Interviewer: {NS} Yeah 847: And He'll tell people now you know like we used to not get along two hours together you know like uh Uh it was just Something that I he didn't see eye to eye with me and I didn't see eye to eye with him and we would end up Having you know a big argument about something And it would literally be nothing Interviewer: Yeah 847: Uh Interviewer: Whatever 847: Whatever yeah as long as And it wouldn't be me I wouldn't create the problem You know It was just the fact that he Somehow I never felt like I thought was smarter than he was Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: So finally I told him one day you know you have a lot of good advice to give me and I'll listen to you And he's finally started imparting with some good advice Uh and The times of my being away from Dallas And growing up Made him much more street wise than me Interviewer: Hmm that's interesting 847: Uh like I don't Interviewer: You grew up in this little town 847: Yeah like uh You know down the street was the pool hall there was a lot of slick things going in the city Interviewer: Yeah 847: And even now you know like first time I went to San Francisco was Six years ago {NW} And he was cautioning me said don't you be no fool now like You're really talking to a country bumpkin You know and Interviewer: Right 847: Great big city of San Francisco you know Interviewer: {NW} 847: He says I say what do you mean see you know I {X} You and I really have I still have some country ways about me about I'll leave my Bag Uh my jewelry And you know I might walk outta here and leave it on the desk and people say well you shouldn't do that I said why it's my desk {NS} They said well man you know you'll end up somebody will steal it And I sometimes I have to go back and check my door To make sure that I've locked the doors because I grew up in an environment of not locking doors And I checked you know and taking everybody at their word and I still do Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh that when people come to you they're honest And sincere And in my and and they're not rascals or scoundrels Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh but And it's taken me a long time To start recognizing that there are a lot of rascals and scoundrels #1 Around # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: He's had to protect me in a lot of instances you know But uh Just My assuming things about people Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Um I went to high school here but {NS} Man like I said when I finished high school I went immediately into service Right out of service into school and you know like I just lost a lot things about how really Terrible city people can be sometimes Interviewer: Mm 847: And uh You know he looks out for me in those in that respect {NS} like Interviewer: In a way it's good in a way it's bad I suppose {X} 847: Well I think it's good it it's good and bad Interviewer: Yeah 847: Uh the good part Is that uh I was able to see what the city was To be associated with it And growing up And not being totally engulfed into the Ghetto scene Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Um And then my environment with my aunt was always an environment of education {NW} So then that kept me Interviewer: Yeah 847: It kept me afloat and aloof too For things that really go on Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh I remember when I was about twenty years old Uh This fellow introduced me to some people said this is {B} I want you to meet a man who's never been to jail Interviewer: {NW} 847: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: That was a big thing to come out of him {NW} Interviewer: {NW} 847: I will ne- You know that's something it's like it's in an indelible print in my mind Interviewer: Yeah 847: Uh you know I've been arrested on traffic violations and Um Interviewer: No 847: Being in the wrong place at the wrong time that sort of thing But that was really interesting to me you know I've never been to jail for something real big you know And he said Interviewer: Isn't that #1 Interesting # 847: #2 {X} # {X} #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Couldn't say it # I can tell 847: Because over in that neighborhood in East Dallas right over by Fair Park Interviewer: #1 Is that where you lived # 847: #2 {D: House ground} # Yup I lived there Grew up on {B} Interviewer: Yeah 847: {B} In that area around there And {NS} That you know everybody had to go to jail you know You just haven't grown up until you go into juvenile home and then jail Interviewer: Well it's just a matter of time 847: It's just a matter of time you know like in a Interviewer: {NW} 847: He was really proud of me his friend's never been to jail #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # That's so funny 847: {NW} But Interviewer: Where did you go to school you said you went to school when you got out of the service 847: To the University of Maryland Interviewer: How come you went there so far away 847: Uh Had a lot of friends living in Michigan I met people that uh when I was in Detroit {X} Well I when I was in Detroit when I was when I was in service And I was in Germany Uh Most of my friends were from Michigan And as a matter of fact no one really believed that I was from Texas Um Interviewer: How come 847: I didn't have that southern {D: Tracking} About me Um Always talked very quickly You know Um and And I think my speech is more refined I have a southern black Interviewer: Yeah that's it 847: Youngster Going into school you know like Fresh out of high school Going into service Um And Like people in New York kids grow up in New York Um somewhat a little bit Faster than kids that grow up in Waco and Dallas And you know kids in Dallas a little bit faster than the ones in Waco Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know there's that city traffic and And Somehow or another I was Just a little bit Advanced struggling this you know like uh they just didn't want to believe that I was from Texas Interviewer: That's interesting 847: Um {NS} I never really talked With a slow drawl I My my drawl has gotten Worse a whole lot at that And that's primarily because of my association Interviewer: Yeah 847: Um Interviewer: Yeah saying that this will be {X} 847: Well that's like on the telephone I don't sound very black I sound more like More or less like Uh maybe a white farmer around here {NS} Interviewer: Yeah you do to me too #1 Or # 847: #2 Yeah # Interviewer: #1 Or a Southerner you know # 847: #2 You know people # Yeah you know I don't sound like a black southerner Interviewer: #1 Uh-uh # 847: #2 on the phone and # You know and I and I fool a lot of people you know I don't Just not anything intentional {NW} I remember when I was recruiting jobs When I was a job development coordinator And there's this company blue diamond Which uh supplies construction materials Off uh You know uh contractors when I was there And I had this beautiful rapport with the Personnel manager And the uh foreman over there at uh blue diamond but they hadn't ever seen me {NW} I always talked to them on the phone {NW} So when we came up with all this business about affirmative action Well blue diamond happened to have some federal contracts because it's a national company {NS} And I call this fellow {D: with me} I was talking to him {NS} And he said you know I got to have me some blacks over here said I don't have any you know And he said why don't you try and hire me some Well that's the easiest thing for me to do because that's all I was seeing over in south Dallas {NW} And Martin Luther King center which was crossroads then {D: only blacks who came in there} And I did a super job for him so one day I call him and {NW} He said hey Cal I said how you doing he said uh {NS} He said I need me some more people he said but let me tell you what {NW} Don't send me any more of them niggers you know what I'm talking about Interviewer: {NW} 847: I said yeah I know what you're #1 Talking about I see # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: Too many of them myself Interviewer: {NW} 847: You know