911: In other words you gonna ask me a question and I'll just answer it? Interviewer: Yeah 911: Okay Interviewer: Um, your name 911: {B} Interviewer: And your address? 911: {B} Los Fresnos Texas Interviewer: And the name of this county? 911: Cameron. Interviewer: And where were you born? 911: Brownsville. Interviewer: How far away's Brownsville from here? 10 mi- 911: {NW} Ten, twelve miles Something like that. Interviewer: And your age? 911: Forty three. Interviewer: And occupation? 911: Well pretty much self-employed. Interviewer: What sort of things do you do? 911: Land development. Interviewer: That's what the- 911: Yeah. {NS} mm-hmm Interviewer: What do you mean by land development exactly? 911: Well we gotta bunch of land here In and around Los Fresnos and that's what were trying to- subdivide it and sell it in lots. Interviewer: Di- #1 did you have anything to do with the community here? # 911: #2 No. # Not- not this street here, most of our stuff's down inside of town. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you have your own company or- 911: Yeah, mm-hmm. Interviewer: And your religion? 911: Episcopal, Episcopalian. Interviewer: Have you ever done any other work besides land development? 911: Oh yeah Interviewer: What sort of thing? 911: Well I worked in a bank for twelve years. {NW} Interviewer: In Brownsville? 911: mm-hmm {NS} Interviewer: Doing what? 911: Just about everything when I quit I was a loan officer. {NS} I was a stock broker for seven years and I worked for the country club for a year, {NS} in their land development division. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. That's the same country club that had the golf tournament? 911: mm-hmm Now those are- That's what I've done since I've been old enough to have good sense but- Before that you know kid- Interviewer: mm 911: working, as a teenage- I worked cotton gin filling stations and stuff like that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. {NS} Tell me about your education. Starting with the first school you went to if you remember the name of it and- 911: Mean as uh a kid? Interviewer: Mm-mm 911: Well I started and finished at Saint Joseph's academy in Brownsville. started there in kindergarten and graduated from there. {NS} Interviewer: Then what? 911: Then I went to Texas southmost college Interviewer: At {X} 911: Mm-hmm, For a year almo- yeah I guess about a year, two semesters Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: Then I went to the University of Texas for two years. Interviewer: At Austin? 911: mm-hmm Interviewer: You were there two years? 911: Yeah Interviewer: What were you studying? 911: Well I started out studying pharmacy, ended up studying business, never finished either one of them. {NS} Not cause I didn't- cause you know- I just quit cuz I was tired of it. Interviewer: Thats the- um Only time you've lived outside of Brownsville? 911: Yeah And here of course you wanna consider this living outside of Brownsville, I've been here for a year. And I'll just here long enough to get this foolishness done and then I'll go back. {NW} Interviewer: You don't like it out here? 911: Yeah I like it I have nothing to here though. And anything you wanna do you've got to just get in the car and drive twelve miles and I hate that road. #1 Oh lord we do it sometimes six times a day. # Interviewer: #2 {NW} # 911: And it's too much for me cause all our friends you know and all of our activities and everything else is in Browsville. Interviewer: This is a new house though it seems like you- 911: Belongs to the company. {X} Uh the plan was that way that we'd come out here and and do this until we either got it all done or decided not to do it. Interviewer: #1 mm-hmm # 911: #2 So I'm just here, # Kinda temporary. Interviewer: What are you gonna do in Brownsville? The same development there in Brownsville? 911: No, you mean if I lay this? Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: I don't know {NW} I'll worry about that when it comes. Interviewer: What sort of things are- are you active in? Besides you your land development? 911: I play golf. Interviewer: mm-hmm At the country club {D: I guess}? 911: Anywhere that got a golf course. Yeah, usually at the country club though. Interviewer: What else? 911: Play bridge. Interviewer: Is there a bridge club that your- 911: No, play bridge for money {NW} we just play bridge {NS} That's about it, go {D:fishing}, you know, just other than that, don't do much. Interviewer: Are there any, uh, clubs or organizations that you belong to? 911: Not anymore I went all through that stuff. Interviewer: What did you used to be in? 911: Well I was in the junior chamber of commerce got up to be president of that in Brownsville. I don't know, I guess I guess I was in that for about five years and then I was president and stayed in one more year after that and quit. And I was in the chamber of commerce and Red Cross and community what do you call it united fund and {NW} I don't know, all that foolishness that everybody does once upon a time. {NW} Interviewer: Why don't you like those things anymore? {X} 911: Well I liked them at the time but I think everybody after a while, you get tired there's some people that just thrive on that uh I just put in my time in 'em I- It's not that I don't have time anymore, got more time now than I ever had but I just- Anytime I do anything usually away from the house anymore I just go play golf. Maybe it's old age I don't know. Interviewer: What about church? Are you active in church? 911: No, not very I'm sorry to say. Interviewer: Have you done much traveling? 911: No very little, I'm not much of a traveler either. Oh I've done some but not, excessive. Interviewer: Where have you been? 911: You mean away from Brownsville at one time or another going as far back? Well I've been in Saint Louis, been in Indiana, and I've been in well last summer went out to California, by way of Las Vegas. Uh That's about the main. I've been around the state of Texas you know several times. Interviewer: Just for vacation or- 911: Yeah. Interviewer: Tell me something about your parents and where they were born and- 911: My mother and father were both born in Brownsville. Interviewer: What about their education? {NS} 911: Um Well my daddy was alright. He got through college he got uh he was a pharmacist. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 911: And my mother went uh up to Southern College in uh Virginia. {NS} I think, I don't know, it was a two year college and it was way back a long time ago I don't know whether she went any place else other than that or not. Interviewer: Did she ever work? Outside your home? 911: My mother never worked a day in her life, {NS} outside the house. Interviewer: What was her maiden name? 911: {B} Interviewer: What about your grandparents on your mother's side? Where were they born? 911: Hmm If in my mother could hear me here not being able to answer that she'd kill me. I don't know I- I think No they weren't born in Brownsville I don't believe. My grandfather was born in somewhere up in Texas somewhere. I can ask her if you want me to tell you. Interviewer: #1 Do you think they were born in Brownsville? Or- # 911: #2 I don't think so. # She can tell me in a minute course if I start asking her stuff like that, take me an hour to get. {NS} You want- you wanna know? Interviewer: Well you don't have to ask her right now but I'd be curious. 911: They lived there long, long time I know they were living in Brownsville in the eighteen eighties. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 911: Or nineties they may have been born- I don't think my grandfather was there's a possibility my grandmother was but I'd have to check on that. Interviewer: What about their education? 911: Well my grandfather was a lawyer Interviewer: What about your grandmother? 911: Um I don't think she had any college education Interviewer: Did she ever work? 911: No. Interviewer: {NS} You think she had about a high school education or so? 911: Yeah probably I'd have to ask my mother those things I've heard 'em you know more than once but I don't- Something I don't pay that much attention to but. Interviewer: What about your grandparents on your father's side? 911: Well They weren't- don't think they were born in Brownsville. There again I'm not sure. My grand- there- #1 Same about the same there if either one of 'em was born in Brownsville, it've been my grandmother. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 911: And I'm not sure if she was I'd have to check on that too. Interviewer: #1 mm-hmm # 911: #2 I think # I think my grandmother's parents came down here with uh when this uh Zachary whatchamacallit Taylor came down to Fort Brown, I think. Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: And uh Seems to me my grandfather That my great grandfather came from Spain and brought my grandfather with him but I'd have to check on that too. I'd rather ask you know than tell you the wrong thing. My mother can tell me in a minute. {NS} Interviewer: Do you know about their education? 911: No I sure don't I'm I'm reasonably positive that neither one of them had a college education Interviewer: Do you think they had high school? 911: Yeah I think so, but there again I don't know I better say don't know then tell you yeah or no Interviewer: Well you think they could read and write 911: Oh yeah. Interviewer: They were- educated some. Yeah my grandfather ran a bout six thousand acre farm. He's heck pretty quick with those figures Did your grandmother ever work outside the home? 911: No. Had seventeen kids. Interviewer: Seventeen? 911: Mm-hmm {NW} Interviewer: #1 That's incred- # 911: #2 She worked around the house. # Interviewer: What was- Do you um Your grandmother on your mother's side do you know her maiden name? 911: {B} Interviewer: What about on your father's side 911: {B} Interviewer: How do you spell that? 911: {B} Interviewer: That's Polish? 911: Yeah Interviewer: What about um the your ancestry farther back you say your- your grandfather um Ferdandez was from Spain? 911: Mm-hmm Interviewer: Or his his people were What about on your mother's side? {X} 911: Well that goes back a long ways my mother's got a book on it what do you call it the genealogical. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: And they- during the war they didn't have much to do you know all the kids were off in you know World War two and they wrote lots of letters and traced it and they traced members of the {B} from the {B} and what not back through, oh they, one of 'em was at the Alamo. Uh they went back through {NW} Tennessee Kentucky on back up to the- I think there was some question there, don't know that ever got the answer to it I think they did, one of them cats was on the Mayflower but I'd have to check on that. Interviewer: Do you know which side of the family that was that- 911: No. Either on- Either on it or right after it they've just been over here since Back in the seventeen hundreds. Back up, {NW} round the Carolinas and places like that and then just slowly started coming down you know like Ken- Kentucky and Tennessee and on up in the, somewhere up around in Montgomery county Texas or somewhere then came down here. Interviewer: You know when they came down here? Do you know? 911: {NW} Well that goes back to the question of whether or not my grandfather was born here or not. Uh {NW} I know that they were around here in the in the eighteen nineties. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: If my grandmother was born here she's born in the eighteen eighties uh I think. But you better not put this down. But I think my grandfather came here when he was a little boy. Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: And that've been in the eighties. Interviewer: Your grandfather on your mother's side? 911: Yeah Interviewer: Where do you think he came from? Just some- 911: Montgomery county Texas wherever it is I think you better just let me write down the things that we're trying to pin down and I'll get my mother to tell me, she can tell me all this stuff here in about five minutes. Interviewer: Okay. What about your wife how old is she? 911: Well now you got to tell me what you want, my first wife or my second wife? {NW} Interviewer: When- Did you divorce? 911: Yeah Interviewer: When did you marry your first wife? 911: {NW} Nineteen {NW} fifty-three {D: I think} fifty-three. Interviewer: And when did you divorce? 911: Nineteen seventy-two. Interviewer: How old was she then? 911: When we got divorced? Interviewer: uh-huh 911: Bout thirty- thirty-nine I think. Thirty-eight or thirty-nine. What are you gonna- you- this information not going any place but you and me is it? Interviewer: No 911: Oh okay Interviewer: Was she from Brownsville? Or- 911: No she was from Atlanta Georgia. Interviewer: Oh really? 911: Or Savannah Georgia. {NS} Think it's Savannah. Interviewer: Do you know about her education? 911: High school, one year of college. Interviewer: Did she work? 911: No. Interviewer: What was her maiden name? 911: {B} Interviewer: Do you know anything about where her parents were born? 911: Out there in Georgia I think. Interviewer: uh-huh 911: Yeah I'm pretty sure they were born in Georgia. Interviewer: What about your wife now? How old is she? 911: Twenty-eight, I think. Yeah, twenty-eight. Interviewer: Was- What about the religion of of your first wife? Was she- 911: Well I don't know what she was, she became Episcopalian after we got married. Interviewer: Uh-huh What about your wife now? 911: She's a Baptist. Interviewer: {NS} How long have y'all been married? 911: Almost a year. {NS} Be a year June ninth. Interviewer: What about her education? 911: High school. Interviewer: And where's she from? 911: Indiana. Interviewer: Do you know if her parents are from Indiana? 911: Yeah. {NS} I think. I mean I don't know if they were born there or not but that's where they've lived for a long time. {NS} Interviewer: Has she ever worked? 911: Oh yeah. She's a worker. Interviewer: Does she work now? 911: Mm. Works for me. She does secretarial work in here. Doesn't get paid. {NW} This thing on right now or not? Interviewer: Yes. 911: Oh it is. Okay I better watch what I say. Interviewer: Uh tell me something about what Brownsville's like and how it's changed since well from thirty year ago or so. 911: Oh it's changed something terrible. Um trying to find a comparison for you when I'm you talk thirty years ago, I'd have been thirteen. It wasn't quite as small as Los Fresnos then, it's quite a bit bigger but it just, is a sleepy little town you could ride a bicycle right up the middle of Main Street at high noon and not worry about getting hit by anything and now you've seen it, what it is now it just busting at the seams. I liked it best the way it was before, but you can't fight progress. Interviewer: What's the population now? 911: I think the last census put it at somewhere around well I don't know, the last census was nineteen seventy. I think it says somewhere around seventy thousand, doesn't it? Sixty thousand, seventy thousand but they s- they're estimating it somewhere over eighty now estimate. Interviewer: Um what about the the language thing did- Which language did you grow up speaking? 