533:  About rattling on anyway.
Interviewer:  No it's fine.
533:  but uh anyway back to the to the great grandparents. You know like I said they died and uh there was um I believe six boys and and one girl and uh her name was {NS} Which being country got to be Beatrice Which was shortened to Beat.
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
533:  #2 Ya know uh so ya know # we called her Aunt Beat.
Interviewer:  #1 Right #
533:  #2 Uh # Which reminds you of the little red thing ya eat ya know #1 that the Indians used to paint their face with. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  But uh like I said uh one uncle um he joined uh this gosh must a' been in the like early twenties ya know. He uh even before and uh before that. I guess World War One. Yeah. Been in the teens. Anyway he ya know they were all big ya know I mean like uh ya know. They they grew fast. And uh I saw this gentleman one time. We called him Uncle Eddie. His name was Harley. But anyway they explained how he got the Eddie business uh. Uh when he went into the navy at age fifteen and uh. They had a lot of boxing and wrestling stuff like in the navy then ya know that was entertainment. Wasn't much else going on. And he he was the world black heavyweight champion of the U.S. navy.
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  And he was going up against one of the big shots. That was back in the jay days of Jack Dempsey and that bunch. and he was going up. He was supposed to fight somebody. I don't know who it was. I got a booklet somewhere ya know that that he wrote all his junk down in. And uh anyway a little leaflet I mean. {NW} And so they ya know they they started digging up stuff on him to tell about him and where he came from and they found out that the booger was just seventeen years old then. And hell he'd done been in the navy two years so they see he couldn't ya know they threw him out.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Yeah.
533:  They had to get him out of the navy and he couldn't fight. But anyway we got pictures of him ya know when uh in his navy stuff. Ya know his little navy shorts with the U.S. N on it and the little ya know the the anchor and the rope and his boxing gloves. #1 And uh #
Interviewer:  #2 That's great. #
533:  Ah ya know just like I said typical family and uh he stayed out in California. And another uncle the baby of the bunch his name was Doyle and he was a boxer too and so they changed his name from Doyle to Tommy. Ya know it was back in the days uh ya know when they when they did that kind of stuff. And uh they stayed out there and and uh Uncle Eddie died last year out there with nobody ya know he had a wife no kids. Uh Uncle Tommy uh was married once had one child and uh he's still out there. He's been back here three times I think in my life time. Uncle Eddie came back once. His hands would make two of mine and I got pretty big hands for a little guy. I wear a size twelve ring ya know? Believe that? But his hands ya know would make both ya know like this.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  And I guess he must have been like sixty-five or seventy or something the time I saw him and I was maybe fifteen sixteen. I don't know. And he was showing me one time and and I thought I was tough 'course I was a squirty little guy but he hit me and knocked me clean across the living room just with a little {NS} like that ya know? So I had a lot of respect for him.
Interviewer:  Yes.
533:  Uh but anyway that was that was my dad's background. And his daddy was one of the the footloose ones that uh uh ya know married a little while before the depression and uh after he was married awhile uh ya know like I said typical family they had a kid and it died of pneumonia. Then he had another one and another one and another one ya know and uh so ya know dad had to help make ya know help make the living. And uh. Ya know just a typical family I ya know basically education would range anywhere from grade one to five six seven and eight ya know in his ya know parental ya know his background.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Ya know something like that.
Interviewer:  Was your grandfather a farmer or?
533:  Well no he was uh he was was really uh I I guess you would say 'course he did farm for a while ya know until the depression got so bad nobody could make any money at it. And then after that he went to um somewhere in in the North uh seemed like somewhere in Iowa ya know and was working at some kind of factory. I don't know probably some government thing ya ya know and uh sending what he could back which never amounted to much. Uh he wasn't what you'd call well he's not I don't guess he'd be the kind of grand daddy you'd look back on with a lot of pride. Uh I nothing basically wrong with him other than he just got used to being ya know working somewhere else and ya know sending the money home. Uh he wasn't a drunk or a ya know a thug or anything like that. He didn't he didn't have three or four families anywhere ya know nothing like that {D: I mean he's} ya know but um anyway even after my dad {X} was married must have been in the early fifties uh he and my grandmother got a divorce and uh years later she married again and had one more child who is ya know younger than me, my aunt. Beautiful girl. Uh she must be about twenty-three years old now. She's married. Has a child. Uh. Her dad was uh even had a little Indian in him too matter of fact more than the rest of us. And she's real dark-skinned. Has long heavy black hair and brown eyes about size of a piece of sausage ya know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  and uh the big mouth the high cheek bones the slick face and all of that. But anyway that's that's uh
Interviewer:  Sound like Rita Coolidge.
533:  Well she's shorter than Rita. Rita's ya know she looks a lot like Rita except she's a little bit as they would say around here fleshier.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Ya know she's uh her her uh face is a little bit fuller.
Interviewer:  Mm.
533:  And uh Like I said ya know just good ya know a tight body I mean oh strong arms ya know no flabby skin. Nothing like that.
Interviewer:  Yeah. And your grandmother was does she have a specific uh job was she
533:  No she was a house wife ya know. Barefoot and pregnant. #1 Ya know what I mean? Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 In the kitchen. #
533:  {NW}
Interviewer:  And you said education about uh
533:  Uh I oh you know sixth grade would be a maximum. Somewhere along in there. What good grief she married when she was about fourteen ya know so she couldn't had much.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Ya know how they did.
Interviewer:  Your grandfather bout the same correct?
533:  Uh yeah I'd say fifth or sixth grade.
Interviewer:  Okay.
533:  Just 'til he got old enough to tell his older sister that made him go to school that he wasn't going ya know?
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Um.
Interviewer:  Uh didn't ask you about your uh grandmother on your mother's side. What about her schooling. Any idea?
533:  Uh. About the same ya know back then everybody was the same I I expect
Interviewer:  Sure.
533:  ya know five six years. Something like that.
