Interviewer:  {NW} Uh, as you were explaining the switch engines. Are you they have
556:  Well, you you explained about all the old homes. Antebellum homes in Columbus and here in Macon. And the reason we have 'em is that these were the only two towns of any size on the Mississippi that were ever captured or occupied by the federal forces. They had {D: earthquakes} around Columbus. Eight miles long from the river north of town that's entirely encircling the town. {X: Well, Columbus} had no military value, so rather than the loss of life they would have been by the way those embankments were built by slaves. And rather than incur the loss of life to take a town that had no military value, they just bypassed it. And Strait's raiders when he's in his raid from Memphis to I believe Baton Rouge, Louisiana through Mississippi burning, destroying, and and he sent a he went some miles west of Macon, but he sent a company over to burn Macon or destroy it or do whatever he could do. And they camped about they got out here about a mile or two from {X: town and they} camped there that night. And these old men and boys here in town heard about it of course all the ones of military age were gone. Anywhere from seventeen to forty-five were in the army. And there was a couple of old switch engines and this was a railroad center kind of. And these old men and boys got those old switch engines and puff and rang the bell and blew the whistle where they could hear it and bellowing out these commands. And they thought that was a quite a number of Confederate soldiers here, and they only had one country, so they thought best not try to attack 'em, so they went the other direction.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And Macon was saved for that reason.
Interviewer:  {X} Striking. What is the uh the big white church on the the highway there?
556:  That's the methodist church. That's the original methodist church. The original church was built in about I'd say 1840. Back in there.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  But it's been added to and
Interviewer:  It's almost like a mission that's
556:  The original center is is original, but they've added wings and another story and so forth.
Interviewer:  Does it uh have any relation to the Indians or it looks almost like an old uh?
556:  No.
Interviewer:  Mission style.
556:  No, it was built after the Treaty of Dancing Rabbit.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Uh I wonder if you'd just reminisce uh, you know, for a while about school uh how the schoolhouse was uh uh built or how it was furnished uh
556:  Well, the first school I went to was out in the country near my grandfather's when I was a small boy. I started school in a just a one-room country school with one teacher. And the grades already always I mean uh went from the primary up through the eighth or tenth grade. They were grown people in that school. They called it {X} School. And course the little the teachers teacher did the best they could course they were mostly just high school graduates. So my sister and I went to school there. That one-room school until we got up well pretty good so To go to a better school that they moved down here to Macon.
Interviewer:  How was that one-room school furnished? Uh and
556:  Very crudely. We had a a up on a long table across the back of the room with benches down the side and they sat on these benches
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  with a table. The teacher had a table up in the front of the room. And a {NW} wooden fired stove in the middle. We had to get the wood out of the woods. And all the boys brought the dogs to school with 'em everyday. And they'd get into fight under the school.
Interviewer:  {NW}
556:  Heifers sent some of the boys out to stop the dog fight. So much noise. And it recessed or {NS} Noon, lunch, and we'd all go rabbit-hunting. I remember one day at noon we went rabbit-hunting. We got so far from school and had such good luck, we forgot all about going back to school. It's nearly four o'clock when we got back to school.
Interviewer:  What was that called?
556:  What, what, what?
Interviewer:  Uh, being absent like that.
556:  Well, we'd uh It wasn't called in much of anything.
Interviewer:  Was that hooky or? {NS}
556:  Well, we wouldn't use that word hooky till I came to town. We had never heard that word before. We just got so enthralled with the rabbit-hunting. Caught so many rabbits we just didn't go back to school. Got there about four o'clock. Of course the teacher balled us out, so we didn't mind that usually. A little girl weighed about a hundred pounds.
Interviewer:  {NW}
556:  I'll never forget the way we used to go rabbit-hunting. We'd all carry our dogs to school.
Interviewer:  And then uh when you came to town
556:  Came to Macon
Interviewer:  How how was how were the rooms furnished? Uh.
556:  Oh, the were very they had a nice school. The school was very it had a very nice school. Yeah.
Interviewer:  It still have benches?
556:  No, no. It was furnished correctly. It had desks. {NS} Each child had their own desk and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  It's a it was a fine school. I when I out of the third grade when I came to Macon. {NS}
Interviewer:  And uh {NS} What uh you say you played the word here was play hooky and
556:  Oh yeah the yes sir you got a beating Monday morning. We When we was kids, a couple of boys would say we'd we would Was just a week of slow torture for us in school. And we could make it to Friday noon. And Friday afternoon, we'd always play hooky and go out in the {D: season} Come in Monday morning, the teacher would give us a good whipping and that was it. Well, we figured it was worth it, so Mm. Whipping didn't hurt us, you know, so hurt. We figured a half a day out in the woods was worth a little switching.
Interviewer:  Did you ever call uh playing hooky uh {D: boltening} or bojack or
556:  No.
Interviewer:  Played out of school?
556:  We just called it playing hooky is all we called it.
Interviewer:  Oh. If you got sick, would they uh out for two or three weeks, would you say you had to lay out of school?
556:  You had to lay out. Take it, you had to have a good excuse.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  See that scar there? When I was in about the fourth or fifth grade, my horse kicked me there and crushed my whole jaw and I was out of school I guess for three or more three months.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  So I just missed it.
Interviewer:  How was the uh how did they teach you about the war? Uh, did they call it the war between the states all the time or?
556:  Well, they tried to get away with that term Civil War because Civil War denotes uh uprising among people of the same nation, see? The Confederacy was a duly organized and functioning nation before the first shot was ever fired. Organized down to the last detail. And it was a separate nation altogether, which they had the right to do. When the states entered the union, they entered with the understanding that if they didn't see {NW} they could withdraw. {NW} Excuse me. Huh? {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh, again some of the expressions that you recall um did you call a teacher uh uh if she's a woman, what did you call her?
556:  Miss.
Interviewer:  Uh, miss uh. Or if you didn't address her by her name, she would be known as a school
556:  School mom.
Interviewer:  School mom? And uh if she would refer to you as her
556:  Scholars.
Interviewer:  Scholars? Uh-huh.
556:  And Holler well out in the country, she'd when time came to holler, he'd hit on the wall or hit some holler books, books, books! That'd mean get in.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Books.
Interviewer:  Get the books.
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And uh
556:  Time for books.
Interviewer:  The uh {NS} The kinds of things that uh that girls might become uh for example if a girl came into town to work to for lawyer or a a merchant as a what would she be known as his secretary or a
556:  #1 Well, uh stenographers they called 'em. #
Interviewer:  #2 Stenographers. #
556:  If if she worked in there as a typist, they were all stenographers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
556:  And they weren't called secretaries until way later. They were stenographers. Or saleslady. #1 They worked in a store, she was a saleslady. If she works at all, she's a stenographer. #
Interviewer:  #2 Saleslady. # Mm-hmm. And if uh uh this is an interesting question. {NW} If uh you had hospitals for one thing, did you have a hospital in Macon? Uh. Uhh.
556:  Didn't. Back in those days, you had to either go to Memphis or Mobile to a hospital.
Interviewer:  Go that far?
556:  {D: Amarillo.}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Mostly went they went to Memphis for that {X} you know. When they did start, they wanted to know what an append a attack of appendicitis was.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Until they finally found out and then you had to rush off on a train to Memphis.
