Interviewer:  {NS} Um {NS} and your your mother what did she do? Did she {D: foster} was she a housewife?
625:  Yes uh she {NS} my mother couldn't {D: very} speak very good English. In fact uh one of them schools she went to she went to public uh to a French school.
Interviewer:  Yeah. {NS} So she didn't have much education?
625:  Not very much, no. {NS} and uh uh the there was uh {NW} I believe one of the school teacher's she went to uh {D: Bear Dare Rock Byrn} uh no he died before that I believe uh maybe anyway his name is Sydney. And he was {X} had been buried there not long ago I looked at over a hundred and twenty-five years ago.
Interviewer:  Whew. How much education did your father get? Did he get any?
625:  Well uh
Interviewer:  Could he read and write?
625:  He could read and write pretty good, he write a newspaper, he write pretty good but uh I'll tell you what school and he went there and most of what was what they call it blue back {NW} speller I don't know if you know
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah. #
625:  #2 anything # about that. That's wha- that's what most of them people them days got education and I don't know but they lot of 'em got was pretty smart {D: and}
Interviewer:  Yeah. Uh.
625:  #1 He could #
Interviewer:  #2 {D: Can} #
625:  read, write. Read and write good and figure good too. {NS}
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  What uh what was the blue back speller?
625:  Well the blue back speller uh I'd give it to you if I could find one. {NW} it it would {NW} teach you. It had maths English. Arithmetic I mean uh uh spelling and uh I don't what it it I believe it taught a little of everything.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  I believe if you went through one of them you you'd uh you'd have a pretty good education.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Yeah right. Um. Now uh what religion, was your family always uh is your are you uh what religion are you?
625:  Uh Catholic.
Interviewer:  Okay.
625:  All my family on on both sides were Catholic. Course there's some of 'em intermarried and uh {NW} very few of 'em though.
Interviewer:  Alright. Um {NW} now what is this town you're living in now?
625:  #1 {X} #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # What's the name of this town here?
625:  Right here?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Well this is uh uh that road there they call that John Clark Road.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  That runs from the where you leave on you come off {NW} highway ninety {D: at} {D: forty ninety}
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  From there 'til it run into County Farm up this way.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  They got the those {D: really} {X} the only name I know of it here they call it John Clark.
Interviewer:  Road?
625:  #1 Road. #
Interviewer:  #2 I see. #
625:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Oh okay. Well what's that little community out there, the one closest to it? Isn't there one out there? I forgot the name of it.
625:  Uh let's see there's uh they got uh
Interviewer:  Um.
625:  Northwood Village
Interviewer:  No
625:  #1 down #
Interviewer:  #2 it's um #
625:  in uh
Interviewer:  {D: Daypierre} is that the name of it or?
625:  I don't know that.
Interviewer:  Eh there's a little little thing up there but I can't
625:  There they're three uh three subdivisions right out here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  Or maybe four. Wait I'm gonna fi- I'm gonna find out. {NS}
Interviewer:  Okay. {NS}
625:  Monday, I can't think about that nor any other time {D: whatever}
Interviewer:  {NW}
625:  {X} Call it whatever ya know?
Interviewer:  I got it written down cuz when you gave me directions
625:  You did?
Interviewer:  Yeah uh to get out here I I {NS} you gave me that name so I got it written down somewhere.
625:  Well it, there are three you find out, there's three three three or maybe four subdivisions right out here.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Okay. Um didn't you t- you play the fiddle don't you? Can you tell me about when you picked it up and started playing it?
625:  Well uh you know I was on the radio here one time.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh (C: phone beeping} {NS} {NW} {NS}
Interviewer:  You better hang that up. Or else you'll get you get that noise. {NS}
625:  Yeah. Uh I I {NW} we had a interview there first and talked with the uh a man that was uh {D: she uh} uh she was secretary of this uh uh festival they gonna have here and and the man was the vice president. And she asked me how how long I been playing the fiddle.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  I said about and I was about seventy years ago. She says uh y- y- that put you way up there, I said yeah, I said yeah. That was uh I was eighty-two then. I said that's I was about twelve years old when I started play the fiddle I said and she asked me how I said I pl- I learned how to play {NW} with my daddy. He could play them old pieces good as {D: Roy Coffler} or any of 'em play right now.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh {D: my} one of my brother work for {D: one of} my uncle live way down there at {D: Annes} I telling you.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And he had bought a little fiddle about three-quarter {D: little} smaller than three-quarters. And for his son and he never did learn how to play and the my brother couldn't play and they were tussling with it one day trying to take it out of each others hand, they dropped it and it broke it you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh so {NW} I really paid fifteen dollars for it.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And one day my brother said asked him he said how much you want, you gonna sell that fiddle? Said say yeah, he said who wants to buy it? Says me. He said how much you want for it? Said give me a dollar and take it. And the case and everything so he brought it home. And I asked somebody and I had a one of my daddy's first cousin lived there on Lake Shore They told me he could fix it and I brought it out to him had him to fix it. He I brought it to him said yeah he can fix it and he glued it up and put it together and got string and {NS} bridge and {NW} that was {X} and I went there and got that thing Man I would take a million dollars for that. And uh I learn how to play that {NW} I learned how to play with my daddy, he'd play some pieces I'd uh learn how to play with him you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And then uh when I went to school {X} I went there three years {D: the} the first year I was there not long {X} uh I talked to the music teacher there one day about taking violin said yeah. So I I went there I started taking violin, I took music {NW} and uh I took it at two years.