Interview: 16 July, 2002 Initial Transcript: 26 August 2002 Newton Ground, St. Kitts Lee XXX: (P: prompter) LeRoy XXX XXX (R: primary respondent) Carlton XXX, driver (S: secondary respondent) G(A): Grunt, affirmation G(N): Grunt, negation G(Q): Grunt, question, (Is that right?(; (You don(t say( G(V) Grunt, seeking verification. (Say what?( U(C): Utterance, cough U(F): Utterance, false start U(H): Utterance, hesitation U(I): Utterance, interruption U(L): Utterance, laughter U(M) Utterance muffled, inaudible. U(S) Utterance of surprise ( ) Deleted phoneme, word, or phrase P: One, two, three, four. One two , three, four. One, two ,three. Yeah. It looks like it(s working now. R: You want to run it back? P: No, that(s OK. It(s just a few seconds. I don(t want to take a chance. I don(t want to take a chance. U(L) If it(s working R: Oh, oh. Oh. P: OK. Tell me your name again. R: My name is LeRoy XXX. P: OK. And you go by another name too, you say. R: Yeah, XXX. P: OK. And where were you born? R: Born at Newton Ground. P: G(A). Where. Newton? R: Newton Ground. P: Newton Ground. How far is that from here? R; Just about a mile from here. P: G(A). That(s a separate village from Sandy Point. R: Yes. P: OK. R: That(s U(F) when you go up, you come to Newton Ground. P: I see. OK. And how old are you? R: I(m fifty-five P: All right And what(s your occupation. R: Laborer. I(m also a laborer. P: OK. Laborer, what kind of labor, what kind of work do you do? R: Well, sometime I work in a hut for the factory as, you see, P: G(A). R: And also work in the garage as maintenance. P: Tell me a little bit about that, could you, the kind of work you do? R: Yes, I started working for the factory in nineteen fifty-nine, January until, up to now. P: G(A). R: So you call it forty-three years I been working for the company. P: G(A). R: I(m on my way out for retirement. P: Oh, is that right. R: Yeah. P: Now is this related to sugar? R: Yes. This good sugar and sugar soil. And we have a little problem with it. P: G(A). R: But the Lord will help us to overcome it. P: G(A). R: You knew we in a little debt. Everybody knows how the world through the eleventh of September. P: Yeah. R: The thing change, and everything(s going on, everybody(s baling out. P: Yeah. R: How recession. is, but you know, we got make all to God, it(s God will.: . P: G(A). R: And we have to turn round. P: Yeah. R: Beyond that, you got the crops, crops will come between. You get the provision. You got experience plant the grounds, you go to the market and sell. You ship out when you have fresh food. We ship out to other islands. P: G(A). R: St. Maartins, Sat. Eustatius, St, Thomas, Anguila, and so forth. P: G(A). You ship it out raw? R: Well, provision. P: G(A). R: In bags, sometime bags of potatoes, some times ship out bags of pinders to Barbados. P: Yeah. R: And we ship out tomato, onion. P: G(A). R: Well, no, we have surplus onion that they ship out from Nevis to other places. P: What kind of onions do they grow here? Are they, what kind of onion? R: Well, the same kind of onion that grows from America. P: Oh, I see. But you don(t know. R: I don(t know right now. P: You don(t know sweet onions or Spanish onions? R: No, no, no. P: G(A). R: No, no, no. We got onions to cut up in the pot. P: OK. U(L). How about peppers. What kind of peppers do you grow? . R: We use both peppers, sweet pepper, seasoning peppers and we use the hot peppers. P: What the middle one. You said sweet pepper and what(s the other one? R: Seasoning pepper. P: Seasoning pepper is like. R: That(s like we cut up P: Yeah. R: And you take the seed. P: More like black pepper, G(V)? R: Yeah, we take the seed and we plant them back and we get some. P: I see. R: But we don(t know much about black pepper over here. P: G(A). R Cause maybe when they say black pepper, they put the peppers grind overseas. P: Yeah, and grind. R: And then you grind them and bag them and so forth. P: G(A). Do you have many kinds of hot pepper? R: Yes, we have. P: What kinds. R: We have the white and you have the yellow kind.. P: G(A). They don(t have Scotch bonnet here? They don(t grow here? R: Scotch bonna? P: Scotch bonnet. No, Scotch bonnet, B-O-N-N-E-T. R: No, no. P: I think that(s a Jamaican pepper. R: No, no. Well, maybe they(re trying to bring in some now (be)cause we trying to go on the world market with food. P: Well, you got some mighty hot peppers though. Do you know Merchie? A guy named Merchie? R: Guy. P: This is a guy, a guy who lives in Basseterre. R: Basseterre, shop merchant. P: Yeah R: Five Ways. P: U(L). You know him. Five Ways. R: Yeah, Five Ways. Merchie. P: Well, I went over to his house for supper last Saturday night. And I said, get me some pepper. R: G(A). P: I had a bowl of souse. R: G(A). P: He gave this bowl of souse and he gave me this hot pepper sauce, and I put it in, and, man, it almost blew the top of my head off. . R: U(L). You(re lucky. P: Yeah. R: I got some pepper here U(F) that don(t go in your eye, burn your eye. P: Oh, I know. I know. That(s happened to me. I mean, I(ve rubbed my eye. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. P: I eat jalapenos. R: When you(re small. P: No. Just recently. U(L). I eat jalapeno peppers all the time, you know. And I get that stuff on my fingers, the juice. It(s really bad for you. R: We come back here, trying to raise some animals, trying to rear cattle and sheep or so forth. P: G(A). R: But, I must say, people have dogs that go in. We got control those dogs if they need things more to come in animal. P: G(A). R: (Be)cause you know, if we buy meat, we spend a lot of money. P: G(A). R: To bring in meat. P: G)A). R:: To suffice our own self with public meat and so so forth. P: U(F) Was this a sugar company you worked for? R: Yes, it(s the same thing. P: What kind of work do you do. I know you said labor, but what kind of work do you do. R: Well, you see, I use a shovel. P: Yeah. R: I use a pen. P:Yeah. R: I use a cold cut. P: Yeah. R: I don(t know if you know anything you cut. P: Yeah, yeah, yeah, like a machete you use? R: I use machete. R: Anything. P: OK. R: Anything you put in my hand, I use it. P: U(L). OK. I see R: Anything you put in my hand I use it. P: OK. R: Anything you put it another way, I (w)as a handyman. P: OK. R: I (w)as a handyman. P: OK. That(s good. Did you ever work with those trains? R: Yeah, yeah. We did the local P: Yeah, I saw one down here this morning. R: Yeah, yeah. P: They were cleaning up the stuff that had fallen off. R: Yeah, picking up cane and so forth. P: Yeah. What do you do during the off-season? R: We;; the off-season, I come here and I work as a carpenter. P: But they keep you busy, the company keeps you busy during the of-season.. R: Yeah, yeah. P: OK. That(s good. Ok. Now, tell me about your schooling. R: Wew, my schooling was lovely. P: OK. Tell me. R: I sorry, I sorry I could not go to school. P: Forever, (G(V)? R: Yeah. P: I know what you mean. R: Yeah, (be)cause the days is these day, you know how school is now. P: G(A). R: In the schooldays, we had to run. P: G(A). R: Go to school. P: G(A). R: We had to weed cane. P: G(A). R: And when we aint weed cane, washing skin. P: G(A). R: Run going school someday around it with potato in me hand. P: G(A). R: And a piece of black mackerel in me hand, going school.. P: Is that right? U(L).. R: Going with something to eat, stopping to eat. P: Is that right. R: And time off for education. P: Did you go to school in Newton Ground? R: No, St. Paul(s. P: Oh, St.Paul(s. R: Newton Ground school just built in 1957. P: G(A).U(F). So Newton U(I). R: St. Paul(s is about a mile from Newton Ground, call it a half mile from Newton Ground. P: OK. And how far is it from Sandy Point? R: Well, about two miles, two and a half miles from Sandy Point.. P: Well, U(F) it(s really only about four miles to St. Paul(s? R: Yes. P: Yeah, OK, I didn(t know it was that close. R: G(A). P: But St. Paul(s is right up at the end of the island, isn(t it? R: No. When you pass Newton Ground. P: Newton Ground is the tip? R: Yeah, when you pass Newton Ground, you go around. P: G(A). R: And you pass a chapel. P: G(A). R: Chapel on the side P: G(A). R: When you get around P: Yeah. R: Then you pass the church. P: G(A). R: On the other side and as you brush over the hill, here comes your (Welcome to St. paul(s( P: I see. And where(s Dieppe? Dieppe Bay. R: Dieppe. No. He live in St. Paul(s. P: OK. All right. R: He live as you go round there, I think, second curve, to go out of St. Paul. P: I see. OK. I(ve got it. R: And he(s a nice man. He should have been willing to go in politics. He(s very nice. P: OK. R: He listen you patiently. He bear with you. P: OK Well, that(s good. How old were you when you stopped going to school. R: Well, I was about seventeen. No, about nineteen, a time people used to go to school here, twenty. P: Was that the equivalent of finishing high school? R: No, no. In them days, U(F) we know nothing about high school. P: G(A) R: He could tell you. We never know about high school in them days.. P: G(A). I believe you. R: Because, God bless the man is dead, ashes. P: G(A). R: Is Mr. XXX who opened up the eyes for high school. P: G(A). R: Because a black could not have a high school. P: G(A). R: To get into a high school, you have to had finance. P: G(A). R: You got to be a wealthy man, a rich man, in St. Kitts to get a high school.. P: G(A). XXX did a lot for the people. R: Yeah XXX opened up the way. P: Yeah. R: The first thing Mr. XXX do, he clean up the country because we had, sorry to you the word to you, he had to like tics, chigger, all them thing. P: Yeah. R: And he bring in the Health Department. P: G(A). R: And he clean up St. Kitts. And first after he clean up St. Kitts, after he would get on the council. P: G(A). R: Then after they say, OK. Young Farmer Party. P: G(A). Yeah. R: He went into it. P: G(A). R: And elected, he was win by the people. P: G(A). R: He was the people(s choice. P: Yeah. R: And still people choice! P: Yeah. I know. R: Call in, aint nobody see bad about him. P: Never heard spoken about him. U(L). R: No, no, no, no, no. P: As a matter of fact when I was here last time, you at Mattingly. R: Mattingly. P: There(s that big sign. R: Yeaah. Mattingly Heights. P: And there(s a big poster on one side. R: Mr. Brian XXX. P: I took a picture of that, and have it on my desk at home. That picture of XXX on the other side, coming out of Basseterre there. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Call it Mattingly Heights. P: Yeah, right, I saw it there the other day. Are you married. R: Single. P: OK. Single. Could you tell me something about your parents. R: Well, all of our parents and after I get them where I live. P: Yeah. R: My father die nineteen seventy-eight. P: G(A). R: In October, the last of October. P: G(A). R: And he buried the sixth of November. P: R: My mother die nineteen eighty-three. P: G(A). R: Let(s say eighty-three in March month. P: Were they both born in Newton? R: No, well, my father was from Challenger(s P: G(A). R: The XXX from Challenger(s. P: G(A). R And me mother was from Newton Ground. P: G(A). His name was XXX? R: Yeah. His name was Adolphus XXX. P: Adolphus XXX. And so you use the name XXX or XXX. R:Because U(I) Or the front door. I show you how to use [raining, trying to close the doors of the van] P: Is this all right? R: No, the one, the one, the next one, the other one. Shove in the door first. No, no. Open the door. More. P: This. R: The door, the door. P: Oh, that door, I got you U(L). R: OK. P: Will that be all right? R: Ok. We be all right cause the rain(s coming. Watch your foot. P: I(m glad you told me that because my bag(s right there. R: So what from?. P: We were talking about the XXX name and the XXX name. R: Usually would have to call me XXX, I was out the wedlock. P: G(A). R: I was a bastard. P: OK. R: So after take out my passport, my mother finally, I had to use the title.. P: G(A). R: So therefore, people know me as XXX, but some people do not know me most as XXX. P: I see. I see. R: So sometime I have to put one in brackets. P: OK. I see What(s the difference, really. So did you know your grandparents. R: How? P: Did you know either of your grandparents? R: No, no, no, no, no, no no. Well, U(F) I could say my mother told me her grandmother is from Dieppe Bay. P: G(A). And where is Dieppe Bay? R: Dieppe Bay is P: Is that past St. Paul(s? R: Yes. Just about a mile two. P: Past St. Paul(s. R: Yes . Then after you pass Dieppe Bay, you meet Parson Ground. P: Yes. R: Then a little bit after parson Ground, a place called Harris(s. P: Yeah. R: Then after Harris(s, you meet Sadlers. P: Yes. R: You meet Bell Vue, you meet Tabernacle, you meet Mansion, all way going, you meet Phillip(s, Lodge all and places like that. P: Yes, villages. R: To reach Basseterre. P: Yeah Lodge Village and also Cayon. R: What? Yeah, you got Connery. P: No, there(s one that starts with a (C(; it(s just past Lodge Village. What(s the town after you pass through Lodge Village? R: Lodge Village. Brighton? P: No. It starts with a (C(; Cayon? R: You mean before they got? Cayon, yes, Cayon, Cayon.. P: That(s it. Yeah. U(L). Give you a hard time. OK. Your mother then was a XXX, right? R: Yes. P: How much time have you spent off the island. R: I say four to six months. After crop finished, I go down to se my daughters.. I must say I have four children. P: OK. Tell me about your children. R: Well, my children one born in nineteen sixty-three, another one born nineteen sixty-four, another one born nineteen seventy-three. And th last one born nineteen eighty. P: OK. How about boys and girls. R: Yeah, I have [?]... Have two boys and two girls. P: OK. What are they doing now? R: Well, one going school, about twelve years.. P: Where do they live? R: One live in Halfway Tree that when you come in. P: Yeah, I know where that is. R: The others in St. Thomas. P: G(A). R: I got about nine grandchildren. P: G(A). Is that right? That(s wonderful. So three of them live on the island and one of them lives in St. Thomas? R: No. Three of them in St. Thomas. P: Three of them are in St. Thomas. R: And one of them. P: I see. I see. How did they get over to St. Thomas. R: Well. P: Were the born over there? R: The mother, no, what happen, the mother mother, I must say, both mother mother and father went down to St. Thomas. P: G(A). R: At the time, they must have during the emigrate, people to cut cane. P: G(A). R: They went down and they get the rights as a visa, so, you know. P:G. R: And they pass it on to the children. P: G(A). R: So the children pass it on to their children. P: G(A). R: Excuse me, so that(s why they reach down there. P: G(A). I see. OK. But that(s the only place you(ve been? You(ve just been to St. Thomas? R: Well, in the summer, I don(t talk about that. In the summer I went to Trinidad for fourteen days on a course. P: G(A). R: Because I was a union representative once and they sent me for a course. P: G(A). R: I was glad for it because I learned a lot from it And experience, something I aint see happening in St. Kitts. P: I see. How old were you when XXX died? R: I was about, he died, let me see, seventy-eight. P: G(A). R: I was about thirty something to forty something years. P: Oh, really, so you really were an adult