Interviewer: {X} {NW} Are you the one who can draw the flowers? Aux: yes, ma'am. I could Interviewer: Wandering Jew look at that well, what do they call that over here Aux: yeah, yes ma'am they call it a cane Interviewer: that's what Mrs. {B} said. #1 She called it something like that # Aux: #2 yes ma'am # {X} Interviewer: and i have some, but they told me it was called Wandering Jew Aux: maybe, I mean Interviewer: it changes, you know, from one place to another. What you call some plants Aux: I just called what the, I first heard it by Interviewer: yeah, that's what what I do too but it sure is pretty Aux: thank you Interviewer: you've got a green thumb my ferns die Aux: yes I know {D:Words} but they come back out after you get warm again in the spring Interviewer: they told me mine shouldn't have any sun Aux: So this one sitting right there and it's got brown all over them {X} i think the sun was too much on it Interviewer: yeah, this hot sun, it really #1 {X} # Aux: #2 i have one on the back porch # they've been pretty too now but it was looking real quiet out here Interviewer: do you water them very often? Aux: about three times a week well Interviewer: it's outside Aux: yeah Interviewer: and it dries up pretty quickly Aux: when the inside of the house that's when it gets dead to me i just can't hardly have a look if it's inside the house {NS} put them in in the winter and they look terrible when I, once you put them out {X} Interviewer: well, you know, I can't, I can't keep anything over the winter Aux: #1 that's hard for me # Interviewer: #2 because my house is very dark # Aux: #1 my house is little and dark # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Aux: #1 real small # Interviewer: #2 and it, I never get enough light or I'm getting too much water or something # Aux: too much heat. there's something in the house. I don't know {X} Interviewer: yeah, I've {X} all over again Aux: #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # Aux: look so bad when they take them out {X} almost ashamed to put them out in the front Interviewer: the pick up again Aux: they pick up again after you get them out #1 of the house # Interviewer: #2 my God # Aux: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 there's no looking candy about that # Aux: #1 mine did that, I lost some of mine # Interviewer: #2 mine are dead # really Aux: sure did Interviewer: you know, I found out I could keep geraniums over though Aux: no {X} {NS} Interviewer: is those photinia Aux: this is photinia Interviewer: oh this is Aux: yeah, yeah, geraniums. she sent me this Interviewer: oh yeah I- I wasn't sure which one you were pointing at and I know that Aux: piece out on the back porch is a long vine that hangs down Interviewer: what's this Aux: cactu- {X} Interviewer: oh, is that a Christmas cactus Aux: yes ma'am Interviewer: oh Aux: they're a pretty thing for Christmas I put them in a dining room {X} and just let them sit inside the house there but that's be so crowded, but I put them in there cuz I don't want to lose them, you know and when Christmas come they just be so pretty Interviewer: mm-hmm #1 I bet they are # Aux: #2 {X} # {NW} Interviewer: I've never seen one bloom #1 you haven't oo # Aux: #2 I've heard them # I have one on the back in blooming {X} Interviewer: oh really Aux: yes, big paint block Interviewer: {X} I didn't know about it Aux: {X} Interviewer: well, i guess i better get started here. Excuse my bag Aux: alright, I'm tryna {X} cuz I was in the kitchen here Interviewer: hey this is cool Aux: I was in the #1 kitchen # Interviewer: #2 feel that breeze # 596: that's nice breeze Aux: he went to the washer this morning and just got back from washing I always wait till he come back to cook him a little breakfast Interviewer: oh, have you had breakfast 596: yes, ma'am I've had #1 breakfast # Aux: #2 yes, he did # Interviewer: #1 that's good # Aux: #2 eating breakfast # #1 {X} # 596: #2 I never want no early breakfast # Aux: #1 {X] # 596: #2 {X} # Aux: sit with you {X} Interviewer: did you- did you, you said something about you used to be a farmer 596: yes ma'am, I used to be a farmer Interviewer: yeah, did you eat early breakfast then 596: yes, ma'am. I used to eat early breakfast then sometime {X} Interviewer: really 596: #1 he wouldn't want nothing to eat # Interviewer: #2 he knew you wouldn't wait, he knew you wouldn't wait for him # 596: I wouldn't wait for no breakfast Interviewer: would you come back and eat it later or 596: well, probably I would. Yeah maybe a cup of coffee or something like that Interviewer: well, I thought all farmers got up real early and ate a huge breakfast #1 {X} # 596: #2 well, no, I never could # #1 {X} # Aux: #2 {X} # 596: #1 but dinner and supper I # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: {NW} 596: #1 don't want no breakfast much, but dinner and supper # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: you're just not a breakfast person #1 huh # 596: #2 yeah, no I'm not boy # Interviewer: uh, would you tell me your name please so I can have a record of it 596: yes, ma'am Hosmer {B} Hosmer, H-O-S-M-E-R Interviewer: alright 596: ain't many folks got that name Interviewer: no, i haven't heard that before I don't #1 believe # 596: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: um, where is it somebody else that's named in your family or 596: yes ma'am. I've got a I've got a son and a gran- and a grandson named Hosmer that's the only three here Interviewer: is that right. well who were you named after 596: well, i don't know him Interviewer: but they do, it just was a name that started #1 with you # 596: #2 yes, yes ma'am, that's right # it used to be a bookkeeper in the Franklin County no in Summit {X} in Pike County Aux: {X} 596: uh, he was named Charlie {B} so my daddy named me after at least, the last part of the name Interviewer: I see. How many children were in your family when you were growing up 596: uh, my family, let's see my my parents let's see how many Aux: {X} 596: hmm? I think it was ten Aux: #1 it was then, seven boys and three girls # 596: #2 yeah # #1 yeah, that's right # Aux: #2 {X} # 596: yeah Interviewer: #1 {NW} # Aux: #2 {NW} # 596: yeah, that's right. I forget Interviewer: um, and your address please 596: my address now? Interviewer: yes sir 596: um, Brookhaven route six {B} Interviewer: {X} 596: the latter part of my name {B} did you get that Interviewer: yes {B} 596: that's right {B} Interviewer: and this is what county 596: this is Lincoln county Interviewer: alright, and then would your your address be uh box {B} route six 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: Brookhaven 596: yes ma'am, Brookhaven Interviewer: Mississippi 596: Brookhaven, Mississippi Interviewer: alright naturally 596: that's right Interviewer: i just wanna get make sure I get #1 all of this # 596: #2 I see, yes # Interviewer: uh and where were you born 596: I was ra-I was born in Franklin County Interviewer: yes, that's what she said #1 yesterday uh # 596: #2 yeah yeah # Interviewer: about how far from the county line were you born 596: well, where i was born at is about ten miles from the county line that was that was Mid county and Lincoln, and Pike they all kind of connected right together and so I was in Franklin - Franklin yeah alright, I saw on the map that there's kind of a little place in Lincoln where it kinds of juts out that's right Interviewer: that i guess was where you were born 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: was it close to any community 596: well little springs old little spring little spring used to be a place well, in them days, people recognized little spring like they would Brookhaven now Interviewer: really 596: everybody in that community come to little spring yeah it was just a big, it was just a big store there and a sawmill and that's about Aux: post office too 596: post office Aux: mm-hmm 596: while everybody go to little spring, little spring and so easily recognized like Brookhaven is now Interviewer: wow 596: seem to me like big community Interviewer: well then, where did you, you said you were born there. Then where did you move after that 596: well I {X} come this way until I got to Lincoln county yes Interviewer: did you um move um. I mean back how old were you when you started moving away from that area 596: well, back when I left there I was thirty-five years old when I left out of Franklin coming out, I was thirty-five years old by the time I got to Lincoln, yeah Interviewer: I see, you said you started moving this way 596: yes, my {X} I was moving back in in the community, back and forth {X} got on out in there Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 596: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: uh Mrs. {B} said something about that you were you lived pretty close to the county line there for a while she said like three or four miles from the county line or something like that 596: yes, that's when I was in Aux: in franklin 596: in franklin county, yeah Interviewer: I see, is this when you grew up as a child 596: yes ma'am, that's, I started in Franklin county Interviewer: okay 596: yeah, started out in Franklin county yeah Interviewer: alright, then when you got in Lincoln county, where did you live in Lincoln county when you were thirty-five 596: I was living in the community, what do you call uh uh, Arlington Interviewer: yes 596: Arlington community yeah Interviewer: that's over near Bogue Chitto 596: yes, ma'am that's right Interviewer: right, oh 596: that's right Interviewer: and then how old were you when you came to this area 596: I mean uh {X} Interviewer: well I guess what I'm asking is, how long have you lived right here 596: about twenty-six years yeah, twenty-six Interviewer: where did where did you live when you were farming 596: well I farmed since I've been here when I farm, come as a farmer when I when I left for Franklin county then i come to to Lincoln county as a farmer then I {X} uh about eight or ten years ago I quit trying to farm {X} Interviewer: um 596: I quit trying to farm Interviewer: do you do anything now 596: well yes I do a little a little ol' patch farming and gardening such as that, raise vegetables like that Interviewer: mm 596: yeah Interviewer: that sort of thing, that helps now too 596: yes {X} Interviewer: oh yeah, you know a lot of people in Georgia are starting to dig up the backyards #1 and plant things # 596: #2 oh yeah that's right # Interviewer: i have three tomato plants, ain't that grand 596: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Aux: I've got chickens, i can't cook nothing in my backyard Interviewer: oh i guess not Aux: we got chickens 596: well, I, we used to just raise all any on a farm, just buy- see an advertisement in the paper of something and I wanted you, I just harvested that seed in them maybe and just try it out I remember I had some tomatoes, you know it's called oxheart tomato while they'd, all they'd get that big right, you know tomatoes Interviewer: they good? 596: yeah, they were good, they were all right Interviewer: uh, let's see and would you tell me your age please 596: my age now if I love to see one month tomorrow I'll be seventy-eight Interviewer: oh really 596: yes Interviewer: my goodness 596: first day of October, I was born eighteen-ninety-five Interviewer: my goodness, you don't look seventy-eight you shouldn't tell anybody you're seventy-eight {NW} and uh have you ever done any kind of work other than farming 596: yes, ma'am I've done some public work long by chances {X} Interviewer: some what, I'm sorry I didn't hear 596: I said I've done some public work, let's get on the railroad like that Interviewer: oh 596: yes, a little bit yeah some Interviewer: what did you, what kind of work did you do on the railroad 596: well I have to do a I was working on a steel game, kind of on steel Interviewer: oh, laying track 596: yes, laying track, yeah laying track yeah Interviewer: I see 596: and I done work as a helper for brick masons I don't like that, I don't like that building like that Interviewer: did you ever uh. I know that this was a lumber country Did you ever work in a saw mill at all 596: no, not much. I didn't work much in a saw mill Interviewer: I see 596: not much I worked in a saw mill Interviewer: and uh what religion are you 596: Baptist, Missionary Baptist Interviewer: alright and uh did you attend school in Franklin County 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: uh what school did you go to 596: uh i forget the name of the little school we had Interviewer: right 596: well little springs yeah {X} Interviewer: mm-hmm 596: yeah yeah, that's right a little springs it was called Interviewer: alright, and how far did you get in school 596: oh about eighth grade to {X} I didn't get very far Interviewer: alright and um, let's see, do you belong to any clubs or any #1 organizations # 596: #2 yes yes and that's right # Interviewer: what what sort of clubs do you #1 belong to # 596: #2 I've gone to Masonic # Interviewer: #1 are you # 596: #2 yeah yeah Masonic yeah # Interviewer: my father was a Mason 596: i see, yeah Interviewer: alright, anything else you belong to 596: well no I'm not Interviewer: alright that's fine uh, we're just tryna get a picture of of you as a person. that's what we're doing 596: wha-wha-what you say Aux: {X} 596: oh yeah yeah well yeah that's right {X} yeah I'm a member of of them Interviewer: oh, alright, what about your parents. uh do you know where your mother was born 596: yes, but she was born in Franklin county Interviewer: alright and your father 596: he was born in franklin Interviewer: alright, and your mo- do you know anything about your mother's education do you