911: Well mainly just almost entirely Span- uh English. Interviewer: Uh-huh 911: Now I learned Spanish from the maid. Now the only thing I learned in Spanish, before I learned it in English, I could tell time in Spanish. Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: Because the maid taught me how to tell time now I could if you ask me what time it was and I'd tell you in Spanish but everything else uh we spoke around the house was a hundred percent English except if like we were talking to the maid or somebody that didn't speak English cause we spoke all English. Interviewer: Now how- Do you feel equally comfortable in both languages or 911: Well I never have been very good at Spanish. I mean other than pure border Spanish. Now my grandfather spoke true Spanish Spanish. And to hear him talk and to hear somebody from the border talk, Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: was just entirely different. The expressions they used and the way they even pronounced some words and things was just really different. Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: And what I learned was border Spanish. And my father spoke kind of a combination of the two can't say he spoke correct Spanish as we know, you know, like in Spain, Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: it was mostly just border S- Spanish. I don't know whether to call it Mexican or border Spanish but there's a lot of differences. I don't remember the terms and the expressions but I could I remember thinking boy my grandfather talks funny cause he talked a lot of Spanish. Uh he he spoke better Spanish than English now that's not to say that he's- talk talks with an English- talked English with an accent or anything like that but sometimes he could explain himself it's, you know, it seems to me in Spanish better but they spoke uh around their house they spoke I'd say eighty percent English at least. Maybe more. They didn't speak much Spanish at all. When they were talking with the kids and stuff like that they talked in English. Interviewer: What about your- #1 Uh this is your grandfather- # 911: #2 That's on my- # Interviewer: #1 {X} # 911: #2 Yeah, right # Interviewer: What about his wife? She- was like him with the first language really Spanish or- 911: I don't really remember, spoke good Spanish but I think she was uh there again I think it was mostly English. They could speak all the Spanish they needed to and speak it good. Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: Um But it just seems to me they always just spoke English. Interviewer: What about your mother? Which language- 911: Well she thinks she speaks it pretty good but she doesn't. {NW} Spanish, just pure English. Interviewer: Uh-huh 911: She can talk to the maid and stuff like that in in real border Spanish. Interviewer: mm-hmm 911: Uh, but they always just and my grandmother on my mother's side spoke you know real good Spanish. Interviewer: mm 911: I don't mean correct but I mean they could really get themselves understood in Spanish but whether you could call it bilingual or not but they did speak good Spanish. Interviewer: #1 Do you ever speak Spanish? Or do you- # 911: #2 Oh yeah # {NS} not not You know sit down with my friends we just talk English all the time I would kid around a lot in Spanish because there're a lot of uh, what should I say, funny expressions in Spanish that we've known all our lives, kidding around and some of 'em a little bit on the risque side and we throw those around, particularly if we go on a trip some place and there're all English speaking people around there and we wanna get one off with you in Spanish somewhere but uh {NS} we speak you know I- to say that I'll sit down with anybody and carry on a conversation in Spanish no I don't do that. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you just speak Spanish to Do you have a maid? 911: No I got a yard man and uh he speaks broken English so I'll communicate with him in Spanish you know just easier. Interviewer: What's the ratios of of Anglos to Mexican Americans and Latin um 911: #1 In Brownsville? # Interviewer: #2 In Brownsville. # 911: {NS} I don't know I I wouldn't even wanna guess at that. I'd say it used to be pretty high. {NW} Um, uh you know percentage of uh I don't know what you wanna call 'em Latin Americans or Mexicans I don't- whatever but uh I think it- it's switching a little bit more towards uh Anglos, there's a lot more people coming in. This growth that we're having is predominantly Anglos coming in from other parts of the country but I don't know whether it'd be four to one I- I guess four to one might be pretty accurate or close three or four to one. Interviewer: What'd it used to be, thirty years ago? 911: Well I imagine it probably was about the same really when the population was that much what six times less than it is now or approximately, it's probably pretty close to the same it might've been a little bit more. Uh but I'd just have to guess at it uh. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: That's one thing I've never much paid attention to with uh growing up, I just never paid attention to whether you know a guy was Smith or Gonzalez or- I just never looked at it much, paid paid any much attention to it. Interviewer: Did- were there many Anglo families who, with children, spoke predominately English when you were growing up? Or did most of your friends speak pretty fluent Spanish? 911: Uh {NS} No I think it uh {NS} trying to think of a few see if I can come up with. I think that the the majority of the friends that I had you know when I was growing up {NS} that were Anglos {NS} they just stumbled around with Spanish pretty good. They'd try to learn it in school but they can't teach you how to speak in school, I'll argue that with anybody they teach you the verbs and stuff like that but, you send that man out on the street to carry on a conversation, he's gonna get lost. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: Uh I'd say if they spoke any at all it's just kind of busted up and choppy and they could make themselves understood but they couldn't carry on a conversation. {NS} Interviewer: #1 Um {NS} did you move around much when you were {NS}little, with your family? # 911: #2 You mean from house to house? # Interviewer: Uh-huh 911: No I guess let's see I was born- we were living in one house and I was born, and moved out of there when I was about ten to another house and my mother's still living in that one. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: So since I- from the time I was born 'til the time I got married and left {X} I lived in two houses. Interviewer: Could you make a sketch of the floor plan of that second house or- 911: Of the second house? Interviewer: Yeah, if if you remember it- {NS} #1 better- # 911: #2 you mean # where we're living now, my mother {NS} lives now? Interviewer: Uh-huh and the names of the rooms and- {NS} 911: Oops. Not not to scale uh? Interviewer: No {NW} just a rough sketch {NS} 911: This will show you that I am not an artist. {NS} Let's see, that's the porch {NW}, that's the living room hmm {NS} bedroom and the bathroom. You gonna be able to tell the difference between bedroom and bathroom? Interviewer: Isn't the bathroom smaller? 