579:  It's on that card there. It's hard to spell it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm How do you pronounce it? {B} {B} John John {B}
579:  John-O mm-hmm
interviewer:  and your address? {B} and the county?
579:  Warren W-A-R-R-E-N Warren County
interviewer:  and state?
579:  Mississippi, born and reared here.
interviewer:  Right here in Vicksburg? and your age?
579:  Eighty-seven, as we used to say when we were children, going on eighty-eight because in three months, the Lord willing, I'll be eighty-eight.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um tell me about the work you've done.
579:  One year in the Delta Trust and Banking Company
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and fifty-eight years in the Merchants National Bank.
interviewer:  Did you help to start this bank?
579:  No, it was organized in eighteen eighty-six the year I was born.
interviewer:  uh-huh Do you still have a position here?
579:  No, I retired in uh nineteen sixty-four.
interviewer:  uh-huh What position did you hold?
579:  Vice president and trust officer.
interviewer:  And what church do you go to?
579:  First Presbyterian a block up the street incidentally.
interviewer:  And tell me about your education, the names of the schools you went to and,
579:  Unfortunately Vicksburg did not have a high school when I finished the public school. It was about ten grades I should say.
interviewer:  What was the name of the school?
579:  Warren Street School.
interviewer:  uh-huh You went through the tenth grade there?
579:  I finished there but then I did not provide a sufficient uh high school education or public school education to- at a college.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So I went to preparatory schools for two years.
interviewer:  What were the names of those schools?
579:  One was Chamberlain C-H-A-M-B-E-R-L now how did the spell it L-A-I-N
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  hyphen Hunter Academy
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Port Gibson, Mississippi.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Then one year at D-I-X-O-N Dixon Academy.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Covington, Louisiana.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Then two years at Centre C-E-N-T-R-E College. Danville, Kentucky. Old school, eighteen nineteen and that was all.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um You mentioned you had done some traveling.
579:  Yes, I've traveled all over the United States except those two states and uh
interviewer:  Which two states?
579:  Florida and Hawaii. and I went to Europe let's see uh four times and to England only one time.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  to Bermuda one time to Canada mostly the Canadian Rockies five times.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's about it.
interviewer:  That's quite a lot of traveling.
579:  I loved it all too.
interviewer:  How did you get to do so much traveling? {NS}
579:  Well it's because I never married and had a wife and children to support. {NW} That's really at the bottom of it besides which I loved it.
interviewer:  uh-huh um Tell me um you've been pretty active in this community I suppose. What
579:  Oh yes I've been secretary of this, treasurer of that, chairman of this ever since I was about eighteen years old, say about nineteen. No, a little older than that about nineteen-five.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And I've been chairman of the board of trustees at the YMCA or a director for fifty years.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And uh Oh at one time or another I've been on the boards of the Red Cross, the Boy Scouts, what else, let's see, I've been an {X} in in pres- pres- Presbyterian Church for sixty-two years.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  {NW} I've been treasurer of the {D: Senastor Lab for} fifty-six years.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's most of it.
interviewer:  Uh-huh Tell me something about your parents. Where they were your parents where they were born and,
579:  My father came here from South Carolina.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Well, my grandfather did about eighteen fifty-two and well Father was a boy came along with him at the time. Yeah and uh Mother's family were local people lived out in the county her her mother was {B}
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and uh her father came down the river from Mansfield or Manchester, Ohio about nineteen I mean eighteen, eighteen, let's see, eighteen fifty-one. Something like that, don't know exactly.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I often wonder what his uh position, his status was during the Civil War
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  because anybody who lived North of the of the Mason-Dixon line was to us a Yankee.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  but evidently, he was avowedly a supporter of the Confederate cause because I found a document headed {NS} Caught Amnesty and Pardon A-M-N-E-S-T-Y Amnesty and Pardon.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Signed by Andrew Johnson, President of the United States setting forth that he was granted amnesty as a citizen of the Confederate States and uh he was pardoned for it. I often wonder what- how he felt about his his status here
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  because on my mother's side they'd been in around {D: yonder} Warren County for many years.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and I thought maybe he would uh be in uh a delicate position. He couldn't side against the uh Confederacy
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  because he'd been living here some time and he was in love with one of them but anyway he was recorded as a Southerner and as a rebel and he received an amnesty and pardon from the President of the United States.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, Grandfather {B} had lived in Charleston and Aiken, South Carolina for a long time so there wasn't any question about it on which side he belonged.
interviewer:  Was where was your father born, was he born in Charleston?
579:  He was born in Charleston. eighteen forty-nine
interviewer:  mm-hmm Is that where your grandfather was born? Charleston?
579:  I don't know. Somewhere in South Carolina, may have been in Aiken A-I-K-E-N. He was a superintendent of a railroad up there.
interviewer:  Your grandfather was?
579:  Grandfather {B} yes. And evidently his men liked him because when he left they presented him with a picture and cup engraved and also a two foot folding rule- ruler um marked with the inches on one side and meters on the other mounted in gem and silver and engraved to show that it was given to him by the men of the railroad in eighteen fifty-two.
interviewer:  Do you still have that?
579:  Hmm
interviewer:  Do you have that?
579:  I gave that to my nephew in Natchez. He'll be here longer than I will so I gave it to him.
interviewer:  um How much education did your parents have?
579:  There's a little story to that. Mother I guess schools were rather uh uh There were many {X} around here about that time She was born in eighteen fifty-two.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  My mother and her cousin went to a girls' school, they probably called it a seminary in those days, in New Orleans.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and in eighteen seventy-six they were ready to come home. My grandfather- I'm going too fast for you.
interviewer:  No it's okay, go ahead.
579:  was in a sort of wholesale grocery business and he shipped quite a bit of freight by the uh anchor line, that was uh uh the best boats were anchor liners.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And when the girls were ready to come home in June, eighteen seventy-six, that's not right, seventy, seventy-six was the year of the cut off. eighteen seventy. Mother was eighteen. Her cousin I imagine was about the same age, I don't know, but anyway, my father went down to bring them home and he persuaded the Captain of the Robert E. Lee to bring him and the girls home to Vicksburg during the famous race. So they were hustled off with that dorm's tough trunks You know
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and all the way and won the race.
interviewer:  So you think your mother had about a college education. or
579:  I doubt it I think it was a
interviewer:  Preparatory school? education
579:  It was just a girl's school, I don't think it was as high as a college education. Many of them
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 had # just no more than a boarding school education in those days. There weren't too many colleges that were near by. They were in New England and way up in Virginia and what not and travel was difficult in those days.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So not many of them had a college educations as far back as eighteen seventy.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about your father?
579:  Don't know. {NW} They lived in South Carolina and now let me see, eighteen not sure about the year, I think they moved here about eighteen fifty-two.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Your father had at least a high school education though?
579:  Don't know a thing about it. I think he did though.
interviewer:  He could read and write anyway.
579:  Oh certainly yes, held pretty many books.
interviewer:  uh-huh What work did your parents do?
579:  What?
interviewer:  What work did they do?
579:  My father sold eagle cotton gins
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  made at Bridgeport, Massachusetts and parts for them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Also uh {X} {B} on my mother's side had acquired three plantations in what we call the Delta the flat land up in the country North of us here when you get past our hills
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and he looked after those plantations.
interviewer:  Your father did?
579:  Yes.
interviewer:  Three plantations?
579:  Well two a good size one was rather small. There wasn't much overseeing necessary for that it was rented out.
interviewer:  Um What about your mother? Did she ever work outside?
579:  No. To the best of my knowledge she was born in Warren county and I know she never worked.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Never heard of it.
interviewer:  What um tell me some more about your mother's grandparents- your mother's parents. um You said your grandfather came down from Manchester, Ohio.
579:  Manchester, Mansfield, I never have been sure.
interviewer:  uh-huh You figure that's where he was born?
579:  {X}
interviewer:  You figure that's where he was born?
579:  Just presumably, I don't know. We've never been able to find out much about them {B} side of the house.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  He probably came down the river on a a boat that just floated with the current a good many uh people did come down that way some men loaded the boats with merchandise and they would stop at this landing and that and lay over and sell some of that
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and then when they got as far as Natchez which is about eighty-four miles South that was they would dispose of the boat, sell it most likely. and Have you ever heard of the Natchez Trace?
interviewer:  I've heard of it. I'm not sure what it is.
579:  huh?
interviewer:  What is it? I-
579:  A road that was built through the wilderness from Natchez to Nashville. And it wasn't safe to travel on it because a good many brigands who held people up and robbed them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But uh it has become a national road now. One of the prettiest drives in this state paved grass and weeds cut. Just a beautiful drive all the way from Natchez up to uh oh about uh let me see uh Kosciusko, named after the Polish patriot. K-O-S-C-I-U-S-K-O They left the z out of it when they named this one. K-O-S-C-I-U-S-K-O Kosciusko. and it's been further from there Northward to- toward Nashville. Uh the- ther- there wa- there is an old inn that was restored down not very far from Natchez off on one side of the road. Very crude accommodations such a thing as uh you know spring mattresses and running water and uh air conditioning, so forth hadn't been dreamed of.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  there are one or two of those inns two or three of those inns on the way between Nashville and Natchez
interviewer:  mm-hmm um What sort of work did your grandfather do?
579:  My grandfather {B} was in the railroad business, superintendent.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about your mother's father?
579:  He was the one who came down from Ohio.
interviewer:  What sort of work did he do?
579:  He had a uh general merchandise store aimed particularly at furnishing the needs of people on plantations within a reasonable distance of Vicksburg. They had many negro tenants and they had to have all the things they needed clothing and shoes and food and what not.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Of course in the early days, they were slaves. Now I hope the Lord'll forgive people in the South for owning slaves. That was monstrous inhumane, barbarous, I just hope the Lord'll forgive us for owning them my ancestors I mean. That, that was outrageous.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  You know what that makes me think of? Visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations of them that hate me and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments. Sometimes I think that all this negro trouble we have is some of that. Visiting the iniquities. Cause that was a monstrous thing, goodness.
interviewer:  Um How much education do you think your your grandfather um the one that ran, ran the store how much education do you think he had?
579:  I have no idea what education either grandfather had.
interviewer:  uh-uh
579:  Never learned a thing about it.
interviewer:  What about your grandmother? Do you know where she was born or?
579:  On my father's side, She was born somewhere in South Carolina when, I don't know.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Don't know what education she had.
interviewer:  What about on your mother's #1 side? #
579:  #2 On # my mother's side well there were very few educational facilities in existence then because my mother was born in eighteen fifty-two and say go back uh thirty years from that, eighteen twenty-two, or nobody knows,
interviewer:  {NS}
579:  now living.
interviewer:  Do you know where your grandmother was born?
579:  I think in Warren County.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Not certain.
interviewer:  Do you know much about tracing your ancestry back um beyond well several generations? Do you know what, what country they came from or anything like that? Or ha- have they been in the United Sates for long?
579:  No very little. I have a distant cousin who is a member of the faculty of {NS} that college at Williamsburg.
interviewer:  William and- no it's not
579:  Oh, I know it uh. {NW} {NW} {X} On July the fourth I was picked up o- off the floor in my apartment having lost a great deal of blood and I find myself groping for names ever since. I spent three months in the hospital and two months in nursing homes.
interviewer:  Mm
579:  It just did something to me um uh um uh William and Mary! Old, old college. He has some information on my mother's side of the house.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  His name is Warner W-A-R-N-E-R {B}
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now the {B} came from England.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  One of them was a director in the Bank of England in the sixteen hundreds.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Whether related to us I don't know might've been.
interviewer:  What about on your mother's side?
579:  I know very little. I think they lived most of their lives right here in Warren County.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um you say you- you never married?
579:  No never married.
interviewer:  Tell me something about What this- um what Vicksburg is like. How- how much it's changed um the most, what different types of people live here, that sort of thing.
579:  Good gracious. Well it's changed alright, in many ways for the better. Being on the river and on a highway that goes from East to West from uh Georgia to Texas it has grown.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And many suburbs have sprung up. There's streets that I encounter every now and then I don't have the faintest idea where they are. There has- don't want to go too fast for you-
interviewer:  No, go ahead.
579:  There's always been a substantial negro population here.
interviewer:  Would you say fifty percent? or?
579:  Not quite I think. If I've ever seen any figures on it I don't remember them. But certainly thirty-five to forty percent I'd estimate.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It's largely been an agricultural community here. Cotton mostly. #1 Uh #
interviewer:  #2 Because of the # the Delta the Delta being around it?
579:  {NW} This is you might say the end of the Delta.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  And that what is now called the Delta is not really the Delta that's way down there below New Orleans. Waters- rivers spread- land spreads out flapping streams in different channels of the river and all that but {NW} what we call a- the Delta is from here to Memphis.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The hills are nearly all on the East side of the railroad and highway.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and we've had some terrible times with floods. Good gracious alive. Of course, building levies made a great deal of difference. It just protected millions of acres of land from being overflowed every year.
interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  Not just once in a while but every year. The government keeps those levies up, although in a few sections there are levy districts.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and I'm not sure about this but I think that the districts get considerable financial help from the U.S. government.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Because after all that river drains what {D: three other} states I guess. And it's not a local problem
interviewer:  uh-huh um The types of people that there were um I guess well I've looked around and seen some of these houses, you know these, beautiful old houses. um Did the war in Vicksburg, there- was there sort of a- an Aristocratic class or what- what different social classes were there and how would you- you say your family fit in?
579:  There's always been a good element here composed of educated people, church-goers,
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  uh good business men, professional men, and we've had some foreign element, mostly Lebanese.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  uh Let' see uh Syrians
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Italians Jews a few Irish and a few Chinese. On the whole our citizen- citizenry I guess we'd say has been a high class one.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Our folks have always believed in giving good educations to their children and it's uh I say the exception rather than the rule that a boy or girl who finishes high school goes doesn't go to college
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Most of them go and they go to good colleges too.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, mine was a small college but they have graduated some very distinguished men. and uh some have gone to Yale, Harvard, Princeton University of Virginia a great many of course to Mississippi colleges.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Is your family one of the older families of Vicksburg? or
579:  Yes, it is.
interviewer:  Your mother's- on your mother's side mainly or?
579:  Yes, they were here before my father's side came in.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Were there a lot of plantation owners back um fifty years ago? Did they still have large plantations? like they-
579:  Not quite as many because in a good many cases the original owners died and the large plantations were cut up into smaller ones.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Do many people living in Vicksburg now still own land in the Delta?
579:  Still what?
interviewer:  Still own land in the Delta? #1 Do they still #
579:  #2 Not as # many as sixty years ago.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Oh older than- farther back than that really but there still are some. However, managing a plantation from eighty miles away, a hundred miles away is not a wise thing to do You've got to be right there with it. So mostly the plantations are now owned by people who live on them or nearby
interviewer:  mm-hmm um I'd like to just uh I'd like to get an- an idea of the house that you grew up in. {X} Did you move around very much when you were young?
579:  No, thank the Lord. Our house is right across the street here, diagonally opposite.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Ten room house, air cured, hard cypress, and long leaf pine the like of which couldn't be bought or thirty years later. It was just a fine temper that did grew in those days and it wasn't used so fast that lower grade lumber went into buildings.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It was a ten room house and finished in eighteen eighty-six. I'm not sure about this but I have a recollection of seeing a paid bill of the builders showing that the contract price was forty five hundred dollars. Well, that was uh before the business district contracted on this neighborhood. It gradually contracted on it and uh when I saw I acquired the uh ownership by buying the interests of my brothers- I had four brothers.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and uh meantime well the main business street is only two blocks down the street here. {B} ask and on uh Crawford and South and Veto and Monroe and Cherry all, around us mercantile businesses were moving in. Well, I knew I was not going to have a really difficult time selling a house when I decided to move to an apartment. So, I just put an ad in the paper and I got three very acceptable bids and took the best one. And uh moved to the apartment about three blocks away.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I didn't want you to come there because I'm such a poor house keeper I didn't want you to see it.
interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
579:  #2 {NW} #
interviewer:  um I'd like to get an idea of the um what that house looked like. Do you think you could make a sketch of the floor plan?
579:  Now, let's see.
interviewer:  Just the floor plan, you know.
579:  North. South Street. Well, this is really a boulevarded street now. Monroe Street.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, the house had- getting this to scale's gonna be difficult- there was a little offset there. Here, that extends where only one room is. Then, the front room had a bay window.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and there's a story connected with the kitchen in this house. My grandfather- mother's folks lived in a house just behind it that's now swallowed up in that big cinder building over there.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Just built all around it and the kitchen was out in the yard as it is at Mount Vernon
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and {X} and other old time houses so as to keep the odor of food out of the house. Well, I- in our house- this was added on later- the bedroom sans a door porch and now, let's see, yeah that's- this house was added- the room there was added on.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  This was the the front room and this was the dining room. Oh, I'm leaving out the hall. Go ahead, I haven't come far enough. Yea, that's about it. There was a door there. And that's a door there and that's a door there and above is a small room here and a pretty large room here and well, there was a porch beginning here porch came over to this part. Porch. Well, when they- when my mother and father wanted to build a house they bought the lot from grandmother {B}
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and she said now that the kitchen must be out in the yard so that you won't have the odor of food in the house well, my mother said 'Well, mother people have changed their minds about that now. Different attitude. It's too much trouble to have the kitchen out in the yard and bring food through all sorts of weather.'
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  'Well then it must be at the end of the porch and no connection no door between that and the house.' So that's the way it was. So all the food was brought - {NW} brought along this porch into the dining room.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It wasn't too bad but it was pretty unhandy. Roughly that's it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Let me try to label these rooms here. This was the kitchen here?
579:  The kitchen would've been
interviewer:  No You had it facing this way.
579:  That's North. The kitchen would've been about along here. and and no door between that and the rest of the house.
interviewer:  This- this was the kitchen here?
579:  Yes
interviewer:  uh-huh Seeing and this well, could- could you just mark- mark off the label.
579:  Now let's see, this is the dining room. This is a hall. Oh, I've moved that up too far No, that's right. That's right Uh living room
interviewer:  Did you used to call that the front room?
579:  huh?
interviewer:  Did you used to call that the front room?
579:  Upstairs we did but not downstairs. Used to call this the sitting room really, sitting room. That's where that offset was, yeah the dining room. Well there was a an- a little room in here called the pantry.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Hall
interviewer:  Is this a wall here?
579:  This is a hall here. And this is a- I skipped a room, now, let's see, dining room, dining room Well, this is really the dining room. Although that offset window was in it, I remember that. I'm not very good at drawing plans, I see. Well anyway, that gives you a general idea. Well, that's North.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What- What was this room here the- the porch?
579:  Well, there was a a long hall. Yeah, that's the hall long hall. and this the stairs went up- {NW} I made a mess of this plan- the stairs went up from the lower floor to the second. Really in that offset, that's where it was.
interviewer:  mm-hmm. Which- what about this room here?
579:  That was a bedroom that was added on, well, I haven't got it right though. That was a bit later on when one of us married. One of the others, that is.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about the- the upstairs?
579:  The what?
interviewer:  The upstairs.
579:  The what?
interviewer:  Upstairs.
579:  #1 Upstairs. #
interviewer:  #2 Is that the-? # Could you sort of make a sketch of that?
579:  Second floor, now, let's see. Big rooms, high ceilings.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Porch. Bedroom. Bath and storage. Porch. Bedroom. What we call a bay window.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Bedroom. Then, that's right, the porch ended at that hall- the hall ended at that porch. And on this side, let's see, the porch came out about there. On this side That represents a door. Bedroom. Porch. Porch here. {NW} That's not much good at that.
interviewer:  Well, that's fine. Pretty large house.
579:  Ten rooms. And such material, my goodness. The termites wouldn't- they just didn't like that good cypress; they wouldn't eat it.
interviewer:  {NW} um You know you, you mentioned a porch. Do you remember different names for porches?
579:  One other: gallery.
interviewer:  Did that- what- what did gallery mean? Just any kind of porch?
579:  It's really not a porch
interviewer:  uh-uh
579:  But everybody had a gallery, not a porch.
interviewer:  #1 OK #
579:  #2 {NW} # That is most people did.
interviewer:  uh-huh um Did you have a fireplace?
579:  In every room. That was the only way of heating them.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Later on, we discontinued many of the fire places and put in gas heaters.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and also now let's see, about uh see the lower floor, hall, dining room, hall somewhere about in there uh. That's an F. U-R-N-A-C-E
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Furnace, right? Under a partition between a room and a hall.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  but mostly every room had its fire place That was all there was back in eighteen eighty-six.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  One closet in the house. About that deep.
interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  Old wardrobes sitting around everywhere
interviewer:  What was a wardrobe? What was a wardrobe?
579:  Well some of them call them armoires, armoires (C: pronunciation} and well, that was it, the armoires (C: pronunciation} which is not the exact term, or wardrobes. They- some of them were single and most of them were double. Two doors to the double ones, one door to the single ones. {X} That's where people put the clothes.
interviewer:  You could hang your clothes up in it?
579:  Oh, it had a shelf up at the top for hats and what have you and hangers for clothing and provided the moths didn't get it- get in there, it worked pretty well.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  Incidentally, I was forced {X} sold the contents of that house. One old fellow in Natchez bought six of those old wardrobes that I thought I'd have a hard time selling. He bought six of them!
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I don't know what he did with it- he- he handled- he was a dealer in antique furniture. Natchez is a hot bed of that, good gracious. You can get some- You can still get some superb antiques down there now.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  I had already sold them all when I heard he died last year.
interviewer:  um Tell me about the fireplace the part that the smoke goes up through.
579:  Chimneys went up through the roof and the fire- the chimneys had what were called flues F-L-U-E-S
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  One flue took care of the downstairs fireplace, another flue took care of the upstairs fire place.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We burned coal which was pretty cheap and left the powdery residue of ashes. We always had kindling on hand to start fires and old newspapers.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  You crumpled up an old newspaper and put some kindling on top of that and a coal on top of that. Made a great deal of work for the servers.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um What do you call that uh part on the floor in front of the fireplace?
579:  The hearth H-E-A-R-T-H. It was generally paved with some kind of tile.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Uh usually glazed tile. Also, sometimes around the fireplace would be something of the same material a frame.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I suppose that was a measure of fireproofing.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about um the part above the fireplace you could set things on?
579:  Yeah they always had a large mirror there.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  And some shelves along the side and on top
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Small shelves.
interviewer:  But that long shelf that went across do you remember what the was called?
579:  Oh it was mostly put vases and ornaments on.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  In a few cases the narrow sections alongside each end of the mirror had small shelves and little things would be put there too.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever call that shelf a fireboard or a mantelpiece?
579:  Fireboard?
interviewer:  Or mantelpiece?
579:  Oh there was a mantelpiece, always a mantelpiece.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Some of them iron, cast iron. The older ones.
interviewer:  Iron?
579:  Uh-huh
interviewer:  I never saw one of those.
579:  Thank goodness they were safer too. Not so likely to catch fire.
interviewer:  Huh um What about the um things you'd set- have in the fireplace to lay your wood across?
579:  They had grates G-R-A- G-R-A-T-E-S
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Some of them are rather smaller which meant that you had to constantly add fuel to the fire. Some of them were pretty large, they didn't take so much tending.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and uh many fireplaces had uh mesh frames around to prevent living coal from flying out and setting a- burning a hole in the
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  carpet.
interviewer:  Did you ever see something long though, um sort of, I don't know exactly how it'd- it would be but something kind of long; it'd go back. Like that and you'd- you'd need two of these and and you could lay the wood across.
579:  They were called andirons.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  They were entirely for wood fireplaces.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  You can still see a great many of them around here- in the old ones I mean.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  A few older ones and newer ones just laid across this andiron. It left room underneath for a draft to go throu- through and give it a good burning.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear an old fashioned or- or a more common name for andirons? Did you ever hear it called anything besides andirons?
579:  Don't recall it, no.
interviewer:  Firedogs or dog irons? Did you ever hear that?
579:  I guess they were but I don't I don't recall that ever- In fact, I doubt if they called them andirons, I don't know what they called them.
interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
579:  #2 {NW} # Been a long time ago.
interviewer:  Uh-huh um You know if you build a fire a- a wood fire now um you might take a big piece of wood and set that sort of toward the back of the fire place and maybe it would burn all night long.
579:  mm-hmm I'm sure {X}
interviewer:  Do you remember what- what that was called?
579:  Uh they called that the backlog.
interviewer:  mm-kay What about the black stuff that forms in the chimney?
579:  Oh my goodness It just poured out after the air and settled on the roof some of it
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  and on the lawn. And my goodness I remember one time a lot of swallows came down the chimney of my mother's bedroom; there was no fire in it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  {X} that is lined with soot and all those countless wings beating like that a large fan-shaped deposit of soot stretched out all the way from the fireplace five feet into the room.
interviewer:  Gosh.
579:  I remember what a time we had getting that mass of soot up.
interviewer:  {NW} um Tell me something about, um, well, tell me about furniture in a house, um, the thing that I'm sitting in now, you'd call that a? You'd call this thing a?
579:  They really didn't have that exact type. Much of it was made of walnut which is now quite scarce.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Might pretty wood, too.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Most of it was made of walnut and not so much oak as you see now. More oak now because uh the walnut trees were attacked by some sort of worm or insect or something and there just isn't as much walnut as there used to be, which is also true of chestnuts.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  If che- if the chestnut trees were ever used for furniture I do not remember. But I remember nearly all furniture, including wardrobes
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  was walnut
interviewer:  mm-hmm What different um furniture did you have in- in your living room?
579:  We'd have rocking chairs and perhaps a big reclining chair with a footstool. Mostly, that's it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The dining table was often walnut and the chairs walnut.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about something longer um longer piece of furniture that two or three people could sit on.
579:  Sofas, oh I was about to forget the sofas. Oh yes, we had those.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  but some of them were made of rosewood. They're better fur- pieces of furniture- more expensive and you still see some of them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  People who are taking care of them had them reupholstered, and a great many of them are still in existence and in use.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But they had to be reupholstered two or three times maybe.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Were there different names for sofas or- or something similar to a sofa- or?
579:  Now let's see, settee.
interviewer:  uh-huh What was that like?
579:  Mostly, just a different name for a- a porch- uh- uh- for a sofa.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and sometimes there'd be what they call a lounge.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It had no arms, no back, it sloped up somewhat at one end and a person stretched out on it, that was {X} somewhat in the nature of a pull.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um What did you have besides um you had the wardrobe now for hanging your clothes up then. What would you have just with drawers in it that you would have to fold your clothes up and put it in?
579:  You had- what did they call them? a freshwood chiffonier. C-H-I-F-F O-N I-E-R
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or I can't think of the other name. They were not often called chests or drawers in the old days, that was a that was a later expression but that's what they were.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear them called bureau?
579:  Oh, yes, yes, yes. Well bureau. Yes that's right, I forgot about the bureaus, yes. They generally had a mirror on top.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Uh, dressing tables for women were not really made in the old days; they came in later.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Specially, those with one mirror and two wings that could be changed.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were later. Well, some of them were called dressers but mostly they were chiffoniers.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did that have the mirror to it?
579:  The uh what we now call chests or drawers did not have mirrors.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They had more drawers from top to bottom than some of the others did.
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 but no mirror #
interviewer:  Is that what you used to call chiffonier?
579:  Not exactly because some of the chiffoniers uh were didn't have quite as many drawers and had room for a little mirror on top.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um and then something on um rollers that you can pull down keeping a window pulled down to keep out the light?
579:  They were treated cloth. They- we called them shades.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and my goodness they gave us much trouble. Something would- the ratchet would get out of place and you'd hear a whirring sound and all that interior spring, they'd go, and their raising and lowering would be loose. And you'd have to find some way of tightening that up again and the little ratchet on the other side was inside. You had to hold that back while you were winding that spring up again and then put the ratchet in place to hold it after you got it there.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Oh, I've done that many a time.
interviewer:  {NW} um You mentioned um uh the roof of the house what- what would you call those things along the edge of the roof to carry the water off?
579:  Valleys.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were in the nature of a trough
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and down-spouts carried them down to the ground and also to cisterns.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  In our yard, we had an old cistern there. and up to the time I sold the house and a bulldozer filled in the system it was in good order. A remarkably good job of brick-laying shaped like a jug.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and uh I remember my father used to shut off the downspouts during the summer provided there was enough water in the system. We had no running water in the house.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and then in the winter when there was much rain after there'd been enough rain to wash the soot and dust off the house, the roof that is-
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  the valve would be open and the water would go into the system. And when the system was full, the valve would be turned the other way and the water would go out into the street.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And oddly enough we drank that water for years on end and nobody had typhoid fever. Why? Just good luck I think.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Was uh this valley- was it built in on the roof like that
579:  Built in, mm-hmm. It was shaped like a a square with uh one side- one- with the top out.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Say about it was pretty wide, on our house they were about that wide.
interviewer:  About eight or nine inches?
579:  About nine inches. And the sides sloped a little bit.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And the downspouts which were large, about five inches in diameter
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  brought the water down from the valleys to either the street or the cistern
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about when you have a house in an L? You know that low place where they come together?
579:  mm-hmm Well, {D: the tinners were pretty skillful about that, they just} sawed it in a corner there and- and gave it to proper grade so it would run off.
interviewer:  Well, what- what did you call that? That low place?
579:  It had no special name Just- just part of the valleys- one of the valleys.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and Our house had a tin roof on it and it must have been a high grade of tin because it was heavy too, thick metal.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We didn't have to renew that roof for about let's see, eighteen eighty-six, nineteen forty years I'd estimate. Then it began to have some leaks in it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and had to put another roof over it.
interviewer:  um You know, some houses had a little room up at the top of the house.
579:  You can see some of them around here now. What good they were, I don't know.
interviewer:  Well um not really a a regular room just a small
579:  #1 mm-hmm #
interviewer:  #2 sort of # room you could store things up there, something. What would you call a place like that?
579:  We called the part under the roof where there were no rooms, the attic.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and were they hot in the summertime! particularly if you had a tin roof. Good gracious! There was a house a little over a block round the street it has one of those little top rooms on it. They are generally similar to what they call the widow's lookouts in Massachusetts. {X}
interviewer:  Widow's lookout?
