Interviewer:  Um, you'd say everyone around here likes to, what, horses?
863:  Ride.
Interviewer:  And yesterday he?
863:  Rode a horse.
Interviewer:  And I have never?
863:  Ridden a horse.
Interviewer:  And if you couldn't stay on, you'd say, you fell, what, the horse?
863:  I fell off the horse.
Interviewer:  And, say a child went to sleep in bed, and woke up and found himself on the floor in the morning?
863:  He fell off the bed.
Interviewer:  And, the things you put on the horse's feet, are called the?
863:  Horseshoe?
Interviewer:  What about a game you play with those?
863:  {NW} Horseshoes too.
Interviewer:  Do you ever see it played with rings instead of horseshoes?
863:  Well, it was a ring toss game but uh, but um it was different. It was, and it was much more modern with plastic and that sort of thing. Same thing, it's just the stake in the ground on two of 'em apart, #1 you know, and #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you throw the horseshoe.
Interviewer:  And the part of the horse's feet that you put the shoes on?
863:  Hoof.
Interviewer:  And, the plural?
863:  Hooves.
Interviewer:  And, the male sheep is called a?
863:  Ram.
Interviewer:  That word was alright to use to
863:  It is for me.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Uh, and a ewe, you know, but these are, you know, having been brought up in a cattle raising
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  family, uh, this, it never occurred to me whether it was good or bad.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see? Uh, if you got into a more genteel family that, uh, good Victorians that were more further removed from the actual raising and breeding of these animals, uh, you go back and see {C: tape skips} where some of the ladies might have but then they tittered about showing there ankles and that sort of
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 thing too. #
Interviewer:  Um, what people raised sheep for? Would be?
863:  Well in this part of the country it was to make everybody else mad. {NW} We didn't like sheep raisers but they raised 'em for wool.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, really, nobody every eats mutton around here maybe some spring lamb, you know, you can get a leg of lamb or lamb chops but mutton is not a term that anyone ever uses here. I had my first mutton when I went to England.
Interviewer:  The animals you get pork from would be?
863:  Hogs.
Interviewer:  When they're first born you call 'em?
863:  Pigs, I guess. Piglets.
Interviewer:  #1 And when they're bigger? #
863:  #2 Little shoats. # Uh, {NW} I think shoats, isn't that a #1 good term? Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # What size is a shoat?
863:  Ah, it's a little bit than a little, than a newborn. I, I think it's when they're running around.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Up to, what size?
863:  I don't know, we never very raised many hogs.
Interviewer:  A male hog is called a?
863:  Boar.
Interviewer:  And if you had a pig and you didn't want it to grow up to be a male hog, what would you say you were gonna do to it?
863:  Well, I guess the term would be castrate but I really wouldn't know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Geld is what you do for a horse. I don't know what you do for a, a boar.
Interviewer:  And, if you'd castrated the boar, then it'd be called a?
863:  I don't even know.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the term barrow #1 or borrow? #
863:  #2 Yes. # I suppose that's what it is, I couldn't think of the word though.
Interviewer:  What'd you hear it called?
863:  Barrow.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And the female is called a?
863:  Sow.
Interviewer:  What if she's never had pigs?
863:  I really don't know.
Interviewer:  And, the stiff hairs that a hog has on its back?
863:  Bristle.
Interviewer:  And the big teeth?
863:  Tusks.
Interviewer:  And, what'd you put the food in for the hog? Would be called a?
863:  Hmm. I don't really know. I used to have uh, bins and, and troughs and things, I guess trough would be what it would be in. Actually, what they did was throw it over the fence {NW} and it went on the ground and into the wallow and what have you. {NW} But yes, I think it would be a pig trough, wouldn't it? If you were having 'em, keeping 'em?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  If you were raising them professionally, you know, other than just letting them run loose or keeping them in that pigsty.
Interviewer:  Any special name for a hog that's grown up wild?
863:  They used to call them Piney Woods Rooters around here. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, say if you had some horses and mules and cows and so forth, they were getting hungry, you'd say you had to feed the?
863:  The stock.
Interviewer:  What if you're talking about hens and turkeys and geese?
863:  Well, you can probably just say feed the chickens, all of 'em, but poultry.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And if it was time to feed the stock and do your work, you'd say it was?
863:  Chores.
Interviewer:  Or it's what time? Would you call it chore time or feeding time or water time?
863:  Well, of course, if the other chore was in feeding, you might say feeding time.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  Among chores used, on the old time farm and even next door to me, they kept a cow and, and one of the things that they used to always relegate to me was to, to churn the butter
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  because they had, they had to get the eggs, you know, and, and gather the eggs and that sort of thing from the chicken house and everybody hated to churn the butter, so it seemed to me that if I wanted them to come out and play sooner, I had to churn the butter.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And in those days it wasn't a, you know, that kind of churning, it was the kind that you turned the crank on.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And it took a long time. Your arm got tired.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And I soon found out that that wasn't the chore I wanted.
Interviewer:  {NW} Um,
863:  But I've seen milk, uh, with the old slapdash method at the
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 churn you know. # Slapdash, slapdash. Nice little rhythm to it.
Interviewer:  {NW} The noise that a calf makes when it's being weaned?
863:  Bawl.
Interviewer:  What about a cow?
863:  They moo.
Interviewer:  And a horse?
863:  Neighs.
Interviewer:  Or the gentle sound? That they make?
863:  Nicker.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Do y'all have many horses around here?
863:  Oh yes. And I grew up with horses, and so did my children. We still have some horses that are retired down there.
Interviewer:  What kind? Quarter-
863:  Quarter horses, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Good ol' ranch horse, huh?
863:  All working horses and her one quarter horse that she used to ride in shows was trained for barrel racing and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  western pleasure class but, but uh, no walking horses or saddle horses, just uh, just the ol' quarter horses.
Interviewer:  Say if you wanted to get a cow in out of the pasture. How would you call her? Do you ever hear
863:  No, I'm sure they can and I've heard soo pig and all that sort of thing but uh, or here bossy or soo bossy and all that sort of stuff but, actually, most of those cows knew exactly when it was time to come in and eat and be milked and they came you #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 just didn't have, #
863:  all you had to do was open the gate.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear a special call for a calf?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  What about horses?
863:  No, I don't think I've heard a special call for 'em. I'm sure they had one but um, again, they always knew
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  when they were, when they were, course they always knew when you wanted to saddle 'em too and then they disappeared.
Interviewer:  {NW} Do you ever, um, hear a special call for sheep?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  What
863:  Not around here.
Interviewer:  What about for pigs? It just?
863:  Soo pig. But that, that's, the only reason I even know that one, really, is because that's what they always used to holler at the O-U games. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 At the what? #
863:  #2 Know, # {NW} O-U. Oklahoma University. #1 Texas #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  and Oklahoma play every year in Dallas, and uh, they're called the Razorbacks, you know,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Arkansas hog. And uh, so that's just, more, a cry that I'm sure was a cry to get the pigs in that they used. Up there, you know. Derogatory, I'm sure.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Except, I think they really use it themselves. Woo pig, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That kind of thing.
Interviewer:  How would you call
863:  But I, I'll tell you, if you want the horses in and you're trying to run 'em in and the same thing with the cattle, it's not a call, it's more the way you drive them in because I've gone into the corral to drive them into the thingy. {NW}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That's the way you do it.
Interviewer:  What would you say to a cow to get her to stand still so you could milk her?
863:  Unprintable. {NW}
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  I don't really know, I, I've milked a cow but uh, she was used to being milked and you didn't have to worry with her, you know?
Interviewer:  What would you say to a horse to get him to turn left or right?