I see them every day around here {NW} Interviewer: That's great 847: Finally one day he said when do you want to come over and have coffee with me And I showed up Interviewer: Oh that is 847: And Interviewer: So funny what did he do 847: He just I started laughing I made it easy for him Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: I said you didn't expect me did you Interviewer: {NW} 847: #1 He said my God # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: #1 He said you didn't even # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: Curse me out Interviewer: {NW} 847: I said no I said you know I said I understood what you were talking about {NW} And I said too much of anything ain't good for you you know {NW} It's just the fact that He needed to break down what was going on there And I have found like in working situations As an example here There is better office relation whereas since you have Black brown and white Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Only thing my office is Totally black {NW} And I probably get less production sometimes than what I would really need to get And less respect out of my all black environment in here Interviewer: Why do you think that is I mean why aren't these better at {X} 847: You keep people more honest number one Uh {NS} You very rarely find Uh black white and brown in an office And all three of them going to be doing something for you as a boss at the same time you can break them up you can create Uh {NS} Not confusion But you can divide You can divide Uh you you have people working Uh I find that white people understand work ethic ethics Better than blacks and browns You know white #1 People # Interviewer: #2 Puritan # Puritan 847: Yeah you know Interviewer: Work ethic 847: Yeah you know they understand that hey you know this is hustle and bustle if you don't make it You ain't going to make it here You know sometimes I find that blacks will use Uh It's all like an inherited thing No matter how hard I work I'm not going to get it any further Interviewer: No 847: You know But then that's a lie nowadays You know you can work hard And if you really work And do your work well and and you exceed And excel And if you excel and can exceed what others are doing {NS} You going to get ahead I don't care who you are {NW} But my people have to learn that it's hard work not short corners that's going to get what where you want to go {NS} Uh and it takes more than doing eight hours a day to get you where you want to go Uh if you go to a job and work eight hours and that's it {NW} You punch in eight and you leave at five you don't spend an extra minute there You don't come to work thirty minutes early not one day you want your coffee breaks right on time {NW} You want your lunch break right on time Interviewer: Yeah 847: Then you're not going to get ahead on that job It's the fellow that puts in a little bit of extra effort And gets ahead on the job {NW} And White people understand that We haven't understood it En masse Because then the opportunities to move ahead hasn't been there Interviewer: Yeah 847: But the opportunities are opening up you know this is what I try to get my people to see Interviewer: What do you see with women do you a see a difference in attitude between men and women 847: Yeah Interviewer: How so 847: Uh There seem to have always been some opportunities available for black women And unavailable to black men As an example {NW} The first company that {NS} Started hiring black women en masse and paying them a decent salary in Dallas {NW} Was Texas Instruments And this was right about nineteen uh Sixty You know between fifty-eight and sixty when it's really start Hiring black women And they hired them as assemblers Uh they worked on Various parts of the plant operation And the manufacturing and assembling operations The only jobs that black men could get out there were working in the cafeteria and porter jobs Interviewer: Is that right. 847: And then they always bought T-I's always had a super credit union Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Gathering up all these black women Several hundred of them back then you know Early years All of them driving new cars And here their husbands are on porter jobs {NW} That job broke up more homes than you can really imagine Interviewer: That is very interesting 847: Uh Then as it progressed Uh it was in the {NS} Late sixties Early seventies at southwestern bell Started opening up and hiring minority women There was no place for a man at southwestern bell there were no porter jobs They didn't have any black installers Uh Black line men that sort of thing truck drivers Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Maintenance Uh crews {NW} Only thing they did was work custodial work in the building I remember my mother telling me Oh when you get out of high school I sure hope you can get you a porter job at the gas company {NS} That was a good job Interviewer: That was the the ultimate 847: Yeah To work at the gas company And have a porter's job Well Then {X} TI opened up Um Southwestern bell In the mid sixties late sixties early seventies {NW} Western electric Built a plant here {NW} Uh then the affirmative action Plans for the insurance companies you saw them put in Uh People in the insurance companies with banks started opening up {NW} Uh only job my wife has ever had was Working in the bank Uh she uh Was head teller at one of the major banks downtown Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh That might have just happened in the last couple years they get to have tellers now But then I can remember when I have a lesser job And my wife had a nice little clean job That I noticed a difference in her attitude toward me You know we were very young you know {D: And then there was an attitudal difference} And uh {D: I've always been pretty sharp and I told her what that attitudal difference was} I said now let me tell you something I said now your opportunities seem to have been a little bit better than mine so far as you're getting a cleaner job {NW} I said well that doesn't make you being more than me as my wife and I said if you're making A million dollars a year {NW} You have to respect me as your husband And I think that might be the reason why you you find some black men come up with that {NW} Super macho attitude Interviewer: Yeah uh-huh 847: #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Overcompensation # 847: Yeah and it's overcompensation because There's a need or lack of {X} {NS} And Interviewer: That's very interesting 847: Like Today There are very few black men in this town With desk jobs working in a nice clean office environment And there's thousands of black women who are In nice clean office jobs {NW} And a good clean working #1 Environment # Interviewer: #2 Why do you think that is # 847: It's because of the industry in Dallas in particular Uh You have a bank and insurance uh uh Uh Electrical I mean drug electrical components and and computer Taking over software hardware market here Interviewer: Yeah 847: Now unless Males go in at the top level of these jobs {NW} On a professional highly skilled level Then you don't really get into the capital And But then the opportunities are made and once people get in {NW} Have training programs and that sort of thing that move Women up Um There are I know several girls that work at a telephone company Two or three of them I've gotten that for them That through references uh Working with uh civil rights programs and affirmative action so forth {NW} Opened up a lot of things with southwestern bell I think you remember when the telephone company was sued two years ago Um Nationally they were sued for the Discrimination discriminatory practices such as testing procedures and that sort of thing in the hiring practices of {NW} Minorities and women Well then that started opening things up too But uh as I look at the job market And and what has been available And it just hasn't been a whole lot available Uh so far as for black men to move up Into certain areas of work Um So customers would like to say this created a lot of problems And uh