17. 1/08/03 Ottley(s Village. Elaine XXX. 72; POB: L. Ed .8th grade. Occ. cane laborer/cook/butcher. YA: 0/short visits to islands, Barbados; St. Croix, visiting relatives. Ancestry: M;L/P:Nevis. Spouse: L Interview: 8 January, 2003 Initial Transcript: 29 July, 2003/ Ottley(s Village, St. Kitts Lee Pederson: (P: prompter) Elaine XXX (R: primary respondent) Lovette XXX, PG(s daughter (S: secondary respondent) G(A): Grunt, affirmation G(N): Grunt, negation G(Q): Grunt, question, (Is that right?(; (You don(t say( G(V) Grunt, seeking verification. (Say what?( U(C): Utterance, cough U(F): Utterance, false start U(H): Utterance, hesitation U(I): Utterance, interruption U(L): Utterance, laughter U(M) Utterance muffled, inaudible. U(S) Utterance of surprise ( ) Deleted phoneme, word, or phrase P: The date? R: Today(s the seventh of eighth. P: Today(s the eighth. R: Eighth. P: Of R: January. P: Nineteen. R: Two thousand three. P: Two thousand three. You got that right. OK. U(F). Where were you born? R: Right here in Ottley(s Village. P: G(A). R: On up over there. P: Over the hill? R: You see that one house right from there. P: Yeah. R: That where I born. P: That close. U(L). That(s wonderful. And how old are you? R: Seventy-two. P: Seventy-two. We(re the same age. R: U(L). P: And what about your occupation? R: Well, I used to been a laborer. P: G(A). R: And from a laborer I was getting children and had nobody to help me with them. P: G(A). Yeah. R: So I had so I had to stop and I was a butcher. P: G(A). I see. R: From a butcher I went, used to cook, blood pudding and all them kind of things. P: Oh, really, I want to talk to you about that. That(s interesting. R: Yeah. P: What kind of labor did you do? R: G(Q)? P: In the cane? R: In the cane. P: What did you do? R: First, I used to work in the gang. P: G(A). R: After that I work down the line, cleaning the siding. P: G(A). R: Sometime I work on the truck, handing the cane in truck. P: G(A). R: And some of the time when crop [0] over, go back and get with the gang. P: G(A). R: And after where we leave, I went and drive [join?] the gang then. P: G(A). R: I went and I dropped plants. P: G(A). R: All those kind of thing. P: G(A). That(s dropping soda? R: Yes. P: G(A). R: Well, gang soda. P: Yeah. R: The gang them [drop] soda. P: Ok. Gee, that(s U(I). R: But I drop plants P: OK. R: For the cane to grow. P: Did you go to school here in Ottley? R: Yeah, not in, well, we had a little private school here in Ottley(s. P: G(A). R: But it wasn(t for when you grow up. From five to ten age year. P: I see. R: Then we had to go to Cayon. P: Cayon, yeah. R: G(A). P: So the little boys now go to Cayon. R: Yes. P: In the green shirts? R: Yeah. P: And the brown pants. R: No, the green shirt is Lodge Project. P: Oh, OK. R: The brown is Cayon. P: U(L). R: Two schools in Cayon. The high school and the junior. P: I see. Where(s your mother from? R: Right here in Ottley(s Village. P: Is that right. R: Yes. P: And do you know where her parents are from? R: Right here in Ottley(s Viallge. P: Really. How about your father? R: My father was from Nevis. P: Is that right. U(L). And your father(s from Nevis, that(s great. And his parents were from Nevis? R: Yes. P: Tell me about your children. R: I have ten children. Five boys and three girls alive. And two die. P: I see. Tell me about them. R: One live just across the road here. P:G(A). R: By the name of Burnhart. He married and he have a wife. And three children. P: G(A) R: One live at Lodge Project. P: G(A). R: He have three children, one girl and two boys. One live right here. P: G(A). R: She have two boys. P: G(A). R: Another one gone to Nevis. P: G(A). R: She have two girls. P: How old is she, the one living down here? R:She is thirty-five. P: Thirty-five. R: Yeah. P: OK. I see. That(s interesting. Were you ever married? R: Yes. P: Tell me about your husband. R: He die. P: What did he do? R: He used to run taxi. P: Is that right? R: Yes. Carry passengers to town and from town.. P: I see, out of Ottley(s. R: Right through the island. P: I see.. R: And after he used to work on ground in Sadler(s, working on cane plant and everything. P: Oh, really. Yeah R: Yes, until he got sick with his heart, P: Oh. R: And he die after. P: I see. R: He die last year. P: Oh, really. R: October. P: I(m sorry. That(s too bad. Had he been sick for a long time.? R: Yes. P: G(A). Lingering illness, G(Q)? R: Yes, he was lingering for quite a while. P: I see, Tell me about your work as a butcher, R: Well, I used to go to town to buy the animal that come down from Nevis. P: G(A). P: And we butcher them. P: G(A). R: And sell the meat. P: G(A). R: Cook goat water and thing like that. P: Yeah. R: Yeah. P: Oh U(F). You took the animals and actually not only butchered them and dressed them, but also prepared meat U(I). R: Made meat, yes. P: Made food, I see. What kind of animals did you butcher? R: We used to butcher cattle. P: Yeah. R: Sheep and goat. P: G(A). R: And pigs. P: I see. You did all of them? R: All, yeah. P: Tell me a little about that blood pudding that you made. R: Oh, U(L). Well, we get the blood from the animal. P: From any one of those animals? R: Any one can do. P: OK. R: And you get the rice, you cook the rice. P: G(A). R: And you get your herbs and thyme your seasoning, shall I say. P: Yeah, R: And you mix the blood and the rice and the seasoning together. P: G(A). R: You get the belly, the striped [tripe?] and you full it with it and you boil it. P: I see. It(s just like a sausage? R: Yeah.. P: G(A). R: Like sausage, right, like a sausage. P: I