Interviewer: {NS} That's so funny {NW} 847: And he was looking for his rooster Interviewer: Oh go- 847: And he had a name I forgot what the name was {NW} And he would say Has anybody seen whatever his name is Interviewer: {NW} 847: And uh {NS} My grandmother was afraid of my grandfather she called him mister Williams {NW} had all the respe- They said afraid but it was a manner of respect That submissive respect that women had for their husband {NS} And she said no mister Williams I haven't seen She knew my mother had killed him Interviewer: Hmm 847: So I asked my mom I said tell me have you seen my rooster And whatever his name was let's call him Charlie {NS} She said yeah you ate it Interviewer: {NW} That's awful 847: He said what do you mean I ate him She said well you know the chicken you ate yesterday That was him Interviewer: {NW} What did he say then? 847: It made him sick He got immediately sick Interviewer: {NS} Isn't that #1 Funny # 847: #2 He # He became immediately sick and he stayed sick for {NS} A week or so {NS} He couldn't go to work Interviewer: Oh that's terrible he must have really liked that rooster 847: Yeah you know like the little rooster did tricks for him Would like see him coming down the road and go meet him and walk back with him Sit on his shoulder you know Interviewer: Oh 847: And {NW} Interviewer: That was terrible to do that to him {X} That is such a funny thing to do though gosh that's funny 847: They could have made a movie out of that one I think Interviewer: Yeah they could have 847: Yeah that was real you know And before my mother passed she passed four years ago She used to talk about Feeding her daddy his pet rooster Interviewer: {NW} Your mother had a mean streak {NW} 847: Yes she did Interviewer: {NW} 847: You know I told you my sister got married when she When she finished college Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And uh {NS} My mother didn't speak to her for five years Interviewer: Because she didn't like the guy 847: No it was just the idea That she had worked as hard as she had {NW} Thinking that she was doing the right thing sacrificing all these things {NW} And my mother was making about fifteen seventeen dollars a week here And my sister was She went to Lincoln High school She was Miss Lincoln Uh {D: She was Miss Tolleson when she was in college} Interviewer: Hmm 847: She was uh voted the best dressed girl Uh ya know and it took a lot of sacrifice You know a lot of bean cooking #1 Uh # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: You know uh Interviewer: But then you go 847: Yeah lot of butt kissing too #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # 847: {X} You see because in the family it was supposed to go like this As the oldest You know you move the oldest one out And it's the oldest's responsibility To pick out the next one coming along And that's the reason why I was telling you even though my brother's two years older than I am I respect him as an elder Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know I don't argue with him You know I don't uh You know when we were kids we would fight {NW} And go on but it was always that He was left in charge Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Now with my younger brother I was in charge of him You know and like My younger brother respects me like I said {X} For nothing because he used to win them all the time {NS} You know and he was he was he wasn't cruel But he'd pick some real Questionable times to want to Discipline his younger brother Interviewer: I see 847: {NW} So Interviewer: Bad timing 847: Yeah I wasn't even now Uh with my kids I'm not a strict disciplinarian I believe in being strict in what you Uh in what you say and what you do In r- In relation to your discipline But being uh Physical in discipline I never liked that never appreciated it And of course I know when I was a kid I didn't like whippings And I knew that whippings did not curtail any of my action Interviewer: Yeah 847: So it had to be that you looked for some Psychology in dealing with kids Anyway that's uh kind of Goes back to a lot of things it was talking about there Interviewer: Well it's amazing that she could keep it up for five years without speaking to her 847: My sister would write her {NW} She would burn the letters and send them back The ashes back to her Interviewer: My gosh 847: Yeah she was Interviewer: She was mad 847: Yeah she was mad Interviewer: {NW} 847: She became obsessed with her anger Interviewer: Well she got over it though 847: Well she got over it she when she passed she was living with my sister in California Interviewer: Huh huh that's #1 Interesting # 847: #2 Yeah # Interviewer: Uh what do you call the upper part of the barn where you might keep the hay {NS} 847: I forgot it I do know there was a name for it though Interviewer: What what did they do with the hay did they ever just pile it outside the barn or or put it all in the b- 847: Yeah I'd put all the hay in the barn You know if you leave hay out in the weather it'll rot Interviewer: I guess I don't know I've never thought much about hay 847: Yeah you know like uh then it Uh it wouldn't you know the cows didn't like it Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh when you'd leave it If you leave it out too long like that when you when you have hay Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Because uh Rain And snow and all would make it just Almost turn back to the dirt Interviewer: Oh 847: You know just water there Interviewer: Right yeah how am I doing on tape here 847: We uh {NS} About three quarters going I guess Interviewer: Okay um they ever grow hay out there did you ever see them cut hay or anything like that 847: Yeah Interviewer: When when they when it'd first come through to cut the hay then what did they do with it after they cut it 847: Uh {NS} The old machines would just throw it to the side Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And then came the things that bale the hay As it went along and had wires you'd have to set These spools of wire in it And once it got so packed It would automatically It had some things that would bale it and it'd just throw it out to the side Interviewer: W- all the old machines would just throw it off to the side what did what did they do to the vent after that do you know 847: Yeah like uh yeah {X} If there was enough people around they had to come up and gather it up And bundle them things and they had like a {NW} Some tools you know like Very ingenious things they would pull Those wires and stretch them and And twist as hard as the machines would do Interviewer: Hmm because they had to bale it by hand 847: Yeah Interviewer: They had proper um what all kind of animals did they keep besides\ what you named chickens and hens what else I mean 847: There was a thing we called guinea Interviewer: Yeah yeah 847: I haven't seen a guinea since I've been grown Interviewer: There was an old woman in Wichita Falls who used to sell those little guinea eggs 847: And Interviewer: they're good 847: Um I remember thinking that guineas Peacocks Rabbits {C: siren in background} Um of course the pigs Chickens the ducks {NW} And that's the difference between ducks and geese I know some people who had geese Interviewer: {X} 847: {X} Interviewer: Oh 847: Um Cow the horses Course you had the milk cow Milk cow was standing Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And if a person had Like a a bull Uh they were really doing it you know #1 That bull # Interviewer: #2 Oh # 847: You know Interviewer: Yeah uh-huh 