Interviewer: {X} 847: And particularly when {NW} The average Uh black male who is intelligent And i- Is at uh Academic training high institution {NW} Their wives or their women make just as much money as they're making Most of the time Because they usually they'll want to marry Someone with the same aspirations same education level and that sort of thing {NW} And uh They end up making a lot of concessions at home {X} Giving up Male dominance as a means of getting along with a partner who can assist them And sacri- That they sacrifice that just to get along You know Uh Wife is buying the car you'll be paying the house loan {NW} It always felt like maybe it's that You know American thing in me American machoism {NS} Is that the man is supposed to carry the biggest burden Of the responsibility But then this cannot be the case When men They're earning Capacity is about the same Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know what you do is you end up really splitting it {NW} You know so like when I look at the liberal movement {NW} of the White female Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Well hell you know the white woman has always had that sort of freedom and liberty at home because she's had {NW} Responsibilities that her white counterpart Hasn't really ever had Interviewer: Mm-hmm that's true #1 {D: You know in Burbia} # 847: #2 You know # Interviewer: {X} Where I live and where I grew up uh there's almost a class difference between the men and the women because the men make three times #1 As much as we # 847: #2 Ah yeah # Interviewer: Could ever make 847: And they act like it too Interviewer: You bet {NW} Oh they love no believe me 847: You see you cat- But now you got You catch some brother coming home with that attitude Interviewer: {NW} 847: He's just He might Interviewer: {D: He's mighty right} 847: #1 If if if he's a # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: Cop #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: This is Interviewer: {D: Why are we talking about this kind of power} 847: You know get out of my house #1 And I know # Interviewer: #2 Really # 847: Of white fellows getting kicked out of the house {NS} Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Because they've made just Were not taking care of maid's responsibilities in the house Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: You know Uh Interviewer: Well that was really {X} To say considerably more equal 847: Well it it needs it needs to be more equal and I I I'll tell you that uh Uh Men who think that it'll make a great big difference {NW} It doesn't make a big difference If you're with somebody that's lucky they don't look at the money they make or what they're paying for Interviewer: Yeah but it's not always that simple 847: No no it's it's not that simple explaining it to the average man {NW} Just like I was lucky enough to grow up around And be raised by some very strong Not intimidating but not doubled women And I grew up learning how to respect Womanhood And respecting strong women who were independent In order to have them you know I wasn't intimidated by it {NW} And I I'm not intimidated by strong women now Often time I wanted to In in my work and in my the social environment that I'm in I associate with a lot of very strong Intellectual And sharp black women And One of the biggest problems they have is finding a compatible relationship with men Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And black men Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And often times they'll say you know looks like I'm going to find me a white man {NW} Uh Interviewer: Tell them that they're ain't any 847: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: #1 I well # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: Well you're supposed to keep them looking around Interviewer: That's right {X} 847: But as you will notice like that Most of your super stars Uh like entertainers and so Black females You only see them admiring white men And reason being It is kind of hard for them to find a black man on their level Interviewer: Mm-hmm that's interesting mm-hmm 847: You know It's it's real trip You know I could go through just uh You know there's people {X} Who have uh committed suicide uh {B} Um uh {B} Uh Interviewer: {X} #1 With a white man # 847: #2 That's # Yeah Um uh {NS} You know I could just go on and on {D: You know when I can look back} And people you know like black men actors you know {X} That's because it's so difficult to find One of you who want to respect her Instead of you know lifting her up and being a companion you want to tear her down {NS} Um I remember when uh Um Interviewer: Gosh that's so interesting you get overcompensation in the black males but with with white males the problem is that uh they're not overcompensating they've just always had this power 847: Always had the power Interviewer: Comes naturally they're so surprised if you want if if their their wife or their girlfriend or whatever wants more 847: Well I when when Aretha Franklin her first husband Uh {NS} He was one of the local pimps out of Detroit Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Here she came from a deeply religious family her father's pastor of one of the Largest black churches in the country Uh and an evangelist Uh it was back in the old country And she sang in the church choir of course where she got Uh music ability and talents Uh But instead of Ted loving her and treating her like a wife He was busy always trying to make her feel less than what she was Interviewer: Hmm 847: Uh and she really didn't ever understand that {NW} Uh it it it drove her to narcotics It almost And almost killed her Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh You know and I knew Ted's cousin like I said I knew a bunch of cats in Detroit when I was in service {NW} So my association with people in Detroit Uh was perhaps on a social level Was Larger scale in my association with people in Dallas And uh You know She loved Ted She could have made him a million dollars but he was too busy trying to make her Feel like she was less than what she was Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And it was because he felt inferior to her Interviewer: Mm-hmm they finally split up I think 847: Yeah they finally split up it was but it was just the good Lord's will {NW} That it happened because he had almost driven {D: a state of oblivion} Interviewer: Hmm 847: I and I've seen this in I have a lot of cases like that Interviewer: That's so sad it has to go that far before they you know part company 847: Oh like uh take Diana Ross Uh The cat that she married he can have uh {NS} What do you think about having been a great big super star and dude she married was a {NS} An agent He didn't have a lot of money he wasn't into anything Um And if he had been black she probably would have married him {X} But it was just the fact that Uh I have a friend of mine who used to uh Date her before they got to be Supremes and got famous Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And {NS} She's a very refined and cautious lady And trying to look around and find a love on her level It's kind of hard to do Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know how many people have been where she's been how many people has done what she's done Interviewer: Yeah 847: As black Interviewer: Yeah 847: Very few And those males that have gone that far I can guarantee you somebody got them before they got that far #1 They recognized # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: The quality #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: They caught them in high school Interviewer: {NW} Well you know it must be too a real psychological uh wrench to uh start looking for somebody that's just great you know 847: Yeah Interviewer: Because of the variance everybody's raised to it now that must be a real 847: It's it can be traumatic Interviewer: Yeah just in itself if you can find anybody who 847: #1 The # Interviewer: #2 Has # 847: The trauma comes with uh Peer group of Acceptance Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Um