Interview:16 July, 2002 Initial Transcript: August 6, 2002-August 15, 2002 Sandy Point, St. Kitts Lee Pederson: (P: prompter) Glennis XXX (R: primary respondant) Carlton XXX, driver (S: secondary respondant) G(A): Grunt, affirmation G(N): Grunt, negation G(Q): Grunt, question, (Is that right?(; (You don(t say( G(V) Grunt, seeking verification. (Say what?( U(C): Utterance, cough U(F): Utterance, false start U(H): Utterance, hesitation U(I): Utterance, interruption U(L): Utterance, laughter U(M) Utterance muffled, inaudible. ( ) Deleted phoneme, word, or phrase R: XXX P: What the first name? R: Glennis P: Glennis, how do you spell that? R: G-L-E-N P: Yeah. R: N-I-S P: G(A). R: XXX P: Did you get that last name? S: Yeah, XXX. P: XXX. U(L). OK. And what(s then name of this town, where you live? R: Sandy Point. P: This is Sandy Point? R: Yeah P: This isn(t Fig Tree? R: No Fig Tree a little down there. P: How far down is that? R: He drive you down there. P: OK. Just a few blocks down there? R: Beg pardon. P: It(s just a little ways down? R: Yeah. P: G(A). OK. And where were you born? R: My what? P: Where were you born? R: U(F). St. Kitts. Sandy Point. Sandy Point. The Ghut, the Ghut, the Ghut. It(s a U(M: three syllables], it(s right there too. P: OK. And how old are you? R: Sixty-seven. P: Sixty-seven. R: Yes, sir. P: And what kind of work did you do? R: Fisherman. P:Fisherman, Oh, I see, great. And how about school? R: School? P: Yeah. R: Yeah, I used to go school. P: G(A). R: But after my eye get bad. P: G(A). R: The doctor stop me from school. P: G(A) How far did you go in school? Do you remember how many years? R: We four standard. P: I see. OK. Now tell me about your parents. R: Me parents? P: Yeah. R: My mother and my father, all of them die. P: Where were they born? R: In Sandy Point. P: G(A). And what was your mother(s name, he family name? R: Evangeline XXX. Evangeline XXX, but she married and she become Evangeline XXX. P: OK, And where was your father born. R: Yeah, he born Crab Hill. P: G(A). Crab Hill? R: Crab Hill just up here. P: Is that really part of Sandy Point? R: Yes, sir. P: Part of Sandy Point. OK. R: There(s a church up here. P: OK. How about your grandparents. R: Well, I don(t so much them. P: Don(t know any of them? R: I know one, I know one, that(s me grandmother. P: OK. What(s her name? R: Mrs. XXX. P: Mrs. XXX. Was she born in Sandy Point? R: She born Fig Tree. P: Fig Tree, I see. OK. Do you have an children? Are you married? R: No sir. P: Never married. R: No sir. P: Have you been off the island much, apart from fishing? R: Not exactly. I go (Eu)statius, trying to look at gar and ballyhoo, but we don(t go over but for gar. P: G(A). R: I go Montserrat. P: Have you been anyplace else? R: St. Eustatius and St, Martin(s, catch ballyhoo along there. P: Were you just there for a short time? R: About a week, about a week or two. P: G(A). R: Going and coming, like we going today. P: Where are you going today? R Not today, like go to St.. Martin(s until Thursday and come back Friday. [interview conducted on Tuesday]. P: Oh, I see. 042 R: I was sailing in a little sloop. We took people too. P: Oh, was he running a ferry? S: Yes. P: G(A). S: With a motor on it. P: Oh, with a motor. How long did it take to get over there? R: About four hours. P: Is that right. Gee whiz. OK. All right. Will you tell me some about fishing. Tell something about your experiences as a fisherman. R: Well, I be a fisherman by name and by nature, but I work mostly with nets, with nets. P: I know nets, sure. R: That time I work with number ten, number ten thread, but nowadays they got something stronger. P: G(A). R: And lasts longer, nylon, comes from Japan, England, around there. P: Did you ever make nets? R: No. I help build them. P: Build them, G(V)? R: They had meshiers to make the mesh. P: Make the mesh. Now how do you build them. R: Well, join them up. P: You(re not putting them together, just the pieces. R: Yeah, in depth. P: Oh, that(s where they do it in depth. R: Yes. We start from two fathom and a half until we reach to eight. P: I see. Tell me about the fishing itself. Once you had the nets, tell me about how you go about the process of fishing. R: Well, right now, I don(t go fishing now, but I give a little history of when I was, when we used to go with the gentleman he uncle, we used to go. P: G(A). That would be great. R: And we had some trash out the cane field. R: Yeah. R: And we tell to send this box and cut them in pieces, throw them out P: G(A). R: And we tell the family to go leave for market. And the gars and ballyhoos comes and play. P: G(A). I see. R: He probably tell you when you was up there yesterday, and we rolled them up. P: What do you call that when you put that? R: The net P: Yeah, I know, when you put the net around them, though, don(t you have a name for that when you circle it like that? R: Well, we circle them, we circle