on where we got the best prices. Generally, in those days, the prices was running around four to six cents. And we did get up as high as eight cents a pound, sometimes more.
Interviewer:  The day that y'all {X} the pigs, the hogs that you killed, you know, {X} how many did you average?
Aux:  What, the hogs? Well, it depended on the man, now, you take on the Fourth of July, {X} unlimited number, a number, that one Fourth of July we had the cooler for, and I had him to bring 'em from a farm I had over in Shelby County, which I was running on a free-range of cattle and, uh, goats, and so forth, and I had him bring seventy-five head of goats in, and, uh, then I told him, when they went after those goats, to be sure to bring up big ol' billy, been, ran up, knocking the cows down one day. In other words, cows rub a head against a leg, a front leg, you know, and that old goat thought you wanted to fight, and he'd up, knock her down, well, I brought those seventy-five head in, with that big old billy goat, and, uh, put 'em out a lot, but we had already, then, uh, had the cooler full of goats, and pigs, and {X}. Well, on the Fourth of July, that is, on the third of July, was when they generally started to buy that, well, of course, we bought lemons, and people used lots of lemons, at that time, well, there wasn't as many outlets, there wasn't as many stores, then, as there is now, we had that entire district, back over there. So, uh, I put him to killing those goats, and, uh, we sold out up in the store, and he was pushing those in from the back, and by four o'clock, we didn't have a piece of goat meat or pigs either, I don't remember just how many, uh, {D:salts} we had, but we were selling those goats at that time, just, at ten cents a pound. On halves, or either whole, and then we were selling the {D:shokes} at the same price, the pigs, which would run around sixty, seventy, eighty pounds apiece, we were selling them for ten cents a pound {D:ribs}. And, uh, so, by four o'clock, we were out of goat meat, and pig meat too, and the lemons had sold out, and all the, uh, barbecue salts, we just sold entirely out of everything we'd get hold of on Fourth of July, that way. Well, there was a fellow coming in, say he want some goat meat, and I told him, I said, now, we've sold out of goat meat, he said, {X} says, I wanna see 'em, I say, well alright, let's go look at it, {X} all up to {D:Phil}, who'd butchered {X} {X} {D:probably} just a few months, because he was an expert, I'd trained him from time he was a kid, and he had that goat dressed and ready to go, and brought it on up there, and, it seems to me, that that goat weighed around seventy-five pounds, dressed, nearest I remember, and now, a pretty good {D:size goat}. And, uh, so, uh, {X} I just had to ask him about that goat, and well I put it off about two weeks, and finally, I just waited a long {X} ask him, I said, {X} {X} you are, oh, we had a big time, I said, well, do you have plenty to eat, he said, yeah, I said, well, what about the goat? He said, that was the finest meat you ever eat, and I guess he was all full of moonshine, {X} {X} We went along with {X} until {X} {X} And, uh, first- {X} {X} and when that ration started, {X} {X} They stopped everybody from selling meat in that district, except George and myself. And, uh, I didn't think it was fair, at the time, to stop 'em from selling meat. But anyhow, I, I, I went up to the office up there, and I ask him, I said, I understand you put regulations on everybody except us, and, I wanna know the reason why. And he said, well, says, uh, the people have got to have meat to eat, and says, uh, you all can keep 'em satisfied down there on it until we can get these regulations straightened out. And I said, well, now, uh, how do you want us to operate, and he said, well, just like you been doing, so we did. Then finally, when they got the regulations straightened out, there was one that pinched down on us, and, uh, they, uh, that was just as they was getting 'em straightened out. And they pinched down on us, and when they did, we shut our coolers down, and stopped butchering altogether, and varnished our coolers inside, and just quit selling meat. Then they come down there and wanna know why we quit, and we told 'em, on account of regulations, in other words, we, uh, were keeping up with it pretty close, and we didn't see how we gonna be able to operate under the regulations that they had been. So they, then, uh, told us to, uh, continue, then, as we had been. I said, well, you'll have to write us a letter to that effect, because we don't do anything on what you might say, we have to have it in black and white, and when you write us that letter, giving us, uh, the privilege to go