Interviewer:  Um, your name?
863:  I'm mrs Will {B} My maiden name was Rosine {B}
Interviewer:  Rose?
863:  Rosine. R-O-S-I-N-E.
Interviewer:  Mc {B}
863:  Mm-hmm. {B}
Interviewer:  And your address? {B}
863:  Beaumont, Texas.
Interviewer:  And the name of the, county?
863:  This is Jefferson County, Texas.
Interviewer:  {NW} And where were you born?
863:  I was born here in Beaumont, as well as my father and my grandfather before me.
Interviewer:  And your age?
863:  My great grandfather came to Texas when he was four years old. He was born in Louisiana.
Interviewer:  Which grandfather? On which side of your?
863:  This is the {B} on my father's side.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Your grandfather {B} was born here?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  And your great grandfather came here?
863:  He was born in Louisiana in eighteen nineteen, came here about four years later in eighteen twenty-three and his father came from Tennessee. Montgomery County, Tennessee.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Do you know where, um, where in Louisiana your grand, great #1 grandfather #
863:  #2 Yes # Lake Charles. Only around seventy miles
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 away, you see. #
Interviewer:  Um, your age?
863:  I'm forty-seven.
Interviewer:  And occupation?
863:  I'm a house-work wife and, and I don't think that's a bad term, and I'm a civic worker.
Interviewer:  What do you mean, civic worker?
863:  Oh, I just work in various civic organizations as um, volunteer.
Interviewer:  And your religion?
863:  Episcopal. Protestant.
Interviewer:  And tell me about your education. Going back just, well, starting with the very first school you went to. The name of it, and
863:  Well, I went to mrs Wahrmund's kindergarten. Everybody went to it and then to the first grade and on through junior high school here in Beaumont, Texas.
Interviewer:  mrs Wahrmund's kindergarten?
863:  Mm-hmm. That's W-a-h-r-m-u-n-d. Good German name.
Interviewer:  This, the,
863:  that's, if you want to start from the very beginning, that's it.
Interviewer:  And then the
863:  Through junior high school and the Beaumont Public School.
Interviewer:  What was the name of the school?
863:  Averill Elementary.
Interviewer:  Averill?
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  A-
863:  A-v-e-r-i-l-l. Uh-huh. Dowling Junior High School.
Interviewer:  Dowing?
863:  D-o-w-l-i-n-g. And then I went to Saint Mary's Hall in San Antonio.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  For high school.
Interviewer:  Saint Mary's?
863:  Saint Mary's Hall.
Interviewer:  How long were you in San Antonio?
863:  Three years.
Interviewer:  That was the parochial school there? No, not really. It was sort of under the wing of the Episcopal Church but it was not an Episcopal school. It was an independent school. {NS} {NS} It was, um, a regular nine month boarding school? Do you remember?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  Mm. You'd, you'd spend your summers back in Beaumont?
863:  Yes. Some of 'em.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, what about after that?
863:  And then I went to the University of Texas.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Received a B.A. Degree and went back for one year's, um, graduate work.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What was your B.A. in?
863:  It was in what was called plan two in those days. Uh, Dean Farland, when he was dean of arts and sciences, had started a plan whereby he chose one hundred students every year to take a special course and it was an accelerated course and by the time you were a Junior you were taking graduate courses in whatever your major, if you wanted one, if, you were not required to major.
Interviewer:  Did you #1 ever major? #
863:  #2 All that presupposed # I had enough hours to have a major in English and a minor in History.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What did you go to graduate school in?
863:  I took a course in international politics and in, uh, international law.
Interviewer:  There at Texas?
863:  At Texas.
Interviewer:  So you were at Texas five years in all?
863:  Five years.
Interviewer:  Then, have you gone back to school since?
863:  No, but I considered it.
Interviewer:  {NW}, Um, tell me about the activities you were involved in.
863:  Involved in here? Well, right now they're really largely historical. I have been uh, the president of the Beaumont Heritage Society this last year. I was six years on the State Historical Commission and I have been for the last two years on the Texas Historical Foundation. I work with other state groups in historical preservation. I've, previously been the president of the Junior League of Beaumont, the Beaumont Children's home. I have, uh, been head of the women's division of the United Appeals. I've worked in the little theater. Um, I forgot all the things I have done. Of course your Junior League activities give you a wide range of activities.
Interviewer:  What is
863:  Anyway.
Interviewer:  Junior league exactly?
863:  Junior League, it's a national organization of uh young women between the ages of twenty and forty, uh, in selective cities. There aren't junior leagues everywhere but the Association of Junior Leagues of America except they changed the name I think. We're chosen, uh, because we are people who are supposed to have means and leisure and influence and should use it properly. So we're taught to be volunteers and to be good board members and to do volunteer work. I've done volunteer work, for instance, with, uh, retarded children. We've worked in clinics, you know, well baby clinics usually, we've done children's theater. We've done puppetry, we've done school lunches. Welfare. Uh, all sorts of
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  things like that.
Interviewer:  What does the, I've heard the term well baby clinic before, now what exactly
863:  A well baby clinic is, uh, where the mothers bring their children for regular check-ups when they're not sick. In other words, it's the post-natal care.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, they come for their shots, they come to be checked to see if their, uh, if they, they're doing alright. If there is not something that's,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  uh, wrong with them that the mothers don't happen to know. You know if they're developing correctly, if their eyes are doing correctly, if their motor responses are correct.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 All those # good things. It's, it's as opposed to a child that's brought in because it's sick and running fever, you know, or something like this when, we used to have a clinic here, an out-patient clinic
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  a long time ago. We really need one badly now. It faded by the wayside because of the county commissioner but that's another story.
Interviewer:  Uh, have you been active in church?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  What about travel, tell me
863:  Well, I love to travel {NW} I've been to Europe twice, I spent a summer in Central America with a Costa Rican family. I just come back from Hawaii. I've been to the far east to Japan and Hong Kong and Bangkok. All of these were just pleasure trips,
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 you understand? # But, uh, I'm a great museum goer, I'm a great sight seer and I'm a great reader, and before we go, we used to travel with our children a lot. We've taken them largely through the United States and into Canada. And I'm the kind that had all the books out and planned where we were going each day, and I would plan it so that we did all our museum and historical and educational sightseeing in the morning and then we had lunch in the afternoon and they played miniature golf or swam or did something they liked so that they enjoyed the trip, you know I don't like to wear 'em out and you can.
Interviewer:  Have you ever lived away from here though? Besides the
863:  No, except for being off at school.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I've always lived in Beaumont.
Interviewer:  And, tell me about your parents, where they were born and
863:  Well, my father of course was born here because he's a fifth generation or he's a fourth generation Beaumont-er
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And my mother was born in Nacogdoches, Texas which is about a hundred and thirty miles North of here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, uh, she's a deep east Texan. Her family having also been there for four generations.
Interviewer:  What was her maiden name?
863:  {B} {B}
Interviewer:  I just interviewed a woman that was related to you then.
863:  Who was that?
Interviewer:  Um. {X} {NS} She's a first cousin or do you know?
863:  No, she's a first cousin, actually, of my mother's, although she's my age. My uncle Guy was married twice and this was the group from his second wife so that his oldest child is closer in, to the age of my mother
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  and his youngest child, well she's younger than I am, but, uh, she's actually my mother's first cousin.
Interviewer:  Um. What? Your parents both had a college education or?
863:  Yes. My mother went through her Junior year at the University of Texas. My father, uh, graduated from Rice and then from Harvard Law School.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What sort of work did your parents do?
863:  My mother was a housewife and my father was a lawyer and also managed all the family estate and business.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Does your family own a lot of land here? In Beaumont?
863:  Yes we have. We sold our, our ranch, uh, about three years ago. Big part of it, now we still have land, a great deal of it. And not only here but in uh, in other parts of West Texas and up in Arkansas. But the big, the main ranch, which was here and, and was the largest in Jefferson County, we sold about three years ago.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Is that where, uh, when you say your family was, or your father's family was
863:  No, my father worked out of an office here in town. My uncle was the one who took care of the ranching part.
Interviewer:  Um.
863:  Division of labor.
Interviewer:  What about your, tell me something about your mother's parents. They were
863:  They were both educated people. My grandfather {B} was the president of the bank up in Nacogdoches.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, my grandmother, I really don't know about her education. It never occurred to me to ask.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I know, uh, that he graduated from Suwanee. You know the University of the South at
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 Suwanee, Tennessee. # And I don't know about her education, but she was certainly an educated person and a very quotes, cultured, unquote person. She was quite active in the arts and in uh, bringing uh, music, and that sort of thing to Nacogdoches and they usually did this through the college which she was quite active in it and every year there was a group from Beaumont, mrs Beamon {B} whose name you would know if you lived here who was mrs Music Commission in Beaumont.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, two or three of her very good friends would stop by and pick her up in Nacogdoches and they would go up to, uh, the opera and, the Starlight Opera, in uh, Dallas every year.
Interviewer:  What was your grandmother's maiden name?
863:  {B} {B} {B} That's a German name? Yes.
Interviewer:  Do you know, um, your, your grandmother's, um, parents. Your, your great-grand?
863:  No, not on either side.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And what about your? Tell me more about your grandparents on your father's side. Here.
863:  Here? My grandfather was a cattleman but he was a whole lot of other things. He was an entrepreneur in many ways. He was the kind of person, when he thought something needed to be founded, he founded it and when they thought they needed a hotel he had one and when he thought they needed a, uh, rice mill, he founded one and he, uh, started, what in that time was the largest rice mill in the South and the largest irrigation system and when when people weren't yet irrigating, they were just beginning irrigation systems. Oh. He just was a person that had a lot of energy and was always acquiring things, and doing things. He owned lots of downtown office buildings, some of which, we still own. He owned, uh, property all over the state. He was always buying.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  He always said, and this of course has been attributed to a number of people, that all I want is what's mine and what's next to it.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And uh, and he did. He kept on acquiring land, then he would sell some and then he would acquire some more and, uh, He would try to c-, corner the steer market one year and he'd always just did lots of things like that. And we have a story that there was something called a golden meadow bridge. I don't know what or where it was. It was a swindle and he got caught in it and lost some money. A hundred thousand dollars in it. There just, he was a, rather fabulous man and I've seen some wonderful old newspaper articles where {NW} on the front page they used to have Perry Mack Says and they would get him to quote on various things that were going on
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 during the day. #
Interviewer:  He was one of the, the settlers? {X}
863:  Well yes, uh, uh, he was born in eighteen fifty-four I believe. Or eighteen fifty-six. Something like that but, um, his you see, my great-great grandfather James came from Tennessee.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It was in the battle of New Orleans in eighteen fifteen and then sometime between eighteen fifteen and eighteen nineteen, married and was living in, in um, Lake Charles.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know those records are rather hard to come by.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  Many of 'em having been burned.
Interviewer:  He came from Montgomery County?
863:  County Tennessee.
Interviewer:  Is that, uh,
863:  #1 Clarksville. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # near Memphis? of
863:  {X}
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And uh, I've been up there looking through records but there's no family bible. It's still in possession of some other descendants that I'd like to get away from them but I don't believe I can.
Interviewer:  {NW} Can you go back, uh, farther than that?
863:  No, and I've been trying to, I, bring in an experienced genealogist for not one at all. I tried to go back because I thought they were born in North Carolina, so I went to North Carolina to look for the generation before that only to find that, uh, when they were born, Tennessee was part of North Carolina.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  So I just need to go look in some other counties in Tennessee and possibly some in Kentucky because it's right on the Kentucky border and there were two other {B} who were obviously kin to them because of the interchange of land between the various members of the family that lived up near Bowling Green, Kentucky.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What country did they come from?
863:  They would have come from Ireland. They were Scotch but you know back when King James the first of Scotland was trying to settle the Irish question, he thought he would do it by sending a lot of Scots over there to live and uh, you notice how well that's been settled if you look at the Irish problems today. It's those Scots that {X} Protestants and they're still fighting. Some of them left and mine evidently left sometime during the seventeen hundreds.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  and came to the United States and I know where a lot of {B} are but I just can't uh, I don't, but would you like to have a cup of coffee?
Interviewer:  Sure.
863:  Alright, bring me some coffee {X}. Sometime in the seventeen hundreds, and I've located a lot of {B} that came through and have been to um, South Carolina I believe it was, North? No, South Carolina to see some, but I can't get mine connected with theirs
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  on paper.
Interviewer:  How do you go about this exactly? I mean where, where do you go #1 Where do you look? #
863:  #2 {X} #
Interviewer:  to look for the records?
863:  Well, uh, in census records to begin with, uh, he was listed, this was what, one of the reasons I was going to North Carolina. In a census record is why James' wife was listed as being born in North Carolina so I thought a-ha!
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I will look for her in North Carolina and you go to their archives, and they will have census records and all kinds of records and service records. All kinds of things and it's a whole lot of looking. And sometimes you just go around and you'll get a whole bunch of names. If you are looking for a David {B} you may find him.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But only one of them is from Montgomery County. So you think, alright this is probably my David, and then you go back and look in the records and you find a will where he's left it to his children, one of which is your grandfather and
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 there # Such a will does exist in Montgomery County, and uh, actually I had better luck with my husband's family. We were also tracing his at the same time and they did come from Newberry District, North Carolina. Found his right away. You would think it'd be easier to find. {B} but we found {B} right away, not any trouble at all.
Interviewer:  Have you, uh, ever wanted to get in the Daughters of the Confederacy or Daughters of the American Revolution or anything like that? Did
863:  I've been trying to get out. {NW} I've been in all those. My grandmother was a great person for all of those wonderful organizations and she belonged to everything you could belong to
Interviewer:  #1 Which grandmother? #
863:  #2 and was the national # This was mrs {B} I'd a call {B} and she was the National Grand Vice President of the D-A-R one year.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I find that, uh, ladies groups tend to talk a lot and eat a lot of party food and not do very many things, except for the Junior League.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  So that I have been more interested, for instance, in historical societies or welfare societies that are actually active.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Tell me something about Beaumont, um, bout, is this the oldest city in this area or is, would
863:  Oh yes!
Interviewer:  #1 Port Author be older? #
863:  #2 No # no. Port Author wasn't founded until the eighteen nineties. As a matter of fact, uh, when Arthur Stillwell founded it, he had bought about, uh, sixty thousand acres of land from my grandfather who then promptly set about
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  buying some more. And, of course he bought it from other people too. Grandfather didn't own all of that but he owned a large part of what is now, South County.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, Beaumont, was probably the first city that now exists that was founded. It was laid out on purpose right after the war for the Independence of Texas. There were a lot of land entrepreneurs. You see, they had been banned by the Spanish before and, and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  the Spanish wouldn't give you land grants and when they did it was, there were a lot of things that, uh, kept people from really coming in. Well, as soon as Texas had won its independence, they poured in all over. And there were more little towns that were set up in Texas and even in this area, I can name you eight or ten that were set up as, as land speculation. Someone would get a grant of land or buy some land from someone who had gotten a grant and then set up a little town site. And some- some lived and some didn't.
Interviewer:  What year was this, eighteen?
863:  And uh, so eighteen thirty-seven
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh.. #
863:  #2 was # the year that, uh, Beaumont was actually set up now Henry {B} bought some land from the {B} whose, in whose land grant the downtown part of Beaumont is situated, in eighteen thirty-five. And then of course the war for independence came and nothing happened, during the war. Or during the hostilities or the upset section, and you understand that the war didn't just actually stop with the Battle of San Jacinto as everyone thinks it did. The Mexicans, for years after, were, would still come in in eighteen forty-two and in other years they would, uh, make raids into Texas and they still wanted it back, you see and they were talking about getting it back and the reason that they went to war with the United States in eighteen forty-eight was because they still wanted Texas back and they didn't think the United States had a right to take it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Was
863:  So uh, so Beaumont was really the first town that was founded that still exists.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Was, is there a, um, considerable Mexican, um
863:  Almost none originally, there is, there is some now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But this is more of a recent thing, uh, they're just sort of making their way here but we did not have much of a Mexican population. We were not ever a Spanish outpost in the early days.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, Spaniards were looking for gold and gold is in them there hill {NW} and not down here in the, in these marshes and they just didn't come down here.
Interviewer:  What about, um, blacks, would there Oh yes. We were not a great slave-holding part of the country. We were still a pioneer part of the country, you see, having only been opened up in the eighteen thirties. In twenty years, we had, uh, perhaps, there are, there are actually records of this and I can get them if you want me to go upstairs. There were perhaps two thousand slaves in the whole, this whole southeast part of Texas. And, hardly anyone owned more than, uh, one or two, #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 or three # There were, there, the largest slaveholders, I think the largest slaveholder here ran a mill and had nineteen slaves.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Most people had one or two house slaves and if they had a pretty good amount of land, they might have had one or two field hands.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  #1 And that was all. This was not a plantation #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 part #
Interviewer:  What percentage of the population would you say
863:  In those days?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  At the time of the Civil War, say, oh very small. I can get you those figures if
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 If you'd # like to see them later.
Interviewer:  Well, what about now, what
863:  Oh, we're about, uh, a third
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  now.
Interviewer:  Has it, what about when you were born? Was it, has that been fairly
863:  Probably, I, I think this has probably been fairly, uh, stable.
Interviewer:  Tell me about your, um, husband. Where he was born and
863:  My husband was born in Paris, Texas. and when he was about six, they moved to Lake Charles, and when he was in high school they moved to Beaumont. And he's
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 lived # here ever since.
Interviewer:  D:{He went} to Beaumont when he was in high school?
863:  Mm-hmm. Graduated from Beaumont High School. And then he went to the Univ- he went two years to Lamar College and then two years to the University of Texas.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Where's Lamar College?
863:  Lamar University is here in Beaumont.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh..
863:  It was Lamar College then. It's Lamar University now.
Interviewer:  #1 I've heard #
863:  #2 But you know # the old habits are hard to come of. Talking about language, I'm still liable to call a Mobile, Magnolia Refinery.
Interviewer:  {NW} It used to be Magnolia?
863:  It used to be Magnolia. Good Southern name. And uh, then the Bethlehem Shipyards used to be the Pennsylvania Shipyards.
Interviewer:  {X}
863:  Wanna just turn it off?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But, uh, this, this dis-, this was about ethnic migrations so that you'd get into East Texas, largely migrations from the other Southern states. Most from Louisiana because it was right next door. They came from somewhere else and lived in Louisiana first.
Interviewer:  Then came
863:  and came here.
Interviewer:  Louisiana or?
863:  Well, we have some right down here in this part of the country. Around Beaumont you have a lot of the Cajuns, but I'm talking about nearly all of East Texas. Say you started in Houston and going on up through Paris, Texas. Most of the people who settled that were sorta plantation type people or farming type communities who came from Southern states. Largely from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana, and a great number from Tennessee. Now particularly, when you get up around Nacogdoches and north you will find {NW} a large number from Tennessee but there were a lot from Tennessee right here. Its,
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 Take # for example my own family. When you get into Central Texas, uh, or around Bastrop and, uh, Industry, and Hempstead and all of those places in there. {X} brother. A large number of Germans. Now these Germans started coming in the eighteen eighties and eighteen nineties and my husband's family were, his mother, was a good German. Her family came in the eighteen eighties from Germany. They settled near Floresville. Uh, in near San Antonio.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. What was #
863:  #2 But there were # {B} excuse me. {B} And uh, they came from Germany.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 We # actually have his naturalization papers and things like this but most of these people who came in were Germans. They came in, through, uh, by sea through Galveston. And at Galveston
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  during those years they actually had a German newspaper. And they spread all up through Central Texas. They took the good, rolling, Black Hills and they made their farms. Now, they had a very, um, bad impression of the East Texans or the Anglo-Texans because they thought they were very sloppy. In the first place, they thought that slavery was very sloppy, having nothing to do with the morals, which they also disproved of. But, uh, and it was a very sloppy and you know you didn't make use of every inch of the land and you weren't thrifty and what have you, and the Germans were. Every inch of their land was planned, and they planned the rotation of their crops. And they planned so much for corn and so much for this and so much for vines and so much for so and so, and they were very thrifty, good citizens and looked down upon the, I would say pleasure-loving, leisurely, lazy type
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  other farmers as wasteful and uh, a few other things that they thought were unpleasant. In North Texas, you were going to have gotten mostly people who came back down from the Midwest. And some, even like Swedes and Norwegians and people that came down from Minnesota and in there.
Interviewer:  Where does
863:  And they were the wheat farmers. North Texas would begin from Dallas and go on up through the panhandle. #1 And those are your wheat farmers. #
Interviewer:  #2 Would Paris be included or would that #
863:  What? No, Paris is, is North from this side. Paris is Northeast Texas, it's, it's more of an East Texas type. Well, it's beginning to be a dividing line. When I said Paris I was really almost using that as a dividing line. But those were Midwesterners and they had a whole different outlook on life from either the Germans or the Eastern Texans.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, the language is different, uh, my mother, I, I put an r on mother. She would say mother. {C: pronunciation - r is dropped} Like on the other hand, everything that ended in an A like my sister's name Aida. It was "Ai-der".
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  {X} Sometimes I found that the Bostonians do some of these same things but with a different accent. But, uh, the deep East Texas drawl is entirely different from what you hear of Lyndon Johnson in the, in West Texas.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  His has got more of a white twang and a whine to it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. When did your mother, uh, well she, I guess she moved down here when, after she got married.
863:  When she married my father.
Interviewer:  So she was in her twenties or
863:  Yes, about twenty one I think.
Interviewer:  When did Beaumont really start getting to be a big
863:  Well, Beaumont has had two main times when it grew. It was a nice lazy little town but when they began doing a great deal of lumbering, oh, in the eighteen fifties and sixties and on up, the heyday of the lumbering was the eighteen seventies, and eighties and nineties.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, we had about, uh seven lumber mills here right along the river. And this was before railroads went in. You see by the eighteen eighties and nineties railroads were going up then you no longer
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 used # the river. And then they would build the sawmills closer to
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 the # um, source. So then all the sawmills grew up up in east Texas but before that there were about seven or eight sawmills right down here in Beaumont and the lumber was floated down. And uh, you had a big sawmill town but it was a town of perhaps around five thousand people
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  in nineteen hundred when Spindletop came in.
Interviewer:  What is Spindletop?
863:  Alright, Spindletop, oh good heavens surely you know about
Interviewer:  I-
863:  Spindletop.
Interviewer:  something to do with finding oil. I know that.
863:  Alright, oil had been found in about eighteen fifty-seven I think in Titusville, Tenne-, eh Pennsylvania. And uh, this was all oil. It had been found in other places over the world but this was all oil that you pumped out of the ground in small quantity. And uh, they came down in the eighteen nineties and early nineteen hundreds trying to drill for oil around here. They had found a little up in Nacogdoches.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And near {D: course Akenah}. But, again, this was oil that you pumped out.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And in small quantities. When they pumped, when they drilled for oil in nineteen oh one here, it blew out in a tremendous gusher. Gushing hundreds of thousands of barrels. And it was just, in the first place it was a different geology from anything that had been accepted before. And uh, it was in quantities that had never been dreamed of.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And the reason that mr Henry Ford and the other people could invent a cheap automobile and mass produce them was because there was fuel for them. There's no point in inventing something for which there's no fuel.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Nobody is right now inventing a cheap car run on atomic fuel because we can't get it yet, but as soon as the government announces we now have a way of putting cheap fuel in a battery or something and you can run your cars on it you'll have 'em. So that this was really where oil, this is our catchword, where oil became an industry.
Interviewer:  So is Spindletop the name of the place or?
863:  Spindletop was the name of the hill.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It was called Spindletop Hill and um, it happened to come in on my grandfather's land. He was a very handy ancestor to have, uh, he and his two partners who were his, the husbands of his cousins. Uh, who had lived with him, on this, and they called it the Beaumont Pasture Company. And uh, they were running cattle on it and he used to take his, so they'd tell me, he used to take his dogs down there and dip 'em in those sulfur springs down there to get rid of the ticks and the fleas. And uh, so they brought in Spindletop and of course then they began bringing it out of other salt domes. This was the whole new geology for them and then of course Geology had developed tremendously since then. But it was where, we say, oil became an industry.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Well, it was a phenomenon, you understand, it got wide publicity. Everyone from all over the world came. It was a marvelous story, my grandmother was a very beautiful woman and she loved jewelry and had a lot of it. In those days they used to wear what they called a stomacher which was a big piece of jewelry that went down upon a part of her where she was very prominent. And they would tell the story that she was dancing with this French count and he had a little Van Dyke beard and at the end he made her a glorious bow and got his beard tangled in her jewels and the dance had to stop while his secretary had to come out and untangle his beard from my grandmother's jewels. But it was a very exciting time and there were so many people here and uh, you know, people from all over the world were just piling in and there was no place for them to stay and people were sleeping in ships and there wasn't enough food to go around, there wasn't enough water to go around and there were the usual little diseases that follow crowded conditions without proper sanitation, and it was very exciting though and people, um, were making money and losing it overnight. Mostly making it at the time, and people were printing bogus land deals and, and bogus, uh, titles and stocks and all this other stuff.
Interviewer:  How long did, did that last?
863:  Well, I would say that lasted a year or two, the main part of the boom, and then things probably got kind of settled down and then eventually, and they've pumped Spindletop for a good while and eventually it sort of petered out and by the early nineteen twenties it had pretty well settled down. And then in nineteen twenty-five, they found a new, uh, discovery you see they had just got one pool or one
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  particular sand or something in the first one. They found a, uh, little new geology they, I think its flank production. And uh,
Interviewer:  Here in Beaumont?
863:  Oh, same field. It's still pumping today. But now they're also getting sulfur and brine out of it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see, it's a salt dome so they, they pump out the, the brine, and it's used in various, uh, chemical, all these chemical plants have to have brine. It's part of their {X} Then they're getting the sulfur out, I must take you to see the sulfur. It looks like a city of gold, it's just these tremendous huge blocks as big as the city block of gold. Of, you know, the sulfur.
Interviewer:  Is the um, petrochemical industry as
863:  #1 This is #
Interviewer:  #2 big here as #
863:  large, largest centers of petrochemical industry right here.
Interviewer:  Um, Lake Charles too is the boun-
863:  Lake Charles, you see, Lake Charles and Baton Rouge are now outstripping us. At the time of the Second World War, we were told that we were probably the fifth most important target in the United States because of the petrochemical indu- industry here. And of course Houston,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  is uh, growing all the time along with Baytown and all of that area. And uh, but we, you see, we've had five large refineries here. There's a Texaco refinery and a Gulf refinery, and a Mobil refinery and
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 and a # couple of other small ones. And it's been a tremendous petrochemical industry here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then we have DuPont Plant. We're getting a new steel plant, Georgetown Steel.
Interviewer:  Tell me some more about your, um, husband. How old is he, and
863:  Uh, he's fifty-eight. And he's president of the bank. The bank, I want you to understand.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  President of First Security National Bank here.
Interviewer:  Is that the largest bank here?
863:  Yes it is. And he's also President of the Holding company, it's the Ten Bank Holding Company.
Interviewer:  Um, he's episcopal too I guess?
863:  Yes. A convert; however, he was raised Methodist.
Interviewer:  And, I guess he has a college degree in
863:  Yes, he got a college degree in business, B.B.A degree from the University of Texas.
Interviewer:  Is he as active as you are in an organization?
863:  Yes, indeed. Very little of his time is his own. If he didn't enjoy doing it, it would be bad.
Interviewer:  What sort of things is he involved with?
863:  Well, he's the, um, chairman, or the president of the Lucas Gusher Monument Association, which is trying to get the Spindletop Museum. There is a Spindletop Museum here, but it's just a beginning.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  We're using the old {X} Geological Building which has been given to us. But we wanna build, uh, a real good oil museum but also with a history section, a general museum out in conjunction with the college.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And he's been chairman of the All Saint's Episcopal School board, he's been the president of the Rotary Club. He's now had some positions with the banks, uh, he's, you know, banking thing, He's gonna be a district chairman I think, I guess he will. Let's see, oh I don't know, he's been, um, president of the Central Daycare Center.
Interviewer:  What's that?
863:  He's been on, it was a, you know, a daycare center for children whose mothers work.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, it's, you know, for those who, in lower economic class. He's been, um, on United Fields Board, and let's see, what else. Red Cross Board, I think. On the uh, no I was on the Red Cross Board. I believe he was on the Sabine Oaks Board.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Sabine Oaks is an old people's home. You know, that sort of thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  He's also been vestryman at the church and
Interviewer:  Where, he was born in Paris, um,
863:  Texas.
Interviewer:  was his father born there?
863:  No, I think his father was born in Arkansas.
Interviewer:  Do you know where in Arkansas?
863:  Uh, near Prescott, Arkansas.
Interviewer:  And do you know about his ancestry, going back farther than that?
863:  Well, yes we traced him back to North Carolina.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  His {B} they came from North Carolina to Arkansas.
Interviewer:  Where before North Carolina, what
863:  Oh, we hadn't gone back any further than that. We've gone back two generations in Arkansas, I mean in uh, uh, North Carolina and one to a great-great-great-grandmother of his whose name was {B} and we haven't gone back
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  We have to make another trip. {NW}
Interviewer:  {NW} Um, I'd like to get an idea of what the house that you grew up in looked like. Um, did, did you move around much?
863:  No, lived in the same house from the time I was three months old and this is the only house I've lived in, uh, except that we lived in an apartment for one year after we were married and then
Interviewer:  #1 mm-hmm #
863:  #2 moved into # this house.
Interviewer:  Could you sorta make a sketch of first the house that you remember as a child and just the floor plan, you know, with the names of the rooms or, um, and then the
863:  Well now, it's been added on to since I lived there as a child. I mean while I was still
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  living there though. Yes, I could do that. Wanna turn that off?
