Interviewer: {NS} I'll just watch to see how your voice is recording. 543: One two three. Interviewer: Right. Just your ordinary voice. 543: Yeah. {NW} Interviewer: Okay. 543: One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six. Seven. Eight. Nine. {NS} Ten. Eleven. Twelve. Thirteen. Fourteen. Fifteen. Sixteen. Seventeen. Eighteen. Nineteen. Twenty. Interviewer: {NS} Okay {NW} And uh would you give me the days of the week. Uh. Just Sunday Monday so on. 543: Sunday. Interviewer: {NW} 543: Monday. Tuesday. Wednesday. Thursday. Friday. Saturday. Interviewer: Okay and the months of the year. January. 543: January. February. March. April. May. June. July. August. September. October. November. December. Interviewer: Okay fine I think we can. We can forget about this now And uh. 543: {NW} Interviewer: Uh I'd like to ask you uh About your Your birthplace you were born here in the county. 543: Yes and I was born here in uh Lafayette county. Interviewer: And uh how far out? 543: About sixteen miles out in the country. from Oxford Interviewer: Which way is that? 543: East of Oxford. Interviewer: East. 543: Right. In a little place called Lafayette Spring. Interviewer: Oh yes. {X} Yes I've been through there. Um. And your mother, where was she born? 543: She was born in Lafayette county. Interviewer: {NW} 543: Yes it's south of Oxford. Interviewer: I see, and your father was from Lafayette Springs or? 543: Yes I see where ye. Uh. That's where we they married and move out end of this spring. My daddy was a, you know, he. Was born up uh {NS} Uh, west of Oxford. About twelve miles. {NS} So we moved out to Lafayette Springs and that's where we all was raised up there. {X} Interviewer: I see. And uh, did your mother and father go to school very much um? 543: Well uh. {NS} #1 They went some but not too much cause they didn't get no education much because they didn't have a chance to go to school. # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # Mm-hmm. {X} And uh. Your mother was a, did she work out or was she a housewife? 543: She was a just a housewife. Interviewer: And your father? 543: He just a farmer, yes. Interviewer: And uh, your mother's parents, did you know them? 543: Yes sir I knew #1 I knew them yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 is that right # 543: And {X}. Yes sir. Interviewer: Where did they come from? 543: They was just raised right around here. Just right around Oxford all that all of us just raised up right around close to Oxford you know, some some in maybe south of Oxford seven or eight miles. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir and this Interviewer: And did they have any education very much? 543: No sir not too much, no sir. No sir. Interviewer: And uh, were they farmers? 543: Yes sir all farmers. Right. Interviewer: And on your father's side, did you know his parents? 543: Yes I did just farmers. Farmers. They didn't have no education, no. {NW} just little Interviewer: I see and uh they came from uh this. Did your father's parents come from here? 543: Yes sir, except about my. Grandfather, he was a slave. Interviewer: I see uh, in this area? In the county. 543: Uh well. Yes sir, you know. around. yes that's all anyone know just that he was in this county you see, slave, back- back in slavery time my grandfather And them my father, he did {D: you know just happened up here} you know and just still been round here all the time. Interviewer: I see. And your wife uh, is she living? 543: Yes sir, my wife's living. sh- Interviewer: How old is she? 543: She's sixty-two years old. Interviewer: And, what is her religion? Uh. Is she, Does she go to church, does she have uh 543: yes she had go to church #1 she's a # Interviewer: #2 she # 543: regular church goer Interviewer: Here in Oxford? 543: Well, uh, it's a little church out in the country there, you know. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yeah so about Four and a half miles out of the country. Interviewer: #1 {X} # 543: #2 where we live # Uh pentecostal Interviewer: pentecostal 543: Yes a pentecostal Interviewer: And uh, her education, did she have a chance to go to school 543: #1 she uh # Interviewer: #2 school very much # 543: uh yes-no sir, she just went to a little rural school. She finished eighth grade. Interviewer: I see. And uh, do you and your wife have uh You go to uh clubs or uh you have any- 543: No sir nothing but church. Interviewer: Church. 543: Right. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Okay. And uh. You uh drive the school bus? 543: Yes sir, I drive the school bus. Interviewer: And uh, what did you used to do before you What are, what uh Did you farm or? 543: Yes I'm a farmer. Interviewer: Fine. 543: That's right yes. And you know, public work between crop times. Interviewer: I see. 543: Until uh the last few years then I had to quit stuff got so cheap you know couldn't make a living hardly. Small farmer. And then I had to quit and uh Get out in the public work {X} Interviewer: I bet you spent most of your life uh farming. 543: Oh yes sir, yes sir, sure, sure I spent it Interviewer: Okay now, I'd like uh have you describe. {NS} Something about the uh school days that you remember um You went to school out near where you live now? 543: Yes sir, out well well not it's way on out see, I moved up {D: closer to center} the last few years. Way out about sixteen miles out in the country. I went to a little wood school over there. Interviewer: Mm-hmm and you were telling me uh earlier about uh. How it was kinda hard for you to not look out the window? 543: Yes sir, sure, it's impossible to look out and not see the sun {D:with the shine}. Interviewer: {D: Alright} 543: Yes, it's either way the sun we can look out and tell about what time we was gonna turn out. Interviewer: I see. And about what time uh did your school {D: take up Monday to-}. 543: Well it took up at eight oh clock. And turned out at four. Interviewer: I see. 543: Of course there was a period, one hour between time. Interviewer: And would you uh Tell me did you ever. Did your mother ever send you to school and you just didn't get there? 543: No sir, I always went, I know to go. Interviewer: I see. What did they call it when you didn't? If some, some boy who was sent to school but didn't uh, went fishing instead, what would the, what would they call that? 543: Uh s-skipping class? Interviewer: Uh-huh, and what would happen to him? 543: Oh man, h-h-he wouldn't, he wouldn't want to skip it no more, his parents would tear him up. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yeah sir. That's right, back in them times they they didn't know better than to do that. Interviewer: And what uh, what would the parents do to him? 543: Oh man he'd double 'em plow lines up you know and man he would, he would work him over. And uh in 'em times, uh, if uh somebody else seen that you're uh doing something wrong they would tell on you. And lots of times they would whoop 'em for doing things like that. And that's just what their parents would want them to do. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir right, right. And they'd know better than to let the other parents know or see something wrong that they was doing. Interviewer: They all kind of worked together. 543: Yes right, right, that's right. Interviewer: That's a good idea. 543: Yes sir, yes sir. Interviewer: And uh, tell me something about your teachers. Were they women or men? 543: They mostly was uh, men. Course one woman taught {D: write smart}, but they mostly was men. And because they would have to {X} way back in the woods where you couldn't hardly get there in a wagon. Had to go walk or horseback. And this man would live out so far you know. out in the {D: rural} until he would ride a horse back. ride an old mule back and forth at the school. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes. Interviewer: Uh, what did you call the lady teacher uh if you ever say, Uh it's just a schoolteacher or schoolmarm or what do you call her? 543: Well she, she was a school teacher you know Miss, or whatever she what her name was. {D: I can't do it}. {B} Her name was {B}. And we would call her Miss {B}. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh what would she call you, her. Her student? 543: Students She called us her scholars, scholars is right. Her scholars, that's what we were called, scholars. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh. How were the grades? Uh how did you move from one grade to the other? Did you, did you {D: call them grades then} or how did you? 543: Yes sir we would call 'em grades then you know of course you know but uh Uh we would make a grade every year. {D: the sum} would make grades you know because they would let them stay there 'til they thought they was able to move on up. And I tell you too one thing, we didn't you know. Have no more {D: change}. We all didn't have books. We couldn't get books, our parents would have to buy the books and we couldn't get books to study. And we'd have to study with. first one or the other that had a book did up in that grade. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes and we would swap {D: about} {D: to this one} and he's studying this book and maybe this one had one kind of a book and the other one didn't and we'd just study with them. Interviewer: I see. Uh what was the uh. What was the uh class, the school like, what kind of furniture did you Did you have in it? 543: We had uh mostly solid blocks to sit on. Go out and cut a tree down and saw some blocks about tall enough to sit on. And probably go around to some old sawmill place and get a piece of plank to run from one block to the other and that would be the seats we'd sit on. Interviewer: I see, what would you work on? 543: Well sometimes they'd get an old, old Well this one little table in there but we we work on our laps Interviewer: Oh is that right? 543: Right. That's right. We'd hold our books in our lap, that's what we'd work on, no desks there. Interviewer: Ah, I see. Uh when did they first start to use the desks I wonder. 543: Oh, he, he, he'd passed on up for several years, several years. {D: I'm just remembering} just what year. But uh Interviewer: Did your children have desks? Uh. 543: They, they moved up on {X}. You know, uh, these little uh. Children sitting with the desk {D: on}. But that come on up here for the last few years, not many years ago. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. But your children would have had 'em. 543: Yes sir my children had these little desk {X}. Interviewer: And uh {NW} How did they talk about the uh Civil War, uh did they call it uh the war between the states, or what did they call it? {NS} 543: Well that's what they call it, between the states. They call it the war between the states, of course. Interviewer: And uh, and of course now, most people call it the. They still say that or? 543: No sir, they just says now that this is uh, you know, the war between. Um The Nations! Interviewer: I see. Uh-huh. Would, would they. They never talked, talked about, about the Civil War? Would they ever say that, uh when you were a student? 543: Back then yonder, the Civil War, well they didn't talk too much about that because we didn't know. So much about that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. But then, when they did talk about it, they said war between the states. 543: Right right, yes sir. Yes sir yes. Interviewer: {NS} Then uh Uh would you tell me uh Uh How People ever got to college, what How long would they- Go to that school and what was the next step and then what was, how would they go on to 543: #1 Well # Interviewer: #2 college? # 543: Th-th-they did it so when they would finish these what we would call eighth grade. Little school {D: out}. Probably they would uh. Them that could get a chance to get off they would go to a high grade school you know. But it wasn't many of them did it you know because uh for the last year they would uh go have to be, they would have to put they children out {D: they would able}. To board with somebody. {D: Or} room with somebody you know to go to school it was uh from a you know above the eighth grade. Up until the twelfth grade, you know. Interviewer: I would take money. 543: Yes sir right right, that's right, you know, there's lots of us didn't have it you know back that end to Even do that much. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 543: #2 They just had to # Quit and Go to sch- field, work. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: That's all. Interviewer: And then after that school. Uh you go to. 543: Well, I tell you what, just a few of them got into college. From their high high school. They went to just a college you know, some few got to go to the college. Wasn't many of them that was able to pay to go to these colleges. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: And then, uh. We didn't know to much about no university. Nothing. Interviewer: Did um. Uh. Did people regard uh Did people think that uh say the eighth grade made a pretty good education? 543: Yes, after they go out they, they went to {D: Macon}. They thought they were making a you know, pretty good education, yes. Interviewer: And, probably did, in fact. {NS} They, they really uh, they had uh. To apply themselves, and they probably did- 543: Sure sure sure, yes sir that's right, yes sir, yes sir. The made right {D: good} grades {D: then}. Interviewer: Uh, in town, {NS} What would a girl uh do {NS} If she didn't get married after she finished her education? Would she Were there, was there a chance to work in a hospital or uh. 543: No sir, no sir, no sir. Interviewer: Uh 543: They just had to sit at home. In this. Working the field, you know, yes, that, that's right. There's always work you know, if-if-if it's crop time you know, during the crop time And nothing else to do, why they just sit around if they didn't get married, old maid sitting around. Interviewer: Mm. Now uh what, what do girls mostly do? Around here 543: They moved up {D: to some now} and you know, and uh with some of 'em you know, they, they's uh babysitting And uh that's mostly all, maid. House maid you know. Interviewer: Did they ever work in hospitals or? 543: When I see them for the last few years. Some of them's got to going to working in hospitals you know. Interviewer: Do they go to school for that? 543: Yes sir, they have to go to school for that right yes. Interviewer: They they become a regular, uh. Uh they go to school and become a regular Nurse or? 543: Well yeah well uh nurse aide, yes sir, nurse aide. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: Go to school for this, the nurse aide. Yes. Interviewer: And do they uh Ever work for lawyers, say uh, typing and taking notes? 543: Well they hadn't till here right lately. Just right lately. They have {D: move into that place}. {NS} working somebody's working for lawyers. All this typing you know and different offices. Interviewer: What do they call 'em What what do they call 543: Secretaries. Interviewer: And that job 543: Yes sir, that's right, now that's happened lately. There's a few of 'em about, you know. Interviewer: Much more opportunity than um 543: Oh much much much more yes sir yes sir. Interviewer: And uh When {NW} When you would come home And uh you tell your parents something Uh That would surprise them. How would they, how would they express themselves {D: they say hoowa} Whoever {NW} Suppose you came home with some, some facts that uh That would surprise your parents. Uh They would say well. I'm proud of you. Who uh. Who taught you that, who learned you that, what would they say? 543: Oh well, they just go along, go along mostly you know. And see till they till they find out, what, it is the facts or something like that you see. {NS} Interviewer: Excuse me. {NS} {X} {X} Okay 543: Yes sir Yes sir Interviewer: And uh And then, when you were not in school as a boy, Would you tell me, some of the homemade things you used to play with uh. Uh did you ever have um. Board That would go up and down? 543: See-saw, yes sir, I made a many one. Interviewer: {NW} Is that right? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And, you'd say that the uh Those children are, are are what when they are doing this? Just See-sawing 543: See-sawing Interviewer: Uh-huh 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And did you ever have a um Plank on a pole And the plank would go around What did you call that? 543: {D: Well um} we would just mostly call them a see-saw you know and uh Oh well When we start around And like what we would do was We cut the monkey {X} When we start around. We did see-saws, see-saws. {D: and took the monkey down}. Interviewer: I see. 543: That's the way we was back then. Course I don't know what they would call it now. Interviewer: That's what I'm interested in. And Did you ever have the board on the, on a pole? That would go around, not up and down? 543: Oh I see. Interviewer: Go around. 543: No sir we didn't ever, didn't ever experience that ever. That's right no sir. Interviewer: Uh, did you ever hear a, people call it anything that's that uh. Did you ever hear of it uh sort of homemade. Just a homemade thing, board on a pole? You get two children on it as I understand and you push them. They go around pretty fast. 543: Right right. Yes sir that's right, oh, no we we we just uh. We call that mostly a see-saw. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: See-saw. Interviewer: And did you ever have a {NW} A limber plank on a. Fixed on two ends. And you get in the middle and jump on it? 543: Spring board? Interviewer: I see. And you just go up and down. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Like 543: We call that a spring. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir, yes sir spring. Interviewer: And uh Does the word flying Jenny 543: Flying Jenny Interviewer: Does that uh, does that sound familiar? 543: Think that's right, yes sir, yes sir That's right, that flying Jenny right. Interviewer: Sometimes they call it a Flying Dutchman sometimes a flying Jenny. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: But around here they said Jennies. 543: Yes sir that's right, that's right. That's a flying Jenny. Yes sir. Interviewer: And um When you just had two ropes down from a tree. And a seat on it And the kids go back and forth, what would you call that? 543: We call that a swing. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh, musical instruments you'd play uh. {X} 543: French harps Yes sir. Interviewer: Or if you go this way. 543: That's a Jew's harp. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And did uh Did you ever uh I suppose you didn't. Have a lot um of small toys uh Small things to play with, little guns and balls and dolls, and You know, the whole children, the whole family. Uh what would you call all of them together? Just uh. Your mother would say now pick up all your what? 543: Toys? Interviewer: Toys. 543: Yes sir, toys. Interviewer: Did you ever hear {D: play pretty}? 543: Play pretties? Back yonder yes sir they would, they would {X} some of them would call 'em toys of course. And some of them would call them play pretties. Get your play pretties and put them up. Interviewer: Is that right? 543: Right. Interviewer: And they were small. 543: Oh yes sir, and homemade. Interviewer: I see. 543: Oh they'd make some of them homemade. {X} yes sir. Interviewer: Could you mention some of them that you remember? Uh 543: Oh well, we-we-we'd make 'em little dolls, you know we just take the doll making you know. Even {D: down on top} of the little wagons we had. We make 'em homemade, we go out in {D: sources}. {D: Wheel} off a tree, saw a wheel down and saw a little wheels off of it you know and all And we bore a hole in that end, and we'd thrust a an axle and put 'em on just like a wagon. Put some nails down through there and get on. Make out with tongs and go in it and everything, just-just made everything. Interviewer: I see. #1 Yes yes sir # 543: #2 What did they sell? # Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh, when you went fishing, uh what would you use for bait? Um 543: We'd uh. We would uh get uh go out and dig each year old earthworms they're called. We dig in the ground of course you've seen like a We go out digging in the ground and get them earthworms we'd call 'em. And put on the hook. Interviewer: About how big are they? 543: Oh they's almost about like a Large {D: match stem} Interviewer: I see, real fat? 543: Yes sir, right right, yes sir. Some like three inches long, something like that. Interviewer: And uh did you ever use uh small fish uh? 543: Well we didn't use too much of 'em back then {D: they all tiny} But they using 'em now it look like. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: We would just use them old We didn't know enough about them fish that that's right Interviewer: What do they call 'em now? 543: Minnows Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir Interviewer: That's the real- 543: Yes sir, the little small fish right here. Interviewer: Uh did you have a a boat or anything that you could {D: wanna water in}? 543: No sir we didn't have them then. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: No sir. For the last uh {D: well, well} Was just a few {D: meats}. Homemade but they wouldn't get out in this big water much {D: would they}. Interviewer: Mm-hmm, what would they call 'em if they were homemade uh. Call them rowboat skips or 543: Just, just a boat, you know, that's a that's the boat. That's what they'd all call 'em then, you know, just a boat. Interviewer: {NW} Did they have a word for uh pushing the boat into the water off the land? 543: The dock. Interviewer: Just, uh a dock. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And if they get the boat off the dock in the water, they'd say let's what? 543: Um. Well, they call it a {X} {NS} {C: muttering} Interviewer: Well I was wondering, did they ever say launch? {D: launcher} or? 543: No sir, they didn't know that. Didn't know that name. Interviewer: That must come later. 543: Ah that's right, yes sir yes sir, that's right. Interviewer: And did you ever play {NW} A game with uh The uh things that you put on Horses' feet, to get them on 543: Oh yes sir, uh shoes, horseshoes. Interviewer: What would they call that game? 543: Uh, what they call a {D: pitchnew}. Interviewer: I guess pitching 543: Hang 'em round in a- yes sir. Uh, well we just call it pitching horseshoes you know, Hanging 'em around that {D: staff} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Pitching 'em, pitching 'em in the holes, something like that, you know. Interviewer: On the farm did you uh did you put your own horseshoes on or did you have to take them to some place? 543: Well uh, most of us would put 'em on ourselves. Interviewer: Would you explain how you do that? Um 543: Well, we'd get that horseshoe you know and uh. We would get it heated, put it in a little outfit and heat it you know, And take it and put it on the anvil and bend it where you put them caulks on it you know. And we'd get a {D: wrap} and we'd trim uh, draw a knife and trim the horse's feet off, smooth it off. Put that there you know, and look and see how it fits, and may need a little more angle. We'd get it and put it on the anvil and angle it till it fit just right. Then we'd put them nails in there you know Sorta bend the end of the nails {D: would only go in} so for and then come on out and then bend 'em back. Cut 'em off. Interviewer: And what were they come right out the uh 543: Hoof Yes sir Bend it and drive it on up until it come, it don't come out after a while. Makes a little crook on the end You start it in and you just learn how to make it come out the angle {X} on its hoof. Interviewer: Never knew that. 543: Why yes. Interviewer: So that's why um That's why you never would hurt the horse's feet actually, you. You'd drive it at an angle. 543: Yes sir right, at an angle Interviewer: You would drill it right up. 543: Straight up, {D: go plumb into the quick} Interviewer: I see. 543: Now he's he's got {D: right smart room} that hoof do. Before we get into the {D: quick}. Set your angle you learn to set your, bend it a little. {D: Put it} on that there horseshoe. Start it in and so after a while it gonna come out and it don't soon come out. You pull it back out and beat it a little more for it to come on out. Yes and clip it off then and mash it down. Interviewer: I never understood that uh, it sounds as if you'd hurt the horse but that's how you keep away from it. 543: Yes sir, yes sir that's right, sure, sure. Yes because that hoof has got {D: right smart a} In there before we get to the {D: quick}. And yes you set that nail up, you just keep on up until you get in the quick. Except it would come out after a little bit. Interviewer: Ah {D: seriously}? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And you just uh would shape it to fit the uh. 543: Yes sir, after the trim the foot down you know good what won't be too long not get it too, to the quick. Just trim it down a little {X}. Interviewer: And uh {NW} Did you play any games with balls? Say, like, baseball or anything like that? 543: Yes sir, we played baseball. That's right, yes. Yes sir we'd play baseball and a little basketball. Interviewer: Did you? 543: Yes sir, yes sir. Interviewer: And uh Uh Did you {NS} You're real small, but I meant to ask you also when you uh When you're real small you Play games that involve hiding from each other, would you describe that uh? As little kids, might play a game that they might hide from each other. 543: Oh yes sir, hide and seek, we taught them hide and seek. Oh man We had more fun out of it, yes sir that's right. Played hide and seek. Interviewer: You'd uh, would you explain how that, that was done, you might uh. Let's say one child would be uh would be it. 543: It to base And count and the others go hide. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Hide and seek we'd call it. We wanted him to hide his face you know and count I always was Is um Ten ten double tens. {D: Four to five fifteen hundred.} Bushel of wheat, bushel of rye, all laid here on the {D: eye}, {X} hid why, then holler I. And if they all hid, why they wouldn't say nothing. And then whoever's counting you know says Bushel of wheat, bushel of clover all they hid, can't hide over. Interviewer: All that's very interesting. 543: Then you'd go out looking for 'em then, you know. And you'd get out and look around you know and people around {D: bush one way and another} wanna jump up and run and make you {X}. Interviewer: I see, I appreciate your uh bringing that up. The way that you've uh You'd holler so that you know that either. 543: Right, right, yes sir. Interviewer: Hide or not. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: I never heard that. #1 {X} # 543: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Bushel of wheat bushel of clover, 543: All in here can't hide over He can't hide over then he done asking you know. Interviewer: {NW} I see, and uh In schools, what would you, somebody would do something wrong and uh another child would tell the teacher. What would you call that child? Say well he's nothing but an old, what? What would you Go ahead. 543: Tattler Interviewer: Tattler 543: Tattler yes say he's a tattler. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And you wouldn't like it, right? 543: No sir, no sir, no sir, that's right. No sir. Interviewer: And uh. {NW} {NW} Excuse me if a Boy Gets on the grass and Puts his head down, turns This way 543: Turn somersault Interviewer: {D: summer set} 543: Yes sir, that's what we call it, turn somersault. Interviewer: Okay. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: {NW} And did you do much swimming? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Would you describe that uh. 543: Oh Interviewer: When you'd go, where you'd go and why you'd do it? 543: Oh man I just, I'm often thinking about that, we used to get out there And go into a, well we go into the creek you know, they didn't have as many ponds as we got now you know. But we'd find a place in the creek where the deep enough to swim you know. We'd go in there and that's where we learned how to swim. Round that big hole of water Would be a bunch of us in there swimming around And then sometimes we'd find a pond that we can get in you know out in the {D: pasture}. We go there just swim all kinds of ways look like. Interviewer: Is that right? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Um, you just uh You'd, somebody An older person there or did you just kind of. 543: Well that was the beginning yes sir. And most {D: drown} in the country then there's always some there you know that could swim good and it's like {X} one another. All those come along that end mine could swim. Since lately they'd uh There's a lots of them that don't get the chance to go to swimming. Uh they don't swim or they not interested in it or something and I notice now lots of men that's coming on that there's a young men, and they don't, and it played out back {D: young a while} look like it's a space in there Now I got some boys that I wanted to you know, want 'em to swim but they wasn't interested in it. And they didn't learn how to swim and they're grown men and they don't know how to swim. That's right. Interviewer: You really have to learn it when you're young. 543: Yes that's it, yes sir, yes sir, that's right, sure. Interviewer: It's a good thing to know. 543: Yes sir, yes sir, that's right. Interviewer: Did you ever have the chance to do much to get up on a board and jump in with your? 543: Yes sir, diving. Interviewer: Would you. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Describe that? 543: Yes sir, when we get out there you know, and we take a board, long plank you know and make us a diving board you know. And we put it back and have it a long {X} spring, that way you know. And uh of course when we finally got to it we put a big old spring. Before we hit it we'd fasten it back there you know get a spring you know We had more over we would be the heaviest you know, spring, and you would get to spring and then jump up and go down on your head and go. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir Interviewer: Well sounds to me as if you had a pretty uh 543: And I don't, and I. Interviewer: Pretty good childhood. Must have enjoyed yourself. 543: Right man, we had {X} oh yes sir. We didn't have no {D: biggest time} back that then. That's what I'm often thinking about. And we would meet up over there We lived close to a Two families of white people. And we was all pretty well close to the same age, you know. There's three to four in each family you know. And man we'd meet them at their pond and they would sit there swimming and having a good time we had. We'd get tired get through and go on back. Interviewer: Oh that sounds wonderful. 543: It's wonderful right right yes sir, yes sir. Interviewer: Um When you started to get interested in girls and uh, later on how would you describe um who you uh Would let a girl know that you were interested in taking her out, how would you describe that? 543: Well I tell you Back in my time then we didn't do much taking them out. Unless, most of the time then we was with these girls was at churches. We'd meet up there. Interviewer: I see. 543: That's right. Yes sir, yes sir. And then Maybe sometime we could uh get in the wagon and ride home with them. And stay uh you know from the church sometimes we could stay if we gonna have service that night and we go back to church with them. And sit there in the house with them and they parents and play around on the porch till church time. Interviewer: What uh if you If you showed special interest in one girl, People would say well he must be what? 543: They would say, well he must be alright you know. Just interested in one girl. Interviewer: And if you uh, how would they say, "He's courting her" or he's? 543: Oh yes sir right, that's right, he's courting her, courting her that's right, yes sir. He talk like courting you see. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir, yes sir, that's right. Interviewer: And uh You would be then known as her uh If you were courting her, sh- you would be known as her what? 543: Boyfriend. Interviewer: And she would be known as your. 543: Girlfriend. Interviewer: Girlfriend? 543: Yes sir, that's right. Interviewer: And uh When you uh, would Kiss her to show uh That you loved her Uh what was that called? 543: Well just, that showing that we love one another you know. Interviewer: And would they call it kissing? 543: #1 Kissing, yeah kissing, kissing # Interviewer: #2 {X} # You ever {NS} other {D:terms}? {NS} 543: {X} Interviewer: Sometimes people call it uh bussing. {X} {NS} {X} {NW} I uh Hope that doesn't continue. {X} 543: Yes sir {NS} Interviewer: Okay uh Then {NW} If uh did you do any uh dancing? 543: No sir we didn't do much dancing back then. Of course now I tell you what Well, some few did {NS} But uh Just like we has now some folks {D: who they love to go to church}. And some don't go to church, they go to the there was dances then. But it's just different types of people. {X} Interviewer: Oh I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: But uh For those people {NW} Who uh Uh Who go to a dance, what would they call it uh There any, do you remember any special names? 543: Well they would call it a party. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yeah they'd have parties, there's gonna be a party over yonder at that Oh Back that end, they would call 'em supper, some of them would you know. Gonna have a supper, they would have fish fries and dances and everything all that was in it you see. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: There gonna be a supper such and such a place you know. That's what they would call them places you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Then if uh Let's say some went to the dances and some tended, tended to go to church 543: Yes sir Interviewer: Uh The people who went to dances Uh might get into trouble. And then you would say well the police came and arrested the, the what? 543: {X} Interviewer: If they arrest everybody you'd say well they arrested uh. 543: Them dancers Party {X} Interviewer: The whole uh 543: Yeah, the whole set up you know. Interviewer: I see 543: That they're dancing. Interviewer: Did that happen very often? 543: Yes sir, yes sir, yes sir, that's right. Interviewer: {X} 543: Sure, sure, yes sir. That's right. Then they had to go to a held trials {X} or pay fines. Interviewer: I see. 543: And we've talked about it, and we go to church you know, we uh. Talked about it if they had been to church they said this wouldn't have happened to them. Interviewer: A dance, uh I suppose they'd sit around if they weren't on the floor dancing, they'd sit back and they'd go like this. 543: Yes like this. Interviewer: #1 Well what would they call that? # 543: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Um What would they call that when they go this way? 543: Um {D:let's see} Interviewer: I suppose they just do it with the music right? {NS} 543: Yes keeping their own {X} keeping time with the music. Interviewer: {NW} Would they call it a stomp? Um Or maybe there's a dance. 543: Maybe so. That's that's what we really just don't know too much about {D: two different kind}. Interviewer: I see. 543: Alright {NS} Interviewer: Somebody uh told me one time that uh uh If, if you stand up and just you know, beat the floor Uh that's kind of a dance. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: You call that a stomp. 543: Stomp dance. Interviewer: {NW} 543: {NW} Yes sir. Interviewer: Suppose you uh, met a girl At church and uh Uh and you, want to, to uh Go Home with her, you'd say, may I Uh how would you express that to her? 543: Well, I would ask her you know uh Could I have a date with her, to go home with her? {NS} Interviewer: Or uh, could I, may I uh carry you? 543: Yes sir, carry, carry her home, you know, something like that you see. Interviewer: That would mean you just Go home with her. 543: Go home with her, right. Interviewer: You go back to your place. 543: Yes sir, that's right sure sure, yes sir. Interviewer: And suppose she didn't like you. 543: Well she said no one's done that. Interviewer: {NW} 543: One boy asked a girl one time said he walked up and you know he was gonna get acquainted with her. And he said my name is uh So-and-so we call his name John. She said I didn't ask you your name. {NW} {X} Interviewer: I see, suppose that uh She did like you, and then she changed her mind. 543: Well Interviewer: Then what, how would you describe that? 543: Well well, she would sure {X} speak to him anymore and go try to talk to him or something {D: If she gained interest in him.} That's right. Interviewer: Then suppose she'd get mad, and she didn't like him anymore, so she'd what? 543: Oh well, she Get away, she wouldn't turn him off, she wouldn't talk to him. Interviewer: I see. 543: No she wouldn't talk to him. Interviewer: Just uh Uh Suppose though they got along real well And after a while uh Uh they decided to Spend the rest of their lives together, would you describe that uh How would, how you would Ask a girl and And how would you do it? 543: Oh well, we'd ask that if you know what, if we would uh We'd ask getting married Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: We'd get married you know and all so If uh Interviewer: Can you tell me something about getting married uh. 543: #1 Yes # Interviewer: #2 Uh # {NS} Would you just describe how you would get married? 543: Well we'd ask you know uh Well I went and asked her you know and she uh {D: Liked a matter} And so of course, she would tell me, yes. And that would be {X}, you know, married. And uh, she'd think we can live together for life time of course, we'd believe so and so she would ask me and I would ask her. And of course we'd go ahead home and we go maybe have several visits you know, and so we uh. {NW} Showed that we has interest in one another, you know, we, didn't have no {D:fallout} we both agreed with it. And so after a while then we would set a time we would get married then. Of course we go along look like we gonna agree {D: with this marriage} Interviewer: Mm-hmm how did they uh, would you describe the marriage ceremony? Describe the wedding? 543: Well The way we would do most of it then back then we wouldn't have, we would just uh meet at the girl's house you know and then we'd put it out you know we gonna have a wedding that Sunday or whenever it be and {D: sold} Just several friends would come in you know and uh just. We you know put on the wedding gown and have us a special dress made you know, put on, so. And they'd get their lawyer, we'd get a lawyer you know. A preacher. And they would, you know, read ceremonial the place in the bible to read off you know. And so after they do that reading say would you take this Girl to be your wife? And stand by her Through thick and thin, now and now forever? Say yes. Interviewer: {NW} 543: Exactly. Join hands and take this for your wife. And this for your husband. Interviewer: And uh {NW} Did anybody stand up with you? 543: Wasn't back in them times that didn't anyone stand but lately come up, this is something else {X} Interviewer: I see. What do they, what do they call the people that stand up with you? 543: They Interviewer: oh 543: Wait Wait wait Interviewer: {D: Waitmen?} 543: I think they call it {D: waitmens now} Interviewer: Uh-huh And uh, the girl? That stands up with the wife? With the bride? She's uh 543: Uh what do they call that? The girl stands up with the boy. Listening. These two get married. He will have a boy to Stand by him, oh stand by the girl. And the girl will get another boy to stand by her. And that's the way they {D: goes there}. Oh I see. Yes sir. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: Well they call 'em something or other they call them now. There's {D: always} a new name now. We didn't have 'em back that end, but we do have 'em now. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And um. After their wedding, did your friends ever. Give you a, Noisy uh {NW} party? 543: Yes sir that's right, come time, sometimes they throw, Rice, just scatter rice, all spread it out of course And you know they has a big party there you know, we call it party, you know, there'd be a lot of cake {D: and you put one stuff in another you know}. there at the wedding. Interviewer: Did you ever hear of uh, people Taking a bride and groom out and ringing bells and shooting fire crackers and things like that? 543: No sir, that happ- well I tell you what I heard of that, but I just wasn't around it you see. I heard of such as that you know. and just scream and #1 And all # Interviewer: #2 Play jokes # 543: Yeah right, right, right, yes sir. Interviewer: What, what would they call that? Uh 543: Ah, cel-uh, celebrate, I don't know what they would call that exactly. Because uh. That sort of something came up later you know, of course I mostly back yonder when I come on, that didn't happen too much then. Interviewer: I heard uh. Other people have told me that it used to be called shivaree or uh {D: horhen} Or uh {D: dellon} or uh 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Do any of those sound familiar to you or no? 543: Well, I #1 don't remember # Interviewer: #2 they come from # different parts of 543: #1 Oh yes sir, sure, that's right, yes sir, yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 {X} mm-hmm # 543: Different places yes sir. Interviewer: Serenade or. Dishpan or. {NW} 543: Yes sir Serenading, serenading, yes sir that's right serenading. Interviewer: And uh If uh When the bride uh A married woman is gonna have a child Uh, you say she's what uh. 543: Pregnant. Interviewer: Pregnant? And did you use to say that? Uh 543: No sir uh Interviewer: Say well she. 543: No, they didn't use, used to use a similar kind of word. Mostly it was going to have a child. Interviewer: Okay, anything that comes to your mind, like. 543: #1 Yes sir, that's what I mean, yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 {D:interested in}. # Uh {NS} I had a, I had a feeling that they probably didn't say pregnant back then. 543: #1 No sir, that's, that's right # Interviewer: #2 More of a medical term today # 543: Yes, I call it {X}. Interviewer: Uh-huh, right 543: Educational thing. Interviewer: Right, I'm just wondering how they used to, to talk about it uh. Say she's just gonna have a child. 