22. 1/1003 Middle Island Beulah XXX F 42 POB: L. Ed.12 years Occ: shopkeeper, caterer YA: short trips to islands /1 month in Bronx/many short trips to Puerto Rico for shopping for materials USA Ancestry: L. unmarried. Interview: 10 January, 2003 Initial Transcript: 17 August, 2003 Middle Island, St. Kitts Lee XXX: (P: prompter) Beauleah XXX (R: primary respondent) Jovani (S: secondary speaker) G(A): Grunt, affirmation G(N): Grunt, negation G(Q): Grunt, question, (Is that right?(; (You don(t say( G(V) Grunt, seeking verification. (Say what?( U(C): Utterance, cough U(F): Utterance, false start U(H): Utterance, hesitation U(I): Utterance, interruption U(L): Utterance, laughter U(M) Utterance muffled, inaudible. U(S) Utterance of surprise ( ) Deleted phoneme, word, or phrase P: G(A). R: Middle Island. P: G(A). R: B-E-A-U-L-E-A-H P: And the last name XXX. P: Spell it. R: XXX P: And the community. R: Middle Island. P: Middle Island, OK, where were you born? R: Middle Island. P: Middle Island. R: St. Kitts. P: How old are you? R: Forty-two. P: Forty-two. OK. Tell me, what(s your, do you have an occupation? Work? R: Yes, I was train at the hotel, St. Kitts Technical College, P: G(A). So you work. R: Self-employed. P: I see. What are you doing now.. R: Selling the shop, shopkeeper. P: Oh, shopkeeper, right out here, right. R: G(A). P: I see. How long you been doing that? R: About fifteen years. P: All right. R: I was born mother with the shop. P: Oh, is that right. R: G(A). P: So it(s in your family G(Q)? R: G(A). P: In the family, that(s great. U(F). Where did you go to school? R: Verchild(s P: G(A). R: And then I went to the St. Kitts. Technical College for hotel trades.. P: OK. Tell me about the relationship of Middle Island to Vergil(s R: Verchild(s? P: Verchild(s, yes. R: Is just. P: The next town over. R: Village. P: And what(s the next village after R: Lambert(s P: And that(s R: Godwin(s P: All right. But it( all very close to Old Roads, right. R: Old Road.. P: Old Road, right, R: Next to Verchild(s is Old Road P: I got you. OK, that(s good. Tell me about that industrial college you went to. Tell me how long you went there and what you did. R: Hotel trades. P: G(A). How did they train you. R: You set tables. P: Yeah. R: To cook. P: G(A). R: To clean. P: G(A). R: And different things. P: Cooking, so you(re a pretty good cook? R: G(A). P: I want to talk to you about that later. R: G(A). P: That(s wonderful. Do you have any children? R: No. P: No children. R: No. P: Are you married? R: No. P: OK. Now, tell me about your parents. R: Well, my parents was born in Verchild(s and Lamberts. P: Is that right, really. R: yes. P: And how about your grandparents? R: They was born in Verchild(s. P: All of them. R: Yes. P: Gee, that(s good. What did your father dom for a living. R: Farming. P: Farm. R: Yes, he had mountain ground. P: Oh, I se. I see. R: Cultivate land. P: G(A). What kind of stuff did he grow? R: Dasheen, potato, vegetable. P: Oh, vegetables. R: Dasheen, potato, cabbage, herbs, tannia, yam. P: Do any of the people around here work in the cane? Is there much cane farming here? R: Yes. My mother used to work in the cane at a young age. P: Is that right. R: G(A) P: OK, have you been off the island much? R: Yeah. I(ve been to Puerto Rico about fourteen times. P:: G(A). U(L). R: I(ve been to St. Thomas three times. P:G(A). R: I(ve been to the US once. P: G(A). R: I(ve bee to Barbados. P: Wow, that(s U(I). R: St. Lucia. P: G(A). R: Dominica .and Tortola. P: Were these all short trips. R: Well, I spent a moth in the US. P: G(A). Where were you in the US. R: New York. P: New York. R: Yes. P: Where in New York? R: Eleven thirty-three. P: Manhattan? R: No, New York itself. P: OK. The Bronx or Brooklyn. R: The Bronx, yes. P: Lot of Kittitians in the Bronx. R: Yes, G(A). P: Yes, that(s why I asked. R: There(s where me mother is now. P: Is that right? She(s U(I). R: Yes. P: I see; that(s interesting. R: G(A). P: Did you like it there? R: Yeah. P: G(A). R: She NB there quite a while. P: G(A). Is that right? That(s good. R: G(A). P: OK, tell me why you went to Puerto Rico fourteen times. R: To shop. P: Oh, I see, to shop. R: The main thing, to shop. P: Getting things for your U(I). R: G(A). Gown call [disyllabic?] And when people come and get married, they send me to do the shopping. P: Oh, I see, like duty free. U(L). R: Yes. P: But not just things for your, for you to sell? R: No, go blocks up ad somebody going to get married they send me to do the shopping. P: Do you go to Nevis a lot. R: Not for us [fass?]. I went last year. P: G(A). R: About October, so. P: Not often? R: Just a visit. P: G(A). What did you do in Tortola? R: Well, you know what to say, you plain stay there, change. P: Oh, the change. I got you. OK. OK. All right. R: G(A). P: Do you like to travel? R: Sometimes, you have to be in the mood. U(L). P: U(L). Tell me about that. Did you notice a big difference in these places. Like when you went to the US, that was probably the most different. R: G(A). P: O any places. R: Different live style. P: Yeah,. in what ways? R: Good food to eat. P: OK. R: Good clothes to wear. P: Yeah. U(G). OK. R: If you was a working person, you get a job that you could U(I). P: Yeah. R: Work.. P: Yeah. Let(s talk about, said you were a good cook. R: G(A). P: Tell me about some of the things, tell me some recipes. R: U(L). P: Really. Give me some recipes. R You got swordfish balls.. P: OK, tell me how you make them. R: Well, you have to boil the swordfish. P: Yeah. R: Soak it. P: Yeah. R: Clean it. P: Yeah. R: Smash it. P: Yeah. R: And mix the different ingredients. P: G(A). R: You have to put egg. P: G(A). R: To hold it P: U(G), right. R: The mixture. Ball it, the you fry it. P: OK. R: In deep fry. P: OK. R: G(A). P: And what would you serve with that? R: Any kind of sauce.. P: G(A). R: You make a paste, a sauce for it. P: G(A). You make a sauce for it. R: G(A). P: What would you put in the