Interviewer: {NS} While we were changing the tape there you said that he didn't use a vest right? And uh what 494: Well now when he dressed up he used the vest because I can remember I can just see today his pocket watch from one vest pocket and the and the chain and then the fob of his oh chain over in his other vest pocket. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And how about uh how did he hold up his trousers? 494: With suspenders. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Ever hear #1 galluses? # 494: #2 Galluses? # {NW} Galluses that's what Papa called it galluses. Interviewer: Right. Uh-huh. 494: {D: Wasn't suspensers.} Interviewer: And uh how you you use the word overalls um when you were talking about the washing uh did you use a word jeans? 494: #1 No no mm-mm # Interviewer: #2 cause if so uh # Is that a it must be #1 a recent uh # 494: #2 That's a new # a to- uh well what's the what {X} to being We didn't know anything about jeans back in those days. Interviewer: Everything was overalls. 494: Overalls. Interviewer: Um 494: Or britches. {NS} Interviewer: Is that right uh? 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: That was my experience and overalls would be uh either pants without a bib or with a bib. 494: #1 Well now most of the time we think # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: of overalls we think of 'em coming with a bib with these straps coming over and hooking here. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How about just blue denim trousers? What was your 494: Well they were just britches. Interviewer: Britches. Uh-huh. 494: Weren't they {X} Aux: Yeah. Interviewer: And if somebody {NW} if a boy had his britches uh pockets full of things he had found stones and all sorts of things you'd say well look at his pockets what? 494: Bulging. Interviewer: Bulging. #1 Uh-huh. # 494: #2 mm-hmm # Interviewer: And uh how about um if you boil a new shirt {NW} hot water sometimes uh got trouble getting {X} it it what? 494: shrunk. Interviewer: Shrunk? 494: Mm-hmm. Aux: Drew up. 494: #1 Drew up. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: #1 Drew up that was the # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Alright. Drew up is 494: Drew up. {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Let's um {NS} I hope you enjoy this one {X} 494: #1 Oh I'm just I'm having fun # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: #1 And bout the washing # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: #1 you talking about # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: the lye soap we'd take a knife and go out there and cut the bar of lye soap up into the water boiling water in the kettle and it would melt up. And then on the rub board we had you know there's a little place up here on the rub board I don't know where you know or not but you'd lay your bar soap and you'd rub some of that soap on this rub part of it and then scrub your clothes with that. And maybe if there's a real dirty spot you'd take the bar of soap rub it on that real dirty spot. Interviewer: Right. 494: But to boil it in the kettle we cut it up with a knife. Interviewer: Oh I see. And if I understand you you boiled it then you rubbed it then you boiled it. 494: That's right. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: Now let's see we rubbed it then boiled it Aux: show you boiled lye soap Interviewer: Oh yeah. {NW} Yes sir. Aux: While to make that. 494: I made it for the Obion #1 County fair last year. # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Uh-huh. 494: #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 {X} # {X} 494: #1 We had what we called the old country store and # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Fine smell. 494: And I didn't have enough made I sold it for a quarter a bar #1 and I # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: it went like hot cakes. Interviewer: Is that right? Aux: She made that out in the wash kettle. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 494: {NW} He helped me make it. {C: laughing} Interviewer: very uh It's got a fresh uh 494: Uh-huh. Interviewer: In fact it smells like ivory doesn't it I suppose Ivory deliberately {NW} 494: Probably. Interviewer: made their uh soap {X} Aux: You can't buy {X} now though. Interviewer: Um And there's no way to make it. 494: And there's no wood Interviewer: #1 ashes like we used to have in our stove. # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: I I think our merchant out here at Elbridge got in a case the other day so it it is kind a hard to get but you can get it occasionally. Interviewer: Would uh would coal ash uh work? 494: No I don't think so huh-uh. Had to be wood ash. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Well uh I'd like to switch over to {NW} some questions about foods. Um 494: Okay. Interviewer: What um did you have a word for foods that um 494: Vittles. Interviewer: All of them #1 together? # 494: #2 Mm-hmm # vittles.{C: laughing} Put the vittles on the table. Interviewer: And uh if you ate between meals what was that uh? 494: {NW} That just eating between meals. Interviewer: Uh-huh Would you call it a bite or uh 494: A a bite you wouldn't call it a snack because we didn't I don't think we used the term snack until later. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {NS} And uh if you cooked a lot and then served it a second time you re- #1 heat it # 494: #2 Warmed over. # Interviewer: Warmed overs? And what did you have on the table for seasoning um 494: Oh you mean like salt or? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: We had salt and pepper and the sugar bowl. Interviewer: Did you have anything for greens? 494: Uh yes we had uh uh pepper sauce. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And how about molasses? 494: We had molasses pitchers always on our table and the butter dish. Aux: {X} Interviewer: Uh-huh. Did um did you use you said molasses pitcher did you use any other word? {NS} there 494: Mm Interviewer: Molasses stand? {NS} 494: Yes you know I believe we did. No it was a preserve stand. Molasses pitcher preserve stand. Interviewer: Preserve stand. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And what was that? {X} 494: Well that's what we had the pear preserves in or peach preserves or Interviewer: And the stand in other words it'd be just a Aux: Stood up on a little 494: Stood up on a little #1 pedestal like and uh # Aux: #2 # 494: had a top on it. And my mother you know she'd can the pear preserves and instead of setting the can on the table or the jar you might #1 say # Interviewer: #2 Oh # 494: she would empty it out in this preserve stand. Interviewer: I see. I see. I heard that used with molasses I'm not quite sure. And you would dip out the preserves? 494: #1 Uh-huh dip out the preserves uh-huh. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # With molasses. And uh {NW} You ever remember anything like this uh when something is cooking and and people would come in uh and they'd say well I just and they'd sniff #1 and they'd say # 494: #2 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: wow just what? 494: Smells good. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Would they ever say smell that? 494: Smell that? Uh-huh. Interviewer: Would they say smell it or smell of it? 494: Uh But smell that I believe yeah I don't believe it'd be smell of that. Interviewer: I've heard both. 494: Uh-huh. {NS} Interviewer: Curious. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Some places I I guess they say consistently yeah just smell that {NS} 494: Yes since you mentioned it I believe it is smell of that. Uh-huh. {NS} Interviewer: And {NW} how about um eggs uh did you how did you use 'em how did you 494: We Interviewer: prepare 'em? 494: We uh well you wouldn't say raised your own eggs we had our own eggs had our own hens. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: I guess produced our own eggs would be the word. And well we cooked 'em just about every way you could cook 'em. We had fried eggs and scrambled eggs and boiled eggs and Interviewer: How would you boil 'em? 494: stuffed eggs. {NW} Put 'em in a {X} Interviewer: Boil 'em how long and until 494: Well now you really boiled eggs back then. You know nowadays I don't think you're supposed to boil 'em you're really supposed to kindly {NW} you're not supposed to boil at all. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: oh But I think they really boiled back then. Aux: Put 'em in boiling water and let 'em boil about 494: Uh-huh. Aux: eight or ten minutes if you wanted 'em hard boiled. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. So did they Aux: not too hard 494: Now my dad would always like an egg uh soft boiled egg. He didn't want it to stay in there over two or three minutes. And he liked to then crack it open and and take a spoon and dig out the inside into a little dish and put some butter and salt and pepper. He liked that. Interviewer: What would you call the insides the two parts? 494: {NW} Well I don't know. Interviewer: Would you say uh yellow or? 494: Yeah yellow. Interviewer: Yolk? 494: #1 No it was # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: #1 yellow. # Interviewer: #2 yolk? # 494: The yellow of an egg. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Yellow and the white? 494: Mm-hmm the yellow and the white. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh poached eggs uh did you ever 494: Yes. Interviewer: Did you ever hear them called dropped eggs? 494: No. Just poached eggs. Interviewer: And um you mentioned hominy you made your own. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: {NW} And how about uh tell me something about uh the way you used milk but you you'd milk and then from the milk pail where would it go? 494: Oh it would go my mother had a strainer. No I believe she kept a cloth a clean cloth that she used to strain her milk through. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: She always said a strainer you couldn't keep a strainer clean enough and she was very particular about the milk. And these this was one of the things she would really boil is that milk straining cloth. It was pure white and um you'd strain it through that. And then we drank lots of milk th- those days because we didn't have any- such a thing as iced tea. Of course we children weren't allowed to drink coffee. And uh we dranked it whole milk and we'd eat clabber a lot. #1 Did you ever hear that? # Interviewer: #2 {X} # I was wondering about that. Did you make anything of the clabber uh? 494: Oh We learned in later years to make cottage cheese but I don't think my mother ever learned to make cottage cheese out of that. But we would we really liked that clabber. And we'd sprinkle sugar on it and eat it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Supposed to be very good for you. 494: Uh-huh That's about the same thing as yogurt Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: nowadays. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How about butter? Did you uh 494: Oh yes we had our own butter. Churned our own butter. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And what did you call it when the butter would get too old and? 494: Well it was it was rancid. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. You ever #1 hear # 494: #2 That's # when she- she'd use that and make it a {X} soap. #1 Instead of a # Interviewer: #2 Oh # I see. 494: Uh-huh she'd use old butter lot a times making soap. Interviewer: Um Would you mention uh {NS} cornmeal uh what kind of things did you make out of cornmeal? 494: Mush. Interviewer: Mush? 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Ah 494: It's real good. {NW} Interviewer: Uh-huh but uh did you ever fry it? 494: Uh-uh. {NW} Aux: {X} 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Oh well you call mush 494: Oh no no he was talking about uh Aux: frying cornbread 494: he's talking about frying the {D: makeup of} Aux: butter 494: cor- uh meal with hot water and salt. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And ma- it's called uh hoecake but {NW} but fried mush yes my mother we'd have uh mush for supper one night and she would pour some of it out into a a bowl and let it sit overnight. And then the next morning it would slice out real nice and she would dip that in egg and fry it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: Real good. Interviewer: And the hoecake i- that is uh fried also? 494: Uh-huh. Interviewer: Do you remember anything else um that you would make out of cornmeal? Ever hear of corn dodgers? 494: Well that's just about the same thing as hoecake. Corn dodgers and hoecake different people called 'em different thing corn pone. Interviewer: Corn dumplings? 494: Corn dumplings. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Hush puppies? 494: Hush puppies. Interviewer: Uh what do what do you put onions in or or didn't you? Uh I've heard that you {NS} that you make something it isn't clear to me what but I think they fry it the cornmeal and and they slice a little bit of green onion in. 494: Well now you do that for hush puppies #1 I mean you you you # Interviewer: #2 Is that hush puppy um # 494: put some gr- you put onion in hush puppies. Interviewer: If you didn't in the corn dodgers 494: Well I guess you could if you wanted to. Interviewer: Uh in other words do you think a corn dodger is the same thing as a hush #1 puppy? # 494: #2 Well I # think it is. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 494: Now now corn dodgers is not the same thing as a hush puppy. A corn dodger to me is the same thing as a oh what'd we call hoecake. Interviewer: Hoecake. 494: Hoecake. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Uh anything else that you remember how to cornmeal? 494: Well not right off. Course we had our regular cornbread. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: That was was a batter and baked #1 and we ate a lot of that with sweet milk. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # bake it in pones or 494: In a a skillet or a now this was egg cornbread we put an egg in. Interviewer: Mm 494: Now the corn pone and corn dodger you don't put an egg in. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: But now cornbread oh you do you make it up in a batter and put an egg in it. Interviewer: I see. 494: And pour it out into a hot skillet or a hot pan some people have bread pans or square or oblong Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: and you put it in the oven and bake it. And now some corn pones you put in the oven and bake and some now the kind his mother used to make she put it on top of a stove. It was kind of a thick uh batter. And uh it would cook she'd let it brown on one side and then she'd put a plate on top of that and she'd flop it over and then slip it back in let it brown on that side. Slip it off the plate back into the skillet and brown on that side. Interviewer: I see. 494: And that was real good. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How about um uh hoecakes and um {NW} things made out of um {NS} 494: Flour? Interviewer: flour. 494: We call those uh flapjacks. Interviewer: Those would be flapjacks. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: And uh uh the two would not be the same. 494: No huh-uh. Cause flapjacks and uh well they're called pancakes now I think. Aux: isn't what you call a corn flitters do you? 494: Yeah corn fritters. That's right. Interviewer: Now that's uh a very interesting thing just happened I think you said something different from what she said. 494: Fritters and flitters. {NW} Well I think they were called both things I don't know why but Interviewer: I- I've heard both uh 494: I have too. Interviewer: Flitters and fritters 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: uh-huh. And in fact uh this is the first time I've heard th- those terms this far north. 494: Well Interviewer: Uh Flitters I hear more often in south Georgia. Aux: Is that right? Interviewer: And uh so y- you did you Did you happen to have relatives who may have been from there or 494: Well no I didn't. Interviewer: So you always used the term 494: #1 We've used that term uh-huh. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 494: Now that's an egg batter too that that's still different from the dodgers and the Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {X} with flour. 494: Uh it's made with corn meal though instead of flour. You call it the corn flitter or fritter whichever one you want to. Interviewer: Oh I see. 494: #1 And you drop it # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: #1 just like you would a pancake. # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: You know how to pa- you drop a pancake What you do drop this cornmeal batter in a little Interviewer: so that 494: about four in a skillet. Interviewer: So your corn fritter or flitter is not the same as a hoecake. {NW} 494: No huh-uh. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Well that's interesting I uh never got that straight uh um how about donuts did you ever make them or did you call them by anything? 494: Well yes we made 'em but but uh I don't think we made 'em too often. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Would you call 'em donuts or did your 494: I believe we called 'em donuts. Interviewer: How about uh fried cakes? 494: No I don't believe we called 'em fried cakes these called donuts. Interviewer: And uh in some some German uh uh families with German #1 ancestry # 494: #2 mm-hmm # Interviewer: uh I think some times they use 494: Fried cake? Interviewer: fried cakes or uh um or all kinds of things #1 um # 494: #2 uh-huh # I tell you what my mother did do we didn't have uh little packages of yeast that you could go to the store and buy. I don't know when and where she got her starter but she always had a starter of yeast dough. And it would get dried up sometime but you could put it in water and it would come back. Interviewer: Mm. 494: And that's what she made her yeast bread out of. Interviewer: Continue growing it uh 494: Continue growing it. Interviewer: I see. You really were independent those days. {NW} 494: You had to be you didn't have any money.{C: laughing} {NW} Interviewer: Must have been a factor of {D: good feeling} And how about uh other things for dessert that you remember? Anything made out of apples or peaches or 494: #1 Oh yeah # Interviewer: #2 deep dish? # 494: we had uh fried peach pies and fried apple pies and uh apple dumplings and uh Interviewer: Did you Aux: We had dried apples. 494: Yep dried apples. Aux: good you can dry them yourself put it 'em up on a window let 'em dry. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Aux: Yep dried apples. Interviewer: Uh how about a cobbler? 494: Mm-hmm we had plenty of cobblers. Interviewer: Is that now a fried apple pie is different. 494: Uh yes cause we'd use it sometimes it would be out of the dried apples that were cooked and sometimes it would be out of canned apples. Um You just put some of the apple mixture on the piece of dough and fold it over and fry it. Interviewer: Mm. That um 494: And then we had uh oh Interviewer: Could I ask you some of the- 494: Okay. Interviewer: Excuse me #1 but I # 494: #2 Uh-huh go ahead. # Interviewer: shouldn't have interrupted you there. 494: Go ahead. Interviewer: Uh {NW} Wondering if your fried apple pie might be an apple dowdy? Pandowdy? 494: Well now we didn't call it that. Interviewer: Uh apple slump? 494: Mm-mm. Interviewer: Deep apple pie? 494: Mm-mm. Interviewer: Pot pie? 494: Mm-mm. Interviewer: Okay apple grunt? 494: No. Interviewer: All kinds of things uh. 494: It's just apple pie. Or apple cobbler. Interviewer: I see I am sorry I shoulda 494: #1 That's alright. # Interviewer: #2 through there. # 494: I started to tell you we had what my mother used to she'd make uh she called it a poor man's pie that didn't take any eggs. It was just milk and sugar and butter and flour. She'd mix that up together and put it in a crust and bake it. Aux: They were really good. 494: Yeah they's good. Interviewer: That be a hard flat uh dough? 494: Th- no the crust you'd have your pie crust but it would be kind of a creamy filling. Interviewer: Mm. 494: It uh it just didn't have any eggs in it. Interviewer: I see. 494: She'd put a little nutmeg in it. Aux: It turned out where you just cut it out. 494: It would slice out like egg custard but it wouldn't be yellow like an egg custard it'd be a white pie. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. I see that's um That's a new one. Poor man's #1 pie. # 494: #2 Poor man's # pie. Interviewer: Alright. And uh what you would use um oh what kind of pudding what would you pour over it? 494: A sauce. Interviewer: Always a sauce. And {NW} how about uh freshwater fish that you have around here? You remember did you use much fish uh? 494: We didn't use much fish maybe once a year we'd go down to the big lake we called it {NW} and fry our fish. But now I think I've heard my mother talk about uh this was back in her younger days maybe in oh well I'm the youngest one in my family I think maybe she they had two of the children. And they'd go camping down on the lake. And uh they'd fish and fry their fish. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: But as far as just having fish two to three times a week at home we didn't do it. Interviewer: Just didn't like it is that? 494: We just couldn't we just didn't it wasn't available Interviewer: Mm 494: and it was too far to go you you just had a buggy and uh mules or {D: wagon} Aux: You know didn't have those fish farms then like we do nowadays you just have to maybe go down to the creek to catch some polliwogs. 494: Yeah we we could do that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Aux: People just didn't have time {X} Interviewer: It does take time. A polliwog would be a like a 494: Small catfish. Aux: Small fish. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Uh-huh. {NW} While I'm thinking about that uh did you ever turn over rocks in the creek and find anything that you might eat? Like uh 494: I haven't. Interviewer: Crawdad sound familiar? 494: Yeah crawdad or crawfish. Interviewer: Crawfish? 494: But I never did catch any I was too scared of the things. Interviewer: I see. I see. 494: #1 Now he may have I don't know. # Aux: #2 {X} # I haven't. Interviewer: And when you go fishing what uh what would you use for bait? 494: #1 Worms. # Aux: #2 Worms mostly # 494: Bread. Aux: Bread or worms. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Did you ever use these little um Aux: {NW} Interviewer: fish or small baby fish tiny little 494: Oh well no uh-huh. Aux: Some of 'em do I just I never did fish much Interviewer: Uh What did they call 'em uh? {X} Minnies? 494: #1 Mi-minnows uh-huh minnows. # Aux: #2 Minnows minnows # Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: But we used when me and my nephew would go fishing down in the creek we'd just dig us some red worms and go Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh when do you remember seafood first coming in uh? Must have been very rare when you were 494: Oh it was #1 rare. # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: {X} It was after we married I think that {NS} and several years after we married. {NW} We just haven't had fresh seafood around these parts. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. What would you uh what do you remember seafood uh? 494: Oysters is first I remember. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Aux: About the only I'd uh that about all I would eat is oysters. Interviewer: And uh how about lobster or anything? 494: I've never eaten a lobster. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And how about these orange things? 494: Uh shrimp? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: I've eaten shrimp. Oh Fried now I've never tried to tackle one not fried I it looks too raw I don't know. {NW} But it's just been in the later years that I've had a Interviewer: Uh-huh 494: a chance to even eat shrimp. Fried shrimp. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Um so that little bone that you get out of a chicken 494: The pulley bone. Interviewer: Pulley bone? 