Interviewer:  Okay. Do you know anything about earlier ancestry? Where your people came from? Or
533:  #1 Well uh yes #
Interviewer:  #2 anything like that? #
533:  and and in the early eighteen I say early eighteen no it's like ya know in the er eighteen fifties or early sixties The Huffman crowd moved from South Carolina and ironically my mother's background did too. Uh my mother's mother was an Alexander. And if you'll shop around around here you'll find about six different sets of Alexander and they're they'll tell ya ain't no kin to him ya know. And here's the reason for that that um Well on my on my mother's side my probably be my great great great great grandfather Alexander. Um he was ya know they were living in South Carolina and his they had three or four kids and his wife died. So he married this other woman and they started moving South ya know. And uh anyway over the years ya know they stop here and live a year and move on and this kind of thing. They had three or four and his wife died So there he had like I don't remember the exact number but again it's one of my old great aunts has got it all documented somewhere. But anyway he had like six seven or eight kids ya know and he married again. Married a lady in Alabama. And they moved on over into this area. And uh she didn't live long ya know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  You know how it was is all this kind of stuff that went on back then. He may have delivered the kids. I don't know that could have been the problem. Uh but anyway they had a few anyway he had like seven or eight kids ya know by three different marriages and then he married a woman and they settled here in this area. And they had a house full so ya know he probably thirteen fifteen kids and you know {D: in his string} And and over the passing of generations now you've got like I said five six seven different sets of Alexanders around here that ya know really physically are not any kin anymore because it's all washed out. They had ya know the same original old daddy back there somewhere but that was five or six seven eight generations ago.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  {NW} And uh then one of his sons uh was my or some of the crowd anyway was uh ya know my great great my great grandfather {NS} and um so then my uh mother's mother was one of that clan.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  And uh. Now on my daddy's side they there was the same thing. Basically the Huffmans moved from South Carolina. Uh came into this area and the best that I've been able to collect it and I enjoy talking to the old ones ya know and finding out about this stuff.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Uh this Mr. Huffman or whichever one he was that came down had four or five sons and one went uh a little bit south of here down a place called {X} it's about forty miles away and settled in that neck of the woods. Uh another one went here another one went yonder ya know and that's uh. Huffman is not really a common name in. Ya know now there's a lot ya know maybe some Hoffmans and Coffmans. But Huffman H-U-F-F-M-A-N and and a lot of times when I'm talking to like an agency in New York or something. What what did you say your name was again? I'll say ya know Rick Huffman. And I I say it southern so that they can understand Huffman ya know. Uh and they say would you spell it and I say look it's southern for Hoffman ya know? Put a U in there instead of an O. And they ya know get a kick out of it and everything everybody lives happily ever after. But anyway they settled in different parts and there's there's still a few Huffmans over in the um uh Water Valley Mississippi area which is like sixty miles or so uh northwest of here. There's some down in the Webster county area I was talking about a minute ago which is forty fifty miles southwest. And uh there's about four or five different clans of them in Chickasaw County. And some of them I didn't even know until I was a grown married man.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
533:  One lived down the road from me. This guy came down knocking on my door one night. Said let me use your phone. I said look kid I don't know you. You're not coming into my house. Ah hell you know me. My name's Buddy Huffman. #1 And I said I've never seen you in my life. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  I said you smell like a Huffman. That's about all I can give you ya know. And uh
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  But you know like I said eh They was ya know some of this parentage that moved off to Arkansas or something. {X} You know like I said I I don't know Same thing happened at a ball game one time uh. I had a handful of uh you know electronic ya know equipment ya know radio stuff and was going in and and uh ya know knowing the people there and the principal of the high school said said something uh to the this kid at the door ya know. I say kid. He was seventeen or eighteen. He said uh Ah you can go in. Let your kin folks in free. 'Course I was getting in fr- free anyway I was ya know coming in to do a broadcast. Make a presentation too. And the guy said yeah I guess I will And so I looked over to Shorty. This the principal of the school. They they call him Shorty. He's about six five and weighs about three-hundred uh which is typical around here ya know. Shorty. and I said Shorty who in the hell is that? He said oh that's David Huffman. What do you mean boy you kidding. And I said look I never laid eyes on that idiot in my life ya know? I said David Huffman? I don't know David Huffman. So you know you you have you have that and I always laugh and I say well I know everybody in the county except the Huffmans.
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  And I run across a new one every few days ya know and say uh I don't know you.
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  But you know
Interviewer:  Sure uh okay. Tell me something about your wife. Is she from this part of town?
533:  Uh yeah. Right. Uh her um her dad is um ya know they've uh they've always been around here. Dad and her mom too. Ya know their their family's. One was from one side of the county and one from the other but ya know uh they've always all been from around here. The Fars and the Talents. Her mother was a Far. Her dad's a Talent.
Interviewer:  Okay. How old is she?
533:  Uh Janie? She's twenty-five. Ya know. I was trying to think yeah.
Interviewer:  Okay. Is she a Baptist too?
533:  Well actually she was born a Methodist. So you know you can just put Methodist down there for the record. Uh. {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh. What about her schooling?
533:  Uh you know. High school.
Interviewer:  Is she in any sort of uh organizations or clubs?
533:  No. Not really. I well I guess that's my fault. Ya know but I mean ya know.
Interviewer:  It's the way it is.
533:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Okay.
533:  Ah she probably would be but she's kind of quiet and shy which is what I need ya know uh is is ya know energetic and and I'm not saying I'm outgoing but out into junk all the time as I am. I need somebody that's not in to so many things so that they can follow along with me and help me do mine and ya know this kind of stuff. Go to the meetings with me and and ya know be a part that way ya know be my wife instead of uh you know me having to take one of the kids or something to the meeting because mama had to go ya know do something else.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  I mean I'm I'm a family man. I think a family oughta be together. I think that's a lot of the a lot of the problem that we get into. 'Course I know you can discipline your kids and teach 'em everything you know and teach 'em even better things than what you know and you still have no guarantee that they're not gonna turn out to be a rotten egg ya know? Uh but you gotta try. I think a family needs to be close together because it it gives you a certain warmness and security some love ya know? And uh I think I think it's good to be dependent on somebody in in that sense. Not financially necessarily eh not even physically necessarily but I mean you know emotionally. I I think it's good. So anyway like I said I I'm a family I'm a family guy. When I go home at night I shut my door. And that's the end of it. I'll lay down the floor in my drawers and watch TV. Ya know uh light a cigar and uh ya know that's home ya know? And uh
Interviewer:  How many children do you have?
533:  We got two. Yeah. Got a boy and a girl. And uh
Interviewer:  Okay. Could you describe these uh sketches that you did for me? #1 Just a little bit about both of them? #
533:  #2 well # Well the old house uh the one that I did most of my growing up in it. 'Course back in in those days you know you'd live in one house while you know you rented a house and you know you'd move to another one or something but this is the one that that we lived in when we lived in the Vardaman area when I was between ya know four and seven or whatever it was years of age. Uh the reason that we moved back down there. My grandmother. My mother's mother. died in fifty-one. And uh she had ya know brothers and si- well sisters still at home. And then my grandfather. My mother's daddy. Died in fifty-six. And so there was ya know four girls at home.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  That somebody had to take care of. And My mother and daddy are good people they. This kind of thing always the ya know they happened to be the ones that have to take it up like Aunt Beat that I was talking about. Daddy's Aunt Beat. She's old now and she's by herself and you know she was just always by herself and he was having to go down there and check on her so we wound up building her a house up here by their house so that he can keep an eye on her. Uh I guess that kind of thing happens to you and you wind up with that responsibility when you're man enough to take it ya know. So anyway uh Mother had an older sister and an older brother and this kind of thing but mother and daddy wound up uh we moved into to my really what was mother's parents' house down there and took care of those girls. Raised those girls. Got 'em through high school and got 'em married and all this stuff ya know? So that's what we were doing down here. Uh my dad was twenty-four years old at the time. Had two kids of his own and and four teenage girls and his wife and he was making thirty bucks a week. Ya know. So we did alright. But anyway. #1 Uh #
Interviewer:  #2 How many rooms in that house? #
533:  Let me see. One two three four about five. It was uh a fairly nice-sized house for the time. It wasn't a shotgun house or anything like that uh ya know it was a pretty decent house I mean Uh had the I don't know if you're familiar with what we call brick siding. Used to call it brick siding. Ya know it was just a rough uh asphalt really. Like uh I mean like asphalt roofing.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Ya know. {D: Sealed down step} Only came in rolls you know and it looked like bricks ya know and they stuck it on the outside of the house.
Interviewer:  When you say shotgun house exactly what do you mean?
533:  Uh shotgun house uh basically is ya know just like if you laid those two pieces of notebook paper end to end It's just um uh a two-room house ya know? A front room and a back room. Ya know it it had no basic design. Looked like a cracker box.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Uh one of my uncles lived in one of those for a long time.
Interviewer:  Doors lined up so you could see right through the middle of the house?
533:  No no no no that's that was the rich people's house. That was uh
Interviewer:  Uh-huh?
533:  one you're talking about is ya know like the hallway in the middle ya know and rooms over here and rooms over there and a hallway in the middle with a well in the middle of the hall.