them. P: Yeah. R: And we getting ready to haul, one man up top, one in the center upon the oar, and three(one for the footline and two for the corkline. P: I see. R: So the five of us in the boat, all, everybody got their own work to do. P: G(A). Do they call that a shoot? R: Yes, shoot, shoot round them and buckle them up. P: G(A). I see. R: And we put the pole to the right, the left side. P: G(A). R: Then at a certain time, we haul in the cork. in the cork, in the cork, in the cork, in the cork in.. P: G(A). U(L). R: And when the deep, the shallowest part going in the water all the time P: G(A). R: Until the deep part, when we do the deep part, moving it around the other side, P: G(A). R: Put it in the crutch. P: G(A). R: And the gentleman whatever stand the oar. P: G(A). R: He got the cork in P: U(G). R: And he going to fish then. P: G(A). R: And he up there forward.. He watching and he telling what to do with the oar. P: OK. R: And how to wheel in. P: So you(ve got to bring them in. R: They(re going to draft. P: Yeah. R: And when they(re going to draft a netting. P: G(A). R: You know, like a purse, so then they(re going, got to come out. P: Yeah. R: And we haul and we haul and we haul and we haul until nearly everything come up. P: G(A). R: And the guy on the end of the draft P: G(A). R: Turn to, got turn go through the corkline. P: U(G) Ok. What about that line? Why do you U(I). R: Well, then, two or three men cut them, cut them in pieces. P: U(G). R: Sometime two U(M). One mesh and tool. Some we only make one shoot. Or three shoots. P: G(A). R: Just depends on the catch. P: Yeah, I see. Yeah. R: Cause if the next three shoot according the catch, maybe two shoots are in the boat. P: Yeah. R: And maybe three in the boat to bring it. P: I see. Is three the most you ever do? Do you ever do four shoots? R: Four? P: Yeah. R: Sometimes I use one. P: Yeah, I know, one, yeah if you fill the whole boat up with one. 087 R: U(L). P: With one netful, G(V)? R: But otherwise to that. And we work with stone to stone them through the net too. P: Oh, yeah? Tell me about that. R: When caught and want to come out, we stone them back in. P: G(A). Go ahead. Tell me about that. R: You find one man a mind on that; he still a mind up here. P: G(A). R: Until U(F) the two part of the net come to the water. P: G(A). R: So then we stop. P: I see. Do you ever do more than one shoot a day? I mean more than one boatload a day, did you ever go back out again? R: No. P: Just one. R: Oh, yes, sometime you come in the morning. P: G(A). R: Just relish[?]. We had of shad and we boat in a boat with the, like our U(M) P: G(A). R: And we come in a boat four to five. P: I see. R: Time we get sellers from country, and we get ballyhoo or gar in the afternoon. We come in around twelve o(clock or one o(clock.. P: Yeah. G(A). R: Then we share for the net, and we share for the men then, so every man had their own seller. P: G(A). R: But my mother, I had to tell her too, but my mother ought to sell most of mine. P: Oh, really. R: Yes, yes, yes, so had no problem with mine. P: That was wonderful. R: But after she pass away, after me mother pass away, I had a woman named Mary XXX, then Edie, she live right there, next to me mother, and Mary XXX take over. P: G(A). R: Then after she dead, I sell the fish myself. P: I see. U(F) How did your mother sell the fish? Did se have like a store, a shop? R: No, no, no. She walk through the village, on her head. P: T o walk through the village with a basket on her head? R: With a basket, with a basket. P: With the fish G(V)? Is that right. But that was pretty nice though. To have your mother doing that for you. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, My mother was only a penny, two pennies for five ballyhoo. P: G(A). R: Two pence. P: G(A). Was ballyhoo the main fish that you caught. R: Yes. Some gars. . P: G(A). And what else? R: Jacks. P: G(A). R: Bonita. P: G(A). R: Snuke. P: G(A). R: Sprat P: A lot of sprat, G(V)? R: Or bally. P: G(a). Sprat, and ballyhoo is just bigger than a sprat. R: About that size S: Sprat(s about the same as a sardine. P: Sardine, G(V)? R: Yeah. UL). P: But a ballyhoo(s bigger. S: Yeah. R: Yes. P: But a ballyhoo(s bigger than a sprat. R: Well, right now a boat out. P: G(A). The net, though, it must have been a pretty fine mesh to catch things as small as sprat. R: Well, well, they don(t string as much in the mesh as them. P: G(A). R: Unless a big fish , as you go aboard, you got to go aboard to knock one over the string. P: Yeah R: Part of the mesh, after they pass through the mesh, and they get within this or so, they too U(M). They dead. P: I see. Well, I(d like to come back and talk some more about fishing, but go back to a talk about your trips to St. Eustatius and to St. Martins. Tell me what you did there. R: Well, the same thing. P: Fishing? R: Fishing around the yacht, when the yacht be in the morning, in