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: And uh do you remember anything that goes uh with that #1 any # 494: #2 mm-hmm # Interviewer: superstition and what was uh? 494: You put it uh if you're not married you put it up over the door Interviewer: Was that right? 494: and the first young unmarried man that walks through that door was supposed to be your future husband. Interviewer: I didn't know it. {NW} Aux: They do it with two take 'em one on one side one on the other and pull 'em and the one that gets the shortest piece supposed to marry first. 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: The shortest. 494: Yeah the shortest. Aux: longest Interviewer: Uh-huh. Aux: one way or the other Interviewer: Now did you ever hear the two parts of the bone uh called anything particular? 494: No. Interviewer: The boy bone? 494: No #1 I never # Interviewer: #2 Af- after # it's pulled #1 apart uh # 494: #2 huh-uh. # Interviewer: Well it's either the long or the short and I can't Some people say uh one some the other. It was called a boy bone and I imagine that has to do with um getting married. 494: Probably so. {NS} Interviewer: You say you you did your own uh uh you had your own hogs uh would you describe the how you kill 'em and uh 494: {NW} Interviewer: Uh in fact I uh {NW} I mentioned this the other day to somebody and I said uh I can't remember anything about hog butchering. There's not a hog butcher he's a hog killer. 494: Hog killer that's right yes sir I remember about it. Interviewer: Alright would you describe that uh 494: Well you had to get up real early that morning before daylight and uh we had a big uh what's called a hog scalder. It's a big long vat of a thing and uh it's filled with water and there's a pit. It's placed over a pit. And my dad would build a fire in that pit and then course he he's done it too because we've killed hogs since we've been married in fact it hadn't been too many years ago since we quit killing hogs. And you build this hot fire under there and uh when the water get uh got the right temperature how did you test the water? Aux: We just sorta tell from looking at it when it was hot enough {X} 494: And sometimes they kill the hogs in different ways I've seen my dad knock 'em in the head with a sledgehammer and when it when he'd knock 'em in the head they'd keel over and then there'd be somebody right there with a sharp knife to cut their throats. Or in later years we used the twenty two rifle and shot 'em and then somebody'd cut their throats. And they'd it take several men to do that you'd put 'em over in the scalding water then. And then when they turn 'em over in that scalding water they'd turn 'em out here on this board that was laying nearby the vat and they'd go scrape it men would scraping these hairs off. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And then they'd what they called a gamble stick they'd put the slick between these two uh what do you call 'em liters? Aux: Mm-hmm. 494: here in their feet and hang 'em up head down. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And uh there'd be a man there that would uh cut 'em open then called gutting 'em. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And then the women would takeover from there the women would take this big tub of guts and they'd go stripping this fat off of the guts. Interviewer: I see. 494: And you'd cook that and get lard. Interviewer: Pull the fat from that. 494: Fat from that there'd be a good good bit of fat sticking to the entrails. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And you'd strip that down every once in a while you'd break one of those entrails you'd have a mess. {NW} Interviewer: Did you ever use the entrails for anything uh? 494: Well we didn't. A lot of people we know did. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: They'd uh They'd stuff their sausage they'd clean 'em and stuff their sausage in those entrails. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And uh didn't some people use those entrails as chitlins? Aux: Oh yeah. 494: #1 Chitlins. # Aux: #2 There's tons of # people make chitlins from 'em. 494: We never did we'd we never made chitlins Interviewer: Mm-hmm What kind of meat would you uh get from the hog and uh 494: We'd have what we call the middling meat that would be the side what's what the bacon's made out of. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: Now we'd salt that down and that would be sliced and fried as such as we fry bacon nowadays. Then we'd have the hams and we'd have the shoulders what we call then we'd have the back bone that'd be cut up and boiled. You'd have ribs. Interviewer: From the back uh 494: Uh-huh from come off the backbone. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And uh we'd have tenderloin Interviewer: Uh the tenderloin would also come 494: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 come from # {X} 494: Come from I believe after you the middling out there's a big strip there on the middling that you'd pull off and that would be the tenderloin. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. That's supposed to be the best right? 494: That's good sure is. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And then of course sausage and you get your sausage from trimming up the hams and shoulders to square 'em off or round 'em off however you want 'em and then you'd grind that up into sausage. And then the fat that came off of that you'd cut it up into small pieces put it in the wash kettle and cook it and cook it and cook it till your your cracklings got at a certain stage. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: You'd strain that lard off and uh you'd have the lard to use and the cracklings to make crackling bread that's another thing you make out of cornbread. Interviewer: Uh-huh that's right. 494: #1 Crackling bread real good. # Interviewer: #2 Uh uh-huh # How about um the the en- the organs um? 494: We'd have the liver and the heart and the the melt and a lot of people ate the lights. Interviewer: And what's the melt? 494: The melt is a little tender strip that looks kinda like the liver. It's it's it looks but it's Don't it? Aux: That's all I'd say that's all I know it just looks like it but it's you have to call 'em melts. 494: Now you'd stew that now he never did like stewed liver but now you could take chopped uh cut some of that liver up and cut that melt up and cut a piece of the heart up and put it in a pot and stew it drop you a pot of hot pepper over in there that's good. {NW} But the only way he wanted liver was fried. {NW} Interviewer: She makes it sound good doesn't she? {NW} Aux: {X} take the feet and the head and made souse. 494: That's right we made souse. Uh I think it's called head cheese in some places but it's called souse around here. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh I've never {NW} if I have I I've slipped my mind this for this word melt is uh 494: Well there's a little en- Interviewer: You 494: the little uh Interviewer: it is an organ? 494: organ in there or it's attached onto the liver or somewhere it's called the melt Aux: the liver you cut it off from the liver Interviewer: And uh the lights would be lungs? 494: Now yes and a lot of people ate those but I I just never did like those. #1 They're kind of spongy or something. # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh 494: And there's there's something called the sweet bread now where it came from I don't know but you could put it in the stew and it was real good. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Um how about um the um there were well did you have a word for all the organs that you'd cut out? Aux: We called 'em guts. Interviewer: Guts {NW} 494: Well Aux: Entrails. Interviewer: The entrails? Aux: The entrails 494: Yeah uh-huh Interviewer: But uh did you ever hear the word harslet or haslet? 494: Uh-uh. Interviewer: Neither one? 494: Mm-mm. Interviewer: And {NW} different kinds of sausage did you ever make any liver sausage? 