791: {X} Interviewer: Okay. Can I get your full name? 791: Levian (C: should be beeped out} {B} Interviewer: Okay. And this community is? 791: Calstone. Interviewer: Okay. You know the date today? 791: Tenth I think. Yeah it's the tenth. Interviewer: Okay. What's this parish? {X} 791: Barneth. Interviewer: Now Leesville is the? 791: County seat. Interviewer: County seat? 791: Right. Interviewer: I see. Why they call it the county seat instead of the parish seat? 791: Well it it's the same difference some 'em call it the county seat and some of them parish seat. Interviewer: I see. 791: Or the courthouse. Interviewer: Mm-kay 791: Sheriff's office same thing. Interviewer: With that real law 791: Right. Interviewer: {X} 791: Order Interviewer: Law and order. ah Was your birthplace can you tell me a little bit about your you know what you've done with ah 791: Well I was born on the {D: foul} {D: gravel} which is about ah five miles west of Leesville. Interviewer: Yeah. 791: And later back when I was six years old I moved Sabine Parish. Lived in Sabine Parish until the beginning of World War Two. Interviewer: How long approximately would you say you lived in Sabine Parish? 791: Lived there from the time I was six 'til I was eighteen. Probably twelv- twelve years that I lived in Sabine. Interviewer: Okay. 791: And then moved went into the service in World War Two. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 791: And uh came back here lived here ever since. Interviewer: To this 791: #1 I moved # Interviewer: #2 town? # 791: here. {NS} Moved here Thanksgiving day in nineteen fifty-one. {X} Interviewer: Hmm uh 791: But I did live in Sabine Interviewer: Yeah. 791: from the time I was six 'til I was eighteen and I went to service. Interviewer: And what can I ask about your what you did for war for you after you left the service uh {NS} 791: I worked for air and transportation for a short while and then I went to hauling {D: detain} I hauled de- tr- drove detain trucks from nineteen fifty to nineteen sixty three. Interviewer: Yes sir. 791: I worked for Charleston Gas Company worked for {X} gas company ended up going into business three of 'em formed a partnership {D: star detain.} And then in sixty-three I sold out took my two parts. Interviewer: Okay. 791: In other words, I had a I had a farm but just it just {NS} raised my own proceeds that's what it amounts to I raised my own food to fill the freezers. Interviewer: Did you farm some? 791: Uh not in no big way he he farmed ten twelve fifteen acres all his all of his life. Interviewer: Yeah. Hmm Well patient you you you worked for a oil {NS} uh Petrol driver who drove a rig and that sort of thing? 791: Right. Interviewer: What what did you call it? What's a kind of {D: general} designation? #1 for it? # 791: #2 uh # Butane Interviewer: Yeah. You hauled butane. 791: Butane delivery and repair man. Maintained all the butane equipment for all of it. Finally the bu-butane Interviewer: Now this address is 791: Route six Box two seventy. Interviewer: Leesville? 791: Leesville. Interviewer: Okay can I ask your age if possible? 791: Fifty-one Interviewer: Alright. And your religion? 791: Baptist. Interviewer: Baptist. Alright. Baptist is the largest denomination. I'm Methodist but that you know but my father tells the old story about that about the church he went to he he was raised back in the country and he said uh the baptist church right across the road was always they were always singing uh will there be no the Methodists were always singing will there be stars in their {D: crowns and} natural thing, no not one. #1 {NW} # 791: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: Now you said you went to the school {X} 791: Right right. Interviewer: Okay. Tell me a little about uh your education that sort of thing. 791: I went to uh military school until mid-term in tenth grade then entered service. When I returned from service I went to night school and finished high school. Received my diploma from the night time high school. Interviewer: I'll say. You live in {D: Epton} 791: No sir I went and come. Interviewer: Is that so? 791: Yeah. Interviewer: You 791: It's just fifty-six miles if you go the Crookwood road. Interviewer: Yeah. 791: About fifty-six miles. Interviewer: From here? 791: Yep. Interviewer: But every day? 791: Uh no I didn't I didn't have to go but too long with it that was under that new set up with the army in other words to get your diploma. Interviewer: Yeah. 791: And mostly went and take the tests it was it amounted to. Interviewer: {X} You studied mostly at home? 791: Permission to take home yeah. Interviewer: That's a funny name and I never hear it. {D: Napika} 791: It's hardly useful. Interviewer: I'm trying to figure out how to Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your parents? Where they were born and where they were raised, that sort of thing? 791: My father was uh born in Sabine Parish. Interviewer: Yeah. 791: My mother was born in Vernon Parish. And when they were married well they lived in Vernon Parish. Up until I was six years old and that's when we moved to Sabine. And my father lives out in {X} Interviewer: Okay. Now 791: My mother still lives in Sabine Parish. Interviewer: Okay. What what about your folks' education? {X} 791: {X} Interviewer: Okay. Now uh about your can you tell me about their occupation and education? A little 791: Well my father he he was running a log cutter and a scaler Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 791: and farmed on the side. Interviewer: That's a big occupation here 791: Big occupation and Interviewer: here in the day. 791: #1 Right. # Interviewer: #2 In the old day. # 791: He had days he cut lots logs and I've heard him say that he cut enough logs to have floored Sabine Parish solid with logs. Interviewer: {NW} 791: And later life he began to get older while he became a log scaler. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And He uh farmed just on the sideline to raise something to eat. Well back in 'em day it wasn't a lot of money in circulation. Interviewer: Money was 791: Money was scarce. Interviewer: yeah. {NW} I tell you what I heard I've heard some stuff about this Parish. You know the Parishes I've been working in they're not really rich. Like I'm from the South I'm from South Georgia. 791: South Interviewer: yeah. We weren't rich either. I heard therein the depression now folks had to folks had to turn to illegal manners of making money that is raising brewing some uh stuff out in the woods. 791: Well they there were lots of people who did. My my father never never did he he always does {NS} he was a good provider. We never went hungry and sometimes kinda slim pickings but he always managed to feed us now. uh Course it dipped when World War Two started that's why he'd and every-everybody began to live {X} And of course back in the late thirties while they're starting dipping uh days and every one had to dip well dip their cattle. Interviewer: yeah. {NW} 791: And he became {D: range rider and} he managed the dipping days were over well he got {NS} to stay on and ride Sabine River to keep cattle from crossing from Texas into Louisiana. Interviewer: Yeah. 791: Bringing the fever tick back so {NS} he stayed on as range rider and rode the river Interviewer: Fever ticks are bad here right? 