Interviewer:  Well no, just
863:  Cause it'll be a long vacant space. Let's see, hmm know whether I can do this or not. Not gonna come out quite right but we'll try it. This is not quite right.
Interviewer:  Does your mother still live there?
863:  My mother and father both. The, the, I'm sorry I'm, I'm not getting these rooms quite
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
863:  #2 they're not in the quite # in the Okay. See, this room is too large, we'll just have to take out that area right there. And this room, you see is a little bit longer that that. This is the pantry along the garden. Mm-hmm. Now this room comes down to here. The kitchen is here and there's a breakfast room out here.
Interviewer:  See, call out the
863:  Alright, you see, you enter here through this entry. The living room and the dining room, and there's a long butler's pantry here with an outside door and then the kitchen. And that's a breakfast room that's off of the thing. Now this, should stop here and this should be the break, the, the um, bedroom.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And this space between the dining room and the living room, is it just before the dining room
863:  This should be part of the dining room, yes. And then, uh, this, there's a hall here, and this should all be living room I guess, we'll just have to put that in this living room.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Then there's a den or a library here and there's a bedroom here, a bath here and a bedroom, bedroom there and a bath in the bedroom.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Now, when I was a child this was a sleeping porch as we called it. Everybody had a sleeping porch but it was glassed in and then this bedroom was added later and this breakfast room was added later.
Interviewer:  This bedroom that extends
863:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 out #
863:  It was added when I was in, uh, college.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then, so was the breakfast room. Now we had a garage that was out here and went out this way and that was taken out and this became a, my father had a workshop out there and there were servant's quarters on there and the garage now is over here and faces the street on that side.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And this used up a quarter of a block.
Interviewer:  You, call this a sl-, said this, this bedroom back here was a sleep-
863:  sleeping porch.
Interviewer:  What's the distinction between a
863:  Well, a sleeping porch used to have a whole lotta beds and not anything else in it and you went out there to sleep.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And this was done a lot in the South, in the, especially in, you know, you used to just screen in a porch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And sometimes they weren't glassed in at all, they were only screened in, and you slept out there in the summers particularly. And this, you know, people had a lot of T-B, and this was considered particularly good for you, or to keep you from having T-B and what have you. And then down on the beach even, uh, everybody had a sleeping porch, and it was just, sometimes you just had awnings, and then later on they were all glassed in because the, 'course the storms would come in and everything would get wet. But you would have, uh, a long porch and just lines of beds on it and everybody slept
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  out on the sleeping porch.
Interviewer:  Just because it was more comfortable?
863:  Well, yes I mean the breeze came right through the sleeping porch and everybody went out there and, uh, you slept on the sleeping porch. You came in and dressed in what were supposedly the bedrooms, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  but there were usually not even any beds in the bedrooms. Uh, sometimes yes and sometimes no, depending on whether or not you used them, in the winter. We almost never used our beach houses in the winter. And uh, a lot of people do now.
Interviewer:  What beach would, would this be {X}
863:  This would be down on the Bolivar Peninsula which is between here and Galveston.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about
863:  We all had beach houses.
Interviewer:  This house here, can you make a
863:  #1 It's #
Interviewer:  #2 sketch of this. #
863:  called an arm and cottage.
Interviewer:  This house is?
863:  Yes, that was what they built. When you look at it There's this around here, this I think came out like this. And then there's another one that out right about there I guess.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then that one went out on the end. And it's brick, and there's a fireplace right here and this fireplace went up, way, you know, and then
Interviewer:  Like which
863:  Now this, this would be where the living room and the entry were. The entry.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's out there, I may not be doing this exactly right and then that would be the dining room
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 So that you'd # looked at it, it was sort of, it had lots of gables. It could have been the house of seven gables I guess. I never counted them.
Interviewer:  What about this house here? Could you make a, a floor plan?
863:  Yes, if you need it. Alright, that one might be easier to do. There's a playroom back here which you can't see and a porch.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear any old-fashioned names for porch?
863:  Oh, depends on who you're talking to. Uh, around my grandmother's house, which I will show you a picture of, it's on the National Registry, was called a veranda.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, a lot of people called it the porch. I never actually heard anyone call it a piazza or something like that but I had read
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 the word # and I knew that they meant the same thing. That my aunt and my grandmother always meant by the veranda.
Interviewer:  Which grandmother was this?
863:  Now,
Interviewer:  The
863:  This was {B} grandmother. And uh, you understand that they had a front porch, I mean a back porch and a front veranda but they also called it porch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  #1 because #
Interviewer:  #2 It was just #
863:  it depended on whether or not you had pretensions or not. You know, everybody, does this sort of thing.
Interviewer:  Would you ever use the word veranda nowadays, or does it sound old-fashioned to you?
863:  Oh, I think it's quite old-fashioned.
Interviewer:  What about the term, gallery?
863:  I almost never heard anyone refer to, what I would call a porch, as a gallery except for the upper stair, the upper porch
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  of an old house, like an old Southern one. The gallery was the upper porch
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  rather than, I mean than I'm sure this is not necessarily true everywhere else but if you went out on the gallery I always think of you as being on the upper porch.
Interviewer:  mm.
863:  You went out on the porch, or the veranda in the bottom, but the gallery was, uh, like the upper porch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I'm not sure wh-, where that came from. It was just what I always heard. You want the upstairs too?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Alright. And the first floor, in my terminology, was the ground floor, not like the British who refer to the first floor up above the ground floor as the first floor.
Interviewer:  Call out the different
863:  Alright. Well, you can read those. Playroom. This is the porch.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 And it is a porch. # It's right on the side of the terrace. And the garage. Dining room, kitchen, breakfast room, living room, den or library.
Interviewer:  What about this?
863:  That's the stairs, in the hall.
Interviewer:  Okay.
863:  See when you. Stairs go up the front hall. mm. There are two dressing rooms back here and two baths. Why do you need ... this?
Interviewer:  Well just, the names of the rooms. Old-fashioned name somethings.
863:  {D: Are you gonna go back and} viewed anyone else in this area?
Interviewer:  Not here.
863:  Not in Beaumont? Has anyone else? Is anyone else doing this area?
Interviewer:  No.
863:  Very curious why you need I, I, I will tell you why. We just had a robbery in this neighborhood this weekend. A major robbery.
Interviewer:  I think I heard something about that.
863:  Mm-hmm. I, I'm really reluctant to give a whole floor plan of my house to
Interviewer:  Well, no it's, well thi-
863:  As a matter of fact, my parents had a robbery not long ago.
Interviewer:  Well, okay things like some houses people would call a shotgun house
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  you know, and they'd have um, okay someone's trying to describe somethings like a, a dog trot or a dog run
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Um, as a, what some people would call a hall, you know, between two sections of the house?
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Um, yeah just a
863:  Yes, I heard both a dog trot and dog run, I've heard both used for a, mostly for an open porch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Not one that's been closed in, and we even use it for our house over at the French Trading Post, which is our museum here. It was built very much as a Southern home but it was built by people who came down from New York and Connecticut and so they enclosed it with doors, front and back. But of course they would have stood open during the summer.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  So we still call it our dog trot, although it really isn't. It's a hall.
Interviewer:  Well that's the
863:  #1 I mean this is the kind of a thing. #
Interviewer:  #2 the reason that # that the sketch thing is for, just
863:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 to # like, okay like the sleeping porch, um,
863:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 you know just # to
863:  to get down what
Interviewer:  #1 just to get an idea #
863:  #2 the rooms are #
Interviewer:  you know
863:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 what it # it was exactly. I can see how
863:  We called the, yeah well, all of a sudden I just, {NW} I just thought about this, you know where, {NW} we had just had, uh, both of this house and, and the one across the street have just been robbed in the last month, and all of a sudden, I, I, it isn't that I want to
Interviewer:  Well I can
863:  You can see how all of a sudden I, I had this disquieting feeling.
Interviewer:  What, you called the, a butler's pantry
863:  Pantry.
Interviewer:  What was that exactly?
863:  Alright, uh, in my grandmother's house particularly, you have a pantry, it's not, it's a separate room from the kitchen. And usually, because in the old houses they had a great deal to store, they stored all of their china, and their, uh, crystal, and you know glasses, everything, in there. And the butler, and they had a butler, stayed in the pantry and he polished silver, he did a lot of those things. The cook cooked and the butler
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 took # care of the rest of this. And, um, 'course the cook helped wash dishes and the butler would dry and this sort of thing when they were having a lot of it, but the butler's pantry was also the pantry, in which, he would stop and, and fix trays and do things like this. Now, the cook, he wa-, he went into the kitchen, it was his job, this is just an old-fashioned thing, his job was to go into the kitchen and take the food
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 and then # get it to whoever it was to go to and whomever, if uh, it was to go upstairs for breakfast, you see all breakfasts
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  were taken upstairs, except for my grandfather who always ate downstairs, on trays. And each one of 'em had one of those flip-top tables in each room that, that um, usually sat in front of the fireplace in the summer but was somewhere else in the winter.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of, um, different kinds of kitchens or different names for kitchens or, say, a kitchen built separate from the rest of the house.
863:  Yes, they had those quite frequently, um, in the South in the old days because of the danger of fire and also because of the heat in the summer. Oh, I think the danger of fire was the main thing
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 and you had # no fire departments and no way to put them out so
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  your fires generally started in the kitchen so they often had a detached kitchen.
Interviewer:  #1 Was it, #
863:  #2 and thats # what we
Interviewer:  #1 this called a #
863:  #2 called it #
Interviewer:  kitchen or
863:  Well, no, sometimes they would have two kitchens and that would be called a summer kitchen. Have you ever heard it called summer kitchen?
Interviewer:  The one that was separate?
863:  The one that was separate would be
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh.. #
863:  #2 called a # summer kitchen.
Interviewer:  Was that very common around here?
863:  Uh, no, but I've heard it called that, and I've even heard the only kitchen referred to as the summer kitchen.
Interviewer:  A, a kitchen even if it was attached to the house, could sometimes be called a summer kitchen?
863:  No, the summer kitchen was always, uh, either detached, or um, or, or semi-detached. It #1 would have been #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  separate enough from the, um, main building so that the heat would not go up in #1 to the #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  main building.
Interviewer:  Um, talk about a fireplace, the thing that the smoke goes up through, would you
863:  Chimney.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Chimney.
Interviewer:  And
863:  Sometimes flue.
Interviewer:  The part, that's made of bricks that comes
863:  Hearth.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Hearth.
Interviewer:  And the thing you set the wood on?
863:  The grate, or the firedogs, or the fire iron.
Interviewer:  And, the thing up above there that you
863:  That's the mantle.
Interviewer:  And
863:  Sometimes mantelpiece.
Interviewer:  Which would you probably call it?
863:  Mantle.
Interviewer:  Say if you wanted to start a fire, what kind of wood would you use to start it with?
863:  Kindling.
Interviewer:  Is that, any special kind of wood, or?
863:  No, kindling was usually just wood that was split very small so that it #1 would #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  start. It could be sticks too and sometimes pine cones.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, kindling was not necessarily wood, it was what you used to kindle a fire but usually it was very thin split little pieces of wood.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Because then they caught easily.
Interviewer:  What #1 about #
863:  #2 And then you put the # bricks, then you put the larger
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 logs # on.
Interviewer:  What would you call a big piece of wood that you could set toward the back of the fireplace that might burn all night?
863:  Just the log, I guess, but uh, they did always call it the, um, the backlog.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the stuff that forms in the chimney? The black
863:  Soot.
Interviewer:  And what you shovel out?
863:  Ashes.
Interviewer:  And, talking about things you'd have in a room, um, the, that thing there would be called a
863:  Just a chair, uh, possibly an armchair but mostly just a chair. Armchair, to me, is something a little bit more, uh, for instance, the chair in the next room that, that um, has a wonderful back to it, and what have
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 you. That # Chippendale armchair back there. Or those, loungers there would probably be called an armchair.
Interviewer:  What would you call this longer thing that we're sitting on?
863:  I'd call it a sofa or a couch. Either one, interchange-
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 -ably. #
Interviewer:  Any other names, old-fashioned names or anything?
863:  Not that I would call it.
Interviewer:  And, what sort of things would people have in their bedroom to keep their clothes in?
863:  Well, I have a closet, and I have, um, I've heard it called, bureau, we call it mostly just the chest.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 you know # chest of drawers. I've heard it called a bureau and they used to call it, a long time ago, a chiffonier, but I don't call it a chiffonier. I never have, I just remember its being called that.
Interviewer:  That just has drawers in it?
863:  It just has drawers in it. And uh, we've never had an armoire in either one of, either my mother's or ours. But, uh, we do have them over at the French Trading Post and those. I've also heard these called a clothes-press
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  or an armoire. I think the armoire comes because of the French influence but
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  but, uh, they also were called clothes-presses.
Interviewer:  They were something you could hang clothes in?
863:  They were something, that you could hang clothes but some clothes-presses had, uh, shelves in them, and you could put your linens in them and your linens were not necessarily sheets and towels, they were a gentleman's linens
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  which meant shirts and things like that. That's an old-fashioned term, nobody refers to gentlemen's shirts anymore as his linens.
Interviewer:  What general name would you have for the different, um, chairs and things you'd have in your house? You'd call that all the?
863:  Well, if you want to start in the dining room, you have an armchair and side chairs.
Interviewer:  Or just a, a general name for the
863:  #1 You mean like this #
Interviewer:  #2 sofa #
863:  furniture?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Furniture.
Interviewer:  And, something on, um, well, some of them roll as you're putting the window to pull down.
863:  Shade.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Shade. A window shade.
Interviewer:  The, covering on the house is called a
863:  Roof.
Interviewer:  And the things along the edge of the roof? To carry the water off?
863:  Gutters.
Interviewer:  Is that built in or is it hung, or what?
863:  Depends on the house. I have some that are built in around my, mine, in fact all of mine were built in but they were always full of leaves so I've had them covered and now my roof drips
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  so that I have a drip line, and it's much easier because the leaves, they all get in and gum it up.
Interviewer:  What do you mean, drip line?
863:  Well, you see the, instead of being collected in the gutter and running off the side like it used to
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, it just drips all around so that, you know, it just comes
Interviewer:  #1 Oh I see. #
863:  #2 down in little # sheets as a drip line all the way around. That's, the drip line is the line, really, that you, h-, get on the ground.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's not something that's on the roof.
Interviewer:  And, say if you have a house in an L, you know, the place where the roofs join, that low place would be called a?
863:  Valley.
Interviewer:  And, say if you had a lot of old, worthless things like old broken furniture that wasn't any good. What might you call that? You say it wasn't
863:  Junk, I guess. I,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  A junk?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I don't know if it's worthless, it's just junk. {NW}
Interviewer:  And a room that could be used to store odds and ends in would be?
863:  Storeroom.
Interviewer:  Do you
863:  Possibly attic. #1 If it's #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  up on the third floor, you know?
Interviewer:  And, say a woman would say if her house is in a big mess, you'd say she had to do what to it?
863:  Straighten it up?
Interviewer:  And the thing
863:  Clean it?
Interviewer:  What, what you could sweep with would be a?
863:  A broom.
Interviewer:  And say if the broom was in the corner, and the door was open, so the door sort of hiding the broom. You'd say the broom was?
863:  Well I don't keep my broom in a corner, I don't know what I would call that. The broom would be hidden.
Interviewer:  Well, in relation to the door, it would be?
863:  Behind the door.
Interviewer:  And, years ago, on Monday, women would get the dirty clothes together and then do the?
863:  The washing.
Interviewer:  And on Tuesday, they'd do the?
863:  Ironing.
Interviewer:  What would you call washing and ironing together?
863:  Well, they're really still the washing and the ironing, now, I, we often say do the laundry and we have a little room out beyond which we call the laundry room.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But the washing was what you did at home, the laundry was what you sent
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  when I was a child.
Interviewer:  What about, um,
863:  Don't ask me why but that was the way it was.
Interviewer:  You may have, have seen or heard about a big glass thing they have in the yard to heat the water.
863:  You mean one of those great big old wash pots?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Those big iron pots.
Interviewer:  #1 Any other #
863:  #2 It's just a # big iron pot.
Interviewer:  Any other names for that?
863:  Not that I've ever used. I wouldn't be surprised but, um, but they have some good Louisiana names for them.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about, um, something you'd heat up water to make hot tea in?
863:  Tea kettle.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the wash pot called the kettle?
863:  No, except in the old saying like, uh, the pot calls the kettle black. And
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 obviously # that is the kind of. There used to be a small round kettle, as they would call it, that hung over a fire. It would have a, it wasn't something so, at least to me, it wasn't something that was big like a wash pot. Anything that was that big was a pot.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And anything that sat on the fire, itself, was a pot. But something that hung could be called a kettle.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But, you know, the kettle sometimes had a spout and sometimes didn't.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But I've always thought that the pot calling the kettle black I believe, obviously meant two things, that were, uh, that were over the fire.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Because the kind of kettles we have nowadays don't ever get black.
Interviewer:  What about something that people would fry eggs in nowadays?
863:  Be a frying pan or a skillet.
Interviewer:  What's the difference?
863:  None.
Interviewer:  And to get from the porch to the ground, you'd have some
863:  Steps.
Interviewer:  And if the door was open, and you didn't want it to be, you'd ask somebody to
863:  Close the door. You might say shut the door, but I really don't, I say
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 close. #
Interviewer:  And on some houses you have boards that lap over each other, you'd call that?
863:  You're talking about the siding.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And if you wanted to hang up a picture, you'd take a nail and a
863:  And a hammer.
Interviewer:  You'd say i took the hammer, and I what the nail in?
863:  Drove the nail in.
Interviewer:  And if it didn't get far enough, you'd say it's got to be, what, in further?
863:  Driven in further.
Interviewer:  And you'd say you have to, what the nail in?
863:  Hit.
Interviewer:  Or
863:  Tap if I don't want 'em to hit it very hard.
Interviewer:  Okay, or you'd say I get in my car and I, what, to town?
863:  I drove to town.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  I would, if you want a nice one, I've never used this but my grandmother and my aunt always said when they were going downtown, and I say I'm going downtown. They say I'm going down the street.
Interviewer:  Meaning down?
863:  Downtown. They meant they were going down to shop. I'm going down the street. They did not mean they were just going down the street in which they lived.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Although, when it started, they may have been doing that, they were living
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 closer into # town.
Interviewer:  And, before they had bathrooms inside the, what did they call the toilets they had outside.
863:  Outhouse. Or back house. We- I've always referred to it as an outhouse.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Any
863:  Or privy
Interviewer:  Which
863:  Now privy, oh, well now, privy was what you said if you were, had pretensions. It's like
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Calling a veranda instead of a porch. Your plain folks you can went to the porch and the outhouse but #1 you were #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  a little bit more refined or- or at least had pretensions on t-, to being, to being refined, why then, you said you had a veranda and went to the privy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Any crude or jokes
863:  Oh, I've heard 'em called chick sales and things like that but I #1 never used #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  it myself, I've just heard other people call it that.
Interviewer:  And a building that could be used to store would in would be called a?
863:  Wood shed.
Interviewer:  What about for tools?
863:  Tool shed.
Interviewer:  And, on a farm, what different buildings would there be or what different animals, and where would they be kept?
863:  Well, on our farm, which we had as part of our ranching, uh, activities, besides several barns, and a silo, there were also what we called sheds in which they kept various pieces of equipment. There was, a, smokehouse, there was a chicken house. There was a hog pen. There were outhouses. There was the, um, dormitory house, which really became the main house later because the people who worked for us, see, often slept there.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, um, Let's see what else they had, they had a butchering shed, we had uh, the sheds were used various things. Everything was called a shed, nearly, that wasn't exactly a barn. And there was one where they ground up cane and boiled it and made syrup.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  There was, uh, where they butchered the hogs, uh, and they made sausage. Let's see what other buildings there were.
Interviewer:  What did they call the upper part of the barn, or did?
863:  Hay loft.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Or the loft.
Interviewer:  And if you had too much hay to put in the loft, you could leave it outside in a?
863:  Well, I don't think we ever did that. We didn't leave it outside in a haystack if that's what you're talking about.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  They would have always been stored in one of the sheds.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see?
Interviewer:  Do you ever, um, hear a term for, well, the people {NS}
Interviewer:  A long time ago, to cut the hay they'd let it dry and then they'd rake it up in little piles and then they'd
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  They'd call those piles a
863:  And they, there's a term for it, and I really just can't think of it right now.
Interviewer:  You ever hear of a shock or doodle or heap or cock of hay? Anything like that?
863:  Well, of course a shock I've heard of but that's a corn shock.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  And, if you cut the hay off of a piece of land and enough grows back you can cut it again the same year, you'd call that the?
863:  Second cutting.
Interviewer:  And, a building that could be used for storing corn would be a?
863:  Corn crib.
Interviewer:  Was that part of the barn or separate?
863:  Oh no, it was always a separate building. Well, it could have been. The corn crib could've been, you- for instance, uh, and I have seen it this way, where you have a barn with a whole lotta stalls in it #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 for #
863:  the different horses, or what have you, and they would use one stall and call it the corn crib. Yes, I've seen it that way. We did have a corn crib and it was a different building; however, I'll tell you it was half of a building and one half of it was the corn crib and the other half you kept tools in. So it was a dual-purpose building.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about a building used for storing grain? You'd call that the?
863:  Well, you know, we don't store grain, uh, on the farm except that in which we're going to use to feed the, the cattle or the poultry. So, I, I #1 really don't know what we would've called that. #
863:  #2 {NW} # Excuse me please. {X}
Interviewer:  Um, do you ever hear of a granary or a granary? {C: granary pronunciations differ}
863:  Well, I've read the term but, uh, I don't think you'll find that's very commonly used down here. Now, we, what we have down here, the main grain we raise down here, is rice. And those you put in dryers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  So that even, uh, uh, um somebody's individual property, sometimes they will buy one of these metal buildings that they use to store the dry rice but they have to
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 dry it # first, otherwise, it'll spoil.
Interviewer:  They call the whole building-thing the dryer?
863:  Dryer.
Interviewer:  And, the animals that you milk would be?
863:  Cows.
Interviewer:  Where would they be kept?
863:  They would probably be kept in the barn.
Interviewer:  What about a fenced-in place around the barn? Where the animals could walk around?
863:  Well, the lot I guess, the cow lot. Um, for horses, of course, I've heard it called something different, so, there was always the barn lot. You see, that was
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  uh, right around the barn where you herded them into and then into the barn when you, uh, were going to milk them and then you let 'em back out.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And you had a pasture, then, which was right, and there were different pastures,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  you know, they were all fenced in, and you would put 'em in one pasture and then another. But the barn lot or the cow lot.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  It would really be called the barn lot.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a, sort of a makeshift, fenced in place out in the pasture where you could shut the cows up for milking?
863:  I've heard of it, I don't think we ever used one. But, you know, they will have makeshift ones when they're, uh, rounding up cattle.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Big cattle to ship to market or sometimes they have to make a temporary corral
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  out there to get cattle to inoculate them or do something else.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of something called the milk gap or a cow pen?
863:  N- cow pen yes but milk gap no.
Interviewer:  What was a cow pen like?
863:  Well the cow pen would've probably been that same barn lot that I talked #1 about #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  for us. Now, for other, other people it would've been different but I'm only talking about our practices
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  because they're the only ones I really know.
Interviewer:  And, if you had a lot of milk cows and a commercial place for them that had
863:  Dairy.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word dairy used to refer to anything else besides a commercial farm like that?
863:  Yes. Sometimes people called, uh, the milk room, in an old fashioned house, the dairy.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  They used to have, sometimes, either a room or a milk building, a milk shed, where they, uh, stored the milk and usually this would have, maybe, a well or something cool down in it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, often, milk was kept down where you had your well but, uh, we used to have a milk room. My aunt still has one and it was the only brick part of the building, other than the foundations and the fireplaces.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And that was, kept it cooler. And the milk, uh, used to be put in big crocks and, uh, before you had refrigeration and allow it to stand and then the cream would form on the #1 top and then it would #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  be skimmed and then it would be bottled and put in the refrigerator, or, what was then, called the icebox.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. This
863:  To me there's no difference between icebox and refrigerator now, but I know what it was then because
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  we had both.
Interviewer:  This milk room, it, at your family's house, was that built onto the house
863:  Yes
Interviewer:  then?
863:  it was. #1 And #
Interviewer:  #2 And #
863:  uh, the milk was brought up from the farm each morning. #1 I haven't, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  I used to pasteurize my own right here, when my children were small. And this has been long time past the time when #1 other people #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  were getting milk but we had the farms and we had the cows and so they came in each day and brought milk and then vegetables and things like that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Um, a place where people could, could store potatoes and turnips during the winter? They'd call that?
863:  That would've been called a root cellar but we never had one. But I know, uh, that they had root cellars.
Interviewer:  And, say if you raise a lot of corn you'd say you raised a big?
863:  Crop.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and you'd say cotton would grow out in a?
863:  Field.
Interviewer:  What about something smaller than a field?
863:  Well, not for cotton you're talking about?
Interviewer:  No, just
863:  Something like your own garden plot.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  That would be, or just the garden or the vegetable garden.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a patch?
863:  Yes. After all that was what Peter Rabbit was in was
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  mr McGregor's garden, I think it was a patch wasn't it?
Interviewer:  Would D:{you}
863:  But we didn't call it that. No, actually, patch used to be referred to as a cotton patch
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  sometimes too. But, uh, it wasn't a term that I ever used outside of hearing it in Uncle Remus or something like that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And if you wanted to break up the ground for planting you'd break it up with a?
863:  Are you talking about the old times or now? Nowadays you'll disc it {NW} with a tractor but in the old days you would've probably broken it up with, um, spade or a shovel.
Interviewer:  Or something that would have horses?
863:  Oh, a plow, yes.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear different names for different kinds of old-fashioned plows?
863:  Yes, they, they were shaped differently and were used for different things, for instance, there was a particular one that you used was called a root plow which would be one of the first ones you'd use in trying to plow up a new field and get the roots of the trees out of it. #1 That was #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  a root plow. And then they would, they would have different ones, now, I've never plowed and I really have only seen these not, uh, in general knowledge or my own knowledge but, uh, you know, from their use but in the museum. We #1 have some #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  in our French Trading Post Museum and one of the ones we have is a root plow.
Interviewer:  What about something that would break up the ground finer than a plow? Had little teeth in it?
863:  harrow?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Were there different kinds of those?
863:  Probably but I really wouldn't know.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a, um, tool called a, a lizard?
863:  Yes but I don't know what it is or what it was. And only this because, uh, I have a list of tools. I got a little booklet on tools that people used and looked it over and then put it in the museum library.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And you ran across lizard in that?
863:  I think I ran across lizard in that. There were, there were a lot of those terms, I don't, I don't have that book here, it's in the museum. #1 {D:You're always acquiring} #
Interviewer:  #2 I'd be interested in #
863:  books. I really would like to know what it was but, uh, I remember reading all these terms and I #1 know #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  that that was one of them. But I have not the faintest idea of what it was because I really wasn't that interested.
Interviewer:  I'd like to see that book if, is, is that #1 at the museum? #
863:  #2 It's at the museum, # uh-huh.
Interviewer:  Huh, so that's a
863:  I think it was in that book.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I have quite a number of books on old terminology. I'll go look and see if I have some here in a minute.
Interviewer:  When you're, uh, growing cotton, you have to get out and
863:  Go ahead.
Interviewer:  thin the cotton out with a hoe, what do you say you're doing to it?
863:  Oh, there was a term besides thinning but I don't remember what it was.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear chopped cotton or?
863:  Yes. But chopping cotton, well, that was partly thinning, but also, chopping weeds.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You see, chopping cotton was also chopping weeds. I think it, I think both
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  the term covered both. See if I don't have this dictionary, oh I believe it's upstairs.
Interviewer:  Um, what different kinds of grass would grow up in the cotton field?
863:  Probably Johnson grass. Maybe Crab grass but we would've all called, called nearly anything that grew up in the cotton field a weed.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Because it wasn't supposed to be there.
Interviewer:  And what different kinds of fences did people have around here, or would they have nowadays?
863:  Well, nowadays, most everyone will have a cyclone fence or a hurricane fence and those are the same thing just chain link.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But um, you might also have a picked fence and of course a lot of people had, um, split-rail fences
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  in early Texas, before you had a barbwire, and bobbed-wire is what we call it instead of barbed wire.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  A bob wire fence.
Interviewer:  Say if you were going to set up a fence like that you'd have to dig holes for the?
863:  You'd have a post hole digger.
Interviewer:  #1 And you dig #
863:  #2 And you # put a post in it and then you'd string your wire.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  With a stretcher.
Interviewer:  And, talking about the posts, you'd talk about several, you'd have more than one, you'd have several?
863:  Posts, yeah.
Interviewer:  And, this picked fence, was that nailed together or woven together?
863:  No, it would have been nailed.
Interviewer:  And what would you call a fence or wall made out of loose stone or rock?
863:  Rock wall.
Interviewer:  And, when you have chickens, um, a place you could put the mother hen and the baby chicks? It's a little thing you could set them in?
863:  Oh, um, but I don't remember what it was called other than the cage. You used to have, um, they used to have little wire cages that they put one mother in sometimes but most of them were just run #1 wild in the #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  chicken yard.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a coop or a cook?
863:  Oh yes. But uh, not from my own personal knowledge really. I know what a chicken coop is but uh, coops were used for more than just putting the mother and the young one in. We used to call it, it a coop. When you had a whole lot of chickens that were there for sale and, you know, they used to sit in a coop on the side of the store alive and you picked out your chicken and took it home. And you either wrung its neck or you chopped its head off.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And I never could wring one's neck.