time for breakfast. P: G(A). R: U(F) They want to eat and leave and they them throw overboard. P: G(A). R: And the food in the water. P: G(A). R: And the ballyhoo, them big ballyhoo. P: Yeah. R: To go (be)come a kilo. P: G(A). R: A kilo, you know what call a kilo. P: G(A). R: Sometime we get one shoot . P: G(A). R: And got to go in to the market, come back market. P: G(A). At St. Martins R: St. Martins P: St. Martins, so you were fishing. R: Or St. Bart, want us to come down to buy, to fish in, on the line. P: I see. So you fished off these islands and then you went into the villages and went into the towns on the islands. R: Yes, sir. P: So did you sell the fish yourself or did you find somebody? R: Sell them right to the boat. P: Right off the boat? R: Yes. Sometime you find one would come in, (You want one kilo?( P: G(A). R: Another one come behind it, (You want fifty.( P: G(A). R: Another one call for pound, call for a kilo. P: A kilo? R: Yes. P: A kilo of fish, you mean? R: Yeah. P: You sell them by the kilo. U(L). R: Yes, by the kilo. P: U(L). OK. R: A big fish. P: Like marijuana. U(L). R: But you know P: Ganja. U(L). R: But over the counter, they call them pound. P: Pound, yeah. R: See, (be)cause those boat along there, U(M: heavy ano?) pier one. P: G(A). R: Dutch, Dutch, and French. P: I see. R: They call them kilo. P: G(A). Yeah, right. R: I don(t know what you call them over in England. P: Yeah. R: U(L). The same thing. P: Yeah, right. Was there any difference between two islands or were they pretty much the same? Was business just as good at one place as another?. R: Well, sometime. P: G(A). R: Sometime. P: Did you ever have any troubles? R: No. P: No. R: No trouble at all. P: You can(t tell me any experiences you had at St. Martin(s that were interesting or U(I). R: No, not exactly trouble. P: Well, tell me what though R: It was the clearance. P: OK R: What you take to England and we spent three or four days, ands they give us a clearance to the police chief and they check of we. And we spend most three or four days. P: I see. R: And when we go down to St. Eustatius we work from our net from our pier, and they give us priority. P: I see. R: Four time we go down there and legally. P: G(A). R: But since the government change P: Yeah.. R: They(re out down there already, ten of us. P: Sure. R: Ten of us they lock up down there. P: OK R: What are in prison. P: Is that right? R: Yeah, say the boat ain(t come in the water. P: Did they put you in prison? R: Yes, ten of us. P: For how long? R: A day. P: A day, one day in prison, G(V). R: Yeah, and he uncle. P:Oh, yeah, his uncle. R: He uncle had a crew, and we had a crew. Lofton was there too. P: G(A). How long ago was that? R: U(L). A long time. P: A long time ago, G(V). R: I work nearly twenty years now. P: G(A). R: Because I am sixty-seven P: OK. So it was in the forties probably, in the fifties.. R: No, the fifties. P: In the fifties or sixties. R: In the fifties, no. I didn(t know. P: Yeah. Well, how did you get out of prison? How did you get out of jail. R: They send out the ten of we, but they kept one, one the boat.. P: G(A). They kept one boat, G(V)?. R: One the boat. P: G(A). R: They send the ten of we with the uncle what die. P: G(A). R: I come about seventy nine, full of U(M) P: Yeah. Did they give the boat back after you paid a fine? R: Yes, yes, yes. P: You paid a fine G(V)? R: Yeah, you paid a fine with the charges. P: And the problem was you hadn(t gotten clearance to fish? R: No, no, no, sir. But we always chartered down there. P: G(A). R: They(re not up. We used go there and get them. P: G(A). R: But since the government changed. P: G(A) R: They U(M) of us. P: G(A). I see. So then it was all right. R: No, we had to pay something, otherwise you couldn(t get a boat P: G(A). R: It(s along there still. P: G(A). You got your boat back, R: Yeah, yeah. P: You got your boat back. U(F) Now tell me some things, if you can remember, about your childhood, when you were little. R: Well, we hauled in those days with oxen U(M). It was U(M) then. One of our schooldays our schooldays was a happy days. P: Yeah. R: Because every just about was Wednesday. P: G(A). R: You find me, U(M: St Chapel, it in room and, it in church), so every Wednesday morning we have to march. . P: Yeah. R: And go to school. P: G(A). R: And go to prayers. P: G(A). R: You couldn(t left me, me line, me class when me marching U(M: intelligible) P: G(A). R: And come in, you(re late. P: G(A). R: You got to get the school gate. P: What did you do in the woods? R: In the mountain? P: G(A). In the mountains. R: Yes. P: G(A). R: Me would have Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday. P: G(A) R: Otherwise, the watchman any other day. P: G(A). R: You sleeping. P: G(A). R: The watchman tell the rest of them, put down your wood and go down, go home. P: G(A). I see. I see. Do you remember U(I)? R: But they