know how far she went in school 596: no, I just don't know Interviewer: #1 or your father # 596: #2 but she but # no, I don't know but then but they both could, they both could read, write, and do anything that I can my bible was uh, I mean to say my father was a good bible scholar Interviewer: was he 596: he was a real bible scholar but now, I don't, I don't know how anything {X} he could do it himself. he didn't have to have to get nobody else to do it so I don't know how far, what grade #1 he got to # Interviewer: #2 alright, that's fine # what is that I just heard out there 596: that's a mule out there Interviewer: that's what I thought 596: {NW} Interviewer: #1 I haven't seen a mule since I was a child # 596: #2 {NW} # [NW} well, that's one out there Interviewer: she have a name 596: no, that mule ain't got #1 no name # Aux: #2 she's just a mule # 596: #1 just a mule # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # i thought that's what I heard uh, what kind, what sort of work did your father do 596: well, he farmed {X} i Know he farmed all his life Interviewer: alright, do you ever do, you mentioned he was bible scholar. Did he ever do any preaching 596: no, he didn't preach, but he was a teacher. you know #1 teacher # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 596: that's right Aux: oh my, do y'all mind me putting in {X} 596: that's all right i forget Aux: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Mr {B} Aux: he's supposed to get some {X} Interviewer: he can repeat so I'll get in on the tape #1 because I don't think I'll pick you up # Aux: #2 {X} # tryna get things to remember things. If I'm- if I'm interrupting Interviewer: no, not at all #1 not all # 596: #2 no that's fine # Interviewer: just cause my back's to you Aux: your father was a deacon of the church 596: oh yeah, he was a deacon. He was a deacon Aux: just like you are now 596: yeah, that's right mm-hmm Interviewer: are you a deacon of #1 the church # 596: #2 yes ma'am that's right # Interviewer: wonderful 596: that's right yeah all #1 works like that I'm I'm in it # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: that's fine that's fine uh where is the church that you go to where is it located 596: right over between in town in town eighty years {D: Shent Marks} I imagined you passed it just coming out here this morning Interviewer: I might've 596: and to the right Interviewer: I'll look as I go back, I really don't know 596: yeah Interviewer: I'm usually looking for where I'm going and I 596: I see Interviewer: I don't look at the landmarks 596: yeah Interviewer: I know where Jones is 596: well this church is above Jones and Marks to the right, just in between in town just above Jones and Mark Interviewer: I'll look 596: yes Interviewer: I'll look 596: to the right Interviewer: uh, do you know anything oh and your mother, did she do any sort of work outside the home 596: no, no, not outside the home Interviewer: alright, did she do any day work or anything of that sort 596: no morning on the farm {X} Interviewer: alright, do you know anything at all about your grandparents 596: no, well I know my mother, my mother's father uh, grandparent. I know him. I remember him. I used to go to his house when I was a little, just a little kid yeah Interviewer: do you know anything about where he was born or what he did for a living 596: well, I know he was born in Franklin county he's old home place was called old St. Luke but that's over there now on Mississippi central railroad over there in Mc-what's called McColls this little place called McColl, but he was born there that was his home right in there {NS} he stayed there until back in them days had called white caps see the white caps run them, run all the colored people out from that part of the country Interviewer: what were white caps. I haven't heard that before 596: well, that's that's some sort like the Ku Klux Interviewer: oh really 596: yeah, like whi- in them days we called white caps so they'd come in the community after you know and give maybe the colored people orders, give them time to, we want you to be vacated from this place in a certain length of time, if you don't, we gone come back and see why you ain't gone well, that's right, we could do that and so and so if we hadn't gone when they come back wild, they'd come in they'd they'd put you away in there Interviewer: #1 oh # 596: #2 put you away # shoot in your house, shoot you too {X} hadn't got out when they by that specified time Interviewer: oh 596: yeah Interviewer: does the Ku Klux do much around here now 596: no, we don't hear about them very much Interviewer: you don't hear anything #1 about them # 596: #2 we don't hear very much # {X} Interviewer: we don't in Georgia anymore either 596: no, no we don't hear no Ku Klux {X} but back in them days what you call white caps now they was rough Interviewer: now they weren't the Ku Klux 596: no Interviewer: they were another organization 596: yes most of them are Interviewer: another group of people 596: yes, most of them are Interviewer: well I hadn't run across that before, that's interesting 596: well, I was about seven years old when that happened of course my father, they didn't run him out, they told him yes {X} he be quiet, he wouldn't be bothered if he didn't be out talking so much, saying something about you know Interviewer: mm-hmm 596: they didn't bother him, sure enough see they had white caps, they had captains you know and, what they go by, leading you know Interviewer: uh, you uh, you just talked about they had captains 596: yeah Interviewer: and that reminded me, do you remember a time when uh well see I guess maybe black men would address their employer as captain 596: yeah Interviewer: or captain or something like that 596: yes, ma'am and uh it's like now there's a group of men uh i don't know how many it be in a squad but be warned that's their captain, that's the lead arrest them, tell them what to do Interviewer: I'm sick uh, let's see. I need to ask something about Mrs. {B} do you mind my asking how old Mrs. {B} is 596: yeah, you should go ahead and ask, yes Interviewer: alright, you, let her say it and you say it so #1 I can get it # 596: #2 yes ma'am, yes ma'am # Aux: I'm seventy-three 596: she's seventy-three Interviewer: seventy-three 596: seventy-three Interviewer: and what's her religion 596: Baptist Interviewer: alright and uh how far did Mrs. {B} go in school Aux: eighth grade 596: eighth grade she said Interviewer: alright and do you belong, does Mrs. {B} belong to any organizations? 