19. 1/09/03 Tabernacle (aka Stone Crossing/Wallen). Thomas XXX. M. 39. POB: L. Ed 10th grade Occ: baker/mason/fisherman/cane laborer, cutter YA: 3 years (back and forth) Antigua, as landscaper. Ancestry: P: Nevis/ M: L. Unmarried. Interview: 9 January, 2003 Initial Transcript: 13 August, 2003 Tabernacle, St. Kitts Lee XXX: (P: prompter) Thomas XXX (R: primary respondent) Interview conducted outside, no possibility of cover from the wind that frequently interferes with reception. G(A): Grunt, affirmation G(N): Grunt, negation G(Q): Grunt, question, (Is that right?(; (You don’t say( G(V) Grunt, seeking verification. (Say what?( U(C): Utterance, cough U(F): Utterance, false start U(H): Utterance, hesitation U(I): Utterance, interruption U(L): Utterance, laughter U(M) Utterance muffled, inaudible. U(S) Utterance of surprise ( ) Deleted phoneme, word, or phrase P: I will have to write things down. Tell me your name first. R: My name is Thomas XXX. P: How do you spell that? R: That’s Thomas T-H. U(I). P: Oh, Thomas , I know. Last name. R: T-H-O-M-A-S X-X-X. P: OK. And how old are you? R: Thirty-nine years. P: All right. R: Be making forty, this year. P: OK. And what’s this neighborhood called? R: This neighborhood? P: Yeah. R: It’s called Stone Crossing. P: And this is a part of U(I). R: This a part of Tabernacle. P: Right. R: But we now call it, that’s a local name, Wallen. P G(A). Wallen? R: Wallen. P: G(A). How do you spell that? R: Wallen. P: W-A- U(I) R: W-A-L-L-E-N. Wallen. P: Is that somebody’s name? R: No. P: What does that come from? R: That’s come from the like tradition, going up from myth in the older people then. P: G(A). R: Call it Wallen. P: G(A). R: With it, I don’t know who really give it the name Wallen. P: I see. I see. R: But the right name is Stone Crossing, which part of Tabernacle. P: I see. R: But people living in the area. P: What’s your occupation? R: My occupation. Well, my occupation, I have several field I work. P: Tell me about them. R: Well, I do, I’m a baker. P: A baker, right. R: I reach in the construction field where I’m a mason. P: G(A). R: And I go around different with fishing and U(I). P: U(L). You do fishing too? R: Yeah. P: That’s terrific. Where do you do your baking? Do you work for a bakery or U(I). R: Well, I used to be with, one named Mr. Salters. P: G(A). R: I start a little shop with a merchant we had over here by the name Dugan Mack. P: G(A). R: I start out with him from a little kid up. P: G(A). R: That’s where I get in the baking, but next time working with Mr. Salters. P: I see. R: I go through with them, watch them. P: I see. What kind of baking do you do, mainly bread?. R: Mainly bread. P: G(A). R: Mainly bread, when I used to be with Salters, then we do a little pastry. P: G(A). R: Which is the bun and the tart and the UI).. P: I got you, sure. R: Yeah. P: How about your masonry work. What did that involve? R: Well, the masonry, it comes when we running blocks. P: G(A). R: Plastering the blocks there. P: G(A). Like doing some of these block places like that? R: Yeah. Right. P: G(A). R: And after that the finishing part. P: G(A). R: Before you paint it. P: G(A). R: Right. P: That’s what you worked on mainly? R: Yeah. P: OK. What do you call that stage. R: Call that stage of the work? P: Yeah. R: Well, you call the stage the finishing part. P: G(A). R: But the first stage. P: Yeah. R: Is block laying. P: Yeah. R: So when you are ready to put up the block now. P: G(A). R: Then you know one cover it with the mortar. P: I see. R: You call it plastering. P: OK. R: And then you start putting in your windows and everything. P: Do you lay those, those blocks. R: Yes. P: The same way you do bricks? R: Yes. P: The same way. R: Yes, yes. P: You just mortar them the same way you do bricks. R: Yes, yes. P: OK. I understand. That’s interesting. Now tell me about your fishing, your career as a fisherman. R: Well, I’m fishing now. P: U(L). R: Started fishing on the sun. P: G(A). R: Like going on the sun and throwing the line. P: Yeah. R: And go out and fish. P: G(A). R: Sometimes you catch a big one. P: Right, right. R: Now I start going out on the sea. P: Oh. R: On a boat with other partners. P: G(A). R: So there’s where I got more experience in the deep. P: Are you still doing that? R: Yeah. P: Do you, I was talking to Carlton, you know, the driver, yesterday, and he was telling me about how different sections of the sea have different kinds of fish in them. R: Yes. P: Can you tell me about that? R: Now, you see, now you see Dieppe Bay there. P: Yeah. R: Dieppe Bay there, you have different quality of fish. P: G(A). R: Like you catch the snappers. P: G(A). R: You’ll catch all the groupers. P: G(A). R: And the big trouts and the U(I) Good morning [to passerby]. And like you go across the area you call, up here, call Tabernacle region. P: G(A). R: Cross up here, you catch what they call a butterfish there. P: G(A). R: Plenty of them and the old wife. P: What’s a butterfish?. R: The butterfish a fish that, then, they’re kind of reddish. P: G(A). R: Kind of reddish and they salty. P: G(A). R: So they like when you eat them, taste like butter. P: Oh, I see butter. R: Yeah. P: But they’re small fish then, a few inches long? R: Fried. Yes. P: They’re about the same size as old wives? R: All of them, the same size. P: Old wife is U(I). R: Some of them about the size of old wife. 076 P: G(A). OK. Don’t you have to go way out for some of those? R: Well, it’s a good distance. P: Yeah. R: Couple furlongs away. Yeah. P: But you don’t have to out for more than a few furlongs out in the water. Like you don’t go miles out. R: Well, you don’t have to go. Well, you have to take miles to get to Dieppe Bay. P: Oh, I see. You take them to Dieppe Bay, right? But not twelve miles out into the ocean. R: No, no, no. P: That would be really dangerous U(L). R: No, no, that’s not miles out. P: Yeah. OK. But can get all those good fish like snapper U(I). R: All, right. P: And grouper. R: Yes. P: All of those are available near Dieppe Bay? R: Yes, yes. P: Dieppe Bay. R: Yes. P: That’s interesting. Tell me a little bit about your schooling. R: My schooling. I went to school right here in