Interviewer: Um Your name {B} your {B} 894: Oh {B} Interviewer: E-N-C-I 894: E-N-A-L E-N-C-I-N-A-L Encinal Interviewer: And the county {B} Uh-huh {NS} What what's the name of this community here 894: It's an well this is just a ranch here this is just a ranch #1 there's # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: No community this is My nearest neighbor is about a mile from here but Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And they lie across the road and uh {NS} Interviewer: You Would you consider this Encinal or 894: R-F-D Encinal I would so think Interviewer: F 894: R-F-D-U rural {X}{NS} Interviewer: Uh huh {B} That you live 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: How big is this ranch? It looks Is this light on both sides of the road 894: No just this side It's small{NS} It's uh two thousand acres Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um and where were you born? 894: I was born in {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Just about a mile away 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: And your age? 894: Uh seventy four Interviewer: And your occupation? {NS} 894: Well I'm retired now And I'm Rancher I should s- say now yes Interviewer: Mm-hmm Is that what you've always done Ranching 894: No I have had ranching Interests all along but I had #1 Further # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: Other positions I have uh Well the last one was a Mobil consignee at Encinal Mobil consignee for fifteen years Interviewer: Um what's that? Mob- 894: Mobil M-O-B-I-L Mobil oil corporation consignee Interviewer: What's con 894: Consignee that's consigned stuff to you you see C-O-N-S-I-G-N double E consignee Interviewer: Uh huh 894: Mobil would sign merchandise to me and I would sell it and send them the money for it Interviewer: Is Mobil a a big oil company in this area? 894: It's uh in the United States Mobil is a{NS} is about the I guess the second or third biggest oil company in the United States Interviewer: Hmm Is that related to Expo Do you know 894: It used to be a part of Exxon And they divided it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: You know they had the Standard {D: crust food} And Mobil used to be Magnolia and they'd buy the stock #1 It became # Interviewer: #2 Huh # 894: Mobil Interviewer: And your religion? 894: Uh I am a {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Is that what you've always been or {D: I noticed you still had said today is it} Um Tell me about your education You remember the The name of the first school you went to and then 894: I went to the Encinal {NS} Interviewer: Uh huh 894: Encinal School at that time we just ha- we just had a uh Two teacher school Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And there was uh Five or six in each uh Classes in each room Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NS} First I went into the Lower one and then Elevated into the higher one Interviewer: Mm-hmm How long did you go there through what grades 894: Uh tenth grade Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Did you get a chance to graduate from college then or 894: No I never Interviewer: Oh you didn't 894: #1 I never attended college # Interviewer: #2 From high school # Interviewer: Did Did you get a uh Chance to finish high school or 894: #1 Well at that time that was # (no speaker): #2 894: That was #1 It at Encinal # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Uh-huh 894: We had only the ten grades {NS} Smaller school {NS} Interviewer: What was Encinal like back then? 894: Almost like it was now It was a headquarters town Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: For a big ranching operation And the ranch Was T-A Coleman Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh He had Several hundred thousand acres under his Jurisdiction and dome {X}{NS} And uh Interviewer: Was this one person{NS} Mister Coleman or 894: Mm-hmm An individual Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NW} He uh Stayed at Encinal And hired all these people the Mexican people And his cowboys he'd bring his Is this what you want? Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: he'd bring uh his cattle The cowboys would uh Herd the cattle out on these ranches Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh bring them into Encinal Out to the shipping pens And ship them out from there To the Grass and Kansas and some place like that There they'd fatten them in that time Where every thing was grass {D: fat pig cat} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Eat meat And uh He had uh Four or five different uh Different uh Camps going And He had about Six or seven cowboys to each camp Interviewer: Mm-hmm What do you mean Camp?{NS} 894: Well it's two each uh The camp there's a Where these men {D: chipped wagon} And I had to cook Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh they had the Boss man which rode the horse with them And then all these other men Worked under this boss man Gathering the cattle and these big And open Pastures Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh There he uh Would gather them up and when he would Clear a pasture why he would bring his cattle to town {NW} Possibly he would take his His calves Off of the cows and cow op- part of the operation Take his calves off and Put them up and grow them out Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And those days why we Felt like that a steer To go to Kansas had to be two years old Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Because or older {NW} Has to #1 because # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} A two year old steer has two teeth Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh when you take him up to the grass pasture Why with two teeth his His teeth were uneven and he couldn't Eat and get fat so they preferred greatly To have three year olds #1 to go out to the grass # Interviewer: #2 Uh huh # 894: {NW} And uh He'd keep them here on this and grow them out {NS} And from there he went on up to Kansas Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Sold them in the fall or the year After a year and then he'd {D: hold grass} there To the Packing plants #1 mostly in # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Kansas City Interviewer: But this were they ships on rails 894: #1 Yeah they'd ship the rail # Interviewer: #2 Or # 894: At Encinal they had a big uh Rail and they'd take those cattle there and uh When I was a child why uh I would set up go there at times I'd have {NS} These box cars all not cattle cars all set out To take these cattle and go out we'd go out there And watch when they'd bring 'em in While they were wild and they would Have a I'd say a rodeo out there They'd have the ropes and the Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Finally they'd sometimes they'd get to milling And they would mill do you know what #1 mill # Interviewer: #2 What # 894: Milling is they go around in circles #1 You see # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh When these cattle get circling that away Why they won't go any place but just this circle And you can't pen them you can't do anything And the cattle {NW} Cowboys would have to go in there and break 'em up They'd have to try to {NS} And uh Then well they would put them into the pens And uh after they got them into the pens they would {NW} Put them in Different Uh Lots Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And they would just take them and assort them According to sizes and things like that and uh Put them in cars What kind of lots would they put them in? I mean Would Was the the lot very Big or Uh they would try to put them in uh according to the number of sizes they had and then afterwards they would cut them out maybe Course what they didn't have the pens to do this with So many cattle that they would cut them out In two or three different{NS} Pens Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And have each size you know more or less Which makes some of them larger and some smaller Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Then he would uh Take these and when he would start to ship Why he would go into one pen and he would Cut out maybe Twenty-five to thirty-two head according to the size Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Put it in the car and They would Spot another car and keep right on until he got it{NS} Maybe they'd be there Eight or ten hours loading cattle Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And was here taking them to the getting ready for the shipment Interviewer: How have things changed now? {NS} 894: Today well the trucking industry has taken over the Cattle #1 business # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: and uh The trucks go to the Ranches picks up the cattle And takes them to the markets Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Now only {D: Callehand} ranch down here Interviewer: How big is that ranch? 