sauce? R: Tomato catsup. P: G(A). R: Something like a spaghetti sauce. P: All right, oh, I see, yeah, like meatballs. R: G(A). P: U(F). What kind of side dishes would you have with it. R: Side dishes? P: Yeah, what would you have with it? Would you eat some vegetables with that? R: Probably, just lettuce and tomato. You could have some small johnnycakes. P: G(A). How do you make johnnycakes? R: With flour. P: OK. Tell me about that. R: Flour with the coconut. P: G(A). R: Whatever you want. P: G(A). R: Casaba meat. The coconut, a little sugar. P: G(A). R: A pinch of salt and some cooking oil. P: Do you put sugar U(I). R: A little baking powder too, to soften it. P: I see. But you put coconut in it almost all the time whenever you make johnnycakes with cornbread? R: Most times, we call that coconut johnnuycakes. P: Yeah. Do you make other kinds of cornbread? R: No, only banana bread. P: Banana bread. R: Yeah.. P: Do you put coconut it that? R: No. P: No. R: You put. In banana bread, you put what you desire. P: Yeah. OK. For instance, what kind of things do you put in? R: Like nuts, raisin. P: Yeah. R: Mix, to suit your flavor. P: I got you. OK. How about, do you ever make goat water. [she nods]. Tell me about that. R: You have to get fresh meat. P: G(A). R: Fresh meat give you a better pot. P: G(A). OK. R: U(F). Some people season the meat. P: But I don(t;. I just make sure I buy it with the garlic. P: G(A). R: And the onion and the celery. P: G(A). R: So as I cook the flavor go through. P: G(A). OK. R: And then you put in your U(H) spices. P: How long do you cook it? R: Quarter how, the amount you cook it. P: I see. It depends on the amount. R: The amount you(re cooking. it. P: For hours or not? R: Well, you know, the meat have to boil so if it(s U(I). P: G(A). R: Old meat, it take longer. P: G(A). R: But probably after the meat cook, you could start the business. P: I see. R: Some use gravy browning, but to give it a good flavor U(I) P: G(A). R: I brown the flour. P: I see. R: You brown the flour and you see fit and you mix it with some water. P: G(A). R: And U(I). P: U(F) You just use, do you use goat meat? R: Goat or sheep. P: Goat or sheep. R: Just that. P: No beef. R: No. P: No. R: Beef we cook stew. P: G(A). R: Mutton we cook goat water. P:How do you make, give me your recipe for beef stew. R: Beef stew? P: Yes. R: Well, beef stew you have to season the meat. P: G(A). R: Clean and season. P: How do you season? What do you mean? Would you put on U(I). R: Season your garlic salt, your herbs. P: G(A). You rub that into it? R: Yes. P: G(A). R: Your salt and everything. P: How much water do you put in it? R: It depends upon the U(I); you don(t season it with water. P: No. R: You season it dry. P: G(A). R: But then when you begin to daub it. P: G(A). R: You put the water to contain, to cover the meat. P: Just enough to cover the meat. R: Meat, yeah. P: And then what else do you put in there? R: Well, the carrots. P: G(A). R: Celery, the sweet peppers. P:G(A). R: Onion. P: G(A). R: The saffron. P: Do you ever put breadfruit in beef stew. R: Potatoes P: G(A). R: White potatoes, cube it. P: The reason I asked is because, you know Merchie, he livesU(I). R: Yeah, Five Ways. P: Five Ways, right. Well, Merchie had me over to his house for dinner about two nights ago and he had breadfruit, R: G(A). P: And I had never tasted it before. R: G(A). P: And I was always afraid to eat it; you know, I was afraid somebody would give it to me and I wouldn(t like it. R: G(A). P: But it(s good. R: We eat it; we do breadfruit salad. P: G(A). R: We do breadfruit pie. P: Well, he boiled it; it tasted like potatoes. R: Yes, because it was a good breadfruit. P: G(A). Oh, that(s it. R: Breadfruit carry the different flavor. P: Is that right. I had no idea it tasted like that. I mean, that(s really a U(F),s really nice. R: Yeah, a breadfruit carry a different flavor. P: Yeah. R: A breadfruit should be where water is eat better than a breadfruit where no water is. P: I see. R: That(s why some yellow and some white stay white. P: I see. R: When they cook, some turn yellow and some stay white. P: The ones that stay white are the good ones? R: No. P: Or the yellow ones are the good ones. R: G(A). The yellow ones is that good to do swordfish balls, and do different things.with it. P: Oh, I see . R: You bake it. P: G(A). R: You stuff it down, something like a shepherd pie. P: Oh, yeah. Tell me about a shepherd pie. R: U(L). P: Come, on; you(re good. R: U(L). P: This is great. R: Yes, you have to cook the potatoes, mash them. P: Yeah. R: Make a paste in the bottom. P: G(A). R: And then you have the cook stew, the cook with the meat. P: Yeah. R: With a chicken, meat, could be mutton or beef. P: Yeah. R: And you put that in middle. P: Yeah. R: And then you put that over the paste again. P: Yeah. R: And you sprinkle it with bread crumbs. P: G(A). R: Or cheese. P: G(A). R: You do the mixture with seasoning to flavor it.. P: Do you use a kind of pastry. R: No, the potatoes that you mash. P: The potatoes make the U(I). R: The paste. P: Make the paste. Well tell me about paste. You make a paste out of the potatoes. R: Or the breadfruit. P: OK. What holds it together? Do you U(I).. R: The milk and the egg. P: The milk and the eggs .in there, I see. R: And you make a margarine ? P: But it(s kind of like a pie crust, but it(s made of UI). R: Yes. So when you fish you can slice it. P: Made out of that. I kind of lost you there when you talked about making U(I). R: The shepherd pie? P: Yeah, the shep, we got the crust; we got the paste, pastry. R: Paste. You put the stew meat in the middle. P: Yeah. OK. R: Then you ut the paste again on the top. P: I see. R: You sprinkle a little cheese on it. Bread crumb. P: And that(s. R: You put that in the oven to bake. P: OK. For how long? R: Maybe thirty minutes. P: G(A). R: Because, remember, everything already cook U(I). P: Right. S: So just set it. P: To heat it. R: Yes. P: That(s