791: They were bad. Interviewer: Is that why they started it? 791: That's when they started their dipping days was to control the fever ticks. Interviewer: Yeah. Yeah. So you father was also kinda a cattle worker? 791: #1 Yes # Interviewer: #2 And # 791: we always we always had few cattle and Interviewer: Okay and do you remember his education or your mother. Did they do any? 791: About to sixth grade I believe I'm correct. They both went to about sixth grade. I remember one in- instance that uh my father's riding a range rider Sabine River and they had what they call black land slew. Well my father had had a Interviewer: What what's a black land slew? 791: It's a stream that runs into the river. Interviewer: Yeah. 791: Water streams in they call it the black land slew because it's in a black land com- country. The soil called black land. Well they called it the black land slew. Well my father had been riding and he sold this horse that he'd had been riding all these uh months. He got the chance to make a good profit off of the horse so he sold it and then turned around and bought a cheap horse and this one particular morning well there was ice, it was wet, still raining and freezing and he got to the black land slew well it was deep where it run into the river. The river water was backed up. He had a slicker on and when the horse got to the black land slew well he just kept wading on out in the slew and my father figured well he'll start swimming in a minute but the horse never did swim he walked across on the bottom. {NW} He had with my father on him and the horse when he come out the other side, why my father's clothes were all froze well the only way he could warm up was he had uh some matches in the sweat band of his hat so he built him a fire and had to dry his clothes but they froze he just stood his clothes up and somebody was {X} but it Interviewer: #1 {NW} # 791: #2 I don't know there were times when all rolled him back # Interviewer: Yeah, I tell ya, That is that's quite a #1 story. # 791: #2 But I # I figured you might want that {D: pitch you know the} Interviewer: {NW} Now okay your mother was always a house wife? 791: Right. Interviewer: She 791: She never public worked. Interviewer: Okay. Okay. Alright. This {B} uh can you remember anything about your grandparent's on your father's side? Where they came from? 791: {D: Eh just from} from West Virginia as far as I can remember. Grandfather came from West Virginia. And well a schoolteacher as far as a I could find out. Interviewer: Did you ever know him? 791: I-I remember him. I barely remember him. In other words he passed away probably about when I was six or seven years old about the we moved to Sabine Parish. Interviewer: Now he was a you said he was a school teacher? 791: Yes He was schoolteacher for West Virginia. Interviewer: And uh when did he come out here? Was your father born in West Virginia or? 791: No sir he was born here. Interviewer: Uh Oh okay that's what you told me that I'm Uh When did your grandfather move here? Did he ever tell you or did you 791: No sir not I can't remember. Interviewer: Yeah, yeah. 791: My mother could probably tell us but I can't remember when she when they moved. Interviewer: He had a good education pretty good education. 791: He got a good education. Interviewer: Right. uh 791: Back those days lot schoolteacher didn't have to have four six years of college. If they got a nine month uh college education well they could teach school they would come a schoolteacher. Interviewer: yeah. 791: In fact they hadn't been too many years ago that we got teacher who's been teaching right here didn't have full college education. Interviewer: Um Okay now your grandmother can you remember where she came from or or on your grandfather's side. Did he teach school here? 791: No sir I don't believe he ever taught school here. If he did I don't remember. I'd like to say he did. Interviewer: Wh-what did he do here uh {B} 791: Farm farmer. Interviewer: Okay. Okay and your grandmother do you remember 791: My grandmother was uh she was born and raised in Sabine Parish she was uh uh {B} Interviewer: Oh I see okay so h-he married her out here. 791: Right. Interviewer: So he must've come here pretty you know pretty 791: #1 Came here # Interviewer: #2 young man. # 791: I believe when he was a pretty young {NS} and For sure her last name was {B} uh she uh the sheriff head sheriff in Sabine Parish Pat, Pat Phillips why they were close kin and I'm pretty positive that she was published. Interviewer: Did uh he fight uh in the I wonder if he 791: I believe he I believe he possibly had been too old to have fallen in World War One. Interviewer: That was what the uh the uh war before that. One that freed the salves. 791: Well now he it's possible that he might fought in it, I just I couldn't say. Interviewer: Okay. What what do you call that war though? 791: Civil War wasn't it? Interviewer: yeah okay any other names for it? {X} 791: Not that I know of. Interviewer: Alright. uh now 791: #1 if I made # Interviewer: #2 your grandparents # 791: {X} some people might have called it the war between the states Interviewer: Uh-huh Okay. Now your grandparent's on your mother's side can you tell me about them? That's yo- your're grandmother 791: They was they was both born and raised about ten miles west of Leesville. Interviewer: Kay. 791: My grandfather's name was {X} {B} Grandmother's name was {B} My grandmother was {D: Jane} before she married my grandfather. Interviewer: That's in Vernon Parish? 791: Right. All that's in Vernon Parish. Interviewer: So uh so your mother is your on your mother's side your actually about the third generation here in-in Sabine in this parish right? 791: Right. Interviewer: In Vernon Parish so did the name was Burrel? 791: {D: Burrel Dees} {C: should be beeped out} Interviewer: Dees. Okay. Did they farm? 791: They farm cattle {D: raise} {X} Interviewer: Uh Okay. And their education? Can you remember anything? 791: No sir I don't. Interviewer: Did did either one of 'em uh did you know either one of them or? 791: Oh yeah. I-I remember both of 'em. Interviewer: Do they read and write? Uh 791: Yes sir they can read and write. Interviewer: Go back any further than that? Do you remember did they ever tell you about their-their parents or anything like that? 791: Mm not that I can remember. uh Interviewer: In other words were they born they were born and raised here right? 791: They were born and raised here and their parents both lived and they born and raised here. Their parents were born and raised here. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Uh now um Tell me can you tell me about the first house you lived in? {B} And-and what it was like and that sort of thing. 791: uh Well the first house that I lived in a {X} came back from service and was married was uh Interviewer: Well the first house you were born? 791: Oh oh that I was born in? Interviewer: yeah. 791: It was a large-large house uh plain noth-nothing fancy but a nice home that we built out of new lumber. And it was Interviewer: It had over the si-outside it had 791: It had {X} or or one by eight uh drop side. shiplap I believe they call it. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 791: #2 shiplap # Interviewer: Alright. 791: And as far as I remember it wasn't painted the house burned in later years after we moved away from it. Why it burnt but it was a-a nice home. I mean for back in those days. Interviewer: yeah. 791: My daddy was uh stayed in lodge at {X} It was about the time World War One was over or after and he bought the lumber and had the house built. Interviewer: yeah. Now what'd you have for for kinda place where you cooked your food 791: #1 We had the # Interviewer: #2 stuff like that? # 791: kitchen with a wood stove. Interviewer: Okay. 791: No running water had a well you'd always draw the water. Maybe yours had a spring. Interviewer: Okay can you can you kinda give me a description of what the house was like? Did it have a 791: It had a front long front porch. Interviewer: Okay. Do you call it a porch always? 791: Right. Front uh but you can specify front porch and back porch well a lot of homes had a front porch and a back porch. This particular home had a long front porch with a hall leading off the front porch going down the center of the house. Interviewer: Okay. 791: With rooms on each side of the hall and a kitchen in the rear. Interviewer: Alright. Now uh you had a hall. Did you ever call hall anything else or was it just 791: No sir it's hall. Interviewer: Breeze way? 791: Hall All it was ever called back in those days. Interviewer: Okay now the hall went down the center of the house. 791: Right. Interviewer: You had what maybe what room on the left there uh the first 791: #1 You had the # Interviewer: #2 rooms? # 791: You had a living room on the right, bedroom on the left, another bedroom on the left. A bedroom on the right a small screened in dining room at the end of the hall with the kitchen on the right. Room on the right Interviewer: Okay. 791: And then another bedroom on the right. And then at the end of the hallway there was a large screened in dining area and a kitchen to the right of the screened in {NS} Interviewer: Okay at the end of the hall you had a large screened in dining area? 791: Right. Interviewer: Was that uh was that did the house kinda taper off there? 791: Uh Interviewer: Or did it get smaller? {NS} 791: No sir it was about it was the same all the way back. Interviewer: Okay. 791: In other words it goes Interviewer: It was like this then? About? 791: Uh yeah a little bit. That's wait let me let me see here this dining area and uh all that bedrooms you have. This is the dining I mean living. Interviewer: Okay okay I got it now then you got you had the hall coming down in the two different rooms there. 791: Right right. Interviewer: Did the hall come all the way through? 791: All the way at the front porch. Interviewer: I see. 791: And it {X} in between right here but then that that was the end of the hall right here then you had the screened in enclosure for the dining area and then the kitchen. Interviewer: Nice. So there wasn't a wall between the kitchen and the dining room right? {NS} Was there? 791: yeah. Interviewer: There was? 791: Yes there was a wall. Interviewer: Okay. Alright Well um now uh does you had in the in the uh in the living room you had a what for warmth? You had a? 791: Fireplace. Brick chimney. Interviewer: Brick 791: Brick chimney Interviewer: Okay and then uh the stuff on the uh outside you know the floor of the fireplace you call it what? 791: Hearth. Interviewer: Hearth. Okay. Can you tell me about the fireplace and the other you know some of the stuff in the house you had. Well you had you put the wood on the 791: Dog irons you put they called a dog irons Interviewer: yeah. 791: Had two most of them was made in blacksmith's shops. Had to hold the head on over at the welding shop and all Auxiliary: #1 {X} # 791: #2 the different types of # manufacturing and uh they called 'em dog irons that were made in the blacksmith's shop and you'd throw your wood on it build a fire. Interviewer: What'd you what would you start the fire with? 791: They start with a little rich lighter splinters. Interviewer: Alright. 791: Get your oak wood to burn. Course at night well you have to be careful not to leave a piece of oak wood to work with burn in two and then roll out into the house and burn the house. {NW} Most people would uh set something that was not flammable to where if it did roll out it would catch. A lot a lot of people use a screen a mesh screen to put around the hearth to keep the chunks of wood from rolling out into the floor. Interviewer: Tha-that uh big thing you call that a what? That you put on the fire if you got you wanna 791: Oak wood. Interviewer: yeah a big what a big {X} big. 791: Jus-just a block of old wood. Interviewer: Okay. 791: Block of old wood. Interviewer: Call that log or 791: Log or block of old wood. Interviewer: Okay. {NS} uh now um that stuff you get on your face when it when it uh when the fire going through the chimney or when your having it cleaned out? 791: {X} Interviewer: What's that? {NW} 791: But you brush those'll never have to clean one out it it would burn clean on a chimney. uh some people would try heating with uh cast iron heaters or canned heaters. Well if they used a lot of rich lighters Interviewer: yeah? 791: well they soot up but as long as your just used a small amount rich pine to start your fire why the oak wood would have a tendency to keep it burnt clean. Burn your chimney are you? uh Stove pipe I clean as long as you didn't use a lot of rich lighter. Interviewer: You didn't have uh any any stuff you need what to get rid of. 791: Ashes Interviewer: yeah. 791: You'd have to carry the ashes out almost every day winter time you'd burn lots of wood Interviewer: Uh-huh 791: carried ashes out. When spring the year was there well you have to cover the top of the chimney to keep the what they call chimney sweeps from building their nests in the chimney. Because the chimney sweeps are go coming in and building their nests while they break what soot was there well they break it loose and it fall down and and then when the cold weather was over well you covered the top of the chimney with this and then you'd also have a fire screen. It was nothing more then a frame with a either wall paper or some type of stuff art that you covered the fire place to keep the wind from blowing ashes or soot from out of the chimney back out into the living room. Interviewer: Okay. Now you had maybe something up over the fireplace where you kept your clock or something. 791: A mantel board. Interviewer: Mantel board? 791: Mantel. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. Um The ashes were usually what color they were kinda? 