894: It's about a hundred thousand acres Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: I don't know exactly {NS} #1 but approximately # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh down there {NS} well they have their own trucks And they take these calves and when they Get to a certain stage {NW} Why they uh Well most of them weening They take them to California in their own trucks They have these Triple deck trucks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh They load them out and they'll That away we they used to take them in train And when they took them in train they would have to unload them Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: The there's a law that you could uh Have to take the cattle twenty four hours Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh after twenty four hours you'd have to unload them Unless you got a special permit They usually got a special permit and took them To Belen New Mexico And by #1 the Santa Fe # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: around that away And then have to unload them and let them rest up there All night And uh Take them into the feed locks Interviewer: Why would they make you unload them? 894: Be- to rest After thirty six hours standing up in the car and jolting them around and everything and they had to water them and #1 feed them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: You see And uh Now with these trucks within thirty six hours that's a minimum federal law that you can't Keep them #1 Over thirty six hours # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: without a rest Now that these trucks why they put them into California in less time than thirty six hours Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NW} Then They come back and ready for #1 another load # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And Interviewer: Why do they take them to California now instead to the Midwest? 894: They take them to California because the cattle today are all cattle that are fed Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Fed cattle That they have out in California you know They have those {NW} Fields possibly this is not They have the fields that they grow Alfalfa on #1 to grow vegetables # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And when the vegetables after three years They have to Switch to Uh A crop like alfalfa that will open up the soil because it becomes this water getting on it gets {NS} so hard that they Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: and that puts the humus in the soil the roots of the alfalfa and they have to grow it and there's lots of alfalfa and they take the cattle out there on account of the feed being there available {NS} And uh {NS} And then they uh {NS} Have to ship in their concentrates and things and #1 feed them grain and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: maybe soy bean meal {D: protein} meal or whatever{NS} #1 they have available # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: and feed them out and put them on the market Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And the buyers from Los Angeles come into come into the Mark his place his his feed lot is in {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And they'd co- come out there and they buy so many cattle they say we want so many cattle they want them to grades so and so Mm-hmm {NS} And uh So They buy them by Dead weight they take them and uh And butcher them And Hang them up on the Hooks And the on the rail they call it Out in the {D: morning} there {NS} And then they Pay them so much a pound for the meat Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} That away why they Keep their things {D: turning}{NS} Interviewer: Hmm Quick second um{NS} {X} Do you click{NS} 894: Uh {NS} Here is uh where we're burning prickly pear to feed the cattle. During the drought of the seasons the cattle come to the sound of the {D: Paraburner we call it a paraburner which is a} torch Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Filled with butane or propane gas and we scorch the thorns off and the cattle eat the uh prickly pear{NS} {NS} Interviewer: That's a kind of a cactus? {NW} 894: {D: Actually it's not} Aux: Oh wow {NS} #1 {NS}I'm gonna show her the cactus picture # 894: #2 # Aux: #1 Just like just like that out there{NS} # 894: #2 # Aux: Now we We grow we feed it most every winter {D: Oh no we} darling I thought I had a picture of this Here it is {D: That's your unobtainable} and that's a closeup picture {NS} Interviewer: Oh that's so pretty{NS} Aux: {D: Something it is when it's one man}{NS} Cause it blooms in them April{NS} About the starts about the Tenth to the fifteen Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: {D: Hold this for you} {D: Hang on} Interviewer: You just Burn the 894: Burn the thorns off The the Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: What do ya call them stickers Or #1 whatever you wanna call them # Aux: #2 Yes mm-hmm # 894: #1 And uh # Aux: #2 {D:Oh and my guess is the} # 894: There is one of the uh {NS} There's one of the machines you see on my back there Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh has a little Three gallon tank filled up with propane Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Whenever that's emptied up or we go back and refill it and start over again and it takes about {NW} three gallons will feed about ten cattle Interviewer: How many cattle This is your ranch here that you live on? 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: How many cattle can you have? How many acres does it take to support one cow? 894: In this country we uh used to figure we could uh it took {NS} twenty acres #1 but today # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: we've got it cut down to fifteen and some people have it as low as seven {NW} On account of the uh{NS} {NW} On account of the grasses planted #1 This pasture here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: now you see that has been rootplowed what we call rootplowed {NW} #1 That's # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: run a They run a big D eight Caterpillar tractor Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Under the ground up with a with a blade on the back of it And it cuts it all of that goes under the ground You're not plowing it and All of the Top vegetation is lifted out Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh that uh way it uh clings it out #1 and gives # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: more room for grass and it doesn't the grass doesn't have to compete with the vege- the the forage of the mesquite {NS} #1 and things # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And Interviewer: This These little shrub likes That's that's mesquite there? 894: Some of it is mesquite And some is we had a Mesquite and then we have a Blackbrush {NW} We have Wahoo Blackbrush. Cattle {D: brows} on that and then #1 we have the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: black uh Wahoo big {D: brows} on that Interviewer: What's a Wahoo? 