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And I could play the thing, I played in the church, play over there you know? And then uh I bought a piano from my oldest daughter and she could play and her and I both would play then. And then uh I lost a little girl there that, {D: actually} that was after I was married that that's before I married. And I played in church, I could play just anything by note. And I lost a little girl I stayed out of played the violin and my daughter she went to school with she le- she got to where she could play pretty good but she {D: and then} she went to work and {D: I just} lost interest in I just done forgot all my notes I never did practice it you know {X} playing still play it some of them old pieces but lot of 'em I can't hardly think of you know? Forget a lot of 'em. I got a I got a son I got a my granddaddy Moran's violin, he bought it when he was he a young boy, he paid fifty-five dollars for it. And he give it t- and my granddaddy give it to one of the other boys and m- my daddy traded something for it, I don't remember how that and uh my his one piece {D: back} {D: And I} my youngest boy can play the fiddle, he {D: second} the guitar, he can pick any guitar, he had one of these steel guitar he played played it.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And he he got to where now he played the fiddle. {NS} And I bought a fiddle in the school when I was going there to go to the he got that. And that that old fiddle is so old the the I I made a last set of key for it {X}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And uh {NW} he brought it up there to Pop- to {D: Hannahsburg} cuz man up there said he could fix it. And he fix it and then he build that up but I told that boy {D: don't get your hope} And he had it they had {NW} some scratches on it, he had to fix that and he put a new fingerboard, it was {D: warped} so bad you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh {NW} and he put a new set of string, a bridge and a everything on it. And a set of keys. It cost him a hundred and ten dollars. And uh uh my daddy give it to one of my brother he died a few years ago there and uh {NS} then uh one day he was uh h- there was a man from New Orleans had some horses down by {D: Tally} there and my brothers would uh uh take care of during the week, he come out weekends. And he was telling about this {D: violin} one day and his wife said she wanted to see that {D: violin}, she come there and looked at it she asked him would she let would he let her take it to New Orleans there {X} Said yeah. He took it there and she said uh that man there sent him a note back that violin was worth a thousand dollars, anytime he wanted to bring it there he'd give him a thousand dollars for it. I said well should take it down there and tell her, let her take it down there and get a thousand dollars for it. He said you wouldn't take five thousand for it let alone a thousand. So that youngest boy of mine learned how to play it a little bit They say he wanted him to have it but he wanted me to keep it {X} until he was big enough, old enough to take care of it, you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And he brought it up there and they had the new fingerboard put on it fact that he still said that {D: something} not right, he told me to go bring. He charged him a hundred and ten dollars. And he'd go weigh it up there and he brought that other {X} there that he got there. And I got one here uh {D: Stradivarius} Say it's a {X} something I don't know. But uh I {D: played} that fiddle he got, I wish you could hear that thing, it's a one piece back. I I {X} say one of the best fiddle there is right there, anywhere.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And I I bet you you wouldn't take five thousand dollars for it.
Interviewer:  Hmm.
625:  And the one I got there now is the {D: Stradavarius} made in seventeen twenty-two.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And he sa- some people says it's a {X} some said it's a {X} {NW} and uh Anton Stradivari died in seventeen thirty-seven.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  I had bought one aft- {NW} before that, a Stradivari made in seventeen forty-two. I paid uh forced to pay twenty dollars for that, I gave the fella five dollars waiting for. When I was working then he left it {X} had the weekend, {D: to} sent him to a boss. I didn't want to buy the violin I had this sort of a {NW} He told me he'd sell it to me for twenty dollars if I'd give him five dollars and send him the rest of it up there. He went up there in two week to find it. And he called me said the man told me if I'd uh get him eighty dollars that day that he needed {X} he'd give me a receipt for it paid in full you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And so I'd call up Doctor Craig I told him go to the courthouse and Doctor Craig was there, I'd get him to play. {NS} And I called Doctor Craig and then {NS} told him that a man by {D: what} told him his name is {D: sign} description everything and I said if he come there give him eight dollars and get a receipt. {X} {NS} Paid {D: me} in full for a Stradivarian violin made in seventeen forty-two.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And he did. And about a year after that I sold it for about a hundred dollars.
Interviewer:  Huh.
625:  And I had a fellow wanting to buy this other one I got there, I told him I wouldn't sell that one. And I sold it to a man for a hundred dollars {X} He wanted it for his daughter and he brought it to one of these music store and had it fixed, it cost him cost him seventy-five uh fifty something dollars. And then about a year after that the fella told me he sold it for a hundred and seventy-five dollars. {D: So he} {NS}
Interviewer:  Huh.
625:  {D: Wasn't} I I I didn't figure it was as good a violin as the one I had even {D: had known that} might have been a {X}
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  {D: because the} oh I read the record of uh Antonio Stradivarius. He died in seventeen thirty-seven. And he and he had a son that learned the trade. And had the same pattern, same wood, the same everything {D: but} Anton had a a secret himself that he didn't know. That he because he t- he he {NW} he didn't compared to his uh son because he didn't know himself. He didn't know what he was but {D: there's a} the Stradivari violin said that uh nothing uh nothing'll beat it. And that uh Anton didn't know himself what it was but the vi- his son makes 'em good violin but they're not as good as the one that he made.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And that's what makes the difference.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Huh.
625:  I got this uh little violin there you want {NS} you wanna see it?
Interviewer:  Yeah I'd like to see it. {NS} That's it. Yeah.
625:  You see the reading inside there but it's
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Saturday night I heard a two girl play them fidd- uh piece there
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  I hadn't heard, I used to play that, me and one of my cousins. {NS} And uh I got my violin and played it. With a guitar, could have played it just as good as {X} I I'll play it for you.
