543: {X} catch 'em nah well you know you could go out there but ain't no telling who would get 'em or what {NS} what's all out there you see. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: could put feed out there if you could catch 'em or get them huddled somewhere you know to catch them or something or feed 'em up well they'd be alright {NW} Interviewer: What do you call a tough {X} 543: The hair of course was uh well that's the way you do you know that's great When you get ready to kill them you dress 'em you know and kill them and put them in hot water you know and scrape that off {NW} well it's that old dead skin comes off with that hair too you know and all that scraping come clean you know Interviewer: that tough hair is that ever called bristle 543: yes sir {X} did I say bristle {X} {NW} uh bristle uh we didn't call it bristle {X} but we just called it that bristle is just uh some fat {NW} yes sir uh Interviewer: Fat 543: Yes sir that's right yes sir. #1 Yes # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 543: That's right. Su- {NS} Interviewer: and did you grow any sheep? [X] [D] [NS] 543: well back then we'd grow a few sheep you know {NW} that's right they did grow a few sheep back there in them time you know Interviewer: what would the male be called 543: a ram Interviewer: and the female 543: Uh uh yoe Interviewer: and what would you grow on the floor mostly? would you eat 'em or 543: well uh yes sir we'd eat 'em eat 'em sometime the young ones. {NW} And mostly grow them out they grow wool is what we would make these clothes out of is Interviewer: #1 they actually make the um # 543: #2 wool # wool that's right that hair that grows out of them and it'd be long {NW} when you shear them take a shear and then shear that hair off and and and and and and and sack it up. Interviewer: I see 543: yes sir that's that's right sure you shear them so often {NW} Lay them on a table catch them and lay them out on a table they'd act {D: just so long as} there ain't no trouble Interviewer: Is that 543: Yes sir, that's right. {NW} Shear that hair off of them you know and and then sack it up {NW} um I don't know just how often right now but it will be so long that hair be done growed back out on them again. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: and uh how about the cattle? uh the male and female? of course the female would be the cow but the male would be 543: #1 Cow # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 543: bull Interviewer: uh-huh 543: and the heifers cow like that you know Interviewer: did you uh did uh when you were young did people ever say bull in front of a woman or something? 543: no sir they said a steer no sir you you're right about that they wouldn't say bull. {NW} that done got so they don't pay it or notice is that uh {D: that yelling} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: {D: Yelling} that steer or that {D: yelling.} Interviewer: Mm-hmm I wonder why that was somebody told me that uh 543: right well that bull sound that sounds like it's too {NW} what do you call it too {NW} too ugly or something or other that's what I think Interviewer: I see 543: That's the way they thought of it. Interviewer: and uh when they talk about hogs do they talk about a boy or 543: no sir a male no they wouldn't say male boy hog or something like that you know Interviewer: hmm 543: That's right. the boy hog or the girl hog you wouldn't say sow at all you wouldn't say now it ain't nothing but back then they wouldn't do it no sir Interviewer: and uh the young uh the cow the heifer 543: Heifers. #1 You would say heifers. # Interviewer: #2 Heifers # 543: Heifers. Interviewer: um 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: they ever say calves 543: yes sir the calves yes sir they would you know the young ones they was the calves yes sir. Interviewer: and if a cow was going to have a calf how would they describe it? 543: well if they know there's one going to come in Going to be fresh. Interviewer: #1 I see # 543: #2 Fresh. # Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: and uh would you tell me about the dogs that you remember? different kinds of dogs 543: well yes sir I can tell you about them uh I did take the hounds of course that's what I handled mostly {NW} yes sir {NW} oh yes sir you you you teach them you know and uh by raising them you mean Interviewer: yes different kinds 543: well Interviewer: that you would call 'em that looked like that? 543: yes sir Interviewer: {X} 543: Hounds these old long eared hounds you know and all well {NW} yes sir you you takes them and you hunt something you know and I love to hunt them and {NW} train them these old long eared hounds and train them after coons and possum and squirrels and whichever you know {NW} and then it' s just a lot of different kinds of dogs ya know It'd be prairie dogs them's this {NS} I call 'em hay pounders and hay for {NW} Shepherds what they call them prairie dogs you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: And then you find old long haired ones Some of them they call them shepherds you know and {NW} oh different kind of name poodles and Interviewer: how about the ones that are noisy and 543: yes sir Interviewer: they run around a lot 543: that's right yes sir and I'll tell you what s- some of 'em called some of them that little old brown short legged dog they call them weenie dogs {NW} What And that's the only way I know And then there's some rude little noisy one them is feisty Interviewer: I see 543: yes sir them small little dogs they's feisty oh they makes a good squirrel dogs when you train them Interviewer: are they pretty uh scrappy? 543: yes sir oh yes sir man that's right yes sir {NW} they you know people used to say oh they're the most feisty they would make the big dogs fight you know oh they're so {NW} scrappy why they make the big dogs jump on the others you know they ain't gonna do nothing they can't they ain't big enough Interviewer: they just like to start it off 543: that's it they start a fight {NW} yes sir. Interviewer: oh when uh somebody when a man uh uh makes a dog mad and the dog comes after it you say well that man's gonna get 543: {NW} dog bit Interviewer: and uh uh when he picks up a rock and lets go he says I'm watching what? 543: watch him uh going to Interviewer: Just uh uh chunk 543: {X} Sure throw and hit him you know Chunking him ya know chunking him bad You know and he chunks him you know Interviewer: #1 And uh # 543: #2 Yes sir # Interviewer: the different calls to animals, can you remember how you used to call in the cows? and call in the horses and things like that 543: yes sir! sure! Interviewer: would you tell me? and here again the book is no help at all - I- uh you gotta hear it 543: {NS} yes sir yes sir Interviewer: I cant write it 543: no sir I'll say it Interviewer: {X} would you uh tell me uh how you used to do that? 543: you would call a cow you would get out there you know and we'd call a cow you know we call 'em sook {D: holler you know and call 'em sook} sook that's for cows you know and they soon learn to come you know and all {NW} Yes sir. {NW} and we whistle you know for the horses like {NW} #1 For the horses # Interviewer: #2 For the horses # 543: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 543: horses the horses you know. and tell 'em to come on you know and holler and tell them to come on {NW} and then feed 'em something when they get there and then it won't be long before you learn them and whenever they hear that they's coming in to ya {NW} Yes sir. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: yes sir. Interviewer: and how about the hogs 543: The hog the hog you get out there you know and holler hoo pig hoo pig hoo pig {NW} #1 They coming in # Interviewer: #2 {X} # i see 543: Yes sir hoo pig Come on piggy Interviewer: Did you have a special call for the mules 543: no mules and horses are about the same {NW} yes sir yes sir. Interviewer: and chickens? 