894: Wahoo it's a plant something Well there's none of it here but it's uh Just a long Leaf plant Has a long leaf and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Big one and uh They uh Hunt it out and it's high in protein Very high #1 in protein # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # 894: And uh Here's one of my beefmaster cattle {NW} He's some sour bull And uh Interviewer: How how much does he weigh? 894: He will weigh about Uh close to a ton Two thousand pounds pretty mighty close To two thousand pounds Interviewer: What kind is he? He's 894: #1 He's a crossbred # Interviewer: #2 Not angus # 894: Beefmaster he's crossbred cattle {NW} In this country they have gone so much to crossbreeding Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: On account of uh{NS} high breed {D: big year} {NW} We uh {NS} That Beefmaster bull is supposed to be a cross {NW} Between uh {NW} Between Say a Hereford Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And a And Brahma they have to have a little {NS} Brahma in them for this country on account of the The ability to walk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And Interviewer: Withstand heat? Or 894: Withstand heat they uh Claim that the Brahma you know sweats through the skin that's the only Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Cattle maybe you've been told #1 already # Interviewer: #2 Mm-mm # 894: And uh they sweat through the skin while they have these other cattle Like the Hereford cattle there {NW} #1 Why she # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: will Sweat for Through the nose {X} {NS} Interviewer: Why do you call it beefmaster? 894: Beefmaster it was a patented name that they have gotten for that cattle these cattle were {NW} Originated down here in Falfurrias Texas Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Mister Lassiter now that he's in Colorado {NW} But they are being raised on account of the uh tonnage. They get so #1 much more tonnage # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: out of one of these Interviewer: He is big 894: Hmm? Interviewer: He is big 894: Mm-hmm And the calves why they {NS} There's a picture of them {NS} by a Hereford cow and you can see how much taller he is than {NS} #1 Hereford # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 {NS} # Interviewer: #2 # Are Brahmas mean? 894: {NW} Brahmas If uh {NS} They're a very nervous type of cattle and #1 they are # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} Mean if you cross them {NW} But you can Aux: {D: Just take them} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: You can uh take the Brahma cattle And uh {NS} Breed a whole lot of that meanness out of them as long as you don't Get them crossed up Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Here's three magazines maybe you would like to take with you Thanks These are now old ones but Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: They're Ranch magazines are never 894: Kind of Aux: old I mean if you have #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # Aux: There's a Brahma there you know #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: And this is the The {D: Santa good tradition} #1 you know that much # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: #1 {NS} # Interviewer: #2 # Aux: Originated on a King ranch Interviewer: Was it? Aux: Mm-hmm They they that's a Only American breed Interviewer: Hmm Yes I'd like to Aux: Yes you may have a uh-huh 894: The beefmaster is #1 an American breed too # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 and here's a # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 Picture # Aux: #2 I guess the # 894: #1 Of uh the way # Aux: #2 First American {D: great pen} # 894: The cowboys Would bring the cattle into the #1 Markets # Aux: #2 {D: Markets} # Interviewer: Did do they still have cowboys now like they used to? 894: Not so much #1 Not so much # Aux: #2 That's a # 894: because You can't find anybody to work anymore {X} Aux: Inviting those to the to the {NS} pens to ship out Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: These cattle here or has the picture taken along #1 they're dry # Aux: #2 their skin # 894: #1 the cattle # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: going in{NS} And here's the old pen before they were torn down you see the man in there sorting the cattle the horseback #1 Trying # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: to get this In there Aux: {X}{NS} 894: And here's another one that they I think they're loading cattle there {NS} into the {NS} Pen into the {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Railroad cars 894: Railroad cars {NS} The this is {NW} Nothing maybe it's pertaining {NS} there's my wife's sister feeding a a cow Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: #1 Some cattle # Aux: #2 All of our cattle # 894: and some cubes cattle cubes #1 We we # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: take our cattle and feed them cattle cubes Right along because it uh {NW} It {D: Channels} them #1 and whenever # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: we go out in the pasture They will come to us instead of us having to go and hunt #1 them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And bring them up Interviewer: What's a cattle cube? 894: Cattle cube is a protein feed that's been concentrated Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Interviewer: This Just a 894: Just a little cube maybe {NS} about like my thumb {NS} there #1 About # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Three quarters To {NS} An inch{NS} {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm{NS} {NS} 894: Square{NS} {NS} In{NS} {NS} Different lengths Aux: Fits just like a {X} 894: We use the #1 three quarters # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: for creep feeding And also half inch half inch {NW}{NS} is more or less like a{NS} p- looks like a little old pellet You know{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm{NS} You use the three quarters for {NS} 894: Creep feeding That's creep cattle we call it creep{NS} but the cattle creep into a feeder there You take it they have uh {NS} They have uh A Pen {NS} And uh {NW} It's all closed in Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And we leave openings for these Calves to go in during #1 feed and keep # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: the cattle out so we can {NW} See that our cattle I mean our calves get the creep feed #1 And our # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: cows we feed them separately on #1 our # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 894: Own And uh {NS} Interviewer: Tell me some about your family Um Were they Born here or 894: {NW} My father Came to this country I'll say country because not to Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: But uh he came here and {NS} And uh Seventy eight eighteen seventy eight Interviewer: How old was he? 894: Eighteen years old he came here horseback Interviewer: {NW} Where did he come from?{NS} 894: He came from{NS} Ar- Around Gonzalez Texas Interviewer: Is that where he was born? Gonzales 894: I think so I'm not sure but Interviewer: Uh-huh What about your mother? Where was she born? 894: She was born the same place Interviewer: Gonzales 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: She came with him then into the South 894: No {NS} they they came separate my father came horseback here #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: He went to work for an uncle of mine that had a big ranch here Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: That time they were in the sheep business{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: And they had lots of sheep and cattle{NS} And uh{NS} {NS} Aux: Very large it's a cattle{NS} This is for the babies Interviewer: Oh I see Just a few more dishes{NS} {NW}{NS} Aux: Some of them are roped up{NS} Here's another one Hold these Here's some It tells you about some of these animals I mean you know how they were There's one that cross that Hoffman with the European cattle you know Those funny names that they love {NS} #1 I don't think I've # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: got any #1 {X} # Interviewer: #2 Huh # Um Your how old was your mother when she came here? 894: I really don't know but uh They first ca- went to Cotulla Cotulla's the county seat of #1 La Salle County # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh she married in Cotulla And And S- Seventy four Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Eighteen seventy four Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh {NS} Interviewer: What was her maiden name? 894: {B} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Have {NS} Have you been very active in Um Clubs or church or anything like that 894: Do what Interviewer: Have you been very active in clubs or 894: No no Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We have no clubs and nothing here of course we have our little church But I'm not #1 really # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: active in it Interviewer: What about traveling? 