just leave to go on Monday, Wednesday, and Saturday. P: Yeah. G(A). R: U(M: You just pick it as you like it). P: G(A). Do you remember any of the games you played when you were little. R: Yeah, bingo, pepper. P: Tell me about them. Yeah. How did you play pepper. R: Take a card. P: Pepper(s a card game? R: Yes. P: A card game. R: Casino, all for one. P: Casino, yeah. R: Pitch one. P: G(A). R: Pick and pot to licks. P: G(A). R: Opium, P: Tell me how you play some of those games. R Well the opium. P: G(A). R: You spin it. P: Yeah. R: Be come up too. You put in two. P: G(A). R: Don(t carry no tarnica. P: G(A). R: Don(t play money too, you know. P: No, just R: We dig a hole in the P: Oh, this is like a top. R: Like a top. P: Yeah. R: So we spin it . P: Yeah. R: With our hand. P: And the cherries like a cashew, right. R: And anything you drop on. P: Yeah. R: You put it in; if it say (all,( if it come up (all,( right on there, all of them P: G(A). R: If you say (half,( it(s only two thing, you know, (half,( (all,( and (put(. P: And also (nothing,( right? Isn(t it also (N(? F: Put. P:G(A). R: If you took two cent, you put in. If you took quarter, you put it in. If you took the pound you put the pound.. P: Right. R: I can almost see it. P: Yeah. But I thought there was another one that said (N.( An (N( meant you didn;t put anything in. R: Yes, yes. P: Isn(t that right? R: Well if that come up (All,( U(F) you put all; if you come all, comes a hundred pound or a thousand pound. P: G(A). Everything you have there. R: Yeah. P: Everything you have there, I see. R: Yeah. P: U(F). Did you play any ball games? R: Yes, sir. P: Tell me about them. R: Right here, sir. P: Yeah. R: Bean ball. P: Yeah. R: Hard ball. P: Now was hardball U(I). R: Hard ball wouldn(t play with now. P: G(A). R: One time I was behind the stump. P: Yeah. R: I could remember, and a hard ball bust me right over here. P: Is that right. R: Right over here, catch stitches. P: Is that right. Is that what happened to your eye? R: No, sir, no, sir. P: G(A). R: Caught it with a piece of wood one day underneath. P: Oh, I see. R: Not from the ball. They say no more, from nineteen sixty-seven. P: I see. R: That(s what happened to me right here in the old, old, old. P: Is that right. R: Till U(M) give me that there, P: And so. Go ahead. R: So the ball knocked me. P: G(A). R: Used to challenge Fig Tree. P: Yeah. R: Just up the West Indies with South Africa. P: G(A). R: Used to challenge Fig Tree, then Crab; Crab against the Ghut, you know. P: G(A). R: Try to get up a Carlton with the Ghut, he could tell you. P: Yeah. R: Sometime we play on Sunday. P: G(A). So those were U(I). R: See this, sir. P: G(A). R: See the white there? P: Yeah. R: White here, white there. S: See them come down with ball, knock it. P: G(A). R: All over, yeah. P: G(A). R: All over the Ghut. P: G(A). R: You could run down the Ghut, you know, run.. P: So you played windball, that was windball cricket. R: Yes, sir. P: Windball cricket, yeah, ok. But you(d play, like Crab Hill and Fig Tree. R: Yeah had most all our matches, all our matches. P: Were those the only three neighborhoods. R: And Newton Ground. P: Newton Ground, ok. R: Yeah. You take Crab Hill against Newton Ground. P: G(A). R: Sometime Newton Ground come in and Sandy Point go over. P: I see. Did they do that every, how often did they play? R: And I pitch marble in the phone yard up here, nickel and cherry nut. P: Now cherry nut, that(s the cashew. R: The cherry. P: OK, right. Tell me about the marble playing. R: Well, we make a big ring. P: G(A). R: And the two or three or five or four us. P: G(A). R: Just the U(M: two syllables) of them P: G (A). R: Just have to them pan up, nickels or cherry nut. P: G(A). R: And when you have twelve of we, going to pitch a hell of a big ring, bigger than P: G(A). R: So you(ll find twelve of we, the ring sting on sting on them. P: G(A). R: Eight a piece. P: G(A). R: Marble. And when they go sock it. P: G(A). R: And if you go over the line, you come last. P: G(AQ). R: Well, you got then go over. P: Yeah. R: Come first. P: G(A). R: First, second, and third. P: G(A). R: U(L). You come last. P: G(A). R: So used to had a good time, a wonderful time. P: Yeah. R: With all that small there. P: Yes, it sounds like it. R: But in school now. P: School wasn(t fun U(L)? R: School was it. P: Was it? So you enjoyed U(I). R: Every class. P: Yes. R: We had from first to seven P: Yes. R: That time, school was up the alley. P: G(A). R: With a man the call Mr. XXX. P: G(A). R: He was a very strict man. P: Yeah, tell me about him. R: I could go on to him. P: G(A). R: He was a very strict man. P: G(A). R: Each class had a garden. P: G(A). R: And you mean first, I cannot be found in you garden, we second, you know.. P: G(A). R: Otherwise, mixed in the back side, beg your pardon, sir. P: G(A). R: You would have his truck U(L). P: Is that right. R: You have no garden