A relative acceptance You know you got to deal with your family too Interviewer: Yeah oh gosh 847: Um But then we have grown up perhaps In an environment too of acceptance due to the fact {NW} That most blacks have some sort of white blood in them {NS} I have a relative of as who Has that high yellow Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know and we used to have another little saying to go with that White and bright damn near white got to be right Interviewer: {NW} That's funny 847: #1 Yeah you know # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: This girl works over in a planning department she's very Splendid you know she's probably over sixty Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And she feels embarrassment to say that to me but I only say it jokingly people have done that And it's a matter of resentment And ridicule and scorn Like my sister And my mother was a {D: well-read} But my grandfather my sister didn't even lie to him and would Very straight head Uh {NS} She suffered A lot of ridicule from my Cousins who Adopted Now they used to call her names like uh {NS} You know what uh Baby Fecal material looks like Yeah yellow And they used to {X} That old shit colored nigger you know {NW} And if she called either one of them a little snot {D: Or assaulted them} She got whipped for that {NW} But if they called her that It was no big deal So she had to grow up With a protective plate here Interviewer: Yeah 847: Of accepting insults Because she's different Interviewer: Yeah 847: So there's a lot of that that was going on Uh they wouldn't Within families So when you start looking around for you know uh {NS} Saying that well you know Jack is going with that white woman over there Sue is courting that white man It doesn't make a difference because it's been going on all the time Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: You know but uh so then the acceptance is a little bit Uh black people accepted A lot more than Interviewer: Than the 847: #1 Than the whites # Interviewer: #2 Whites # 847: Do Because then we have seen more evidence of it right in the community and {NW} And in the family Interviewer: Yeah 847: This is my wife's father His wife Uh So when my son came home and he had a white girlfriend it didn't bother me his grandfather's white Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: But now I would imagine Interviewer: It might have bothered her parents 847: Yeah in particular her daddy Somehow now my mother didn't care But the father you know Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Big deal well technically Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh And I can understand why I understand his you know his thinking And it doesn't bother me I just tell him I told my son is that uh Just be careful You know I uh Always made him have and I still want you know I I grew up in era that's you just didn't lie around with no white woman at night Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Can't lie around in the daytime either Him growing up You know so then I have found myself Even as young as I am Worried about where my son is if he's out with her Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And that should be no concern you know Interviewer: Yeah 847: I'm not bothered by that As much nowadays {NS} Interviewer: Go you know what I'm supposed to be asking you about um farm stuff so I better get to my farm stuff 847: Yeah Interviewer: Um 847: Well we've talked another hour worth of tape Interviewer: Yeah this is a lot more interesting than the farm stuff {X} But let's ask you the farm stuff um yeah let me ask you what kind of heat did you have in the house 847: Well in that in that house in O'Donnell you know the little Stuck old flat I was telling you about Interviewer: Yeah 847: Um We had a coal burning stove It would burn wood too Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh {NS} And there was I remember the It was made out of the Blue steel My galvanized blue steel Interviewer: Oh yeah yeah 847: #1 Like # Interviewer: #2 Well # {D: A rife barrel} 847: Yeah Interviewer: Yeah 847: That little stove Uh {NS} Then I remember that first The stove at school That first stove Stove was a big what we called a pot belly Big iron stove Big old thing Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And you had to shovel coal in it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: The top And then the ash fell down to the bottom and you'd scoop it out of the bottom You know it would fall And we'd dump it out Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Um The stove that we used to cook on In O'Donnell You know I don't really remember that stove Uh {NS} It was my gas burner It was a wood stove too Interviewer: Hmm how'd you make a fire did you 847: {NW} Um Interviewer: Newspaper 847: Newspaper Newspaper matches and kerosene Interviewer: That's dangerous 847: Well you know you You got to pretty proficient and know how to set you a fire you might have this blowing up on you a couple of times Interviewer: Yeah well 847: You know Interviewer: yourself 847: Like uh you know babies two years old now they uh Eighteen months wants to burn their finger they say hot Hot Well you know you learn what's hot when you get to dealing with kerosene and it blows up on you Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know Interviewer: Those 847: So Interviewer: You just had to have them 847: Yeah Interviewer: Oh what happened if the can blow up or 847: Well it's all like an explosion it was just a very big one {N} And it blows out on you Now I but I knew a lot of people that had happened to and they got burnt severely I was just lucky now that I never really got burned really bad Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Um and I remember that galvanized stove {NW} It would get red hot I mean like you know how steel gets in a steel mill Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And it would seem like the fire was going to come through the wall the thing would get so hot {NS} You know But uh and you were not to get next to it Interviewer: Sure 847: Not stand too close to it unless you caught your clothes on fire {NW} I was scalded back of my calf now I got too close to one So it's not real not a terrible scar Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: But I remember what it's from you know {D: pick somebody I snatch} I backed up against the stove you know Interviewer: Very distinct #1 Memory of that # 847: #2 Yeah # Very distinct #1 Memory of that # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: And I don't even get close to stoves now Interviewer: I think I wouldn't either after experiencing that 847: Uh Then we had In Calvin There was this huge Cooking stove the one we cooked on it had an oven It had a Five uh Things on the top you know you'd lift them out and you could touch your skillet in it and the heat would come up to it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And that was a dang good old stove that stove baked as well as anything gas today {NS} Uh {NS} Then we left After you know In Houston {NW} Um That part of the family there they always had a little more modern things Uh we had you know the {D: recliner} Uh Gas heaters And that was the little galvanized heater {NW} What uh the uh Sort of a asbestos Opening stuck in it and And the fire would run up the side of it I guess it would trap {NW} The gases in it and burn them off to keep them from uh {NW} Uh going out into the room Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And that was made out of it was It was a galvanized type So then Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And then came the stoves with the little brick hats on them you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh so I guess we graduated with the stoves like everybody else did Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh Interviewer: Hmm 847: Air conditioning was a thing that uh We didn't have air conditioning until I got into high school Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I went uh the window water fans Interviewer: #1 Yeah I heard of those # 847: #2 Um # {D: And then there was a little Emerson fans} It never blew directly on you it might you would wake up and it would blow on the walls those things would Interviewer: {NW} 847: The rotating fan Interviewer: Yeah this like this 847: You know how they would go Interviewer: Yeah yeah 847: #1 And # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: Every time I'd wake up the fan would be it would turn around to the wall Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I don't know what Interviewer: And stop 847: It would stop #1 Hitting the wall # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: And I remember when my aunt always had heat bumps {NW} People don't have heat bumps anymore like I don't guess they do not in the city Since everybody's got hair on them {NW} But I remember she used to have these terrible {NW} Heat bumps And it come because we had some of the hottest summers that I can remember Back then I re- can remember {NW} It would be a hundred and five a hundred and ten {NW} He's got up to a hundred and fifteen Interviewer: Sounds horrible 847: Uh Interviewer: Unbearable 847: And People think I'm lying you know I the asphalt Had you know the streets uh paved that amount {NW} Is not like the old tar streets {NW} The streets would melt Interviewer: Mm-hmm yeah you couldn't walk on it 847: Couldn't walk on them Interviewer: Yeah 847: And I remember when it was so hot {NW} In Dallas that dogs could not walk On the sidewalk Interviewer: {NW} 847: #1 I'm not # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: Lying #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: Yep yep I I see dogs you know they rush out And get on the cement out on that tar and they'd have to walk in the grass Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Dogs were sharp enough Not to walk on the tar Or on the sidewalk #1 Because # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 847: Sidewalks were hot {NW} That was the year {NS} I remember some news item came out That Someone had put an egg On the street and it cooked Interviewer: I've never even heard of #1 That # 847: #2 Yeah # Interviewer: #1 Never heard of that # 847: #2 It really happened # Interviewer: {X} 847: It did Interviewer: Well you know I didn't know that it was so hot in my hometown until I've left but every time I tell anybody I was from Wichita Falls They said oh yeah the hottest place in the world I go for you 847: Is it Interviewer: {NW} And then sure enough every almost every summer up here for two or three weeks at a time the hottest place in the nation {X} 847: That's right its awfully hot there Interviewer: Yeah it does but it's dry you know so it's not it's not too bad it's kind of that way when it it's dry um let's see did you ever have a house with a fireplace 847: House with a fireplace Yeah {NS} Interviewer: What do you call that that thing above the fireplace where you might set clay {NS} 847: Oh I think we called that the mantle Interviewer: Okay uh there's usually a place in front of the fireplace where it kind of sticks out you know like um I guess you'd sit on it you know when you're making fire or something What do you call that {NS} 847: I don't know Interviewer: I never called it #1 Anything either # 847: #2 Yeah # Interviewer: We never had a fireplace when I was growing up uh what do you call those things in the fireplace that you lay the wood across um usually metal things {NS} 847: That was either we called that either a hearth or a hearth I don't know uh {NW} We didn't call them hearth I think I remember calling them hearth Interviewer: Okay um do you remember a great big piece of wood in the back like at night {X} The heat would reflect out in the room what what did you have did you have a name for that big piece of wood in the back {NS} 847: I remember my step father calling it something because The draft from the wind And the chimney {NS} Would make the Fire greater and he would call it the big something but it I forgot what it was you know it just I don't remember what it what what what he called it Interviewer: A lot of these questions are like that because they're um they're really geared towards older people and you know you get somebody who's sixty-five or older they go oh yeah that's what 847: Yeah let me tell you #1 What it is # Interviewer: #2 For a lot yeah # 847: I missed that though Interviewer: But that's one of the interesting things about this is we can see where the cutoff point is because you know people over such and such an age and people under such and such age don't know the expression you know but that's good you know just tell me huh I don't know that um what do you call that black that goes up in the chimney you know 847: That's soot Interviewer: Okay and let's see oh tell me what kind of uh leather furniture you had usually what kind of stuff did you have with leather 847: I started to say sofa But we called it divan Interviewer: Well is there a difference between sofa and divan or they're the same thing 847: They're the same thing I guess Interviewer: {X} 847: #1 You know you know # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: The The divan was the biggest thing in the room Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And three or four people could sit on it Interviewer: Yeah okay 847: Uh Uh there was the uh Always a rocking chair Uh And the big chair was always a big chair You know like what do they call them now Interviewer: I hear they call them daddy's chair {NW} 847: Yeah #1 You know it was just # Interviewer: #2 It's a big chair # 847: Big chair Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know but then Sofa didn't come to me until later years I I didn't start uh recognizing sofa until I was Um I guess uh in my mid teens Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And I started You know that sofa surfaced to me Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh but a divan Was just a divan and maybe it was maybe the divan might have been A brand name Interviewer: I don't know #1 Might be # 847: #2 I don't know # You know #1 But uh I just remember # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 847: {NW} Um it wasn't a sofa You know the sofa thing every time I see a sofa now I'm tempted to say divan Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh 847: So Interviewer: What did I call it I guess I would call it a {NS} 847: Oh wait a minute I have another one Couch Interviewer: Couch that's what I would call it 847: Yeah yeah Interviewer: I couldn't I couldn't think of #1 The word # 847: #2 Yeah # Yeah well you see Divan was first couch second and sofa last Interviewer: Okay right I get it {NW} 847: {NW} Interviewer: Uh let's see oh what do you call a piece of furniture that you put in the bedroom has drawers in it you put your clothes in it fold fold things up socks and that sort of thing what is it 847: A chester drawer Interviewer: Okay you ever hear it called anything else 847: Um {NS} Yeah but I forget {NS} I remember hearing that not too long ago {NW} Interviewer: Okay is there a difference between chifforobe and the chester drawer or are they the same thing 847: Same thing Interviewer: Okay 847: Unless the chifforobe was the was the one with a mirror on it {NW} That I call a dresser Interviewer: Oh okay okay yeah now if it has a mirror I call it dresser too but 847: Yeah I don't even know how you would even begin to spell chifforobe {NW} I just remember that that's what it sounded like Interviewer: You know I've never even heard that word before I started doing this 847: {NW} Interviewer: Yeah a lot of people call it that a lot of people 847: Still do too Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Yeah Interviewer: But mostly older 847: Yeah Interviewer: Older people 847: {X} {NS} I remember my grandfather having {NW} A wardrobe closet And it was a thing that stood High Would have a mirror on it In the front Interviewer: Oh 847: On the door you know had a door a lot like uh Maybe four feet long or tall however you want to say it And inside was a place to hang Coats uh Shirts Suits excuse me pants Very small