ahead, then probably we'll consider it. And so, they said, well, they would, but they didn't. And then they call upon me, come into the office, and George and myself went in there. So when we got there, well then, they told us they wanted us to go back to operating like we'd been operating, so we went out and got {D:B.C. Apperson} and, uh, oh, in other words, I got a couple of fellows, {D:B.C. Apperson and Lane} Fitzpatrick, I believe it was, to go in there with us, and I told, told- {NW} told 'em it's, uh, I should be able to recall that attorney's name, but I can't right now, {X} was one of 'em that was in there and, uh, and now, I-I told 'em, I said, uh, well, what I want you to do, now, is make a statement to me like you did a few minutes ago, He said, well, you got you some witnesses, I said, I certainly have, I said, you wouldn't write me a letter to that effect, and, I said, I'm not taking your word for it. That was a little ol' attorney named {D:Gilmas} was his name, and I said, uh, I want a letter to that effect. And, uh, I-I want these witnesses to hear what you've got to say, because if we have to go into court, I want some witnesses to have, to prove what you have told me. So he did, he made his, uh, I saw that it didn't make him feel too good, but he made his statement, well then, of course, we started back into the meat business. We started our {NW} slaughtering back, and then started our coolers up, got them ready, and started in the meat, and kept the meat going. But they made it so rough on us that, uh, what I mean by that is, through grading. For instance, if you take a cattle at just fifty-five percent is pretty good cattle, what I mean, it's what I would call a choice. And, uh, uh, but, uh, they'd come in and they would, uh, grade that, uh, {NW} uh, commercial, or either, they'd grade it a cutter, which is, a cutter is, uh, what we used to call a canner, or a boner. And they'd, they'd put the grades on there, and then, we had to then, uh, put the price on 'em according to the grades that they'd put on this meat. Which, uh, was nearly impossible to sell meat according to the grades, they could {D:handle you} in that way, and one if one would question of whether we would get the price, one would question whether we were getting too much, because, uh, steak at that time was selling around thirty-five, forty cents a pound, which, uh, wasn't too much, and the people were satisfied, but they'd come in there and put the grades on there, well, they'd cut us down on our prices so that we could not operate. So that was then when we had another flare up there, and we, of course, they had let other people, the other markets begin to handle a little meat, was left a few of the {X} a little meat. But that was when another flare up come, and we we shut down our coolers again, and we had quite a controversy during that time, in other words, uh, one thing after the other, and, uh, {NW} then another thing was, they got us there, {NW} they talking about gas shortage and so forth, and on, uh rationing gas for us, they'd ration us just enough gas to operate on three hours, every Monday morning. And, uh, gasoline, {NW} they were talking about gasoline, fifty cents a gallon, I paid fifty cents back then, in other words, I had to, I had to buy the gasoline, and I had to, on top of that, I had to file the rationing stamps. And I bought the rationing stamps, and I paid twenty-five cents a gallon for rationing stamps, twenty-five cents a gallon for gasoline, so my gasoline back then was going up to fifty cents a gallon. And those things went on, we had quite a bit of trouble there with that, and at times, well, beef, {NW} there'd be a big demand on the market, and we worked it both ways, we worked at selling on foot, and also slaughtering. And whichever way there was the most money, now, I remember, uh, at one time, that, uh, beef got a pretty good price, on foot, bringing eight, eight and a half cents a pound, on foot. And, uh, we would, uh, haul 'em in and, uh, sell 'em, uh, on the market. It took time. All night and day, I, uh, in other words, there wasn't any cattle by us to amount to anything over the district, there was no radios to keep 'em posted on the prices, as they had these cattle in the country, and they had free-range. And, {NW} you know, that's another thing, talking about that free-range, uh, we'll get into that in just a minute, but anyhow, they had free-range, and had all these cattle, back in there on that grass, well, they would, uh, didn't have any place they could sell 'em, oh, they could sell one sometime, but very seldom. And I remember I went into Marvel, and there never been a cattle buy, and that that was {D:coal mine camp}, and, uh, when I drove in there, well, with