543: chick yes sir we get out there and holler chick chick #1 chick # Interviewer: #2 and then they'd come # 543: oh yes sir they come flying and running Interviewer: and uh did you have a call for the sheep 543: {NW} {D: holler out there you know sheepy} sheepy come on sheepy sheepy Interviewer: I see Yes sir that's right. and uh the different noises that animals make uh the calf how would you say that how you would you describe the noise? 543: well of course you know they holler uh you know sort of like a cow {X} a calf holler you know {NW} {NW} That's the way a calf hollers he sounds like that you know Interviewer: And 543: An old cow holler moo Interviewer: Uh-huh 543: Moo Interviewer: and how do you describe those calf uh calf somebody said calf blats 543: blates they call it blates yes sir that's right that well that's just the way it is blating Interviewer: uh-huh 543: yes sir for its mother Interviewer: and uh the uh the noise that a horse makes when hes quiet and ready to eat 543: Yes sir Interviewer: shuffling noise what do you call that? 543: Squealing Interviewer: I see 543: squealing Interviewer: And when he's mad and throws his head back 543: snorting he's snorting man yes sir we call that snorting Interviewer: alright did you ever hear nicker or flicker? horse nicker? 543: Nickels that's what we call squealing you know nickeling Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir. That's that's about the sa- it's the same thing. #1 Nickeling and squealing # Interviewer: #2 That's a pretty # Quiet 543: Oh yes sir squeal yes sir That's right or nickeling {X} Interviewer: and uh i also wanted to ask you uh when we were talking about the bore and the uh uh bull what did you call a male horse? 543: we called him a horse Interviewer: the male? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: and uh {NW} well in the older times we called a mare filly as a different as a nicer name than a mare. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: {NW} now they call 'em mare {NW} horses or stud horses Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Filly a horse Interviewer: i see 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: now would you tell me everything you can remember about riding the horse and hitching him up and getting ready to go pull a buggies 543: yes sir Interviewer: Things like that would you just describe that 543: Well you got how do you say you made for them, harnesses already made for them of course you know the factory make 'em {NW} They got a collar on they put a collar on that horse and it fits his sh- neck and shoulders and comes out on his shoulder {NW} or if they got some hames they call it they put acro- over that collar. {NW} they got some trace chains to fasten to them hames they got log heads they call it {NW} fasten those traces to them hames {NW} and them traces about six foot long long enough to go back there to hitch to the trail I mean {NW} hitch to the singletree we call it you know the singletree so long there you know it got hooks on it too and traces too. {NW} well it's got a a cuff on it right in the middle you know to hook back to the buggy {NW} or to the wagon either one of course {NW} mostly hitches two horses to the um wagon you can hitch 'em both to that you know one have a tong in between that to guide the wagon you know {NW} to guide these wheels you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: and so you can hitch one on one side one on the other {NW} and have some change come out at the end of the tong past to the breast down there {NW} and they just hitch up the wagon and all {NW} going down a hill why they just hold 'em back with the lines on 'em you know {NW} cross lines on 'em you know to hold 'em back to keep 'em from running or going down the hill too fast {NW} and of course you know and then they have a back band they called it crossed it back {NW} to hold the traces up keep 'em from falling down ya know. Yes sir. Then they have a called a belly band with a strap on it that come back under their belly they come up to the trace to keep 'em from ran up and just hold 'em right there you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir. And they pull that wagon up there the buggy the same way. Interviewer: Uh, when you uh mention singletree did uh I'm not sure if I understand that, did you have a singletree for each horse? 543: Yes sir. That's right. Interviewer: And then they would hook on to uh.. 543: A doubletree. Interviewer: I see. Say would you join the two of them together 543: Right. Yes sir. Interviewer: I see. 543: See, yes sir. I say to hitch them to a wagon that away you know where you had that singletree {NW} when you have a doubletree on the wagon you know it's hitched to the wagon back here you know {NW} and this end sticking out here and then a chain come back to the wagon you know to keep it straight you know and guide {NW} well this tongue coming up through here you know and one horse on this side of the tongue and one on that {NW} what I mean by the singletree and then you'd have a short singletree here {NW} fastened to this doubletree here on the end. You see and that horse is over here where the shortest tree you know to come up is them traces to. Interviewer: I see. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: I see. Uh well you're a good teacher you really make this uh make this clear to me uh uh what what would you use to uh uh make the horse go faster uh 543: Well uh {NW} I tell you what we used back in the old times course they come on up because they did have a some few but {NW} everybody wouldn't able to use them uh a whip kind of a buggy whip oh they got some of them made you know these the long whips you know {NW} and it's kind of platted up out of leather {NW} of course we you know out of {NW} we mostly back then we go out there and cut us a hickory out of the woods. And then they'd just that was good enough to make 'em go. Interviewer: Hmm. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: That was real uh limber 543: Right. Yes sir. Small little hickory you know not one too large you know when you find 'em out there the long keen hickory you know {NW} whip 'em and make 'em go. {NW} Interviewer: And uh let's see when you would ride a horse uh when you'd ride a horse you um you'd have not a lines but you hold on to 543: When you riding him? Interviewer: Ride 543: Yes sir. You know they have a bridle on him and of course bits in his mouth {NW} and you have a line on each side in each reign you know and pull him the way you want him to go you know, yes sir. Interviewer: And uh what did you used to call things you put your feet into? 543: A s- stir Interviewer: sir 543: a saddle stir Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: yes sir. Interviewer: And if you didn't manage to stay on and came off you'd say well he fell 543: He throwed him off #1 Throwed him # Interviewer: #2 Throw # 543: yes sir. #1 Yes sir # Interviewer: #2 And # Um, uh, I'm interested in one thing here uh in oxen and mules and horses uh what uh how would you describe two of each of those? 543: The oxens Interviewer: and mules and horses you have uh you have two horses the uh say you got a 543: A horse team Interviewer: A team of horses 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: and then if you had two mules 543: Well a team of mules. Interviewer: Did you ever hear people say a pair of mules 543: Pair of mules, yes sir, right, that's right pair of mules, pair of horses Interviewer: Either one? 543: Yes sir, right, they're the same thing. Interviewer: Same thing? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And did you see uh people use oxen around 543: I've done it. #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Have you? # 543: I've done it. yes sir, man, yes {NW} I I just {NW} look like I wish was back there in that time {D: a long place} {NW} Interviewer: Well you look like you enjoyed it 543: Really yes sir yes sir man {NW} we trained them oxens you know uh and I've seen them haul logs with 'em {X} yes sir. oxens you know we have a {NW} a bowl {NW} alright now I've made 'em and we've and of course the factory makes 'em you know {NW} a yoke and we use a yoke oxen {NW} we have uh well we got some bowls {NW} {X} something something something like this you know this was a bowl a stick {NW} well we go trim it out you know for it to be smooth and make a stick you know and bend it and it would be straight you know we can bend it and make a bow out of it {NW} well we have a long piece of wood {NW} and we cue it out to where it would fit sawed it you know to fit his neck alright now we'd poke two holes in there on that end and we would have it long about four foot long {NW} come across over here to the next one and it would be the same thing. {NW} and we put a hole here and we put a ring here you know to fasten 'em to it {NW} {D: we'd put that bow on top of that yellin's neck that oxen's neck you know} and that boulder on his neck you know {NW} and that big bull is up there on the back of his neck just here bull go cross up there you know the yoke that's what we call it {NW} and this bull go around his neck and go up through that {NW} and man them thing can pull {NW} yeah you put that wagon tongue in between 'em there you know and fan it in that reign that away {NW} and that big yoke go across his neck you know and that bull comes up under it you know so so large about like on them you know where it won't hurt it you know. {NW} and that cows getting pulled Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh did you say you had a yolk, a oxen and like a pair of horses 543: Horses, right, right, that's right yes sir we we we trained 'em up like that. #1 Sure did. # Interviewer: #2 And uh # Did you did you call two of two of the oxen a yolk of oxen? 543: Yoke of oxens that's right. A yoke of oxen Interviewer: Did you ever hear a span of span of oxen? 543: Oh well I don't we just didn't call 'em that then span well I don't know that would be that would be more more of the yoke would it it would be the same thing. {NW} {X} Interviewer: That be so...that be so. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: I just, I bet you, you're right 543: Span and I believe {NW} that just run my crazy mind a span would be I thought maybe more than one of course {NW} I've seem 'em like that {NW} and man I've seen 'em with chain and oh man they have {NW} six or eight oxens to one big wagon. Interviewer: Oh I bet that's it. A yolk of oxen would be a two over the yolk. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And a span would be more than two. 543: That's what I'm thinking Interviewer: Three 543: Yes sir they have a chain running right down through all all of them you know in a row you know. Interviewer: Okay 543: Man, yes sir. Interviewer: Fine. 543: I say Interviewer: Uh, I think we talked about oh when you talked about the you have a team and how would you say that you you have a team or how did you have a team or how did you... 543: A team of Interviewer: Uh say uh uh a horses 543: Horses, yes sir a team would just a be a wag- I mean two you know to Interviewer: And how would you describe what you were doing with 'em if they uh say uh you tell a boy you're not old enough pretty soon you're gonna be old enough to what? 543: Drive 'em Interviewer: Drive 'em 543: Drive 'em Interviewer: Yourself. 543: Yes sir, yes sir drive 'em, yes sir. Interviewer: #1 And uh # 543: #2 Yes sir. # Interviewer: Uh 543: And too I would like to mention too about this here becoming these oxen I meant to {X} why you know why they call this place Oxford Interviewer: No I don't... 543: Oxford. Oxford, spell that Oxford Interviewer: I see. Uh they actually use Oxford uh oxen around here that much? 543: Oxes that's what this you mentioned about this that's why they call this Oxford. It used to be here this branch down here you know that back in them olden times you know they uh was going back and forth here through here {NW} and I don't know where where first one the place another can't tell just about a way but anyway {NW} there's a Ford down here and inside the dealer's town here and that's why you know they c- there wasn't no no no creeks I mean the creeks, creeks what I mean is there weren't no bridge down and that's where they make that old Oxford cups and the water was going down through there you see and that's what they call the Oxford we watered the oxens down there you know and everything Interviewer: I see. 543: And that's the reason they call this place Oxford. {NW} Oxford they call it you know they cuts it off like but it's Oxford. Interviewer: The Ford 543: Oxford that's right and they named this little town Oxford and build it up like that yes sir. Interviewer: Uh, what do you remember about your first automobile? The airplane kind of 543: Oh man that, that's right and man you talking about getting scared when we'd meet one of them would go forwards in the road {NW} yes sir I say yes I remember when them there the little old T models come out man {NW} of course you know it was several years before I ever owned one of course but you know around with them you know and other people you know {NW} I'll say it manage in the zone some you know Would ride with them And Yeah I I like to drive them With four wheel on there you know And man I I that's one thing I still drive one of them old T models Interviewer: Is that right 543: Yeah Interviewer: Did uh you have trouble with the tires, when you first came out? 543: Oh y- Interviewer: When somebody... I heard that you had to keep patching the 543: Oh yes sir! Man that's right we patched all the time man we'd have a flat along we'd just stop and {NW} pick it up and step on a s- jack or something or other anything Interviewer: Actually it wasn't as much the tire as it was the 543: The tools the tools the main thing that's right, yes sir. Interviewer: but you would let the air out 543: yes sir I would let the air out, yes sir, that's right, that's right, yes sir Interviewer: Uh how about the gas how did you uh how much gas would they take 543: Uh it would take the right amount of gas on the T model back then yeah I wouldn't know just what but right smart of gas a whole lot more than they do now because {NW} driving along and then you'd had to take the load on 'em you know and pass by no road wasn't rough just {NW} just dirt roads and everything you know and it took a lot of gas. Interviewer: Uh how the about the oils? 543: We didn't use too much oil of course you know no sir no sir that's right. {NW} you know till it get old about wore out you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And you mentioned dirt roads, would you describe how the roads have changed? 543: Oh man Interviewer: Time uh 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: {X} all of them dirt 543: right right yes sir that's right. Man we'd have to pick time when using them cars back then we couldn't just use them just any time Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: And it had to be a dry time you know and all and the roads just all all the way through the woods. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 543: Yes sir just Interviewer: How did, how did they keep up with the roads? 543: Well they didn't sir rich 'em I'd say keep 'em up was there some individual would go along and um roll the {X} or something or other some time {X} work on it their self and took on their own work on it because they're just going over it {NW} and maybe some of 'em are getting you know say let's work work on the road through here and we work so far you know and all get out there to share with the mules or something and other so work on the road and then maybe somebody else take it up and go on further you know #1 Such as that right # Interviewer: #2 So far # 543: Yes sir. That's all. Interviewer: What would you call um a road that wasn't a public road that was just narrow and ran from a public road to a farm... what would you call that? 543: Aw that's just a little old farm {X} Call it you know Yes sir just a little old farm road way Interviewer: And uh do you remember uh uh what the difference or how what the next step was after the dirt road what did they do to make it better? 