Interviewer:  Okay.
625:  I don't know what they call it. {NS}
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
625:  #2 {NW} # I I don't remember what they call it though you know? {NS}
Interviewer:  Yeah. That was good though.
625:  I'll play you one uh I been knowing it as uh {X} but some fella told me not long ago there that played it, said it was soldier's joy. I I
Interviewer:  Okay.
625:  But I played it Jackson one day la- la- wo- last year there over there. And there's a fellow played a fiddle he come by he said, he asked me to name it out I sa- he said that's the prettiest piece of music he ever heard. But it uh {D: song is just} {X} it makes a difference he had to uh somebody {D: sang} it you know? {NS} That's one of them old timers
Interviewer:  Soldier's joy.
625:  #1 Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 That's # a good song.
625:  Yeah. {NS} I'll play you ano- another one of them old war s- {NS} {C: playing violin} {NW}
Interviewer:  That's great!
625:  Yeah. {NS} It'd be so much better though if {D: my son would join us} taking the guitar you know? And it'd make better times, sound better and all you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah. Well thank you, th- that's that does sound good mr {D: Varner} That's great. I appreciate you playing that for me.
625:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  That's quite amazing.
625:  Hey. Play the {X} it's kinda hard, I can't move my fingers like I used to you know?
Interviewer:  Okay. Alright, there it go. Go ahead.
625:  {NW} {NW} {D: I would} {D: cost you will hear} play one I bet I don't think anybody ever heard it. I'm gonna play Old Joe Clark for us. Y- y- know you you know that one?
Interviewer:  Yeah I've heard it before, I've heard it before but I'd like to hear it again. {NS}
625:  {NW} That's Old Joe Clark. {NS} {D: Now this one go} {X} {X} the guitar though. {X} {NS} Now I call that uh uh rye and whiskey. And uh what do you call this uh {NS} Now that was uh {NW} uh bot- uh {D: Jack of dime} and this is uh what they call Rye and Whiskey. {NS} I I never I never heard nobody play uh tune with fiddle like this one. Play it like that uh uh I never did {NW} {D: Sometime uh} {D: one} I never did hear nobody tune a fiddle play that before. Have you?
Interviewer:  No I hadn't. That was great. I enjoyed it. Thank you a lot.
625:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Do many folks around Kiln play?
625:  Well uh I got {D: uh two} I've got a nephew and he's got three boys they they got a band you might say they own, they got uh one of 'em plays lead guitar there, the guitar and the bass and he plays the fiddle. I saw my my nephew and they got a fella plays with 'em what plays the piano you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And they got a another nephew of mine, a great uh nephew of mine that plays the fiddle with 'em too, he's good. I got two great nephew plays the fiddle good.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh
Interviewer:  Did uh did you ever play in a band or play for a dance or anything like that? Play for dances?
625:  I played for dances with fiddle and guitar but uh I never did play in a band you know? I seen a lotta time {X} I never knew how to tune a fiddle, I knew the places. And I'd rather dance in the than play a fiddle you know? And the somebody that maybe could play a little or some of 'em couldn't play and I had to do most of the playing, I'd rather dance than to play the fiddle and dance you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah. {NW} Yeah. {NS}
625:  But I used to play in church a lot, I used to play all the time in church at Kiln, I played there for years and years.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. {NS}
625:  I went to Washington two years ago last {D: Thursday} July this year and uh and up to December {X} two years ago. And my oldest daughter I didn't know I was gonna go 'til the day sh- Sunday I called her and uh {NS} when there was a third of the evening I told her she was here we'd go to Washington, she asked me what I had to do, I said I got some paper here just to sign to send 'em in. {D: But I said seven minutes} she'd be here {NW} Tuesday instead of Tuesday sh- they left us that Sunday to come here Monday you see. We got ready and uh they'd give me a name of in Washington to call one in Jackson, I called 'em and told 'em that I'd go and I called Jackson they said that uh they had uh one {X} on the plane there and if I could go up there I'd go but uh my daughter could go from here and meet me up there, I said no if I if sh- sh- if I'm gonna go with she's gonna go with you, {D: you know I wanna} go on the same plane, says well go ahead and take a plane here. And they'd reimburse me you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And we went and uh we uh we went down the third and we come back on the seventh. {NS}
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And they all expenses {D: room and eat and uh} then when I got back I got a hundred and twenty-five dollar check for {X} festival that was for Mississippi that year, you see.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And uh my {X} some people up there enjoyed it though. I really enjoyed that trip.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And last year we went uh to headed for to Jackson. We stayed there uh seeing it four days and three nights and they give us ten dollars a day and all our expenses and uh and uh fare. Mileage too you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  But them people made money up there man, they had cars coming in there, they'd c- charge uh ten dollars as much as ten dollars a car to park it in there you know?
Interviewer:  Huh.
625:  Ain't no telling how much how much money they made there, I bet you they had {NW} five six thousand cars parked there. And those days they charged ten dollars, they charged so much and they they {X} how many people in there you know?
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah #
625:  #2 They # made money up there. mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  But they washed and they had they they had everything else {X} they had something at Jackson too but nothing like they did up there. They had this {X} everything that people made {D: one} fella brought uh uh truckload of wood {D: they were making some} {D: yolls and bolls} in it and showing and showed how to make it you know and they'd make {D: Chris} there they'd make {X} they'd make Just anything could be made there you know? They'd make it there.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Huh. Um. Now can you tell me about your wife? {D: mr} Sylvester? Uh di- wou- you you said {NW} How old was she? When she
625:  She died uh on the third day of February nineteen s- sixty-five.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  She was born in uh first day of April nineteen uh six uh eighteen se- uh ninety-four.