847: Uh Uh there were Several people I knew who had donkeys Uh donkeys were really they was no real use for anything uh Interviewer: Hmm 847: Then {NS} Almost everybody had mules because horses were not good plows Never such thing as a good plow horse Mules were the best plow animals that they used Interviewer: Oh really huh 847: Yeah Interviewer: Why couldn't horses do it 847: Well uh Usually the horses were a little bit were more delicate {NW} Uh and they became It was more Horses are more easy to injure Doing farm lines working like that Interviewer: Hmm uh-huh 847: Uh now the mule Is a cross between A donkey and a horse Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Right they're all the same 847: Yeah Interviewer: Yeah 847: They're sterile there's nothing they can do Interviewer: Yeah right {NS} Uh 847: Uh let me see turkeys I know people had turkeys Rabbits Interviewer: Hmm 847: Course then tame rabbits came along a lot later because now when I was in West Texas This time of the year was the time to go to jack rabbit hunting Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Um when I jo- {NW} Jack rabbits and cotton tails Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And um The you actually had professional hunters who would go out And just kill all the rabbits that you can think of you know like people have fried rabbit Brawn rabbit Stewed rabbit smothered rabbit Interviewer: Never had rabbit 847: Never had rabbit Interviewer: Uh-uh 847: There are some places in Dallas last year I found a place that Sold corn fed rabbits And corn fed rabbit tastes A lot like chicken Interviewer: Huh I would love to try a rabbit never have tried it never never seen it 847: Well you fry a rabbit like you do chicken It's um uh flower batter Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I've known people to put meal batter on it too Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh But and jack rabbits were tougher Uh than uh Cotton tails cotton tail had a {NW} Sweeter more tender meat Sort of like the difference between veal and heavy beef Interviewer: Hmm 847: Uh but very good it was good eating and uh There were I know there I don't know where they hunted in West Texas But there were some areas that you can hunt bear and uh {NS} I remember having bear meat steak Interviewer: {X} 847: Yeah Interviewer: {NS} {X} {NS} {X} 847: Alright Interviewer: {X} 847: Yeah let's see what he wants Interviewer: Okay {NS} Um you were talking about ear aches and allergies and stuff so I got all inspired and uh went to the doctor {X} For my ear ache and and was wondering what was wrong with me and he said I don't think anything's wrong with you he always said that and uh anyways he gave us antibiotics so last night I took the first one And this morning for the first time I woke up with no ear ache I mean it feels so good you know {X} 847: Antibiotics Interviewer: Yeah 847: #1 They will # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 847: Make you sick Interviewer: Just horrible 847: I uh {NS} Well I heard last Sometime in the last month and this morning That uh there is a {D: Drug Pamolex uh} Uh Was going to present something to the Uh {NS} What what government department is it uh that controls medication Interviewer: FDA 847: Yeah Interviewer: Yeah 847: {NS} Well the report was that {X} Has Has about as much {NS} Pain relieving qualities {NS} As an aspirin And I used to tell my doctor that when he'd give me {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I said these things are no good they make me sick in the first place it's taking me further {NW} And this doctor's got he got a little belligerent with me said you're not a doctor and I'm like look I tell him I said {X} Are no good I said it's just It's a psychological thing that people take {X} It's a psychological thing that they'll take it This will peel off the pain Interviewer: Yeah 847: And the pain subsides Psychologically But it never did do them any good Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And I was really glad to hear that report You know uh because That medication has been oversold #1 It # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # Yeah yeah 847: It could kill you You know and uh a lot of people take it In the hopes of relieving pain And they become psychologically hooked on it and it's nothing And you think about in The inflated cost of {X} Interviewer: Oh yeah 847: You know it's just Interviewer: its Aspirin 847: Yeah Interviewer: Like an aspirin nine out of ten 847: That's right you know and if you want to get a hundred {X} You might got a {X} Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know so uh It's I just imagine that there are a lot of medications on the market That supposedly are doing various things but don't Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: I'm glad you told your doctor that Because getting over the ear infection You know the pain has to come from something Interviewer: I know I'm not dreaming it you know 847: And he keeps saying oh well there's nothing wrong I don't see anything {NW} Well first thing to do is take an antibiotic Uh I would prefer getting an injection you know like if you get something And the Interviewer: Yeah quick 847: And it's quicker But most of them don't want to give you antibiotics in the first place Interviewer: Yeah yeah they give you something like a {X} And then they think it'll go away I had this for two years off and on 847: You probably had an infection Interviewer: Probably something low grade yeah probably I could get more that's why I've been getting more colds and stuff 847: Yeah Interviewer: Have them 847: That's right Interviewer: Colds and flu and I had the flu like three times last year 847: {NW} He suddenly can tell you well oh that was I just gave you that to satisfy you I still don't want to use it Interviewer: That's right just to just to well towards women you know they don't have anything to do but sit around at home and think about where they hurt you know 847: Yeah well you know I I think what happens sometimes is doctors will stereotype women And they said oh well There's really nothing wrong with her I'll just give her this and get out of here Interviewer: Yeah even if you were a dog gone {X} 847: Yeah that really makes me angry to see them do that Because uh each person should be treated as an individual {NW} You know not lumped in as {NW} Well here comes another so and so here and I'll give her this pill Interviewer: Yeah right 847: You know Interviewer: Here comes another type A 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} Tell me something what is the the are you ready to talk to me 847: Mm Interviewer: Oh okay I was making sure uh what i- what do you do exactly what is the nature of your job 847: {NW} The nature of my job Interviewer: And your title and all 847: My title Is the director of community development {NS} And community development has Five neighborhood centers Which we call multipurpose centers The activities that go on in the multi-purpose centers Uh things such as Man power units now man power units Uh we're man power counselors And our responsibility is to Recruit persons for jobs that perhaps have been developed Hard jobs owners that may come in And various parts in industry Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh They they're the record keeper system itself something Quite similar to what the state Uh employment agency uh Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Same type of work Interviewer: Was this for the marines or or for blacks or