really what about 350 or you don(t have a U(I). R: To suit because you have, some people may make it richer than somebody does.. P: G(A). R: Because it(s very rich, you cook quick. P: G(A). I see. R: Yes. P: What do you mean by rich? Having a lot of meat in it? B: The butter and the milk and U(I). P: But the stuff in the middle of the shepherd(s pie is just like a stew. R: Yes, the meat. The meat with the carrots and the nice little stuff. P: And all the vegetable. R: Mix it up.. P: OK. I see. What other kinds of things do you like to make? R: Anything. P: Yeah. OK. R: Pumpkin fritters. P: OK. R: And so on, potato pudding. P: Tell me about potato pudding. R: Well I do it different to other people. P: Good. That(s what I want to hear. R: I use pumpkin, carrots, coconut, and the sweet potato. P: G(A). R: I whip those together with a piece of ginger. P: G(A). R: I use, then I get the egg. P: G(A). R: The milk. P: G(A). R: And the sugar. P: G(A). R: And a little flour with a tip of baking powder.. P: I see. R: You put in raisin, nuts, whatever you want. P: Then you bake that? R: Yeah. P: You bake that for just a U(I). R: Maybe a NB hour. P: An hour, well that(s good. Now what about the pumpkin fritters? R: You boil the, some people grate the pumpkin. P: G(A). R: But I boil the pumpkin and then mash it. P: OK. R: And the I add the milk, the egg. P: The whole pumpkin? R: No you buy maybe a pound or two of pumpkin. P: Oh. R:(Ac)cording to how much you(re going to make. P: Yes. R: And you boil the pumpkin, and you peel; you peeel the pumpkin and you boil it. P: Yes. R: And then you mash it. P: Yeah. R: And you add the milk, the sugar, the egg, the essence. P: What(s that. R: Essence. P: The essence. R: Yes. P: Essence of? R: A flavor in a bottle. P: G(A). R: You have the pear, the almond, and the vanilla, flavor in a bottle. P: G(A). R: So you add that, a little cinnamon, flour, and you start frying. P: G(A). R: In cooking oil. P:And you fry them into like. R: You turn and you fry. P: Kind of like hot cakes? R: You could fry up to four and turn them over. P: Like pancakes? R: Yeah. Pancakes, but for pumpkin they call them fritters. P: Fritters, I see. R: For potato, we call them pancakes. P: How do you serve them? Do you just eat them when you fry them or do you put stuff on them. R: Like how we do them, with sugar already. P: OK. R: They could be eaten just like that. P: Right. R: But the pancakes in the box has no sugar, P: Right. R: So that(s why the syrup (u)pon it. P: Oh, syrup on it. R: Yeah, the pancake in the box draw syrup on it. P: So they(re like pancakes. R: So these we made home. You don(t see what there. P: They(re plenty sweet. R: Yeah. P: I understand. OK, well that(s great. Dis you ever make any blood pudding? R: Oh, black pudding. P: Oh, black pudding. Yeah, tell me about it. R: Well, you have to get the blood. P: Yeah. R: Comes from the belly of the animal. P: Yeah. R: You cook the rice. You don(t salt (be)cause the blood already salt. P: G(A). R: The butcher have to salt the blood and they spoil.. P: Yeah. R: So when you cook the rice. P: Yeah. R: You cook it fresh. P: G(A). R: You cook the rice just with garlic, clove, P: G(A). R:Onion, and must have herbs. P: OK. Must have herbs. R: Herbs is what give it the flavor. P: OK. U(L). R: And clove. P: G(A). R: Clove and herbs is what flavor it. P: Right. OK. R: So then you add the blood. P: G(A). R: To the rice with some hot peppers. P: OK. R: See, you cut up your seasoning would be hot peppers.. P: G(A). How much blood do you use, say in a U(I).. R: Well, if you have two stripes. P: Two stripes of intestines. R: Yes. Yes. You could use a cup of blood. P: You call that a tripe or a stripe. R: A stripe, yes. Here call it the belly here. P: Stripe, OK.. All right. So how much blood would you use for two stripes? R: A cup. P: A cup of blood. R: You just mix it (a)round. P: When you go to the butcher, do you buy it by the cup? Or do you have to U(I). R: No. they give you whatever they catch. P: I see. R: When they cut the throat, how much they catch, they get it in a jar. P: I see. R: So maybe a jar like this one, use twice. P: I see. How long will it keep? R: As long as you want it, you put it in your freezer. P: Yeah, right. Sure. U(L). I didn(t think of that. R: Yeah, you put it in your freezer. P: Right. R: So what you don(t use, you take out. P: G(A). R: And you back in. P: Then you stuff the stripes. R: After you mix the blood with rice and every seasoning. P: You cook that first? R: You stuff it.. P: Before you cook it. R: You stuff the belly. P: You don(t cook the stripes before you stuff it. R: No, no, no. The stripes, just so you get them only clean. P: Right, right. OK.. R: So then you cook rice. P: Yeah, R: You in the belly. Put stuff in. P: G(A). R: But what I does NB I put a plate. P: G(A). R: Bottom of the pot. P: G(A). R: So easy to burst (bust). I put a plate to the bottom. P: G(A). R: Of the pot and I put a piece of brown paper on the plate. P: G(A). R: I rest them in the pot. P: G(A). R: And I turn the water on a low fire. P: Is that right. I see. R: G(A). P: Do you ever make a preparation like that with rice and the stripes without the blood? R: No, you can(t it up without the blood.. P: You have to have the blood to make this thing. R: Yeah. P: And how do you serve it? R: By the cuts. P: You cut it. You cut a piece off and ten U(I). R: Yes. P: And is that like a whole meal or do you have to get? R: No, I cut a pudding just like it come along here for three dollars. P: Do you sell that? R: Yeah, when you make. P: Where do you sell it? Do you sell it in your shop here? R: Yes. Because usually on Fridays. P: G(A). R: Saturdays I cook food to sell. P: I see. G(A). R: So sometime I have cook-up, johnnycake and chicken. P: G(A). R: Pudding and different things, P: I see. That(s nice. That(s very nice. R: G(A). P: But you usually make that much. You make about two stripes. R: No. P: You make a lot. R: G(A). Sometime I have an orders. P: Is that right G(A).. R: G(A). P: Well, that(s good, so you get U(I). R: I just get orders to do things like swordfish balls. P: G(A). R: For the Christmas, I had to do swordfish balls, johnnycake, pancake. P: G(A) R: Call up to Sunday, I have to do some currry mutton and some turkey wings. P: G(A). Tell me about curried mutton. Tell me the recipe for curried mutton. R: The recipe for curry mutton? You just boil it add curry to color. P: G(A). R: Just with the carrot with the seasoning and the flavor. P: And the U(I). R: Curry mutton is easy, just you have to look for the curry. P: G(A). R: That make hotel and restaurants use. P: Is that right. R: That is a different curry to the rest. P: And that is U(I). R: And that is the purpose for curry, curry mutton. P: And that you boil, so U(I). R: Yes. P: Is that kind of like a stew? R: Yes. P: You could U(I). R: You got have plenty curry. P: Do you put vegetables in there? R: So when it done cook, next to no water use. P: No water, OK. R: G(A). P:Little water. Do you cook vegetables in there with that? R: Just carrots. P: Just carrots. R: Dice. P You wouldn(t put potatoes in there. R: Probably if you want. P: Yeah. R: It(s what you want to put in. P: G(A) R: You put in the little cubes of carrot and the little cubes of potato. P: Do you like curry? Do you like the curried U(I). R: Yeah. P: OK, R: Up there make some curry bull foot with red peas. P: Yeah, tell me about bull foot. R: U(L). Bull foot is cattle food. P: Yeah. R: G(A). P: And how do you prepare that? R: Well, you just wash it and boil it. P: G(A). R: Wait to stew. P: G(A). Is there any, much meat on that? R: When the bones let go. P: G(A). R: As it start to boil, the bones let go. P: Yeah. R: So when you(re done, you just got the glue. P: OK. R: G(A). P: Now the glue is the stuff you are eating? Or the U(I). R: The glues, the skin and the glues, and the hoof and the U(I). P: OK. Does that come out kind of like a pudding or how? R: No, it cook like a soup. P: Like a soup. R: Yeah. A soup. P: G(A). R: You add anything you want. P: Bull-foot soup, G)Q)? R: Yeah. P: I see. R: Yeah. P: That(s interesting. OK. Let me ask you now, do you remember the kind of games you played when you were a child? R: Rounders. P: Tell me about that. Tell me how you play rounders. R: You turn, you hit the ball. P: G(A). R: Somebody run and pick it up. P: G(A). This is girls play that. R: Girls play rounders. P: G(A). OK. Any other games? R: Lulu, Snake, and Ladder. P: Tell me about that. R: It(s a game they sell in the store. P: G(A). R: You throw the dice. You count. You U(I). P: G(A). Yes. What(s it called? Something and ladders? What and ladders? R: Jovani G(M). [to woman minding the store outside] S: Yes? R: Look on the table and take up some money. S: How much? R: Bring about a bread [a loaf of bread/]. Yeah. P: If you ever have to do something in the middle of this, just go and do it. That(s OK. P: No, it(s perfectly OK. This nothing. The only reason I am doing this; I(m not making a television program; U(L). What I(m doing here is so when I get home I(ll remember what you said. R: Oh. P: I try to keep this. I have to write everything down. R: G(A). P: But that(s OK. That(s no problem at. all. Chutes and Ladders, is that what it was? S: Snake. P: Snake. R: Snake and Ladder. P: Snake and Ladders, OK. And, how about, did you play a game something like basketball? R:No, that(s boys. P: No. I know boys. There(s a girls game that(s U(I). R: Netball. P: Netball. How do you play that? R: Well, you pick a side. P: Yeah. R: And who get the ball throw it in P: U(G). R: The ring. P: I see. R: Three points to your side. P: But no dribbling. You can(t bounce the ball. R: No. P: No. I think that(s the difference. OK. Now I want to ask you a little bit about,do you remember your parents and grandparents talking about jumbies? R: Jumbies? P: Jumbies. What do you know about jumbies? Nothing? R: G(N). P: Never heard of a jumbie? R: Yeah, I hear them speak about jumbie. Like jumbie live there, like a windy night, jumbie would be there. P: But never saw one. R: G(N). P: How about the jack-o-lantern? R: No. P: Did you ever hear of them? Up in the mountains, they light up in the mountains. R: Oh. I guess I hear about it, but I never see that. P: Never see it. OK. Do you ever make or do your remember your mother ever making any kind of tea for colds with herbs and things. R: Maiden apple. P: Tell me about those. R: You pick the bush and you boil the water and throw it on the bush. P: G(A). G(A). And just make U(I). R: That(s it. P: G(A). R: And then the cold. P: G(A). Were there any other roots and herbs that they used that you remember? R: Maidenapple. P: Besides maidenapple. R: Yeah. Lemon grass P: Yeah. R: Maidenapple, horse rubdown, sosa bush. P: Yeah. R: All those. P: G(A). R: You put those in together and you make a tea. P: I see. What(s horse rubdown like? R: Purposely for colds. P: G(A). What does it look like? R: A running of vine with some fine leaves. P: The one that runs along the ground? R: Yes. P: Flat. R: Yeah, some kind. P: Yes, I think I know what that is. Do you go to the carnival often? R: To the? P: Carnival. R:G(M). Nobody go to the carnival. P: Why is that? R: I don(t take part in that. P: OK. Good. Why? R: Nothing. P: Do you remember though what it(s like?. R: Yeah, you have calypso; you have queen shows; a parade of troupes. P: Yeah. R: You have different things but. P: You remember U(I). R: The past three years I haven(t gone. P: Is that right. Is it changed/ R: It change. P: U(L). How has it changed? R: No money( it(s tight. P: No money? I don(t know what you mean. R: The economy tight. P: Oh, the economy. R: Yeah. P: And so the carnival isn(t as good because there isn(t enough money. R: No money there. P: Yeah. I see. Do you remember when they used to have the sports. R: Yes. P: Tell me about that. R: The clown, P: Yeah. R: The masquerade. P: Yeah. R: The mummies. P: G(A). R: The bulls. P: Yeah. R: And they had some, the local ones, they call the nigger business. P: Yeah. What was that? R: Like, if anything happen during the year, a group of fellows talk it over at Christmas. P: Right. R: Make jokes about it. P: Oh, I se, so that nigger business was really about something that happened.. R: About personal. P: About personal things. R: Personal things. P: In the village someplace. U(L). I see. And they talk about it. R: G(A). P: But it wasn(t with children? R: No, grownups. P: Oh, grownups did that; I see. R: Yes. P: Do you remember the mackajumbie? R: Yes. P: What was that? R: People dancing on some sticks. P: Long sticks, I see. Stilts like. SR: Yeah. P: OK. Do you remember, did they sed to come down the road here? R: Yeah, They dance and you go down and want them. You stop them. P: G(A). R: They play for you, and you pay them P: Oh, I see. I see. And then the things like the Bible things they did, like David and Goliath R: G(A). The mummies. P: The mummies did that? R: G(A). P: What did the mummies do? R: Well, they quote scripture. P: G(A). R: They hit stick and hit stick, and then they dance. P: G(A). R: And they run the children. P: G(A). Up until about three years ago, though, did you like them? Was the carnival interesting? Was it good? R: Five years are back. P: Five years back. It was good then? R: G(A), P: You found that. R: Everything change. P: Yeah, well, what do you think of XXX? Did you like XXX? R: U(L). I don(t know much of him. P: No, the reason I ask is he put a stop to the old sports style. R: Yes. P: And I wonder what you thought about that. R: Well, up to that time, they had the old sports. P: Yeah R: Up to when Mr. Bradshaw die U(I). P: Yeah. R: They have real sports. P: Yeah, and then they turned it into this beauty pageant and dancing. R: G(A). Yeah. P: That(s all. R: Because they put Christmas and carnival. P: Right. So it became like a Christmas and New Year(s pageant. R: Yeah. P: G(A). R: Christmas should a by itself and carnival by itself P: Yeah. R: Then it be close. P: G(A). R: Because the carnival culture. P: I see. Tell me how. R: Because they have the shows. P: Yeah. R: So nobody studying the sports. P: Nobody(s studying the sports; they(re just going in U(I). R: The carnival. P: To be entertained. Yeah. R: Yeah. P: Just being entertained, I see. I see. OK. It(s coming along Ok [checking the machine]. Did you ever participate in the carnival? Did you? R When I was going to school. P: OK. Tell me about that. R: Each year, the school put in a troupe. P: Yeah. R: I was in the school troupe. P: G(A). R: And not again. P: OK. And what did your troupe do? R: Dance on stage. P: Did you practice in school before you performed? R: Yes. You have to practice in school before you go to the carnival city. P: For how long did you practice? R: For weeks. P: Is that right? U(F). Did you have any brothers and sisters? R: Yeah, U(F) two sisters. P: G(A). R: A pastor. P: G(A). R: My sister is a pastor. P: Where? R: For the Faith Tabernacle Church out there. P: Is that right. R: Yes. P: That(s wonderful. R: And I have some brothers living in the states. P:: How many? R: Three or four. P: Three or four. U(L) You(re not sure how many? R: G(Q)? P: You(re not sure how many? R: Mort [?], Gene[?], Erik, Osmond, four P: Amd where do they live? They all live in New York? R: The Bronx. P: They all live in the Bronx. R: G(A). P: OK. When they were growing up, did you U(I). R: They play clown. P: Oh, you remember that. R: They played clown. P: They played clowns in the U(I). R: And my father was the head of the clown.. P: Oh, is that right? R: So he used to dress in all white. P: Is that right. U(G). R: yes. P: Tell me about that, what that involved. R: Some suppose to dance around and they U(I). P: Yeah. OK. But how did he become the head clown, your father?. R: Because he formed the group. P: Oh, I see. R: Yes, he was the head for (a)bout thirty years. P: Oh, I see. R: Just a minute [goes to pick up plaque given her father]. P: Oh, thank you, let me read this now: (In recognition of Mr. James XXX.( that XXX, (for his sterling contributions to the folk arts of St. Kitts,( that(s beautiful. ( Presented by( that(s great. This is terrific. (Intregemtine Arts Theatre.( R: He taught those. P: I see. That(s wonderful; you should be proud of that. That(s very nice. R: G(A). P: That is just great. Did he do other things? R: He used to go to the schools to teach the children to dance. P: Oh, yeah The folk dance. R: He was a folklore man. P: A folklorist. That(s great. R: G(A). P: Did he just do this on his own, or was he hired. R: He was hired after a while. P: Yeah. R: He was doing it on his own, but as he got up in age he was unable to go to the mountain, so they pay. P: Oh, that(s great. U(G). R: Not this government; the government before. Simons government. P: Simons, yeah, yeah. That was the first prime minister, right. R: Yeah. P: That was right after independence. R: Yeah. P: And he did that, I see, he did that about the eighties? Nineteen eighties? R: Come down through; he died ninety-four. P: I see. He did it for about fifteen years then? R: G(A). P: Did he do any other kinds of thinks. Could you tell me about?. R: He was the big man in the church. P: G(A). R: The church warden and some, the Anglican Church. P: I see. R: Up here. P: St. Thomas. R: Yeah. P: I just took a picture of that. R: Yeah. P: That(s really interesting. Do you go there? R: No. I go that way. P: G(A). R: I go on Faith Tabernacle. P: You go to your sister(s church. R: Yeah. P: Keep it in the family, G(Q)? R: G(A). P: But that church is really U(I). R: He always went St. Thomas, where he was buried. P: Is that right. R: G(A). P: And they(re now in te process of trying to restore tat, aren(t they? R: It(s open on Monday. P: It(s open. R: The opening service on Monday. P: I see. R: It(s finished. P: It(s finished? R: So just the tower now have