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah. They called it anything different? #
533:  #2 Ya know. # Uh no. That was just just a house you know. Uh it's to my knowledge I never knew but one person that lived in one like that and we didn't get to go in her house very much. Had to play on the porch. Ya know because there was a a well in the middle of the floor in there uh where they got their water Cistern. Some people called them cisterns. Watch out don't let the baby fall in the cistern. Uh S-I-S-T-E-R-N I think is what that was but it was just a big well in the floor. But no a shotgun house is is just two rooms just like a cracker box and if you divided it and made two rooms out of it.
Interviewer:  I see.
533:  But ours was not that. It was like I said it was a fairly nice house uh. On the front you know the the porch a couple of feet off the ground ya know you had a you had a porch and we kept it painted gray. You know it was a wood porch and it wasn't screened or anything but uh uh it was the length of the house. And of course it was covered by the the roof that went over the house. Uh kind of like a lot of people do now when they have a one-sided car port you know? Uh
Interviewer:  What are the different rooms in that house?
533:  Okay you have um of course the living room when you went in. The house basically on the front had two front doors. Ya know? And uh back then you had you didn't call them locks. You called it a latch. And uh even before the latch you had a little thing called a thumb bolt. And uh you you thumb bolted the door I guess took a lot of time. Now I tell my wife I say hey don't forget to thumb bolt the door ya know And it was just a little thing. It's just what it was. A little bolt. You push it over your thumb. Ya know you thumb bolt the door. Uh So anyway had two doors there in in the front and you went in on the right side which was basically acceptable everywhere if you went into somebody's house and they had two front doors like us you went in the one on the right. Don't know why but you just did. Uh and it was the living room when you uh when you first went in and there for a while we used it uh as a as a bedroom too ya know for one of the girls. And um Then uh we had a fireplace there when you went in. Windows all across the front. And um you go past that room and uh you walk into the dining room uh which had a table and about four or five chairs and a bench. or a bench really but they called it a bench back then. And it was just a just a wood bench. And no back on it. Just a ya know two planks up and one plank across. And that's where the kids sat ya know. You get over put 'em all on the on the bench over there. And we had a had a bed in there one time too. One of the girls. And uh had a potbellied stove. Yeah. A heater in there. And you'd run a pipe out the window that kind of thing and then the next room on that particular side was the kitchen. And it was just that. We did have an elec- we had an electric stove and uh you know no sink or anything like that we drew our water from the well outside. Ya know drop the rope down in there and dodge the turtle and frog and get a bucket of water and pull it up
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  And a lot of people don't believe this because a lot of my friends didn't grow up that way ya know we get somewhere and we get to talking about it and they say aw hell Huffman you didn't grow up like that. But I mean you know we did I mean that's
Interviewer:  Sure.
533:  that's the way it was. {NS} And uh then the other side of the house of course you could a' go you know from the uh from the dining room into into the one of the bedrooms and there was two full-sized beds in there. And uh. And then uh Then there was another room back up that you could a' go into from the living room. Uh there was a closet between those two main bedrooms and that was mother and daddy's room. In the front of the bedroom. There was a fireplace strangely enough there was a fireplace in in mother and daddy's bedroom and it was back to back with the fireplace that was in the girl's bedroom there ya know and you could #1 look like that ya know and see through ya know to the other bedroom. #
Interviewer:  #2 Right. #
533:  But uh that's how we kept it warm and I can't never remember getting really bad cold. Ya know I mean I don't remember freezing in the winter. Ya know people talk about hey when I was a kid you could see holes in the floor well you could see holes in our floor now and then. We'd patch 'em up and it was it was a decent tight house ya know. Glass windows and the whole thing. Uh you know the little out house outside uh for lack of a better word. with a quince tree beside the outhouse and I don't know why but I always grew up thinking everybody oughta have a quince tree beside their uh you know manure parlor or whatever you wanna call it. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 And #
533:  #2 {X} # We had a back porch too ya know. And a and a back porch it was high off the ground and ya know you uh that's where you threw the water out of the wash pan. We didn't have a bathtub ya know and you took a bath especially in the winter time. And then a wash pan
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
533:  which is you know maybe like a gallon and a half uh container And you can still get 'em at some of the general stores way out in the country around here. And you know you warm some water and have some cold water in when you warm some water you take the water out of the well in the bucket and put it over in the pan and warm it up on the stove and you know all this. And everybody just uh kinda well let's take a birdbath ya know like you would if you'd you know if you'd uh been to one uh meeting ya know and you didn't have time to take a bath you'd come back ya know and just kind of rag yourself off ya know and and change clothes and {NW} put on some more deodorant another white shirt and go back to the meeting. And so that's kinda what we did especially in the winter. Now in the summer we'd go out to um ya know we'd go out to the pool for instance and get a number three wash tub and uh and fill that full of water that's that's the two boys and my older brother and my older brother wasn't there. {C: tape distorted} And he wasn't around then. {C: tape distorted} And we'd get in that tub ya know {C: tape distorted} We'd take a bath. {C: tape distorted} And uh {C: tape distorted} {X} Weird. {NW} But anyway I'm sorry. {NS}
Interviewer:  I was gonna ask you since you brought up the out house You ever heard people around here call it anything else #1 you mentioned out house and manure parlor. #
533:  #2 Oh yeah # Oh I just made up the manure parlor I yeah I'm bad about making up words but #1 Well Johnny #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah. #
533:  house. A lot of people called it a Johnny house. I know I had some friends that uh uh after I moved over here to Houston and they called theirs the Johnny house and they were laughing about Amanda and Sam were these twin cousins of theirs and one of them got stuck in the hole in the Johnny house ya know. And I thought what the hell's a Johnny house ya know? And of course I {NS} I knew what it was. But it just sounded funny. And uh we called it a toilet. That's what we called it. Ya know said uh ya know hey momma it's dark go with me to the toilet. And that's what it was was a toilet. And and still to this day now you know some things stay with you But I I don't like to use the word ya know toilet in reference to brute and old spice and ya know
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  Uh oh uh what is it shower to shower body powder you know because to me a toilet ya know {X} gross association ya know there was a Sears and Roebuck catalog out there from last year that you use and and uh you know people live longer now and I know why. Because we take care of ourselves better I mean like then uh uh God no wonder ya know people that're forty fifty years now have hemorrhoids. Ya know?
Interviewer:  Corn cobs.
533:  Well you know corn cobs and uh wet corn cobs were good but dry ones were hell. And uh
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  Uh but you know I mean God rough newspapers and stuff like that and the way we ate uh ya know we ate uh we ate a lot of pork. Because you know pork grew a lot faster than uh than than beef did. Besides it didn't cost as much you can feed a pork uh a hog a hog as it was back then slop. We had a slop bucket. And it was by the it was over it was in the kitchen. Now which and if you were to walk into that house now if I was to go into that house if I could just you know take myself back now I'd probably gag. Because the slop bucket was a five gallon bucket that was over by the back door and in the summer it was outside the back door 'cause it got rank boy in the summer. But um and the dogs were the same way. But what you didn't eat off the table or you know the the uh peelings off the um uh potatoes ya know and cucumbers and stuff like this ya know and the coffee grounds and uh ya know the watermelon rinds. Ya know and the leftover corn bread. You threw it in the slop bucket. Well at the end of a day when you's feeding a crew like that ya know you'd have two and a half gallons of slop I mean you know potato peelings just junk. But a hog will eat anything. They say they're the smartest animal in the world. They probably are. But anyway they'd eat anything so You didn't really have to supplement a hog too much 'cause they could ya know as the old saying root hog or die ya know they go out there and root around and eat something.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  We had a pig pool. Everybody had a pig pool which was a slushy uh place down away from the house where the where the hogs got down in the mud to stay cool in the summer you know.
Interviewer:  Is that the same as a pen?