543: they, well, they'd put gravel on it, call it gravel the road Gravel the road yes sir. #1 Yes sir # Interviewer: #2 And then # Uh what's the next step...? 543: Oh well {NW} frankly what they well sir I think well most black topper road {NW} call it asphalt road you know some {NW} and then what they {NW} concrete in it put what they call the concrete road Interviewer: And uh is that fairly recent 543: Yeah right right yeah that's it, yes sir we had one for several years back yonder before then yes sir. Interviewer: A little road that wasn't public um but was just uh linked several farms what would you call? 543: Just a little old uh it's not a not a public road you know but just a Uh Interviewer: {D: Somebody told me it was a lie away or a neighborhood road or} 543: Well sir that's what they called mostly call it just a little neighborhood road you see just just connecting farms or something together it's a neighborhood road Interviewer: Okay 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: {NS} And uh if your car was uh stuck uh in the mud uh you get a mule and uh take 543: Yes sir many times, many times that's right yes sir {NW} have a good mule if it ain't stuck too bad why just go get a mule and hook to the front of it you know and start it on off and it'd go spin and get on out Interviewer: Yank and pull 543: Yes sir yes sir yes sir. Interviewer: Did you have to get behind and... 543: Well sometime they would you know of course and hot bed is stuck but hardly ever you know {NW} we had good mules back then you know and so Interviewer: No man power 543: Not too much no sir no sir, that's right of course now I'll tell you what we have pushed them a many miles though at night and get off you know that we'd get off any time it rain {NW} and uh maybe several of us in the car you know and ride a piece and then have to get out and push push till {NW} oh man Interviewer: Get out of the mud 543: Yes sir right right right, that's right Sure did. Interviewer: Uh when you have a uh something for uh sawing logs it would look like this what would you call it? 543: A rack. Interviewer: And if you use this and put planks across 543: Yes sir that's uh um whatcha call it um yes sir I know this is a uh {NW} Interviewer: Uh a carpenter 543: Man yes sir that's right what how come I can't call {X} #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 I think # You're doing fine I think this is uh.. 543: Good gracious. Interviewer: I uh somebody told me that this is a a thing that looks like this is a rack 543: Yes sir Interviewer: And this is called a bench 543: Yes saw bench man, a saw horse some call saw bench or saw horse you know Interviewer: Which do you remember calling it uh when you were a boy? Do you remember? 543: Saw horse. Interviewer: Saw horse 543: Saw horses that's what we'd call 'em you know. Interviewer: And uh would you describe other tools that you had? Things did you have uh what did you pound with? Did you have regular uh hammers or...? 543: No sir {NS} no sir no sir man that that was something {NW} we'd go out there in the woods and we cut us a hickory and we'd cut us off a block about that long {NW} and something like this and we'd trim out a handle on it right in the middle of it all the way around and leave a handle on it and that handle would be right in the middle of it {NW} handle would be so long you know we trim all this off we'd cut around the chin you know cut around it you know and uh keep that trim off and trim at hand and leave that handle sticking off {NW} without the other part long part it would be about that long you know {NW} where we get it and put it around that fly and kind of toughen it and burn it solder you know? {NW} and that would make it tough. And man we dry posters and Interviewer: Is that right? 543: and wooden wedges, oh yes sir oh it would last a good while Interviewer: Uh when you uh what other things in later on did you get for that? 543: Well we got, we finally got a you know a sledge hammer with this wooden handle in it you know and went to drive and got some {NW} steel wedges we call it you know and that's what we're using now. Interviewer: Mm-hmm but you are actually made your own 543: Yes sir, that's right yes sir good Interviewer: When you um um when have to sharpen something would you describe different things was cradle you mentioned when you were harvesting... 543: Yes sir Interviewer: how would you sharpen that? 543: Well we get a well well we would get a brick man or something like that uh sometime we'd get a file we'd have a file you know and it's got a long blade on it you know where we we'd sharpen wit that that blade you know and have that file {NW} and of course if we didn't have a file in this {X} so for the time we'd get us a brick bed and you know some sharpen good with it. Interviewer: Hmm with a brick bed 543: Yes sir yes sir yes sir that's right sure we done that Interviewer: And your razor uh at home 543: A razor well {NW} we would we would get you know some time on the hand sometime old old leather piece of leather strap or something like that you know and sharpen that razor Interviewer: And how about uh knives 543: Well knives oh man my mother had done that old cook stove oh you know metal stove {NW} sharpen that knife on that stove you know #1 in front of you # Interviewer: #2 So you actually # didn't have any wet stones or 543: No sir, no sir, no sir, no sir {NW} and sometimes we get out there and maybe you know uh {NW} old sand rock or something or other {NW} picked up {NW} and get them knives on there and man and sharpen 'em Interviewer: mm-hmm and uh did you when was it when you finally got big round? 543: Rounded rock {NW} oh it was late, it done got late oh man I was still out in the cold {NW} and turned out that ol' rock with my daddy to sharp axes that's {NW} really I ain't got no sense in them {NW} Interviewer: Well I think... 543: Clearing up land for people you know we move on this place and we clear up land my daddy was a bad manager {NW} well in a way well he just managed and get with the wrong people and all {NW} and he just go along we work we'd get on the man place and clean it up you know he gave us the wood off of it which we got to have wood you know and and cut all the wood off the place and wouldn't have no say and wouldn't get nothing out of it {NW} that's why I worked during the winter during the winter when I would've been in school {NW} and we cleared peoples land that way and all {NW} we start grinding that old ax there you know every morning in the cold and at twelve o clock at noon {NW} and grinding that ax you know for it to be sharp and we'd go and clear up woods clear people's land Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: {NW} Interviewer: Uh what did you uh what do you call that thing with one wheel and handles that you can push? 543: It's a wheel barrow, yes sir. Interviewer: Did you have that when you were pretty young 543: Well yes sir and we would done that we would get out in the woods and cut us a tree down saw us a wheel off you know pulled a hole through it and got a vine stuck through that wheel oh man that thing worked good Interviewer: {X} 543: Yes sir. Got us two sticks and place the binds something else got us two sticks and you know build a hole in 'em and put 'em in that rod you know and made us a wheel barrow Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: #1 yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 Um # when you uh when somebody would start to build something and you really didn't uh wasn't very good at it what kind of carpenter would you call? 543: Well they'd call him sort of a jackleg #1 carpenter # Interviewer: #2 carpenter # I see and that meant that uh he wasn't a real carpenter 543: No sir that's right that's right. no sir he wasn't a good carpenter that's right. Interviewer: Uh-huh 543: he's what you call a Interviewer: Did you ever hear that applied to preacher 543: Uh yes sir right I sort of believe we've got some of 'em Interviewer: And uh that means he's not 543: Not not what he ought to be you know of course He's Interviewer: It's not quite clear to me what he's not a good man or? 543: No he's just not a good man that's right, that's right, that's right. Interviewer: Or he's not educated or 543: Well Interviewer: Uh 543: It could not be the education in Oxford because all of 'em don't have it you know it is {X} {NW} of course he just uh he's not a good man Interviewer: I see 543: That's right and he's just uh going through the job Interviewer: Because you're lucky 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: and likes to show off #1 I see oh I see # 543: #2 Yeah right right right that's right, yes sir. # Yes sir. Interviewer: Um and the things that you put in revolvers that you have a certain name not shells or bullets but uh uh things you put in guns 543: Uh c- I mean uh {NS} No no not cartridge {NW} You mean uh Interviewer: I think that's uh 543: #1 Cartridges # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Uh-huh and you call 'em cartridge 543: That's what we call 'em cartridges {NW} you know put it in the revolver that's cartridges Interviewer: I see 543: Of course you put them in a shot gun we call them shells you know yes sir. Interviewer: And uh the uh I meant to ask you uh when you were talking about shaving did you uh did you have anything to get your hair out of your eyes? 543: No sir no sir no sir {NW} No sir, that's right, sure didn't. Interviewer: Uh did you make anything 543: Well Interviewer: Around how did you? 543: {NW} Well Interviewer: how would women for example a man gotta get a haircut real short but what would a woman do? 543: Well I'll tell you sometimes some few of them had a comb {NW} and I'll tell you man sometimes some would have a comb sometimes some wouldn't and sometimes they would buy a comb so um they'd break it in two and donate it to the neighbors or something like that. Interviewer: Uh-huh 543: Yes sir Interviewer: Was it hard to come by? 543: Oh oh right right man {NW} it looked so pitiful in places {NW} I don't know yes sir that's what they would do back then in them times you know. {NW} and then sometimes they just wouldn't have it I am going to tell you what man it may seem funny that {NW} but too you know {NW} sometimes the husband would have a curl comb to curl the horses with probably you've seen them curly comb that you comb horses with {NW} and that's what a lot of the people would use and comb curl comb you know they got little teeth on them you know and that's what they would brush their hair with. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir comb their hair with of course you take some of the women you know they just had to do the best they could combing it which way they could with that curl comb. Interviewer: Oh really had to do for themselves 543: Oh man man right right yes sir {X} Interviewer: Um 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: I'd like to ask you also about the different kinds of fences you had uh do you remember the fences made? 543: Yes sir them rail fences, stacked railed fences Interviewer: #1 Did you ever hear anyone call them worm fences? # 543: #2 Yes sir # Well mostly, well I'll tell you that's what they {NW} wanted to call them you know them worm fences of course you know {NW} but we just all called them stacked rail fences Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: yes sir stacked rail fences {NW} {X} {D: make them into them there} Thing you know and haul {NW} Yes sir. Interviewer: And what uh what were they replaced by? 543: Other, other, other rails of course you know {NW} yeah when one of them rot go cut some more and uh and uh {X} {NW} or just jack up that at that rail and put in a new rail. Interviewer: Oh, you could just 543: Oh yes sir yes sir sure sure Interviewer: the whole 543: that's right yes sir yes sir. Interviewer: Around uh the garden what would you have? 543: Well uh-huh Interviewer: {X} 543: we'd go out there and cut uh some trees pretty good sized trees you know we had {X} yeah you know of course we had large tree {NW} and cut 'em so long long as you want 'em four, five, six foot long you know and split 'em up {NW} and split 'em in a way to {X} We had a fro We had a hand an uh fro it was sort of made in an L and uh we we'd derive palings out of that. Yes sir thin palings so thick you know {NW} yes sir we learned how to do that you know rive {X} and split it open, ride them {X} you know? Interviewer: Uh you mean you'd take a tree about this big? 543: Oh, larger than that #1 big tree, large tree you know # Interviewer: #2 Large oh I see # 543: #1 and then you spl- # Interviewer: #2 And then you just uh split up like this I see # 543: pieces what you have good and then take that fro then and uh split it just {NW} just narrow as you want them {X} you know just hit it start it in start it in get about half way in split it and bust it open {NW} where you then stick your fro in there and hit it down with another little {X} made you know. {NW} split off the palings you know. Turn it each way you want to go I made a many of paling {NW} Yes sir. Interviewer: {X} 543: And then and then {NW} of course you got the posters out there so you put the posters in {NW} and cut you some old rails split rails you know {NW} and turn 'em up edge the way to where you know the s- the square would you know s- would be up like {NW} trim 'em nail 'em to them posters then nail the palings to 'em. And make some good boards. {NW} Interviewer: Uh what what's the difference between pail fence and picket fence? 543: A picket fence, picket fence, don't know about the picket fences pailings Interviewer: Probably the same thing 543: Maybe maybe a new name they give to palings {NW} we call that a pailing because you make pailings yes sir Interviewer: Mm-hmm #1 When you # 543: #2 Yes sir # Interviewer: first got wire uh long ago was that? 543: Aw it's been aw it ain't been so many years ago we you know {NW} course some people had it you know, some but you know most of the people they didn't it ain't been so many years ago before they could get wire you know they still making palings you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: they was good. Interviewer: And you wired the pailings together or 543: Well we nailed 'em. We nailed 'em then you know. Yes sir. Interviewer: And how about the wire with the stickers on... 543: That barbed wire yes sir {NW} we didn't need that then of course uh that's what we put on the past the fence make it a big fence around a lot of the time and a lot of the time we put polls to make it past the fence for the cattle. Interviewer: I see it clearly you said uh... did you ever use the word metal for uh 543: Yeah, right, that's it, that's it yes sir this the metal you know that's what we call the where the Yes sir. Interviewer: Is that bad land or uh 543: Uh, well uh no sir no sir, I'll tell you what it is uh better the land is uh you know the better the grass will be the meadow will be you know Interviewer: Oh I 543: Yes sir. {NW} we just had to pick out a place you know to put the cattle you know {NW} of course they would pick out some good land you know it would be spotty you know {NW} better the land would be the more meadow the cow would have to eat Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir to graze on. Interviewer: And uh uh speaking of land I was wondering different kinds of you say you cleared a lot of land exactly what is bottom? 