got you, I see. Tell me your recipe for goat water. R: Oh. P: Your own recipe. R: U(L). Well, you cut your meat into suit however you want it. P: Yeah, R: You boil them up; you use herbs, thyme, a little pepper. You do a little flour to bring it in [NB=to thicken it]. and sturdy like. P: G(A). R: Boil your season, whatever, black clove or whatever you like. Whatever flavor you like. P: G(A). Right, I see. R: And you do them. P: It comes out; it(s something like a stew. R: Yes. It(s a stew. P: And do you eat breadfruit? R: Yes. P: OK. You know, I never tasted breadfruit until last night. I went over to a guy(s house for dinner last night. And he had ribs and breadfruit and it tasted to me, he boiled it, I think, and it tasted a lot like boiled potatoes. R: Yes. P: Very much. R: Yes. P: Very good. I was afraid I wouldn(t like it, but it(s delicious. R: It tastes nice. P: I can see why people like it, yeah. R: Well, we does make breadfruit salad. P: G(A). R: With the breadfruit. P: Yeah. R: We make breadfruit pie. P: Yeah. R: With the breadfruit, you make different things. P: Really. R: Yeah. P: Tell me about a breadfruit pie. R: I don(t do that. I never do that. P: Oh. R: She down the stair. She the chef so she make them thing. P: You don(t know how it(s made, what she puts in it? R: No. P: Is it a sweet pie? Or is it U(I). R: Just an ordinary U(I). P: More like a sweet potato pie. R: Yes. P: I see, except it(s with breadfruit. R: Yes. P: Is that right. That(s interesting. R: She do pumpkin pie, she do breadfruit pie, she do potato pie. P: Yeah. R: All those, she does. P: That(s interesting. R: G(A). P: That(s great. Do you know anything about U(F). As far as you know, your mother(s family was always from Ottley(s, you don(t know of anything before that? R: Well. P: Where they came from? R: The came from Ottley(s. P: Yeah. R: My grandfather came from, let me see now, Eustatius. P: G(A). R: My grandfather from Eustatius. P: G(A) R: His name was Arnold XXX. P: Arnold XXX. R: Yeah. P: That was your mother(s grandfather. R: Yes. My mother father. P: What was your maiden name. R: My maiden name was Elaine. P: OK. R: Elaine XXX. P: OK. R: Elaine XXX P: OK. You were Elaine XXX. R: And then XXX. P: I interviewed a man in Upper U(I). R: Monkey Hill? P: Yeah. Do you know him? R: Yeah. P: He(s a bout fifty years old. Do you know him? R: Yeah. P: He works as a security U(I). R: A security guard, yeah. P: What(s his relation to you? R: Well, I really don(t know. P: U(L), just his name is the same. R: Yeah. P: OK. And how do you spell, how do you spell your first name? R: E-L-A-I-N-E. P: That(s what I would have guessed. R: Yes. P: Then I wanted to ask you about travel. Have you been off the island ever? R: Yes, I do. P: OK. Tell me about your travel. R: I travel from here to Barbados the first time P: G(A). How old were you at that time? About? R: Sixty-nine. P: Nineteen sixty-nine? R: I was sixty nine years old. P: I see. Sixty-nine years old. R: Yeah. P: Just a couple of years ago then? R: Yes, just a few years ago. P: G(A). R: I went to get a visa. P: G(A). R: So I went to St. Croix. P: G(A). R: When I came back. P: G(A). R: In the year two thousand. P: G(A). R: I spend some time with my sister and my brother. I have six brother down there. P: G(A). R: And I came back. P: G(A). R: And I went back again, October last P: To St. Croix. R: Yes, St. Croix. P: And that(s the only travel you have done? R: Yes. P: How long were in St. Croix? R: Well, the first time I was there for two months. P: G(A). R: And the second time I was there for five weeks. P: I see. You said your brother and sister. How many brothers and sisters did you have? R: I had eight in all. P: Tell me about them. R: Some of them die. P: Sure, tell me about them when they were younger. R: Well, I had a brother in England. P: G(A). R: And a sister. P: G(A). R: But both of them die now. P: G(A). R: They die, they leave childrens [NB] up there. P: G(A). R: I have two brothers in St. Croix and one sister. P: I see. Do they ever come and visit you? R: Yes. P: That(s nice. R: My brother was here. p: G(A). R: My brother was here for Christmas. P: G(A). R: He just gone back Friday. P: So, both times you went to St. Croix, you stayed at your U(I). R: Sister. P: Sister(s house. R: Yeah. P: Did you find St. Croix very different from U(I). R: St. Kitts? P: St. Kitts. R: Yes. P: How? R: Well, the people down there, probably because the people down there [0] people who I know. P: G(A). R: So it was different for me. P: But you like St. Croix? R: And I love St. Croix too. P: And you like them both? R: Yes. P: Yes. And you like to travel. R: Yes. P: You(re a traveler. R: Yes. P: You think you(ll do some more? R: Yes. P: U(L). Do some more traveling, G(Q) R: Yes. I use to go again sometime this year. [NB use to=hope to] P: G(A). That sounds good. I keep looking at this thing [tape recorder] because when I was over, what was that lady(s name, that I was talking to. Do you know her name. R: Princess. P: What(s her name. R: Princess. P: Princess. Anyway, I was talking to her and my tape recorder wouldn(t work. R: Oh. P: U(L) So I keep looking here. It(s working OK now. I put a different tape in; it(s all right. Now I(d like you to tell me a little bit about your childhood. Do you remember the kinds of things you did when you were small. R: Lot a things. P: Tell me. Anything you can remember. R: From age of ten, I used to go, leave from Ottley(s Village go to town every morning. P: G(A). R: With a bucket of milk on me head. P: G(A). R: Sell because me father and them had