Interviewer:  What would you call a, a hen on a nest of eggs?
863:  Brooding hen. Brooding hen or broody hen #1 with a #
Interviewer:  #2 And, #
863:  Y, you know.
Interviewer:  say if, um, well if you had a good set of dishes, your dishes would be made out of?
863:  China.
Interviewer:  And an egg made out of that would be a?
863:  China egg.
Interviewer:  And, when you're
863:  Or a glass egg, you know, #1 I #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  think sometimes they called 'em glass but they were china.
Interviewer:  When you eat chicken, there's a bone like this
863:  Wishbone.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Wishbone, also called a pulley bone.
Interviewer:  Which would you probably call it?
863:  Well, I call it the wishbone. But I, we called it the pulley bone too because that's what you did, you know, children, there were four of us growing up, and we were always fighting for the wishbone, see who got to pull and get their wish.
Interviewer:  Which end would you wanna get?
863:  Oh the long end, you get your wish.
Interviewer:  And, something you could carry water in would be a?
863:  Pail, bucket.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between a bucket and a pail?
863:  None, as far as I can tell.
Interviewer:  Which term would you be more likely to use?
863:  I think I would use them interchangeably.
Interviewer:  And what you could carry
863:  You know Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But uh, I rather suspect that a pail, uh, the word would be used in connection with something that you, think of a milk pail.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  So if you fetch the pail to get some milk, you know, but ordinarily what I pick up with a handle on it is a bucket.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  'Course the bucket was what went down in the well.
Interviewer:  And something you'd carry food to the hogs in would be a?
863:  Probably the slop bucket. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, say if you cut some flowers and wanted to keep them in the house, you'd put them in a?
863:  Vase.
Interviewer:  And, if you were setting the table next to each plate you would give everybody a? The eating utensils would be a?
863:  Knife, and a fork, and a spoon. Or the silverware.
Interviewer:  Okay, and nowadays if you served steak and it wasn't very tender, you'd put out steak?
863:  Knives.
Interviewer:  And, if the dishes were dirty you'd say I have to?
863:  Wash the dishes.
Interviewer:  And after she washes the dishes?
863:  She dries them.
Interviewer:  Or to get the suds off she?
863:  Rinses 'em.
Interviewer:  And the cloth or rag you use when you're washing them?
863:  Dish wa- dish rag really. Sometimes dishcloth but mostly dishrag.
Interviewer:  What about when you're drying them?
863:  That's the dishcloth really.
Interviewer:  And to bathe your face with, you have a?
863:  Washrag.
Interviewer:  And to dry yourself?
863:  Towel.
Interviewer:  And, you mentioned, um, syrup the people used to make. Any other name for syrup or something similar?
863:  We just called it syrup, a lot of people called it molasses but to me molasses is a particular kind of syrup. Just the #1 same #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  way that you can have corn syrup, and you can have cane syrup, and you can have maple syrup. But syrup was the term
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  for all that good sticky stuff except for honey which was different.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear, um, syrup and molasses called long-sweetening and short-sweetening?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, something that you, if you want {B} molasses, what would it come in?
863:  Nowadays, of course, it comes in a jar mostly #1 but #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  uh, we used to get ours up from the farm in a pail.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, a great big, round tin can so big, with a handle and we called it a #1 pail. #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  That was a syrup pail.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression, a stand of molasses, or a stand of lard?
863:  No, don't believe I have.
Interviewer:  And, if you wanted to pour something from a big container into something with a narrow mouth, you'd pour it through a?
863:  Funnel.
Interviewer:  And if you were driving horses and wanted them to go faster, you'd hit 'em with a?
863:  Probably a whip.
Interviewer:  And, nowadays to carry clothes out to hang them on the line, you'd carry them out in a?
863:  Clothes basket.
Interviewer:  And, if the lamp wasn't burning, nowadays you'd screw in a new?
863:  Bulb.
Interviewer:  What kind of bulb?
863:  Light bulb.
Interviewer:  And, say if you were, um, a long time ago people would carry corn to the mill to be ground, what would they call the amount that they would take at one time?
863:  I really don't know.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression, a turn of corn?
863:  No, I don't believe I have.
Interviewer:  And, if you went out and got as much wood as you could carry, you'd
863:  Armload.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And on a wagon that didn't have a full load of wood, you'd say he had a?
863:  Half load. #1 I guess, #
Interviewer:  #2 Do you ever hear #
863:  I don't know.
Interviewer:  What about jag of wood? Do you ever hear that?
863:  No, I've never heard that term.
Interviewer:  And if someone had a load of wood on his wagon and he was driving along, you'd say he was? What wood, he was?
863:  Delivering?
Interviewer:  Okay, do you ever hear, um, hauling wood or drawing #1 wood? #
863:  #2 Oh yes. # He hauls wood, he hauls water, you know, whenever you used to, to carry a load and
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  they used to say you hauled this, hauled that.
Interviewer:  Would you say that now, or does it ?
863:  Well, it's so seldom done
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But yes, people used to haul a load of this or haul a load of that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say if there was a log across the road, you'd say I tied a chain around it and we? What it our of the road?
863:  Pull or haul, I guess.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Either one, or drag.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Drag, really. That's what you would have to do to a log, you'd drag it.
Interviewer:  Okay, so you'd say we tied a chain around it and we?
863:  We, we dragged it out of the
Interviewer:  And you'd say we have, what many logs out of the road? We have?
863:  I guess dragged. But, around here the average person who is doing it would say drug.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  I wouldn't say it but I would realize that they would.
Interviewer:  And, something that, um, flour used to come in, say if you bought one hundred pounds or so?
863:  It used to be in a sack.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. What if it was bigger? Something
863:  Well, you could get it in a barrel #1 but I, #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  it's been a long time since I've seen anyone get flour in a barrel.
Interviewer:  The things that run around the barrel that hold the wood in place?
863:  Staves or the, are you talking about the hoops?
Interviewer:  Okay, and something smaller than a barrel that nails used to come in?
863:  Keg.
Interviewer:  And, on a water barrel or a beer keg or something, the thing that you turn?
863:  Spigot.
Interviewer:  What about out in your yard? What you turn?
863:  Faucet.
Interviewer:  And at the sink?
863:  Faucet.
Interviewer:  And, if you open a bottle and wanted to close it back up, you could stick in a?
863:  You mean a, besides a top? A cork?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Mm-kay.
Interviewer:  What, would you still call it a cork, if it was made out of glass or plastic or something?
863:  No, stopper.
Interviewer:  And, this is a musical instrument that people would?
863:  Harmonica.
Interviewer:  Any other names for that?
863:  Oh, I've heard it called a Jew's harp and a few other things. #1 But uh, #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  uh, oh yes some real good ones like uh, uh, Juice, no, yeah, juice harp and uh, something else, um,
Interviewer:  A juice harp and harmonica were the same?
863:  For some people.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then uh, some people considered the Jew's harp to be where you had the string that you p- or that you pulled very tight, you know, and just played #1 all by your #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  self, I mean
Interviewer:  Which, would you make that distinction or?
863:  Well, I never really called it either one, I've just heard it called that, I never would of called it any of 'em, I just would know what someone #1 was #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  talking about generally when they called it that. It's always been a harmonica to me.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Say if you had a wagon and two horses, the long wooden piece between the horses?
863:  Oh, shaft.
Interviewer:  Okay, what about, do you ever hear of a tongue or pole or
863:  Yes, I've heard of a tongue and it probably really oughta be called a tongue, I'm speaking from ignorance because I, I've heard all these terms but I #1 don't use #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  them ordinarily so I don't always summon them up very well.
Interviewer:  And with a buggy, you'd have
863:  Traces and uh, {NW} buggy used to have two pieces that came down on each side, and it really wasn't called a tongue.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 I think # they were between the shafts is what you'd call those.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, on a wheel, the thing, on the wheels, the thing that runs across to connect two wheels?
863:  The axle.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Axle.
Interviewer:  And, on a wagon wheel, the inside would be the hub, then the spokes come out and they fit into the?
863:  The rim?
Interviewer:  What's the rim made out of?
863:  Well, they used to be made out of wood and then covered with an iron rim on the outside of that,
Interviewer:  Mm.
863:  see?
Interviewer:  And, if you have a horse hitched to a wagon, there's a bar of wood that the trace is fastened onto? Would be the? Or?
863:  I'm not sure {NW} I, I'll look it up in the wish book. No, I'm really not sure.
Interviewer:  It's um,
863:  Oh, you're talking about the, um,
Interviewer:  No, no
863:  The yoke. That goes over, that looks like a yoke.
Interviewer:  The traces hook onto this, sometimes they'd use it if they'd butcher hogs, they'd use this to hang the hogs up.
863:  I've forgotten the name.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of singletree or
863:  Yes, I've heard of a singletree.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about when you have two horses? Each one would have a singletree and then you'd have?
863:  I don't know, a doubletree, I, I really don't know.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I've heard these terms and when you call them out I will recognize #1 that I've #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  heard them and not even yet be able to tell you exactly what part #1 of the #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  buggy. I've never had to hitch up a buggy.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, if you wanted to chop a log up, X shaped frame like this, you could set the long in?
863:  Cradle.
Interviewer:  What w- what did that look like exactly? Did
863:  Well, they used to have, there were two X's and they usually had one long piece that went together, hold 'em up. Hold them together, you know, themselves and then you could put the log across them inside to #1 chop it. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  Really, I think they would be more often used for sawing than for chopping, with #1 chopping #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  could be on the ground.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about when, if, something that carpenters use if you wanted to just saw a board? An A shaped frame? You know? Something more like that?
863:  Oh, you mean like horse, saw horses?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Mm-kay.
Interviewer:  And, you'd straighten your hair using a comb and a?
863:  Brush.
Interviewer:  And if you were gonna use that, you'd say you were going to?
863:  Brush your hair.
Interviewer:  And something you put in a pistol?
863:  You mean a bullet?
Interviewer:  Or another?
863:  Or a she- well a shell in a shotgun but a bullet in a pistol.
Interviewer:  What about in an ink pen? You know, you have a little cylinder of ink? You'd call that a?
863:  Refill.
Interviewer:  #1 Or a? #
863:  #2 {NW} # {NW} I really don't know, it, it would be just a cylinder of ink but I don't know that I'd call it that, its just a, uh, they call the, um, pens, the um, cartridge pens. #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-kay. # And
863:  I don't, when I put something, I know its a cartridge but, uh, and if your asking for a certain kind of a cartridge, you know, like the size or what was in it, I might speak of it that way but most of the time I would probably say bullet
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  or shell.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Depending on which kind of gun I was loading. A twenty-two I'd put a bullet into.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Maybe a cartridge. {NW} But uh, and then a shotgun I'd put a shell in- #1 -to, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you see.
Interviewer:  #1 And #
863:  #2 That's # common usage.
Interviewer:  Something that you'd sharpen a straight razor on would be a called a mother?
863:  Strap.
Interviewer:  And a small knife would be sharpened on a?
863:  Probably on a, on a, uh, little um, stone, you know, a whetstone.
Interviewer:  What about a bigger tool like an axe? The thing that would turn around you know?
863:  Um, alright I know perfectly well what it is cause we've had one. The grinders. The scissor grinders use 'em and I can't think. You want to tell me the word?
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called the grind rock or grindstone?
863:  Grindstone.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Grindstone.
Interviewer:  And something that children play on, you could take a board and fix over a tr-
863:  Seesaw.
Interviewer:  And if you saw some children playing on that, you'd say they were?
863:  Playing on the seesaw or seesawing.
Interviewer:  And do you ever hear taking a board and fixing it down at both ends, and children would jump up and down in the middle? Kind of like a trampoline?
863:  Yes, but I don't know that I've ever heard of a particular name for it unless it'd be a springboard but springboard mostly is only at one end. #1 And you #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm #
863:  can, its like a diving board.
Interviewer:  What about joggling board? Do you ever #1 hear that? #
863:  #2 I've never # heard it.
Interviewer:  And, you could take a board and anchor it down in the middle and then spin around and around? You'd call that a?
863:  Merry-go-round, perhaps?
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-kay. #
863:  #2 I # really don't know.
Interviewer:  #1 Any special names for? #
863:  #2 I don't know that # I would ever know what I'd call a one board like that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It'd be very like a merry-go-round.
Interviewer:  And, you could tie a long rope to a tree limb and put a seat on it and make a?
863:  Swing.
Interviewer:  And something you could carry coal in?
863:  Shuttle.
Interviewer:  Okay. What did that look like?
863:  Well, it was a, usually the ones I think of is a coal bucket or a shuttle where, um, where metal and, and had sort of a spout
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  effect on one side.
Interviewer:  And
863:  And they had a handle and you could dump the coal out.
Interviewer:  The, on an old-fashioned stove, the thing that runs from the stove to the chimney?
863:  That would be the flue.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Or the stovepipe.
Interviewer:  Is there a difference?
863:  The flue, I think, was actually the, the chimney that went out, or the part that went out through the wall and outside but, uh, the stovepipe was, I really think the, your difference was very slight or, or a matter of, of evolution. {NW}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, if you wanted to move bricks or something heavy, you could move it in a?
863:  Wheelbarrow?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, the thing people drive nowadays, you'd call a?
863:  You mean a car?
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Automobile.
Interviewer:  And, if something was squeaking, to lubricate it you'd say you had to?
863:  Well, I think that that would be to oil or grease depending on what it was.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and you'd say yesterday he, what, his car?
863:  Had his car greased.
Interviewer:  Or yesterday he?
863:  Greased the car but
Interviewer:  And if grease got all over your hands?
863:  You would be greasy.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, something, uh, inside the tire of the car, you have the inner?
863:  Inner tube.
Interviewer:  And, what did people used to burn in lamps?
863:  Oil, kerosene.
Interviewer:  And, do you ever, um, see anyone make a lamp, using a rag and a bottle and some kerosene?
863:  No. I don't think I've ever seen anyone make a lamp but I presume it could be done.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of one called a flambeau?
863:  No, a flambeau is a torch as #1 far as I'm #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  concerned. One that would be made, in, uh, New Orleans during, uh, Mardi Gras, they always use a flambeau but this is a torch on a long stick and its made with rags and kerosene and it #1 burns #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  while they run down but, uh, wasn't a bottle. {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Do you ever hear, um, anything called a flambeau, around Beaumont? Did
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And
863:  I'm too late in time.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  You'll have to get one of the older people to tell you that.
Interviewer:  Say if you had just built a boat, and you were going to put it in the water, you'd say you were going to?
863:  Launch it, probably.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of boats did people used to have? Say to go fishing or?
863:  Well, beside a rowboat
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  or a canoe or a skiff, uh, in this part of the country you might have had a pirogue.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Which, of course, is, is strictly a cajun term, it really isn't our term, I, I've always heard, heard it though because I lived in this part of the country. But most of the time I'd say rowboat or skiff or, uh, I have heard motorboat.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 You know # when you put a motorboat on it then you'd always call it the outdoor motorboat or, what have you. Then of course, there are the larger boats. #1 Wanna #
Interviewer:  #2 Would a #
863:  go into larger boats?
Interviewer:  How would a pirogue be different from a canoe?
863:  Originally, I think a pirogue is supposed to be a hollowed-out log.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But, any fishing boat that I would call a skiff or a rowboat they would probably call a pirogue now.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 A # pirogue, actually, is supposed to be sort of a long and, and, uh, narrow
Interviewer:  What would #1 be the difference? #
863:  #2 rounded-bottom boat. #
Interviewer:  Uh, long and narrow what?
863:  Sorta rounded-bottom boat but
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  they call, it, the terminology has evolved along
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  with what they are able to afford nowadays. I think they call any boat a pirogue or a bateau sometime.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between a skiff and a rowboat?
863:  As far as I'm concerned, probably, not any.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And #1 say #
863:  #2 I # would use them interchangeably, there's #1 probably a #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  difference but I would use them interchangeably.
Interviewer:  If a child is just learning to dress himself, the mother brings him the clothes and tells him, here?
863:  Get dressed.
Interviewer:  Or here, what?
863:  Dress yourself.
Interviewer:  Your clothes, here?
863:  Put on your clothes.
Interviewer:  Would you say here is your clothes or here are your #1 clothes? #
863:  #2 Here are # your clothes.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  I would say are.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  But then, I've been through schools and was raised that way anyway.
Interviewer:  And, say if a child was going to a dentist and he was scared, the dentist would say, well you don't need to be scared I
863:  I won't hurt you?
Interviewer:  Do you ever use the word ain't?
863:  Oh yes. All the time, knowing each time I used it, it was incorrect.
Interviewer:  How, give me some examples of how you'd use it.
863:  Oh, in joking or playing, you know. That ain't so.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I mean, you know, its casual and joking and funny.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And I, and I realized of course that at least fifty percent of my other local citizens, we use it without realizing necessarily that it was incorrect.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  It's quite widely used down here.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  So much so as I think that it is now being accepted in some of the slang dictionaries as imperfectly proper.
Interviewer:  Say if, um, I ask you, was that you I saw in town yesterday, you might say no it?
863:  No, it wasn't. {NW}
Interviewer:  No, it wasn't.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  What?
863:  Was not I but I'd probably say no it wasn't me. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, if #1 a woman #
863:  #2 You know, # knowing that it's #1 wrong again #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  but, not worrying #1 about it. #
Interviewer:  #2 Yeah, well, # I'm just interested, you know, in what, what you would probably say, you know?
863:  I'd probably say no it wasn't me. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, if a woman wanted to buy a dress of a certain color she'd take along a little square of cloth to use as a?
863:  Sample.
Interviewer:  And if she sees a dress she likes a lot, she'd say the dress was very?
863:  If I saw a dress I'd like I'd say, oh I like that dress.
Interviewer:  Or
863:  Or it, I could say it was attractive or it was, uh, something I wanted, I don't know.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I don't know what you're looking for really.
Interviewer:  And, something a woman could wear over her dress in the kitchen?
863:  An apron. Or a smock? My mother-in-law always wore a smock. And it wasn't an apron, it really was a smock.
Interviewer:  Like an artist's smock?
863:  Mm-hmm. She made them herself by the dozens and she always had one on all the time. Because it had long sleeves and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  As she got older, she was always cold.
Interviewer:  To s-
863:  But I would use an apron.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. To sign you name in ink you'd use a?
863:  Pen.
Interviewer:  And to hold a baby's diaper in place?
863:  Use a pin. But there's a, there is a difference in pronunciation but no one down here would ever make it. It would be a pen and a pin but down here it'd be just a pin.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Soup that you buy comes in a can made out of?
863:  Tin.
Interviewer:  And a dime is worth?
863:  Ten cents. See you say almost the same thing. There should be a difference in the, in the "E" but, but down here you won't ever get it. Everybody will pronounce the "e" and the "i" exactly alike.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, they just call 'em
863:  And I know it's different but I don't bother.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh, and what would a man wear to church on Sunday.
863:  A suit.
Interviewer:  If he just bought it, it'd be a brand?
863:  New suit.
Interviewer:  What were the pieces of a three piece suit?
863:  The shirt, I mean, the coat and the, or jacket. But really, coat was always what we called it, and the vest and the pants.
Interviewer:  {NW} Any other names of
863:  Sometime trousers. #1 but uh, #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  pants mostly down here.
Interviewer:  What about something a farmer would wear? It'd come up?
863:  Overalls.
Interviewer:  #1 And #
863:  #2 Or # coveralls but overalls, mostly down here.
Interviewer:  And, if you went outside without your coat, and you were cold and you wanted it, you'd tell someone, would you run inside and what me my coat?
863:  Bring me my coat or hand me my coat. Mostly bring me my coat.
Interviewer:  So you'd say so he went inside and he?
863:  Brought me my coat.
Interviewer:  And he'd say here I have?
863:  Brought you your coat. I wouldn't have said brung. {NW} Though, I would have heard it. {NW}
Interviewer:  You'd say, um, that coat won't fit this year but last year it?
863:  It did fit, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Last year it what?
863:  Or it fitted me.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, if you stuff a lot of things in your pockets it makes them?
863:  Bulge.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say that shirt used to fit me but then I washed it and it?
863:  Shrunk.
Interviewer:  And every shirt I've washed has?
863:  Shrunk.
Interviewer:  And I hope this year it doesn't?
863:  Shrink.
Interviewer:  And, if a woman likes to put on good clothes you'd say she likes to?
863:  Dress up.
Interviewer:  Would you say that about a man?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  What about if she likes to stand in front of the mirror and?
863:  Primp.
Interviewer:  Would you say that about a man?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  What would you say about a
863:  I'd say he was egotistical.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Any other?
863:  Vain, perhaps, you know. No, a man doesn't primp. I think that's strictly a ladies' word.
Interviewer:  {NW} What would you call a, a, a man who's vain? Do you ever hear of any special?
863:  Oh yes. They, they'd, um, call him a Beau Brummell perhaps, although that's quite an old term now. Uh,
Interviewer:  Where did that, I've heard that, that sounds vaguely familiar but?
863:  Oh, Beau Brummell was a great, uh, fop, I guess you would call it, and uh, his uh, in the time of one of the King Charles' #1 I think #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  and uh, he was a court favorite and he also was a very, um, meticulous about his clothes and liked to start new fashions #1 and, and #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  particularly, the ruffles and all this sort of thing so that someone who is what, around here would be called a natty dresser
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  would also be called a Beau Brummell.
Interviewer:  What about the term jellybean? Do you ever hear that?
863:  Only in relation to candy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Well, yes, and a jellybean and a cream puff and some of those would be the same thing but those would be someone who, uh, was soft in the center, you know, didn't have a lot of character or a lot of backbone. That would be what a jellybean would be to me. Just
Interviewer:  And it'd be derogatory?
863:  Yes, it would.
Interviewer:  Something that, um, people used to carry there coins in would be a?
863:  Used to carry them in?
Interviewer:  Yeah, little coin
863:  A coin purse.
Interviewer:  And, something a women could wear around her neck with things strung up together?
863:  Beads.
Interviewer:  You'd call that a?
863:  Or a necklace.
Interviewer:  Or a what of beads?
863:  String of beads.
Interviewer:  And something you'd wear around around your wrist?
863:  Bracelet.
Interviewer:  And, something men used to wear to hold their pants up?
863:  Suspenders.
Interviewer:  Any old-fashioned names? For that?
863:  Oh, I know I've heard some, but uh, I never used 'em but I, I guess because I know so few people that wear suspenders. I think the only time my husband ever wears them is with his evening clothes, you know they have some that come with the, #1 the uh, #
Interviewer:  #2 They still #
863:  tux pants. Yes, they still wear suspenders with tux pants. That's the only time he wears them.
Interviewer:  {NW} Um, what you hold over you when it rains?
863:  Umbrella.
Interviewer:  And, the last thing you put on a bed, the
863:  Bedspread.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Any, um, things that people used to make to, similar to a bedspread?
863:  Like a coverlet?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What was a coverlet exactly?
863:  A coverlet was generally woven.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And of course if it was quilted then it was called a quilt but it might also be called a coverlet if it were used on top, you know, in other words, if the, instead of just as, as something like a blanket to keep you warmer.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But uh, a spread, might be woven but uh, I really think maybe it's perhaps a more modern term but I always call everything a bedspread. Now,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  when I go over to the French Trading Post or a nice eighteen forty-five museum, I talk about the coverlet.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Because it's an old-fashioned word and it goes with those nice old double woven coverlets that they have there.
Interviewer:  At the head of the bed, you put your head on a?
863:  Pillow.
Interviewer:  Do you remember anything about twice as long as a pillow?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a bolster?
863:  Oh yes. And bolsters might even be one very long one or they might be rolled up. #1 Mostly, #
Interviewer:  #2 {NS} #
863:  I think of 'em in terms of rolled up, you know, very tight, long, round thing and the bolster is behind.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Or might be put on instead of pillows #1 and #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  some are made so that they're an open case that you can stuff the pillows in and they make one long, round bolster.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. You say, the bolster didn't go part way across the bed, it went?
863:  No it went all the way across.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear people say clean across or plumb across, or?
863:  Oh yes. That's a good, go clean across town or go,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  alright, he threw it plumb across the river or street or something but I don't believe I'd have used it but yes I've heard it #1 many times. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. # #1 And #
863:  #2 It's really in # common usage.
Interviewer:  Say if you had a lot of company and didn't have enough beds for everyone, for the children to sleep on, you could make a?
863:  In the old days, they would have made pallets. Nowadays we get, you know, a roll-away, something,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  or we borrow one. {NW} But they would have made pallets on the floor and a pallet, uh, sometimes, they had a roll-away bed in the old days, you know, that came out from under the bed but the pallet would be, generally, made up of something like quilts.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, you'd say, we expect a big crop in that field because the soil is very?
863:  Rich?
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Or fertile.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of land are there around here?
863:  Well, you have the swamp land that, uh, lot of which has been drained and turned into production of rice.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then you have, uh, you know we have a lot of different kinds of soils in this part of the country and just north of here, you're going to get into a hilly and sandier country.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then south of here, you're going to get into real swamps. And uh, then you're going to have your forest land, and then you have what's good pasture land. In fact, even the Spaniards, when they gave the grants, would say it had so many, uh, they really didn't call it acres, but uh, varas, and what have you. of uh, of uh, woodland, and so many of arable ground and so many of swamp ground and so, we have what we call prairies here and that's largely your cattle area. Some of which has now been turned into rice farming and then, then you'll have, really, farmland.
Interviewer:  What would you
863:  Black land.
Interviewer:  What would you call land that's um, used just for raising hay?
863:  Just for raising hay? Probably just pasture land.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Do you ever hear that called a meadow?
863:  Oh yes. Oh yes.
Interviewer:  What would be the difference between a meadow and a prairie?
863:  Well, a prairie is a little bit different from the meadow I think. Uh, I think of a meadow as being something that has been put under production by the efforts of man. The prairie just grows there and always has. The prairie is more natural grasses and perhaps, no, no work has been done #1 on #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  most of the prairie.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, the land next to a river or stream? Kind of low? {X}
863:  Bottom land.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and, a sort of a swampy area next to the sea with saltwater?
863:  We call this a sea rim marsh down here.
Interviewer:  You call it a what?
863:  Sea rim marsh.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  We call it the marsh.
Interviewer:  And, if you were draining a swamp, what would you call the things that you dig to drain the water off?
863:  Ditches? Canals?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Whats the diff-?
863:  Depending on the size? {NW}
Interviewer:  Which is bigger?
863:  The canal would be larger and probably, uh, done by machinery.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, Nowadays. They would've been done done but a ditch could be very small. You could have a pretty good sized ditch
863:  #1 too. #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # What if you, had a heavy rain and the water came out a little?
863:  You mean erosion? Like a gully?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. How big would a gully be?
863:  Well you can have some pretty good size gullies.
Interviewer:  What if, what would you call it if it's real big and got maybe a little stream at the bottom?
863:  Something that's been made for a long, long time? You mean like out in West Texas? You won't get those down here. You won't get any canyons, we're too flat but you'll have a canyon out there. Spanish word for it, arroyo.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, what different, um, names of different kinds of soil, would you get around here?
863:  Well, we get, uh, we have clay, we have sand, we have what's called black gumbo out here.
Interviewer:  What's that like?
863:  Uh, it's just a heavy black soil that, uh, when it's dry it gets very, very hard and cracks open and when it's wet swells up a lot.
Interviewer:  Is it good for, is it fertile or?
863:  {NW} It's good for things that like heavy black gumbo.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  It's not good for things like root crops.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Uh, it's, no I don't think it's terribly fertile.
Interviewer:  Is it good for cotton? or?
863:  No, I think the cotton's a little bit better a little bit further, farther north where there's more sand.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Do you ever hear of a kind of a soil called loam or loom?
863:  Well, loam yes, is any good soil. Loam is, uh, is really what I would call the same thing as topsoil.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, a small rise in land would be a?
863:  Hill.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Any other names?
863:  Not around here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. To open the door, you'd take hold of the door?
863:  Knob.
Interviewer:  Do you ever use the word knob in reference to land?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, something with a whole
863:  We really don't have, I'll tell you the reason for that is I, I know that there are knobs, and what have you, elsewhere but you realize how flat this is. And I'm talking to you, really, about my local experience I, I, for instance when I say arroyo, I'm really talking more in terms of West Texas and #1 canyons #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  because we don't have any canyons here. {NW} This is too flat.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Something, a whole lot bigger than a hill, which
863:  You mean, as a mountain?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, the rocky side of the mountain that drops off real sharp?
863:  Probably the cliff.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Talking about several of those, your talking about several?
863:  Well, of course, there are a lot of other terms but
Interviewer:  Or the #1 plural #
863:  #2 again # these are not anything that we use, uh, locally so much, you just know them because you read them.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But you might have an escarpment or something like that.
Interviewer:  Or just the plural of that.
863:  Cliffs.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, up in the mountains, um, where the road goes across in a low place, not the valley, and you still
863:  Call a pass.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, gunfighters on television, for every man that they've killed, they'd cut a little?
863:  Notch.
Interviewer:  And, if you had some water flowing along you'd call that a little?
863:  Well, here you might call it, uh, a creek, you might call it a bayou.
Interviewer:  {NW} What's the difference?
863:  Bayou is a term that comes from Louisiana but, for instance, we have a fairly nice sized river
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  down here which we call Taylor's Bayou.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, this little trickle of water that goes back behind my house is called Hillebrandt's Bayou. Anywhere else in the country it'd be called a creek.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about, um, say if you had some water that's flowing along and it dropped off?