911: Mm okay. Mm well this whole thing back here is a hallway and a bathroom and a bedroom. {NS} That's a dining room this is kinda like that with the kitchen and this was a well you- I can't put B-R for breakfast room so let me write it. This is kind of a you know breakfast room where we ate unless we had #1 {NS} company or something go into the # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 911: #1 dinning room. Most of the time we ate back there, that's pretty close. # Interviewer: #2 What was this here? # 911: That's the front porch right there. Interviewer: What about the house that- 911: There's the porch right here. Interviewer: that you lived in once you got married? You haven't lived in this one very long. 911: {NW} Lord I lived in one, two, three, lived in three houses with {NS} my first wife. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: and uh then we moved in here after #1 when I was- # Interviewer: #2 Can you sort of make a sketch of this house? # 911: Of this one? {NS} I got a copy of it there I'll give you. 911: Is that right? {NS} You can turn it around {D: and see} {NS} that's the bedroom, bathroom, {NS} be the entrance, now this {NS} is a hallway {NS} that's a bedroom, {NS} and this is a bath {NS} and this is a bedroom and this is really a bedroom but this is an office and uh where am I now? That's the door better draw the hallway kitchen's here well boy kitchen's here and this is bigger dining room's here and that's the garage that's more or less the living room but that's a poor drawing. Interviewer: {NS} Did you ever hear of an old-fashioned name for porch? {NS} Or names for special kinds of porches {NS}? 911: For a porch? {NS} Think you've made me draw a blank I can't even think how to say porch in Spanish. {NS} No. Interviewer: What about a porch on the second floor? 911: Huh {NW} Interviewer: Do you ever hear it called a gallery or veranda? 911: Oh veranda yeah, but veranda the little I heard it used around kind of veranda was uh was kind of a downstairs be kind of like that only a bigger deal than that kind of enclosed, brick clo- enclosed, off the back of the house. Let's go out on the veranda kinda you know full of trees and bushes and stuff like the more the way I heard it used more. Interviewer: What would you call this out here? 911: Courtyard. That's what we al- that's when the guy showed us the house, he said this is the courtyard {NW} so that's what I've called it ever since. I guess that's, probably what most people would call that nowadays. Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about some a little room off the kitchen where you can store canned goods and extra dishes and things? 911: Hmm well in the kitchen what we had was a room called a pantry. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: That was just kind of a great big walk-in closet, put all the food in it and stuff like that. #1 That what you talking about? # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 911: Yeah I would call it just a pantry. Now you talking about English or Spanish? Interviewer: English. 911: Oh okay. Interviewer: And if you have a two-story house, to get from the first floor to the second floor, you have? 911: Stairs. Interviewer: What about from the porch to the ground? 911: Outside? Interviewer: Uh-huh 911: Steps. Interviewer: And you said you had a lot of old, worthless things like broken chairs and things like that. 911: Junk Interviewer: Okay. Where would you store things like that, if you didn't wanna throw them away? 911: Put it in the attic, if I had one. That's what my mother's got. #1 Goes in the attic. # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 911: Most houses down here nowadays don't have an attic, throw 'em in the garage {NW} 'til it fills up. Interviewer: Do you ever hear of a junk room or lumber room? 911: Oh yeah, junk room, we got one here on that sketch there. Well we did have we used to use that other bedroom over here and we'd call it a junk room. Interviewer: Uh-huh. 911: Odd pieces of furniture and stuff like that that we didn't have any place else to put, put in the junk room and now we had to use it for a bedroom so we haven't got a junk room anymore. Interviewer: Uh, the covering on the house is called a? 911: You mean roof? Interviewer: Uh-huh. What about the things along the edge of the roof to carry the water off? 911: Gutters? Interviewer: #1 How are they- # 911: #2 Or drain pipe, # Interviewer: #1 uh-huh # 911: #2 you could do both. # Interviewer: What's- What's the difference? 911: I don't know I guess uh {NS} I think going back, I think I first used to hear about it and talk about it, would call it a drain pipe {NS} I think little by little it became talked with same as gutters but I don't know where we picked it up from. Even when I was a kid and even further along I remember always calling it a drain pipe. Interviewer: Is it built on or does it hang from the roof {NS} or is it built? 911: You mean attached to? Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh. How- # 911: #2 {D:Oh now} your talking bout that thing around there? # That's dr- to me that- my wife calls that a gutter, more often than not. And I'll call it a drain pipe more often than a dra- than- maybe it's a different part of the country I don't know, but you would just come at me real quick and say what's that thing water's coming through, I would say the drain pipe. Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} What about when you have a house in an L, the place where they come together, that low place would be a? 911: Where they come together? Interviewer: #1 Uh-huh # 911: #2 In a house like this? # #1 I don't know what low place you're talking about # Interviewer: #2 {D: Well} d- do you ever hear of a valley or ally of a roof? # 911: Talking bout the gable? Interviewer: No the- #1 the place where the roofs join. # 911: #2 Like that lil- like up in there? # No. {NS} You gotta stand up and look and see if that's what your talking about right up there. Interviewer: #1 Nope. # 911: #2 Where they come in together? # Interviewer: #1 Yeah. # 911: #2 I don't know. # Interviewer: Okay so, 911: {NS} {D: want to turn that off and I pick-} Yeah it- {X} Huntsville Texas. Where'd my grandmother come from? She's born in Brownsville. born Yeah okay that's all just born in Brownsville. Uh where'd by grandfather {B} come from? He was born in Brownsville. And my grand- And my bo- all four like yeah okay. Yeah, well no don't go back to that. My grandfather {B} born in Brownsville and my grandmother was born in Brownsville and she was a {B} come with Zachary Taylor. Who? Well she was born there in Brownsville, that's all I need to know. Okay now my grandfather was a- one grandfather was an attorney. What'd my grandmother have? A high school education? Your mother. Well that's all, just has a high school education. Don't tell me all that. You gonna mess me up, she taught school with a high school education. Alight now my grandfather, {B}, he didn't have any college? Oh alright, he went to college in Spain. Well some kind of education in Spain. {NW} Well my grandfather {B} didn't have any college. My grandmother {B} Yeah Okay, that's all I need to know. Well I get 'em all confused. I had it down here pretty close you can see. Okay. Well I got my father's stuff all here and yours but she was wondering about the grandparents and I wasn't too sure. No, we don't need anymore than that. That's plenty. And somebody's trying to get of hold of me? Well, okay. Yeah. Yeah well pure stupid. Okay let me hang up here and take care of this young lady here. Alright bye. {NS} Oh I'll be right back. {NS} Huntsville. Interviewer: You- your grandfather. 