596: yes {NS} Interviewer: what does she belong to 596: uh Aux: Heroines of Jericho 596: Heroines Heroines of Jericho Interviewer: alright is this a religious 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: organization 596: yes a religious organization Interviewer: alright, and does she, do you know anything about where Mrs. {B} parents came from 596: well now her Aux: lived in Franklin 596: her, well uh her parents Aux: and and my mother was in Lincoln county 596: yeah her mother her mother was born in Lincoln this county, way years back in this county Aux: and they married 596: and her her father was he born in Aux: he was born in franklin 596: Franklin? Aux: mm 596: yeah mm-hmm Interviewer: how long have you all been married 596: me me and her? Interviewer: uh-huh 596: fifty-five years Interviewer: i thought maybe, that's why i asked {NW} that's a long time 596: that's a long Interviewer: for two people #1 to live together # 596: #2 that's the truth, that's right # and some, and we never we never did fight, never did quit cause one going ain't coming back and all that. we we ain't never did do that Interviewer: oh, that's beautiful 596: that's right Interviewer: oh that's terrific how many children do you two have 596: we have seven children was it seven seven children Aux: lost two, we got five 596: we got five Interviewer: oh, that's beautiful where do your children live, do they, any of them live in this area 596: uh Aux: three 596: three of them do two boys, one girl live in this area yeah Aux: the other two live in Interviewer: where do the others live 596: live in Natchez, yeah Natchez, Mississippi Interviewer: I've worked in Natchez 596: #1 sure enough sure enough # Interviewer: #2 that's a beautiful little thing isn't it # 596: yeah, thats right Interviewer: do you ever get to go visit them 596: once in a while you visit them, but not as often. i ought to but still you can visit them once in a while but they come too themselves {X} Interviewer: do they 596: yeah Interviewer: what about uh any other traveling. how much traveling have you done? any? 596: no, i ain't done much traveling Interviewer: you gotta stay close to home and farm 596: yes, i haven't done much traveling Interviewer: alright, uh we're talking about the house where you were born 596: yeah Interviewer: do you remember what it looked like, how it was laid out on in the inside 596: well, I'll tell you the house I was born in, it was a little, log house just a little old peel- you know take pole, take log and peel them you know, peel the bark all off and stack them notch them, stack them well, I-I it was a log house where i was born in and I stayed in that little log house I reckon about uh, I was three or four years old and then and they built a box house right in front of the log house and I lived in that box house there until I was twelve years old Interviewer: now this this house, the log house, was it one room or how many rooms did it have 596: I- it didn't have but one room it didn't have one room and a and a kitchen we had little log kitchen and it was out on the had to go out out of the house and walk on the ground out to the kitchen Interviewer: it was out in the yard 596: out in the yard that's right Interviewer: do you ever call it anything, just the kitchen or did they ever call it a summer kitchen 596: well, i don't know {X} #1 {X} # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: and did you still use that kitchen when they built the box house 596: no, they built another kitchen over there good little old box kitchen but it didn't join to the house Interviewer: it didn't join #1 either # 596: #2 no # had it sitting off, got a walk on a walk going out to the kitchen Interviewer: was the walk covered in any way 596: no Interviewer: just little walkway 596: when it rained you had to put something on your head and run out there Interviewer: {NW} where did you eat then, in the kitchen? #1 or in the house # 596: #2 yes ma'am in the kitchen, in the kitchen, that's right # Interviewer: alright, talking about this um box house 596: yeah Interviewer: okay, suppose I I drew a little square 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: can you show me where the rooms were 596: well Interviewer: the kitchen was over here somewhere 596: yes, ma'am, that's right Interviewer: okay, can you show me how many rooms were there 596: well, the house didn't have but two rooms, maybe one room, one large room and the other one kind of a smaller room Interviewer: uh, kind of like this 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: okay and what was this room called 596: well, I don't know, bedroom I reckon Interviewer: it was it was where you slept #1 though # 596: #2 yes, yes # Interviewer: alright, and what about this one, what did you 596: well, we had a bed in that, they had a bed in that, and then everything else we had was it's round about in the rooms, you know just round about in there Interviewer: okay, so it was pretty much a two bedroom 596: then finally, they built a uh porch out there Interviewer: which side was the porch on. this 596: it was on the front side yes Interviewer: and this is the front #1 side # 596: #2 yeah, mm-hmm # {X} and then put little room on the porch, cut off Interviewer: uh, like over here 596: yes, ma'am Interviewer: and what was that room for 596: well, that's you put a, we boys they put us in that room Interviewer: oh, so it became a bedroom #1 too # 596: #2 yes, ma'am, that's right # Interviewer: okay, and how would you uh, where was the front door, right into this #1 bedroom # 596: #2 yes, yes ma'am that's right # that's right Interviewer: okay, if you had company where would they sit 596: well, I mean, where did they si- Interviewer: yeah where. You know which room would you have your company come to 596: {X} it'd be in the large room Interviewer: the large room okay, um, did you do you have a porch off the back or anything 596: no, we didn't have no porch Interviewer: didn't have a back porch 596: no, we had a little kitchen set behind, right behind that that little room there Interviewer: oh, the kitchen would be over here 596: yes Interviewer: I see 596: of course you had to Interviewer: but farther away I see 596: farther away Interviewer: like over here 596: yeah Interviewer: and then there'd be a walkway 596: that's right Interviewer: this way 596: that's right yeah Interviewer: okay, did you ever know of a house in where they had the front porch and they had something over to the side of the porch where people came in and watched where they keep water 596: yes, yes Interviewer: what was that 596: uh. Addison, my father, the last home he he lived in before he died, well that's the kind of house he was in Interviewer: was it 596: {X} we called it a {X} we called it a watershed with a copper lattice made across you know Interviewer: uh-huh 596: and protect it around here Interviewer: yeah, do you know I ran across that the very first time in this area 596: sure enough Interviewer: and I'm asking everybody about it cause I had never heard of it on a house 596: sure enough Interviewer: that's the kind of thing I'm #1 interested in finding out # 596: #2 yeah # now, {X} i had those things set right between like the kitchen off from the house to pee Interviewer: mm-hmm 596: and that set off, that right between the house and the kitchen where that little where we kept the water Interviewer: alright, now was it built separate from the house or was it attached to the house 596: no {X} built separate from the house Interviewer: it was built separate #1 from the house # 596: #2 separate from the house # Interviewer: like a little shed or 596: yes, something like that it wasn't very tall you know but it it's kind of uh Interviewer: you couldn't walk into it? 596: no, you'd walk up to it Interviewer: up to it and it be #1 kind of like # 596: #2 so so like that little # {X} Interviewer: I see, but it had a roof on it 596: yes ma'am, that's right, sure did Interviewer: hmm, that's interesting I hadn't heard that and what would you usually find in there 596: well, it just be your water buckets and your pan, what you bathe your face and hands you sitting in there that's about all it would be in there, just that it wouldn't be no more off from that post after that Interviewer: oh, would you um have something there to drive in with or dry your hards of 596: yes ma'am, that's right, they'd, they'd have it hanging on the wall, maybe a towel hanging on the wall back there Interviewer: and soap or anything like that 596: oh, that's right, have a little old, what you call it, soap box Interviewer: a soap box 596: yeah, put your soap in there Interviewer: ah 596: yeah Interviewer: um, I forgot to ask one thing about this the house, the way way the house was, how was it heated 596: why I just, we just nothing but just a fireplace we call wood it's wood and and have a chimney uh, chimney, you've seen chimney Interviewer: yes 596: yeah, in them days it was day chimney back in them days, some of them was day chimney and if if you didn't have no brick, well they didn't worry about no brick just go out there and make a frame, stack up like like you building a little house {X} mud all the way up way up there Interviewer: well, which room was the fireplace in, the big bedroom 596: yes, that's where the fireplace would be Interviewer: okay, would it have been this is the front porch, can you see what I'm drawing on that this is the porch 596: yes Interviewer: would it have been back here #1 or over there # 596: #2 yes, it # it it it'd be back here Interviewer: it'd been back here 596: that's right that's right Interviewer: alright 596: that's right Interviewer: did you ever have to build a fire 596: oh yes ma'am, i used to build a fire Interviewer: how do you go about building a fire in a fire place 596: well, you go out and get some splinters we we caught all the splinters you know Interviewer: {NW} 596: yeah, pines is made out of pine you know Interviewer: uh-huh 596: and we split them up kind of fine stick a match to them and {X} put them down and begin to add more wood to them Interviewer: was there a big piece of wood that you 596: no, we started with little wood, small wood till it get it fire started, then you get your big wood to begin to put on in there Interviewer: I wondered if there was a, you know, sometimes they would have a great, big log they'd put in the back of the fireplace 596: well, I Interviewer: called it a back log 596: that's what they called a back log yeah that'd be a bigger stick of wood than the rest of it you know the biggest you put on the back and build a fire right in front of that and then you add to it, just add to it so Interviewer: uh 596: you get through, you had a good fire Interviewer: I'd imagine #1 so # 596: #2 you'd be warm # you could've been way back warm Interviewer: uh, what did they put the wood on to hold it in the fireplace 596: it was, what you call a dog iron yes, it is iron on each side like that what you call a dog iron, but when they didn't have no dog iron why they'd get old thimble out of a wagon, old fashioned wagon old thimble what you call a thimble with the wheel roll on Interviewer: mm-hmm 596: they'd take that, put that on each side there, make make five dogs we carved them out of them old thimbles, come out a wagon yeah Interviewer: I'll be 596: that's what they have Interviewer: the dog irons that would be the bulk kind 596: yes ma'am they'd be the bulk kind Interviewer: would you call, ever call that fire dogs if they were bought 596: well, if you could, some folks #1 made them # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 596: some folks used to take a blacksmith to make them, you know, just make them and {X} we call them dog irons, fire dogs are what we call them Interviewer: how about that 596: yeah {NS} Interviewer: uh, there's a open place wasn't there in front of the fireplace on the floor 596: yes, ma'am that's called a hearth yeah Interviewer: did they cook on that or 596: no, they didn't cook on it when people used to have to cook on the fireplace why they, that hearth was good for them to set the vessels on you know like that while it was cooking yeah, but after you got where they got them s- you'd get stoves while they didn't have to use, cook them Interviewer: what did your mother cook on 596: she cooked on the stove Interviewer: you all had the stove 596: yes, yes she did Interviewer: so she didn't have cook #1 anything # 596: #2 no # she didn't cook on the fire not as I can remember, I don't remember when she cooked on the fireplace she always cooked on the stove ever since I knew anything about it Interviewer: alright, and sometimes there's a piece of wood up on the fireplace, on the brick fireplaces where people set a cloth 596: yes, ma'am, yes ma'am we always called it the shelf, we called them shelves Interviewer: uh-huh 596: yeah but that's a mantelpiece, nowadays that's the mantelpiece Interviewer: uh, up in the chimney after you've been using the fireplace for a while, you get some black stuff 596: that's smut, yes Interviewer: alright 596: soot Interviewer: alright 596: we call it smut, but it's soot Interviewer: {NW} Aux: #1 {NW} # 596: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: alright, go ahead um and after your wood is uh burned out you'll have some stuff left in the fireplace 596: yes ma'am, ashes Interviewer: alright, and this is kind of one of those questions that's gonna seem obvious, but what am I sitting in 596: chair yeah Interviewer: alright uh there's another piece of furniture, we're gonna talk about furniture that you might find in houses then and now 596: yeah Interviewer: there's another piece of furniture, not a chair, but it's a longer piece that maybe two or three people can sit on 596: bench, something like that Interviewer: well, um, you might have one in your front room now uh, has some cushions on it 596: oh, a sofa Interviewer: okay, anything else you call that maybe a long time ago or something 596: I didn't have