863:  {NW} You mean like gee and haw with a, I don't, you don't say anything to a horse, you rein him you know? #1 He answers #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  the reigns. I've never given him, uh, I've never given a horse oral signals.
Interviewer:  What about to get him started? You'd tell him?
863:  Giddy up.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Giddy up.
Interviewer:  And to stop him?
863:  Whoa.
Interviewer:  And to back him up?
863:  Well, you do that, again, with the signals. My daughter might have some that she spoke to her horse, they understood each other so perfectly but with me it's just reins.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Nearly all of it, sometimes you speak to him but
Interviewer:  How would you call chickens?
863:  Here chick, chick, chick, chick, chick, chick, chick! {C: calling chickens}
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And,
863:  And they, again, are already there, if you have walked out with something in your hand that looks like food,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  they're already there. You don't have to call 'em.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  Um,
863:  They're waiting for you.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The kind of meat that you can pour, you can use for boiling with grease?
863:  You mean, like hog jaws, or something like that?
Interviewer:  Or the salted pork?
863:  Salt pork, yeah.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Salt bacon.
Interviewer:  And, when you cut the side of a hog, you call that the?
863:  The side? That's a loin of pork, I, I'm, I'm not sure what you're talking about?
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a side of bacon or?
863:  Oh yeah.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Oh yes. I've heard of side of bacon that's a, that's a particular #1 if it's #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  the, it's the whole bacon that's not yet been sliced.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And the edge of the bacon that you cut off?
863:  That's probably the salt pork section
Interviewer:  #1 What, #
863:  #2 or the, #
Interviewer:  #1 it's actually the #
863:  #2 or the, um, #
Interviewer:  the skin of the animal. You'd call
863:  Oh that. The rind, you talking bout?
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  And, nowadays the kind of meat that you buy already sliced?
863:  Bacon.
Interviewer:  And, a person who kills and sells meat? Would be a?
863:  Butcher, I guess. #1 Except #
Interviewer:  #2 And #
863:  very few butchers kill 'em anymore, they're killed at the abattoir or the packinghouse, you #1 see? #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  You've now, {X} that you've gotten it departmentalized, the butcher used to do it all. Now he, it's not, it's already killed before it gets to what we call a butcher.
Interviewer:  {NW} Mm-hmm.
863:  Butcher cuts it up but, you know, with modern world, the packer and the, what have you, but anyway, butcher would have been the old term.
Interviewer:  If meat's been kept too long and it doesn't taste right, you'd say that it's?
863:  Rancid.
Interviewer:  Or? It's done what?
863:  Spoiled. I would think I would say it's gone rancid.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I might say it's spoiling.
Interviewer:  What?
863:  Gone bad. #1 That could be it. #
Interviewer:  #2 What inside # parts of the hog would you eat?
863:  Well, of course, you'd take the intestines and stuff them in it's sausage.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, people do eat pork liver. Uh, I used to buy a lot for my cat. And uh, I don't eat all the exotic parts. I've never been fond of any of the things like brains and pig's feet and all that sort of stuff.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of, um, something else made out of the, intestines?
863:  Tripe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Mm-hmm. I don't eat it.
Interviewer:  What about chit?
863:  Well, chitterlings is not internal. Chitterlings is the, the fat, you know, and the skin has been fried.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, it puffs up with the chitterlings I think.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of anything called Haslet or
863:  Cracklings, yeah. Or what?
Interviewer:  Haslet or harslet.
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, after you kill a hog, what can you make with the meat from its head?
863:  Hog's head cheese, which is really brains, isn't it?
Interviewer:  You don't care for that, huh?
863:  {NW} I don't eat the exotic parts. But, now, when you get to interviewing your old-time negro, you're gonna find they eat everything that didn't #1 eat them #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  first.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about, something you could make out of a liver?
863:  Something you can make out a liver, like a pate, or something like that? You can do that out of goose liver.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about things you can make out of hog liver?
863:  Well, I guess, I don't know of anything that you'd make, just particularly out of a hog's liver, I mean uh, not anything that, like liver sausage out of a calf's liver or a, or a cow liver.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What
863:  Beef liver too.
Interviewer:  What's liver sausage like?
863:  Well, I buy it at the store, and I don't know whether it's beef liver or, or anything else but it's, #1 you know, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  It's a, it's ground up very, very fine and mixed with spices and other fillers and things and then, you, you've seen the, the liver, the kind of
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Liver loafs and things like that they make.
Interviewer:  #1 Do you ever #
863:  #2 Slices. #
Interviewer:  hear of anything called scrapple or cripple or?
863:  Well, scrapple is a Philadelphia dish, largely, and it's mixed with cornmeal. Is it made just out of liver? I really don't know what it's #1 made out of, I know it's just #
Interviewer:  #2 It's not really made out of liver, # No.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Do, do people, uh, is scrapple a word that people would know around here?
863:  #1 No. #
Interviewer:  #2 Is that something #
863:  I never heard of it until I went up, Philadelphia, in fact, #1 I think I'd read #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  about it somewhere but that was something that, uh, that people didn't make down here, that I ever heard of
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Or maybe they called it by another name.
Interviewer:  What about something made out of the blood? Do you ever hear of using?
863:  Yeah but I don't know what it was and it wasn't something that I
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  had ever made at our table. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, you'd say this morning, at seven o'clock, I, what, breakfast?
863:  I ate breakfast?
Interviewer:  And yesterday at that time I had #1 already? #
863:  #2 Ate # breakfast. Or I had already eaten it.
Interviewer:  And, if you were real thirsty you would go over to the sink and pour yourself a?
863:  A glass of water.
Interviewer:  And you'd say the glass fell off the sink and?
863:  Broke?
Interviewer:  So somebody has has?
863:  Broken the glass.
Interviewer:  And you say, I didn't mean to?
863:  Break it.
Interviewer:  And, the first thing you do after milking to get the impurities out?
863:  The first thing you do?
Interviewer:  Like if you pour it through a fine cloth, you say you
863:  Oh, you were going to strain it. Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, say if you had butter that was kept too long, and it didn't taste right?
863:  It goes rancid too.
Interviewer:  What about milk that you, you let it get thick, you call that?
863:  Well, they used to call it clabber down here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And my grandfather, particularly, loved clabber.
Interviewer:  What could you make out of that?
863:  I think you could make, uh, cheese, if it lasted that long, you know, cottage cheese.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, say if someone has a good appetite, you'd say, he sure likes to put away his?
863:  Victuals, by the way, I wouldn't use it, I've heard it. I've read it more than anything else.
Interviewer:  What would you call it?
863:  Well, I wouldn't say, put away his, I'd say he likes to eat.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Or what you'd eat, you'd call?
863:  Well, food.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I've heard victuals but it isn't something I use but I think you'll find that some do.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And food taken between regular meals, you'd call #1 that? #
863:  #2 Snacks. #
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Snacks.
Interviewer:  And, you could take, um, milk or cream and mix that with sugar and nutmeg, and make a sweet liquid. You could pour a?
863:  You mean like an eggnog?
Interviewer:  Or, something you could pour over pudding or pie? You'd call that a? Just any sweet liquid?
863:  Something that you poured over pudding and pie?
Interviewer:  Or pie, yeah. Just
863:  Well, we put ice cream on it but {NW} I don't know what your, uh, it, you sound like you are talking about a sauce but, #1 uh, #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  but I'm not sure that we put a sweet sauce like that over any of ours. I mean, we may put, uh, a sauce that that, uh, made out of, um, honey or, or something, I don't, I, I'm #1 not sure what #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you're, or whipped cream we used but I'm not
Interviewer:  #1 Well, #
863:  #2 sure #
Interviewer:  I just wanted you to say sauce, or gravy, or dip or just, you know, which?