that cattle truck, in fact, we were the first to ever haul cattle, that is, transporting cattle on trucks, we generally, before that, we used to {D:drove 'em} in other words, ride through the country, and I got ahead of it a little bit there, but anyhow, the way we'd do that, we would, uh, get on our horses, and we would ride to a certain point. And as we'd go along, we'd tell these people that we'd be back through there on a certain day, and they have their cattle up, if they ever wanted to sell. Then, we'd drive to the end of the drive, where we were gonna start. And then, we'd start back, well, we'd buy cattle at the first one, and then I'd ride on in front, on my horse, and contact the next, uh, farmer, and buy his cattle, and have him ready to turn in the herd, and the boys would bring 'em on behind. And so on, until we got back into town, in other words, we'd go out, and then we'd come back and cover our territory, after, and we'd buy those cattle and bring 'em on in. And then we'd have to drove them into market, but anyhow, uh, later on, we got to hauling in trucks, and I believe {D:it though}, when we started hauling in trucks, it was nineteen twenty-six, was the first cattle that was hauled on, in trucks. And this time that I'm talking about driving into Marvel, was nineteen twenty-eight. That, uh, I drove into Marvel there, and that {X} country was full of cattle, and they had no place to sell 'em. And it, uh, wasn't long, buying a truckload, and then, before I could get out of there, I bought two more truckloads, and had 'em to have 'em up, and then I started in hauling cattle out of Marvel. I hauled cattle out of Marvel, night and day, then, for, I know it was the month of October, of nineteen twenty-eight. that I hauled cattle night and day, just didn't stop, just kept hauling. And I was carrying 'em in, and putting 'em on the market, because I was getting so many of 'em, I couldn't, wasn't any way to handle 'em, {X} my part, and I had to neglect that, then, and, handle this situation.
370B:  I can vaguely remember, you and grandaddy, how you had the big, wooden canes, that-
Aux:  Yeah, in other words, uh, those ca-, those sticks was walking sticks, those hickory walking sticks, and they was big enough to knock a cow down with,
370B:  That you used,
Aux:  Of course, uh, I was pretty good with a rope, and, uh, was raised, you might say, with one, and I could rope 'em any way they was going, they'd make 'em do it where they were running, or which away, but anyhow, we were what you might call, back in those days, and what they have in these fiction books now that you read, we were cowboys. And we'd get up in the mornings, well, we would start to dress, well, when we would put on our pants and buckle our, uh, belt buckle, well, we reached and got our, gun and put it in a scabbard, and we'd, what with it, we never had a gun out of hand's length at any time, as I said back there, that, uh, things wasn't, uh, exactly the same as they are today. And, uh, people were a little bit, uh, easier to, fly off the handle, and when he flew off the handle, he didn't know anything to do but just to shoot, or either, hit, and so you had to be ready. And the man that got by, in those days, was the man just a little bit faster than the other, the little slow ones all went out there, in the slow drive, out to the cemetery, but, uh, if you was just, if you was good enough, you stayed here. And, uh, we, uh, of course, in buying those cattle, as I said, and hauling 'em in, And the earliest I remember, that all those cattle that I bought in Marvel and was hauling them, I was selling them, at that time, at six cents a pound, on foot. And, uh, finally, they did go up to eight, on good cattle, now, of course, canners, what we'd call canners today, like you'd call, you'd, uh, utilities, uh, that's the, this commercial yeah, utility, I believe it- one name they had for canners. You couldn't sell one of them, in those days, because there wasn't anybody that could use that, you know, they didn't make so much bologna and wieners, and stuff like that, and sausage, in those days, and they'd had to be pretty good beef, cause they had to cut it up to sell it, and you saw what you got, but if it is stale, they could throw a little soybean meal in it, at least it was back then, They just threw, uh, potato meal in it, and they made up s-, uh, sausage, they made up wieners, and they made up bologna, and so forth, and then people will eat it, as they do today. But anyhow, back then they didn't have it, and, uh, those canners just stayed out there, and they either got fat or died in the woods, one or the other, because people just didn't buy 'em. Now we only bought for choice beef, back at that time.