543: {NW} Bottom is down in the lower land down in the low country you know. Interviewer: #1 Now is that good # 543: #2 {X} # Interviewer: land 543: Yes sir that's good land that where they yes sir that's the bottom and that's the good land {NW} of course we cut on the ridge out on that hill and you know you know {NW} but that bottom land is down in the level land yes sir that's good land. Interviewer: Is uh uh is that swamp or uh 543: No sir, well I'll tell you what now you find some swamp {NW} but uh probably you gonna have you going to try to cultivate it {NW} you probably would have to cut you a ditch through that to drain it in that swamp land where it hit a drain you know and water go off of it {NW} of course you cut a ditch through it like I did my land down in what I got in there {NW} used to overflow a lot and swampy out in there you know {NW} and it got a drag line ditch cut down through there you know where it'll It'll drain the place standing up out there you know. It will soak down and drain off. You know and be dry that swampy land. Interviewer: Okay I see so I suppose you have a wet place in the middle of the field what do you call that uh? 543: Well they call it a s- sea kind of a wet place some call it kind of a spring seep you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: the water sort of {X} you know and makes a wet slash Interviewer: #1 Is that a marsh? # 543: #2 out there. # Interviewer: Or just call it a seep? 543: Yes well you call it a marsh you know sort of a marsh you know out in there you know where a kind of a wet sea place out in there Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: and probably you'll have to cut you a little ditch down through there you know to drain it off into some lower place. Interviewer: When you were a boy did they ever talk about fertile, fertile? 543: Fertilize Interviewer: Uh, fertile land did you ever talk about, did you ever use the word fertile 543: No, no you don't you don't mean fertilize you know something to Interviewer: Uh, fertile to describe land as being 543: Fertile Interviewer: yes 543: No sir, no sir no sir we didn't know nothing about that back then No sir. Interviewer: And, um the different kinds of soil that you've got, the kind that's uh breaks up in your hands easily what what do you call that uh? 543: Well kind of a uh {NW} sandy land like Interviewer: Yeah part sand part. 543: Well it's clay, right, you know yes sir that's right Interviewer: And do you have a name for that or did you? 543: No no oh no called aluminum soil Interviewer: Let me ask you 543: Yes... Interviewer: the uh uh I heard loan and buckshot 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: and gumbo 543: yes sir that's right Interviewer: Are they all the same thing? 543: Well pretty well that buckshot land well the buckshot land is kind of {X} {NW} Buckshot land has got little old small little old rocks in it Interviewer: Oh, I see 543: Just small little crumbs of rocks they call that buckshot land {NW} it don't grow to stuff too well Interviewer: #1 {X} # 543: #2 {X} # This Interviewer: Lungs pretty good is it? 543: Yes sir, yes sir that's right, that's pretty good, you know yes sir. #1 Yes sir. # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 543: Yes sir Interviewer: And uh I'll tell you uh something uh you told me how you harvested oats and you tied 'em together uh did you ever have the difference between shocks and sheers and things like that 543: Well that's that's the same thing that's about the same thing. Interviewer: And what, what do you do uh what kind of corn shock, could you describe that? 543: Well of co- wait {NW} yes sir, I'll tell you what now corn shocks is something like this {NW} of course you can cut the whole stalk if you want to and shock it up it's good much better {NW} but if you just want to cut them tops off it you can shock them you see {NW} well you can cut this whole corn stalk off {NW} yeah then you can you can put it in big shocks like that and tie you a string or rope what's the name around it you know and it'll stay out there in the field all the weather {NW} you know if you you know didn't want and of course the stalk can eat off it right there you know {NW} what these oats is is when you {NW} they got uh something fastened we did have you know something fastened on a a blade it's got a long handle in it and it's crooked you know {NW} and uh that blade you know you you you sling it but you got to get used to it {NW} and it's got a cradle on there or something that holds that metal when they cut them {NW} and sort of pulls them around in a little {X} {NW} when you throw that cradle out you know and cut them oats and take this hand and just rake them out you know {NW} in a little barn. {NW} Yes sir just cut that and rake them out and throw them down in a little barn and then you can go back you know oh there'd be the barns about like that every rake every stroke you make {NW} course that's the way you know we did because we didn't have these here things that uh mowers and a lot of stuff like that they come by some things you come by those now {NW} but that's what we did then {NW} we throw it out there you know and just rake that barn in {NW} where we {X} drop them down there you know and just keep it going rock them down where you can go back and tie them down to the old truck in the tie 'em you know {NW} and it would be in barns about like that and it would be more easy to handle you know. Interviewer: Did you stack them together uh? 543: Well you can just after you tie 'em up in the field then you can take 'em out you're supposed to take them on out and then haul them out to the barn put them up in the barn you know. #1 to feed them # Interviewer: #2 I see. # 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh so they just stay in the field till they dry and then you take 543: Well of course now there's there's {X} {NW} you know whenever you get them cut Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir Interviewer: Don't cut them until they're dry 543: No sir no sir well well well you know till it gets sort of dry you know right you don't cut them till {NW} by the time and then that's in the it's hot summer time too cause they'll uh soon dry enough you know at that time of year yes you cut 'em in the bottom you know {NW} we just cut 'em and just lay 'em there and then go back and tie to where you can have them you know in the barn. Interviewer: And uh when it came a time to break the land in the spring would you describe what you do with that uh came a time in the spring to really break the land the crops what... how would you do that uh would you tell me something about that? 543: Now what they plant uh just any crop or Interviewer: Yes any any 543: Well you #1 Take # Interviewer: #2 What are the steps # 543: Yes sir, well you take you know the way they do now you know {NW} Well #1 Well you gonna take # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 543: Back yonder Interviewer: Really more 543: #1 back yonder # Interviewer: #2 {NW} yes # Mm-hmm 543: back yonder you uh we'd get the mules up you know and we'd uh get out there we'd hitch them to a turning plow {NW} now sometimes we'd hitch two to one big two horse plow we call it {NW} and then some why we'd hitch them to a one horse turning plow {NW} and we'd get out there and we'd flat break that land good you know {NW} where we take our dragger section out and drag it off good {NW} and then we'd take our middle buster and we'd row it up and then of course you know if we're going to use fertilize {NW} but {NW} back yonder several years we didn't have to use fertilizer we just planted on that {X} {NW} and of course we {NW} if the if there'd come much of a rain after we'd get it up we'll we'd go right back there with the middle buster and throw it back and drag it off and plant it run the planter {X} {NW} drop it uh {X} {NW} most of the time we would take uh we'd bed it up we'd drag it off level we'd open it with a plow and some of us would take the seed and drop it there and it would come along with a {X} Interviewer: I see uh and you call this uh thing you cut with a plow you call that uh 543: A rope Interviewer: A rope 543: That's right that what we done flat broadcasting. Interviewer: That's just the oh I see 543: Yes sir after we done broadcasted and broke it up we we we take this middle buster and row it up in rows Interviewer: Mm-hmm and call that a row or?s 543: Rows we call that rows that's right we call that rows Interviewer: A row 543: Beds. Interviewer: Is is a row the same as a throw then 543: Yes sir, right, right, right, right, that's right Interviewer: I see 543: Yeah and in rows that way and then we take one of the little plows the smaller plows and we rip them beds {NW} and drop the seed in there whatever we got the plant and then come along with another little {X} drags over there and levels it off and then it come up. Interviewer: What did you call a horse on the left did you have a special name for him? 543: Well of course you know of course we you know there'd be different names you know of course you know {NW} uh called it maybe a a mule or horse or you know maybe named Kate. Interviewer: {D: I was thinking somebody told me that uh the horse on the left was so important because he was the weedle horse} 543: Of course. {NW} that's whenever you a wheel horse of course you know when we that's that's whenever you got maybe four. Interviewer: Oh more than two 543: Right, yes sir. that wheel horse there and that there on the left that's the one you mostly ride you know and {X} guide the other two's in front {NW} you have two to the wheel and uh then two out in the lead hitched on end of the tongue in front of them {NW} that's a four horse team Interviewer: {D: That's more than tw-} 543: Yes right, right, yes sir. And this one on the left is mostly the one that you know you use and you let them {X} guide the wagon wheel horse. Interviewer: Uh did you ever stack hay outside for the animals? 543: Many times Interviewer: And what side? 543: Shock shocks of hay hay shocks Interviewer: Did you ever build anything up on uh a kind of rack and so the animals could get under 543: Yes sir that's right we call that a pen a hay hay rack we call that a hay rack. Interviewer: Ah 543: Yes sir that's right. Interviewer: I see and uh after you planted the clover or grass and you can go back over it a second time and get a second 543: Yes sir that's right Interviewer: what do you call that second uh 543: Well well it's the second harvest over at the crop you know the second crop. Interviewer: Uh did they ever call it a after math or 543: Well they might have this late late years {X} we'd call it back then Interviewer: Second 543: Second crop yes sir. Second cutting or something like that Interviewer: And when you grew cotton uh and you want to get the weeds out the hole what did you call that 543: Chopping chopping cotton that's right yes sir. Called it chopping cotton Interviewer: What kind of weeds did you have? 543: We had different kinds uh {NW} some folks would call it rag weeds we did you know and {NW} then {X} and morning glories and all such as that. Interviewer: Uh the uh when it came time after the harvest to take a certain amount of corn into the mill what would you uh would you describe that uh want to take some corn in just enough for the family 543: Oh yes sir man I've done many that {NS} yes sir we take it uh we'd go in uh and put it in the barn of course when we get it and then we would go to the uh {NW} crib and we'd shuck it get the shucks off of it and uh we was lucky to have a corn sheller {NS} back there in some of them olden time {NS} we'd put in that corn sheller put that cor- ear of corn down in there and had it turning and it had the box on it you know that that that wheel would cut that {NW} shell that corn off of that cob and cob would drop out yes sir we'd shell it {NS} shell us a sack or barrel of corn {NW} and then put in the wagon and go to the mill grease mill they called it and uh they would uh run in and put in the mill they would measure it up in some kind of container {NW} and they would grind it for a percentage of it Yes sir probably a fifth of it Interviewer: Oh is that right 543: Yes sir that's right that's what we had to pay the fifth of it for them to grind it up in mill {NW} yes sir they'd grind it up and put it back in the sack or barrel and then we'd take off home. Interviewer: Mm-hmm did you ever call that amount turn 543: Yeah oh yes sir that's right carry a turn of corn to the mill Interviewer: About how much would be turned 543: Well I'll tell you what we we when we would call it a turn {NW} oh it's something like a bushel or sometime half a bushel and a sack that's why we ride horse back a lot of times {NW} when the family was small Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir that's a turn of corn in a sack or something like that something like a bushel about half a bushel or something Interviewer: Pretty easy to carry then? 543: Oh yes sir yes sir that's right. {NW} Interviewer: And uh the the barrel that you'd have or how did you keep the meal or the flour did you keep it in a in a barrel or did you keep in a sack? 543: Well I'll tell you what the most time uh after I grew up and my family was large and my daddy you know {X} {NW} where he'd keep it in a barrel {NW} yes sir and take the head out and of course nail some strips across the wood {NW} they stay together and you know put it on the keep it over the top of the flour barrel you know {NW} the flour barrel you know that's what he used for meal barrel after he used all the flour out he'd take it for meal barrel too {NW} and of course we'd keep the flour in a barrel or small barrel or large barrel either one you know we'd have {NW} that's what we'd keep it in till we use it out. Interviewer: Mm-hmm...I see 543: Yes Interviewer: Uh why did he meal all the time? Didn't he have anything around this? 543: Well of course you see {NW} when you turn that top out why it's it's in sections it's made in sections the planks you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: and of course it's cut out around you know {NW} when you when you tear it out while they'll all fall apart {NW} you put a little strip across that and hold 'em together. Interviewer: Did they have anything around? 543: Well that was around the barrel yes they had hoops around the barrel {NW} but the head of it you know that's where we would go into it you know through one end of it we call it #1 sinner # Interviewer: #2 Oh sure I see. # 543: I see yes sir yes sir that's right set it up on the end Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir Interviewer: Uh and what's uh what did you have uh what did you call a smaller barrel that you keep nails in? 543: Nail kegs Interviewer: That's uh 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh and did uh molasses did you buy molasses or did you make your own? 543: We made our molasses raised 'em yes sir that's raised 'em Interviewer: And what would you keep the molasses in? 543: Well most of the time whenever they finally got up along we'd keep in a barrel of course sometimes we'd have kegs twenty gallon or ten gallon kegs {NW} you know just small barrels you know and that's what we'd keep them in. Interviewer: And if you had molasses on the table what would you keep it in there 543: On the table Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir we'd keep it uh um uh some kind of fruit jar or something or another back then you know {NW} we'd draw out the barrel in a gallon bucket or something or other like that and uh you set it {D: in the kitchen some place or other and then pull in that} that old fruit jar and set it on the table Interviewer: Mm-hmm I see 543: Right, yes sir. Interviewer: and uh what did you use to get the what do you call what did you use to get the molasses from the pale into the fruit jar? 543: {NW} Well uh #1 tell you what now # Interviewer: #2 Went through something # 543: {NS} Uh no sir that we didn't then sir of course now {NW} we fixed the barrel where we'd lay the barrel down and there was a hole in it you know to pull the stopper out {NW} and they would just run down into that bucket And we'd when they get a bucket full just stick that stopper back in there you know a round piece of wood that fits in there {NW} and just put it in there and it'd cut them off {NW} we'd put the get us some blocks and lay the barrel on top of it you know to where it'd be up to where we can handle it you know {NW} and just pull that stopper out and let the bucket run full Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: Yes sir and then just put the stopper back in and just cut 'em off Interviewer: And then then from the pale into the fruit jar ... 