18. 1/08/03 Lodge Village. George XXX. M. 75 POB: L. Ed. 8th grade. Occ. cane labor/tractor driver. YA: 0/two trips to Nevis. Ancestry: L. Spouse: L Interview: 8 January, 2003 Initial Transcript: 11 August, 2003 Ottley(s Village, St. Kitts Lee Pederson: (P: prompter) George XXX (R: primary respondent) G(A): Grunt, affirmation G(N): Grunt, negation G(Q): Grunt, question, (Is that right?(; (You don(t say( G(V) Grunt, seeking verification. (Say what?( U(C): Utterance, cough U(F): Utterance, false start U(H): Utterance, hesitation U(I): Utterance, interruption U(L): Utterance, laughter U(M) Utterance muffled, inaudible. U(S) Utterance of surprise ( ) Deleted phoneme, word, or phrase P: Name. R: name is George, George XXX. P: George XXX. OK, how old are you? R: Sixty-five P: All right. And you were born where? R: Lodge Village. P: Where? Will you talk a little louder. R: Lodge Village. P: OK. And that(s your birthplace? Right. And what was your occupation? R: Used to drive tractor. P: G(A). When did you stop? R: Let(s see. Year before last. P: Year before last. Can you tell me about that? Where you did that. What kind of work it was. R: You mean before that? P: Well, tell me about the tractor. Where you drove the tractor. R: The cane. P: G(A). Well, tell me what that involved. R: We go up there. P: Yeah. R: Come down here. P: G(A). R: I go up there to the siding. P: G(A). R: Yeah. P: You took the cane from the field to the siding, G(Q)?. R G(A). P: To the train, right? Put them on the train. About school. Where did you go to school? R: Cayon. P: G(A). And how long did you go to school? How many years about? R: Well, fifteen. P: So you were about eighteen to twenty years old when you stopped going to school. Did you go to just one school in Cayon or a couple. R: Couple. P: G(A). Where was your mother born?. R: Mother? P: Your mother. R: She born here. P: And what was her occupation? R: She used to work at Lodge. P: G(A) What did she do?. R: Worked in a gang, dropped the [inaud] everything. P: Right in the fields, G(Q)? R: Yeah. P: G(A). All right. And how about your father? R: Father from Nevis. P: Your father(s from Nevis. OK. And do you have any children? R: Four. P: OK, Tell me about them. R: G(Q)? P: You said you had four children? R: Four. P: Who? Your father or you: me have three. P: You have three, tell me about them. R: [inaud] P: Where are they now? R: Well, I wouldn(t tell you about that. P: You wouldn(t tell me? R: No. Don(t know about them. P: Oh, you don(t know where they are? I see. Lost touch with them, G(Q)? OK. Are you married? R: Yeah. P: Tell me about your wife. R: She up there, doing her business up there. P: OK. Is she from Lodge also? R: [Nods]. P: Did she go to school with you? Did you know here U(I). R: No, no, no, no, no. P: How old is she. R: I can(t tell you about the age. P: About your age? R: Older than she. P: You(re older than she is. OK. You don(t know how much older? R: No, no, no. P: OK. All right. That(s interesting. You told me the only place you have been on off the island is Nevis. How many times have you been to Nevis? Twice. Well, tell me about it. U(L). You got to talk to me, man. That(s what we(re trying to do here is talk. R: I been Nevis twice. P: G(A). Tell me about those. When did you do that? R: Wen I went to there? P: G(A). R: I can(t tell you [a]bout that really but I went to town up here. P: OK. You went there twice, but y you don(t remember just when it was? That(s the thing. G(Q)? U(F). Did you like going to Nevis? Did you enjoy it? R: Yes. P: Why? R: Enjoy. P: What did you like about it? R: See sport and thing at Christmas. P: Oh, the sports. Tell me about the games you played when you were a child. R: I played cricket. P: G(A). What kind of cricket? R: Bat and ball. P: Bat and ball cricket or did you play windball cricket or regular cricket? Or both. R: Windball. P: Windball cricket. So. Any other games? R: Used to play draft. You know draft?. P: Tell me about that. R: Well, just a board, two fellows, one will [inaud].. P: G(A). R: If you get my man on this one, G(Q)? P: You jump? Like checkers? Like checkers, same thing. R: You got to draft him. P: How does drafts differ from checkers? R: Well, drafts is you just U(I). P: Do what? R: Take your man across; checkers you just jump one to the other. That(s all. P: They(re really two different games, G(Q(? R: Yeah, yeah. P: Any other games? R: No, no. P: Do you remember any games your children played when they were growing u. R: They play ball. P: OK. Anything else?. R: No to my mind [?] P: Well, tell me what you do during the day. Now. R: Now? P: Yeah. R:I don(t do nothing. P: G(A). R: I(s off. NB P: You(re off, G(Q)? When did you retire? R: That(s year before last. P: Year before last, G(Q)? But you were driving a tractor up until then, G(Q)? R: G(A). P: G(A). So now you(re U(I). [distracted by two men talking in background]. Any of your friends around here retire about the same time you did? R: No. P: No. OK. Tell me about working in the cane, will you. R: In the cane. P: See, you can(t just say yes and no. I(ll give you twenty dollars and we(ll forget about it. What you(ve got to do is talk to me. If you don(t want to talk. R: No, I talking. P: U(L). No, you(re not. R: A guy pick up the cane and put in cart. P: OK. R; Then to siding. P: OK. R: Yeah. And crane take them out. P: OK. Were you always a tractor driver? What were you before you were a tractor driver? R: Used to work by the day, day work. P: OK, and what kind of work, what did that involve. R: Oh, any kind of work, the grass, yeah. P: Picking the grass. Did you do that? Weeding? R: G(A). P: What kind of weeds were they? Do you remember. R: Grass, grass, and weeds.. P: Do you know what they(re called? Do you know what the names of the weeds are? R: Tom pegger [?], call them Tom pegger [?] P: G(A). R: So is nut grass. P: G(A). I see. And those really get into the cane when you(re plating it. OK. Do you remember when you were a child, talk about jumbies? R: I used to see jumbies. P: Did you ever see jumbies? R: Yeah. P: Tell me about them. R: Well, along here, used to see along here. P: Is that right? Used to see the jumbies along this road here? R: G(A). P: What did they look like? R: Well, you see them, G(Q) P: G(A). R: You run see them to your mother. P: G(A). What did they look like? R: Like people. P: G(A). Are they illuminated? Are there lights around them or what? R: Look like people when you see them sometime, you can(t see them again. P: Do you always see them at night. R: Sure, at night see them. P: Do you ever see them in daytime? You seen jumbies in the daytime? R: No, no, no, no, no. P: G(A). Do the jumbies look like people you know? R: Yeah, yeah. P: Tell me about them, tell me who they look like, the ones you saw. R: Well, I don(t know who they look like, but they look like people.. P: But they(re not people you knew. R: Yeah. P: They weren(t people you knew. R: No. P: You couldn(t identify them. I see. U)F). Did you run away from them or just stand there. Did they disappear or did you run away? Tell me about that. R: Did appear, they disappear. P: Disappeared.. G(A)? How about jack-o-lanterns? R: At time. P: Did you ever see them? S: See them up. P: G(A). What are they like? R: Well, they light you can see. P: What? R: You see the light. P: You see just the light and they move. R: G(A). P: G(A). You(re not supposed to follow them, is that right? R: No, no. P: Well, tell me about some of the things you used to do when you were young. R: I U(I). P: Talk to me about it. R: I used to play ball, up and down. P: G(A). R: Windball and everything. P: G(A). R: And everything, ride bicycle. P: G(A). OK. U(F). When you were in school, what kind of things did you do in school? What was school like? R: About school? P: Yeah, what was school like? R: Well, we had games in school. P: G(A). R: The ball and thing. P: G(A). Played ball in school. R: Yes, yes. P: G(A). And you went to school until you were about eighteen or so? R: Yes. P: And then you went right to work in the fields? R: [nods]. P: And what were you doing when you started working in the fields? R: Why, pick grass by cane and everything. P: Tell me about it. R: Yeah, yeah. P: Tell about what a day(s work was like when you U(I). R: A day(s work is just two dollars [inuad] P: G(A). R: Two dollars. P: Two dollars, you made two dollars a day? R: [nods] P: OK, you made two dollars a day, what kind of work did you do for those two dollars? R: Do all sort of work. P: G(A). Did they assign you to certain fields, to certain rows in the fields. R: Yes. P: Or did you just go around and look for things to do? R: No, they send you with a gang. P: G(A). Gang. R: Guys work. P: OK. How many men for in a gang usually? R: U(F). Ten. P: OK. And they put you into one field, and you(d go through and weed. And what else did you do besides weed? R: IF cane be too heavy, we help the cane. P: G(A). And did you ever U(H), how about cutting the cane? Did you do that? R: They cut them special. P: You never did that? R: No, no. P: Did you pick it up? R: Yeah, yeah. P: Handle it. Before they had the, what do you call those thing that grasp? R: Yeah. P: What is that called a grab? R: A grabber. P: A grabber. Before they had a grabber, did you do that work yourself? R: Yes, yes. P: Pick up the cane after it had been cut and put it up n the U(I). R: Cart.. P: The cart, yeah. All right. And you did that all day long. R [nods] P: OK So that(s another task you did. Was that the hardest work you did in the field? Picking it up and putting it on. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. P: Well, what else did you do? R: Well, after I start to drive. P: G(A). R: Start to drive. P: How old were you when you started to drive. R: Well, I wouldn(t know. P: Pardon. R: I wouldn(t know that. P: You wouldn(t know how old you were when you started to drive. R: No. P: U(L) Were you a young man when you started to drive. R: Yeah, yeah. P: All right, were you thirty years old, forty years old. R: About it. P: About what? R: Thirty. P: About thirty years old. About thirty years old when you started to drive. How did you get selected to be able to drive as opposed to everybody else who was working in the gang. R: Well, depends on how the fellow want to be with him. P: G(A). R: Second will make you be a second. P: G(A). R: A guy would let you, time come to drive. P: G(A). R: Yeah. P: Did they call for drivers or did you just go up there and apply? R: They call for driver; they want a driver. P: G(A). I see. And where did you learn to drive? how did you learn to drive a tractor? R: I drive up and down in this field. P: G(A). Somebody help you? R: Men, then, men who driver. P: G(A). A regular driver would help you. I see, OK. So you(d say you did that for about thirty years, you were a driver? R: [nods]. P: And tell me about the work as a driver. All you did was take the carts to the siding and go back? That(s all you did? R: [nods]. P: Well, what about the rest of the year when they weren(t harvesting? R: Maybe do the work they doing. P: What kind of work. R: The grass, do road and everything. P: Tell me about that. R: We had this road to the bay. We go throw on the road. P: Tell me about this now. R: We had this one from the bay. P: G(A). R: Down to the road. Do it with salt. P: OK. You repaired. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, repaired. P: Repairing the roads, road repair. In the plantation or is that out someplace else. R: Just anywhere. P: G(A) R: We just fix it. P: G(A). I see, U*F). You(d do roadwork when you weren(t actually harvesting. Because that harvesting was only for a short part of the year, wasn(t it? R: Yeah, yeah. That(s all P: Just a couple of months, G(Q)? What month was that, can you tell me? R: They take up, start January. P: G(A). R: Of the year to July finish. P: G(A). And that usually took how many months? R: About five months. P: About five months of finish, but then you had about even month of the year. R: Yes. P: To do other things. R: Yes. P: Do road work and stuff like that. R: Yes. P: You never worked in a factory? R: No. P: No. Just out in the field, I see. U(F). You didn(t deal with the trash or, you know, the magasse. R: Well, yes, we used to deal with magasse. P: OK. What did you do with it? R: They(d bring them in a cart. P: They(d bring it back. R: To the Cayon side of island and dump them out [?] fence about the cane.. P: G(A). And that was, really, sent back from the factory. R: Yes. P: How about mud? R: Well, mud, they didn(t used to bring them. P: They brought the mud. R: They throw it, take it up. P: Did you ever do that, work with the mud? R: Yeah. P: Tell me about that. R: We take them up and carry them inside the truck to the cane field. P: G(A). R: And they got people about to throw them in the field. P: G(A). Spread it out, G(Q) R: Yeah, yeah. P: Spread the mud out. Do you remember when you were small that your mother used to make teas, different kinds of tea for you, when you were sick? R: G(A). P: Can you tell me about any of those? R: Different kinds. P: What kinds of stuff she used? R: Different kind of bush she used. P: Yeah. Can you think of the names of any of them? R: That bush got one. P: That bush over there?. R: Yeah. P: Which one? The one with the, what(s that called? R: We call them busy bell. And them upside. P: What(s that called? R: I forget them. They call them bush old man beard.. P: Old man(s beard. R: G(A) Pea ridge.. P: Pea ridge? R: Yeah. P: And all those are good for teas. R: Yeah. P: All of those for teas, I see. Do you remember when they used to have midwives? And they(d birth babies. Was there a midwife in the village? R: No. Not in here. P: Pardon. R: No, they ain(t got no midwife in the village. P: They never did have? R: No. P: Were your children born with a midwife? R: But the came. P: But they came from someplace else. R: Yes. P: Where did they come from? R: Molineux. P: Molineux, I see. OK. Tell me about that. Tell me about the process. Did you take your wife to the midwife or did the midwife come, know when to come. How did that work. R: Now, put them in he hospital. P: Now they go in the hospital. Yeah, I understand that, but before when they had midwives, how did they do it. R: You go and call a midwife. P: OK. You call the midwife. R: G(A). P: And you don(t call the midwife until the child is going to be born, is that the idea? R: Yeah. P: Now, do you remember the sports in December when you were small? R: Yeah. P: Tell me about them. R: They have Goliath go by and Indian masquerade. P: G(A). R: Went past. P: G(A). R: Mummies, Red Cross, all kind of sport. P: Mokojumbies. R: Yes. P: What was Mokojumbies like? R: They got stick high up in the air there. P: G(A). And what do they do? R: They dance according to the music. P: OK. What about some of the things you wee mentioning, like Red Cross, what would that be? R: You don(t see that [inaud]. P: Red Cross these people dress up. Dress up like what? R: Just dress up for sports. P: What kind of dress? R: Different parts. P: For instance? Give me an example. R: Different parts that they want. P: Why is it called Red Cross? R: Why they call them Red Cross?. P: Why? R: I don(t know why they call them, but that(s the name. P: It(s called Red Cross and they dress up but they don(t have any special kind of dress. R: No, no, no, no. P: OK. Could you tell me he kind of birds there are on St. Kitts. R: They got different kind. P: I know that. That(s why I asked you. R: They got dove, they got pigeon and geese, white bird. [inaud] All kinds of bird. P: Do you know what they call the white birds? R: Yeah, them up on place here. P: Do you know the name of the white bird? R: No, no, no, no. P: No. OK. How about the different kinds of fish? Do you ever fish? R: Different kind of fish. P: Yeah, OK. Can you tell me some different kinds of fish. What are they? R: They down here. Got different kind: old wife, welshman, some fish, shark [inaud]. P: OK. How about the kinds of animals. R: Animals? P: Yeah. R: Well, you got cattle, donkey. P: Yes. R: Ass, mule. P: Yeah. R: Cattle, have a sheep, goat. P: Did you ever have any trouble with any of those animals? R: No, no, no. P: How about the monkeys? Do the monkeys come around here? R: Oh, them here one year. Them near by. P: G(A). You see them around here? R: Yesterday they went to [inaud]. P: Are they a pest or they don(t bother you. R: Yeah, they are pest. P: Are they troublesome? R: G(Q)? P: Are they troublesome? R: Yeah. P: They cause you trouble. R: You plant something, the going and pull it up. P: I see. They really get into the crops in your garden and so forth. R: [nods]. P: Did you ever have a garden? R: No. P: If you had a garden, what might you plant in it? What are some of the kinds of vegetables you plant in a garden? R: Potato and onion. P: G(A). R: Different thing. P: Like what? R: They plant different things. P: OK. You named two. Nothing else? R: Anything what you plant it be. P: Like what? R: Like cabbage, herbs, and tomato, different thing. P: G(A). OK. How about the hurricanes. When is hurricane season? R: Well, I don(t know, so. June, You got to look for hurricane. P: OK. How long does it last. When is it over? R: Last about two to three years. P: How many months? What time of the year you don(t have to worry about them any more? R: Well, November or December. October, November, P: OK. What was the worst hurricane that you witnessed? R: It was one? P: Yeah. R: Well, then, Hugo, Hugo, I think. P: Hugo, tell me about it. Tell what happened. R: He do a damage to some people, some thing. P: OK, where were you? R: Just one place, cooling out, man. P: G(Q)? R: Cooling out. P: Where were you? Crawling out? R: I sat cool so long, I watch pieces, wind blow, stay far from the wind. P: G(A). R: Otherwise, it take you up. P: Did you stay in your house. R: Yeah. Yeah. P: OK. And what time of day did that start? Do you remember? D you remember when Hugo hit? R: Sometime in the night. P: G(A). In the middle of the night. R: G(A). P: But you knew it was coming; you had a radio warning about it. R: G(A). P: I see. Were any people hurt or killed on St. Kitts? R: No, no, no, no. P: How about Georges? R: Georges. P: Remember that one? R: Did a lot of damage too. P: G(A). That was more recent, G(Q)? R: G(A). P: U(F). Do you remember your parents much at all? When you were small, what were your parents like? Just tell me about your parents? R: They black. P: Oh, I know that, but U(I). R: Low height. P: Kind of short? R: Yeah. P: Yeah. Did they do things with you? Do you have any memories of doing things with your mother or your father? R: No, no, no, no, no. P: How about your brothers and sisters? R: Well. P: Did you play with your brothers and your sisters, R: Yeah, yeah, yeah.. P: Tell me about that. What kind of games did you play? R: Outside a game. P: G(A). Just outside games. G(Q)? Do you remember that time before you went to school and you played with your brothers and sisters? Were all four of them younger than you. R: The son. P: And how many? Did you have three or four? R: Five. P: You had five brothers and sisters. How many boys and how many girls. R: Had three boys. P: G(A). R: That(s six of them. P: So you had three brothers and three sisters. What happened to them? What did they do in their lives? R: They work some as usual. P: G(A). R: G(A). P: How many of them worked in the cane? R: All them work in the cane. P: They all did. All six of them. OK. Are they all still alive now. R: One. One die. P: One died, but are the rest of them all retired too. R: They working. P: They(re working. Do you have to retire younger when you(re a tractor driver than other jibs? R: No, no, no. When young it done. P: G(Q)? R: When you reach retirement. P: Yes. The time is when you are sixty-five? RL G(A). P: When you(re sixty-five you have to retire from any job there or just the tractor job? R: No, no. P: Because your other brothers and sisters aren(t sixty-five yet so they can still work. I understand. OK. Can you think of any thing else interesting about Lodge Vllage? What(s it like? R: Oh, the