Interviewer:  #1 I see. Uh, what was the attitude toward um women that became nurses? Uh. #
556:  #2 Alright. # It was alright.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh, there was no stigma attached to #
556:  #2 Not, not no whatsoever. # In fact, they were encouraged to become nurses.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. {NW}
556:  Uh. Florence Nightingale started that, you know?
Interviewer:  Oh, made it respectable. Uh.
556:  Yeah. She made it respectable. Or possibly before that time, it wasn't so respectable, but she made it respectable.
Interviewer:  That's great. And uh {NW} regarding these this school term and the school day, uh how would you after vacation, they'd say uh when does school
556:  School was out.
Interviewer:  #1 School was out? Uh-huh and when uh when did it #
556:  #2 Yeah, school was # Took up.
Interviewer:  Took up? Uh-huh. And the day uh School was out at the end of the day. Or what how did they say that?
556:  Uh.
Interviewer:  The end of the term. It was out and
556:  End of each day?
Interviewer:  Yes.
556:  Well it I know a kid asked me one morning He was late for school. He asked if school turned in yet. {X} School turned in yet? I said, yeah, it's turned in.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Turned out. It turned out at three o'clock and turned in at eight.
Interviewer:  I see. I see. Uh.
556:  In fact, that expression's used in some poem. I see I read a poem by who was it? Yeah right about the school turning a school turn out. That term must've been used a hundred years ago. In this particular poem, I forget {X} Would hear a {X} to have me some school turn out.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And {NW} asking some question about homemade toys over there. Do you remember the uh the plank that went around?
556:  Oh yeah. We had one our backyard.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Had a big uh. A big block of wood. Uh. It must've been about a twelve by twelve. It had a iron spike driven right in the middle and the big hole in this It would the plank they used on it was about a two by twelve or fourteen feet and get a kid on each side his feet could touch the ground and you could really spin on it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And we had that and we also had a ferris wheel. Two big four by fours were put up by like the ceiling, an iron bar was put through that, and then it was a two by sixes came down with a swing on each end of it. Over and over.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  The uh the seat would also had an iron bar through it, and it was held to hold its position as it went over, see? And we had more fun with that thing.
Interviewer:  I see. What did you call the thing that went around? Uh, did you call it a flying jenny, too or?
556:  It was a imitation of flying jenny, yeah.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But they call it a flying jenny. And then there's the ferris wheel over there. My mother figured that thing out and got it carved to the right. The backyard, and we had more half the kids in town came around to ride on that ferris wheel.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  Had lots of fun. You had to get two balanced just right. The same weight, you see? You got one too heavy on one end, and the other would fly up in the air, you see?
Interviewer:  {NW}
556:  Couldn't get down.
Interviewer:  #1 So #
556:  #2 You had to get two about the same weight. #
Interviewer:  Sounds wonderful. You ever have anything that was a limbered board that would be fixed on either end and uh you'd jump in the middle and it would come up and {X} board?
556:  No.
Interviewer:  Uh. And the other thing we mentioned over there was the uh
556:  #1 See-saw. Yeah, we had see-saws. Still but this #
Interviewer:  #2 See-saw? #
556:  When we when we built this ferris wheel, the see-saws went out. People When they used that ferris wheel, they wouldn't use a see-saw.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Another thing homemade toy they used to make was they call we called it a jumping jack. Made out of wood with loose legs and you could tap him on the head and he'd dance. Or either sit on a board, you know? And hit this board. #1 Maybe you've seen the things. A figure made with loose legs. #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah. # Work it sometime and squeeze him.
556:  And you could stretch a string and hit him on the head, and that thing could really Our niggers used to make 'em all the time.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
556:  Really dance.
Interviewer:  And uh the thing that you would put on the uh limb of the tree and suspend it with ropes?
556:  Swings. Oh boy.
Interviewer:  #1 People ever say swing swang? #
556:  #2 We'd swing. Swing. #
Interviewer:  Say always. Swing.
556:  Swung.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And uh something that you blow through?
556:  Whistles.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh. #
556:  #2 We used to make flutes out of cane. # Take a hot iron, take a jar of cane used to be {X} canes in the swamps. {D: And pack those things and rode enormous heights.} And we'd take a a jar of that cane. Leave this jar there and then cut this one off and take a hot iron and drill a hole up here and six little holes down here. And you could really make music on those things.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Uh. The niggers er all of 'em had a flute. And they used to have a tune they played on it called Lost John. Ha. I seen a nigger come out wrote a minute out at midnight and walking down the road playing Lost John.
Interviewer:  Lost John.
556:  Oh, they could really play.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  And it you burned a hole in it with a red hot iron. Get you a red hot small piece of iron and burn a hole in it.
Interviewer:  I'm gonna test this thing out. I see. {NS}
556:  You know what she told about the dolls?
Interviewer:  Yes.
556:  They were rag dolls, and and they would use different colors thread for the hair. Red hair, yellow hair, and they'd paint the faces on.
Interviewer:  Um.
556:  And then dress 'em.
Interviewer:  She referred to uh her toys as uh as playthings.
556:  #1 Yeah, playthings. #
Interviewer:  #2 Do you ever hear play pretty? #
556:  Play pretties. They niggers all called 'em play pretties.
Interviewer:  #1 I don't see why a white term. #
556:  #2 They # They called 'em play pretties. {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Play pretties. But there they used to call 'em play pretties.
Interviewer:  #1 The uh musical instruments uh that that in addition to the flute {NW} that you'd play through uh by moving it back and forth. #
556:  #2 Yeah, harp. #
Interviewer:  Or the one that uh you pluck.
556:  That was a Jew's harp.
Interviewer:  Jew's harp. Uh-huh.
556:  Well, we used to have some experts on that Jew's harp. Oh boy. Especially among the niggers. They could really play that thing. We had one nigger he could take a A mouth on a Jew harp or what they call a French harp And he had a lot of pieces. It took him sometimes fifteen or twenty minutes. He had one piece called the uh what is the name of that train leaving Mobile and went to St. Louis? And that man that nigger could play that thing just like a train running. He could imitate sound. And he could start that train off puff puff and he'd pick up and whistle. It was really something. He'd come to town here and he'd for thirty cents, he'd play each on of his piece. If you gave him thirty cents, he'd play it. He had another one he called one uh The Slave Had Escaped and the Blood Hounds Were After Him. And uh and he could put that thing on, those dogs baying, and by the way, a bloodhound is a very inoffensive animal. Don't let anybody tell you the bloodhound tears people up. They're the gentlest animals in the world. And they when they catch you, they don't do a thing but lie down and lick you.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  A a bloodhound is the most inoffensive animal on earth. The gentlest animals. They just have that ability and that knack of following scents. But when they catch you, they don't do anything.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  If you take some of these books they have you think they'd tear you up course they don't do it. #1 They're perfectly gentle. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Uh-huh.
556:  And even-tempered. They're not vicious at all. The finest bloodhounds are the most I guess the most even-tempered dogs you ever saw because they're not vicious at all. #1 And this #
Interviewer:  #2 It uh it couldn't be high-spirited, or they wouldn't be so the dog ended up the trail on your scent. #
556:  Well, he would put on this piece. This slave had escaped and it would trail him with bloodhounds, and his old mother would be crying and whooping. The dogs are barking, and the nigger running. The dumbest thing you ever heard. You it must've taken him about twenty minutes to play that piece, but he got thirty cents for it.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  #1 Thirty cents. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # What we'd do for a tape recording of that.