nothing like that much then way back then Interviewer: no, i guess not 596: no, they didn't, they weren't able to get nothing like that Interviewer: okay, so is it the same as a couch 596: yeah Interviewer: a sofa the same #1 as a coach # 596: #2 yes ma'am, same thing as a couch # Interviewer: have you ever heard those called a duvet 596: yes ma'am I've heard of them, I sure have Interviewer: what is that the same thing I ran across that the first time up near Jackson and I don't really understand if that was a brand name or if it was looked different or what 596: well, I don't I don't know, I thought just about the same thing, I don't Interviewer: okay, just another name #1 for it # 596: #2 yes, yes # Interviewer: okay, that's what I was wondering uh, sometimes you have a piece of furniture in your bedroom that you put your clothes in 596: yeah mm-hmm well that's a wash den I reckon Aux: wide rule 596: wide rule, wide rule Interviewer: well, that's the kind that uh stands up isn't it #1 yours # 596: #2 yes that's # yeah, wide rule Interviewer: alright, suppose you have something that has drawers in it 596: well, I, we call, we used to call them dressers such as that dresser Interviewer: okay 596: a bureau Interviewer: a dresser and bureau the same thing? 596: no, not exactly. no not exactly {X} but they ain't exactly the same thing Interviewer: uh, does one of them have a mirror and the other one doesn't 596: well, they both, the both of them have mirrors Interviewer: they both have mirrors 596: yes yeah Interviewer: okay do you have any idea what the difference is between them 596: no, ma'am, I don't know why they call one a dresser and the other #1 a bureau # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # that's what I was #1 wondering too # 596: #2 I don't know, I don't know why they call it a different one # Interviewer: alright, good, um, the things that hang in a window to keep out the light 596: uh, shades you mean Interviewer: alright, now are shades the kind you pull up and down 596: yes ma'am, yes Interviewer: alright, what would these you have here be on your Aux: blind 596: a blind yes Interviewer: alright, and they are the tilting 596: yes Interviewer: kind 596: that's right Interviewer: alright, um, when you're talking about your fur- your um tables and your chairs and everything you say, they're all pieces of fur- they're all pieces of furni- 596: yes, ma'am, that's right Interviewer: pieces of what would you say 596: furniture Interviewer: alright 596: yes Interviewer: uh, if you have a little room built off your bedroom, you know in the old days people had wardrobes 596: yeah Interviewer: certain dressers, but now we might have a place where you hang up your clothes a little little room 596: that's right, in a closet Interviewer: alright the room at the top of a house um between the ceiling and the roof uh, you know if you have a one story house then you've got a space between the ceiling and the roof that would be the what 596: uh {X} Interviewer: okay, uh, in in this house maybe, you know you have a ceiling 596: yeah Interviewer: in there, alright, isn't there a space betwee-up-up above it 596: yes Interviewer: alright, what would you call that #1 space # 596: #2 well, we used to call it a-a-a # in our days, we called that up in the loft Interviewer: uh=huh 596: the loft, we'd call it up in the loft of course now if it's a {D: anoth- another uh} if somebody somebody lived there we called it {X} another room or storing we'd see Interviewer: right, but if nobody lived up there it'd be a loft 596: that's right Interviewer: would you call it anything different now 596: no, well I don't know {X} Interviewer: I heard Mrs. {B} say attic, would you say attic now or loft Aux: normally have up in, up overhead is if you store away things 596: well probably so I don't know Interviewer: alright Aux: {X} Interviewer: that's just fine and how would you get, if you had a two-story house, how would you get from the first floor up to the second floor 596: well, we have a stairway Interviewer: alright and to get from the ground up on the porch, you come up the what 596: steps Interviewer: alright, there's little room off the kitchen now they may've had them in the old days where you stored things like flowers 596: yes ma'am mm-hmm we call in the old days, called the store room Interviewer: store room 596: yes Interviewer: was it in the kitchen, I mean was it off the kitchen 596: no, it'd be, it kind of be uh it wouldn't be in the kitchen, it'd be kind of uh just like before you go into the kitchen where ours was, before we went in the kitchen there's a little room on the side Interviewer: built on to it sort of 596: yes, yes Interviewer: and what sorts of things would you keep in there 596: well, such as {X} and your flower, once you have such as that and cooking utensils or something like that Interviewer: okay, did you ever hear that called a dairy or pantry 596: yes Interviewer: which which one or both {NW} 596: well, I don't know uh dairy, that was before people uh that thing like you got it now it used to have when they built them out and out in the yard, out there on the shade tree cause it didn't have no electricity, nothing like that and, a maybe a good shade tree they'd build that little old that old building they build out there where it could keep cool it could, yeah it could it'd put your milk and stuff in there, store it away in there through the day but, then you fix something around on the ground, around there to keep it anxious {X} Interviewer: oh really 596: yeah, Interviewer: would ya, I haven't heard of that. what would you fix around on the ground 596: well, it would, maybe you put uh maybe a a tin lid, or probably a little old box of some kind with a whole water and sit the legs of it over in the air Aux: {X} 596: pour the water in and around {X} you know you wouldn't Interviewer: oh, I hadn't heard of that before 596: that's right Interviewer: that's clever, did it do the job 596: yes ma'am, maybe {X} maybe I ain't see learned sometimes how to swim {X} {NW} Interviewer: I hear they have fire ants around here 596: well they got plenty around here, ooh, they're rough Interviewer: mm 596: now, we got fire ants yeah Interviewer: mm 596: yeah Interviewer: um, this dairy though would not be the same as the store room 596: no ma'am, Interviewer: it would be built diff- at a different place #1 for a different thing # 596: #2 yes different, that's right # Interviewer: what do you call a lot of old worthless things that you really oughta throw away 596: I call that junk Interviewer: {NW} and where would you keep your junk 596: well, just put it out somewhere just until you can get rid of it Interviewer: would you ever have a shed or something 596: well Interviewer: would you ever have a room where you put it all 596: well, yes, sometimes we do have a room