cattle. P: G(A). R: Most people around here they own animal. P: G(A). R: Used to have to go to town to get milk sold. P: I see. R: Walk into town and come back. P: Did you sell the milk in town? R: Yes. P: How did you sell it. Did you sell it by the whole bucket? R: Well, somebody used to take the whole bucket, and they sell it by the bottle. P: I see. You sell that to like a shop keeper. R: Yes, P: I see. R: A shopkeeper, oh yes. P: That(s walking into Ottley(s Village. How far is it from here? R: Seven miles. P: Seven miles. Ottley(s Village? R: Yes. P: But this is Ottley(s Village also? R: Yes. P: Did you walk seven miles? R: Till I was fourteen, I had to walk. P: Seven miles every morning. U(L). R: And still have to come back and go to school. P: My goodness. What time did you start that? What time did you do that? R: I get up five o(clock every morning. P: G(A). And walk seven miles. R: Yes. P: Each way? R: Yeah. P: And the, what time did school start? R: Nine thirty. P: Nine thirty. U(L). R: Or nine o(clock. P: Then you U(I). R: Some of the time I see a man by the name of Simeon Bush. P: G(A). R: Used to drive a truck. P: G(A). R: From Spooners. P: G(A). R: Would carry cotton oil and cotton seeds and cotton too. Go over to make clothing, anything like that. P: G(A). R: Some of the time he bring all of us back home. P: G(A). R: When we come in from town. P: G(A). I see, so sometimes you got a ride.,m G(Q)? R: Yes. P: That(s still an awful walk. And how long did you go to school? R: I went to school until I (w)as seventeen. P: Seventeen, huh? R: Yes. P: And all in Ottley(s or Cayon. R: Ottley(s to Cayon. P: Cayon. And did you have to walk there? R: Yes. P: How far is it to walk to Cayon? R: From here to Cayon is roughly two miles. P: Oh, two miles. R: Yes. P: So Cayon(s closer than U(I). R: Yes. P: How can Cayon be closer than Ottley(s Village? If we(re in Ottley(s Village now? R: Just two miles. P: G(A). R: From here to Cayon. P: Beyond. That(s two miles from right here. R: Yes. P: So you go through Cayon to get to Ottley(s Village to U(I)? R: To town. P: To town. Yes, but this neighborhood here is part of Ottley(s Village. R: Yes. Right up the hill. P: G(A). Those places up there on the hill. R: Over there? P: Way up there. Yes. R: That is hotel, Ottley(s. P: Oh, that(s Ottley(s. R: Ottley(s Plantation. P: Yeah, I(ve heard of that. R: They have a hotel up there. P: I(ve heard of that. R: Yeah. P: OK, do you remember any of the games you played as a child? R: Oh, my. U(L). P: Tell me about it or go ahead. R: We play rounders. P: G(A). R: We play cricket. P: G(A). R: We pitch marbles. P: G(A). R: So like the games. P: G(A). R: Those are the only three games that I U)I). P: G(A). Tell me about rounders. R: Well, somebody out there with the ball and they bowl and you knock the ball and run around and you have the pole. P: G(A). R: We run around. P: I see. R: Run around the pole. P: And you bat the ball with your fist. R: Yes. P: Right, OK. And cricket you played with U(I). R: A bat. P: Was that windball cricket? R: Yes, sometime we take breadfruit. P: Really R: We take it. Yes. P: Used a breadfruit. R: We couldn(t afford to buy ball, weren(t plentiful like now. P: G(A). But a breadfruit would hold up. You hit it a few times. R: Small breadfruit maybe. P: U(L). R: Sometime a orange. P: U(L). R: A summer orange. Anything like that. We play ball. P: Is that right. R: Sometime we make me own ball with the tread. We fill it up with stone. P: Bicycle tires, cut that up sometimes. R: Right, right. P: Yeah, I(ve heard of that. Now, tell me some other things you remember doing as a child.. Besides playing games. Could you tell me what school was like? R: Well, school was good, good enough. P: G(A). R: Of course, the school was different to now. P: G(A). R: U(F) We learn arithmetic. P: G(A). R: We learn to read. P: G(A). R: We learn, we learn, (for)got it, now. P: They learn math, I suppose. R: Math with everything. 241 P: Yeah. Arithmetic and writing. R: And reading, dictation. Dictation they called it. P: When you went. Like stenography, G(Q)? R: Yes. P: But you went to school until you were seventeen? R: Yes. P: Is that right? R: G(A). P: And is that when you started working in the cane. R: Well, I went to work when I [0] nineteen. P: G(A). R: Because my grandmother was sick. P: G(A). R: And my mother had a young baby, so I had to stop from school P: I see. R: To help look after my grandmother. P: I see. R: So I went back to school at nineteen and I went until I seventeen [?] P: I see. But do you remember other things going to school. R: We used to work grounds. P: G(A). R: Used to so agriculture. P: G(A). R: My father had piece of ground, all up the White(s Mountain. P: G(A). R: He had piece over Spooners Mountain. P: G(A). Tell me about these mountains. Which mountain is which? R: This one here is Brighton Mountain. P: Brighton. R: This one here is Ottley(s Mountain. P: That(s the high one? R: Yes. This one over is Lodge Mountain P: G(A). R: That one over there is Spooners Mountain. P: G(A). R: The one over there is Dale Mountain. P: Over there? R: That one there is Dale Mountain.. P: Separate that(s different, OK. R: Yes. P: OK. R: But you know all the mountains joined but U(I). P: Have you ever been up in those mountains? R: G(V)? P: Have you been up in those mountains? R: Oh, yes. Yes. P: All the way to the top? R: No. P: U(L). R: No. P: Tell me what you did with your father(s piece of land. What U(I). R: Well, it wasn(t his; the estate had given it to workU(I). P: Yeah, he was using it. R: Yeah. P: I