543: Yes sir, yes sir, they's gonna have a child. Interviewer: Uh When uh There's time for the child to come, would you describe what you do uh? No hospital {NW} 543: No hospital no sir. {D: man}, back that end, they would just call 'em granny. Granny women. It was women that you know would do, wait on them, you know. Back that end. Oh yes sir, man I, {X}. No they didn't know about no doctor, nothing. {D: with it}. That's one thing, we can't get no, {D: lotta birth}. It's hard getting a birth certificate. {D: Or a certificate holder}. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: Well anyway, And um um, Back then when I did, I messed up on mine. They didn't turn 'em in right and everything, they just write and didn't think they ever have need them or nothing of the kind, back that end. Yes sir, the uh, these granny women would wait on {D: me}. People were grown and young, {X} back that end. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How long would she stay uh The granny? 543: She wouldn't stay long. Probably you know, some of them would take a little longer you know, probably, most of the time it would be at night you know. Probably, they might stay the rest of the night you know, the end of the night, rest of the night. Sometime it'd be in the daytime, as soon as, that-that was over, as soon as she'd had the kid you know, Why, she'd fix it up you know and leave on out. But she would go back in a few days and dress the child and see how's it's getting along. And of course uh She would go back in about three days that navel string would come off, she would go back in. {D: brown a cloth} or burn a cloth and put on it and grease it you know, and put a {D: bandage on it}. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: And that was all of it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. If uh If the uh, child. Uh, resembles a parent, Say that the boy resembles his father, {NW} at birth you say, well that boy really. Uh How did they use to say that? 543: Yes sir, that was his {X}. He's the one that done it you know and all. {D: you, that's speaking of these young girls}. Interviewer: Well uh, yes, and what would they call a child that uh, that was born to a woman who wasn't married? What would they call that child? 543: Well they call, well I, back that end, they'd call her a Uh, bush Child. Interviewer: Bush child? Uh-huh That meant, she, the mother wasn't 543: #1 Right, right, right. # Interviewer: #2 married? # 543: #1 Right, right, that's right, yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # And uh, If uh, if a young child Say, three or four years old, Uh starts to Well suppose the uh Father has uh very Piercing eyes and the little boy has piercing eyes, you say, well that little boy uh what? 543: Just like his, just like his daddy. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: Yes, he's bound to be his daddy's because he favors him in some way. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And suppose uh The father is always laughing you know and happy, And the boy's always happy, you say, well that little fellow 543: Is taking after his daddy. Just like him, yes sir, yes sir. Interviewer: And uh Um How would you refer to uh All the children Uh Then you say now I don't have any? At home, they are all in school, now how would you refer to To all of them? Did they say kids, back in your, when you were, young? 543: No sir, they said children. Interviewer: I see. 543: Childrens. #1 Children # Interviewer: #2 Children # 543: Children. Interviewer: Ah. Kids, is not Didn't used to be used apparently at all. 543: No sir, no sir, no sir. Interviewer: Must be quite recent. And did you ever hear uh {NW} Somebody Say, we had Fourteen, sixteen children? Say, well, yes he's got a whole, what? 543: Whole bunch of children. Interviewer: Whole bunch of children. Did you ever hear a passel Got a whole passel of children? 543: I don't don't remember that right now. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And uh If you uh {NW} The father's name is John, and the uh Child's name is John, you say, well, they must have named, 543: After his daddy, yes, after his daddy. Interviewer: And uh Uh, if both the parents uh died, I suppose that often happened. What uh, how would they describe the child? 543: Uh, of this parents. Interviewer: Let's say both of them have died. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Then how would they describe the child? 543: They would say that he's motherless, children. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Would they uh, would they ever say orphan? 543: Orphan children, there's orphan children, orphan children. Interviewer: I see. And uh would somebody be appointed to look after them? 543: Well of course yes sir well uh Well back that then you know um, just somebody would take it on theyself to see after them. Somebody, people {X}, somebody would have to care for them to take them you know and see after them you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Now, the court uh. 543: Yes sir, that's right, appoints somebody to someplace. Interviewer: They call them uh. they call 'em now a what? Somebody at court actually does name They call them guardian or 543: We di- that's right, they had them looking over them is the guardian, you know. Interviewer: But that didn't use to be the case? 543: No sir, no sir, no sir, no sir, nothing like that. Interviewer: {D: awful, uh-huh}. And uh Did people uh I don't suppose you did on the farm, but uh maybe you did. Uh did you have something with wheels on that you put the baby in? And uh, then you Push it or pull it? 543: Ye- yes sir, we call that a, well a Stroller. Interviewer: Stroller. 543: Stroller. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh, did you call it a stroller back then, or is that mostly what they call it now? 543: Well they called it a baby buggy back that end. Yes sir, we called it a baby buggy. Interviewer: And uh if, if you wanted to take the baby uh out to show it say to somebody in town, Just take it down the sidewalk to show it off to the neighbors, you'd say I'm gonna what the baby? 543: Gonna uh Interviewer: Just uh In the buggy, what would you do? 543: Stroll, well you say push it down the Street, in the Interviewer: You ever say roll the baby? 543: Roll, roll the baby. Interviewer: Uh, I, I've heard different things, air the baby, gonna ride the baby buggy, gonna roll the baby. 543: Well, mostly ride the baby down the ride, that's what most you know, most, ride it down, through there, yes sir. Interviewer: And uh, before it can walk, the baby will get on the floor and do what? 543: Crawl. Interviewer: Pretty fast. 543: Crawl, yes sir, yes sir. Yes sir. Interviewer: Okay, and uh, different parts of uh Of the body, anything that you can remember, that they used to say. Uh, for example this part. How did they use to refer to that? 543: The, throat? Interviewer: Well yes. Do you remember, anybody ever saying goozle? For that part? They ever say goozle? 