Interviewer:  About the harrow. Uh by using the harrow.
556:  That was smooth off the top of the rope.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Uh they did you have names for the different {X} with two mules or two horses? Did you have a name for the left? One for the right?
556:  Oh yeah, all the horses and mules had a
Interviewer:  I I don't mean a proper name, but uh uh did you call the left or lead horse?
556:  Yeah, lead horse lead horse always on the right.
Interviewer:  On the right?
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Oh and how about {NS} you said that you didn't uh have much to do with small greens. Uh did you ever grow must have raised oats?
556:  No, my grandfather never he he uh he he raised corn and cotton. Peas and peanuts. Watermelons and of course he had an enormous garden, everything in the world in that garden, but he never he never raised oats for some reason. Neither one of 'em ever fooled with oats. They raised cotton and corn and of course cotton was a cash crop and corn was to feed the stock on. Always had a lot of mules and horses
Interviewer:  Did you ever watch uh any threshing going on in those days?
556:  Didn't have a thing to thresh. No oats, no oats, no wheat. Nothing like that.
Interviewer:  {D: The uh probably seen big steam}
556:  Oh yeah.
Interviewer:  Things since then.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Uh. {C: clearing throat} To harvest the uh the grass, uh would you explain how that was done?
556:  We had a mowing machine. He had a mowing the earliest mowing machines with the pad horses, you know? You you see how to work this use this mowing machine to cut the grass let the grass dry and then take or a big rake and rake it up into stacks. Make hay stacks and and you'd stack it you know out on a pole and it was impervious to water. And
Interviewer:  Yeah, when you before you raked it up, did you have it cut in certain
556:  Wind rows.
Interviewer:  Wind rows?
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Then you break it up. What would be the next step?
556:  Uh uh rake it up and stack it. Uh you'd putting up by putting it a lot of it was put in the barn. And see when you filled the loft up, then you stacked it. Big pole maybe twenty feet high. It was stacked around that pole.
Interviewer:  But you never stacked it in the field itself?
556:  Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer:  First.
556:  In the yeah.
Interviewer:  It serve as
556:  You put all you could in the barn, and then what you had left over, you stacked it.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  And the cows eat off it in the winter. They'd go down and eat it off, you know.
Interviewer:  And did you ever have poles say four poles like this and four like this? To make a kind of shelter.
556:  #1 No, nothing just #
Interviewer:  #2 It's uh # And you mentioned growing uh cotton. Did you uh what exactly is does it mean to chop cotton?
556:  Hoe it with a hoe.
Interviewer:  Uh.
556:  #1 When I was about #
Interviewer:  #2 Just to cut the weeds out #
556:  Oh yeah. And then the plow and the sweep came along, got the middle. But when I was a kid, I kept after my grandfather that I want to raise some cotton this year on my own. I ought to make some money on my own, so he said, "Alright." And by the way, we'd kind of make it and say I'd go back each summer, spend the summer up there. So he'd I'll have the cotton, I'll have you two acres plowed and planted and when you get here, you take over. So I did. And I worked myself to death out. He gave me a mule and a plow, and a I chopped it out myself and plowed it. And it was beautiful cotton you had about that high. And one night the army ones crossed the road.
Interviewer:  {NW}
556:  And the next day, I didn't have any cotton. They ate every living millions and millions of 'em. So that was the extent of my farming on my own. The arm of the ones. Those things came across the road in countless millions. You could the road will be covered with 'em. And they ate up every leaf off of my cotton and I, instead of making three or four bales like I thought I was going to make, I think I made less than a bale. I had to put put mine with one of his bales to make a bale. Oh, it broke my heart.
Interviewer:  Uh you spoke of grass. Uh how about how many crops uh or grass would you get off a field?
556:  A cutting? Well, it would depend altogether on the weather we had good rain lots of rain, we'd get two or three cuttings it off the grass. It was Johnson grass, and
Interviewer:  Johnson.
556:  Yeah, and you'd get two or three cuttings. You want to cut it before it went to seed. And also Another thing was they fodder 'em off of the corn stalks. They would pool the fodder, as they called it, and put it up into hands like the back of hands. Bend the stalk over and hook that hand on the stalk until it cured. And then they would go then and tie it up into bundles. Four or five hands made a bundle of it. And that was a bundle. So many bundles of fodder. And I told you about a year and twelve years of calling it a bundle of fodder for each mule that was wasn't a bundle. They liked that uh stock liked that fodder. They'd eat it. Was mule it cured. Corn leaves off the corn.
Interviewer:  You mentioned uh having barrels of uh molasses. Did you keep anything in uh in smaller barrels uh or how would you keep nails? How would you buy nails?
556:  Nails?
Interviewer:  Yes.
556:  Well, of course nails came in kegs, but we never did we'd just buy a few pounds of nails. You never bought a keg never had much use for that many of 'em that's same they're all the same size in a keg.
Interviewer:  And then uh speaking of molasses barrel, how did you get the molasses out?
556:  Had a bum. A wooden uh you your had a wooden faucet. See they made molasses a normal way where you had a molasses mill, see? {NS} Where the keen was ground. And it was uh with a mule you know. Round and round. Somebody had to drive that mule in in a circle. And they fed the keen into between two steel steel rowers. And the juice ran off into a barrel. And then when the juice was then put in the pan. A big A big copper pan I reckon it's four feet wide and maybe eight feet long and you built a fire under there, and that had to be an expert to know just when to turn the molasses out of that pan. If you panned it if you let it out too soon, it was sour. If you let it any too late, it would turn to sugar, so it had to come out just as and we had an old nigger who was expert on it. He would skim it, you know and watch it and taste it and said, "Alright, it's ready!" Let it pour out. And we used to take cold biscuit to the mill and eat that hot molasses with cold biscuit. We thought that was good.
Interviewer:  Uh, how did you get rid of the smoke uh in the heat?
556:  It had a at the end it was see it was built up by brick, you know. The pan was on top of that and it was stack on the end. Went low, just a crude. So the smoke went out the stack and you fired it with just wood just keep throwing wood on under there. And it would boil and simmer and foam and it had to keep it skimmed, had a skimmer. They would skim the foam off, you know. {NS} And this old nigger would he'd watch it very closely and there as I say if you overcook it, it would turn to sugar. And if you undercooked it, it was sour, so it had to be just exactly right.
Interviewer:  Right. Where did you get the barrels and how were they made there?
556:  They were just wooden barrels. You know, I don't know where he got those barrels from. We got uh I imagine those barrels full had vinegar in 'em were wooden barrels. And it was uh Had uh Put a big funnel at the top and poured it in those barrels and then The barrels were kept in the smoke house and molasses and Had a wooden spigot on it, you know to let molasses out at the bottom.
Interviewer:  The the barrels or how were they made? Just the regular
556:  Just wooden barrels.
Interviewer:  Staves?
556:  Mm-hmm. Staves. Now had two kinds of molasses. Sorghum and ribbon cane. That that sorghum molasses when it was fresh, it was pretty good. But we that's the niggers usually used the sorghum, and there wasn't much ribbon cane, you know that uh Blue ribbon cane, that was very fine molasses uh I still like it.
Interviewer:  Wait, does that grow around?
556:  #1 Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
556:  {NS} Ribbon cane, he called it. Sugar cane. Same as the canes grown around in Louisiana.