understand. R: So when he stop work at the estate, it goes to somebody else according/ P: I see. I see. It was something like. R: Lease. P: A fringe benefit he had because he worked there. R: Yes. P: And what estate were they working, was that Ottley(s Estate or did it have another name? R: Well, my father used to work at Hermitage Estate. P: Hermitage Estate, yeah. R: Yeah. P: OK. And what did you do on that plot of land? What kind of things did you plant there? R: Well, we hoe. P: Yeah. R: With a hoe. P: Yeah. R: We plant. We weed. P: Yeah. R: And we reap when they ripe. P: OK. R: We sell them. P: What kinds of things did you plant? R We used to plant potato, tannia, yam. P: Yeah. R: Sugar ear [sweet corn?] P: What(s that? R: Casaba. P: What(s seven year? R: Sitting here. Wait. P: What does it look like? Is it a vegetable? Oh, don(t go all the way down. [seated on landing at top of long flight of stairs to a porch]. R: It(s OK. See. P: Oh, OK . R: Be like broad leaf. P: Oh, yeah, looks like a cob almost. Beneath there(re bananas aren(t there?. R: That is a banana. The one over further. P: G(A). I see. R: And tannias there. P: They grow something like a U(I). R: In the ground. P: And what(s the thing like that grows, like a turnip or a carrot? R: Yeah. P: I see. R: Yeah. P: I see, so it(s like a root. R: yes. P: I see. R: That one is a casaba, P: Yeah, I(ve heard of that. R: Yeah. Bake them, make bread with that, make dumpling and all kind of thing like that. P: With the casaba? R: G(A). P: That set, is that for S-E-V-E-N-Y-E-A-R? R: Yeah. P: Do you know why it(s called that? R: No, but I come they call them seven year, P: OK, I believe it, but I wondered if there was a reason for it, OK. U(F). Where was your husband born? R: He born in the village over they call Garden Ghut. P: Garden Ghut. R: Yeah. P: Yeah. R: That is part of Lodge. P: G(A). OK. I(m kind of turned around. Which way is Basseterre over there? R: .Yeah. P: Yeah, over there. OK. Where did you meet him? R: My husband? P: Yeah, how did you happen to meet him? R: Well, we meet right here from Ottley(s to Lodge. P: G(A). Just met on the street one day. U(L). R: U(L). P: And the rest is history. OK U(L). That(s good. Now I want to ask you some things about stories and things from childhood up. First, about jumbie stories. R: U(L). P: Do you know any? Can you tell me any jumbie stories? R: Well, I don(t know much about them. I only used to hear people say jumbies, but I never seen none. P: Yeah. You never saw one. R: No. P: What did people tell you about them though? What did people say? R: Well, people say jumbie frighten you and all kind of thing like that. P: G(A) R: But I never get in touch with them. P: Did you ever hear of a jumbie fire? R: Yes,, I hear people talk about them. P: Tell me about that. R: I don(t know how, but I hear people say that hey place just catch fire. Nobody could be around how they catch on. P: G(A). R: So they say it(s jumbie fire. P: OK. Did you ever hear of a jumbie crab? R: No. P: Jumbie crab? R: No. P: Jumbie crab(s supposed to be big black crab. This guy told me they put the crab in a bucket and put a big stone over the bucket. R: Yeah. P: They were going to cook the crab the next day. R: Yes. P And they got up the next day and the stone was still there, but the jumbie crab was gone. U(L). So it disappeared. R: We used to have crabs around. P: Is that right? Yeah. R: We catch them and put them in that bucket to kept them wet. P: Yeah. R: And next day we cook them. P: Yeah, R: Cook them two, three days after. P: Right, R: But I never had no dealings with a jumbie crab. P: OK. U(L). That one, I think the neighbor took it. U(L). How about a jack-o-lantern? Did you have jack-o-lanterns up here in the mountains? R: I heard of them. P: Up in the mountains? R: I heard of them when I was a young girl. One night I was going down to Lodge Village. P: G(A). R: And I saw a light down on the bridge, the Indian Bridge [?]. P: G(A). R: So when I axe what it is they told me it is jacky-lantern. P: G(A). R: This bright light, like a fire. P: Yeah, R Like a lamp. P: G(A).. R: And it be after you don(t see it disappear. P: G(A). R: A sight up on the mountain I see, but afterwards you don(t know it disappear. P: Yeah. R: I saw them meself. P: Was that when you were young. R: Yeah. P: Did you see them recently? R: No. Not. I don(t see those these days. P: I just wondered if it had something to do with, it doesn(t get so dark now because of so much light. R: Light. That(s what they say. We don(t see those things anymore. P: Yeah. Yeah, right, so you can(t see them. Did you believe when these people would tell you about jumbies? R: No. P: No Were there any other things like jumbies, besides the jack-o-lantern, that you can think of. R: No. P: The next thing I(d like you to tell me about is kinds of things that you might have made and your mother made for your children for colds and things. Different kinds with roots. R: I do the making. My mother never made it. P: Oh, you did the making. Tell me the stuff you made.. R: U(L). I made all of my children clothes. I made my clothes. P: G(A). R: The girls and boys, I made the clothes. P: I see. No that(s great. No, I was thinking, talking about medicine. The kinds of things you(d make from roots and herbs and grind them up and U(I). R: G(A). P: And make some tea, different kinds of tea. R: Yes. P: Tell me about some of those things you made. R: Well, there certain class a bushes. You boil them; you pick them and you boil them. P: G(A). R: Make tea with them. P: G(A). R: You drink the