Tabernacle. P: Yeah. R: Finished school in Tabernacle All-age school. P: G(A). R And that is where you pass Billadonga [place name?] P: Yeah, where came up the road. R: Right. Right now it come into what we call a preschool. P: G(A) R: Started school and volunteered twelve and they go on to Cayon. When I were going to school, it was all age. P: I see. R: So you go through school until sixteen. P: Yeah. R: I end up reach ten grade. P: G(A). R: Had to finish my school and leave everything. P: G(A). Did you go to school for your masonry or did you just work as an apprentice? R: Well, masonry is what then. P: G(A). R: I pick up through them, leave the bakery. P: I see. R: And go in the construction. P: I see. R: So I was working as a trademan. P: I see. R: I was his helper. P: Good morning [to another passerby]. You really learned by U(I). R: By working. P: Did hey have a regular system as they do in the United States, an apprentice system? We have to serve as an apprentice and then become a journeyman. R: Yes, yes. We have that as well. P: But they don’t have a union? R: They don’t have a union. P: No. How long do you have to serve as an apprentice? R: Well, it depend on the bossman. P: U(L). I see. R: And how the bossman do it in favor of you. P: And maybe how good you are. R: Well, it’s how good you are as well. P: Sure. R: Because it matter how fast you catch up. P: I see. R: And with your learning. P: I see. R: I serve apprentice. You call it apprentice, or laborer, I don’t care, it’s the same way. P: Yeah. R: For maybe about three years also, and then maybe I get in the field. You’re working with another mason then. P: G(A). R: With more experience than me. P: G(A). You never worked in the cane, though? R: Yes, I did. P: Tell me about that. R: Well, I did that this year. P: G(A). R: I went in the cane and took up some sugar. P: G(A). R: First time, I had my experience. P: Is that right. R: Yeah. P: What did you do? Were you cutting or U(I). R: Cutting, cutting the cane, P: G(A). R: You know the cane something like that. You wanna pick up… Some people carry two of them. P: G(A). R: Some carry three. I start out first this year; I started with three. P: G(A). R: Carry three; you come back with another three. P: G(A). R: You cut three first from the cane row.. P: Right. R: You carry them. P: G(A). R: And the them other three. 133 P: G(A). R: Is to put you over. P: I see. R: So when you chop down the cane, the grabber take them. They have to take from the ground.. P: The grabber now is done with a machine. R: A machine, it take the cane and U(I). P: That used to be a terrible job, didn’t it? Before, The grabber, R: The grabber had to do the job. P: Yeah. R: But it different now. P: G(A). R: That is a loader. P: G(A). R: That loading it. P: Right. R: Take the crop and chop it and take it to the side. P: Did you work through the entire crop? R: The entire crop, yes. 142 P: How many months was that? R; Well, that was, you started in February and think it went for about three months, February. Let’s see. February, April, May, June, P: Yeah. R: Finish in July. P: Yeah, right. R: Well. P: They were just finishing when I came in July. R: Yeah, finish in July. P: And how many days a week did you work? R: Well, sometime I work seven days a week. P: Is that right, really U(I). R: See, when you working in the field, you working for yourself. P: Yeah. R: If you working another partner. P: Yeah. R: You working for on him. P: How did they pay you? R: By the ton. P: By the ton? R: Yeah. P: I see. R: So you find if you cut U(F) cane from here to that post,. P: G(A). R: And come and you chop it, a good ship of cane. P: G(A). R: Well, that is said to cut the cost, right? P: G(A). R: Well, when they go down and read you, come to the sliding. P: Yeah. R: When they take it from the sliding. P: Yeah. R: To the factory. P: Yeah. R: Then they weigh it. P: G(A). R: They settle the tonnage, P: The tonnage is based on before they take the trash off? R: Well, they taking the trash off in the factory. P: G(A). R: But usually cut off in the field. P: G(A). R Supposed to be cleaned of trash, so there be less trash to the factory P: I see. R: So when they weigh it up there now. It come out sometime, you end up getting two ton and a half. Sometime you end up getting two tons; sometime you reach four ton. P: I see. How much do you get paid for a ton? R: Well, the last I think, was thirteen fifty. P: Thirteen fifty a ton. R: A ton P: And how long would that take you to do? R: How long would it take to make a ton. P: Yeah. R: You can make a ton of cane in two hours, P: G(A). R: Two hours. P: That’s pretty hard though, isn’t it? R: Yes. P: Yeah. R: Yeah it’s pretty hard. P: I’ll bet it’s hard work. R: You have to become native P: I see. The trash, the stuff you’re stripping off is. R: G(A). P: Do you call it magasse or bagasse? R: Well, they call it magasse. P: Magasse. And what is that? R: That is something when comes from the sugar factory. P: Yeah. R: From grinding up the cane. P: Yeah. R: That is the husks that come back. P: OK. R: From the cane. P: U(F). Did you ever work with that? When they bring that in the fields for fertilizer. R: Well, never work with that, but I see how it work. They bring it back in the field and spread it. P: Yeah. How about the mud? R: The mud. P: Yeah. R: Well, the mud bought now. That is like, when the rain fall. P: Yeah. R: And the place, you see how it be? P: Yeah. R: The swamp and it’s chucked down and it called muddy. P: How about the mud, when they’re boiling the cane, the sugar, they get that skim, that stuff that skim off the top. Don’t they call that mud? R: That’s molasses. P: But the stuff they skim of the top of it. R: Yes. P: That’s molasses? R: That’s molasses P: OK. But is that cutting a pretty skilled work, I mean. R: Yeah, yeah. Cutting is a very skillful work. P: G(A). But you went right in to doing it the first time, G(Q)? R: Yeah. P: How did you learn it? R: Well, I learn it by, my grandfather. P: OK. Yeah. R: He taught me those thing, also my dad. P: G(A). Is that right. R: I go out and U(F). We used to go in the field. R: G(A). R: To carry lunch for my dad. P: And were they both from