Interviewer:  And uh {NS} the {C: clearing throat} different ways of stopping up uh bottles. What uh
556:  {C: laughing} Cobs.
Interviewer:  Cobs? Uh-huh.
556:  {X}
Interviewer:  {X} hard to come by or?
556:  Chalk was hard to come by. Cob was so had and so plentiful you'd just
Interviewer:  Ah.
556:  Or you'd use a cob
Interviewer:  You have any uh to ever stop anything up with glass?
556:  Glass?
Interviewer:  Yes. Glass stoppers.
556:  Well, we had ground glass uh vinegar cruets, for instance. And think that's I still got some of the old vinegar cruets. I I've got three there right now. The vinegar cruets always had a ground glass stopper.
Interviewer:  {NS} The different sacks uh do you remember kinds of sacks and bags?
556:  Well, the bags are made out of Ozenberg. We made 'em. Buy so much Oz of the cotton sacks, for instance. Then that they pick cotton in. They made 'em. Right there on the place. They'd buy Ozenberg and make these sacks with a big strap that'd drag out behind you, you know.
Interviewer:  And how about the uh things that you'd buy in the store? Uh feed or fertilizer or potatoes or uh
556:  Hmm. Well, I tell you we raised practically everything on a place we had to eat. Had everything we had plenty of potatoes, all kinds of vegetables and onions and stuff and dried. Uh. Cause our nearest uh Store was about a mile and a half, a little place called Fairport, Mississippi, and we we bought sure well we used to buy sugar by the barrel to keep sugar at home. But sometimes we we bought coffee and we just uh. {NS} Just common groceries. Grow coffee and flour and sugar and stuff.
Interviewer:  Uh, what kind of thing uh thing it appears to in here are toe sacks, croaker sacks.
556:  Yeah, we yeah we used those we'd we'd get stuff in 'em.
Interviewer:  Well, which is which uh.
556:  Well uh we called 'em croker sacks.
Interviewer:  Croaker sacks?
556:  Croaker sacks. But now the other sacks that we used for for picking cotton in and different things like that were made right there on the place. My grandfather would buy this Ozenberg, which was a coarse, heavy, cotton fabric, you know? And just sew up these sacks with but then for the cotton sacks, put a strap about that wide and went over your shoulder and its sack drug out behind him, maybe six feet long.
Interviewer:  And how about uh in a store, did you have things made out of paper? Or in other words, how how were
556:  Things packed?
Interviewer:  Yes.
556:  Of course things were mostly packed in bulk in those days. For instance, crackers or any or mostly in bulk dried fruits everything in the package hadn't come along that time. It was mostly everything in bulk.
Interviewer:  And you'd buy things and put them in the paper bags?
556:  Yeah, oh yeah. Paper bags. And I used to buy we used to buy thirty pounds of coffee in the crack. Put it in a big paper bag. Thirty pounds. And it it had to go in the grinder, you know. Coffee mill. Grind. {NW} And my grandmother times would buy green coffee parch it herself, but she that was supposed to be much better coffee, you know. Partial little it'll be fresher, you know. Partial little at the time and grind it but I don't know, we finally got
Interviewer:  Lot of your family drank coffee uh how? How, put anything in it?
556:  Oh yeah, cream and sugar.
Interviewer:  Uh, if they drank it uh Someone would drink it without cream
556:  Some of 'em drink it without anything. Black yeah, I know some of 'em would but
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear anybody call it barefoot or
556:  {NS}
Interviewer:  Barefoot coffee?
556:  I've heard the expression, but we didn't use it.
Interviewer:  Have you uh you've heard the expression?
556:  I've heard the expression.
Interviewer:  Uh, it means straight or black.
556:  Straight, drink it straight.
Interviewer:  Rich with aurora and uh the west, what's uh the closet thing to an aurora around this area?
556:  There's plenty of 'em out here in right on the edge of the county between here and Winston. While there's some you could throw this house in out there. Bigger than that some of 'em a hundred feet deep right out here.
Interviewer:  What I'm interested in are the terms for
556:  Gullies.
Interviewer:  Gullies?
556:  Yeah, that's they're gullies.
Interviewer:  You ever call them a ravine?
556:  Ravines and gullies. Yeah, they've called 'em ravines and and gully in fact there's a post office in this county that's called Ravine, Mississippi. {X}
Interviewer:  And {C: clearing throat} something smaller than a creek it would be a
556:  Well up in Virginia, they call them runs.
Interviewer:  Runs?
556:  I still have lots of relatives up in Virginia up there a few years ago and this we wanted to go out to the chase and one of the {NS} relatives say well the runs out of the bank. I didn't know what he was talking about. A run. It's a creek. I said, you mean a
Interviewer:  Still use the word branch? Yeah, I use branch. Branch and creek.
556:  A a branch is smaller than a creek. Goes a river. River, creek, branch.
Interviewer:  Different kinds of trees uh walnut trees
556:  Well, cause we had worlds of pine trees and by the way, my first cousin told me he had just shortened it at the old pasture. She was over forty-five-thousand dollars of those pine trees in that pasture. And yeah, they were covered with pines. We had pines, oak, hickory. Scaly barks we used to rub together. Scaly barks. {NS} Nuts and of it. I still think that's the best nut in the world, the scaly bark.
Interviewer:  That's the small
556:  Yeah, I've got some out there now.
Interviewer:  {C: clearing throat} Uh, any walnuts?
556:  Oh yeah. We raised lots of walnuts. I we had a lot of walnut trees and my grandfather had a barrel with a hole cut in it the top we'd when the walnuts fell, we'd dry 'em through this hole and take the outer hub off. Put in that hole, take a hammer. And I'd take off that outer hull. We'd get all stained up with that walnut juice.
Interviewer:  Way to dye uh.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Ever had pecans? Uh
556:  Yeah, we had pecans. Yeah. The paper shells hadn't come along at that time. We just had the small native pecans.
Interviewer:  You call uh a tree sycamore or buttonwood or?
556:  Sycamores. Uh now button buttonwood or the bush it grows around the edge of Lakes. Buttonwoods.
Interviewer:  And {C: clearing throat} things that are poisonous uh
556:  Poison ivy.
Interviewer:  And bush and bushes that turn red in the fall. Those could be poisonous. Or or is it not?
556:  The only poison I knew was poison ivy, and that was terrible. And for some reason, I was immune to it. It didn't bother I never would never bother me at all. {NS} But I've seen them get that poison ivy and man it was horrible oh oh yeah boy.
Interviewer:  Did you have sumac or shoe-make?
556:  Yeah, yeah.
Interviewer:  Which do you say uh?
556:  Sumac. And the first time I called I heard it called shumoc, my wife had a breaking out and went to a skin specialist and really he said you know honey, you really been around shoe-make. And we did have some he called it shumoc. We always called it sumac.
Interviewer:  Uh.
556:  This doctor called it shumoc.
Interviewer:  Uh, know that used to call it shumoc.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Regularly and and in fact they'd say that uh Uh it was used to dye for leather. Shoe-makers use it.
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  As a dye. Uh and uh the cucumber tree. Are you familiar with that? Uh
556:  Not a tree. {NS} A vine.
Interviewer:  {C: clearing throat} The uh anything that cows eat that are supposed to be poisonous?
556:  Buckeye.
Interviewer:  Buckeye?
556:  Yeah, buckeye's very poisonous. {NS} My father always carried one of his {X}
Interviewer:  Oh, I've {X}
556:  He he just as soon go out without his trousers as without his buckeye.