village here. Several religion. P: So what goes on here. R: Things in front. P: Do most of the people in Lodge Village work someplace else. R: Yeah. P: U(F) Have you always lived in the same part of Lodge or have you moved around? R: Never. P: Your house has always been in the same place? What part of Lodge is that? R: Down here. P: Yeah, but what do you call that? R: Lodge Village. P: Is it any special part of Lodge Village or just U(I). R: No, no, no, no, no. P: You call it all Lodge Village, as opposed to Lodge Project, which is. R: Lodge Village. P: Yeah. Lodge Project is back and that(s the newer section, isn(t that right? R: G(A). P: Well, I think that(s about it. Did anybody ever make any kind of alcoholic beverages, you know, like home brew? Like make any kind of rum for themselves, like with their own.. R: They have. P: What do you call that stuff. R: They call it Hammond. P: Hammond. And that(s homemade rum, is that what that is? R: That(s a local thing that they made it here. P: Oh. I see. R:When they catch you, they run you down. P: Yeah, OK, but is it rum? R: Yeah. P: It(s a homemade rum called Hammond? R: G(A). P: Do you know how to spell that? R: Yeah, man, it smell good. P: U(L). Sells good, I know, rum does, but how do you spell it? H-AM-M R: Yeah. P: H-A-M-M- what then? R: Just Hammond as one. P: Just MH-A-M-M-O-N? R: Me no how to spell it. P: You don(t know how to spell it? R: No. P: OK. OK. But people did make it. R: Yes. P: And they did get it trouble if they catch you. R: Yeah, oh, yeah. P: So when people make that stuff, do people sell it? R: Sell it, man, sell it. P: G(A). Did you ever buy any? R: Oh, yeah, man. P: You can buy it all the time , G(Q)? R: G(A). P: Is it made with cane? R: Yeah, no, thing come from a factory. P: Oh. R: You get that molasses and buy it. P: Oh, I see. You make your U(I), R: Get it. P: Kind of get fixings for it. R: Yeah. P: And if you are going to get fixings for it and make the stuff. Can you tell me about people who make that? Have you ever seen it made? R: Yeah, sure. P: Well, tell me about the process. R: Well, people make it on their, on a kind of thing, a drum or barrel. P: G(A). R: Put it on there P: Then they have a snake or a copper tubing. R: G(A). P: Is it more like moonshine whisky or U(I). R: No, man, not in a class like whisky. P: Moonshine whisky, homemade white lightning. R: Yeah. P: Is it white when it(s finished., is it white rum. R: White, white. P: Is it white rum or is it white whisky? R: White rum. P: White rum, OK. I see, and U(F) they(ve always done that, but the main ingredient in that is molasses, you say. R: Yeah. P: OK. Now I want to do one last thing with you: I want you to count for from one to fourteen. To get your pronunciation. Just start out one, two, three. R: All right, all right. OK. OK. P: OK. Just start counting. R: One. P: Loud enough so I can hear you. R: One. P: Louder R: One, two three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. P: OK.. And the number after nineteen. R: Twenty. P: The number after thirty nine. R: Forty. P: The number after sixty-nine. R: Seventy. P: The number after ninety-nine. R: One hundred. P: The number after nine hundred and ninety nine. R: A thousand. P: OK. There(s another way of counting, like first, second, third, you know what I mean? Can you do that up to ten? . R: One. P: First, second, third. R: First second, third, fourth fifth, [skips sixth] seventh, eighth ninth, tenth. P: OK. How about in between fourth and then fifth R: Yeah. P: Will you say that fifth? The number after fourth. R: Fifth. P: And then P: Sixth, seventh. P: Right, OK. Now, name the days of the week. R: Seven days. P: Yeah. What are they? R: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.. P: OK. And the months of the year. R: Well, you got twelve months through the year. P Yeah, What are they, Go ahead; name them; wait until the truck goes by. OK R: .January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. P: OK. Thank you. That(s it. Thank you very much. : . 1