863:  Waterfall.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Waterfall.
Interviewer:  And a place where boats stop and freight's unloaded?
863:  Uh, you mean, like a port or a wharf, or something like this?
Interviewer:  What's the difference?
863:  Well a port is, is, a city perhaps, or a town or a, or a stop along the way. Uh, riverboat landing or something, depending on the size of it, and, of course, a wharf would be the actual wooden structure or, perhaps nowadays, a cement structure.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What are some names
863:  Wharf or a dock, you see, would be about the same thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Wharf, probably, uh, having a building attached to it, maybe.
Interviewer:  #1 What are the #
863:  #2 Not necessarily. #
Interviewer:  names of some of the, um, creeks and rivers and things, or bayous around here?
863:  Well, the Neches River is the large river that flows through Beaumont, it
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  uh, goes into Sabine Lake and the Sabine River also comes down there. You have Village Creek, which is north of here, uh, you have, uh, Pine Allen Bayou, which is the same thing as Village Creek and only a little bit south. I mean it's not the same body of water, you understand, but there's no difference as far as looking at 'em between one and the other but one is called Pine Allen Bayou and the other one is called Village Creek. Then we have Taylor's Bayou and Hillebrandt's Bayou and those are your main bayous that come into this part of the country.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Course, if you want to go in a little farther, you have the Trinity River over at Liberty.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. {NW} And, what different kinds of roads are there around here?
863:  Nowadays?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Beside interstate highways and, and US highways and state highways and county roads, farm-to-market roads, streets.
Interviewer:  What would they be made out of? What?
863:  They're nearly all, no, they're not nearly all either. Some of 'em of course are cement or #1 concrete #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  and others are just asphalt or various kinds of mixes that they use now. Some are shale.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Still, not very many.
Interviewer:  What do you call the, um, the rocks they put on roads?
863:  Gravel.
Interviewer:  And, if you don't even have gravel on the road it'd be just a?
863:  Probably shale.
Interviewer:  Or if you didn't have anything on it?
863:  Be dirt road.
Interviewer:  And a little road that goes off the main road would be a?
863:  It'd still be a road here. We don't really call them lanes or anything like that. It's just a road. Everything's a road.
Interviewer:  What do you think of a lane as?
863:  A country lane, I think, is just a country road. But it's just not a term we use in this part of the country much.
Interviewer:  When you think of a lane, do, you think of something that's got trees or a fence on both sides or it could just be out in the open?
863:  Probably. Probably has trees and fence.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And a road that goes up to a person's house would be a?
863:  Still be the road. Could be a driveway but out in the country, you don't call it a driveway you just call it the road.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, something along the side of the street for people to walk on.
863:  Sidewalk.
Interviewer:  And, there's a strip of grass between the sidewalk and the street.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear a name for that?
863:  Mm-mm. No, just grass.
Interviewer:  And say if you were walking along the road and an animal jumped out and scared you, you'd say I picked up a? Something hard, I picked up a?
863:  Rock and threw it at him.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Anything else you'd say besides threw it at him?
863:  Uh, I'd probably say I ran.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, if you went to someone's house and knocked on the door and nobody answered, you'd say?
863:  Nobody's home.
Interviewer:  And, if someone's walking in your direction, you'd say he's coming straight?
863:  Toward me.
Interviewer:  And if you went into town and happened to see someone you hadn't counted on seeing, you'd say you happen to run?
863:  Into so and so. Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, if a child is given the same name that her aunt has, you'd say they named the child?
863:  After her aunt.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  Possibly for her but after #1 is, #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  is more commonly used.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I think that's what I would say first. We named her after Aunt Amy or something like this.
Interviewer:  And, something that people drink for breakfast?
863:  Coffee?
Interviewer:  And if you wanted some coffee and there wasn't any ready, you'd say, well I guess I have to go?
863:  Make a cup of coffee.
Interviewer:  And tell me about putting milk in your coffee. You'd say some people like it?
863:  With sugar and cream or with milk. Some like it without. They, I've heard it now called, light coffee, white coffee, all kinds of things but I've never used that. This is something that if you're gonna offer it, if you're gonna get it out of one of those little machines, those vending machines now, you want coffee light, if you want it with #1 milk #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  but this is not a term I ever heard before I ran into the vending machine.
Interviewer:  What would you call it if you didn't put milk or
863:  Black.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  No, just black.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression, drinking coffee barefooted?
863:  No. I haven't.
Interviewer:  And, talking about distance, you'd say well I don't know exactly how far it is but it's just a?
863:  It's just a little ways.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Mm-kay.
Interviewer:  And if you had been traveling and still had about five hundred miles to go, you'd say you still have a?
863:  A long way to go.
Interviewer:  And if something was very common and you didn't have to look for it in a special place, you'd say you would find that just about?
863:  Anywhere.
Interviewer:  And if someone slipped and fell this way?
863:  Backwards.
Interviewer:  And this way?
863:  Forwards.
Interviewer:  And, say if you've been fishing and I asked you, did you catch any, you might say no?
863:  Didn't catch a thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Or no what a one?
863:  Or a single one.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say nary a one?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear that, or?
863:  Oh yes. But I, I almost consider it, uh, {NW} an affectation in this part. I, I, I would say it is a joke or something like that, nary a one, but this, again would be, um, not anything that I would say ordinarily.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I really don't think most people down here would say nary. Though, they would've heard it. I, I suspect that that's more a colloquialism, perhaps in your old Elizabethan parts of the country.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You been through Tennessee?
Interviewer:  Not, too much in the mountains, mm-mm.
863:  That's where you get some of your speech that's not very far from Elizabethan.
Interviewer:  And, say if you were plowing, um, the trenches that are cut by the plow?
863:  Furrows.
Interviewer:  And, do you ever, if you're plowing with two horses, do you ever hear a special name for the one that walks in the furrow?
863:  No, I've never plowed.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, when you're driving horses, you guide 'em with the?
863:  With reins.
Interviewer:  And when you're riding on it?
863:  Still reins.
Interviewer:  And your feet are in the?
863:  Stirrups. Oh.
Interviewer:  And, {NW} say if, um, before you can hitch a horse to a buggy or wagon, you have to?
863:  You have to catch him. {NW}
Interviewer:  Then you have to?
863:  Then you have to, uh, bridle him, or you have to, um, oh what would I want to say. Anyway, you'd have to hitch him up.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  That what you were after?
Interviewer:  The, the gear that you put on him, you call that the? If you are gonna hitch him to a wagon or something, you put the?
863:  In harness. {NW} #1 You'd have #
Interviewer:  #2 And, #
863:  to harness him, yeah.
Interviewer:  If you got rid of all the brush and trees on your land, you'd say you?
863:  Cleared it.
Interviewer:  And, wheat is tied up into a?
863:  Oh, we don't grow wheat down here but it's in sheaves, I think.
Interviewer:  And then they're piled up into a?
863:  Wind rows maybe before, actually, they're not done that way anymore, you know, they're harvested with a combine. {NW} So if you are doing something that's out of my area and before my time.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about fodder? That'd be tied into a?
863:  Well, fodder is some of what's left over that you use for the cattle to eat #1 and the #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  horses. And that would be, uh, fodder can be made up of different things, it could be part of the refuse or what's left over from the sugar cane or it can be part of what's left over straw or, or rice or any #1 of this #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  sort of thing. Any thing they'll eat.
Interviewer:  How would they, they'd tie it up into a?
863:  Well you bale hay, but I'm not sure, you know, solid silage, I guess would be considered fodder too and #1 that's #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  not baled or tied up in any way. It's put in a silo.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Talking about how much wheat would be raised to an acre. You might say we raised forty?
863:  We don't raise wheat #1 down #
Interviewer:  #2 Well, #
863:  here but uh, but I think they did in bushels.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, what do you have to do with the oats to separate the grain from the rest of it?
863:  You mean back, like in battle times? {NW} Thresh
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  the wheat from the
Interviewer:  Say if there was something that we had to do today?
863:  Winnowing {X} Winnowing is the part that you, but that's strictly coming out of the Bible, I don't do this, and nobody else does either because nowadays you harvest it with that combine. #1 {NW] #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # If there's something that we had to do today, just the two of us, you could say will have to do it or you could say?
863:  Mm-hmm. We'll have to do so and so, yeah.
Interviewer:  Or if you didn't use the word we, you could say you and?
863:  You and I will have to do it. I probably would not say you and me would have to do something. I would say, uh, I would use me incorrectly sometimes at the end of the sentence, you know like, uh, like I used it a little while ago but I would not use it as the
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  subject pronoun if, if you and me are going to town.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That way, I would say you and I are going to town but {NW} I know that a large number of people here #1 would #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh #
863:  say you and me are going to town or let's you and me do so and so.
Interviewer:  What if you were talking #1 about #
863:  #2 I # probably wouldn't do it.
Interviewer:  a man and your {NS} say husband and yourself are doing something, you'd say?
863:  Still say we.
Interviewer:  Or if you didn't say we?
863:  My husband and I, Will and I.
Interviewer:  Or if you don't call his name, would you say he and I or me and him or what?
863:  {NW} I would say he and I but I don't think I would actually say he and I are going to town. I'd say Will and I are going to town or we, or we're going to town or something like #1 that but #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  but I don't say he and I are going to town. I'd, that's awkward.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, he don't want just you or just me for this job he wants
863:  He wants us or both of us.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if you knock at the door and they recognize your voice they, they ask who's there and you know they'll recognize your voice, you'd say?
863:  I'd probably say it's just me.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  And
863:  Even though I know I should say it is I. {D: For you my mother)
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  and every English teacher I ever had.
Interviewer:  Say there's a man at the door and I ask you, is that John at the door? You would say, yeah that was?
863:  That was John or I would probably say that, I don't think I would say that was him. {NW} I think I'd probably just say, yeah that was John or
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. It'd be
863:  Or that's who it was or something. I really don't think I would say, it sounds awkward to me so I don't think I'd say it.
Interviewer:  What if it was a woman? You'd say that was?
863:  Yeah I might've said that was her.
Interviewer:  And then
863:  Well I guess I would have said that was him. Yeah that was him. I might've.
Interviewer:  If there was two people you'd say that was?
863:  Them.
Interviewer:  And, talking about how tall you are, you'd say he's not as tall as?
863:  As I am.
Interviewer:  Or I'm not as tall?
863:  As he is.
Interviewer:  And he can do that better?
863:  Than I can.
Interviewer:  And, if you've been out to
863:  But I might say better than me, if I'm just joking along and being very, very comfortable. I, I, what I'll say quickly without any thought and, and depending on, you know, sometimes I'd speak to the person that, uh, I'm speaking to in their own language, in effect. And, I find myself pronouncing things very well when I'm talking with theatrical people. You #1 see? #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  And when I'm just sitting around talking to somebody I can be a little bit like, #1 like this, #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  you know? I can get as unintelligible as anyone else.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Say if, um, you'd been to New Mexico and hadn't gone anymore west that that, you'd say New Mexico is?
863:  Far west as I've been, huh.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Or another way of saying that? New Mexico is? Would you say it's all the further west I've been or the farthest or?
863:  The farthest.
Interviewer:  And, if something belongs to me, you'd say it's?
863:  It's mine.
Interviewer:  Or? I'd ask you, I'd say this isn't mine, is this?
863:  I'd say no it's mine.
Interviewer:  Or I'd ask you, is this?
863:  Yours. Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And if it belongs to both of us, it's?
863:  Ours.
Interviewer:  And to them it's?
863:  Theirs.
Interviewer:  And to him?
863:  His.
Interviewer:  And to her?
863:  Hers.
Interviewer:  And, if there was a group of people at your house and they were getting ready to leave, you'd, you'd say well I hope?
863:  You'll come back. {NW}
Interviewer:  Would you say you to a whole group or?
863:  Oh I might say you all.
Interviewer:  How do you use you all?
863:  You all is the plural of you. Y'all come back.
Interviewer:  Do you ever use, um,
863:  #1 In fact, I used #
Interviewer:  #2 you all or? #
863:  to, um, I've just come back from Hawaii and I absolutely broke them up saying Aloha you all.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  But I did that for fun.
Interviewer:  Would you ever use you all or y'all for just one person?
863:  No. I wouldn't. And I really never heard it used that way. I've heard comedians make jokes about it but I've never heard anyone say it to one person, unless they were saying, I could say I wish you all would come see us again, meaning you and whoever else I associate with you. #1 If I knew #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  you, say, and your mother or your
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  friend or something like this but I would never refer to you as you all.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What if there was a group at your house and you were asking about their coats, you know, everybody's coats, you'd say where are?
863:  Are y'all's coats, yeah. {X}
Interviewer:  And,
863:  Easy. {NW}
Interviewer:  If there was a, had been a party that you hadn't been able to go to and you were asking about the people that had gone. You'd ask someone?
863:  Who all was there?
Interviewer:  And if there was a group of children that obviously belonged to more than one family, you'd ask about them?
863:  Whose family's or whose children are these. I'd just say #1 whose. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Would you ever say who all?
863:  I don't believe so. That's not one I use.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You all all the time but, uh, whose would just be whose
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  for me.
Interviewer:  And if you were asking about all of the speaker's remarks, you know, everything he said, you'd ask somebody?
863:  What did he say or what all did he say. I don't think I'd say what all.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I might though, I might. That sounds natural enough.
Interviewer:  And you say if no one else will look out for them, you say they've got to look out for?
863:  Themselves.
Interviewer:  And if no one else will do it for him, he better do it?
863:  For himself.
Interviewer:  And, something made out of flour and baked in a loaf?
863:  Bread.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of bread?
863:  Well in a loaf, it's mostly just bread but I mean you could get whole wheat bread or wheat germ bread or white bread.
Interviewer:  What do you put in white bread to make it rise?
863:  Yeast.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Have you ever heard of light bread?
863:  Yes. And I think it's almost the same thing as white bread.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Some people would just call it?
863:  Yes, I've heard it called that. I don't call it light bread. I always call it white bread.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And you'd say there's two kinds of bread, there's homemade bread and then there's?
863:  Store bought.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  Or bakery. But I think I'd call it store bought.
Interviewer:  Talking about how much flour might be in a sack, you'd say a sack might contain five or ten?
863:  Probably twenty-five pounds.
Interviewer:  And, something, um, made out of flour, it's fried in deep fat and has a whole in the center?
863:  Doughnut?
Interviewer:  Any other names for doughnuts?
863:  Dunkers. Oh I, clunkers, I don't know. Doughnuts is just what I call 'em.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And something that you'd make out of batter and fry to eat for breakfast?
863:  You mean like, pancakes?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And what
863:  Or hotcakes. Either one, interchangeably.
Interviewer:  What different things are made out of cornmeal?
863:  Cornbread. Down here, and I don't make it but, you know, we have the colored help. They make, uh, they make a sort of a cornbread thing which they call kush kush. And I'm sure you've run into kush kush before if you've been through Louisiana.
Interviewer:  What's that like exactly?
863:  But it would be the, it's, uh, well they just make the cornbread in a skillet.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And then they, they'll usually eat it with, say, syrup or milk, or something like that. And uh, then of course, we all made hush puppies.
Interviewer:  What about, um, this may be very similar to the kush kush but something that you could just take cornmeal and salt and water. It'd make something you'd eat with a spoon.
863:  Mm-hmm. You mean like a cornmeal mush?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. That was different from the kush kush?
863:  Yeah, kush kush, uh, is almost baked on top of the stove without being put in a, in a, well some people may have called that mush but I believe everybody call that mush.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That, that you made, you know, it's, it's almost a difference in consistency, the same ingredients.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, do you ever hear of anything called a corn dodger?
863:  Yes, and I think it'd probably be just a, same thing as a hush puppy. It'd be a fried, uh, corn and corn pone I've heard #1 too. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  and then, 'course, you can bake and make spoon bread.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. But something similar to a hush puppy, they'd call a?
863:  That's what I'd call a corn dodger.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, the inside part of the egg is called the?
863:  The yoke.
Interviewer:  What color is that?
863:  The yoke is the yellow, and the whites are the whites {NW} or
Interviewer:  #1 And, #
863:  #2 clear. #
Interviewer:  if you cooked them in hot water, you call them?
863:  Well, either hard boiled or poached.
Interviewer:  Poached. What?
863:  Poached egg.
Interviewer:  And, the kind of, um, animal that barks would be a?
863:  Dog.
Interviewer:  And if you wanted your dog to attack another dog you'd tell him?
863:  Sic him.
Interviewer:  And what would you call a mixed breed dog?
863:  Mongrel.
Interviewer:  What about a, a small noisy dog?
863:  You mean, beside a mongrel? Oh, there's another good term, let me think what it is. But uh, most small noisy dogs are just terriers or something to that effect.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a feist?
863:  No. I know what feisty is, it means one that's, you know, full of fight but I've never heard it called that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about a worthless dog?
863:  Just a mongrel I guess.
Interviewer:  And if you had a mean dog, you'd tell someone you better be careful that dog will?
863:  Will bite.
Interviewer:  And yesterday
863:  Or you call him a vicious dog, you know. He bit someone yesterday so be careful.
Interviewer:  And the person had to go to the doctor after he got?
863:  Bitten.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say dog bit? So and so was dog bit?
863:  No but I've said so and so was snake bit.
Interviewer:  What does snake bit mean?
863:  Beat and bitten by a snake.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But being snake bit, you know, means that they are, they're scared of something now, you know? I mean if I had been snake bit it means that now I'm scared of snakes or and #1 you use #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  that as a, it's a, it's a, the reason you pick it up is not because you don't know the grammar but because it's a particular term
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  that, uh, he's snake bit, that means he's been bitten before and he's scared.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Does it sort of mean accident prone?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  It just
863:  No, mostly just, uh, scared and cautious, you know,
Interviewer:  I could say someone's burned or something.
863:  Yeah that's right. The burned child.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Same thing.
Interviewer:  And, the kind of animal that people use to plow with?
863:  You mean, beside the horse and the mule? The ox?
Interviewer:  Talk about the mule.
863:  #1 Yes. #
Interviewer:  #2 If you had # two of those hitched together? You'd call that a?
863:  Oh, there's a term for a pair of mules but I've forgotten what it is. And we had mules but, you know, I'm not good on this farm terminology.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, the animals that you milk would be a?
863:  They'd be cows.
Interviewer:  And the male would be a?
863:  Bull.
Interviewer:  Was that word nice to use when you were growing up?
863:  Well I grew up in a, in a ranching family, and bulls were very valuable animals, they were not a bad word. Uh there is certain combinations of the word bull with other things that are quite bad. You know what they are.
Interviewer:  And, the little one when it's first born is called a?
863:  Calf.
Interviewer:  And the female?
863:  Are heifers.
Interviewer:  And the male?
863:  Well they're bull calves.
Interviewer:  And if you had a cow that was expecting a calf, you'd say she was going to?
863:  Calve.
Interviewer:  Any other ways of saying that?
863:  No, I don't think so.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear drop a calf or find a calf or come in?
863:  Well, not find, uh, come in I may have heard I'm, I'm really not sure but yes I've heard dropping calves.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Just the, but mostly though, the, it's. it seems to me that the horses drop a colt.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, the mare drops a colt, more than the, than the cow drops a calf. I guess cows drop calves.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And the male horse is called a?
863:  Stallion.
Interviewer:  That word was alright to use too?
863:  Oh yeah, there are some nice little ladies that don't think you ought to speak of things like {NS}
Interviewer:  Um, you'd say everyone around here likes to, what, horses?
863:  Ride.
Interviewer:  And yesterday he?
863:  Rode a horse.
Interviewer:  And I have never?
863:  Ridden a horse.
Interviewer:  And if you couldn't stay on, you'd say, you fell, what, the horse?
863:  I fell off the horse.
Interviewer:  And, say a child went to sleep in bed, and woke up and found himself on the floor in the morning?
863:  He fell off the bed.
Interviewer:  And, the things you put on the horse's feet, are called the?
863:  Horseshoe?
Interviewer:  What about a game you play with those?
863:  {NW} Horseshoes too.
Interviewer:  Do you ever see it played with rings instead of horseshoes?
863:  Well, it was a ring toss game but uh, but um it was different. It was, and it was much more modern with plastic and that sort of thing. Same thing, it's just the stake in the ground on two of 'em apart, #1 you know, and #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you throw the horseshoe.
Interviewer:  And the part of the horse's feet that you put the shoes on?
863:  Hoof.
Interviewer:  And, the plural?
863:  Hooves.
Interviewer:  And, the male sheep is called a?
863:  Ram.
Interviewer:  That word was alright to use to
863:  It is for me.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Uh, and a ewe, you know, but these are, you know, having been brought up in a cattle raising
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  family, uh, this, it never occurred to me whether it was good or bad.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see? Uh, if you got into a more genteel family that, uh, good Victorians that were more further removed from the actual raising and breeding of these animals, uh, you go back and see {C: tape skips} where some of the ladies might have but then they tittered about showing there ankles and that sort of
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 thing too. #
Interviewer:  Um, what people raised sheep for? Would be?
863:  Well in this part of the country it was to make everybody else mad. {NW} We didn't like sheep raisers but they raised 'em for wool.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, really, nobody every eats mutton around here maybe some spring lamb, you know, you can get a leg of lamb or lamb chops but mutton is not a term that anyone ever uses here. I had my first mutton when I went to England.
Interviewer:  The animals you get pork from would be?
863:  Hogs.
Interviewer:  When they're first born you call 'em?
863:  Pigs, I guess. Piglets.
Interviewer:  #1 And when they're bigger? #
863:  #2 Little shoats. # Uh, {NW} I think shoats, isn't that a #1 good term? Yeah. #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # What size is a shoat?
863:  Ah, it's a little bit than a little, than a newborn. I, I think it's when they're running around.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Up to, what size?
863:  I don't know, we never very raised many hogs.
Interviewer:  A male hog is called a?
863:  Boar.
Interviewer:  And if you had a pig and you didn't want it to grow up to be a male hog, what would you say you were gonna do to it?
863:  Well, I guess the term would be castrate but I really wouldn't know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Geld is what you do for a horse. I don't know what you do for a, a boar.
Interviewer:  And, if you'd castrated the boar, then it'd be called a?
863:  I don't even know.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the term barrow #1 or borrow? #
863:  #2 Yes. # I suppose that's what it is, I couldn't think of the word though.
Interviewer:  What'd you hear it called?
863:  Barrow.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And the female is called a?
863:  Sow.
Interviewer:  What if she's never had pigs?
863:  I really don't know.
Interviewer:  And, the stiff hairs that a hog has on its back?
863:  Bristle.
Interviewer:  And the big teeth?
863:  Tusks.
Interviewer:  And, what'd you put the food in for the hog? Would be called a?
863:  Hmm. I don't really know. I used to have uh, bins and, and troughs and things, I guess trough would be what it would be in. Actually, what they did was throw it over the fence {NW} and it went on the ground and into the wallow and what have you. {NW} But yes, I think it would be a pig trough, wouldn't it? If you were having 'em, keeping 'em?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  If you were raising them professionally, you know, other than just letting them run loose or keeping them in that pigsty.
Interviewer:  Any special name for a hog that's grown up wild?
863:  They used to call them Piney Woods Rooters around here. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, say if you had some horses and mules and cows and so forth, they were getting hungry, you'd say you had to feed the?
863:  The stock.
Interviewer:  What if you're talking about hens and turkeys and geese?
863:  Well, you can probably just say feed the chickens, all of 'em, but poultry.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And if it was time to feed the stock and do your work, you'd say it was?
863:  Chores.
Interviewer:  Or it's what time? Would you call it chore time or feeding time or water time?
863:  Well, of course, if the other chore was in feeding, you might say feeding time.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  Among chores used, on the old time farm and even next door to me, they kept a cow and, and one of the things that they used to always relegate to me was to, to churn the butter
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  because they had, they had to get the eggs, you know, and, and gather the eggs and that sort of thing from the chicken house and everybody hated to churn the butter, so it seemed to me that if I wanted them to come out and play sooner, I had to churn the butter.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And in those days it wasn't a, you know, that kind of churning, it was the kind that you turned the crank on.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And it took a long time. Your arm got tired.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And I soon found out that that wasn't the chore I wanted.
Interviewer:  {NW} Um,
863:  But I've seen milk, uh, with the old slapdash method at the
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 churn you know. # Slapdash, slapdash. Nice little rhythm to it.
Interviewer:  {NW} The noise that a calf makes when it's being weaned?
863:  Bawl.
Interviewer:  What about a cow?
863:  They moo.
Interviewer:  And a horse?
863:  Neighs.
Interviewer:  Or the gentle sound? That they make?
863:  Nicker.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Do y'all have many horses around here?
863:  Oh yes. And I grew up with horses, and so did my children. We still have some horses that are retired down there.
Interviewer:  What kind? Quarter-
863:  Quarter horses, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Good ol' ranch horse, huh?
863:  All working horses and her one quarter horse that she used to ride in shows was trained for barrel racing and
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  western pleasure class but, but uh, no walking horses or saddle horses, just uh, just the ol' quarter horses.
Interviewer:  Say if you wanted to get a cow in out of the pasture. How would you call her? Do you ever hear
863:  No, I'm sure they can and I've heard soo pig and all that sort of thing but uh, or here bossy or soo bossy and all that sort of stuff but, actually, most of those cows knew exactly when it was time to come in and eat and be milked and they came you #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 just didn't have, #
863:  all you had to do was open the gate.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear a special call for a calf?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  What about horses?
863:  No, I don't think I've heard a special call for 'em. I'm sure they had one but um, again, they always knew
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  when they were, when they were, course they always knew when you wanted to saddle 'em too and then they disappeared.
Interviewer:  {NW} Do you ever, um, hear a special call for sheep?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  What
863:  Not around here.
Interviewer:  What about for pigs? It just?
863:  Soo pig. But that, that's, the only reason I even know that one, really, is because that's what they always used to holler at the O-U games. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 At the what? #
863:  #2 Know, # {NW} O-U. Oklahoma University. #1 Texas #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  and Oklahoma play every year in Dallas, and uh, they're called the Razorbacks, you know,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Arkansas hog. And uh, so that's just, more, a cry that I'm sure was a cry to get the pigs in that they used. Up there, you know. Derogatory, I'm sure.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Except, I think they really use it themselves. Woo pig, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That kind of thing.
Interviewer:  How would you call
863:  But I, I'll tell you, if you want the horses in and you're trying to run 'em in and the same thing with the cattle, it's not a call, it's more the way you drive them in because I've gone into the corral to drive them into the thingy. {NW}
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That's the way you do it.
Interviewer:  What would you say to a cow to get her to stand still so you could milk her?
863:  Unprintable. {NW}
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  I don't really know, I, I've milked a cow but uh, she was used to being milked and you didn't have to worry with her, you know?
Interviewer:  What would you say to a horse to get him to turn left or right?
863:  {NW} You mean like gee and haw with a, I don't, you don't say anything to a horse, you rein him you know? #1 He answers #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  the reigns. I've never given him, uh, I've never given a horse oral signals.
Interviewer:  What about to get him started? You'd tell him?
863:  Giddy up.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Giddy up.
Interviewer:  And to stop him?
863:  Whoa.
Interviewer:  And to back him up?
863:  Well, you do that, again, with the signals. My daughter might have some that she spoke to her horse, they understood each other so perfectly but with me it's just reins.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Nearly all of it, sometimes you speak to him but
Interviewer:  How would you call chickens?
863:  Here chick, chick, chick, chick, chick, chick, chick! {C: calling chickens}
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And,
863:  And they, again, are already there, if you have walked out with something in your hand that looks like food,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  they're already there. You don't have to call 'em.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  Um,
863:  They're waiting for you.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The kind of meat that you can pour, you can use for boiling with grease?
863:  You mean, like hog jaws, or something like that?
Interviewer:  Or the salted pork?
863:  Salt pork, yeah.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Salt bacon.
Interviewer:  And, when you cut the side of a hog, you call that the?
863:  The side? That's a loin of pork, I, I'm, I'm not sure what you're talking about?
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a side of bacon or?
863:  Oh yeah.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Oh yes. I've heard of side of bacon that's a, that's a particular #1 if it's #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  the, it's the whole bacon that's not yet been sliced.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And the edge of the bacon that you cut off?
863:  That's probably the salt pork section
Interviewer:  #1 What, #
863:  #2 or the, #
Interviewer:  #1 it's actually the #
863:  #2 or the, um, #
Interviewer:  the skin of the animal. You'd call
863:  Oh that. The rind, you talking bout?
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  And, nowadays the kind of meat that you buy already sliced?
863:  Bacon.
Interviewer:  And, a person who kills and sells meat? Would be a?
863:  Butcher, I guess. #1 Except #
Interviewer:  #2 And #
863:  very few butchers kill 'em anymore, they're killed at the abattoir or the packinghouse, you #1 see? #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  You've now, {X} that you've gotten it departmentalized, the butcher used to do it all. Now he, it's not, it's already killed before it gets to what we call a butcher.
Interviewer:  {NW} Mm-hmm.
863:  Butcher cuts it up but, you know, with modern world, the packer and the, what have you, but anyway, butcher would have been the old term.
Interviewer:  If meat's been kept too long and it doesn't taste right, you'd say that it's?
863:  Rancid.
Interviewer:  Or? It's done what?
863:  Spoiled. I would think I would say it's gone rancid.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I might say it's spoiling.
Interviewer:  What?
863:  Gone bad. #1 That could be it. #
Interviewer:  #2 What inside # parts of the hog would you eat?