Interviewer:  {X}
556:  And I still got that superstitious care.
Interviewer:  It'd be good for arthritis also.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  #1 It's to uh uh I grew up in Ohio, which is the buckeye state and you're supposed to keep off arthritis with #
556:  #2 Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right. # Well, that buckeye's my father always carried one in his pocket for good luck. Uh that's the native buckeye. And that tree was poison if a cat ate that tree, it was it was poisonous.
Interviewer:  You have anything around by the name of uh laurel or anything like that that?
556:  No, laurel trees mostly up in the into Tennessee and Virginia. Lots of laurels up there, but we have very few here. {C: clearing throat}
Interviewer:  And {C: clearing throat} insects that uh sting
556:  Oh boy, did a hornet ever sting you? An insect at a wasps. Hornets, yellow jackets. All them yellow jackets. They all would sting. But a hornet is I think it's the most painful sting in the world is a hornet. You see he pops his stinger in you, and you can't get it out. Like a hook. You have to pull him off. I had one to sting me right there, and he just buzz and couldn't get loose. It's just like ramming a hot iron in your arm.
Interviewer:  The uh hornet has the uh nest
556:  I I have I have if you have time to see my museum, I'll show you, too. I've got one cut open. Over sixty-thousand to each one of 'em.
Interviewer:  That's right. And how about the uh the ones that made have nests in uh logs and {X}?
556:  Wasps.
Interviewer:  Is that the the wasp?
556:  There there's several different varieties of wasps and yellow jackets. The different varieties and nests in different places. I destroyed two out there in my carport yesterday. Wasps nests. By the way, I got stung several times right there last summer so I want to avoid it this time. So I sprayed 'em yesterday.
Interviewer:  Uh the uh other bug that's carries malaria, what's is it usually called?
556:  Well, that was the stegomyia mosquito carried yellow fever. Yellow yellow fever was the uh Stegomyia you know mosquito. And uh. {C: bird noises} Course they finally found out what caused yellow fever. Took 'em a long time. {C: bird noises} They didn't know what I remember the last yellow fever scare we ever had in Macon. I was just the child. They had guards on all the roads and, they didn't know what they were doing till they found out what caused it was um it was um it was the stegomyia mosquito.
Interviewer:  Said you used to keep everybody out.
556:  Yeah, they didn't want it wouldn't have by the way, I still have uh Uh certificates to get on the train here cert a doctor would certify this man hasn't been exposed the nigger the niggers called 'em stiff tickets, certificates. They'd go down to the station. You got your stiff ticket? Certificate, and I had one of those doctor certificates right now. That would issue this man has not been exposed to yellow fever, signed so and so, M.D. Had to have that before you got on the train.
Interviewer:  Ticket need to get out.
556:  {NW}
Interviewer:  Little bugs uh that uh burrow into the skin and raise up a welt.
556:  Ticks. Ticks.
Interviewer:  Ticks?
556:  {X} {C: laughing} I got a scar right there from one.
Interviewer:  Now uh is do you have anything that's smaller than a tick uh
556:  Red bugs. Chiggers.
Interviewer:  Alright they they it's they burrow under
556:  Yeah, chiggers. You get covered with those. I've had a million on me. Especially go out in the weeds and grass and you get 'em on you and then and then the thing to do is to get in a bath of extreme salty water get rid of 'em. They'll they'll just eat you alive, little tiny things. Chiggers. We called 'em red bugs when I was a child. That and boll weevils and army worms. Oh boy.
Interviewer:  {C: laughing} Uh, bugs that uh jump uh
556:  Crickets. Grasshoppers.
Interviewer:  Now do uh did the colored people call uh grasshoppers, did they refer as that?
556:  They would call them hopper grasses.
Interviewer:  #1 Now am I is this right the the uh whites would call them grasshoppers consistently. #
556:  #2 Yeah. # Yeah.
Interviewer:  But uh negroes would call 'em
556:  Hopper grasses.
Interviewer:  Hopper grass
556:  Just like they wouldn't say woodpecker. They'd say peckerwoods. {C: laughing}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. You have any idea of why that was or any?
556:  I don't know they well you take the term butterfly the the the original name for it was flutter by. Butterflies were flutterbies for a hundred years. I don't know how it got turned around into butterfly, but they were flutterbies. I don't know how they got that peckerwood and hopper grasses turned around.
Interviewer:  And uh difference between a spiderweb and a {X} web and cobweb {X}
556:  No, we called 'em spiderwebs or cobwebs yeah when they There used to be an old lady here called 'em cobwebs. And she'd get 'em out of the chimney and she's if you cut your hands, you'd always get some cobwebs out of the chimney and put that with the soot on that cut. She claimed that was the best remedy there was for a cut. Cobwebs out of the chimney. With the black soot on it now. I don't know how that worked, but I've had to put it on my cut on my arm. Slap it on there and wrap it up, you know. That'll cure it.
Interviewer:  {NS} How about uh {C: clearing throat} bugs that flutter around the light.
556:  Candle flies.
Interviewer:  {C: clearing throat} And the ones that uh in their one state they eat your clothes, especially wool.
556:  Moths.
Interviewer:  Moths?
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Sure, are the young candle flies, are they?
556:  I don't know I I've had several suits ruined by moths. Of course, they lay their eggs. If a if a if a piece of cloth is absolutely clean, it's it don't affect it, you see? Grease spots that they
Interviewer:  Oh.
556:  That they eat. They'll lay the eggs in and that moth hatches out, and he'll eat that cloth with a grease spot. If you if a suit of clothes if perfectly clean, though, they won't bother it, although it is made out of wool.
Interviewer:  And the bugs that fly around with the light off and on?
556:  Fireflies. Lightning bugs, we called 'em.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  We still have 'em.
Interviewer:  They're not the same as June bugs?
556:  Oh no, June bugs oh boy June bugs we used to tie strings to 'em play with June bugs around fig trees we You can find plenty of 'em around fig trees. They eat ripe figs. We'd catch 'em, tie a little string on her leg, you know. Go around with a June bug.
Interviewer:  These bugs that hover over water.
556:  #1 Mm. We called 'em snake doctors. #
Interviewer:  #2 {C: clearing throat} With two sets of wings and #
556:  #1 Dragonflies, what they are. #
Interviewer:  #2 Ah uh-huh. #
556:  Snake doctors.
Interviewer:  And different owls?
556:  Oh yeah, we had screech owls and By the way, you see that tree right there? Three nights ago, two of 'em got in that tree, and they put me on a concert.
Interviewer:  #1 Were any of them still around? #
556:  #2 Oh man. Are they? #
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  They get up in that tree right there. I love to listen to 'em. They like to get up and hoop there. And practically every night you can hear 'em. They come they don't seem to be afraid of town. I've seen 'em downtown. I saw one light in the street right under a bridge at light one night I been out. Sitting up on the bank there and he flew down into the street, I reckon, he's catching a bug or something. But they're very calm.
Interviewer:  #1 Big ones, uh? #
556:  #2 Screech owls. I used to have a caged one. # Sir?
Interviewer:  The big ones?
556:  {D: Yeah, they all out there.} I had one in a cage up a couple of months about that high. {X} Had a country flew in his chicken house one night and told me to come out and get him. {D: At our was that at our haunts?} It's about that high.
Interviewer:  That's about three feet high.