in there. P: G(A). R: Whether to look or to steal or what, every class. You look after your one garden yourself. P: G(A). R: And you find, when recess. P: G(A). R: We going also they go play. P: G(A). R: Until we hear ting-ling-ling. P:.G(A). R: The bell. You got to run. P: G(A). R: And get the line. P: U(F) Were there regular gardens. Did you? R: Well, in my days. P: Yeah. R: I don(t know for now. P: G(A). R: In my days when I used to go. P: G(A). R: They used to give us lunch. P: G(A). R: In here, the girls would give lunch. They used to go to school too. P: G(A). I see. R: But it was hard to pay a penny. P: G(A). For lunch? U(L). R: For lunch. P: That(s pretty good. R: But you learn to go eat it often, (two syllables) used to pay a lady up the alley and a lady in the Ghut here. P: G(A). What did they give you for lunch? R: Every other meal change. P: G(A). I see. R: Evry one you get change. And we had breakfast in the yard too. We had two breakfast thing. But don(t talk. P: G(A). R: If a mango drop, you teacher, (be)lieve it belong to school and (U:M three syllables). P: G(A). R: See, do you, so? P: U(L). R: And if one drop, you can undertstand, he take it up in the school and put it where he could start going he house. P: G(A). R: Through the jealousy, the man, see, he want mango, you pick up in the yard, you know. P: G(A). R: And if your temper, white one. G: (A). R: Before you put them there. P: G(A). R: On the ledge. P: G(A). R: It steal from you P: Is that right. R: So if you steal mango, fall off of those two tree, P: G(A) R: Do not eat none. P: G(A). R: Put them two there till the school call in. P: G(A). R: School call in, U(L), you see of them. They work with the knife. P: G(A). R: They start piece. P: G(A). R: Piece, piece, piece, piece, til one done. P: G(A). R: Piece, piece, until the one done, that(s two. P: G(A). I see. R: And you are going from class to class with the mango. P: So they shared it R: Shared, so nobody could have after nobody shall get more than you. P: G(A). Who decides that? Did the teacher do that? R: The teacher do that. P: Yeah, right. R: The head teacher do that himself. P: G(A). How many children were there in the school? R: Well, a load. L: A load, G(V). More than fifty. R: Yeah, sometime two hundred. P: Two hundred, really? R: Until we had from first to seven. P: G(A). Is that right? R: Upstairs and downstairs. P: And you had two hundred students. R: You find first, second, third. P: Two hundred students, that(s terrific. Did you play any other games? Did you play any line games or ring games? Or games of like tag or anything like that? R: At the hoop? P: Yeah, OK, tell me about that. R: And I play with some stone and white that found U(M:) P: G(A). R: Can you hide a pound. P: How does that go? R: Well, U(M: four syllable), and he throwing at a stone, a big stone you know? P: G(A). R: And the [?] throwing in a circle. P: G(A). R: And right away, we quick-- I don(t whether I can do nothing but my arm. P G(A). All right. OK. Is that your rooster? Is that your rooster? R: Yeah. P: Want to sell him? R: No. P: U(L). I(m just kidding; go out and kill him. Shut him up. OK. Now I want to ask you about , do you remember when you were small, jumbie stories? R: Yes, sir. P: Tell me what you remember about jumbie stories. R: Maybe, we aint gone into that now. P: Yeah. Well, its pretty much gone, but how did it used to be? R: Jumbie stories, just a little, I don(t hear it every day. P: G(A). OK. R: The story, all them. P: Yeah. R: I hear it all on the radio, right now. P: Well, OK, tell me a jumbie story. Can you tell me one? R: Well, I can(t exactly explain it to you right now. P: Well, did you ever hear of jumbie crabs? R: Jumbie crabs? P: Yeah. R: Me no see one yet. P: No. Tell me about jumbie crab. R: Jumbie crab? P: Yeah. R: I aint never see one yet. P: Never saw one. Did you ever hear of one? R: I hear they had it. P: What did you hear about them? R: I no crab? P: Yeah. R: We get them, though one of them, but I never see a jumbie, just other crab, you know? P: G(A). U(L). R: I never the motion that a crab yet. P: G(A). R: It(s streaking on a crab right now. P: Yeah. R: Two mountain crabs and a form, when they come big they suck always small P: Yeah. R: Become big. P: Yeah. R: They call that the old crab. P: G(A). R: Old man, you is the old man. P: G(A). R: But they only took them older at me age. P: G(A). R: That what the young say today. P: OK. R: So me wouldn(t take sand crab could tell the weather, some of the weather, man. P: Yeah. R: (Be)cause along there, along the beach. P: Yeah R: They dig the hole right down into this water. P: G(A). R: And so this water they find the way into the mountain. P: G(A). R: They know when the water going to work; they leave the sand and go up on the hard dirt. P: I see. The crabs know. R: Yeah, go from the sea. P: G(A). R: They leave the sea and the go in the mountains. P: G(A). Why do they do that? Because there(s plenty water up there? R: That(s a signal. P: G(A). That(s a signal that there(s water up there. OK. That(s two of them; what(s the other kind of crab? R: Well, queen crab. P: Yeah. All right.. R: No, they have land crab.. P: Yeah, land crab. R: Soldier crab P: What(s a soldier crab? R: They have the house on them; they have the house walking with. P: G(A). OK. R: Like a total P: Oh, the one that carries the house with him? It(s like a R: The shell. You have a hole that upper wills from out into a soldier crab. P: Yeah, yeah. Soldier crab, you call them. We call those hermit crabs. Did you ever hear that term? R: Hermit crab? P: Hermit crabs. S U(L). R: Walks around with a shell on the back. U(L). P: Yeah, right, yeah. U(L). But you call them soldier crabs. R: Soldier crabs. P: OK. R: We fishing with them too. P: You use them for bait? R: That(s right. P: G(A) You put the whole crab on a hook?. R: No. P: Or just pieces. R: Take out the bottom. P: G(A). Just take out the bottom. R: And throw away the head, the head with the foot, then with the claw. P: G(A). R: That would bite hard, you know. P: G(A). That(s the stuff you throw away? R: Yeah. The foot end. .P: Yeah. R: But we use the bottom. P: G(A) That(s where the meat is, G(V)? R: The meat, the meat part. P: Yeah, right, OK. U(F) Did you ever hear of a jumbie fire? R: Well, when you(re stealing, when you steal anything from anybody, you got be very careful because it happen in St. Paul, it happen up here, up the alley.. P: G(A). R: And we go to Old Road, when the fire truck go up the alley, to Ott, the family that was. In a jumbie fire it only burns where you put your hand in. P: I see, it only burns. R: Where you put your hand on; it don(t go further..: P: I see. R: You do not feed a jumbie fire. P: Yeah. R: It only burn where you put your hand on. P: I see. Only the things that were stolen it burns. R: Where your own money buy, it won(t burn that. P: It won(t burn them. R: Everybody call a jumbie fire. P: OK. How about a jumbie bean? Ever heard of a jumbie bean? A kind of a plant they call a jumbie bean? R: Well, yes. P: It(s a poisonous, it(s supposed to be poisonous. R: Jumbie bean, you have he big one and the small one. Red and black. P: Ok. R: Two of them, red and black. P: G(A). R: they call them jumbie beans but I call them toulama seed [wild tarmarin?]. P: Toulama seed? R: Yeah, but they got different name. P: But what are they used for? Are they used for anything? R: No. P: You don(t use them for anything OK, have you heard of any plants that you can(t kill and that you cut them off and if you step on them, U(F) it would make your leg like stone.. F: You mean that shameful? P: Yeah. F: The shameful bush. P: Yeah, what is that? F: A kind of bush in the mountains that(s got P: Shameful bush, yeah.. F: When you cut the, all them, all them going close up. P: Tell me about that. That(s exactly what I mean, F: And you walk all them thing going to cut up. P: G(A). F: Them bush, there. P: Yeah. The shameful bush? F: Yeah. P. And if it touches you. Neighbors comments on interviewer Respondant(s caretaker inquires about the interview. P: Now let me ask you something else. Do you remember, let(s go back to that shameful bush a little more. Have you ever seen that? F: A load in St. Kitts. P: They(re not in St. Kitts? R: A load in of them, all over the place. P: Oh, they(re all over. And so tell me what happens when you get scratched by a shameful bush. R: If you don(t be careful, he blood poison you. P: Yeah. R: You got to go to hospital. P: G(A). I heard you couldn(t kill the bush. R: There(s a bush they call French weed. P: Yeah, OK, tell me about that. R: French weed, if you cut them down til tomorrow they spring up. P: G(A). You can(t stop them, G(V)? R: Can(t stop them ever. P: But they(re not poisonous? R: No, rabbit eat them, fowl eat them. P: I see. Do you remember any bushes or weeds or things your mother used to use to make a tea, to make a tea with when you were sick? R: Well, right, presently now, I don(t know about anybody else but latitea. It(s like a grass. P: Yeah. Yeah, I see. R: U(F) Lemon grass. P: Lemon grass. You don(t mean the one with the red flowers on it? R: No. S: This one right there. P: Where? R: See the one right there. The one behind the stump there. P: Oh, down R: The grass, the tree. P: The grass. R: Come out, I(m going to show you. P: G(A). S: This fellow here. P: Oh, this. Gee, I never would have thought that. It looks like. S: Smell that. P: Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, it smells like lemon U(L). U(F) That(s lemon grass. R: Lemon gras. P: That(s lemon grass, yeah, OK, it looks kind of like, what we call monkey grass, but monkey grass doesn(t smell like this. And so, what do you do with lemon grass? R: Well, we make tea. P: Yeah. G(A). And what does that? R: If you have milk, you try to put milk upon it. P: G(A). It(s like a tonic. R: Just a coffee or cocoa. P: G(A). I see. It(s just a drink. R: You got some trees in the mountains. P: Yeah. R: They call them Chinese trees. P: G(A). R: The leaf brown. They also have lifitida. P: I see. And what does the Chinese weed? R: China tree. P: China tree. R: The leaf broad. P: G(A) And what is that good for?. R: Tea? P: Yeah. Just tea, regular tea, but no medicine? R: No. P: No medicinal kind. R: But simple dry weeds [?]