Interviewer: We were talking about uh {NS} before {NS} you're you have a piece of furniture and you uh it doesn't fit in the house and so somebody says, "Well, don't throw it away. I'll be glad to take it." And you say, "Well, I'm glad to 556: Glad to get rid of it. I have a letter from one of my relatives from the University of Mississippi. He's a senior at the University of Mississippi. That letter was dated in 1893, I believe. He was writing to his father down at Byram, Mississippi. Says, "I wish you'd send me six gallons of good molasses." Says, "I can get shut of it very easily." Shut. S-H-U-T. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: He meant shed of it, I guess, but there he was, an educated man saying, "I can get shut of it." Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And it's very plain. S-H-U-T. Interviewer: Are there words uh now it means more than just to be rid of it. He would say, "I could sell it." 556: #1 He was gonna sell this molasses. # Interviewer: #2 {D: For sale} # Uh-huh. 556: He says, "The boys up here want molasses, and I can get shut of it very easily." And with and he was an educated boy. See, University of Mississippi. Interviewer: Uh, do you still hear that uh very much? 556: Very seldom now. It it was it used to be uh uh uh used a great deal more than it is now, but occasionally you'll hear it. Get shut of it. {NS} Interviewer: And uh. {NS} Uh uh if someone {NS} said wants to say the opposite or even he might say, "Well, we're we're glad to see you. And uh won't you stay?" but actually wants wants you to get shut of you uh, so you'd say, "Well, he acted uh he acted as if I I knew he wanted me to go, but he acted as if," what? Uh. 556: Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Would he say uh he didn't want him to stay, but he Uh, he made out like a 556: Well, that's that's quite an expression. Made out or make like. Make like I know I, I heard a fellow says not long ago let's make like we gonna do so-and-so. He made like he wanted him to stay when he didn't. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And uh different ways of expressing distance uh say how far is it well say to Columbus uh how Uh, would you say And you remember any other way of saying that uh 556: Well, they'd say, "How far?" Interviewer: To to uh to Columbus? 556: Yeah, how far to Columbus? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And {NW} somebody might say, "Well, about thirty" 556: Thirty mile Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Lot of 'em use don't use the plural, they would say mile. And I'll notice uh so many people would say anything is three foot long, four foot. Instead of four feet, they would say four foot mile or thirty mile to Columbus. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Uh. {D: High} Well that that expression is being discarded more now than it used to be because everything was either three foot deep or four foot deep. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: But you don't have much of it now with the younger people. It's always three feet or four feet. Interviewer: And if uh you say, "Where's the church?" or "Where's the baptist church?" 556: Where's it at? Lot of 'em put that word 'at' on the end of it, which of course is wrong, but so many people will say, "Where's it at?" {D: And about} other day, the fire whistle, fire alarm sounded down here and he run out here and says, "Where's the fire at?" {NS} I started to tell him "Right behind the at." Interviewer: {NS} 556: But he wanted to know where the fire was at. Interviewer: Uh-huh. If you say uh, "Where is the baptist church?" Well, you say, "Well, it's just over 556: Oh, on the corner. Interviewer: Uh, or uh Well, by the way when when uh someone told me I asked where you lived and they say, "Well, his house is just catty-wampus to the baptist church." Now uh does this uh would you explain the difference between catty-corner 556: #1 Well, he meant he meant # Interviewer: #2 and catty-wampus? # 556: Catty-cornered. Of course, catty-cornered. Catty-wampus. {NS} Well, that that may be used a little but not much. It's generally catty-cornered across. Interviewer: Now what is antigodlin? {NS} 556: Oh boy. Interviewer: I'll explain how I heard that. 556: How'd you hear it? Interviewer: I checked to see whether this uh #1 sounds familiar. # 556: #2 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: Somebody says that uh that they used to use a roads a mule-driven road-scraper. 556: Mm. Interviewer: And the blade was was antigodlin. to the road, 556: #1 Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: #2 so not only uh you know like this, up and down, but on an angle like this. # 556: #1 Mm. # Interviewer: #2 In other words, you could, # you could set it this way 556: Mm. Interviewer: and when it 556: Well, if you had antigodlin, you turned it slightly up. See, they used the old road-scrapers and mules usually a scraper would have handles. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: If it's antigodlin, it would turn slightly up instead of being parallel with the road. In other words, it meant diametrically opposed. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Uh just opposite. And anything antigodlin is it's uh opposed to the proper way. For instance, that scraper should be parallel with the earth, but if you wanna when you wanna aerate it you bear down on the handle and it goes up, you see? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: That would be antigodlin. Interviewer: You you we talked yesterday about the jackleg uh carpenters. Suppose that he made a windowsill, and you looked at it and you say, "Well, look at that sill uh it looks and and it's on an angle. If it isn't square. What's the word there? 556: That'd be a good way to express it right there. Antigodlin. Interviewer: That that's antigodlin? 556: Anything that's out of proportion or out of the natural sequence, that'd be antigodlin, and it's uh opposed to the right way of doing things, in other words. Interviewer: Now, catty-wampus then doesn't uh 556: {NS} Interviewer: You wouldn't say, "Well, he's got that all 556: Well, he just coined the word there I've heard the word cad it it's uh means the same thing as catty-cornered. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Same thing. Interviewer: So that a piece of furniture would be in the corner uh would fill a corner 556: antigodlin it. {NS} If it was put that away instead of this away. It just means opposed. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Those are interesting terms. 556: Opposed to way the the opposed to the proper way of doing things. #1 It's that's what they mean by it. # Interviewer: #2 Oh. So that so that's always # 556: #1 Yeah, off. Off-center. Right. # Interviewer: #2 Sort of off-center, so {X} # Uh. How about the word the use of yonder or yander? Uh. 556: Yonder. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Way off yonder. Interviewer: Uh. And do you combine that in any special way with back and over? 556: Oh yeah. Back yonder, over yonder, over yonder. Sure, yeah. Interviewer: Yeah, what's is that is that a long way or a short way off? Uh in other words, to talk about the church 556: Not necessarily. We say the church is over yonder. Wouldn't necessarily mean a long way. Interviewer: And what else? 556: Over yonder or back yonder, back it's maybe it's behind, it's back yonder. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: So here is over yonder. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: This away is out yonder. And different expression or you'd think the Air Force hymn in the wild blue yonder. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Uh, it means As I say, if it's back yonder is behind you, say over yonder, but out yonder is in front of you. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Uh, what is uh different ways of saying a little way and a long way? Uh, I'll go with ya a little way. 556: Little ways. Interviewer: Or piece? 556: Piece? Yeah, a piece of the way. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Yeah, that's used. Piece of the way. Little ways. Interviewer: How bout a fair piece? Uh. 556: Fair piece. {NW} Interviewer: I'll go with you a 556: I was down at the Daytona Beach and we were going on to Miami. And my cousin's wife, who said, "Where y'all going?" We said, "we going to Miami." She said, "Well, it's a fair piece down there. I'll tell you that," and of course and she's an educated college graduate, but Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: That was in Daytona Beach. She said, "Well, it's a fair piece to Miami, I'll tell you that." Interviewer: Hmm. 556: And it was. It was the long way. Interviewer: #1 Somebody uh # 556: #2 That's # Interviewer: Uh, might walk down the sidewalk and find some ice {NW} not see it and uh you know lose his balance and might say, "Whoops, I" what? 556: Slipped up. Interviewer: Uh or or I what to fell? 556: Slipped up and fell. Interviewer: Uh-huh, suppose he didn't actually fall, but he he almost did. He might say, "I what to fell?" He'd say, "I like to fell there?" 556: I'd liked to have fell. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Liked to have fallen or like, yeah that's used, liked to Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: {NW} Almost, which means all the same as almost. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And if he uh slipped and fell this way say he fell 556: #1 Foremost. # Interviewer: #2 He actually got # Foremost? Alright. Or if he slipped and he went this way 556: Back, he went backwards. #1 Backwards. # Interviewer: #2 Backwards. # Backwards. Uh-huh. 556: Liked to {X} "Just do it backwards," he says. Interviewer: {NW} 556: He fell backwards. Interviewer: Uh, somebody might say well Suppose you happened to have been in Jackson, and they say, "Well, I haven't seen you all week, where have you been?" You say, "Well, I was I was what? 556: Well, it would depend on what he was doing down there. Uh, what I'm wondering is would you say, "over in Jackson" or or uh Interviewer: #1 Up in Knoxville or # 556: #2 Well # I you know uh up in the New England states they say down East. Interviewer: Yes. 556: I've often wondered why they said down East when they it it would be up East up if it would be up to me. Interviewer: Alright. 556: Of course, if we'd say going to Jackson, we'd say down to Jackson. #1 Or up to Memphis. # Interviewer: #2 Down to Jackson. # 556: To over to Birmingham. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Over to Greenville, Mississippi. But uh I I've heard 'em use that expression up there. Down east some ways. Interviewer: {NW} 556: When it was North. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Never could get that why they meant down East when they're are people in New York say they're going down East. Well, it was I was going in on a in an airport at Kennedy and the bus there were two bus drivers and they were talking. One of 'em says where are you gonna spend your vacation? Says, "I always go down East on my vacation." Says, "It's very beautiful up there in October." Interviewer: {NW} 556: #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Not an up. # 556: Anyways, he was going he was going up in New Hampshire. Interviewer: {NW} 556: #1 Now how do you figure he went down East when it was when he was. Right. # Interviewer: #2 Now that's a that's a wonderful example of uh of what's called idiomism. # I went down East because it's beautiful up there. 556: He said he always went down East because he seen it was so beautiful up in New Hampshire during the fall. It was in October. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: And it was so beautiful up there in October. He always went down East #1 for his vacation. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 556: Well, if if down would've meant coming South to me, but Interviewer: God, and to him apparently he was not aware of the fact that he was talking about how beautiful it was up there. 556: Yeah. Interviewer: Going down. 556: #1 But he was going down East to see it. # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # Mm-hmm. 556: Always went down East, he said, in October to see the beautiful scenery and the colors, these two bus drivers. Interviewer: If you uh see someone uh coming no let's something like that. Suppose you were up in Memphis and uh say well, I haven't seen him for a long time uh I um you might say to somebody I guess who I saw in uh in Memphis Andrew Smith and say yes I what in Memphis. I ran into him. 556: I ran into him. I Interviewer: We're at a crossing. 556: We're at a crossing. That that would be okay. I ran into him. I ran across him. I met him. Interviewer: Did you ever hear anybody say I ran afoul of him? 556: Oh yeah. Yeah, that's ran afoul of him. Sure. Interviewer: But what does that mean? Uh. Does that mean that uh you didn't get along too well? 556: Well, you can just say like I had a fella not long ago I ran afoul of a highway patroller man down the highway. He missed {NW} He wasn't exactly looking for him, but he ran afoul of him and stopped him and gave him a ticket. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: #1 Well, it it I mean it wasn't it wasn't such a happy meeting, but it uh you ran afoul or something like that. # Interviewer: #2 Too happy, huh? Mm-hmm. # And then suppose you uh eh you'd wanna say yes, I saw him on the street. He was coming 556: Coming at me. Interviewer: Uh, coming at or towards. 556: Coming at me. Interviewer: #1 Oh. # 556: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: And you say well, where does he he where does he live? You say well, now he lives and I'm interested again in up, down, over. 556: Well, depend on where he lived that uh Interviewer: And supposed he lives with a family the Brown family. Say well, he lives 556: Well {NW} Interviewer: He lives up with the Browns or 556: #1 Over. Over at so-and-so's, depending on how # Interviewer: #2 Over the Browns. # 556: the direction of where they were, I guess it would be it was uh this way, he'd live up there with the Browns or over there with the Browns or as the case may be. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh suppose you say do you know him. And he says no, I've never met him, but I've I've what? 556: Heard of him. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And uh have you seen uh and you say no, I haven't or I 556: Not lately. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Haven't seen him lately. {NW} Interviewer: Child is uh is about to be punished {NW} he'll beg and he'll say no, no, don't punish me. Give me another what? 556: Another chance. Interviewer: And uh say well now you want to uh the door's open you want somebody to do something to it uh you say well now what the door? 556: You mean shut the door? Interviewer: Door. 556: Shut the door. Course you never hear much close the door. It's generally shut the door. Interviewer: I was wondering uh I was wondering and {NW} You mentioned uh your mother used to say to you when you came up to the whatnot now belt. 556: Don't touch anything on that whatnot, now. But you can look all you want to, but don't touch. Interviewer: Don't touch. 556: Don't touch. Interviewer: And if uh you somebody asks uh for an apple, a child you see let's say, give 556: Give it to him. Interviewer: Uh, give me a apple. 556: Give me an apple. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And then you might cry and say why are you crying? Well, he didn't, he didn't give 556: Didn't give me the apple. Interviewer: Didn't give me any or any didn't give me none. Uh. If you ask somebody can he do something, would you explain different responses that you might might get? What was he he's not sure? 556: He would say well, I don't know. Do the best I can I'll think about it or maybe. Interviewer: Maybe. Would uh he ever say well, suppose he talked to an older man he said do you think you think you could do it now or or your health good enough? He say well I might. 556: Might get to it later. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. I was wondering uh might could. Do you ever hear that? Oh, I might could do that. # 556: #2 Oh yeah. # Maybe it might could. That's used, but generally it's maybe could. Interviewer: #1 Maybe could. # 556: #2 Maybe I could. # Interviewer: {NW} 556: And never perhaps I could. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: The word perhaps is used very very infrequently. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And the might could is what's interesting. 556: #1 Yeah, well, that expression's used. # Interviewer: #2 I might could do that. # 556: I might can do it. Yeah, sure that's used quite often. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And uh if an if you were to say something like this uh I I wish that you had done that uh I didn't know that you could and he would say, yes, I might 556: Might could've done it. Interviewer: Might could've done. 556: Might could've done it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: I'm gonna make some coffee. Interviewer: Alright, sure uh 556: Just give me just a minute. {NW} Interviewer: I haven't had any coffee this morning. {NW} 556: Now I tried to put it back together, but it it didn't work so good. Interviewer: Oh yes. 556: #1 It broke. The pieces were too tiny. Uh. # Interviewer: #2 Yes. Uh, that's too bad. # That's too bad. 556: I couldn't it was too small sometimes I get things back. There's my grandfather's Bible {NS} old family Bible's dates back to 1880. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {NS} 556: #1 Sure. # Interviewer: #2 There are if I could just ask you a few more questions. I just this business of doing things uh now if he wants to be more positive, you say something more positive than might could. Can you do that, he'd say why # He he wants to be sure that you know he can and he will. How would he express that? {NS} Can you do that? You say why 556: Why sure I can. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: #1 Sure, I can do it. # Interviewer: #2 Or # {NW} if he's um uh does he make a distinction between uh whether he wants to or whether he's physically able? If he wants to, he'll say well, 556: Do the best I can. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Best I can but uh of course if he's not able, he'll some kind of excuse. Feeling kind of poorly. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: #1 That's used that's used a lot of people, poorly. # Interviewer: #2 Yeah, I I # I can do it. Uh, what does that mean? If if you ask a man uh will you do this and he said well, I I can do it. 556: I can do it alright, when I get to it. Interviewer: #1 {X} to count on it. # 556: #2 When I can # Say I can do it okay. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Yeah. Interviewer: Or if if he turns you down, you say no I 556: No, I can't do it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Can't do it. Either can or he can't. Interviewer: Uh, you avoid saying I won't. Is that right? 556: Uh not going to refuse just say I can't get to it. Got us some work down at the legion building right now. Been asked if I would do some concrete work down there, but said I'll do it just as quick as I can get to it. Quick as I can get to it. I haven't forgot. I'll get to it sometimes. You'd say when? Oh, I don't know I'm busy I'll get to it just as quick as I can. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Just as quick as he can he'll get to it. Interviewer: In other words, uh he he'll never tell you 556: No, he's not gonna #1 {D: ever say} # Interviewer: #2 I won't. # 556: No, he won't refuse, but he just never gets to it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: There's a colored painter here in town. {NS} He's been promising me he's gonna come here and paint my bathroom I know for six months. Every time I see him. I'll get to you next week. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Well, that's been going on now since uh I'd say May. And he still hasn't gotten to it. I'll get to it, though. I'll get there. You don't get me out. Don't get me out, he said. Don't get me out. I'll get to it just quick as I can. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And I say well you been saying that now for uh since May. Yes sir, but I just been so busy. I just haven't been able to get to it, but I'll get to it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: So he'll probably finally get to it, but in his own good time. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Uh if somebody uh gives instructions for doing something uh no, don't do it that way. Do it do it what? 556: Uh. Interviewer: Uh, don't do it that way. Do it 556: Mean in a different way? Interviewer: Yeah, or do it this way. Or this away. 556: This way or that away. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: That away is {NW} Interviewer: That away. 556: That away. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: That away is a is quite an expression. Interviewer: Uh if that uh that away is wrong do it 556: This away. Interviewer: This away. 556: This away or that away. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: This away or that away is the way you want it done. It's wrong, but this away I want it done. Interviewer: Some uh something happens that looks like an accident. You say, no, it was no accident, he 556: Done it on purpose. Interviewer: Purpose. Uh-huh. And uh how bout uh you tell a child {NW} well, let's put it this way. Suppose the crops are held back by the rain, and you say well uh, the uh corn isn't as tall as it 556: Oughta be. Interviewer: Oughta be. Uh but uh suppose you say uh to a child now you didn't do that the way you 556: Oughta have done it. Interviewer: Oughta have done it. Mm-hmm. 556: They didn't do it like they ought to have done it. Interviewer: And how how is should uh used uh you to a child you say now you 556: You mean the you mean when you wanna say you should've done it? Interviewer: Yes, uh. 556: Well, you ought to have done it this way. Interviewer: I see. 556: They use the word oughta a whole lot. Oughta, you oughta have done it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And the uh opposite of ought to is No, you 556: Like I heard I probably heard the expression she never done a thing that she hadn't oughta. Interviewer: I see. 556: Never done anything that she hadn't oughta. In other words, that she had had not transgressed the rules of propriety, we'll say. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: She'd never done a thing that she hadn't oughta. {NS} Interviewer: And how would he say uh the the opposite uh he does everything that he 556: Oughta do. Interviewer: Or or what how would you say the opposite? Uh. Oughten could. 556: Ought not have done. Interviewer: Ought not have done. Mm-hmm. 556: Oughta not have done. Interviewer: If uh if you if you see somebody who's been very sick and you say well {NW} I don't know they say he's getting along, but uh I it just seems to me that he don't ever 556: Yeah, he's getting along poorly. He's not done good. He's poorly. He's uh something like that. Interviewer: It seems as as it seems to me that he seems like 556: Ain't getting any better. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And {NW} if uh you say something like that to a to a man what what go fishing with me, and he'll say well {NW} No, I I won't go with any of he's trying to tell you he wants his uh brother to go along or friend. Says I I won't go unless 556: Can't go myself lesson you take so-and-so with me. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Lesson you to take someone. Lesson you to do this. Unless is where he's driving at. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh you say instead of sitting around uh uh you uh you should you should help me uh. Um does that sound that you could use help you say why did you sit around uh 556: You coulda say I coulda used you. Interviewer: Uh. 556: Coulda used you. In other words, you coulda helped me. I coulda used you. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. You did something {NW} instead of playing uh I could've used you in the house. 556: #1 Yeah, that's right. # Interviewer: #2 Could've done. # Mm-hmm. And how about uh she isn't afraid now, but uh you might say she now that she's grown, she's not afraid, but she sure, as a child, she 556: She was a fraidy cat when she was a child. Interviewer: She used to be uh. 556: Fraidy. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And the old gray mare, she ain't what 556: Ain't what she used to be. Interviewer: And the opposite of used to be is uh um 556: Uh. Interviewer: Now I don't understand why she's afraid now. She {NS} 556: Wait. {NS} You don't use cream, do you? Interviewer: No sir. I don't. 556: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Alright, thank you. # 556: {NS} Oh you're gonna put it on tape? Interviewer: Oh, the 556: {NS} Oh, you see? Interviewer: Ain't that right? Uh. {NW} I would have a cure for a or either kill or a cure if uh you put that down #1 down her back. That's # 556: #2 {X} # Yeah, these fool remedies. Interviewer: Uh. 556: I went in one's house up here one day, and I noticed on the mantle was a glass full of hooves off a hog's foot. I mean that they slipped just the hoof off. And had that glass full of those dried hooves. I wanna know what are you saving those hooves for. Said let me tell you one thing, Mr. Crigley. Said that's the best stuff in the world for pneumonia. Say if you takes pneumonia, you parch them hooves and grind them up. And put 'em in water and drink it. Said it'll cure any case of pneumonia in the world. That's what we'd say is if we had a case of pneumonia. {NW} Hog hooves. Interviewer: Uh. By the way, didn't as a matter of fact uh isn't that a dish uh boiling the uh the hooves and making a kind of uh 556: Uh, you'll make a pig's foot jelly. Interviewer: Jelly. 