579:  The widow- the widow's lookout,
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  or widow's something.
interviewer:  huh
579:  So many men lost their lives at sea
interviewer:  uh-huh
interviewer:  um, Say, um, you had a lot of old worthless things that you were going to throw out you'd say, um, "Oh, that's not good anymore; that's just-" What would you call stuff like that? Just old, worthless, broken-down things.
579:  We just called it rubbish or trash.
interviewer:  uh-huh What- and what about a a little room that's used to store um odds and ends in? Things that you don't know what to do with?
579:  We had three of them. {NW} And they had, uh, old disused- disused furniture and old pictures and cracked, uh, china and, uh, old books, old window shades, remnants of wallpaper.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  All sorts of things that eventually were thrown away.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What- what did you call the- that room? How would you refer to it
579:  Oddly enough, we'd call one of them the big room. {NW} It wasn't any bigger than the others, but that's what we called it. #1 The big room. #
interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
579:  And when we added a room to the house, when one of my brothers married, That was a- we'd just call that a plunder room.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That had a great deal of space in it compared to the others.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Let's see, there was one on the East side downstairs two on the East side downstairs. There was only two of them. That's right. Two of them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um Talking about the daily housework that a woman would have to do say if- if her house was in a big mess, you'd say she had to?
579:  There was plenty of colored help in those days, I mean post-slavery days.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They didn't earn much but it didn't cost them anything like what it costs anybody to live these days.
interviewer:  mm-hmm You had plenty of- of servants at your #1 house? #
579:  #2 Nearly every # household had a cook and a maid.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The cook did the cooking, and the maid cleaned up and made fires and cat-eyed the ashes and so forth.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um and the thing that you'd sweep with, you'd call that a?
579:  The what?
interviewer:  The thing that people use to sweep with.
579:  Sleep in?
interviewer:  Sweep with.
579:  Oh, sweep w- brooms.
interviewer:  uh-huh And say if- if the broom was in the corner and- like in that corner there and the door was open so that the door was sort of hiding the broom, you'd say that the broom was where?
579:  Behind the door.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Although, there are people that- very few people that careless about it; they'd rather put the broom in a closet where it wouldn't show.
interviewer:  uh-huh You had a lot of closets in your house or?
579:  {NW} In our house we had one.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  and a little one under the stairs that- {D: well, that was the name before then we changed it} a little one under the stairs you had to stoop to get under it. {D: mm-hmm} It was very small. It would hold rubber shoes and umbrellas and what not.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um And to get from the, um- you mentioned the stairs. What would you call it outside, um, from the ground up to the porch. Would you call that the stairs too?
579:  Stairs.
interviewer:  mm-hmm But would- would you use an- um would you call it steps? or stairs? or? #1 Stairway? #
579:  #2 Well, usually # to correct myself, the- the steps from the {NW} inside walk in the yard up to the porch were called steps.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Inside, from the first floor to the second, were stairs.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And um you say years ago, on Monday, women usually did the what?
579:  #1 {X} #
interviewer:  #2 The clothes # were all dirty. You'd say they have to do the?
579:  Oh, a washwoman came and got them
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Took them to her house and washed them and ironed them and starched them and brought them back.
interviewer:  Did you ever see anyone wash the clothes? Did you see how that used to be done?
579:  Oh, yes. There was a big round tub and they'd- and a washboard #1 Corrugated #
interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
579:  surface on it and they'd rub the garments and towels and what not on this corrugated metal washboard.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And of course they didn't change the water often enough and uh they really were not very clean.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Incidentally, a careful housewife would never bring- never put the wash when it was brought home on a bed because there was a chance that there might be bed bugs in those garments or towels or what have you.
interviewer:  Really?
579:  Yes, indeed.
interviewer:  From the washwoman's?
579:  From the washwoman's house.
interviewer:  #1 So you #
579:  #2 And once you got # those things,
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  their name was Legion when they got a start.
interviewer:  {NW} um What would you call a place now where, um, well, maybe where you could send your shirts to be cleaned?
579:  Excuse me while I yawn. The laundry.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were- they were called steam launderers.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We had uh Oh, I don't remember more than two Chinese laundries here, everything done by hand.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I remember only two of them.
interviewer:  Did people used to use that word laundry to mean washing and ironing? Would they ever say I have to do the laundry? Or would they say-
579:  No, they would refer to it was the washing.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  and things that were brought- that the washwoman brought back was called wash.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um and say if um if the door was open and you didn't want it to be you'd tell someone to?
579:  Shut the door.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Usually said shut rather than close.
interviewer:  And, uh, you know, in some houses they have boards that lap over each other, like this.
579:  That's what ours had; they call it a weatherboarding.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Ours was weather-boarded with air-cured seasoned hard cypress.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  If you keep it painted, it'll last two hundred years. And, well, we kept ours painted alright but it didn't last that long. eighteen eighty-six to nineteen sixty- uh- eight
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Eighty two years.
interviewer:  That's a long time.
579:  But that cypress, no wood like it in the world, it's just almost eternal.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um say if- if you were gonna hang up a picture you'd take a nail and a?
579:  Hammer.
interviewer:  and you'd say I- I took the hammer and I what the nail in?
579:  The old style nails were pretty substantial. They were what were called cut nails.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Not round ones. Our house had- was built with cut nails. They were just for the name any case they were cut out of metal.
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 So # They were square or slightly oblong
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  in shape. Several sizes, of course, and they were the very dickens to get out too, oh my goodness. um The- the- the floors were generally hard pine, almost as hard as oak.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Beautiful grain in them and, in the winter, carpets were put down and, in the summer, most people put down what we call matting, made in China, I think.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Strips about a yard wide. Tacks, no end of tacks in them, that ruined the floors. Once you've discontinued the use of the matting and used rows there were rows and rows of scars in the floor made by these big tacks.
interviewer:  mm
579:  God, it was dreadful. Well these- oh, I forgot to tell you about these, uh, picture nails.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were about two and a half inches long. Very sharp point, they were sharpened by a machine. And, the top was threaded and there was a porcelain, uh, Metal-bound cap that screwed on after you got your picture hung.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um But tell me about, um, putting the nail in- in the wall. What word would you use to describe that? You'd say I what the nail in?
579:  A careful person would hammer on the wall lightly and just move across in a straight line and try to estimate where the joist was
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  by the difference in the sound.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It was a bit uncertain but you wanted that in order to get a good surface to support the picture. And some of them were pretty heavy.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Because you y- eh, behi- uh, behind the walls was what we call lath, L-A-T-H.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were about four and a half feet long and about, uh, an inch and a quarter wide and about quarter inch thick and once the joists were in place carpenters would nail these little laths on there and then plaster was put on top of that.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The plaster would go through the cracks in these laths and run down a little bit inside which acted to put it securely.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Then the surface was plaster Paris, smooth and white, and that was usually covered with wallpaper.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Not paint. It wasn't until a good many years after the old houses were built that some people took to painting the {D: plaster Paris} instead of putting on wall paper.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So if you were hanging a picture and you drove a nail in the space between two laths, you didn't get a good foundation for it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It might pull out and fall.
interviewer:  um What different- Where did you used to keep your stove wood? #1 Did you- #
579:  #2 Stove wood? # We had our separate little house out in the yard.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Sometimes it would be divided: stove woo- wood on one side, used in the kitchen
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and coal on the other. Coal was used on our little house and sometimes we used it for cooking.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But very often oak wood was used for the cooking and coal for the heating. I guess the wood was cheaper.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What did you call that- that house that you kept the wood in?
579:  The coal house or the wood house.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um What about well, you- you had a bathroom inside your house.
579:  #1 {NW} #
interviewer:  #2 Did #
579:  We did, I remember the first one {X} It had a built in tin tub. Ours was one of the early houses in town to have one of them. Up in the attic was a- an iron tank about six feet square.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  A pipe led from that to the cistern.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And there was a pump with a long handle on it and my two brothers would get on this pump and pump water from the cistern up to that tank.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It flowed by gravity down to the built in tin tub but there was no way of heating it so in the bathroom we had a little stove which furnished heat and also a great big saucepan or pot of some kind to heat the water to pour into the tub after you had let the cold water in {NW} That's the best we could do.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  Oh, that was crude. My goodness, that was crude.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  There were no- there was no electricity. There were no electric fans. There were no screens. And mosquito bars were used in the summer time. You had to keep the mosquitoes off. Heavens, you couldn't sleep if you didn't have some protection from mosquitoes. And some nights were stifling.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  You'd have no electric fan. You would've been burning a gas light which turned out a great deal of heat. {NW} And then when you went to bed you had to get under this mosquito bar.
interviewer:  Mosquito bar?
579:  Bar. B-A-R.
interviewer:  #1 Wha- wha- what was that? #
579:  #2 It was a netting really. #
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  And there was almost no air circulation under it. Good gracious, it was just dreadful! I don't know how we stood it.
interviewer:  {NW} You know, I guess most people in town weren't as lucky as y'all to have bathrooms inside. What did they have? What did they call the the building outside? The bathroom outside.
579:  There were no window or toilets and there were outdoor privies we called them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They called them Chic Sale's Edifices later on. {NW} And uh Oh, that was crude too. Heavens and Earth that was just- I don't know how we lived through it.
interviewer:  {NW} um
579:  One side is for the colored folks and one side for the white folks.
interviewer:  Mm-hmm Tell me something about the different buildings you'd- you'd have on a farm. Were- were you ever around a farm much? {X}
579:  Uh, buildings on farms?
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Well, I don't know a thing about that. Never lived on a farm.
interviewer:  You're-
579:  #1 What did-? #
interviewer:  #2 They would have a corn crib #
579:  and a cotton house
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  and an implement shed to put things like plows- didn't have any tractors in the early days- and, uh, cotton wagons and, uh, {NW} wagons drawn by mules and horses, mostly mules. Ther- there would be, uh, uh, cabins, we call them, all over the plantation. and that's where the colored folks lived.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Very, very crude. Usually there was a pump out in the yard. Up in the delta you can go a certain distance and nearly always find water. But some of it reeks of iron and I don't see anybody stands it.
interviewer:  um What about the place- the place where the- the animals would stay, the big building? #1 Where you- #
579:  #2 Where what? #
interviewer:  #1 #
579:  #2 #
interviewer:  What about the big building where you could store hay or keep the animals?
579:  They were called sheds and barns.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Some of them were just sheds for the, uh, horses and mules. Some were barns with room upstairs for hay and corn.
interviewer:  What did they call that room upstairs?
579:  That was just the loft.
interviewer:  uh-huh Say if um- if there was too much hay to put up in the loft Oh {X} I'm beyond my depth now. I don't know a thing about that.
579:  #1 Well, #
interviewer:  #2 Well, #
579:  I think that they stacked it outside.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  And, uh, I do not recall having anything like tarpaulin which is- in the old days was heavy canvas or plastic was unknown, there were no- no plastic covering for haystacks.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's comparatively modern.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Do you know, um, what'd they call it when- when they'd cut the hay and dry it and then rake it up in little piles Did you ever hear a word for those little piles of hay?
579:  Don't recall any. #1 No #
interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
579:  #1 #
interviewer:  #2 # What about, um- tell me about the different animals that they had on a farm and- and where they'd be kept.
579:  Some of them stayed outdoors, summer and winter. We had mules, which is a habit animal, combination of a horse and a jackass.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Incapable of reducing, uh- reproducing themselves.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Uh, we had hogs and in some cases, uh, sheep and goats
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  but mostly horses and mules.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The mules, did they have a work! And they really did it too.
interviewer:  What- if you had two of those mules working together what would that be called?
579:  A team.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Team of mules.
interviewer:  um did- now you- did you go out very often to- uh, you said your father owned {X} you said your-
579:  He managed the p- the- the- the- he managed the plantations that were owned by my mother's father.
interviewer:  uh-huh Did- did you visit those plantations very often?
579:  No, very seldom. He went right often because he had to keep up with what was going on. I went with him once or twice, not often.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Where were the cows kept?
579:  Well, there was nearly always a- well, there had to be, pastures for them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Because they didn't acquire a great deal of feed except maybe in a severe winter. And there'd be a cow lot where they were milked but, uh,
interviewer:  Where would the #1 cow #
579:  #2 no # hmm?
interviewer:  Excuse me. Where would the cow lot be?
579:  Generally, right next to the barn.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But usually, the- the cattle stayed outdoor summer and winter.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  because we don't have very severe winters here, except rarely.
interviewer:  mm-mm What about a- a small fenced in place out in the pasture where you could leave the cows overnight for milking?
579:  Oh, I don't know too much about that but I th- I think that if there were a great many cows they just stayed outdoors, summer and winter.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of a milk gap or cow pen?
579:  Cowpen?
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  People who lived in towns had a cow so they had cowpens.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  And what is the other one? Milk what?
interviewer:  Milk gap.
579:  Gap?
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  G-A-P gap? Never heard of it.
interviewer:  um What about the hogs? Where would you keep them if you were gonna um, fatten them?
579:  They were allowed to run in fields but there had to be a mighty good fence to keep them from getting under or through and running away.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Generally, they just stayed outdoors somewhere in winter. That's been my observation. I never lived on a plantation.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, did you ever see them put in a small or fenced in area? or?
579:  For feeding maybe. mm-hmm And these pumps could be found in several locations on the plantation because the stock had to have water.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I don't know how far they have to go to strike water Probably not much more than, uh, thirty feet perhaps.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Sometimes at a more shallow level than that.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um, the place- where did people used to get their milk and butter? Before they had refrigerators? Or used to keep their milk and butter?
579:  I really don't know. My earliest recollection of that is ice refrigerators.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The ice man would come around and bring in a big block of ice and put it in there. And it gradually melted, you know, and the refrigerator would lose its, uh, efficiency. And generally, there was a funnel beneath the refrigerator and a pipe leading down through the floor
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and the dripping just went through that into the ground which was bad practice because that encouraged termites.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about- what would you call a farm now where you had a lot of milk cows and sold the milk #1 and butter? #
579:  #2 Dairy. # A Dairy.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Well, there were several of those around here and they would come around in a one horse light wagon with the milk in, uh, large milk cans.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And they would have a long handled dipper. They might ring a bell when they got to {X} a hand bell. And you go out there and carry your vessel, you take one of these long handled dippers and draw up milk from the, uh, big can and turn it out into your vessel
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  You could never be too sure about how clean it was either.
interviewer:  {NW} um You mentioned, um, a field. What would you call a smaller area? Where you had uh, maybe just a little bit of tobacco planted or just some
579:  #1 No tobacco #
interviewer:  #2 {X} #
579:  in this country. I think the winters would eat it up before it got strong. Uh, or a garden.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or a patch.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  For example, on the plantations All the negroes who were worth anything had a- had a- a garden patch.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And they would grow greens and, uh, corn and maybe okra and, uh, snap beans and butter beans.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Some of them were not energetic enough or enterprising enough to do that.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um, what kinds of fences do you remember?
579:  They were barbed wire or wire netting with very large {X} probably five and six square but you couldn't use those for pigs because they would get through or dig under.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever see a, um, wooden fence that went in and out like this?
579:  Very, very few. You don't see those until you get up about Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, up that way.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Not many of them down this way. I have seen a few.
interviewer:  What are they called?
579:  um Zig-zag fence. Maybe called them a zig-zag fence, I don't remember. I never saw many of them.
interviewer:  Did you ever see, um, a- a fence or a wall that's made out of loose stone or rock?
579:  A few. In this particular area, there is what is known as Vicksburg limestone. And it was deposited eons ago when the gulf of Mexico extended as far off as Montana. And the way I happen to know about that is that one time I went to Glacier National Park in Montana- go there some time if you can, beautiful scenery- and the, uh, ranger said eons ago the Gulf of Mexico extended as far up as Montana. But in this particular area along the river Vicksburg limestone was deposited. It's, uh, relatively soft. There's a house on Cherry Street up here, about three block away, the yard is higher than the street and the wall, retaining wall- wall, is that old Vicksburg limestone.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And on the National Cemetery road going straight out Washington Street to the National Cemetery,
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  you can see it in the wall on the right hand side of the road.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I walked along that one time. There used to be a ledge ab- above the road, about twenty feet. And I found some of the most exquisite little shells. Exact replicas of the large ones you find on seashores.
interviewer:  mm
579:  There's a man at our apartment whose son is an oceanographer and, uh, he visited him one time and I said wait a minute, let me show you something. I went to my apartment, I got these exquisite little dainty shells and he was very much interested in them. I forgotten how many million years old he said they might be.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Pretty fragile too.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But this limestone is concentrated so much in this particular area that the geologists call it Vicksburg limestone.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  If you get back from the river say, uh, half a mile, you don't see as much as you do close to the river.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever say, um, what sort of fences did people used to have around their yards?
579:  Eh, wh- what about the yard?
interviewer:  What kinds of fences did people used to have around their yards?
579:  Usually, they had cast iron fences.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Particularly in front. Sometimes out the side and the front both. They didn't rust. They just lasted and lasted. Sometimes they were made of wrought iron which could be bent Cast iron can't be bent.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And they would have curved designs. Sometimes what we call picket fences, wooden fences and it the- the upright pickets were sharpened like that. they weren't good for boys to play on {NW}
interviewer:  um
579:  The fences- have you ever visited Kentucky?
interviewer:  No.
579:  Ah, that's my second home. Up there they have fences made of wood and the longitudinal pieces- the horizontal pieces are probably uh fifteen feet long and posts another piece and another post, and so on, always white washed. And they just make the place look picturesque behind that are some fine horses.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But we don't see many of those down this way.
interviewer:  You never lived up in- well, except for when you went to school up there.
579:  That's all.
interviewer:  You've never
579:  Two school terms
interviewer:  uh-huh um You know, when people raise cotton, um, and they get out there and they thin the cotton out, do you remember what term they use for that? When they-?
579:  Thinning the cotton out?
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Just that. And the picking was all done by hand and machine picking cannot excel hand picking because when the hand picking is done the cotton is clean, that is to say no trash in it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  but when these big machines go along and suck it out of the bowls they get pieces of bowls and pieces of leaves and oh, some, uh, oh little twigs and what-not. They can't compare with handpicking for the- picking out clean, high-grade cotton.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But the handpicking is too expensive now.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It's pretty hard to get pickers also. They would walk through the fields with a long sack about six feet long trailing behind them, pick cotton, stick it in there, and at the end of the day what they picked was weighed and they were paid so much per 100 pounds for the cotton they picked. That's just out of the question now. You can't get the pickers for one thing.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear the expression chopped cotton?
579:  Yes. At a certain stage, when the crop is growing up you have to chop out the weeds.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Else you would have more weeds than cotton, and that is called, uh, Wha- what?
interviewer:  Chopping.
579:  Chopping, yes. Done with heavy hoes.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, they have chemicals that just kill that stuff before it gets a start.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Some of it is put on before the cotton comes up, we call that {D: pre-merge} chemical, that is pre-emergence of the cotton.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What types of weeds and- and grass would grow up in the cotton?
579:  Principle enemy is Johnson grass. Heavens and earth it grows thick and hard and strong and, oh, it's just dreadful. Also, what they call tie vines
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  which grow all over the place if you don't stop them. And what else I don't know. Those are the two principle ones.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and um if you wanted to make a hen start laying, what might you put in her nest to fool her?
579:  To make her what?
interviewer:  If you wanted to make a hen start laying? What could you put in her nest?
579:  Oh, that's way over my head, I don't know a thing.
interviewer:  um A little while ago you mentioned, um, a china dish did, um, did you ever see an egg made out of-?
579:  I've seen many of them. Uh, that either induced the hen to lay eggs or you could steal all her eggs and she wouldn't- didn't have no sense to notice it. She saw this white china one left there and it didn't disturb her.
interviewer:  uh-huh What did- what did you call that, a?
579:  A nest egg.
interviewer:  or the ch-?
579:  Made of china.
interviewer:  uh-huh So you'd call that a- a china?
579:  We usually just called it a nest egg.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Well, they'd call it a china nest egg.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Because sometimes we'd leave a real egg as a nest egg.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um and what did you use to carry water in?
579:  Water?
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Big buckets.
interviewer:  What was that made out of?
579:  Tin. Enamelware came later.
interviewer:  What about wood? Did you ever see-?
579:  You mean fire wood?
interviewer:  Or, um, a bucket? or?
579:  Oh, wooden buckets?
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Mostly tin because the wooden buckets were not as durable.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Little heavier, too, I guess.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about something they could use to carry out food for the hogs in?
579:  For the hogs?
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's over my head too. I don't know.
interviewer:  Okay. um and something you could cook in, maybe fry eggs in?
579:  Excuse me while I yawn. Mostly iron skillets.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did that have little legs to it?
579:  Little what?
interviewer:  Did you ever see a skillet that had little legs to it?
579:  A little what?
interviewer:  Legs. #1 So you could set the #
579:  #2 Now # Yes, uh. {X}
579:  {NW}
interviewer:  uh What did people used to use to heat up water to make hot tea in?
579:  To make what?
interviewer:  Hot tea.
579:  That was generally done on the kitchen stove
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  which was fired by wood.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Split and cut in lengths, convenient lengths.
interviewer:  What would they heat the water in? What would they call the vessel?
579:  Most stoves had what we call firebacks which was a cast iron chamber and, um, my recollection is that the water circulated because some of it was hot and some of it was cold and it went into a sort of reservoir so that there'd always be some hot water.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  In fact, we even had some hot water from such a source in our bathrooms after some time had passed. And late at night that would run out. {NW} Wouldn't get a fresh supply until the cook came the next morning and built another fire.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um Did you ever see a a thing that had a sort of a spout to it and a a handle, maybe made out of iron?
579:  A- a spout? Ma- made out of what?
interviewer:  Well, it's made out of iron, it had a a spout #1 to it. #
579:  #2 Kettle, # yes.
interviewer:  What's that?
579:  Cast iron kettle.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  That was- very often they were set on top of stoves so that the cook would always have some hot water handy, just pick it up with a cloth and pour some out of the spout.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  For cooking vegetables or making tea or something like that.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um And did you ever see- this may have been before your time, but did you ever see people wash- maybe some of the poorer people- uh, wash their clothes out in the yard and then they'd take a big, um, vessel made out of iron and heat the water?
579:  I never saw them except for many years later. There's one right down this street here. At, uh, another boulevard at a street such as Monroe is. Monroe ran North and South; Jackson street ra- ran East and West. And, in the old days, where that big old pot is now- it's used as a fountain now,
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  the town was pretty well quartered. Oh, it was more than bisected, it was quartered. This street was named South Street because it was the southernmost street in the town. Out there were hills {X} and what not, forests.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And there's one of those there. Huge thing. They were on legs although I believe this one isn't Might have been used for a- for making syrup or rendering sugar or
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 out of # cane and what not. Anyway, that's the only one I can remember.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, of course, I never saw it in use. But on on wash days, very often, a huge vessel like that would be out of the yard with a fire- a wood fire underneath it to provide hot water for washing.
interviewer:  mm-hmm You mentioned the syrup. Is there another name for syrup?
579:  Molasses. {NW} Although there's much difference between molasses and syrup. Syrup's thin, molasses is thick.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  There is also a syrup called sorghum. S-O-R-G-H-U-M.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Which is a separate plant, it's not the- not sugar cane. But it's generally similar to it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And the syrup is right good. I don't know when I've tasted any. Long time.
interviewer:  Did you ever hear syrup and molasses called short sweetening and long sweetening?
579:  No. There is a substance that is halfway or part of the way between the original rendering, after heating the cane juice to the finished syrup or molasses. It's called quete. Q-U-E-T-E. Not much known in this state, but it is in Louisiana.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And it's delicious. It has- it's very thick, and it has gobs of half formed sugar in it. You get some of that on a hot biscuit! Good.
interviewer:  hmm
579:  I haven't seen any in years. Q-U-E-T-E. Quete.
interviewer:  It's between the- the molasses and the
579:  It's between the time when the, uh, juice from the cane is started in the cooking process and the final rendering into syrup or molasses is completed.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um Say if- if you were setting the table, um, for people to eat with, you'd give everyone a next to the person's plate, you'd give them a?
579:  I was yawning; I missed some of that.
interviewer:  Well, the- the utensils that people eat with
579:  Pretty much the same as now. Except, that some of the old cooking implements such as forks and spoons were pretty clumsy compared to modern ones
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and the tableware owned by the better class of people were made of what is called- was called then coin silver. Practically, the same as sterling silver today.
interviewer:  hmm
579:  Of course, there was plated ware too.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But the better families had what was called coin silver.
interviewer:  mm-hmm You'd say you'd have a a spoon and a fork and a?
579:  Spoons, forks, knives, table spoons, teaspoons.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  About the same as we have now but not as exquisitely made.
interviewer:  uh-huh To cut your food with you'd use a?
579:  Oh, there were knives.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were not as thin and sharp as modern knives and they didn't have as high-grade metal in them.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What would you call that- the big, um, kind that you could use for cutting meat? You'd call that a? Do you remember a really big?
579:  Uh, they called them, uh, I think choppers or
interviewer:  Did you ever hear bu-
579:  butcher, uh, cleavers, that was, uh, a more modern term I think, yes that was a more modern, uh. Now I don't remember what they called the big ones that butchers used. I don't think they called them cleavers in the old days. If they did, I don't remember it.
interviewer:  What about just the- a long one that did that have- did you ever hear that called a butcher?
579:  That was called a butcher's knife.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It might be, uh, over two feet long.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And say if the- if the dishes were dirty, you'd say I have to?
579:  Wash the dishes.
interviewer:  And you say "after she washes the dishes, then she" what them in clear water?
579:  If they did it properly, yes. There were- came a finer rinsing and then clear water.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Get all the dirt and fragments- get all the, uh, soap and maybe any little fragments of food off that way.
interviewer:  So you say she- she does what? She- she runs clear water over them then?
579:  Rinse.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Rinsed it.
interviewer:  and um What would you call the- the cloth or rag you use when you're washing dishes?
579:  The what kind of bag?
interviewer:  The cloth or the rag you use when you're
579:  Oh, it's just called a dishrag.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about when you're drying them?
579:  What?
interviewer:  When you're drying dishes.
579:  A towel.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Dishtowel.
interviewer:  And to bathe your face with, you'd use a?
579:  Well, they were called wash rags. They were not really rags but they were always called washrags.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  They were small.
interviewer:  What about to dry yourself off with?
579:  Towels.
interviewer:  And do you remember, um, what flour used to come in if people would buy about a hundred pounds of it?
579:  In {X} barrels, I think they weighed one hundred and ninety-six pounds. My father had one in the- what we called the store room at home.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  A barrel of flour, a fifty pound can of lard,
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  a wooden tub of butter, oh gosh. Pretty strong by the time it got down to the bottom
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  for the lack of refrigeration. And, uh, big slabs of bacon. Nothing like as good as modern bacon. You had to slice across it and then run your knife underneath it and leave the rind, which was the hogs hide. {NW} And we always had a slab of that hanging up in this store room and the store room always had bars on the window. That was to prevent colored folks from getting in and stealing your food. All old houses had barred windows in the storeroom.
interviewer:  Was the storeroom kept locked?
579:  We locked it, of course. Mother was very careful. When she was upstairs she locked the store room. Oh, it was obviously {X} We didn't pay them enough. It was outrageous. True, it didn't cost them as much to live then but still.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We didn't pay them enough.
interviewer:  Do you think most Southerners would agree with you about that? I mean you
579:  The better class, yes.
interviewer:  uh-huh Who do you think was- was the most, um, do- do you think the better class of people generally treated negroes fairly well except for not paying them enough? but
579:  I think that they treated them well. My mother used to tell me about that. Her mother would- if one of them was sick, she would go and take care of a negro just as much as if it were a white person.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Not all of them, but the better class took good care of their slaves.
interviewer:  mm-hmm So you think it was just the- the lower class of white people that that really were the most racist and most?
579:  There's an interesting side light on that I've had charge of our church records for fifty years or so and I've had access to old minute books and record books. And years and years ago, before the Civil War, of course, slaves were received into the Church under the names of their owners.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Well, say that, uh, a man owned a a male slave named Ben and his family name was Jones. Ben Jones, slave of Mr. Benjamin Jones, was received into the membership of this church upon profession of faith.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And they had uh their own place to sit in the Church. I think it was in the balcony in our old church, down there where the hotel is now. And, uh, the minutes showed that one time a negro applied for membership in the church and he was examined by the church board. For some reason, I don't know what, the Church board having charge of that sort of activity in our church is called the session.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The session is composed of the elders, of which I'm one, and the minister. And he- he appeared before the session and, of course, they questioned him about his convictions of what he believed why he felt impelled to join the church and they concluded that he was not yet ready for it. So, they did not receive him.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, whether he came back later and qualified it would take a great deal of searching to find that out; I didn't care that #1 much #
interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
579:  about it.
interviewer:  Would they used to have integrated churches?
579:  It had what?
interviewer:  They used to have integrated churches
579:  #1 No, no #
interviewer:  #2 way back? #
579:  indeed. I still don't like them; that's between you and me. {NW} uh No, they had their own churches. Mostly, which is still true, the ministers were illiterate.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They couldn't compose or deliver a really elevating sermon. They just hadn't had the education. Don't have the intelligence. But most of them love the churches. They like to get in there and, uh, get emotional about it and get to moaning and groaning and yelling and what not. Not as much of that as formerly. There's still a little especially at funerals.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I've gone to one or two of them. The, uh, porter in our ch- in our bank died and I went to the funeral. And it was- it was enlightening to me. They wanted or they- or rather, they liked they liked to have letters of praise for the deceased and tributes to them and so forth and, uh, this person here would have one and that one there would have one and they'd stand up and read them. I had one for our- our porter. He was really a superior negro. Much more intelligent than most of them. And I went into the back door of the church and gave it to an usher, I said "Give this to the preacher and ask him to read it at the proper time."
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I was petrified, I came back in about five minutes said "Mr. {B} we have a seat for you on the platform." So I had to go up there and read it myself. {NW} But they every now and then said "Yes, Lord" "Ain't it so, Lord" and so forth The- they like to let them go at this- at the funerals.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  There's not as much of that as formerly; they're a little more sophisticated now.
interviewer:  Yea. um If you wanted- in a- nowadays you'd have a kitchen sink and if if you wanted to turn on the water you'd turn on the?