556:  Yeah, he's an enormous thing. I kept him in a cage several months about to break me free. We turned him loose one day. Buy meat down at the store.
Interviewer:  Make a difference between the hoot owl and the screech owl?
556:  Screech owl was a tiny owl. Very little.
Interviewer:  And uh did you ever hear anybody say a squinch squinch owl?
556:  Squinch owl. Niggers called 'em squinch owls.
Interviewer:  Squinch owls.
556:  I don't that's fairly recent they never said screech just squinch owls.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And uh things that would go after chickens uh
556:  Well, there's chicken hawks.
Interviewer:  And how about animals uh small animals?
556:  Well, they they kept rats.
Interviewer:  Alright.
556:  Uh um in fact, hawks are beneficial birds. They catch a few chickens, of course, {NS} but they live mostly on rats. Cotton rats. Field rats. And they're really beneficial, and they shouldn't be killed like people every time they see a hawk that want killing, they shouldn't do it because hawks and owls, as a rule, are very beneficial birds. I found a a owl nest and it would be full of rats, mice, lizards, and snakes for the young.
Interviewer:  The uh different kinds of squirrels. You say you've gone squirrel
556:  Well, uh yeah I've uh they are fox squirrels, red squirrels. I've killed many red squirrels in fact and gray squirrels and every now and then you see an albino squirrel or a black squirrel. They very rare, though.
Interviewer:  If uh things look like squirrels and run on the ground real quiet, they
556:  We don't have those, no. #1 Uh, chipmunks and they don't they're not uh. Yep, we don't have those at all. #
Interviewer:  #2 Chipmunks. Much as they're called gophers. # And uh the kind of small animal who's after chickens, I guess. Uh, smells bad if you scare
556:  {NW} Pole cats.
Interviewer:  Pole cats? You ever have a a a word that uh you use for pole cats and possums and weasels and rats, and call 'em, put together, a single word? What I'm thinking of is varmint.
556:  Varmints? Oh, sure.
Interviewer:  Now how did you miss did you ever buy that people would joke and say that or not?
556:  I'm afraid so. Low-down varmint. Yeah, I've heard that you
Interviewer:  Is that a uh a kind of joke or is it serious or uh
556:  Well, maybe both ways I've heard it referred to both ways.
Interviewer:  Ah.
556:  Some low-down fellow. He's a low-down varmint. I've heard that expression many times.
Interviewer:  We uh mentioned a pretty word how did you we talked about this yesterday and uh people who call pecker uh peckerwoods. Somebody's called a peckerwood, what's the response there?
556:  It means a very small kind of a man.
Interviewer:  Uh.
556:  Peckerwood. They have pecker wood saw mills the little old portable saw mills they call peckerwood saw mills. And they they small maybe like two or three people. Yeah. #1 They are. #
Interviewer:  #2 What's interesting is # whether peckerwood it means the same thing as redneck or cracker or uh. In Georgia, it's
556:  Cracker
Interviewer:  A man can call another man cracker if they're good friends. Or uh it's a kind of term of endearment. Now is uh I think redneck is a little bit more serious, isn't it?
556:  #1 Yeah, it is. It's uh. Had a different connotation, per perhaps. #
Interviewer:  #2 Like the word? Uh-huh. # How about peckerwood?
556:  It's same thing.
Interviewer:  {NW}
556:  They about the same as a redneck.
Interviewer:  So uh it can be a serious word. You you wouldn't uh
556:  You can use either way, you know. You can use it in a friendly way, a joking way. You can Course if you use it in a serious way, you don't tell it to the man himself. #1 {C: laughing} #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # Uh another word that I'll ask you, you have you think of any other words that negroes would call whites that they didn't respect?
556:  Very well. I've heard of a thousand they referred to 'em as poor white trash.
Interviewer:  Oh.
556:  I was up there of course I was really country up there. Now all the people are gone, the farm houses are burned down, and I picked up one of my old niggers at the old nigger friend of mine, and his name was Percy. They called him Percy. I said, "Percy, any people still living around here now that we used to know?" And he said, "Nah, it's nothing but a bunch of poor white trash in here now." Poor white trash. I you will admit, so
Interviewer:  Did uh they ever use the word uh hoosier?
556:  No, no, that's we didn't use that word at all.
Interviewer:  What uh what would a poor white call a negro that he didn't like?
556:  Well, I don't I don't #1 No, you see #
Interviewer:  #2 Anything in particular? #
556:  Uh now nobody ever referred to poor whites out except the colored people. Now a white person never referred to anybody else as poor white trash, but that was strictly a colored person's word.
Interviewer:  Suppose a a white person wouldn't have any respect for another white person. What would he call him? Is that where the peckerwood comes in?
556:  That's where the peckerwood and the redneck come in. But I never heard a white person refer to another white person as poor white trash, but that was very common among the niggers. They had up where I lived where people were prominent. They had money and and they had the utmost if they'd see a white man working the field, chopping cotton, he was poor white trash. He wasn't supposed to be out there chopping cotton. And a white woman working in the field. I remember one of 'em told me one day, "As you know, I saw that man's wife out in the field chopping cotton. His wife?" I said, "You did?" Said, "You ever hear such a thing?" I said, "No, I never did." But they must be poor white trash. That man's wife out there chopping cotton. He was horrified at the fact that Course as I say our family, we weren't wealthy, but we, you know, got along alright, and but the idea of a white woman out in the field chopping cotton. That nigger just couldn't he just couldn't take that at all. He just thought it was horrible.
Interviewer:  When you were a boy, what uh what would you call or what would uh would a negro how would the negro address you or your father?
556:  Well, he always used the term mister of course uh as you got older now when I was a boy see when I was on the plantation, I didn't have anything to play with but nigger boys. We were just building {D: tongue} with one another until We hunted and fished and camped, and there were no other white kids on the place. And my devoted friends were all niggers, really. We no, and we used to camp together and hunt and fish
Interviewer:  {D: The term mars has died out before}
556:  That died out. It's I hear 'em on television saying master. That that that that wasn't a word at all. It was muster.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  They used the word mu- it wasn't master or marser. It was muster.
Interviewer:  Muster?
556:  That was the old slave expression. Muster.
Interviewer:  I bet it was gone by the time.
556:  It was dying out. I've heard it used many times, though. It was is was it was a word that was dying out at the time, but I heard many of the old niggers use that word many, many times.
Interviewer:  Were they uh do you remember any terms applying to the woman? To the
556:  Old miss.
Interviewer:  Old miss.
556:  Old miss was the No matter whether she was young or old, she was old miss. No matter uh that was the wife of the owner was old miss. Always old miss.
Interviewer:  What term of uh respect would white people use to toward say older negroes? Uh
556:  Always aunt and uncle.
Interviewer:  Uh.
556:  Oh yeah. Always aunt and uncle. Always called the old ones Uncle Ben, Uncle Sam, Uncle John and aunt this uh my old My old aunt know I remember telling you about Aunt Jane. I never called her anything in my life but Aunt Jane. Never. And all the rest of the family called her Aunt Jane.
Interviewer:  We gonna get back to where we were before with bugs and things. Uh, what kinds of frogs do you remember?