533:  Well {NW} the pig the pig pen but there was a pig pool #1 which is just uh #
Interviewer:  #2 Just a #
533:  yeah you know it's a little pool of water. Uh you know sometimes small sometimes large. That's probably very colloquial ya know pig pool. Uh
Interviewer:  #1 You ever heard of #
533:  #2 Some friends #
Interviewer:  anybody around here calling a hog parlor?
533:  Hog parlor? Yeah now hog parlor now well that had a connotation of being a uh dressed up place for a hog see. A hog parlor was like uh whenever you had clean hogs I mean you know you could you had a nice clean place for them to stay you know a barn with uh some type of floor in it ya know where they could come in and that was the parlor. That's a hog parlor.
Interviewer:  I see.
533:  Uh a little bit cleaner than a you know the pig pen. Pig pen stinks. I'm here to tell ya. But anyway and for that reason we ate a lot of pork ya know I say not a lot but when we ate meat it was pork ya know we made our sausage ya know and this kind of stuff. We had a smoke house. You know you'd you'd hang the meat in a smoke house Put salt on it it'd sit out there and flies get on it and all this but anyway Uh pork you know is greasy and it ain't good for you. {NS} And uh {NS}
Interviewer:  Tell me about the house that you said you just moved out of.
533:  Well actually it's it's been a little while. I sold it. But uh it was uh matter of fact the original house the idea uh a guy dreamed it up in Marietta, Georgia. You could probably go out there and see it. But um {NS} Um it had a Spanish design well I I don't have any Spanish and I don't know why it did. But um Along the front I said I do not want a house where people come in my back door. Around here everybody's ya know the basic Southern style is ya know y'all come on over. And everybody's you drive you car into the car port or garage which is the slick word and you get out and go into the door there that enters the house and ninety-nine percent of the time it goes right in to the kitchen. or dining room you know the kitchen area. Ya know? And uh Then after that you go on past the kitchen and take a turn usually and you go into the living room. And I no and you know a lot of people have a sidewalk from their from their driveway to the front door. But if you drive into the car port you gotta walk back to the front of the house and get on the sidewalk to go to the front door so everybody comes in the back door. I said I don't want that. I want one door. And I said I don't want any windows on the front because every time a car comes by there are lights going #1 front windows you know? #
Interviewer:  #2 Right. #
533:  Look up ya know thinking somebody's driving up the yard. So I cross the front Uh it was the stucco type. Ya know. The uh the mortar hanging out of the white brick the whitest white brick. And uh with these um look like uh furniture legs. I guess you would say table legs in the window to make give it kind of a cell appearance you know kind of a jail cell appearance. Uh the uh I had one window on the front. I had a little uh sunken in ceramic design there to hang things on like at Halloween you put a witch out there you know Christmas a reef. This kind of thing. And um and a light on that. Uh but you came in to the yard uh down the driveway and here ya know you made a turn and you went into the car port. Car port separated from the house. Which I guess would make it a real true to life garage wouldn't it? But anyway Uh it was separated from the house in a sense um the slab you know came down a time or two on the way. A concrete slab. And uh you went you know through the door of the garage onto a patio. To your right there is a is a flower bed built up flower bed.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  And uh the roof has got a you know there's a cut-out place there. To let the rain etcetera in. And uh then there's a concrete patio and you then you're you know you're walking into the door and when you went into the door I built it so that it it had a foyer. Uh with some of this Jefferson Davis floor stuff on it ya know just looked like puzzle wood. Uh because I didn't like ceramic ya know.
Interviewer:  Why do you call it Jefferson Davis?
533:  Well that was the name of it. I don't know. Jefferson Davis was the particular style of it. Ya know the old wood put put together floors ya know? And uh {NS} Uh and whenever you came in take about three steps in to your right about a a three inch drop in the in the floor and there's a living room. And it ya know the Spanish archway you know in the living room it was uh Egyptian white walls you know kind of off-white. And uh and an off-white carpet. And then uh you know twelve fourteen feet away there was another arch and you stepped back up and it was a dining room.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Mm-kay? And uh now you could go back to the foyer and go straight on through and you'd be in the den. where the fireplace and TV and a black uh not black but old nasty looking oh uh paneling was. I said I want paneling looks like it just went out here to ya know Billy Bob Fender Bender's house and and and jerked wood off his barn and stuck it in my house. So ya know that's what. You back up against it and ya know in your underwear and you stick a splinter in your rear But uh
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  And then still though you were still away from the kitchen. See what I mean? Because then ya ya know the kitchen the uh the cabinets came down on this side it was just a blank wall had some ya know old Spanish design thing there and and a little place where you could sit and eat ya know and the wife can hand ya stuff through Uh and then but to go into the kitchen you just kinda had to go around that little ya know that little bar-type area.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Uh. Don't mean a bar like an alcoholic bar but I mean a like you know just a bar that you eat on. Uh and the reason I did that was I said okay if somebody comes over ya know? I don't like them having to sit there and talk ya know and sit at the table ya know when you're right over there three feet away ya know dropping a hamburger on the floor. Ya know? I I just don't like it I worked in a cafe I know how it is I fed a lot of not a lot of people probably in my lifetime ten hamburgers I dropped on the floor. {NS} Picked 'em up. Threw 'em back ya know on the grill put 'em back on there ya know? As long as they didn't have a hair on them they were alright you know what I mean? {NW} Uh
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  Yeah. But so ya know I did it that way and then I said well one of these days ya know when the kids they get grown they bring people over to have a good time you know? I said I don't like doors either. So I fixed sliding doors so that whenever you came into the house and if and if the den looked like hell which they will sometimes you can slide that door too see? And it'd look like the wall. And you set 'em down in the in the uh living room which a lot of people back in the old days would have called a parlor because it was the the fancy couch. I don't mean fancy in the sense of expensive but you know the rose floral design and this kind of thing you know the kids don't get on it you know? So uh I liked it that way. And from the other side if you were in the den you pull that too it looked just like the uh paneling you know just had a little indention there.
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  And and uh to put the bedrooms back at the back so uh like I said I said well look one of these days I get to be an old man I don't want them over here playing Rod Stewart Records you know? Or whoever the star is you know in nineteen ninety. Uh I don't want to hear him in there ya know raising hell having a big time all night. I said I'm gonna get back here. And we'll insulate this thing and and scoot this room back so that I can go to sleep and they can sit in there and play records all night. Ya know? Or whatever it. Eh. They may be flying airplanes on the floor by the time ya know Whatever they're doing then they can do it. They won't be bugging me. {NW} And so that was the reason that was the reason that it was uh designed like it was and you can see there that the the garage see this is what you're looking at at the front. These had those um pipe-looking things hanging out. Looked like ya know #1 the Spanish fort you know the hacienda type thing. #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah. Yeah right. Sure. #
533:  Okay and I said well if we ever need to uh to build more onto it we can build back this way or over here and never affect the original look of the house from the front see because you know it looks like garbage when you got a house that you built onto you and you have to use the same brick but the brick it faded and this kind of stuff. {X} That's the that's the reason for that. {NS} And uh this guy came along and said I bet you wouldn't take fifty thousand dollars for it would you? And I said yeah.
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  And so he's got it and I ain't ya know. But anyway.
Interviewer:  Are you planning on building?