Tabernacle? R: Yeah. P: Both your grandparents. R: My grandfather, he came from Nevis. P: G(A). R: But living here for partially half, three-quarters his life. R: OK. R: But my dad from here. P: OK. R: Because he born here. P: How about you mother? R: My mother, she born in Mansion. St. Kitts. P: Yeah, I know where Mansion is. R: But living right here. P: Yeah. G(A). R: Right here, near where I’m living in the yard. P: That house there? R: Right. P: That’s your mother’s house? R: That’s my grandparents’ house. P: Your grandparents, is that right? R: Yeah. P: Yes? R: Well, my mother now, she in St. Thomas. P: Oh, is that right? R: Yeah. P: Your mother lives in St. Thomas. R: Yeah. P: How about, do you have any brothers and sisters? R: Yeah. I have one of them living here. P: G(A). R: There’s one that’s living in St.. Kitts, living at Monkey Hill. P: G(A). R: And I have one in Tortola. P: G(A). R: Now one sister, she’s in America. P: G(A). R: That’s the only sister of my mother. P: G(A). OK. And how about, do you have any children? R: One. P: OK. R: One, a boy. P: A boy, OK, what does he do? R: Well, he in school. Just fifteen, trying to make sixteen. P: Where do the kids go to school, now from Tabernacle. R: Well, these kids in Tabernacle go to Tabernacle school down here. P: G(A). R: Which is Tabernacle Primary. P: G(A). R: And when they reach eleven-twelve years then they go on to Cayon. P: I see. Do they wear uniforms in Tabernacle? R: Yes, yes, yes. P: What color uniforms? R: The boys wear brown. P: Yeah, khaki.. R: Blue shirt. P: Blue shirt, OK. Yeah. R: The girls they wear blue shirt. P: G(A). R: With a striped, blue blouse. P: G(A). And a kind of khaki skirt? R: No. P: Blue skirt. R: A blue skirt. P: Blue skirt, OK. R: With a stripe in it. P: Those uniforms are interesting. R: Yes. P: I see them in the morning. When we drive. R: Yes, yes. P: See all those different U(I).. R: I guess when you’re coming up, you see kids on the road. P: Yeah, I see kids in orange U(I). R: Right, right. Different. P: And green. That’s very nice. R: Well, the one with the green is a little preschool. P: Oh. R: Yeah, that carry green. That’s for kids under the age of five. P: I see. Is that right. R: Yeah, yeah. P: That’s great. Are you married? R: No, I’m still single. P: Still single, OK. Now I want to ask you about, U(H). Everything I’m asking you here is really your reaction. R: Yes. P: There is no right answer or wrong answer. For instance, I want to ask you first about travel. Have you traveled much off the island? R: Yes. I travel several times. I travel from here Antigua, St. Martin’s. P: G(A). R: Well, I wouldn’t put in Nevis because Nevis is right here. P: G(A). Across the street, U(L). R: Yeah. P: Well, how long did you stay at St. Martin? R: Well, in St. Martin I spend a day. P: G(A). R: But in Antigua, I spent about, let’s say, about three years there, going and coming. P: G(A). What did you do over there? Did you work over there? R: Well, I work over there just with, what must call it, landscaping. P: I see. R: I work with farm also. P: How old were you when you did that? R: When I did that, I was the age of about thirty-one , thirty-two. P: G(A). R: Yeah. P: And you stayed for about three years? R: Yeah, yeah. P: In Antigua. R: Right. P: Did you enjoy it over there? R: Yes, yes, yes, because for the experience of being in another country. P: OK. Tell me about the experience. R: Well, to meet other people. P: G(A). R: And then see in the country. P: Yeah. R: Is not far different from mine. P: Yeah. R: Because it’s the same only that them different people. P: Right, right. R: You know? P: Yeah, yeah, that’s interesting.. R: Yes. P: You really see these people in the islands as doing the same things as here. R: Just so. Just so. P: G(A). R: Just a different nationality. P: Talk a little differently. The dialects, G(Q)? R: Yes, yes. P: Right. So are you planning any travels soon? R: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do visit back in Antigua again. P: G(A). R: In this, Tabernacle, we do not have a community festival. P: G(A). R: So every time I plan to go. P: G(A). R: That’s is when the festival time start. Because it start in August. P: Oh, I see. R: And August Monday. P: Yeah, I know. R: So that’s Antigua carnival, just finish. P: Don’t they have a pretty good carnival in Cayon? R: Yes, that is Green Valley. P: In June? R: Yes. P: Yeah. R: That’s Green Valley. P: Do you know Charlie XXX? R: Charlie XXX, yes. P: I saw him yesterday. R: Right. P: I talked to him last time I was here. R: OK. P: And he brought me a CD. Does he have a band or something? R: Yeah. P: He plays? R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he play music. P: But he brought me a CD yesterday because I talked to him last summer. R: Last summer. P: And he wanted some plans for solar power, solar energy. R: Oh, all right. P: Well, my son’s an architect in the States, so my son found me some books, I took them to him. And he was very grateful. We had a nice talk yesterday. R: Right. He call. You see, that would be essential for him too. P: Yeah. R: Because up in the GreenValley. P: Yeah. R: They do have a lot of shortage problem with energy and so. P: G(A). R: And the solar will be very U(I). P: How long does that festival, the Green Valley Festival, last? R: It last for a week. P: A week. R: Yeah. P: And it’s toward the end of June? Or different times. R: Begin, start I think in June around what time, what time? By the fifteenth of June or sometime. P: It’s not tied in with a holiday? R: No, no. 284 P: Who sponsors? Is it a group? R: Well, it’s sponsored by different people from Cayon area. P: I see. R: But people Cayon and Cayon people, like it their way. P: I see. R: So they all combine together and make it a community festival. P: Is it pretty good? R: Yeah. P: It’s good. R: It’ll be very interesting. P: I’m going to come again in June or July. Maybe, I’ll try to come at that time. R: If you reach at that time, you will see how good it is. P: I see. R: Just like national carnival. P: Great. Well, I also miss the national carnival because I’m home with Christmas, you know. R: This year was a great year. P: Well, I heard it was. R: Yeah, it was a good year. Plenty music. P: Yeah, I know, but the thing is, I stay at the Palms. R: Yeah. P: Well, I mean U(L), they’re out there jamming a four o’clock in the morning. R: All right. P: I wouldn’t get much sleep. I’d have to forget about work. R: U(L). P: OK. Now, could you tell me something about the games you played as a child? R: Well, from a kid. P: Yeah. R: We pitch marble. P: G(A). R: Growing up we play licks and span as well. P: What is that now? R: That is when you have a marble. P: G(A). R: You put yours out there from here. P: G(A). R: If I catch you. P: Try to hit. R: Try to hit. P: G(A). R: And if I ain’t hit you than I can span you. P: Oh, I see. R: Then I span. P: I see. R: Then I win you... P: Spanning then is from your fore finger to thumb? R: Yes. P: Spread out that. R: Spans, yes. P: If you’re that close, you still take it? R: Then the person take the play. P: I see, ok. R: Now, coming up again, playing cricket. P: G(A). R: Cricket was one of my favorites. P: OK. R: For age, cricket for the village, like Rural East. P: G(A). R: That is now Rural East, from Monkey Hill down to Newton Ground. P: G(A) R: And all the village then that plays cricket. P: I see. R: They going eventually pick out a team from that. P: It’s called the Rural East?. R: Rural East. P: Rural east or Rural League? R: Rural East This is the east.. P: OK. East side. R: So they call it Rural East. P: I see. OK. OK. R: So finally we pick a team from those team. P: G(A). R: It’s (e)leven players going to pick from boy’s team. P: G(A). R: Well. I being one that used to lay for the Rural East. P: Is that right. R: I used to represent Tabernacle. P: is that right. R: And that team. P: G(A). Who did you play then? R: Well, okay against St, Kitts National Team. P: G(A). R: Like train for the practice. P: Yeah. R: Other team. We played against the different force. P: Yeah. R: Several different. P: Did Basseterre have a team? R: Basseterre, yes, yes. P: G(A). R: We played against them. P: Now that’s regular cricket you’re talking about. R: Yes. P: Regular, regulation cricket. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. P: When you were younger did you play another kind of cricket. R: Well, when we were younger, we used to play what they call “Knock On Run Out” P: Well, tell me about that. R: We here. You would have the ball. P: Yeah. R: I’m the batsman. P: Yeah. R: You bowl the ball. P: Yeah R: Every ball I play. P: G(A). R: I have to run to where your ball is. P: G(A). R: And get back up there before. P:G(A). R: You knock this down. P: I see. R: If I get back up there. P: G(A). R: Then I out. P: You out, OK. R: You take the bat for somebody else. P: G(A). R: To bat the team, batsman. P: It’s more like baseball, G(Q)? R: Right. Yeah, it’s that type a thing. P: I see. R: Yeah. P: Did you ever play windball cricket? R: Yeah, that’s it. P: That’s it. R: Yeah. P: So you were using a lawn tennis ball.. R: Ball, yeah. P: Using a lawn tennis ball. R: Tennis ball, yes. It’s same game as Knock it. P: Any other games you can think of? R: Well, the basketball and so on, something that just come around. P: Yeah. R: Volleyball. P: Yeah. R: Hand tennis. P: Yes. R: The hand tennis. P: G(A). Don’t they play a kind of rougher variety of cricket in the Caribbean than they do in England? R: Well, you think so? That’s the rougher kind? P: Yeah. R: No. P: More physical. R: The physical part. P: That’s what I mean. R: Is just what they play in England. P: Is that right? R: Yeah? P: OK. The English complain about the people out here throwing the ball. R: Well. P: At them. R: What happen, what happen, you see, we down here. P: Yeah. R: We play cricket in the way that then, we must get the wicket. P: Yeah. R: And we like to bowl with the bowlers then. P: Yeah. R: Like to know they’re challenging them with the ball. P: Right. Yeah. R: So you’ll find the bumpers and such. P: Yeah. R: So that’s why you see more fellows from this side. P: I see. R: They always been producing fast bowlers. P: I see. R: They call it Hot Style. P: Hot Style. R: Right. P: That’s good. R: G(A). P: Well, I’ll tell you, I’ve sen cricket played in England, and it bores me to tears. R: Yeah. P: I’ve never seen it, I’ve seen several times on television,. I think one year I was here in April and there was tournament going on, a West Indian tournament. R: G(A). P: Man, that is great, R: Right. P: That is as good as basketball. R: Yeah, yeah. P: I mean those guy are good. R: Like ball. P: They’ve got style and really move, yeah. R: And you see how easy they take the ball and throw it. P: Yes, I saw that. There’s so much more finesse or style U(I).. R: OK. OK. P: In West Indian cricket. Are there any more games you can think of? R: Other games? P: Yeah. R: Well, draft. Do you know the game of draft? P: No. R: Well, the game of draft. P: Oh, drafts, yeah. R: OK. P: The drafts game is like checkers? R: Right, P: How does it differ from checkers? R: Well, in checkers, you jump over. P: G(A). R: But in draft, you eat; you take them off. P: You call that “eating” R: Yeah. P: You eat them up R: Yeah, eat them up, so time, you have to make a play just like checker. P: Yeah, yeah. R: You can crown in the jump. P: OK. R: You can crown them. P: OK. R: So when a man crown on you now. P: G(A). R: He have the opportunity P: G(A). R: That he can work that crown; a crown can work one way or other. P: Yeah. OK. R: Only unless, you can half it. P: OK. U(L). R: He supposed to eat. If he fail to eat, you can half the crown, otherwise the crown can clean up the whole board. P: OK. Half the crown? You split the crown? R: Yes, you pick up half of it. P: I want to go back to cricket or a minute. I wish you’d tell me. What position did you play? R: Well, I was play all around. P: G(A). R: First, I started out playing cricket as an offman. And through, then, trying and failing in that craft, I picked up the ball and started as a bowler. P: G(A). . R: Then I became fast medium. P: G(A). R: So you find from bowling, batting, and fielding. P: G(A). I see. R: Now and then I take the keeping gloves and do a little keeping. P: G(A). R: But my main thing now is