for 847: Well you know it's uh {NS} All persons who would fit into any kind of criteria Ironically what happens though in our program And when the program was mandated on account of this {NS} It was specifically set up at that particular time with blacks in mind {NS} Uh reason being is that uh {NS} This was in the mid sixties when uh the program was created and Being being in the mid sixties Uh words came out the garage and that sort of thing in the sixties. Uh it was determined by members of congress Uh which they had a distinguished panel of uh I guess you would consider them as uh moderate uh liberal Individuals who had Sought to have some specific programs Going to into the {NW} It came out of the fact that uh There were studies that showed That uh the black male Uh was like in in many areas {X} So we came up with a lot of what was called a man power act Training program uh that uh National companies subscribed to And were assisted through federal Uh grants such as uh Interviewer: {NW} 847: Uh since the NA contract was left to a matter of fact where our contract was left To a company like say Brennan Um {NS} And a portion of these individuals' salary was paid Uh uh three six months something like that pretending like we're train. {NW} Into the programs that uh the positions that they would assume {NW} Well out of this grew The community action programs as they are Which was basically to give the community A space of operation Or a sounding board or a testing board community. {NS} It was recognized in the sixties {NW} That minorities had little or no voice at all In those things that determine What they do on a daily basis Or throughout their whole life. The community action program Uh primary responsibility Is to organize people In the community to assist them In various things that they might need in the community. We first started off with things such as trash pick up lights Uh adequate housing uh Uh which would grow the problems which was directly concerned uh Police brutality in the communities and that sort of thing with the intention to Sensitize police men to {NW} The needs of the black community and actually the sensitivity Uh that they needed in order to deal in the community {NW} how that grew u- Uh counselors would uh Consider them being neighborhood counselors Neighborhood counselors were developed Uh in various parts of the Every community and these persons were seated on an advisory board An advisory committee {NW} That uh have direct linkage with the five neighborhood centers I was telling you about {NW} Each one of them have a community advisory board {NW} Now since the program was set up With blacks primarily in mind {NS} Most of the facilities of the community action program Are located in black communities Uh in in recent years Uh guess in the mid seventies {NW} Has been this concern The government and other entities in the community about uh ethnic entities About discrimination in the community action program uh Primarily what people were saying is that Then the program is uh Not meeting the need of poor people in general in the community {NW} Uh It seems the fact The government completely had people except these programs had forgot That there were poor whites in this country A whole lot of poor Mexicans in the country But at that time Mexicans were being carried {NS} On the Census as being white It was though this Hispanic business was just You know uh Just like uh the word Hispanic to me I probably only realized That even being it existed Two years ago And what has happened Is that man another thing is happening with the Hispanic thing {NW} That means that everybody who has a Spanish surname {NW} No matter what color they are Are thrown into this bag as a Hispanic Interviewer: Really Just by their Spanish surname Mm-hmm 847: Uh then You have the concerns of uh Like I said poor whites Mexican Americans Or Hispanics as they call them now from the government Lumping a group in of Spanish surname {NS} Uh what are community action programs doing Are they meeting the needs of all the people in the community {NW} Well I can tell you that now no Because then the program was set up {NS} With guidelines that specified that Create a necessary and feasible That person who worked in these centers That the ethnic makeup of the staff should be Similar or as close to the ethnic makeup of the community {NW} Well if you set up all the programs all the centers in black neighborhoods Well you're going to come up with All what other than if almost a totally black staff Uh Then that was a concern that I have with uh And the truth of the matter's never been told {NW} Uh federal government And other ethnic entities within a community will say well The community action program needs to be doing more But the community action program ever since In the last I would say in the last six Years to my knowledge funds have been cut {NW} Nationally and locally So how you going to expand the program Or expand the needs In the community because the needs are expanded {NW} Uh in each city in this country it is Uh population isn't going down it's going up {NW} Well the more populous an area is the more poor people it'll have Interviewer: Yeah 847: And a greater need for more facilities Or there's a greater need for more funds in the program {NS} Well you take in You bring in two more groups you pull whites and you pull Mexicans in How are you going to serve these people {NW} In a program that has been successively cut And the funding is not adequate to take care of those programs and their progress right now So you know it's it's real it comes as a bureaucratic Uh flipping post for a lot of people Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know now we have you know center {X} {NS} Like in the West Dallas center We have affiliation with planned parenthood Uh they have a clinic in the West Dallas center {NS} Uh Mental health mental retardation Is going to locate offices in the West Dallas center Uh We uh have had had strained relationships with really Baylor University's dental college And the mobile units that they used which Is a program that's funded through the seventh day adventist church And it's manned by the Baylor dental program over there With their interns uh students I don't know {D: But you pack them with students} Uh and a professor doctor From over at Baylor Now what they do is they spend ten weeks out of the year And they will locate two weeks In each of the five areas With clinics it goes Five days at a time Uh sometimes a doctor or dentist would run the clinic For two weeks in one area Now we have attempted to get Fifteen or more persons in there Uh dental hygiene work Which would be some extractions a lot of Cleaning a lot of preventive things that they will do To keep from having to do Uh the uh extractions and so forth Interviewer: Yeah 847: It's been a very successful program Uh but there has just been a few things that's been going on Uh we uh worked In areas that uh we have to have A matching share a local match share which you would consider Not consider it's called The in-kind non-federal share Now what happens with the in-kind non-federal share Is in each share we have a resource coordinator Whose responsibilities are to Seek in the community Various things such as donations and Durable goods Service Time or volunteering at uh Some point in time Uh in the program activities This counts the same as money And that's what we're saying that the community has given Uh last year give four The in-kind responsibilities Of a community action program was increased