863:  Well, a gravy is something that you make, usually, out of flower and shortening or butter and, uh, water.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  With, perhaps, seasonings in it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Salt and pepper, maybe onion, what have you. But a gravy is, is uh,
Interviewer:  It wouldn't be
863:  #1 It's #
Interviewer:  #2 sweet? #
863:  made out of milk drippings, I mean, it's made out of, when I say shortening, it's usually made out of drippings as we #1 call 'em. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  The, or something like that. And it would not be sweet.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And anything that was sweet would probably have to be a sauce.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Now, you can make a sauce almost like a gravy by, say, making a white sauce, you know, or #1 something like #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  this. And then, course, the French call all of their kind of things sauces, some of which, we would, kinda, classify as gravy but #1 if it's #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  got a fancy French name with it, then it's called a sauce.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. You'd say, if you were real thirsty, you'd say, I, what, two glasses of water?
863:  Drank?
Interviewer:  And you'd say how much have you?
863:  Drunk.
Interviewer:  And we certainly do, what, a lot of water?
863:  Drink a lot of water.
Interviewer:  And, something kid of like a fruit pie, it's got several layers of, maybe, apples and strips of dough in it, you'd call that a?
863:  Probably a cobbler.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called a apple flump or deep apple pie or family
863:  I've heard those terms but I never use them.
Interviewer:  Which terms have you heard?
863:  Cobbler.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You, most of 'em are in I've heard it called apple flump because I've read recipes and things like that for 'em but the same thing, I always heard #1 called a #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  cobbler. Only after I got to be grown lady and was reading recipe books did I come across some of those nice terms.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say if dinner was on the table and the family was standing around the table, you'd tell them to go ahead and?
863:  And eat?
Interviewer:  Or go ahead and, what, down?
863:  Or sit down, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  So you'd say, so then he went ahead and
863:  I won't say sat down, you know, uh, that's never been something I've heard but I've heard it, you know, your, your less educated people #1 will say #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  sit down or sit yourself to the table, or some good nice #1 term like #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  that. I do some of this colloquialism in, in dialects #1 sometimes #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  and I write it sometimes too.
Interviewer:  You'd say, um, then he went ahead and he?
863:  He sat down. I would.
Interviewer:  And everybody had already?
863:  sat down before him.
Interviewer:  And, if you want someone not to wait until the potatoes are passed over to 'em, you'd tell 'em just go ahead and?
863:  Help yourself.
Interviewer:  So he went ahead and?
863:  Helped himself.
Interviewer:  And he's already? What?
863:  Helped himself?
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear people say hope? Or hoped us?
863:  Now hep mostly, hep yo-self. {C: pronouncing "help" as "hep" deliberately}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  See, that, that, again, isn't so much, that's a pronunciation
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  and I can do that too but I will say help. Mine will have an, L, in it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But uh, I have been rather shocked from time to time to visit school on PTA visiting night and go in and hear their English teachers saying, and I'm gonna hep {C: pronunciation} these children, you know, {NW} #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  and I'm sure she helped {C: pronunciation} 'em a lot.
Interviewer:  If you decide not to eat something, you'd say, no thank you I don't?
863:  I don't care for any.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  I'd say I don't want any but I don't care for any is, is quite a well known colloquialism down here, and I use it myself.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. If food's been cooked and served a second time, you'd say that it?
863:  Leftovers.
Interviewer:  Or it's been? What?
863:  Recooked or reheated?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Reheated is what I'd say.
Interviewer:  And, you put food in your mouth and then you begin to?
863:  Chew.
Interviewer:  You say, he couldn't eat that piece of meat because it got stuck in his throat and he couldn't?
863:  Swallow it.
Interviewer:  And, what would you call peas and beets and carrots and so forth that you'd raise yourself?
863:  You mean, like, home raised vegetables or homegrown vegetables?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, this is a, a
863:  I think I would have said grown not raised, you know?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I was, I think I was repeating your term. Homegrown would be what I'd call it. Homegrown vegetables.
Interviewer:  And, a Southern food that, um, well people eat for breakfast, is made out of?
863:  Like, grits?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  I don't. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, something that's made out of corn that's soaked in, in lye?
863:  That's hominy. And I don't like that either. But my grandfather always used to have for breakfast, ham and grits and red-eye gravy. Red-eye gravy being ham gravy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And what would you call whiskey that's made illegally? Out in the
863:  Moonshine.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Moonshine.
Interviewer:  When you say moonshine, are you meaning just any kind of illegal whiskey?
863:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 Or? #
863:  Any kind is what it would refer, all illegal whiskey would be called moonshine. By me.
Interviewer:  Could it be, would it be fit to drink, or?
863:  Not necessarily. I've heard of white lightning.
Interviewer:  What's
863:  Some of it that will make you go blind, but uh, some of it was quite decent.
Interviewer:  White lightning? Could that be just? Would that be a term you used regardless of quality? Just for any
863:  No. White lightning would probably be the kind that would strike you blind if you #1 tried #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  very much of it, you know? But uh, No. Somebody might make some real good moonshine. There can be good moonshine and bad moonshine.
Interviewer:  Would you have a, a term for just poor quality whiskey? Whether it's legal or illegal?
863:  Yes but I can't think of what it is.
Interviewer:  What about beer that you'd make at home? You'd call that?
863:  Home-brew.
Interviewer:  And, say if something was cooking and made a good impression on your nostrils, you'd tell someone, would you just that?
863:  Does it smell good?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And you say to me, would you just?
863:  Just smell that?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say this isn't imitation maple syrup, this is?
863:  The real thing.
Interviewer:  Or this is?
863:  Genuine.
Interviewer:  And, if you were buying something wholesale, like, several hundred pounds at a time, you'd say you were buying it?
863:  In bulk.
Interviewer:  And, a sweet spread you could put on toast or biscuits? Would be jam or?
863:  Or jelly. Preserve.
Interviewer:  And, what you'd have on the table to season food with?
863:  Salt and pepper.
Interviewer:  And if there was a bowl of apples and the child wanted one, he'd tell you?
863:  May I have an apple?
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, he doesn't live here, he lives?
863:  Somewhere else.
Interviewer:  Or he lives?
863:  Over there.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say yonder or yander?
863:  Over yonder? Oh yeah. I'll say that sometimes but, again, I think that you're getting into the realm of, say, slightly exaggerating or, or, or being a little hammy. #1 Or something like that. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # {X}
863:  Like, yeah Mary would be even more so than over yonder. I'd say, oh, he lives way over yonder. You know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But it would have to be kind of far away.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Uh, next door would be over there. In the next county over yonder in the next #1 county, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you understand? But I, I don't think I'd use over yonder very often.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Over there, I'd use all the time.
Interviewer:  And, you'd tell someone, don't do it that way, do it?
863:  This way.
Interviewer:  And, if you don't have any money at all, you say you're not rich, you're
863:  I'm stone broke.
Interviewer:  #1 Or #
863:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  if you
863:  I'm poor.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say
863:  I'm not poor, #1 I'm poor. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  But everybody else around here is poor.
Interviewer:  You'd say, when I was a child, my father was poor but next door was a child? What?
863:  Who was rich?
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  #1 Wealthy? #
Interviewer:  #2 What father was # rich?
863:  Whose father was rich.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Whose father was rich.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if you have a lot of peach trees, you'd say you have a peach?
863:  Orchard.
Interviewer:  And, you might ask someone if that's his orchard and he'd say, no I'm just a neighbor. He'd point to someone else and say he's the man?
863:  Who owns the orchard?
Interviewer:  And, the inside part of a cherry?