894: Traveling {NW} Well I love to travel {NW} Interviewer: Where have you been? 894: I have been to My wife has a brother in Portland Oregon and we go out there quite often Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh we go But Most of the Western states #1 is where we do # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: most of our traveling We have been to Yellowstone and And uh {NS} That airport there what is it uh Yellowstone and we've been to Grand Canyon #1 and we've been # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: All out in the Western And to uh And Portland Interviewer: Mm-hmm Just visiting just for few weeks or 894: Yeah and uh Interviewer: {D: Which} Let's see You grew up in Encinal 894: Yes I left Encinal when I was eighteen years old Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Where did you go? 894: I went to Fort Worth Texas {NS} And I Fort Worth I went to a business college there Interviewer: Oh you did 894: Yes Interviewer: What was the name of the business college 894: Draw {B} {X} {B} And uh Interviewer: How long did you go there 894: I went there possibly I don't know six {NS} maybe maybe five six months I don't know{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: And I Got me up a a job Call it a job because it wasn't a position Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh{NS} Working as a Typist Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh I worked In a whole sale drug house #1 In Fort Worth # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 894: And from there I went to {NS} Amarillo Texas Interviewer: How long were you in Fort Worth in all? Uh About two years in Fort Worth Mm-hmm 894: #1 I all I also # Interviewer: #2 Then you went # 894: worked at other places besides that{NS} {NW} I worked at a whole sale drug house and I worked in a In a whole sale lumber yard Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh And then from there I went to Amarillo My brother was manager Of the Ber- {B} And I went to Amarillo to work with with he with he Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And {NW} From So I worked there and went into the office I went in as a shipping clerk Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And as shipping clerk I later became a became office manager Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And from office manager I went on the road and stayed on the road a while And uh Interviewer: What do you mean you went on the road 894: Road is traveling salesman Interviewer: Uh-huh Were were you gone where did you get to go 894: Oh I went out mostly in New Mexico #1 And {D: middle of Texas} # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Boise I went up into Boise boy City out #1 Oklahoma # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And went out to uh {NW} Roswell New Mexico and uh Went over to Carlesbad #1 New Mexico # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Carlesbad Cavern I've Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Been there and uh Interviewer: Just for a few weeks at a time and then you'd go back to Amarillo 894: Yes mm-hmm Interviewer: Mm-hmm Amarillo was headquarters and going back How long did you stay in Amarillo in all 894: Amarillo I stayed about eight years Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh {NS} I worked for {D: Burrows} {NS} We sold a A machine to International Harvester Company Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And at that time they called it a moon Hopkins machine And I installed it And Instead of going back to {D: Burrows} I stayed with International Harvester for about two years Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} And I resigned from International Harvester Planning on going back to {D: Burrows} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Going to Little Rock Arkansas but I {NS} Went to work then for a corporation there City drug stores of Amarillo Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We had six drug stores and I went to work for them {NW} And uh That's where I met my wife And uh So We uh We had these drug stores and I became {NW} Blind And couldn't #1 see I had # Interviewer: #2 Hmm # 894: too much strain on my eyes I {NW} #1 unfortunately # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: just have one eye Interviewer: Oh 894: And uh Using it for bookkeeping work was #1 Quite a strain # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Under artificial lights all day So after that why we came back to Encinal And I went to work on a ranch here Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um When did you move out to Uh Now you're living in in Webb County When did you 894: Move out here Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: Uh I moved out here about a year ago Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} We uh Went and bought this little this trailer house Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And moved it out here and then came out here #1 to live in it # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # You were living in the city limits of Encinal 894: Yes Interviewer: {X} Um What about um You tell me about your parents Do you know about their education How far they got in school or 894: No I'm sure they didn't go very far But I don't know how #1 far because # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: uh {NW} At those times the facilities of schooling #1 wasn't like they are today # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Mm-hmm 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Could could your parents read and write 894: #1 Oh yes they could # Interviewer: #2 {X} # 894: read and write and Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Everything my Interviewer: What's Excuse me 894: My father he uh Very good at figures #1 course not no # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: nothing extra but uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: He worked as a contractor at one time {NW} Building Dirt tanks with mules and dried scrapers Interviewer: Hmm 894: And uh {NW} He would get through building one of his tanks why he would Take a #1 lot # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: a level Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And he would uh get the height and all the dimensions of the dam and Figure it out how many yards it was and collect for it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {X} Interviewer: Did he Ever do any other kind of work besides contracting 894: Well uh ranching Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: This was his ranch at one time He bought this ranch in nineteen twelve And uh he bought another ranch out there {NS} and uh{NS} He and my brother {NS} and my brother he uh {NS} Took over that when my father came over here {NS} #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: {NW} He uh He died moderately young {NS} Course no I wouldn't say moderately young he died at seventy two #1 Because he had his # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: three score and ten years Interviewer: {NW} 894: But uh {NS} So he uh{NS} {NS} Died about the de- just before the depression Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh He was a hard working man and he was a {NS} He was a man that uh Understood the World and he was a worldly man Interviewer: Mm-hmm And uh{NS} He was at one time a deputy sheriff Mm-hmm 894: And uh Dimmit County Interviewer: Where's Dimmit County? 