tea. P: G(A). R: A cold, a fever, and all those things. P: G(A). Could you tell me about some different ones? Specifically. R: They have sage bush. P: G(A). R: They have cattle tongue, try some cattle tongue. P: G(A). R: Have some donkey rub-down. Some them horse rubdown. P: G(A). R: We call some five fingers. We call some pit weed. P(A). R: We call some licorice. We call some. U(I). P: Now you named a bunch, a whole lot of them. Is each one of those used for a different thing? R: Together. P: You put them all together. And what(s U(I). R: Make tea with it. P: G(A). R: You can drink it with water. P: G(A). R: And you can drink as tea. P: I see. And that tea then is a cure for U(I). R: Help for cold. P: G(A). R: Help for fever. P: Do you have anything for boils on the skin? R: Not mine. P: Not that you remember. R: No. P: Someone told me about that. U(F) Did you just go out and pick them fresh or did you U(I)? R: You could dry them. P: Dry them. R: Because I dry them and send them to England for people. P: Yeah. R: I pick bush, dry them, and send them to England for people. P: Really, Is that right. R: Yes. Some friends that I have in England and so on. G(A). R: Send bush to them. P: And they use it, G(Q)? R: Yeah. P: And they just grind it up and make, they know how much to use. R: They boil it just as I tell them. P: And they know how much to use to make the tea? R: Yeah. P: Like a certain amount. R: Amount, yeah. P: It could get too heavy, I suppose. I see. That(s interesting .Now, did they have midwives. Tell me about the midwife. R: Yeah, we used to have midwife.. P: Yeah. Tell me about that. R: When you making a baby. P: Yeah. R: When your time for you to have a baby. P: Yeah. R: And if you call a midwife and midwife come at your home and she deliver you. P: G(A). R: And she come back days after to see if you need. P: Yeah. R: If baby all right and then. P: G(A). R: And thing like that. P: Does she see you before you have the baby or just as you(re having it? Does she come around, like when you first get pregnant? R: No. P: Never talk to her. R: No and then go see. P: Did you have midwives with your babies? R: Yes. P: So you didn(t do anything, you didn(t have anything to do with hospital at all? R: No. P: With your babies? R: Only my last baby had to go to hospital. P: G(A). I see. Did the midwife say you should? R: G(V)? P: Did the midwife recommend it? U(H). What did you go to the hospital? R: Well, I wasn(t used to keep well so I had to go to the doctor. P: G(A). R: So when it me time to have the baby. P: He took you, I see. R: Yes. P: In doctor(s care. R: Yeah. P: I see. I see. That(s interesting. Now I want you to tell me U(H) what your wedding was like. R: U(L). Well, when I got married, I married at Cayon, but there(s the church. P: Yeah. R: And my wedding cake and Hunt Lodge in Cayon. P: G(A). R: We had a thing could have been called the people [?] P: G(A). R: We had goat water. P: G(A). R: We had rice. P: G(A). R: We had salad with breadfruit and all those kind of things. P: G(A). R: At the wedding. Had drinks. P: G(A). R: A nice wedding. P:That(s great. R: G(A). P: Can you tell me about any other celebrations U(H) that you remember in the old days in St. Kitts? For example, I want to ask you about the carnival. R: Well, I never been to carnival. P: Have you heard about them? R: Yes. P: Didn(t they used to come through the villages? R: Not the carnival. P: No, sports, the sports. R: Yes. P: I meant the sports, I(m sorry. R: Yes. P: The sports. R: Yes. P: Tell me about the sports that you remember. R: We used t have macajumbie P: Yeah. R: And a stick, two stick. P: Yeah. R: We had clown. P: G(A). R: We had bulls. P: G(A). R: We had Mummies. P: Yeah. R: You know, all those tell about [inaud: daddy?], people(s business and so on. P: Yeah. R: Call it Nigger Business, all them kind of thing. P: What kind of business was that called. R: Well, you know sometime a husband and wife have contention in the home. P: Yeah. R: Somebody may be outside listening. P: Yeah. R: Probably you might tell somebody and the somebody take it and P: Yeah. Do you remember what they called that? R: Yeah, daddy. P: Daddy? R: Yeah. P: You(re daddy when you tell the business? R: Yeah P: And telling people(s business, I see. R: Yes. P: How about things from the Bible? Remember that? R: They had Goliath. We used to have Goliath, but they don(t play too much from the Bible. P: No. R: They put in their own words. P: Yeah, right, yeah. I understand. R: G(A). P: And now it(s really more, it(s all turned into a kind of a carnival. R: Carnival, yeah. P: And Bradshaw, I understand, had something to do with having them get away from the sports. Because he said it was a waste of money. R: Of money, yeah. P: What did you think of Bradshaw? R: G(V)? P: What did you think of Bradshaw? R: Well, he was trying to improve the country. P: Yeah. R: Instead of going round and going round, they have it in the town. P: Yeah. R: And the park and different thing like that so people goes daily different game. P: So it works out better, you think. R: Yes, I think so. P: OK. That(s good. You never participated in the sports either. R: No, never. P: Did your husband? R: Yes, he used to play mummy. P: Plays mummies, is that right. R: Yes, when he was a young man.. P: U(L). How about your children? R: None of them. P: None of them? R: No. They play cricket. P: G(A). R: And they play football. P: G(A). R: But none of them in the sport. P: And do any of your children come back to St. Kitts for the carnival? R: My children, most of them live here P: G(A). R: Only one child I have. P: Who lives in England? R: My brother and sister both in England.. P: I see. R: But they die now. P: I see. Do they have children? R: Yes, and live there. P: Do you know where they live in England? R: London. No, Leeds. P: Leeds, oh, really. R: Yeah. P: That(s where, who? R: The XXX in Leeds. P: Yeah, I was talking to someone from Leeds. He(s a welder. As a matter of fact, he(s down here. I was over with Merchie. I don(t know if you know Merchie, Merchie runs the Five Ways in Basseterre. R: G(A). P: Anyway he was visiting him, and this guy was a welder in Leeds, but he(s from St. Kitts and he came for about five weeks. It(s funny, the XXX and then Leeds. R: Yes. P: It(s kind of interesting. R: Yeah. P: Now. R: Well, if you hear about the XXX in Leeds. P: How do you spell that name? R:XXX P: Gaskin, OK. Ok. That was your family. R: Yes. P: OK, that(s great. U(F) You told me about working as a laborer in sugar, tell me, kind of go through, what I(m really interested in the names in the process of making sugar. R: The sugar making in the factory I wouldn(t know. P: OK, but what do you know about the working in the field? R: Well, they plant the cane. P: Yeah. R: And they keep them clean and weed them, so that the growing come up. P: G(A). R: Then they cut them and they send them to the factory P: Yeah. R: And the factory grind them. P: Yeah. R: And make the sugar. P: I see. OK. Do you know what magasse is? R: Yeah. P: What is that? R: The husk from the cane. P: G(A). The trash. It(s the trash. R: Husks. It comes from the sugar cane. P: OK. Do you call magasse or bagasse? R: Magasse. P: Magasse, OK. R: Yeah. P: U(F). And what(s mud? R: Mud is the scum when they boil the sugar. P: Yeah. R: The scum from the sugar. P: I see, and they skim that off and they U(I) R: Yeah. P: And they use that as fertilizer? R: Yes. P: And it(s called mud. Now that(s something you told me. People have been talking to me about mud, and I didn(t know what it was. U(L). You gave a very U(I). R: That(s scum from the sugar P: G(A). R: And they strain it. P: G(A). R: And take it and dump it outside P: G(A). R: For a while and then they take it back. P: G(A). Did you ever work with the magasse or the mud when they bring that back to the field. R: Country, yeah. P: What did you do with that? What was your job? To spread it? R: Spread it and the cane field, get down U(I). P: With what? R: Most of the time we have to do with the hand U(L). P: I see. R: Sometime, well, they have them by the heap, heap, up the magasse. P: G(A). R: And you see them by blocks. [in box?] P: Yeah. R: After a while, they loose them out. P: Yeah. R: They spread them. P: G(A). R: They have far to take them up. P: G(A). R: And throw them in a basket. P: G(A). R: And you with the basket go and spread them in the field. P: I see. I see. R: I did all of that. P: Is that right. U(F). During what months did you do the weeding? R: From the time the cane plant. P: G(A). R: You weed until maybe August. P: G(A). R: From August the let them remain until cut them. P: G(A). R: January or February, you cut. P: G(A). The crops come in at different times, different months? R: Well. P: Always the same? R: Sometime crops start February. P: G(A). R: Sometimes January according to U(I). P: G(A). R: The crop, but now they don(t have that big amount of crops like once ago NB. P: Yeah. R: All here was cane fields. P: Yeah. So all of this area in here was cane? R: Cane, yes. P: Were these houses all here? R: Was cane. P: Was cane. R: I work in all these field here. P: And you lived right back there then. R: No, I live over on the other side there. P: Others side of the hill. R: Over there, the village was. P: OK. Is that where Ottley(s Village is? R: Yes. P: And which direction, U(F), where(s Cayon, which direction is that? R: That. P: That way. R: Back to town, yeah. P: OK, and what about Lodge? R: That way. P: That way, OK. R: Yeah. P: Is that also the way to Sadler(s too. R: OK. P: OK. I got it now. Now I understand where I am, OK. U(L). R: Yes. P: OK, that(s great. Tell me about the kinds of grasses and weeds that you(d have to get out of the U(I). R: Out of the cane field? P: Yeah. R: We have guinea grass would grow in the cane field. P: Yeah. R: You have long grass. P: G(A). R: Like those grass over there. P: G(A). R: See that over there where the goat is? P: Yeah. R: And sheep is? P: yea, right. R: They have goat beneath the hill; they have bushes. P: G(A). R: Like that kind of bush. P: OK. Is that a goat there? R: A sheep. P: A sheep. The brown one. R: Yes. P: OK. And that(s U(I). R: The sort of grass you find in the cane field. P: G(A). But they go through, this cane here. R: It(s cane. P: They go through there and keep it out? R: Yes. P: Do people do that regularly, go in there and keep that clean? R: Yeah. P: This is a small kind of patch, isn(t it? R: Yeah. P: But that belongs to U(I). R: Lodge Estate. P: Lodge Estate, G(Q)? R: Yeah, P: G(A). U(F). You showed me what the grass looked like, but U(I). R: Yes. P: Tell me again the names of it, the kinds of grass. R: Guinea grass. P: Guinea grass. R: Long grass. P: Long grass. R: And we had another kind of grass, we called them, P: G(A). R: Well, most likely you find the guinea grass U(I). P: What was the kind of grass that would grow into the root? R: Guinea grass. P: Guinea grass. R: Guinea grass. P: And that(s really dangerous. R: It can keep down the cane and kill it. P: Kill it. R: Killed it. P: G(A). OK. So those grasses, those are the only grasses you can U(I). R: Yes. P: G(A). R: And you