863:  The pit.
Interviewer:  What about in a peach?
863:  That's a seed.
Interviewer:  And the part inside the seed?
863:  That's probably a peach pit too. {NW} Aw, inside the seed? Would probably be the, I don't know that I've ever called it anything other than in, in science class.
Interviewer:  What would you call it in science class? Would?
863:  I don't know, is it a dicotyledon or a monocotyledon? {NW} No, that, your peach seed, or a peach pit, you could call it that. Stone, sometimes too.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You know, a but uh, I think I think I would probably refer to it as seed and what's
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Inside of it really is the seed, it's the
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What do you call the kind of peach that you have to cut the seed out of?
863:  Cling.
Interviewer:  What about the other kind? That comes off?
863:  A freestone. That's where the stone comes from, really.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I don't think I'd have ever called it a peach stone except that I know that there's a freestone peach.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see?
Interviewer:  And the part of the apple that you don't eat?
863:  Core.
Interviewer:  And when you cut up apples and dry them, you say you're making?
863:  Dried apples, that would be all I'd call them.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the term snitz?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, what different kinds
863:  But, you know, we don't raise apples down here.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  You know, this sometimes has to be, uh, regional because if you don't raise apples the, or if you don't raise sheep, for instance,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  or herd sheep, why then, you really don't, you're not familiar with the terminology that goes with it. We don't dry apples down here because we don't have them.
Interviewer:  Do they grow in other parts of Texas or?
863:  I don't think apples grow anywhere in Texas. Some peaches grow out in the hill country and then up, perhaps, from Nacogdoches on up, but #1 um, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you don't get, only pears really grow and plums down here well. And then course, down in the valley, you get all your citrus fruits.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What different kinds of nuts grow around here?
863:  Pecans, of course, most commonly but hickory nuts and uh, walnut and uh, see, what else, those the main ones that grow around here.
Interviewer:  What would be a kind of nut that grows in the ground?
863:  A peanut?
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  Goobers.
Interviewer:  And, would that be a term you'd hear around here or would that?
863:  Again, only jokingly, I think. They, I, we don't grow much around here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Peanuts, just, this isn't peanut country. There are more, there're better crops.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the kind of nut that is sorta shaped like your eye? I don't
863:  Almond.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  But none are grown here.
Interviewer:  And, with a walnut, um, when it first comes off a tree it's got a green covering on it.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  You call that the?
863:  {NW} I really don't know, I've forgotten what you call the outer covering. I have forgotten.
Interviewer:  What would you call the part that you crack?
863:  Well that's what I would call a shell.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, the kind of citrus
863:  That's a sort of a sheathe or it, it has a name but I can't think of what it is.
Interviewer:  A citrus fruit that, about the size of an apple?
863:  The orange. Grapefruit is larger.
Interviewer:  And, if you had a bowl of oranges and one day you went in to get one, and there weren't any left, you'd say the oranges are?
863:  They're gone? I mean
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, say if you had an apple, and it dried out, you'd say, well, the skin of that dried apple was all?
863:  Shriveled.
Interviewer:  And, what different things would people, um, grow in a garden around here?
863:  Around here? Well, you'd probably have greens, and tomatoes, and okra and, cucumbers. Several kinds of greens. Maybe parsley. Uh, squash. That would be, the main things that you would grow here.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of greens?
863:  Oh they're mustard greens and collard greens. Have you heard of collard greens? And uh, and uh turnip greens. You can even eat beet greens and, sometimes, you might have turnips and beets too.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, yes, we had turnips and beets, we grew 'em. And uh, I guess that's all.
Interviewer:  What do you call, um, the kind of tomato that doesn't get any bigger than this?
863:  Cherry tomatoes.
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  Just cherry tomatoes is all I know.
Interviewer:  And a little red thing that grows in the ground?
863:  Radish. Oh yes, you'd raise radishes too. You, probably could go on and raise lettuce, I don't think head lettuce is raised much around here, it's too hot but there's certain times of the year when you can raise the leaf lettuce, particularly.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, if you can keep it from the bugs.
Interviewer:  Tell me about lettuce, if you wanted to buy some, you'd ask for maybe three?
863:  Heads of lettuce.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word heads used about children? Like, say if, someone had five children, say he had five heads of children?
863:  No, we use heads for cattle.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, you had so many head of cattle. But uh, no I've never used it for children.
Interviewer:  What if someone had about 14 children? You'd say he really had a?
863:  A lot of children. Or a houseful.
Interviewer:  Do you ever use
863:  But I'll tell you, going back to it, I've heard counting noses but not #1 and #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  sometimes counting heads if, if, uh, oh, for instance, I've used the term counting heads, never saying somebody had so many head of children or heads but uh, say, really the term I've always used is counting noses. Go see how many are out there so we'll know how many refreshments to fix for the birthday party or something, you, it's called counting noses around #1 here. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  It could be called counting heads too.
Interviewer:  Do you ever, um, well, say if someone had a lot of children, do you ever hear that referred to as a passel?
863:  Oh yes.
Interviewer:  How would
863:  A passel of children or a passel of brats. Yes, I've heard it. It's not something I think I would ordinarily use but uh, it's kind of an old fashioned phrase.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, I don't think I've heard anyone, for instance, I have a friend right now that has ten children but I don't think I'd ever refer to them as a passel.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear passel used to refer to anything besides children?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, say if someone had, about, a thousand acres of land, you'd say he had a?
863:  A ranch. {NW}
Interviewer:  Or a what of
863:  A lot of land.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the e-
863:  Or a big spread.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But big spread is a Western term, and I think that's because it did spread and it was out in the open.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, and it wasn't divided into little pastures or little parcels of land.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Yes, big spread is a great, big, good Texas word.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression, a right smart, of land?
863:  Yes, I've heard right smart of everything but, again, that's one of those things that I never would personally use but, except, in writing. I used it for a dialect thing I did for the French Trading Post.
Interviewer:  How did you #1 use it? #
863:  #2 Right # smart means a lot of.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Somebody can have a right smart amount of money too.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  So it, it meant a lot of.
Interviewer:  Just, Any, anything that you can count #1 would, #
863:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  would be right smart. Um, and along with your meat, you might have a baked?
863:  Potato.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of potatoes?
863:  Well, Irish potatoes are what we think about, and sometimes Idahoes, and they're called spuds, and then here we have new potatoes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  A lot. New potatoes is, be the only thing really that you'd grow in this part of the country.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The kind of potato that, that's red on the inside.
863:  Oh. Are you talking about, really, sort of orange?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
863:  That's a sweet potato.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Or a yam.
Interviewer:  Is that the same thing?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  And, something that'd make your eyes water if you cut it?
863:  Onion.
Interviewer:  What do you call the little onions that you eat before they get very big?
863:  Well, we just called them green onions down here but I think they're also called scallions and, perhaps even, leeks, although, I think they are a slightly different thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, something about, um, looks kinda like lettuce, would be?
863:  It looks kind of #1 like #
Interviewer:  #2 Yes. #
863:  lettuce?
Interviewer:  Green. Comes in a head.
863:  You mean, a cabbage?
Interviewer:  Okay. #1 Probably got #
863:  #2 Okay. #
Interviewer:  several of those, you'd talk about several?
863:  Cabbages.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Cabbages.
Interviewer:  And, what different kind of beans would people raise around here?
863:  Well, we have snap beans, and uh, pole beans, and course, you get various kinds of dried beans like kidney beans and butter beans, and things like this.
Interviewer:  To get the butter beans out of the pods, you say you have to?
863:  Shell them.
Interviewer:  What about Lima beans?