579:  Faucet or spigot.
interviewer:  uh-huh Which- which word to people used to call it?
579:  Faucet.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about, um, out in the yard? What you could hook the hose up to, you know? You'd turn on the?
579:  The hose came much later. We'd have an outlet in the yard and hose. By that time of course, we had waterworks indoors.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But before that there was just the cistern, generally in the side yard. At our house, we had had a long handled pump I was talking about right at the edge of the back porch.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So, my older brothers could stand on it; it had a long handle. Both of them put their weight on it together and forced water up to the tank that fed the tin tub in the bathroom.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  But, generally, the the- the cistern was in the side yard and had a cistern house built over it, mostly covered with vines to keep the sun off and keep the water fairly cool.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And it was pretty cool, too, down there in that, uh, underground cistern.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What- what would you have nowadays for turning on the water outside?
579:  We would have, uh, a spigot or a faucet outside.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Part of the pipe.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um, on a say on a water barrel what you could turn and let the the water out would you call that a faucet or spigot too?
579:  Oh, you mean in the tub?
interviewer:  No, on- on a barrel.
579:  Oh, a barrel.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Very few persons had just barrels, they had cisterns. The barrel didn't last long enough.
interviewer:  Well, di- did you ever see a container though that had water in it and do do- you remember what the thing was called that you could turn and let the water out?
579:  We generally called it a faucet.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about the things that run around the barrel to hold the wood in place?
579:  Hoops.
interviewer:  And, something smaller than a a barrel that maybe nails used to come in?
579:  Keg.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and say nowadays if if the, um, light wasn't burning if the electric lamp wasn't burning you'd have to screw in a new?
579:  Still do, except for fluorescent #1 tubes. #
interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
579:  #1 #
interviewer:  #2 # What- what do you have to screw in?
579:  What?
interviewer:  What do you call that? You have to screw in a
579:  #1 So- #
interviewer:  #2 new? #
579:  The socket.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  They were threaded in on the bulb and you screw that in to the socket. Still do.
interviewer:  And, um, if you were carrying wash out to hang it out on the line you might carry out in a clothes?
579:  Basket. Big clothes basket.
interviewer:  uh-huh And if you were driving horses and wanted them to go faster you could hit them with a?
579:  Oh, I don't know anything about that.
interviewer:  Well What'd you call that, that you could?
579:  A whip.
interviewer:  mm-kay and nowadays if if you, um, went to the store and bought something the grocer would put it in a?
579:  Paper bag.
interviewer:  mm-kay Did you ever, um, what about something that flour used to come in, maybe 25 pounds of flour or so?
579:  The cloth sack.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And most housewives found some use for those sacks when they were empty, cleaning cloths or something like that.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What other kinds of sacks or bags did did there used to be maybe made out of rough material?
579:  No, those thour- those bags contained flour or sugar or a fairly closely wool one.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Oh, I guess you'd call them, uh, oh, domestic maybe.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and I'd {X} muslin, muslin.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about that, um, kind of bag or or sack that feed used to come in? That rough brown cloth, you know?
579:  We called it sacking.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or burlap.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear any other name for that? Tote sack or gunny sack or? croker sack?
579:  Both, gunny sack and croker sack.
interviewer:  uh-huh And say if if you wanted to take some corn to the mill to be ground do you remember the- what they would call the amount that they'd take at one time?
579:  Don't know about that, I never lived in the country.
interviewer:  Well, say if you went out and got as much wood as you could carry in both your arms and say you had a?
579:  An armful.
interviewer:  Mm-kay. Did you ever hear the expression a turn of wood?
579:  A turn?
interviewer:  Uh-huh
579:  No, the neighbors all called turns two thousand p- pounds. A turn.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's the only way I ever heard that used.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And if you opened a bottle and then wanted to close it back up, you'd stick in a?
579:  Well, that has changed over the years. It used to be a cork stopper.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Now, of course, they have, uh, caps that screw on.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Was just a cork or a cork stopper.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And, this is a musical instrument you'd blow like this.
579:  Mouth harp. The- the real name is harpsichord I think.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or or we just called them- there were also- no, there was another thing that required both hands. It was shaped like- rather pear shaped
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and had a flat blade in the center and the blade stuck out beyond the frame about an inch, I suppose. And I have seen boys
interviewer:  Playing it?
579:  Flip that thing with their fingers
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  and shape a tune wi- by the mouths, the way they shape their mouths.
interviewer:  hmm
579:  They called- we called it a Jew's harp. {NW} But it, uh, there were not many of those because not many boys were skillful enough to shape their mouths to make a recognizable tune.
interviewer:  {NW} um And you mentioned you had coal. What would they carry coal in?
579:  Hods or coal buckets.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Was that the same thing?
579:  Same thing.
interviewer:  Did you ever see a fancy thing that would sit by the stove to to hold the wood in? #1 You wel- {D: words} #
579:  #2 Lay them {D: words} # They are largely modern. We just had boxes for coal and wood.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Some of them were fancy, overlaid with brass and had lids on them. And, uh, in the early days, the coal buckets were swung in a frame and the the axle, the pivot- which didn't go all the way through, it was just sticking out one on each side- was near the top and you would tilt it to get some coal out of it to put on the fire.
interviewer:  hmm um And what runs from the stove to the chimney?
579:  A stove pipe.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Always a sort of blue-steel color.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And they were very durable, too. They lasted for years. They got full of soot sometime.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um, this is something you could use if you were going to move bricks or something heavy? It has a little wheel in front. Two handles.
579:  Truck.
interviewer:  Or-
579:  We call it a hand truck.
interviewer:  uh-huh Well, this has a- one wheel though, in front.
579:  Wheelbarrow.
interviewer:  mm-kay The- the truck and the wheelbarrow are different aren't they?
579:  Quite.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and, um, you mentioned, um, plows a little while back. Do you remember there being different names for different kinds of plows?
579:  Different what?
interviewer:  Plows. That you could use to plow up a field.
579:  Pile?
interviewer:  Plows. P-L-O
579:  Plows! Oh, they're all called plows. Although, later on some were called harrows
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and some were called disk harrows.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were quite different. There'd be a row of six or eight of them and then circles with sharp edges and they would have different functions from plows.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and You remember on- on a wagon did you were you- did you ever?
579:  If it was a two handled wagon it had a tongue
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  right in the center, one animal on each side. If it was for one horse or mule, it had tongues and, uh, the animal would be right between these two tongues. one on one side, one on the other, lightly built.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um, on the wagon wheel, um, on the inside, you know, you'd have the- the hub and then the spoke would come out from the hub and that'd fit into the?
579:  Rim.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Wh- Go ahead.
579:  The, uh, the wooden wheel- the wooden part of the wheel wa- was what the spokes fit into and that was covered with an iron tread.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Before they got rubber tires.
interviewer:  What did- the rim was wooden?
579:  It had to be because the wooden spokes had to fit into something that would hold them rigidly
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and they could cut slots all around this wooden rim for the spokes to fit into.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Then, the iron rim covering the wooden part
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  would be fastened with, uh, bolts or nails of some kind so it wouldn't come off.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever see, um, on- when the horse is hitched to a wagon the things that the traces hook onto?
579:  The- the traces oh they were fastened to a collar on a horse or mule and it came back to what was called the singletree.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  A singletree was a- a- approximately the same width, a little less, just long enough to fit between the two tongues.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and, uh, shafts rather, shafts and, uh, Yes, {NW} there was a singletree #1 at the back #
interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
579:  just beyond the seat of the driver
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  fastened in the middle with a pivot so it could turn as a horse or mule turned to go around a corner.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about when you had two horses?
579:  How many?
interviewer:  When you had two horses? You'd have
579:  Well, most of them that did use two horses or two mules, each one had a separate singletree.
interviewer:  And then what would hold the two single trees together? It would be the?
579:  Oh, uh, a cross member there. I don't know what they called it now. But they were pivoted on that.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Big bolts would go through the singletree and through this which was fastened securely to the shafts for a single one or or to this member that went across which was centered by the tongue.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And one tongue that went out. Oh, they called- they called the one for single animals shafts on each side
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and the tongue was for two animals.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of a doubletree or?
579:  #1 Yes #
interviewer:  #2 {X} #
579:  That's what I'm talking about now. If the animal was the only one drawing the- the vehicle the traces wait a minute now- is that- the side straps? What are they called? were fastened to a singletree.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  which would turn as needed and for a two team outfit there were two singletrees.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Each one about half the length, a- a doubletrees rather, about half the length of a singletree so that they could move independently {NW} as the horse went around the corner or what not.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Say, um, if there was a log across the road you'd say I tied a chain to it and I what it out of the way?
579:  A log across the #1 road? #
interviewer:  #2 Yes. # Say if there was a log bl- blocking the road you'd say I tied a chain to it and I?
579:  Oh, sometimes they dragged logs for something. I don't know what that was.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Something I never saw.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, talking about doing that, you'd say, um, they have what that log out of the road? They have? If they did that, how would- how would you say that? They have?
579:  They pull the log out of the way?
interviewer:  uh-huh or talking about dragging it you'd say they have?
579:  Well, there were some things they called a drag.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  What they did with them, I don't know. But I I know they have them; I've heard of them but I don't know what the function of them was.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Say if, uh, what would you say someone was doing if he was filling up his his wagon at the wood lot then driving back to his house and unloading it driving back again and filling it up? What would you say he was doing?
579:  Don't know about that.
interviewer:  Well, if someone had a load of wood in his wagon and was driving somewhere, you'd say that he was?
579:  Well, he would- he would just be delivering a load of wood.
interviewer:  uh-huh Would you say he was hauling wood or drawing wood or carting?
579:  Cordwood.
interviewer:  hmm?
579:  Cordwood. mm-hmm Or else stove wood.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Cordwood was a pretty uniform length and so was stove wood so it could fit into the fire box on the stove.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They were quite different.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever see something, um, an X-shaped frame that you could lay a log across, um, if you were going to chop it?
579:  No, never saw that.
interviewer:  What about something that carpenters use. It's it's built like sort of like that A-shaped frame. You'd need two of these and you'd you'd lay a board between them.
579:  Don't know. On- on most plantations in the old days they had what's called sleds.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Well, they were just that. Two runners and, uh, to save the expense of buying a wheeled vehicle and also because they had long lives and it had a platform between the two sled- uh, runners and they would haul things on the dirt roads on plantations on a sled.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  It served the purpose alright.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever see something called the sawbuck or sawhorse or?
579:  #1 Yes. #
interviewer:  #2 rack? #
579:  #1 #
interviewer:  #2 #
579:  It's made Where were you drawing that picture?
interviewer:  that?
579:  Well, now, if you, uh, if you turn this I don't know how to draw the, uh, the angle but the the sawhorses were made just like that and, uh, there was this piece at the top then down here there'd be cross members
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  but you look at this right flat in front, whereas in order to get the cross-eye that I'm talking about you would be facing the edges of these triangular things. And, uh, usually always the tops would extend beyond like that so you could put a board across there to saw in two.
interviewer:  So you'd just need one of those?
579:  No, you'd need two. One on each one. Uh, where the- where the legs crossed that made a notch.
interviewer:  Oh, #1 it's #
579:  #2 and #
interviewer:  sort of X-shaped where it crossed?
579:  Yes, the- the- the sawhorses would be X-shaped and the edge of it would go beyond so as to put a piece of wood
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  in there.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  #1 but #
interviewer:  #2 Oh, I see. #
579:  you looking at it from, uh, in front and I'm talking about it from the side.
interviewer:  mm-hmm I see.
579:  Same thing but from the side.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I wouldn't know how to draw it.
interviewer:  And a woman would- would fix her hair using a comb and a?
579:  Comb and brush.
interviewer:  And if she was going to use that she'd say she was going to what?
579:  #1 Comb her #
interviewer:  #2 {X} #
579:  hair, brush her hair.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  No change in that.
interviewer:  And you'd sharpen the straight razor using a?
579:  I use them. I have one for every day of the week. And you can use what's called a hone which is a form of stone. It has to be a different texture from an ordinary honing, uh, sharpening stone.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and a strop S-T-R-O-P not a strap but a strop.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  which generally has one side for beginning to sharpen the razor and the other side for finishing it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What else did- what did people have to sharpen their knives on?
579:  Butcher knives- not- I- I mean carving- carving knives were always provided with a long narrow stone and if you knew how to handle the thing properly you would rub it up and down both sides of the, uh, knife and sharpen it- the blade that way.
interviewer:  What would they call that stone?
579:  They just called it a sharpening stone.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear whet?
579:  What?
interviewer:  Whet rock or whet
579:  #1 Whet stone. #
interviewer:  #2 stone. #
579:  That's a little different. Uh, sometimes, they were grindstones and sometimes they were flat ones for finer work like sharpening pocket knives or or table knives, that would be a whet stone.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and they the other would be a grindstone and would be a disk of coarser stone and it'd be used to sharpen, uh, hatchets and axes and things like that and it sometimes was operated with a foot pedal.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and what would people- what would you put in a pistol?
579:  In what?
interviewer:  In a pistol.
579:  Iced tea or iced
interviewer:  #1 or #
579:  #2 water or #
interviewer:  No, a pistol that you shoot #1 with. #
579:  #2 Oh, # pistol
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Oh Well, back then in the Civil War days they used paper cartridges. I never saw one of them. But within my time nothing but metal cartridges with the powder inside and a bullet on the end.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and This is something that children play on. It's a board and it you lay it across the trestle.
579:  Uh, We call that a seesaw.
interviewer:  uh-huh If you saw some children playing on that you'd say they were doing what?
579:  Oh, just playing on the seesaw.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We also have what we call joggling boards. which were about, uh, fifteen feet long. and on uprights, not like that. Flat. They, uh, the side members did not cross each other like that. They were apart. And stout pieces ran across and the board fit inside of that and you'd get in the middle and jump up and down and get some pretty good exercise and fun out of it. They were called joggling boards.
interviewer:  The board was fixed down at both ends now?
579:  The board was what?
interviewer:  The board was fixed down at both ends?
579:  #1 It- it was #
interviewer:  #2 Not like the seesaw. #
579:  It was, uh, it was they slid they slid the board between these two upright pieces holders which were stout and well made and the board fit between two cross pieces at the top.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So, it wouldn't just fly off.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And they were always called joggling boards. We joggled on them.
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 up and # down and
interviewer:  That's kind of interesting. That, um, I didn't know they had those in in this area. I know they had them in Charleston which is- is where you said your
579:  #1 Oh yes, we had them when we were boys. #
interviewer:  #2 your mom was from. # Did most people in this that was pretty common in this in Vicksburg?
579:  #1 Yes #
interviewer:  #2 Joggling # #1 boards? #
579:  #2 Quite. # mm-hmm
interviewer:  Huh, that's interesting. Um, do you think your- your mother had them when she was little? or would you know?
579:  I shouldn't be surprised. I don't know.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But I can remember a good many when we were boys.
interviewer:  So- so it wasn't just your family? It was
579:  What?
interviewer:  Most of the the children in the neighborhood played with
579:  No, I wouldn't say that most of them had them. Sometimes, the yards were not large enough. Although, in some cases they were so large that cutting the grass in the summer time was quite a job.
interviewer:  {NW} What about something that you'd play on that'd, um, spin around? Take a board and
579:  I don't remember any of those. They came later. Merry-go-rounds, I believe they're called.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But there- there were very few of those.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And you could take a a tie a long rope to a tree limb and put a seat on that and make a?
579:  Swing.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Usually there were two ropes and a seat between them. Very popular. They still are at the Catholic Sister's school up here a block and a half away. That's one of the most popular things. They get in those seats and swing way up and they seem to enjoy it hugely. Sometimes, there's only one rope and the seat had a hole bored in the middle and the rope goes through that and is knotted or something.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But they prefer the ones with two ropes and a seat that doesn't require so much skill and balancing.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and the thing that- that people drive nowadays they don't drive horses and and wagons they- everybody has a?
579:  Car.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Any other name for car?
579:  No, just auto or automobile.
interviewer:  uh-huh And, if something was squeaking and you wanted to lubricate it, you'd say you had to?
579:  Oil or grease.
interviewer:  hmm?
579:  Oil or grease.
interviewer:  But what if you put the grease on it you'd say you?
579:  Oiled it or greased it.
interviewer:  mm-kay and um if, if your car needed, um, to be greased you'd you'd ask someone to take it in and and you'd ask them to do what to it?
579:  We'd take it to a service station and say give it a good lubricating job.
interviewer:  mm-kay or and if grease got all over your hands, you'd say your hands were all?
579:  Greasy.
interviewer:  mm-kay and what did you used to burn in lamps?
579:  Kerosene, although we usually called it coal oil.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever see a, um, someone make a lamp? themselves using a rag and a bottle? and some of this kerosene?
579:  Make a what?
interviewer:  A lamp. using a rag #1 and a bottle? #
579:  #2 No # I'm told that colored folks used to do that and here's an interesting little item on that. We had yellow fever here in the South oh, for years. I don't mean year after year but just crop up every now and then. And, uh, it was not known in those days that a certain species of mosquito transmitted yellow fever.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So, everybody who could just left town and went somewhere else where there were no mosquitoes and they stayed there until we got word from home that the yellow fever had died out. And why did it die out? Because the cold weather killed the mosquitoes.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They just knew that after two frosts say, or three the yellow fever died out.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And the colored folks would burn rags or paper, generally rags because it burned more slowly, in their yards and uh they didn't know that it was because it killed the mosquitoes. The smoke killed the mosquitoes or drove them away.
interviewer:  hmm
579:  and it was not until uh, uh, oh, a government doctor. {D: G- Gallus?} um Don't know who he was. He experimented with some soldiers in Florida or the canal zone. I think it was in the canal zone. And found out what caused yellow fever to be transmitted. It was this mosquito. He would bite a person who had it and then go and bite another one and then that person would have it. So, from that time on houses were screened and, uh, if they were not screened then mosquito bars were used. And, in time, they made a great deal of progress in coating ponds or ditches with some kind of, uh, generally some kind of petroleum based preparation
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  in which the mosquitoes could not breathe and live.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And that was when we began to control yellow fever.
interviewer:  hmm
579:  But up to that time we just knew that after two frosts or so it died out, but we didn't know it was because the mosquitoes were killed.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Where would you go?
579:  Where did we go? Well, we went to, uh, Danville, Kentucky, my college town one time and Elk Park, North Carolina another time and Clarksville, Tennessee another time.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And we just stayed until the mosquitoes- until the yellow fever died out.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  In one of our church minute books, eighteen forty something the minister preached a historical sermon one time. It was in the eighteen seventies that he preached it but he referred to this terrible yellow fever epidemic of eighteen forty-something. And he was very flowery about it. He said "for six long and weary weeks we bore the dead to their graves in an almost unending stream" uh, "the heads of families perished the eloquent orator and the learned lawyer the" can't remember- "the the maiden was cut down in the bloom of her youth and beauty the heads of households were swept away leaving weeping widows and desolate orphans." Now he- he spread himself on that. It was interesting. But at that time, nobody had any idea that mosquitoes were transmitting it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um this- this lantern or that, um, the colored people would make, did you ever hear that called a flambeau?
579:  No, a flambeau was for light as I understand it.
interviewer:  What- what was the flambeau like?
579:  Never saw one. But another name for it would be a torch.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Do you- wha- how do you- you picture that? You say it was for light?
579:  I just guess now that it was cloth or cotton fastened on the end of a pole or an iron rod moistened with kerosene, petroleum, some kind of oil that would burn
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and it was set fire and that would create some light. Flambeau is a French word I believe.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um and inside the tire of the car you have the inner?
579:  The what?
interviewer:  Inside the tire of the car you have the inner?
579:  Tube.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and if someone had just built a boat and they were going to put it in the water for the first time, you'd say they were going to?
579:  Launch it.
interviewer:  What different kinds of boats did people have for small boats for fishing?
579:  Usually skiffs or bateaux. Bateaux is a French word, too. B-A-T-E-A-U-X.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And, uh, most of them the large- all the larger ones had seats and oarlocks for two sets of oars.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  If you- especially if you got to the curb {D:Words} You would need two good stout oars. One to buck that curb.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The boats were usually flat-bottomed skiffs we called them. Later on, two pretty well-to-do men here built a- had built rather a steam launch. It had a little upright boiler and a steam engine in it. It was pretty large by that time And they would go up and down the river in that and go over to, uh, Bear Lake in Louisiana for hunting and fishing during season.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and uh I recall only one, the Rambler.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Some friends of mine that lived around the corner were interested in it {B} and mistook {B} Mister {B} son is down at - grandson- downstairs at the bank there.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But that was the only one I can recall around here.
interviewer:  mm-hmm This- this bateaux, was it pointed? at each end or?
579:  #1 No, square. #
interviewer:  #2 flat or? #
579:  A skiff was pointed at the front end but not at the back.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But bateaux was square at both ends.
interviewer:  Did you ever hear of a pirogue?
579:  Yes, I've heard of them only in use down in the Louisiana bayous. I don't think I ever say one.
interviewer:  mm-hmm say um if a child was just learning to dress themself the mother would bring in his clothes and tell him here?
579:  I don't know. Never had any children to dress {NW}
interviewer:  Well, would you say here are your clothes or here's you clothes or? #1 How would you say that? #
579:  #2 I don't #
interviewer:  #1 #
579:  #2 # Don't know. I suppose eventually said "now, it's time you learn to dress yourself."
interviewer:  uh-huh and say if- if you went in to a food store and they had a new kind of cheese and they wanted you to try it, they'd offer you a free?
579:  Very often they would cut off a piece and give it to you to try it.
interviewer:  and they'd call that a free what?
579:  um, um No. I think it's just called a sample.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But way back yonder when I was a small boy they used a French term, lagniappe. L-A-G-N-I-A-P-P-E. Which was something that they gave you as a gift in addition to what you bought.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And it got to be a custom, especially in Louisiana and particularly in New Orleans. People expected a lagniappe of some kind or other.
interviewer:  Did they use that term around here in Vicksburg?
579:  They used to when I was a small boy. the custom died out.
interviewer:  hmm
interviewer:  hmm #1 That's interesting. #
579:  #2 But in # New Orleans, oh, that was regular procedure.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Give 'em something for lagniappe.
interviewer:  uh-huh And what might a woman wear over her dress in the kitchen?
579:  A woman what?
interviewer:  What would a woman wear over her dress in the kitchen?
579:  Usually, nothing but an apron.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And to sign your name in ink you'd use a?
579:  Pen.
interviewer:  And to hold a baby's diaper in place?
579:  Safety pins.
interviewer:  And a dime is worth?
579:  A what?
interviewer:  A dime is worth?
579:  Ten cents.
interviewer:  mm-kay And
579:  And nickels became known as jitneys after a while.
interviewer:  Jitneys?
579:  J-I-T-N-E-Y.
interviewer:  hmm Wh- Well, how did they get that name?
579:  {NS} Can't imagine. We had street cars years and years ago and after they'd discontinued- well, before those we had horse drawn cars. They were not as large.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But after the street cars were discontinued, eh some men r- operated what they called jitneys around here. It was a form of public transportation which would could carry a few persons. Maybe uh one in the front seat and three in the back. The fare was pretty low and they called 'em jitneys.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Was the fare a nickel? Is that
579:  I don't remember. I think so. Must have been a nickel. Don't see how they made any money on it. Gasoline was not ex- as expensive then.
interviewer:  And say if a man was going to go to church on Sunday, what what would he wear?
579:  Generally, a blue suit.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And sometimes and very frequently blue serge, S-E-R-G-E, suit which, in time, grew shiny and slick on the seats of the trousers. {NW}
interviewer:  Th- this used to be a three part suit, didn't it?
579:  The what?
interviewer:  Used to be a three part suit, didn't it? Three piece suit?
579:  Coat, vest, and trousers. There are still some.
interviewer:  uh-huh Is there any other name for trousers?
579:  Pants.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Britches.
interviewer:  And say the if a man was out, um, working around the, uh, barn or working outside he might wear something, it'd come up all the way?
579:  Overalls.
interviewer:  uh-huh And say if you went outside without your coat then you got cold and you wanted it you might tell someone would you go inside the house and what me my coat?
579:  Put on a coat or a sweater or a jacket.
interviewer:  Or if it's inside you your coats inside, you'd ask someone else to go go inside and what me my coat?
579:  Uh i- uh, if you were outside you want to send somebody inside?
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  You just tell 'em what you wanted and where to look for it. #1 Coat #
interviewer:  #2 Okay #
579:  jacket, sweater, what it might be. Although, the term jacket is comparatively new.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And say if, um, if you came home from from work and, um, say a man came home from work and there was a a package there, um, You ask where did it come from? Uh, his wife might say well, the delivery boy what it here?
579:  Usually, the delivery boy'd bring it from a store.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Grocery store, clothing store, what have you. Hardware store.
interviewer:  So, she'd say well, um, this afternoon the delivery boy?
579:  Most likely she would say, uh, say Jones's Jones's grocery store sent it or Smith's hardware store or uh
interviewer:  Or talking about bringing it, you'd say they what it here?
579:  Never used the term fetched. They'd say bring.
interviewer:  mm-hmm How how would you say it? You'd say this afternoon they what it?
579:  Brought it.
interviewer:  hmm?
579:  Brought it.
interviewer:  mm-kay And um and or another way of saying that, you'd say they have what this package here? They have? Using
579:  Oh, you're speaking of of the person who sent it or the person who brought it?
interviewer:  Well #1 talking about #
579:  #2 Well #
interviewer:  bringing it, you'd say they have what it here?
579:  Brought it. They have brought it here. They brought it here or have brought it here it just
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Colored folks would say toted.
interviewer:  Wh- white people would never say tote?
579:  Oh, yes, some of the, uh, less educated ones.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about fetch?
579:  About what?
interviewer:  What about fetch? Fetch?
579:  Fetch. Seldom used. Mostly in the north and east. #1 Mainly in #
interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
579:  the east. We al- almost never use it down here.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And you'd say, well, that coat won't fit me this year but last year it what perfectly?
579:  It fit perfectly.
interviewer:  #1 And #
579:  #2 Or # we might say fitted.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And say if a man had an important interview and his clothes weren't in very good shape, he'd go out and buy a?
579:  Well, he'd hardly do that just for one interview even when clothing cost less. He'd probably, uh, put on his Sunday suit.
interviewer:  uh-huh Well, if he had just bought it, it would be a brand?
579:  Brand new.
interviewer:  What?
579:  Brand new suit.
interviewer:  uh-huh And if you stuff a lot of things in your pockets, it makes them?
579:  Bulgy.
interviewer:  And you say, well that shirt used to fit me until I washed it and it?
579:  Shrank.
interviewer:  And you'd say every shirt I've washed has?
579:  Has shrunk.
interviewer:  And I hope this new shirt won't?
579:  Not shrink.
interviewer:  And if a woman liked to put on good clothes, she'd say she likes to?
579:  Dress up.
interviewer:  Would you say that about a man?
579:  Yes.
interviewer:  What if she likes to spend a lot of time in front of the mirror and straightening her hair and putting on make up?
579:  Primping.
interviewer:  Well, would you say that about a man?
579:  What?
interviewer:  Would you say that about a man?
579:  No.
interviewer:  Okay. And what do people use to carry their coins in?
579:  Purses.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And something that a woman might wear around her wrist?
579:  Bracelet.
interviewer:  And around her neck?
579:  Necklace.
interviewer:  Or, talking about beads you'd call that a?
579:  Well, they would mention beads, yes.
interviewer:  You'd call that a what of beads, a?
579:  String of beads.
interviewer:  mm-kay And what did mean used to wear to hold up their trousers?
579:  Galluses. #1 {NW} #
interviewer:  #2 Okay #
579:  No, suspenders.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  But, uh, again, the persons who were not so well educated would call them galluses.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about the last thing that you put on a bed? You know the fancy cover?
579:  Counterpane.
interviewer:  How was what was that like? Was that made or?
579:  Well, it's called a spread today.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about something that would be put on the bed for warmth? A lot of little things sewn together and?
579:  Quilt or #1 a #
interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
579:  comfort.
interviewer:  Are those the same thing now?
579:  Quilts are quite different from a comfort. They are or used to be made of uh odd pieces of cloth that women sewed together but they didn't have anything like the warmth that a down filled comfort or wool filled comfort has.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And at the head of the bed, you put your head on a?
579:  Pillow.
interviewer:  Do you remember seeing something about twice as long as a pillow?
579:  About what?
interviewer:  About twice as long as a pillow?
579:  Bolster.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That stretched a whole length of the top of the bed.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear the expression around here it went plum across the bed or clean across the bed or?
579:  Both.
interviewer:  What- would you use either?
579:  Oh, I don't know which was most used. Clean, I guess.
interviewer:  How how would people use those expressions?
579:  What?
interviewer:  How would gi- give me examples of how they'd use those expressions?
579:  Well, the bolster stretches clean across the top of the bed.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about plum? Would?
579:  It would most likely be clean instead of plum.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What you heard both around here?
579:  Yes. Mostly clean.
interviewer:  Would you use that word yourself?
579:  I guess so. Yes, I've used it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And say if you had a lot of company in over and didn't have enough beds for everyone. For the children, you might make a? Down on the floor, you'd make a?
579:  Well, there's a term trundle bed but I don't think I've ever heard it used. Usually a cot.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, something I mean just directly on the floor by spreading the quilts on the floor.
579:  That'd be a pallet I guess but I've never heard it used around here.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Where where did you hear the word?
579:  What?
interviewer:  Where did you hear that word?
579:  Pallet?
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  In books.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And talking about, um, land, you might say, well, we expect to get a big crop from that field because the soil is very?
579:  Fertile.
interviewer:  mm-kay And what different types of land are there?
579:  What?
interviewer:  What different types of land are there?
579:  Sandy loam. L-O-A-M. Buckshot. Miserable stuff.
interviewer:  Is sandy loam good?
579:  Yes. That's about all I can think of. Buckshot and sandy loam.
interviewer:  What about gumbo?