From twenty percent to forty percent Which I felt that was a Not well it wasn't very appealing to me Because then when you yeah When you try to take a program That you uh funded at a level of almost two million dollars And you're going into the community and asking for forty percent match share Interviewer: Good luck 847: You just don't get that Interviewer: Really 847: Uh then the auditors for the Community service administration {NW} And they're extremely rigid And they had assistants that would do this {NW} Now it's back down to twenty percent Because people just couldn't meet some meet their quarters they'd match Uh all the federal government did And the community service administration I feel like what they did is make a bunch of people that are liars They forced people to lie {NW} You know here in {D: questionary times it's hard as hell} {NW} To get anybody to give you a dime or a penny And when you start going out looking for Four hundred or five hundred thousand dollars What for services and goods Interviewer: Really 847: In a program You're going to just be banging your head upside brick walls somewhere Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And I think they recognize that It's impossible to do it Even though we did come up with some portion of it sometimes In-kind reports like uh every company in town who After well this is uh February they expect it the first {NW} Well that means in the middle of February The books for March will be out like uh {D: Commercial} {X} Well Now in this continent is the distribution company And what they do is they go to news stands and they bring these books in it's there on the front cover And the book's perfectly good So what we've been doing is picking up {NS} Twenty thirty thousand dollars for books Every month and distributed them to like nursing homes Uh senior citizen centers Uh county jail boys home Uh and in outlets uh like down in McKinney {D: Joaquin} Um we sold it to them there because It was current reading material Every now and then we'd sort of get them A lot of Pornographic {NW} Material in I can think of one time Interviewer: {NW} 847: When Interviewer: Into the boys club that's really 847: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 847: So uh that was quite comical too you know Interviewer: Yeah I guess 847: Because some of this stuff went to uh {NW} Went down to the county jail Interviewer: {NW} 847: You can about imagine how Just locked up for all this time Interviewer: Oh yeah 847: Pornographic #1 Material # Interviewer: #2 Oh that's right # 847: #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # That's pretty funny 847: So that was a little bit of comedy involved there Interviewer: What kind of advisory council does the is the {X} Do they volunteer or are they paid 847: They volunteer Interviewer: Uh-huh where are the site centers today 847: Okay we have centers that are located {NW} In now sales pitches strategically located Interviewer: {NW} 847: In each area of the city Interviewer: {NW} 847: Uh Interviewer: {NW} 847: We have the one in {X} That's located uh In the Educational building of the Saint John Baptist Church Saint John is the largest Baptist black church in town {NW} Uh but now we don't have any religious affiliation with the church {NW} As a matter of fact we can't even locate Any of our program activities At a {NS} Building or sanctuary where a crucifix may be You know that's uh I wouldn't say that I like that because {NS} Uh the reason why I don't like it {NW} Is that I genuinely believe that {NW} Without some Religious Without religion We don't have very much to hope for in this country {NW} And then well federal programs let an atheist like Madalyn O'Hair Interviewer: Oh yeah 847: You know take prayer out of schools {NS} Uh and we look at Social programs where people need all the spiritual guidance that they can possibly {NW} That you can possibly muster to them And it's a matter of dealing with their spirit tangible things poor people really don't deal with {NW} Because they don't have very much hope of having more than what they do Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: So you've got to deal with their spirit a little bit I'm not going to preach this {X} #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # {NW} 847: But uh but we don't have any religious affiliation We supposedly have no political affiliation {NW} All we're supposed to be doing is uh Motivating people for social reasons And happen to motivate them to Bring about some social change Interviewer: Yeah 847: But I genuinely believe and I know factually That there can be no social change without political #1 Change # Interviewer: #2 Right # That's true 847: That the process of social change starts with politics Interviewer: Exactly 847: So then it's like uh I sit here and I say we have no political affiliation {NW} We don't in a sense of speaking Have any {X} Politics that are played {NS} Uh people in the community on these advisor committees {NS} They play big politics to get what they want out of this program {NW} Even after threatening to have the facilities closed boycotting {NW} Whatever they might think that they're going to break into To scare you into Providing various things for them {NW} {X} Is that It's not a real Speedy process politically in the community Because see you have Your power groups out there what I call them power brokers {NW} Your power brokers come up And then they become very political in their community Um {NS} And you end up with two or three people actually running that whole community Interviewer: Yeah 847: That I don't like because then that's not what the process is supposed to be. {NW} I complained about it But then I found very few people who will listen And listen well enough to me to say let's do something about it. Interviewer: Yeah 847: Because then they're politically minded They're political minded too . Interviewer: Yeah sure 847: So Interviewer: it's human nature. 847: Yeah you know like you just have to be a political animal nowadays. Interviewer: Yeah 847: And those persons who are not Ain't got a lot of problems. You know and I have a lot of problems sometimes I don't like politics I believe if you have something to do you do it {NW} And if there's a group of people that's out there that don't like what you're doing You tell them to go to hell You know Interviewer: And sometimes that isn't easy 847: No it's not easy as a matter of fact it can be what You would consider As being social and political suicide Um I just don't believe that uh We could have uh Very good programs without politics I think sometimes it's overplayed um {NW} You look at your city government Or your local governments They don't want these people to bother them They don't want people coming down there and disrupting city council or County commissioner's court. You know they don't want that. So then programs have been good Because then we can get a bunch of people down here on meeting nights. {NW} Like when we have a board meetings once a month Which is executive board meetings And advisory committees meet once a month in the areas And everything comes in here and I'll explain that to you in a minute. {NW} They can come in and raise all the hell they want to {NW} It's like ventilating {NW} You give them something to let off that steam there and they let off the steam {NW} Here in this program Because it wouldn't be tolerated Going out there into city hall Interviewer: Yeah 847: Wouldn't be tolerated there at the county commissioner's court Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Even