556:  Oh boy, I've often wondered. That and that train that he he could put on that train to start off puff puff puff puff and it was finally get to going fast, you know?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And he'd trot far all the way St. Louis. I'd {NW} under this shed in St. Louis, he'd say. And whistle you can get a whistle for the cross and you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The uh that was a uh uh GM and O train
556:  #1 Yeah, from Mobile to St. Louis. That #
Interviewer:  #2 Mobile to #
556:  train was called uh I believe he called it the cannon ball.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  This was a fast train cause it only stopped at certain stops.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  The cannon ball.
Interviewer:  #1 By the way, did they rebel? Was it a a few trains that was that uh #
556:  #2 Yeah. # And Mobile to St. Louis.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  And then on to Chicago. They finally went all the way to Chicago. By the way, I rode a cab. {D: And that train was put on like it was ride a cab to Mobile and back.} Apparently it's an experience.
Interviewer:  Yes, it certainly would be.
556:  I blew the whistle. {X} Quite a day.
Interviewer:  Well, the uh southerner way has five working steam locomotives.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Including one large one running excursions in Kentucky, in particular, and then Virginia this summer.
556:  It's coming into {X} sometime this summer. One of those railroad buffs asked me not long ago if I'd come down ride to Mobile with 'em. I'm looking forward to it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Um. When you went uh fishing I don't think we talked about uh did you use boats?
556:  #1 Oh yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 Or? # And what did you call the boats? Were they
556:  Skiffs.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And the the bait for the fish uh
556:  Well, we we used crickets and roaches mostly.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  My father was a great fisherman, and we grew up on the lake and the buggy. He was a travel when he was a traveling salesman, I had to paddle the boat, and that's where I got my distaste for fishing. I had to sit in that boat all day and paddle that boat while he would catch the fish. We we'd leave here on Friday. Take along a skillet like that went out there maybe two or three of 'em. Sack of meals and salt and lard and coffee. And we'd go up there and fish all day and catch strange fish about that long. We'd come back to the campsite and clean those fish and he started cooking 'em. Make a big {NS} whole cake of bread and a big pot of coffee and those fish and boy were I seem him eat twenty of 'em.
Interviewer:  You use any kind of worms? Or what I'm wondering is
556:  #1 Well, we did use red worms. We used those, but crickets #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Would they be the uh small
556:  #1 The red one was the small ones. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Uh-huh.
556:  These other old worms are earthworms. They were the big ones. The red worms were much better if you could get 'em. But it you know it was hard to get 'em. They were hard to find. But we used mostly crickets because they were so plentiful. Crickets and roaches.
Interviewer:  #1 How bout uh little fish uh what are they called? #
556:  #2 Yeah. Minnows? #
Interviewer:  Yes.
556:  Yeah. We used minnows. That was for trout fishing. But he he loved to fish for brim. He'd rather fish for brim than anything cause you'd catch so many more of 'em. You could just you could find a brim bed and you could catch twenty or thirty right quick.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  While they were nesting, you know, they what do you call it when they
Interviewer:  School?
556:  No.
Interviewer:  New school of fish.
556:  Fawn spawning.
Interviewer:  #1 Spawn. Mm-hmm. #
556:  #2 When it was spawning. # That's the time to catch 'em. Or could you catch 'em.
Interviewer:  Uh, what do they how do they what word do they use to get the boat into the water? Do they use the word launch or?
556:  Well, they've already launched. They're already in the water. Tied up to a tree or something. The rowboats would be tied with a chain around a tree.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  They're already course you could when you'd put 'em in you you'd launch them, but they were there {NW} already in the water. The boats were already there.
Interviewer:  And did you play with horseshoes or?
556:  Oh yeah. We had horseshoes.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  Horseshoes and washers.
Interviewer:  Did you ever head anybody call a horseshoe game quates or quoits?
556:  No. No, not that we just
Interviewer:  Quates.
556:  Yeah, that that is a game alright but they never referred to it by that name. Another thing used to play is cut holes and use these big washers about that long and pitch 'em to the holes. Had three holes and then pitched the washer, these big washers
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
556:  #2 That was quite a game. #
Interviewer:  What uh Uh what which of these terms did you say is a game that you that you know about? Uh. Did did you say kites or quoits or
556:  #1 Kates? #
Interviewer:  #2 No. #
556:  We didn't call it either one of those. Cause it was horseshoes.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And in playing tag, what was uh what was safe? What did you call the place that was safe?
556:  Uh bay home base I guess.
Interviewer:  Base?
556:  And uh and whoever was it {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  It If somebody was it
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh if you played hide and seek
556:  Home free.
Interviewer:  Home free. And uh what would you do if you got behind a bush and hid. Say, how did you get down?
556:  What we would do we all boys all wore hats in those days. We'd get down a bush and swap hats.
Interviewer:  {NW}
556:  Sticks and hide it just the the hat I aw you for one, two, three for so-and-so, and you raise it up and it wasn't that at all. He was home free, see?
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  We swap hats and fooled it yeah up here, you know.
Interviewer:  #1 I see. #
556:  #2 We used to do that all the time and swap hats with # {D: somebody say have a brown hat and somebody black hat and you swap hats with him and poke just the hat out around the corner, right around a bush.} Call one, two, three for so-and-so. Mm-mm, you're wrong. I'm home free. {NW}
Interviewer:  And and how did you describe your act of getting the behind the bush? Getting down uh the thing I'm looking for there is is scrooch down, scrunch down, hunker down, squat down
556:  We'd call it squatting.
Interviewer:  #1 Squatting? Uh. #
556:  #2 We'd squat. We'd squat. #
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. While we think of this, did you, do you the act of uh men getting down in this part of, you know, down like this at uh not kneeling in this act, to be specific.
556:  That was squatting.
Interviewer:  #1 That's squatting. You never used the word hunker? #
556:  #2 Yeah, that's # No. Well, I have heard the term term used hunker down.
Interviewer:  Hunker down?
556:  Hunker down. I've heard that term, but that was used occasionally. Yeah.
Interviewer:  Mm-mm.
556:  Hunker down.
Interviewer:  What if you saw a man do that today and that that'd be squatting down?
556:  That'd be squatting.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh if a child went to the teacher with some stories about another child, that child would be known as
556:  He was a tattletale.
Interviewer:  Tattletale?
556:  Yes sir. Tattletale tit, your tongue shall be split.
Interviewer:  #1 Huh. I see. #
556:  #2 {NW} # Yeah, tattletale tit's your tongue. That's what we'd holler at him and he {X} Tattletale tit, your tongue will be split.
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah. #
556:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  And uh the act of turning on the grass over and over.
556:  Somersets.
Interviewer:  And uh.
556:  Somersault.
Interviewer:  How bout uh Oh, it's going swimming Uh what uh how what word did you use for swim? I swim, I swam, I swum.
556:  Swum.
Interviewer:  I swum?
556:  Yes. Swum across the river.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And how bout dive? What
556:  Dove.
Interviewer:  Dove?
556:  You dove in.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And I heard one fellow say he div in.
556:  #1 {NW} This this little boy #
Interviewer:  #2 Div in. Well I I'm interested in #
556:  The high water got up around his house down here. He throw one right out I said how was the high water. He said man I could've div in off the back porch.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
556:  #2 {NW} Could've div in. # An illiterate, uneducated verb
Interviewer:  As a matter of fact, uh those verb forms go back
556:  Uh, they do.