to finish. P: I see. That(s a wonderful landmark. R: It too them thirty years to get it done. P: Is that right? R: Yeah. P: No kidding. Yeah. Why did it take so long? R: Because they never using their head. P: U(L). They didn(t have a plan, G(Q). R: No. There(s a minister came here just a year and a half and get it done. P: Is that right? R: And those was here for ten and twelve years did nothing. P:: Is that right. On minister U(I). R: You know anybody could do. P: Yeah, right.. R: G(A). P: If everybody has his own ideas, too many U(I). R: Yes. P: Go in all different directions. I can understand that. That(s terrible. U(F). Tell me about the Tabernacle, the Faith Tabernacle. R: The church out there. P: Yeah, tell me how that differs, say, from the Anglican.Church. R: Well, we sing hard. P: Yeah. R: We clap, we dance, we jump, we skip, we run. P: G(A). G(A). R: Here, now, you sit down sanctimonious. P: U(L). R: And lives no life. P: That(s good. I got you; I got you; I understand. U(F). Could you tell me, could you kind of describe, I don(t mean describe U(I). R: Well, there . P: Or either there or your church, either church.. R: Listen, there, you(re a <(jin.kyura> man, you go to church. P: G(A). R: There you can(t do that and go to church. P: I see. R: You can(t transgress mostly. P: I see. R: But there you do as you like. P: I see. R: You see? P: Yeah. R: The difference. P: G(A). R: There, but there you have to be under control. P: I see. U(L). But there you can confess your sins and be excused, excused for your sins R: Yes, yes. P: Yeah. But how about the service? How about the church service at yours. R: You be here for Sunday? P: No, I(m leaving Sunday. I have to fly out at nine AM. Nine AM Sunday. R: Oh, P: But, Merchie(s taking, me to the airport. R: Oh. P: But I(m U(I). R: Merchie, he has three or four children by a sister of mine. P: Is that right. R: G(A). P: No kidding. Is that right? R: Yeah, yeah. When you go just ask him P: OK. I will and that(s XXX? R: Yeah, XXX daughter. P: G(A). And that(s the minister he has the children by? R: No, outside sister. P: Oh, your other sister. Tell me what the service is like. R: There? P: Yeah. R: We praise. P: Yeah. R: Worship. P: Right. R:Read our Bible. P: Right. R: Get the sermon, fellowship. P: OK, OK. So it(s really the same kind of procedure as the Anglican Church. R: Yes. P: Except you(re more U(I). R: Liberal. P: OK. Tell me about the fellowship. R: You find a brother have something. P: G(A). R: How they keep him. P: G(A). R: What he don(t have and you have it, you(re suppose to give. P: G(A). And you talk to each other. R: Yeah. P: Yeah. R: Greeting. P: Take time out to greet one another in the service. R: G(A). P: That(s great, How about the songs you sing. U(F). Could you name a few titles; I don(t want you to sing songs. You could if you want to. But if you want to tell me the names of some of the things you sing. R: Yeah. (I Know My Redeemer Lives.( P: G(A). R: And so on. ((Be)fore Your Done, Lord,( P: G(A). U(F). You don(t sing them like calypso or anything? R: You sing them anyhow you want. P: Anyhow you want. U(L). R: You can sing or dance or U(I). P: U(L). You can dance, OK. Jump and jam, G(Q)? R: G(A). P:OK. Well, that(s great. That(s very nice. Now I wanted to ask you. You(ve never worked in the sugar. Do you know anything about the sugar.? OK. R: I work at Caribee, fifteen years. P: G(A). R: But it got burned down. P: Carib what, now? R: Carib Batik P: Oh, when did it burn down? R: G(Q)? P: When did it burn down? R: Ninety-Five. It burned in Nineteen Ninety-Five. P: There(s another batik, isn(t here? R: Yeah. P: I was U(I). R: Just a little amount work now. P: Yeah. R: The big one get burned down. P: Oh, really. Yeah. That was also up there on the Romney Plantation.? R: G(A). I work there for sixteen years. P: What did you do? Make batik? R: Dye. P: Tell me about that. Tell me about that work. R: The dying? P: Yes. R: You get the U(H) dye. Dye(s a powder. P: G(A). R: You mix that with water, throw into salt water. P: G(A). R: And then you put something that you call the fixer that U(I). P: G(A). R: To hold the color. P: To hold the color R: If you don(t put in the fixer, the color NB it won(t go in. P: I see. How do you get those designs though? R: U(F) A NB artist draw them. P; G(A). R: And you trace it on to a white piece of cloth. P: Oh, I see. R: G(A). P: And then you trace it on the white piece of cloth. R: The cloth. P: And that(s U(I). R: Then you get it waxed. P: OK. R: Wax come from England. P: All right. R: Sometime we use bee(s wax. Sometime we melt candles. P: G(A). R: And we trace the pattern. P: OK. And then you. R: Dye it. P: You dye it. R: Then you give it another color. P: G(A). R: You wax where you want to stay that color again. P: G(A). R: And then give it another color. P: I see. R: G(A). P: And then what do you do? R: You put it in a pot of water to boil. P: G(A). R: To get out the wax. P: You boil it OK. R: To get out the salt. P: OK. R: And then it come back to a cloth like this.. P: G(A). R: It come back to a cloth, but it have pattern and color. P: I see. And then you have to hang. R: It made. P: Hang it up to dry. R: Yes. And the you get it. P: How long does that process take? I mean to go from a plain piece of white cloth to a finished batik U(I). R: About three, four days. P: Three or four days. U(F). Did you have to let it U(I). R: You dye today. P: G(A). R: To get a color. P: G(A). R: You wax it. You dye again. You boil it out. P: G(A). R: Make it the next day. P: So you have dry it. R: G(A). P: You do the dying yourself. R: Yeah. P: So you have to go through two dying processes. I see. How old were you when you started working at the batik. R: Twenty. P: Twenty. R: G(A). P: And so you worked there until you were how old, about thirty- U(I). R: Thirty-six. P: Thirty-six and you had to find a new U(I). R: Sixteen years. P: You had to find a new line of work. Is that when