556:  Well bullfrogs were very common. I used to kill 'em and eat the legs. Very and I used to love these bullfrogs. We had lots of big bullfrogs. They were enormous things. We used to catch 'em and Jig gig 'em and um dip 'em up in nets. You know, we'd even shoot 'em with a twenty-two rifle here. I was going out at night and put your flashlight right down the barrel of your rifle and shoot him right between the eyes. The eyes would shine like diamonds in the water. And yeah they were quite something. I used to love then um Got up and got traveling around. Went to cafe down here in Jackson. Once I saw frog legs on the menu four and a half I like to fall out of my chair. {NS} Million dollar one time and didn't know it.
Interviewer:  {X} They're a delicacy.
556:  Oh yeah. They were quite a delicacy.
Interviewer:  And smaller frogs that uh
556:  Well, we had uh toad frogs and tree frogs. We used to have a lot of {X} vines growing up around the house and little tree frogs. We used to catch 'em cute little things.
Interviewer:  And uh hard-shelled
556:  Turtles.
Interviewer:  Things uh turtles near the water or
556:  Well, uh uh the terrapin's a dry land uh type. Uh but the turtle's are soft-shelled turtles and they had uh flat-shelled turtle they lived in water and by the way, I caught one just last week out here on the bank of the river about that big. He'd gotten out of the water, but they had various types of turtles. But the terrapin, as I say, is a dry-land. He closes himself completely up. Uh, there's an old nigger out here who used to have a fish trap across the river and I've seen him bring in turtles weighing sixty pounds.
Interviewer:  Okay.
556:  Sixty pounds. Yeah. Forty, fifty, sixty. Biggest number I saw is sixty pounds.
Interviewer:  What do you remember about these things that uh you'd stick uh put a stick down in the hole or a rat hole and stick
556:  Doodle bugs.
Interviewer:  Those doodle bugs.
556:  #1 Doodle bugs. Caught a million of 'em. #
Interviewer:  #2 Oh uh. # But what are the ones that you find in fresh water? There are pinchers also. Crawfish, you mean? Yes.
556:  #1 Crawfish? Yeah, crawfish. Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 That what they call 'em? Crawfish? # And uh, they're good to eat, right?
556:  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when we was kids, we used to catch 'em, fry 'em. And first got 'em to a shrimp.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Now they have there's different types of crawfish. Down in Louisiana, they have the red crawfish, which is quite a delicacy. They make crawfish crawfish bisque. In fact, I have some canned crawfish bisque here right now my daughter brought me from New Orleans.
Interviewer:  Oh, I wonder if you would give me a sketch of the house where you grew up uh
556:  Uh, let's see. Maybe I can.
Interviewer:  If I can remember, {X}
556:  Now, see my say my two grandfathers played for {C: distant} {X} I grew up{C:distant} See now, that's what{C: distant} {X} {X}
Interviewer:  We're doing a good job of forgetting the tape recorder, which is what we want. But I almost forgot to bring it over.
556:  Uh that's out of out of proportion. Wait a minute. This home this is my grandfather Kriegler's home. Here was a house back here like this, see? It had a hall through the house back there. Room in a room here.
Interviewer:  #1 And your hall was closed or open? #
556:  #2 Room here. # Well, there's an open door here and right on through the door's these rooms. And right here you talk about a plunder room. Well, right here was a Kind of a store room you could use. And out here Like this was a kitchen.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  And there was a wing in the building. About like that which had three rooms and that was other side of the house. That's the way it looked.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Um. There was a kitchen back there kind of it wasn't detached, but it was
Interviewer:  Yes, let's uh. Let's indicate what those rooms were. This is the plunder room.
556:  That was the plunder room. This was a bedroom, of course. That was a bedroom. And this was, {D: wait a minute.} That was the dining room, I believe it was. I know it was. And wait a minute. It has been a long time ago.
Interviewer:  Sure, uh.
556:  Uh, now these were bedrooms. This was up here was a kind of a sitting room and it had this horse hair furniture, you know.
Interviewer:  Oh yeah.
556:  I used to sit on it, you know. And that's uh and by it was beautiful furniture, you know that. That furniture disappeared, and they told me they found out an old house it was rotted. It was beautiful stuff. But nobody ever sat on it because it {X} new.
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
556:  #2 Well, that was my grandfather. Right here now was his uh # Uh office his this this was his uh it had drawers all around it in here, you know, and that was his consulting room back there. Had a place where they could lie down their patients, and that then that'll be Paling fence around all of it, you see?
Interviewer:  I understand uh where where would the parlor this would be a
556:  Up here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  See, it was uh this was colored, see? You walked in, and that was the parlor and whatnot in the corner. Now that was this that was grandfather {X} home, and this other was a big old home built way back before the Civil War. It was a big house like that, and the kitchen was right here like that. I remember the kitchen, it had a hall that went right through it. A big hall. A big double-doors, you know? And it was on the a bedroom there. That and that was a dining room.
Interviewer:  This would be a kitchen, and this would be the kitchen?
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Alright, and did you have a little room of the kitchen where you'd store things uh?
556:  Well, no.
Interviewer:  Plunder?
556:  Well oh but back here they had this there's a building they used for storing stuff in and also it doubled as a salt house I was back then and behind way back here was an enormous barn.
Interviewer:  The thing that you call a pantry.
556:  Well, they had a pantry here in the dining room. There was a had big double-doors on it with shelves right in here. That was a pantry right there. And these were all
Interviewer:  In other words, it was built in or anything more than a room? Was it something built into to the room?
556:  And it stuck out into the room.
Interviewer:  Uh.
556:  And right over the dining room table was a poker. You know.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  And and the right out the window here.
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
556:  #2 {X} # Their momma then was you know, supposed to fly, keep it cool. Keep the flies off up the screens. And they thought it would slow down my grandfather. Help her! You know, {C: laughing} the nigger boy would forget about it. {C: laughing} He'd turn around and holler out the window. See the thing out there a pulley, you know? And uh, it'd help him down.
speaker#3:  Did you put down this window?
556:  #1 I'm watching #
Interviewer:  #2 How are you? #
556:  Did you did you meet Patricia?
speaker#3:  #1 No, I didn't. How are you? Good to see you. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
556:  I was watching this in here.
speaker#3:  Put it down. Get so down. Waited an hour for him when I
Interviewer:  Took a shower coming down.
speaker#3:  Yes.
Interviewer:  The uh weather's awesome to predict. The uh newspaper this morning said nice, sunny today, tomorrow, but
speaker#3:  It's all the editorial says is what's so rare as a day in June.
Interviewer:  #1 That's right. An hour before #
speaker#3:  #2 You can tell what it'll be #
556:  I see this park it was like that. It had streams of paper. Papers oh down here. And that thing worked on a pulley up here in the ceiling, and the string went up the pulley and out the window. The nigger boy would stood out there on the ground, and pulled it between every meal. And that's the way the thing had uh P-U-N-K-A-H, I believe. And How you how you spell punkah Louise?
speaker#4:  What?
556:  Punkah.
speaker#4:  Like a cook up here?
556:  The punkah the punkah over the dining room table we used to have.
speaker#4:  Oh punkah.
556:  Yeah.
speaker#4:  P-U-N-K-A.
556:  {C: laughing} I knew it was punkah. Like with the punkah. And then then there was a big porch. You know, I forgot about the porch.
Interviewer:  Is there a porch on this house? Uh.
556:  Yeah, I forgot about the porch. Yeah, here's the porch. Stuck a way out like this, and this porch still out like this with columns, you know. And the steps here when one steps up here to right up steps.