batting and bowling. P: Is a keeper kind of like a catcher? R: Yes. P: Like a catcher in baseball. R: Yes. The keeper just like in baseball. P: Yeah. R: Catcher. P: Do you watch much American baseball. R: Yes, yes. P: Do you like it? R: Yeah, man. P: OK. R: Doing the confident stuff... P: G(A). R: I like to see that. P: You like baseball. That’s good. Tell me what a bowler does. R: A bowler. P: Besides, I know he bowls the ball. . R: A bowler now, he set his field. P: Yeah. R: Like everything has its captain. P: G(A). R: The captain will talk to the bowler. That he going to choose to throw the ball. P: Yeah. R: And tell him, well, what kind of fielder you need. P: G(A). R: Well, the bowler will say then, well, I want a man short play. P: G(A). R: I want a man in mid on, one longer than off. P: G(A). R: Give me a man a little short gulley. P: G(A). R: He set the field how he want. P: Right. R Then he now suppose to bowl to that field. To make the batsman play the ball. P: G(A). R: So the ball, he won’t be able to hit the boundary. P: G(A). R: Or hit out the field. P: G(A). R: He suppose to make the batsman hit the ball so you can field the ball and stop the run. P: Right. The bowler then positions the players. R: Right. P: Bowler positions, I see. R: He and the captain do the draw. P: I see. R: Yeah. P: So you do that before every batsman. R: Every batsman. P: G(A). R: Or the batsman is just out. P: G(A). R: Now you set the field as your batsman come in. P: Yeah. R: When you see how the batsman play. P: G(A). R: Then you set your field accordingly to match that batsman. P: I see. I see. So you have to know. U(F) What do you base that on? R: You basing now on the ability of the batsman. P: You know the batsman. . R: Yes, yes. P: You know what he can do. How often did you play? Like, during a season, you were playing cricket. R: Well, almost every weekend. P: G(A). R: Every weekend you have a match. P: And how long does a match take, usually. R: Well, a match take, we play for three days. P: G(A). R: Sometime we play a one-day match, just like in England. P: G(A). R: Yeah. P: If they played three days, that would be a three-day match. R: Right. P: Would that be one continuous scoring or would it be three different scorings? R: Well, one continuous scoring. P: G(A). R: Like the team be at bat for a day and a half. P: G(A). R: Other team – That team make about a hundred and fifty, two hundred on it P: OK. R: Then the next team go in. P: G(A). R: And they play to make the run. P: G(A). R: In a tie game, then the game will draw.. P: I see. R: But if the team and go under that first team run, then the other team have a chance to put them in and try [to] bowl them out. P: Right. If they draw, do they stop or do they keep playing? R: Well, now. P: Do they have overtime? R: Yes. They stop. No overtime. They have no overtime.. P: That’s sensible. That’s sensible. Yes. R: No overtime. P: That’s good. U(F) But if you’re playing a three-day match, how many hours of the day would you say? R: Well, they go from, they start about four o’clock, sometime ten o’clock then start. P: G(A). R: Done around half-past four, five. P: G(A). Until four or five. R: Yeah, that’s it. P: They stop, have breaks in between? Have time outs? R: Well, they have a little fifteen minutes water break and then go on. P: U(L). That’s good Where were the fields they played on? Were there fields around here in Tabernacle? R: One, they had one before you come school ground here. P: G(A). R: They had one before, where they have the basketball court now. P: Yeah. R: And then we play at Mansion’s. P: Yes. R: We play at Molineaux’s. All different yards. P: There’s one down there along the road. R: The main road. P: The main road. R: Yeah. P: It has a bunch of billboards. R: Yes. P: Advertisements. R: Yes. P: All around. Do you know what I mean? R: Yes. P: Isn’t that a cricket U(I). R: Not for cricket, that’s a football ground. P: Oh, for what? For the whole island or U(I).. R: That’s for the village, the village. P: G(A). For this village. R: Yes, I mean. P: I see. [“Morning,” to passerby] R: U(F) Mainly, the school ground. P: G(A). R: But it’s mainly community land. P: Yeah. U(F). Now I want to shift on you to something else. Do you remember when you were little, they’d talk about jumbies? R: Yeah, yeah. P: Your parents, tell me what you remember your parents and grandparents had to say about jumbies. R: Well, when I was a little boy, I hear people talking about jumbies. P: G(A). R: They say, well, nighttime, some look in the mountain. P: G(A). R: They see a light up there; they say that’s a jack-o-lantern. P: Yeah. R: And U(I). P: Now that different from a jumbie, isn’t it. R: That different. Those two thing. Well, they are jumbies too. P: G(A). R: But they dangerous part only. P: Dangerous. Did you ever see one?. R: Yes. I stop down here and watch the light. P: G(A). R: Way up. P: G(A). R: White long. P: G(A). R: Like you going down the beach, you know. P: G(A). R: Now jumbie sometime it had a big [big ears? rabbit?]. P: G(A). R: See that mean different thing. Sometimes you see one like a rabbit. P: Yeah. It takes the form of a rabbit, G(Q)? R: Form of a rabbit. P: G(A). R: Sometime you see one like somebody you know.. P: G(A), R: you know? P: G(A) Somebody who’s dead? R: That’s it. P: Yeah. R: That’s it. P: G(A). R: Like I could remember, first time I ever saw one, that was the night I was going (a)cross around the road. P: G(A). R: And I saw a lady in white. P: G(A). R: Look again see but I ain’t see nobody. P: G(A). R: Then when I tell old people. P: G(A). R: They say that’s a spirit. P: G(A). R: And I never remember seeing one again. P: U(F). Was it kind of illuminated around? Or just a white dress? R: What happen, you couldn’t see the body (it)self. P: G(A). R: And the white dress. P: G(A). R: But then, I look again and ain’t nowhere, disappear. P: G(A). R: Lady disappear. I hear people talk about them, say they see them different time in different places. P: G(A). R: Sometime somebody dead somebody say well, “I saw that person last night.” P: G(A). R: You know? P: Sure. How about a jumbie fire. R: Jumbie fire. P: Yeah, R: Well, I heard (a)bout them, but I never see that. P: G(A). R: I heard about jumbie fire. P: Yeah, R: I never see. P: G(A). R: One time when I was a little boy coming up to see my father, he was coming up there. P: G(A). R: Next thing I hear a shout. P: G(A). R: He come, then he say. P: G(A). R: There’s a white sheet rolling. P: G(A). R: Coming towards him. P: G(A). R: Well, he try to get all the sheet. P: Yeah. R: But the sheet’s still attacking him. P: G(A). R: So that is when he bawl about, but he ain’t see no sheet. P: G(A). U(L). That’s interesting. Did you ever hear of a jumbie crab? R: Well, I hear about them as well. P: What do you hear about them? R: U(L). They say (if) you catch a crab. P: Yeah. R: You peel them, them say jumbie crab. P: G(A). U(L). R: You know, but used to know the difference within them. P: G(A). R: (Be)cause sometime you got them in the pan, when you come out the pan and the crab in there. P: Yeah, right, right. That’s good. R: We used to go for crab on certain night. P: G(A). Now, did your mother used to make kinds of things with herbs and berries or bushes for colds? R: Well, my old lady. P: Grandmother. R: She used to use the bushes then what we call tablets. P: Who was that now? R: Old lady, she die(d) now. She name is Richards. P: Oh.. R: She used to use the different herb. P: Yeah. R: Bush and make tablets. P: G(A). R: Just like the lemon , you know. P: I see. R: But what happen, with my old man now. P: G(A). R: He look all several different kind of bush. P: G(A). R: And he boil the tea. P: G(A). R: You find different people in the village up to now to do. P: Yeah. R: And different people will come and get that. P: That was your father who did that? R: My uncle. P: Oh, your uncle, not your father. R: Not my father. That my father brother. P: Your father’s brother, OK. I got you. R: Yeah. P: And do you remember the kinds of bushes they sued? R: Well, for me, I wouldn’t know most of them. P: OK. R: Seen them, seem, I would not. P: Well, you have drug stores now, don’t you? R: yeah. P: Chemist? R: Yeah. P: OK. Now I’d like to ask you a little bit about, what holidays do they celebrate on St. Kitts? R: Celebrate Easter Monday. P: Yeah. R: Celebrate August Monday. P: G(A). R: They celebrate Labor Monday. P: G(A). When’s Labor Monday? R: It’s in May, I think it’s the second of May or something like that. P: OK. First Monday in May, OK. R: Yeah. And also then, they celebrate, the next holiday is Heroes Day. P: G(A). OK. What’s that? R: Heroes Day is the day that they turn over from August Monday what you Emancipation Day to Heroes Day. P: I see. So that’s from August Monday. R: Yeah. P: U(F) Are you too young to remember when they had the sports? R: They still have sports. P: They still have sports. Tell me about the sports when you were little R: When I was little, well, what sports I see when I were little, I don’t see now. They used ti have a sports we used to call Bad Cook [?], but the right name Father [?]. P: G(A). R: They used to have some old men. P: G(A). R: That used to play that sport. P: G(A). R: And they play the sport, but they used to have a cardboard. P: G(A). R: Find a certain thing within the sport. P: G(A). R: Put all the people back in the cardboard. P: Is that right? That’s good. R: Yeah. P: I was thinking of the sports that are kind of tied in with the carnival. R: Yes. P: Is that what you mean? R: Yes. P: Do you remember when they had David and Goliath? R: Yeah, David and Goliath still around. P: OK. And the macajumbies? R: Macajumbies still around. P: OK. What are they like? R: Well, some guys will get some stick; stick them about five to six feet long. P: Yeah. R: Nail on a piece of cloth on the pole. P: G(A). R: And dance and those things. P: Now that’s all down in Basseterre. R: Yes. P: U(F). They don’t do any of that kind of stuff up here? R: They don’t do it all like when the tour ship in, they do it to accommodate the tourist. P: I see. R: Yeah. P: The tourists come up here and. U(I). R: Right, right, right. Yeah. P: I see and what do you think about the difference between that celebration and the carnival as it is now. R: Well, the carnival, I think the difference a lot change. P: G(A). R: It used to be much more attractive than it is now. P: G(A). R: And you know years go by, things change. P: Yeah. R: Yeah. P: U(F). Now it’s just really a beauty pageant, but they have this jamming. This girl was telling me the other day from. She’s from Conaree, and she’s a young woman about twenty, and she said that it was just great, that they danced all night long. R: Right, yeah, yeah. The band jam and so. P: G(A). R: This jam from the pageant. P: Yeah. R: The pageant them over. P: G(A). R: They have the jamming at the grand market. P: G(A). R: And from New Year’s Day. P: Yeah. R: All the bands then. P: Yeah. R: All the troupes. P: Yeah. R: They start parading the street. P: Yeah. R: And after they parade, the band start tromping the road. P: Yeah. R: That’s where people them get off. P: I see, but those troupes used to go around the island. Do you remember that? R: They used to go around the island. P: In your time? R: Yes. P: Do you remember that? R: I remember the troupes used to come all around within. Every time we see them coming out. P: Yes. R: There’s different troupe coming round in every village. P: I see. R: To do the little thing until U(I). P: G(A). R: Come up to real thing up in Basseterre. P: OK. That’s great. Now, we talked pretty much about the sugar. Do you know anything about the processing of sugar in the factory? Have you ever seen that done? The processing. R: The prices? P: No, no, what they do. The work. R: The work. P: The work in the factory, how do they process the U(I). R: Well, going to school, I go up there and see (a)bout it, but I don’t know if they change up now. P: Yeah. R: (B)ecause they left one section. P: U(G).. R: They start running on a part and go through. P: G(A). R: What you call another machine before it go into the grinder. P: I see. R: And after this done clean the trash then.. P: Yeah. R: The cane will slide through the trapper. P: G(A). Yeah. R: And from the trapper, they over to the grinder. P: G(A). R: Where they going