you decided to the hotel college? R: No. That time NB done went to the college. P: Oh. R: Went to the college in Seventy-Nine. P: I see. I see, while you were working there. R: No, as I leave school, I went to the college. P: I see. R: And then as I leave the college, I get the job, P: I see. R: For the batik. P: I see. R: (Be)cause that time it wasn(t much hotels here. P: No. I see. U(F) Did you do anything else at the batik? R: Sure. Trace. P: G(A). R: Trace the design. P: G(A). R: Yes.. P: And that(s when U(I). R: You trace the pattern on the white cloth. P: G(A). R: You put the cloth on; you put the pattern or design onto the cloth like this. P: Yes. R: And it show through like this. Just trace it. P: I see. R: Yeah. P: I see and then. R: You carry it and you get it wax. P: You trace it first, and then you wax it. R: Yes. P: And then U(I). R: You dye. P: I see with wax. R: You cover the tracing with wax. P: That(s with the bee(s wax. R: yeah. P: Or candle wax and then you dye it. R: G(A). P: Then you dye it, and then you have to dye it rt twice though? R: To get how much colors you want. P: G(A). You have to dye it once for each. R: You want three colors you dye three times. P: G(A). But how do you keep the colors separated . R: You put the wax over each color you want to keep. P: Oh, I see. R: So that part is blue and I going to dye it green. P: G(A). R: I put the wax over what I want to stay blue. P: I see. Oh, I see, yeah. R: G(A). P: Do yo know where the word batik comes from? R: G(N). P: You have no idea where that comes from? [Malay/Javanese: tattoo]. R: That word come from Indonesia. P: Oh. I see. R: Where they get the material and thing, Indonesia. P: Oh, that(s interesting. I didn(t know that. R: G(A). P: U(F). Were you here when it burned down? R: Yeah.. P: What happened? R: I was here the night. It was a Saturday night. P: How did it happen? Nobody knows. R: Nobody knows. P: Somebody let something.U(I). R: Maybe left a coal. P: OK, but it just burned the whole place up and so then you had to find some other U(I).. What did you do then? R: Well, that happened in the October. P: G(A). R: And then the bossman, he got a meet with the government. P: G(A). R: And said things was not going good as before. P: G(A). R: They can(t keep the amount of people employed. P: G(A). R: So he made you redundant. P: Redundant, G(Q)? R: So you had to get another job, yeah. That mean we had no work there. P: Yeah. So then you ent to work. R: G(A). P: With your shop. G(A). P: Well, what was nice that you had that though. R: G(A). P: To fall back on. R: G(A). P: Because that must have been a terrible blow to a lot of people. R: Yes. P:When you(re suddenly, you know, your work(s taken away from you like that. Now, tell me about some different kinds of trees and bushes. R: Trees. P: Trees. R: Guava trees and the mango trees. P Yes. R: And apple trees and the sosa trees, yeah. P: How about bushes?. R: Bushes? P: Yeah. R: Well, the plan bushes aint no more for to make medicine. P: G(A). R: Like the guava bush and the strongman bush and so on. P: G(A). Now you mention, how about that bush that lowers, it has beautiful flowers on it twice a year. R: Flamboyant. P: Yes. Did you ever call it. Go ahead/ R: Cock and hen. P: Yes. You call it that too. R: Yes, yes. With the large branches. P: Right. R: And the branch have the shock on it. P: Yes, that(s what meant. OK. Now could you tell me about some different kinds of birds. That are. R: You have the parrots. P: Yeah. R: The hummingbird. P: G(A). R: The eagle. P: Yeah. R: The pigeon, the dove, the booby. P: OK U(L). R: The pelican. P: Right. R: Yes. P: Do you know those birds that get up on the backs of animals and pick the ticks off. R: The white birds. P: Called the white birds. R: The germs, they. P: They(re called the white birds. R: Yeah. P: OK. And now could you tell me about the kinds of fish that they U(I). R: You have thumb. P: Yeah. R: Doctor, hind, grunt, covallee, shark, dolphin. P: G(A). R: And so. P: What(s covallee? R: A fish. I just clean one there. P: Yeah. R: It(s grand [?] white. P: Is it big? R: Oh, yes, some big. P: G(A). How about the U(I). R: You have the gar, the ballyhoo, the sprat. P: G(A). Merchie prepared old wife for me. Do you U(I). R: Yes. P: You know that? R: That(s a fish you have to tear off the skin. P: You know that one? R: G(A). P: What do you call it? R: Old wife. P: Yeah, they got a lot of bones, don(t they? R: No. One flat bone. P: One flat bone. R: You just U(I). P: U(L) He left the bone in there. He served it with the bone in it. R: Yeah. P: OK, But it was good, very good. How about the blue parrot? R: That(s a thumb. P: That(s a thumb, GQ)? R: Yes. P: OK. U(F) And are there several kinds of parrot fish? R: You mean to know all those. U(L). P: U(L). Several kinds of parrot fish? R: Thumb. P: Thumb, just thumb fish, OK. Now, how about animals? R: U(M) [to someone in her shop]. P: That(s OK. Talk if you want. The diffeent kinds of animals. Let(s start with wild animals first. R: You mean tiger? We don(t have those. P: No, the kind you have here. R: Wild? P: Yeah. R: Maybe monkey. P: Monkey. Did you ever eat monkey? R: Yeah. P: Tell me about hat. Do you cook monkey? How do you prepare monkey? R: U(L). P: Yeah. R: You have to clean it. P: Yeah. R: You have to skin it like meat. P: Yeah. R: And put it on fire and roast it here. P: G(A). R: And then you cut it up and season it. P: G(A). R: And it just like meat. P: Is it pretty good?. R: Sweet, nice. P: It(s sweet, G(Q)? R: Yes. P: Do you like monkey better than goat or lamb? R: Yeah. P: Is that right? R: Goat. P: What about those things that crawl around on the ground? R: Guana, lizard. P: Yeah. R:We don(t have guana here, just lizard. P: Yes. R: Guanas in St. Thomas. P: Oh, really. R: Yes. P: But you have mongoose. R: Mongoose. P: Yeah, do you se many of them? R: Mongoose, them here, kill out the snakes. P: Yeah. R: The snakes around, mongoose. P: Do you