791: Whitish gray. Interviewer: White okay. What about uh the stuff you had in the um the end of uh house where you kept things and uh your you know your uh 791: Well you had the uh Interviewer: What sort of a 791: You had the uh {D: woven} closet on the cook stove on the wood to cook stove like you had a {D: woven} closet which was up over the cook stove. With doors on it and food that wouldn't spoil easy. While after cooked meal well you just had it up in the uh {D:woven} closet and no time {X} couldn't get to it. and uh most of the stoves a lot of the stoves had uh a water warmer on the side of it next to the fire box before you put uh filled it water warmer with water and uh heat from wood with it to keep the water warm for dish washing or bathing. and uh you had then a safe that was fixed to what it uh most people had little uh star shaped deals or uh diamond shaped uh cut out in the doors. Interviewer: yeah. 791: with screen over it to where it uh no kind of insects could into the middle of it put it in the safe. Interviewer: yeah really? 791: You would uh at the same time it would let air in and uh no insects could get get in. Interviewer: Huh 791: If you cut out a diamond shape or a square and tight screen over it and then set food in it and be safe. Interviewer: Hmm. What about the kind of other pieces of uh or uh did you have any other types of furniture? 791: Well you had a large uh dining table uh our particular dining table well uh my father uh cut the cherry and red cherry and had it uh sawed and plained it I believe or dressed it himself and he built the table. It was a large one {X} Interviewer: Cherry tree? 791: Cherry tree. Interviewer: Really? 791: Yes sir. And uh Interviewer: Okay now uh now you might have a something you keep your clothes in it had the they'd always have drawers in it what what was that? 791: A chest of drawers but Interviewer: chest of drawers? 791: but uh that was in later years most of it was trunks. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 791: They had the old metal trunks that they {NS} put clothes in and and then they had what's called a chifforobe. Before the chest drawers they had the chifforobe. Interviewer: Okay. What is a chifforobe? 791: It was a tall usually about seven foot high and had a a lot of them had a mirror on one side with a storage overhead across the top a place to hang clothes on hangers and then a few drawers underneath. A place for the men's hat or the lady's hat and then usually a drawer across the bottom. Interviewer: Okay. So did you have kind of a long piece of furniture like that? Did you? 791: No sir it was usually uh up until later years why it was a just rocker chairs or straight chairs. Interviewer: Okay. 791: There's an old saying go most children why they learn walk on a straight chair because they would turn the straight chair as you probably saw 'em why just nothing but plain straight chair most of 'em made out of hickory wood uh cow hide at the bottom and most little fellers back them days would start learning to pull up while he turned the chair over to start with Interviewer: Yeah. 791: then he'd push the chair on its back and hold to it and push it in front of him and that's the reason if you go around a lot of the old timing places now you can still find chairs with the wooden backs and the back of the two back legs wore off because children would push them around on the floor learning to walk. Interviewer: {NW} You call that now a what? 791: That would be a a divan Interviewer: Divan? 791: Divan Interviewer: Okay. Alright. uh Any other names for it that you know 791: Couch. Interviewer: Okay uh yeah they have those maybe in the in the what? 791: They probably have them in the more modern homes. Interviewer: Well 791: And in later years Interviewer: yeah. Did you have a room where your mother wouldn't let you go in usually or you only use that for visitations? 791: No sir we had free free access to all the rooms. Interviewer: Okay. What about uh what about um the parts of the house uh did you have what was what'd you call the room where you did most of your most of the you know family business in or stay in most the time or? 791: Well the livin-living room is where Interviewer: {NW} 791: livin-living room was uh Interviewer: Your family likes to eat huh? 791: yeah. Liv-living room uh we we that's where everybody ga-gather up in the evenings uh when it begin to get dark. {X} A lot of time I-I supper for parch peanuts or pop pop corn and sit around and talk 'til bed time. Interviewer: yeah. Okay now you uh the tables, chairs and all this is called what the? 791: Dining table and chairs. Interviewer: Well you might all this you call the what? The fur or the 791: uh you mean in the dining area? Dining Interviewer: Well just anything in any room you'd say you call this the Furn 791: Furniture. Interviewer: Okay alright alright. Um did you have now those things hanging down the window what do you call them? 791: Uh shades Interviewer: Shades? Okay. Um 791: So you had shades back those days and uh a lot of people had curtains. We had curtains. Lot of 'em only had the shades. Interviewer: yeah. yeah. Some people some folks didn't even have uh some folks just had wooden uh 791: A lot of people had wooden shutters wooden. A lot of 'em had uh log homes with uh wooden shutters. Interviewer: Must've been wet in 791: With the cracks filled with clay. Interviewer: yeah. yeah. 791: Cold out. Interviewer: uh Now um did you have a little room off the bedroom which you'd hang your clothes in? 791: No sir it was usually a little closet that was built in one corner of the bedroom. Interviewer: Okay. 791: It wasn't like it is this day in time with hall closets and they just be one little uh deal. Squared off in the corner you'd hang your clothes and Interviewer: uh you well some folks used to have a did you have like a piece of furniture that was uh that was you know when you had hun- hung your stuff? Was that the chifforobe you called it? 791: That was chifforobe. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. uh You know was a wardrobe was? Di-did folks ever use those? 791: Yes sir. They used those too. That was that was it was on the same principle of as the chifforobe. Interviewer: I see. Okay. Now did you have a room at the top of the house that? 791: No sir we didn't have a room at the top of the house. It was uh There was attic but there was no room. Interviewer: Oh okay. Well that's what I was talking about. 791: yeah th-there was there was no attic I mean no rooms livable. Interviewer: Okay. uh Now you say did most did folks some folks have a kitchen of the house uh or 791: A lot a lot of families had their kitchen off set from the old home. Well they'd have a walkway from the main house to the kitchen. Interviewer: Okay. 791: A covered walkway. Interviewer: And you call that the the what? Did you did it did it have a name for it uh? 791: Nothing just a walkway. Interviewer: Okay. Now if you had a back porch or something like that what'd what'd you call that? The? 791: It would be back porch Interviewer: Back porch. 791: Back porch some of them be a straight back porch some back porches would be an L-shape. In order to square up the house, well they they might have a room that extended on past the last two rooms and then they uh just squared up where they put small back porch to square up the large house. Interviewer: Okay. What um they wouldn't have a uh maybe a stoop? Wha-what did you would you ever did you ever hear the word stoop used for something? #1 that stoop? Okay. # 791: #2 No sir I don't I don't believe # Interviewer: Alright. Now {X} worthless things you about to throw away where'd you keep those? What c-can you tell me about the buildings the rest of the buildings on the you had you know at the place that sort of thing? 