494: No. Interviewer: The liver put in? 494: No. Interviewer: Mm. 494: We never did. Interviewer: Uh but if you know of it uh 494: I've heard of it and you can buy what you call liver cheese now. In the grocery you know sliced up but Interviewer: Uh now liver cheese is probably where what used to be called liver pudding is is that 494: Well I guess it is. Interviewer: Do you know that word? 494: #1 No # Interviewer: #2 Or did you ever # 494: #1 no I never did # Interviewer: #2 use it uh? # Alright. and uh blood sausage or 494: No. Interviewer: black 494: mm-mm Interviewer: And if meat uh didn't keep you said it's gone what? 494: Oh it's spoiled. Interviewer: Spoiled. 494: Mm-hmm. Ruined {NW} Interviewer: And {NW} how about some vegetables what vegetables did you grow in the in the garden? And in fact how did you refer to 'em? The whole collection. 494: We just called it the garden. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Did you ever 494: It wasn't a vegetable garden it was just a garden. Interviewer: Uh did you ever refer to them as garden stuff or garden truck or 494: Uh-huh garden stuff I don't believe I e- we ever called it the garden truck I believe we would call it garden stuff. Interviewer: How about sass garden sass? 494: No I don't believe I heard of that. Interviewer: And what what was it that you grew in the garden? 494: Well we had beans and corn and Interviewer: What kind of beans? uh 494: Well uh we mostly grew the kind that you stick Kentucky wonder pole beans Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And then we had a bunch of bean that we'd let stay on there and shell it we wouldn't pick any of 'em off until they were at the shelling stage and then of course we had the kind that you you snapped you know green beans. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And back when I was a girl growing up oh you didn't have food freezers and you didn't have pressure cookers to can 'em oh we either ate it fresh or we dried it. Now of course tomatoes and things like that we can but now as far as canning shelled beans and canning corn and uh things like that now I believe my mother canned snap beans. Interviewer: #1 but # 494: #2 uh # Interviewer: actually it would be quite an effort to can 494: Yes uh-huh Interviewer: it'd be easier to I suppose you could dry a great deal. 494: Uh-huh. {NW} Interviewer: Much shorter time than than to can 494: And we had the we had the salad patch. Interviewer: Mm-hmm where was 494: You heard that expression?{C: laughing} {NW} That's turnip greens or or #1 mustard # Interviewer: #2 did you use mustard # 494: Uh uh-huh and we used mustard greens too. But it was called go out and pick a mess of salad it wasn't go out and pick a mess of mustard greens Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: You'd just pick a mess of salad. Interviewer: And uh did you ever plant some potatoes but uh? 494: Yes we had Irish potatoes and sweet potatoes. Interviewer: How about the term yam? 494: No uh we never did use that Aux: We we called sweet potatoes not yams 494: We've never used that term around here too much Interviewer: I'm told that there's a there're two different kinds 494: Uh-huh Interviewer: between yams and {X} 494: I think it's a little difference in 'em. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh other things that you grow um? tobacco 494: Mm Interviewer: cabbage? 494: Cabbage onions Aux: Spinach 494: English peas Interviewer: How about something you put in soup? 494: Oh {D: sassafras} what uh Interviewer: Okra? 494: Okra we had we grew okra mm-hmm. Interviewer: And uh 494: We grew mostly the l- about the same as what you grow today. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Radishes? 494: Radishes mm-hmm Interviewer: How about the little tomatoes that uh would volunteer? Might not grow bigger than that 494: Uh-huh we had some of those too. Interviewer: you remember what you called 'em? 494: Tommy toes. Interviewer: Tommy toes 494: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: uh-huh And uh some questions about corn uh did you use much corn on the table? 494: We did when it was fresh course we had no way to preserve it uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: {X} now we really enjoyed it though when it was fresh. Interviewer: Wh- what did you call it uh 494: Well we called it fried corn or if we boiled it on the cob it was corn on the cob Interviewer: Mm-hmm Yeah the different um on 494: #1 Roas- roast- # Interviewer: #2 top # 494: {NW} You thinking about roasting ears? Interviewer: Roasting ears. 494: Roasting ears.{C: laughing} It was Interviewer: Which uh 494: I think it's really supposed to be roasting ears. But there again we shortened it to roasting ears. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Hmm And you would you say corn on the cob or roasting ears or both or? 494: Both Interviewer: Both 494: #1 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: #2 uh # Mm-hmm. You ever hear mutton corn? 494: Mm Interviewer: And the thing on the top of a stalk of corn is 494: tassel {D: a tousle} Interviewer: Uh-huh and the that uh stuff uh the nubbin that you have to pull off um 494: Oh the shuck? Is that what you're talking about? Interviewer: #1 Well the shuck would be the whole thing and then # 494: #2 Yes the silk # The silk Interviewer: #1 The silk? # 494: #2 uh-huh # Interviewer: And {NW} The little things that grow in the woods um #1 sometimes they're poisonous # 494: #2 Mushrooms? # Interviewer: that sometimes 494: mushrooms Interviewer: Yeah 494: We never did hunt for them we was too {X} Aux: but you can eat them they good Interviewer: I didn't catch that 494: Spring chicken Aux: #1 Spring chicken # Interviewer: #2 Oh is that right? # Aux: It's its it's not mushrooms it's uh it's something. 494: It's a type of mushroom. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: They were real good though Lay 'em there and fry 'em Interviewer: Mm-hmm And if they were poisonous what do you call 'em? 494: Toadstools. Interviewer: Toadstools {NW} uh I've heard some some uh different terms for that uh frogstools frog bench frog table 494: Never heard of that. Mm-mm Interviewer: And uh how about {NW} you raised your own gourds for for water 494: Yes uh-huh Interviewer: And I think I asked you about {D: simlins} 494: Oh I've never heard of that. Interviewer: Now How about melons? 494: Yes we raised our melons too. Interviewer: {X} 494: Watermelons and mush melons too cantaloupes. Interviewer: Did you uh have much did you ever raise pumpkins or? 494: Yes we raised pumpkins. Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: Used to raise pumpkins and corn every year Interviewer: Oh they they would be in the corn? Aux: Put 'em in the corn for the hogs Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: And then they'd eat two Interviewer: Corn they would eat it? 494: Yes you could eat the field pumpkins too Interviewer: Um Di- did you say pumpkin or punkin when you were growing up? 494: Punkin {NW} punkin {NW} Interviewer: And you mentioned that you weren't supposed to drink coffee but people drank their coffee uh how did they how did they drink it? uh 494: They Interviewer: anything in it or 494: Uh yes Uh well people liked different things some liked sugar in it only some liked cream in it only or milk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: some like both in it. And if I got to drink it it had to be about half milk and half coffee and uh pour some sugar in it. Interviewer: And if you didn't drink it uh with either what would you say I'll take my coffee 494: Straight Interviewer: straight 494: Mm-hmm Interviewer: You ever hear anybody call it barefoot? 494: No Interviewer: Barefoot coffee naked coffee? 494: {X} I think today they say I'll take my coffee black Interviewer: uh-huh 494: But I think back when I was a girl growing up they said I'll take my coffee straight. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh {NS} you would would you have things at the table to drink water from vase 494: Water glasses Interviewer: #1 Water glasses # 494: #2 Mm-hmm # Oh I tell you another something about the coffee my dad always poured hi- his out in the saucer and drank it out of the saucer. Aux: They called it a #1 {D: sipty cup, a sipty cup} # 494: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: Ah to cool it off huh? 494: And then uh he he would take a biscuit and crumb it up in his coffee and he called that hushpuppy Interviewer: Oh {NW} I see. I see Uh How about homemade whiskey or or beer? 494: No the only thing we ever came close to that we ha- got a hold of some California beer seed one time and I'd like to get a hold of some of that again I can remember that Interviewer: Never heard of that 494: we had it down in our cellar and it was good. It looked like it was little white seeds and you put it in water and it would ferment and I don't know where we got 'em but it they were down in that cellar I can remember #1 that. # Interviewer: #2 California # beer seeds. 494: #1 California beer seeds. # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: #1 # Aux: #2 {X} # how you got 'em around the start of the mill bu-but I know there was 494: It was sweet and it uh well it didn't have a kick to it like whiskey would have it was just a Aux: just a 494: just a good drink good sweet #1 drink. # Interviewer: #2 kinda like # um root beer? 494: I imagine uh-huh Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you remember any terms that they would use for homemade whiskey? 494: Home brew Interviewer: Home brew? 494: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Would that be whiskey or beer? Aux: Well that's more of a beer term isn't it 494: I guess so it's made out of different fruits. Aux: Made out of uh Interviewer: Oh I see Aux: malt and #1 sugar and water # 494: #2 uh-huh # #1 yeah and # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 494: apples cut up Aux: some apples in it or #1 you can put # 494: #2 peaches # Aux: peaches in it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. um would they use something like white mule or white #1 lightning? # 494: #2 Yeah I've heard of that # white mule. Interviewer: That would be a whiskey. 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: {D: blow or} um #1 moonshine # 494: #2 no # Interviewer: popsicle? 494: I've heard of moonshine but I've never heard of that other word. Aux: they had the stills back in {X} Interviewer: mm-hmm Aux: people make their own whiskey out in the woods Interviewer: I guess that was 494: We we were decent people though we didn't do that. {NW} Interviewer: You didn't even talk about it huh? {NW} 494: No Interviewer: Uh {NW} I've heard stump whiskey or stump or um all kinds of differential I think most of these were words uh that a community would put together to mislead somebody else 494: probably so {X} Interviewer: code word they would use uh And how about berries? 494: Oh yes we picked blackberries we we had strawberries few of those in the garden Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: and we had wild blackberries and raspberries I believe that was about all we had. I don't think we had any dewberries. Interviewer: Mm-hmm and peanuts uh 494: Peanuts we grew peanuts Interviewer: Did you call 'em peanuts #1 or # 494: #2 mm-hmm # Goobers sometimes called goobers Interviewer: That's the same 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: same thing mm-hmm and other nuts uh come to mind? 494: We had walnuts that's all we had. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Aux: {D: pecans} 494: Oh yes I guess we did have {D: hickory nuts) few if we'd go out in the woods and hunt 'em Interviewer: mm-hmm 494: mostly walnuts. Interviewer: And these uh oval shaped um {D: ring 'em I think} get 'em from California 494: Almonds or Interviewer: Did you say almonds when you were a girl? 494: Well I didn't even know what it was. Interviewer: No and {NW} you don't uh have pecans around 494: We didn't then. Oh now there might have been some wild trees around but we didn't have any close to us. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: And we Interviewer: Do you today? 494: We have s- two out here in our backyard. They not not bearing too good Interviewer: Uh-huh Do people Aux: They grow walnuts. 494: Oh yes people grow pecans. Uh #1 A lot through here uh-huh. # Interviewer: #2 But no orchards # Mm-hmm. 494: A lot of people yeah everybody has one or two in their yards. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: We don't have what you call many just plain orchards around here. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: I don't normally just regular pecan orchards. 494: No. Aux: They grow a lot in Mississippi. Interviewer: Yes {X} beautiful orchards I mean oh but they can't market them because transportation is a problem mm getting 'em 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: picked and to market and just too much of a 494: And I'll tell you something else while you on food oh and when I smelled an orange today I think of Christmas because then was the only time we got oranges. Interviewer: It's a real treat. 494: When we got oranges it was Christmas. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: Because you one thing you couldn't go to the store anytime during the year and and buy oranges and then that that was a luxury that uh if you could if they did have 'em in the store it was a luxury you couldn't buy. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: But at Christmas time we got oranges. Aux: That's the only time of the year they were in the store is during Christmas time. Interviewer: At Christmas time 494: Mm-hmm Aux: You didn't have 'em all during the year then Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: like you do now. Interviewer: I remember uh my own childhood we never had any oranges except in the what was called a treat that the Sunday school used to give the kids uh {NW} and uh they always had uh some some nuts and uh an orange 494: Mm-hmm Interviewer: and candy. How about uh different fruits uh did you have any cherries? 494: Yes we had cherries and peaches. Interviewer: Mm-hmm How did you prepare the cherries uh? #1 Did uh # 494: #2 oh # Interviewer: can 'em or make preserves? 494: Uh-huh we'd can 'em most of the time. Interviewer: How did you uh prepare them? 494: Oh well you just had to sit down one by one and squeeze that pit out of 'em Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: and uh well they just a one by one job. Interviewer: mm-hmm And uh {NW} how about peaches what kind of 494: oh Well we had we had two kinds we had the free stone peach and then we had the clean peach. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: And we made peach pickle out of the clean peach the kind that clung to seed you peel 'em and pickle 'em whole Interviewer: I see 494: and the other kind you'd uh you know cut off the seed. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: They'd burst off the seed rather and can them for pies and to eat. Interviewer: And uh apples you mentioned uh you dry your own apples #1 uh # 494: #2 mm-hmm # Interviewer: uh how would you get the how would you prepare them to dry? 494: Well uh we most of the time would peel the apple and then we'd slice it off all the way around the core. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: But I have known people to ha- uh core take uh well they'd peel it and then they'd take the core out and slice 'em cross ways and have a little round slice of apple with a hole in the center. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. You ever hear that called a snit? 494: Mm-mm Interviewer: Eh um and what kind of um you'd make preserves di- would you make any kind of jelly uh 494: Mm-hmm apple jelly Interviewer: mm-hmm that was a chief uh 494: uh-huh Interviewer: kind. and um when you would dry fruit uh how would you describe what would happen to it shr- it would shrink or 494: It would shrink up uh-huh and uh Interviewer: um {NS} you ever use the word shrivel? 494: Shrivel yes Interviewer: the uh same? 494: That's that's a word that you used. Interviewer: Mm-hmm And uh you mentioned a syrup can uh which leads me to think that you had uh sugar maples is this right? 