863:  Butter beans and Lima beans are almost the same thing except the Lima beans are greener and the butter beans are yellower.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about, um, the term green bean or string bean?
863:  Well, green bean can be either a string bean or a snap bean.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And there's not a whole lot of difference between those.
Interviewer:  How can you tell the difference?
863:  Uh, some are stringier than others. The stringier ones are what I call string beans. There are some #1 that don't #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  have very many strings. I think that this may be a matter of modern breeding, I don't know, but, uh, Kentucky wonders are what I tend to call, uh, snap beans, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  because they snap pretty well, and then, there are some that, string beans, and, and I've used one of these little apple peelers, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  to string them off before I cook them.
Interviewer:  And, the kind of corn that is tender enough to eat off the cob?
863:  Well, we call it corn on the cob. Down here, I've never heard it called roasting ears but in other parts of the country I've heard it called roasting ears. Here it's just, it's just sweet corn.
Interviewer:  Where did you hear it called roasting ears?
863:  Oh, first time I ever heard it was, I guess, a friend when I was off at school, who set about roasting ears and I said, you mean just sweet corn? #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  I thought you had to cook it a special way, #1 and she said #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  no, you boil roasting ears. I said, well, then that's just corn on the cob.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The outside of the ear of corn is the?
863:  The shuck.
Interviewer:  And the stringy stuff?
863:  The tassel. Or the, or we called it the corn silk.
Interviewer:  And, this is the same thing?
863:  Well, the tassel, you know, goes on the outside and then it goes inside, it's corn silk on the inside.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And something you make pie out of at thanksgiving?
863:  Pumpkin.
Interviewer:  And, what different kinds of melons grow around here?
863:  Watermelons, cantaloupes, honeydew melons.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear muskmelon or mushmelon?
863:  I think it's the same thing as a cantaloupe.
Interviewer:  What did people call it?
863:  Cantaloupe. {NW} I've heard it called mushmelon but, uh, everybody else down, ev-, everybody down here always called it a cantaloupe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Were there different kinds of watermelons? Different names for them or?
863:  Well, there, there are some that are striped and some that are all green and then there are some little miniature ones, uh, but I've never heard them particularly called, uh, a different kind,
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 you know? #
Interviewer:  And, something, a little umbrella shape thing that grows up in the woods or field?
863:  Mushroom?
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  Oh, toadstools, fairy stools, that sort of thing. Fairy circles or they used to come in rings, sometimes. But mostly, just mushrooms. Toadstools are the things you see out in your yard, usually.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  When your eating them, they're mushrooms but you don't eat the ones that are out in the yard. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, what people smoke, when out of tobacco?
863:  What did they smoke?
Interviewer:  Well, what, what people smoke would be?
863:  Cigarettes and cigars.
Interviewer:  And, say is someone asked you if you was able to do something, you'd say sure, I?
863:  I can.
Interviewer:  And if you weren't able to, you'd say, no I?
863:  No, I can't.
Interviewer:  And, if you just refused to, you'd say no I?
863:  I absolutely cannot. #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 Or, # they say, will you do that, you'd say, no I?
863:  No I won't. Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, say if there was a, uh, bad accident up the road. You'd say, well, you didn't need to call a doctor because the person was, what, dead by the time we got there?
863:  Already dead?
Interviewer:  Do you ever say, done dead?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, you tell a child, now you're not doing what you?
863:  Ought to do or should do.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if a child got a whipping, I bet he did something he?
863:  Shouldn't have.
Interviewer:  Or he?
863:  Should not have or shouldn't have is what I
Interviewer:  Or using the word ought, you'd say?
863:  Ought not to have done. {NW} That come out of the episcopal prayer book there. {NS}
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  I said that comes out of the episcopal prayer book. We've done those things which we ought not to have done. But I think I said that he shouldn't have.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Probably not ought not to of.
Interviewer:  And, say if you were doing something that was hard work, and you were doing it all by yourself, and all the time you were working, a friend was just standing around watching you, would you
863:  Goldbricking, you mean?
Interviewer:  When you get through working you tell them, um, you know, instead of just standing there, you know, you might?
863:  Have helped me.
Interviewer:  Okay. Say the whole thing.
863:  Well, instead of just standing there, you might have helped me.
Interviewer:  And, if I ask you if you'll be able to do something next week, you might say, well, I'm not sure I could do it but I
863:  I'll try or I might be able to.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say I might could do it?
863:  No. I wouldn't say that.
Interviewer:  How does that sound to you?
863:  Oh, well, I hear it all the time. You'll, you'll find a lot of it, it's quite a common. I might could do this, I might could do that but it isn't something I would say, but then again, you see, your getting an educated person
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  whose had a lot of that, uh, washed out with soap out of them, #1 you know, #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  {NW} so forth.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  No, I wouldn't say I might could, but uh, but uh, lot of people do.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Some that should be well-educated.
Interviewer:  #1 You'd say um, #
863:  #2 Common. #
Interviewer:  I'm glad I carried my umbrella because we hadn't gone half a block when it?
863:  Began to rain.
Interviewer:  And you'd, say um,
863:  Or it poured down.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  You'd ask someone what time does the movie?
863:  Begin.
Interviewer:  You'd say it must have #1 already? #
863:  #2 Or # start. Must have already begun or it's already started.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say that would be a hard mountain to?
863:  Climb.
Interviewer:  But last year, my neighbor?
863:  Climbed a mountain.
Interviewer:  But I have never?
863:  Climbed a mountain, I don't say clumb. {NW}
Interviewer:  Who says that?
863:  You hear it. Uh, you know, uh, among the people that I regularly see in a social way and my friends I won't hear this but also there are a lot of people that come, for instance, the plumber, the carpenter, the laundry lady, and all these and, and I'm the kind that just happens to like to talk to people and I'm always talking to them and I hear all of this language and I talk to the people like farmers down there, #1 for instance. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  You really wanna talk to some, I can get you some good white farmers down there that are
Interviewer:  Yeah, I
863:  Okay, oh I, oh I've got a couple of good ones.
Interviewer:  How far away is, is your, land?
863:  About twenty miles.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  From here, it's just south of here.
Interviewer:  Well that'd be kind of far away though.
863:  from Beaumont, you mean?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Well, Charlie can find you some good ones that are in town but our farmers that are all down there that work for us
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And uh, these are people with very little education, most of them, say, a high school education. But a good country high school education, which is not necessarily a very literate education.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's a, you could say it's those few terms can be used together.
Interviewer:  #1 You have mainly, um, #
863:  #2 Uh. #
Interviewer:  cattle down there or?
863:  No. this is really, mainly, rice farming and sardine farming now. It used to be cattle but we've turned, this is the one just my husband and I own.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. How many people does it take to?
863:  Well, we have tenant farmers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see, the farmers rent the land and get the water from us and then give us a percentage of their crop.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, these are quite the substantial people, they own their own equipment, they have all kinds of, tractors and trucks, and things like this. They're, uh, but they're, they're products of our local high schools right out of, say, Winnie and Hampshire, and uh, this is right down, just twenty #1 miles #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  south of here, it's, it's twenty miles south of where we are living, probably fifteen miles south of the
Interviewer:  #1 Well, if it was #
863:  #2 city limits, maybe. #
Interviewer:  it'd still be?
863:  Oh it's #1 still, #
Interviewer:  #2 farther than #
863:  I mean it would still be within the same linguistic area, and on this farm, I can take you to mr Johnson who is a good Cajun and absolutely illiterate.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  Can only write his name, I don't think he can read anything. He can't even read numbers, I don't think, because when, uh, when he has to call us, he has to get someone else to dial the telephone. I'm serious. On the other hand, all the rest of the people that work for us are pretty substantial citizens, not well-educated, but uh, they're pretty prosperous farmers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, #1 they're, #
Interviewer:  #2 You ever sound like? #
863:  they, they aren't so much working for us, they
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  they are our #1 tenant farmers #
Interviewer:  #2 They're just running # the land?