556: But that's you take the hooves off before you do that. That is a is a it would be a nail like a nail you know that slips off. Interviewer: #1 Oh. # 556: #2 And they're hardened. # A nail is not to put itself, you see. Interviewer: #1 Well, when they were born in Houston. This they old # 556: #2 They slipped # They slipped that they they said they grind that up and boil it and drink the water. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And I had the whooping cough. Oh, I was gosh I was grown I thought I was gonna cough myself to death, and I went down the street one day, and I One of those {X} hit me. You know. You ever had whooping cough? Interviewer: Yeah. 556: #1 It's awful, especially when you're grown. # Interviewer: #2 It is. # 556: And I was coughing, this old nigger came out in the summertime he had an old coat. {NW} And said wouldn't keep out the heat. It'll keep out the cold anyhow. He stopped and looked at me like he might fare the last time. He says got the whooping cough, ain't you? He say I sure have. Well, he say I tell you what'll cure it. I said well, I've tried everything else in the world. What do you say? Say backs says back in slavery time Always referred to slavery time My ma had eight children and said we all had whooping cough And says you went out in the woods and found an old hornet nest And brought it home and cut it up with a shears and boiled it in a pot of water. And gave us a gourd dip and said now drink all you can hold and says we did and we never coughed another time. Interviewer: Hmm. 556: And I came home and looked all over the country for a hornet nest. {NW} Interviewer: Was uh power of suggestion is pretty powerful in many of those things, don't you think? Uh. 556: I imagine so. These old But you know they'd found that some of those old remedies have a basis of Interviewer: #1 Medical {X} # 556: #2 Medical fact uh behind 'em. # And I don't know about the hornet nest or the pig knuckles but Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Or the bowls would, but {NW} Interviewer: Did you uh did you ever have to drink uh sassafras tea? 556: #1 No, but I but that was quite a remedy back in my younger days out in the country. # Interviewer: #2 It's very uh # 556: Lot of the old people did drink it. Interviewer: What what was that supposed to be for or 556: Coughs, colds, anything. Any pulmonary troubles uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Supposed to. Aren't they used it for tonic too I understand. Spring tonic. Interviewer: Did they grow or does it does 556: It grows wild as a thickets of it. I've just seen woods of it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: That uh it grows wild. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: {X} Used for various purposes. Interviewer: I have just a few more of these uh to to ask you uh Suppose that uh somebody says that her neighbor hardly got the news when she came right over and then how would she she say to tell me? Uh, she hardly got the news, and she came right over {NS} Uh, would she say for for to tell me? 556: Well, that expression not used much now. I came for to tell you so-and-so. That that is that's just about gone out, but formerly, that was used. I've heard it used. Came for to tell you so-and-so. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: But that that's not used much now. I haven't heard it in a long time. Interviewer: Hmm. And uh if somebody does something that doesn't make much sense uh what would people 556: Outlandish. #1 Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 Outlandish and they'd say nah now just look at that what? # Okay, what kind of word would you use for an adult who had done things that you know didn't make much sense? 556: #1 Well, that's a good word that outlandish. That's used quite # Interviewer: #2 Mm. # Well, what would you call him? The person doing it. Say, I just look at that fool? 556: Well, you could say that. Interviewer: Or is is that too strong? Uh. 556: That a little too strong. Call him a idiot. Interviewer: #1 I see. # 556: #2 {NW} # {NW} Idiotic. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Idiotic, say. Interviewer: But uh if you'd say that fool is really a really pretty strong. 556: Yeah, that's you know a little strong. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: {NW} Interviewer: And uh suppose somebody smiles a lot. Ordinarily kind of grouchy, but he smiles a lot. You say well, he you're you seem to be in good what 556: Pretty good humor. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And uh if how how would you uh talk about getting a an envelope ready for a letter? What I'm looking for is the different ways to use address or address 556: Back it. Interviewer: Back it. 556: They I'll back it to you. That's the illiterate expression. I've heard a many one of them come to the post office and say wish you'd back this for me to so-and-so. Interviewer: Uh. 556: They mean address it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: I had a nigger girl come in the office one day and ask me to back this letter to Washington, D.C. I said well you have to have some person to back it to. Who do you want to send it to? Oh, nobody special, just Washington, D.C. I said well that's just foolish. You you don't want to who would they give the letter to after it got to Washington, D.C. And she never would tell me. And she went on out. And reckon I saw her slip back in and the letter was addressed to the president of Washington, D.C. Now, she wouldn't tell me that, see? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: But she got somebody to do it. She but uh It was addressed to the president of Washington, D.C. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: But she wouldn't tell me that at all. Interviewer: Do you remember any uh any words for uh an answer I has should they might 556: They generally say write right back. Interviewer: Write back. 556: Write right back. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Um. They wouldn't write in the letter I expect a I expect a 556: Reply? Interviewer: Reply. 556: #1 Well, they'd say write me right back. # Interviewer: #2 Back? # Uh-huh. 556: #1 Write me right back. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # And uh if if they back the letter, what would they say or what did most people say for the uh for the name and the street and so on itself? 556: You mean the address? Interviewer: Yes, uh did it have a name? 556: No. Interviewer: {X} Special or. The words back {NS} means uh the act of doing it. 556: #1 Yeah, backing into whole thing. # Interviewer: #2 Back the # Mm-hmm. 556: They'd ask you to back it for 'em. That meant the whole deal. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {NW} I'd heard or read about that, but I never heard that uh. 556: #1 I've heard it a thousand times. A # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 556: I was in the Navy once, and you re- you know Senator {X} Senator from Mississippi? Interviewer: Yes. 556: He was in there. It was two of his nephews. {X} Jay, and they were two of the most illiterate boys I ever saw. And one of those {X} boys asked me one day to back a letter home for him. Asked me to back it he he could hardly write, but he wrote the letter. But he knew he couldn't write well enough to address it, so he asked me to back it for him. Interviewer: Mm. 556: And that's been fifty years ago. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Back it. Interviewer: Well let's switch over to uh some to some other words that you use for vegetables uh I think that's what we were talking about food yesterday, and and uh how bout uh different things that people grow in their in their gardens or homes in the first place. 556: Garden sass. Interviewer: Garden sass? 556: Yeah. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And that would be their {NW} their uh what kind of things? 556: Any kind of vegetables. Anything in the garden. Interviewer: What would be the the more familiar ones? Just name them off. 556: Oh, taters. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Uh, sweet? 