and you really knew him as an adult. R: Yes. P: It wasn(t just what people told you about him. R: No, no, no, no, no. I knew. P: And if you were a labor representative, you must have [opening door of van after rain] R: No, I told you. Be frank. P: Yes. R: When Mr. XXX, in nineteen fifty-three, Mr. XXX was coming around and speaking about the trade union. P: Yeah, yeah. R: I was going school still. P: G(A). R: And he done come round with his, you know, kind of khaki suit. P: U(L). U(G). R: And so forth. And he tell you, My children, we all have mercy, let them wash all their arm[?] And I went to school and education was free. P: G(A). R: So from there, I realize. I never could back the opposition party. P: G(A). R: Because they aint educational good. They destroying instead of building.. P: G(A). R: He destroying. P: He really was committed to the people, wasn(t he? R: Yes. Cause in nineteen seventy-five, he went to the poll, by asking the people if he must take the sugar land. P: G(A). R: The people give him the OK. P: Yeah. R: Yeah. He win the election with that. P: OK the next thing I(d like to ask you about are games you played as a child. R: I played cricket. P: Tell me what you remember. R: I play cricket. P: Tell me about cricket. Can you describe, can you explain cricket to me in a few words? Or not a few words, but in, you know, a few minutes. R: Well, the days of today, my, our cricket is not like today. P: G(A). R: We used to challenge school. St Paul used to come sign fine [?] beat our sign a fine [?]. P: You played for Newton Ground? R: No Because St. Paul, Newton Ground combine that school together. P: G(A). R: And we used to come beat Sandy Point, Sandy Point can not beat us. P: G(A). U(L). R: But in my days, me start from school, we used to play windball, every Sunday. P: G(A). R: Me get some fellows with me. . I don(t know if he remember, before he went Basseterre or went England. P: G(A). R: We used to go Fig Tree. P: G(A). R: Beat all Fig Tree. P: G(A) R: We come back; we down there, place they call Backway down there.. P: G(A). R: We beat them all. We go Montitle [?}. P: G(A). R: We beat them. P: G(A). R: Until when we become big men, we forget that. P: OK, but now tell me about cricket, the game. R: Well, to be honest.I will say the game is not the same today. P: G(A). R: The young player is not fair. P: G(A). R: The cricket is not sweet like once. P: G(A). Did you play with a hard ball.? R: Sure, yes. P: That was a hard ball. You didn(t play windball cricket. R: Yes. P: G(A). R: We used to have a kind of thing. We used to cut off bike tubes. You know bike tubes? P: Oh, yeah. R: We get a piece of wood and we run it up. P: G(A). R: And we cut the thing smaller and wrap it through on it. P: G(A). R: And we call it cumperball P: G(A). R: And you pierced that, man, you knock down with it, .with it. P: How big was the ball? R: Almost the size of P: Of a cricket ball? R: Cricket ball. P: So it was just wound up rubber on it? R: Yeah. The windball, you know, the hardball have a thing in it. P: Yeah. R: A round thing in it. We took out that after windball, after hardball and put on rubber thing on it.. P: Yeah. But the windball(s a tennis ball, like a lawn tennis ball, isn(t iy? R: Yes. P: Yeah. Do you remember any other games you played as a child? Ring games or. R: Pitch marbles. P: Pitch marbles. R: G(A). P: Did you ever play any games with tops. R: No. P: With tops where you out the P, N, A. R: I know like. I no like because sometime you referring hit the fellow tough and he look fight. P: OK. Now I want to ask you about jumbies, what you(ve heard about jumbies, you know. R: Well, I can(t see them so I can(t P: I know. U(L) I know you can(t see them, R: But I heard people talk about them. P: What have you heard them say? R: I heard say that, jumbies, sometime, they going anywhere. P: G(A). R: They would see a jumbie or somebody meet a path. P: G(A). R: For instance, I know when I go cross into Common Tree[?] P: Yes. R: I feel a hotness in me hand, you know, cross you hot, eh? P: G(A). U(L). R: They say maybe someone will follow you. P: G(A). R: But I can remember one time and I was going with a girl, and I going home with me one from Sandy Point to Newton Ground. P: G(A). R: And when I reach over the morning my mother ask me (When you come last night?( P: I tell her when. R: I tell her when, she tell me (Don(t do it again.