where you put stuff in you store it or throw it away maybe right then but you just throw it away until you make other arrangements {X} Interviewer: would you ever call that a a junk house 596: yes, that's my junk room, a little room for junk yes Interviewer: uh, every morning, just thinking of the work that a woman does every morning you'd say around the house, you'd say every morning she gets up and she does what to the house 596: well, she would sweep it up {X} the best she can, sweep it up and make up the beds maybe sometimes they'll cook breakfast before they make up the beds and all like that Interviewer: okay, thinking of all that, would you say that she cleans up or 596: yes, Imma say cleans up, cleans up before everything {X} Interviewer: alright, and what would she sweep the floor with 596: broom yes, in the you know, that way people start off with brooms but nowadays they got something else nowadays vacuum cleaners and all like that or we use a broom yet here, we use brooms Interviewer: if you had a broom and you-you were, you know maybe you wanted to keep it out of sight 596: yeah Interviewer: you had door, you know how you pull a door open and kind of leave it pushed open 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: you put the ro-broom 596: broom behind the door Interviewer: right 596: that's right Interviewer: uh, years ago on Monday, what did women usually do 596: well, that's sort of hard to tell Interviewer: was that the day they did their wash 596: no, back in them days people had to {X} Interviewer: oh #1 {NW} # 596: #2 {NW} # {X} Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 596: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: oh, okay 596: {NW} they didn't wash it, they didn't wash that latter part of the week Interviewer: uh, what day did you usually wash then 596: well about Friday Interviewer: really? 596: yeah but on a Friday, and sometimes when uh work push it up real and really well, now of course I never was hard on my folks either way, I didn't do that it's been washed till Saturday morning, but no I didn't do that. My wife always washed on Sat- on a Friday or any day she wanted to wash, she said {X} boy she'd wash that thing Aux: {NW} 596: i wouldn't always like that, I didn't {X} Interviewer: oh what uh after a woman does the washing, then she has to do the what 596: {X} Interviewer: yeah, would they do that on the same day #1 usually or not # 596: #2 well if the clothes dried # {X} but sometimes the clothes wouldn't be dry {X} Interviewer: mm uh do you own this land around here 596: no, i leased it Interviewer: you leased it, and then when you were farming, I'm I'm trying to get a picture of how, you know, farming was 596: yes Interviewer: did uh, then a black man would lease land to farm on 596: yes ma'am that's right Interviewer: I see 596: yes, that's right Interviewer: uh 596: he'd have his own tools and everything, stock, I mean the animals, his ply tools, his wagon, all like that and so he was own manager then Interviewer: i see, so you always leased your farms 596: yes ma'am, I'd always been my own man {X} Interviewer: yeah, that's what I was driving at if if you worked on chairs at what you do 596: I never worked on chairs Interviewer: then what of the lease arrangement you would have would be you would pay a certain amount and it didn't have anything to do with how much you grew 596: no, no ma'am, that's right Interviewer: I see alright, uh, can we talked a minute ago about porches 596: yes Interviewer: can you have a porch on a second floor of a building 596: yes, ma'am, you can have a porch on a second floor Interviewer: would you call it anything other than a porch 596: uh, well I don't know what would or not Interviewer: do you remember what a law, a old word people used for porch 596: what's that Interviewer: gallery 596: gallery, that's right, yeah gallery Interviewer: it it, did a gallery look different than a porch 596: no, that's the same thing Interviewer: same thing 596: that's the same thing Interviewer: this could be a gallery 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: to to an old #1 {X} # 596: #2 that's right, that's right # Interviewer: alright if a door is open and you want someone to close it, you might tell them to what 596: shut the door, close the door Interviewer: {NW} alright 596: {NW} Interviewer: uh, sometime you'll build a house and you'll have some boards on the outside of the house that kind of lap over #1 {X} # 596: #2 yes, yes ma'am # Interviewer: those are are, are what, do you have a name for those 596: on the eve of the house Interviewer: on the out- on the sides 596: on the side Interviewer: on the outside 596: let's see what you mean {X} that's called weather board Interviewer: that's what I'm thinking of 596: yeah, weather board, that's right, weather board Interviewer: alright um, and the part that covers the top of the house is the {NS} 596: {D: yes ma'am, shingles} Interviewer: or, and it makes up the what the roof 596: yes, makes the roof Interviewer: alright, when you're building a roof that's like this 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: you have a piece that goes across the top 596: that's right yeah Interviewer: do that have a name 596: well, we uh call it a saddle board, we we call it the saddle board that make them {X} they fit over the top, shed the water each way, oh that's saddle board we can call it yeah Interviewer: would that be on a shingle roof as well as a {X} 596: well, yes as well as Interviewer: on any roof at the top 596: if you, if that is if you go back way back and then people use to lift the boards {X} like that like here the first come up then the {X} like that but now when it got where they cut these off like that then I can use a saddle board Interviewer: oh so when they they used to lift one side it steamed out 596: {X} Interviewer: yeah and then when they started cutting them both off at the same place they had to use the #1 saddle board # 596: #2 use the saddle board then # Interviewer: what would the saddle board be 596: made out of shingle roof well made out of plank or lumber of some kind where it wouldn't rot, hard lumber, something you'd last a long time when you put up there wouldn't build it out of sap lumber because it would rot too quick Interviewer: well what's hard lumber, what kind 596: well, I I , that's pine you see that's the inside of pine, some pine got a big heart in them Interviewer: mm-hmm 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: oh, it's heart lumber 596: yes heart lumber Interviewer: oh, i follow, i follow what you're saying then that would be pine, the inside of a #1 pine # 596: #2 inside of a pine # {X} big hear in it that won't rot, that'll last but like a a cypress or something like that you know uh, fir wood or something like that but just a heart of a pine inside that's what