Interviewer:  Okay. And uh you met her where'd you meet her? Can you tell me?
625:  Well we raised right close by together there. Not too far down {X} We went to school together.
Interviewer:  I see.
625:  {D: Yeah} {D: Uh-huh.} Yeah. Yeah she died sh- she died in a heart attack, she died one night well we usually wait {D: just} for the n- uh the news. And one night I was reading a magazine sometime {D: right} and she's listening at the news and she had a down all ready to go to bed and and I was reading about {NW} story about Cassius Clay you know that Muhammad Ali there and Cassius Clay and him and this uh other nigger had a fight or something about him, I I read the whole story.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And when I got through {X} sometime we wouldn't go to bed 'til ten oh clock.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And it was after uh eight, nearly eight thirty I guess, I figured you know I'm getting sleepy {D: I said you ever want to} go to bed, she said she was too. So usually we'd talk {X} I was reading that all that time that she was listening that television and since she had clicked {D: it too and went} went to bed we sa- we'd usually say the rosary, we'd say the rosary before we go to bed you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And we said the rosary and we went and laid down and I rest- {D: wasn't gone} to bed thirty minutes. Sleep I mean. When she wake up and call me, she said to get up and do something for her, she asked something she never had and I got up. It was wasn't all that cold but I got up and run the heat lit the heater you know. First. And uh it was in February but it wasn't all that cold. And uh then I I went to the she said her arm was hurting and everything {D: she got} I called my daughter she live just a just two story {X} down back there and then we lived over there on in the second county and on uh County Farm Road On the highway fifty-three. Uh my brother had my son had bought that place and I moved there a while we I moved my house on this side and I spent nearly three thousand dollars put a new roof on it and put a back porch, a front porch and all that. Then after my she died I quit, I didn't do nothing no more. So I called my daughter and told her to call the doctor and she called the doctor, the doctor said to give her some {D: Paragolic} if she had some and and sh- and uh she called my neighbor my niece my nephew lived right across the road, she called her and and uh she said she had some. She come over there and she give {X} by that time my daughter'd come. And I don't know, they said well let's take her to the hospital. We picked her up and uh brought her there and by the time we got there she'd passed away, you know?
Interviewer:  I'm sorry to hear that {X}
625:  {D: A sad tale.} {D: It's one of them thing I tell you} it life had never been the same you know except that nobody knows it, you know? We raised, we had six raised six children, we had seven but one of 'em was first first one was a girl. The next one was a boy and the third one was a girl and the little girl died when she was four and a half years old. And uh very hard to thing to get over, you know? So I I had I still have three boys and three girls. Living you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  My oldest daughter live in Minnesota, I just got back from there last Saturday, I went over there and I went to a male's clinic. While I was up there. {D: Boy that's something for a person that uh that's} it's worth something just to go there and just look at that state.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  I went through it and had a treatment, I went lucky uh {NW} we went there Friday before the sixteen then my daughter done most the talking, she told 'em that uh I went up there and visit and and {D: then there went the nurse} uh Y'all sick? {X} which I did, I felt bad and I'd like to go to the clinic. And they they ran the- they run you through drill then but they get through with so the first thing I knew they're the they call up they'd call {NW} They put {D: Emory} put three twenty-four hundred peoples a day through that place.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And uh they they called my name after you want to go there you give 'em the name of your register and to give me the name. They tell you were to go and where they where you wait and they call you and they tell you where to go. And they uh they call us {X} I had an appointment at nine oh clock about eleven oh clock they called me and told me that to come back to uh fri- uh on the sixteenth.
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
625:  #2 At # nine oh clock. And then sixteen seventeen and eighteen and I heard some of 'em tell 'em to come on the fifth of July, some on the seventh, some on the sixth, some on the eighth. But I went through there and on on three days and it was through. I'm telling you, when they get through with it {X} they know what's wrong with ya.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  I been {X} the trouble is I found out {NW} I think my biggest trouble I was taking too many medicines. {X} I sh- I had prescr- copper and a prescription, all my medicine he coughed him all out except the cough medicine and the and a and a {D: noxin} a white tablet for skip heart skip. I don't have heart trouble, I just use skip to and another one is uh {X} {D: quine} medicine I take a tablespoon once in awhile for digestion. That's the only thing he left. To eat off all the rest of it, I been sleeping and eating better since I come back.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Um. Can you tell me about did your wife's folks. Did she live did her folks live uh in Hancock County?