494: No now what we had mostly was sorghum molasses. Interviewer: Oh I see 494: Mm-hmm We had the sorghum molasses pitcher. Interviewer: I see. 494: #1 And once # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: #1 # Aux: #2 {D:you know} # Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: mm-hmm Aux: {X} 494: Occasionally we might have a a bucket of uh Louisiana syrup that my dad'd find somewhere in a store and buy Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: and I didn't care too much for it it was too sickening uh flavor. Interviewer: too sweet 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: Do you have uh maples {X} 494: No I don't think so I don't think we have Aux: No I don't think so either Interviewer: mm-hmm And uh {NW} 494: Now we have what's called a sugar maple but as far as anybody ever tapping 'em and getting syrup making uh Interviewer: you don't remember 494: I don't uh-uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm {X} 494: {NW} In my growing up years I don't remember anybody ever tapping and getting syrup from maple trees. Interviewer: You had the sorghum syrup {X} 494: Uh what? Interviewer: You had the sorghum #1 molasses so there was no purpose # 494: #2 Yes uh-huh we we grew the cane # for the sorghum molasses Interviewer: Uh-huh How did you um how would you grow sugar if you bought sugar for preserving? 494: You Interviewer: Ho- how would you sell it in a store? 494: Oh you you bought it by the it was in a big barrel or big bin and you went and bought uh say I want a quarter worth of sugar or fifty cents worth of sugar and uh and the store keeper would take a scoop and scoop it up into a paper bag and weigh it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: on his scales. Interviewer: And you #1 said # 494: #2 It # wasn't prepackaged like it is now. Interviewer: Eh when it wasn't prepackaged you called it um 494: Our fifty cents worth of sugar. Interviewer: Uh-huh Selling it in 494: in the {D: book} uh-huh Interviewer: I see. And town people would buy um lard I suppose same 494: #1 Uh-huh # Aux: #2 Same way # 494: #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Same way. # And uh the uh did you grow many fruit trees um? 494: Oh nearly everybody had a few trees around in their Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 494: yard. You didn't have to spray 'em back #1 then like you do now # Aux: #2 {X} # pear tree 494: Yeah we had plum trees. Aux: Plum trees 494: And uh apricot trees Aux: apricot trees Interviewer: Oh could you really Aux: Yeah Interviewer: grow apricots here? 494: But this day and time y- it costs so much to spray 'em oh that it's just a cheaper or more economical to go to a peach orchard or apple orchard and get what you #1 need # Interviewer: #2 right # 494: as to try to raise your own. Interviewer: Mm Aux: {X} apple orchard peach orchard {X} pretty good size orchard 494: Well I I don't why back then you didn't have to spray 'em uh Aux: Well you didn't have to spray nothing much back then like we do now. Interviewer: Seems there's Aux: garden wasn't sprayed then Interviewer: all kinds of uh lice and bugs and everything else uh Aux: maybe when uh uh you'd have lice on the cabbage they'd put ashes around 'em uh lice on the cabbage {NW} I've seen my mother go out and take wood ashes to sprinkle around 'em Interviewer: Is that right? 494: Mm-hmm {NW} Interviewer: A-and that was for lice not the bu- not the worm but the {NW} I see You know there are a lot of young people are getting interested in that kind of thing now 494: Yes there's a lot this back to #1 nature # Interviewer: #2 Yes uh-huh # 494: organic gardening. Interviewer: I uh takes a lot of lot more knowledge than I've got but I- I'm in favor of it 494: #1 I am too # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: #1 I tell you I believe all this # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: stuff that we're eating's causing all this cancer so many people's having. Interviewer: Uh They can't prove that it isn't 494: I know it Interviewer: And uh th-th-the burden of proof is on us I guess we can't prove that it is but 494: We just don't know what we're eating in this #1 day and time # Interviewer: #2 Oh that's right. # I'd like to uh shift to some questions about uh they're just ordinary life uh for example going to school could you um tell me something about your school life um? Uh when how long did the school run and and uh that kind of thing. 494: Well it uh we had I guess an ordinary term Uh back when I first started to school we had it was a little two teacher one room school and we went to school in what we called the school wagon. One of the men in the community had a top on his wagon kind of like a canvas top and he'd go from our house he'd pick up the children yo- you paid so much each month to get to ride the school wagon and he would take you to school in his wagon. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: and uh Then a few years later I believe it got to where we'd have the split term didn't we when the when cotton {NW} there's a lot of cotton that had to be uh prevalent in the community. And we'd start early in July and then turn out for cotton picking about a month or six weeks and then have the rest of the term. Interviewer: I see 494: And now that stayed in effect until Aux: just two 494: about oh ten or fifteen years ago and uh the reason I guess it's not still going on because people don't pick cotton by hand nowadays they use cotton pickers you know the machinery. Interviewer: Now that's interesting 494: #1 But we had a split term. # Aux: #2 {X| # 494: #1 # Aux: #2 {X} # 494: And then when the school wagon played out we had a horse and buggy that me and my two sisters were educated uh uh with this ol' we had an old gray horse we called him old George and he went to school with us every day. Interviewer: And 494: {D: care of us} Interviewer: Uh th- that must've been {X} 494: They had stables at school when we when we'd get to school we'd put him in the stable. Interviewer: Were you uh kind of fortunate to have that? 494: Yes we were Interviewer: Uh-huh 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: I imagine most many #1 families didn't # 494: #2 walked # Interviewer: uh 494: Right Interviewer: Mm-hmm I see Uh how about uh {NW} how did you refer to the teacher? as {NW} uh just a teacher or a schoolmarm or how did 494: Oh just as a teacher Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: Mm-hmm Interviewer: And how would she refer to you? #1 her # 494: #2 that # as a pupil Interviewer: pupil? 494: mm-hmm {NS} Interviewer: And uh suppose you {NS} I suppose George wouldn't let you but uh suppose you decided not to go some day uh 494: #1 Well # Interviewer: #2 What was that # called? 494: Well playing hooky I guess {NW} But I did oh I'd get to school {NS} and I'd get sick. And I'd start I'd tell the teacher I was sick and wanted to go home well she'd let me and I'd start out walking. And I had an aunt that lived just a little piece up the road and she knew my tricks and she'd be watching for me she'd see me coming she'd come out want to know what's the matter I'd say I'm sick I'm going home she'd say well come in the house a minute and she'd give me a dose of castor oil. {NW} And that cured me I soon learn- and I couldn't get by her house I couldn't fool her. {NW} And she knew I was playing off that's why she'd give me the castor oil. Interviewer: I see. Well that's I think worse than a worse than a thrashing I {NW} Wha- what did they do to the boys if they caught 'em? 494: Oh they'd uh whip 'em. Interviewer: Yeah 494: I don't think they used the word thrashed did they just whip 'em just whip 'em. Interviewer: And how were the different years how did you know that you were succeeding in school as you moved from 494: You'd pass. You'd pass from first grade to second #1 grades # Interviewer: #2 right # 494: so on and so forth. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And what kind of uh subjects would you study uh did they did you have much uh history? 494: Oh yes we did uh we had history reading and writing and arithmetic. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Uh how did they refer to the war between the states or the civil war in history? Did you study that very much? 494: Um yes in the eighth grade I think we had to do what we called United States history. And we had all that in the eighth grade. Interviewer: How did they refer to it? As 494: The war between the states? Interviewer: Yes uh-huh 494: that's th- Interviewer: Rather than the civil war? 494: I think so. Aux: Mm 494: Uh-huh Aux: war was war between the states Interviewer: mm-hmm 494: I believe it was Interviewer: Uh i-has that changed uh {NW} 494: I really don't know Interviewer: mm-hmm 494: whether it has or not Interviewer: Do you hear the other term? 494: Yes we hear the other term now more civil war Interviewer: Mm-hmm and {NW} did you study geography? 494: Yes geography was a very important subject. Interviewer: Uh 494: Spelling was Interviewer: What what did they consider to be uh the southern states in geography? 494: Oh um Kentucky down Kentucky I don't well was Arkansas one Arkansas Louisiana and Kentucky and then on Aux: Alabama and Georgia 494: Alabama and Georgia Mississippi Florida South Carolina Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: Now I don't know about North Carolina Interviewer: Is that right? and Do they consider uh was Florida very important state then 494: Well I don't think it seem- I don't believe it was as important back then as it was now. Aux: Didn't think as much of it then as we do now {NS} Interviewer: What would be the uh major cities that you remember? 494: Hmm Interviewer: in the south 494: Memphis? {NW} Um Birmingham Atlanta New Orleans Interviewer: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Did you study any of the Carolina #1 cities uh # 494: #2 yes # Interviewer: Charleston 494: Mm-hmm Yeah we did Charleston that was one of them Interviewer: Any cities in uh in Georgia? 494: At-Atlanta is about the only one that I can remember studying is Atlanta Interviewer: Remember Savannah or 494: Oh yes Savannah Interviewer: And Macon or Maybe these weren't too 494: I remember Savannah but I don't remember too much about Macon. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. The reason I I'm interested in these questions is uh uh I think our view of or young people's view of the world is so different from ours uh I know {NW} my own childhood uh uh New York and Washington was you know something #1 so far away # 494: #2 Uh-huh # Mm-hmm {NW} Interviewer: It was almost like another planet. 494: That's right. Interviewer: And uh the smaller cities and states would not really be uh we just wouldn't know 'em we'd know the capital. so 494: Uh-huh now that was mostly the way it was when I was in school. We'd have to learn the capitals of each state. Interviewer: Do you remember uh th- the major cities in Tennessee was much made of that uh? 494: Oh Interviewer: Memphis uh 494: Not too much. oh Interviewer: Was um 494: As I said the capitals of the states were about the only things that we learned. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. What was your attitude toward say the cities in the east uh? 494: Didn't know too much about 'em. Interviewer: Chattanooga was a far #1 far # 494: #2 Yeah # It was a far piece away. Interviewer: and 494: Even Memphis was far away. Interviewer: Mm-hmm and {NW} Did you uh study Texas very much? 494: Well just uh as the general run of geography goes course we had to learn the capital of Texas {NS} and as far other than that Interviewer: Did you think of it as a part of the south or? {NW} 494: Well I don't really know I guess I did. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Those are it's interesting how um attitudes change like that 494: I believe thought more of Texas being west Interviewer: Pretty far west 494: I think I did Interviewer: We always did 494: Uh-huh Aux: out west Interviewer: Wild west uh Aux: yep Interviewer: And how about um {NW} cities in Alabama other than you mentioned Birmingham but uh did you how about the {X} Gulf Coast? 494: Well I think I can remember Mobile it may be that there was a song written about Mobile maybe that is the reason. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: I can't remember what the song was now. Interviewer: Wasn't something about Mobile Bay? 494: Uh maybe it was. I think that the railroad track the the Mo- Mobile Aux: a giant cash signs uh 494: No The Mobile and Interviewer: Mobile in Ohio 494: That's it Mobile in Ohio Interviewer: Mm 494: Railroad tracks maybe came through not too far west of uh east of Obion maybe that's where I learned the name Mobile. Interviewer: Mm-hmm And how about uh {NW} places in the north? {NW} the east 494: Well as you said that was a far piece off {NW} but my uncle oh well what was his job he was with a poultry company and when chickens were shipped north he rode the train and had to feed the chickens in route and I had heard him talk of New York because that was one of the places he went with chickens. Interviewer: I see. How about the nation's capital how was that referred to uh? 494: Well I I don't remember. Interviewer: Mm-hmm did you say Washington DC or? 494: Uh-huh Washington DC I think when we said it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: It's been so long ago I don't even remember. And and they seem so close now. Interviewer: Uh-huh 494: It's hard to remember how you #1 felt back then # Interviewer: #2 That's right. # That's right. uh it's it's interesting though. 494: Yes it is Interviewer: to try to how how did you regard cities say in Ohio? uh was that pretty far away? 494: Yes it was. Interviewer: How about Cincinnati? 494: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Oh D- did you study it um 494: Well of course we studied it but i-it's hard to remember as I said a while ago since those places are so familiar now from television Interviewer: right 494: and newspapers and Interviewer: {X} 494: And we we have traveled you know through several of the states and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: It's Interviewer: What was your attitude towards Chicago? 494: Well that was a far piece off to and a and a mean town {NW} Interviewer: What did you think about Cincinnati {D: Ohio?} Did you have any #1 feelings # 494: #2 no # I didn't have any feelings at all. The thing that brings to my mind about Cincinnati my my sister was a music teacher she studied music and at one time she talked about going to the Cincinnati Conservatory for music. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: And that's the first I can remember or about the only thing I can remember about Cincinnati's being a music uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 494: center there. Interviewer: The it has a nickname the Queen City it was I think at one time the center of culture 494: Uh-huh Interviewer: Midwest. Uh how about uh how did they teach you to pronounce things St. Louis or St. Louis? 494: St. Louis. Interviewer: St. Louis? 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: uh-huh And the state uh 494: Missouri Interviewer: Missouri uh many time they say Missouri and uh {NW} does that sound more natural or 494: Missouri sounds more natural Interviewer: Uh-huh 494: Course in later years I'd learned to say Missouri but I think since you've mentioned it back when I was growing up it was Missouri Interviewer: mm-hmm 494: and not Missouri just Missouri Interviewer: Mm-hmm Missouri 494: Missouri Interviewer: Same with Cincinnati. 494: mm-hmm Interviewer: that's Cincinnati, but Cincinnati. 494: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Okay and uh Di- did you do you remember anything about uh the New England states? W-was that felt to be a center of {NS} 494: Oh Interviewer: maybe culture or 494: I think so {NS} The New England states were just far off and something to be studied about in geography never visited and and uh {NW} probably never would never be seen in Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} Cause I remember them they were they were thought to be uh {X} all the money and uh 494: uh-huh Interviewer: the universities and uh what seemed to be centered there. {NS} In fact I think most of the country felt pretty inferior about uh somebody who towards somebody who came from New England. 494: Mm-hmm Does the south still feel inferior to the those states?