533:  Yes something. Uh it won't be that I have uh I learned a lesson from that I think. Well I like it and and really and lotta lotta cases I wish that I was still in it. Um but I really don't I I want to go back to a to a basic simple dwelling. Ya know and we talk about this oh I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna build something. And it may look like a log cabin on the outside I haven't really decided yet but on the inside there's not gonna be any of this dining room living room den stuff it's gonna be a room. Ya know? Because of the family atmosphere that it creates. See I se- I separated too much here. Ya know of activity. I mean so what if uh if the kids uh are ya know playing ball and picking their nose on the floor sitting over there ya know five feet away from the table when you got ya know Bob Carol and Ted and Alice over and eating a steak with you ya know? I didn't mean that to be ya know {D: the rib} but I mean {NW} Ya know friends. Whoever. Uh because you know they got kids too usually and uh you know what? That adds a lot to it. I mean ya know that's family that's the way I am. There's no point trying to ya know be something else. So anyway the next one I build it'll have uh probably three bedrooms two maybe three bathrooms 'cause I got a boy and a girl and a wife and a me. Ya know you never can get in a bathroom.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  And uh and uh and a two-car garage and uh you know a patio and crap that's that's all you need. Ya know? So anyway that's that's what I'll do next time.
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  Eh.
Interviewer:  #1 When it comes over. #
533:  #2 Oh yeah yeah # I'm sure it will thank you.
Interviewer:  Okay we can get into #1 those. #
533:  #2 Did you find any # words there that I use funny?
Interviewer:  I was just no I was just jotting down some things.
533:  I saw that greasy now
Interviewer:  #1 Right. That's pronunciation. #
533:  #2 Greasy, you know? # I had a friend. We used to call him greasy. Ya know?
Interviewer:  {NW} Okay. We can uh start these uh urban questions now.
533:  #1 Okay. Right. #
Interviewer:  #2 I was telling you about. # Some of these that have to do with a particular city probably won't apply. in a place uh the size of Houston but I just want to ask them for the record.
533:  Okay. Sure.
Interviewer:  Okay. Do people around here refer to sections of the town like North North Houston North side anything like that?
533:  They're they're getting to a little bit of that now with uh with ya know new new editions. Branch banks you know the North Gate Branch. This kind of thing you know and uh But mostly it's not North Houston and South Houston or West Whitton. Around here it's mostly I live South of town.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Or North of town.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Ya know or out West of town. Or out East of town. I don't know why but around here it's still up North down South out West and out East.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  And um that's uh I guess maybe that answers it there is.
Interviewer:  Okay. What about uh are there neighborhoods in Houston that you can identify? uh as wealthy?
533:  #1 Sure. Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 Or less well-to-do? #
533:  Sure. Uh we've gotten away from uh from talking about the quarters. Ya know. If you'll pardon the French uh you know I mean back in the old days there was nigger quarters. Ya know? And that's where the black people in town lived. I mean you you know that's where they lived. And of course you know we've upgraded a lot of that. And um there's about three sections uh I mean uh well there's a there's a part of town uh nice housing area uh that a lot of black people live in in the South East part of Houston There's also uh must be twenty-five or thirty new houses. that's uh primarily black. Uh North East of town and then one Northwest. Ya know I say Northwest of town. I mean it's in town but it's in the Northeast quadrant or whatever you know. And one uh down around the middle school down in there. So you know it's it's really not as as divided up as it once was whenever it was ya know uh the quarters.
Interviewer:  Yeah. I see. Did you say that one area you could identify as well-to-do black?
533:  No just well-to-do.
Interviewer:  Just well.
533:  And then some black yeah right.
Interviewer:  Is there anything like that well-to-do black area?
533:  Well uh not really uh A lot of the blacks around here are uh ya know factory workers and all so I mean they're ya know on par as far as uh standard of living with uh a lot of other people now. Uh I was telling you about that song and I don't even remember if it was on tape or not ya know about the why don't we get black together a lot of people get galled if you'll try to figure that one out. It galls me
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  and it galls a lot of people that uh you know some of these um and there's whites that do the same thing But they you know they work in a factory you know. Basic minimum wage Barely making anything you know hundred and twenty-five thirty bucks a week Uh but uh ya know they got house full of younguns. And um They uh the wife draws welfare. The kids get free school lunches. Uh they have a government subsidy house wherein they pay a certain percent of their income for the house payment you know for a hundred and ten years. {NW} I know someone's got a house their payment runs eighteen twenty-two thirty bucks a month you know this kind of stuff. They get assistance from the federal government on their light uh their power bills because you know the power bill is inflation area and nobody can pay it. Uh they also get food stamps. From the welfare department to buy their food and and in many cases uh I'll make a good salary uh here but uh above average for this area. Well above average but uh you go to a grocery store and you see some of these particular groups that I'm speaking of now uh with you know steaks upon steaks upon steaks you know and just gobs of great foods coming out of there you know and and I got the bare minimums.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  You know and uh I know surely that I must uh think more of my family than they do of theirs because I I try to ya know I spend more time with them and not out in the street. But anyway this uh
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  So
Interviewer:  Galled is a good adjective.
533:  Yeah well it does. It just galls hell out of me if you ya know pardon the French uh but that happens. And this is the same people that I was talking about on taxes awhile ago they ya know
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  They're they're not paying uh their fair share of taxes and you know they they ride around they keep their Cadillacs clean and me I gotta you know uh a Grand Prix out there that uh that a black owned before I did.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Ya know and it's it's uh rusty and uh nasty and dirty but it's all I can handle man I I can't I can't do like I used to and go buy you know a new Oldsmobile every year. Um back when I was young and dumb and didn't know the difference. But anyway yeah there are there are sections of town that you can tell um you know uh who lives there what type of what category
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Uh I'm speaking economically. What economic category of people yes.
Interviewer:  What about re- uh middle class residential areas?
533:  Uh there's several of those. Ya know which you would call your middle income Americans. Uh {NS} Uh several of those areas. And you can tell them too. They're nice they're clean they're they're close to the schools ya know this type thing and um um close to the major areas.
Interviewer:  Could you name off some streets?
533:  Well South Wood Subdivision is what one of them started out to be and uh this one started like in the late fifties and early sixties and um it's um on uh basically Starkville Street which is the same street the school is on. Uh the elementary and the high school Not the middle school it's somewhere else the middle school is now what the used to be the black school you know. But um. And uh You know off Starkville Street down Carol Drive which is where {NS} this house was of mine.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Um Woodland Circle. Evans Drive. Uh that area.
Interviewer:  Any that you would call lower class neighborhoods?
533:  Well let's see. Yeah right uh Surveyor Street over ya know right in the midst of the factories and things like this you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Um basically though my thinking on that anybody that lives in a place like that now simply does not want to do any better. As my daddy would say they don't give a damn.
Interviewer:  I see.
533:  They just sorry.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Because uh I mean we got twenty something industries in a town of uh in a county of sixteen thousand people. We must have forty industries.
Interviewer:  How did uh how did that happen? #1 Why is this area industrialized? #
533:  #2 Just uh # Just because it's a good area to be from you know what I mean?
Interviewer:  Was it a cheap labor force?
533:  Well yes that and and plenty of it and a good location see highway fifteen runs from one end of the state to the Gulf coast ya know. Runs from Tennessee line and go highway eight goes from uh the Mississippi River to the Alabama line. We got the good railroads here you know? And it's just a it's just a good area.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  People are willing to work. {NW} For the most part. {NW} The workforce anyway. Is willing to work. So uh you know people that live in those areas uh they just are destined to be there because they wanna be. They they have no desire
Interviewer:  Mm.
533:  Uh either that or just rather spend their money on something besides living.