556: #1 Uh, yes. Uh some of the colored people say spare-a-grass instead of asparagus. Tomatoes. # Interviewer: #2 Asparagus? # Uh-huh. How bout uh Do the do people used to talk about uh yams or is that a more recent term? 556: No, it was sweet po- sweet taters. Irish potatoes what they. That yams was that was never a word used. I never heard of the word till I got grown. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: They didn't call 'em yams at all. They was taters. Interviewer: And uh. 556: Like those fellows say had one day I didn't raise much corn and cotton, but lord guard the taters. {NS} Interviewer: They never grew any rice here, did they? Or how would they use the rice? Uh In what kind of dish? 556: Or didn't uh nothing. They used the rice and gravy. They would make a bowl of rice and then some kind of gravy or butter. Interviewer: Mm. 556: I don't know the way they ate rice. Interviewer: Hmm. How bout different kinds of onions uh? 556: Well, of course the onions now the on- the ones you buy in the store don't have a bit of authority. We used the old onions we used to raise was hearty as five. The old red onions. They were they had some authority. But these mild onions you get now don't have a taste of them at all, do they? Interviewer: #1 No, what what are did you have these big sweet ones? Spanish? # 556: #2 Spanish Spanish onions. Mm-hmm. # Interviewer: Uh, any Bermuda onions? 556: Yeah. {X} Had those, too. But we liked we always liked the red onions because they had uh a strong flavor to them, you know. They were Interviewer: I like the little green ones. Uh, what did you call those 556: Spring onions. Interviewer: Spring onions. 556: Yeah, they were I raised had a row of 'em out there in my garden this year Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: That spring onions. Interviewer: Uh how did people say uh okra or 556: Okra. Interviewer: Okra, uh-huh. 556: Okra. Interviewer: And that was used mostly for soups and 556: Yeah, I believe. There was all kinds of ways to fix okra you could uh you could boil it, of course. And you could chip it up and you could fry it and you could make it and put it in vegetable soup. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: So different, and my grandmother as a holdover from Civil War days, she used to dry it. Interviewer: Dry it? 556: She cut it in little slices Spread it out on a sheet on the roof and dry it. That was I say that was a holdover from Civil War days where they had to extemporize more or less, you know. She still dried apples and peaches and okra and made hominy like we explained yesterday and sauerkraut. Of course, molasses. Interviewer: How would she use the dried hominy? 556: #1 Eh and and uh and boil it up not the hominy, they didn't dry the hominy. Okra? # Interviewer: #2 Didn't they uh. # 556: Oh, generally in soup. Vegetable soup. Interviewer: After it was dried? 556: Yeah. You put it in you put it i- i- you put it with water, it comes right back, you know? Interviewer: And the flavor's still there? 556: Yeah, sure. Interviewer: Hmm. 556: It was alright. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Now what uh little radishes uh you have? 556: Yep. Interviewer: What types of those do you remember? 556: We had the long ones and the little round ones. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Two types. One was long and we used to grow big ones great big things. They'd grow about that big. I don't know what you'd call them, but we used to have some big radishes. Interviewer: And how bout uh {NW} different greens and did you call 'em greens or uh 556: Yeah, greens. Mustard greens. Collards. Collards, cabbage, kale. {NS} Um. Interviewer: What did you call the greens when they were very young? 556: #1 Still greens. # Interviewer: #2 Still greens? # 556: Yeah. Interviewer: Does this word salad have much? 556: Yeah, well salad salad was uh a preparation of different vegetables cut up together. They cut up lettuce and tomatoes and cucumbers. Interviewer: You never used the word salad for the greens? 556: No. Interviewer: Poke salad. 556: Now poke salad they did use poke salad because but that grew wild. You went out and gathered that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Called it poke salad, yeah. Interviewer: But you're you're saying the salad was a dish rather than the greens? 556: Right. Interviewer: Oh, I see. 556: #1 Right. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm. # #1 And how bout these little wild tomatoes about the size of your hand? # 556: #2 Yeah, mm-hmm. # Interviewer: What uh Did you ever call 'em tommy toes? 556: Called 'em vol well they generally called 'em volunteers. My grandmother told me that she remembered when tomatoes were called love apples, and they thought they were poisoned and wouldn't eat 'em. And they uh all were very small then. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And uh They still grow these little tomatoes as far up here {X} little things. And they're nice in soup and things like that. Those tiny tomatoes. Interviewer: Would you uh explain about uh beans, different kinds of beans and how you'd harvest and how you'd 556: Well, we had pole beans and bunch beans. The pole beans you had to stick 'em. They grew up on and you generally got keens out of the swamp and stuck 'em in they grew that was a pole bean which considered much better than bunch beans. Bunch beans came in earlier. But of course they never let 'em mature, you know. They picked 'em green and snapped 'em, as they called 'em and And generally cooked 'em with with uh pork. Piece of ham hock or bacon or something like that. Interviewer: How how bout uh dried beans? Did you dry 'em? 556: No. No, they never they never dried 'em, but they let 'em mature. Interviewer: Or if uh you had butter beans inside, how did you get them out? 556: Butter beans were different now you picked the butter beans in {X} Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: #1 That's a different. No, never dried it. Not a # Interviewer: #2 Ever dry any uh # Different uh parts of uh corn in the first place corn that you grow for the table would be different from what you grew from the hogs? Uh. 556: Well, yeah. There was a sweet corn Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: that was for table use, and they called that other horse corn. Interviewer: I see. 556: They didn't They they grew this corn Was a sweet corn for the table. Interviewer: But you'd eat it at the table uh hold it in your hand. 556: Yeah right {D: I had a like a good hour end up beside he'd get it all} {NS} She'd hold about two passes. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Uh, what was that called? Say, it's a sweet corn. 556: Corn on the cob. Interviewer: Corn on the cob. 556: Then they had it fried and fried corn too and they made corn fritters. Interviewer: Corn fritters? 556: Fried, yeah. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Uh. Cut the corn off the cob, and make it into fritters. And fry it, you know, and pretty good. Make corn fritters about like that. Interviewer: How bout uh the word roasting ears, did you? 556: Rosin ears. Interviewer: Uh is that the same as corn uh corn on the cob? 556: I'd say it. Interviewer: Oh. Which is the earlier term, you'd think? 556: I had a letter from a nigger friend of mine up at our old home place. Told me to come and get some W-R-O-E-S-I-N. Say the way he spelled it, wroesin is W-R-O-E-S-I-N. I didn't know what he talking about. Said his wroesin ears was ready. Come up and get a mess. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. How bout uh mutton corn, did you ever hear that? 556: No. Interviewer: And {NS} the stuff that's at the on the end of the ear that you have to pull off. 556: Tossels. Interviewer: And 556: I mean the silk. {NS} And they called it the tassels or called tossels. {NS} Interviewer: #1 Yes, well some people have have told me that the that they in other words that they use tossels for silk, so I'm interested in what you would say there. # 556: #2 No, no the # tossels were up at the top. The silk came out of the ear, Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: and that the uh that's the way they were fertilized, you see. The tossels fell down on the silk left to the corn. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: But the tassels up at the top of the stalk, you know. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {NS} 556: Uh, they called 'em tossels. Interviewer: The uh the people who call that stuff at the top of the stalk uh spindle will call the silk tossel. 556: Well, they got it. Interviewer: Uh, that's those not familiar 556: No, they got that backwards. The tossels are up at the top, and the silk came out of the ear. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And uh around the corn of course did you did you mention uh using uh uh stuffing sausage into anything other than the intestine? 556: No. Interviewer: You you never smoked sausage in uh the husks? 556: No, no it always no. #1 It was all. Shuck. # Interviewer: #2 Well did you say the outside the ear of corn is is a shuck? # Shuck. Uh. 556: Yeah, no shucks were were dried and often used for cattle food. Cows will eat it. And they made used to make shuck mattress as a matter of fact the colored people all used those shucks they dried 'em to make shuck mattresses. Interviewer: Mattresses. 556: Fact I slept on a shuck mattress one night, and I thought I'd never go to sleep. Interviewer: #1 {NS} # 556: #2 Up all the rustling they care. Shucks. # They cut the end of it off and just keep the shuck. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Shuck mattresses. That was quite common back years ago. Interviewer: And uh things that you'd find in the woods uh have a stalk, a stem, and a cap? 556: Yeah toadstools. Frog stools, we called. Interviewer: Frog stools, and if you could eat 'em, what 556: Uh. We didn't. We didn't know which one was poisoned, which one wasn't. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: We had heard of such things as eating them but we were also told they were poisonous. Unless you know what you're doing you'd better not eat 'em. Interviewer: Uh different kinds of squash uh and melons that you remember. 556: Yeah, uh we always had a big patch of watermelons and cantaloupes. Lots of watermelons, oh boy, the watermelons. Big water every afternoon about four o'clock we'd bust open cut about half a dozen watermelons. My grandpa especially good one big one it'd be a fine water- he'd say listen save the seed for this one now. So we'd always carefully save the seeds from that big watermelon, put 'em up to dry and then put 'em in an envelope to be planted the next year. Interviewer: Mm. 556: If there was especially good melon you know it's you may wanna save the seed out of this one, now for next year. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And that is selective planting, you know, by getting the best seed. Interviewer: Sure. 556: So we'd save those seeds, dry 'em out in the sun, and put 'em in an envelope, and write on there what kind of a watermelon it was a Kleckley sweet or a Georgia rattlesnake or whatever it was. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Had different names for all those watermelons. I remember my grandfather was very partial to a watermelon called the Kleckley sweet. And this Georgia rattlesnake. Interviewer: Georgia rattlesnake reminds me for some reason of uh of a word I heard for wheelbarrow. Uh what did you call the thing with handles and 556: Wheelbarrow. Interviewer: Wheelbarrow. And did you ever hear that called a Georgia buggy? 556: No, I've heard the expression, but we never used it. Interviewer: Uh-huh. Uh, to get back to vegetables here, how bout uh squash what kind of squash did did you use? 556: Just ordinary squash. We never heard of this uh this newfangled squash they got now um We just had a regular squash. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Round they were round we had two different types. One was round, one was looked like gourd, long-necked squash. Called it a long-necked squash. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. You mentioned cantaloupe, uh are the did you have cantaloupe and mush melon or? 556: Oh yeah. Interviewer: Are are are they the same? 556: No, they're different. They're different melons. Different varieties. They're first cousins, but we had both kinds. See, the the mush melons are pretty big. About this size, and #1 cantaloupe's round. # Interviewer: #2 Are there # The bigger the I see 556: The big one is the mush, they call it the mush melon. Mush k-melon. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Uh. Interviewer: And how about the big uh fruit oh may get this big. Kids like it at Halloween. 556: Pumpkins? Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Oh yeah, we raised pumpkins. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: And different up in Pennsylvania they raised I went through Pennsylvania last October. And they had shocked the corn, something they never do down here. And in the after they shocked that corn, thousands of pumpkins all over the field. And they feed 'em to cows and hogs. I never heard of that before. Interviewer: No. 556: They bring that there the farmers bring whole truckloads and dump 'em over in their hog pen and those hogs eat they bust 'em open and the cows eat 'em. I never heard of it before. But in Pennsylvania, that's what they were doing. They were feeding those pumpkins to cows and hogs. Interviewer: I never heard of that. 556: #1 Well I saw it. I know they did it. I didn't know they # Interviewer: #2 Well, I seen pictures # But I never knew what they used the uh used the fruit for. 556: Well, that's what they used it for. Cattle feed and hog feed. Interviewer: Fact that's a very attractive scene, is it? 556: #1 Yeah, and seeing those big fields. And they plant the pumpkins in with the corn. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Mm-hmm. 556: Make two crops on one field, and they shocked the corn. Something they never do down here. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: They gather the corn what they do here they pull the leaves and make fodder out of it, see? And then tie it up into bundles, which makes good horse feed and mule feed. But up there I don't know why they shock it or what they do with it after they shock it. Interviewer: What uh region was that? 556: That was through Pennsylvania, I saw was Interviewer: Well, what area in Pennsylvania was it? The uh 556: Well, it went right through the center of the state. It went by Beaver Falls and Interviewer: I wondered if it's the reason I ask is uh if you're talking about Amish uh people, and they're 556: #1 Now, this wasn't the Amish section # Interviewer: #2 It wasn't? Uh. # 556: No. But they say that's quite common. They they shock the corn all through there. Interviewer: It sounds like an old fashioned way of doing it, doesn't it? Uh. 556: Yeah, they they go through the field, pull the corn off first, and then cut the stalks down and tie 'em into great shucks. {NS} There they are, you know. Look look like an Indian tepee. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: There they were, all over the fields all shocked. In every farmhouse you pass hot pumpkin pies. We stopped at one farmhouse. It was a cold, dreary day, and I was tired of driving, so we drove in this beautiful farmhouse and they had golden {D: gurns} of cream and hot p- pumpkin pies and I went there and there wasn't nobody there but us as big a living room, a big fire crackling there. It was very nice. She served us hot pumpkin pie and with golden {D: gurns} of cream. Very good. Interviewer: That is rare. Hard to find whipped cream now, genuine. 556: The lady said she made fifty pumpkin pies every morning, and she was not gonna make any more. That's all I'm gonna make. And she says she sold fifty of those pies a day. Just that little sign out on the gate out on the highway. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Uh, when we had coffee yesterday you said uh that you had not heard uh drinking coffee uh for a how how do you express drinking coffee without milk? 556: Straight. Interviewer: Straight. And you never heard of barefoot drink it? 556: No, straight. Interviewer: Colorful terms. The different uh names you'd have for for homemade whiskey. 556: Oh rot gut. {NW} Interviewer: That's that's something bad, is that? 556: #1 Rot gut. White white lightning. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # And was that good whiskey, or 556: Mm. Interviewer: No. 556: Yesterday the day before yesterday we had this meeting with the Indians down here. Upstairs this Indian I mean um deputy sheriff came up stuck his head in the door, and I went out and say what do you want? Say we just got a still we raided. She'd like to look at it. Said we still got the niggers operating we come down here you can see them both. {NW} And I went down there and they had this very crude still. Horrible thing. That odor was {NS} just literally vile And they had that thing. There was a copper wire that went down a fifty-five gallon metal barrel. The crudest thing you ever saw. And just think, people drink that stuff. {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm. That's why it's called rot gut, huh? 556: #1 Rot gut, white lightning. # Interviewer: #2 You ever hear of the stout whiskey? # 556: #1 Oh yeah. Yeah. # Interviewer: #2 Call's to # 556: Yeah, that's called it that. Stump water. Interviewer: Stump water? 