911: That'd be my mothers, yeah my grandfather, {B} was born in Huntsville. Interviewer: #1 Huntsville Texas? # 911: #2 Yeah. # My grandmother was a {B} was born in Brownsville. Both of my grandparents on my father's side were born in Brownsville. And my grandfather on my father's side after he got far along here on his education they sent him back to Spain to finish it. Now she didn't know what type of education that. Told you she could tell me, but she was gonna elaborate on every point. I had to say no, just Interviewer: {NW}{NS} 911: Oh and my grandmother on my mother's side taught school {NS}. With a high school e-, yeah with a high school education. Can't do that anymore. 911: Let's see now you asked me something about where roofs come together. You talking bout a peak? Or did we get past that? Interviewer: Well, I was wondering if you'd heard of a valley or alley of a roof but- 911: An alley? Interviewer: I don't think they build that- 911: No. Interviewer: that kind of house around here. Did you ever live in a house um that had a fire place in it? 911: This one has, it's the only one I've ever lived in that had a fire- well no wait a minute. Well the house my mother lives in now had a fire place but we never used it and we tiled it in and fixed it up, just put a you know regular heater in it, didn't fool with the fireplace. This one's got a fire place but I'm too lazy to fool with the wood, so we don't use this one either. Interviewer: You know on the fire place, the thing that the smoke goes up through:Chimney. 911: Chimney Interviewer: Okay What about the open place on the floor in front of the fireplace? 911: Hearth- hearth? Hearth, how you pronounce it? Interviewer: #1 Which sounds more natural to you? # 911: #2 I don't know, I never use it. # hmm {NW} Hearth I guess {D: although I} you hit me with a good one there, I've never thought about that. Interviewer: What about- 911: I usually probably would say right in front of the fire place Interviewer: #1 What about- # 911: #2 that's {NW} # Interviewer: What about the things that you you lay the wood across on the? They're metal- 911: Yeah I know what you're talking about but I uh 911: What the andirons is that what they call 'em? Okay. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 911: Okay. Interviewer: And the thing up about the fireplace, the? 911: Mantle piece? Interviewer: Okay. And if you were gonna start a fire, what kind of wood would you use? 911: Around here? Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 911: Mesquite. Interviewer: What else? 911: What other kind of wood? Interviewer: Did you ever hear a name for the kind of wood you can use? 911: Firewood? Interviewer: Mm-hmm but for starting it? 911: No. Interviewer: #1 Do you ever hear of kindling- # 911: #2 Oh okay kindling, yeah # Interviewer: What is kindling? 911: Well it's a little bitty piece, what you mean, what kind of wood is it? Or what is it? mm Interviewer: Yeah what is it does it have to be one certain kind of wood or is it- 911: I don't know. That's why I've never fooled with a fireplace. Interviewer: {NS} Did you think of it as small pieces? 911: Small chips of wood that'll catch fire easier than the big ones. Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about taking a big piece of wood and setting that toward the back of the fireplace and maybe it would burn all night. You'd call that the? 911: What would I call a big piece of wood? Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 911: #2 I don't know. # Interviewer: Do you ever hear the expression of backlog or back stick? 911: Not used like that, no. Interviewer: But have you ever heard 911: Well I heard uh, I've heard the word backlog used in like in orders, in business. I've got a backlog of orders. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 911: #2 But I never heard it used in terms like we talking bout there in the fireplace. # Interviewer: What about um the black stuff that forms in the chimney? 911: Soot soot. Interviewer: Which- 911: Soot, I guess, yeah. Interviewer: And what you shovel out of the fireplace? 911: Ashes. Interviewer: And talk about things that you'd have in a room. The thing that I'm sitting in would be a? 911: Chair. Interviewer: What about something that two or three people could sit on? 911: A couch? Interviewer: #1 Okay. Any other names for that? # 911: #2 Sofa, divan. # Ones I'd use most would be couch and sofa. Interviewer: Is there any difference? 911: Not to me. Interviewer: #1 How about the word divan does that sound- # 911: #2 I never # use it much. I don't know it just couch and sofa are easier to say. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: I guess I use couch more than anything. Interviewer: What um about something- a little room off the bedroom where you can hang your clothes? 911: Closet. Interviewer: Okay. What about a uh- 911: Or a dressing room but closet I guess. Interviewer: And a place something that has drawers in it for keeping your clothes in? 911: Chest of drawers. Interviewer: Okay, anything else? 911: Or a dresser. Interviewer: Is there a difference? 911: Well you usually look at chest of drawers as maybe having six drawers in it and you know tall, no mirror. And a dresser to me has drawers in it and has a mirror on top. Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about something that you can hang your clothes up in that- that also has drawers maybe? 911: Oh yeah, I don't know what you'd call it. Uh. I know in the old days they had something, but I don't think this what you're talking about, they call it a high boy. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: But I don't think that's what you're talking about is it? Interviewer: What'd the high boy look like? 911: Well seems to me a high boy was just a big tall dresser, had a mirror on top of it and bunch of drawers. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: And a bi- little bitty mirror up at the top. Interviewer: What about the thing that- that had rod though for hanging clothes up in? 911: A closet? Interviewer: #1 Well- a piece of furniture. Uh-huh. # 911: #2 Or or a piece of furniture? A wardrobe? # Interviewer: Any other name for wardrobe? 911: Nah I can't think of it. Now you pop me with it and I might remember it but I always say- My grandparents had three four of them, they're great big things Interviewer: What- 911: They didn't have closets, they had these big pieces of furniture, must of been oh I guess you couldn't get 'em in these new houses. They must have been ten feet tall-eight or ten feet tall. They were wide they had doors and mirrors on the inside of the doors and we called them wardrobes. Interviewer: Mm-hmm #1 Do you ever hear of chiffonier or chiff- # 911: #2 Yeah. Yeah, okay, I told you if you'd say it, I'd remember it. # But uh, chiffonier I don't think, no, I don't know that we called those great big ones that {X} call those wardrobes. But I heard, you know, my grandparents and all that- haven't heard that in a long time, chiffonier, but the minute you said it I remembered it but I don't remember what piece of furniture exactly they used in connection with. Interviewer: Have you ever heard the term armor or armoire? 