to grind and then they going over in the boiler. P: That’s when they get the magasse out. R: Right, right. Then all the husks from here now. P: G(A). R: Will be coming back. P: I see. R: And then the juice [0] now over in the boiler. P: I see. R: The separation of the molasses and U(H). P: I see. Yeah R: U(H). The sugar juice.. P: Right. Have you ever seen, ever been to any of these distilleries on the island, like the Belmont estates. R: No, no. P: You don’t know how. R: I go around. P: G(A). R: But not ever see. P: Is that up around St. Paul’s? R: Yeah, Belmont’s. P: Belmont is up near St. Paul’s. R: Yeah. P: Yeah, yeah. OK. U(F). Did you weed cane? R: Yeah, yeah. P: Tell me about the kinds of weeds you went after there. R: Well, in the cane fields. P: Yeah. R: They have different weed are like these bush here. P: What are they called? Do you know the names of them? R: You see those? P: Yeah. R: Those they call Tom telegrass. P: G(A). R: You find them inside the cane. P: G(A). R: You find what they call the guinea grass. P: Yes. R: And you still will find one they call shame lady. P: Shame lady. R: So they some kind of different sugar pepper bush and some different weed find in there. P: G(A). R: So those the ones that have to weed out to keep the cane clean. P: G(A). Yeah. R: So that when they start to grow, they can grow that powerful. P: G(A). R: Otherwise those bush will just back them. P: Some of those grow right down into the roots, don’t they? R: They grow right down in here, yeah. P: Weed them. R: Yeah, you have to get rid of them at the earliest. P: Yeah. R: Because at the end of the crop the tractor go around get the field harrow up and things. P: G(A). R: So them as well, G(Q)? P: Yeah. OK. What kind of trees are there on St. Kitts? R: We have several. P: Especially the ones you have here on the island. R: Called like the mangos tree. P: G(A). R: The orange trees. P: G(A). R: You find the breadfruit tree. P: G(A). R: You see the coconut tree. Kidney tree U(I).. P: OK, which is the breadfruit tree? R: See the one by the house here. That’s a breadfruit tree. P: That up there? R: Yeah. You see the one there with a round thing on it? P: Let’s see. R: You could see. P: You don’t mean that tree right there? T: Yeah, the green , the one right up, P: The tall one. R: Not the tall one. P: The one in front of the tall one, OK. R: That’s a breadfruit tree. P: I see. R: We call we call it now, the right name of it, they call it canaan [?] P: G(A). All right. R: It is breadfruit as well. P: You’re right. I’m telling you, I never tasted breadfruit in my life until this week. R: Oh. 627 P: Do you know Merchie? R: Yeah, yeah. P: You know Merchie? R: From Christ Church. P: No, Merchie from Five Point, Five ways. R: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. P: A little guy.. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. P: Well, Merchie had me over to his house for dinner and he had breadfruit, and it was great. It tastes like potatoes. R: Ah, sweet fruit. P: Yeah. R: Sweet fruit. P: Yeah, very nice. How about that, it’s more a bush than a tree, but it has that lovely reddish flowers on it. R: Oh, flamboyant tree. P: Yeah. Did you ever call it anything else? R: Cock and hen. P: Cock and hen. Did you ever call it poinciana? R: Poinciana? No, no, no, no. P: Great. But your main term flamboyant is U(I). R: Flamboyant. P: Is the main word for it? R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. P: OK. That’s great. U(F). Do you know a kind of a jumbie bush or. R: Well, they call it jumbie bead. P: Yeah, jumbie bead, that’s what it is. Is that a bush? R: Yeah, a bush that grow with a red and black bead on it. P: Do you do anything with those beads? R: Some people does take them and make, they will make chain. P: You don’t eat them? R: No. Some people take them, see, put them on the lamp. P: GA). R: I don’t know what that is really for. P: G(A). R: But I see them inside there. P: I see. OK, Now I’d like to ask you about birds and things. What kinds of birds are there around here? R: They have, like they have the pigeon. P: G(A). R: The mountain pigeon. We have the mountain dove. P: G(A). R: We have the partridge dove. P: G(A). R: We have what we call chee-chee bird. P: What’s that? R: It’s small, brown bird. P: G(A). R: Like one you hear bawling just now. P: G(A). R: The other kind they call it the yellow breast. P: G(A). R: Them kind of small bird. P: G(A). R: You have the ground owl. P: G(A). R: Have one that still whistle all through the week. P: G(A). R:Have one that whistle call pi-yoo. P: G(A). R: Another one, that very seriously again, call it cock-up. P: G(A). R: Different kinds. P: G(A). That’s wonderful. R: That we have around. P: How about those white birds that get up on the backs of animals. R: Well, those are call, the same thing we see them, call them white birds. P: White birds. R: Yeah. P: You don’t call them egrets? R: No, we call them the white birds. P: White birds, OK. Now, you told me about some of the fish you caught. U(F) Try to give me a larger inventory of fish. R: A larger one. P: Yes, a list of fish. R: Well, you’ll find I think a larger, I think it’s a hammerhead shark. P: Did you ever see one? R: Maybe about twenty something feet or so. P: Where did you it? R: Down in the seine water. P: It was still swimming around. R: Swimming around. Yeah. P: You could see. R: Down some. P: Oh, boy. R: We went to look. P: G(A). R: Yeah. P: Were you diving? R: Yeah. P: You were diving where there were hammerhead sharks U(L).? R: Yeah. P: Man! R: But one, he was way ahead us. P: G(A). R: So when we see, we come out of the water. P: Yeah. Do you ever find anything when you’re diving for relics? Do you find some of those old shipwrecks? R: No, no, What really happen. Things we find, things knock off of boats. P: G(A). R: Like oar and those kind of thing. P: Yeah. R: But never find. P: Treasures. R: No. P: All those supposed to be in Frigate Bay. R: Yes, yes, there was. P: Yeah. R: But you have to go far out in the ocean. P: Yeah, that’s pretty dangerous. R: Yeah, yeah. P: How about some other kinds of fish? Some other kinds of food fish? R: Food? P: How about the little