370B:  In {D:dressing} the, the hogs out where you boiled the water, and,
Aux:  Well, all those hogs, we'd buy those hogs and bring 'em in, lots of time, you bought a load of cattle and loaded hogs under 'em, you know, and bring 'em in, but the hogs, of course, we would, uh, we never did use a hammer, as a lot of people did, in knocking cattle down, we always used a thirty-eight special, because it was always handy, we had it right there, and then shooting the hogs, we'd, we used our thirty-eight special on them, and, uh, cattle the same way, but anyhow, we-
370B:  You'd have to stick your hog-
Aux:  Well, we'd shoot that hog and knock him down. Well, the old-timey way of cutting a hog's throat was straight across, but that is the wrong way to cut a, a hog's throat, or a cattle. In other words, we made, we finally got to this point, when we got a little farther along, and that, we would slit, uh, instead of cutting, we'd slit down, and then reach in there and cut those arteries on each side, so that they'd bleed freely, sometimes those arteries would plug on the end, and we'd have to reach in there and get it again and cut it, but you'd you would {X} a cattle, to see that it bled good. And we'd, uh, course had, on these hogs, we also had these pots with water heating. And boiling, and ready for {D:scaling}, and when I said boiling, that water's got to be right, there's such a thing as having it too hot, and there's such a thing as having it too cold. Well, on a ordinary-sized hog, we used a barrel, generally, and had it {D:slim}, and we'd pour hot water in there, and we'd pick that hog up, put him down in there, and turn him over and over, and then we'd pull him out and {D:turn and change end with him}, put the other down there, and then out on a board, generally, of course, afterward, we had concrete floors, but out on a board in olden times, old {D:ore} was one of the best things I ever saw, and you'd have to pull him right on out, and take the hair off of it. Then, when you took the hair off of him, and of course, you hung him, and then you slit him down, and then you, slit him down, I mean open him up, cut him down, and take the entrails and all out, and then you took a bucket of water, and throwed it in there, and rinsed that hog out good, and then let him hang, and generally, it was always best to do this butchering, if you could have it in, kinda cool weather. In other words, the meat does better, and it, it gets harder, and firmer, and so forth, and it's easier to cut. It's awful hard to cut, uh, hot meat, in other words, you, it's got to be chilled a certain extent, that's one thing, where refrigeration come in so nice, was chilling this meat, so that you could cut it. And, uh, these hogs were a little bit, uh, unhandy to handle, and what I mean by it, more so work than there was in the cattle. But, uh, we then, of course, cut that hog up. Generally, we just, uh, sold the whole hog, in the hack, or whatever we had, or the, whatever we was traveling in, or, and, and hanging 'em in the cooler. We, uh, hung the whole hog in the cooler, lunchtime, {D:there} after we got coolers, and let him chill out good, before we opened him up, but most meat in those days, now, you hear about meat being aged, now, you, aged, that's about all you hear. But back in those days, when you {D:were buying} how much we were gonna sell, and, uh, we killed accordingly, and, uh, that meat moved, it didn't have time to age. Generally, they, uh, the meat that you killed, you generally moved that meat in from twenty-four to thirty-six hours.
Interviewer:  {X} in the early thirties, you was having steak, too?