space like this {NW} Into the side of it Had these little drawers in them Very uniquely made you know and that was a dresser {NW} Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: I want no wardrobe closet Interviewer: Oh okay this is a yeah 847: And and he called it a wardrobe closet This here Interviewer: Did you have a place to put your hats like a shelf on 847: Keep a little shelf right there But it was a piece of furniture not a closet Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Just a piece of furniture Interviewer: I think my grandparents had one except I think I don't think it had drawers it wasn't that fancy it was it had it had two doors and it was all hanging stations and shelf I think at the top and and uh maybe shoes down at the bottom something like that but it didn't have drawers {NS} 847: And there was the iron beds Interviewer: Iron beds 847: Mm-hmm {NS} You know you know what The big fellows you're The brass beds with the tubular type Interviewer: Yeah 847: Well then that was that was that was an iron bed And everybody had their iron bed #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Huh # 847: Uh man I I remember the first {NW} Bedroom furniture That I remember my mother buying Very fine piece of furniture And she was really proud of that furniture Because We graduated from the iron beds to that See now iron beds Had the springs that went across the bottom of it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know And That was before And you always have to put a couple mattresses on top of #1 The thing # Interviewer: #2 Oh # 847: You know #1 You remember # Interviewer: #2 Keep you # From feeling those 847: Yes as a matter of fact I'll pass by Some antique places that I've seen the iron #1 Beds # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: #1 But # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # I was going to say {D: They might be cut} Too 847: Yeah they did {NW} But they were sturdy beds though #1 You # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 847: Couldn't wear one out Interviewer: I'm sure that's true were they comfortable? 847: Yeah you had to kind of build them up to make them #1 Comfortable though # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: #1 You know yeah # Interviewer: #2 Pile up the mattresses # Uh what do you call those things that a window that you that you pull down to shut off the light {NS} 847: Window shade Interviewer: Okay um hmm my voice is gone it happens every time I record something my voice 847: That's what I was telling you #1 About # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: Me and the cold weather Interviewer: I better go have my hearing check I wonder if I've got hearing loss uh oh what do you call the space at the top of the house that's just under the roof you store things up there 847: {NW} Interviewer: Sometimes they're big enough to walk around in sometimes they're not that tall 847: It became an attic to me later but we always called them a loft Interviewer: Oh you did that's interesting did you all uh keep boxes and stuff and the old furniture and stuff up there or 847: Yeah whatever you didn't want to use but you didn't want to throw it away Interviewer: Yeah right 847: That's what went up in the loft Interviewer: Yeah okay okay 847: And when I first had heard of attic I just didn't relate to attic Interviewer: {NW} 847: And it's kind of I mean you know I relate to attic now {X} Come in {NS} Aux: Good morning excuse me would you like to have some tea {NS} Interviewer: That's okay {NS} {X} 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} Sometimes when I'm trying when I'm trying to get somebody to to tell me something that they always say like sometimes it's a dirty word or something they don't want to say it in front of me you know 847: Yeah Interviewer: But I'm trying to get them to tell me for the record I'll say oh come on I won't tell anybody 847: {NW} Interviewer: That means they'll go ahead and tell me they know it's on tape 847: {NW} Know it's on the tape Interviewer: Yeah um did you have a little room off the kitchen where you put canned goods and extra dishes and stuff like that 847: Yeah Interviewer: What did you call that 847: There wasn't pantry {NS} Store room Interviewer: Okay the same thing as pantry 847: #1 Same thing as # Interviewer: #2 You call it the same thing now # 847: They're the same thing Interviewer: Okay um what would you call a bunch of old worthless things that you're going to that you're about to throw away just haven't gotten around to throw them away yet or give them to goodwill or whatever {NS} 847: I don't know I relate to it as being junk Interviewer: Okay did you have a did you put junk in the attic or did you have another place where you threw the junk 847: Well there was good junk And bad junk Interviewer: Yeah 847: The good junk went up in the loft Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: You know And if it was something you really didn't care about You'd set it outside Interviewer: What happened to it 847: {NW} Back then people didn't steal that much {X} Interviewer: Nobody would steal it 847: Nobody would steal it Interviewer: Um what all kinds of stuff do did women have to do women or whoever the one who's doing it to you know the house is dirty and they were having company come over they'd have to do what 847: {NS} Straighten up Interviewer: Okay 847: Yeah Interviewer: Um have you ever heard uh red up to red up the house 847: Yeah Interviewer: I haven't heard that oh yeah well since I started doing this I started hearing that 847: {NW} That would be like if you were in the kitchen they would say {NW} Get on up into the front of the house Interviewer: Get on up 847: Get on up into the front of the house Interviewer: Right {NW} 847: {X} Interviewer: It's like up and down confusion 847: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} We don't use the word {D: like that} Uh what do you call that thing that you sweep with 847: {X} Interviewer: Okay um oh what do you call that thing that if you had a two story house we'd call that thing we we use to get to the first floor or the second floor {NS} 847: Stairs Interviewer: Okay but the outside would you call it the same thing 847: Uh When I was young I called it big steps Interviewer: Right {NW} 847: Yeah but I think now it's stairs to me Interviewer: Uh-huh okay um you mentioned had a a front porch or a back porch 847: Yeah we had a front porch One Each place had a porch Interviewer: Uh-huh in front 847: Front porch And at the house in Calvin there was a back porch {NW} Uh one duplex we lived in had a screen in Side porch That we called a screen in back porch Wasn't in the back because there was a bedroom in the back and no door {NW} Back there So it was those five screened in Porch Interviewer: Either in the back or in the front 847: Yeah Interviewer: Yeah what would you call it would you still call it a porch or would you call it something else if it went like all the way across the front of the house and maybe all the way down one side you see them and they're pretty big 847: I remember older people Before I started saying porch it was a gallery Interviewer: That's interesting 847: You know going on the gallery Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh 847: You know that's where the swing was You know a swing would be out on the gallery Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know {NS} Interviewer: {X} #1 What if it was a # 847: #2 {X} # Interviewer: What if it was on the second story would you call it a porch or 847: Uh {NS} Porch now I call it a balcony Interviewer: Okay um if the doors are open and you don't want that way you might tell somebody to get up and 847: {NS} I would say shut the door Interviewer: Okay 847: Uh {NS} Here recently I'm saying close the door please Interviewer: {X} I say shut the door too 847: Yeah Interviewer: {NW} Uh oh what would you call the boards on the outside of the house that overlapped each other 847: {NW} Planks Interviewer: Okay okay ever heard them called anything else {NS} 847: Uh {NS} No Interviewer: Okay um how old were you when you