though we've always had a a few activists to go down and raise hell every now and then {NW} Like Al {B} And two or three other people Interviewer: Yeah 847: But you can see how many times they'll in jail And then that they can come down and have a board you see a board He you know he does what he wants to do He'll raise all the hell he wants to {NW} And people sit here and accept it Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know because usually he's got something good to say Even if you don't want to hear it it's usually good what he's got to say {NW} But Interviewer: I bet he's a really interesting fellow 847: Quite interesting He's a very unique person tell you how unique he is {NS} I used to be his bus boy {NW} When I was in high school he was working at safari steakhouse {NW} And Interviewer: Huh 847: After that we wore turbans Interviewer: Yeah 847: And {NS} It was the {D: Sugar ray} Went to turban fight {X} We knew him very well {NW} Uh Then the next fight Al had everybody Including the man who owned the place mainly {B} That sugar ray Was going to lose {X} {NW} He bet all his money he was going to make For a month To the man who owned the place {NS} All the waiters {NS} He didn't pay anybody because he said it was a fixed fight He said I have seven children at home Interviewer: {NW} 847: And you people {C:interviewer laughing} Supposed to be my friends I will work for everything My children are going to starve {NW} Interviewer: That's funny 847: He begged and pleaded and cried in the dining room {NW} Felt sorry for him Because he couldn't pay it {NW} Interviewer: {NW} That is funny 847: Then then his next Mister Jones Interviewer: {NW} 847: He almost cried he said now he said anybody but you Interviewer: {NW} 847: Could not get away with this with me Interviewer: That is a 847: He said if I ever hear of you begging for my job again I'm going to fire you Interviewer: {NW} What was he doing was he was he a waiter 847: Yeah he was a waiter he was the best waiter he was one of the best waiters I've ever seen He was uh What you would call A waiter from an old school he did complete silver service all the time Interviewer: Mm 847: {X} The table A lady couldn't light a cigarette on his station {NW} He kept ash trays clean he kept your water glass filled Interviewer: Yep 847: And everybody always had ice in their glass I hate to go to a place and you get Interviewer: Yeah water 847: Water Interviewer: Tea and the 847: And no ice Interviewer: {X} 847: And I raise all kind of hell about that and people look at you like you're crazy because {NW} Most people don't care Interviewer: They don't care yeah 847: But then {NW} Ice water is supposed to have ice in it Iced tea Interviewer: Iced tea 847: Is supposed to have ice Interviewer: Ice in it I did work as a waitress {X} {D: Before it tells you about} {X} 847: Yeah Interviewer: Scary {NW} But listen I made good money there they paid me a lot better than the academic world 847: Yeah that's good money Interviewer: But these things like the crumbs off the table I mean you got to be good before you do all that 847: Yeah you got to be good But he was good {NW} I remember one night out he came Flying through the dining room {NW} Has this big tray of steaks {NW} And a flaming shish kabob in one hand Interviewer: {NW} 847: And a lady Hits the cigarette and he's you know coming all the way from the uh Sting or from the broiler {NW} Allow me please ma'am allow me and the lady Probably thought She was going to burn Interviewer: {NW} 847: With the shish kabob Interviewer: {NW} 847: All the customers are turning around because that's {C: interviewer laughing} And he's going ya know I just want to light your cigarette Interviewer: {NW} 847: And his lighter wouldn't work He stood there for a good three minutes trying to make his lighter work Interviewer: Oh no 847: Finally threw his lighter all the way back to the back {NW} Pulled out a pack of matches and said these damn Mechanical things that men are making a bunch a book a matches better {NW} Anyway the way he said it everybody just thought he's real comical Interviewer: Yeah that's funny 847: Uh one night Took about all his good service {X} {NS} He was getting {X} Interviewer: {NW} Have 847: Uh there was a fellow that {NS} This man really had him a profit that night There was a party at six And this cat was a big shot you know Waiter this waiter that bus boy come here you know and Al was really Moving giving him good service Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know Interviewer: Good tip if you 847: But he didn't tip {NS} He left something like {NS} It wasn't fifty cents I don't imagine Might have been sixty cents {NW} But it was mostly and it was You know not a couple of quarters {NW} It was pennies and nickels and a couple of dimes Interviewer: Ooh insult 847: And Interviewer: Talk about getting Fried 847: Well Al came he just knew he had a good tip Interviewer: #1 Yeah ten dollars # 847: #2 {X} # You're a very good waiter and Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know but he was just jiving you know {NW} Al came and looked at his kidding Well we always use a little brass tray out there for kidding And uh He said oh come on buster give me my money {NW} I said I don't have your money I said that's all this punk left for you Because I- I said I don't play I never play with the waiter's money I asked him you know is this a matter of business And uh He said I don't know why I asked you that he said I know you don't play with my money He said where's that cheap ass little b I said he's out there paying his bill {NW} And you know like {NS} There was always a line of people coming in and a line of people going out Interviewer: Yeah 847: Well he caught him just as he was at the register And Al tapped him he said oh sir He said oh yeah hi waiter what is it {NW} He said you left this Interviewer: {NW} 847: And he says uh oh no uh {NW} That's for you Al said oh no I cannot accept this this is yours did you leave this {NW} He said yeah I left it He said but that's your tip you know {NW} He said no I can't take this Interviewer: {NW} 847: And the man had the most bewildered look but he had a smart look on his face too and he says to the standing people in the lobby This fool nigger here don't even know That this is a tip Interviewer: Right 847: He says this is your T-I-P You have a tip for your service And Al said I'll tell you what {NW} If this is all that you had to leave for me {NW} You take it and put it in the church because you need t to go to church And not come out. A- -nd threw the thing at his feet {C: interviewer laughing} And the tray bounced up to the floor and all the change just went everywhere Interviewer: I love it 847: And {NW} Interviewer: That's fantastic 847: It shocked everybody {NS} Interviewer: I'll tell you there's been times where I wanted to do the same 847: So he just knew he was going to be fired Interviewer: Yeah 847: He started pulling off his turban and his turban looked about twelve feet of {NW} Muslin gauze around your head Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: He just pulled it off and was streaming you know Interviewer: {NW} 847: From the lobby back to the kitchen Interviewer: {NW} 847: And uh the manager Came back and said Al why did you do that And he said tell you what said you know you don't really pay me that much for working here {NW} He said I give this place good service because I want to be tipped for my service {NW} And he said people who are too cheap to tip should not come in