543: Goozle. Of course, yes sir, that's goozle, yes, they'd mostly call that a goozle. Interviewer: Uh-huh. That's what I'm interested in, any, any terms that are, words like that. 543: #1 Yes sir, yes sir # Interviewer: #2 Remember that, {X} # 543: Yeah I remember that's the goozle. Interviewer: Did they, what did they call this up here? 543: Your forehead. Interviewer: Uh-huh And, any special name for this? 543: The hair? Interviewer: And if somebody, somebody maybe your grandfather had a big A lot of these whiskers grow. 543: They, they call them whiskers. Mustache Interviewer: Mustache? 543: Mustache? Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh And would they ever say beard or, 543: Some folks would call them beards you know, but most of them would call them mustache? #1 Yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 I see. # Uh-huh. And uh. Um, this would be my, 543: Ear. Interviewer: Which one? 543: The left. Interviewer: And this would be my. 543: Right ear. Yeah. Interviewer: And uh, this part, 543: Would be your mouth. Interviewer: And you say the goozle was, 543: The goozle's down here. Interviewer: Just this one. Bony part. 543: Yeah, that's right, that bone part, that's that goozle. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And this part here would be, 543: Neck. Interviewer: And you say you had one? 543: Tooth. Interviewer: But, two. 543: Teeth. Interviewer: Did you ever call this t- 543: Eye teeth, eye tooth, yes, eye tooth. Interviewer: And uh, underneath, the uh teeth, you have the red part. 543: Uh What is that that that's Gum. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Just uh, take your time sir, if you can remember anything anything that you used to call it. 543: Sure. Interviewer: Uh. And uh on your hand, this part. 543: Is the palm of your hand. Interviewer: And uh, you have one. 543: Fist. Interviewer: But two. 543: Fist. Interviewer: Okay. 543: Two fist. Interviewer: And uh, uh, anything, any place where you. Might get arthritis, you call that a what? 543: Your knee. In the knee. Interviewer: Okay, and the thing that forms, your, the knee is one of this. 543: Call it what, a muscle. Interviewer: Okay, and anything moves, 543: The leader, the leader. Jerk. Interviewer: Okay, and uh {NW} This part of a man's body. 543: Is his breast. Interviewer: And uh, you've got one whole. 543: {D: liter} {D: whole muscle} Interviewer: And you have this whole thing. 543: Uh, fingers Interviewer: Okay, and uh the whole thing. 543: Would be your hand. #1 Yes # Interviewer: #2 Yes. # Did you ever call, did you ever hear people calling them anything else? 543: The hand. Interviewer: Say, let's see your Sometimes there's somebody said They might call them, your mitts. 543: Oh, mitten, No mitten, no mitts. Interviewer: Uh Different words 543: Oh we had a say, yes sir. Interviewer: Um Okay, and this whole thing. 543: The leg. Interviewer: Did uh, would, when you were young, uh did you refer to a woman's leg, or would you likely say, that's, that's, her limb. 543: Limb, well, we would, we would just, we would say leg. Leg, yeah, that's that's what we, yes sir, her leg. Interviewer: Do you think a limb, why do people say limbs? 543: Well, That that's what they've been taught politely Interviewer: I see. 543: About the limbs. Interviewer: I see. 543: Uh Course, that's what they did teaching them now, you know the limbs you know. {NS} and this one body. {X} the limbs and the {X} {NW} that body Interviewer: I see. 543: But back that end we just said leg, that's right yes sir. Interviewer: And then you'd have one. 543: Foot. Interviewer: But two. 543: {NS} Two foots. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh this part where it hurts if you get kicked? 543: Oh man {NW} I can feel mine hurting now, that there leg bone. Yes sir. Interviewer: Do, did people use to call that shanks or what? 543: Shank, I. Interviewer: Or shin or. 543: Shank bone Uh mostly we just call it leg back at end, leg. Interviewer: Leg bone? 543: Yes sir, and this thigh bone, thigh. Interviewer: And if a man would get down, Like this, {NS} To talk to another man, you say he's down on his, what? 543: Hunkers. Interviewer: I see, and he'd say well he's hunkering. 543: Hunkering down, yes sir, that's right, that's right, yes sir. Interviewer: Okay, and uh. Then uh, more questions about just ordinary life uh People I'm sure got sick in those days, would you tell me something about uh um how you would describe their, Uh What they would get sick from and what you do for it and so on? Any recollections that you have. 543: #1 Yes sir, of course such as having a # Interviewer: #2 {D: doctors and hospitals} # 543: No, we didn't have too much hospitals then. We just doctor it at home. Course we had little doctors out in the rural you know. Ride their horses, buggy yes and come out and give you some salt or something or other We'd have the flu you know, and they'd come out and give us some, I don't know what kind of medicine, something tastes like salt, and come back in a few days. Just Interviewer: Suppose somebody, uh had been feeling okay, but at night Got suddenly, needed a doctor, you'd say, well, I don't know what's the matter, all the sudden he, what? 543: He sick. Took bad sick. Interviewer: Bad sick. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And {NW} The next day, you'd say, well how are you? And uh, the person might say, what? 543: He's, he's better? Interviewer: I'm feeling. 543: Pretty well. Interviewer: Pretty well? 543: Prett- well see, pretty well the next day. Interviewer: And uh, the doctor might say, well, you're uh You're doing much better, so there's nothing to, what? 543: Nothing to just, just wait, you'll get well. Interviewer: And you ever say now, don't worry. 543: Yeah, don't worry about it, you'll get well, gotta help 'em feel better. Interviewer: What did people used to uh smoke in the old days? 543: We, we smoked a lot of rabbit tobacco. Interviewer: Is that right? 543: Yes sir. You know what they call rabbit tobacco. Interviewer: No I don't. 543: Something grew out on the little stalks out wide you know, we'd get it and dry, and grind it up and smoke it. Of course and we used to smoke old {D: pot cob} pipes you know, homemade cob pipes. Get us old corn cobs, take a knife, and scrape it out so about the size of a {D: corn on a pipe}. Get us old cane that grew out wild, cane, cut ourself a giant {D: long} bore a little hole in that cob just like a pipe. And we'd smoke it. Interviewer: Did uh, did you have a chance to buy things to smoke, like they do now? 543: Not too much, no sir. Interviewer: How much did it cost? I wonder 543: Ah you could get a big old sack if you were able to get tobacco, I mean money. You could get a big old sack for a nickel or ten cents for a great big old sack of tobacco. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: But the thing is uh, the thing is made made up already? 543: Cigarettes. Interviewer: Mm-hmm, and- 543: Cigars. Interviewer: Cigars? 543: We didn't do too much of that, no sir cause wasn't able to buy 'em. And they wouldn't sell many of that, no sir. Interviewer: I suppose they're pretty expensive. 543: Well yes sir, yes sir, uh. Interviewer: The cigars in the old days used to be uh, for bankers only.