863:  They, we, we get a percentage of the crop for the use of our land. and in some cases our allotment.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What do they have they have a cotton allotment here and tobacco?
863:  Yes but we're not in that kind of country. You're not raising cotton here, you'd have to go up, maybe, a hundred miles from here to start cotton.
Interviewer:  What would you have an allotment for if you?
863:  Well, the government only allows you to, uh, raise so many acres of, of whatever it is you're raising, for instance, we have, uh, a allotment to raise so many acres of rice and then our farmers have allotments too.
Interviewer:  They, they do rice the same way they do cotton.
863:  Yes. And peanuts, and a whole lot of other things #1 that are on the allotment system. #
Interviewer:  #2 I thought it was just # mainly cotton and tobacco.
863:  Well, we are waiting to see what the government is going to do this year because they may do away with the allotment system. Uh, in which case, they've done away with a lot of investment because uh, allotment was something you also bought along with land.
Interviewer:  Like buying futures? Or is that something different?
863:  Well, a little different from futures. Allotment was the right to buy and uh, or you don't want to go into all this. {NW} #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 I, I think I don't know #
863:  #1 but it's, but #
Interviewer:  #2 too much about #
863:  you do have only the right to so man-, so much, for instance, the farmer may have a right to, to uh, plant five hundred acres
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  of rice. And he can plant it any where he wants to, he can plant three hundred on my land and two hundred on somebody else's.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But as long as he only plants five hundred acres.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Now, if I have allotment, and I can't plant it this year, for instance, my son owns some allotment and he's now in college. He leases this allotment to this man.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And he plants Bill's allotment which is what he's doing. Bill used to plant his own when he was in high school. But now, he leases it out to our farmers because he's in college and he's
Interviewer:  Oh, I
863:  #1 in #
Interviewer:  #2 see #
863:  college both during the planting season and during the harvesting season so he cannot raise his own rice right now. And uh, so he, he finds it easier to lease out and he tried it one year but getting someone else to look after your rice is hard
Interviewer:  Yeah.
863:  so it's just better for him to lease the allotment. He doesn't make as much, of course.
Interviewer:  Um, you'd say, that's the book that you, what, me for Christmas?
863:  Gave me.
Interviewer:  Okay, and you'd say, you have?
863:  Given me.
Interviewer:  And, when I'm finished with it, I'll?
863:  Give it to someone else.
Interviewer:  And, if you got someone some medicine, you go in and say, why haven't you?
863:  Taken your medicine.
Interviewer:  The person would say, well, I already?
863:  I've already taken it.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Or I took it an hour ago.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and in another hour I'll?
863:  I'll take some more.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, he was feeling so good that instead of walking he, what, all the way home?
863:  Ran?
Interviewer:  Okay, and you'd say, he has?
863:  Run a good race.
Interviewer:  And, children like to?
863:  Run everyday.
Interviewer:  And, the kind of bird that can see in the dark?
863:  An owl.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of owls are there?
863:  Well, there's, down here, of course, we've even seen a snowy owl down here but we have, uh, horned owls, and screech owls, and barred owls, and barn owls.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between
863:  #1 Oh, they're just different #
Interviewer:  #2 all of those? #
863:  breeds. I have a book over there. {NW}
Interviewer:  What, you mentioned a barred?
863:  Barred.
Interviewer:  What does that look like?
863:  Well, he's got bars on him, it's a, it's just his coloration, and the markings.
Interviewer:  On his face?
863:  Mm-hmm. He's different from a barn. B-A-R-N owl. He's a barred owl. #1 And then #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  there's a screech owl. And uh, the old owl that we call an eight-hooter down here.
Interviewer:  A what?
863:  Eight-hooter, you've heard an eight hooter.
Interviewer:  Never heard that name.
863:  {NW} #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 {NS} # {NS}
Interviewer:  What about the kind of bird that drills holes in trees?
863:  It's a woodpecker.
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  {NW} No, except that, uh, I know several of them a-, apart, you know? But they're just, except for like redheaded woodpecker, you #1 know, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  and yellow-bellied, red-bellied woodpecker and a yellow-bellied sap-sucker and we have a wonderful one. The Pileated Woodpecker, who's the huge one, probably the kind Woody Woodpecker is and uh, they did call him a my God or a Lord God down here because
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  the story is that when you see them, you say my God, that's the biggest bird I ever #1 saw, you know. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} # Is that what, what you would call it or?
863:  No, I'd call him a Pileated Woodpecker.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear them called a peckerwood?
863:  Yes. Uh, I've heard it called that but it isn't anything that I would call it and I really think I've not so much heard it called that as read
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 it. #
Interviewer:  Read it called a?
863:  A peckerwood, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word peckerwood or used about people?
863:  Well, in quite a bad sense.
Interviewer:  What would it mean?
863:  Oh you really wouldn't wanna know. {NW}
Interviewer:  Yeah I would.
863:  Well, it has to do with a part of the male anatomy.
Interviewer:  Did, you heard someone call?
863:  No, I've read it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What'd you read it in?
863:  It was in a, I think it was in a a book maybe, let's see, I think the first time I ever ran across it because I don't read much of the pornographic literature, except occasionally if it's well written, happened to be in a book about Shanghai Pierce, and he was discussing, uh, his daughter's marriage to a #1 young #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  cowboy.
Interviewer:  You heard it, uh, with the word wood or do you hear
863:  I don't
Interviewer:  #1 pecker or #
863:  #2 remember #
Interviewer:  peckerwood or?
863:  I, I just know that I've heard it
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  used that way.
Interviewer:  And, a kind of black and white animal that's got a real strong smell?
863:  Skunk. Or a polecat.
Interviewer:  Is that #1 the same thing? #
863:  #2 Either one. # Same thing.
Interviewer:  And, say, if some animals had been coming and killing your chickens, um, what general, you didn't know exactly what kind of animal it was, what general
863:  Probably a wolf down here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Predator, you're talking about but it's probably a wolf down here, other places it might be a weasel.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear a general name for animals like that? Do you ever hear varmints?
863:  Oh yeah, but varmints are also things like rats.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Varmints are any, uh, unpleasant animal that does damage to you, whether it's to your crops or to your stock.
Interviewer:  Would it be a mouse? Would that be a varmint?
863:  Yes, a mouse could be a varmint.
Interviewer:  And, a bushy tailed animal that gets up in the trees?
863:  You mean a squirrel?
Interviewer:  What different kinds of squirrels?
863:  Well, there are grey squirrels and brown squirrels and tree squirrels and uh,
Interviewer:  What is a
863:  #1 There is #
Interviewer:  #2 tree #
863:  a ground squirrel in other parts of Texas.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What does a tree squirrel look like?
863:  Well, there's one out in the back yard. In fact, there are about ten or twelve out there but, you know, it's just a nice little grey fellow that runs up and #1 down with his #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  long bushy tail. There are also flying squirrels.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Can a ground squirrel climb trees?
863:  I expect he probably can.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And what different kinds of fish do people get around here?
863:  Catfish, trout, bass, perch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, #1 Lots #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  more, mackerel You talking bout river fish or, or, uh,
Interviewer:  Well, both.
863:  Well, you get, uh, course trout and mackerel, um, out in the gulf, bass, flounder, red fish, red snapper,
Interviewer:  What else do they get from the gulf besides fish?
863:  Shrimp.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Shrimp.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Crabs.