you use this part of the country all the time Interviewer: i hadn't heard that either 596: sure enough Interviewer: yeah, you're giving me a lot of stuff I hadn't heard before 596: {NW} Interviewer: uh, what do you call uh the little things along the edge of a roof that carry the water you know the water will come down, hit the roof, and then it'll run into what, the little 596: we call them gutters in them days but this is trough what they is Interviewer: oh, well they say troughs now 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: then the water comes down the troughs 596: valley, valley, quick between there two rooms you always come out, water come out between, that's a valley Interviewer: that's the valley 596: yeah that's the valley Interviewer: and it comes down the valley and then to the troughs and the gutter 596: that's right Interviewer: and then what about the part that goes down to the ground 596: well, I don't know Interviewer: would that still be part of the troughs or 596: yes ma'am, where it just pools off at Interviewer: alright uh, what would you call a little building that you use to store wood 596: well we always called it the wood house or we would call it Interviewer: alright, what about a place where you store tools 596: well that's a tool shed, toolhouse Interviewer: okay, is there uh, would a shed be different from a house 596: no, just since you build a little old , little old building closed all around, just some, you have somewhere to go ahead and put the tools in that's all Interviewer: I see, it would, a shed wouldn't necessarily have to be built on to something 596: no, no Interviewer: it could be built out of way 596: that's right yes Interviewer: {D: alright now back in the old days when they had the the days of the water shelf, I know they didn't have any inside plumbing} 596: no Interviewer: so where, what did you call the the place where people went instead of to a bathroom 596: uh, well they called it a called it I-I {X} outdoor Interviewer: yeah, now, I know one man told me over near Jackson, he said lady that's called a tree 596: yeah Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 596: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: and I I assumed that originally it was the [X} 596: yes Interviewer: you know, but then they built, started building little things 596: {X} we call them toilets, we call them outdoor toilets yeah Interviewer: alright, did they ever have any joking names they used about it that you can remember 596: no Interviewer: like a johnny house 596: johnny house, that's right, that's right, johnny house that's Interviewer: you remember now 596: old folks call them so many different things you know Interviewer: well they had a lot of names [X} so did you ever hear said, hear them call a chick sail 596: no Interviewer: now I ran across that once, it might've just been a family 596: yeah, mm-hmm Interviewer: okay, um, someone might ask you did you {X} did you, just fill in what you think, did you hear hear 596: ma'am Interviewer: did uh, someone might ask you did you hear that noise, did you what would you say, did you hear, would you say did you hear that 596: I'd say, well sir did you hear that you just say, I say I did, if I did, if i heard it I say I heard it Interviewer: okay, that's fine that's exactly i have a few little expressions like that that are kind of hard to get 596: yes Interviewer: {NW} in a question form alright, you might say here that you lived in a frame 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: how 596: yes ma'am in a frame house, a frame building either way Interviewer: alright, and if you had uh are there any other kinds around here 596: you mean around Interviewer: yeah, what kinds of houses are around here other than frame houses 596: well, there are brick buildings and all like that and yeah frame house box house, we'd call them well i don't know what Interviewer: okay that's fine uh the big building behind the house where you store hay 596: yes that's right that's a barn Interviewer: alright uh is there a special building on a farm where you store corn 596: that's, we call that the crib Interviewer: was it a part of the barn or separate 596: well, would it be best for it to be separate but we all would use it use it there maybe uh use the same thing yeah Interviewer: oh, but you, it would be part of the barn 596: yes ma'am Interviewer: and you're 596: that's right yeah Interviewer: alright was there any kind of special building where you stored grain or would it just be in the barn 596: well, that'd be the same place as a barn yeah Interviewer: alright, the upper part of the barn where you stored hay 596: yeah, we called that up in up in the loft Interviewer: alright was it uh, what did it look like 596: well, it's like your, like your barn built with, like that with a roof like that well you got a get above so where you got a floor in it you see and maybe your hay go up in the upper part of that when you yeah Interviewer: and did it have openings at each end or one end 596: well, each end they have openings or you could close them, the openings, of course you could uh you could find a closing though if the only way you could close it but it would have a opening so you could put your hay in each end of it Interviewer: and were there, was it more than one room or 596: no, not hardly, unless you just wanted some little more a little rooms down at the big barn you could have some more of that room down there where your, by your {X} we call your crib and where you put other stuff in under the same shed you might well see Interviewer: okay, uh if you get too much hay gathered to get in the barn uh how you would you keep it outside 596: well in our old days back then we used to take a, maybe put up a pole way up there if you didn't want to put it around the tree we stack it just pack it around, start packing it packing it packing it pack it way up on the side of that tree and Interviewer: you'd call that a what 596: uh, I know we called it a hay shock, what we call shock of hay Interviewer: okay 596: and it'll stay right there just loaded in one of the barns {X} water, it wouldn't get wet in the b-b-barn because we'd fix it to a water but shed off when the rain on it Interviewer: would you cover it in any way 596: no Interviewer: just seems like to me that they would've, it would've gotten soaking wet 596: no, it wouldn't get wet if your feet can get up the top while you running up the sharp like that and something like that and it kind of, put a what you call, a cap on it it would hay and shed the water off at all times see the cattle begin to eat that {X} slide down the pole, come on down as they eat Interviewer: so this was a place where the cattle could go to eat too 596: yes ma'am without you going out there, throwing it out there to them like that Interviewer: oh