. P: G(A). R: They call aloes. P: G(A). R: They good for pain. P: G(A). R: In your stomach. P: G(A). R: You beat a creole egg. P: G(A). R: Just the white. P: G(A). R: And the yellow. P: U(F) Look at this lizard out here? Carlton, what(s that lizard doing? That lizard out there. R: Lizard. S: Oh, yeah, groung lizards, oh, yeah, they(re just walking around. Maybe they(re looking for food. R: Looking food. : S: Ground lizards. P: U(L). They(re fast. Aren(t they? Big, but those are harmless; they(re not S: No, they don(t bother you. R: Won(t bother you. But all of them boys kill anyhow. P: G(A). Now, want to ask you, do you remember the sport they used to have at Christmas? R: yeah. P: Tell me what you remember about that. Remember when kids and everybody would get together and they(d do things like David and Goliath. R: Golia(th). P: Yeah. R: Masquerade. P: Yeah. R: Clown P: G(A). R: Cowboy. P: G(A). R: Children of Israel. P: G(A). R: School children. P: G(A). R: Actors. P: Yeah, that(s good. R: Blackguard P: What(s that? R:Like a (U:M three syllables) P: How that(s now? R: You black up your face with charcoal. P: Oh, oh, I see, sure. R: You blacken your skin. P: Oh, I see. Blacken. R: Cake walk. P: G(A). Cake walk, is that right U(L). They do the cake walk, G(V)? R: Johnnie Walker. P: G(A), U(L). R: You see those, see those. P: G(A). And all of these were acts? R: Bad cook. P: Is that right? How did that one go? R: Bang in the face, go double. P: U(L). R: But had a gentleman here, Habeed,. P: Yeah. R: Used to got some pickle. P: G(A). R: Just so, P: G(A). R: You get a cry-seem[?] and tie the man. P: G(A). R: But get the cry-see-ing upon, get a wire and tie the cry-see pan around him like a belt. P: G(A)/ R: So pickle here,. P: G(A). R: And pickle here. P: G(A). G(A). R: And so here, he ain(t going tell nobody move from the crowd . P: U(L). R: You aint coming in. And you know why, don(t you? You want to ease back. P: Yeah, right, OK. R: You ever see a mongoose, G(V)?. P: No, what(s that? A mango? R A mongoose. P: Mongoose. R: Mongoose, not a mango. P: Yes. U(L). I thought you said a mango. A mongoose, yes, I(ve seen a mongoose. Yeah. R: Ever see a monkey. P: Yes, I(ve seen monkeys. R: Since you(re here. P: Yes, as a matter of fact, I saw a monkey last night. I saw a monkey last night at Old Road. There(s a guy has a tavern U(I). R: Yeah, in a cage. P: In a cage. R: And one right now, where you(re going to. P: Yeah R: Yeah. P: I used to see them. They(re pretty big, those monkeys. R: They weren(t so small? P: yeah. No, they(re about this big. R: Oh. P: Th monkey(s about this big. It was in a cage at Old Road at a bar. R: In a bar? P: In a bar, but I(ve seen mongoose run across the road. R: They do that, don(t you know. P: Yeah, the go fast, very fast. R: But they could swim. P: Is that right? R: They could swim. P: U(L) I didn(t know that. R: (Be)cause when I was small P: Yeah, go ahead. R: You catch one in a trap. P: G(A). R: You got to set set the trap with a egg. P: G(A). R: (Be) cause you got to put the egg right behind. P: G(A). R: And when you got the thing and he (the) rest suck.... P: G(A). R: When he go in P: Yeah. R: He knock, where he make the egg. P: Yeah. G(A). Touch the egg and he knock the trap down. R: The trap fly. P: G(A). R: And he can(t come out. P: G(A). R: When you go out look at the trap and he see you P: Yeah. R: [squealing sound] P: G(A). Did you used to sell those tails, did you ever sell those tails to the police? R: Well. P: Mongoose tails. R: We cut them off. P: Yeah. R: And sell the police here up with the car go[?] P: Yeah, G(A). Yeah, I heard that they did that. R: And rat P: Yeah, rats. R: Mice. P: Did they pay you for those too? R: Well, six pence for the mongoose and two copper, pence, for rat, yeah. P: U(L) R: I want to tell you; I charged that too. For when I go to theater, I get about a pan. P: You(d have to get quite a few rats, wouldn(t you? R: Quite a few. P: U(L). R: A couple dozen of them. And the manager he was so stupid he going send me go tovik [?] unintelligible P: is that right? That(s pretty good. What other kind of animals were there.around, beside the mongoose and the rats and the mice? R: Spider. P: OK. Any different kinds? R: Well, the house (they have?) jumbie spider. P: Jumbie spider. Tell me about the jumbie spider. That(s like a nancy G(V)? R: They call them so. P: Yeah. R: We call them big spider and small spider. P: G(A). R: The small spider come to see him. P: Call that the jumbie spider? R: Some of them a foot long. P: Carlton, Carlton, could you turn the radio off? S: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah P: Would you mind, Thank you. OK, tell me about that. Tell me about the small spider. R: Well, they have no web. P: Yeah. R: The small one got no web. P: Yeah. What about the large one? R: He set like a net. P: G(A).. R: He see a fly there so. P: Yeah. R: Why, thy were known to him. P: G(A) I see. OK. What(s a jumbie spider?. R: They say, I must say, they say, that hasn(t happen to me yet. P: So haven(t seen one yet. R: They say if you kill a jumby spider, it will anything in your hand mash up. P: What will happen if you kill a jumbie spider? R: They say and you hold anything in your hand and it fall into a smash up. P: You get anything you want? R: If you kill it? P: Yeah. R: And hold like a glass in your hand you mess up the bottle too, you mess up. P: What(s he saying? S: Yeah, yeah. P: What(s he saying? S: He says if you kill a jumbie spider, right? P: Yeah. S: You hold a bottle or a glass in your hand, it will break in your hand. P: G(A). Oh, I see. U(L). R: You took a egg. P: G(A). Just like an egg. R: It drop and fall your hand and mash. P: OK. Any other kind of animal, Go ahead. R: If you hold a egg so P: Yeah. R: And put it to point one here and one here: P: Yeah. R: And you could squeeze from now until tomorrow and never broke. P: Yeah. G(A). R: It never broke. P: The two ends, yeah, I(ve heard that. Yeah. R: You heard it. P: Yeah, I(ve heard it. In fact, I tried that, I think. R: You tried that? P: Yeah, I think so. Side B P: Others you haven(t mentioned. R: Animals, well, there(s cattle, sheep. P: G(A). R: Goat, pigs, deer. P: What kind of deer? Are they all the same? R: Well, U(F) I see them over at Frigate Bay. P: G(A). Frigate Bay? R: Yeah. G: (A). R: They got plenty horn. P: Horns, G(V)? R: Yeah, look over sheep or goat. P: G(A). Did you used to travel all over the island? What did you do over at Frigate Bay? Just traveling around? Or fishing over there. R: Well, going and see and the daughters go see them, go swim. P: Oh, go swimming over there. R: Go dive and catch one. P: G(A). R: Come in to see. P: G(A). Sounds all right. R: Going to eat, it(s fine and nice. P: G(A). You didn(t like it over there? R: But over there, it a religion. P: G(A). U(F) What kind of birds are there on St. Kitts? R: Booby. P: Birds, yeah, OK. R: Ballyhoo bird, hawk. P: OK. What(s a ballyhoo bird? That(s a hawk. R: No. S: Like a seagull. P: That(s a seagull, OK. R: Teat [?] (disyllabic) P: OK. R: And right now they have some white bird they call them S: Egrets They all along the wire here. P: OK. How about the shitaweek? R: I don(t see them. P: Did you ever hear of them? Shitaweek. S: Kitkilliweek R: Kitkilliweek. S: Yeah. R: They come out here and I don(t sleep, though. P: G(A). R: They don(t sleep. They all along the wire here. P: G(A). Now those are all kind of seabirds. What about land birds? . R: Birdie P: G(A). R: Ground dove. P: G(A). R: Mountain dove P: OK. R: Pigeon. P: G(A) R: Barby dove. P: Yeah. That(s the dove that jumps in the mountains. R: The bird that jump. Bird can(t walk up them, had to climb. P: G(A). OK. Now, listen, I(d just like you to do one more thing for me. Will you count for me? This is just for your pronunciation. I(d like you to count for me from one to fourteen. Just go one, two. R: One P: Louder. R: Two P: Louder. R: Three, four. Five, P: Louder. R: Six, seven eight, nine, ten eleven, twelve, thirteen fourteen. P: OK, Now, I(d like you to tell me. What(s the number after nineteen? R: The number after nineteen? P: Yeah, R: Twenty. P: OK. The number after thirty-nine. R: Forty. R: The number after ninety-nine R: One hundred. P: Nine hundred and eighty-nine? S: Nine ninety-nine R: Nine ninety-nine P: Yeah, thousand, nine hundred ninety-nine S: After nine ninety nine is what? P: One R: One thousand P: Now would you name the days of the week? R:Sunday P: Louder, though, if you will. R: Sunday. P: Yeah. R: Monday P: Yeah R: Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday P: Yeah, and Sat- R: Saturday. P: OK. How about the months of the year? The months of the year. R: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. P: OK. Now I(d like you to go from one to ten, like you(re talking about the days of the month, you know. Like we(d say today is the sixteenth, sixteenth of July, sixteenth of July. U(F) When the month began, it was what? It was the fi- R: First. P: And then the R: Sixteenth P: No, first, sec-, second S: Second. P: Can say. S: Second, third, that(s the way he wants it.. P: Yeah, see. R: The first, the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth, the sixth P: Seventh. R: The seventh, the eighth, the ninth, the tenth, eleventh, That(s enough, Mr. XXX. That is great. And that(s all.