894: Dimmit County is Carrizo Springs Texas That's where I joined this county and the ranches you see #1 It was on the ranch # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: up there where {NW} And their ranch came all the way into here #1 you see # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: {NS} This Interviewer: And people used to have {NS} Ranches a whole lot bigger than they have now 894: Oh yes the ranches were much larger Interviewer: What what would be a average size for back then 894: Oh I wouldn't know but Mister Coleman you take it uh from {D: Lorena to Tatarina} My guess is uh Three hundred miles {NW} And they could say you could get on his land and never get off and go to {D: Catarina} Interviewer: Three hundred miles 894: And uh Interviewer: {X} 894: It's almost unbelievable but uh He had uh course he didn't own all that #1 land but he would # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: maybe skip and maybe Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: Catch another place Interviewer: His his family doesn't isn't 894: His family uh he has a daughter eleven and In {D: Atleet} Texas that's #1 about seven miles # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: from Encinal Interviewer: Does do they still own land 894: They still own land but nothing like they did he went broke Interviewer: Mm 894: And uh After he went broke why within six months he was dead Interviewer: Mm 894: And uh He uh Had lots of cattle Lots of horses and lots of mules {NS} Everything hogs And he developed uh some kind of {NS} {NS} Some kind of an irrigation project {NS} over at uh At uh they call it {D: Cometa} #1 {D: Cometa} # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: that was his brand in this town #1 He named it after his # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: brand And so {NS} He spent a lot of money on that and then the price of cattle you know break in why #1 It uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Broke in Interviewer: When the depression came 894: No no that's way before the depression It uh must have been about nineteen Aux: Twenty three 894: Nineteen twenty three was that when he #1 Mm-hmm # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Nineteen twenty three Interviewer: Hmm What about your mother did she ever work 894: No She worked plenty alright but she had uh She had nine children Interviewer: {NW} Um {NS} What about your grandparents on your mother's side Where were they from {NS} 894: They were from Fayette County I think Interviewer: Fayette That's 894: F-A-Y-E double T E Fayette{NS} {NS} Interviewer: That's where Gonzales is 894: That's right it's a joining county right there close to it Interviewer: Uh huh 894: And uh Interviewer: You think they both were born there in Fayette County 894: Well they were they were neighbors I know #1 I don't know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Possibly so my Grandfather Car he was also over there and {NS} Interviewer: Your your grandfather Car was from Fayette County? 894: Yes Interviewer: What about your grandmother 894: Well she was from over there too {NS} Interviewer: Uh-huh{NS} {NS} 894: #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 She was in McCoy # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # Oh she was 894: What Interviewer: She was in McCoy 894: McCoy {NS} And uh {NS} She was {NS} One of the old rough and tumbling McCoys of the old days Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh Interviewer: When did when did the McCoys come down to Texas {NS} 894: Oh I don't know I don't know Interviewer: They came down from Kentucky was it or 894: I really don't know #1 I really don't know # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: but uh My grandfather Car I know he uh He went with uh General Scott when he went into Mexico Interviewer: Hmm {NS} 894: And uh {NS} He uh {NS} They went over there {NS} and when they went over there They had trouble finding their ways and they came back to Texas Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And they got some of these young Texas men To go over there and scout for them #1 And show them the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: way and he happened to be one of them {NW} And uh I have a Letter that he wrote Saying that uh He was one of the first to be issued One of the old {D: coal} pistols At that time {NW} He uh They tested it out on #1 that trip in # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And uh {NW} He came back And after he came back why he met {NW} His Hester Hester McCoy And that's who uh he married And uh Those people there and before they uh Before why I think that they were kind of chased out of over there What the uh he was in Texas before the Texas was a state #1 His people were # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh They were run out of there by {D: Santa Anna} and his men #1 Or some of those and uh # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: I don't know whatever I don't know too much of that but uh Interviewer: Your your grandfather's people were from Grandfather Car his people were in Texas 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: {NS} Do you know if they were born in Texas or 894: I imagine he wasn't born in Texas I don't know Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Because you know the uh That time they were just beginning to s- #1 Might say settle # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Texas {NW} My father if he was was born in sixty Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: So my grandfather Car he wasn't the oldest child Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Naturally why he would be And the Mexican Revolution when was that in I don't know{NS} But uh Someplace in #1 there right along # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: in that time Independent Texas #1 independence # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # {NW} What um Sort of work did your your grandfather Car and his wife do 894: {NW} He was uh more or less a trader he bought and sold cattle and uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: He didn't do too much of it I don't know what he did but uh From here he went to El Paso Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: In this country my father followed him out there and he Had My father was in the sheep business Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh He uh Took his sheep and went out there {NS} And uh {NS} Free range is talking about free range and free range and he wanted to {NS} His father told him that it was Golden opportunity so my father took his sheep that he had accumulated {NW} And uh went out there And in going in into there there's a little more Texas history here He ran into old John Bean Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh Jean Bean he wanted to charge him so much{NS} For each sheep that he crossed he had a crossing Interviewer: {NW} 894: On the Pecos River Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And of course my father he didn't have any money{NS} Come out to anything at least And uh he couldn't pay it and So he went over there With John Bean and he got uh Drinking a little bit with him Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} And uh So he uh {NS} So he Told the boys one day after he'd been there for some little while Says you go over And start crossing those sheep says I'm going over and And uh Get old man Bean drunk #1 So they went over there # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: and they got Drinking and he got his sheep across and took them on across And went across without paying any fees {NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: And It has been said that he was one of the few men that had outsmarted old #1 John Bean # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: Course you've heard of John Bean old west of the Pecos And uh It was the Pecos River #1 that he had the # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: took the sheep over So he went on out to El Paso on with his sheep And uh When he When he got out there why Things were not as they were Looked to be #1 so he went # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: Broke Interviewer: {NW} 894: All of his sheep died they got some kind of a disease #1 in amongst them # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 and they died # Interviewer: #2 {NS} # 894: He came back to Texas To Encinal this country Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And went to work on a big ranch as a cow boss Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And from there why mister Buckley And uh From there why he uh Started accumulating and Got these Equipment Ready and went to make building these tanks Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And he took up Lived out this {D: schooling} Texas {D: schooling} You know he took up four sections out here on Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: {D: Callehand} ranch and lived it out and uh {NS} He uh {NS} After he got it all lived out and everything Why he sold it and got a little money and bought these two places here Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {NW} Interviewer: What do you mean after he got it lived{NS} 894: Well after at that You had to live on your land for Two or three years and make a certain Amount of improvements #1 on it # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: In order to be {NS} Eligible Interviewer: The homesteading 894: #1 Homesteading # Interviewer: #2 Oh # 894: that's what it was #1 Homesteading # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And uh He Cleared Cleared out a little land out there and #1 Farmed it and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: things like that which was one of the requirements #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: He uh Afterwards why he Caterpillars and things that came in and they can build One of these tanks in one day that #1 would take him # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: thirty days to build With mules And teams Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh That away why He went Looking for other kinds of work and Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} What um What sort of education did your Grandfather Car and his wife has Have 894: I don't know I suppose they just possibly had uh May I would say a Grammar school education or maybe high school #1 I don't know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # What about um Your mother's parents they were from Fayette County 894: That's where they came here from Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They were They were people That uh The greetings whose uh I understand it were {NS} Some of the people that was imported The men that was im- {NS} Ported here To uh To marry some of these Tex- some of the Girls #1 over here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: because that exposure must have been {NS} {D:a circus} #1 And he uh # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # #1 So they came down here then # 894: #2 And they # They He came to the United States now where he {NS} and he didn't I don't think to this country no I think he came to Alabama or some place {NS} Over in there I don't really don't know where but uh Interviewer: He came from Alabama 894: {NS} He came from England to #1 Alabama # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: And uh they were English Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: And uh So I really don't know the Interviewer: Mm-hmm What um You think they were born in Fayette County or that's where they {NS} 894: I don't think so Interviewer: Uh-huh{NS} {NS} 894: I think that my {NS} I think that they came here from Alabama Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} Your grandmother too 894: Yes Interviewer: What about their education Would you guess they 894: Uh Possibly grammar school because In those days they didn't have the #1 facilities # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: of education we have today Interviewer: What sort of work did your mother's parents do {NS} 894: Well he was uh he died at a very young age Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: My Mother's father And the boys they carried on and I don't know what they did they Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They tried to raise cattle and #1 sheep and # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: hogs and things like that Interviewer: Just something to do with ranch 894: And the farming and ranching yes Interviewer: What was your Mother's Mother Maiden name Your grandmother's maiden name {NS} 894: O'Bar yeah Interviewer: O 894: O B-A Capital B-A-R-O apostrophe I guess B-A-R O'Bar Interviewer: Uh-huh Where what country is that 894: O'Bar they uh They're an an Irish name Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: They came I suppose originally from Ireland Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um Do you know where your {NS} The Cars originally came from {NS} 894: They're supposed to have Been from Ireland too I think Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about the McCoys? 894: McCoys {NS} I guess the same #1 thing I guess # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: #1 Ireland # Interviewer: #2 Ireland # 894: The breedings they were English #1 And I think the other # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: part were all Irish Interviewer: What about your wife how old is she 894: How old are you honey Aux: {D: in two weeks} seventy-four 894: Seventy-four Interviewer: And 894: {X} Interviewer: Huh 894: She's not she's seventy-three Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} Is she Methodist too 894: No she belongs to first Christian church Interviewer: Uh-huh {NS} What about her education {NS} 894: Well she has a I suppose a grammar school education she Interviewer: Eighth grade or 894: {X} Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: {D: Shelia} Her mother died when she was a little girl she had {NS} Help with family Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Things like that Is she very active in church or clubs or No Interviewer: #1 Things like that # 894: #2 No we're not # Interviewer: #1 # 894: #2 # Interviewer: Where was she born 894: She was born in Missouri where abouts in Missouri honey Aux: Born in Christian County 894: Christian County #1 Missouri # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 # Aux: #2 # Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # Aux: #2 {X} # {X} They had a a flower mill a water #1 You know on the # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: On the James River in Missouri Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: And that's uh about seventeen miles out of Springfield Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: Springfield Missouri uh-huh And that My father and mother both died Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Real young my mom was real young Interviewer: #1 Whe- # Aux: #2 {X} # Not much about them because we left there when I was about eight years old Interviewer: Mm-hmm Where where was um Your parent where were your parents from #1 Missouri # Aux: #2 M- my # Uh-huh my father was was born here uh {X} {NS} Saint Jones of Missouri a little town in Maysville And my mother was born I never did know the town where she was born but but she always said uh {NS} Oh Illinois Now I can't remember #1 the county now # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: in Illinois she always called it the county and {X} Interviewer: Mm-hmm #1 Um # Aux: #2 And that's # And my papa {X} we were Scotch Irish and