Interviewer:  Uh seventeenth century. Uh they're I think what's happened is uh people simply use them and they've been handed down and they just haven't been changed. Uh corrected
556:  Well that by the time could've div in the river off his back porch. {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Yeah, div in. Well that's a good word up in the up in the Blue Ridge Mountains. Div
Interviewer:  Sure.
556:  And and there's
Interviewer:  Uh, you can trace it by rhyme schemes. Uh to England and they they were um perfect
556:  And there's no such word up there as dev as deev.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  It's uh deev. You take the famous Texan Texas scout Walker Mexican independence was Deef Smith.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  By the way, he's written up to this much magazine. Deef Smith.
Interviewer:  Yeah uh.
556:  And he wasn't Deaf Smith. It was Deef Smith.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Same as scout. Spy.
Interviewer:  Guess it's odd how uh people will preserve architecture and be really very proud of old forms, you know. But uh they I guess a schoolteacher's uh twang and old forms in language uh tend to be pushed out.
556:  #1 Well, they got so engrossed with this speaking. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
556:  Good English, they pushed all those old words out of the language entirely.
Interviewer:  Right. Uh.
556:  #1 Like I was telling you #
Interviewer:  #2 All all over the country. It's #
556:  It was like I was telling you about the boy the He's seeing him and taking after him. Well, that teacher was horrified. Oh boy, did she light him up. And of course he knew better. He was just uh meanness.
Interviewer:  When it came time to uh meet girls, uh what was the process known as if you became interested in a girl somebody would say well, well I hear he's he's what uh?
556:  Make he'd either shining up to her.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Or courting.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Uh, what else did they use? I know shining up, they used that term. Uh. Now, what else?
Interviewer:  What would she be known as? Uh, his
556:  Well, it's we used the same word then as steady as they use now. They were going steady. Use the word steady.
Interviewer:  And uh she would be his girlfriend or sweetheart or?
556:  Yeah, well, yeah.
Interviewer:  I wonder what she what he would be to her. How would you refer to him?
556:  I've often called heard 'em say He's her boy Friday.
Interviewer:  #1 I see. #
556:  #2 {NW} I've heard that one. Her boy Friday. #
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Robinson Crusoe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  He her boy Friday.
Interviewer:  Would you think they use uh girlfriend or boyfriend or not so much?
556:  We never use back when I was we didn't use that expression girlfriend and boyfriend. That came on later, I suppose. Because we didn't we didn't use that word those words.
Interviewer:  So uh he would uh be her steady, and she might be uh
556:  There's a there's a and his girl we were just refer to it as his girl But that we didn't say girlfriend and boyfriend. That's I don't know. We just didn't. I don't know why.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. How about uh words for kissing? You have any joking words for
556:  No. I don't remember any.
Interviewer:  And going to dances uh what do you remember about them? Were they held in homes or?
556:  Yeah. All different places. Home uh had a hall down here they used to have 'em in. Over the bank there was a big vacant hall up there they used to have their dances in that hall. Always had a nigger orchestra. With a bull fiddle and a mandolin and a couple of guitars and possibly a banjo. And always a fiddle. A fiddle player generally carried the solo part and the rest of 'em just joined in.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But these wandering colored orchestras used to come through here all the time. They'd get out on the street and get together and start playing. Some guy would jump up always down and dance for that night cause we had no local musicians. That is, no local band. But these wandering nigger orchestras. They just Every so often they'd come through and drop off a train come with always with a big bull fiddle on his back. They'd get on the street and start playing. Of course, the crowd would congregate and the leader of the band would say how bout a dance tonight? We'd like to play for you. How much? Oh, well we'll just take up a collection. Whatever we get will be alright {D: which is what I said}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And they would play and take up a collection. Make a few dollars and move onto the next town.
Interviewer:  The next town. That's uh. where again that's one regrets the lack of a tape recorder. It'd be great to record those things.
556:  Oh boy.
Interviewer:  Um. How about uh if you ask a girl to a well if you met her at the dance and asked to take her home, how would you say that uh? May I?
556:  How bout seeing you home after the dance?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Seeing you home.
Interviewer:  I'll see you home.
556:  Yeah, not take you, see you home.
Interviewer:  Would you uh ever say carry? You ever carry?
556:  Quite often. Let me carry you home. Uh especially if you had a buggy and a good spanking horse.
Interviewer:  #1 I see. #
556:  #2 It was # carry if you could get her in the buggy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  And.
556:  By the way, buggies if you didn't have a buggy, you could rent one for fifty cents an hour.
Interviewer:  Fifty cents?
556:  Spanking horse.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Had to be uh very careful, though to watch the time because right over to the second hour, it would cost you another fifty cents. {NW} Delivery see we had three big delivery stables staying with us at the time and every Sunday afternoon the boys would wrap nice red-wheeled buggy and a high-stepping horse and take your girl out for a ride.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But as I say, you gotta watch your time. You didn't have a fifty cents, you better watch it. Get back, they'd charge you a dollar.
Interviewer:  And if uh you proposed {NW} and she said no, people would say I hear she
556:  Turned him down.
Interviewer:  Um but if you got uh uh if she said yes, then you would get what?
556:  {NW} She'd took him up.
Interviewer:  Take him up the?
556:  Took him.
Interviewer:  Uh, what words do you remember for uh married uh say hitched?
556:  Got hitched.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Uh. Any uh dignified term uh what would you say #1 Say the preacher's #
556:  #2 Oh, they became engaged first. # And then they were united in marriage.
Interviewer:  Oh, I see.
556:  They became engaged.
Interviewer:  And uh
556:  A long engagement was quite the rule back then. That was a
Interviewer:  In the wedding, uh who would stand up with you? Uh.
556:  Well, uh the wedding party. You would select the best man and the girl would select a ring bearer and a maid of honor or matron of honor. Plus the ushers. The whole crowd was down there.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of waiters or wait men or groomsmen?
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Now,
556:  Groomsmen.
Interviewer:  Groomsmen.
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Alright. Were they is that synonymous with uh best man?
556:  Yeah, any man any who of them who the the groom selected was groomsmen. Whoever he selected uh ushers uh. Best man. I hope not.
Interviewer:  They were all groomsmen?
556:  They were the groomsmen.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And they up here the women they uh that the wife would select the girl would select would be.
556:  She would select the girls.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did you uh recall any noisy celebrations after uh after a wedding?
556:  Well, of course they'd have a reception somewhere after the wedding. And sometimes they probably got a little out of hand. Maybe they have especially if they had champagne.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  If I ever got down to watch. Generally were very dignified affairs, though.
Interviewer:  Would that be true of country weddings, as well? Uh.
556:  Yeah, they they kept 'em under control pretty well at our. I only went to but a few, but uh They were pretty dignified affairs it depending on whose home they were in. If they were in some hard-boiled father of the bride's home, they they were pretty pretty dignified. But of course, I guess the especially as I say if they had a can of champagne. Of course, some of the boys would slip have a flask in their hip pocket. But they it didn't get out of hand. Everyone
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of a shivaree or a serenade?
556:  Shivaree.
Interviewer:  Shivaree.
556:  Shivaree.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Oh yeah. They had shivarees.
Interviewer:  Uh now what was on at a shivaree?