791: Well uh we had uh {D: Ragler's} uh chicken house in fact we had chicken house that uh was screened in. World War One I presume it was there was a colonel {X} {B} built it his home. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And {NW} he built a chicken house before my dad bought the place and he even had screened windows of {D: slotch} to where the chickens could get out and he could shut them up from the vermins. And we had a large uh two story barn with a hay loft over head and stables underneath for keeping the livestock. About the uh that's about just the way that we usually had a potato {D: kiln} where we kept our sweet potatoes. Interviewer: yeah. 791: Potato bank. Interviewer: yeah somebody told me you know what was a potato bank? Tell me about can you tell me about what those were? 791: Well my father built one why he just dug in dug down in the ground approximately a foot deep and about four feet wide and about twelve fifteen feet long. Interviewer: Okay. 791: And then put {X} the side of the bank. He caved it off with heavy timbers. And built roof over it and in the fall of the year when you go baking your sweet potatoes why you would you had one side of it that you would lift off at the end of our roof. You'd just lay it over out of the way. You'd start at the rear of the you'd start at the rear of the potato bump and start dumping your potatoes in and work to the front. And you would have straw on the bottom an-and when you got all the potatoes in before you put the top back on why you'd gather straw and cover the potatoes to prevent them from freezing. Then you'd lift the side roof back on and then you had a door large enough to get in it at the front and you'd that's where you'd go in to get your potatoes to use for the winter. Interviewer: Huh. 791: And they would usually keep good there. Interviewer: Now did you have a lot of old stuff that you you know kept or on a farm people never throw anythings away. 791: Well uh not not all that much because uh back those days they wouldn't not put your things that was not usable as of this day in time. In other words, most of the things back them days was strictly toola to work will ya and uh you didn't have uh fifteen or twenty plastic buckets and metal buckets uh around uh Interviewer: Didn't have a lot of 791: You didn't have a lot of that. You had a well bucket and a water bucket and a dipper and a tea kettle and maybe a foot tub or two and that was about the limit of it. But uh they wasn't near as much junk back those days as there as there is this day in time. Interviewer: yeah. 791: Cause the-there were not many manufactures of all the different kinds of containers and things. Interviewer: Did you have a place where you stored your tools or uh 791: We-we had a wagon shed that we kept the wagon under and that's where you kept the horse harness saddle bags blankets and kept all your tools Interviewer: Okay. 791: Those things go to my father and I guess I pretty well followed after him. Well my father always made the remark that uh he could go in if no one bothered it well he could go to the darkest night there was and put his hands on any tool or equipment that he had without a light and he could do it too. Interviewer: Kept it clean how? 791: He kept everything where he knows where it's at. He could put his hand on it without a light. Interviewer: Now uh how how would you get from the first floor to the second floor on in a regular house? You'd use what the? 791: Stairway. Interviewer: Stairway? 791: Stairway Interviewer: What any difference inside and out? Does it have 791: No sir they the same be the same thing be either inside stairway or outside. Most of 'em was inside where they wouldn't wouldn't rock. Interviewer: Did uh did um let's see Pat can you tell me about the work woman had to do on the farm uh or woman had to do you know 791: Well they they cook prepared stuff to can. Interviewer: On Monday and Tuesday they'd usually do their? 791: Probably they'd do their washing on Monday or Tuesday. Interviewer: Okay. Te-tell me about how to do that. Ca-can you remember? 791: My dad had the old timing washtubs and a rub board. and uh I saw my mother do it a million times. She'd wash put have the wash pot with uh full of water and she'd put her clothes on and put add the uh soap there wasn't detergent and all of these modern {NW} things it was uh usually lye soap made out of hog lard or waste lard and lye. Um she would use the lye soap and borrow the clothes and then rub 'em and then on a rub board and rinse 'em. Do about two or three washes. And the biggest part of this was did it out of the spring it was down under the hill because it was easy it was easier easier to dip water from the spring than it was to draw water from the well. Interviewer: I see. 791: So she had to set up uh place to for her wash tubs and there was a large rich lighted stump right by the spring. And when you would wanna drink water well you didn't run to the faucet or to the ice box refrigerator to get water. There was usually a gourd dipper made out of a gourd hanging on the spring and you'd go down to the {NS} get you a drink of water out of the gourd sit on the stump while you cooled a little. Interviewer: {NW} Oh my goodness Oh now she'd carry the clothes down to the spring in a in a maybe a? 791: Usually in a sheet. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 791: Bring a sheet out put all of her family wash on the sheet tie 'em up in a knot carry 'em to the spring and when she was finished well she'd put them in a tub and carry them to the line and hang 'em. And of course iron time came. Well she'd iron all the clothes need to be ironed with an old wooden iron that uh you had on a wood cook stove. You'd heat the iron on the wood cook stove. Interviewer: Now the back yard you had to kept it keep it? 791: It was kept clean mostly usually those days well you'd let grass grow in the yard and keep it mowed. You kept it hoed Interviewer: That's what I hear. 791: and swept with a yard brush. It had to be spotless. Interviewer: Really? Where would you keep that broom usually up? 791: Usually on the end of the porch. Interviewer: I see. Okay. um Behind the door ever or back of the door? Would you say? 791: No sir not the yard broom. Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 791: #2 Cause the # broom was made out of dogwood uh scraps. You would take the yard broom you'd build it out of cut some really young tender dogwood several of them and uh let 'em dry and strip the leaves off of 'em and tie 'em with a string tie a bundle of 'em and that's the way you'd make a yard broom. {NW} {NW} Interviewer: Excuse me. So what'd you call a part of the um up on the uh covers the house that's the? 791: Roof. Interviewer: Well uh yeah um 791: Board? Board roof. Interviewer: Did you have a place on the roof where you uh you know where they'd carry the water off from the edge of the house? uh 791: No sir back uh we did uh just the water poured off the edges. A lot of people where water was a scarcity well a lot of people would have a a gutter trough that would run to a cistern. Either above ground cistern or a under ground cistern. And your underground cistern was no more than a dug well except it was huge in diameter and pretty deep to where it would store up a lot of water for the dry months. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 791: Fill each cisterns in the rain period and use that water then when there wasn't any left. Interviewer: I see. 791: We-we always was blessed with plenty of water spring and well water shallow right. Easy. Interviewer: How yeah okay. uh Now if you have a house the part where maybe two roofs come together you call that the what? 791: Valley. Interviewer: The valley? Okay. Alright. um Did you have a place where you store your wood? Tell me about what you had to do about getting wood in for the fire and that. 791: W-we usually in the late fall of the year well we'd uh {X} cut the saw and the wagon and ax and saw and go and cut the fire wood and haul it for several days and cut six or eight cords and stack it up where it would be easy access to the fireplace. For you it would be outside of the yard. Use a hard wheel wheel bar to bring the wood to the porch. And then Interviewer: Then you'd bring your 791: Every evening why you'd bring the wood in and stack it up high on the porch and then you'd have wood for the next morning or 'til the next evening. Interviewer: Okay. Your mother might tell you to go get a? 791: A load of wood, an arm load of wood Interviewer: A load of wood okay. Alright. um Now uh did you have did you have an outdoor toilet? 791: Yes sir. Interviewer: Okay. What uh what did you call that? The? 791: Call it call it the outdoor toilet. Interviewer: Okay. Folks have any funny names for it or joking names for it uh? 791: uh Interviewer: If you remember 791: Not that I remember {X} uh Interviewer: Pretty or 791: No. No-not that I remember {X} Interviewer: Okay. Just call it maybe the outhouse? 791: Outhouse. A lot of people called it the outhouse. Interviewer: Okay. Uh what now other parts of the places in barn. Where would you uh I mean places on the farm where would you keep your hay or or you store your hay at? 791: In the upstairs up over the uh where you kept your livestock and then you had a hay rack that well which was more than a hole cut in the floor of the hay barn. And you had your hay trough and right built underneath this hole {X} you didn't have to bring the hay back down the ladder. You'd just climbed the ladder and put however much hay you wanted to down through this hole opening into the long hay racks. Interviewer: In-into the trough? 791: Into the trough and the racks. Interviewer: Huh 791: And that way you didn't have to bring the hay down the ladder or throw it out on the ground in the dirt. And you'd just feed it right through uh feeding lots of hay well you'd just pile a bunch of it on top of it and it'd stop with it well it would keep falling and working it's way down. Interviewer: I see. Okay now the barn you used for uh so the barn you used for for what what all you know what other purposes? 791: Yo-you had stables that you kept your horses in. Interviewer: Okay. 791: And stables you kept cows in. And then you had an open shed where cows could stay under it on the rows. Uh this particular barn had uh my father why it was made out of twelve by twelve the foundation. Interviewer: Oo 791: Made out of twelve by twelve rich lighter. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And each joint was there was a hole chiseled with a wooden {X} wood chisel and a hammer and a oblong round it was chiseled all the way through and then the end of the next twelve by twelve it was going to go cross ways would be tapered in this oblong and put through this hole. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And then a hole drilled all the way through all three of 'em with about an inch and a half or two inch rich lightered uh plug that went through that to hold it together. In other words it wasn't it wasn't nails wouldn't have held it Interviewer: mm-hmm 791: and that large of timbers so they drilled a hole and put this large plug through it. And that's the way it was built. Interviewer: Good work. 791: It was some good work. Interviewer: huh Now you stored corn in a? 791: Corn crib usually made out of logs. Some people split them some people used little small round ones. Interviewer: Okay. 791: Our particular corn crib well it was split. It was made out of split logs. It was split wide open. Interviewer: Uh this did you have a place where uh you might store uh grain of some sort any other sort of grain uh? 791: No sir they uh back those days well you didn't have uh the bins and different types of grains about all you had was corn and maybe {D: sorghum} heads or dried peas and you'd usually put them in the barn or in a place where they would cure without rotting. You'd have the peas and sorghum heads and corn is about the only free and peanuts. You'd actually you would have your {D: stalks} peanuts {NW} cut the long wooden stakes and maybe your two little short planks about twelve by fourteen inches from the end and you would drive the stake in the ground. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And then you would gather the you'd pull you peanuts and when they dried enough that the dirt would shake off why you'd carry the peanuts vines to the stake and just catch a small amount of limbs on one side and leave all the other limbs on the other side. And you'd take a small amount of limb and wrap it around the stake and you'd keep going all the way around 'til that was in order to make it shed water. Well the water would go in and uh that way when the peanuts cured why this uh you could just lean the stalk over lean the shock over and carry it to the barn. Interviewer: yeah. Huh Pretty good. And that's how you dried 'em? 791: That's how you dried 'em. Air can circulate obvious because those two little wooden planks they would cross the end would be hold peanuts off the ground for air would circulate underneath the shaft. Interviewer: Hmm. uh now up the part part of the barn where you kept put hay you call the? 791: The hay loft. Interviewer: Okay. Did you ever see um did you ever have a time where you grew too much hay you couldn't keep it all in the barn? 791: No sir I don't believe. You-you'd usually make room for for the hay. Interviewer: yeah. Well did you ever see it out in the field uh in a what? What did uh what would they keep it in? 791: Hay stack yo-yo-you some people stacked it out here in the field. My father never did he always put it in the hay loft. But a lot of people made a hay shock they'd drive up the state then go to putting the hay around the shock and as the shock build up well they'd take a pitch fork and keep raking the hay. So the outside from the stake to the outside which would make the grass lay straight and would have a tendency to do the same as the peanuts. It would make it shed water. Interviewer: I see. 791: To keep it from rotting. Interviewer: So a shock was a what? 791: Ha-hay stack or a hay shock. Interviewer: Alright when you tell me about uh the cutting hay and that sort of thing. Do you remember doing it to the? 791: We had the old uh horse-drawn hay cutter mowing machine. Horse-drawn hay mower and then you had a horse-drawn rake that would you would rake the hay Interviewer: Into 791: into a uh windrow and that ev-every time you'd come to that certain spot you'd trip your hay rake and it would dump the hay. And you'd rake it up in piles with this horse drawn dump rake and then you'd have Interviewer: These piles you call the what? The windrow? 