ones? R: Well, the little fish? P: Yes. R: We call them, fish then? P: Yeah. R: Like the doctor and the Welshman. P: Sprat? R: Well, the sprat now is a small one, a small type. P: G(A). You wouldn’t call a sprat a pot fish? R: No. P: What would you call a pot fish? Those two you mentioned? R: G(A). The doctor fish and the thumb. P: G(A). R: The Welshman. P: G(A). R: The different type, small fish. P: Smaller than the sprat? R: No, much bigger, much bigger. P: How about the ballyhoo? R: Ballyhoo. Them is again, the ballyhoo similar to the sprat. P: G(A). R: The ballyhoo’s is something like a gar. P: G(A). R: But the gar is longer and bigger. P: G(A). R: The ballyhoo something that you don’t try to catch outright. P: G(A). R: Just like when we trying to catch the sprats trying to catch the ballyhoos. They just about this size. P: G(A). I see. What’s a blue parrot fish? R: A blue parrot, well, a blue parrot fish similar to, is in the family of craty parrot. [?] P: OK. What else is in that family? R: I think the manygoo are something alike. P: How do you spell that craty? R: Well, C-RA-T-Y P: Parrot. R: Yeah P: Craty parrot. R: Yeah. P: And, so, what do they taste like? Taste like grouper? R: No, taste like, let me see what fish I could tell you of. Did you ever taste any fish that they call goatfish? P: No. R: You never eat goatfish? P: No. That’s what a blue parrot tastes like? R: Yeah. You can just take them. P: Yeah. R: And just pull out the bone. P: G(A). R: And you can make pot-ty [?] with. P: G(A). It’s a nice fish. R: Yes. P: A nice fish. Is it as good a fish as red snapper and grouper? R: Well, the red snapper is just a little thicker than them. P: I see. R: But it’s as good as. P: It’s the same. R: The same. P: G(A). R: Eat both them. P: Great, great. R: Snapper isn’t small. P: It doesn’t have a strong aftertaste to it. R: No, no. no, no. P: Because that’s what I like in those. R: No, don’t have strong aftertaste. P: Now how about some of the animals on the island. R: Well, the animals in this country… P: OK. R: You starting with the cattle down to the goats. P: All right. R: The pig that we call hog. P: G(A). OK. Now what’s the first one you said? R: The cattle. P: OK. The cattle, the cows and all that. R: yes. P: What kind of cattle do they have? R: Well, they have different breed . We have the zebra breed. Now they bringing in some Red Poll. P: G(A). R: They have different breed that they have, yeah.. P: I see. R: Now they have the donkeys. P: Yeah. R:And the horses. P: Yeah. R: They different things are plenty dogs also. P: G(A). What about the wild animals? R:. Wild animals? We don’t find them much here? P: G(A). R: Only the pigs and the goats. P: How about monkeys? R: Monkeys P: You have monkeys around here? R: Monkeys right here. Monkey right in the village here. P: Is that right? U(L). R: Just down the road. P Yeah. R: See them down the bay. P: Walking around, G(Q)? R: Yeah. P: And how about mongoose? R: Mongoose, there a couple of them. END OF SIDE A P: Yeah, just any kind. R: We have like (i)guanas then. P: Yeah. R: We have just one type of lizard. P: G(A), R: I’m not really familiar with the name of them, but we call them just lizard. P: G(A). R: But there’s some green lizard. P: G(A). R: Now and then you see them turn brown. P: Is that right? R: Yes P: There just about this big, a few inches long? R: Some of them. P: G(A). R: Some of them. P: But not really big ones. R: yeah. P: Now he last thing I want to ask you about are the storms. Can you tell be about, when is hurricane season? R: Well, the hurricane season start in September. P: G(A). R: And it run right down to December. P: G(A). R: Some time it finishing in October. P: Sometimes get them in December. R: Right. P: OK. What’s the worst hurricane you remember? R: Well, I remember these, one, two three Hugo, Louie and Georges. P: Yeah. R: And I go through all of them. P: G(A). R: I say Georges was the worst. P: Is that right. But where were you at the time? R: Where was I? Right in the house. P: Stayed in the house. R: Right in the house. P: Did it really rip things up around here? R: Yeah, it rip up the roof. P: Rip up the roof. Ripped the roof of your house off? R: Yeah, yeah. P: No kidding? Yeah, that is a new roof, isn’t it? R: Yeah. P: Did you put it on? R: Well, me and my family. Did. P: U(L) Nice to be. R: After the hurricane. P: Nice to be a skilled worker. R: Right. P: Yeah, that’s great. And Lenny is the one that came up on the other side. R: Yeah. P: Somebody told me last time I was here that Lennie was a girly man. R: U(L). P: Because Lenny came from the back. R:L From the backway, yeah. P: That’s good. Well, that’s really it. The last thing I want you do is this. I want you to count from one to fourteen. R: One to fourteen. P: Yes. R: One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. P: OK, and then the number after nineteen. R: Twenty. P: The number after thirty-nine R: Forty, P: The number after sixty-nine. R: Seventy. P: The number after ninety-nine. R: One hundred. P: The number after nine hundred and ninety-nine. R: Thousand. P: Now I want you to count with the other kind of numbers. First, second, you know, instead of counting one, two, you go first, second, third. R: First, second, third, another one? P: Right, right. Go up to ten. R: So you say one, three. P: You start first, second, third up to ten. R: First, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth. P: That’s it. Now the last thing, the last two things I want to ask you. First, just the days of the week. R: Days of the week. P: G(A). R: That is Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, to Sunday.. P: Right and the months of the year. R: Months of the year. P: Yeah. R: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. P: That’s great. We’re done. But what I want to do here is get that pen out here, the spelling of your name. In here. OK. Your first name is Thomas, right? P: Yes. And your last name? R: X-X-X. P: Oh, XXX, OK. R: Yeah. P: Like XXX’s Village. R: U(L). P: Tabernacle. And this is just regular Tabernacle,. R: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. P: That’s terrific. END OF INTERVIEW . 73