learned to drive 847: {NS} Ten Interviewer: Ten #1 How'd you manage # 847: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: That 847: {NS} Well you know I told you my aunt was uh at was a double amputee {NW} And uh She bought a new car Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And She always had to have somebody chauffeur her around And since I was growing tall she figured that it would be You know in due time by the time I got to twelve That I could do all the chauffeuring around Interviewer: Oh 847: And uh I remember the first time I was always sharp enou- you know I was sharp enough to watch people Shift into gears you know and I would see you know mash in on the uh What do you call the thing That's {NW} #1 The clutch # Interviewer: #2 Clutch # 847: Clutch Interviewer: {NW} 847: Haven't had a clutch in so long in a car Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And uh This fellow took me out on a country road there He could have taken me down main street in O'Donnell Interviewer: #1 Yeah right # 847: #2 {NW} # {NW} Barely outside of town And I'm here I am shifting gears looking at my feet {NW} And I'm so scared into death {NW} Because I'm trying to figure out Get the coordination Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: I'm off the gas on the brake to the clutch Interviewer: Right 847: And I was Really didn't even fit my feet he almost had a heart attack Interviewer: {NW} 847: #1 I was going like # Interviewer: #2 You were right there # 847: Sixty miles an hour {NW} Trying to get my feet right {NS} {NW} Interviewer: No what a raw tale 847: Yeah {NW} You know the Lo- The Lord protects fools and children Interviewer: {NW} 847: He was a fool and I was a Interviewer: You were a child 847: {NW} Interviewer: That's funny I remember the first time I ever drove I was in driver's ed in high school I got thirty miles an hour and it scared me to death because I I see trees whizzing past you know feels like I was just racing down the road now I get impatient if somebody goes thirty miles an hour 847: Yeah well that was a real trip up I guess I've had some narrow escapes in my life that was one And I didn't it didn't frighten me I asked him so what are you scared of Interviewer: Yeah what's the big deal 847: Yeah and I was I was a real smartass too Interviewer: {NW} 847: No really I just I was a brat too I remember that That I would challenge I recognize that some of the older black people were They were illiterate and ignorant And with my growing up around my aunt You know being ten eleven years old and you start really knowing that you kin- that you know something that older people don't know {NS} Uh Like you know I did yeah that was real fun {NS} {NW} Sure they just hated you for it too I don't know they might have been hollering at the No I I think they liked me really liked me and I can remember people saying {NW} That's a good boy and I said deal with it Interviewer: Yeah {NW} 847: He's a good boy Interviewer: {NW} 847: And there was this gentleman who used to come see my aunt And I always thought And She got to be my aunt After I got in high school in Dallas Because it was just wasn't very proper saying auntie Interviewer: Oh that's what you called her though when you lived with her 847: And she was Aunt Dorothy Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh 847: You know wasn't no Aunt Dorothy none of that business Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh 847: And it was Aunt Dorothy Interviewer: Aunt yeah 847: That's right And he was He was coming to call into court Interviewer: Oh I see 847: Totally illiterate old gentleman but he was real suave Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: You know Uh no matter how he lived with people uh there's always that Masculine thing that's got to come out of him Interviewer: Yeah 847: #1 And he would come by # Interviewer: #2 Come by # 847: He would come by He would come by and sit and she would ask him a question she Oh Mister Fields have you ever been to Some place you know Yes Misses Giddings Interviewer: {NW} 847: I has been to Galveston um uh Galveston Texas Interviewer: {NW} 847: I was in Galveston {NW} Oh it could have been some time ago Interviewer: {NW} 847: And he was very proper you know and he would say And she would ask him if he could handle saying a revelation about something he'd say {NW} Oh I does I certainly does Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Man he used to {D: stress} Me out because I knew better at age ten than to say I does Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: He didn't And it was I would be you know like rolling Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And when he would leave And she would say What are you doing I would say I does I does {NW} Interviewer: Rat 847: {NW} Interviewer: {X} 847: Yeah but he was a real trickster that old man {NW} But he's very nice now Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh 847: Um He always had some Magic medical potions You know he worked at John Sealy Uh As a orderly I guess Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And it was something he always learned how to make when he was down there Interviewer: Oh 847: And he was coming right up with these home remedies Made up like they were real laboratory Geniuses Interviewer: Oh yeah God it's just like what do they give to you {NW} Did you ever try any of them 847: Yeah Interviewer: Did it work 847: It worked Interviewer: Can't not make it work can you 847: {NW} My mother told me about some sort of a fad That A lady made it was made up out of Lye {NS} Animal fat Coal ashes and something else And this person had during that time have cancer {NW} And Whatever this was that they made up they applied it To his tumor And in due time This thing just lifted up out of the socket Interviewer: Ew 847: Like you cut a corn out Interviewer: Mm 847: And Interviewer: Incredible 847: This person the doctor said was going to die within a few days or weeks or whatever it was Interviewer: Oh 847: They had no cure And uh whatever this was that this lady made up And she told me how to make that stuff The same thing with the stuff I was telling you about this man made up {NW} He made it out of grape fruit juice And some other things And was Not like a lac- It was like a laxative But it had Sort of a purifying effect it cleaned your whole body out Your elimination would be as black as this pebble Interviewer: Horrid 847: But It Like On a high blood pressure indigestion That sort of thing like if a person ate too much and they had {NW} What they called back then the {D: colic} And the {D: colic} Came from eating uh Cabbage and other foods that would uh Spoil real quick And people would get real sick {NW} But this stuff that this man made up It would make It even changed make people's complexion better {NW} {D: They got all the impuritans out of their body you know just just} Like a flushing system And you'd have to drink this stuff for about a week {NW} And I always said I would remember how to make it because I know how it made It made you feel just completely new after you drank it Interviewer: Hmm did it taste bad 847: It didn't taste good but it didn't taste like castor oil Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And if you could sweeten that with sugar I don't know I just can't remember what it was #1 But it was # Interviewer: #2 Huh # Modern medicine I think has a lot to learn from things like that I you know I have to pick and choose which one but to reject them all is stupid 847: Yeah to reject all of them it really is stupid because Uh Some things that happen to people today And we let them go Uh They did work You know old remedies did work Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh It could be that Modern science and technology What has really happened Lot of things in this credit existence as a means of uh This is my estimation of what has happened {NS} To sell something {NW} You know You you'll have someone will come along with a Manufactured item and say it's better than this or that Um it has these properties in it And this is the the the nutritional