625:  Yeah. They they they uh they were born they were raised right there {X} about four miles from the Kiln. on {D: Jill Pickian} Road.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh they're they pretty well {D: on.} Uh now the two oldest boy there the oldest boy he he he just went to public school something and the next one, that's all he did too. He went one year in high school to {X} uh to uh {D: Haddenburg} and then his daddy opened up a little store there and a little place by {D: Taller} there. Uh he runned it there for a while couple years, two or three years, then he close it he done pretty good, he didn't lose no money but uh then uh then he went to work {D: for different} one he worked for contractors and first one thing then another.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And those boy he he worked around in the saw mill there and and the {NS} Done a little farming. He raised cotton and he he work and do a little farming.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh then uh the second uh the actually there was four boys and two girls. And the other two youngest boys they went to a- actually a public school, they went to high school at {D: Plankeston} And uh one of 'em finished and he graduated there. And and {D: they both} one of 'em graduated {D: eh uh} before he went there. And then he enlisted he enlisted from in the service. Right after {D: he} in World War One you know? And the unfinished too I mean they both finished same year and all the other finished a year after and then he fi- and he enlisted from there, he didn't even come, he enlisted in the Navy you know? And they we- they both went through the war and and uh {D: they were in the/ they won the} First World War. He was in the army. He enlisted all the time he was over there they'd they'd write him and they'd send him boxes of fruit and things like that. He never did get nothing, he was gassed one time.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  You know that gas and uh the only time they ever heard from him is a nun. Catholic nun. Wrote a letter for him. And they said that he was he had been gassed but he was improving and he was out of danger and not to worry about him, they would take {X} {D: investive} care and he would soon be alright, he would get to where he said he said it had affected his eye but he was getting to where he could see and he could see good {X} that he was uh that they she would keep 'em in for him and not to worry that he was doing good. And they knowed {D: they get a l-} that's the only thing I ever got from him until he uh was discharged and come home. Uh-huh. And then when he come home he went to college he went to where they worked at up up up {D: Fergus} then it was just {D: Surilly} High School you see, they went through eighth grade and they went to {D: Finny} high school there.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And then y- then he went to four year college and and he took uh agriculture and and uh he worked for the government. He inspected these fruit and things coming over seas you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh the youngest one he took veterinary. He went down there Alabama {D: there} and uh and completed course there and and he worked uh {NW} {NW} {D: no no} the one that was um {NS} {X} he lived to be he was about eighty-four eighty-three eighty-four years old when he died. And uh the other two was, one of 'em the oldest one was seventy-two when he died and the next one was seventy-seven and then this one was eighty-three. And the youngest one there he was uh seventy seventy-eight or seventy-nine he was a veterinarian. And he he worked he he worked up in {X} state of the union you know he he'd uh {NW} he must have been good because he'd go around and sent it he'd send 'em they'd send him around and he'd go round and then and and then and test cattle, they have people go with him and test {D: for a bang} and different thing you know? And if they needed any vaccination then he'd get the veterinarian round locally there to do it and he'd go round and have people there, have their cattle pinned up you know to to do the work. And {D: Indian} Mississippi in United States. I mean uh in Mississippi and up above here he had trouble with some people, some people told him they that they there's nobody gonna {D: pin his up} their cattle. And uh and when you don't pen the cattle they to dip 'em and to vaccinate 'em, one of 'em said they weren't gonna disturb the cattle and {X} so he went and talked to 'em, he told 'em he says well he said he was sent there by the gov- federal government and he said its wrong they had to do it but it benefited the cattle and a benefit for them if they could understand it. They tried to explain to 'em and he talked with 'em and he'd get somebody to communicate that uh would uh {X} pretty good, and he'd talk to 'em and he'd go out there and talk to these people 'til he convinced them you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  Some of 'em would uh they would threaten, if they'd do that he'd uh go stand there and shoot at him while they pinned the cattle. Well she said they you you never did get to the point of where he had to do that but he always get around and uh and uh ask somebody to help him talk to 'em and they'll get 'em to {NW} uh convince 'em that they ought to do it you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Y- you know I know when they started dipping in this country for for ticks. Man there's some people, I had a brother he was uh uh wood rider, he'd you had to brand 'em on the shoulder you know and and and he'd ride the one, find some that wasn't branded he'd had he pinned 'em you know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And he worked uh one fella there one time he {NW} pinning cows there and he pin him there and the before he come out there with a pistol. And they tell man he told 'em says he said he didn't come there for no trouble but he said if you put that gun down he says I'll w- I'll whip you before you can say scat. Said I ain't got a gun but he said if I have to come back here again he said I uh I'll have a gun. Said I don't bring a gun with me but I said that if I'd come back here I'd have one. Then I said I'm gonna use it too. Well he said you put that gun down, let me show you how quick I can whip ya. {NW} But he didn't and uh he went ahead doing uh he made a charge against him. And they he had to go there and withdraw the charge and and then they'd come and and and and tend those cows too.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  It's funny I a man I thought the world of uh I was surprised of doing something like that you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Some people are you find some people they don't understand say {X} you know and they won't listen to anybody explain to think nobody knows anything but them, you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah. What do you call people like that?
625:  Uh I call people like that like the fellow was working for the old man {X} one time he told me about a fella coming there to take his place and he was so sarcastic. One day he call me says uh {D: Vess} says uh uh what you call something like that? I said mr Magner there's a name for something like that, right now I can't uh call it, he said it {NW} it started o- off. I said you got it I said it's an albatross And I said that that's somebody that don't uh don't agree with anything anybody {D: has to} do. He s- he said that's it. So he went home, he looked at the dictionary he come back he said boy he said we got it right. He said that's the way that fella is, he don't agree with anything. We had a uh I'd get letters from the townkeeper in {D: Lomaton} you know, he address it to me you know? And uh one day I got a letter that from up there and it said uh this should be your authority hereafter not to sign to not to give anyone of them a work card to be examined {D: or} on the twenty-one years of age or over fifty unless you have a s- a okay from the {D: mr C-J Pettybarn} and the undersigner.