( P: G(A). R: Cause me mother and me father, your father come in not be at home. Me grandfather come in be sleep and say ignore them, I(d would have been a dead man this morning. P: Really. R: I don(t believe in it, but P: Did you ever hear of jumbie crabs? R: No. P: Or a jumby fire. R: Yeah. P: Tell me what you heard about the jumbie fire. R: Well, I heard they ad a jumbie fire up the alley. P: G(A). R: And that occurred from somebody stealing. P: G(A). R: And then, you know, the people done went and set up wherever they want set up. P: G(A) R: And they burn up all the clothes excepting the money aint buy. P: The things that weren(t stolen. R: All that the money buy burned up. P: G(A). R: Carlton, were you in Sandy Point that time when that happened ? [to driver] S: No, no, I must have been in England. P: Did your mother make any kind of things when you were sick with weeds or bushes? R: Well to be honest, we have, who give, you know, some items, some good bushes. P: G(A).. R: U(F). You have the gum bush, that good; you have fever bush. P: G(A). R: You have horse rubdown, chickory nut sage. P: G(A). R: White men and you a kind of bush you call the yellow bush. P: G(A). R: That good for the bellyache. P: G(A). R: And you have the white one for blood pressure. P: G(A). Yeah. What was the one you said before the sage? R: Chigger nut. P: What(s that? R: A kind of bush. It(s broad, leaf broad. P: Yeah. R: When it dry. P: G(A). R: It(s going (to) be black. P: G(A). R: It(s a good bush. P: G(A). And what(s that good for? R: Well, we have mool [?] the cold all the time, cut the fever and so forth.. P: G(A). Oh, I see. OK. That(s great. Now I want to ask you about, U(F) Are you old enough to remember the time when they used to have the sports instead of the carnival? R: Yes. P: Tell me what you remember. R: I remember in the Christmastime have big jump U(I). P: G(A). R: You have masquerade. P: G(A). R: You have Goliath. P: Yeah. R: You have makajumbie. P: G(A). R: You have U(I). P: What(s a macajumbie? R: Well, macajumbie(s some fellows and stick. P: G(A). R: Dancing. P: G(A). R: I don(t know if you ever seen them yet, since you in St. Kitts. P: No. R: Well, they all done by all the mums. P: Oh, I(ve seen those paintings of, those drawings. R: Yeah. P: U(F) beautiful things, with these colorful costume on. R: Yeah. P: And they wave these sticks around.. R: Yeah. P: That(s a macajumbie? R: Yeah. You have some in Sandy Point. P: G(A). Yeah. R: U(F) If you want me organize some and you come and take the pictures. P: OK. Is that right? R: But you got to let me know what time of day you do that. P: OK. All right. U(L). I(ll take you up on that. Did you ever participate in those things? R: No. P: Never, you never. R: They come. Macajumbie come for [?] P: G(A). R: About in the nineteen, you know, Carlton? S: No, man. Macajumbie here? R: G(A). S: Since I(m a small boy. P: G(A). R: Well, popular, then, let(s say popular. S: Well, always popular, don(t know if you remember Mr. XXX, the man called Papa XXX[?] R: Oh, yes, yes, since in the fifties.. S: Well, since I was a small boy R: Yeah. P: And so then, U(F) it was in XXX day when changed the sports to carnival? R Yes. That happened in nineteen seventy, seventy-one to seventy-two. P: G(A). R: That make it national carnival. They used to have the Christmas and you saw that little thing with you.. P: G(A). R: Afterward. P: He didn(t like that. R: He like it. You know, before the first man who introduce carnival. P: Yeah. R: To the government is a policeman from Trinidad named XXX XXX, XXX. He was a policeman. P: G(A). R: And he come St. Kitts. P: G(A). R: And he introduce carnival, the first, I mean, yes, I mean carnival, the first year. P: G(A). R: And then it works beautiful and then they introduce it next year. P: Yeah. R: And then, I think, a December [?] nationalize it, national carnival. P: G(A). R: Until now. P: And that(s when they brought in the beauty pageants and U(I). R: Yes, yes, yes, yes. P: Miss St,. Kitts and so forth. R: Yes. P: Ok. I see. That(s great. Now U(F). Tell me about the other holidays. What other holidays are there on St. Kitts besides U(I)? R: Well, number one. P: Yeah. R: We have New Year(s Day. P: G(A). R: Then since Nevis have Culturama. P: G(A). R: That give us extra day. P: G(A). R: Then you come, you have Good Friday. P: Yeah. R: You have Easter Monday. You have Labor Day. P: Yeah. R: You have Whit Monday P: Yeah. R: You have August Monday that is the day when slavery was abolished. P: Week Monday is August Monday? R: No. P: G(A). R: Whit Monday is a day by itself. P: OK. Whit Monday R: But August Monday is the day when slavery was abolished in eighteen thirty-three. P: Right. I see. R: Then you come down, you have Heroes Day. That is the day, this is a late one come in. P: Yeah. R: Since the government change. P: Veterans of wars. R: Yes, and then you have Independence Day. P: G(A). R: St. Kitts Independence Day in nineteen eighty-three. P: What(s the date? R: The nineteenth of September P: OK R: Nineteen eighty-three. P: Nineteenth of September is Independence Day. R: Yeah. And then, we aint got, come back down to December. P: G(A) R: We used to have a little called Gambelae [?], but that aint a holiday.. P: How do you spell that? R: Gameberlae G-A-B-L-A-E P: What did that mean? R: That mean when they went to burn down the place in England. P: Oh. R: When they made the fire downstairs. P: Oh, you mean Guy Fawkes Day? R: Yes. P: U(L). OK. R: Call it Gambelae . P: OK. I see. Can you spell that for me? Gambelae? R: C-H something-B-L-E P: B-L-E. Ok, And how about Empire Day? R: Well, that(s washed out. That(s washed out. P: You don(t have that any more. R: No, no. P: After Independence Day. R: No, no. P: Let me ask you quickly, what are those birds