Dutch Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Now we're now we're at my grandfather on my father's side came to {NS} To Missouri {X} A boy nineteen years old from Ireland Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And the and the grandmother On his mother Was from Holland And they settled in Pennsylvania Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: When the And that's Why my parents both dying why you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: You don't keep up with them so well When they're living that's why they live to be a hundred and {NS} Hundred and one years old Interviewer: A hundred and one Aux: Why yes 894: #1 A hundred one # Aux: #2 Uh-huh # 894: years eight months and {NS} {NS} About twenty days Aux: I think yeah and that you know #1 You get # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # Aux: He doesn't remember much about He just loves to play with marbles {NW} {D: And play out the horseshoes} Ride his horse he He doesn't remember much about What they did whenever they were when he was a youngster Interviewer: Mm-hmm Um {NS} You don't speak Spanish do you 894: Uh yes I do Interviewer: You Did you grow up speaking Spanish 894: Yes I did {NS} People asked me how I learned Spanish and I ask them how they learned English I learned Spanish the same way they learned English but Aux: #1 Well he had a Spanish maid # 894: #2 Out with the Spanish people # Aux: #1 # 894: #2 # Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: That his mother kept all the time 894: {X} Interviewer: Did uh what about your parents did they speak 894: My father spoke Spanish my mother she could understand and had what we called kitchen Spanish She knew things that #1 would come up # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: in the household Aux: Housemaid {X} {NS} Interviewer: What um was how fluent was your father in Spanish was did he grow up speaking it 894: {NW} #1 I don't know but I imagine so # Aux: #2 I imagine he did # 894: because he could speak it he was very fluent in Aux: He lived here #1 He came here # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: At Encinal before the railroads and everything In nineteen and eighty four Interviewer: Mm-hmm{NS} {NS} Eighteen eighty four Aux: Uh yeah eighteen I was way ahead {NW} Interviewer: Um Aux: {NW} Interviewer: You You had a a Spanish maid When you were 894: Yes we always had a maid in In the kitchen She Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: She washed the dishes and sweeped the house and maked the beds and things like that Interviewer: Did you have a maid to take care of you when you were little 894: No no we Interviewer: #1 Didn't have the # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: #1 the nana # 894: #2 We # Aux: What 894: What Interviewer: What's it called the the nana You didn't have Aux: Not like a nanny you mean in English Then No Well they had someone all the time in the house His mother wanted to go somewhere well they spent Interviewer: Uh-huh 894: What do you call it Interviewer: This nana or something like that the the maid that takes care of the children 894: Oh #1 Know # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm that # 894: What it is Aux: I don't know #1 Either # 894: #2 You got to # Interviewer: {NW} But {X} Tell me about the the Spanish here did Did most people here grow up speaking both Spanish and English 894: Yes mo- we boys here in Encinal all Almost always spoke Spanish #1 Between ourselves # Aux: #2 But lots of girls # Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh I don't know why but I think we found it a little bit easier to #1 To # Aux: #2 We didn't have any more # Their playmates mostly were Spanish 894: #1 And uh # Aux: #2 You know # 894: #1 to carry on a conversation # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: in Spanish #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And of course they Everybody talked Spanish Aux: Not everybody 894: Well the the All of the boys that I{NS} Aux: #1 Yeah uh-huh # 894: #2 And uh # Aux: But lots of girls I know didn't speak Spanish 894: No no well some of them didn't speak it #1 As good as others # Aux: #2 Yeah you know well # 894: {NW} But uh We uh We learned Spanish and we Talked it and we s- I studied it some in school #1 And I've been # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: studying it ever since because I Our {D: Loredo} paper has a Spanish section in it and I try to read it just for Trying to {NS} Keep up with it Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Thing And uh We would play marbles with the Mexican boys we played baseball with them We'd fight with them and #1 Everything like # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: That you know just like kids do in any {NW} Whether they're red white or blue it's {NW} Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: We That's the way we were there was no uh discrimination #1 In that way # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: between us Aux: But you didn't go to the {NS} same school oh #1 They had a Spanish # 894: #2 They had separate schools # Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: {NW} What um percentage would you say of Um Population in Encinal was Was actually uh First generation Mexican Or Aux: Do you mean by Mexicans from Mexico Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} 894: Oh I don't know Interviewer: Or people who 894: Most of the people the Spanish people there the Mexicans as we called them The Latins {NS} #1 Why they uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: They were Reared on this side Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: They were Part that we I guess inherited in the {NS} When we uh took made Texas Um An independent Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Republic and then They lived here and made families and they stayed here #1 And that's where they're # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: from They never did learn any English To amount to anything up until now they're beginning to learn a little Some of them Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: #1 Don't care # Aux: #2 No # 894: about going to school and they not learning Interviewer: So when when you were young If someone wanted to come here to work In a store or something like that Chances are they'd have to be speaking Spanish 894: Yes Most of the time Just like {D: Loredo} might say now Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: {D: Loredo} you when you have to speak Spanish in order to work there Interviewer: Mm-hmm Did um {X} {D: Loredo's} about Thirty Thirty miles from here or 894: Thirty-eight miles from Encinal Yeah not{NS} Forty miles Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: But then And when he was boy with dirt roads Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: It took a Day and a half maybe to go there by A Wagon you know or buggie 894: We went We went with trains #1 Whenever we went # Aux: #2 {X} # Interviewer: Did you go very often 894: Not very often Interviewer: Which was the bigger town Encinal or {D: Loredo} Aux: {NW} {D: Loredo's} like a 894: Encinal Encinal has never been nothing but a cow town Interviewer: Uh-huh It's just been a Headquarter for these ranches 894: #1 All of their # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: cowboys and things had their family there in Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And {D: Loredo} was Was quite a Different {D: Loredo} back there in those days I guess Had ten or twelve thousand where Encinal maybe had a thousand Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Maybe more than that I don't know what {D: Loredo} had but Aux: I don't remember #1 When we came here # 894: #2 We uh # Aux: I believe {D: Loredo's} About twenty-five thousand forty-five years ago 894: #1 We uh # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 {NS} # Interviewer: #2 # 894: #1 # Interviewer: #2 # 894: We'd go to {D: Loredo} when I was a boy and Our bicycles were a nickel an hour And ride it and maybe ride across the river #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: And the little Mexican boys Maybe I shouldn't tell this but They would curse us you know #1 about # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: being gringos and that So we uh Interviewer: About being what 894: Gringos #1 That's what they` # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 894: Called Americans they used To And uh {NS} Aux: They still do 894: We'd make one out like we didn't know what they were saying course we understood it we could #1 Talk Spanish # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: As good our guess they could #1 {NW} # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: But we they weren't looking for any trouble especially across that river Because you get in trouble over there you're really in trouble Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And We'd ride around on bicycles and come back Turn it in after our nickel was used up #1 Or something or # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 894: And uh We Streets wasn't paved in those days and #1 bicycle riding # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: was a little bit harder than it is now Interviewer: {NW} {NS} Um I'd like to get an idea of what the House that you grew up in looked like Could You sort of make a sketch of the floor plan and Tell me the just{NS} Where the rooms were{NS} 894: You wanna make it Sketch on Aux: Wait just a {NS} Before he was born it was one little room And a lean-to you know what a #1 lean-to is # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: don't you Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Like this porch is leaning to the desk you know And then His father I if I would have talked to hi- hi- his mother and father I was with him more and he #1 was after we came # 894: #2 {X} # Aux: #1 After we came here # 894: #2 {D: I'll make} # Aux: #1 I'll make this is what I'm making now # 894: #2 To this # Aux: This is one little room #1 And then as the the family got larger # 894: #2 {X} # Aux: Why they uh #1 Added rooms # 894: #2 Expanded # Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: Uh-huh {X} Mister Car said Always he added #1 a room # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # Aux: every time he had a child born #1 And uh # Interviewer: #2 Well # 894: I said so I can't Aux: And that was three This was three rooms here We see all these four rooms I got that And big portraits you know Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Here's the kitchen Dining room Master bedroom A family 894: I guess I got that a little bit out of proportion there Aux: {X} 894: This isn't the room here And here's the This is all porch Aux: Bedroom Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: {X} {X} 894: And uh Interviewer: What did you call this room here Aux: Here 894: Well when that was put on there we called it the sitting room Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Well that's what your father said{NS} {X}{NS} Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: They All straight along here and #1 then they had # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: {X} Oh I forgot that's the little hole between here Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: This way And then this it was a bath there Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And a big porch Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: Did you get in the bath I forgot it 894: Yeah Aux: And there's a {NW} {NS} That the porch 894: No this is a bedroom Aux: Well that's not right Cause that There was a porch one out here off this little Hall and 894: Here's the porch Aux: Oh{NS} Oh Well I've got a better plan {NW} I forgot the bed This little room here I ain't ever did Makes it kind of a storage and #1 You know # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: And then after Mister Car died why Misses Car Rented this part out #1 She made an apartment out # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: she put a little Indoor I mean a little cabinet #1 And # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: Water and everything and was very neat and nice and She rented it to schoolteachers people who #1 Came you know # Interviewer: #2 Huh # Aux: #1 And # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: {X} lived out of town And when we came here we lived there Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: When we came to this country {X} she called all the newlyweds way up there Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: He had a cousin that was marrying {X} uh Several schoolteachers And now a little family from Catulla they had branches out Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: On the fritter highway And they lived there Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} What What are these drawings now what 894: Kitchen K {NS} D R dining room B R bedroom Parlor I wrote that out This is a Interviewer: That's what you'd call the sitting room huh 894: #1 Yes # Aux: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: #1 And lean-to I wrote on # Aux: #2 {X} # 894: #1 there but this is # Aux: #2 {NS} # 894: #1 a # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: This is a bedroom Aux: But that part of his off the room the room off the dininga hall had a big fireplace in it #1 And Misses Car had her bed in there # 894: #2 Bedroom # Aux: #1 And that's where # 894: #2 Mister # Aux: when we'd all go visit that's where we all #1 Stayed # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: And sat in there and talked that's what I called it really #1 Family room in mine # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: But she had a bed in there 894: Bedroom and this is a hall here Interviewer: What's this thing 894: Yeah no it's a bed bath B Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: And uh We take it to kitchen The dining room And bedroom And parlor And uh Aux: Pretty modern for the times #1 And location # 894: #2 You take it this # This room here My brother was born in here and if he were living he would be about what Aux: #1 Eighty-two # 894: #2 Eighty # Aux: #1 the first day of June # 894: #2 Eighty-two # Aux: he'd be eighty-two 894: He'd be eighty-two years old and he was born in this room here Interviewer: Hmm 894: That's how old that uh Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Old house the old house still in Encinal Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: I sold it {X} {NS} And uh Aux: He gave part of the {X}{NS} Great big {NS} {X}{NS} to the Baptist church {NS} Interviewer: Uh-huh Aux: For them to be able to church Interviewer: What what would you call um This Parlor or sitting room what would you call it nowadays Aux: I'd call it a living room 894: I guess so a living room isn't that what you call #1 What do you call # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # Aux: Yes where were we The people who bought it I mean Or rented it we rented it quite a while before #1 We sold it # 894: #2 They built all # Aux: #1 # 894: #2 # They built that on there when my One of my uh Sisters was Aux: Gonna get married 894: Getting married and entertaining her boyfriend over there Interviewer: {NW} 894: #1 Built # Aux: #2 And he # 894: #1 It on # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 894: But they you they made a bedroom out of it Interviewer: Mm-hmm Aux: In that place where the where the fireplace was set up they made that the living room Interviewer: Hmm Aux: And there's a range #1 very nice there # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Aux: {NS} That way Interviewer: You you had a fireplace in one of those rooms 894: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Um {NS} You know on the fireplace the thing that the smoke goes up through You call that the 894: Chimney Aux: Chimney yeah 894: We call it the chimney Interviewer: Mm-hmm 894: Flue I guess {NS} Aux: Chimney I guess it's Interviewer: What about the open place on the floor In in 894: The hearth Interviewer: Hmm 894: We called it the hearth Interviewer: Mm-hmm {X} {NS}