Interviewer:  #1 The #
625:  #2 Uh-huh. # The undersigner was the auditor you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And and uh let's see, Jeff Pettybarn when he hired me he told me I'd be strictly working under the auditor you know? And I showed this man this uh letter like I did over in {X} O- uh when I {NW} so about a week after that they come to uh uh time sheet in there with a boy named {D: Annuelle} he was about sixteen years old you know? And uh I put a a a I erased the total, I le- I I ran a pencil through it and I erased the extension. I left the name, the hours, and the rate there, you know? And I made a little symbol down {D: in him} down there made a symbol, I made that withhold name from payroll 'til he get an okay from mr Ba- Badger or mr Pettybarn. {NS} Man that fella went and I told the next morning I told that man, I said you tell {D: Frank Cheena} that he was assistant he'd make the time for you assistant time uh shipping clerk. Say you tell Frank I'm not putting that boy's name on the payroll 'til I get an okay from mr Pettybarn. And then he even had a {D: two three} run in. This fellow {D: Hein} had hired from Prichard, Alabama was sent down there. He come in there, I could tell when he come round there {X} {D: stole that} man what's this they tell me you're not putting all my men on the payroll? Working out there. I said mr Warren I'm putting all your men out there on the payroll except that boy. I said I said you sure I showed you the letter I got from mr Badger the other day. Telling me not to put a man o- over fifty years old or under twenty-one on the payroll but I first have a a sign okay from mr Badger or the the mr Pettybarn would {X} to sign it. Which is the auditor. Said it's a hell of a damn place. For a man can't have nothing done in the office. I said no and you and uh you never will either, I said {X} when mr Pettybarn hired me I he told me I'd be strictly working under the auditor {D: that's just not to be a right} And uh I sa- uh before that I uh {D first all I'd ask them about that month} about two months I was {D: stan} assistant timekeeper I mean timekeeper and I'd check the time. Went around there and one day I got a letter says this'll be your authority hereafter any man who has not have his badge w- on his body in a conspicuous place to lay him off. And I showed {D: everyone} in the Kiln says {X} {NW} and I went out there the first day I told everybody. You got to have your number on you where I can see it and I said I sure don't I even took the letter, showed some of 'em. And there's one nigger that's standing up on the wood pile, I said where's your {D: badges} He said it's over there on my cap under my cap Where's your cap? Over there by my lunch. I said well today I'll check it but tomorrow you got to have it on your shirt where I can see it. I said that's not my order, it's the order from the auditor, from Lomaton, I got a letter. Today the man didn't have his number on his person where I could see it, not to give him time. H- he kept working you know. So the next day I went there {X} I says where's your number? Says it's on my cap. I said where's your cap? By my lunch box. He was tall, black, kinda sarcastic nigger. I said well you worked this much for nothing, it was about ten thirty. I said you might as well go home, you're not getting for nothing for what you done today. I I put a zero there you know? {NS} And I got to the other end of the {NS} the the yard foreman was a white man, he had a a nigger for an assistant, he had a blind one eye blind, he was good good man, he was a nigger. And he he whistled at me, he come by that fella told me {X} he come there he said mr Moran says uh let Will, give Will that time today, I'll see that he wears badge I said well I told him yesterday in plain English. And his father there'll tell you that today I said it wasn't my order order from the Lomaton au- auditor. And I says I'm not giving his time at all I said if you wanna pay you can pay it {X} So he was shorter, {D: they paid the} shorter this nigger wa- this Will was sister to the yardman that went to old man {B} he was a nice fella, he told him about it says I I I I give him didn't give him a na- a date at first He says how come, he says because the man didn't have his number. He said you gonna see mr Moran about that, he's running that job, said I ain't got a damn thing to do with that. mr {NW} mr Moran {D: has everything to do with it} And he never did get paid for it either. The next day I went there though he had his number on him you know? If I'd let him by, I'd let the rest of 'em you see?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And he never did get his money for it either.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Um mr Moran uh wa- uh what about uh your wife's education? Can you tell me how much education she had?
625:  She had about uh eight eighth grade education, she went to public school.
Interviewer:  Okay.
625:  She had a chance to go to high school here but her brother's went but she didn't want to.
Interviewer:  Yeah. You said uh you said your you had, you went to the same s- {X} didn't you?
625:  Yeah.
Interviewer:  Did you go all the way through?
625:  No I went three years. I didn't finish. And I have some important job in the county there I kept books for the county which was a very tedious thing.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And some people finish high school today, they can't spell can't hardly spell to figure.
Interviewer:  That's the truth.
625:  I I I I learned my multiplication tables to twelve in the third grade, when I went {D: Standersloff} I could s- I learned to twenty-five. You can ask me anything, nineteen times nineteen, nineteen times seventeen or anything, I could tell you just like that. And and I could tell you fractions everything in fraction one after the other, now I can't you know like twelve and a half is one eigth. {NW}
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Sixteen and two third is one sixth or something like that, I could tell you all that. But now I I {X} you you ask {X} uh a high school {X} what the fraction now they they won't know what you're talking about. They don't know what you're talking about fraction.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  mm-hmm
Interviewer:  Yeah. Um. Well can you tell me, where you ever in any clubs around the Kiln? {D: That were that} did they have any, you didn't have any did you have any social clubs or anything like that around there?
625:  Well for a while there uh they had the Woodsmen of the World there and I was the last uh clerk of the Woodsmen of the World there around the {D: Kiln there.} Then they had a Knights of Columbus in Bay St. Louis that belonged to us.
Interviewer:  Yeah. Okay. And your wife, was she a member of any clubs or organizations?