have French weed and so on. P: OK. What(s French weed? Now don(t (go down the steps and find some), just tell me what it(s like. R: I think if I show it to you. P: If you describe it. R: I would describe it to you, but I think I would show it to you. P: U(L). R: Let me go find a piece to show you. P: All right. [she goes down the stairs and returns] This is French weed? R: Yes. P: And that grows flat along the ground? R: Yes. P: Like a vine almost. R: Right. P: Except it grows, it creeps, like a creeper, G(Q)? R: Yes. P: G(A). R: This goes all over. P: Yeah, I(ve sen this stuff before. U(L). R: Used to pull these for animals. P: G(A). R: To eat, yeah. P: And it(s called French grass, yeah, that sure looks a lot like stuff we have at home. It;s very troublesome. These grow down. R: Yeah, in a smaller piece these grow. P: Yeah, and it locks itself into the ground. R: Yeah. P: Yeah, you pull it out; that(s wonderful. R: You plant and then the plant, and it hard to get out. P: G(A). Any other weeds you can think of? R: No. P: OK. Now, tell me about some other things you cook besides goat water and blood pudding. Tell me some other things, some other recipes. Give me a couple recipes. R: Well, those are what I used to do. P: G(A). R: But there are other people who in my day were doing chickens and things like that. P: G(A). R: But now they have chickens. P: G(A). R: Sometime they have sparerib and different kind of U(I). P: G(A). R: Thing like that. P: G(A). Did you make any other kinds of stew. R: No. P: Beside goat water, that was the only kind. R: Goat or beef, call all goat water. P: Even if it(s beef, oh, I see. R: Yeah. P: You call it goat water even if it(s beef and don(t use any goat at all. Or you use pork. R: No. We only bake pork. P: G(A). R: We don(t use pork for stew business NB P: I see. R: We cook the pork for eating differently. P: I see. Tell me about some of those. R: The pork? P: Yeah. R: You slice into however you want then. P: G(A). R: And you season then with what seasoning you want. P: Yeah. R: And you bake them. P: Yeah, R: And you make a little gravy or something on it. P: G(A). R: Like stew, and you use it just like that. P: I see. I see, G(A). But when you would slaughter, butcher, these animals. R: Animals, yes. P: Did you use a freezer? R: Yes. P: You kept them all. R: Yes. P: You kept it, but did you sell off everything you dressed or did you keep some? R: Well, I keep some, and, well, what I don(t sell. P: G(A). R: I keep then. P: I see, R: For a week. P: G(A). R: And sell them accordingly. P: G(A). And do people sell you the animals that you(re going to butcher? R: Yes. And I used to rear animal; I used to rear a lot of animal. P: Yeah. U(F). Oh, you raise them. R: I used to raise and I used to buy. P: I see. R: Nevis people used to bring down to sell. P: I see. R: So I go to town and buy. P: U(F). What did you charge to slaughter a hog, a big hog, and dress it? R: Well, my brothers used to help me. P: Yeah. R: And after my brother my children them help men. P: G(A). R: So I never used to have to pay to do that. P: No, I mean not what did you used to have to pay, what they had to pay you for doing it. I mean, if I brought you a hog, what would you charge me/ R: Well, I didn(t do none like that. P: Oh. R: Now there is to do [inaud] P: G(A) R: In there, P: So they were already killed when you got them. R: Yeah, P: I see. How did they kill them? Slit their throats or did they shoot them? R: They shoot some and they slit some too. P: Yeah. Right. U(F). The reason I ask is who were talking about the blood pudding and so that suggests, that something U(I). R: You slaughter them. P: Right after they were killed. R: You catch the blood. P: Did you do that then? R: Yes. P: Oh, so you did slaughter, slice their throats. R: Yeah, slaughter. P: Then you hang them up? R: Yeah. P: You hang them up. R: And slip them down. P: You need some big guys to help you. R: Yeah. P: That(s hard work. U(L). R: U(L). Yeah, there been a lot of hard work, P: Yeah, I(ll bet it is. I(ll bet it is hard work. R: We live at the hard work, but you U(I). P: G(A). R: Too many bellies, you had to do something. P: Absolutely. I can sure understand that. How long did you do that, that butchering? R: About twenty, twenty-five years. P: Is that right? R: yes. P: And how old were you when you started, would you say? R: I was in my thirties. P: Thirties. I see. So your middle life there you did that. R: Yeah. P: Did you have a shop someplace? R: Well. P: Where did you work out of? R: I had a little bar up here.where I sell. P: I see. A little bar. Road stand, you mean. R: Yeah. P: Yeah. R: Right down in my home. P: Is that right? R: Yeah. P: Where is your house? Can you show me from here. R: U)L). I will show you. P: From here. R: But it(s. P: Can(t see it, well direction, basically. R: Come, let me show you. P: OK, I(ll look. R: See where that galvanized down at the bottom there?. P: Yeah. R: That(s my house. P: OK. I can see that. R: See that one ago [=next to it] that(s my neighbor NB P: G(A). R: When you go up the road, and you look over. P: G(A). R: And can see. P: Can see it. So it(s that one right in there? R: Yes. The white one. P: G(A). The galvanized one, is that it? R: Yes, that(s my house. P: The yellow thing in front of it, what(s that? R: The yellow thing? P: The short. R: Yellow a papaya tree or something. P: It(s a little building or something. R: No, not a building. P U(F). How far up is the galvanized house you(re talking about? Way up there or the one down below it? R: The one down below, the last one