556:  Well, generally some Uh uh. Quartet would go around singing over town and maybe have a mandolin, a banjo, or so. They'd go to a house. Generally it wasn't even looking for 'em. They'd drop in, you know, and start the music. Just a little party just
Interviewer:  How rowdy uh
556:  #1 Oh #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
556:  Nothing rowdy. Call 'em another name for 'em was storm parties.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
556:  It wasn't there wasn't supposed to know they were coming. But generally they did. They called 'em storm parties. And the would storm 'em with the quartet and the orchestra or whatever musical instruments they had, and And
Interviewer:  That's interesting, and in some sections they got to be very rowdy.
556:  #1 Well #
Interviewer:  #2 All kinds of #
556:  #1 As I say, it all depended altogether on whose house it was. And had you come in my father's house started a thing this rowdy #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
556:  Would've got thrown head over heels of the house.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  I had a good-looking sister and they {NW} They were very decorous around there because he was a big double-jointed man and they I guess they dared not get rowdy with him because they didn't know what'd happened to 'em. When they got thrown out on the air.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. When uh the wife became pregnant, what was the word that they'd
556:  #1 Oh. #
Interviewer:  #2 use {NS} #
556:  Boy, she never showed her face out of the door for months.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. How would they re how would people refer
556:  #1 They'd tell they'd tell you she's not going out. #
Interviewer:  #2 to her? I hear that she's # She's not going out?
556:  They use that word. She's not, you know, she's not going out.
Interviewer:  #1 She's not #
556:  #2 That meant she's pregnant, see? Yeah. Not going out. # That that meant she was pregnant.
Interviewer:  And uh.
556:  And uh and as most of 'em said in a family way.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  There in a family way course the that uh the class would say she's not going out, but others would say she's in a family way.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Especially the colors they use out on the they still use it the
Interviewer:  And if uh she had a an older woman attend to her while she's
556:  Well, they had midwives or and course after after a number of years of midwives they got they were put under the jurisdiction of the state health department. They they uh were very strict on it. They had meetings and they uh. They informed them what to do, you know. All kinds of things. They didn't some registered nurse would talk to them and They have a license.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And it was just hit or miss back for years, but uh they formally they got 'em into uh groups and would uh some rested nurse, some state nurse would talk to 'em, and unless they they uh they weren't gonna let ya unless you were doing and you were gonna do it properly.
Interviewer:  Did they every use the word granny?
556:  Oh yeah. Yeah. Granny. Granny woman.
Interviewer:  Granny woman?
556:  Yeah, she's granny woman. That was used.
Interviewer:  #1 And on both plates in {X} #
556:  #2 Yeah, that was uninstructed midwifes. Right before they some kind of regulation on 'em. Yeah, they were granny women. #
Interviewer:  {D: And did they uh did a woman uh fetch a grace rear?} What the children
556:  As I heard it a fellow say once he was jerked up. {NW} He wasn't raised; he was jerked up.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  And they had They had different classes of babies. They had lap babies, knee babies, yard babies, dirt babies.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  Yard babies he'd looking around the yard, you know. Lap babies, you couldn't put him down and the floor baby would crawl around the floor. Yard baby go out in the yard.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Uh did you remember people uh calling their children kids?
556:  Oh chaps.
Interviewer:  #1 Chaps. #
556:  #2 Kids, yep. # They still use that word chap down here in the country right now. I heard a fellow say the other day he got an Indian family living on his place And said they didn't have a heating house. Says yes, sweetheart, what about your chaps? Don't they get cold?
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
556:  #2 Being children. Called them chaps. #
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh the word pacile?
556:  Pacile. That means a whole lot. Pacile of a thing. That means a heap of 'em. Pacile.
Interviewer:  You would name a child what uh after for or if a child was named for a he had the same name as his father, you say you named the child
556:  After his daddy. He'd be a junior.
Interviewer:  And uh. The child is illegitimate, what was a polite word
556:  He's a woods colt.
Interviewer:  Woods colt. Uh-huh.
556:  He's a woods colt. Uh oh boy.
Interviewer:  And uh the uh child without parents? With both parents dead.
556:  Well, course I guess I don't know if I have a name except for orphan. Orphan, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  All that I know about that one.
Interviewer:  And did uh the court appoint someone to look after
556:  Well unless unless yeah well unless he was formally adopted. Of course a lot of well I tell you the way the niggers they just give their children away. Did you know my grandmother and grandfather owned the Harvey House there? This this woman had a whole flock of she did my grandfather, too. Two children. Just take care of them. She couldn't take care of them and course they just became a little boy and girl. Brothers and sisters. She just gave 'em to 'em. Says I can't take care of all these children. And they lived with 'em till they were grown.
Interviewer:  Mm. Mm. They um
556:  They trained 'em, you know, to do various things. They train the girl to be a good cook and a laundress and the boy the grandfather took him and he got to go he was one of the best farmhands on the place. Expert at plowing and handling horses and mules. Riding. He was a wonderful rider.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  He and I one night I thought it was about the smartest thing in the world. So one night we had a tent and we went over and camped out one night way out in the back of the pasture. A beautiful moonlight night and He woke up about midnight and called me said let's take a ride. I said what we gonna ride on? There's plenty of horses out there in the field. I said what we haven't got a bridle. Said we don't need a bridle saddle, so I got a rope. We went out and caught two of those horses and tied the shorter rope around their lower jaw. {NW} I'll never forget what a fool thing we did. We got on those horses, and we galloped across the fields.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Went by a house, and I remember a clothes line got caught and flipped me off the horse. But of all fool things, me and that nigger would jump and got those two horses and we just went flying. Bare back. Nothing but a rope. You can keep a control of a horse with just a rope. Sort of loop around its lower jaw. Just a short rope.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Fool thing we did.
Interviewer:  Um. To put a baby in something {NW} to uh take it out on something on wheels, what was that called and what was the act uh
556:  Well, of course there were go carts and baby carriages and And there were perambulator. We never heard of that one.
Interviewer:  What about later?
556:  They were called go carts. Now how they got that name, I don't know.
Interviewer:  What did uh you do? Put the baby in the baby carriage and what would you do? Take him out?
556:  Take him out of
Interviewer:  Uh. You wheel a baby or ride rolling?
556:  We'd take him out yeah you could wheel him around the block or uh round the road.
Interviewer:  You never heard anyone say roll a baby?
556:  Yeah. I did. They rolled him, wheeled him. Yeah, I've heard that used.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. {NS} And different parts of the body uh here this part. Any distinctive name?
556:  We used to call it the goozle.
Interviewer:  #1 Oh. #
556:  #2 {NW} # You ever hear that word?
Interviewer:  Uh. I'm not sure what it means. I have heard it, but I'm not sure.
556:  Adam's apple.
Interviewer:  It is the Adam's apple.
556:  Yeah, the same as Adam's apple.
Interviewer:  I see, and this part uh above the
556:  Well, you know when they said forehead, we thought they were kinda didn't know what they're talking about. Forehead, you know. A lot of older people called it forehead. And I guess they still do.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  I"ll bet it's used right now. Forehead. That's a good word.
Interviewer:  Other than brow.
556:  Yeah, brow or forehead. I guess that's a good word. Forehead. It is the front of your head.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. This part of a man
556:  That was a chest. {NW}
Interviewer:  And uh the part that the the teeth go down in.
556:  That's the jawbone.
Interviewer:  And and the flesh above the bone.