Aux:  Well, uh, now, uh,
Interviewer:  {X}
Aux:  I was kinda getting ahead of it there, I know that I was talking of, uh, bringing those cattle from Marvel, {NW} we brought those cattle, I bought those down in there and hauled 'em out, and that was nineteen twenty-eight. And things were mighty good, cattle was bringing eight, eight cents a pound. Of course, in, in the cattle business, that a way, you accumulate, and get on hand, generally, uh, a bunch of yearlings, and so forth, that you don't run through, and, uh, lots of times, you leave 'em in the country, and, uh, then you can pick 'em up, later on, in other words, I didn't, I, I lost very few that way, I remember one time, I was buying a load of cattle, and the fellow wouldn't sell me the load unless I'd buy a calf, and I bought the calf from him, and I ask him, I said, how much you gonna want for that calf, he said, I got to have two dollars for him, I said, well I don't want the calf, he said, well I won't sell you the other cattle, I said, well I'll just buy the whole thing, uh. And bought the calf, and we put him in the truck, well we went on up the road, stopped up there to pick up a cow that I'd bought, and the little ol' calf got out. And I told, uh, fellows with me, and one who was helping me, I said, just let that calf go, {D:it was five dollars}, I didn't wanna feed that calf, I said, just let it go. And so, we loaded this cow and come on in, well then, the following year, which was long in the fall, oh, the latter part of the fall, he come in, he picked up cattle around for me quite a bit then, and he come in, and he says, you know that's a nice heifer, out yonder now, that- I said, whatever you talking about, he said, the one that that calf got out over at that place, over there, near Banford, said, you remember when we was loading that cow over there and that calf got away, and I said, yeah I do. He said, well that heifer, says, she is really grown, says, she'd right there, and that, says, she still comes up to that house, well, there was plenty of grass, and there was open range, and nobody was bothered. And, so then, uh, we went over there, well, we was passing there one day, and I told her, uh that is, told him, I said, where'd you say that heifer was, he said, out here. Well, we went out there, and the cattle had come up, and that heifer was really, pretty, weighed about, between four-fifty to five hundred pounds, and it, been right there with that fellow's cattle, he hadn't fed it a thing, it'd just run on the open range, and that's getting back to the open range, now, something I was gonna tell you about the open range, uh, you know, back in days gone by, these, uh, people living back in the country, and in the mountains, and all, well, they had goats, and they had sheep, and they had hogs, and they had cattle. And, they, {D:well} I thought, farmed, and they were living. Well, the thing went along, and you know, uh, they passed, uh, the stock law. And after they'd passed the stock law, the stock law, as we call it, was, uh, you had to keep your cattle up, keep 'em in a fence, you couldn't let 'em run on open range. And, uh, so, they passed that stock law, and, uh, the people had to do away with the cattle, they had to do away with the hogs, and do away with the sheep, and the goats, and so forth, in the country. First thing you knew, they were up against it, they didn't have anything to eat, didn't have anything to wear, either, well, I often wondered, well, {X} was, what brought it about first, was they all started in, then, was when they started in to making {D:liquor}, making whiskey, and, as we call moonshine. {NW} And they started selling moonshine. Well, of course, that wrecked the whole situation, the people, and all the family life, and so forth, hav-, making that liquor and having it around there all the time, and that whiskey, and having the crowds around there, that would come and get it, and so forth. Still, lots of 'em held their principles up, quite a bit. But it was always a question to me, why, that that younger generation coming along, {NW} couldn't make a living like the older generation did, why they couldn't take care of their families. So, I was, uh, making a delivery one day, carrying a fellow named Oscar Tyler home, and we were talking. Oscar live back in the mountains there, and Oscar was a distiller at that time, and he had, two kids and his wife, and they were having a terrible time getting along. Well, when we got to the top of the hill, {NW} top of the mountain there, started off down in the valley, Oscar says, uh, you know, Mr. Randall, says, do you know that, uh, Pa raised twenty-six of us down in this valley, here, and he says, you know, we had plenty to eat, {NW} we had plenty clothes, and says, we never did want for anything. He says, you know, I got a wife and two children, and said, I can't make 'em a living. And says, I'm, I-I'll tell you, it's just hard for me to get by. And, uh, he says, you know, but when, uh, when Ma needed any shoes for us, or any clothing, or whatever it might be, says, she'd tell Pa, said, you gonna have to go in tomorrow and get so many yards of cloth, and so many pair of shoes, and so many pair of stockings, and, you gonna have to have some coffee, and you gonna have to have some sugar, you see, they raised everything else there, says, then that afternoon, late, just before dark, said Pa would have us to get out there, and get up two or three kid goats, and get up a {X} or two, a pig or two, and said, get a yearling up, and said, we'd get 'em out there, and say, you know, we'd kill 'em, and said, we'd dress 'em, and said, let 'em hang 'til next morning, at daylight, and said, then, we'd get out there, and cut 'em down, and, uh, he had his hack out, and we'd cut it up, cut that meat up, had a big ol' block there, and we'd cut it up, and put it in there on some sheets in there, and says, then, you know, Pa would have breakfast by that time, and we ate the meal up, and he'd be gone on to town. He'd go on to town, and said, when he come back, said, he had everything she told him to get, and said, generally, a little money, And I said, well, Oscar, now you to explain-