911: Yeah but let me think about it, let me think- think a minute what the armoire. Okay I got one in the other room. That's- or are you talking about something that's similar to wardrobe. This thing that I call an armoire 911: but {NS} Grandfather {B} graduated from Saint Joseph's academy in Brownsville and then went to Fordham University and then went to Spain and polished off his education and then {C: tape distortion} came back. So I guess he spoke pretty good English, I just didn't remember. And my grandmother {B} graduated from the convent here in Brownsville. It's not there anymore. Interviewer: Sounds like your mother really keeps up with- 911: Oh she's got it all. Tell you what, you want something on the old families round here, she's the one that can give it to you if you wanted that. Okay, you asked me about armoire. Interviewer: Uh-huh 911: Now it's got two doors that open up. It's about four or five- bout five feet across and the top has two doors you open up, it's got some drawers in there and two big open spaces at the top. {NS} And it's got one big drawer at the bottom that you don't have to open the doors to get to. Now that, I call an armoire. Interviewer: #1 Can you hang things up there? # 911: #2 No. # Interviewer: Uh-huh. {NS} {NS} And something on um, on rollers, that you can hang in a window and pull down to keep out the light 911: A shade. Interviewer: Okay. And a woman would say, if her house was in a big mess, you'd say she had to 911: Clean house. Interviewer: Okay, and the things that she could sweep with? 911: A broom. Interviewer: And if the broom was in the corner and the door was open so the door was sort of hiding the broom, you'd say the broom was? 911: Behind the door. Interviewer: And years ago, on Monday, when we would get the dirty clothes together and- 911: Wash day. Interviewer: Huh? 911: #1 Wash day. # Interviewer: #2 Okay, you say to do the- # 911: Laundry. Interviewer: Mm-hmm did people used to the use the word 'laundry' as much as they do now. 911: No I think you used to the use the word 'wash' more than laundry. I do the wash. {NS} Wash the clothes. Interviewer: Then after they washed them, they do the? 911: Ironing. Interviewer: {NS} There's a big black thing that people used to have a long time ago out in the yard to heat up water to boil the clothes in. 911: Well you going back before my time I hope I don't look that old. I guess maybe the call it a wash tub. Interviewer: Uh-huh You never saw one of those? Interviewer: {X} 911: that golf tournament they had some films of us winning it yesterday Interviewer: How long was that th- the two-day? 911: Three. Interviewer: #1 Three days- # 911: #2 Four, four. # Interviewer: Four days? 911: Mm One day of practice round, and three days of play. Interviewer: {NS} The one that was {NS} {D: the spectacle brought over} 911: Oh we played, we played one round in Brownsville. {C: tape distortion} They got three courses and we played on a different course everyday. {NW} Interviewer: Congratulations. 911: Thank you Interviewer: If you have um you know some houses have boards {NS} on the outside that lap over each other. 911: Siding. Interviewer: Okay. And if you wanted to heat up tea you heat up water to make hot tea and you heat it up in a? Interviewer: The thing that has the spout to it. 911: Yeah I just- the word, that what I'm gonna say I wanna say is a steam kettle. Thats- oh that's going back a ways. {NS} I guess they still call it that I don't know. I don't, we don't use it but I guess if I had to use it, I'd call it a {NW} steam kettle I guess. Interviewer: Do you ever hear that um that washtub called a kettle? 911: Yeah, a big black tub was referred to as a kettle. Interviewer: You never really saw anyone? 911: No you I think you're going you're a little bit further, little behind, going back a little far. Interviewer: What if the door was open and you didn't want it to be you'd ask someone to? 911: Close the door. Interviewer: Or another word you could use? 911: Shut the door. Interviewer: And were to hang up a picture, you'd take a nail and a? 911: Hammer. Interviewer: Say I took the hammer and I what the nail in? 911: Well there's a bunch of them {NW} Interviewer: Well you say, I got in my car and I what to town? 911: Drove to town. Interviewer: Okay. 911: That's what I was looking for, drove the nail or nailed it. What'd you do? I nailed a nail in the wall, nail it. Interviewer: {D: would-} you'd say um I've never what a car? 911: Wrecked. Interviewer: Or I've never? 911: Driven. Interviewer: Okay. You say he doesn't know how to? 911: Drive. Interviewer: {NW} And a little building that could be used for storing wood you call that a? 911: Woodshed. Interviewer: #1 What about a place for tools? # 911: #2 Toolshed. # Interviewer: And, before they had, indoor toilets the buildings they had out in the yard, they call the? 911: Well we call 'em lots of things but I guess mostly call it uh I guess most common I heard, and this you going way back too for me, but I guess you call it outdoor toilet or an outhouse. Interviewer: Any other terms, joking terms, or sort of crude terms people use? 911: {NW} out- outhouse, outdoor toilet. What do they call it a uh a um what'd they call it, Ms. Jones? Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 911: #2 That one of 'em? # I guess that's Interviewer: How does that sound to you? does that- sound kind of funny or did it- 911: Yeah I don't know where they'd ever get that from I don't remember ever using it now you I've never used one but uh, I guess most common name I heard put to it was outhouse. Interviewer: Mm-hmm have you ever been around a farm much? Did- #1 Did your parents ever raise # 911: #2 No. Well yeah we had about # five thousand acres. {NW} We didn't farm it, we had it far- you know leased out, {NW} but we o- had to oversee it. Interviewer: mm 911: But there weren't buildings on it or anything like that we didn't live out there we just go out my granddaddy used to go out and check on it and then after awhile, {NW} my father did it. Interviewer: Have you ever been interested in ranching yourself? 911: No not as such, I thought at one time I thought that I wouldn't mind trying to farm a piece of land but uh I never did get interested enough in it to do it. Interviewer: Mm-hmm There's on a farm that the big building where you could store hay in? 911: A barn. Interviewer: Okay. What about the upper part of the barn where you can keep the hay? 911: The loft? Interviewer: Okay. And, this is going back before your time, but um a long time ago before they um bailed the hay when they they cut the hay and they let it {D:lie out} in the field and dry 911: mm Interviewer: and they'd rake it up into small piles. Did you ever hear a name for those small piles they'd rake up? 911: Well the only word I can think of and I don't know if this what they call it or not, it'd be bundles. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: Don't know that they ever used it uh I know what you're talking about but I don't know, if that's not the right word I guess that what's I call it, unless there's a name for it and I don't know it. Interviewer: What about a- a way of keeping hay outside if you didn't had- if you had too much to put in the barn you can leave it outside and 911: I don't know. Interviewer: Did you ever see something that would be- they'd put pole on the ground and then have it up like that? {NS} Did you ever hear of a stack or rick or mow of hay? 911: Mm-mm Interviewer: And if you cut the hay off a piece of land and enough grows back the same year, so you can cut it again. You'd call that a? 911: {NW} Uh {NW} {NS} yup You- I know what you're talking about but I can't think of the word. Well uh- we do it with grain sometime we call it that going back and doing the second cutting. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: The second, the second mowing or second cutting. Interviewer: Mm-hmm What kind of grain is is grown around here? 911: Uh, mostly sorghum. Interviewer: Um What use? 911: For feed. Cattle feed. Interviewer: Mm-hmm And a building where you can store corn would be called a 911: Well there aren't any of them around here but I think you're talking about a silo aren't you? Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you ever hear of a crib or a corn barn or a corn house? 911: Uh-uh. Interviewer: What about a place for grain? 911: Well I guess maybe I was wrong. Maybe a silo would be a place for grain no? Interviewer: Mm-hmm Do you ever use the term grainery or granary? 911: Mm well I've heard but I've never used it, I never uh Interviewer: What did you hear it called? 911: Well I've heard the word you used there, grainery or whatever. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: But I don't even know what I have no idea what it would be. Whether that's where you take it or that's where you store it or what. I don't know, I never fooled with it that much. Interviewer: You wouldn't know what it looks like or anything? 911: No {NS} Interviewer: And uh what different animals would there be on a farm? 911: Down here? Interviewer: Yeah. 911: Mostly cows pigs chickens, and goats. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Where would the cows be kept? 911: Usually in the barn if you're lucky. A lot of cows down here just left loose with a little covered shelter there's just not a whole lot of- mostly down here there's not that you know big of heard of cows as to have barns keep uh a few cows {NW} {D: usually got} just whole bunch of them and just turn them loose. There aren't in this {NS} that I know of down here, there just aren't these great big barns and you have you know ten, twelve, fifteen cows in there. I don't know of any. Interviewer: {NS} Where-why not? {D: um} {X} Where? 911: Well I think, like I say, usually the ones that come to my mind that got anywhere from a hundred cows on up Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: and uh, just not any barns that size. Interviewer: What about a the covered shelters that you mentioned, any special name for that? 911: Well let's see. {NW} Oh feeding pen, something like that, it's just a long trough with food and water in it, stuff like that, it's got a little cover over it. Really won't give 'em any shelter if it's raining or something like that usually just to cover up food and water. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Where are pigs kept? 911: In uh, let me see, pigsty? Or pen. Yeah I guess down here I'd usually call it a pig pen. Interviewer: Mm-hmm {NS} what about chickens? 911: In a hen house. Interviewer: Mm-hmm #1 Any other place? # 911: #2 Or coop, # chicken coop. Interviewer: What does that look like? 911: Well I I guess just mostly ones I remember had uh {NS} mostly wire on all some of 'em had wood on one side if it's built up against something and then wire on three sides. And saw of them that had a roof and just wire all the way around, no floor. Interviewer: Mm-hmm Where- What were they used for? To keep just all the chickens in there or- 911: Yeah, they're laying hens. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. What about a hen on a nest of eggs? She'd be called a? 911: She'd be called a hen. Laying hen. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. Do you ever hear of setting hen or brooder hen? 911: I've heard of brooder hen but I don't know what it means. {NW} Interviewer: What about um when you're eating chickens, a bone like this? 911: The breast. Interviewer: Well the- 911: Oh that bone? #1 Wish # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh # 911: bone. Interviewer: #1 Any stories about that? Or- # 911: #2 Well you # somebody grab a hold of each end of it and whoever gets the {NS} the long piece when it snap will tell the wish come true. Interviewer: Does that work? 911: Well I guess I've done it a few times, but I don't ever remember it happening. Interviewer: {NW} If you wanted to make a hen start laying, what could you put in the nest to fool her? 911: I don't know. Interviewer: Well say if you had a good set of dishes, your dishes would be made out of? 911: China. Interviewer: What about an egg made out of that? 911: Well I guess, I guess you're you're saying that she could take a china egg and put it in the nest, fool the hen. Maybe so, I I don't know about it. Interviewer: You never heard of that? 911: No. Interviewer: And the animals that people ride, they call those? 911: Horses. Interviewer: Where do they keep them? 911: {X} Well, I- here again I'd go back to just about the same thing as well in a barn. But here we go back to the same thing mostly as the cows, they mostly run loose Interviewer: Mm-hmm.{D: just in} 911: pastures. Interviewer: What about a- a fenced-in place around the barn where animals can walk around? 911: Corral? Interviewer: Do you ever hear another name for that? Like barnyard or cow lot? 911: Barn yard, yeah. Uh, barn yard. Interviewer: What's the difference? 911: Well I always look at a corral as a fenced-in place, not really too big. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: Barn yard, to- to me always meant uh well it could be a fairly good sized area all around say the house and the barn with chickens running around, and smaller animals. And corral to me was always a fenced place. Interviewer: Was it around the barn? the corral? 911: Uh-huh Interviewer: What about a fenced-in place out in the pasture where you could leave the cows overnight for milking? 911: Now you got me there, I don't know. Interviewer: Do you ever hear of a milk gap or a cow pen? 911: No. Interviewer: And if you have a- a lot of uh a place that has a lot of milk cows and they sell the milk and butter, they call that a? 911: Dairy. Interviewer: Do you ever hear of the word dairy used to mean anything else besides a commercial farm like that? 911: I don't think so. Interviewer: Do you ever hear people talk about how they used to keep milk and butter before they had refrigeration? 911: Yeah milk and butter what I can't remember, I kno- uh I've heard it, in the old days how they kept the stuff from spoiling, but I don't remember. Interviewer: Do you ever hear of people storing potatoes or turnips during the winter. 911: You mean in- here we're in the old days huh? Interviewer: Uh-huh. 911: Uh yeah I guess. I don't know what you're looking for here. Interviewer: Do you ever hear of a potato bank or a potato {D: pup} 911: No. Interviewer: And if you wanted to break up the um ground for planting, you'd break it up with a? 911: Plow. Interviewer: Were they different kinds of plows? 