579:  Oh, gumbo! Certainly oh. That's dreadful. If you're if you get caught in a in a gumbo section of road, that is, if you did get caught in the old days before they were paved, sometimes your wheels would just spin around and you'd stay there.
interviewer:  {NW}
579:  Very sticky and slippery and
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  not fertile land anyway.
interviewer:  What's the difference between gumbo and buckshot?
579:  I don't know. Pretty much alike I think.
interviewer:  Neither of them is much good for growing anything?
579:  What?
interviewer:  Neither of them is much good for growing things?
579:  I'm not enough of a farmer to answer that. I from what I've heard people say over the years they prefer sandy loam to either of #1 the others. #
interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm #
579:  One of 'em, I think buckshot, would get into very hard cakes if there wasn't much rain and I just don't see how any tender young plant could work through those cakes of hard mud.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What would you call, um, the flat land maybe along a stream?
579:  Uh, flat land along a stream?
interviewer:  mm-hmm #1 Or a river. #
579:  #2 A bottom. #
interviewer:  Hmm?
579:  A bottom.
interviewer:  mm-kay What about a a grass land that uh, well, a a field that's good for clover or alfalfa, something like that? Just a a grassy piece of land?
579:  We call it pasture land.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about meadow or prairie? {D: Dago}
579:  Meadow is very seldom used down this way. It's generally a pasture.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um land that's got water standing in it most of the time?
579:  {NW} Well, it might be called swampy land or boggy land.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Does does a swamp have trees growing in it?
579:  Yes, mostly cypress trees.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And some others. But, usually, second growth or third growth cypress
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  grows where water is standing almost constantly.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What would you call it down around, um, the sea? Sort of uh, where you have salt hay, you know?
579:  Near the sea you #1 say? #
interviewer:  #2 uh-huh # Wet wet ground near near the gulf maybe?
579:  There's some grasses that grow down there and palmettos.
interviewer:  Would you call that a swamp or marsh or?
579:  Both. Mostly swamp.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And say if you were draining a swamp, the things that you'd dig to get that water out you'd call that a?
579:  Ditch or sometimes a drainage ditch.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And something along the side of the road to carry the water off?
579:  A ditch again.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about if if you had had kind of a a heavy rain {NW} and the rain water had had cut a little sort of a cut a a channel you'd?
579:  We'd call it a a wash or a gully. If it's very large, we call it a gully.
interviewer:  mm-hmm If it's small it's a wash?
579:  Maybe call it a wash, yes.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and If you had some water flowing along you'd call that a?
579:  You mean alongside a road for example?
interviewer:  Mm well, just anywhere just out in a field just it's from well, you could have a river. It'd be pretty big.
579:  Uh we'd call it a, oh, sometimes a creek. but usually a bayou.
interviewer:  What's the difference? or is there a difference?
579:  Don't know exactly. I always think of a creek as having clear water in it. A bayou, never.
interviewer:  What do you mean clear water? You mean a a bay the water's been standing in a bayou?
579:  No mud in it. Clear water. There's very little of that in this country.
interviewer:  Very little clear water?
579:  Uh clear water. Mostly b- muddy water.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What are some of the, um, anything smaller than a creek? Or bayou?
579:  Can't think of anything, no.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What are some of the names of some of the streams in this area?
579:  Well, we have the Big Black River which is neither big nor black. It's muddy. Winds a great deal. Originates up here in the northeastern part of the state somewhere and it empties into the Mississippi about, uh forty miles below Vicksburg. And the Yazoo River, an Indian name, which came into the Mississippi, or was led into it by the U-S engineers, and flows past Vicksburg right now for the reason that in eighteen seventy-six the river in its uh meanderings would cut across instead of going around a long bend like that, it cut across. General Grant tried to do that when he was besieging Vicksburg but he didn't make it in eighteen sixty-three. But, in eighteen seventy-six it cut through there. Well, that left Vicksburg on a part of that bend right here that filled up with mud in the low water stage and steamboats couldn't come up here. So we had uh a floating wharf board down here in the river
interviewer:  #1 You had a what? #
579:  #2 And they had to go # there. And they would go through the cutoff and skip this part that used to be the old bed
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 because # it there was not enough water in there to float a boat. I walked across the old bed of the river right down there many time over to what we call Centennial Island which was left after the cutoff flowed around the bend and left that a island sticking out into the old river.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And, uh, in high water, steam boats, and we used to have as many as, uh, I read about it in the paper every now and then, many as six coming in in one day right at the city front there.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But, that was before the cut off. But in high water they could still come there and that big boat down there, the, uh {D: sprig} have you seen that? An enormous tow boat formerly owned by one of the standard oil companies. It pushed huge barges of, uh, barrels of oil and tanks of oil and what not and it was, uh, found obsolete after diesel engines were developed.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  So it's tied up down there they gave it to the city. It's now it has a now h- now has a restaurant on it {NS} and is used as a theater by the little theater for presenting a melodrama.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Called gold in the hills. Very entertaining.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What, um, what do you call that place where the boats stop? When the freight's unloaded?
579:  We call it a landing.
interviewer:  #1 mm-kay #
579:  #2 And they # call that the city landing down there. It's paved now.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What what about something smaller than a river? What, um, are there different what are some of the names of some of the creeks? or bayous in this area?
579:  Let's see, there's Chickasaw Bayou and, uh, let's see, the Sunflower River, well, that's larger than the Yazoo.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  uh Bayou Pierre down near Port Gibson thirty miles south. That's a little smaller than the Big Black. uh Oh, yeah, up north of Vicksburg about ten miles they have what they call Skillikalia Creek. But that country is a little stony. Some of that Vicksburg limestone I was talking about.
interviewer:  mm
579:  The water is clearer. That must be an Indian name. Skillikalia. S-K-I-L-L-I-A-H S-K-I L-K-I-L L- I-A-H. Skillikalia, that's about it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And uh well, let's see, Glass Bayou. Don't know how it got that name. Let's see, the Sunflower, the Tallahatchie River the Sunflower River, both of them are larger than the Big Black River.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  None of them is right in the immediate neighborhood. Many of 'em have Indian names.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Is, uh, you mentioned a port. Is a port the same as a landing?
579:  Is what?
interviewer:  You mentioned Port Gibson. Is a port the same as a landing?
579:  {NW} Well, Port Gibson {D: may on the r-} may have been on the river once but it changes its channel so often that it hasn't been on the river in a long long time. I don't know whether that was ever on the river or not. It might have been. Otherwise I #1 don't know #
interviewer:  #2 uh-huh #
579:  why it'd have been called Port Gibson. A very old town. They've had schools and there not colleges, schools oh, for more than a hundred years.
interviewer:  mm-hmm But is what's the difference between a port and a landing? Or is there any difference?
579:  Yes. A landing is a very simple affair. It's any place where a boat could pull up and put a gangplank ashore.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And a port is, well, we have a port up here. at the north end of what used to be the river. and is now accommodating the Yazoo, diverted through by the U-S engineers. But that's quite a sophisticated affair.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  They have storage eleva- uh, storage spaces and elevators. and, uh, uh, a towboat factory and, uh, oh, a number of different uh industries up there. That's
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's much more sophisticated than a landing.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and If you had a stream of water that was flowing along and suddenly it dropped off and went on over you'd call that a?
579:  We have mighty few of those here. There's one in the Yazoo River. About ten miles north of us. That limestone I don't know what they call it, falls, I guess. But we have mighty few of them here, mighty few.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and To open the door, you take hold of the door?
579:  Sometimes we say shut it.
interviewer:  For the door the thing you turn on the door, the door?
579:  Well the handle.
interviewer:  Or?
579:  Knob, knob.
interviewer:  uh-huh Did you ever use that word knob talking about land? To mean something like a hill or?
579:  Never heard of it. Or if you get up into uh Kentucky for example they have low mountains they call knobs.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  None in this country.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What would you call the rocky side of the mountain that drops off real sharp?
579:  A precipice.
interviewer:  Or, say someone jumped over the #1 the? #
579:  #2 pr- # precipice.
interviewer:  Or the overhanging thing would be the?
579:  I think we'd call it a precipice. We don't have 'em in this country.
interviewer:  uh-huh And say, um, what different types of roads do you have around here?
579:  Roads?
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Asphalt. Concrete. Years ago, we had nothing but dirt roads and gravel roads but, oh, its been many years since we replaced those.
interviewer:  What did they use in the asphalt roads?
579:  They are the dark colored roads you see without any seams in them.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  And, uh, they are easily repaired. Not quite so durable as a concrete road. But they've improved the quality of the material they put into them a great deal. They last a pretty long time. They're quiet, quieter as the car rolls along than a concrete road would be.
interviewer:  mm-hmm um what would you call a, um, little road that goes off the main road?
579:  {D: Excuse me while I yawn.} A side road.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and what about a road that has a fence or trees on both sides of it?
579:  Well, in some parts of the country they would call that a lane. But that's seldom used down here.
interviewer:  #1 Well #
579:  #2 A lane # is generally short leading perhaps from the main road to somebody's property.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And a road in um town would be called a?
579:  A road what?
interviewer:  A road in town would be called a?
579:  Street.
interviewer:  And along the side of the street you have? For people to walk on?
579:  Sidewalks.
interviewer:  You know, there's a a strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street.
579:  No, because the sidewalk is strictly for pedestrians.
interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
579:  #2 And it's # it runs along the edge of a street.
interviewer:  Well, sometimes there's a some grass growing between the sidewalk and the street. #1 It's- #
579:  #2 Grass # plot.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and say if you went to someone's house and knocked on the door and no one answered you'd say, well I guess he's not?
579:  At home.
interviewer:  And, um, if someone was walking in your direction, you'd say he's coming straight?
579:  Walking in what?
interviewer:  In your direction. You'd say he was walking straight? What?
579:  Toward me.
interviewer:  hmm? What was that?
579:  T-O-W-A-R-D. Toward me.
interviewer:  uh-huh and if you went into town and happened to see a friend of yours that you hadn't counted on seeing you'd say, oh, I just happened to run?
579:  I'd say what?
interviewer:  I just happened to run?
579:  Into.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Jim, we'll say.
interviewer:  uh-huh And if a child's given the same name that her mother has you'd say they named the child?
579:  Well, that's a little confusing. For example, I have a sister-in-law named {D: Daniella} and sh- she's always been called Danny. She has a daughter named Danny who has a daughter named Danny and her sister has a daughter named Danny. All of 'em {D: Daniella} is shortened to Danny.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  So we just have to sort of {D: vary everything else} just a little bit in a case like that.
interviewer:  uh-huh Well, you'd say say they named she named her daughter?
579:  Named what?
interviewer:  You'd say that the daughter was named? #1 What? #
579:  #2 Dan- # Danny.
interviewer:  What her mother?
579:  Her mother's named Danny too. {NW}
interviewer:  Would you say they named the girl from her mother or? After her mother? Or?
579:  After.
interviewer:  Uh-huh
579:  We don't say named for, we say named after.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  May not be right, but that's what we say.
interviewer:  {NW} and If you were walking along and an animal jumped out and scared you, you'd say I picked up a?
579:  You're walking along and what?
interviewer:  And an animal jumped out and scared you. You'd say I I picked up a?
579:  We wouldn't use that term, picked up with. We'd say a dog ran out and scared me.
interviewer:  And then I I did what? I picked up a?
579:  Well, we'd say a rock but that's not the proper term. A rock is a huge thing
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We'd pick up a stone.
interviewer:  And and I what it at #1 it? #
579:  #2 And # throw it.
interviewer:  Anything you'd say besides throw?
579:  Anything what?
interviewer:  Any other expression people would use besides I threw it at him?
579:  No. Some people say shy and some say heave but we don't.
interviewer:  mm-hmm and something that people drink for breakfast?
579:  Coffee.
interviewer:  And if you wanted some coffee um You'd say I want to go what some coffee?
579:  I want a cup of coffee.
interviewer:  Well, if there wasn't any ready, you'd say I have to go?
579:  Have to go?
interviewer:  Have to go what some coffee? If there if the coffee hasn't been prepared, you'd say I have to?
579:  I have to go now.
interviewer:  Have to go what some coffee? Say I have to go cook some coffee or? boil some coffee or?
579:  Oh well usually if the coffee was not ready you'd say I can't wait I've got to go now.
interviewer:  uh-uh Well, what expression would you use? Would you say I have to make some coffee? or boil some coffee or cook some coffee?
579:  You mean the person who's going to serve it to you?
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Yes. They would say make.
interviewer:  Okay And tell me about putting milk in your coffee. You'd say some people like it?
579:  Black.
interviewer:  What?
579:  Black.
interviewer:  What's black coffee?
579:  Without any milk or milk substitute.
interviewer:  uh-huh And you said some people will eat corn flakes dry but most people like them?
579:  With milk or cream.
interviewer:  mm-kay and you'd say this morning I what breakfast at seven oh clock?
579:  I what?
interviewer:  This morning I what breakfast at seven oh clock?
579:  Ate breakfast.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Ate breakfast.
interviewer:  and yesterday at that time I had already?
579:  Eaten breakfast.
interviewer:  And tomorrow I will?
579:  Will eat breakfast.
interviewer:  And something that people eat for breakfast made out of ground up corn?
579:  Made out of what?
interviewer:  Ground up corn.
579:  There isn't much of that but we have corn flakes well grits, of course, grits.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  We've eaten grits around here ever since I can remember. Scores and scores of years.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Makes a good breakfast dish too if you have enough butter in it.
interviewer:  What about something that, um, that'd take the corn and soak it in lye water?
579:  We call that, uh, hominy.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Sometimes it's called big hominy. Sometimes grits are called hominy.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  But usually just grits.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about something that's white. It's made from inside of a grain and it grows in wet places. It grows in Louisiana a lot.
579:  Made from the inside of what?
interviewer:  A grain. It's a it's a #1 starch. #
579:  #2 Mush? # Mush is made with a meal #1 corn meal. #
interviewer:  #2 uh-huh # Well, no, this is its something its real common it's it's white and it grows in Louisiana.
579:  It's a breakfast dish?
interviewer:  Oh no, no, its not a breakfast dish. It's just something people eat. It's a starchy food.
579:  I don't know.
interviewer:  It starts with an R.
579:  What?
interviewer:  It starts with an R.
579:  R?
interviewer:  uh-huh It's real it's real common. People in China and Japan eat it a lot.
579:  Can't think what it is. mm Begins with R. What time is it?
interviewer:  I'm not sure.
579:  Whoop, twenty minutes after five. We'll be locked in here the first thing we know. I gotta be going anyway.
interviewer:  Well, do you want to wait until this tape runs out or it's it shouldn't be too much longer
579:  Well how much longer do you think it'll take?
interviewer:  Probably about ten more minutes.
579:  Ten more minutes? #1 Yes. #
interviewer:  #2 I think so. #
579:  Well, I can't imagine what that i- R. Begins with R. A white
interviewer:  I was #1 thinking of #
579:  #2 Does it # come from corn?
interviewer:  No. I was thinking of of rice.
579:  What?
interviewer:  Rice.
579:  Rice.
interviewer:  Do they grow that around here much?
579:  Very little rice grown around here. I don't know of any. Up the delta, some is grown. Around Greenville. Um I don't know. Can't think of it.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Uh, well rice is what I was thinking of.
579:  What?
interviewer:  Rice was what I was thinking of.
579:  Oh. Rice. Oh yes, we eat a great deal of rice around here. My father was a South Carolinian and we had rice every day.
interviewer:  Oh really? um, Say if you were real thirsty, you might say I you I went over to the sink and poured myself a?
579:  Glass of water.
interviewer:  Then you say the glass fell off the sink and?
579:  Broke.
interviewer:  So you'd say somebody has what that glass?
579:  Somebody has what?
interviewer:  Somebody has what that glass?
579:  Broken.
interviewer:  mm-kay And you'd say but I didn't mean to?
579:  Drop it.
interviewer:  And? Drop it and?
579:  Break it.
interviewer:  mm-kay And, if you were real thirsty, you might say I what a glass of water?
579:  Swallowed.
interviewer:  Or I?
579:  You might say guzzled.
interviewer:  mm-kay um, or, if someone was thirsty you might say would you like something to?
579:  Drink.
interviewer:  And you'd say, um, So he what?
579:  Drank.
interviewer:  And You might ask me, how much have you?
579:  Drunk.
interviewer:  And if you wanted your dog to attack another dog, what would you tell him?
579:  Sic 'em.
interviewer:  mm-kay And what would you call a mixed breed dog?
579:  A what kind of dog?
interviewer:  Mixed breed. You don't know what #1 kind. #
579:  #2 Mongrel. #
interviewer:  What's that?
579:  M-O-N-G-R-E-L. M-O-N-G-R-E-L. Mongrel, mongrel dog.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about a a little noisy small dog?
579:  Uh, oh now, what's the expression? Oh Yes I stay away from dogs as much as I can um
interviewer:  Do you ever hear feist?
579:  Hmm?
interviewer:  Feist. Did you ever hear that?
579:  Well, that's mostly Well, the yes. Uh F-E-I-S-T, feist.
interviewer:  mm-hmm {NW} #1 What's #
579:  #2 I don't # know what exactly what a feist is uh. It's a mixed breed for one thing, I think.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about, um, any other kinds of dogs who what about a worthless dog? Just #1 That's- #
579:  #2 What # kind of dog?
interviewer:  Just a worthless dog.
579:  Curs.
interviewer:  mm-kay And, say if you had a mean dog. You might say yesterday my dog?
579:  Bit a man.
interviewer:  mm-kay And then the person had to go to the doctor after he got?
579:  Bitten.
interviewer:  Mm-kay. Would you ever say after he got dog bit? Do they use that expression dog bit?
579:  That's not proper. Dog bitten. It's used though.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Dog bit.
interviewer:  What about, um, tell me about cows, what do they call the male?
579:  The milk?
interviewer:  The male cow.
579:  Bull.
interviewer:  mm-kay Was that word nice to use when you were growing up?
579:  Is what?
interviewer:  Was that word nice to use when you were growing up?
579:  I think so. You had to distinguish between the bull and the cow.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What would call a little cow when its first born?
579:  I don't know whether a heifer. I think a heifer is always a female.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Pretty sure that's right.
interviewer:  What about the male?
579:  Don't know. What they called the the young bulls. I don't know what they called 'em.
interviewer:  mm-hmm Or just a young cow whether male or female. It'd just be called a?
579:  Well, one time I referred to, when I was down at Port Gibson to school, to a male heifer and one of the boys who knew something about cattle roared with laughter. He said a heifer's always a female.
interviewer:  mm-hmm So I don't know what they call the young bulls. mm-hmm Well, just, um, if you're just a a talking about cows the baby is called the?
579:  Calves.
interviewer:  uh-huh And if you had you had a cow that was expecting a calf, you'd say the cow was going to?
579:  Oh, I don't know. There's a term for that, I don't know what it is. Drop a calf maybe.
interviewer:  mm-kay And what did they call the male horse?
579:  Male what?
interviewer:  Horse.
579:  Just a horse. Or eh uh sometimes a stallion.
interviewer:  mm-hmm What about the female?
579:  A mare.
interviewer:  mm-kay And you'd say everyone around here likes to what horses?
579:  Swap horses. #1 Ride #
interviewer:  #2 {X} #
579:  horses.
interviewer:  mm-kay And you'd say last year he what his horse every day?
579:  Did what?
interviewer:  Last year he
579:  Rode every day?
interviewer:  mm-kay But I have never?
579:  Ridden. {NS}
interviewer:  And if you couldn't stay on, you'd say I fell?
579:  Off.
interviewer:  And A little child went to sleep in bed and woke up and found himself on the floor in the morning. He'd say I guess I must have?
579:  Fallen out of bed.
interviewer:  mm-kay And the things that they put on the horse's feet? You call those?
579:  Horseshoes.
interviewer:  And the parts of the horse's feet you put them on?
579:  The what?
interviewer:  The parts of the horses feet you put the
579:  Hooves.
interviewer:  What's that?
579:  H double O-V-E-S. Hoofs or hooves.
interviewer:  mm-kay And just one of those. You'd call the horse's?
579:  H- hoof.
interviewer:  mm-kay Did you ever see a a game played with something like horseshoes only, um, it was played with rings instead of horseshoes.
579:  Yes. Not often though. That takes too much skill.
interviewer:  Do you remember what that game was called?
579:  Not quoits, I guess. Q-U-I Q-U-O-I-T-S, quoits.
interviewer:  Did people call it that around here?
579:  {D: You} Very, very s- see that I think they call them quoits. Q-U-O-I-T-S.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  It's not so hard with, uh, horse shoes. I don't know much about the game. But if you hit the iron pin at all you've got something. But getting a a hoop over a pin, that's something else. #1 Extremely #
interviewer:  #2 {X} #
579:  difficult to do.
interviewer:  Uh-huh What, um, you mentioned people that had sheep. What did people raise sheep for?
579:  For wool and hides.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And what did you call the male sheep?
579:  A ram.
interviewer:  And the female?
579:  Ewe. E-W-E.
interviewer:  mm-hmm And tell me about the hogs. When they're first born, you call them?
579:  Is it gilts? G-I-L-T-S?
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Piglets. #1 I think #
interviewer:  #2 {X} #
579:  it's G-I-L-T-S, gilts.
interviewer:  uh-huh. What about the the female? When she has pigs, she's a?
579:  Sow.
interviewer:  And the male?
579:  Boar, B-O-A-R.
interviewer:  uh-huh and If you had a, um, pig and you didn't want him to grow up to be a boar, what would you say you were going to do to him?
579:  Slaughter it.
interviewer:  Or you're not going to kill him, but you want to?
579:  Slaughter it.
interviewer:  Well, uh you could say castrate. Yeah.
579:  Oh, it doesn't oh I see what you mean. Castrate, yes.
interviewer:  Is there any other term for castrate?
579:  If there is, I don't know it.
interviewer:  Uh-huh. What would they call him then, after he'd been castrated?
579:  I don't know.
interviewer:  mm-kay And the stiff hairs that a hog has on his back?
579:  Bristles.
interviewer:  And the teeth?
579:  Tusks.
interviewer:  mm-kay and what you put the food in for the hog?
579:  Trough.
interviewer:  And if you had three of four of those, you'd say you had three or four?
579:  Troughs.
interviewer:  And what what would you call a hog that's grown up wild?
579:  Well, they have wild boars in foreign countries.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Uh, but I don't know what they uh, term they apply to a domestic hog that's grown up wild.
interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Don't know.
interviewer:  Say if it was time to feed your stock and do the chores, you'd say that it was? What time? Would you call that chore time or fodder time or feeding time #1 time? #
579:  #2 Oh # that's outside my province. I don't know a thing about that.
interviewer:  Okay. Um, and what if you were going to feed the hens and turkeys and geese? What general name would you have for those animals?
579:  We just say feeding.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  I better open that door just in case the cleaners think this room is empty.
interviewer:  And a hen on a nest of eggs would be called a?
579:  Setting hen.
interviewer:  And, where would you keep hens?
579:  What?
interviewer:  Where would you keep hens?
579:  Where would you keep 'em?
interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  A shed, I guess. I d- I don't know much about that sort of thing
interviewer:  What about a small place just for the mother? #1 Hen. #
579:  #2 Pen. #
interviewer:  Or a did you ever hear of a
579:  A pen.
interviewer:  Or a coop or coop?
579:  Oh, a coop, yes. We call 'em coop. It ought to be coop but we call them coop.
interviewer:  mm-kay and the noise that a calf makes when it's being weaned you'd say, the calf began to?
579:  What was that?
interviewer:  The noise that a calf makes when it's being weaned. You say
579:  A cow?
interviewer:  A yeah a calf.
579:  A cat, mew.
interviewer:  No, a
579:  A cat?
interviewer:  A calf.
579:  Spell that.
interviewer:  C-A-L-F.
579:  A calf. Moo.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Or bleat.
interviewer:  uh-huh What about the cow? What does
579:  The cow moos.
interviewer:  uh-huh and the horse?
579:  Neighs.
interviewer:  Or, the gentle noise.
579:  What?
interviewer:  The gentle noise that a horse makes.
579:  Whinny.
interviewer:  mm-kay And when you're eating chicken, you know there's a bone that goes like this.
579:  Wishbone.
interviewer:  mm-kay any stories about that? Pulling it apart?
579:  Oh there wa- is a legend that if one person grasps one end and one the other the one getting either the short end or the lo- the long end, I don't know which, is going to have good luck.
interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Nothing to it.
interviewer:  um, did you ever hear anyone call a cow?
579:  Only on T-V. {NW}
interviewer:  Okay. But did you ever do you know what you say to a cow to make her stand still so you can milk her?
579:  I certainly don't.
interviewer:  What about a calf?
579:  You mean calling a cat? #1 Kitty kitty #
interviewer:  #2 A calf. #
579:  kitty. #1 Huh? #
interviewer:  #2 Cow. #
579:  Call it? Calling a cow?
interviewer:  Yeah.
579:  I don't know.
interviewer:  Well, what about a to get a mule or horse to turn left or right?
579:  Well, now, when they had oxen it was gee and haw.
interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  But I don't know about mules and horses.
interviewer:  Did you ever hear anyone call a horse?
579:  No, I think not.
interviewer:  uh-huh What would you say to a horse to get him started?
579:  Get up
interviewer:  mm-kay And to stop him?
579:  Whoa.
interviewer:  And
579:  W-H-O-A.
interviewer:  To make him back up?
579:  Back up.
interviewer:  Did you ever hear anyone call hogs?
579:  Only on T-V.
interviewer:  What about sheep?
579:  Never.
interviewer:  Chickens?
579:  No.
interviewer:  Um, say if you wanted to get the horses ready to go somewhere. You'd say, I want to? Before you hitch them up, you have to?
579:  Test them.
interviewer:  And
579:  Harness them.
interviewer:  mm-kay and when you're driving a horse what do you hold in your hand?
579:  The reins. R-E-I-N-S.
interviewer:  When he's when he's hitched to a a wagon, you call it the reins?
579:  Get when he gets what?
interviewer:  When he's hitched to a wagon you call it the reins?
579:  If you're riding it's still the reins.
interviewer:  Uh-huh If, I mean if if the horse is pulling a wagon. you've got him with the reins?
579:  Yes.
interviewer:  uh-huh What are your feet in, if you're riding on him?
579:  What do you feed him?
interviewer:  What are your feet in?
579:  If you're riding, in stirrups.
interviewer:  mm-kay and if you're plowing, you know, the trenches that a plow cuts you call those?
579:  Furrows.
interviewer:  And would you know what they call the horse that walks in the furrow? Would you?
579:  No.
interviewer:  mm-kay and talking about distance, you'd say well, I don't know exactly how far away it is but it's just a little?
579:  Distance.
interviewer:  Or just a little what over?
579:  I've never heard anything expec- but distance used.
interviewer:  #1 What about #
579:  #2 Oh # sometimes feet.
Interviewer:  You're still- so, you're still involved with the bank here?
579:  What?
Interviewer:  You're still pretty well involved with the bank?
579:  Oh, I come every day almost.
Interviewer:  Um, we were talking about, um,
579:  Would you speak a little louder please?
Interviewer:  Sure. {NS} There. Um, we were talking about distance. You'd say, if- if something isn't- um, isn't- you'd say, well, I'm not sure exactly how far away it is but it's just a little?
579:  You mean about the approximate distance of something from where you are?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  A little distance.
Interviewer:  Or just a little what over?
579:  Well, we usually say distance. I don't know if white people do say piece. Like as the colored do.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm Ho- How do they use that?
579:  But they would say it's a short piece from here or a far piece from here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh #1 What would they #
579:  #2 Most of them would. #
Interviewer:  What would a white person say? For a long- longer distance?
579:  We'd call it a long distance.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  Oh, I've been trying to think of a more or less illiterate older person. I know one.
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  She murders the King's English, oh, good gracious! And she'll talk as long as you'll let her lalk- let her talk. Uh, but she lives in- on the upper floor of a century old house on the corner around the corner.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh
579:  And, uh, I don't like the looks of those out stairs. outside stairs. They look to me as though they could collapse any time and I don't want to let- want you to go there. Besides which she'd take too much of your time.
Interviewer:  Well, heck.
579:  And inside is the most fascinating spiral staircase I ever saw. It goes up from the lower hall floor through the floor of the second floor
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  and there's no central shaft in it. I wouldn't walk on it for anything, it's- I think that the house was- I know it was built before the Civil War. I wouldn't walk on that thing. It might have dry rot. What is fascinating is he- what a beautiful piece of carpentry work it is. No central shaft. I never saw before a spiral staircase without a central shaft to give it- give real support to it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  But I wouldn't want you to go there.
Interviewer:  I'd like to go- go see her if I'd like to go see her.
579:  What?
Interviewer:  I'd like to go see her if you could
579:  #1 Uh #
Interviewer:  #2 get me her name. #
579:  #1 #
Interviewer:  #2 #
579:  Alright. Write, uh, uh, you got a piece of scratch paper there?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm It's here.
579:  Nine hundred.
579:  I don't know how you're easily going to have access to her apartment. Because she has paranoia, which is a delusion as to persecution and what not. Now, I'm sure that's what it is. She tells me that people walk on the floor up there on the second floor and knock on the wall and knock on her door and try to get in her window. It's all imagined. Well, she got tired of that so she moved to another house in another part of town.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  Stayed there about six months and now she's back there. Still talking about these delusions.
Interviewer:  Is she crazy? Do you think she's crazy?
579:  No. Just, uh, Oh, I'd say, uh, deterioration of the arteries of the brain. She's not really insane though. I- I knew another old lady who had delusions like that. She thought people were trying to break into the house and that's- I'm sure that's what it is.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
579:  But she's- she's eighty-six or something like that and, uh, I guess she attended the Sister's school. Catholic school across the street from where she lives. But, beyond that almost no education. However, I believe that her memory is pretty good about the old days.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, I might run by and see her.
579:  You'd be entertained by the way she murders the King's English. #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
579:  #1 #
Interviewer:  #2 # Um, say if something was was real common and you didn't have to look for it in a special place. You'd say, oh, you can find that just about?
579:  Any place.
Interviewer:  mm-kay.
579:  Anywhere. Either one.
Interviewer:  And, if someone slipped and fell this way, you'd say he fell over?
579:  Backward.
Interviewer:  This way would be?
579:  Forward.