see mongoose pretty often. R: Yeah, lot of, across the road here. P: I just want to go back to the fish for a minute. Were there any other kinds of fish that you you didn(t mention that you cook? That you prepare. R: G)Q)? P: Any other kinds of fish that you cook that we didn(t mention yet? Any other kinds of fish. R: Fish? P: Yeah. R: You got all kind of fish, have doctor fish. P: Yeah. How about grouper? R: Grouper is a big fish now. P: How big is grouper. R: Bout this, head big like mine. P: No kidding. R: And they come out; they(re sweet. P: They(re good. R: They(re nice. P: Yeah grouper(s good. R: Good fish. P: Red snapper. R: Yeah. P: Red snapper too. You know those? R: We have red snapper too. P: All right. Now I want to ask you, I want you to tell me a little bit, we(re almost finished, but I wanted you to tell me about, when(s the hurricane season? R: We just have hurricane, the real hurricanes come in September, October, and November. P: G(A). Right. R: But three months before that. P: G(A). R: So we have hurricane season for a bout six months. P: I see. R: yeah. P: Starting maybe in July? R: July go down [=July forward?] P: And you had some pretty bad storms in July. R: No, September. P. September. OK I got you. R: After September pass, you U(I). P: Right. What(s the worst hurricane you remember? R: We had one named Hugo. P: OK. R: Nineteen-Eighty-Nine P: All right. R: And then we had one named Georges, Ninety-Eight. P: G(A). Which was worse. R: Well, I can(t tell you. Georges was terrible. P: G(A). R: It tear apart much these houses. P: Is that right. R: Even this. P: Is that right. R: Yeah, I had to fix it. P: It(s all new, G(Q)? R: Yeah. P: The whole roof. It tore off your whole roof? R: Yeah. The tim come off and U(I). P: That(s beautiful. The roof is beautiful. I like those eaves, what d you call those? R: Rafters. P: Rafters are beautiful. But you had to put that whole new roof in? R: Partly from lumber and shingle and. P: That(s terrible. Get a tarp up there. R: The government pick out some they going to help, so some helps theirself and the government helps others. P: Is that right. You got to get a tarp up there or you(ll ruin everything inside. You got all this nice stuff. R: Everything get wet. P: Yeah, I(ll bet that(s awful. It must be terrible. How about Lenny? R: Lenny didn(t reach here/ P: Oh, no? R: Only what come off. But Lenny stay at St. Martin. P: So Lenny didn(t hit St. Kitts at all? R: It damaged the seaside. P: This side. R: This coastline. P: It came in this way. R: Yeah, the coast. P: It was strange. R: Yeah, the coastline. P: It was strange because usually the hurricanes come over the mountains. R: Yeah. P: But this time. R: The sea line. It was at St. Martin and he just hit coastline. P: Were you here when that happened. R: Yes. P: That was just a couple of years ago, wasn(t it? R: On Old Road, Old Road Bay. P: G(A). R: Weeks and weeks had to g around to take people to work and things. P: I(ll bet he ghuts really fill up during the hurricanes. R: G(A). P: I(ll bet they do. R: All the water. P: And the water runs fast. G(A)? R: G(A). P: I think in Georges, two people were killed in a car in a ghut. R: Yes. Bloody Point. P: Bloody Point, was that it? R: G(A). And the hurricane had already passed. P: G(A). R: The water smooth and cool. P: Is that right. R: They went the car; the car went over. P: Yes. R: They no find them up to now. P: Is that right, out to sea. R: Yes, one was a teacher and one work somewhere. P: Gee whiz, isn(t that terrible. Really is just awful. I just have one more thing I want to do with you here. Can you think of anything that I didn(t ask you that you want to tell me? Yell me anything about yourself U(L). That I missed.. R: I want to tell you we need a change of government. P: A change of government. Tell me about that. R: It(s terrible. P:Do you like the PAM government? R: That(s right. P: OK. R: They(re better. They are local people. P: You don(t like the labor. R: G(N). P: What(s wrong with Labor. R: They just seeing to theirself and family. P: I see. And that(s what you(re talking about in the repairing of the END OF SIDE R: U)M) I bring it. [to someone in shop] P: You were telling me. R: U(M). P: You were telling me that Merchie was the father of three of your sister(s daughters, so ten you(re Merchie(s children(s aunt, right. R: Yeah. P: Where do they live? R: At home and one in Canada. P: In Canada. R: G(A). P: Is the one in Canada(s name? R: Heather. P: Do you know her husband(s name. R: No she ain(t U(M). P: No, he had some people from Canada; he knows more people from Canada. R: Because he goes there. P: I see. R: G(A). P: I see. That makes sense. Well, I knew he had several children, he(s a busy guy, but. R:U(L). P: U(L). But I didn(t know about the Canadian thing. The ast thing I want you to do is this. It(s very simple. I want you to count. This is just for your pronunciation, rthe way you pronounce words. It(s not a test. I want you to count from one to fourteen. R: One, two, three, four,. five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen. P: OK. Count a little louder, but the number after nineteen. R: Twenty. P: The number after thirty-nine. R: Forty. P: The number after sixty-nine. R: Seventy. P: Number after ninety-nine. R: One hundred. P: And the number after nine hundred and ninety-nine. R: One thousand. P: G(A). Now there(s another way to count, you know, that way we talk about the days of the month we say the like today is the tenth, right? R: Yes. P: Tomorrow will be the eleventh. R: Yes. P: OK, Counting that way will you start at one and go to ten. First. R: First, second, third, fourt, fifth, sixth, sebventh, eighth, ninth, tenth. P:Now would you name the days of the week. R: Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. P: Great. Now the monhs of the year. R: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December. P: OK. We(re finished thank you so much. R: G(A). 1