863:  Well, of course, you'd take the intestines and stuff them in it's sausage.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, people do eat pork liver. Uh, I used to buy a lot for my cat. And uh, I don't eat all the exotic parts. I've never been fond of any of the things like brains and pig's feet and all that sort of stuff.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of, um, something else made out of the, intestines?
863:  Tripe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Mm-hmm. I don't eat it.
Interviewer:  What about chit?
863:  Well, chitterlings is not internal. Chitterlings is the, the fat, you know, and the skin has been fried.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, it puffs up with the chitterlings I think.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of anything called Haslet or
863:  Cracklings, yeah. Or what?
Interviewer:  Haslet or harslet.
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, after you kill a hog, what can you make with the meat from its head?
863:  Hog's head cheese, which is really brains, isn't it?
Interviewer:  You don't care for that, huh?
863:  {NW} I don't eat the exotic parts. But, now, when you get to interviewing your old-time negro, you're gonna find they eat everything that didn't #1 eat them #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  first.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about, something you could make out of a liver?
863:  Something you can make out a liver, like a pate, or something like that? You can do that out of goose liver.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about things you can make out of hog liver?
863:  Well, I guess, I don't know of anything that you'd make, just particularly out of a hog's liver, I mean uh, not anything that, like liver sausage out of a calf's liver or a, or a cow liver.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What
863:  Beef liver too.
Interviewer:  What's liver sausage like?
863:  Well, I buy it at the store, and I don't know whether it's beef liver or, or anything else but it's, #1 you know, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  It's a, it's ground up very, very fine and mixed with spices and other fillers and things and then, you, you've seen the, the liver, the kind of
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Liver loafs and things like that they make.
Interviewer:  #1 Do you ever #
863:  #2 Slices. #
Interviewer:  hear of anything called scrapple or cripple or?
863:  Well, scrapple is a Philadelphia dish, largely, and it's mixed with cornmeal. Is it made just out of liver? I really don't know what it's #1 made out of, I know it's just #
Interviewer:  #2 It's not really made out of liver, # No.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Do, do people, uh, is scrapple a word that people would know around here?
863:  #1 No. #
Interviewer:  #2 Is that something #
863:  I never heard of it until I went up, Philadelphia, in fact, #1 I think I'd read #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  about it somewhere but that was something that, uh, that people didn't make down here, that I ever heard of
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Or maybe they called it by another name.
Interviewer:  What about something made out of the blood? Do you ever hear of using?
863:  Yeah but I don't know what it was and it wasn't something that I
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  had ever made at our table. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, you'd say this morning, at seven o'clock, I, what, breakfast?
863:  I ate breakfast?
Interviewer:  And yesterday at that time I had #1 already? #
863:  #2 Ate # breakfast. Or I had already eaten it.
Interviewer:  And, if you were real thirsty you would go over to the sink and pour yourself a?
863:  A glass of water.
Interviewer:  And you'd say the glass fell off the sink and?
863:  Broke?
Interviewer:  So somebody has has?
863:  Broken the glass.
Interviewer:  And you say, I didn't mean to?
863:  Break it.
Interviewer:  And, the first thing you do after milking to get the impurities out?
863:  The first thing you do?
Interviewer:  Like if you pour it through a fine cloth, you say you
863:  Oh, you were going to strain it. Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, say if you had butter that was kept too long, and it didn't taste right?
863:  It goes rancid too.
Interviewer:  What about milk that you, you let it get thick, you call that?
863:  Well, they used to call it clabber down here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And my grandfather, particularly, loved clabber.
Interviewer:  What could you make out of that?
863:  I think you could make, uh, cheese, if it lasted that long, you know, cottage cheese.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, say if someone has a good appetite, you'd say, he sure likes to put away his?
863:  Victuals, by the way, I wouldn't use it, I've heard it. I've read it more than anything else.
Interviewer:  What would you call it?
863:  Well, I wouldn't say, put away his, I'd say he likes to eat.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Or what you'd eat, you'd call?
863:  Well, food.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I've heard victuals but it isn't something I use but I think you'll find that some do.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And food taken between regular meals, you'd call #1 that? #
863:  #2 Snacks. #
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Snacks.
Interviewer:  And, you could take, um, milk or cream and mix that with sugar and nutmeg, and make a sweet liquid. You could pour a?
863:  You mean like an eggnog?
Interviewer:  Or, something you could pour over pudding or pie? You'd call that a? Just any sweet liquid?
863:  Something that you poured over pudding and pie?
Interviewer:  Or pie, yeah. Just
863:  Well, we put ice cream on it but {NW} I don't know what your, uh, it, you sound like you are talking about a sauce but, #1 uh, #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  but I'm not sure that we put a sweet sauce like that over any of ours. I mean, we may put, uh, a sauce that that, uh, made out of, um, honey or, or something, I don't, I, I'm #1 not sure what #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you're, or whipped cream we used but I'm not
Interviewer:  #1 Well, #
863:  #2 sure #
Interviewer:  I just wanted you to say sauce, or gravy, or dip or just, you know, which?
863:  Well, a gravy is something that you make, usually, out of flower and shortening or butter and, uh, water.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  With, perhaps, seasonings in it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Salt and pepper, maybe onion, what have you. But a gravy is, is uh,
Interviewer:  It wouldn't be
863:  #1 It's #
Interviewer:  #2 sweet? #
863:  made out of milk drippings, I mean, it's made out of, when I say shortening, it's usually made out of drippings as we #1 call 'em. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  The, or something like that. And it would not be sweet.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And anything that was sweet would probably have to be a sauce.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Now, you can make a sauce almost like a gravy by, say, making a white sauce, you know, or #1 something like #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  this. And then, course, the French call all of their kind of things sauces, some of which, we would, kinda, classify as gravy but #1 if it's #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  got a fancy French name with it, then it's called a sauce.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. You'd say, if you were real thirsty, you'd say, I, what, two glasses of water?
863:  Drank?
Interviewer:  And you'd say how much have you?
863:  Drunk.
Interviewer:  And we certainly do, what, a lot of water?
863:  Drink a lot of water.
Interviewer:  And, something kid of like a fruit pie, it's got several layers of, maybe, apples and strips of dough in it, you'd call that a?
863:  Probably a cobbler.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called a apple flump or deep apple pie or family
863:  I've heard those terms but I never use them.
Interviewer:  Which terms have you heard?
863:  Cobbler.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You, most of 'em are in I've heard it called apple flump because I've read recipes and things like that for 'em but the same thing, I always heard #1 called a #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  cobbler. Only after I got to be grown lady and was reading recipe books did I come across some of those nice terms.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say if dinner was on the table and the family was standing around the table, you'd tell them to go ahead and?
863:  And eat?
Interviewer:  Or go ahead and, what, down?
863:  Or sit down, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  So you'd say, so then he went ahead and
863:  I won't say sat down, you know, uh, that's never been something I've heard but I've heard it, you know, your, your less educated people #1 will say #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  sit down or sit yourself to the table, or some good nice #1 term like #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  that. I do some of this colloquialism in, in dialects #1 sometimes #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  and I write it sometimes too.
Interviewer:  You'd say, um, then he went ahead and he?
863:  He sat down. I would.
Interviewer:  And everybody had already?
863:  sat down before him.
Interviewer:  And, if you want someone not to wait until the potatoes are passed over to 'em, you'd tell 'em just go ahead and?
863:  Help yourself.
Interviewer:  So he went ahead and?
863:  Helped himself.
Interviewer:  And he's already? What?
863:  Helped himself?
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear people say hope? Or hoped us?
863:  Now hep mostly, hep yo-self. {C: pronouncing "help" as "hep" deliberately}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  See, that, that, again, isn't so much, that's a pronunciation
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  and I can do that too but I will say help. Mine will have an, L, in it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But uh, I have been rather shocked from time to time to visit school on PTA visiting night and go in and hear their English teachers saying, and I'm gonna hep {C: pronunciation} these children, you know, {NW} #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  and I'm sure she helped {C: pronunciation} 'em a lot.
Interviewer:  If you decide not to eat something, you'd say, no thank you I don't?
863:  I don't care for any.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  I'd say I don't want any but I don't care for any is, is quite a well known colloquialism down here, and I use it myself.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. If food's been cooked and served a second time, you'd say that it?
863:  Leftovers.
Interviewer:  Or it's been? What?
863:  Recooked or reheated?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Reheated is what I'd say.
Interviewer:  And, you put food in your mouth and then you begin to?
863:  Chew.
Interviewer:  You say, he couldn't eat that piece of meat because it got stuck in his throat and he couldn't?
863:  Swallow it.
Interviewer:  And, what would you call peas and beets and carrots and so forth that you'd raise yourself?
863:  You mean, like, home raised vegetables or homegrown vegetables?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, this is a, a
863:  I think I would have said grown not raised, you know?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I was, I think I was repeating your term. Homegrown would be what I'd call it. Homegrown vegetables.
Interviewer:  And, a Southern food that, um, well people eat for breakfast, is made out of?
863:  Like, grits?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  I don't. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, something that's made out of corn that's soaked in, in lye?
863:  That's hominy. And I don't like that either. But my grandfather always used to have for breakfast, ham and grits and red-eye gravy. Red-eye gravy being ham gravy.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And what would you call whiskey that's made illegally? Out in the
863:  Moonshine.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Moonshine.
Interviewer:  When you say moonshine, are you meaning just any kind of illegal whiskey?
863:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  #2 Or? #
863:  Any kind is what it would refer, all illegal whiskey would be called moonshine. By me.
Interviewer:  Could it be, would it be fit to drink, or?
863:  Not necessarily. I've heard of white lightning.
Interviewer:  What's
863:  Some of it that will make you go blind, but uh, some of it was quite decent.
Interviewer:  White lightning? Could that be just? Would that be a term you used regardless of quality? Just for any
863:  No. White lightning would probably be the kind that would strike you blind if you #1 tried #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  very much of it, you know? But uh, No. Somebody might make some real good moonshine. There can be good moonshine and bad moonshine.
Interviewer:  Would you have a, a term for just poor quality whiskey? Whether it's legal or illegal?
863:  Yes but I can't think of what it is.
Interviewer:  What about beer that you'd make at home? You'd call that?
863:  Home-brew.
Interviewer:  And, say if something was cooking and made a good impression on your nostrils, you'd tell someone, would you just that?
863:  Does it smell good?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And you say to me, would you just?
863:  Just smell that?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say this isn't imitation maple syrup, this is?
863:  The real thing.
Interviewer:  Or this is?
863:  Genuine.
Interviewer:  And, if you were buying something wholesale, like, several hundred pounds at a time, you'd say you were buying it?
863:  In bulk.
Interviewer:  And, a sweet spread you could put on toast or biscuits? Would be jam or?
863:  Or jelly. Preserve.
Interviewer:  And, what you'd have on the table to season food with?
863:  Salt and pepper.
Interviewer:  And if there was a bowl of apples and the child wanted one, he'd tell you?
863:  May I have an apple?
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, he doesn't live here, he lives?
863:  Somewhere else.
Interviewer:  Or he lives?
863:  Over there.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say yonder or yander?
863:  Over yonder? Oh yeah. I'll say that sometimes but, again, I think that you're getting into the realm of, say, slightly exaggerating or, or, or being a little hammy. #1 Or something like that. #
Interviewer:  #2 {X} # {X}
863:  Like, yeah Mary would be even more so than over yonder. I'd say, oh, he lives way over yonder. You know?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But it would have to be kind of far away.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Uh, next door would be over there. In the next county over yonder in the next #1 county, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you understand? But I, I don't think I'd use over yonder very often.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Over there, I'd use all the time.
Interviewer:  And, you'd tell someone, don't do it that way, do it?
863:  This way.
Interviewer:  And, if you don't have any money at all, you say you're not rich, you're
863:  I'm stone broke.
Interviewer:  #1 Or #
863:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  if you
863:  I'm poor.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say
863:  I'm not poor, #1 I'm poor. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  But everybody else around here is poor.
Interviewer:  You'd say, when I was a child, my father was poor but next door was a child? What?
863:  Who was rich?
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  #1 Wealthy? #
Interviewer:  #2 What father was # rich?
863:  Whose father was rich.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Whose father was rich.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if you have a lot of peach trees, you'd say you have a peach?
863:  Orchard.
Interviewer:  And, you might ask someone if that's his orchard and he'd say, no I'm just a neighbor. He'd point to someone else and say he's the man?
863:  Who owns the orchard?
Interviewer:  And, the inside part of a cherry?
863:  The pit.
Interviewer:  What about in a peach?
863:  That's a seed.
Interviewer:  And the part inside the seed?
863:  That's probably a peach pit too. {NW} Aw, inside the seed? Would probably be the, I don't know that I've ever called it anything other than in, in science class.
Interviewer:  What would you call it in science class? Would?
863:  I don't know, is it a dicotyledon or a monocotyledon? {NW} No, that, your peach seed, or a peach pit, you could call it that. Stone, sometimes too.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You know, a but uh, I think I think I would probably refer to it as seed and what's
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Inside of it really is the seed, it's the
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What do you call the kind of peach that you have to cut the seed out of?
863:  Cling.
Interviewer:  What about the other kind? That comes off?
863:  A freestone. That's where the stone comes from, really.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I don't think I'd have ever called it a peach stone except that I know that there's a freestone peach.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see?
Interviewer:  And the part of the apple that you don't eat?
863:  Core.
Interviewer:  And when you cut up apples and dry them, you say you're making?
863:  Dried apples, that would be all I'd call them.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the term snitz?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, what different kinds
863:  But, you know, we don't raise apples down here.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  You know, this sometimes has to be, uh, regional because if you don't raise apples the, or if you don't raise sheep, for instance,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  or herd sheep, why then, you really don't, you're not familiar with the terminology that goes with it. We don't dry apples down here because we don't have them.
Interviewer:  Do they grow in other parts of Texas or?
863:  I don't think apples grow anywhere in Texas. Some peaches grow out in the hill country and then up, perhaps, from Nacogdoches on up, but #1 um, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  you don't get, only pears really grow and plums down here well. And then course, down in the valley, you get all your citrus fruits.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What different kinds of nuts grow around here?
863:  Pecans, of course, most commonly but hickory nuts and uh, walnut and uh, see, what else, those the main ones that grow around here.
Interviewer:  What would be a kind of nut that grows in the ground?
863:  A peanut?
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  Goobers.
Interviewer:  And, would that be a term you'd hear around here or would that?
863:  Again, only jokingly, I think. They, I, we don't grow much around here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Peanuts, just, this isn't peanut country. There are more, there're better crops.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the kind of nut that is sorta shaped like your eye? I don't
863:  Almond.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  But none are grown here.
Interviewer:  And, with a walnut, um, when it first comes off a tree it's got a green covering on it.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  You call that the?
863:  {NW} I really don't know, I've forgotten what you call the outer covering. I have forgotten.
Interviewer:  What would you call the part that you crack?
863:  Well that's what I would call a shell.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, the kind of citrus
863:  That's a sort of a sheathe or it, it has a name but I can't think of what it is.
Interviewer:  A citrus fruit that, about the size of an apple?
863:  The orange. Grapefruit is larger.
Interviewer:  And, if you had a bowl of oranges and one day you went in to get one, and there weren't any left, you'd say the oranges are?
863:  They're gone? I mean
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, say if you had an apple, and it dried out, you'd say, well, the skin of that dried apple was all?
863:  Shriveled.
Interviewer:  And, what different things would people, um, grow in a garden around here?
863:  Around here? Well, you'd probably have greens, and tomatoes, and okra and, cucumbers. Several kinds of greens. Maybe parsley. Uh, squash. That would be, the main things that you would grow here.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of greens?
863:  Oh they're mustard greens and collard greens. Have you heard of collard greens? And uh, and uh turnip greens. You can even eat beet greens and, sometimes, you might have turnips and beets too.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, yes, we had turnips and beets, we grew 'em. And uh, I guess that's all.
Interviewer:  What do you call, um, the kind of tomato that doesn't get any bigger than this?
863:  Cherry tomatoes.
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  Just cherry tomatoes is all I know.
Interviewer:  And a little red thing that grows in the ground?
863:  Radish. Oh yes, you'd raise radishes too. You, probably could go on and raise lettuce, I don't think head lettuce is raised much around here, it's too hot but there's certain times of the year when you can raise the leaf lettuce, particularly.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, if you can keep it from the bugs.
Interviewer:  Tell me about lettuce, if you wanted to buy some, you'd ask for maybe three?
863:  Heads of lettuce.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word heads used about children? Like, say if, someone had five children, say he had five heads of children?
863:  No, we use heads for cattle.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, you had so many head of cattle. But uh, no I've never used it for children.
Interviewer:  What if someone had about 14 children? You'd say he really had a?
863:  A lot of children. Or a houseful.
Interviewer:  Do you ever use
863:  But I'll tell you, going back to it, I've heard counting noses but not #1 and #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  sometimes counting heads if, if, uh, oh, for instance, I've used the term counting heads, never saying somebody had so many head of children or heads but uh, say, really the term I've always used is counting noses. Go see how many are out there so we'll know how many refreshments to fix for the birthday party or something, you, it's called counting noses around #1 here. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  It could be called counting heads too.
Interviewer:  Do you ever, um, well, say if someone had a lot of children, do you ever hear that referred to as a passel?
863:  Oh yes.
Interviewer:  How would
863:  A passel of children or a passel of brats. Yes, I've heard it. It's not something I think I would ordinarily use but uh, it's kind of an old fashioned phrase.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, I don't think I've heard anyone, for instance, I have a friend right now that has ten children but I don't think I'd ever refer to them as a passel.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear passel used to refer to anything besides children?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, say if someone had, about, a thousand acres of land, you'd say he had a?
863:  A ranch. {NW}
Interviewer:  Or a what of
863:  A lot of land.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the e-
863:  Or a big spread.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  But big spread is a Western term, and I think that's because it did spread and it was out in the open.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, and it wasn't divided into little pastures or little parcels of land.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Yes, big spread is a great, big, good Texas word.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression, a right smart, of land?
863:  Yes, I've heard right smart of everything but, again, that's one of those things that I never would personally use but, except, in writing. I used it for a dialect thing I did for the French Trading Post.
Interviewer:  How did you #1 use it? #
863:  #2 Right # smart means a lot of.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Somebody can have a right smart amount of money too.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  So it, it meant a lot of.
Interviewer:  Just, Any, anything that you can count #1 would, #
863:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  would be right smart. Um, and along with your meat, you might have a baked?
863:  Potato.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of potatoes?
863:  Well, Irish potatoes are what we think about, and sometimes Idahoes, and they're called spuds, and then here we have new potatoes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  A lot. New potatoes is, be the only thing really that you'd grow in this part of the country.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The kind of potato that, that's red on the inside.
863:  Oh. Are you talking about, really, sort of orange?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
863:  That's a sweet potato.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Or a yam.
Interviewer:  Is that the same thing?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  And, something that'd make your eyes water if you cut it?
863:  Onion.
Interviewer:  What do you call the little onions that you eat before they get very big?
863:  Well, we just called them green onions down here but I think they're also called scallions and, perhaps even, leeks, although, I think they are a slightly different thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, something about, um, looks kinda like lettuce, would be?
863:  It looks kind of #1 like #
Interviewer:  #2 Yes. #
863:  lettuce?
Interviewer:  Green. Comes in a head.
863:  You mean, a cabbage?
Interviewer:  Okay. #1 Probably got #
863:  #2 Okay. #
Interviewer:  several of those, you'd talk about several?
863:  Cabbages.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Cabbages.
Interviewer:  And, what different kind of beans would people raise around here?
863:  Well, we have snap beans, and uh, pole beans, and course, you get various kinds of dried beans like kidney beans and butter beans, and things like this.
Interviewer:  To get the butter beans out of the pods, you say you have to?
863:  Shell them.
Interviewer:  What about Lima beans?
863:  Butter beans and Lima beans are almost the same thing except the Lima beans are greener and the butter beans are yellower.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about, um, the term green bean or string bean?
863:  Well, green bean can be either a string bean or a snap bean.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And there's not a whole lot of difference between those.
Interviewer:  How can you tell the difference?
863:  Uh, some are stringier than others. The stringier ones are what I call string beans. There are some #1 that don't #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  have very many strings. I think that this may be a matter of modern breeding, I don't know, but, uh, Kentucky wonders are what I tend to call, uh, snap beans, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  because they snap pretty well, and then, there are some that, string beans, and, and I've used one of these little apple peelers, you know,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  to string them off before I cook them.
Interviewer:  And, the kind of corn that is tender enough to eat off the cob?
863:  Well, we call it corn on the cob. Down here, I've never heard it called roasting ears but in other parts of the country I've heard it called roasting ears. Here it's just, it's just sweet corn.
Interviewer:  Where did you hear it called roasting ears?
863:  Oh, first time I ever heard it was, I guess, a friend when I was off at school, who set about roasting ears and I said, you mean just sweet corn? #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  I thought you had to cook it a special way, #1 and she said #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  no, you boil roasting ears. I said, well, then that's just corn on the cob.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. The outside of the ear of corn is the?
863:  The shuck.
Interviewer:  And the stringy stuff?
863:  The tassel. Or the, or we called it the corn silk.
Interviewer:  And, this is the same thing?
863:  Well, the tassel, you know, goes on the outside and then it goes inside, it's corn silk on the inside.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And something you make pie out of at thanksgiving?
863:  Pumpkin.
Interviewer:  And, what different kinds of melons grow around here?
863:  Watermelons, cantaloupes, honeydew melons.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear muskmelon or mushmelon?
863:  I think it's the same thing as a cantaloupe.
Interviewer:  What did people call it?
863:  Cantaloupe. {NW} I've heard it called mushmelon but, uh, everybody else down, ev-, everybody down here always called it a cantaloupe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Were there different kinds of watermelons? Different names for them or?
863:  Well, there, there are some that are striped and some that are all green and then there are some little miniature ones, uh, but I've never heard them particularly called, uh, a different kind,
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 you know? #
Interviewer:  And, something, a little umbrella shape thing that grows up in the woods or field?
863:  Mushroom?
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  Oh, toadstools, fairy stools, that sort of thing. Fairy circles or they used to come in rings, sometimes. But mostly, just mushrooms. Toadstools are the things you see out in your yard, usually.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  When your eating them, they're mushrooms but you don't eat the ones that are out in the yard. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, what people smoke, when out of tobacco?
863:  What did they smoke?
Interviewer:  Well, what, what people smoke would be?
863:  Cigarettes and cigars.
Interviewer:  And, say is someone asked you if you was able to do something, you'd say sure, I?
863:  I can.
Interviewer:  And if you weren't able to, you'd say, no I?
863:  No, I can't.
Interviewer:  And, if you just refused to, you'd say no I?
863:  I absolutely cannot. #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 Or, # they say, will you do that, you'd say, no I?
863:  No I won't. Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, say if there was a, uh, bad accident up the road. You'd say, well, you didn't need to call a doctor because the person was, what, dead by the time we got there?
863:  Already dead?
Interviewer:  Do you ever say, done dead?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, you tell a child, now you're not doing what you?
863:  Ought to do or should do.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And if a child got a whipping, I bet he did something he?
863:  Shouldn't have.
Interviewer:  Or he?
863:  Should not have or shouldn't have is what I
Interviewer:  Or using the word ought, you'd say?
863:  Ought not to have done. {NW} That come out of the episcopal prayer book there. {NS}
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  I said that comes out of the episcopal prayer book. We've done those things which we ought not to have done. But I think I said that he shouldn't have.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Probably not ought not to of.
Interviewer:  And, say if you were doing something that was hard work, and you were doing it all by yourself, and all the time you were working, a friend was just standing around watching you, would you
863:  Goldbricking, you mean?
Interviewer:  When you get through working you tell them, um, you know, instead of just standing there, you know, you might?
863:  Have helped me.
Interviewer:  Okay. Say the whole thing.
863:  Well, instead of just standing there, you might have helped me.
Interviewer:  And, if I ask you if you'll be able to do something next week, you might say, well, I'm not sure I could do it but I
863:  I'll try or I might be able to.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say I might could do it?
863:  No. I wouldn't say that.
Interviewer:  How does that sound to you?
863:  Oh, well, I hear it all the time. You'll, you'll find a lot of it, it's quite a common. I might could do this, I might could do that but it isn't something I would say, but then again, you see, your getting an educated person
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  whose had a lot of that, uh, washed out with soap out of them, #1 you know, #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  {NW} so forth.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  No, I wouldn't say I might could, but uh, but uh, lot of people do.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Some that should be well-educated.
Interviewer:  #1 You'd say um, #
863:  #2 Common. #
Interviewer:  I'm glad I carried my umbrella because we hadn't gone half a block when it?
863:  Began to rain.
Interviewer:  And you'd, say um,
863:  Or it poured down.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  You'd ask someone what time does the movie?
863:  Begin.
Interviewer:  You'd say it must have #1 already? #
863:  #2 Or # start. Must have already begun or it's already started.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say that would be a hard mountain to?
863:  Climb.
Interviewer:  But last year, my neighbor?
863:  Climbed a mountain.
Interviewer:  But I have never?
863:  Climbed a mountain, I don't say clumb. {NW}
Interviewer:  Who says that?
863:  You hear it. Uh, you know, uh, among the people that I regularly see in a social way and my friends I won't hear this but also there are a lot of people that come, for instance, the plumber, the carpenter, the laundry lady, and all these and, and I'm the kind that just happens to like to talk to people and I'm always talking to them and I hear all of this language and I talk to the people like farmers down there, #1 for instance. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  You really wanna talk to some, I can get you some good white farmers down there that are
Interviewer:  Yeah, I
863:  Okay, oh I, oh I've got a couple of good ones.
Interviewer:  How far away is, is your, land?
863:  About twenty miles.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  From here, it's just south of here.
Interviewer:  Well that'd be kind of far away though.
863:  from Beaumont, you mean?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Well, Charlie can find you some good ones that are in town but our farmers that are all down there that work for us
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  And uh, these are people with very little education, most of them, say, a high school education. But a good country high school education, which is not necessarily a very literate education.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's a, you could say it's those few terms can be used together.
Interviewer:  #1 You have mainly, um, #
863:  #2 Uh. #
Interviewer:  cattle down there or?
863:  No. this is really, mainly, rice farming and sardine farming now. It used to be cattle but we've turned, this is the one just my husband and I own.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. How many people does it take to?
863:  Well, we have tenant farmers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You see, the farmers rent the land and get the water from us and then give us a percentage of their crop.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, these are quite the substantial people, they own their own equipment, they have all kinds of, tractors and trucks, and things like this. They're, uh, but they're, they're products of our local high schools right out of, say, Winnie and Hampshire, and uh, this is right down, just twenty #1 miles #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  south of here, it's, it's twenty miles south of where we are living, probably fifteen miles south of the
Interviewer:  #1 Well, if it was #
863:  #2 city limits, maybe. #
Interviewer:  it'd still be?
863:  Oh it's #1 still, #
Interviewer:  #2 farther than #
863:  I mean it would still be within the same linguistic area, and on this farm, I can take you to mr Johnson who is a good Cajun and absolutely illiterate.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  Can only write his name, I don't think he can read anything. He can't even read numbers, I don't think, because when, uh, when he has to call us, he has to get someone else to dial the telephone. I'm serious. On the other hand, all the rest of the people that work for us are pretty substantial citizens, not well-educated, but uh, they're pretty prosperous farmers.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, #1 they're, #
Interviewer:  #2 You ever sound like? #
863:  they, they aren't so much working for us, they
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  they are our #1 tenant farmers #
Interviewer:  #2 They're just running # the land?
863:  They, we, we get a percentage of the crop for the use of our land. and in some cases our allotment.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What do they have they have a cotton allotment here and tobacco?
863:  Yes but we're not in that kind of country. You're not raising cotton here, you'd have to go up, maybe, a hundred miles from here to start cotton.
Interviewer:  What would you have an allotment for if you?
863:  Well, the government only allows you to, uh, raise so many acres of, of whatever it is you're raising, for instance, we have, uh, a allotment to raise so many acres of rice and then our farmers have allotments too.
Interviewer:  They, they do rice the same way they do cotton.
863:  Yes. And peanuts, and a whole lot of other things #1 that are on the allotment system. #
Interviewer:  #2 I thought it was just # mainly cotton and tobacco.
863:  Well, we are waiting to see what the government is going to do this year because they may do away with the allotment system. Uh, in which case, they've done away with a lot of investment because uh, allotment was something you also bought along with land.
Interviewer:  Like buying futures? Or is that something different?
863:  Well, a little different from futures. Allotment was the right to buy and uh, or you don't want to go into all this. {NW} #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 I, I think I don't know #
863:  #1 but it's, but #
Interviewer:  #2 too much about #
863:  you do have only the right to so man-, so much, for instance, the farmer may have a right to, to uh, plant five hundred acres
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  of rice. And he can plant it any where he wants to, he can plant three hundred on my land and two hundred on somebody else's.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But as long as he only plants five hundred acres.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Now, if I have allotment, and I can't plant it this year, for instance, my son owns some allotment and he's now in college. He leases this allotment to this man.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And he plants Bill's allotment which is what he's doing. Bill used to plant his own when he was in high school. But now, he leases it out to our farmers because he's in college and he's
Interviewer:  Oh, I
863:  #1 in #
Interviewer:  #2 see #
863:  college both during the planting season and during the harvesting season so he cannot raise his own rice right now. And uh, so he, he finds it easier to lease out and he tried it one year but getting someone else to look after your rice is hard
Interviewer:  Yeah.
863:  so it's just better for him to lease the allotment. He doesn't make as much, of course.
Interviewer:  Um, you'd say, that's the book that you, what, me for Christmas?
863:  Gave me.