Interviewer:  And, say if you had been fishing and I asked you if you caught anything you might say, no what?
579:  Since- since what?
Interviewer:  If you had been fishing and I asked you if you caught anything, you might say, no?
579:  No.
Interviewer:  What a one?
579:  What?
Interviewer:  No, a one.
579:  Well, you'd mention the number or the approximate number if there were a good many of them.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Would you ever say no, nary a one.
579:  What?
Interviewer:  N- nary a one.
579:  Oh, the colored say that. White folks don't. That is, educated ones.
Interviewer:  How do- how do they say that?
579:  Well, a colored person would say I ain't caught nary a one.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm And say if, um, if you got rid of all the brush and trees on your land, you say you?
579:  Cleared it.
Interviewer:  And Do you know what they call it when they cut the hay off a piece of land and then enough grows back so you can cut it again?
579:  Cut the hay what?
Interviewer:  So you can cut the hay a second time? Do you know what they call that?
579:  They would call it a second crop.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And wheat is tied up into a?
579:  Wheat?
Interviewer:  Is tied up into a?
579:  Sheafs or sheaves but we don't have any
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  in this part of the country.
Interviewer:  Whe- where do they have those? Did you see them?
579:  I was told that some was grown up in the Delta about about 90 miles from here, I guess, but I never heard of its being grown on any other piece of property. I think that was an experiment.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm And talking about how much wheat you raise to an acre, you might say we raised forty? What of?
579:  Bushels.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And what do you have to do with oats to separate the grains from the rest of it?
579:  Thresh it.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And say if, um, if there was something that we had to do today, just the two of us, you might say we have to do it or you might turn to me and say?
579:  Most likely we'd say I've got to which is not correct.
Interviewer:  What- what would you say?
579:  We'd- most likely we would say I've got to do this or that. I've got to go here or there. I have to would be better.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, what if you're talking about both of us having to, um, you might say we have to or you might say? Would you say me and you or?
579:  We do not say we or us.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  We say you all.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  That's the only, uh, way in which we use all. You all. We don't say we all.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Would- say if- if you were talking about say if a group of people was at your house and you were asking them about their coats
579:  Now what?
Interviewer:  If there was a group of people at your house and you were asking them about their coats
579:  Coats?
Interviewer:  uh-huh How would you ask that? You'd say where are? Would you say you all's coats? #1 Or y'all's? #
579:  #2 mm-mm # Your. Uh, you all is used just in addressing more than one person.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm You don't use it as you all's? You don't use it?
579:  In a- in a case like that we would use the proper word your. Where are your coats?
Interviewer:  Meaning
579:  All of them.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What about say if there was a group of people group of children playing and they obviously belonged to more than one family, um, how would you ask about that? You'd ask, well, would you ever say who all's children are they?
579:  No, we'd say whose.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm And if there had been a party that you hadn't been able to go to you were asking about the people that had gone how would you ask that?
579:  How did you enjoy the party?
Interviewer:  uh-huh Well, would you ever ask who all was at the party?
579:  Rarely. We'd say- usually, we'd ask who was at the party?
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear it who all?
579:  Oh, I can't remember when I have but it probably has been put that way. Who all was at the party?
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  There'd be a little pause between who and all.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What about- say if if someone had made made a speech that you hadn't been able to listen to you were asking about all of the speaker's remarks you know every thing that he said how would you ask that?
579:  Most likely we would say Did he make a good talk? Or did you enjoy his talk or speech?
Interviewer:  Or asking what he said, would you ever say what all did he say?
579:  No, I can't recall that. That would be asking to much of the hearer anyway.
Interviewer:  Well, how have you ever hear that what all? um used
579:  What?
Interviewer:  The expression what all? Have you ever heard that used?
579:  Don't remember it, no.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What would you probably say?
579:  Uh, if you were going to inquire about the content of his speech we- well that- what you have- what- I most- I say the most likely way would say what did he say?
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  What subjects did he cover?
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Say, um, if you were talking about the two of us having to do something would you ever say me and you will have to do it? Or?
579:  You and I.
Interviewer:  mm-kay What about if- if it was another man and you? You'd say
579:  If we knew him well, we'd call him by his first name. Bob, Jim, what have you. Or mr so-and-so and I have to or have got to which would be wrong. do this or that
Interviewer:  Well, referring to him as he or him How would you say that?
579:  Properly, where we'd ought to be. We'd refer to them properly as he or him.
Interviewer:  Uh, uh, would you say him and me or?
579:  Mm, no. Not an educated person, no.
Interviewer:  What would an educated person say? We'd say he and I are going to or have to. mm-hmm
579:  But, we wouldn't say him and I, no. Not an educated person.
Interviewer:  um and say someone wanted to get some work done. You'd say well, he doesn't want just you or just me for this job, he wants...
579:  Some help.
Interviewer:  mm-kay Would you say all two of us or? Both of us or?
579:  Say what?
Interviewer:  Would you say he wants all two of us or? Both of us or?
579:  Both.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And talking about how tall you are you'd say he's not as tall?
579:  As I.
Interviewer:  Or I'm not as tall?
579:  As he.
Interviewer:  And he can do that better?
579:  Than I.
Interviewer:  And if, um, if you knocked at the door and, um, and they called out and, um, said, 'who was there?' and you know that they- they recognize your voice you might, instead of calling out your name, you'd just say, 'it's'?
579:  John. Mary, what have you.
Interviewer:  Or they'd say, 'is that you John?' and you'd say?
579:  Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Interviewer:  'Yes, it's' what?
579:  Is that you John? Is that you Helen?
Interviewer:  And you'd say 'yes, it's'?
579:  You would answer- the person would answer 'yes.'
Interviewer:  'It's'?
579:  Just 'yes'.
Interviewer:  'It's me' or?
579:  No, just yes.
Interviewer:  Well, which sounds better: 'it's me' or 'it's I'?
579:  Oh, 'it's I'.
Interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Yes.
Interviewer:  You don't ever say 'it's me'?
579:  Oh, some careless people do. But, people who are the least bit particular about their speech wouldn't say that.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What if, um, say I asked you, 'was that Jim at the door?' you'd say, 'yes, that was'?
579:  'It was.' We'd just say 'it was.'
Interviewer:  Well, using he or him. How would you say that? 'It was'?
579:  He.
Interviewer:  And if it was a woman, you'd say, 'it was?'
579:  What?
Interviewer:  If it was a woman, you'd say?
579:  'It was she.'
Interviewer:  And if it was two people?
579:  We'd say it was Jim and Bob or Jim and Bill, what have you.
Interviewer:  Or them or they? Which would you say?
579:  We'd say they.
Interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  'It was they.'
Interviewer:  Say if, um, if a man who'd been running two miles and didn't- had to quit- wasn't able to go any- any further than that you'd say 'two miles is the'? What? He could go?
579:  His limit or as far as he could go- run.
Interviewer:  uh-huh Would you say the fartherest or the furthest or?
579:  S- say what?
Interviewer:  How would you say it using the word far? You'd say, 'two miles is the'? Would you say the-?
579:  As far as he can run.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Well, would you say the farthest or the fartherest or? Furthest?
579:  Farthest.
Interviewer:  What's that?
579:  Farthest.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And if something belongs to me, than you'd say it's?
579:  Uh, Bel- It belongs to- to you.
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Is this yours?
Interviewer:  mm-kay And if it belongs to both of us, then it's?
579:  This is ours or is this ours.
Interviewer:  And if it belongs to two people it's?
579:  Theirs.
Interviewer:  And to him it's?
579:  His.
Interviewer:  And to her?
579:  Hers.
Interviewer:  And you'd say, 'if no one else will look out for them' you say 'they've got to look out for'?
579:  Themselves. Or himself or herself.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And what's made out of flour and baked in a loaf.
579:  Wh- what's made?
Interviewer:  Made out of flour and baked in a loaf.
579:  What's made out of it?
Interviewer:  Out of flour. It's baked in a loaf. You call that?
579:  You mean before it's cooked?
Interviewer:  Well, when- after it's cooked it's called.
579:  Well, it might be biscuits.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or it might be, uh, cake or waffles.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm.
579:  Whatever the finished form would be is- is what we would mention.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm If it comes in a loaf it's?
579:  Loaf, of course, that'll be used
Interviewer:  uh-huh um What can you put in bread to make it rise?
579:  Yeast.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What do you call bread that has yeast in it?
579:  Light bread.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and You say, there's two kinds of bread, there's homemade bread and then there's'?
579:  Bakery bread.
Interviewer:  mm-kay What sort of, um, and this is something that is fried in deep fat and it has a hole in the middle?
579:  Donut.
Interviewer:  mm-kay Are there different names for different kinds of donuts?
579:  Yes, some of them have one flavor and some of them have another and some are covered with a chocolate coating.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Are they all called donuts though?
579:  They're still donuts.
Interviewer:  What about something you'd- you make up a batter and fry these for breakfast?
579:  That would most likely be. well, we would always call them batter cakes but the real name is pancakes
Interviewer:  mm-hmm any other old fashioned name for that?
579:  Oh, we boys called 'em patty cakes. {NW} um,
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear flitters or fritters?
579:  Fritters can be made with a with cooked corn in them uh, uh corn that cut off the ear and cooked they're good too if they're properly made corn fritters
Interviewer:  how, how do you make them?
579:  #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 Are they like a # a batter cake? in?
579:  You you make up your batter and mix that in their somehow. I don't know a thing about that.
Interviewer:  But it- it looks the same as- as the pancake or batter #1 cake? #
579:  #2 Yes, also # Sometimes they put cooked Irish potatoes in them.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I ate a couple of them the other d- other day.
Interviewer:  huh-huh um and talking about how much flour might be in a sac you might say you had twenty-five what of flour?
579:  Cups.
Interviewer:  Or in a sac? would contain twenty-five
579:  Oh, you mean a sac that's been almost used up?
Interviewer:  Or the- the- the weight of it?
579:  Oh, weight, pounds.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and What sort of things do you make out of cornmeal?
579:  Ah, you can make cornbread and, if it's properly made, it's good too, as you know. Also, corn cakes. And, uh, corn fritters.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Well, of course, uh, {NW} The national or, rather, Southern, traditional breakfast dish is grits.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  The cornmeal, which is ground much finer, is used in making mush.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  No more attractive than it sounds. Um, that's about it I guess.
Interviewer:  What about something made out of cornmeal that you can fry and eat with fish.
579:  Eat with what?
Interviewer:  Fish.
579:  That would be corn cakes.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm #1 How would- #
579:  #2 You say with meal? #
Interviewer:  Well, it's made out of cornmeal.
579:  {NW}
Interviewer:  And you fry it in deep fat
579:  Mm, I don't know.
Interviewer:  And, well, did you ever hear of hush puppies or?
579:  Oh, yes, yes That's a comparatively new term with me.
Interviewer:  What's that?
579:  We didn't have hush puppies. We didn't have them when I was a boy.
Interviewer:  You didn't have anything like that?
579:  Hush puppies? No.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of corn dodger?
579:  No.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And the inside part of the egg is called the?
579:  Yolk.
Interviewer:  What color is that?
579:  Also called the yellow.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay And if you cook them in hot water you call them?
579:  You could have either soft boiled eggs or hard boiled eggs.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What if you cracked them and let them drop out the shells into hot water?
579:  Poached.
Interviewer:  mm-kay. And did you ever see a hog butchered?
579:  {NW} No, I saw a young cow butchered once and I don't want to ever see anything like that again. No, I've never seen that.
Interviewer:  Well, do you know- when they cut the- the side of the hog do you know how they refer to that section of meat?
579:  Assume they is called spare ribs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  Good too if there's not too much fat on them. And, uh, well, a a fresh ham as we call them- that is, hasn't been seasoned and salted and all that
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  is the hind leg. It's just, uh, roasted and eaten as pork.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  and they call it a fresh ham.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Used to, anyway.
Interviewer:  What other parts of meat are there from the hog?
579:  Well, they pickle the feet. {NW} I don't- I don't think I ever ate any. Pigs' feet. Um, oh, I don't know. That's outside the realm of a bank. I don't know anything about that.
Interviewer:  You mentioned- earlier, you mentioned bacon.
579:  Oh, the bacon! I about to forget that. What about it?
Interviewer:  Well, um, do you refer to when you think of bacon do you mean the the whole section that the cut of meat
579:  I don't know where it comes from. Probably from the hog's side.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Would you call it a- did you ever hear the expression middling?
579:  What?
Interviewer:  Middling.
579:  No, I've heard of chitlins. {NW} The real name is chitterlings but the niggers call them chitlins.
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  I don't know exactly what they are. I imagine it's, uh, very much the least desirable portion of the hog.
Interviewer:  White people don't eat them?
579:  What?
Interviewer:  White people don't eat them?
579:  If they do I never heard of it.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Um, would you what about the kind of meat that you buy sliced? To fry with eggs?
579:  Buy what?
Interviewer:  Buy already sliced. To fry with eggs.
579:  Sliced bacon.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And What about the kind of meat that it's salt pork I guess um it's sort of fat and you can cook it with greens for seasoning food.
579:  It's called salt meat or side meat.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Mostly salt meat.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear of fat back or sow belly or?
579:  Yes, I don't know what it is though. UH, uh, sow- is that s-o-u-r or s-o-w?
Interviewer:  I think s-o-w.
579:  Or whatever it is, is an inferior meat.
Interviewer:  uh-huh You never #1 had experience with- #
579:  #2 I don't think I ever ate any. #
Interviewer:  mm-hmm. What different, um, and say you might take the trimmings and slice them up and grind them and make?
579:  I don't know.
Interviewer:  Well, something you'd st- well, it's real common. You'd stuff it in- have it in little lengths or have it in patties?
579:  Oh, I don't know what that it.
Interviewer:  Well, what else can you have besides bacon or ham? For breakfast in the morning?
579:  Sausage.
Interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  Oh, I for- bout to forget the sausage. Yes. Uh, patties.
Interviewer:  uh-huh Um, and what would you call a person that kills and sells meat?
579:  Butcher.
Interviewer:  And if meat's been kept too long, you say that the meat has?
579:  Spoiled.
Interviewer:  And do you know what inside parts of the hog you eat?
579:  What what?
Interviewer:  What inside parts of the hog are eaten? Or would you have a general name just for the inside parts that you eat?
579:  I think that's where the chitlins come in. I'm not sure. No, I don't know much about that.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Anything about it.
Interviewer:  What can you make from the uh with the meat from the hog's head?
579:  Brains.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And, uh, properly cooked and fresh pretty good too. Cook them usually with eggs.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of, um, Hog head cheese or souse or?
579:  Yes. Yes. Uh, that is, uh, probably brains under a different name and probably cooked a little differently.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, that's that called around here?
579:  Those same things.
Interviewer:  What?
579:  Hog's head cheese or souse.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of, um, pannhaas or scrapple?
579:  A what?
Interviewer:  Pannhaas or scrapple?
579:  Yes, I don't know what it is though.
Interviewer:  You just heard about it while you were traveling around or? Did they have it around here?
579:  Oh, I've just heard country people talk about it.
Interviewer:  Well, what do they call it?
579:  What you mentioned. You don't often hear the word scrapple around here.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What what do you hear?
579:  What's the other one you mentioned?
Interviewer:  Pannhaas. d- did that sound #1 familiar? #
579:  #2 p- p- #
Interviewer:  Pannhaas. I think it's a German-
579:  Don't know that one.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of anything made out of the liver by cooking and grinding up the liver?
579:  No. I think the liver is cut into chunks and the colored folks buy it. But white folks want calf's liver.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What's the difference between calf's and hog's liver?
579:  My guess is that the calf's liver is better flavored.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of making anything out of the blood?
579:  Making what?
Interviewer:  Anything out of the blood?
579:  No.
Interviewer:  And Say if you had some butter that was kept too long and it didn't taste right.
579:  Rancid.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and thick sour milk?
579:  What what milk?
Interviewer:  Thick sour milk.
579:  Clabber.
Interviewer:  What do you make from that?
579:  People eat clabber sprinkle sugar over it and avoid the whey and eat the, uh, quite congealed part
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear of making a kind of cheese from it?
579:  Cottage cheese.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Yes, I've seen it made. The milk is poured into a cloth sack fairly loosely woven the whey just filters through and falls into a bowl and what you have left is cottage cheese.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Nobody bothers to make it except out in the country.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Because you can buy it in neat little cartons in almost any store.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  that sells food.
Interviewer:  What's done with the whey? Anything?
579:  What?
Interviewer:  Is anything done with the whey? Do they just-
579:  I never heard of anything being done with it.
Interviewer:  um and the first thing you do after milking to get the impurities out you have to
579:  Strain it.
Interviewer:  mm-kay Did y'all have a cow?
579:  Yes, we had one oh, about, um, seventy-three years ago or something like that.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  We kept it in the backyard. Well, I believe we did have a house that protected it from the cold weather. A shed. people had them Oh, There were many people who had a backyards large enough to- to handle a cow
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Had them. But as efficient dairy service developed that sort of thing disappeared.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did y'all have chickens too or?
579:  Yes Chickens and turkeys and guineas.
Interviewer:  mm-mm What were the guineas for?
579:  people ate them and ate the eggs. Small brown speckled
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And the guineas had a most discordant cry. The roosters were the most objectionable ones because they would harrow the coming of day entirely too early.
Interviewer:  {NW} You must have had a pretty good sized yard then
579:  Yes 300 feet deep. fr- from the South straight back and 150 feet wide.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did most people uh, when you were, uh, young did most people have most of the families have cows and chickens until they got good dairy services?
579:  I'd say no. Less than half.
Interviewer:  Just people who had a big enough yard. then?
579:  And didn't mind {D: bathing} with animals and fowls.
Interviewer:  um This is something that's kind of like a fruit pie. only it's got several layers of fruit and dough in it?
579:  Oh, I don't know a thing about cooking.
Interviewer:  Well, you know you could have a maybe made out of apples. Have, um layer of dough and then a layer of apples
579:  Oh, I see what you mean Oh, that is called a covered pie.
Interviewer:  mm-kay
579:  And Those without covers or with just little laces of dough across are called, uh, open faced pies or were in my day.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm What about cobbler?
579:  About what?
Interviewer:  Cobbler. Did you ever hear of apple cobbler?
579:  mm-hmm Yes yes, we had that when we were boys.
Interviewer:  What what did that look like?
579:  I don't remember Seems to me it was, uh, Oh, what do they call this Every since that dreadful thing happened to me n- names escape me. Some soft gooey batter and the fruit what do they call it? Cobbl- uh, no. I can't think of the name of it. But we had it.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm um say if What would you call, um, milk or cream that's mixed with sugar and nutmeg that you could pour over pie?
579:  Made with cream or sugar and milk and what?
Interviewer:  Um, well just a sweet liquid you know maybe cream and sugar something that you could pour over pie.
579:  It's part of the pie?
Interviewer:  No, just- just something you could mix up to pour over
579:  Pour over it. Oh. Don't know about that, I never heard of it.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Well, would you call it a- a dressing or a dip or a sauce?
579:  For- for a pie?
Interviewer:  UH-huh, or- or pudding, just- just a sweet liquid mixture. you could make to pour over.
579:  I never knew of anything to be poured over a pie.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and food taken between regular meals you'd call that a?
579:  Now, we'd say a snack.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I don't know what they called it in the old days. I don't remember.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Anytime is unwise to do it.
Interviewer:  {NW} Um, if someone had a good appetite, you'd say "he sure likes to put away his"?
579:  Food.
Interviewer:  Did you ever hear the word vittles used?
579:  Only among the colored and the illiterate.
Interviewer:  How would they use that?
579:  Same way, vittles. Not victuals but vittles.
Interviewer:  uh-huh and if dinner was on the table and the family was standing around the table you'd tell them to go ahead and
579:  Well, at our house we'd say, "wait a minute and let's say grace."
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  And, uh, then after that "Be seated."
Interviewer:  mm-kay and if someone walked into the dinning room you'd say "won't you"? what "down"? "Won't you?"
579:  Join us or have dinner with us or have supper with us or whatever it is.
Interviewer:  Or, he's standing up. You'd say "won't you?" what "down"?
579:  We'd just say won't you have some dinner with us, supper with us what not then we'd proceed to find a seat for the man
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  plate and eating implements for the person.
Interviewer:  Would you say won't you sit down or set down or? What- how would you say that?
579:  Oh, won't you sit down
Interviewer:  uh-huh So you'd say "so then he went ahead and" what "down"?
579:  Uh, the- the person who was invited?
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  Well, he would just sit down and proceed to eat as the food was brought to him.
Interviewer:  But using using the preterite of that word you'd say, "so then he"?
579:  Ate.
Interviewer:  Or or y- you ask him to sit down and you'd say "so then he"
579:  Then he sat down, yes.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  mm-hmm
Interviewer:  Then you'd say "nobody else was standing because they had all"
579:  No- nobody else is staying what?
Interviewer:  Was standing up because everybody had what down?
579:  Had sat down mm-kay
Interviewer:  And if you want somebody not to wait until the potatoes, say, are passed over to them you tell them, now just go ahead and
579:  uh- uh- yo- about a person waiting for what?
Interviewer:  Well say, say if you have food on the table Um, I might tell you now Um don't wait until everything's passed over to you- you just go ahead and
579:  Well, unless things were passed to him he wouldn't have anything to eat
Interviewer:  well, if they're- if they're sitting right in front of you I tell
579:  Oh, help yourself.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and so you'd say, "so then he went ahead and" what "himself"?
579:  Helped himself.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and you'd say then I asked him to pass them over to me because he had already?
579:  Asked him to pass it over to what?
Interviewer:  I asked him to pass the bowl over to me since he had already?
579:  Helped himself.
Interviewer:  mm-kay And if someone offers you some food that you don't want you'd say no thank you I don't
579:  Well, you just it'd be more careful to say "no, thank you" without stating your dislike
Interviewer:  uh-huh Or Would you say I don't choose any or I don't care for any
579:  Well, you might say "I don't eat, uh" asparagus" we'll say mm-hmm Or "asparagus doesn't agree with me." That would be more tactful to say
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or, "I can't eat asparagus"
Interviewer:  uh-huh and, if food's been cooked and served a second time you'd say that it's been?
579:  that food would be called left overs oh, you mean it's the same meal?
Interviewer:  No, If you have for um that night what you had at noon, you'd say the food had been? What?
579:  We'd say it this is a leftover from dinner
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Or, lunch
Interviewer:  and You say you put foot in your mouth and then you begin to
579:  Chew it.
Interviewer:  And you'd say well, he couldn't eat that piece of meat because it got stuck in his throat and he couldn't
579:  Chew it up.
Interviewer:  Or, he could chew it but he couldn't?
579:  Swallow it.
Interviewer:  and Would you have a um special name for vegetables that you grow yourself? for your own use?
579:  Home grown
Interviewer:  mm-kay and what different names are there for um, whiskey that is made illegally?
579:  Uh, moonshine.
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  That's all I've ever heard. Now, let's see rotgut.
Interviewer:  What does rotgut mean?
579:  Such a miserable whiskey that it rots your guts. {NW}
Interviewer:  Um What about beer that you make at home?
579:  Home brew.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and Say if something was cooking and made a good impression on your nostrils you might tell someone just
579:  my that smells good!
Interviewer:  Well, you'd tell him Would you just that?
579:  Might- might tell him what?
Interviewer:  You might tell him "would you just" "that food?"
579:  Smell it.
Interviewer:  mm-kay and
579:  or sniff it usually smell it.
Interviewer:  uh-huh You would never say smell of it, would you?
579:  No. We wouldn't use- use the word of in there.
Interviewer:  uh-huh and you might say, "well, this isn't imitation maple syrup, this is"?
579:  The real maple syrup.
Interviewer:  Or "this is gen-"?
579:  Is what?
Interviewer:  "This is gen-"? "Genui-"
579:  Genuine. No, we'd say real.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  Most likely. Might say genuine.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm And sugar was sold weighed out of the barrel, when you'd- when you'd buy it in big quantities you'd say you were buying it in?
579:  Large quantities.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear the expression in bulk or in bulk?
579:  In in business circles where a person is a wholesaler or a large dealer it's referred to that way. In bulk. mm-hmm mostly wholesalers.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm Did you ever hear the expression, sugar was sold loose?
579:  Sugar what?
Interviewer:  Loose.
579:  Yes. That would be where the grocer would measure out say a pound or two pounds into paper bag and tie it up.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and you'd say you were buying it
579:  Retail.
Interviewer:  Or the other word, buying it? Loose
579:  Well, yes. You would say that. Mm-hmm Ho- how would you say that? That way.
Interviewer:  well Brute could you say it?
579:  What
Interviewer:  Woul- would you say it?
579:  Well If you were buying it from a large container
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  And it's poured into a sack or can or jar or what have you. That would be loose.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  As compared with. The sugar put up as we have it now, in strong bags marked one pound, three pounds or what have you.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. I see. And A sweet spread that you could put on toast in the morning.
579:  A sweet what?
Interviewer:  Spread.
579:  Spread? Molasses, syrup jelly preserves
Interviewer:  Mm-kay And what do you have on the table to season food with?
579:  To do what?
Interviewer:  To season your food with. You have
579:  Salt, pepper, vinegar.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if it was a bowl of apples, and a child wanted one, he'd say
579:  A bowl of apples what?
Interviewer:  There was a bowl of apples, and a child wanted one, he would say give
579:  Give me an apple or I want this one.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And You'd say it wasn't these boys that did that, it must have been one of
579:  The boys next door. Or one of my friends.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And you say, he doesn't live here, he lives
579:  Down the street. Or around the corner.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear over yonder?
579:  Over yonder?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  Oh yes. My boys used to use that expression frequently.
Interviewer:  Is it mean farther away than just-
579:  Farther away.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And you might tell someone, Don't do it this way, don't do it that way, do it
579:  This way.
Interviewer:  Okay. And if you don't have any money at all, you say you're not rich, you're
579:  If you was picking yourself you say I'm broke.
Interviewer:  Or if you Um just never had any money you'd say you were born a rich person, you were
579:  We would most likely say I'm not a rich person rather than say I am a poor person.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Because nobody likes to say that.
Interviewer:  {NW} And If you had a lot of peach trees, you'd say you had a peach...
579:  Orchid.
Interviewer:  And you might ask somebody if that's his orchid, and he'd tell you no and he'd point to somebody else, and he'd say he's the man
579:  I don't, I don't quite understand that question.
Interviewer:  Say I asked I see a man and I ask him if that's his orchid. If that's his peach orchid, and he'd say. No I'm just a neighbor, and he'd point to another man and say.
579:  He owns it.
Interviewer:  He's the man...
579:  Oh yeah it's his orchid.
Interviewer:  Or he's the man...
579:  Who owns it.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And You say when I was a child, my father was poor, but next door was a child
579:  When I was a child, my father was poor what?
Interviewer:  Next door was a child
579:  Whose father was rich. We seldom said wealthy.
Interviewer:  And
579:  Have I got to go through all the rest of that? Mm-mm. {NS} That's gonna take too long. {NS}
Interviewer:  This is an index back here.
579:  Oh.
Interviewer:  It's not, not as long as that. The inside part of a cherry.
579:  Inside part?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  Well the bottom part is a seat. Oh the stuffing. Or what. Upholstery.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh and a cherry though a cherry that you eat.
579:  Just cherries.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. In the peach, the inside is the...
579:  We may call it the meat.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Or the, the part that you don't eat is the...
579:  The skin.
Interviewer:  Or the...
579:  Or the peelings.
Interviewer:  Or the inside part.
579:  Or the, the seed.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  Sometimes called the stone, usually the seed.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, what about in a cherry? Would you call it the seed?
579:  Pit. Seed or pit, either one.
Interviewer:  And the kind of peach that you have to cut the seed out of.
579:  A cling stone peach.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. What about the other kind?
579:  Freestone.
Interviewer:  And The part of the apple that you don't eat.
579:  The core.
Interviewer:  And When you cut up apples and you dry them, you say you're making
579:  Don't know about that.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. What kinds of nuts did people have around here?
579:  Pecans, delicious. You have, probably have some better ones in Georgia than we have, but ours are uh mighty fine. Also. Hickory nuts, which are too hard and don't have much meat in them and they're not worth the trouble of cracking. Also. Black walnuts. Delicious flavor. But even harder to crack, my goodness they have the thickest hulls on them.
Interviewer:  The hull is, is the A walnut has two coverings on it you know.
579:  Yes.
Interviewer:  There's one that you can take off real easy it's soft.
579:  Oh yes, that's when it's in its green, more or less green state, or it dries up.
Interviewer:  What, what do you call that?
579:  The hull.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, what about the harder thing that you have to crack? Is that the hull too?
579:  I suppose it is, but it's just the What do we call that uh? Shell. Shell.
Interviewer:  What about the kind of nut that's shaped like your eye?
579:  Kind of what?
Interviewer:  Nut that's shaped like your eye? It doesn't grow around here, but you can buy it.
579:  And that is shaped as what?
Interviewer:  It's a nut, it's shaped like your eye.
579:  Your eye?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Well very few chestnuts. And Let's see.
Interviewer:  What about almonds?
579:  I don't know what that can be.
Interviewer:  Almond or almond?
579:  Oh yeah they don't grow around here, they grow in California and Florida.
Interviewer:  And what do you call those?
579:  We call them almonds but some people call them almonds.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about a kind of nut that grows under the ground?
579:  Peanuts.
Interviewer:  Any other names for those?
579:  Goobers.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and kind of fruit about the size of an apple grows in Florida.
579:  Grows in Florida?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  About the size of an apple. Some of our peaches are about as large as apples. There is also one that I haven't tasted in decades, persimmon. If you Really want to enjoy a persimmon, you have to wait until it's been exposed to a frost or two.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  And if you don't, the 'un-matured persimmon is very astringent, your mouth just draws up into a knot. I haven't seen one of those in goodness knows how long. Delicious too, big seeds inside I believe the Japanese still grow them.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  They pretty well disappeared around here.
Interviewer:  What about a citrus fruit? It's pretty common in well, in Florida.
579:  Orange, apple grapefruit.
Interviewer:  Talking about the
579:  A lime. Lemon.
Interviewer:  Talking about the oranges, say if you had a bowl of oranges and one day you went in to get one and there weren't any left you'd say the oranges are
579:  You mean if you had a bad one left?