here and expect service {NW} He said they need to go to a cafeteria Where there's a food line and pick up their food on a tray Interviewer: Right 847: And the man said and the manager told him said you know what I agree with you whole-heartedly {NW} But please don't do that in the lobby anymore {NS} Because if you do I'm going to fire you Interviewer: {NW} 847: He said go back to work Interviewer: {X} 847: #1 Yeah # Interviewer: #2 Lobby # {NW} 847: But people uh you know the people in the lobby really understood Interviewer: Yeah 847: Because most of the people that came in there This was out in Preston Forest shopping center {NW} And that was before that area was really built up Interviewer: Yeah 847: And all the people that lived in there during that time Were richer everybody there was rich Interviewer: All your #1 Doctors # 847: #2 And # Interviewer: And lawyers and inherited wealth 847: That's right Interviewer: There 847: You know and so {NW} All the people came in there except #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 847: That's right Interviewer: {NW} 847: One fellow that uh mister {B} who owned the T-V shop Stereo center next door {NW} To safari Was the cheapest man ever {NS} Uh we only sold hamburger steaks {NS} Uh To like when them boy scouts would come in you know like two or three times Interviewer: Hmm 847: A month you know like kids clubs boy scouts Y-M-C-A {NW} And we would always serve them the chopped steaks Which was cheaper than serving you know sirloins and T bones and stuff {NW} And but old {B} Would come in there And order {NS} One fillet small with six ounce {NW} Or an eight ounce Mostly back then was eight ounce {NW} And a salad for two {NW} He would get full off of salad Because it was free {NW} And you know like we served a salad on a thick Oblong disc that looks like a little canoe but it was a big thing {NW} And a salad for two was a great big thing back then you know {NW} And he'd eat all that salad Eat all the garlic bread and the toast that you get free Interviewer: It was free 847: And even you know coffee was free you know the first cup you pay a buck He'd get at least four cups of coffee Salad for two enough bread for four people And eat that one little cheap steak Interviewer: Yeah yeah 847: So one night he came in there And Mister Jones was there and we had been telling him about mister {B} {NS} {X} {B} Had a standard tip it was fifty cents Interviewer: {NW} Oh that's {NW} 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} I think I could have killed the person whoever she gave it to you know 847: Well Interviewer: You're with him not serving him 847: Then nobody ever wanted mister {B} They even let a bus boy serve him {X} Interviewer: Yeah 847: One night he came in and we were serving boy scouts {NW} And he wanted {NS} His one fillet we didn't have any left then had sold out {NS} He says well tell get me a Chopped steak We don't have but one he brought his girlfriend with him {NW} Do you know he was so cheap They ordered one chopped steak a salad for two and two plates Interviewer: {X} {NW} And then I think well leave him {NW} 847: #1 That was # Interviewer: #2 Oh that's # Horrible 847: That was the last straw Interviewer: That is horrible 847: The waiter went and told Mister Jones come here Mister Jones {NW} He said you see that man I'm not gonna wait him {X} {NW} He's a friend of mine {NW} He said that that friend said to us {NW} Order the chopped steak Two plates and a salad for two And he has that woman friend of his Interviewer: And now he wants more coffee 847: He just wants. He's sitting there {NW} Eating all the salad All the bread and drinking all the coffee And they're having one chopped steak in between the two of them {NW} Mister Jones almost went through the ceiling {NW} He went over there said {X} Let me tell you one thing Interviewer: {NW} 847: He said if you can't afford To eat in my place. Don't come in my place Interviewer: Yeah 847: He said I don't come over to your place and ask for high fives or discounts {NW} Interviewer: {NW} Did he stop coming in 847: No he didn't stop coming in Interviewer: Oh 847: And he didn't stop eating chopped steaks either But he didn't ever pull that trick anymore you know like Interviewer: #1 Yeah # 847: #2 {X} # Interviewer: At least he didn't with the chopped steak 847: And that was that was that was That was a living end to me And the man was rich Interviewer: Yeah yeah I believe it I believe it and what we did over at I I had been working a {X} Place now and what we do over there we get some of them for a down time initiative which is good And that's only the cake So what we get and these people would come in from the university and 847: Yeah Interviewer: And uh urging him {X} you know and they never heard him say until they got here {X} And they didn't know you're supposed to tip ten percent much less fifteen 847: No {NS} Interviewer: And you can tell it's formed right off cause they order the steak well done 847: Right off Interviewer: Yeah and they'll take their cowboy hats off you know and I just go oh god when I get one of those another one {X} 847: I I was in a place uh {NW} Oh one day last week {NS} {D: Until the countriest people came in there} They had You ever see people so filthy when they eat Interviewer: Oh yeah oh 847: You know Interviewer: Gross 847: The cracker wrappers Interviewer: It's like 847: All over the table Interviewer: Yeah 847: You know cracker crumbs all over the table You know bits and pieces of lettuce all around the table {C:interviewer talking} Interviewer: {NW} 847: They were the nastiest bunch of people And they didn't tip anything they just kept the waitresses running back and forth well they Other reductions I don't {X} Interviewer: Oh yeah 847: They were rough rowdy people in the first place Interviewer: Yeah 847: {NW} But they were those people were really gross so I said but I just don't understand {NW} Why people like this would even come now when they walk in a place It seems like the decor would rub off on them You know that was the you know Interviewer: Usually it does for most people 847: And when you got something coming other ways people cut in front of you But it takes all kind {NW} Interviewer: Well I'll tell you they got steak now too 847: Yeah Interviewer: Hey I'm going to ask you about farm stuff {NW} 847: Yeah we we did we talk about the farm stuff last week Interviewer: Yeah we talked about some 847: It wasn't last week it was Monday Interviewer: Seems like a week 847: Yeah it sure does Interviewer: Um okay so our for we were talking about Talking about farm animals if I remember last uh {NS} Talking about pigs and chickens and geese and and your grandfather's rooster 847: Yeah Interviewer: With your grandfather 847: Yeah Interviewer: I told my husband 847: The one he ate #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 Yeah # What what about uh oh you said everybody had a milk cow 847: Yeah Interviewer: Um what would you call that place around the barn where people would let the cows and stuff walk around usually fenced in {NS} 847: Cow pen Interviewer: Okay uh where do you milk the cow usually 847: Use the next kind of barn Interviewer: Okay and now you grow cotton out in West Texas um 847: Cotton and grain Interviewer: Yeah what do you know about growing cotton like seasonally what do you have to do you know do you remember 847: Yeah Interviewer: Someone somebody else {X} 847: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Okay 847: {NW} In the West Texas they started planting cotton {NS} Oh I guess