Interviewer:  And this uh talking about a porch, uh suppose you'd have a little uh roof over a door uh you would have a name
556:  Entry. That was the entry.
Interviewer:  Entry, uh?
556:  Entry.
Interviewer:  They didn't they didn't use stoop?
556:  No, they didn't use stoop. First time I heard stoop was when I went uh up to Pecusa to school.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  And I remember coming back from church coming back from school one day one of the girls sat out and old Aunt Lily come out. Who's that girl sitting out there on my stoop? {NW} And I'd never heard the word stoop before until she said stoop. I tell you you mean the steps? Stoop. Uh cause this was none of this was this was the back porch. Oh, I forgot about the back porch. The back porch. And then the steps came.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And that house is still standing, and it's in terrible shape. It's gotten up to falling out there last time it's terrible. Nobody lives in it, nobody since.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Now that's the way it looked.
Interviewer:  How uh and what would be the parlor?
556:  #1 In this house we had no parlor. We had no parlor. #
Interviewer:  #2 This. Uh this uh. # Where did you spend most of your time as a family uh? Uh.
556:  You mean where? Of course we had big chairs on the porch in the summertime. We set out on the porches and on the back porch. And and and uh on this is one my grandmother and grandfather's bedroom. We spent a lot of time in there. And this was my room back here. That room back here. I had it I had lived back there.
Interviewer:  Did you have anything called the big room?
556:  Not in this particular house. This this was a bedroom and that was a bedroom.
Interviewer:  Told her in the Kriegler house. Did you have a big room?
556:  Well, mostly we used one of these rooms up here. We this was a sitting room right here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And.
Interviewer:  Uh, would you tell me a you mentioned the whatnot. What other things would you have in the other items
556:  Sits right in the corner. Well, just little uh I remember she had little seashells on it that somebody brought up from the coast and Uh {X}
Interviewer:  You told me that you remember some kind of warning that she'd give you
556:  Oh well she'd say you mustn't touch anything on it the whatnot. I couldn't touch anything a little little glass figurines and various little uh things she'd collected, you know, little glass uh figures and vases and seashells and And uh little various little things like that, you know she'd collected over the years and
Interviewer:  What other things would you have in the parlor uh what items, furniture?
556:  Well, on the part in the middle there was uh always a uh marble top table. Generally the Bible and a copy of Pilgrim's Progress was on it, and one of these things I still got it uh one of these viewing outfits, you know. I have it up there now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  I I just played with it when I was a child. I still got it. That was on the table, and course there was paintings around the wall that my old aunt did when she went to college as a girl. She studied painting. {D: I'll show you one of them now whether I get around to it}
Interviewer:  And the items that they uh sit on uh what what what was made out of horse hair?
556:  It was uh the chairs. There was a straight chair and a cup maybe a couple of straight chairs and a rocking chair and a couch. All house horse hair. And you sit on the things, and the horse hair would stick you, you know. You had short pants on. Sit down on that horse hair, and there's a consequence those that furniture {X} nobody would sit on it. It was beautiful stuff. It was walnut carved walnut, and I've often wondered what came of that one, and I asked him for advice. I said that stuff still out in an old lighthouse somewhere and rained on it and rotted it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Well they uh they would use word couch rather than sofa or would there be some
556:  The word was couch. I never heard the word sofa. I never heard of a sofa or a sofa.
Interviewer:  You have anything called a loveseat?
556:  Uh, no they didn't have. I knew what a loveseat was, but we didn't have one. That was a outfit like that we didn't have a loveseat.
Interviewer:  And in the bedroom uh what different items would you have?
556:  Well, of course there was a big bed. I used to sleep well by the way, I forgot to tell you this is a two-story house.
Interviewer:  Oh!
556:  This in here was Yeah.
Interviewer:  How would you where how would you get up?
556:  The stairs, the stairs.
Interviewer:  And where were they then on
556:  The stairs were right here and they started right here.
Interviewer:  Right through the front door.
556:  Yeah, right the back. Now, wait a minute.
Interviewer:  {X}
556:  This is the front of the house. The stairs were right here. Going up to the two rooms upstairs. And then the bed I slept in was up there. Only four posters with a {X} and I fell a bed. I ain't got out of that bed's the kind of I'd sleep up there sometime, but this was my room. I slept down there mostly. But when company came, you know, they'd {NS} Sometimes have to go upstairs. There was two rooms upstairs in this house. That's what a two story house is. I'd rather get to calling it a story and a half because it wasn't strictly two story, but it did have two rooms upstairs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What other {C: clearing throat} items would you have in the bedroom? Uh Places.
556:  Well, of course there's a bed and a big dresser.
Interviewer:  Did the dresser have a mirror?
556:  A big mirror over it over it yeah a big mirror and the dresser and around by the way I have a round paved one in there right now. I'll show it to you.
Interviewer:  Oh.
556:  But they kept their books and papers and stuff in it.
Interviewer:  What would you keep your clothes in?
556:  {X} Uh. I know there was a there was a in here There was a pantry yeah they kept stuff in. And as I remember, they kept the clothes hung on racks behind the bed. The whole bed.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  There were hooks on the wall behind the bed. They kept their clothes
speaker#3:  I got these things down the hall {X}
556:  {X}
speaker#3:  I'm going to {X}. Where you think I'm going?
556:  Oh yeah, that's right.
speaker#3:  I just excuse me {X} I don't want any money. I don't want any
556:  #1 {X} #
speaker#3:  #2 {X} #
556:  She's going out to the country club to the ladies' night.
Interviewer:  See well, that's fine. I I enjoy switching for one. Did you have anything called a wardrobe?
556:  Yeah, we did. That's right we did have a wardrobe. Big wardrobes, that's right. I forgot all about the wardrobes. In this room here, had a marvelous wardrobe right there. with a and by the way I had it here. And uh the beautiful thing. But it was so big we had two of 'em here, and my cousin came up from Florida here last summer And went to take and the whole thing collapsed there's not a nail or a screw in it. It just fitted together.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And so he loaded on top the station wagon and took it to Florida. Beautiful thing out of walnut. That's right, there was a big wardrobe right there.
Interviewer:  And uh.
556:  That's where she kept a lot of her clothes in that wardrobe.
Interviewer:  Did you have anything that was made just of drawers?
556:  No.
Interviewer:  Without a mirror?
556:  No. {NS}
Interviewer:  Or anything called a chifforobe?
556:  No. {NS} No, they didn't have nothing except that that uh I forgot they about the wardrobe. They did have two big wardrobes. They were enormous things.
Interviewer:  Or a chiffonier?
556:  No.
Interviewer:  Just called it a dresser?
556:  Had a, in the front hall at this grandfather, they had a A hat rack, a thing that stood up with you know, where you put stuff on. And on the wall was one of these things that you let out, you know. You hung hats on. I that was in the front hall and also an organ, an old pump-organ set in there.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Uh {C: clearing throat} in the kitchen you uh in fact when we were talking this morning you mentioned a safe uh. Would you
556:  Yeah, well that was in the dining room. It was a
Interviewer:  Oh, it was the dining?
556:  Yeah, it was a a thing with two doors metal with a little hole that popped in it's you know it's designed so that's where they kept all the cakes and the pie and stuff like that.