Interviewer:  {NW} Is there a black business district? #1 um #
533:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  Like
533:  No. Not really. No I know what you're talking about like in the delta of Mississippi they have uh there's there's lots of different dis- because you have the Chinamans. Over there you know as they call 'em. And you'll have the Chinamans area and then you'll have the um Uh the black area where you know the blacks go and buy and the blacks run the stores you know? And you'll have the the middle class and then you'll also have some places uh some of the Eisenbergs and Rosenbergs and things like that where you know a plantation owner's wife buys her stuff. {NW} But around here you don't have much of that. Uh very few black businesses Uh at all. And even so they're small. There's some independent contractors and things like this around here but you know as far as black business Zero.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  You know or almost nil anyway.
Interviewer:  We've been talking mostly in terms of black and white. Are there any other ethnic groups at all?
533:  Not not right here. In in Northeast Mississippi. Now a few miles South of here you got Choctaw Indians. But that's basically reservation and as I said over in the delta you got you know some you know Chinese. You know and this kind of thing. And uh the further South you go you get you know a few Spaniards. Uh you know a few French. But around here it's basically black and white. Really is. And we get along just fine. Everybody around here gets along fine. The blacks and whites. The only time there's ever a problem is whenever some glory-seeking idiot comes in from somewhere else. And uh you know and creates something.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Uh there's a big smell going on now in the town of Tupelo that started out because two policemen over there were accused of beating a black man while he was in jail. Okay. Well beating a man while he was in jail. First they didn't even tell he was a black. Personally I've got nothing against that. Because if my brother or my daddy gets drunk and goes out somewhere and raises hell which they won't because if they do I'll beat their brains out. But I mean uh if they did and then if somebody took 'em to jail trying to restore order and treat 'em like a human being and they continue to disobey and raise hell slap him naked. And straighten him out. That's what he would do to me. And uh So anyway but anyway this thing started you know and so the blacks started protesting The blacks in Tupelo did not protest. Your big wigs came in from somewhere else. It goes back just like it was in the in the um Civil War days to an extent you got the the scalawags you know all this you know. So the big wigs they come in They drive their Lincoln Continentals down you know from wherever. Or up from wherever. And they start you know poking the fingers and such Hey look what he did to my brother ya know and they get out making speeches and uh and so uh after that they you know they they were saying they were protesting because they wanted the men removed from the police force. Period. Okay? So cool man they moved him from the police force and put him on the fire department. So next they started raising hell about get him off the city pay roll. So they got 'em off the city pay roll. Put the two guys out of business. Put 'em out in the street. I mean I don't know ran 'em off. Whatever they did. So then after they accomplished that the blacks are still protesting and when you say why they say uh it's an economic boycott. We want more blacks hired in this area. Well I challenge you to go look and count it up and it's uh basically thirty percent black area and it'll probably figure better than thirty percent. and plummet. And uh and the people hire blacks every day and just like they do whites there's blacks and whites both and and they they'll work a couple of weeks and quit. Just long enough to draw unemployment. Or to say well I tried to work over at {D: Boy} but I just couldn't do that ya know? And uh they you know just {NS} Like that and so now they're they're protesting uh something else I can't even think now what it is.
Interviewer:  #1 There was something to do with the Klan you know #
533:  #2 But it # Well okay but see. See the Klan see the Klan has to show their face see. To save face you know I mean this is the South ya know and hey whoopee whoopee ya know So the Klan comes in and burns a cross and they have a peaceful meeting but it's not ya know the Klan around here ya know I don't know a soul that's in the Klan. And I know everybody. Around here. And I I do not know one that is in the Klan and I know that if a lot of them that if they were I'd know about it. But I don't know anybody that is specifically I mean any of my you might say neighbors you know I'd say within a in a five or ten mile area that are Klan members but the Klan men that came were from Louisiana. The Imperial Wizard see. He came from Louisiana. And he raises you know hell over here. Ya know? {X} No problem. No trouble. It's a peaceful you know protest. But none the less he's there see and it makes us all look like dummies to the rest of the world. And these uh the black group that came in they're not from here. They are not from here they've come here from somewhere else. And okay these uh and and a lot of it is personal economics. Because For- you know Ford Foundation and people like this give money to to the United League of North Mississippi to promote better racial relationships. Okay? But and I I you know I can't document this and if you ever print this you know I'd be in jail I'm sure.
Interviewer:  Don't worry 'bout it.
533:  But I mean uh we're just talking you know buddies here {NW} These guys are gonna take a lot of that money and go buy that Lincoln Continental with. They're getting all the publicity. You know this one spokesman and I'm not just speaking of the case in Tupelo I'm speaking of any case you wanna talk about of this nature that has happened around here. Okay? One somebody gets all the publicity. Just like {NS} You know? He gets all the publicity. Uh we had it happen uh back in uh the early sixties whenever uh uh a gentleman by the name of {NS} I don't even remember now. I was just a kid then. But anyway he died. Fighting for Civil Rights. Whether or not he was uh shot by a policeman I don't know. But if he was shot by a policeman you can bet that he probably just threw a bomb into somebody's store you know? But anyway his brother {NS} jumped on the bandwagon. And uh you know just uh you know leading the protest marches and all this stuff and all this stuff just kept on and on and all time {NS} was in the news for about seven or eight years there. Every day. Every time you turned around. Well he was elected the first black mayor in Mississippi in the town of Fayette. The city of Fayette which is a uh a Houston would make it look like a you know a big fat zero because ya know it's nothing there. I mean it's it's like Vardaman. Ya know it's maybe six hundred maybe a thousand people okay? Maybe. {NW} And it's in a solid black area. There may be five ten percent whites there. Just roughly guessing. I've driven through it once. But now see {NS} was a nobody at the time that he started riding the waves of fame and protest but now he he's the mayor of the town he owns the shopping center the car wash the service station. I'm talking about the main ones. The hotel. Okay?
Interviewer:  Goodness gracious.
533:  And ya know it's his.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  And not to mention I don't know what else you know. There's something else there. Like a community center. That he owns. See? Okay he owns all of this. He's run for governor. He' has run for representative he's run for this. Because he got all of this free publicity. And this is what I told a black guy a friend of mine the other day. I said you watch I said you and I will live long enough to see these dudes over here do the same thing. See. National exposure man. You couldn't ask for it better. I mean it's just like Ted Kennedy.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Now he don't have to do anything good or bad and even if he does it'll be overlooked because he's a Kennedy and it's the same way with this type thing down here. To me that's all it is because we all can work out our problems by ourselves. Nobody goes out treating anybody bad. Uh I mean your civil rights stop when you infringe upon mine. And uh I mean uh that's just the way I look at it. And uh I I'm I'm a redneck basically. Uh I think that if if Ya know it it caused national they'd called the National Guard in and and uh President Carter probably come down and give us {D: one of them there} speeches like he does ya know?
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  Jimmy Carter?
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  Um
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  But if you just go over there with about five twelve gauge shotguns and just line yourself around the city and shoot out in the crowd and probably hurt nobody but by God everybody'd go home.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  And you wouldn't have any more protest. Anyway I believe in an eye for an eye you know
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  I think that uh I believe maybe it was Thomas Jefferson that said uh {NW} You'll you'll lose the whole thing whenever you start sacrificing liberty for justice. #1 Yeah #
Interviewer:  #2 I think the whole system # could stand to help inject #1 some common sense #
533:  #2 Yeah. Yeah. # Well I do too ya know we got too many judges up there. And I'm not knocking them just because they're eighty-five years old but I don't think any one man in any capacity except Jesus Christ and he's not a man anymore has uh should be able to say okay ya know everybody in Georgia Alabama and Mississippi you can't do this because I say so The president can't override it the ya know the congress won't or can't Uh I just don't like it. And uh because of things like that are going on around here now we find our find ourselves under a bunch of crazy laws of the civil rights act as enacted in nineteen sixty-four that you know Like Pontiac, Michigan you remember the the fracas they had up there a few years ago about busing? You know and making the blacks go to the white schools and whites go to the black schools? We were sitting down here going God #1 What's the big problem you know? #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  #1 Y'all came down here and laughed at us you know? #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  #1 John Chancellor came to Greenwood, Mississippi you know and made a big deal #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  you know and you came down here and and and and dug up our graveyards #1 Just to make prove point you know? #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} # Yeah.