Interviewer:  What about something that pearls grow in?
863:  Well, oysters are not so much out in the gulf. The oysters are in the bay but yes we have lots of oyster
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  or we did before the dreg just did so much damage. Now they've closed down the dredging we'll probably have better oyster reefs.
Interviewer:  And, something that you'd find in a freshwater stream? It looks kinda like a lobster.
863:  Down here we call them crawfish.
Interviewer:  And something that's got a hard shell, it can pull it's neck and legs into it's shell?
863:  Turtle.
Interviewer:  Does the turtle stay on land or water?
863:  Well, I think they can do both. We have some terrapin that are strictly land turtles that do not go into the water but I think nearly all the water turtles can come out on land.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, something you'd hear making a, um, croaking noise around a lake at night?
863:  You mean a frog?
Interviewer:  What do you call the big ones?
863:  Bullfrogs.
Interviewer:  And the tiny ones?
863:  Leap frogs, maybe, or just little frogs.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about the ones that get up in the trees?
863:  Well, they're tree frogs. Croak whenever it's gonna rain.
Interviewer:  And, the kind that stays on land?
863:  Hop toads, probably. Toads. #1 We have #
Interviewer:  #2 And, #
863:  lots of garden toads, we,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  hop toads is just a, I don't know, it's just something, probably, that I picked up in my own family.
Interviewer:  Say, if you wanted to go fishing, what would you dig up to go fishing with?
863:  Worms.
Interviewer:  Any different kinds, or?
863:  Well, some people call them angleworms, with me it woulds just be earthworm.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, I've dug them up for my son to go fishing with and with some regret because they're so good for the soil.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about a kind of fish you could use for bait?
863:  Well, little, little minnows.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, a kind of insect that flies around a light and tries to fly into it?
863:  Moth?
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Moth.
Interviewer:  If you're talking about several of those?
863:  Moths.
Interviewer:  And, an insect that has a light in its tail?
863:  Lightning bug. Or a firefly.
Interviewer:  Is that the same thing?
863:  Same thing.
Interviewer:  And, something that would bite you and make you itch?
863:  Mosquito.
Interviewer:  And, a tiny red insect?
863:  Red bug.
Interviewer:  And something
863:  Chigger, also.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Chigger, also.
Interviewer:  Which would you probably call it?
863:  Well, I would call it a red bug except that you call it a chigger bite. {NW}
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And they're interchangeable and, uh, everybody calls them both.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, I, there's just really no difference.
Interviewer:  Say, if you hadn't cleaned a room in a while up in the ceiling, in the corner, you might find a?
863:  A spider web.
Interviewer:  Would you call it the same thing if it's outside #1 across a bush? #
863:  #2 Yep. #
Interviewer:  And, a kind of insect that's got a long, thin body and hard beak, and two pairs of wings? Would be around damp places?
863:  A long, thin body and a hard beak?
Interviewer:  Yeah. And it's got two pairs of real shiny wings. It's about this size. It's supposed to eat mosquitoes and
863:  You mean a mosquito hawk or
Interviewer:  Okay.
863:  dragonfly, either one.
Interviewer:  That's the same insect?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear them called a snake doctor? Or a snake fever?
863:  Yes, and uh, witch's horse or several other things but only rarely. Uh, actually, I think everybody just refers to them either as a dragonfly or a or a mosquito hawk here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Those are just the two main terms.
Interviewer:  And an insect that hops around in the grass?
863:  A cricket perhaps or a
Interviewer:  Or a little?
863:  Grasshopper?
Interviewer:  Do you ever heard them called hoppergrass?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And what kinds of insects will sting you?
863:  Bees. Wasps.
Interviewer:  What about something that builds a nest like this?
863:  Hornets?
Interviewer:  And, little yellow and black striped insect? Kind of like a bee or a wasp? Do you ever hear of a yellow?
863:  Oh, yellow jackets, yes, but I kind of, I kind of of, uh, classify them as a wasp. Are they not?
Interviewer:  Mm-mm. I think they're kind of like
863:  They're, yellow jackets are just a particular wasp, as far as I'm concerned, but, I mean, this is not {NW} not {X} far as the, botanists are concerned, of a, what have you.
Interviewer:  Where do they build their nests?
863:  Yellow jackets, I think, up under the eves of houses and things like that, sometimes in trees.
Interviewer:  What about
863:  I think they attach theirs from the
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  top, and make, what I call, a wasp's nest. You know, a yellow jacket's nest is just a wasp's nest for me and the hornets, course, come more all the way around.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Something that builds a nest out of dirt or mud?
863:  Dirt dauber.
Interviewer:  Do they sting?
863:  Yes, I think they can but I, uh, uh, yes, I think they can sting.
Interviewer:  And, the part of the tree that grows under the ground is called the?
863:  The roots.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of using certain kinds of roots or vines for medicine?
863:  Oh yes.
Interviewer:  Do you remember what any of them were?
863:  I think sassafras root is used.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, oh my, quite a lot are, probably, used uh, sassafras just comes to mind. I probably could think of some more in a minute. But anyway,
Interviewer:  What about the kind of tree that you tap for syrup?
863:  Maple.
Interviewer:  And a big group of those? Growing together? Would be a?
863:  I suppose you could call it a maple grove. Do they call it a copse or something else? You know, we don't have maples much down here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What different kinds of trees do y'all have down here?
863:  Oh, of course, the main one is oaks.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  We have lots of oaks but then you have some of the other, uh, trees, like the walnut and uh, not cherry though. Uh, we have um, a lot of these little things like tallows and of course pines.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  All kinds of pines. We have um, hickory. I'm trying to think, other than the things that have been brought in by people, you know, I can name you all these lovely flowers and trees around here but they're not native.
Interviewer:  What are some of the flowering trees around here?
863:  Well, we'll have the mimosa and, and various, there's, um, uh, golden shower's trees. These are all flowering trees that you order and they, they #1 grow #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  very well but they were not native here.
Interviewer:  What about a tree that's got big white flowers and
863:  Magnolias of course.
Interviewer:  And, a tree that it's got um, long, white limbs and white scaly bark you can, sort of, peel off?
863:  Well, we don't have birch down here but I'll tell you what we have that looks almost the same thing is sycamore.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, kind of a a bush or shrub that's got pink or white flowers? Blooms in late spring?
863:  You talking bout an azalea?
Interviewer:  Or, well, larger than that?
863:  Pink and white flowers. Other than the fruit trees, you're talking about?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Well, of course, we have down here, now, the only kind of cherries and, and peaches you're gonna have mostly are flowering but, uh, you get various and you can get the crab apple. But, again, they mostly just flower, they don't bear much fruit down in this part but you have a lot of, uh, pink and white both, I think on the um, plum. And, and our main fruit trees, really, are the plum and the um, pears. And then we, of course, have a lot of figs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Things like that.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of something called a spoonwood or a spoonhunt or
863:  No.
Interviewer:  mountain laurel or?
863:  Mountain laurel, I've heard of but we don't have it here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about
863:  Now, there's a mountain laurel, of course we, we don't have rhododendrons here, we have azaleas.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But not the rhododendrons. Those will grow mostly in the east, where there's a little bit of, uh, elevation. Now, there's a Texas mountain laurel but it's entirely different and has a lavender flower.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's not the same thing as your eastern mountain laurel at all.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between a mountain laurel and a rhododendron?
863:  I suspect, only, a slight difference in species.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Along the way.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  They're all the same sort of thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Kind of shrub that, uh, the leaves turn bright red, and it's got clusters of berries on it?