556: Mountain dew. Rot gut. White lightning. Interviewer: And how bout different kinds of berries that you recall? 556: Well, of course we had blackberries and dewberries and strawberries. That's about all. Interviewer: You never had uh you never called blackberries raspberries? 556: Uh well I've had raspberries myself uh down in my other home I had some raspberry bushes but we didn't have thing. We'd go out and pick edible country'd be covered with blackberries. The dewberries come on first, you know. Early in the spring. And the blackberries come on way later. Blackberries are much superior to dewberries. So we used to go out and pick 'em by the bucketfuls and out grandmother and mother would make blackberries jam and jelly and all that kind of stuff. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And how bout nuts uh 556: #1 Well, we had uh # Interviewer: #2 {X} barks # 556: Back in those days we had uh There were lots of um chestnuts but you know that some disease killed every chestnut tree in this country. You can't find a chestnut tree now, but they were we could pick up a lot of chestnuts. And of course you can associate a box of pecans and chinquapins. There are lots of chinquapins. And the best of all of 'em, though, is scalybobs. Interviewer: Uh. What name do you remember for peanuts? Uh. 556: Goobers. Interviewer: Did you always say 556: Goobers. Interviewer: Uh-huh. And uh the flat, old-shaped nuts uh they're used use 'em often at Christmas 556: Oh. Interviewer: Grow around 556: You mean nigger toes? Interviewer: Uh. 556: Almonds. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: The black ones. You call Interviewer: Yes, you don't grow any of those? 556: No, they don't grow here. We can buy 'em for Christmas. Interviewer: And uh what do you remember about growing fruit commercially, and uh did you have any 556: We didn't grow it commercially. We had my grand both my grandfathers had big orchards, peaches and apples and plums, but just for the family use. We never tried never sold had nobody to sell 'em to. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: We didn't try to sell 'em. We just had all we wanted. Interviewer: And uh how bout the uh the cherry? Did you have any, did you grow any? 556: Wild cherries only. We had several wild cherry trees on the place. I remember climbing that tree and picking those. They were little, tiny things. Interviewer: #1 Smaller or # 556: #2 But they # Yeah uh They wasn't very sweet. They were wild cherries. Interviewer: What uh how did you refer to the hard thing inside the cherry uh? Was that? 556: Well, you mean the pit? Interviewer: That for the pit? 556: That was the seed. Interviewer: Uh. Now, {NW} that's what I was interested in. Whether you had cherry pits in what you had inside a uh a peach. What would that be? 556: That was a seed. Interviewer: That'd be a seed. 556: We never referred 'em never called 'em pits. Interviewer: Oh. And to to tear a peach apart, what would you call it if it would stick to the seed and 556: Well, one was a frees one was a cling and the other was a freestone. Interviewer: Freestone? 556: Yeah. Interviewer: #1 You ever hear the # 556: #2 Why it came apart. # Interviewer: The cling called a plum peach? 556: No. Interviewer: Mm. And uh Mentioned your grandmother drying things. Uh, how would she dry apples? Would she take 556: Slice 'em. Interviewer: #1 Slice # 556: #2 In thin slices. # Interviewer: Would she take the uh center out? 556: Just straight through. Didn't take out anything. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Just cut 'em straight through in thin slices and spread 'em out on a sheet. Interviewer: #1 Ever hear those called snits? # 556: #2 And dry 'em. # Mm. Interviewer: Snits. 556: Never heard that word. Interviewer: And uh. 556: Also, we had a lot of mulberries. We had an enormous mulberry tree and by the way {NW} I you asked me. {NW} {C:I think this is mic feedback from 556 moving around} Almost forgot it. #1 That's the best that's the best I could do is these sketches. # Interviewer: #2 Yes, oh that's fine. # Yes see. 556: Now let's see which one was this one this was my grand what was I saying? Interviewer: Harvey. 556: Alright. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: That was one grandfather's house. Now here was the cistern now. And right here was a big farm bell up on a post way up in the air. That bell that probably weighed two or three hundred pounds. That he rung the bell. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: It was rung at daylight in the morning and and rung again and twelve o'clock to come to lunch and then at one o'clock to go back to work. And it was also used to signal various things. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: I've pulled that rope a many a time. Interviewer: Now these are fine 556: No, those are front steps. Now these are the columns cross the front. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Of the porch. And now the cistern now was down there. And that's why he ran the gutter down when he need a little water. At intervals. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. #1 Yes, you put that in and # 556: #2 See, and this was a back porch and this was a kitchen and that was a dining room. And the poker I was telling you over the dining room table it went. Those are windows there. # Interviewer: See. You mark where the poker was? 556: Put that over the dining room table. Interviewer: Um. It ran out the 556: Ran out the window. Mm-hmm. Interviewer: Window. 556: That's that's it was a pulley up in the roof. Interviewer: There was no H in the end there? P-U-N-K-A. 556: K-A. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Those are the front steps, and here's the back steps and that was the back porch and the kitchen right close to the dining room. Those are hall and that's the four rooms. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: Now the other one it's a kind of a strange looking house, but this was put on later. That was the original house. #1 This little passageway from the kitchen to the dining room right through there see that room on each side, the store rooms. # Interviewer: #2 Oh. # 556: Thunder rooms. And this was put on later and that's the porch all the way around it. Those three rooms there. Course you walked right off the porch right into those. Right onto this little porch. Interviewer: In uh earlier times did they was the kitchen separated from the house or? 556: To here altogether it was out in the yard in case of fire, see? Interviewer: Oh, I see. 556: And they want to get the kitchen as far away from the house as possible. If the kitchen caught on fire, they probably could try to cut the fire off here see. They wanted to get the kitchen as far away as possible. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: See, they put it way out here. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: #1 In this case in this other one it was detached, see? # Interviewer: #2 By the uh porch. # 556: Yeah, the porch and it was away. Interviewer: Mm. 556: And sometimes it wa- was out in the yard, but of course that brought on complications of bringing the food into the house. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: In many of the older homes the kitchen was entirely detached had a covered walkway. So in case there was a fire, it wouldn't Now this was my grandfather's it was a doctor's office there. That was his office. That was his consulting room back there. That was out in the corner of the yard. Interviewer: That's where the ladies quilted. 556: That's where they did the quilting in this Interviewer: #1 You must have kept the frame. # 556: #2 They used that for the quilting. # Interviewer: #1 Couple of nice # 556: #2 Well they you could put it up # against the ceiling, see? And then they'd let it down when they needed it. Otherwise, it was up. Had uh pulleys, you know, on each corner. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 556: #2 Pulled it up and it # out of the way. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And when they wanted to use it they would they lowered it. Interviewer: Well, those are fine. I really appreciate your taking the time to do that. Cause it's 556: This was a chicken house, and and I'd smoke outside of of course the smokehouse and the smokehouse was much larger than that, but that's why it was located back over here. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And that was the cistern had you know all covered with a roof and a wall around it with a windlass that you wound the Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: bucket up from the well. Interviewer: No, we'll keep these right with the uh tapes, and uh it's an interesting record. And {NW} people will hear the tapes can can uh follow this this 556: Now that old home there is burned. It's gone. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. They uh thank you very much indeed. 556: Of course the numerous outhouse and carriage house stood out there and the barn and the back house and all that kind of stuff. They was out, too. Didn't have room to show 'em on that sheet of paper. #1 Oh boy. # Interviewer: #2 Okay good. Leave them here with the tapes, put them together. Uh, and {NW} and a few more questions. When uh {NW} do you remember first getting fruit from Florida or Texas? Uh what was it an occasion for Christmas or? # 556: Yeah. The first fruits we got was lemons. We used to get 'em by boxes and they're from Italy. Those lemons lemons were always Italian lemons. The first one that I saw shipped in here were from Italy, and each uh lemon wrapped up in a little piece of tissue paper. Interviewer: Hmm. 556: You got 'em in boxes and and we used the boxes for hen nests, never got through with 'em. They we'd always go to the store and beg a lemon box for hen nests. You know they would divide it in it's two squares together, and you could put a plank across the bottom and make a good hen nest. That's uh that's my earliest recollection of shipped-in fruit was those Italian lemons. Interviewer: And uh later from Florida. What uh 556: The oranges. Then we got to getting in oranges by the boxes from Florida. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: And they were numbered according to the number of oranges in the box. Always had a number on 'em. So many box of oranges to the box. And but uh you only saw oranges at Christmas. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 556: My uncle lived way out here in the country. Pickens county, Alabama. {NW} And they always got a orange in the stocking at Christmas for the toe of the stocking. And he said one August they went to Columbus, which was there about twenty miles. They went to Columbus. And he came back and he told the boys said out there in the country they sold oranges in the stores in August. Well, they couldn't believe that, and he said he never did live that lie down. They wouldn't believe it. Said he knew they only had oranges at Christmas. Interviewer: At Christmas that uh 556: Yeah, they could sure. Interviewer: {NW} People {NW} have sugar maples around, but did did they ever uh tap for 556: Uh no. Interviewer: Uh. 556: No, never heard of such thing as maple syrup. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And if if they had some uh if they would refer to to uh syrup that came in from New England, say. {NW} They'd say is this is this genu- 556: Genuine. Interviewer: Genuine. {X} 556: Map- and they didn't and they didn't like it either. They didn't like it, maple syrup. Interviewer: They didn't? 556: No, they didn't like maple syrup. They liked that old Louisiana molasses. Interviewer: I see. The uh your relative is he uh you always called your what uh you'd say well we have the same name, but she's no 556: No kin. Interviewer: Kin. Uh and uh your grandparents you mentioned uh you mentioned the aunt and oh um do you remember any uh significance {NW} to niece and nephew any confusions there were the terms used for uh very loosely for relatives or were they pretty 556: Yeah, well you know. The word coudin instead of cousin. They used coudin. Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. # 556: #2 Coudin so-and-so. # Interviewer: #1 That that that would mean any relative? # 556: #2 Yeah, any relative was a coudin. # No matter how far off, they was your coudins. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. And if uh a grocer said uh you outghta buy this to a man, and he said well, I might but I'll first I have to ask and he meant his wife, what would he say? 556: Ask the old lady. Interviewer: The old lady? And if if you said that to her, she's say well, perhaps or maybe I'll I'll ask 556: Ask the old man. Interviewer: The old man? 556: Mm. Interviewer: And a woman who lost her husband was 556: She's a widow woman. Interviewer: And if if he just left her then 556: She's a grass widow. Interviewer: Grass widow. 556: Mm. As opposed to a sod widow. Interviewer: I see. Sod widow. 556: Sod widow meant he was dead. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Under the sod. Interviewer: I see. And uh a stranger come to town, what would he be known as? 556: Newcomer. Interviewer: Newcomer? 556: #1 By the way, they had to live here thirty years before they're before they'd be before they were anything but a newcomer. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 556: Fellow lived down here on the corner. I know he lived here fifty years, and they still look up at him as a outsider. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Like a fellow told me in Columbus A run that's that gentleman's let's see what's that runs a clothing {D: Byers and McGrath} There's a clothing store I bought a suit from not long ago, I said how long have you lived in Columbus? Oh, he said, I'm a newcomer. I've only lived here thirty-five years. Says they still haven't accepted me here yet. Says I've only lived here thirty-five years, so I'm a newcomer. Interviewer: I I uh just a couple weeks ago talk was in Tennessee ran into the same thing and a woman said you shouldn't talk to me. You oughta see Mrs. so-and-so. I I've just came here. I've been here only since 1915. 556: Well, this McGrath told me said they still haven't accepted me yet here in Columbus. I lived here thirty-five years and said I'm not even accepted at all. I'm a stranger, newcomer. They have a they have a s- by the way I talked to this group a year or so ago. The origina- they're descendants of the original settlers of Columbus. The original families, and these are the offspring of the original settlers, and it's terrible. You can't get into they had some applications out for people who wanted to get in. They said no, we would have to delve into this further. We can't take that or we had to check on 'em. And they wouldn't wouldn't take them in. They Interviewer: Now is this the club called the Pioneers? 556: I believe that was what it was. {X} Interviewer: I've interviewed a couple of the Pioneer ladies. 556: Maybe it was. I've forgotten the name. The one lady, very charming, and she hardly looks like a Pioneer. She Interviewer: #1 More like a duchess. # 556: #2 Well, she she's a descendant of what was her name? # Interviewer: Uh, she was a {B}. 556: Oh, I I know who you're talking about. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 556: Now her husband or her grandfather was at the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit out here. And he's written a book. I have it. She gave me the book on the signing of the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit. All this country was taken away from the Choctaw Indians. And {B} yeah, I know I know who she is. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Mm. 556: {B} Alabama was named after her grandfather. Interviewer: I see. 556: Well, the first first lock of was Tombigbee waterway's in {B} Alabama. It was named for her grandfather. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Well, he had a very lovely woman, very 556: Oh yeah. Interviewer: gracious and uh and very dynamic, as well. 556: #1 Oh yeah. # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Talk about Pioneers you think is 556: #1 Well, I know it was hard to get in that society because they had several applications from ladies who had # Interviewer: #2 Ninety years old. # 556: But they hasn't given their ancestry quite correctly and they and no, we can't no look they can't go on today. We'll have to check into this further. Interviewer: Mm. 556: Have to do some more research. Hard to get into. Interviewer: Old home was it was 556: Well, see Columbus and Macon was the only two towns on the Mississippi that were never captured during the Civil War and they wasn't burned. That's why they have these old homes out here in in Columbus they wasn't burned most of them were burned to the ground. The whole town. And this town would've been burned. {X}