Interviewer:  #1 The purpose of the safe was to keep bugs away that or flies that {X} that uh #
556:  #2 Right, right. # Had little tiny holes in the middle. It was a metal um Tin, I suppose. And designed worked on it you know flowers. With little tiny holes, you know to get the air in. That's where I think we kept the cake and the pie and the preserves and the pickles and all that kind of stuff. All homemade, of course.
Interviewer:  You uh mentioned this morning also how you kept the uh The milk cold.
556:  #1 Down in the cistern. #
Interviewer:  #2 Where was that uh? # Where would be the cistern?
556:  Cistern was and at this at this grandfather's it was just out by the behind the kitchen. A deep cistern and that water was just as cold So you put the milk in they called them coolers was about that big around and maybe three feet long. And let it down in that cold water, and that milk was delicious. It was cold as can be.
Interviewer:  How did you fill the cistern up?
556:  Gutters from the house. See the house had gutters all around it, and and of course a lot of it you didn't have to fill it. The water came in but I remember sometimes my grandfather wait after a big rain and after they got washed off thoroughly, he'd turn the gutter into the cistern and let the rainwater run into the cistern.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But uh
Interviewer:  Somebody told me that uh they never collected water for their cistern during the summer because they're afraid of mosquitoes. It would be a
556:  Well, you kept you kept fish in the water to take to heat up the {X} see?
Interviewer:  {D: wash}?
556:  You drop a few fish down there, and they they would keep
Interviewer:  #1 Take care of it. Uh-huh. #
556:  #2 They take care of the mosquitoes. #
Interviewer:  And uh and a kind of situation like this. What would be this part of the roof or it'd go like this.
556:  #1 And this roof like #
Interviewer:  #2 #
556:  that and this went like that. That's the way.
Interviewer:  And uh it would form would it form a kind of a thing like this?
556:  Well, the gutters went all the way around it, you see? A wooden gutters.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And uh. Had one going to the cistern, which wasn't connected until he wanted to get some water, now. Uh. And you wouldn't you'd wait until the rain rained a good deal to wash all the dust and stuff off the roof. And then if you wanted to turn it into the well, you could turn this gutter into the well.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But this water in this well at this grandfather's house must've been subterranean water because that well never did go dry. We always had plenty good water. But this grandfather quite often had to turn some water into the well.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  And we
Interviewer:  Uh, did you did you ever call this a valley? The valley of the roof?
556:  Yeah, sure. {X}
Interviewer:  Uh, {C: clearing throat} the reason I ask that question is that uh where it was where that was called a valley, then the place to the things to catch water would be called gutters.
556:  Well, we called we usually well the gutters were what these were gutters, and the valleys was Down in in between where the roofs came together.
Interviewer:  Other people would call the val- what you would describe as the valley, they call that a gutter, and they use these as eavesdrops.
556:  Well, our gutters were made out of wood shaped like that, see?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And right around there.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And they they'd carry the water off the roof.
Interviewer:  How did you heat uh would you tell me about your heating arrangements?
556:  Just enormous fireplaces was all.
Interviewer:  Alright. And in each room?
556:  Each room had a big fireplace.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And how would you start uh start the fire?
556:  In the morning?
Interviewer:  Yes, you have a recollection of how
556:  Yeah, well one of the niggers would come in and start it.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  They always kept a big backlog there had a backlog that they'd put on at night. The last thing he'd put is a big log behind and and it would put ashes up over the fire. And the next morning was very simple. They'd just bring in some kindling and in just a few minutes, they'd have the fire going, raked the ashes back and that would be the coals.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  We smoldered all night this backlog big enormous log, and just throw on some fresh fuel and off she went.
Interviewer:  Uh. You had you had pine when you were Oh yeah.
556:  #1 Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 Did you ever call that # Uh, fat pine or
556:  Oh yeah. Fat pine. We'd use that to start the fire with.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  By the way this house, these floors that we're standing on are fat pine. This house is nearly a hundred years old. And that porch out there had it buffed off here a couple of months ago. And the fellow said this floor is made out of fat pine. Do you know it? I said, " Sure, I know it." And this whole house is made our of hard pine and cyprus.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  It wouldn't have been it wouldn't have been nearly a hundred years if it hadn't been made out of good stuff.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But it is good lumber in this house and it's been here a long time. This house was built in eighteen eighty.
Interviewer:  Eighteen eighty. Mm. The uh {C: clearing throat} different parts of the fireplace that you uh you recall uh
556:  {C: clearing throat} Well, we had a big pair and each one of them had a big pair andirons and as the niggers called 'em dog irons. Big iron andirons and one of them at this grandfather's house was beautiful things come up and brass, big brass top stove. But all of 'em had andirons or as they called 'em dog irons.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And a place that's that was built out in the floor, what was that?
556:  #1 Hearth. #
Interviewer:  #2 #
556:  That was the hearth. Brick.
Interviewer:  Brick? Uh.
556:  Yeah, big big brick hearth. And you That's why you never you never burned green wood in your because it popped. Pop at you and burn your coffee. So you always tried to use cured wood. It wouldn't pop at That green wood would pop and splatter and burn good.
Interviewer:  And above the fireplace, what
556:  A mantle.
Interviewer:  And where did you have one that?
556:  Oh boy. Well, my grandmother used to make her own lighters. She'd get pretty paper and roll out a big vase for always Vase full of lamp lighters up there on in a big vase. She liked to get pretty paper and roll 'em about about that long, you know. Bend 'em at the end and keep unrolling, and she always kept us. And on each end was a couple I still got the brass candlesticks. I'd show 'em to you. They'd sat on each end of the mantle was these big brass candlesticks. And she kept this lighters and various things. And grandfather kept a box of tobacco up there for his pipe.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What did you use for {C: coughing} in the lamps? Uh.
556:  Kerosene. Coal oil.
Interviewer:  Did you? Uh, do you since you had fat pine, do you recall any use of pine knots or oil?
556:  No, well I've got some pine nuts down on the museum. We didn't use pine nuts out there. We used strictly kerosene lamps.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  I got one in there electrified. I'd show it to you.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  That's a very beautiful lamps I wish I had 'em now.
Interviewer:  And when uh you first uh got electricity, what uh
556:  We didn't have electricity in the country. We never did get it.
Interviewer:  Ever mean to?
556:  No.
Interviewer:  When it first came to town, what did you call the things that uh give off the light when they first came in?
556:  Light bulbs.
Interviewer:  Did you always call 'em bulbs?
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  {X}
556:  I remember very well when the first electric was built here in Macon. Only had night had night current never turned on at daytime. At dark every just about dark everyday they blew a wildcat whistle down there. That meant the lights were on. Turn on your lights. Them old bulbs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Um, well, this is fine except I told I've forgotten the great many things there. Uh how are you doing for for time uh {X} I have uh a great many other things I'd like to ask you. You have a marvelous memory, and I would like to Spend some more time with you.
556:  #1 Go right ahead. I've got all day. My wife has gone to the country club, so we're not bothered with her anymore. #
Interviewer:  #2 My question is uh what are you doing alright? Oh. # Well, let's uh you're comfortable there, then I'll just keep the recording here, and I'd like to uh ask you some other questions about the house. How did you keep uh the light out the windows uh {C: clearing throat}. In fact, uh did you have anything to keep the. Did you have shutters or?
556:  Not a thing. Nothing. Not one thing. There were no blinds on that house. Uh, the old blinds. This house used to have 'em. We took 'em down. But the old blind you know shut right through there we didn't have 'em.