Interviewer:  Okay, and you'd say, you have?
863:  Given me.
Interviewer:  And, when I'm finished with it, I'll?
863:  Give it to someone else.
Interviewer:  And, if you got someone some medicine, you go in and say, why haven't you?
863:  Taken your medicine.
Interviewer:  The person would say, well, I already?
863:  I've already taken it.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Or I took it an hour ago.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and in another hour I'll?
863:  I'll take some more.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, he was feeling so good that instead of walking he, what, all the way home?
863:  Ran?
Interviewer:  Okay, and you'd say, he has?
863:  Run a good race.
Interviewer:  And, children like to?
863:  Run everyday.
Interviewer:  And, the kind of bird that can see in the dark?
863:  An owl.
Interviewer:  What different kinds of owls are there?
863:  Well, there's, down here, of course, we've even seen a snowy owl down here but we have, uh, horned owls, and screech owls, and barred owls, and barn owls.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between
863:  #1 Oh, they're just different #
Interviewer:  #2 all of those? #
863:  breeds. I have a book over there. {NW}
Interviewer:  What, you mentioned a barred?
863:  Barred.
Interviewer:  What does that look like?
863:  Well, he's got bars on him, it's a, it's just his coloration, and the markings.
Interviewer:  On his face?
863:  Mm-hmm. He's different from a barn. B-A-R-N owl. He's a barred owl. #1 And then #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  there's a screech owl. And uh, the old owl that we call an eight-hooter down here.
Interviewer:  A what?
863:  Eight-hooter, you've heard an eight hooter.
Interviewer:  Never heard that name.
863:  {NW} #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 {NS} # {NS}
Interviewer:  What about the kind of bird that drills holes in trees?
863:  It's a woodpecker.
Interviewer:  Any other names for them?
863:  {NW} No, except that, uh, I know several of them a-, apart, you know? But they're just, except for like redheaded woodpecker, you #1 know, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  and yellow-bellied, red-bellied woodpecker and a yellow-bellied sap-sucker and we have a wonderful one. The Pileated Woodpecker, who's the huge one, probably the kind Woody Woodpecker is and uh, they did call him a my God or a Lord God down here because
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  the story is that when you see them, you say my God, that's the biggest bird I ever #1 saw, you know. #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} # Is that what, what you would call it or?
863:  No, I'd call him a Pileated Woodpecker.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear them called a peckerwood?
863:  Yes. Uh, I've heard it called that but it isn't anything that I would call it and I really think I've not so much heard it called that as read
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 it. #
Interviewer:  Read it called a?
863:  A peckerwood, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word peckerwood or used about people?
863:  Well, in quite a bad sense.
Interviewer:  What would it mean?
863:  Oh you really wouldn't wanna know. {NW}
Interviewer:  Yeah I would.
863:  Well, it has to do with a part of the male anatomy.
Interviewer:  Did, you heard someone call?
863:  No, I've read it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What'd you read it in?
863:  It was in a, I think it was in a a book maybe, let's see, I think the first time I ever ran across it because I don't read much of the pornographic literature, except occasionally if it's well written, happened to be in a book about Shanghai Pierce, and he was discussing, uh, his daughter's marriage to a #1 young #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  cowboy.
Interviewer:  You heard it, uh, with the word wood or do you hear
863:  I don't
Interviewer:  #1 pecker or #
863:  #2 remember #
Interviewer:  peckerwood or?
863:  I, I just know that I've heard it
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  used that way.
Interviewer:  And, a kind of black and white animal that's got a real strong smell?
863:  Skunk. Or a polecat.
Interviewer:  Is that #1 the same thing? #
863:  #2 Either one. # Same thing.
Interviewer:  And, say, if some animals had been coming and killing your chickens, um, what general, you didn't know exactly what kind of animal it was, what general
863:  Probably a wolf down here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Predator, you're talking about but it's probably a wolf down here, other places it might be a weasel.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear a general name for animals like that? Do you ever hear varmints?
863:  Oh yeah, but varmints are also things like rats.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Varmints are any, uh, unpleasant animal that does damage to you, whether it's to your crops or to your stock.
Interviewer:  Would it be a mouse? Would that be a varmint?
863:  Yes, a mouse could be a varmint.
Interviewer:  And, a bushy tailed animal that gets up in the trees?
863:  You mean a squirrel?
Interviewer:  What different kinds of squirrels?
863:  Well, there are grey squirrels and brown squirrels and tree squirrels and uh,
Interviewer:  What is a
863:  #1 There is #
Interviewer:  #2 tree #
863:  a ground squirrel in other parts of Texas.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What does a tree squirrel look like?
863:  Well, there's one out in the back yard. In fact, there are about ten or twelve out there but, you know, it's just a nice little grey fellow that runs up and #1 down with his #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  long bushy tail. There are also flying squirrels.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Can a ground squirrel climb trees?
863:  I expect he probably can.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And what different kinds of fish do people get around here?
863:  Catfish, trout, bass, perch.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, #1 Lots #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  more, mackerel You talking bout river fish or, or, uh,
Interviewer:  Well, both.
863:  Well, you get, uh, course trout and mackerel, um, out in the gulf, bass, flounder, red fish, red snapper,
Interviewer:  What else do they get from the gulf besides fish?
863:  Shrimp.
Interviewer:  Hmm?
863:  Shrimp.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Crabs.
Interviewer:  What about something that pearls grow in?
863:  Well, oysters are not so much out in the gulf. The oysters are in the bay but yes we have lots of oyster
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  or we did before the dreg just did so much damage. Now they've closed down the dredging we'll probably have better oyster reefs.
Interviewer:  And, something that you'd find in a freshwater stream? It looks kinda like a lobster.
863:  Down here we call them crawfish.
Interviewer:  And something that's got a hard shell, it can pull it's neck and legs into it's shell?
863:  Turtle.
Interviewer:  Does the turtle stay on land or water?
863:  Well, I think they can do both. We have some terrapin that are strictly land turtles that do not go into the water but I think nearly all the water turtles can come out on land.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, something you'd hear making a, um, croaking noise around a lake at night?
863:  You mean a frog?
Interviewer:  What do you call the big ones?
863:  Bullfrogs.
Interviewer:  And the tiny ones?
863:  Leap frogs, maybe, or just little frogs.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about the ones that get up in the trees?
863:  Well, they're tree frogs. Croak whenever it's gonna rain.
Interviewer:  And, the kind that stays on land?
863:  Hop toads, probably. Toads. #1 We have #
Interviewer:  #2 And, #
863:  lots of garden toads, we,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  hop toads is just a, I don't know, it's just something, probably, that I picked up in my own family.
Interviewer:  Say, if you wanted to go fishing, what would you dig up to go fishing with?
863:  Worms.
Interviewer:  Any different kinds, or?
863:  Well, some people call them angleworms, with me it woulds just be earthworm.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, I've dug them up for my son to go fishing with and with some regret because they're so good for the soil.
Interviewer:  {NW} What about a kind of fish you could use for bait?
863:  Well, little, little minnows.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, a kind of insect that flies around a light and tries to fly into it?
863:  Moth?
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Moth.
Interviewer:  If you're talking about several of those?
863:  Moths.
Interviewer:  And, an insect that has a light in its tail?
863:  Lightning bug. Or a firefly.
Interviewer:  Is that the same thing?
863:  Same thing.
Interviewer:  And, something that would bite you and make you itch?
863:  Mosquito.
Interviewer:  And, a tiny red insect?
863:  Red bug.
Interviewer:  And something
863:  Chigger, also.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Chigger, also.
Interviewer:  Which would you probably call it?
863:  Well, I would call it a red bug except that you call it a chigger bite. {NW}
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And they're interchangeable and, uh, everybody calls them both.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, I, there's just really no difference.
Interviewer:  Say, if you hadn't cleaned a room in a while up in the ceiling, in the corner, you might find a?
863:  A spider web.
Interviewer:  Would you call it the same thing if it's outside #1 across a bush? #
863:  #2 Yep. #
Interviewer:  And, a kind of insect that's got a long, thin body and hard beak, and two pairs of wings? Would be around damp places?
863:  A long, thin body and a hard beak?
Interviewer:  Yeah. And it's got two pairs of real shiny wings. It's about this size. It's supposed to eat mosquitoes and
863:  You mean a mosquito hawk or
Interviewer:  Okay.
863:  dragonfly, either one.
Interviewer:  That's the same insect?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear them called a snake doctor? Or a snake fever?
863:  Yes, and uh, witch's horse or several other things but only rarely. Uh, actually, I think everybody just refers to them either as a dragonfly or a or a mosquito hawk here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Those are just the two main terms.
Interviewer:  And an insect that hops around in the grass?
863:  A cricket perhaps or a
Interviewer:  Or a little?
863:  Grasshopper?
Interviewer:  Do you ever heard them called hoppergrass?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And what kinds of insects will sting you?
863:  Bees. Wasps.
Interviewer:  What about something that builds a nest like this?
863:  Hornets?
Interviewer:  And, little yellow and black striped insect? Kind of like a bee or a wasp? Do you ever hear of a yellow?
863:  Oh, yellow jackets, yes, but I kind of, I kind of of, uh, classify them as a wasp. Are they not?
Interviewer:  Mm-mm. I think they're kind of like
863:  They're, yellow jackets are just a particular wasp, as far as I'm concerned, but, I mean, this is not {NW} not {X} far as the, botanists are concerned, of a, what have you.
Interviewer:  Where do they build their nests?
863:  Yellow jackets, I think, up under the eves of houses and things like that, sometimes in trees.
Interviewer:  What about
863:  I think they attach theirs from the
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  top, and make, what I call, a wasp's nest. You know, a yellow jacket's nest is just a wasp's nest for me and the hornets, course, come more all the way around.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Something that builds a nest out of dirt or mud?
863:  Dirt dauber.
Interviewer:  Do they sting?
863:  Yes, I think they can but I, uh, uh, yes, I think they can sting.
Interviewer:  And, the part of the tree that grows under the ground is called the?
863:  The roots.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of using certain kinds of roots or vines for medicine?
863:  Oh yes.
Interviewer:  Do you remember what any of them were?
863:  I think sassafras root is used.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, oh my, quite a lot are, probably, used uh, sassafras just comes to mind. I probably could think of some more in a minute. But anyway,
Interviewer:  What about the kind of tree that you tap for syrup?
863:  Maple.
Interviewer:  And a big group of those? Growing together? Would be a?
863:  I suppose you could call it a maple grove. Do they call it a copse or something else? You know, we don't have maples much down here.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What different kinds of trees do y'all have down here?
863:  Oh, of course, the main one is oaks.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  We have lots of oaks but then you have some of the other, uh, trees, like the walnut and uh, not cherry though. Uh, we have um, a lot of these little things like tallows and of course pines.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  All kinds of pines. We have um, hickory. I'm trying to think, other than the things that have been brought in by people, you know, I can name you all these lovely flowers and trees around here but they're not native.
Interviewer:  What are some of the flowering trees around here?
863:  Well, we'll have the mimosa and, and various, there's, um, uh, golden shower's trees. These are all flowering trees that you order and they, they #1 grow #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  very well but they were not native here.
Interviewer:  What about a tree that's got big white flowers and
863:  Magnolias of course.
Interviewer:  And, a tree that it's got um, long, white limbs and white scaly bark you can, sort of, peel off?
863:  Well, we don't have birch down here but I'll tell you what we have that looks almost the same thing is sycamore.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, kind of a a bush or shrub that's got pink or white flowers? Blooms in late spring?
863:  You talking bout an azalea?
Interviewer:  Or, well, larger than that?
863:  Pink and white flowers. Other than the fruit trees, you're talking about?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Well, of course, we have down here, now, the only kind of cherries and, and peaches you're gonna have mostly are flowering but, uh, you get various and you can get the crab apple. But, again, they mostly just flower, they don't bear much fruit down in this part but you have a lot of, uh, pink and white both, I think on the um, plum. And, and our main fruit trees, really, are the plum and the um, pears. And then we, of course, have a lot of figs.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Things like that.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of something called a spoonwood or a spoonhunt or
863:  No.
Interviewer:  mountain laurel or?
863:  Mountain laurel, I've heard of but we don't have it here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about
863:  Now, there's a mountain laurel, of course we, we don't have rhododendrons here, we have azaleas.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But not the rhododendrons. Those will grow mostly in the east, where there's a little bit of, uh, elevation. Now, there's a Texas mountain laurel but it's entirely different and has a lavender flower.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's not the same thing as your eastern mountain laurel at all.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between a mountain laurel and a rhododendron?
863:  I suspect, only, a slight difference in species.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Along the way.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  They're all the same sort of thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Kind of shrub that, uh, the leaves turn bright red, and it's got clusters of berries on it?
863:  That the leaves turn right, right red. You know, again, you're talking to someone in a part of the country that very rarely has freezes and we don't have very many pretty colors. But if your talk- but holly doesn't turn #1 red #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  so it isn't that.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of sumac or shoemake?
863:  Mm-hmm. It grows along the sides of the road, not #1 so much #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  down here but, say, from Nacogdoches on up around Tyler and along that.
Interviewer:  You, what would you call that?
863:  Sumac.
Interviewer:  And, what different kinds of berries would, well, grow around here or would you buy at the store here?
863:  Well, of course, we have blackberries, and dewberries, and young berries, which are all about the same kid of berries. {NW} No raspberries down here, uh, got your strawberries no blueberries down here. We get, uh, mayhaws, which you probably don't get in many other parts of the country but they grow on a tree and in the swamps and they fall down on the water and people go and get them and, oh, they make good jelly. #1 And that's #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  the main berries.
Interviewer:  Say, if you saw some berries and didn't know what kind they were, you'd tell someone, you better not eat those, they might be?
863:  Poisonous.
Interviewer:  And what kind of bushes or vines will make your skin break out?
863:  {NW} Well, we have the, um, bull nettles, and the poison ivy, and poison oak here. {NS} Want to turn it off?
Interviewer:  Poison oak. How do you
863:  Poison ivy and poison oak.
Interviewer:  How do you tell the difference?
863:  The different leaves.
Interviewer:  What, what do they look like?
863:  Well, the poison ivy has, uh, the three leaves it's a traditional and the poison oak has this little bit different leaf and it doesn't grow in threes.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, say if a married woman didn't want to make up her own mind about something, she'd say, well, I have to ask?
863:  My husband.
Interviewer:  And he'd say I have to ask?
863:  My wife.
Interviewer:  Any joking ways that refer to each other?
863:  I'm sure there are but it's not so much regional as something they're picking up on television, you know, you can call them now, the old woman or the old lady or the war department or what have you.
Interviewer:  And, a woman whose husband is dead is called a?
863:  Widow.
Interviewer:  And, if he just left her, then she'd be a?
863:  In a mess. {NW}
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the expression grass widow?
863:  Grass widow has always been referred to, in my hearing, as one who is divorced.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the man whose child you are, is called your?
863:  My father.
Interviewer:  And his wife is your?
863:  My mother.
Interviewer:  And together, they're your?
863:  Parents.
Interviewer:  Um, what did people call their father and mother?
863:  You mean beside mother, and daddy, and things like that? They call them the folks. Wi-, this is one in my family, we always call them the folks.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, or going off to Houston, the folks are back or something like that.
Interviewer:  And, your father's father would be your?
863:  My grandfather.
Interviewer:  What did you call him? Or what would people call
863:  Granddaddy.
Interviewer:  And, his wife would be your?
863:  Grandmother.
Interviewer:  And, you'd call her?
863:  Grandmother.
Interviewer:  And, something on wheels that you can put a baby in, and it will lie down?
863:  Carriage.
Interviewer:  You put the baby in the carriage and then you go out and?
863:  Push the carriage, I guess.
Interviewer:  And, if you had two children, you might have a son and a?
863:  Daughter.
Interviewer:  Or a boy and a?
863:  Girl.
Interviewer:  And Bob is five inches taller this year. You'd say, in one year, Bob?
863:  Has grown.
Interviewer:  Or he?
863:  Really shot up.
Interviewer:  Or he what?
863:  Sprouted up, even, but mostly shot up or he grew up a lot. Or he's gotten taller.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, if a child is misbehaving, you'd tell them, if you do that again, you're gonna get a?
863:  A whipping.
Interviewer:  Anything else you'd
863:  Or a spanking, with me it would probably be a spanking.
Interviewer:  Which would be worse?
863:  Well, a whipping, I think, would involve a whip.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Perhaps, a switch, but I think that I always called it a spanking was what you did with your hand
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  and a switching was what you did with a little switch out there and it was very effective
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  and a whipping would be something very bad, I think.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I don't think I ever whipped my children. They did get some spankings.
Interviewer:  And, if a boy has the same color hair and eyes that his father has and the same shape nose, you'd say that he?
863:  You'd probably say that he's the spitting-image.
Interviewer:  Okay.
863:  #1 That's a good, #
Interviewer:  #2 Or he? #
863:  old term.
Interviewer:  He
863:  #1 But #
Interviewer:  #2 what? #
863:  he looks like his father or he resembles his father?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, if a woman was gonna have a child, you'd say that she's?
863:  Expecting. Or she is pregnant.
Interviewer:  Did people used to use the term pregnant much? Or did that sound a little
863:  No, I don't think they used to use it very much but they do now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What did people used to say?
863:  Expecting. Or in a family way, I've heard that #1 it isn't #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  anything I've ever used but I've heard it, when I was a child, said that way.
Interviewer:  Any joking expressions or vulgar expressions?
863:  Oh I'm sure there are but I don't think I use them.
Interviewer:  And, if you didn't have a doctor to deliver a baby, the woman you could send for?
863:  Would have been a midwife.
Interviewer:  And, a child that's born to a woman that's not married, would be called a?
863:  Illegitimate or a bastard.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called a wood colt or a bush child or anything like that?
863:  Yes, but not, no not really not around here, I've, I've, I think I've more read that. #1 You know? #
Interviewer:  #2 Which? #
863:  I, I've never heard anyone call them that around #1 here. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  It's just something that you've read in literature.
Interviewer:  Which terms have you read?
863:  Both.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, you brother's son would be called your?
863:  My nephew.
Interviewer:  And, the child that's lost both parents would be a?
863:  An orphan.
Interviewer:  And, the person that's supposed to look after the orphan would be his legal?
863:  Guardian.
Interviewer:  And, if you have a lot of cousins, and nephews, and nieces around, you'd say, this town if full of my?
863:  Family. Or my kin.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, well she
863:  Or relatives, either one.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Any of them.
Interviewer:  She has the same family name and she looks a little bit like me but actually we are no?
863:  Kin.
Interviewer:  And, someone who comes into town, and nobody has ever seen them before?
863:  Stranger.
Interviewer:  What if he came from a different country?
863:  Be a foreigner then, I suppose.
Interviewer:  Would you ever use the word foreigner about someone who was a stranger but who wasn't from a different country?
863:  No, I wouldn't.
Interviewer:  And, a woman who conducts school would be a?
863:  Schoolmistress or a teacher.
Interviewer:  And, the name of the mother of Jesus?
863:  Mary.
Interviewer:  And George Washington's wife?
863:  Martha.
Interviewer:  And do you remember a song, um, it started out, wait 'til the sun shines
863:  Nellie.
Interviewer:  And, a male goat is called a?
863:  Billy.
Interviewer:  And, a boy nicknamed Billy, his full name would be?
863:  William, probably.
Interviewer:  And, if your father had a brother by that name, you'd call him?
863:  Probably Uncle Bill.
Interviewer:  Or, if you use the full name?
863:  Uncle William.
Interviewer:  And, President Kennedy's first name was?
863:  John.
Interviewer:  And if you your father had a brother by that name?
863:  He would be Uncle John.
Interviewer:  And, the first book in the New Testament? In the Bible?
863:  Matthew.
Interviewer:  And, the name of the wife of Abraham?
863:  Sarah?
Interviewer:  And, what they used to call a barrel maker?
863:  Cooper.
Interviewer:  And a married woman with that last name would be?
863:  mrs Cooper.
Interviewer:  And, what relation would my mother's sister be to me?
863:  Your mother's sister would be your aunt.
Interviewer:  And, say a preacher that's not very well-trained, just sort of preaches here and there, and he's not very good at preaching? You'd call him a?
863:  I w-
Interviewer:  Say a preacher that's not very well-trained, just sort of preaches here and there makes his living doing something else. You'd call him a?
863:  Oh, I don't know. Part time. {NS} Or maybe even that old term jackleg, you know, which means anything that's not well done.
Interviewer:  What else would you use jackleg about besides a preacher?
863:  Well, any job, it could be a carpenter job, or a plumbing job or anything that's, that's no well done or professionally done, you know, sort of haphazard.
Interviewer:  What about a mechanic? Would you call him a jackleg, or?
863:  You could. Uh, What would I call a mechanic? I really, I really don't have a particular term.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of a shade tree mechanic?
863:  Yes, but that doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as jackleg. Uh, A shade tree is, probably, one who has his own uh, little business that's under the shade of a tree, in other words, he may not even have a a building but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's not a good one. Sometimes, a shade tree mechanic, if he has real natural ability, though he may not have any capital investment,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  is a better mechanic than some of them that have got some big, glossy buildings and hire some real jackleg mechanics, you know?
Interviewer:  Would you s- use the term shade tree about anything else beside mechanic? Or is that something you associate
863:  Most of the time, I think, it had to do with fixing an automobiles under the shade of a tree. I really don't think I've ever heard it used with anything else.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say you throw a ball and ask somebody to?
863:  Catch it?
Interviewer:  And I threw the ball and he?
863:  I caught it or he caught it.
Interviewer:  And I've been fishing but I haven't?
863:  Caught anything.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say he ran down the springboard and, what, into the water?
863:  He dived into the water.
Interviewer:  And several children have?
863:  Dived into the water.
Interviewer:  And he was to scared to?
863:  To dive.
Interviewer:  And if you dive in and hit the water flat, you call that a?
863:  Belly buster.
Interviewer:  And, say a child puts her head on the ground and rolls over, she turns a?
863:  Somersault.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say he dived in and, what, across?
863:  He swam across the pool.
Interviewer:  And several children have?
863:  Have saw across the pool.
Interviewer:  And children like to?
863:  They like to swim.
Interviewer:  And, if you don't know how to swim, you get in the water, you might?
863:  You might drown.
Interviewer:  And yesterday, somebody?
863:  Drowned.
Interviewer:  And, when they pulled him out, he had already?
863:  Drowned.
Interviewer:  And, the highest rank in the army, would be?
863:  General.
Interviewer:  And beneath a general?
863:  {NW} Colonel.
Interviewer:  And, a person in charge of a ship?
863:  Is generally a captain, could be an admiral.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word captain used in other situations?
863:  Oh yes, you have captains of industry. #1 I'm the #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  captain of my fate.
Interviewer:  What about, um, say, colored people calling the man they worked for captain? Do you ever hear that?
863:  Mostly colonel in the South.
Interviewer:  Was that very common? Addressing people as colonel?
863:  Oh yes, everybody had the honorary title of colonel who had never been in the military.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  We had one in our family. Colonel Avril. Never been in the military, and he was retired all of his life. But he was a very imposing figure,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  you know, fine head of white hair and fine, flowing, white beard and, everybody call him colonel.
Interviewer:  I guess it's just white people as, as well as colored people would call him
863:  #1 Oh yes, #
Interviewer:  #2 colonel? #
863:  everybody called him Colonel Avril.
Interviewer:  And, a person, um, who presides over the court, would be a?
863:  judge.
Interviewer:  And someone who goes to school?
863:  Student.
Interviewer:  And a woman who works in an office and does the typing?
863:  Secretary.
Interviewer:  And a man on the stage would be an actor, a woman would be a?
863:  Actress.
Interviewer:  And if you're born in the United States, you say your nationality is?
863:  American.
Interviewer:  And, what different words were there for colored people?
863:  Good and bad, you mean? Blacks. Negroes. I call them negroes but I notice that my aunt, and most of the older people in my family, always called them negras. It #1 always #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  ends in an a. The negras, you know?
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, oh and there are a whole lot of terrible ones, like coons and things like that but I was educated not to ever call them anything, as a matter of a fact, I had my mouth washed out for saying nigger. That was #1 not #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  considered to be a nice word. Although, I certainly hear it a lot.
Interviewer:  What would, be the most uh, common term you would use?
863:  Negro.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Do you, what about the term colored, or
863:  #1 Well, yes #
Interviewer:  #2 black, do you? #
863:  I use colored and, nowadays, I use black, because that's what they want. It's alright with me.
Interviewer:  What would you call a, um, real light-skinned negro?
863:  Probably a mulatto or, maybe, a high yellow.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  High yellow was a good term.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  And, actually, that was one I picked up from colored people, themselves, not, ever, from whites.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  They always used to refer to them, and scornfully, as a high yellow.
Interviewer:  What about mulatto? Does that
863:  Mulatto, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  mean that their, one parent's white, or does it
863:  Well, it means that they have white blood in them.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about a real dark-skinned negro?
863:  Well, just a real black one.
Interviewer:  No special names?
863:  Probably are, and I can't think of what they are.
Interviewer:  And someone of our race, we'd call?
863:  We'd probably call them white
Interviewer:  Any other terms for whites?
863:  Well, caucasian but that's not a term, if you say what #1 race #
Interviewer:  #2 {NW} #
863:  are you, I say white.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Because that's generally the term that you find on any papers that, uh, you have to like your license or your what have you. {NS}
Interviewer:  And, white people that, um, you sort of look down on, they, they don't have any money or any education but they don't want to seem to do anything for themselves. They
863:  Well, there was a good ol' Southern term, again, something that I never heard from my parents or any member of my family but picked up from colored people who, again, looked down on them and called them poor white trash.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Only, you pronounce it poor white trash.
Interviewer:  Is, that term, poor white trash, used um, by white people ever?
863:  Yes.
Interviewer:  But it was just something that
863:  But we were, we just had the kind of family that were never #1 allowed to use #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  that because it was not considered nice.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Any other
863:  Yes, I've heard it a lot. #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. # Any other terms that, um, blacks would use for whites that they look down on?
863:  Lots of them, and as a matter of fact, discussing it with my maid this morning, and she said that peckerwood was something that colored people,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  uh, referred to whites and that was first time I'd heard it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And uh, I'm sure they had a lot of them besides the whitey that's current now.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But, you know, I really don't know what they all are.
Interviewer:  What would you call, um, someone that lives way out in the country and doesn't get into town much and when he does get into town, you can tell immediately that
863:  A hick or a hayseed.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-kay. #
863:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
Interviewer:  {NS} And, the French people in Louisiana are called?
863:  The Cajuns.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Mostly just Cajuns and, of course, it's supposed to be short for Acadians but nobody ever says Acadian, they always say Cajun.
Interviewer:  What about a joking name or sort of a crude-sounding name?
863:  Well, I really don't know.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the term coonie or #1 coonhead? #
863:  #2 Oh yes. # Oh yes. I've heard those.
Interviewer:  How would those be used?
863:  Usually by one talking about another {NW}
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Uh, really, as a matter of a fact, because we were never allowed to call names and really I had to grow up and read books before I ever heard such things as wop or kike or any of those things. These were not terms that I ever used but I think it was, perhaps, the gentile society that I was brought up in and perhaps we were protected from some of those things like knowledge of other things that go on. We didn't know that a {X} place existed. But I do know that in a lower economic level that these things are quite commonly #1 used, #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  I mean we were, we were sort of insulated against it.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I had to find it out, much later. Usually, by reading. Since then I've heard people call them, for instance, I know a good Cajun friend who's very successful and owns his own business and he'll say, an old coon-ass like me.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know, well, I wouldn't call him that for anything in this world, if he wants to call himself that, it's alright. But I know that he is referred to it and has been referred to it but he would, he wouldn't hate, he wouldn't like it either if he weren't #1 so #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  successful. He calls himself that without really believing he's that, {NW} you see. {NS} #1 But I've heard #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  the terms.
Interviewer:  Any other terms for, any special terms for Mexicans? People of Mexican descent?
863:  Oh yeah, I've heard them called spics which of course was for speaking Spanish and, and Mexes and we, Tex-Mex was, something we used to use a lot of and greasers. Again, these were things that I never used but, uh, I've heard those. I've heard people talk about them. Usually, the people who use most of those terrible nicknames are the people in an economic class nearer to them or who consider themselves, they're the Archie Bunkers. Uh, they're, I was just never allowed to use those things.
Interviewer:  Does Tex-Mex seem derogatory or? Is that a
863:  Yes, in a way, uh, for instance, if you, if someone says do you speak Spanish, you say, oh, a little Tex-Mex, meaning, I speak some words of Spanish but had, sort of devoid of grammar. {NW} Uncontaminated by grammar, you know? That sort of thing and, perhaps, in the same way that you would say Cockney for English or something #1 like #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  that, not necessarily bad but not necessarily good either.
Interviewer:  What about the term chicano?
863:  That's brand new. Chicano, uh, this is something they've invented in the last five years. Never heard Chicano.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Does it seem derogatory to you or does it
863:  No, because I think it's something they've made up to call themselves.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, say if you were at a party and you look at your watch and see that it's around eleven thirty or so, you'd say, well we better be getting home it's, what, midnight?
863:  Nearly midnight.
Interviewer:  And, if you were, if it was kind of icy outside, you'd say, well, that ice is hard to walk on. I didn't actually fall down but a couple of times I slipped and I?
863:  Nearly fell, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say, I liked to?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  Have you heard it?
863:  Oh yes, all the time but again, you're talking to someone who's been educated and, and and you don't use that.
Interviewer:  {NS} How, well how have you heard people use that?