911: Well uh I don't remember the kind that's usually pulled with a horse. As far back as I can remember, they've always been mechanical. I guess a different type- you talking about different type attachments to it Interviewer: #1 mm-hmm # 911: #2 disks # and things like that Interviewer: What about something that has a lot of teeth in it and break up the- the clogs of dirt. 911: Yeah, but I don't remember. #1 If you tell me, I'll remember but I can't call the word. # Interviewer: #2 Did you ever hear of a harrow or harrow? # 911: Probably, but it doesn't #1 but uh # Interviewer: #2 Which- # #1 Which have you heard it called? # 911: #2 I guess a harrow. Harrow rang a bell. # Interviewer: Mm-hmm you- not sure what it looks like though? {NS} 911: {NS} Well it's probably a thing with teeth that you use to break up the ground. But I'm not sure, no. Interviewer: #1 {NS}When you're plowing, the trenches that are cut by the plow you call- # 911: #2 {D: You talk-} # Rows? #1 Or a- # Interviewer: #2 What? # Huh? 911: A row? Interviewer: Or another name? 911: Um Interviewer: What about the fur- 911: Furrow. Interviewer: Uh-huh {NW} When you're {NS} plowing with two horses, uh did you ever hear the name of the one that walks in the furrow? 911: No. Interviewer: And {NS} Say if um if you were raising cotton, you'd say you raised a big? 911: {NS} Crop? Interviewer: Okay. {NS} And {NS}cotton would grow out in a? 911: Field. Interviewer: What if you were {NS} growing something though {NS} #1 well just a little something like {NS}sweet potatoes, {NS} you wouldn't call it a field they were growing in # 911: #2 Garden. # Interviewer: Okay. Do you ever hear of a patch or a lot? 911: I've heard of patch, yeah. Interviewer: What'd you think of a patch as? 911: Well it's just small. {NS} Kind of a small area, potato {NS} patch or {NS} vegetable patch {NS} something like that I usually ordinarily I'd think of that somebody might have a big house or a big yard and it'd grow at the backyard, just #1 be a small like a # Interviewer: #2 mm-hmm # 911: #1 {NS} ha- garden {NS} around the house. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: When you're raising cotton um you know you have to go out and take a ho and sort of thin the cotton out what do you say you're doing? 911: Well there's {NS} #1 a couple {NS} of words there, weeding {NS}is one. # Interviewer: #2 Mm-hmm # 911: {NS} Uh {NS} {NS} I guess I've always called it or thought of it as just weeding through weeding out the cotton. Interviewer: Do {NS} you ever hear the expression chop cotton or scrape cotton? 911: I heard chop cotton. Interviewer: What is that? 911: I don't know. I've heard it used they talk about go out there and chop the cotton. I don't know if that's the same thing as taking the leaves off of it or not I would call it defoliating Interviewer: Mm-hmm How's it done? 911: Now they do it plain {NS} Just like dusting it for insects, it dusts the stuff over and it burns off the leaves. Interviewer: Does your uh- do your father's family had land? 911: #1 Mm-hmm # Interviewer: #2 Do they still? # Have the land? 911: Got very little. Most of the land that we had are where those country club's are being built now. Golf courses. Interviewer: So no one does anymore ranching or- 911: No. We've got about eight or nine hundred acres twenty miles up the river road and a guy farms it and just we get a I think it's a fourth of whatever he gets off the crops. Interviewer: What does he raise? Uh grain and cotton. Mm-hmm 911: I don't know whether he does- he used to do some vegetables- I don't know whether or not he does anymore. If he did, it'd be tomatoes Interviewer: Mm-hmm what kinds of grass grow up in the cotton field? that you don't water? 911: Johnson grass? Interviewer: Mm-hmm Anything else? 911: Just call 'em weeds, I don't know if there's another particular name for it or not. Interviewer: Mm-hmm And what kinds of fences uh do people used to have or would they have now? 911: Barbed wire. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: Barbed wire, or barb wire. Interviewer: {NW} which do you call it? 911: Oh I kind of slur it around. I guess barbed wire mostly. Interviewer: When you're setting up a barbed wire fence, you have to dig holes for the? 911: Posts. Interviewer: Okay. You'd- take the wire and nail it to a? 911: To the post? Interviewer: Okay. Just one of those, you'd call it one? 911: One post? Interviewer: And what about uh a fence that a wooden fence you could see around someone's yard that maybe came up pointed sort of? 911: Picket fence. Interviewer: Okay. Are they woven together or nailed? 911: Mm I think mo- {NW} the old days you'd see more put together with wire. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm # 911: #2 They were wired together, # strand of wire at the top and one down close to the bottom. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 911: Uh see now you see a lot of 'em different style, not the same as picket fences I used to see as a kid, now they're they're higher and the pickets are wider and they usually nailed on to uh two-by-fours. Interviewer: #1 Mm-hmm. # 911: #2 But I don't see any that are red picket fences anymore like I did years back. # Interviewer: Did you ever see a a fence that would go-made of boards- that'd go in and out like this? 911: Kinda woven together? Interviewer: Uh-huh. 911: Out of cedar Interviewer: What was that called? 911: I don't know, I'd just call it- I don't know what I'd call it. Uh I think somebody called it once, kind of like a basket weave or something like that {NS} Interviewer: Did you ever hear of a rail {NS} fence or a chain fence or- or a stake and rider fence? Does that- 911: #1 Chain, out of that wood? # Interviewer: #2 Uh-huh. # 911: No, to me a chain fence is that you know that metal stuff, some people call 'em hurricane fences Interviewer: Mm-hmm What about a fence or wall made out of loose stone or rock? 911: Brick wall? No, not a brick wall. You talking about stone? Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: I don't know. Interviewer: You never saw one like that? 911: I don't think so. Interviewer: And something you'd use to carry water in? 911: Bucket. Interviewer: Okay, what's that made out of? 911: Tin. Interviewer: What about something similar to that made out of wood? You'd call it a? 911: Well I guess, I'd probably still call it a bucket. I guess {NS} {D: used to} call it a pail uh? Maybe they still do. I'd just probably call it a bucket. Interviewer: What's the difference to you between a bucket and a pail? 911: Uh I guess if sat down and defined it, and wanted to use as what you'd call proper, you'd call the wooden one the bucket and the metal one the pail uh. Interviewer: Mm-hmm. 911: I'd probably call them both buckets. {NW} Interviewer: What about the thing that people carry food to the pigs in? 911: {NW} I don't know, I've never done it. {NS} Interviewer: Did you ever hear of a slop bucket or swill pail or? 911: Swill pail probably. #1 But I never been around pigs {NW} {NS} that much {NS}. # Interviewer: #2 And something you'd fry eggs, you'd call? # 911: Frying pan. Interviewer: Any other name for that? 911: Skillet. Interviewer: What's the difference? 911: Well to me it's pretty much the same thing. Here again I go back to uh My wife would call it a skillet more often than anything else, I call it a frying pan. Interviewer: Mm-hmm 911: To me it's the same thing. Interviewer: The thing you put flowers in, if you cut some flowers. 911: A vase. Interviewer: What about if they were growing in the house? 911: A pot. Interviewer: Okay. And if you were setting the table the eating utensils, you'd give everyone? 911: Which- Which utensils? Interviewer: Uh-huh. 911: Knife and a fork and a spoon Interviewer: And if you served steak and it wasn't very tender, steak? 911: Steak knife. Interviewer: Or several steak? 911: Steak knives. Interviewer: Okay. And if the dishes were dirty, you'd say you have to go? 911: Wash the dishes. Interviewer: And you say, after she washes the dishes, then she? 911: Drys 'em. With clear water-