556:  Oh when it hung down I've heard it called a waddles. #1 {NS} Like on a turkey {NS} #
Interviewer:  #2 I see. # And the on a man is this pink flesh
556:  #1 Uh gums. #
Interviewer:  #2 Cheek, tooth. # Uh-huh.
556:  And they always said if a blue-gummed nigger bites you, he'll kill you. {NW} We got blue-gummed nigger. You know, if you if you ever read uh William what's that book that guy wrote about William William didn't tell. They got a cook called aunt blue-gum tempy. {NW} Cook was named blue-gum tempy cause he had blue gums. Named blue-gum tempy. If a blue-gummed nigger ever bites you for they'll kill you. {NW} And I think they're right to believe that.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  The blue-gum tempy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. This part uh
556:  That's the palm of your hand.
Interviewer:  And uh a boy would raise one
556:  That's his fist.
Interviewer:  And two
556:  Hmm?
Interviewer:  And he'd raise one fist or two
556:  Well well that was just that's just your fist.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Think did you ever hear uh anyone say two fistus?
556:  #1 Oh yeah. Theys they'd alway refer to a powerful #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
556:  Powerful man would alway call he's a two-fisted man. He was a powerful big strap. Never heard it called something of a little fellow. It was always a big man.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Them two-fisted fellow.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh this part uh where you don't wanna get kicked?
556:  That's your shin bone.
Interviewer:  Shin. Would you ever hear anyone say that that was your uh shank?
556:  Oh yeah. Yeah, that was
Interviewer:  Is that the shank?
556:  Very common expression. The shank.
Interviewer:  From the
556:  I always thought the shank meant the back back of your leg.
Interviewer:  Between the knee and
556:  Yeah, right between the knee and the ankle.
Interviewer:  I see, and uh How about the the entire leg for uh was there a blank name for that?
556:  Hmm. I heard 'em referred to as your pins.
Interviewer:  Your pins?
556:  Underpinning.
Interviewer:  Would uh would you remember anyone saying limb for that as a more delicate term?
556:  Well, maybe the educated ladies said it, but we never used the word limb.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  If I'd have said it, I right right right
Interviewer:  There was no embarrassment, but uh
556:  #1 No, you're leg. #
Interviewer:  #2 Talk uh # Could either man or woman uh
556:  No, not that I that I ever heard of.
Interviewer:  And if uh someone been well and suddenly uh became ill, you say I heard that she suddenly what sick? #1 {NW} #
556:  #2 Well, yeah. #
Interviewer:  Suddenly uh took sick or was took sick.
556:  Well, the illiterate ones say taken sick. Taken sick or in fact, the niggers still say that use that word taken sick.
Interviewer:  Mm. #1 Taken down? #
556:  #2 Or taken down. They use the words taken down. He's taken down. He's tooken # He's took down with pneumonia or took down with smallpox, as the case may be.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  Down with something. They always use that expression. He's down with it.
Interviewer:  Do you uh remember some old uh responses to the familiar question how are you?
556:  Oh gosh.
Interviewer:  Uh uh any interesting uh
556:  {NW} One one expression used to use they'd say I heard my grandfather use it. How you feeling, doctor? He said I'm on a mighty low limb. They used that expression. I'm roosting on a mighty low limb today.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  #1 That meant he was kinda down. Roosting on a mighty low limb. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} That's a wonderful expression. Uh-huh. # Uh, anybody say middling?
556:  Oh, I just middling. Middling fair. You know, you get grade cotton. You know, the different grades of cotton. And middling cotton is uh just average.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  #1 And you say I'm just middling and that meant you were just average, see? #
Interviewer:  #2 Just average. # I see.
556:  Like the graded cotton, middling cotton is just uh probably the average cotton.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Oh, I'm middling he'd say. Oh, I'm middling fair or Pert as a cat bird.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Different expressions like that.
Interviewer:  Uh, I like that uh Mighty low limb.
556:  Yeah, roosting on a mighty low I heard my grandfather say it many times. Oh, I'm roosting on a mighty low limb today.
Interviewer:  I think I'm gonna use that from time to time.
556:  #1 And the word pert. I'm very pert. You very pert today? Oh yeah, I'm pert. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Uh-huh.
556:  Very pert.
Interviewer:  By the way, if a young girl were uh very lively, what would they call her? That'd be pert or?
556:  She would be pert, yes sir.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Very pert.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  That's right.
Interviewer:  That's a tiny squirrel over there.
556:  #1 There's a lot of #
Interviewer:  #2 Baby #
556:  Got a lot of 'em around here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Yeah, she was this was just as pert as she could be.
Interviewer:  And uh if you have a
556:  A other uppity was another one they used. Uppity.
Interviewer:  Now how was that used? Uh.
556:  If anybody got a little high, you know, and kind of lorded over somebody, she's getting mighty uppity.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  She's thinks she somebody. Went off to college and come back now here she's all uppity. Thinks she's smarter than we are. Uppity.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  That was quite a common word back in the old days. Uppity. You never hear it anymore, but I heard that word used a many a time.
Interviewer:  And if you had a deep cut, the uh and it became infected and you had this kind of uh raised up area around it, what would that be called?
556:  Well, I it used to get what they'd call proud flesh in a wound.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  And all we had an old woman out here was a practical nurse, and she was always telling me about proud flesh and I never found out what exactly she was talking about.
Interviewer:  What'd she call it?
556:  Proud flesh she'd say in a wound. I guess that was
Interviewer:  That's good. Was did she happen to be colored?
556:  #1 No, she was white. Old Irish woman. #
Interviewer:  #2 Oh. Uh-huh. # A um colored man said well that's hard fresh.
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Uh he {X} Transposed the R and the L uh.
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  I been wondering if you ever heard
556:  No, I never heard that one.
Interviewer:  {NS} And uh did you use something to paint scratches uh as a child when you were young or
556:  There well what we used mostly was turpentine.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  They had no I that I never heard of iodine. We used tur- eh turpentine was in there you cut yourself with anything, hurt yourself, you put turpentine on it right away.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  I used to I've cut my foot and I've cut my hand And this old same old woman this same old Irish woman would get uh She'd get cobwebs out of the chimney with soot on it and put on it and wrap around it.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
556:  It worked alright, too. It always got well.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  But we uh turpentine was our standard remedy for everything.
Interviewer:  And if a pimple uh got very large and very sore,
556:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  That'd be a
556:  You mean a boil or we called 'em risings.
Interviewer:  Risings.
556:  Rise, that was a rising.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And inside the um Boil Was the core and uh the material in there around the core was would be all
556:  Pus.
Interviewer:  Pus.
556:  Mm-hmm. Yeah, you get your core. I had 'em a many one boil. I got the scar there right now. Had a dirty one right there.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
556:  {X} But you gotta get the core out he would try to
Interviewer:  Uh. And uh in a blister, what would be the material in a blister?
556:  They usually used to some doctors used to blister people. You know that?
Interviewer:  No, I didn't.
556:  Yeah, they blister 'em. Blister blister their chest. Terrible blisters. They used some sort of mustard plasters on 'em.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  Uh, and these mustard plasters would raise a terrific blister. I know I saw a first cousin of mine blistered once with 'em. Golly. I don't know what they thought it would do just like they used to bleed 'em. Fact, that's what killed George Washington. Bled him four times in one day, and all he had was a little cold.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did uh you ever hear that the material inside a blister called uh water or humor?
556:  Or the water is called water blisters. They called 'em water blisters.
Interviewer:  And the old name for arthritis was?