863:  Oh, I like to have fallen, I like to have died, you know, I was #1 so scared #
Interviewer:  #2 mm-hmm. #
863:  that I like to have died or something like that, you know.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  This isn't anything that I would ordinarily say because it's just not within my ordinary speaking
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  patterns but, uh, yes, you hear them all the time. But I don't always pick up these things. I hear them and know what they are but
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I don't pick them up.
Interviewer:  And, say if someone is waiting on you to get ready to go somewhere calls out and asks if you'll be ready soon you say, I'll be with you in?
863:  In a moment.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Or in a minute.
Interviewer:  Or in ju-
863:  Or in just a minute, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, if I ask you, um, when are y'all going to Houston, you might say, well, right now we're, what to go next week?
863:  Right now?
Interviewer:  As things stand now, were
863:  Or as things stand now which, really, isn't exactly what I'd say We're planning to go next week #1 would #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. #
863:  be
Interviewer:  Do you ever say we're aiming to go or #1 we're fixing #
863:  #2 No. #
Interviewer:  to go?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  Did
863:  Occasionally I said fixing but it's almost always, again, like, the same way I'd use ain't.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's not a speech pattern as, as hamming it up a little bit.
Interviewer:  When you say
863:  But yes, I hear it all the time.
Interviewer:  With fixing, um, do you get the impression that it's something immediate or could it be a couple of weeks away?
863:  Probably more immediate.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I was just fixing to do my hair, something like this, you know. Uh, it, it, it would be something that they're just preparing to do right now or just getting ready to.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I think fixing would be in the term of just getting ready to.
Interviewer:  And, say if there was something bad that you expected to happen like a child's walking along the top of a fence. You expect them to fall off, then someone comes in and tells you he's fallen of. You say, well I just?
863:  I knew it was gonna happen.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, well, he wasn't actually gonna get his little brother but he doubled up his fist and he, what, he was gonna hit him? #1 If he mean #
863:  #2 He wasn't. #
Interviewer:  he pretended, you'd say he?
863:  You're trying to say made out like but I would, yeah, I might've said that but I would probably have said pretended, I might have said made out.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Probably not. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 What #
863:  #2 But #
Interviewer:  about acting? Would?
863:  Acting as if though he was going to hit him? Probably not. I think that's a little bit awkward.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, this part of my head is called my?
863:  Your forehead.
Interviewer:  And, this is the?
863:  Your hair?
Interviewer:  And on a man? Hair here would be a?
863:  Beard.
Interviewer:  And this is my?
863:  Ear.
Interviewer:  Which one?
863:  Left ear.
Interviewer:  And this is the?
863:  Right ear.
Interviewer:  {NS} And, this whole thing?
863:  Your mouth.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  Your throat.
Interviewer:  Or the whole thing?
863:  Your neck?
Interviewer:  Any other names for throat?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  What about goozle?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear that?
863:  No. {NW}
Interviewer:  And these are the
863:  Your teeth.
Interviewer:  And one?
863:  Tooth.
Interviewer:  And the flesh around your teeth?
863:  Your lips? Or your gums.
Interviewer:  And, this is one?
863:  Hand.
Interviewer:  Two.
863:  Hands.
Interviewer:  And this is the?
863:  Palm of your hand.
Interviewer:  And one?
863:  Fist.
Interviewer:  Two.
863:  Two fists.
Interviewer:  And, a place where the bones come together?
863:  Joints.
Interviewer:  And on a man, this part of his body is?
863:  Chest.
Interviewer:  And these are the?
863:  Shoulders.
Interviewer:  And this is my?
863:  Knee. Or your leg.
Interviewer:  One.
863:  Foot.
Interviewer:  Two.
863:  Feet.
Interviewer:  And, say if I get down in this position
863:  You're kneeling. Or you're squatting.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Any other ways of saying that besides squatting?
863:  {NW} Knee bend. {NW} Uh.
Interviewer:  Do you ever h-
863:  Squat is what I would use.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear people say, you're down on you're haunches or hunkers?
863:  Hunkered down? {NW} Yes, but I always think of that as a, something more Western {NW} and, or, or sometimes, perhaps, even more Indian people who use that as a regular
Interviewer:  #1 {NW} #
863:  #2 posture. #
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, uh, when I do it I'm just squatting down and it's something temporary you know, to pick up something, to weed, to do something.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Hunkering down, sort of gives me the impression, and I think it's because it's mostly something I've read that But you're down there and that's the way you are going to stay while you're eating or you're doing something, that's
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That's a normal position, for instance, like sitting down would be for me.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I don't know if that's a correct impression or not but that's the one I have.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, this sens-
863:  But I wouldn't use it, I wouldn't
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 say # hunker down unless I were trying to write something, um, if I were writing a short story about a cowboy or an Indian I might use
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 it. # Only because I think of it in that context.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. This sensitive bone here?
863:  Shin?
Interviewer:  And, say if someone had been sick for a while, you'd say, well he's up and about now but he still looks a bit?
863:  Peaked.
Interviewer:  And someone who's in good shape, you'd say he's big and?
863:  Strong.
Interviewer:  What if he's getting a little bit overweight? You'd say he's?
863:  Husky, probably.
Interviewer:  Okay. What about stout? Do you have
863:  Stout. But, you know, stout almost always goes with a woman and a girdle. {NS} Or a corset, you know, isn't that
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  funny. But I would think of a man as husky. And, yet, I would not say that a woman is husky.
Interviewer:  Do you ever use the word stout talking about butter that was turning #1 bad? #
863:  #2 No. #
Interviewer:  And, someone who's always smiling, doesn't lose his temper you'd say that he
863:  Even tempered.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Or if he's easy to get along with, you'd say he's? What kind of person?
863:  Oh, agreeable. Ah, easy-going.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And someone like a teenage boy who's just all arms and legs?
863:  Gangly.
Interviewer:  What if he's always stumbling and dropping things?
863:  Awkward, anyway, Uh. Maybe accident prone.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And a person who keeps on doing things that don't make any sense? You say, he's just a plain?
863:  Fool, probably, or a
Interviewer:  How's
863:  I don't know.
Interviewer:  How's the word fool sound to you? Is that? How insulting is that?
863:  Mildly, if any.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  because this is something you can say to someone if, uh, if you think what you are doing is foolish, uh, oh you're a fool to do that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  You know.
Interviewer:  And the person wouldn't really get?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, someone who has a lot of #1 money #
863:  #2 and if you # got really angry and told them they were a damned fool, they might. But
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Probably not. It's a, it's a mild word.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Or to me.
Interviewer:  Someone who has a lot of money but really hangs onto his money? Won't spend any of it, you'd call him a?
863:  Miser, perhaps.
Interviewer:  Any other
863:  Maybe even just a {X}.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. {NW} And, when you say that a person is common, what does that mean?
863:  Probably without any refinement or graces.
Interviewer:  How would you use it?
863:  I would use it derogatorily.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I would consider it if I said, oh, she's very common, I would mean that she really just didn't have any refinement, perhaps no education no, uh, graces, perhaps, not many morals.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Does it have a different meaning when you're talking about a girl being common? Than, you know, if you just
863:  Well, if you talk about the common man, you're talking in generalities and, uh, you're talking about the average man. If you say a girl is common, yes, that's different from saying he's a common man.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Does it have sort of a um, more referring to
863:  Morals, maybe?
Interviewer:  Yeah.
863:  I think that's part of it.
Interviewer:  And, say an older person, maybe in their eighties, still gets around real well
863:  Spry.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Active, also.
Interviewer:  And, say a child was saying, well I'm not gonna go upstairs in the dark, I'm?
863:  I'm afraid of the dark.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. You'd say, well, I don't see why she's afraid now, she
863:  Wasn't afraid yesterday? Or?
Interviewer:  Okay but using the expression, 'used to be'? You'd say she?
863:  Used to be afraid? Yes I'd say used to be.
Interviewer:  Or if it's the opposite of that? I don't see why she's afraid now, she?
863:  Never was before. I don't think I'd say didn't used to be, if that's what
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  That's, I've heard this but I don't think I'd say it now. I do say used to be but wouldn't say didn't used to be.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh, I don't know why I would make that distinction but I think used to be is something that you pick up Uh, you know, you used to say that she used to live next door to me and #1 we used to #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  be good friends.
Interviewer:  But you wouldn't say
863:  But I wouldn't say we used to be good friends. I'd say we were never good friends.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You see? I don't know why but I don't use it in the negative when I do use it in the #1 positive #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  affirmative.
Interviewer:  And, say if your children were out later than usual, you'd say, well, I don't guess there's anything wrong but still I can't help feeling a little?
863:  Worried.
Interviewer:  Or a little?
863:  Apprehensive. Scared.
Interviewer:  Or you wouldn't feel #1 easy about it. #
863:  #2 Frightened. # Yeah, I'm not easy, I'm uneasy.
Interviewer:  And, someone else would say, well, they'll be home alright, just don't?
863:  Fret.
Interviewer:  Or don't?
863:  Don't worry.
Interviewer:  And someone who leaves a lot of money on the table and goes outside and doesn't even bother to lock the door. You'd say, he's mighty? What, with his money?
863:  Careless. {NS}
Interviewer:  Huh? {NS}
863:  Careless.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, there's nothing really wrong with Aunt Lizzie, but sometimes she acts kind of?
863:  Strange.
Interviewer:  Any other #1 expressions? #
863:  #2 Oh yes. # {NW} Depends on who Aunt Lizzie is. I guess just strange would be
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear people say queer or queer?
863:  Queer yes, but uh, queer, really, uh, has a meaning to me that, um, that they're really a little bit beyond the normal pale. And uh, I probably wouldn't say this about Aunt Lizzie unless Aunt Lizzie were really very strange indeed. {NW} Uh, I hate the words too, they are using them all now for, for homosexual or something. I hate the use of the word gay for that because that was such a happy word. But I think I probably wouldn't say it, course nowadays, under the influence of my children, I might say they were weird.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  Does
863:  But I think I would've said strange but I've heard people say queer and of course there's the good ol' thing about the two old sisters who were quakers and one said, sister I think all the world is queer but thee and me and sometimes I think thee's a little queer too.
Interviewer:  {NW} Did
863:  But I wouldn't use it, probably.
Interviewer:  When did the word, queer, start being used to mean homosexual? Has it always had that meaning?
863:  Yes, we used to talk about queers {NW} along with pansies and fairies when I was, say, in high school and college.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Gay, of course, is the one that's only come to mean that, in what, about the last five years.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I'm having a terrible time expunging that delightful word from my {NW} {NW} from my vocabulary because it means like, our hearts were young and gay meaning happy and almost carefree?
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  {NW} Spoiling a perfectly delightful word like that, terrible. I like it better when they were queer.
Interviewer:  And, someone who makes up his own mind and then you can't argue with him? He's gonna do things
863:  Stubborn and hardheaded.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And someone that you can't joke with without him losing his temper. Someone who's just sensitive? You'd say that he's?
863:  Humorless? Serious?
Interviewer:  Or, say something
863:  Dull. {NW}
Interviewer:  If something had happened
863:  A square. #1 {NW} #
Interviewer:  #2 Uh-huh. # Something had happened to embarrass him you say, well, don't tease him about that subject, he's still a little bit?
863:  More sensitive.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But sensitive can mean good things too.
Interviewer:  Do you ever
863:  Sensitive can mean sensing other people's moods and, and understanding and that sort of thing. It can mean {NW} a real awareness of nature, not necessarily just being thin-skinned.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Thin-skinned is the kind of sensitive that that question would
Interviewer:  Do you ever use the terms touches or touchy or?
863:  Touchy, yes.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say
863:  Mostly saying, not so much that a person is touchy but that a subject is very touchy with them
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 you know. #
Interviewer:  {NS} And you'd say, well I was just kidding him, I didn't know he'd get so
863:  Upset.
Interviewer:  Or, all of a sudden, he got really?
863:  Angry?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And, if someone's about to lose their temper, you'd tell them, now just?
863:  Calm down.
Interviewer:  And, if you had been working very hard, you'd say you were very?
863:  Tired.
Interviewer:  Any other expressions?
863:  Worn out? Mostly tired.
Interviewer:  And, say if the person had been well and then, suddenly, you hear that they've got some disease, you'd say, well, yesterday they were fine, when was it that they?
863:  Discovered they were sick or?
Interviewer:  #1 Or? #
863:  #2 Became # ill or what have you.
Interviewer:  Or when was it that they, what, sick? When was it that they?
863:  Got sick.
Interviewer:  And, if a person went outside in bad weather and came in sneezing and everything, you'd say he?
863:  Catching a cold.
Interviewer:  Or if that had happened yesterday, he?
863:  Caught a cold?
Interviewer:  And, if he couldn't talk right, he sounded?
863:  Hoarse.
Interviewer:  And, {NS} if you do that you have #1 a? #
863:  #2 He # coughed.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  He had a cough, huh?
Interviewer:  And, is someone was, um shot and didn't recover, you'd say, well, the doctor did all he could but still the man
863:  Died.
Interviewer:  Any nicer ways of saying died?
863:  Oh yes, you can pass away. That's probably the most you can you say that we are so sorry you lost your dear one, that sort of thing. Passed away is probably the most common. Or the one I'd think of first.
Interviewer:  What about a crude or joking way of saying that?
863:  Um, kicked off, you mean, or kick
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 the bucket. # Yeah.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, he's been dead a week and nobody's figured out yet what he died?
863:  Of.
Interviewer:  And, a place where people are buried?
863:  Cemetery.
Interviewer:  Any other names for that?
863:  Graveyard.
Interviewer:  And, what they put the body in?
863:  Grave.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Casket.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm, any other names?
863:  Coffin.
Interviewer:  Which of those terms would you probably use? Is it cemetery or graveyard or?
863:  I think I would use them interchangeably and probably depending upon the, the uh, when you are actually talking about the funeral, itself, and you're thinking about the services and everything, casket is what you think of because I think that's what the funeral directors like to call it
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But coffin is an older term and, uh, and I think you would always refer to the, the pine box that people used to be laid in as a
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 coffin. # Whereas, the fancy things that come away now go along with their own #1 language #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  it's a casket but either one is, is very much interchangeable today.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And the ceremony is called the?
863:  The funeral services.
Interviewer:  And, if people
863:  Or the funeral.
Interviewer:  if people are dressed in black, you say that they're in?
863:  Mourning.
Interviewer:  And, {NS} say a bee stung me in my hand if it got bigger, you'd say my hand?
863:  Swelled.
Interviewer:  And it's still pretty badly?
863:  Swollen.
Interviewer:  And if a bee stings you, your hand will?
863:  Swell.
Interviewer:  And, a sore that comes to a head is called a?
863:  Pimple or boil.
Interviewer:  And, the stuff that drains out?
863:  Puss.
Interviewer:  And in a blister, the stuff that drains out?
863:  Oh, I don't know. Fluid. It's, uh, I really don't know.
Interviewer:  Just that clear liquid.
863:  Oh, I don't know, I really don't know that I've ever called it, my, my blister popped, you know, and uh,
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  it does come out but I don't know whether I have a term for it.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called humor or water?
863:  Probably water.
Interviewer:  And, someone who can't hear anything at all, you'd say that
863:  He's deaf.
Interviewer:  And if a man had been out working in the sun and he takes off his shirt and it's all wet, you'd say, look how much I
863:  Perspired or sweated. {NW} Man, he's probably sweated. {NW}
Interviewer:  If someone got shot or stabbed you'd say you have to get a doctor to look at the
863:  Wound.
Interviewer:  And if a wound doesn't heal back right, it gets sort of a skinless growth?
863:  You mean it's infected or?
Interviewer:  Well, something that's
863:  Gangrenous or something like
Interviewer:  No, it's gotta be cut out or burned out. If you had horses, um, I think a lot of times horses will get this on their leg or something.
863:  Sores, you're talking about.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear of some kind of flesh?
863:  Proud flesh.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What is that exactly?
863:  {NS} I think proud flesh is probably the, the, the place that dies that really isn't healing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And some of that time, that has to be removed and it may even be the same thing as gangrenous or something like that.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Again I, I'm not quite sure.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  It's an impression.
Interviewer:  And, and say if you had a cut on your finger, a brown liquid medicine that stings
863:  Iodine.
Interviewer:  And a real bitter medicine people used to take?
863:  Cast, nah, no not Castor oil they, they took, well they took sulfur and molasses What'd they take? Uh, Quinine, would be bitter.
Interviewer:  And say on an average sort of day if someone ask you how you're feeling you'd say
863:  Fine.
Interviewer:  And when you're getting older your joints start hurting
863:  You're arthritic?
Interviewer:  Or you call that what?
863:  Arthritis.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  The old term used to be lumbago and always the colored people that worked for you had the misery.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And misery was anything.
Interviewer:  {NW} Just any? Compl-
863:  I think mostly misery generally was with something like arthritis or neuritis or something like that.
Interviewer:  And, this is a disease that children use to get and die from They'd get a really bad sore throat Blisters inside their throat and they'd choke up.
863:  Diphtheria.
Interviewer:  And a disease where your skin and eyeballs turn yellow?
863:  Yellow fever?
Interviewer:  Or? It's
863:  Jaundice.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And when you have a pain down here and have to have an operation?
863:  Appendicitis.
Interviewer:  Any old fashioned names for that?
863:  For appendicitis? No I don't think so.
Interviewer:  And, something that you do every day if I ask you, do you do it often you'd say yes, I? #1 What? #
863:  #2 Yes. #
Interviewer:  All the time.
863:  I do it all the time.
Interviewer:  And, if you wanted to ask me whether he does that sort of thing, you'd ask me
863:  Does he do it, everyday?
Interviewer:  #1 And, #
863:  #2 I do it all the time. #
Interviewer:  I'd say I don't smoke but he
863:  Does.
Interviewer:  And, you'd said well I don't know if he did that or not but people
863:  Do.
Interviewer:  Or people? What, he did it? People.
863:  People Do what or I'm sorry, I'm, I'm not
Interviewer:  I don't know whether he did it but people
863:  Do it.
Interviewer:  Or they what he
863:  Do not {X}
Interviewer:  You say people says he
863:  People say he did it. Okay, okay. {NS}
Interviewer:  And, If I ask you if you know a person you might say, oh no I don't know him but I?
863:  But I know people that do know him and I know of him? Okay.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say I heard tell of him?
863:  Only jokingly. Again, like the use of ain't, when I when I know I mean I can say, oh I heard tell so and so is doing something but I'm, I'm being thought of cute when I
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 do it. # but I know that people do say it I mean you pick it up but it isn't something that I use unless I'm you know being corny.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, Say if someone ate something that didn't agree with them and it came back up, you'd say he had to
863:  Threw up.
Interviewer:  Um, any other ways of saying threw up?
863:  Yeah, vomited. Tossed his cookies.
Interviewer:  Which sounds the best and which sounds the
863:  Threw up sounds best to me. {NW}
Interviewer:  What about a real crude way of saying that?
863:  Um, a real crude way, you mean besides tossed his cookies? I don't, I don't know
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear puke or
863:  Oh yeah, I've heard puke.
Interviewer:  How does that sound to you?
863:  Crude. {NW} Just exactly as you said.
Interviewer:  And, if a person threw up, you'd say he was sick?
863:  With his stomach.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Stick it, sick to his stomach.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  And some people say sick too but I think I'd say sick at his stomach but I really I really think I'd just say he was nauseated so but I could say sick at his stomach. It would be at instead of
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 to though. #
Interviewer:  And, How would you use the words up or down or over, talking about location? Like you'd say I saw him, what? Houston last week, I saw him?
863:  I saw him in Houston last week, I might say I went over to Houston last week.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Uh,
Interviewer:  Why would you say over?
863:  Well, I think I would say it because I have a very good sense of direction and Houston is nearly on an east/west axis.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  I think I would go up to Nacodoches and over to Houston and down to Sabine Pass. Which is out here you, you understand?
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And,
863:  But with me it's strictly a directional thing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I'm thinking of up and down is north and east and south and west.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say if a boy kept on going over to the same girl's house and like he was seriously interested in her? You'd say that he was?
863:  Probably, in the old days we used to say courting. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 Do you hear that nowadays? #
863:  #2 But uh, # Most everybody is going steady or something like that. Courting is not very commonly used. More out in the country
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You might still get courting up in, say, Nacodoches and not so much in Beaumont.
Interviewer:  And, he would be called her?
863:  Steady. Boyfriend.
Interviewer:  And she would be his?
863:  Girlfriend.
Interviewer:  And, if a boy comes home with lipstick on its collar, his little brother would say he had been?
863:  Oh goodness. Nowadays, they wouldn't say the same thing, we used to say necking pecking. Smooching. I don't know what they say.
Interviewer:  And,
863:  They've got new terms. Making out and a whole bunch of other things that I
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  Making out is something a little bit further along the line.
Interviewer:  When a girl stops letting the boy come over to see her you'd say that she?
863:  They've broken up?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And he asks her to marry him but she?
863:  Turned him down.
Interviewer:  And they were engaged and all of a sudden she?
863:  Broke the engagement.
Interviewer:  Any other expressions?
863:  No, mostly broken engagement, called it off.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear jilted him or #1 Oh yes #
863:  #2 gave him # jilted.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Oh yes, jilted.
Interviewer:  When would jilted be used?
863:  Uh, Well, That would probably be if suddenly without any cause she just, suddenly said jilted him or went off with a jilted usually means that she found someone else.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  So that you jilt someone for someone else. Just deciding that this is a mistake
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  is breaking it off and that's not the same thing as jilting. Jilting, usually, has this sort of uh, She's got to have been a little bit ugly to him or he's
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  been a little ugly to her he's something that that everybody else recognizes as not being quite fair are
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  quite nice, you know, it has a connotation of maybe a little hard-heartedness or, or or even the suddenness.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Does it could be at any stage, though, it could be #1 you know #
863:  #2 not after # marriage. {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 Well, #
863:  #2 No. # {NW}
Interviewer:  #1 {X} #
863:  #2 {X} #
Interviewer:  #1 Be left #
863:  #2 Or # Just dating or left at the altar.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And, if she didn't turn him down you'd say they went ahead and got?
863:  Married. Any joking ways of saying that? Hitched.
Interviewer:  And, at a wedding the boy that stands up with the groom?
863:  The best man.
Interviewer:  And the woman stands up with the bride?
863:  Maid of honor. Possibly, matron of honor.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What about the the other women?
863:  They're attendants or bridesmaids.
Interviewer:  And
863:  Groomsmen.
Interviewer:  A long time ago if, um, people in the community would get married other people would come by their house at night and make a lot of noise maybe beat on pans or
863:  I've never, ever seen it done, it was evidently an old custom. It was called a chivaree.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  It was not one of my terms, I know it {NW} mostly from the movies
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Really and, and reading some about it but it was not within my experience.
Interviewer:  You think it was done in this area?
863:  Yes. Probably, in the country in older times.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But not I don't even know, I think maybe it was possibly more frontier sort of thing and it probably was done when this was a frontier.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But after it, it was no longer frontier and it had grown up I don't think You still get a little hazing from now and again if they know where you are the first night.
Interviewer:  And, say there was trouble at a party, you'd say the police came and they didn't arrest just one or two of them they arrested the?
863:  The whole bunch?
Interviewer:  Any other terms besides bunch?
863:  Probably. The whole group, the whole bunch. We used the word passel yesterday but I don't believe I would've used it. It wouldn't occur to me.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I think I'd just say the whole bunch. {NS}
Interviewer:  And, when young people go out in the evening and move around on the floor to music?
863:  They're dancing.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Any special names for dance that you'd have at home?
863:  'Course it depends on the dancing you're doing, we used to jitterbug or, uh, cut a rug in the old days but, um,
Interviewer:  #1 Where do you cut a rug? #
863:  #2 Or no # That was just an old term we used to have.
Interviewer:  Just referring to dancing?
863:  Just referring to dancing.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  But generally it was vigorous dancing.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  You know, like he could really cut a rug and that was just a way of saying it, um
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. #1 Say, #
863:  #2 It's a # slang term.
Interviewer:  If children get out of school at four o'clock, you'd say at four o'clock school?
863:  Let out.
Interviewer:  And, after vacation children would ask, when does school?
863:  Take up. {NS}
Interviewer:  And, if a boy left home to go to school and didn't show up at school that day you'd say he?
863:  Playing hooky.
Interviewer:  And, you go to school to get a?
863:  Education.
Interviewer:  And after high school you go on to?
863:  College.
Interviewer:  And after kindergarten you go into the?
863:  First grade. {NS}
Interviewer:  And, years ago children sat on benches at school, now they sit at?
863:  Desks.
Interviewer:  And each child has his own?
863:  Desk.
Interviewer:  And if you wanted to check out a book you'd go to the?
863:  Library.
Interviewer:  And to mail a package?
863:  To the post office.
Interviewer:  And you'd stay overnight in a strange town at a?
863:  A motel or hotel.
Interviewer:  And you'd see a play or a movie at a?
863:  Theater.
Interviewer:  And if you had to have an operation you'd go into the?
863:  Hospital.
Interviewer:  And the woman that'd, that would look after you?
863:  Would be a nurse.
Interviewer:  And you'd catch train at the?
863:  The depot.
Interviewer:  Or you could
863:  Or the train station, the railroad station depending really a lot on the, on the size of the thing. We always used to refer to the railroad station, and the depot, and we meaning the same place but sometimes separate places the, the smaller railroad station in town, there were three,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  We nearly always called it the depot and we, then we would refer to the one which was the main one, the Southern Pacific was the railroad station but they also called it the Southern Pacific depot so it could be either one.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say, if you had a
863:  But I don't think I would've called Grand Central Station a depot. I'll put it that way, just me.
Interviewer:  And, say, if you had a piece of furniture that didn't fit exactly in the corner and maybe you have it so that there's a, diagonally so there's this space the
863:  Catty-cornered.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Catty-cornered.
Interviewer:  How do you use catty-cornered?
863:  As being across the corner. Also, uh, the person who lives on the block diagonally across me when there's a four way crossing.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 They was # Catty-cornered from me.
Interviewer:  And, before they had buses in town they used to have?
863:  Street cars.
Interviewer:  And you'd tell the bus driver, this next corner is where I?
863:  Get off.
Interviewer:  And, in this county, Beaumont is the?
863:  County seat.
Interviewer:  And if you were a postmaster you'd be working for the?
863:  Government.
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Government. {NW}
Interviewer:  And, the police in town are supposed to maintain?
863:  Order. Law.
Interviewer:  What, talking about both of those together?
863:  Law and order would law would come first, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, before they had the electric chair, murderers were?
863:  Hung.
Interviewer:  You say the man went out and?
863:  Hanged himself.
Interviewer:  And, the fight between the North and the South was called the?
863:  The Civil War. A lot of places they always called it The War Between the States but I think it's just the Civil War.
Interviewer:  You don't make any distinction between those two terms?
863:  And I hear it called the late unpleasantness and so forth
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  No, I don't make any distinction between the terms at all.
Interviewer:  Who would call it the late unpleasantness?
863:  Hmm?
Interviewer:  Is that just a sort of a joking?
863:  I think it's something that, uh, yes I think it's partially a joke and usually a fairly literary one, you know, among those who write, but but, uh, it's the Civil War, as far as I'm concerned.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Say, if someone ask you to go with them somewhere and you're not sure you want to, you'd say I don't know?
863:  I don't know if I want to go or not.
Interviewer:  And if you want someone to go with you, you'd say well I won't go?
863:  Unless you go.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say I had a choice of two things, and I was going to do this but then I decided I'd do that
863:  Instead.
Interviewer:  And, one of the largest,um, protestant churches or protestant denominations in the south would be?
863:  Baptist.
Interviewer:  And if two people become members, you'd say they?
863:  They're Baptists.
Interviewer:  But last week they? What the church?
863:  Joined.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And you go to church to pray to the?
863:  God.
Interviewer:  And the preacher preaches a?
863:  Sermon.
Interviewer:  And the choir and the organist provide the?
863:  Music.
Interviewer:  And if you really like the music, you'd say the music was just?
863:  Beautiful.
Interviewer:  And, say, if you had to change a flat tire on the way to church on Sunday, you'd say, well, church will be over?
863:  Before I get there.
Interviewer:  And the enemy of God is called a?
863:  Satan.
Interviewer:  Or the?
863:  The Devil, uh-huh.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Oh yes, Lucifer, Beelzebub, uh, there's some more, Old Scratch.
Interviewer:  What did you tell children was gonna come get them? If they didn't behave?
863:  Well, I wouldn't do it but I presume it would be the devil. The devil's gonna get you if you don't watch out.
Interviewer:  What about the Boooger man?
863:  Oh, I've heard Booger man but we never we never used it.
Interviewer:  Is that the same as the Devil?
863:  Not necessarily.
Interviewer:  What
863:  Could have been any bad, scary man
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  That could come and get you.
Interviewer:  And what did people think they'd see around a graveyard at night?
863:  Ghosts,
Interviewer:  And a house that people are scared to go in?
863:  Haunted.
Interviewer:  And, you'd tell someone, you better put a sweater on, it's getting?
863:  Cool.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Cooler or cold.
Interviewer:  Or it's not really cold but it's getting?
863:  Cooler.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Chilly.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, well I'll go with you if you really want me to but I'd?
863:  Prefer not to.
Interviewer:  I'd
863:  Or I'd rather not to. I'd rather not.
Interviewer:  And, say, if you hadn't seen a good friend of yours in a longtime when you saw ''em you might say I'm?