543: Yes sir well we'd usually just turn it up you know and pour it gradually to where it'd go into the fruit jar you know small Interviewer: #1 Did you have anything like a # 543: #2 string. # Interviewer: um tumbler or a something with a wide mouth that 543: #1 Oh yes sir # Interviewer: #2 Taper down # 543: Oh yes sir yes sir yes sir yes sir that's right. Interviewer: Would you use that? 543: Aw yes sir now we could use that sometimes you know a faucet a funnel a faucet what's maybe you would call that Interviewer: I see 543: yeah that's the same thing. Interviewer: But was it made out of wood 543: Tin yeah tin, yes sir. {X} we could make that and just cut you out a piece of tin and put it around there {NW} and stick some holes in it and get you some short layers and cut 'em off and brad it together oh it'd be tight Interviewer: I 543: Makes it to that Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: And uh you used the stopper in the barrel what would you use in the bottle same uh? 543: Yes sir the same thing well in a bottle you know Interviewer: Right 543: well uh {NW} that lid you could take it in the bottle mostly had a lid on it you know and you know this could uh just wreck it down over there you know and that would cut it off and screw it back there Interviewer: I see uh now other bottles did you have uh uh how did you stop up smaller bottles with uh 543: Aw man take corn cob That was good Interviewer: #1 Oh I see! # 543: #2 The corn # Cob stop works Interviewer: I see uh I suppose glass, glass stoppers pretty hard to come by 543: Oh yes sir yes sir that's right sure sure Interviewer: Did you have any corks 543: No sir well I'll tell you what there weren't not too many corks we used them you know cobs in there like yeah {NW} course might could get a few of them cork stoppers you know but it's making out uh Interviewer: You had to use what you had 543: That's right, right, right that's right yes sir Yes sir. Interviewer: Different kinds of uh sacks uh bags would you explain that for example somebody was telling me about uh a towsack and I'm not just clear yet on uh what a toe sack is? 543: Yes sir that's right uh these old some folks call them a grass sack it's the same thing {NW} made out of this here grass looking twine it's knitted you know factory knitted you know it looks like sort of a grass kind of a grass sea grass sea grass Interviewer: I see 543: {X} Interviewer: Pretty rough 543: Yes sir right right right that's right yes sir. Interviewer: What would come in that bag? 543: Well uh now I'll tell you uh feed now the most of it comes in horse feed now what they you know makes that horse feed and the cow feed too you know that makes them sacks and puts them in Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: and too now they're going to make them plastic bags which you take back yonder man tow sacks then {NW} why they didn't they were scarce back then {NW} did a lot of this stuff they making now we didn't have it back yonder it wasn't Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: No sir Interviewer: What's a Kroger sack? 543: That's the same thing Croaker sack that's the we old folks call them croaker sacks and tow {NW} the we used call it that's what we used to call it croaker sacks back yonder Interviewer: Oh that's the older 543: Yes the older name. Interviewer: I see 543: They coming on down with these towsacks grass sacks now that's the style they've got we called them tow sacks back yonder Interviewer: I see uh will you go to um the store uh when you were a boy you go trading would you have any of the paper that you said they wrap up things in paper did they have any bags or sacks? 543: Well not too much back then {NW} no sir usually we had a lot of stuff without that {NW} and maybe some kind of old paper just mostly any kind Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: and that would do. Interviewer: Uh today uh you don't call you call it a paper and there's a towsack but a paper a paper bag is that uh yeah when you go to the grocery today do you... 543: Paper bag Interviewer: Paper bag 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: But uh that's so common its hard to think that you never had never 543: Right Interviewer: #1 Never had them # 543: #2 Right # That's right. Interviewer: #1 But you you # 543: #2 Sure sure # Interviewer: when you buy things at the grocery you wouldn't get bag. #1 Get a bag # 543: #2 No sir # No sir no sir maybe they find an old pace wood box yeah some of that stuff come in where they save them course this pile all this stuff in that pace wood box Interviewer: #1 I see save on bags # 543: #2 Right oh yes sir # yes sir yes sir Interviewer: I see 543: Yes sir that's right Interviewer: Uh and how how would you mentioning this how would you buy oh sugar from the store how would that come? 543: Well I'll tell you what they would have a little bag of sugar {NW} we didn't use so much sugar back ya then {NW} but uh they would get us some kind of a bucket or something or other and b- we we we'd haul we'd carry sugar home in buckets {NW} of course we'd bring some see they'd have sugar in barrels of sugar at the store or maybe sacks of sugar barrels mostly {NW} and get something or another to put it in Interviewer: Mm-hmm 543: maybe uh some jars did Interviewer: Anything you can carry it 543: Right yes sir just anything you would have to carry mostly to put in Interviewer: You that would be uh buying a thing that's uh not packaged but in 543: books books right yes sir yes sir that's right that's why the done the mostly Interviewer: What that means is you you put it in anything that you had to 543: Right right yes sir glad to hung up something or other to put it in yes sir Interviewer: I see 543: #1 That's right # Interviewer: #2 Uh # Uh well I'll tell you have been I don't have very much to go here ordinarily... Ordinarily 543: #1 I say # Interviewer: #2 Don't say as much # longer uh I would like to finish with you I don't think it will take us this long but you really uh you know exactly what I'm looking for and you've been very helpful. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh so let me uh I can see you again and get a few more questions on the lion and a few questions about uh the house and food that you would eat. 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: Uh and I think we can finish it up in another session 543: Well good then yes sir cause I'm going to have to go now to get around to the where the office you know where I live I got to {NW} be there whenever they quit and take it over cause they don't shut the doors and all. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 543: And I'm going to get around yeah and uh when {NW} when you think you could have a change to go some more what Interviewer: Any... any time I'll arrange uh let's uh as I say you really have been helpful I would like to finish with you uh and make a complete picture of how life used to be 543: Yes sir Interviewer: So uh whenever you say uh I'll I'll arrange uh tomorrow I'd like that lady you were talking about uh 543: Oh yes sir yes right, that's right. Interviewer: You know her? uh 543: {NW} Really I don't by name but I guess I know her but not by name cause well I meet several people have come in over there you know {NW} and I'm around there fixed with a meeting sitting up front and all {B} would be a good time to meet her Interviewer: tomorrow? 543: Yes sir. Interviewer: I don't know but I'll check it um well you've you've become here will you be there tomorrow or you have any time tomorrow or not Or if you're free on Sunday how are you 543: No sir I wouldn't be this this Sunday because my son is coming from St. Louis down here and we are going to be tied up for this Sunday {NS} let me see Interviewer: Could I see you maybe a couple...