625:  Don't think she was, she was she's a housewife raised, we had six children and uh seven but six of 'em {X} they were about like step children you know and she she done a good job housekeeping and not bragging on myself but I raised six nice children, I remember fella by the name {B} {D: Banker} there. I done business for thirty-seven years when I moved down to there. And uh {NS} After I moved out I was still doing business with him. About six months after I went back there, I was talking with him. He said Sylvester you know you're gonna quit uh business with us, he was working for the merchant bank, you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Been there thirty-seven years I said no you're I says uh I'm not gonna quit ya, you've been too good to me. I said you done me favor when I needed it and I'm gonna stay with you. He said well Sylvester you's lay down and die happy, you raised a family to be proud of. And he says you been a man that always done what you said you would do. I {D: seen me} I was in the boat business there one time, I bought a truck and a had a truck, a trailer, and I bought some timber there from a man there. I didn't have a dime, I went there, I taked to the man, I says he had a hundred-sixty acre {X} timber. I I went to see him one Sunday I told him I I I after I'd been hauling milk five years, I had the truck last in good shape. I went to see him, I told him I went to see him I thought I'd I I had a truck, all I needed was a trailer, I'd buy his timber if he wanted to sell it. I No he said I don't believe I want to sell my timber. I said well let me make an estimate of it and tell you how much I can pay you for it. And he said one fella working for Crosby there by the name of Mitchell went there one day and told me he'd give him seven hundred dollars for his timber.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  He said he told if he didn't have more than seven hundred dollars worth of timber he wouldn't give him he'd give 'em to him.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  Then about two months after he come back and offered him fourteen hundred. Well I said I'll tell you what I'll do His name was {X} I said I'll go up there and check I said I'm gonna go {X} I says I I checked every trail on your on the on the uh land that'll make a pole. And when I get through I figure out and tell you how much I can pay you for it. And I said I ain't got the money but I says before I cut the first tree I'll I'll c- I'll pay for everything uh I promise you, before I cut the first tree.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  Well he says. Sylvester I believe you're a man wants to do the right thing, you go ahead and make an estimate and if if I don't sell I'll pay you for the estimate.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  I said no if I if I make the estimate you know I don't you don't sell I won't charge you for it. And a fellow by the name of {B} told me that if I could find some timber to buy he'd pay for it, you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  So I went ahead and I made the estimate that day and and I went there that {D: summer summer} Sunday I said I'll be here Wednesday. I had a nephew knew something about timber and I knew something about it, had a car. And I had a boy, that one that lived here. He was young boy, he was just finished high school, he was working I got a big stick and uh uh {X} stick about that long, a {D: drum} stick and I tied a rag around it, put some lime in it. And I had a I had a board with different numbers on it. And I'd that boy, it was easy to figure I could do it he measured about up to {D: hine sight and} all that you didn't have to measure, you could tell what he'd make. What he'd make seven thirty-five or three forty-five or nine forty-five or {NS} whatever I {NS} and uh we'd and every time he'd check one he'd hit in on {D: Simon's door} so we wouldn't count 'em twice you know?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And when I went out there that that that there's a fella Mitchell that sent 'em out {NS} uh uh fella there and a boy he went there about nine oh clock. They were there just about an hour, we got there about nine thir- nine thirty, they got there about eight thirty nine oh clock. And they went out there and we started it was about ten oh clock when we got started. And at about two oh clock they were through and they finished and left. And we started Wednesday, I got through to Saturday at twelve oh clock. Friday we s- eaten dinner right at these old place there, wife was dead and he stayed there, he'd eaten dinner. He'd often stay there and go off you know? He'd come there and and uh I told him, I figured at Friday at noon, I said I'll be with you through here tomorrow sometime He went out there he asked me what I {NS} a pole a a tree like that would bring him. I told him. He said well says Sylvester, I believe that my timber's cut {D: you the one who gonna cut it.} And uh so when I got through Saturday I told him I says, well I went by his house we got through about twelve oh clock I says uh it may be a week or ten days before I come here, I says I got to figure all this out. And I says I'll come back I says and see you before I go up {D: and see Croft there and I says then I go up.} So I went up there and he said if you don't come in a month I s- two months he said don't worry I won't, it wo- won't sell it 'til you come back. So I went there and I told him how much I'd give him from the and before that, before I told him I said uh I said these fella come Ben Lee and that boy come here and e- they estimate your timber. I said I got the figure down here I can't change 'em. I says I can let you look at anybody else. I said I want you to tell me what they offering. I I he told me I showed him the {X} owed him three hundred dollars more than what they offered me.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh Tha- I had twenty-one hundred and some pole. Twenty-one hundred and thirty something. And uh there's one man his daddy was getting timber, he went there and he offered them twenty-five cents a stick, wood and all. {NW} I'd get it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  And he said he wouldn't sell it to him or nobody else. And uh so I s- when I went down told him I said now tell what I'm gonna do. I said I'm gonna go have a timber deed made and I'm gonna have uh Judge Prudice come here and sign the timber deed and I said he's a justice of peace and I wanna hear him as witness. When he s- when he's when he signed that, when he signed that timber deed from me he borrowed the money on it. And he'd be witness that it's not my timber until I pay you for it. I said is that alright? Said that's fine Sylvester, that I know you gonna do the right thing. So I did, I had the timber deed made and I took Judge Prudice with me, he was uh justice of peace. He's been there for years. {NS} Now I went there and I told him I said {X} w- uh timber deed, I said I want Judge Prudice to read it to you first. He read it. And Judge Prudice told him he said it's a regular timber deed and he says uh mr Moran tells me he wants to sign it, he he b- he need that to borrow the money. And he says uh he won't cut the timber until uh he he pays you for it, says and if I'll be witness it's not legal until he pays you for it.