Interviewer:  #1 Now uh the blinds would be on the outside or the inside? #
556:  #2 On the outside. # And this house it was equipped with both. I have one in the house now. The inside blinds. And the outside blinds. This house had both kinds. I still hadn't built in the house now.
Interviewer:  And uh the uh did you have anything like shades?
556:  Had window shades. But In this particular house yeah, there was absolutely nothing on those windows. We didn't have any anything.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Nothing.
Interviewer:  And in the {C: clearing throat} house with the second story did you have something uh above that? That you can in fact, in either house, did you use any of the area under the roof but above the the ceilings? Uh, in other words, would it be a did you use uh the attic or the loft? Uh {X}
556:  #1 Well, I am #
Interviewer:  #2 The loft and the barn. # But in the house would it be an attic or a loft?
556:  It was it was an attic. We called an attic. And the and these two rooms up here upstairs each one was open right there and the story was tough up there, outside those rooms the eave under the uh roof. It was unfinished. And we stored all kinds of stuff up there. And uh these two rooms upstairs each one of 'em had a big closet. A big closet in each one of those rooms.
Interviewer:  {C: clearing throat} And they had a a built-in closet?
556:  Yeah, a big closet a walk-in closet right big things. Kept all kind of stuff in there.
Interviewer:  You mentioned a feather bed uh what else do you remember on it uh what did you have on the bed and what did you use to keep warm and what would you use to
556:  #1 Homemade quilts quilts. #
Interviewer:  #2 Display. Uh. #
556:  Quilts and then they used to have quilting parties there. I showed you my grandfather's office his room back here.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
556:  About once a month, they'd have a quilting in there. All the women would come around and they had a frame they'd let down from the ceiling. And they'd sit around that thing and do the quilting. Mostly a gossip party what it was, but they sewed right along. I don't know what more maybe a dozen women sit around that thing working on these quilts. Beautiful quilts now.
Interviewer:  Did you have um anything that you'd keep on the bed for display uh sort of like that? #1 Uh, that that was just for display. #
556:  #2 Oh yeah they had a counterpin. They called it a counterpin. Yeah. # Counterpin yeah that was just to cover that's to cover the quilts.
Interviewer:  And um
556:  You took the counterpin off when you went to bed.
Interviewer:  I see and did you have a pillow that went all the way across? Uh.
556:  Well there was such thing, but we just had no we And by the way, they often used shuck mattresses. Now, if you ever slept on a shuck mattress {C: laughing} Lord, I remember {D: I used to have to sleep behind it's fine a shuck mattress for tents shuck mattress made out of shucks.}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Corn shucks.
Interviewer:  What were the uh {C: clearing throat} how were the pillows made and
556:  Pillows were mostly goose feathers. Um they had geese you know they'd pick the geese and stuff the feathers stuff those. They made fine pillows, too.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh you said you had seen those pillows that went all the way around? What's what did they were they for display or? #
556:  #2 Yeah. # Bolsters, they called 'em. Wasn't it wasn't that the proper name?
Interviewer:  That's where what some people call 'em, but I'm not sure whether they actually were used or whether they
556:  Nah, they didn't use
Interviewer:  Uh.
556:  As I remember, they didn't use that bolster. They put it up there just to make the bed up and at night you had your own separate pillow.
Interviewer:  How about the word pillow sham?
556:  Oh yeah. Pillow shams and
Interviewer:  That's not the same as a bolster.
556:  No, a pillow sham is what we call a pillowcase today.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  See, the pillowcase. The shams went over the pillow. Pillow was made out of uh. What they call bed {X} And stuffed with goose feathers. And very fine feathers. They were good. I'd like to have one now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  #1 These things #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # The sham then was not the was in for to make it look nice rather than
556:  The sham pillow sham is the same as a pillowcase.
Interviewer:  Okay, I see. So you actually use it uh
556:  Interchangeably as pillowcase and pillow sham. I'd have 'em call a pillow sham, some call 'em pillow case.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And uh if did you ever as a boy uh sleep on the floor on anything?
556:  Oh lord, man. A pallets oh boy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  I'd uh A lot of times we'd have a lot lots of company, nowhere else to sleep. On a pallet. I'll make him a pallet. Slept a many a night on the floor.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Nothing but a quilt and a pillow.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh do you have any recollections of the how the women uh how the uh the help would keep the floors clean and where they'd keep things, how they'd do dishes, how they'd do laundry? #
556:  #2 Well, yeah once # Once a week I believe it was a cook would what you call scour the kitchen floor. Scour it with lye. She'd use lye and a brush broom and man and scrub that floor with that lye, you know. Call it scouring the floor. She'd scour the kitchen floor about once a week. No, she'd say I got to scour today. I got to scour now everybody get out. I got to scour. Well, she'd rub that floor. {C: laughing}
Interviewer:  How about doing uh washing and ironing?
556:  Well, they had a big wash pot out in the yard. In a tub and a rub boat they'd call 'em. And this big wash pot they'd build a fire on it and get the water hot and And put it in the tub with the iron with the scrubbing boat and wash the clothes and the tub of water and hang it up on the line to dry.
Interviewer:  How'd they get the uh soap out? Would they boil it and scrub it?
556:  Well, they used different water. You see, you'd wash it with soap first. You'd pull water out then put fresh water in the tub. And that'd get the soap out of the clothes. And you wrung 'em out, you know, in your hand, and hung 'em on the line. It's where you got the soap out in the water.
Interviewer:  Do you have any recollection of ironing?
556:  Oh yeah. Yes uh yeah one of 'em right there.
Interviewer:  Oh yes?
556:  Yes sir there. The wash woman. Yeah, the wash woman. And by the way, some of the old nigger women were {X} I wish I had 'em now to do my shirts. Do beautiful washing and ironing. Starch 'em beautifully. And then we had one woman who could do a shirt just perfect. Better than anyone launder in the United States could do 'em today. Could iron 'em perfectly. That's that's one of mine right there. And we heat it in front of the fire.
Interviewer:  In front of the fire?
556:  Yeah, set 'em around the fire. Now three or four or five of 'em lined up. {NS} Unknown.
Interviewer:  Oh yes.
556:  #1 They'd have #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
556:  They'd have four or five of 'em lined up in front of the fire and for one, put it back and pick up a hot one.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh The doing dishes things like that uh
556:  Had what they called the dish pan. Washed 'em in the dish pan.
Interviewer:  Where'd you get your hot water uh?
556:  {D: Off the each little old souls had a reservoir.} They kept the warm water on the one of 'em. On the side of the store, the niggers called 'em reser boil reser boiler. The reservoir, of course. We call it a reser boilers. {C: laughing} Reservoir. And it held about uh maybe three or four gallons of water. It was hooked on the side, and the water didn't get especially hot. It just got warm. And they use the water out of the reservoir to wash the dishes in and in the dish pan, a big pan.
Interviewer:  Uh, if you if you had a smaller iron uh container on the stove, uh I think sometimes they fit it down in an eye.
556:  Well, quite often they would heat the iron on the stove. But when there wasn't no fireplace, they just set the irons on the stove and built a good fire on the stove, you see. Let down the heat from the fire of the stove.
Interviewer:  Uh I wonder was this a uh this was a kettle or something you'd heat water in or the reservoir be just be for the dishes?
556:  Warm water. Then you had a kettle for boiling water.
Interviewer:  {X}