533:  And I said hey we're fine and y'all are up there protesting you know? #1 Eh so you know it it was funny and it still is funny you know #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  to think that those people have shoved it right down our epiglottis you know and and uh and then they're up there thinking {X}
Interviewer:  {NW} {X}
533:  That's the only difference.
Interviewer:  Alright. Uh
533:  But uh how in the world did we get off on that?
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  We got off on #1 the uh ethnic groups #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah. Right. # The neighborhood. Well what about the the oldest businesses? Where are they located?
533:  Yeah you mean in Houston?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Uh well you know you've had a generation turnover. Uh in the last ten years. But the the oldest businesses are basically located in still in downtown Houston.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Ya know. Downtown. Because we hadn't yet uh mall-ized. Ya know? Larry Gross had a song. We've Been Mall-ed. You know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Uh well we hadn't been malled around here yet so
Interviewer:  I see.
533:  So it's basically still downtown. Around. On the square. See the courthouse is on the square and they call it the court square. And uh you know kids on on the weekends they ride around the square you know?
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Um it's kinda like sun riding down the strip you know? And uh so it's basically {X} oriented around downtown.
Interviewer:  You said that's where the banks are located too?
533:  Mm-hmm. Right. Main banks. You're uh drug stores you know this kind of thing. They're all. We got. What? Three corner drug stores in town you know? The old corner drug store.
Interviewer:  Yeah. {NS}
533:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Alright. Okay. We'll just let this tape #1 run and we'll call #
533:  #2 yeah #
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  #1 Doesn't matter. Don't matter. Don't matter. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Okay. Uh What uh are there any kind of local landmarks around here with any historical significance?
533:  Well there are there are quite a few and for some reason uh we haven't had the foresight or even the hindsight in a lot of situations to uh to captivate an audience with them uh ya know there's Indian mounds around here. Uh Hernando de Soto's men uh when they were coming across uh to discover the Mississippi and all uh you know they spent the night up here you know uh well matter of fact I own a piece of land where some of them are buried you know one that died. You can dig down in the ground you know and find the uh you know the old pieces of metal and stuff.
Interviewer:  These mounds on private property?
533:  Uh there are some mounds on private property around here but the particular ones that I'm talking about now are in the hands of the Federal government on the Natchez Trace Parkway And they're just there's just a sign there see they don't really promote it you know. Uh it's just there.
Interviewer:  Nothing like you ever been to Moundville, Alabama?
533:  Mm-hmm. And uh there's some in Tennessee also. Ya know it's a big deal you know and private enterprise all around you know selling Davy Crockett hats and uh you know arrow heads really you know?
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  #1 Well but I mean, but that's you know free enterprise #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
533:  that's that's the way it oughta be. Um Andrew Jackson when he was coming to fight the Battle of New Orleans or New Orleans
Interviewer:  Right
533:  as they sing it in the song uh spent the night in a brick hut that was built by the Indians about eight miles through the woods up here. In the northeast. Northeast of where we are right now. And everybody knows it. And there's a natural spring there. Part of the old brick hut see back then the one of the presidents or somebody sent a some men down to teach Indians how to make bricks
Interviewer:  Hmm.
533:  And the uh Chickasaws were the first some of the first ones to catch on and and to do this and they built a place there and that's where Jackson stayed.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  And uh you know Eh I could get my boss to run ya up there and show it to you. A matter of fact it was on uh it's you know a few hundred yards behind where he grew up. And uh it's on more or less on the old Natchez Trace. You know the old horse trail Natchez Trace. But uh nobody's really captivated on 'em. Ya know I guess If that answers your question that gives you both a yes and a no I guess. I sound like a political lawyer.
Interviewer:  {NW}
533:  But um
Interviewer:  Any parks around here?
533:  Um. State Parks? No not right in this area. Mm-mm.
Interviewer:  Say if an airplane were going to make a landing around here. Where would it land?
533:  Now we have a we have a nice airport for a small town like Houston. Houston Municipal Airport. Three thousand foot runway. It can handle a Lear jet if the Lear jet uh pilot knows what he's doing real well. Matter of fact one has landed out there before. Uh Tupelo has uh got a pretty fair airport but it's uh they run commercial flights in there but it's a non-controlled field. which well that means that they don't have a control tower.
Interviewer:  Oh.
533:  Eh?
Interviewer:  Mm. I didn't know that was done.
533:  What? #1 Non-controlled field? Yup. Yes sir it sure is. #
Interviewer:  #2 Non-controlled. #
533:  #1 Columbus #
Interviewer:  #2 Landing directions or anything? #
533:  Well yeah you know you can say ya know Tupelo UNICOM
Interviewer:  #1 UNICOM? #
533:  #2 Yeah. You know. When I fly # You know I say Tupelo UNICOM Cessna one six five nine Quebec uh five miles out uh twenty-five hundred feet. Uh you know uh give me an advisory.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  And a guy'll come back on {NW} Uh ain't no other planes 'round here. You alright.
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
533:  #2 We using three. You know and uh # But it's modern. I mean you know it's it's modern to the extent that I mean I'm not uh meaning to make it sound like it's backward because it's it's super modern it's beautiful it's nice but it's just a non-controlled air field. It does not have a control tower. Columbus does. But uh you come up here and uh you can call Memphis uh after about ten or fifteen miles be on Memphis radar see.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  You know. So anyway but they can land in Houston I mean you know if you wanted to bring over a bunch of business men. You know no problem. They come in here all the time.
Interviewer:  I got an airplane story I'll have to tell you.
533:  Uh.
Interviewer:  Uh if you were coming into say uh Jackson, Mississippi
533:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  What would you probably be traveling on?
533:  Uh from here or the Natchez Trace? See the Natchez Trace went straight into Jackson It's uh you know you can catch it about four miles out of town here. Or you can go south thirteen miles and catch it again because it runs south for a while and then east for a while.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  And I mean south awhile and west awhile. But I can go down I go down the Trace.
Interviewer:  What would you call something like fifty-five?
533:  Uh. The interstate.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  The interstate.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Uh ya know so-and-so went to Memphis. How'd y'all go? On the interstate. Because that's the only one. Right.
533:  Um There's a lot of them over here that oughta be. Highway forty-five should be. Highway fifteen should be. It goes from uh you can get on this highway right out here and go to Jackson, Tennessee in two hours. Ya know? Or I can make it a little faster than that. But ya know I'm not supposed to. Uh and it runs to Gulfport, Mississippi. Hell it oughta be a thoroughfare it oughta be a four-lane you know? And it would be parallel to fifty-five. Take some of the load off that. Highway eight runs from the Alabama line to the Mississippi River. It you know really uh the only other one uh you got you know twenty down around Jackson you know and you got forty-nine at Vicks uh Pattysburg and fifty-nine at Meridian and things like this but around here it's the interstate you know? Fifty-five that's what you're talking about.
Interviewer:  You ever hear people say superhighway?
533:  No. Or turnpike. No.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Never do. I heard an old black lady one time call highway eight interstate eight. You know
Interviewer:  {NW} Whatever.
533:  Ya know because I thought interstate was a four-lane ya know?