791: Windrow. And then you'd had uh your two horse wagon. With a bed on it now my father did and he did it a little different to a lot of the farmers. But my father always had this two horse wagon and he'd take me with two large uh pieces of heavy timber for the front and for the rear and made a cross out of 'em. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And put a large bolt through it well this he would put one of these in the front and one in the rear and let it uh one end with two by four stick down in one corner of the front of the bed and the other end with two by four sticking in the other end. When you put this on the front and rear and then laid about three or four planks. Well that would throw your hay you could put hay all two or three feet out past the wheels on each side you just make what they call a a hay frame. And that way you could pile a lot of loose hay on this hay frame and head to the barn. I on the same principal that load of hay you see in the picture there it looks like you might have hay frames on that wagon. Interviewer: yeah. That's a pretty picture. uh Now did you ever see hay covered maybe in sort of a with four poles it had a sliding roof a tin roof something like that on it? #1 Did you ever see # 791: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 You ever saw that? # 791: #2 I never saw that # Interviewer: Okay. um now did you have a place where you special place where you'd milk the cows? Outside maybe a? 791: You-you'd just usually milk them in the lot. Interviewer: Okay. 791: You'd have usually back those days you kept the milk cows calf up every day and uh the cow would run outside Interviewer: Uh-huh 791: and then when the cow came up out that evening or when some of the children had to go drive her up well you'd the mother would milk the calves and just let the milk guy in. Rope off the calf and cow would stand there most back then they well there wasn't all this new types of feed you-you'd feed 'em peanut vines and uh nubbins of corn and Interviewer: And you just Okay tell me about what you did you-you'd once you got the milk what would you carry it in? What I mean what would milk 'em in a? 791: You'd milk them in a milk pail and you'd car-carry the milk to the house and strain it. Through what they call a strainer. Back those days why it was more nothing more then uh a thin flour sack. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 791: You'd strain the milk and you'd strain it into either gallon buckets or glass jars. And there wa-was no refrigeration. There was no ice boxes. So you didn't run to the refrigerator or the ice box for your milk. you wanted milk to be cool and wanted it to be sweet for supper that night if you milked in the morning well you'd take this milk and put it in the container that you could seal water tight and you would either set it in the spring or let it down in the well on a rope. And leave it there 'til it's time to use it. Interviewer: Okay what'd you call it when you maybe sat in the a place where well where did you have a place where uh water would run by milk excuse me and keep it cool? 791: Well a lot of times we'd leave it at the spring while we had we had a place that uh we'd let the had more it was nothing more then a a little small pond below the spring that was fenced in for no stop could get to it and you'd set the milk in this little pond and water would it was within a foot of the spring and water would flow out the spring and run right through the milk. Interviewer: Okay. What would you call that dairy what was dairy a? 791: Well a dairy was a place where that uh they milk several milk cattle. Interviewer: Okay. Alright. um A place where you might keep your potatoes or something like that? 791: Well that'd be potato {D: kill} That-that's Interviewer: #1 Okay. # 791: #2 What I'd # Interviewer: Alright okay. um now uh Di-did you keep where do you keep your hogs usually at? 791: Well back those days the hogs run outside and you-you'd leave them outside. They'd eat grass, berries things through the summer you'd feed them a little stuff all through the summer. And then in the fall in the fall of the year why you would uh have your boars or the ones you wanted to butcher you'd bring them in and call 'em up and you'd after you'd gathered you crop well there's always waste corn, velvet beans sweet potatoes. Well then you would uh turn your hogs that you was going to butcher for your meat uh you would turn them in to the field and let 'em get as fat as they would get until they had left the field out. Then you would put 'em in a pen Interviewer: yeah. 791: And put the finishing touch to it with corn. Interviewer: {NW} Bet those boys were fat by the time you got 'em ready you know. 791: You-you made you'd put up the only meat. Interviewer: yeah. yeah I'm-I wanna get ready to ask you about that. Now a place where around the barn that you left all the animals just kind of get out what would you call that? 791: A lot. Interviewer: A lot? 791: A lot or a run around pen. Interviewer: It was fenced in? 791: Fenced in Interviewer: Okay. And then you decide you let 'em out what in the? Where would you let them out to graze? 791: Out-outside back those days there wasn't too many pastures. I mean we didn't have a pasture. It was open range there was no stop laws anywhere Interviewer: yeah. 791: in this area. It was all open range. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And uh Interviewer: A pasture was was that usually fenced? 791: It-it was fenced. A pasture would be fenced. Usually about two or three strands of barbed wire all that was necessary to keep stock in the pasture. Interviewer: What what type of fences did you have? 791: Yo-you had the same uh fences as you have now. Barbed wire and net wire Interviewer: Mm-kay 791: You had barbed wire fences and net wire most people had it uh if they were farming well they had to have net wire with barbed wire because back those days everybody had a hogs. It wasn't just one or two it was everyone had hogs and everyone had 'em marked everyone used uh their own hogs and usually the other people's hogs. Used the other man's mark. Interviewer: Okay talking about barb you said you had barbed wire fence. Did you ever have a type of fence made out of wood kind of a 791: Rail fence? Interviewer: yeah. 791: yeah sure had rail fences. Interviewer: Mm-kay any different types of rail fences or? Well you had you had rail fences that was in a zig-zag they was a zig-zag you know you had to zig-zag the rail fence in order to stack 'em. In other words you'd have have 'em going in uh a zig-zag line in order to stack the ends of the rails for the next uh section of fence. Then you had uh a lattice fence. What they called a lattice fence. Well it was no more than take a oak usually white oak and