556:  Oh gosh. They didn't know what arthritis was. It was all rheumatism in those days. Any pain you had in the world you had was rheumatism.
Interviewer:  How would people was describe the part of the body where they get rheumatism? Would they say my my
556:  Joints.
Interviewer:  {X}
556:  Or joints. I got rheumatism in my joints. Joints.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. You mentioned the whooping cough. Did uh youngsters have much of that uh very sore throat like going
556:  Well, I had uh a one of my grandfather's other children died of diphtheria.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Yeah, they had diphtheria. One of 'em choked to death on a butter bean. My grandfather had nine children. The first four died before they were twelve years old. Whooping cough, diphtheria, one of 'em choked to death on a butter bean. I've forgotten what the other one had, but
Interviewer:  And how about uh some ailment that would make your skin turn yellow? Uh, the eyes yellow.
556:  Oh, that was yellow jaundice.
Interviewer:  Jaundice? Uh-huh.
556:  Yellow jaundice, yeah.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Yellow jaundice.
Interviewer:  And uh if somebody ate something {NW} didn't agree with him, you'd say, well, he got sick where?
556:  Uh. You know, they they they didn't know what food poison by by the way back in those days, they felt you could get tin poisoning. If you opened the can, you had to get it our right quick, you'd have tin poisoning. Course it's ridiculous now. But my mother used to open a can of salmon. Get it out quick. You'll have tin poison. {NS} She'd have been horrified today if she could see us get a can of salmon hash and put it in the refrigerator and leave it in the can. They had the idea the tin would poison you. Course it didn't. The food
Interviewer:  #1 Hmm. #
556:  #2 spoiled and you had food poisoning. #
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  #1 But they thought it was the tin that caused it. #
Interviewer:  #2 Tin caused it. #
556:  #1 #
Interviewer:  #2 # Mm-hmm.
556:  It's not a tin can at all. It was steel cans, maybe it had a skim of tin on it, but they had the idea that this tin poison was deadly stuff.
Interviewer:  If they got food poisoning, they would get sick.
556:  Oh, they had the belly ache then. Bad.
Interviewer:  Would they get sick on the stomach or to the stomach?
556:  Well, they they they'd say sick at the stomach. Or sicks to some of 'em would say sicks to sick to the stomach.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh
556:  Sick of the stomach.
Interviewer:  If they would bring food up this uh what was a serious word and what was a joking word for that?
556:  Well, the serious word was regurgitate, I suppose. And they would say everything you eat comes back.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  In fact, I was talking to a fellow with that sure do that right now His wife told me the other day she says I just can't make him go see a doctor says everything he eats comes right back. So
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  I guess that meant regurgitate the food.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Um. The uh different uh references to colds uh uh suppose you lost your voice, you'd say he's mighty Um. He lost his voice. How'd he talk?
556:  Yeah, I got that got that way myself once.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Uh. Mm.
Interviewer:  After you lose your voice, what would you call it?
556:  Trying to think.
Interviewer:  {X} Common term is probably hoarse, but uh I was wondering
556:  I know they were hoarse, but hoarseness is not the same thing as losing your voice.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  You got hoarse, your voice got raspy, you know, and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Of course, they used the word hoarse a whole lot. {NS}
Interviewer:  And would he uh catch a cold or took cold or?
556:  You take a cold, yeah. Take a cold. That you
Interviewer:  Then you'd get a something in your chests {NS} Any words for For a cough a cough uh
556:  Well, you have a chest you have a chest cold.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  And a rasping cough.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Well, they used to call it a cough. A rasping cough.
Interviewer:  And if you were throat was so sore, you could hardly take medicine, you say you can hardly
556:  Hardly swallow.
Interviewer:  {X} swallow.
556:  My grandfather used to say He was a doctor he'd say as long as you got a moving pain, don't worry about it. Said as long as it moves, don't worry. Says if it stops, then you got to worry.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  The lower your pain moves, there won't be
Interviewer:  Uh. And what would they give for malaria?
556:  The quinine. Uh he he had saddle bags on his car on his horse, I mean. You know behind the little bottles were stuck in a kit leather case. He sold leather cases and give my If I just knew what came of it. But his {X} Quinine, cast oil, and a tonic he prepared himself. But Everybody had to take a course of calomel. Horrible stuff. But there in the spring yard they had a good course of calomel. Course and for fever, quinine was about all they had.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Me and one of 'em I used to fill the cap stools right. We'd pour we bought the quinine in bulk and would pour it out on a marble slab and take the little cap stools. You seen cap stools. Put 'em in a little round box.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  That was a sovereign remedy for a fever. Any kind of fever. Quinine. We
Interviewer:  That'd break the fever by making you what? Uh Would you say he sweated hard or he sweat hard? Or
556:  Yeah well yeah I would sweat the fever out. Now, we went to see a colored family one day and I'm sure it's time for a fever. And they had him on the bed packed in green peach tree leaves. They had gone out and gathered and it was cover the mattress with these leaves and covered him with leaves. He was such burning fever and by the way, back in those days, they never called a doctor till they were practically dead. So we drove about ten miles over to the place and they had him packed in peach tree leaves, and I'm sure it was {X} But I ask him I said grandpa, what good in Well, he said well It cooled his body off. It might have helped him. That it uh He was hot and burning up and it cooled him off with these leaves.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
556:  Yeah, and he'd give him a good dose of quinine and {NW} it would generally break the fever.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Course a lot of times it didn't.
Interviewer:  Uh, you mentioned uh the negro term pass. Uh, what would be the more general term the white man would use?
556:  Well, they say died.
Interviewer:  He died.
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Even though he'd widowed? I'm sorry, John.
556:  Passed away.
Interviewer:  Passed away.
556:  But the niggers left that away off. They just said he just passed.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  They didn't put the away on it at all.
Interviewer:  And any uh joking or crude terms for dying uh {NW}
556:  Well, yeah. I remember one. They used to say turned up his toes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Still?
556:  Turned up his toes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  I remember that one.
Interviewer:  And what was the box they put them in? Uh.
556:  That was a coffin.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And did they put the coffin in something in the grave or was it just? {X}
556:  Well, it generally well the cheap ones were just a caught and they put it in just in a pine box. It went inside a box, a pine box.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And the top was screwed down on it.
Interviewer:  And uh {NW} someone died, say what is the matter? You say well I don't know what he died.
556:  {NW} Died of or with even.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Or what killed him.
Interviewer:  And uh if his widow wore black, she was showing
556:  She was in mourning. And they always wore black.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  In fact, all white people yeah put on black immediately. Now they they were weren't {D: Indian}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Well, they they didn't some black clothes, get 'em right quick.
Interviewer:  And the ceremony would be called uh
556:  Well, they they used to have a wake, you know. They'd sit up with 'em all night did it before the days of funeral homes. You know, some of the neighbors come and sit up all night with 'em with the dead person. Done do many night.
Interviewer:  Well, was the ceremony ever ever called a burying?
556:  Well, yeah. It was called a burying and and right the day the colored people called preaching the funeral. And it may be a month after the man died. Or three weeks. It don't make any difference. They gonna bury him, you see?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And then they preach his funeral. I talked to a colored friend of mine who went to one out in the country and said I believe he said they had six it was very prominent that they had six or eight preachers out there. And I said well what'd they talk about? He said I don't know. Said I went to sleep before the first one got through and said I don't know what he talked about. He said there's so many and they took so long, said I slept through most of it. Said he went to sleep. And they had six or eight and they all had to get up and talk about him. And he went to sleep. He didn't know nothing about what they said when he woke up he said they were about through about two or three hours later. {NW} That was called preaching the funeral.