out there? R: You call, them, what do you call them? Carlton, what do you call them birds there? S: The white ones? R: Yeah. S: The egrets. R: Yeah. P: These are egrets? R: Well, what do you them next to them? S: Duck. R: Ducks. P: Ducks, yea, that(s what I was going to call them. U(L). S: All the ducks got, went across here. I thought you meant the egrets. P: I(d call them ducks myself. S: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Half a dozen ducks pass by here a while ago. P: Those are ducks then. R: Yeah. P: These are ducks. OK. Just ordinary ducks. U(F). No, first, about sugar terms. Tell me about the processing of sugar. R: Well. P: You know, just, you know. R: Well, processing the crop. Sorry, first I must begin with the start, how crop going to start.. P: OK. R: Union and the Planters Associations, we used to call it once, they together and they bargain. P: G(A). R: And they will give an increase, or if they aint got no increase, whatever the refiner come aint got no increase say, OK, we give a incentive. P: G(A). R: So the more you put out, you get more incentive. P: Yeah. R: So if you can(t put out some, some more output, you can(t get no incentive. P: G(A). R: Well, the crop it start at a certain date to a certain date to end. P: G(A). R: And the cane will pass as, you see, on that line down there. P: Yeah R: Here(s the substation. P: OK. R: They bring the cane from outside. P: Yeah. R: They stood them here. P: G(A). R: The local will take the empties from here. P: G(A). R: Carry them and ship them, carry them back to certain outside stations. P: Yeah. R: And then the Basseterre local will come and take them from here and carry them straight to Basseterre. P: G(A). R: And grind red them[?] put them in the skin and red them [?]. P: G(A). R: And the people U(F) send out the ticket to the U(H) the amount the truck scale weigh. P: Yeah. R: And will get paid and the cane will go down, down by the dump, call it, down by the tipper. P: G(A). R: And they will dump them down there and the cane will go up into the carrier P: G(A). R: And the machete P: G(A). R: Chop them up. P: Now they have a machete. P: U(F) a mechanized machete. R: Yes, but we call, the old-time people call it a machete P: Machete. R: So I think, send it to machete. P: Yeah. R: So it would go down there and chop up fine. P: Right. R: And they would go up in the carrier. P: G(A). R: From the carrier they go the roller. P: G(A). R: And the roller press them bring them to where we want them. P: G(A). R: And when we get sufficient, then we call what husks, we call them bagasse. P: G(A). R: And the other, the dirt P: Yes. R: We turn into mud. P: G(A). R: The mud we throw into the cane field. P: G(A). R: The bagasse we turn into the cane field. P: G(A). R: So that is how the crop is run and then when the crop end, you would get a dull season bonus P: G(A). R: You get a crop bonus. P: G(A). R: You get a Christmas bonus. P: G(A). All three? R: Yeah. P: During the processing. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. P: U(F) Now I know there(s trash and bagasse. Do you ever call bagasse magasse? R: Bagasse is the U(I). P: Do you ever call it magasse? R: Yes. It(s really the thing from the cane. P: Yes. R: Otherwise, I was telling you, P: Yes. R: Because after the roller finish it P: G(A). R: And nothing else in it. P: G(A). R: You go down into the storeroom they store up there. P: G(A). R: And they got some people will put gathering P: G(A). R: And they tying them up. P: I see. Did you call it magasse when you were little, when you were young. Or did you always call it bagasse? R: Call it bagasse. P: OK. And isn(t there another kind of trash that comes at the bottom in the processing. I can(t think. R: Mud. Mud. P: Mud, that(s it. R: Mud. We call it mid. P: I see. OK. R: Call it mud. Some people call it filter press. P: Call it what? R: Filter press. P: That(s what it is. That(s what it was, refers to mud. R: We shorten it and call it mud. Filter press is the right name. P: U(L). Ok. That(s good.. That(s what I was getting after.: Now I(d like to ask you about some different kinds of grasses, weeds, and trees that you(re familiar with, just some different kinds.. R: We have elephant grass. P: Yeah. OK. R: A kind of gras something like cane. P: Yeah. R: You have guinea grass. P: Yeah. R: You have sea, you have tom tigway [?] P: G(A). R: You have nutgrass. P: G(A). R: Then you have them kind of grass there. P: G(A). R: Let me go to show you. P: OK. R: These, we call them nut. P: Nut grass. R: Yes. Hard. P: OK. R: Once ago we used to take them and put them in bed. P: G(A). For mattress? R: Yes. See P: What(s? Yeah. R: U(F). We cook them in rice. P: G(A). R: Masambe P: Mesambe. R: Yes. You see. P: Yes. It the green you eat. R: Yeah, we scotch them off and we pick them off. [?