Interviewer:  No there weren't any left, you'd say the oranges...
579:  are all gone.
Interviewer:  And what sort of things did you raise in a garden?
579:  Any number snap beans or string beans okra sweet potatoes possibly because of It's a little trouble to raise them.
Interviewer:  Are there different names for sweet potatoes?
579:  Can't think of any.
Interviewer:  What about yams?
579:  Now what?
Interviewer:  Yams?
579:  Oh yes yes. They are usually lighter in color. And not as sweet as a sweet potato. Yellow yams, they're usually called.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Yes they're grown and uh Oh let's see, I don't know much about that when I had a garden. Um.
Interviewer:  What about a little red thing.
579:  Butter beans.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Hot peppers. I mean they are hot too. Oh That's about all I can think of course, we never had a garden.
Interviewer:  What about a little red thing that grows of root vegetables? Grows down in the ground It's about this big or so. It's red.
579:  Can't think of what that is, we had onions too of course.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Did you have reddish or radish?
579:  Oh yes, I'm forgetting two or three things. Mustard greens, collards, butter beans. That's about it I guess.
Interviewer:  What about radish or reddish?
579:  I don't know of anybody that ever grew a- they're not very popular.
Interviewer:  What did they call it around here?
579:  They call it radishes {C: pronunciation} but I think the real name is radish.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, what about something that um is red, it grows up on a bush that you have to stake up?
579:  Oh eggplants.
Interviewer:  Or it's red. You'd have it in a salad.
579:  Oh it's red. Don't know. Eggplants are black and shiny.
Interviewer:  Well this is something you'd, grows on a bush and you'd stake a
579:  Oh tomatoes of course, of course, of course, yes, many of those were grown.
Interviewer:  What do you call those tomatoes that don't get bigger than this?
579:  I don't know. They grow them in England and they are delicious. That is they're much smaller than our tomatoes. But better flavored.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about the kinds of onions that you pull up and eat before they get real big?
579:  They call them spring onions.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And Say if you wanna get the beans out of the pods by hand
579:  Shell 'em
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
579:  Oh also corn is grown in gardens.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh What do you call the kind of corn that's tender enough to eat off the cob?
579:  The colored folks call them {X} {X}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  We called them just corn on the cob.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about that um the outside part of the corn?
579:  The the uh husk.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  And of course the silk is in there too.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about the little thing that grows up in the top of the corn stalk?
579:  The tassel.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And talking about lettuce, if you wanted to buy some lettuce, you'd ask for two or three...
579:  Heads.
Interviewer:  Would you use that word heads talking about children? Say if you had five children?
579:  Only illiterate and negro.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  We have heads of cabbage too.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say if someone had fourteen children, you'd say he really had a...
579:  Big family.
Interviewer:  Did you ever say a passel?
579:  Colored folks would.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. How, how would they say that?
579:  They would use that very term, passel.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  And I might add, fourteen head.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And little crooked necked vegetables, yellow crooked
579:  Squa- Squash.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Well that's another- two varieties of squash. One is a well maybe uh five inches across and shallow, not deep from top to bottom. Both of them are good if properly cooked.
Interviewer:  Are they both just called squash?
579:  Say what?
Interviewer:  Do they have special names? Or are the both called squash?
579:  They refer to the yellow squash as such. They don't mention the other by any name except squash.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about uh something you can make pie out of at thanksgiving? {NS}
579:  Pumpkins.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Well I see a great {X} many other nights the stores around thanksgiving time But I don't believe they grow in this climate. I think they were brought in from somewhere else.
Interviewer:  What kinds of melons are grown around here?
579:  Uh Watermelons And cantaloupes
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  I believe the correct pronunciation of that is cantaloupe. But I always called them cantaloupes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  And uh illiterate {X} people like colored people call 'em the cantaloupes or cantaloupes mushmelons.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Um what about little umbrella shaped thing that springs up in the woods or fields after it rains?
579:  Toadstools or the real thing is a mushroom.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And something that people smoked, made out of tobacco.
579:  Oh cigars, cigarettes.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if someone offered to do you a favor, but you didn't want to accept it because you didn't want to feel like you owe that person something then you'd say, well thank you but I don't wanna feel...
579:  You would say no thanks and then maybe you would explain why you didn't want the person to do it and. You might say that if the person's offering you something I have that. Or I can't eat that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  But we would not be too viable about not accepting, it'll just
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Usually if you had a legitimate reason for not accepting accepting, even though it wouldn't embarrass you, state it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And say if you might tell someone, well I'd like to help you but I just
579:  If somebody asked you to just for help?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, you'd say I like to but I just
579:  Haven't the time. Or I've got a sore arm or sore leg or what have ya.
Interviewer:  But if you're not able to you'd say They'd ask you, can you do that? And you'd say no I...
579:  That's too heavy for me.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Would say.
Interviewer:  And
579:  If that was the case.
Interviewer:  If someone was um There's something that you really didn't want to do You'd say uh no matter how many times you ask me to do that, I just what, do it?
579:  Well you wouldn't go too far into that. You would just say sorry I can't do that for you.
Interviewer:  What, they say will you do that and you say no I
579:  Usually you say sorry I can't do that for you.
Interviewer:  And Say if a boy got a whipping, you'd say I bet he did something he
579:  Shouldn't have done.
Interviewer:  Or using the word ought. You'd say bet
579:  Ought not to have done, either one.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Um And Say if I asked you if you'll be able to do something for me next week you say Well I'm not sure but I might...
579:  That'd be a good way to express it.
Interviewer:  Would you ever say might could?
579:  Like?
Interviewer:  Might could?
579:  No.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  That's redundancy more or less.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And talking about kinds of animals. The kind of bird that can see in the dark.
579:  Uh animals what?
Interviewer:  The kind of bird that can see in the dark.
579:  The kind of bird?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
579:  Don't know of any.
Interviewer:  Well it has uh big eyes
579:  Oh owls.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What do you call the little owl?
579:  The real name is owlet I believe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  I'm not sure. I've never heard anybody speak of 'em.
Interviewer:  Well I mean the, the smaller um species of owl that has
579:  Oh yes um I don't know about that owl, barn owl. I don't know a thing about owls.
Interviewer:  Would you ever hear squinch owl or
579:  Oh yes. I have heard of squinch owls.
Interviewer:  A screech owl or
579:  Uh Both. {D: Scrinch and sq-} Squinch and screech. One of them is wrong, I don't know which one.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about the big kind? That has a deep voice?
579:  Just an owl.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And Kind of black and white animal that has a real strong smell.
579:  Oh. Skunks. Pole cats. Mm-hmm. And
Interviewer:  A kind of bushy tailed animal that gets up in the trees.
579:  Uh We call them possums, but their real name is opossum.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about something that even you see in the city?
579:  Even what?
Interviewer:  You can even see in the city. A Maybe a grayish sort of animal.
579:  It may be an opossum.
Interviewer:  I'm thinking of squirrels.
579:  Oh! Course of course of course. In the trees yes, squirrels.
Interviewer:  What different kinds are there?
579:  The only kind I ever heard mentioned was well two kinds the gray squirrel and the flying squirrel.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Incidentally, in this part of the country we do not pronounce that name properly. We call 'em squirrels. You can't spell it. {NS} Squirrels is proper. Two R's in it but we just call 'em squirrels.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about the little kind that stays on the ground?
579:  Chipmunks. And uh ground squirrels. We don't see, well Well I don't know {X} I don't know whether there are any around here or not, I think I have seen them.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And say some animals have been coming and getting your hens. You didn't know exactly what kind they were, you might say I'm gonna get me a gun kill those...
579:  Owls. Just owls.
Interviewer:  Would you ever use the word varmint?
579:  Not much in this part of the country. Mostly in uh the East I say, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine, up that way.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Or it might be more wester
Interviewer:  What do they say up there?
579:  A few persons might use that word, varmints or pests or nuisances,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And A bird, the kind of bird that drills holes in trees.
579:  A bird that, oh oh a woodpecker.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Any other name for that?
579:  Peckerwood.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Which did you use to call it when you were little?
579:  A person who cares about his speech would say woodpecker.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Have you ever seen those big woodpeckers?
579:  No. I've never seen any very large ones.
Interviewer:  You ever heard the word peckerwood used about people?
579:  Only in books. Not around here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And what different kinds of fish did they get around here?
579:  White perch. Bass. A species of trout. Uh let's see now, I haven't been fishing in more that seventy years uh. Bass, trout Catfish of course, uh
Interviewer:  What about from the gulf?
579:  There's another little fish I can't think of the name of it. What about what?
Interviewer:  What about from the saltwater, down at the gulf?
579:  Saltwater fish?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  Oh heavens I never fished in saltwater. The list is very long. You'd have to ask somebody down at the gulf coast about that.
Interviewer:  {NW} Well what um what did they get from the gulf that isn't a kind of fish exactly but
579:  A shrimp
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  {X} Everybody likes 'em.
Interviewer:  If you
579:  Oysters
Interviewer:  If you were gonna buy the shrimp, you'd ask for two or three pounds of
579:  Pounds, most likely they'd be frozen in a package with the weight marked on the package.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. You'd, maybe it'd be five pounds of what?
579:  That'd be a mess of shrimp. Now they would generally be about One to two or maybe three pounds.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What might you here uh making a noise around a pond at night?
579:  Around a pond?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  A frog croaking.
Interviewer:  What about, what do you call a big kind of frog?
579:  Bullfrog.
Interviewer:  And the little kind that stays on land?
579:  If they're making a sound I never heard it. But they're tree frogs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  That actually live in trees. And they make a a strange long drawn out cry about sunset.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What um what do you call the the ones that come out after it rains?
579:  If they ever had a name I never heard it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm and the kind that pops around in the garden?
579:  Toad frogs
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if you were to go fishing, what might you dig up to go fishing with?
579:  That's changed since I went. You had a long can for just pieces of bamboo
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  And a {X} float {D: set} for water.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  when a fish tried to swallow the bait
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  you would feel a little tug and the cork would go under the surface or part of the way under the surface you had to watch your cork
Interviewer:  {NW} um
579:  now course it's all different they have rods and reels and artificial bait we used worms and crickets
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and it's quite different now
Interviewer:  um are there different kinds of worms or different names for worms
579:  some of they service stations selling bait they refer to alfalfa worms I couldn't tell one from another usually just earthworms go out in the yard and dig and find some
Interviewer:  {NW} what about a kind of fish you could use for bait
579:  minnows very small fish minnows
Interviewer:  and this is something you might find if if you picked up a rock in a stream it's got two little pinchers on it
579:  crawfish
Interviewer:  okay and something that has a hard shell they can pull its neck and legs into its shell
579:  you know I speaking of a turtle for you
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  we have them round here various sizes
Interviewer:  when you talk about a turtle are you thinking of something that's in water or on land
579:  Both for example one day I was walking along a side street off of Cherry which is up here and there was a turtle a about four and a half inches in diameter walking along the paved street
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  but usually you find them around water
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  they one I saw had a rather high shell the ones who stay in the water most of the time have a more fattened shell
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  softer
Interviewer:  have you ever heard of them called a a cooter or terrapin or
579:  Cooter yes heavens been long since I've heard that terrapins they're huge things you never hear that term used around here possibly we don't have any of them.
Interviewer:  {NW} what's a cooter
579:  A cooter is just a small turtle it to the best of my recollection I haven't heard that expression in so long
Interviewer:  {NW} do you think of it being in water or land or
579:  them oh that's amphibious the ones who spend most of the time in the water come out on the land too looking for food I suppose
Interviewer:  {NW} and talking about kinds of insects the kind of insect that flies around a light tries to fly into the light
579:  we refer to them as moths
Interviewer:  okay um
579:  or light bugs
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  that's not the real name for them that's what we call them the streetlights would have huge light bugs flying around them
Interviewer:  {NW} now you just call it a what
579:  moth M-O-T-H
Interviewer:  {NW} what about an insect that has a little light in its tail
579:  lightning bugs we call 'em
Interviewer:  okay
579:  the I guess it's real name is a firefly
Interviewer:  {NW} what about an insect that'll um bite you and make you itch
579:  make you itch well let's see uh
Interviewer:  or a little tiny I don't know if it bites you little tiny red insect that'll get
579:  oh yes uh
Interviewer:  if you go blackberry picking maybe
579:  oh what's the name the uh things uh yes I know what you mean
Interviewer:  you can hardly see it's it's real small
579:  tick
Interviewer:  {NW} what what about red bug or chigger
579:  oh red bugs that's what I'm trying to think of yes
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
579:  #2 {NW} # the burrow under the skin and can make a {X} troublesome {X} it itches like everything
Interviewer:  uh huh and an insect that hops around in the grass
579:  grasshopper
Interviewer:  have you ever heard those called hoppergrass
579:  oh yes some people refer said call 'em hoppergrasses
Interviewer:  who who does that
579:  those who are less careless about their speech who have not been well educated
Interviewer:  {NW} and kind of insect that might be flying around damp places you'd maybe see 'em around a stream it's got 2 pairs of shiny wings on it some people would say that they're a sign that snakes were near
579:  oh yes oh there's also an insect that stays in trees and puts out a strange cry about sunset the real name is cicadas C-I-C-A-D-A
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I don't know what we call 'em we used to refer to tree frogs I mentioned that
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I haven't heard of those in a long time and and I don't see many lightning bugs as we call them because for the past 12 to 15 years we've been spraying the streets in the evening to kill mosquitoes
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and they kill the other bugs too
Interviewer:  {NW} did you ever see something called a snake doctor or
579:  yes oh now what's the scientific term for that oh they call 'em uh preying mantis {D: M-A-N-T-I-S-P-R-A-Y p-praying and mantis} oh uh uh de-devil horse
Interviewer:  what did you call them when you {X}
579:  i think we called 'em devil horses
Interviewer:  uh huh what about snake
579:  ooh so we have several varieties garden snakes moccasin snakes rattlesnakes
Interviewer:  uh huh what about snake doctor the kind that {X}
579:  snake doctor that's it that's it snake doctor yes
Interviewer:  that's the same as the preying mantis now
579:  what
Interviewer:  that's the same as the preying mantis
579:  the preying mantis is the cousin of those
Interviewer:  well the preying mantis doesn't have wings does it
579:  I don't know we never mentioned them around here but I think I know there's some kind of uh insect that's called a preying mantis
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  we never mentioned them that way
Interviewer:  what about um a mosquito hawk or dragonfly do you ever hear of that
579:  I couldn't identify one to save my neck I heard them spoken of
Interviewer:  around here
579:  yes
Interviewer:  what do what do they call them {NS}
579:  come in
Interviewer:  {NW} england
579:  {NW}
Interviewer:  you've been to England pretty
579:  oh 3 or 4 times I like to hear them talk they're so much more precise than we southern people are
Interviewer:  {NW} which section of of England did you like the best did you get
579:  #1 is #
Interviewer:  #2 out # in the country any
579:  oh yes I like London best because it's steeped in history and just f-featured in so many books and articles I just enjoyed London you may have Paris I like London
Interviewer:  {NW} um what kinds of insects will sting you
579:  wow we have two wasps and bees
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  A strange characteristic I've noted about wasps if you get near one get net where its nest is maybe the thing will fly around you and then make for your nose or maybe your eyes I remember one day we were playing tennis and it son of one of the players was there and that things zoomed in and st stung him on the nose it hurt like everything and he let it be known too
Interviewer:  what about a kind of insect that builds a nest like this
579:  hornets
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  we have those too
Interviewer:  and something that builds a nest out of dirt
579:  we call those dirt daubers
Interviewer:  okay
579:  I think it's a variety of wasp
Interviewer:  {NW} um do you know if they sting or not
579:  what
Interviewer:  do you know if they sting
579:  No I don't.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about something that's um builds nests in the ground it's got
579:  {NW}
Interviewer:  it's yellow and black
579:  I don't know what that is
Interviewer:  you ever hear go ahead
579:  years ago we used to try to catch what we call doodle bugs
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  we take a straw from a broom and mix a little mud on it and stick it down in there and if we saw it move a little bit we'd pull it up and here was a doodle bug a pale colored sort of thing with a little hump
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  near they head and that would they would use that hump to get up and down the the little hole
Interviewer:  {NW} do you ever hear yellow yellow jack
579:  oop yes indeed I was about to forget the yellow jackets
Interviewer:  uh huh how do they build their nest
579:  I don't know I have an idea that they lay make theirs pretty much as the wasps do
Interviewer:  {NW} up somewhere
579:  what
Interviewer:  up some
579:  yes and a sort of papyrus uh material it's not not always mud it's sometimes this uh sort of parchment like material such as wasps make
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  the not oh not uh yeah that's right wasps you find 'em hanging a big clump on a tree sometimes yellow jackets and wasps both
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and you better leave it alone too
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  of course we we know that the bees make their cells of wax remarkable little insects we we have a few horseflies here too and if they bite you you know it
Interviewer:  say um if you hadn't cleaned a room in a while up in the ceiling in a corner you might find a
579:  cobwebs
Interviewer:  okay what about something like that outside maybe across a bush
579:  across what
Interviewer:  across a bush maybe
579:  a across what
Interviewer:  a bush
579:  bush oh they would just be called webs
Interviewer:  okay and the parts of the tree that grow under the ground are called
579:  roots
Interviewer:  did you ever hear of using roots or vines for medicine
579:  Yes and oh let's see years ago some people living in the country would come around selling sassafras I don't know whether the part of the root or part of a stem coming out of the ground but anyway you could steep them and make sassafras tea out of them
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  some people liked them just because there was something to drink and some thought it had medicinal qua qualities I don't know now
Interviewer:  {NW} and what different trees do they have around here
579:  oh an endless list we have some of the finest hardwood that grows in this country oak, ash, hickory, gum, pecan, walnut which is getting scarce um let's see softwoods we have pine and cottonwood and sycamore
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  the one that's probably most used in building and in making furniture oak and gum next to that {NS}
Interviewer:  um and the kind of tree that um you tap for syrup
579:  kind of tree what
Interviewer:  that you tap of syrup
579:  we don't have any that I know of
Interviewer:  you know what it's called
579:  well that maple tree is in New Hampshire Vermont Maine up that way
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  but we don't have those
Interviewer:  um did you ever live up there or did you just travel
579:  no I've just visited up there on summer vacations
Interviewer:  uh huh um do you know what they'd call a big group of those um maple trees growing together
579:  a grove
Interviewer:  {NW} and the kind of tree that George Washington cut down
579:  George what
Interviewer:  the kind of tree that George Washington cut down
579:  cherry tree is what we have very few of those they grow in the more northern climates
Interviewer:  {NW} what about um do you this is a bush or shrub the leaves turn bright red in the fall and it's got little clusters of berries on it
579:  there are 2 kinds blackberries and blue and uh and uh dewberries
Interviewer:  {NW} do you have something called sumac or shoemake
579:  yes the leaves turn a beautiful red color that's about the only vividly colored shrub we have in this climate
Interviewer:  uh huh what what do you call that
579:  sumac
Interviewer:  okay and do you have a a bush or or shrub called mountain laurel or spoonwood
579:  Not here that grows in the mountainous country.
Interviewer:  {NW} what about rhododendron or
579:  No North Carolina is thick with them but we don't have them down here that's a mountainous
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  tree shrub.
Interviewer:  what about the the state tree of Mississippi what's that
579:  Magnolia oh we have a good many of them and they they {NW} blooms were very large and they're right fragrant too
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm um do you ever hear those called anything else um do you ever hear it called a cow cumber or cucumber tree
579:  No I never have.
Interviewer:  um what kinds of of bushes or vines will make your skin break out if you touch 'em
579:  oh good gracious 2 of 'em {NW} uh poison ivy and poison oak
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  Some people are very allergic to them I'm one of them. I don't want to touch any poison ivy oh well you hear more of poison ivy than you do with poison oak.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm what's how can you tell the difference between them
579:  I can't but the one that I recognize as being very harmful to me has a trifoliate leaf usually 1 petal goes up and 1 on each side and you can tell it's a vine alright and not a young tree or shrub
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  if you if you are allergic to them they can really make the contacts unpleasant painful
Interviewer:  what um kinds of berries do they have around here
579:  blueberries and blackberries and I think there's some called gooseberries but I don't know when I've seen a one of 'em
Interviewer:  what about a red berry that you make shortcake out of
579:  make what out of
Interviewer:  shortcake it's a red berry
579:  don't know that
Interviewer:  you know straw
579:  huh
Interviewer:  straw
579:  shrub
Interviewer:  strawberries
579:  strawberries oh heavens they grow across the ground delicious if you get them when they're ripe and put enough sugar on them
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  we don't have a great many of those around here mostly in the southern part of the state and in Florida
Interviewer:  they have well what do you call those
579:  strawberries
Interviewer:  {NW} what about a a berry some of 'em are red and some of 'em are black they've got sort of a rough surface to 'em
579:  blackberries are like that when they uh red they're not ripe
Interviewer:  {NW} what about rasp
579:  what
Interviewer:  rasp
579:  spell that
Interviewer:  R-A-S-P-B-
579:  raspberries no we don't have them
Interviewer:  say if if you saw some berries and didn't know what kind they were you might tell someone you better not eat those they might be
579:  poisonous
Interviewer:  and if a married woman didn't want to make up her own mind she'd say I have to ask
579:  some of them refer to their husbands as papa some of 'em as daddy
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  some by they names Jim George what have you or some will say my husband
Interviewer:  uh huh what would a husband say he'd say I have to ask
579:  wife by given name or just wife or some uh joking way my better half
Interviewer:  uh huh and your father and mother together are called your
579:  parents
Interviewer:  what did you call your father
579:  papa when we were young father when we was older
Interviewer:  {NW} you called him father to
579:  when we grew older papa when we were young
Interviewer:  {NW} what about your mother
579:  she was mama when we were young and mother when we were older
Interviewer:  {NW} and your fathers father he's your
579:  sometimes grandpa usually grandfather
Interviewer:  {NW} what about his wife would be
579:  grandma or grandmother
Interviewer:  uh huh and if you had 2 children you might have a son and a
579:  daughter
Interviewer:  or a boy and a
579:  boy and a girl
Interviewer:  and something on wheels that you can put a baby in and it'll lie down
579:  well everybody just call those a perambulator or pram but we call them a baby carriage
Interviewer:  uh huh and you'd put the baby in the carriage and then you'd go out and
579:  Push it.
Interviewer:  okay and to get something to come towards you you'd take hold of it and
579:  Pull it.
Interviewer:  okay um and if a woman was gonna have a child you'd say that she's
579:  is expecting or pregnant
Interviewer:  did they used to use that word pregnant when you were growing up
579:  i think that grew in usage past my boyhood
Interviewer:  {NW} it wasn't nice to say then
579:  I don't know why it just wasn't in general use when I was a boy
Interviewer:  {NW} and if you didn't have a doctor to deliver the baby the woman you might send for would be a
579:  a midwife
Interviewer:  and if a boy has the same color hair and eyes that his father has and the same shape nose you'd say that he what his father
579:  resembles his father looks like his father
Interviewer:  {NW} what if he has the same mannerisms and behavior you'd say that he
579:  has the same ways as his father
Interviewer:  {NW} and if a woman's looked after three children until they're grown you'd say that she's what three children
579:  well most people say raised I don't like it I say reared
Interviewer:  {NW} why don't you like raised
579:  what
Interviewer:  why don't you like raised
579:  I think raising hogs cattle chickens what have you
Interviewer:  {NW} and if a child was misbehaving you might tell him if you do that again you're gonna get a
579:  spanking
Interviewer:  what would you say to an older child
579:  It you're going to be punished.
Interviewer:  okay would you ever hear whipping or thrashing or
579:  #1 what #
Interviewer:  #2 tanning # whipping or thrashing
579:  Oh hairbrush or raise a strap?
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  or uh a rod or some kind small piece of wood
Interviewer:  if you were gonna use that you'd say you're gonna give the child a
579:  Whipping.
Interviewer:  okay um what does biking do with your hands {X}
579:  Spanking was generally done with a bare hand on the rear end of a very young child.
Interviewer:  okay and the child that's born to a woman that's not married is called a
579:  Bastard.
Interviewer:  any other names for that more common
579:  well they might be referred to as by older or more mature persons as an illegitimate child
Interviewer:  {NW} did you ever hear something like woods colt or bush child
579:  what
Interviewer:  woods colt or bush child any sort of common expression
579:  wo-wo-wood what
Interviewer:  colt
579:  no I've never hear that term
Interviewer:  okay and a person who's supposed to look after an orphan is called a his legal
579:  look after what
Interviewer:  an orphan is called
579:  oh legal guardian
Interviewer:  and if you have a lot of cousins and nephews and nieces around you'd say this town is full of my
579:  you say this town this what
Interviewer:  this town is full of my
579:  your relatives or kinfolks
Interviewer:  okay and you say well she has the same family name and she looks a little bit like me but actually we're no
579:  kin
Interviewer:  and somebody who comes into town and nobody's ever seen him before he'd be a
579:  stranger
Interviewer:  and what if he came from a different country
579:  a foreigner
Interviewer:  would you ever use that word foreigner to refer to someone who didn't come from a different country but came from a different section of this country
579:  I've never heard such
Interviewer:  okay and these are some names um the name of the mother of Jesus
579:  the name of the mother is what
Interviewer:  the name of the mother of Jesus
579:  the virgin Mary
Interviewer:  okay and George Washington's wife
579:  well most people lose sight of the fact that her name was Martha Custis that's referred to as George Washington's wife mostly
Interviewer:  {NW} um did you ever hear the song wait 'til the sun shines
579:  yes good gracious long long ago
Interviewer:  do you remember what the name was in that
579:  no a woman's name Nelly?
Interviewer:  okay that that would fit
579:  {NW}
Interviewer:  um and a a nickname for a little boy named William
579:  Named who?
Interviewer:  named William a nickna-
579:  William Bill or Billy
Interviewer:  okay and the first book in the New Testament
579:  Ge-Genesis
Interviewer:  or the New Testament
579:  oh the new oh oh uh what is it um
Interviewer:  Matt
579:  Matthew Mark Luke Matthew Matthew
Interviewer:  and um the name of the wife of Abraham
579:  Sarah
Interviewer:  and um
579:  I'm skating on thin ice now I have too many magazines
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  not enough time to read the bible
Interviewer:  um you take magazines pretty much you subscr-
579:  I have about 5 of 'em more than I oughta have can't read all of 'em properly
Interviewer:  what sort of magazines do you read
579:  Which ones?
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  the Geographic National Geographic the Smithsonian magazine the Readers Digest Time and my church paper
Interviewer:  so you're a member of the Smithsonian um the that group they have of people
579:  #1 yes #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # to how is their magazine I've never seen a copy of it
579:  Very interesting and the place itself is fascinating I believe that you could go there every day for a week and still not see all the interesting things
Interviewer:  {NW} um someone nicknamed Bill his full name would be
579:  William
Interviewer:  and if your father had a brother and by that full name you you would call him
579:  Well my father had a brother named Harry and he was uncle Harry to us.
Interviewer:  {NW} what about if if his full name was William he'd be
579:  He might be called Will or Bill or William.
Interviewer:  or unc- he if he's your fathers brother he would be your
579:  uncle when we were young we'd refer to uncle Bill uncle Will uncle William or might be
Interviewer:  okay and the last book in the New Testament I mean the the last before gospels is
579:  John
Interviewer:  and if your father had a brother by that name he'd be
579:  he might be John or if
Interviewer:  he's your fathers brother
579:  Yes uncle uncle John or maybe uncle Jack.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  Usually though they wouldn't refer to an uncle by such an informal name as Jack.
Interviewer:  {NW} and do you know what they used to call a barrel maker
579:  A boiler maker?
Interviewer:  barrel
579:  {X}
Interviewer:  #1 ba- #
579:  #2 ba- #
Interviewer:  barrel
579:  spell that
Interviewer:  B-A-R-R-E-L
579:  Oh a cooper.
Interviewer:  okay and what would you call a married woman who had that last name
579:  A married woman what?
Interviewer:  with that last name she'd be
579:  Well she'd be Mrs. Jones Mrs. Brown what have you.
Interviewer:  or the last name Cooper she'd be
579:  whatever the family whatever the family name of her husband was she'd be Mrs that whatever name
Interviewer:  if if her family name was Cooper or Cooper or
579:  incidentally we always call that Cooper down here which isn't correct
Interviewer:  {NW} what what would you call her she'd be
579:  Mrs. Cooper
Interviewer:  okay and a preacher that's not very well trained just sort of preaches here and there isn't very good at preaching what would you call him
579:  A poor preacher.
Interviewer:  do you ever hear the expression shade tree or jack leg preacher
579:  No.
Interviewer:  {NW} and what relation would my mothers sister be to me
579:  Aunt and a strange thing has developed among the colored folks they refer to an aunt as auntie
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  where they got that I can not imagine it years ago when I was a small boy she was auntie now shes auntie
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I can't make it out
Interviewer:  {NW} well um say if your mother's introducing you to her brother and and sister she'd say this is
579:  Uncle Jim and Aunt Mary
Interviewer:  or this is your uncle and this is
579:  your aunt
Interviewer:  okay and um say the highest rank in the army is
579:  some kind of general I don't know which one
Interviewer:  {NW} well what about someone beneath the general
579:  colonels majors
Interviewer:  okay
579:  lieutenant colonels
Interviewer:  #1 have you ever #
579:  #2 oh oh # I I believe the general of the army is the highest ranking general
Interviewer:  uh huh were you ever in the army
579:  No I've never been in the army I was above age for the first World War
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  by a few months.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  my mother was getting old and my brother was an invalid and they needed me more than my country did
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  So I didn't volunteer.
Interviewer:  {NW} what do they call a a man in charge of a ship
579:  Master or Captain.
Interviewer:  okay who would say master
579:  What?