you'd say uh in late spring Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And {NS} Interviewer: Hmm 847: The crops You get a warm crop of cotton You know it was hard to get two crops of cotton a year Uh well they can get it out there I think Some places you can't get two crops of cotton {NW} But uh Harvest season for cotton in West Texas is usually Starts in October {NW} Uh after the harvest for the cotton October November And say early December Fore the uh uh first cold spell sets in All of us should be gone by then So you have about a three month jamming period {NW} Uh for cotton Interviewer: I remember that white stuff in the air 847: Yeah the lint Yeah that lint from the cotton gins Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: All over the place Interviewer: Yeah 847: Um in O'Donnell the smallest town was I remember there was so much cotton During cotton season that they had eight gins going Interviewer: {NW} 847: Twenty-four hours Interviewer: Wow 847: That meant there were a lot of migrant workers that came in blacks browns {NW} All over the state I remember people used to come from Dallas Fort Worth all in this area go to West Texas Harvest cotton people used to get truck loads Interviewer: Where'd they live {X} 847: Well Um Usually on the farm uh If it was a large farm Uh they had like uh What I call tenement rows You know and uh people were just stacked and packed in their Migrant work shacks uh very few people had Enough money to {X} And there were no such things as hotels and motels {NW} You know like there were no holiday inns and all that business Interviewer: {NW} 847: #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Right # 847: You know you had uh There was one hotel in O'Donnell and there was a resident hotel where where most of the people who stayed in the hotel lived in O'Donnell And they served I remember that place they served Meals there you know like you get room and board And it was always full during the cotton picking season Well after December January February Even in March They started plowing the fields under You know to start the planting You know I think they had to plant plow first they went back and planted later Interviewer: Yeah 847: Um Down here when I say down here In central Texas And south Texas Cotton crops usually came out During the summer And people uh {NS} Picked cotton Literally they picked the cotton out of the bowls Interviewer: By hand 847: And yeah In West Texas What they call pulling bowls you pull the whole bowl off Reason why is they wanted to get the cotton in quick {X} Uh and it takes longer well of course theres {X} It takes you longer to fill up a sack If you picked the cotton than if you do if you pull it out of bowls Interviewer: Yeah yeah 847: Uh now why that happened like that I don't know Interviewer: Huh 847: But picking and pulling You know {NS} Picking cotton and pulling cotton is different Interviewer: I didn't know that 847: Yeah Interviewer: {X} Well did you ever do that 847: Uh I seem to remember going for fields Once or twice Uh That wasn't uh {NS} {X} And I really didn't have to pick cotton I wanted to pick cotton {NS} Uh The reason why I didn't have to pick cotton you know why I didn't have to Interviewer: School kids 847: Yeah my Interviewer: Yeah {NW} 847: But I w- you know I- you know I Interviewer: Upper crust 847: I wanted to pull cotton {NS} Because The other kids were doing it And it was sort of like Getting in to being with the people Interviewer: Yeah 847: They resented the fact that uh You know kids have funny ways of doing things {NW} They made it sound like it was real exciting pulling cotton well it wasn't exciting to me once I got out there Interviewer: Probably wasn't to them either 847: {X} My salary I probably made fifteen cents for a whole day's work {NW} Very disgusting Interviewer: {NW} 847: After a few days of going out there I told my mom I couldn't go back {NW} And she wouldn't let me go back but it was a lot of fun My brother and I- I remember my brother was out there then and uh We would pack real big lunches you know great big sacks of food {NW} And eat all day long Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know Interviewer: {NW} 847: #1 And lay out # Interviewer: #2 That was # The fun part 847: That was the fun part Interviewer: {NW} #1 The bad part was the # 847: #2 So # Interviewer: Picking cotton 847: Uh I remember this man his name was mister {B} A lot of kids seven eight nine kids And it was share cropping And his kids Did most of the work On the farm where he was share cropping Interviewer: Hmm 847: And I just think he had a bunch of kids to keep them working so he could keep living well Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: But uh Interviewer: Probably did 847: He told my mom That he didn't want my brother and I to come back out there anymore {NW} Because we kept his kids from working Interviewer: Oh 847: He had a daughter I remember this girl her name was {X} She could pull a thousand pounds of cotton a day Interviewer: {NW} I've never heard of that fast 847: Oh yeah {NW} He had one son his name was Joe Joe could pull up to fifteen hundred pounds of cotton a day Interviewer: {X} 847: And you can think about how light cotton is Interviewer: Yeah 847: And dragging a sack through a field and picking up fifteen hundred pounds of it That's a lot of work Interviewer: That is that's why 847: That's almost going non-stop on your knees and that's your back bent {NW} And you're talking about Something that'll kill you Interviewer: That must be a strong kid 847: Oh they have to be Interviewer: Either that or dead after a couple years 847: And I used to wonder why that oldest boy looked so old when he was about seventeen or eighteen Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: He worked himself almost to death Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh tell me what kind of fences did you have on the farm now what kind you had 847: Uh barbed wire Interviewer: How'd they make barbed wire fences 847: Yeah I know but I can't tell you {NS} Uh I even know {NS} I did know the fellow who came up with the first barbed wire fence His name at least Interviewer: Yeah 847: Uh Barbed wire was uh originally Thought of as a means of keeping cattle In a specified location {NW} You know that was the purpose of barbed wire And {NS} The wire was strung with Little barbs on the end and like uh The wire's twisted And like that You want to get that space In the wire These barbs put in and twisted And as they twist around You get the barb they'll come out and {NS} Interviewer: I hate when it stops in the middle of an interview lost an hour of tape {X} So you know if you look down there and it's not turning let me know I've got a lot of tape here 847: Okay Interviewer: Um did you have fences around the houses like 847: No there were usually uh {NS} Cedar post fence {NS} Uh {NS} Some people had uh The uh board fence When I say board fence It was uh Oh about six by eight six by ten boards Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Um And boards like that there was usually rich people who had fences like that but not many folk You know they could put up a fence A lot of big spread that way But that was usually just for show When you go out in the fields they always had barbed wire fences Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Uh of course around there uh like in a corral for horses Um {NS} {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And then there were corrals also And a corral was always made with uh Post fence