cut it in about three and a half or four foot lengths Uh-huh 791: and then split those to where that they was as wide as you could get 'em. But no thicker then about three quarters of an inch. Well the way you'd build this lattice fence you would take two long wires out of a nice wire. And tie 'em to the top of the post at the height of your lattice or top of your lattice fence was going to be. You tie 'em to then you take two at the bottom tie two of 'em then you'd take one lattice stand it up and put it next to your post. And you would cross your wires one time on your two bottom wires and your two top wires. And you put another lattice in and then cross each one of your two wires you tie it at the bottom again and put another one and you'd do this 'til you come to the next post. And you'd staple the top and the bottom wire to the post just like you did to it at the beginning. And you build a lattice fence and then if you wanted to you could put a barbed wire over the top of it. Then you had the picket fence you had a bottom latch and a top latch which is similar to the uh lattice fence the only difference you're nailing the pickets to a bottom lad and a top lad whereas you using wire for a lattice fence. You lacing it in. But the picket fence you'd have a bottom lad and a top lad and you would ride your pickets out of rich lightered or some people used cypress some people use oak. And they'd taper the sharpened ends of the pickets before the livestock wouldn't try to reach over and bite the flowers or plants that the {D: half} wife would have growing in the yard up next to the fence. Interviewer: yeah uh did you okay Did you have a type of thing extension you might build over top rail of a rail fence? uh Di- wo- would that it keep the fence high enough to uh hold out hold in the big animals you know? Uh rather then you know using more wood to build it up higher? 791: #1 uh no # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 791: No sir th-the only way we ever did we we had the rail fence and usually about eight or nine rails high and then if they were something that wanted to push on it or something well you take one strand of barbed wire and run it on the outside or the inside or both uh about two and a half feet from the ground and that would keep them from getting up to it you'd have these points where your rails the ends of the rails crossed. Interviewer: yeah. 791: And that way while that livestock couldn't get up in the inside part of the rail fence to push the rails. Interviewer: Oh okay. Now did you ever raise cotton? 791: Yes sir. Raised a little cotton not a whole lot. Interviewer: Tell me about the work you did. 791: Well they they would they to me it was all work uh Interviewer: yeah. 791: I-I never after I married and got a family well I never grow but one bale of cotton and I said that was it. Interviewer: {NW} 791: Because I had to pick cotton whenever I was a child growing up and my dad my daddy planted cotton not in no big way but he planted uh a little cotton. and Imma tell you too much work in that cotton to suit me. Interviewer: You had to uh do uh you had to what? uh 791: You had to chop it Interviewer: Chop it 791: Then they was able to use nothing more than fitted in cotton you'd chop at least two or three stalks so far apart Interviewer: Okay. Now uh you might say cotton was grown in a what? In a? Cotton? 791: Patch? Interviewer: yeah. Okay. 791: #1 yeah you'd have a cotton patch. # Auxiliary: #2 {NW} # Interviewer: Okay what would you wha-what kind of things would you grow in a patch maybe? 791: Well you'd have a #1 sugarcane patch. # Auxiliary: #2 {NS} # 791: #1 You'd have a sugarcane patch. # Auxiliary: #2 {NS} # Interviewer: Sugar-sugarcane patch? 791: You'd have a sugarcane patch. Maybe a peanut patch. It'd be a small area for each you'd have different little patches. Interviewer: I see. Okay. 791: We'd have a peanut patch, a sugarcane patch, course you had your big field that you had your cotton and your corn in and then you'd have a garden. Interviewer: yeah. Garden okay. If you wanted to start a hen lay what'd you wh-what'd you put in her nest sometimes uh to fool her or something like that? 791: Well eh most times eh you didn't start 'em uh laying that way or my experience was uh you more or less they was chicken snakes and things like that until you would put a false egg in the hen nest. Interviewer: yeah. 791: If there was a few you could leave a false egg there and uh in fact the {X} uh chicken snake they had been the old-timey glass white uh door knob that you used years ago on the door and why you'd put that white glass door knob in there and the chicken snakes would swallow 'em they'd been found with uh stumps the chicken snakes swallow the egg and then wraps himself around a object and crushes the egg. Well the chicken snake would swallow this glass door knob and he would end up dying because he couldn't crush the door knob. Interviewer: yeah. Somebody else told me that. And you call that egg a what? A chi-? 791: Uh Interviewer: You ever hear folks call it a china egg? 791: China egg. Interviewer: Okay alright. um now your but your china was what? That was your? Was that your? 791: Your china was your Interviewer: What you'd eat off of. 791: Right you Interviewer: Okay. Now you told me what sort of uh things did you have to carry water in. A bucket? 791: A bucket. Interviewer: yeah okay. And yo-you 791: You had a dipper. They Interviewer: Dipper made out of? 791: Aluminum there's a general rule that uh at the house course down at the spring why you'd have the old-timey dipper made out of a gourd you'd take a gourd and make a dipper out of it. Interviewer: Okay. Uh did you you know what kind of bucket might you keep in your kitchen to throw scraps in for the pigs? 791: That was usual that was called a slop bucket usually kept it outside. Close to the house uh close to the kitchen but it was kept outside. Interviewer: Okay. What'd you fry eggs in? 791: A skillet. Interviewer: Your mother would fry 791: fry skillet and bacon lard. Interviewer: Okay. Did she ever have a did she ever cook on the fire did you ever see? 791: Uh very very {D: sullen uh} if she had something she was going to cook a long period of time and it was in the winter time well she would cook uh beans and things dry beans stuff that had to be uh cooked long period of time why she would uh set an iron pot in the coals of the fireplace. Interviewer: You might call that pot a what? A k- uh? 791: It was just a huge iron pot with legs on it and some people baked their sweet potatoes on top of this large pot. They'd have something cooking in the pot and they'd lay the sweet potatoes on top of the lid. And some people even bake their sweet potatoes in the ashes. direct Interviewer: yeah. 791: Yep. Interviewer: yeah I yeah I heard that folks doing stuff like that D-did you ever um Did you now you call that iron pot a what a kettle? Did you ever have a kettle of any sort? 791: Well you had a iron kettle Interviewer: I see. 791: You had a iron kettle with a handle and a spout on it that you with and a lid that would slide back and forth And you would uh set there and set it direct on the fire. and uh heat your water. Okay and