Interviewer:  Oh.
556:  And maybe only met him once. See?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  And but they have a big day of preach the funeral.
Interviewer:  And the place where he was buried
556:  #1 That's the graveyard. #
Interviewer:  #2 the old days # Graveyard. Now, a cemetery's pretty much replaced that.
556:  Yeah, a cemetery now sometimes it was called a bone yard.
Interviewer:  Oh, is that right?
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  That would be a kind of joke, wouldn't it?
556:  Yeah, that's yeah that meant it was a graveyard, but I heard it referred to as the bone yard.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Took him to the bone yard.
Interviewer:  Different ways of of commenting on characteristics of people a young man who's very muscular, uh you say well he's
556:  Strapping.
Interviewer:  Strapping?
556:  Yeah, he's a strapping fellow.
Interviewer:  And somebody who worked very hard. Very tired. Say I'm all
556:  Tuckered out.
Interviewer:  And uh somebody who's been ill uh and first time you see him out, you say well he's out, but he looks mighty
556:  Oh yeah. Yeah, what is the word they use that looks mighty Well, they use the word weak or shaky or spindly or different expressions.
Interviewer:  Like peakered do you ever hear
556:  Peakered. Yeah, they use the word peakered if he's pale.
Interviewer:  Uh {NW}
556:  Peakered.
Interviewer:  #1 And if a #
556:  #2 Shaky #
Interviewer:  teenage boy is growing so fast uh
556:  He's feeling his oats.
Interviewer:  I see. And if he's sort of awkward, you'd say he's awfully
556:  #1 Yeah. Bumblefooted. #
Interviewer:  #2 He's awfully what he's what but he'll grow out of it # I'm sorry I
556:  Bumblefooted.
Interviewer:  Uh, bumblefooted?
556:  Yeah, bumblefooted. He's awkward, he falls over everything with his feet.
Interviewer:  And you mentioned the word pert. Uh
556:  Pert.
Interviewer:  #1 If an old person gets around very well, you say for his age, he's mighty #
556:  #2 Yeah. # Yeah, mighty pert. Eh pert.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. It'd be the same thing. Somebody who's uh very likable uh
556:  #1 Well, he's a hail hail fellow well met. #
Interviewer:  #2 What's his position? # But on the other hand, if he's difficult to reason with, he's
556:  Well, I've heard them say he often is a jackass.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh, you ever hear pig-headed? Uh
556:  Oh yeah. Pig-headed. I've heard that plenty. They still use that.
Interviewer:  Mule-headed?
556:  Pig-headed.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Mule-headed. Yeah, they still use pig-headed all the time. Still use that.
Interviewer:  Would they ever call him bunctious?
556:  Yeah, if he got too streperous. Same word as obstreperous.
Interviewer:  #1 It is. Was bunctious is that a bad sort of? #
556:  #2 {X} # #1 Oh, that's not as not at all you say some fellow is just obstreperous or uh bunctious. #
Interviewer:  #2 Is that a {X} characteristic? # Uh-huh.
556:  Same thing.
Interviewer:  And uh if he's pretty short-tempered {NW} either man or woman is very easily hurt, he's gotta better be careful with him because he is awful awfully
556:  Touchy.
Interviewer:  Touchy?
556:  Touchy or got to be handled with kid glove like a fellow told me once this fellow has to be handled with kid gloves. He was touchy.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear touchous?
556:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  {X} Is that the same?
556:  Touchous same as touchy. He's touchy, very touchy. You mustn't say these things to him. He's so touchy, see?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  He'll get offended.
Interviewer:  And if he gets more than offended, then he might get
556:  #1 He get he gets mad then. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # Uh-huh. And you might say to him alright just I was joking just keep
556:  Well, you keep And now they say keep your cool, but we just we had had never heard of that expression and we didn't we just said then keep your shirt on.
Interviewer:  #1 Keep your shirt on. Keep calm. #
556:  #2 Yeah, yeah. # Keep your shirt on. That meant calm down. Keep your shirt on. {NW}
Interviewer:  And if uh if a woman uh didn't keep house very well,
556:  #1 Mm. #
Interviewer:  #2 Or if # the man left money around uh lost it say they're awfully
556:  Well, they were awfully careless. They uh
Interviewer:  Uh what what other word do you use for that?
556:  Of course a bad housekeeper was just about the worst thing they could be uh were bad housekeepers. You didn't keep a good house, didn't keep the beds made up or the dishes washed.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Oh boy. She got talked about.
Interviewer:  I see. The uh do people ever {NW} you were hesitant to say uh hesitant to call anybody or say even somebody else uh he's a fool with that fool Uh what about the word queer? Is that uh
556:  {NW} Well, queer, you know, was two different ways, you know. Now, they the queer the way we speak of a queer, you know what they're talking about. {NW} But back in those days, the if anybody was queer they were just it was peculiar, see? Just a peculiar person.
Interviewer:  How disagreeable a term was that? Uh, were there
556:  #1 It wasn't especially disagreeable. It just meant that they had #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} #
556:  They were different from you.
Interviewer:  Mm.
556:  #1 Anybody that was different from you was considered queer or peculiar. They didn't look a thing like you did or I, that's a queer person. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # I see.
556:  I believe so-and-so and he's uh he believes the opposite, so he he's queer person.
Interviewer:  So it really wasn't a serious
556:  No, it wasn't serious.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
556:  Back in those days.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And uh uh if somebody was anxious, you say well she's always she always seems to be so very 'un- Uh would you say uneasy or Or
556:  Well, like I heard a nigger say once that he tried to write but it was such uneasy business he never couldn't do it.
Interviewer:  Uneasy.
556:  It's uneasy, he said. It was uneasy business. {X}
Interviewer:  In other words, business that uh
556:  Kinda questionable {X}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  Uh he said it was uneasy business. Trying to write, he said.
Interviewer:  I see.
556:  {NW} Uneasy.
Interviewer:  The um the um different parts of the church service um um the uh music, sermon, any recollections about that in the old days? How long would they preach? Was it called a service? I mean
556:  Well, yeah it was called a sermon and the old some of those old preachers would put them on and you know I used to suffer through them when I was a kid and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
556:  So a preacher went on, and I despised him when he got up and said firstly and then I knew there was a secondly coming and a thirdly and and a fourthly. Oh lord. A fellow told me the other day. He said now {D: this you know this Cary College down here} And he spoke at this college. He was he had gone to school at Cary College, took up each one of the letters. C for courage and on down. He took about an hour and a half to get through Cary. Said he walked down the hall and had a fellow on his knees praying. Says son, what you praying for? Said I'm just thanking the lord you didn't go to the University of Southern Mississippi.
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
556:  #2 We would've been here all night. # {NW} C for courage, A for attitude R for righteousness, and each one would take about thirty minutes. Thanking the lord he didn't go to the University of Southern Mississippi. {NW}
Interviewer:  You take care.
556:  Will this will this interfere with that?
Interviewer:  I don't think so. Uh I can I can uh
556:  #1 I can see. We can get a little clip. #
Interviewer:  #2 Clean it up #
556:  #1 #
Interviewer:  #2 #