863:  That the leaves turn right, right red. You know, again, you're talking to someone in a part of the country that very rarely has freezes and we don't have very many pretty colors. But if your talk- but holly doesn't turn #1 red #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  so it isn't that.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of sumac or shoemake?
863:  Mm-hmm. It grows along the sides of the road, not #1 so much #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  down here but, say, from Nacogdoches on up around Tyler and along that.
Interviewer:  You, what would you call that?
863:  Sumac.
Interviewer:  And, what different kinds of berries would, well, grow around here or would you buy at the store here?
863:  Well, of course, we have blackberries, and dewberries, and young berries, which are all about the same kid of berries. {NW} No raspberries down here, uh, got your strawberries no blueberries down here. We get, uh, mayhaws, which you probably don't get in many other parts of the country but they grow on a tree and in the swamps and they fall down on the water and people go and get them and, oh, they make good jelly. #1 And that's #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  the main berries.
Interviewer:  Say, if you saw some berries and didn't know what kind they were, you'd tell someone, you better not eat those, they might be?
863:  Poisonous.
Interviewer:  And what kind of bushes or vines will make your skin break out?
863:  {NW} Well, we have the, um, bull nettles, and the poison ivy, and poison oak here. {NS} Want to turn it off?
Interviewer:  Poison oak. How do you
863:  Poison ivy and poison oak.
Interviewer:  How do you tell the difference?
863:  The different leaves.
Interviewer:  What, what do they look like?
863:  Well, the poison ivy has, uh, the three leaves it's a traditional and the poison oak has this little bit different leaf and it doesn't grow in threes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, say if a married woman didn't want to make up her own mind about something, she'd say, well, I have to ask?
863:  My husband.
Interviewer:  And he'd say I have to ask?
863:  My wife.
Interviewer:  Any joking ways that refer to each other?
863:  I'm sure there are but it's not so much regional as something they're picking up on television, you know, you can call them now, the old woman or the old lady or the war department or what have you.
Interviewer:  And, a woman whose husband is dead is called a?
863:  Widow.
Interviewer:  And, if he just left her, then she'd be a?
863:  In a mess. {NW}
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression grass widow?
863:  Grass widow has always been referred to, in my hearing, as one who is divorced.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the man whose child you are, is called your?
863:  My father.
Interviewer:  And his wife is your?
863:  My mother.
Interviewer:  And together, they're your?
863:  Parents.
Interviewer:  Um, what did people call their father and mother?
863:  You mean beside mother, and daddy, and things like that? They call them the folks. Wi-, this is one in my family, we always call them the folks.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, or going off to Houston, the folks are back or something like that.
Interviewer:  And, your father's father would be your?
863:  My grandfather.
Interviewer:  What did you call him? Or what would people call
863:  Granddaddy.
Interviewer:  And, his wife would be your?
863:  Grandmother.
Interviewer:  And, you'd call her?
863:  Grandmother.
Interviewer:  And, something on wheels that you can put a baby in, and it will lie down?
863:  Carriage.
Interviewer:  You put the baby in the carriage and then you go out and?
863:  Push the carriage, I guess.
Interviewer:  And, if you had two children, you might have a son and a?
863:  Daughter.
Interviewer:  Or a boy and a?
863:  Girl.
Interviewer:  And Bob is five inches taller this year. You'd say, in one year, Bob?
863:  Has grown.
Interviewer:  Or he?
863:  Really shot up.
Interviewer:  Or he what?
863:  Sprouted up, even, but mostly shot up or he grew up a lot. Or he's gotten taller.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, if a child is misbehaving, you'd tell them, if you do that again, you're gonna get a?
863:  A whipping.
Interviewer:  Anything else you'd
863:  Or a spanking, with me it would probably be a spanking.
Interviewer:  Which would be worse?
863:  Well, a whipping, I think, would involve a whip.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Perhaps, a switch, but I think that I always called it a spanking was what you did with your hand
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  and a switching was what you did with a little switch out there and it was very effective
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  and a whipping would be something very bad, I think.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I don't think I ever whipped my children. They did get some spankings.
Interviewer:  And, if a boy has the same color hair and eyes that his father has and the same shape nose, you'd say that he?
863:  You'd probably say that he's the spitting-image.
Interviewer:  Okay.
863:  #1 That's a good, #
Interviewer:  #2 Or he? #
863:  old term.
Interviewer:  He
863:  #1 But #
Interviewer:  #2 what? #
863:  he looks like his father or he resembles his father?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, if a woman was gonna have a child, you'd say that she's?
863:  Expecting. Or she is pregnant.
Interviewer:  Did people used to use the term pregnant much? Or did that sound a little
863:  No, I don't think they used to use it very much but they do now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What did people used to say?
863:  Expecting. Or in a family way, I've heard that #1 it isn't #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  anything I've ever used but I've heard it, when I was a child, said that way.
Interviewer:  Any joking expressions or vulgar expressions?
863:  Oh I'm sure there are but I don't think I use them.
Interviewer:  And, if you didn't have a doctor to deliver a baby, the woman you could send for?
863:  Would have been a midwife.
Interviewer:  And, a child that's born to a woman that's not married, would be called a?
863:  Illegitimate or a bastard.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called a wood colt or a bush child or anything like that?
863:  Yes, but not, no not really not around here, I've, I've, I think I've more read that. #1 You know? #
Interviewer:  #2 Which? #
863:  I, I've never heard anyone call them that around #1 here. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  It's just something that you've read in literature.
Interviewer:  Which terms have you read?
863:  Both.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, you brother's son would be called your?
863:  My nephew.
Interviewer:  And, the child that's lost both parents would be a?
863:  An orphan.
Interviewer:  And, the person that's supposed to look after the orphan would be his legal?
863:  Guardian.
Interviewer:  And, if you have a lot of cousins, and nephews, and nieces around, you'd say, this town if full of my?
863:  Family. Or my kin.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, well she
863:  Or relatives, either one.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Any of them.
Interviewer:  She has the same family name and she looks a little bit like me but actually we are no?
863:  Kin.
Interviewer:  And, someone who comes into town, and nobody has ever seen them before?
863:  Stranger.
Interviewer:  What if he came from a different country?
863:  Be a foreigner then, I suppose.
Interviewer:  Would you ever use the word foreigner about someone who was a stranger but who wasn't from a different country?
863:  No, I wouldn't.
Interviewer:  And, a woman who conducts school would be a?
863:  Schoolmistress or a teacher.
Interviewer:  And, the name of the mother of Jesus?
863:  Mary.
Interviewer:  And George Washington's wife?
863:  Martha.
Interviewer:  And do you remember a song, um, it started out, wait 'til the sun shines
863:  Nellie.
Interviewer:  And, a male goat is called a?
863:  Billy.
Interviewer:  And, a boy nicknamed Billy, his full name would be?
863:  William, probably.
Interviewer:  And, if your father had a brother by that name, you'd call him?
863:  Probably Uncle Bill.
Interviewer:  Or, if you use the full name?
863:  Uncle William.
Interviewer:  And, President Kennedy's first name was?
863:  John.
Interviewer:  And if you your father had a brother by that name?
863:  He would be Uncle John.
Interviewer:  And, the first book in the New Testament? In the Bible?
863:  Matthew.
Interviewer:  And, the name of the wife of Abraham?
863:  Sarah?
Interviewer:  And, what they used to call a barrel maker?
863:  Cooper.
Interviewer:  And a married woman with that last name would be?
863:  mrs Cooper.
Interviewer:  And, what relation would my mother's sister be to me?
863:  Your mother's sister would be your aunt.
Interviewer:  And, say a preacher that's not very well-trained, just sort of preaches here and there, and he's not very good at preaching? You'd call him a?
863:  I w-