Uh And the reason why they didn't put {NS} Barbed wire I imagine around a corral was because they usually had some expensive Uh cattle either expensive horses in there And uh {NS} Horses Sometimes are very contiguous you know they'll kick down a fence Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: And they'll even run into a barbed wire fence and cut them all up and You know that uh You can't take them to markets like that the hides are never good Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: They look bad you know people like you know So uh Interviewer: Um is there a difference between a corral and a and a what you call it a 847: A cow pen Interviewer: Yeah is there a difference or are they the same thing or 847: Well a corral is usually larger. You can get like a have a herd You know I want to say a herd Ten fifteen twenty Head of cattle or horses in there You know uh And that was usually a place where they did keep that better stock in the corral Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: You know Interviewer: Um 847: oh either you put them in a corral you can get 'em and take me to market Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Oh yeah getting {X} {NW} Now um {NS} Did you ever hear anybody call cows come in from the pasture {NS} 847: Mm-hmm Interviewer: How did they call the cows how did they what did they say to call a cow 847: I don't remember {NW} Usually about feeding time As I remember there seems to have always been a lead cow Around and that cow had a bell around The neck {NW} And these other Cattle would follow You know you got them in that way Uh {NW} There were some people who had Dogs that were trained to go out and get the cattle Interviewer: Uh-huh uh-huh 847: And they get the bell I call them bell cow Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: You know the dog was trained you know like and {NS} You can lead a {NS} cattle anywhere they're real stupid animals You know Interviewer: Yeah 847: Yeah they're dumb Interviewer: Dumb 847: They're real dumb Interviewer: {NW} 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} 847: You know a dog and a bell could lead them over a cliff Interviewer: {NW} 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} I've seen people go out in in their pickup trucks and just honk the horn you know until the cows come out 847: Yeah you know they get you know they're here They'll get used to certain sounds you know Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: Uh You blow a horn and you know that's right go in the pick up and just honk the horn And that bell cow would usually Head off and toward you know the horn And particularly you know like putting out salt And and hay in in the field they'd come to {NS} Interviewer: Um what about chickens you ever heard anybody call chickens 847: Mm-hmm Interviewer: How do you call chickens 847: {NS} No really Interviewer: Oh come on 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} I got to see everybody else do it 847: {NW} Interviewer: The only one who wouldn't call the chickens was a sixteen-year-old girl 847: {NW} Interviewer: You're saying {NS} See this is how you call the chickens {X} speaker#4: Okay {X} 847: Okay You want to hear me call the chickens Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Here chick chick chick Interviewer: {NW} 847: You know you're making people call the chicken Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: That's what Interviewer: {X} 847: Do it Interviewer: Call the chickens chick chick chick chick 847: {NW} Interviewer: he's better at it you know speaker#4: I used to milk cows and sheep and everything else {X} Interviewer: Oh you better be next on my list 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} That's funny 847: The the calling chickens is funny {NW} Interviewer: {NW} That's going to be all over the office this morning 847: {NW} Interviewer: {NW} Okay let me so uh how do you call a {X} Uh well let's see {X} {NS} Oh I got well these are similar um what is what is that gentle noise that a cow makes during feeding time {NS} Now I didn't have a word for a lot of this stuff since I grew up with cows so if you don't have a word for this stuff 847: I don't have a word for that one Interviewer: Okay uh a noise that's made by a calf when it's being weaned 847: Don't have that one either Interviewer: Okay uh we didn't either uh {NS} See already did that one uh if you're going to feed the chickens and the turkeys and the geese and all that stuff do you have any one name for all of them like you say you're going to go out and feed the {NS} 847: No I didn't know one name for all of them Interviewer: Okay uh oh how do you call a pig {NS} I wouldn't call pigs myself I'd ignore it 847: Uh Interviewer: Some people call pigs 847: Uh just like the razor backs do at the football game you know {NW} I can't do it now but it's sooie pig Interviewer: Okay 847: You know Interviewer: That'll make it easier for you 847: Yeah {NW} Interviewer: Uh let's see oh how would you call a horse {NS} 847: Hmm {NS} I don't remember that one Interviewer: Um what would you say to a mule or a horse to make them go right or left like say on a team you know and you were pulling them over 847: Uh Well To make 'em go right or left {NS} All you do is pull on the reign Interviewer: Mm-hmm 847: Right or left Interviewer: Okay 847: But then Standard fare is giddy-up Interviewer: Okay alright #1 Right # 847: #2 Like # You know Interviewer: You say that if they're already going or if they're stopped or 847: If they're going and you want them to move faster Interviewer: Okay 847: And they was fond of that you know a gentle kick or a slap in the butt or something {NW} And giddy-up Interviewer: Okay 847: And they Interviewer: What did you say if you wanted them to stop 847: Whoa Interviewer: Okay 847: Whoa mule like my old man used to {NW} Used to use a mule to plow Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And uh I can remember him telling his mules whoa mule Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And those mules would not stop sometime he was a little bit of a skinny man The mules could go running off With his plow and him {NW} Interviewer: {X} {NS} Had a horse run off with me one time and uh galloping right and there wasn't anything I could do {X} and it was coming to the fence and the horse came up to the fence like right then it made a ninety degree turn {NW} Because I didn't turn I went on 847: You went the other way Interviewer: I went I hit the fence and then I fell in what was probably the only cactus patch in the county oh 847: I bet you that hurt didn't it Interviewer: Oh oh I can still remember how it felt pulling out my feet {NW} 847: That was the only reason why I was always scared of horses Is because {NS} {NS} I know people that horses ran away with Interviewer: Yeah 847: And you can't get off the darn thing you're too scared to jump off Interviewer: That's right yeah I considered it I never considered anything but I think I can just jump off you know and I looked down at how fast the ground was going by and I went no 847: Not for me I don't like horses I {NS} I still don't like them I was frightened of a horse when I was a kid Interviewer: Uh-huh 847: And I've never been on a horse again Interviewer: What happened 847: You know like he trotted off with me Didn't go that fast but it was just enough for me to know {NW} And I can rem- That horse looked like he was twelve feet tall you know as a little kid {NS} looking up at the horse and the fellow putting me up on it {X} End of tape