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  There was an old guy and his name was Eddie Conettus and uh oh his his term was like when uh you know say some federal commissioner or somebody that you knew had gotten to be such a uh high faluter you know that that you never saw him anymore or that you know he wouldn't drive out to your house because you lived on a rock road and he had a Cadillac. He'd say hell he's done gone four-lane. you know.
Interviewer:  {NW} Right.
533:  But he's the only guy I ever heard use that.
Interviewer:  Sure. What would you call a place along an interstate where you could stop and rest maybe go to the bathroom?
533:  Mm. Rest stop. Picnic area.
Interviewer:  Okay.
533:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Is there a
533:  Now a a road like that goes out to my mother and daddy's house they live on a on a gravel road. Rock road. dirt road actually is what we call it. Live on a dirt road. Uh but For instance the the road between here and Thorn is called a blacktop. It's a blacktop road. Actually what it is it's a paved road you know. It looks just like a highway only it's uh what they call actually uh the the legal definition is a low road. In other words a low weight limit on it ya know. Uh you know uh you can't not what you would call commercial. That's a farm-to-market road. That would be the term. That they'd use. You know. Everywhere in the southeast.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  Farm-to-market road. But uh we call it blacktop road. You know. We used to ride our bikes and mom would holler don't y'all get out on the blacktop. Ya know?
Interviewer:  Are there places in Mississippi when you cross the state line there may be a place where you could stop. Get tourist information.
533:  #1 No. No. #
Interviewer:  #2 That kind of thing. #
533:  Mm-mm. No sir. Uh there's uh usually a sign and one picnic table and a garbage can. You know it says welcome to Mississippi. Mississippi welcomes you. You know uh Alabama's not much different. They got one that says George Wallace smiling up there you know it says George Wallace welcomes you to Alabama.
Interviewer:  {X}
533:  I think George Wallace is a great man. He's uh he he's matured a lot. And um he's a good politician. #1 You feel like #
Interviewer:  #2 I was wondering if he was gonna run for senator. #
533:  Uh you know what he could have done it would really it would have turned a lot of wheels I was thinking maybe and really in the back of my mind hoping that he would uh appoint himself to fill that unexpired term which would make Jere Beasley governor and save him a lot of sweat. and all of this running see it'll make him a shoo-in for the you know. But anyway that's that's in another statement.
Interviewer:  Think he's already pointed out why.
533:  Uh right uh-huh right well that's I guess kind of a courtesy. You know she wanted it. He more or less had to.
Interviewer:  What so you don't have things #1 signs? #
533:  #2 No. Tourist information center? # No.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called a welcome station?
533:  Only in Texas. {NW} Uh Tennessee has uh Tennessee information. Ya know. Whenever you cross a line there they got 'em you know? But around here? No.
Interviewer:  Okay. What about the things that're painted right down the middle of the road to keep you in your own lane?
533:  Stripes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Center stripe.
Interviewer:  Okay.
533:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Now say I'm on an #1 interstate #
533:  #2 or yellow line. #
Interviewer:  Yellow line?
533:  Yeah. {NW} Don't get across the yellow line.
Interviewer:  Do not cross the line right? The center line? #1 Or whatever. #
533:  #2 Yeah. Yeah. #
Interviewer:  What about say on the interstate when you've got uh traffic flowing in both directions? Maybe you've got oh uh concrete sort of thing in the middle or grass or some sort of metal? #1 Steel? What would you call that sort of thing? #
533:  #2 Mm. #
Interviewer:  #1 Right smack #
533:  #2 What the uh part in the middle? # Uh median. Ya know. Um Like I said around here people weren't associated with that kind of thing. For you know median you just saw it on the sign said well that's a median you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
533:  Um Boulevard never used around here. You know the word boulevard.
Interviewer:  Does that mean anything at all to you?
533:  Well it does uh since uh you know in my lifetime I've been to New Orleans I've been to Hollywood I've seen what a boulevard is you know uh But you know I just done call it a street hell it's a street I mean you know uh
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Um
Interviewer:  What exactly is a boulevard in uh
533:  #1 Oh to my my conception of a boulevard? #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah. Yeah. #
533:  A wide street with something in the middle. You know what I mean? Uh
Interviewer:  Sure.
533:  You know like a What's the street? Well St. Charles. New Orleans. You know they got the trolley in the middle.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  And to me uh that's that was a boulevard. You know something in the middle. A lot of times it's dressed up a little bit.
Interviewer:  Well say if you were driving along the interstate and you have to get some gas or something like that what do you call the thing that you get off the interstate on?
Auxiliary:  By golly!
Interviewer:  You swing off #1 to the right. #
533:  #2 Oh exit? #
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  Uh just you know an exit.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
533:  A lot of people call it ramps.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Off-ramps.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  That's a that's a little bit more four-lane term I guess.
Interviewer:  Okay.
533:  {X}
Interviewer:  And what about getting back on?
533:  Just entrance.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Okay. Um are there any streets in town that you can only get on or get off in a particular place? Uh that traffic flows only one direction down?
533:  No. No. {NS} Uh because of the fact that eight and fifteen are two major thoroughfares and they cross in downtown Houston they they pretty well keep traffic flowing in all directions see because because of that. Now Calhoun City {NW} and Bruce, Mississippi is two cities two towns over in Calhoun County on their court square you can only go one direction. You come up you know and there's a stop sign and you gotta go all the way around if you're coming to the store right here on you left see.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  That's crazy. {NW}
Interviewer:  What are the main streets in town? Well highway fifteen is uh Jackson Street. North Jackson and South Jackson and the north and south designation starts at highway eight which is Madison. Mm-hmm.
533:  You know it goes east and west and fifteen goes or Jackson goes you know north and south
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  And uh they're uh basically around here it's you know uh Jackson and Madison are the two main drags. You got Jefferson and Monroe. Uh then on down you got Huddleston. I don't know where they got that. He wasn't a president. And uh Pontotoc Street. Um then on out now that we've expanded you've got Westpoint Road. Uh Old Highway Three Eighty-Nine South. You know. Which even before that was Old Highway Fifteen South.
Interviewer:  Mm.
533:  And that's a shortcut to Westpoint. Old Highway Eight uh runs out through the country. They call it Aberdeen Road. Because used to that was the way you went to Aberdeen. Um It's a. But Jackson and Madison are your main your main drags.
Interviewer:  Uh.
533:  And Jefferson.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about some of the streets in your neighborhood?
533:  Uh what do you mean the names of them?
Interviewer:  Sure.
533:  Well you know there's typical stuff. Walker Drive. Uh Carol Drive uh. Woodland Circle. Um Evans Drive. You've got uh Bell Fountain Street. You know things like this. Just typical stuff. And the other the other residential areas uh it's about the same way. You know. You got Oak Lane drive. Meadow Lane. Um Hillcrest Drive. Susan Drive. Which was named after uh the guy that owned the land originally. His daughter no doubt.
Interviewer:  Right.
533:  And uh you just you don't have any uh Escatawpa Boulevards. Or anything like that around here you know. Stone Mountain Road.
Interviewer:  Right. I doubt if you have a place like this around here but in some towns uh a place you have a railroad you wanna cross.
533:  Mm.
Interviewer:  So maybe you have the tracks going over the streets so you could go right on through. Did you ever heard that called anything in particular?
533:  Trestle.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
533:  Mm-hmm. Trestle. Uh {C: tape distorted} The uh railroad trestle was usually um around here it's like a bridge. The railroad {C: tape distorted} you know is a bridge in itself. You know and it goes over a creek or something you know. {C: tape distorted} We used to play down around {C: tape distorted} you know the trestle. {C: tape distorted}
Interviewer:  Right. Does overpass underpass?
533:  #1 Uh underpass #
Interviewer:  #2 uh mean #