863:  So glad to see you.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Do you ever say proud to see you?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say,um,
863:  And I haven't said I'm proud to meet anyone or anything like that except when I'm writing it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  That way but, uh, I know that this is said so often, I've heard it and twice when a new secretary came to apply for a job for my father, he said, well, he said I got a nice girl today but she says, oh Mr. McFadden, I'm so proud to meet you and but she's been a wonderful secretary and the same thing happened when I went to meet one of my children's English teachers and she said I'm so proud to make your acquaintance and I nearly died.
Interviewer:  Did you associate that with being uneducated or country?
863:  Country. We have a saying here that all of the people who grew up in Beaumont and went to college go to teach in Houston and Dallas and Austin and all the people who grew up in Buna and Kirbyville
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  and Selsby come to Beaumont to teach.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And it's true.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Say if, um, What about this big, thicket, country around here, is that? Is that very close to here?
863:  Oh yes, if you're in the big thicket when you're up here about ten miles.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. What's that area like?
863:  Well, it's a good country area, it's slowly becoming a bedroom area for Beaumont. People are going up there and building homes and they commute every day and work here but it has been a good country area. The big thicket was a lot larger than it is now and it was made up of people, who were, were, sort of died in the will country people, and a lot of them are what we sort of call rednecks. They were people whose family have lived there for generations and began or they, they moved in when it was still part of the, uh, no man's land. There was a time when, uh, between Texas and, rather, between the Spanish and the Americans after they had bought Louisiana this, there was a border dispute so there was sort of a no man's land in there that neither one really owned, both sort of claimed, and a lot of people came in and lived in that just beyond the border, #1 and just #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  beyond the reach of authorities. One or two jumps ahead of the sheriff as we say #1 now. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  And these people were very independent, and they didn't like authority and they lived mostly by hunting and fishing maybe raising a little garden, and, uh, before a REA program without any of what we now call the necessities of life. And they didn't want anyone bothering them and they don't like you up there and they don't like summer people up there, and they burn homes, and they steal, and they, they're very independent and we have a very bad reputation up there for killing lawmen. Especially, uh, the people who come from Parks and Wildlife and try to
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  keep them from shooting the deer.
Interviewer:  Isn't that a, a national, um?
863:  Well, not yet but very soon. They passed the bill and the President signed it but now they have to come in and they have to buy the land so it will be a national preserve.
Interviewer:  And the people there are really?
863:  A lot of them are quite opposed to it some are not. And some of them don't understand it. They have been they, you know, it's very easy to whip people up and bring their suspicions up,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I was talking to one of proponents, proponents of the bill, and I said why don't you go to the courthouse, and put up a map saying exactly what you're going to take and you're not going to take because I said a lot of these people who are up there opposing you tooth and nail, good phrase,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Aren't even going to be included in this but they've been told their homes are going to be taken. Well, the whole problem is that nowhere have they ever defined exactly what they are going to take in are not going to take and so when they say what are you going to take, they say, well, we can't tell you exactly, and of course they're #1 suspicious #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  that means they're really going to take me. They're not going to say they're going to but they are, you know, {NS} people are very suspicious when it comes to the government
Interviewer:  Is that, so that's a pretty old settlement around in the big thicket? It's been
863:  Some of the settlements are old and some aren't, a lot of what they're planning to take is owned by the large lumber companies,
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Who do not want them to take it because that's the way they make their living is cutting the timber. And, uh, and I think some of the agitation has been done. I think they've talked on both sides of their mouth out #1 there. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  They've talked on one side of the government, oh yes, you're going to pay us, and we think a certain amount of this is good, and on the other side they're out there rousing up the
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  People #1 don't oppose it. #
Interviewer:  #2 What are some, # What are some of the older settlements in there?
863:  In there? Saratoga and Batson, the Batson prairie out there is quite an old uh, settlement. Early settlers were out there and, uh, let's see, it starts really East of, uh, I mean west of Kountze in that area but Saratoga and Batson. Honey Allen, uh, Sour Lake all of those have been there a long time. And they've had settlers that have been there many generations, and of course they don't want their homes taken.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Or their land either.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And I know there's
863:  And I have a certain amount of sympathy with them, I really do. Uh, I think that it can be managed if it could be done on an individual basis where if you take someone's land you not only pay ''em a good market value but let them live there as long as they want to. Most of these people, who want to keep it, and want to leave it to their children, are dreaming their children are going to go live in the city. This is happening all over, you know, the younger people move into the city, very few of the stay on the farm, #1 stay in the country. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  And I think that the government could keep it, and keep it from being timbered, keep it from being, uh, you know, cut over and damaged and still let the people live on it and give them a lifetime right to live on it but not a right to ever destroy #1 or change. #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. # They wouldn't be allowed to hunt or anything there?
863:  {NW} I suspect that would be a very ticklish point to decide with those people who are used to hunting all those years. But I, but they are not the ones who do the most damage the ones that go out and hunt for pleasure and really aren't interested in that deer for meat
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  are the ones who do more damage and they say this and I, I really agree with them
Interviewer:  Do people who come up from Beaumont
863:  {NW}
Interviewer:  to
863:  People will go out and hunt
Interviewer:  season
863:  And the thing about it is that I think that they would never shoot out all the deer and that you could always restock.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Or call the moratorium one year. But I don't think the people who live there are the ones who are depleting the deer. I think it's the hunters that go in.
Interviewer:  {X} Shoot each other too? {NW}
863:  They do that too.
Interviewer:  Um, say, if someone intensely disliked to go someplace you'd say he?
863:  Hates to go there, he
Interviewer:  Do you ever say he plumb hated it or?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  #1 Purely hated it. #
863:  #2 Plumb wouldn't # Plumb and purely, I, I really don't think I'd use. They're good country terms.
Interviewer:  And, you say it wasn't just a little cold this morning it was?
863:  Really cold.
Interviewer:  And, say, if a man was hammering and he hit his thumb what exclamations might he have?
863:  Beside ouch? Well any of the expletives
Interviewer:  What about say what exclamations might you have say, if someone told you something that surprised you?
863:  Oh, I'd probably say you're kidding!
Interviewer:  Do you ever say land sakes or anything like that?
863:  No. Those are good country terms.
Interviewer:  What about if you are disgusted with yourself you had done something stupid?
863:  Oh, I could kill myself or, oh, I'm so disgusted with myself I'm furious with myself or that is the dumbest thing I've ever done.
Interviewer:  #1 Do you ever say #
863:  #2 How could I # be so stupid?
Interviewer:  say shucks or anything like that?
863:  Might. But probably not Oh, occasionally.
Interviewer:  How would you use
863:  But, that would, again, probably be more in a joking way. Oh, shucks, you don't really want to do or you don't really mean
Interviewer:  #1 Uh-huh. #
863:  #2 you know. #
Interviewer:  And someone said something you kind of resented them saying it, you might say well, the very?
863:  The very idea of it.
Interviewer:  And, if a friend of yours says good morning, what might you ask them then? About their health, you'd say?
863:  How are you, is probably what I'd say.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. What about when you introduce to a stranger?
863:  Hello, how are you?
Interviewer:  And, if some people were leaving your house after a visit you'd say well I hope y'all come back?
863:  Soon.
Interviewer:  Or I hope I see you?
863:  Hope I see you soon.
Interviewer:  Or a
863:  Or anytime, you know, come back soon.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Soon, mostly.
Interviewer:  And how would you greet someone around December twenty fifth?
863:  Merry Christmas.
Interviewer:  And on the first?
863:  Seasons' greetings.
Interviewer:  The first?
863:  A Happy New Year.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Do you ever hear people say a Christmas gift to each other?
863:  Christmas gift was something that was supposed to have been said every morning, the first person to greet you was supposed to say Christmas gift and this was particularly true of negroes who worked for you. They'd run in and wake you up and say Christmas gift, Christmas gift.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But it isn't anything that we ever said to each other. It was nothing I say but I know, I've heard it said.
Interviewer:  Is it was done in your household?
863:  No. No, I don't think anyone ever ran around to us but, but I know that it has been done.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  Uh, I've seen other households where it's done.
Interviewer:  When the person says Christmas gift are you supposed to give them something then?
863:  I suspect that since the connotation or the, the impression that I have of it is that this was what and this is a word I hadn't thought until just this very minute when you asked me what I called negroes. They were called darkies, too.
Interviewer:  {NW}
863:  And I was going to say just now this is what darkies did probably hoping they'd get Christmas gifts.
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 Waking you up # Christmas gift, Christmas gift.
Interviewer:  And, the biggest city in the country is in?
863:  New York.
Interviewer:  And Annapolis is the capital of?
863:  Maryland.
Interviewer:  And the biggest city there?
863:  Baltimore.
Interviewer:  And Richmond's the capital of?
863:  Virginia.
Interviewer:  And Boston?
863:  Massachusetts?
Interviewer:  And the states from to Connecticut are called the?
863:  From Maine, oh the New England states.
Interviewer:  What are some of the states in the south?
863:  Georgia, North and South Carolina, Virginia, Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Texas.
Interviewer:  And, the state above Arkansas?
863:  Louisiana, did I mention Louisiana?
Interviewer:  Okay, the state
863:  Above Arkansas, what's it? Kansas?
Interviewer:  Or starts with an m?
863:  Oh, Missouri.
Interviewer:  And the biggest city there?
863:  Probably St. Louis.
Interviewer:  And, Tulsa is in?
863:  Oklahoma.
Interviewer:  And, the Bluegrass State?
863:  Kentucky.
Interviewer:  And the biggest city there?
863:  Lexington
Interviewer:  Or another one?
863:  Louisville.
Interviewer:  And the capital of the United States?
863:  You mean Washington D.C.? And, the biggest city in Illinois? Chicago.
Interviewer:  And what are some of the cities, um, in Alabama?
863:  Birmingham. Um, Oh, for goodness sake, I can't everything I can think is probably in Mississippi. {NW] Birmingham, may Mobile.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. What about the capitol?
863:  Oh, I can't think what the capital of Alabama is?
Interviewer:  What was the name of that county in Tennessee where?
863:  Montgomery. Oh, Montgomery, Alabama, of course.
Interviewer:  And, the old city in, um, South Carolina? Old historical city?
863:  Savannah. Charleston. Charleston. Savannah is in Georgia, Charleston is in South Carolina.
Interviewer:  And the city up in the mountains in North Carolina?
863:  Up in the mountains. North Carolina. Asheville?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. What are some of the cities in Tennessee?.
863:  Well, Knoxville, course M-, Memphis, beside uh, Nashville.
Interviewer:  And Lookout Mountain's at?
863:  Chattanooga.
Interviewer:  And, some of the cities in Georgia? Atlanta. Augusta. Milledgeville. {NW}
863:  #1 You don't know, think I know about Millidgeville. #
Interviewer:  #2 What about #
863:  Columbia.
Interviewer:  #1 What about #
863:  #2 Or # Columbus it is. Columbus, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  The city in the middle of Georgia? Just south of Atlanta?
863:  Just south of Atlanta?
Interviewer:  Starts with an M?
863:  Macon.
Interviewer:  And, the biggest city in southern Ohio?
863:  Not Cairo or something like that, what's in Southern Ohio? Cincinnati.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And some of the cities in Louisiana?
863:  Oh, Baton Rouge, New Orleans, Lake Charles, Alexandria.
Interviewer:  And, Belfast is in?
863:  Ireland. {NW}
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  {NW} Ireland, but I don't know where it is in the United States.
Interviewer:  And, well that's, that's where I meant, the country, um, And Paris is in?
863:  France. Also Texas.
Interviewer:  {NW} Moscow is in?
863:  U.S.S.R. or Russia.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say I have to go downtown to do some?
863:  Shopping.
Interviewer:  And say, if you bought something, you'd say the storekeeper took out a piece of paper and?
863:  Wrapped it?
Interviewer:  And when I got home I?
863:  Opened it.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Unwrapped it.
Interviewer:  And if you had to sell something for two dollars that you'd paid three dollars for, you'd be selling it?
863:  At a loss.
Interviewer:  And if you like something but don't have enough money for it you'd say, well, I like it but it?
863:  Is too expensive.
Interviewer:  Or it? What too much?
863:  Cost too much.
Interviewer:  And, on the first of the month your bill is?
863:  Paid.
Interviewer:  Or it's time to pay it, it's?
863:  Time to pat it, my bill is due.
Interviewer:  And, if you belong to a club you have to pay your?
863:  Dues.
Interviewer:  And if you don't have any money you could go to the bank and try to?
863:  Borrow some.
Interviewer:  And you say, in the thirties money was?
863:  Scarce.
Interviewer:  And some places, if you buy something or pay your bill from storekeepers will give you a little present a little extra, and they'll call that?
863:  Probably, a lagniappe.
Interviewer:  Was that term used around here?
863:  Yes, I think it was, I've I've heard lagniappe. I guess, all my life but you know it is a French term, and we do have a lot of French and I don't know whether #1 that's #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  just something that was here or just that Uh, I just have heard lagniappe.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Be about like Bayou, or?
863:  Yeah, I think that there are some things that, uh, that I don't know whether they're from the Acadian French
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  influence or whether it was just, uh, I really don't know why I have always heard it but I know I've had a lagniappe. And I don't remember when I learned it.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. Have you ever heard of, um, pea lawn?
863:  #1 No. #
Interviewer:  #2 Meaning the same thing. # And, what does a baby do before it is able to walk?
863:  Crawl.
Interviewer:  And, say if you were tired you might say I think I'll go over to the sofa and?
863:  Take a nap.
Interviewer:  Or, what, down?
863:  Lay down.
Interviewer:  And you say, he was really sick he couldn't even sit up all morning, he would just? What, bed, he just?
863:  He just lay in bed.
Interviewer:  And, talking about something that you saw in your sleep, you'd say this is what I?
863:  Dreamed.
Interviewer:  And often when I go to sleep I?
863:  I dream.
Interviewer:  But, I can't always remember what I have?
863:  Dreamed.
Interviewer:  I dreamed I was falling but just when I about to hit the ground I
863:  Woke up.
Interviewer:  And, if you bring your foot down heavy on the floor?
863:  You stomp. You stamp or stomp.
Interviewer:  #1 Which would you call it? #
863:  #2 {NW} # Stamp is what we, you oughta say but stomp is just a, I don't know it's just a, a sort of a word you use quickly and, and you know it's wrong you don't care.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. And you'd say she walked up to the altar and she? What down?
863:  Knelt down.
Interviewer:  And, if you saw a friend of yours walking home alone and you had your car, you'd say can I?
863:  Give you a lift.
Interviewer:  Or can I?
863:  Or give you a ride.
Interviewer:  #1 What #
863:  #2 Pick you up. #
Interviewer:  What you home tonight?
863:  Drive you home.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say carry you or take you home?
863:  No, I've heard carry a lot but, uh, it's just not one of the things I happen to use. It's a little country.
Interviewer:  And to get something to come towards you, you take hold of it and?
863:  Pull it.
Interviewer:  And the other way?
863:  Push.
Interviewer:  And if you had a sack of groceries and didn't have your car, you'd say you picked it up and?
863:  Carried it.
Interviewer:  Any other expressions?
863:  No. I mean, I mean I've heard tote and this sort of thing but it wouldn't be tote, really, is what I think colored people usually use.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And I've noticed it's on of the little drive-ins will be pick and tote and that sort of thing but it wouldn't be anything I'd use.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. Do you ever, what would you if it was something that was very, well, maybe not so much heavy but very bulky to hold on to and very inconvenient to carry? You'd say I had to? What, that heavy suitcase, I had to?
863:  Might have had to drag it, or, or struggle, I don't
Interviewer:  Do you ever say lug it or pack it?
863:  Well, I might but I mean they've, they're terms familiar with but, uh, I might use it.
Interviewer:  Which would you?
863:  Probably, If I had a suitcase I had to lug that heavy suitcase around I might, I might use that.
Interviewer:  And you'd tell a child, now that stove is very hot, so?
863:  Don't touch it.
Interviewer:  And if you needed a hammer you'd tell someone and go?
863:  Get me my hammer.
Interviewer:  And, A game that children play where one child will be it and the others will hide?
863:  Hide and seek.
Interviewer:  And, the tree you can touch and be safe?
863:  Home base.
Interviewer:  And, In football, you run toward the?
863:  Goal.
Interviewer:  And, if you were about to punish a child, he might ask you not to punish him just give me one more?
863:  Chance.
Interviewer:  And, if we were planning to meet somewhere I'd say, well, if I get there first I'll?
863:  Wait for you.
Interviewer:  And, someone who always catches on to a joke, he's got a good sense of?
863:  Humor.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, well, we've got termites now but I sure the exterminating company will?
863:  Get rid of them.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say get shed of them?
863:  No.
Interviewer:  And, say if a child left a pencil on the desk and came back and didn't find it there she'd say, I bet somebody?
863:  Took it.
Interviewer:  Anything else you'd say?
863:  Stole it.
Interviewer:  And if you wanted to brighten up your room for a party and you had a lot of things growing out in your yard, you'd go out and?
863:  Pick some flowers.
Interviewer:  And, {NS} something that a child plays with you'd call a?
863:  Toy.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Well, whatever the toy was, a ball, plaything.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear it called a play pretty?
863:  Yes, but it isn't anything that, uh, I would use.
Interviewer:  How did you hear that used?
863:  Babysitter.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh. She'd call it a?
863:  Uh-huh, she used to call my children's toys play pretties.
Interviewer:  Would
863:  Mm-hmm. That's where I, that's the only thing, only place I think I've ever heard it.
Interviewer:  Would? Do you associate play pretties as g just any kind of toy or toy for a small child?
863:  Probably a toy for a small child.
Interviewer:  And, if a child learned something new and you wanted to know where he learned it, you'd ask him, who?
863:  Who taught you that?
Interviewer:  And you'd say I have just, what, him a letter?
863:  Written him a letter.
Interviewer:  And yesterday he?
863:  Wrote me.
Interviewer:  And tomorrow I'll?
863:  Write him.
Interviewer:  And you say I wrote it and it was time I was getting a?
863:  A letter back.
Interviewer:  Or an?
863:  Answer.
Interviewer:  And you put the letter in the envelope then you take your pen and you?
863:  Address it.
Interviewer:  And you'd say well I was going to write him but I didn't know his?
863:  Address.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear an old-fashioned name an old-fashioned way of saying address? A letter? Do you ever hear?
863:  Not that I recall. {NS}
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, those little boys get mad and {NS}
863:  Fight?
Interviewer:  Huh?
863:  Fight.
Interviewer:  And yesterday they?
863:  Fought.
Interviewer:  And ever since they were small they have?
863:  Been fighting.
Interviewer:  Or they have?
863:  Or they have fought.
Interviewer:  And, say if, um, I had a question, you might say well I don't know the answer to your question you better go? What, somebody else?
863:  Ask someone else.
Interviewer:  So you'd say, so then I went and when?
863:  And I asked someone else.
Interviewer:  And you'd say you're the second person who's?
863:  Asked me.
Interviewer:  And, if it's cold enough to kill the tomatoes and flowers you'd say, last tight we had a?
863:  Freeze.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  #1 Might #
Interviewer:  #2 Any #
863:  just a frost.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say it was so cold last night that the pipes?
863:  Froze.
Interviewer:  And?
863:  Expanded. They burst.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, I was going to wrap them but the pipes had already?
863:  Burst.
Interviewer:  Because the water had?
863:  Frozen.
Interviewer:  And if it gets much colder the pipes will?
863:  Freeze.
Interviewer:  And?
863:  Burst.
Interviewer:  And if there is just a thin coating of ice on the lake, you'd say last night the lake?
863:  Well, froze over, or
Interviewer:  Do you ever say it's skimmed over or scaled over?
863:  No but then you realize that hardly ever happens around here sometimes I'll say there's a thin crust for instance on my uh, birdbath out there
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But you realize how little we get, and we don't, our lakes don't freeze over down here.
Interviewer:  {NW} And, If you had to get up and start work before the sun was shining you'd say we had to work before?
863:  Before dark or before light.
Interviewer:  Or before?
863:  Before sun up.
Interviewer:  And we worked until?
863:  Sundown.
Interviewer:  And you say
863:  Or dark.
Interviewer:  This morning I saw the sun.
863:  Rise.
Interviewer:  At six o'clock this morning the sun?
863:  Rose.
Interviewer:  Or the sun is already?
863:  Has already risen.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, all night long the wind?
863:  Blew
Interviewer:  And the wind has?
863:  Blown.
Interviewer:  And the wind started to?
863:  Blowing. Or started to blow.
Interviewer:  And if the wind's from this direction you say that it's?
863:  From the North.
Interviewer:  And a wind
863:  That's a North wind, mm-hmm.
Interviewer:  Half way between North and East would be a?
863:  Northeast wind.
Interviewer:  And North and West?
863:  Northwest.
Interviewer:  And West and South?
863:  Southwest.
Interviewer:  And East and South?
863:  Southeast.
Interviewer:  And if the wind had been {X}, just, gradually getting stronger, you'd say it was?
863:  If I were out sailing I'd say it was freshening.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  But here I don't think I would say that, it's coming up here.
Interviewer:  Uh-huh.
863:  The wind is coming up.
Interviewer:  Why would you have a distinction?
863:  #1 Or rising? #
Interviewer:  #2 Is freshening sort of a #
863:  Well I think it's
Interviewer:  A nautical term?
863:  I think it's a, a term that I that I associate with, uh, nautical terms. I, I know that's the time that I use it when I'm out sailing.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  And, and suddenly the wind comes up a little bit rises, I can say it's freshening.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  I think it's a lot of, I think, you can think of it freshening out over the water.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.I
863:  I do.
Interviewer:  What if it's just the opposite of that, it would have been
863:  Dying down.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. Any special, nautical terms for that?
863:  No, I think just dying down either way.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say, um, today is, um, Wednesday then, Tuesday was
863:  Yesterday.
Interviewer:  And Thursday is?
863:  Tomorrow.
Interviewer:  And if someone came here on a Sunday, not last Sunday, but a week earlier than that?
863:  Sunday before last.
Interviewer:  And if you was going to leave not next Sunday but
863:  Sunday after next.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, do you ever say Sunday week?
863:  Well I think I'd say Sunday after next but, yes, I might say Sunday week it's a pretty well known term.
Interviewer:  For the future?
863:  For the future, not ever in the past.
Interviewer:  And if someone stayed from the first to the fifteenth, you'd say he stayed about?
863:  Two weeks.
Interviewer:  And talking about how tall this room is, this room's about?
863:  Eight feet tall.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay, and if a child?
863:  Or high or something.
Interviewer:  If a child just had a third birthday you'd say she's?
863:  Three years old. And,
Interviewer:  If you wanted to know the time you'd ask somebody?
863:  What time it is or what time is it?
Interviewer:  Mm-kay and you'd look at your?
863:  Watch.
Interviewer:  And if it's midway between seven o'clock and eight o'clock you'd say it was?
863:  I would say it was seven thirty buy my grandmother always said half past.
Interviewer:  And if it is fifteen minutes later than that you'd say it was?
863:  Seven forty-five.
Interviewer:  Or?
863:  Maybe a quarter to eight.
Interviewer:  And, say a child is always running and telling on the other children you'd call him a?
863:  Tattle tale.
Interviewer:  Would you use that word about a grown person?
863:  No, probably a gossip.
Interviewer:  Do you ever hear the word pimp used to mean tattle tale?
863:  No, that's always has to do with ladies of the night. {NW}
Interviewer:  And you'd say he moved here in nineteen sixty and he's lived here ever?
863:  Since.
Interviewer:  And you give someone a bracelet ad wanna see how it looks on her you'd say, well, go ahead and?
863:  Try it on.
Interviewer:  Or what it on?
863:  Put it on.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say you can't get through there because the highway department's got their machines and the road's all?
863:  Blocked.
Interviewer:  Or talking about them tearing it up? The road?
863:  Oh. Torn up. Under construction.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say that wasn't an accident he did that?
863:  On purpose
Interviewer:  And, you'd say she what him with a big knife?
863:  Stabbed him?
Interviewer:  And if teacher goes in a classroom and sees this funny picture on the blackboard she might ask who?
863:  Drew that.
Interviewer:  And if you want to lift something heavy like a piece of machinery up on the roof you could use pulleys, locks and a rope to?
863:  To, lift it up.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say to hoist it or
863:  #1 Yes, hoist. #
Interviewer:  #2 heist it? #
863:  Not heist but hoist. {NS}
Interviewer:  Say if, um, something happened on this day last year, you'd say it happened exactly?
863:  A year ago.
Interviewer:  And, you'd say nineteen seventy-three was last year, nineteen seventy-four is?
863:  Is this year.
Interviewer:  And, {NW} if you had been doing something for a long time you'd say I've been doing that for quite a?
863:  Oh, for quite a while.
Interviewer:  And now could you start counting slowly to fifteen?
863:  One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.
Interviewer:  And the number after nineteen?
863:  Twenty?
Interviewer:  And twenty-six?
863:  Twenty-seven.
Interviewer:  And after twenty-nine?
863:  Thirty.
Interviewer:  And thirty-nine.
863:  Forty.
Interviewer:  And sixty-nine?
863:  Seventy.
Interviewer:  And ninety-nine.
863:  One hundred.
Interviewer:  And nine hundred ninety-nine?
863:  A thousand.
Interviewer:  And ten times one hundred thousand?
863:  Is that a million?
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-kay. #
863:  #2 {NW} #
Interviewer:  And if there is people standing in line the person at the head of the line is the?
863:  The first in line or the head of the line.
Interviewer:  Behind him is the?
863:  Second.
Interviewer:  And keep going.
863:  Third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh,
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Twelfth. {NS}
Interviewer:  And you'd say sometimes you feel you get your good luck just a little at a time but your bad luck comes all?
863:  In threes.
Interviewer:  Or it comes all?
863:  At once.
Interviewer:  And, if you got twenty bushels to the acre last year and this year you got forty you'd say this year's crop was exactly?
863:  Twice. Last years.
Interviewer:  Okay, or? What as good, was as
863:  Twice as good or?
Interviewer:  And now what you
863:  Double.
Interviewer:  Okay, can you name the months of the year?
863:  January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, Septemb- September, October, November, December.
Interviewer:  And the days of the week?
863:  Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday.
Interviewer:  What does Sabbath mean?
863:  The seventh day. But it, actually, under those circumstances you start with Monday. Sunday is, is the Sabbath for me.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  But of course it was the Sabbath for the, for the Jewish Nation where it started the seventh day, you'll rest, and that was Saturday.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And if you meet someone during the early part of the day, what would you say as the greeting?
863:  Good morning. {NW}
Interviewer:  How long does morning last?
863:  Until noon.
Interviewer:  And then you have?
863:  Good afternoon.
Interviewer:  How long does afternoon last?
863:  Probably until supper time. {NW}
Interviewer:  And then what do you have?
863:  Good evening. And good night means goodbye, you know.
Interviewer:  How long does evening last?
863:  Probably until twelve, midnight.
Interviewer:  And if you were leaving someone at about eleven o'clock in the day would you say anything if you were leaving?
863:  You mean, beside, goodbye.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm, do you ever say good day?
863:  No. I really never say good day I've heard it but it is just not anything I've ever really said.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm. And, Talking abut the weather you'd look up at the sky and say I don't like the looks of the black?
863:  Clouds.
Interviewer:  And on the day when the sun is shining and there aren't any clouds?
863:  It's a Blue Bird day.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay.
863:  Blue sky day.
Interviewer:  And just the opposite kind of day?
863:  Overcast. Cloudy.
Interviewer:  Say if the clouds are getting thicker and thicker and you think it's going to rain or something in a little while, you'd say the weather is?
863:  The weather is getting worse. It's going to rain.
Interviewer:  Do you ever say it's changing or
863:  #1 Yes. #
Interviewer:  #2 Gathering or # Hmm?
863:  The clouds are gathering, the weather isn't getting gathering, the clouds are gathering, the weather is changing or we're having a change in the weather. A change in the weather usually means something like from cold to hot or hot to cold.
Interviewer:  Mm-hmm.
863:  Perhaps, from really clear day to cloudy day. You know or to a storm #1 gathering #
Interviewer:  #2 Mm-hmm. #
863:  storm clouds gathering.
Interviewer:  And it had been clouding and the clouds pull away you say it looks like it's finally going to?
863:  Clear up.
Interviewer:  And what you were telling me a few minutes ago, the old fashioned name for living room?
863:  Parlor.
Interviewer:  Mm-kay. And a whole lot of rain that just suddenly comes down?
863:  Downpour.
Interviewer:  Any other names?
863:  Gully washer.
Interviewer:  And if there's thunder and lightning?
863:  It's a thunder shower.
Interviewer:  And if it was raining but not real heavy, you'd call it a?
863:  Light shower.
Interviewer:  Any other term?
863:  Drizzle maybe.
Interviewer:  What's the difference?
863:  Sprinkle if it's just beginning and doesn't ever do much.
Interviewer:  What's the difference between a drizzle and a shower?
863:  A drizzle usually comes down very, very lightly for a long time. And a shower generally has pretty good sized raindrops in it.
Interviewer:  What about real fine rain?
863:  That's probably a drizzle or a, or a fine mist perhaps
Interviewer:  #1 Mm-hmm. #
863:  #2 but # When it's drizzling it usually finely mists all day long.
Interviewer:  And if you get up in the morning and can't see across the road you'd call that a?
863:  Probably a fog.
Interviewer:  And a day like that, you'd call a?
863:  Foggy day.
Interviewer:  And if no rain comes for weeks and weeks you say you're having a?
863:  Drought.
Interviewer:  And you mentioned, um, something about writing, have you, written many short stories or?
863:  Only a few and I've, I've not published.
Interviewer:  You just do it for?
863:  For fun. {NS} Sometimes because the Spirit moves me. {NS}