value Uh this is the vitamin content and so forth And they spell it out and they say this is no good or this you know {NW} Uh and I know darn well that it does work Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh My aunt used to make up something it had uh Cinnamon in it Uh I don't know what the hell what all was in there it had a petroleum jelly {NW} And it made people's hair grow Interviewer: Really 847: Yeah She uses it {D: pressing all everything} I haven't seen anything like it on the market Um That Whatever that formula was it went to Agree with him Interviewer: Hmm 847: Uh Interviewer: Too bad you didn't write it down 847: That's right {NS} There was a fellow that use to shine shoes in Dallas {NW} Who had Something he made up some sort of a paste It can make your shoes stay shined a week And why you know you know silicones and all this business Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know how silicone closes the pores of the shoes of the leather Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: It causes crack but this stuff let them breathe #1 And # Interviewer: #2 Very # Interesting 847: And he passed away about three years ago And I procrastinated up to his death about I was going to get him to give me that Whether it was he made it And he wouldn't tell anybody he told me once he said I might tell you one day Soon as I like you Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: He ain't ever told anybody Interviewer: That's too bad I wonder what in the world it could have been probably probably never told anybody no way 847: He didn't ever tell anybody Interviewer: Huh {NS} 847: So you know like uh Ignorant people I would say not ignorant illiterate people and to me there's a difference between ignorance Interviewer: Yeah and 847: And illiteracy Interviewer: Yeah 847: Uh Uh They were they were ignorant but not illiterate Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: You know Interviewer: And real shrewd some of them 847: Well they might have been wait no they were illiterate they're not ignorant They knew things that Perhaps a literary genius Being literate Would not permit you to know But here's this illiterate person Who is not ignorant Who knew a lot of things That literate people don't know Interviewer: Yeah yeah that's an interesting point about how literacy for uh for actually for men {X} 847: #1 That's right # Interviewer: #2 You don't # Consider something worth knowing 847: That you bypass like Interviewer: Yeah mm-hmm that's real interesting you know that's really one of the things that this survey is for because um one thing I did originally when restarting was to preserve some old things to get some older people well actually it was originally for all older people it started like in nineteen twenty-nine and they went out and got these Seventy-five year old people in New England and got recipes and and remedies and things like that 847: {NW} You know it's it's like it's {NW} I know I know a number of con men I grew up catching with con men and Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And uh {NW} The hardest people for them to con Are ignorant and illiterate people Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: The easiest person to con is the person who has literacy And who feels like he's not ignorant Interviewer: Mm-hmm yeah you already know they're ignorant 847: {D: You don't lose here} Interviewer: Yeah right 847: And he can relate to being slick and sharp And then what people get conned with is they want something for nothing Interviewer: Oh yeah 847: It's very difficult to approach an ignorant uh illiterate person With a fast game They are too slow they want to say huh Explain that to me Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Well I don't believe that #1 You you # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 847: Is that really the truth Oh no you're not going to get me that for nothing #1 I know better than that # Interviewer: #2 Probably # They know they're not going to get something like that 847: {NW} And they says it's not worth your time it'll get you {X} One man can get you busted real quick Interviewer: {NW} 847: Because Interviewer: {X} 847: Asking too many questions they'll go ask somebody Do you know This fellow came to me and said this or that what do you think about that Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: It's really hard to fool them Interviewer: That's interesting oh let's see what have I got here okay back to housing what we call little buildings where you keep gardening tools stuff like that {NS} 847: Well I call it store house Interviewer: Okay um say you had a house that that uh say it's like this it comes in front of the house and it's got a right angle like that and and those parts of the house are have a peaked roof like this no 847: Yeah I know what you're talking about Interviewer: Here and then there's a low place where they join do you have a name for that low place on a rooftop 847: No Interviewer: Neither did I 847: Uh-huh Interviewer: {X} Uh oh what do you call those things that go on the edge of the roof that carry water off 847: Rain gutter Interviewer: Okay um oh have any experience at all with a farm 847: Yeah you know like being in in O'Donnell Go on the farm quite a bit Interviewer: Yeah well what kind of uh what kind of buildings did they have on the farms out there 847: {NW} Well there was the {NS} Some farmers had pig pens For little pig houses you know you know There's a barn Uh We didn't call them silos though Thing where they kept the corn Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And uh the grain Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I've forgotten what they call those Interviewer: Was it a separate building 847: Yeah People always kept In a uh Circular type building it was made circular Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And real tar most of the time Interviewer: Huh 847: Uh And there was a chicken house Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh And they either called that the chicken roost Interviewer: Hmm 847: The chicken roost or the chicken house Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Well I think the roost were the things that they built in there with the little Boards that run across Where the chicken was fed up on it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh And then there was a little chalk-like thing with the hay in it Folded up for the hens to lay they eggs in Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I forgot what they called those things But I remember {NS} Interviewer: You remember something that they put under the hen to make her think she was sitting on on her own egg and it would make her lay 847: Yeah I don't know what they call that though Uh my grandfather had A lot of chickens Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: As a matter of fact that's the only way we got to eat chicken around here It was at uh you had to get you know grow your own chicken Interviewer: Then you had to kill it too yuck 847: Yeah that was always the trick Interviewer: {NW} Did you ever do that 847: I remember perhaps wringing the neck off a couple of chickens And you know the blood just Interviewer: Oh 847: #1 And the # Interviewer: #2 Gross # 847: Chicken is flopping around Interviewer: {NW} 847: And I always hated that Interviewer: Oh that's gross yeah I don't think I'd care for that either 847: My mother My grandfather had a little banty rooster Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: It was his pet rooster {NW} And my grandfather You mentioned you thought he was a very good looking old man he was And all all the ladies were in their life I guess they might have had younger women back then Anyway Uh he had refused to buy Groceries And My mother came from Dallas Now {X} This story she related to me {NS} And she killed his pet banty rooster Interviewer: {NW} 847: And cooked it Interviewer: Oh 847: Fed it to him Interviewer: Oh that is horrible did you do it intentionally how mean why'd you do that 847: Because uh He had neglected his responsibilities to the family {NS}