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  So I said nah I come one day next week and we go to Crosby. I'll meet you and go to {X} So I did and a fella at told me he'd give me the money he was working for. {NS} So I took him and went over there and uh th- this fellow starts yelling dealing with him {D: come body} and he called me on the side {NS} he says and that fella turn, he was there and he told me, he said I'll be {X} a wrench in the cog wheel told me he's not gonna put out the money. And uh he told me on the side he said mr Moran, why don't you let me buy that timber and and and you let you cut it? I says mr {D: Starksteel there and mr Holder} you go there and buy it said you perfectly well to go there and make him an offer and if he wants it you you buy right nine, get money for it, says if Crosby got the money, he can pay for it. He said yeah but he said you won't sell it to nobody else but you. Well I said how come he said I ain't got no money pay for it. So after a while I told {X} Said I want to go up there and talk {X} {NW} he told me {X} told me he said I know Bee Crosby gonna let you have the money. And he told me after I talked to {D: Starksteel} he says uh {D: Starksteel} told him about it and uh I went I said let me go talk to him I said hell he ain't no better than me, he's got money but that's all. I went there and I talked with him and he told me he couldn't do it. I said well mr mr Crosby I said let me tell you one damn thing, you're not doing it man, you got the money? I got a friend that's got money. So the next day I went to the {D: b...} talked to {D: Wallard James}. {X} {NS} his {D: daddy'll} they had control interest in the merchant bank there. And one day I showed him the figure I said Walt I need I need uh I need twenty-five hundred and something dollars there. To pay for that timber. And I said I need, I want to get right away Walt says you come back tomorrow he says I'll I want to take it up with the committee, not because I do- {X} you know but said now you got to have something to tell 'em.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  {D: Said I} {X} see John {D: LeWheat} or somebody so the next day I went there he said you know John we didn't come in the other day. I says what if I get {B} {D: one of you do} said {D: do just well} Says I'll go get him. I go over in front of the courthouse and then I go there {B} come there to {D: way of stop} to get out the call call him I said come here George, I said get in the car with me, I'm with you. Said what you want? I wanna go to the bank {X} bank and Walter was there I says yeah {D: he's Walter} {D: George} And George walks over and says uh Sylvester tell me he bought, {D: I told him here} all this timber. He says you want so much for it, then he sell that {X} I want somebody to tell me the timber's there beside him. Joy says the timber's there every bit of it is there, he said you have the finest timber I know anywhere in this county right now. Well he says that's all I want, says come back tomorrow. Next day I went back there and I got the money. And uh when I left there that day with a {D: hole there} I didn't tell him about it, if I'd told him {X} uh uh Mitchell. I started off I told him about it. {NS} Boy, he was hung. He said if you had told me that Sylvester, I just wanted to walk out that door and says I did that {X} so hard that I'd hurt him. And uh {X} Klein told me he's the one called it, you know? I said that's the reason I didn't tell you, I didn't want you to do it. So. So I went uh and when I went there that next morning that uh {NW} he told his sister to give me a check for twenty-five hundred and thirty dollars be in full. And I told him I'd sign him an audit {X} for them to haul out what a forty percent of it until it's paid, until I could sell some it to someone else and I sold most of it to a man {X} Company in in New Orleans you know, I hauled it down to Lakeshore.
Interviewer:  Yeah.
625:  And uh I didn't have no troubles {X} he let me have the money and I didn't have to fool with {D: Coffney}
Interviewer:  Huh. Uh Can you tell me something about life in the Ki- around the Kiln? Uh mean {X} I heard there were some pretty rough characters there in the thirties. That so?
625:  Well they wasn't all that bad. uh uh some what I tell you what it was. Back in the thirties there was a a little before that they had a community {D: Kiln} they had one at {D: Scranton} up above {D: Deedo} they call it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  There {D: wa- had a standard} And up there where we lived was kinda {D: north ways of} {D: County Hooter they call it, the little turpentine.} {X} the the people with the money would go to the other. Bunch of boys they get in there, they'd get in a fight you know?
Interviewer:  #1 Yeah #
625:  #2 {D: Younger} # people from Stanton uh Deedo {X} come to the {D: Kiln.} They'd get in a fight well they had {NW} they never let nobody gets crippled like that. But uh they'd get in a fight, {D: see} a few licks past somebody stop it {D: and be at} you know? But you know what's done more good than anything else uh when they started that consolidated school.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  They done that uh uh let's see that must have been u- up in the in the right at the beginning {D: the} right into the maybe in the late twenties.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
625:  They consolidated maybe must have been in the twenties. {D: They co-} they uh I knowed a fella by the name of {D: John Crash who} {X} and there's a fella by the name of Andrew Lott was a trustee there and he had a brother by the name of Tony. Andrew Lott. {X} {D: little visit} {D: there in the Kiln} and he was in favor of consolidated school and the old man told him Lott had some land out there, he couldn't really write. And uh uh so he was against it and they had they had {X} they worked on it and they had the the s- the day they had the the school board declared declared that they would have consolidated schools, they'd they'd buy land and build the school right there at the Kiln you know? At just uh {NW} Must have been the early twenties, wasn't long before Heinz opened {D: up there} {D: Cuz when Heinz furnishes them all} {X} They first the uh uh lower building there and uh so Tony Lott was against it, Andrew was for it {NW} a- and and uh {X: John Crash, the superintendent of education). And uh old {X} {D: So they say he was out there and {NS} and uh Andrew Lott said uh uh {X} the old {D: crafts} {D: about Andrew} he said he says Andrew we got him we got him and