} P: G(A). R: And then throwing some hot water on it P: G(A). R: And after throwing hot water on it we, we cook it with a back or neck or whatever. P: G(A). R: Make good food. P: That(s interesting. How about trees? R: What kind of trees? P: What kind of trees do you have? R: Mango. We have mango trees. We have lime trees. We have orange trees. P: G(A). R: We have I think in the bush we have coco. P: G(A). R: Coco trees. P: G(A). The bush would be where like up there, up in the mountains. R: Up there, up there.. P: G(A). R: See we have coconut trees. Up there. P: G(A). But you call it the bush up there. R: Yeah, I know, you call it forest. P: G(A). The bush is the forest. R: Yeah. P: OK. That(s what I meant. That(s great. OK. Now I I(d like to ask you about birds. Kinds of bird, we talked about a couple kinds, but talk about. R: We have the dove; we have the pigeon.. P: Yeah. R: We have the ground dove. U(F) I don(t remember another kind of bird just that pick off tic off cattle. P: OK. What about birds on the water. R: You talk birds. Wait a minute. P: The pelican. R: No, we call them pelican, but we call them next name. Boobie. P: Boobie, that(s what I wanted to hear about. OK. Now egrets, we talked abut egrets, but these birds that were here are ducks. .They(re not egrets.. R: Yeah. P: They(re not egrets. R: No, egrets pick the ticks off the cattle. P: And have longer legs, don(t they?. R: Yeah. P: U(F) What kind of doves have you heard of? R: We have mountain dove. P: Yeah. R: We have ground dove. P: G(A). R: We have pigeon. P: G(A). R: Pigeon is the black one. P: G(A). R: We have a couple just fly across here. P: Did you ever hear of a Barbary dove, the kind that jumps? S: barby dove R: Barby dove P: Barby dove. S: Barby dove the same go in the water call them R: You see them go in the water. P: You call them the ground dove? R Yeah P: That(s the one that jumps along? R: G(A). P: That takes these, that jumps around, OK. Now would you tell me about the fish that you can think of. R: Well, in the fish world, we have jacks in the area. P: G(A). R: We have doctor fish. We have barracuda. We have skipjacks. P: G(A). R: I can(t remember all of them. P: Are there a lot of barracudas around? R: Yeah. P: No kidding. R: Yeah. Some of them catch them in the poison too. P: G(A). R: Depends on which ones that catch them, P: You can eat those? R: Well, sure, but a guy know who to eat them from. P: U(L). What do you mean, R: Cause if somebody willful, you know, they go off of the bar. P: G(A). R: They catch one, they bring it, and they tell you mine just catch off of the bar. P: U(L). R: And when you don(t eat it, maybe you had white. P: G(A). Yeah. R: Or maybe you instead of you maybe got to go to the hospital. P: G(A). R: Cause they are dangerous. P: They(re dangerous; you mean the meat is sometimes poisonous? R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. P: I see. R: Because some people studying, well, when you going to eat a barracuda, they(re not sure. P: G(A). Yeah. R: You have in cockaroachy. P: G(A). Yeah. Really? R: Some kind of cockaroachy, you know. P: G(A). What about animals? R: Well, we have sheep. We have cattle. P: You have these, R: Yeah. We have goats. P: Yeah. R: And I ain(t seen none so far myself, but they say we have a think, what they call them, deer. P: G(A). R: Over Frigate Bay. P: Yeah, that what the man was saying, Mr XXX, was telling me that this morning about, with antlers. R: Yeah. P: What about different kinds of lizards? R: We have the ground lizard. We have the tree lizard. P: G(A). R: And we have your wood lizard. P: Do you have any lizards that are dangerous? R: Well, some people say the ground lizards are dangerous. P: G(A). R: Because if we get in a way they can(t get out and they see you P: G(A). R: And you try to bother and you can(t get out. P: G(A). R: They plunge on you. P: .Yeah, but they(re not poisonous, as far as you know. R: No, no, as far as me know. P: OK. I(m going to ask you this now. We may go on a little longer, but I want to ask you this now in case the won(t start up when I turn it over. This just for pronunciation. I want you to count for me from one to fourteen, slowly, not too slowly, but loud enough so it can be heard. R: One, two. P: That(s good. R: Three, four five, six, seventh, eighth, nine ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. P: Great. Now the number after nineteen. The number after nineteen is. R: Twenty. P: The number after twenty-nine.. R: Thirty. P: The number after thirty-nine. R: Forty. P: The number after sixty-nine. R: That would be seventy. P: And the number after ninety-nine. R: One, zero, zero. P: That(s right but how? R: Hundred. P: Yes, and then the number after nine hundred and ninety-nine. R: Thousand. P: OK. Now would you say the days of the week. R: We have Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. P: OK. And the months of the year. R: January, February, March, April, May, June and July, August and September, October and November, and here(s come December. P: OK. That(s fine. Now I want the number, as we talk about them,say, in a month, like today is the sixteenth. R: G(A). P: In the beginning of the month would be the what? R: The first. P: And then. That(s right that(s exactly right. So say the first and then the next day. R: The second. P: Then. R: Third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth. P: That(s it. Thank you. Now there are just a couple of other things I(d like to ask you about. Have you noticed any changes in weddings, the way weddings are conducted. Of course, you(re not an expert on weddings, are you U(L). R: U(L). P: U(L). R: U(L). No. I could answer you. P: Yeah, OK. Do. R: But it(s not vital to say it. P: Yeah. R: Why. Let me show you. P: Yeah. R: Weddings they do today, they don(t stand up. P: G(A). R: Like once. Weddings used to have a more matured weddings. P: G(A). R: U(F)For instance, as a get up today. P: G(A). R: Once you never used to marry so quick to a man. P: G(A). R: You got to feel out a man first. You got to do some kind of work. P: Yeah. R: A man got to do some kind to get that woman, P: Yeah. R: And you aint seen the woman. P: G(A). R: That(s they call tradition. P: G(A). R: Well, if that tradition is to run on. P: G(A). R: I feel to myself, wedding would have last longer. P: G(A). I see. That(s good. How about the way the weddings were, the wedding process, has that changed much over the years? R: Yeah. It change a lot. P: How? R: Change a lot. Well, I would say that, I got to say this. The weddings now is hustle. You get to somebody, You got to marry, P: Hostile, you say U(L). R: Hustle, hustle weddings. P: Oh, hustle weddings. R: Hurry wedding. P: In a hurry, G(V)? You mean you are forced into it. R: Yeah, that mean you force the man into it. P: G(A). R:Wish to do. P: I see. That(s called a hustle wedding. R: Yeah, we call it. U(F) If you forcing a man now P: G(A). R: Because you give him a good opportunity to the first. P: Yeah. R: Maybe you see, you to marry because, you know. P: Yeah. R: Che, che, che, che, che [=blah, blah, blah] P: Yeah. I see. OK. How about funerals? Have they changed much? R: Well, to me, yes. I would say this. Funeral once ago used to get help from the estate. P: G(A). R: But now since the funeral home come in. P: Yeah. R: They is too costly. P: G(A). R: They aint tell them that you take somebody and bury them for ten thousand dollars. P: Yeah. I see R: And the box aint worth ten thousand dollars. P: Yeah. R: Just for your reference, eh?. P: It(s really commercial now. R: Yeah, it(s too big. P: Yeah. R: Funeral is too big. Funeral is too expensive. P: Yeah. OK. I want to ask you about an expression that I heard. Have you ever heard the expression an :Aunty Man(? R: U(L). P: Have you ever heard that term? R: Yeah, yeah. P: OK What does it mean? R: Aunty Man mean U(F) that a person going with another man,. P: OK. Right, so homosexual. R: Yeah. P: But I heard it used about the hurricane Lenny. because Lenny came the wrong way, so Lenny was an Aunty Man,. R: Yeah, because U(F) Lenny came the back way. P: U(L) OK, I see. R: Lenny came the back way. P: That(s great. R: We were looking for Lenny to come so, Lenny come and hit us from the back. P: That(s terrific. R: So that(s why they use the word Aunty Man Lenny. P: Aunty Man Lenny, that(s great. What was the worst hurricane you remember?. R: Well, in my days, everybody talk about 1927, aint see it. P: Yeah R: Cause before my time. P: Was before your time. R: I could tell you. P: G(A). R: Hugo P: Yeah R Was the worst hurricane. P: Yeah. R: We get two hurricane, one after the other, P: Hugo came right over St. Kitts? R: Yeah, Hugo mess up St, Kitts. P: Yeah. R: And then you had another, what was it Carlton? S: You had Hugo, then you had Marilyn [1995]. R: Hugo and Marilyn mash us up, man. P: Is that right? R: My ghut side. You see, we are the town guard for St. Kits. P: Yeah, R: Because if never had the ghuts and we never downgrade, St. Kitts would be mashed up. P: G(A). I see. Yeah. Was Georges pretty bad? R: Well, I think George aint bad. Georges. P: Georges wasn(t that bad. R: No. Georges aint too bad too ui. P: And Lenny wasn(t too bad. R: U(S). P: Was Lenny bad? 524 R: Hugo and Lenny. P: Lenny was really bad? R: G(A). P: Which direction did Lenny come from? It came from U(I). R: I think Lenny come from that side, Antigua. P: G(A). R: But, you know, you what save us a lot. That little piece of hill of there.. P: G(A). R: Cause when she lift it. P: G(A). R: Shr went over. P: G(A). R: And we just get the tail. P: Yeah.. End of Side A. Start Side B P: Does it make any difference which side? R: Yeah, yeah. It make it different. Let(s deal with Lenny. P: Yeah. R: Lenny stayed down at St. Martin and extend an arm across the shores. P: Yeah. R: Because when he find St. Martin was cold. P: Yeah. R: And St. Kitts was hot. P: Yeah. R: So he couldn(t move. P: G(A). R: And that( s why he stay down there so long. P: G(A). R: And he(s staying across the shores. P: G(A). R: And that day he dig until when we reach up the island. P: G(A). And the slower it moves across U(I) R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. P: The more damage, the more punishing damage. R: Yeah, yeah. P: Is it raining all the time? R: Well, you had some rain, but usually, the sea shores. The sea were high. P: G(A). R: So he bounce it more to the land and take in. P:G(A) OK, well that(s great. END of Interview