Interviewer:  who would say master
579:  well the colored folks of old used to say marster but we call 'em masters or usually captains
Interviewer:  to people in charge of a ship or people that they worked for or what
579:  people in charge of a ship
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  well
Interviewer:  #1 the the #
579:  #2 you mean a #
Interviewer:  steamboat
579:  huh
Interviewer:  you mean the steamboats I guess
579:  steamboats
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  we don't have the ships here
Interviewer:  um what did um colored people used to call the people that they worked for
579:  way way back yonder a century ago or more {D: massa M-A-S-S-A}
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  or sometimes boss
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  eve uh even to this day boss is frequently used he's my boss
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  my boss says this and so forth
Interviewer:  do they use that word captain um still
579:  {NW} when I was a boy there were more captains whom I thought were not entitled to the title
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and I don't know how they got it some of 'em were retired steamboat captains
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  Some were captains in the civil war. Some were captains in the national guard.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  but I think it was a sort of title of respect in a good many cases
Interviewer:  what would the colored people say would you ever hear them call
579:  cap'n or cap
Interviewer:  {NW} and the person who presides over the court is called the
579:  {D: judge way back yonder they colored folks called 'em jej-}
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  {D: a shovel was a shivel}
Interviewer:  {NW} okay and a person who goes to school is called a
579:  scholar or pupil or schoolboy or schoolgirl
Interviewer:  what about if you're college age would you still call 'em a pupil college pupil or
579:  students
Interviewer:  okay and person who works in an office and does the typing and so forth would be called a
579:  clerk typist
Interviewer:  or sec
579:  stenographer
Interviewer:  or sec
579:  Although with the coming of tapes stenographers that took notes in short hand are becoming obsolete.
Interviewer:  {NW} well um another name for a person like that be someone who does the typing and takes care of the mail and schedules the appointments and so forth would be called a
579:  clerk
Interviewer:  or sec
579:  what
Interviewer:  sec
579:  clerk
Interviewer:  what about secre-
579:  What?
Interviewer:  Secretary
579:  oh what oh yes yes yes a great many female employees are called secretaries but they aren't really that the employer just wants to sound important so he calls them secretaries
Interviewer:  who has a secretary
579:  what about
Interviewer:  you think of a secretary as being a more elevated position for more responsible
579:  yes a secretary might make notes of certain appointments that her employer has to meet or make notes of what transpired at certain important meetings
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  not just the routine typing and filling out of forms and so forth
Interviewer:  {NW} and a man on the stage would be an actor a woman would be a
579:  actress
Interviewer:  and if you're born in the United States then you say your nationality is
579:  {NW} I-in the United States?
Interviewer:  your nationality is
579:  American
Interviewer:  okay and what different um words were there for the races what what did they used to call black people
579:  Niggers.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  They hated it. In later years they did. Or darkies or coons.
Interviewer:  was coon a a derogatory term or jocular
579:  oh bout like uh uh uh darkies
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  no that wasn't used as much as the other terms
Interviewer:  {NW} are any of those terms used now
579:  You very seldom hear the word coon.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I don't like the word blacks they're not all black some of them are chocolate colored some of 'em are yellow.
Interviewer:  what do you mean yellow
579:  Very light colored.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  Result of some um indiscretions among persons of different races so to speak.
Interviewer:  {NW} um what about white people what're they called
579:  White people.
Interviewer:  any other terms for whites
579:  No since this term of blacks and whites has come up you find 'em referred to as whites in newspapers and magazines and on TV and so forth.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  We just refer to them as white people.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about um a child that's um born with with one parent's colored and the other parent's white? What would you call a child like that from a racially mixed marriage?
579:  No particular term for that except that since the person would be pretty light colored might be referred to as a high yellow.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  They are generally more intelligent than the brown negroes or the black negroes because they have some white blood in 'em.
Interviewer:  What would you call a really dark skinned negro?
579:  Just a negro or the well if you describe it you say he's very dark or very black.
Interviewer:  {NW} and what would you call white people that aren't very well off but they don't care much they don't try to work they don't have much education
579:  White trash.
Interviewer:  {NW} is that a word white people use to call
579:  That's the way white people refer to no count as they say other white people.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  No ambition no education willing to live in rather primitive conditions.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  White trash.
Interviewer:  um what did um negroes used to call white people like that did they
579:  I don't know I've never heard them express themselves on the subject
Interviewer:  {NW} did you ever hear the terms cracker or hoosier to mean white
579:  The Indiana people are referred to as hoosiers. What was the other word?
Interviewer:  cracker
579:  George {NW} Georgia crackers
Interviewer:  uh huh but did you ever hear cracker just meaning any white person
579:  No.
Interviewer:  low down um what about someone um from Louisiana the French people from Louisiana
579:  A certain section in a certain section and or speaking of a person from that section they're called Cajuns C-A-J-A-A-N-S.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  C-A-J-A-N-S yeah which is a corruption of Arcadians
Interviewer:  {NW} what about um any more vulgar term for Cajuns
579:  Any what?
Interviewer:  another a more vulgar term for Cajuns
579:  Don't know of any.
Interviewer:  did you ever hear coonie or coonie ass
579:  What?
Interviewer:  coonies
579:  Coonie?
Interviewer:  or coonie ass for Cajuns
579:  I've never heard of them.
Interviewer:  okay what about someone who lives out in the country and doesn't get into town much and when he does get into town everybody sort of knows his um and sort of laughs about him you know being from way out in the country
579:  We used to call 'em country Jakes.
Interviewer:  okay um any other terms like that that you can think of to refer to groups of people
579:  No I can't think of anything else.
Interviewer:  {NW} and say if um if you were at a party and you look at your watch and it's around eleven thirty or so might say well we better be getting home it's what midnight
579:  might say it's time to go {NW} course it would be
Interviewer:  it's it's not
579:  #1 oh it's getting #
Interviewer:  #2 quite midnight #
579:  late or might say it's getting late
Interviewer:  uh huh it's not quite midnight yet but it's
579:  not quite what
Interviewer:  it's not quite midnight yet but it's
579:  would say it's getting late
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  or late for me
Interviewer:  {NW} and say if you were walking outside on some on an icy area you'd say well I didn't actually fall down but a couple of times I slipped and I like I didn't actually fall but I slipped and I like like to
579:  Have fallen.
Interviewer:  how say the whole thing
579:  to have fallen
Interviewer:  uh huh I slipped and I
579:  almost fell
Interviewer:  {NW} and if someone was waiting for you to get ready so y'all could go somewhere and he calls out and ask if you'll be ready soon you say I'll be with you in
579:  A little while or few minutes or five minutes or three minutes or what have you.
Interviewer:  or just I'll be with you in just
579:  With you in what?
Interviewer:  ju- you mean just one minute you'd say I'll be with you in
579:  In a minute.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  Which is foolish.
Interviewer:  and um
579:  Are we getting near the end of this?
Interviewer:  um pretty near the end
579:  You know what I think well I'll tell you later go ahead.
Interviewer:  okay um this part of my head is called my
579:  Huh?
Interviewer:  this part of my head is called my
579:  Forehead.
Interviewer:  and
579:  {D: It really is forehead but we call it forehead.} {C: pronunciation}
Interviewer:  uh huh and this is my
579:  Hair.
Interviewer:  and on a man hair here would be a
579:  Beard or whiskers.
Interviewer:  okay and this is my
579:  Ear.
Interviewer:  which one
579:  Left ear.
Interviewer:  and this is
579:  The right ear.
Interviewer:  and
579:  Mouth. Neck. Throat.
Interviewer:  what do you call this thing here
579:  That's where I bled let's see uh oh shucks um well your windpipe goes down there uh epiglottis comes in there somewhere
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and the other word uh
Interviewer:  esoph- esophagus you mean
579:  yes the esophagus.
Interviewer:  did you ever hear goozle
579:  A what.
Interviewer:  goozle
579:  Spell that.
Interviewer:  goozle G-O-O-Z-L-E I guess
579:  {X}
Interviewer:  goozle
579:  How you spell it?
Interviewer:  G-O-O-Z-L-E
579:  {D: Zoozle?}
Interviewer:  goozle
579:  Goozle.
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  Well I've heard of a guzzle where you just gulp down a water fast when you're very thirsty or beer or what have you
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  but no goozle no.
Interviewer:  okay and these are my
579:  Teeth.
Interviewer:  and one
579:  Front teeth.
Interviewer:  this is just one
579:  Oh yeah I've forgotten.
Interviewer:  well I mean you the singular of teeth is
579:  The what?
Interviewer:  the singular form of teeth is
579:  The what kind of form?
Interviewer:  the singular
579:  Spell that.
Interviewer:  uh these these are two teeth this is just one
579:  Tooth.
Interviewer:  okay and the flesh around your teeth
579:  The what?
Interviewer:  the fl
579:  Gums gums.
Interviewer:  okay and this is my
579:  Hand.
Interviewer:  two
579:  Left hand and right hand.
Interviewer:  so I have two
579:  Two hands.
Interviewer:  and this is the
579:  Palm of your hand.
Interviewer:  and this is one
579:  Fist.
Interviewer:  two
579:  Fists.
Interviewer:  and the place where the bones come together you'd call a
579:  Come together?
Interviewer:  uh huh you know where
579:  Joints.
Interviewer:  okay and on a man this upper part is called his
579:  Chest.
Interviewer:  and these are the
579:  Shoulders.
Interviewer:  and {NS} you have a what you walk on
579:  Feet.
Interviewer:  and this is my
579:  That'd be your your thigh or your upper leg and your foreleg
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  and your ankle and your foot.
Interviewer:  and if you get down in this position you say you
579:  Full knee bend.
Interviewer:  or you what down
579:  Squat.
Interviewer:  did you ever hear another way of saying that that you're down on your hunkers or haunches
579:  that's what you were a moment ago {NW}
Interviewer:  what's that
579:  on your haunches way down
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  full knee bend
Interviewer:  {NW} what do you call this sensitive bone right here
579:  shin bone
Interviewer:  okay and if someone had been sick for a while you say well he's up and about now but he still looks a bit
579:  we might say puny
Interviewer:  okay
579:  most likely would say puny
Interviewer:  uh huh someone who's in real good shape you'd say he's big and
579:  husky
Interviewer:  okay
579:  which is a slang term you won't find that listed among scientific terms
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  I think
Interviewer:  what about someone who's real easy to get along with doesn't lose his temper you'd say
579:  friendly congenial likable
Interviewer:  okay and someone like a teenage boy that is just all arms and legs you'd say that he's
579:  awkward
Interviewer:  okay and a person who keeps on doing things that don't make any sense you'd say he's just a plain
579:  keeps on doing things that don't make sense
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  we might say nut
Interviewer:  would you ever use the word fool
579:  fool
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  oh yes uh huh
Interviewer:  that's alright to say
579:  the bible says you should not call a man a fool {NW} {X} says it's in danger of hell fire
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I never took that literally though
Interviewer:  well someone who has a lot of money but won't spend a cent you'd say that he's a
579:  tightwad or stingy mostly a tightwad
Interviewer:  {NW} and when you say that a person is common what does that mean
579:  person is what
Interviewer:  is common
579:  ordinary or just common either one
Interviewer:  is it insulting
579:  what
Interviewer:  is it insulting to say
579:  well it's certainly not uh something to be proud of you wouldn't tell a person to his face you're ordinary you're common
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  but that's what they are
Interviewer:  when you say that a girl is very common what does that mean
579:  you would keep quiet about it you mean uh you modest
Interviewer:  well uh what what do you think of if you if someone said that a girl was common would it take on a would it take on a slightly different meaning
579:  no ordinary be the other word I'd think of
Interviewer:  okay and someone like an older person that still gets around real well and doesn't show his age
579:  active spry
Interviewer:  okay and say if your children were out later than usual you'd say well I don't guess there's anything wrong but still I can't help feeling a little
579:  anxious
Interviewer:  or a little you wouldn't feel easy you'd feel
579:  uneasy
Interviewer:  and you say well it'll be alright just don't
579:  you giving consent to a child to do something
Interviewer:  no you say well the children will get home alright just don't
579:  worry
Interviewer:  and a little child might say well I'm not going upstairs in the dark I'm
579:  scared of the dark
Interviewer:  okay
579:  now they wouldn't say afraid I'm scared
Interviewer:  uh huh and you might say well I don't understand why she's afraid now she what
579:  well if a child is afraid now it's unlikely that they were not afraid at an earlier age but you might say she will outgrow that
Interviewer:  {NW} well if she hadn't been afraid earlier you'd say well I don't understand why she's afraid now she
579:  something must've frightened her
Interviewer:  how would um what's the opposite of used to be you say I
579:  present
Interviewer:  I don't understand why she's afraid now she would you say she used not to be or didn't used to be or how would you say that
579:  yes oh but a better expression would be she formerly was not
Interviewer:  {NW} but using the expression used to be how would you say that
579:  just that way
Interviewer:  how
579:  she use we'd say she use to to be
Interviewer:  uh huh and you'd say there's there's nothing really wrong with aunt Lizzy but sometimes she acts kind of
579:  might say nutty or foolish or silly
Interviewer:  {NW} {D: what about queer or quar}
579:  what
Interviewer:  Q-U-E-E-R
579:  queer
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  well if we use that term it would really be a bad situation uh somewhat demented
Interviewer:  you mean she would just mean she's crazy or
579:  bordering on it
Interviewer:  uh huh is that word changed meanings recently
579:  {X} what
Interviewer:  has that word changed meanings recently
579:  what queer
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I should say yes now it as I understand it indicates a person who is more than eccentric but not insane
Interviewer:  {NW} and say a person who who makes up his own mind and then there's no use arguing with him you can't make him change his mind
579:  you'd say he or she has a mind of his or her own
Interviewer:  uh huh or he won't ever admit he's wrong you'd say that he's
579:  is stubborn
Interviewer:  okay and somebody that you can't joke with without him losing his temper you'd say that he's mighty
579:  I just can't get along with him or her
Interviewer:  {NW} what you'd say you better not tease him about that um because he's when it comes to that subject he's still mighty
579:  you might say obstinate
Interviewer:  w would you ever say something like touchy or testy or touches or
579:  catchy
Interviewer:  touches touchy
579:  spell that
Interviewer:  T-O-U-C-H-Y
579:  {D: pouchy}
Interviewer:  no touchy
579:  touchy oh yes yes don't mess in that that's a touchy subject with him
Interviewer:  {NW} and say well I was just kidding I didn't know he'd get so
579:  mad
Interviewer:  and
579:  twitches is not the right word angry or annoyed or what have you
Interviewer:  and someone's about to lose their temper you might tell them now just
579:  might tell 'em what
Interviewer:  someone's about to lose their temper you tell them not just
579:  tell 'em what
Interviewer:  what would you tell them
579:  now don't get mad about that
Interviewer:  or just keep
579:  calm yourself
Interviewer:  {NW} and if you had been working very hard you'd say you were very
579:  tired
Interviewer:  any other words people would use
579:  worn out
Interviewer:  okay and say if a person had been well and all of a sudden you hear they've got a disease you'd say well yesterday they were fine when was it that they what sick
579:  you should say fell ill but we say got sick
Interviewer:  okay and someone went outside in bad weather and came in and was sneezing you'd say that he
579:  catch a cold
Interviewer:  or if that had happened you'd say yesterday he
579:  caught a cold
Interviewer:  and if it affected his voice you'd say he was
579:  hoarse
Interviewer:  {NW} and if you do that you have a
579:  sore throat
Interviewer:  or a
579:  cough
Interviewer:  and say you'd gotten someone some medicine you'd go in there and you see the medicine still lying by their bed you'd say why haven't you
579:  taken this medicine
Interviewer:  and they might say well I already what some
579:  the person might say I don't like the taste of it or I forgot it
Interviewer:  or you'd say well an hour ago I what some
579:  what
Interviewer:  you might say well I did an hour ago I what some medicine
579:  you might say I did take it but it didn't do any good
Interviewer:  okay and if you can't hear anything at all you'd say that you're
579:  stone deaf
Interviewer:  and say if a man had been out working in the sun and he takes off his shirt and it's all wet you'd say look how much I
579:  perspired some might say sweated
Interviewer:  okay and a sore that comes to a head is called a
579:  a what
Interviewer:  a sore that comes to a head is called a
579:  a store that
Interviewer:  a sore
579:  sore oh a boil or a carbuncle
Interviewer:  okay are they the same thing
579:  no a carbuncle is worse and as I understand it goes deeper below the surface
Interviewer:  {NW} and when a boil opens the stuff that drains out
579:  is generally called pus or matter
Interviewer:  okay what about in a blister
579:  they have a an almost clear fluid in them
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and if they're punctured that runs out
Interviewer:  what do people refer to that as
579:  I never heard it mentioned as anything except water
Interviewer:  okay and you say a bee stung me and my hand did what it got bigger you'd say my hand
579:  a bee stung me in my hand and what
Interviewer:  and my hand did what where it stung me my hand
579:  swelled up
Interviewer:  and you say it's still pretty badly
579:  swollen
Interviewer:  and they say if a bee stings you then your hand will
579:  swell
Interviewer:  and if someone got shot or stabbed you'd say you'd have to get a doctor to look at the
579:  place
Interviewer:  or the
579:  wound
Interviewer:  and you know sometimes a wound won't heal back right and it's got a it gets sort of a skinless growth on it it's gotta be cut out or burned out
579:  a a growth on the skin
Interviewer:  well it doesn't heal back quite right
579:  doesn't grow back quite right
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  oh I don't know I never encountered that
Interviewer:  did you ever hear some kind of flesh
579:  proud flesh or granulated flesh
Interviewer:  {NW} and if you cut your finger you could put a few drops of
579:  if you cut your finger
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  antiseptic
Interviewer:  or a brown liquid medicine that stings
579:  oh iodine
Interviewer:  and a real bitter medicine
579:  {D: quinine}
Interviewer:  and if someone was shot and didn't recover you'd say that he
579:  was killed
Interviewer:  okay any nice ways of saying that a person died
579:  passed away or transpired
Interviewer:  what about a crude way of saying that
579:  died is the only one I can think of
Interviewer:  {NW} you'd say well he's been dead a week and nobody's figured out yet what he died
579:  of
Interviewer:  and a place where people are buried
579:  cemetery
Interviewer:  and any old name for that
579:  what
Interviewer:  any old fashioned name for that
579:  burying ground or burial ground
Interviewer:  {NW} and what they put the body in
579:  coffin or casket
Interviewer:  and if people are dressed in black at a funeral you say that they're in
579:  mourning and you know what that reminds me of
Interviewer:  what
579:  if a womans husband died way back yonder about eighty years ago
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  a woman she might have a box full of good stationary you know that's set aside she gets mourning stationary which has a black border around the note sheets and a black border around the envelope and they use those for what they thought was a proper length of time before going back to their regular stationary
Interviewer:  I never heard that
579:  also
Interviewer:  just say
579:  a widow way back yonder would wear a mourning uh um what do you call it cap or hat whatever it was I saw a turtle shelled affair
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  plain black didn't rise up high didn't have any frills on it and a long black crepe that went down behind to the waist and she wore that for what was thought a proper length of time in respect to her husband
Interviewer:  huh that's interesting um say on an average sort of day if someone asks you how you're feeling what would you answer
579:  {NW} you might say pretty good pretty well fine
Interviewer:  okay and when you're getting old and your joints start giving you trouble you call that
579:  well they used to say rheumatic now they say arthritic
Interviewer:  okay and what's the noun they say you've got what
579:  arthritis or rheumatism
Interviewer:  okay and a very severe sore throat that children used to have dip
579:  tonsillitis
Interviewer:  or dip
579:  strep throat
Interviewer:  where they'd choke up and die from it
579:  croup
Interviewer:  or dip- dipther-
579:  what
Interviewer:  dipther-
579:  strep throat
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  {D: streptococci}
Interviewer:  did you ever hear um something that children would die from they'd choke up they'd get blisters on the inside of the throat
579:  I don't know what they got but croup a good many of them those days
Interviewer:  what about it starts um it starts with a D dipth-
579:  oh oh diphtheria
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  yes I forgot about that
Interviewer:  and a disease where your skin and your eyeballs turn yellow
579:  skin and what
Interviewer:  your skin and your eyeballs turn yellow
579:  jaundice
Interviewer:  okay
579:  I know I had it once
Interviewer:  oh really
579:  it robbed me of all my energy I just couldn't do a thing
Interviewer:  {NW} and when you have a a pain down here and you have to have an operation
579:  appendicitis
Interviewer:  and if you ate something that didn't agree with you and it came back up you'd say you had to
579:  vomit it or what's the other word uh throw it up
Interviewer:  {NW} both of those are nice ways of saying that
579:  what
Interviewer:  both of those are nice ways of of saying that
579:  both of 'em what
Interviewer:  are nice expressions to use
579:  vomit would be better
Interviewer:  {NW} what about a really crude way of saying that
579:  puke {NW}
Interviewer:  and if if a person vomited you'd say he was sick
579:  at the stomach
Interviewer:  and if a boy kept on going over to the same girls house and was spending a lot of time with her you'd say that he was he was seriously interested in her you'd say he was
579:  you might say in love with her or he's soft on her
Interviewer:  would you ever say he's courting her or sparking her
579:  {X} often when marriage was contemplated
Interviewer:  then what would you say
579:  he's courting her
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  very seldom said wooing her
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  always courting her
Interviewer:  uh huh and he would be called her
579:  lover beau
Interviewer:  and she would be his
579:  girl or if it was known that they were going to marry fiancee
Interviewer:  okay and if a boy came home with lipstick on his collar
579:  #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 you'd say # he had been doing what
579:  smooching or necking
Interviewer:  okay and when a girl stops letting the boy come over to see her you'd say that she
579:  if the thing was really serious we would say that she had rejected him
Interviewer:  {NW} like if she asked him to ma he asked her to marry him
579:  yes
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  or if she uh either was evident that he had serious intentions she rejected him
Interviewer:  what about um say they were engaged and all of a sudden she
579:  broke it off
Interviewer:  {NW} but do you ever say turned him down or gave him the sack or
579:  turned him down yes
Interviewer:  uh huh but if she didn't turn him down they went ahead and got
579:  married
Interviewer:  um any joking ways of saying that
579:  hitched
Interviewer:  okay and at a wedding the boy that stands up with the groom is called a
579:  the best man
Interviewer:  and the woman that stands up with the bride
579:  the maid of honor
Interviewer:  and do you remember a long time ago um if people would get married other people would make a lot of noise fire off rifles and
579:  we called it shivaree but the real word C-H-I-R C-H-I-V-A-R-A-E shivaree French I think chi no C-H-I-V-A-R-I-R-I-E
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  I forgot the exact form of it shivaree is a count is a corruption
Interviewer:  {NW} um say if you had gone to New Orleans last weekend you'd say last week I went
579:  to New Orleans
Interviewer:  would you say down or up or over
579:  down most likely
Interviewer:  how do you use down and up and over
579:  down'd be southward north would be upward up to
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  over to Monroe or over to Jacksonville
Interviewer:  {NW} and say if there were some trouble at a party you'd say the police came and they didn't arrest just one or two of 'em they arrested the
579:  whole bunch
Interviewer:  okay and when young people go out in the evening and move around on the floor to music you'd call that a
579:  they used to call it dancing but it's not dancing now
Interviewer:  {NW} do you remember what they'd call the dances that that held at home
579:  the dances what
Interviewer:  that that hold at home
579:  just a home dance
Interviewer:  okay and if children get out of school at 4 o clock you'd say 4 o clock is when school
579:  lets out
Interviewer:  and after vacation children might ask when does school
579:  after vacation what
Interviewer:  they might ask when does school
579:  they might what
Interviewer:  children might ask when does school what again
579:  started to school again
Interviewer:  okay and if a boy left home to go to school and didn't show up in school that day
579:  played hooky
Interviewer:  okay and after kindergarten you go into the
579:  oh I'm old my deaf now
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  being a bachelor
Interviewer:  well what was the the um the grade or class that that you went into when you were six years old you call that
579:  they didn't have any fixed er- limits those days
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  primary school or grade school later on
Interviewer:  what what was the first grade or class you went into you call that the
579:  oh I went to a private school conducted by my aunt when I was quite young
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  and there were no fixed specific names for them in those days the grade
Interviewer:  what would you call it a primary or first reader or first grade
579:  we used to have readers {X} first second third and so on reader I don't know whether they have it now or not
Interviewer:  when did you use the first reader
579:  when did we use it oh I don't remember
Interviewer:  um and years ago children sat on benches but now they sit at
579:  desks
Interviewer:  and each child has his own
579:  desk
Interviewer:  and if you wanted to check out a book you'd go to the
579:  library
Interviewer:  and to mail a package
579:  to the post office
Interviewer:  and you'd stay overnight in a strange town at a
579:  {X}
579:  I could start at Jackson Street on the north end and go out to Harris Street on the south end one side and then the other and record a great many things about people I knew who lived in those houses I said- I said you might needed {X} someday when somebody dies or gets famous. he said yes we'd like to have that so I said I'll send Gordon {B} up there with a recording tape. so I- I did just that and some day they may find it useful because I couldn't think of another person my age who doesn't have a soft or anything arteries in the brain or just plain senile
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  and I hope it doesn't prove useful someday.
Interviewer:  very interesting I um you stay overnight in a strange town at a
579:  hotel.
Interviewer:  okay and if you had to go to the hospital the woman that would look after you would be called a
579:  nurse I had 'em bout three thousand dollars worth
Interviewer:  {NW} um that's when you were in that convalescent home after your fall?
579:  let's see I went to the hospital on the fourth of July and I had nurses three a day for a long time and then two a day up to the thirty first of August.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  thank goodness they had some insurance and good old Medicare.
Interviewer:  um you catch a train at the
579:  depot or station usually depot.
Interviewer:  or the full name for that would be rail
579:  railroad.
Interviewer:  okay and say if if two streets cross and well I could sort of make a sketch of it um {NS} say if two streets cross and you're on this corner and you want to get over to this corner instead of walking like this and this
579:  diagonally across.
Interviewer:  uh huh is there any expression you can think of to describe movement like that?
579:  oh yes uh catty corner.
Interviewer:  okay how else do you use that word catty cornered?
579:  what about it?
Interviewer:  how how can you give me some more examples of how you'd use catty corner?
579:  well that was it you're going in a diagonal direction.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  and I don't know how to spelled it well it's cat a cornered or cat uh cornered.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm. and
579:  either one is risky. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
579:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  you'd tell the bus driver this next corner is where I want if you were riding a bus you'd say this next corner is
579:  is where I get off.
Interviewer:  okay or where I want
579:  want to get off.
Interviewer:  okay and here in Warren county Vicksburg is the
579:  county seat.
Interviewer:  and the police in the town are supposed to maintain
579:  peace.
Interviewer:  or law
579:  well yes maintain the law.
Interviewer:  what there's an expression for that you know they say if politician who thinks that police should get tougher he'd say that he's for
579:  he'd say the police were what?
Interviewer:  if if someone wanted the police to get tougher they'd say they were for law
579:  well I can't conceive of a situation like that it might come up but I I-I've never known of such
Interviewer:  well I'm talking about order and law and you'd say the um the police in the town are supposed to maintain law
579:  enforce the law
Interviewer:  and talking about order too you'd say
579:  law and order both they go together.
Interviewer:  okay um and before they had the electric chair murderers were
579:  hanged.
Interviewer:  and you'd say the man went out and what himself?
579:  the man what out?
Interviewer:  and
579:  hanged himself.
Interviewer:  and are there any other terms for the civil war?
579:  yes the war of the rebellion
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  #1 thats the #
Interviewer:  #2 the thing is #
579:  only other one I can think of.
Interviewer:  do people refer to it as the war of the rebellion?
579:  no we just refer many years we refer to it simply as the war that was before world war one
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  or after that the civil war to be more exact.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. and
579:  sometimes referred to by writers as the war between the states.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm.
579:  the most tragic thing that ever befell this country. my goodness.
Interviewer:  do people around here remember that very much? I mean do they
579:  #1 not not #
Interviewer:  #2 have a #
579:  not now they've all died you see that was beginning in eighteen sixty-five remember rightly.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  which be uh which would be a hundred and three years ago and there not many left who remember it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  #1 My mother was uh #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
579:  eleven years old no yes eleven years old when Vicksburg was besieged besieged.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  {NW} and let's see I think they went out into the county somewhere and it was not as I remember in the path of the union army.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  I just don't have much knowledge of that.
Interviewer:  Does your mother remembers that remember that um being
579:  she what?
Interviewer:  your mother's people lived close enough to Vicksburg so that when the war on Vicksburg came that that they had to to flee?
579:  Let's see eighteen sixty-three she was eleven years old they probably lived in town then right around the corner here. {NW}
Interviewer:  Um these are some names of some states and some cities um the biggest city in this country is in?
579:  New York state.
Interviewer:  Okay and Baltimore is in?
579:  Maryland.
Interviewer:  And what are some names of some of the um the states in in the south or the states around here?
579:  Kentucky's on the border Missouri's on the border there are Virginia the Carolinas Georgia Florida Alabama Mississippi Louisiana Tennessee
Interviewer:  and Little Rock is the capitol-
579:  Arkansas capitol of Arkansas yes abouts forget about Arkansas Texas oh well that was on the other side of the river but they were really in the south.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and Tulsa is in?
579:  Oklahoma.
Interviewer:  and the biggest city in Maryland is?
579:  Baltimore.
Interviewer:  and the capitol of the United States is?
579:  Washington District of Columbia.
Interviewer:  Okay how's that usually referred to as?
579:  Washington D.C.
Interviewer:  Okay and the capitol of um or the biggest city in Missouri?
579:  St. Louis.
Interviewer:  And the old seaport in South Carolina?
579:  Charleston.
Interviewer:  and
579:  charming city have you ever been there?
Interviewer:  no I haven't
579:  oh you must go there sometime been there's not good English
Interviewer:  been there's what?
579:  have you ever been there no have you ever visited there have gone there?
Interviewer:  do you still have relatives living there?
579:  no they left there about eighteen fifty eighteen fifty.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm
579:  my father and his family.
Interviewer:  you don't have any cousins or distant relatives that you know of there?
579:  not that I know of.
Interviewer:  um and the big city in Illinois?
579:  Chicago of course.
Interviewer:  and what are some of the bigger cities in Alabama?
579:  Birmingham Mobile they're the largest two.
Interviewer:  and the capitol?
579:  Montgomery.
Interviewer:  and the city up in the mountains in North Carolina?
579:  Asheville.
Interviewer:  and what are some of the cities in Tennessee?