down below is mine. P: OK. So you really do live close by. You(ve lived here all your life G(Q)? R: Yeah. P: That(s great. Now I want to ask you about there are just two more things I want to talk to you about, we(re almost finished, I want to talk to you about birds. Tell me about the kinds of birds there are in St.. Kitts. R: We have hummingbirds. We have some we call ground owl. P: G(A). R: We have some we call peat mountain pigeon [?] P: G(A). R: We have some they call them white birds, some young birds. P: G(A). R: Fowls. Fowls, they(re like birds, but we call them fowls. P: How far is the ocean from here? R: Nearly two miles. P: Two miles. So you don(t see any boobies? R: Yes, well, I saw them when I go to town, bu I don(t go down that way. P: Saw what? What did you see? R: The boobies. P: U(F). Are there other kinds of seabirds that you see? R: Only the boobies. P: The boobies. R: And white birds, yeah. P: OK. U(F) Do you cook fish; do you cook a lot of fish? R: Yeah. P: Tell me about the kind of fish that you like. R: I like the one they call thumb [?]. P: G(A). R: Snapper. P: G(A). R: And they have some little long one call they ballyhoo that I like. P: G(A). R: They have goat fish. P: G(A). R: They have bonita. P: G(A). R: They have hind. P: G(A) R: They have jacks. P: G(A) R: They have cavalla. They have different kind of fishes. P: Sprat? R: Sprat P: What was the first one you named. R: Thumb P: How do you spell that? R: T-H-U-M-B. P: Oh, thumb. I got you. How do you prepare those? Do you have any special ways of cooking those? R: Well, with some fries, some boil. P: G(A). R: However you like them. You clean them; you scale off the sides. P: G(A). R: Scale off of them. You season to however you want them. P: G(A). R: According to what flavor you want. P: G(A). R: And you boil them, use onion, use thyme. P: G(A). R: And you [=use] celery or whatever you like. P: I see. R: Garlic. P: G(A). Mostly bake or mostly fry? R: Well, mostly fry. P: Mostly fry, OK. You know, a plant I forgot to ask you about. It has big beautiful U(F) flowers on it; it flowers twice a year. R: Twice a year? P: Twice a year, yeah. Do you know a flower called the flamboyant? R: Yeah. P: Say it. Will you say it? Do you call it that. R: Yeah, they have some flower they call flamboyant. P: Do you ever call it the cock and hen? R: Yeah. P: Is that the same thing? R: Yeah. P: You(re not so sure about that? The poinceana, the flamboyant, the cock and hen are all the same thing. R: I was trying to show you one here. P: U(F). What are some different kinds of animals are there, besides the ones we mentioned? The domestic animals for meat, but how about wild animals. R: Well, they have monkeys. P: Yeah, R: They have mongoose and all them kind of things here. P: Yeah. R: Rats and all them insect. P: What kind of insects? Any that bite? R: Yes, they will bite. P: G(A). R: And they(ll eat what you put down behind, anything like that. P: G(A). And you have like centipedes and scorpions? R: Yes. No scorpion, but centipede. There a lot of centipede. P: Do they bite. R: Yes. They sting. P: U(L). R: And they have roaches. P: Yeah. R: All them kind of thing. P: Yeah. Everybody has roaches. R: Spider. P: Yeah. OK. Now the last thing I want to ask you is about hurricanes, storms. When is hurricane season? R: Hurricane season begins at August to September. P: Yeah. R: And it continue right down to December. P: And what(s the worst hurricane you remember? R: I think it Hurricane George(s). P: Is that right. R: Yes. P: That was just a couple years ago. R: Yes. P: G(A). R: They had one they call Hurricane, eighty-nine? P: How about Hugo? R: Hugo, Hurricane Hugo. P: That was bad. R: Eighty-nine, yes. P: U(F) Where were you in those hurricanes? R: U(L) I was in my home P: U(L). R: I couldn(t come out. P: G(A). And you were safe, G(Q)? R: Well, so far, nothing really happen so you was safe. P: G(A). R: But it fell a piece of roof, galvanized blowing up and down. P: Yeah. R: And some people house [NB] go to pieces and nothing. P: Yeah. Those were horrible storms. Both of those. R: Those two. P: Georges R: And they had one called Lenny, bad, but not bad as U(I). P: Lenny was just last year, wasn(t it? R: Yeah. P: Year before last. R: Year before last. P: Yeah. Lenny came up on the wrong, on the other side. END SIDE A R: Try this one then [calling off porch to a friend]. OK. P: That(s a New Year(s Greeting G(Q)? Bright and prosperous New Year. That(s wonderful. What I(d like for you to do now is, this is the last thing, just for pronunciation, see how you pronounce these words. I(d like you to count from one to fourteen, loud enough so I hear it.. R: One to fourteen? P: Yeah. R: My spelling them? P: No, just say them. R: One, two, three. four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. P: Good, now the number after nineteen? R: Twenty. P: The number after sixty-nine. R: Seventy. P: The number after ninety-nine. R: One hundred. P: And the number after nine hundred and ninety nine? R: Two thousand. P: OK, Now there(s another way of counting U(H) instead of saying one, two, three, you say first, second, third. R: Yes. P: Would you do that for me up to ten? First, R: First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth. P: Great. Now the days of the week. R: Monday, well. P: Either way. R: Many people Sunday begin the week. P: OK. R: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. P: OK. Great. Now the months of the year. R: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. P: That(s it and we(re done. And that(s just great. 1