579:  Memphis Nashville Jackson that's not so very large uh Chattanooga.
Interviewer:  and in East Tennessee in the mountains?
579:  east Tennessee Knoxville.
Interviewer:  okay.
579:  about to forget that.
Interviewer:  and some of the cities in Georgia?
579:  Atlanta Macon Savannah
Interviewer:  and uh the city where um Fort Benning is near?
579:  oh yes Fort Benning that's a military establishment exclusively isn't it
Interviewer:  uh huh what what city is that near or town?
579:  don't know Columbus?
Interviewer:  okay and the big city in Southern Ohio?
579:  Cleveland is the northern part of Ohio Columbus Akron
Interviewer:  and Cin- Cin- the the city on the Ohio River
579:  oh Cincinnati.
Interviewer:  and the biggest city in Kentucky?
579:  Louisville.
Interviewer:  and the biggest city in Louisiana?
579:  New Orleans.
Interviewer:  and the capitol?
579:  Baton Rouge.
Interviewer:  and um these are some countries um Belfast is in?
579:  Ireland.
Interviewer:  and Paris is in?
579:  France.
Interviewer:  and Moscow is in?
579:  huh?
Interviewer:  Moscow.
579:  Russia they can have it. {NW}
Interviewer:  have you ever been to Russia?
579:  no and I won't go. the first thing you knew you'd be aiming a camera at somebody and there'd be a hand on your shoulder and you'd be put in jail. no confidence in them.
Interviewer:  I guess you've known people who have gone who didn't
579:  what?
Interviewer:  I guess you've known people who have gone and had bad
579:  oh yes I know a number of persons who been there. I see from a friend a newspaper clipping and it had a long picture taken with two or three cameras and the pieces put together showing uh Moscow and the river what's that river uh I forget Moscow River maybe and I thought well now I wonder if his guide saw him taking these pictures or how he got by with it no indeed they may have Russia I don't want to go there.
Interviewer:  {NW} and um say if someone asked you to go with them somewhere and you're not sure you want to you'd say well I don't know what I want to go or not.
579:  I would rather that indecisive I'd say I don't want to go there or I want to go there I'd like to go there.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  I wouldn't be indecisive about it I'd I know what I feel about certain places
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  Spain for one the treatment they accorded Protestants and pastors were simply barbarous had no use for that country.
Interviewer:  I've heard that they've been pretty tough on young Americans going there too.
579:  I don't know haven't heard anything about that but the attitude towards pr- toward Protestants has relaxed a great deal.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  and a good many of them visit Spain.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm say um if you want someone to to go with you somewhere you might say well I want to go what he goes?
579:  I would say yes or no.
Interviewer:  well if you want him to go with you you might say well I won't go what he goes.
579:  I I won't go what?
Interviewer:  If you want him to go with you you'd say well I'm not going what he goes too. would you say I'm not going without he goes or lessen he goes or 'un-
579:  #1 I don't #
Interviewer:  #2 less he #
579:  quite understand your question. you you ask a person whether he would like to go to such a place with you?
Interviewer:  no um if you're not going some place um by yourself if you want somebody else to go with you you might say
579:  let's go to England.
Interviewer:  or you might say well I won't go what you go
579:  unless you go.
Interviewer:  okay and you might say well I had a choice of two things and at first I was going to do this but then I decided to do that what of this I decided I'd do that and
579:  instead of the other or in preference to the other.
Interviewer:  and one of the largest Protestant churches in the south is the?
579:  in the south {NW} I don't know.
Interviewer:  well what are some there's a methodist church and
579:  oh you mean the denomination?
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  baptists.
Interviewer:  okay and if two people become members you'd say they
579:  immersed.
Interviewer:  or they what the church
579:  uh baptized. what?
Interviewer:  or they become members of the church you say they they what the
579:  I just say become members of or joined.
Interviewer:  okay and you go to church to pray to?
579:  God
Interviewer:  and the choir and the organist provide the?
579:  music
Interviewer:  and the enemy of God is called the?
579:  the what?
Interviewer:  the enemy of god is called the?
579:  the devil or Satan.
Interviewer:  okay what would you tell children who was gonna come get 'em if they didn't behave?
579:  what if they had children what?
Interviewer:  what what would people tell children was gonna come get 'em if they didn't behave?
579:  you behaved very badly you were bad.
Interviewer:  or the what's gonna get you if you do that?
579:  wh- the what?
Interviewer:  did you ever hear um a grown person tell a child if you do that the devil will get y
579:  oh yes yes
Interviewer:  would they say the devil or?
579:  yes wouldn't say a Satan they'd say the devil.
Interviewer:  uh huh what about the bad man or the boogerman?
579:  I think the boogerman's generally for just some imaginary evil person in the dark.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  but uh sometimes they would say the bad man but usually the devil.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
579:  there's seldom Satan.
Interviewer:  what would people think they'd see around a graveyard at night?
579:  what do people think of what?
Interviewer:  they see around a graveyard at night.
579:  they would think that you might be ghoul g h o u l
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  or I don't know what else they'd think up to some mischief.
Interviewer:  uh huh and a house that people are scared to go in?
579:  a haunted house.
Interviewer:  what would people see in a haunted or think they'd they would see in a haunted house?
579:  ghosts.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  or as the colored folks say ghosties.
Interviewer:  okay. and you might tell someone well you better put a sweater on it's not really cold outside but it's
579:  it's chilly
Interviewer:  or it's getting what chilly?
579:  what?
Interviewer:  would you say it's getting sort of chilly or kind of chilly?
579:  you might either one of those or rather
Interviewer:  okay
579:  rather chilly.
Interviewer:  and
579:  or quite quite chilly.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm if you uh what would you say to a friend that you hadn't seen in a long time? how would you express your feelings about seeing 'em?
579:  glad to see you.
Interviewer:  okay would you ever say proud to see you?
579:  no I don't. {X} know of any persons who do.
Interviewer:  uh huh say if someone had about a thousand acres of land you'd say he had a what of land? he had a
579:  well down here we might refer to that many acres as a plantation not a farm but a plantation.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm well would you ever say he had a good deal of land or a right smart of land?
579:  not right smart, not educated persons. a good deal of land.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  uh a great many acres or a large plantation.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm but uneducated people refer to it as a right smart?
579:  yes mainly colored folks.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm.
579:  this here young lady how much more of this is there?
Interviewer:  it shouldn't take more than about thirty minutes more at most it's not much more.
579:  heavens it's ten minutes after twelve alright let's go.
Interviewer:  okay um in when a friend of yours says good morning what might you ask 'em then?
579:  how much what?
Interviewer:  when a friend of yours tells you good morning what might you ask him then? if you're asking him about his health
579:  oh it's just a greeting.
Interviewer:  what would you ask him then?
579:  how are you feeling?
Interviewer:  okay and when you're introduced to a stranger is there anything you'd ask him?
579:  glad to meet you happy to know you.
Interviewer:  okay.
579:  usually the first one.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and if some people were leaving your house you might say well I hope I see you?
579:  soon a- again soon.
Interviewer:  okay and how do you greet someone around December twenty fifth?
579:  {NW} that's easy Merry Christmas.
Interviewer:  okay any other expression you've ever heard?
579:  no might say happy Christmas.
Interviewer:  what about Christmas gift?
579:  that goes back to the negroes of s eighty years ago. they would be expecting a handout and they'd see a white person and hold out a hand say Christmas gift.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm.
579:  and generally coin or something was forthcoming that's not done much now.
Interviewer:  what do you say on the first of January?
579:  happy new year.
Interviewer:  did you ever hear new years gift?
579:  no
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and you'd say I have to go downtown to do some?
579:  {X} uh shopping.
Interviewer:  okay and say if you had just bought something you'd say the storekeeper took out a piece of paper and?
579:  wrapped it up.
Interviewer:  and when I got home I
579:  unwrapped it.
Interviewer:  and if you had to sell something for less than you paid for it you'd say you have to sell it at a?
579:  at a loss.
Interviewer:  and if you like something but don't have enough money for it you'd say well I like it but it?
579:  I can't afford it.
Interviewer:  because it what too much?
579:  cost too much.
Interviewer:  and on the first of the month the bill is? when it's time to pay your bill you say the bill is?
579:  mighty big.
Interviewer:  or it's it's time to pay it you'd say it's?
579:  it's due now.
Interviewer:  okay and if you belong to a club you have to pay your?
579:  dues.
Interviewer:  and if you don't have any money you could try to go to a bank and?
579:  borrow.
Interviewer:  and you say he ran down the springboard and what into the water?
579:  dived some people say dove which is ridiculous.
Interviewer:  uh huh what about um you say several children have already?
579:  dived.
Interviewer:  uh huh but I was to scared to?
579:  dive that's me.
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
579:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  {NW} and when you dive in and hit the water flat you call that a?
579:  belly buster.
Interviewer:  okay and you'd say he dived in and what across?
579:  well years ago when we were first learning to swim that was called dog dog dog style.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  but later on they turn on one side and then the other and that's called a cross stroke I believe isn't it?
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  much more efficient.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm you say he dived in and what across the?
579:  swam.
Interviewer:  what's that?
579:  swam.
Interviewer:  and I have?
579:  swum the lake.
Interviewer:  and someone didn't know how to swim and got in the water you might say that he?
579:  might drown.
Interviewer:  and you say yesterday he?
579:  almost drowned.
Interviewer:  and so if that after he went down the third time you'd say that he had?
579:  drowned.
Interviewer:  and um a child puts his head on the ground then turns a
579:  puts his head on the ground.
Interviewer:  yeah and turns a and rolls on over on puts his head on the ground and then turns a
579:  rolls over?
Interviewer:  uh huh on land not not in the water.
579:  I don't quite get that.
Interviewer:  well a children out playing they'd its uh you put your you squat down you put your head on the ground and then you roll on over you say.
579:  oh a somersault.
Interviewer:  okay and what does a baby do before it can walk?
579:  crawls.
Interviewer:  and you'd say that would be a hard mountain to?
579:  climb.
Interviewer:  but last year my neighbor?
579:  climbed it.
Interviewer:  but I have never?
579:  climbed it.
Interviewer:  and you throw a ball and ask somebody to?
579:  catch it.
Interviewer:  and I threw it and he?
579:  missed it.
Interviewer:  or he?
579:  caught it.
Interviewer:  and I've been fishing but I haven't?
579:  caught anything.
Interviewer:  and if you want to get someplace in a hurry instead of walking you might?
579:  run.
Interviewer:  and you say he what all the way home?
579:  he what?
Interviewer:  he what all the way home?
579:  ran all the way home.
Interviewer:  and you say they have what the mile?
579:  they have run a mile.
Interviewer:  and if you didn't know where a man was born you might ask where does he what from?
579:  come from.
Interviewer:  and you'd say he what in on the train last night?
579:  {X} he what?
Interviewer:  he what here on the train last night? using that word you'd say he
579:  traveled?
Interviewer:  or talking about using the word come you'd say he?
579:  rode.
Interviewer:  or using the word come?
579:  oh came.
Interviewer:  okay and you'd say he has what?
579:  come.
Interviewer:  and you say with your eyes you?
579:  see.
Interviewer:  and I what her outside?
579:  I what?
Interviewer:  yesterday I what?
579:  saw.
Interviewer:  and you say we have?
579:  seen.
Interviewer:  and um talking about driving your car you'd say I have never what?
579:  driven a car.
Interviewer:  and say she walked up to the altar and she?
579:  to the what?
Interviewer:  she walked up to the altar and she what down?
579:  the author?
Interviewer:  the altar in a
579:  altar oh yes bow down.
Interviewer:  or got down on her knees she
579:  knee kneel
Interviewer:  okay what was that?
579:  kneel? kneel before the altar?
Interviewer:  okay um and you'd say yesterday she walked up there and she?
579:  knelt.
Interviewer:  and if you were tired you might say I think I'll go over to the couch and?
579:  sleep lie down.
Interviewer:  okay and you say he was really sick all morning he just
579:  said what?
Interviewer:  you say he was really sick he couldn't even sit up just all morning he what?
579:  lay down.
Interviewer:  and tell me about things you see in your sleep you'd say this is what I
579:  dreamt.
Interviewer:  and
579:  or dreamed.
Interviewer:  often when I go to sleep I
579:  have dreams.
Interviewer:  or often when I go to sleep I using it as a verb
579:  I dream.
Interviewer:  but I usually can't remember what I have
579:  dreamt I dreamed.
Interviewer:  and you said I dreamed I was falling and just when I was about to hit the ground I
579:  I I dreamed that I was falling?
Interviewer:  uh huh but
579:  just before I hit the ground I woke I woke up.
Interviewer:  okay and if you bring your foot down heavy on the floor you say you?
579:  stamped or stomped.
Interviewer:  okay and if a boy sees a girl at church and wants to go home with her he might ask may I?
579:  go home with you or take you home.
Interviewer:  okay and you might tell a child now that stove is very hot so.
579:  that what?
Interviewer:  that stove is very hot so
579:  don't touch it.
Interviewer:  and do you remember um oh say if you needed a hammer you might tell someone go what me the hammer?
579:  a hammer?
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  you you would you would say that you needed a hammer to drive a nail is that it?
Interviewer:  well if if you needed a hammer it was inside the house you'd tell someone go what me the hammer?
579:  oh go and bring me a hammer.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  we always say fetch now {X}
Interviewer:  uh huh um and you remember a game that children used to play where one child would be it and the other children would hide?
579:  hide and seek yep.
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  we had another name for it I've forgotten it.
Interviewer:  do you ever hear hoop I spy or?
579:  yes
Interviewer:  {D: hoopie high or something}
579:  high high spy. I don't remember much about that don't remember if that was the same as hide and seek or not.
Interviewer:  uh huh what would you call the tree that you could touch and be safe?
579:  a tree what?
Interviewer:  the tree that you could touch and be safe when you were playing.
579:  home wasn't it home base?
Interviewer:  and in football you run towards the?
579:  football you just what?
Interviewer:  in football you run towards the?
579:  goal.
Interviewer:  okay and you say there's no need to hurry if I get there first I'll?
579:  wait for you.
Interviewer:  and if you were about punish a child he might ask you not to punish him just give me another?
579:  chance.
Interviewer:  and if a man was in a very good mood you could say he's in a very good?
579:  humor.
Interviewer:  and you might say well we have termites now but I'm sure the exterminating company will get?
579:  rid of them.
Interviewer:  okay and you say um I don't smoke cigarettes but he?
579:  does.
Interviewer:  and you say
579:  and might add he smokes like a furnace
Interviewer:  {NW} and you say well he didn't know what was going on but he?
579:  soon caught on or learned.
Interviewer:  okay and say a child left his best pencil on the desk and came back and didn't find it there he'd say I bet somebody
579:  swiped it or stole it or took it.
Interviewer:  okay and if a child learns something new like maybe learned to whistle you might ask well who?
579:  taught you to whistle.
Interviewer:  okay.
579:  or they might say how to
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  which I don't believe is right.
Interviewer:  uh huh and say if I ask you when are you going to Miami you might say well as things stand now we're what to go next Wednesday?
579:  planning.
Interviewer:  okay do you ever say we're fixing to go?
579:  say what?
Interviewer:  do you ever hear
579:  oh fixing oh yes I don't think that's good English though.
Interviewer:  what does it mean?
579:  preparing.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and you'd say I have just what him a letter?
579:  have just written him a letter.
Interviewer:  and yesterday he?
579:  wrote me.
Interviewer:  and tomorrow I will?
579:  write him.
Interviewer:  and you say well I wrote him and it was time I was getting a?
579:  reply answer.
Interviewer:  and you say well um you put the letter in the envelope then you take out your pen and you?
579:  address it.
Interviewer:  do you ever hear back the letter?
579:  oh yes but uh oh good gracious that's not used in good circles.
Interviewer:  who would say that?
579:  the persons who hadn't had much education and colored persons.
Interviewer:  how would they say that?
579:  back then ago.
Interviewer:  uh huh and you said well I was gonna write him but I didn't know his?
579:  wha- write him what?
Interviewer:  I was gonna write him a letter but I didn't know hi
579:  his address.
Interviewer:  and what would you call a child that's always running and telling on other children?
579:  tattletale.
Interviewer:  okay would you use that word about a grown person?
579:  {D: either that or tailbarrow.}
Interviewer:  mm-hmm. and if you wanted to brighten up your room for a party and you had a lot of things growing in your yard you'd go out and?
579:  and pick some flowers.
Interviewer:  okay and something that a child plays with you'd call a?
579:  plaything toy.
Interviewer:  do you ever say play pretty?
579:  what?
Interviewer:  play-pretty.
579:  oh I've heard that expression but not having had children around me I don't know exactly what it means.
Interviewer:  {NW} what what would people say?
579:  would a play-pretty be a noun or a an a verb?
Interviewer:  I think it'd be a noun I don't I don't know is it used as a verb here?
579:  it could be I don't know I just don't know that expression at all.
Interviewer:  uh huh and
579:  I think it means a toy.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm you say that's the book that you what me?
579:  sent me.
Interviewer:  or that you?
579:  the book you say loaned.
Interviewer:  or um for Christmas you?
579:  gave me.
Interviewer:  okay and say if you had borrowed something you say well when I'm finished with it I'll what it back?
579:  return it or bring it back.
Interviewer:  or or when I'm finished with it I'll I'll
579:  I bring it back or return it.
Interviewer:  or another word for that um I'll give?
579:  don't know any other.
Interviewer:  well for Christmas you what each other presents?
579:  for for Christmas?
Interviewer:  well if you heard the expression it's better to what than to receive?
579:  give than to receive oh yes.
Interviewer:  and you say um you have what me that book you have?
579:  given me that book
Interviewer:  okay and you say I'm glad I carried my umbrella cause we hadn't gone half a block when it what to rain?
579:  began to rain.
Interviewer:  and you might ask um what time does the movie?
579:  start.
Interviewer:  or r
579:  or begin.
Interviewer:  and you say it must have already?
579:  started.
Interviewer:  or it must have already?
579:  begun.
Interviewer:  and say you give someone a bracelet and you wanna see how it looks on her you'd say well why don't you?
579:  a bracelet you say?
Interviewer:  uh huh you say why don't you?
579:  put some bangles on it.
Interviewer:  or you wanna?
579:  fasten it.
Interviewer:  you want her to um you wanna see how it looks on her wrist you say well why don't you?
579:  look at it?
Interviewer:  okay the opposite of take it off is?
579:  put it on.
Interviewer:  okay and you say you can't get through there because the highway department's got their machines in and the road's all?
579:  blocked.
Interviewer:  or all tor
579:  #1 what? #
Interviewer:  #2 using the # expression tear up you'd say the road's all? tor
579:  torn up torn up.
Interviewer:  okay and say um that wasn't an accident he did that?
579:  accidentally.
Interviewer:  or he didn't do it accidentally he did it?
579:  he was in an accident?
Interviewer:  no something that someone meant to do.
579:  oh
Interviewer:  it did it intentionally you'd say he did that?
579:  accidentally or unintentionally.
Interviewer:  or if he did it intentionally you'd say he did it?
579:  purposely.
Interviewer:  or would you say a purpose or for purpose or on purpose?
579:  on purpose.
Interviewer:  okay and say if you had a question I might say well I don't know the answer to your question you better go what somebody else?
579:  ask someone else.
Interviewer:  and you'd say so then I went and what somebody else?
579:  what?
Interviewer:  so then I went and
579:  asked someone else.
Interviewer:  and you might say you're the second person who has?
579:  told me that or
Interviewer:  or who has? a
579:  asked me that.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  oh {NW}
Interviewer:  and and you say those little boys like to what each other?
579:  fight.
Interviewer:  okay and every time they met they
579:  every time what?
Interviewer:  every time they met they
579:  they fought.
Interviewer:  and ever since they were small they have?
579:  fought.
Interviewer:  and you say she what him with a big knife she?
579:  with a big what?
Interviewer:  with a big knife she
579:  you mean one person striking another?
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  cut it.
Interviewer:  or would you say stabbed or stobbed?
579:  well colored folks would say stobbed
Interviewer:  mm-hmm.
579:  but you wouldn't have that motion for a stab a stab would be like that.
Interviewer:  it'd be direct {X} um say if if a teacher went in the classroom and found a picture on the um blackboard she might ask well who?
579:  did this or drew this.
Interviewer:  okay and if you were gonna lift something heavy like a piece of machinery up on a roof you might use pulley blocks and a rope to what?
579:  lower it or let it down.
Interviewer:  or to get it up you'd?
579:  oh to get it up
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  raise it or get it up.
Interviewer:  would you ever say hoist or heist?
579:  we always said heist here which was incorrect.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  yes we used the expression heist frequently.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and now could you start counting slowly?
579:  what?
Interviewer:  would you start counting slowly?
579:  doing what slowly?
Interviewer:  counting.
579:  spell that
Interviewer:  count to
579:  oh counting?
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  we would just say counting slowly
Interviewer:  well would would you do that count to fifteen?
579:  I don't wait I don't get your question
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
579:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  would would you count to fifteen now slowly?
579:  you want me to count to fifteen slowly? what's the sense of that?
Interviewer:  well it's just different pronunciations you know?
579:  one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen.
Interviewer:  okay and the number after nineteen?
579:  what about nineteen?
Interviewer:  the number after ninet-
579:  twenty.
Interviewer:  and
579:  now this girl out here when she was in England say twenty which is correct t w e n one syllable t y twenty that's correct we don't say that.
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  we say twenty thirty forty and so on.
Interviewer:  uh huh and um the number after twenty six is?
579:  twenty seven.
Interviewer:  and after sixty-nine?
579:  sixty.
Interviewer:  sixty-nine is
579:  se- seventy.
Interviewer:  and after ninety-nine?
579:  one hundred.
Interviewer:  and nine hundred ninety-nine?
579:  one thousand.
Interviewer:  and ten times one hundred thousand?
579:  one million.
Interviewer:  and if you had a line of people standing somewhere the person at the head of the line would be called the?
579:  if you want to do what?
Interviewer:  if you had a line of say eleven people the last man in line would be the eleventh man um the man at the head of the line would be the?
579:  the first man.
Interviewer:  okay keep going.
579:  what?
Interviewer:  behind him would be the?
579:  the the what?
Interviewer:  behind him would be?
579:  the second man.
Interviewer:  keep going.
579:  what?
Interviewer:  {NW}
579:  third fourth fifth sixth seventh eighth ninth tenth eleventh twelfth
Interviewer:  #1 okay #
579:  #2 thirteenth # fourteenth fifteenth.
Interviewer:  and you say sometimes you feel you get your good luck just a little at a time but your bad luck comes all?
579:  at the same time
Interviewer:  or all you say all at
579:  at once.
Interviewer:  okay and if you said something two times you would be saying it?
579:  twice.
Interviewer:  and would you name the months of the year slowly?
579:  January February March April May June July August September October November December.
Interviewer:  and the days of the week?
579:  Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday.
Interviewer:  is there another name for either Saturday or Sunday?
579:  other names?
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  {D: well the color folks call Saturday used to saday.}
Interviewer:  uh-huh
579:  uh the old timers a hundred years ago would refer to Sunday as the sabbath or the sabbath day.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  but I never hear that now.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and if you meet someone during the early part of the day what do you say as a greeting?
579:  good morning even though it might be one minute before noon.
Interviewer:  uh-huh. um if were leaving someone around eleven o clock in the morning would you have a greeting you'd use when you were leaving them?
579:  we'll just say m- m- if I'm meeting someone you say?
Interviewer:  if you're leaving.
579:  leaving just goodbye.
Interviewer:  uh huh
579:  any time of day or night.
Interviewer:  do you ever use the expression good day?
579:  there no I never use it or sometimes I get pretty particular to say good forenoon but that s- sounds rather stilted.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm.
579:  or good afternoon is more likely to be used.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  or good evening
Interviewer:  mm-hmm what's it- excuse me go ahead
579:  or goodnight.
Interviewer:  uh huh what's the difference between afternoon and evening?
579:  that's open to question I should say after six o clock it's evening.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and if you had to get up and start work before the sun was shining you'd say we had to get up before?
579:  sunrise or sun up.
Interviewer:  and we worked until?
579:  sundown or sunset mostly sundown.
Interviewer:  and you say this morning I saw the sun?
579:  rise.
Interviewer:  and at six o clock the sun?
579:  was up.
Interviewer:  or the sun did what?
579:  rose.
Interviewer:  and when I got outside the sun had already?
579:  risen or set.
Interviewer:  and you say um today is Thursday so Wednesday was Thursday is today Wednesday was?
579:  yesterday.
Interviewer:  and Friday is?
579:  tomorrow.
Interviewer:  and if someone came here on a Sunday not last Sunday but a week earlier than that you'd say he came here?
579:  last Sunday.
Interviewer:  not last Sunday a week
579:  oh Sunday before last.
Interviewer:  okay and if someone was going to leave on a Sunday not not next Sunday but a week beyond that?
579:  Sunday week.
Interviewer:  okay and if someone stayed from the first to the fifteenth you'd say he stayed about?
579:  two weeks or half the month.
Interviewer:  okay and if you wanted to know the time you'd ask somebody?
579:  if you want to what?
Interviewer:  know the time.
579:  what time is it?
Interviewer:  and you'd look at your?
579:  wristwatch.
Interviewer:  and if it was midway between seven o'clock and eight o'clock you'd say that it was?
579:  seven thirty.
Interviewer:  or half
579:  half past seven.
Interviewer:  and if it was fifteen minutes later than that you?
579:  four-oh-eight.
Interviewer:  and if you had been doing something for a long time you might say I've been doing that for quite a?
579:  while.
Interviewer:  and you'd say nineteen seventy two was last year
579:  last year
Interviewer:  what's that?
579:  was last year.
Interviewer:  nineteen seventy-three is
579:  oh nineteen seventy-three is this year.
Interviewer:  okay and if something happened on this day last year you'd say it happened exactly.
579:  a year ago today.
Interviewer:  okay and if a child's just had his third birthday you'd say that he's?
579:  is three years old.
Interviewer:  okay and talking about how tall rooms are you'd say this room's about maybe fifteen?
579:  about how tall what?
Interviewer:  how how tall this room is you'd say it's about?
579:  twelve feet.
Interviewer:  okay and talking about the weather you'd look up at the sky and say I don't like the looks of those black?
579:  clouds.
Interviewer:  and on a day when the sun was shining and there weren't any clouds you'd say that's a?
579:  a beautiful sunshiney day.
Interviewer:  okay and when it's real cloudy and overcast you'd say it was?
579:  threatening.
Interviewer:  what do you mean threatening?
579:  it threatens to rain.
Interviewer:  uh huh what about a day that's just um the sun is you the sun isn't out you can't it's not shining it.
579:  well you might say it was murky or overcast or
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  slightly cloudy.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and if it had been cloudy then the clouds pull away?
579:  it's cleared off.
Interviewer:  okay and a whole lot of rain that just suddenly comes down?
579:  we call it a downpour or a heavy shower.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  or thundershower
Interviewer:  if it's got thunder and lightning in it is it {X}?
579:  well wouldn't wouldn't call it a thunder shower unless there was thunder and lightning.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm is a shower lighter than a downpour?
579:  lasts a shorter time and is generally not as heavy there could be light showers and heavy showers.
Interviewer:  what about something um that just a little rain that just lasts sort of all day?
579:  generally called a drizzle.
Interviewer:  okay what about real fine rain?
579:  a mist.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  now that is used as a verb and I doubt whether that's correct it's misting outside.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm
579:  I just don't believe that's a verb.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm what about if you get up in the morning you can't see across the road you'd say you had a?
579:  still dark.
Interviewer:  or you had a
579:  can't see across a
Interviewer:  yeah because this heavy mist that settled down.
579:  oh
Interviewer:  you'd call that a?
579:  across the room you say?
Interviewer:  no you you can't see outside.
579:  oh foggy.
Interviewer:  or you'd call that a?
579:  a fog or a mist.
Interviewer:  okay and you say all night long the wind?
579:  blew.
Interviewer:  and the wind has what?
579:  stopped.
Interviewer:  or it- it was pretty hard last night but in years past the wind has what harder than that?
579:  fallen or decreased.
Interviewer:  or talking about um the wind blowing you'd say the wind has?
579:  died down.
Interviewer:  okay um and if the wind is died down for if it's getting weaker
579:  yes
Interviewer:  what about if it's getting stronger?
579:  rising.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  or getting stronger.
Interviewer:  and you'd say it started to rain and the wind began to?
579:  blow.
Interviewer:  and the wind has what those clothes off the line?
579:  the wind was what?
Interviewer:  the wind has what those clothes off the line?
579:  those last words the wind has what?
Interviewer:  if you had some clothes out on the
579:  oh
Interviewer:  the wind has what them off?
579:  we might say blown them away.
Interviewer:  okay
579:  or that'd be the main thing
Interviewer:  mm-hmm and if
579:  or off the line.
Interviewer:  mm-hmm if the wind is from this direction you say it's?
579:  from the east or east wind.
Interviewer:  and a wind halfway between south and east you'd call a?
579:  southeast.
Interviewer:  and between south and west?
579:  southwest.
Interviewer:  and east and north?
579:  northeast.
Interviewer:  west and north?
579:  northwest.
Interviewer:  and if no rain comes for weeks and weeks you say you're having a?
579:  a drought.
Interviewer:  okay and if it was um cold enough to kill the tomatoes and flowers you'd say last night we had a?
579:  frost.
Interviewer:  what if it's harder than that you'd call it a?
579:  freeze a hard freeze.
Interviewer:  okay and you'd say um it was so cold last night that the pipes?
579:  burst.
Interviewer:  because the water?
579:  froze.
Interviewer:  and you'd say so you say the pipes have?
579:  frozen.
Interviewer:  or and the wa- and since they?
579:  bu and burst
Interviewer:  they have
579:  burst.
Interviewer:  okay and if it gets much colder the pipes might?
579:  freeze again.
Interviewer:  and
579:  burst
Interviewer:  and you say it was so cold last night that the lake?
579:  froze.
Interviewer:  would you use the same word if it just sort of froze around the edges?
579:  no
Interviewer:  what would you say?
579:  we would just say that it froze around the edges.
Interviewer:  okay well that's all I wanted to ask you.